The 2026 Alternative Oscars, a.k.a. the 6th Annual Big Picks! Plus: The Craziest Awards Season in Years.

Summary

The Big Picture

Episode: The 2026 Alternative Oscars, a.k.a. the 6th Annual Big Picks! Plus: The Craziest Awards Season in Years
Host: Sean Fennessey
Co-hosts: Amanda Dobbins, Wesley Morris
Date: March 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode delivers the sixth annual "Alternative Oscars," a fun, candid, and reflective installment where Sean, Amanda, and Wesley hand out their own movie awards ("The Big Picks") in categories they think should exist, while dishing about the most tumultuous and bizarre awards season in recent memory. The episode also covers the stunning Paramount-Warner Bros. merger and what it means for Hollywood, the pervasive anxiety gripping filmmakers and actors, and Oscar race breakdowns—especially the epic Best Picture standoff between "One Battle After Another" and "Sinners."

The tone is breezy, passionate, and frequently comic, while also tackling the heavy realities of the industry’s current crossroads.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. State of Hollywood: The Paramount–Warner Bros. Merger

[05:00–18:00]

• Industry ‘On Fire’: The hosts analyze the late-breaking news that Paramount and Warner Bros. will merge, with $6 billion in cost-cutting expected, lots of job losses, and consolidation in blockbuster movies and streaming:

  “The industry's kind of on fire…$6 billion in budget cuts expected, which is going to mean the loss of a lot of jobs.” (Sean, 08:09)

• Creative Loss & Cultural Fragmentation: Wesley laments:

  “This feels apocalyptic in ways that… what is one person’s jewel is another person’s excrement, and they can find a way to turn this shit into money, whether it’s an actual gem or it stays shit.” (Wesley, 16:03)

• Loss of Creative Ecosystem:

  “There’s a whole kind of star we don’t get. There is a whole, like, mode of acting that never gets developed...we’re already in the cataclysm.” (Wesley, 23:19)

• Consolidation’s Impact: They discuss the vacuum for midtier/independent studios (e.g., Neon, A24) as legacy studios merge and disappear.

Notable Quote

“These people are fucking with our dreams here...They are fucking with how we develop as a culture, how we come to understand ourselves as a people, what this country ought to or should look like 40 years from now.” (Wesley, 21:17)

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2. Oscars Showdowns: “Sinners” vs. “One Battle After Another”

[36:35–49:00]

• Historic Stat Showdown:
  • “One Battle After Another” has the strongest best film precursor package in Academy history, but “Sinners” has awards (SAG Ensemble, ACE, likely WGA), and no film with that trio has ever lost Best Picture.
• Emotional Pull:

  “Sometimes a movie that makes people feel good just wins...I think Sinners is the movie that people are like, this movie makes me feel good.” (Sean, 41:03)

• Are We Seeing a ‘Viking Funeral’ for an Era?:

  “A lot of people are seeing this news and even this awards season as a kind of Viking funeral...like a send off of an era.” (Sean, 35:46)

• Prospects for PTA: Amanda and Wesley muse that if Paul Thomas Anderson’s “One Battle” can’t win this year, he likely joins the Kubrick/Hitchcock “never won” pantheon.

Notable Quote

“I think that the wonderful thing about these two movies being at the top of the pile is they are speaking to each other...It makes me feel like we’re in the 70s where you would be like, gosh, I don’t even know what to pick.” (Wesley, 44:13–44:29)

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3. Awards Season Surprises: Michael B. Jordan’s Surge

[51:26–65:15]

• Michael B. Jordan’s Unexpected SAG Win: Seen as the best moment of the night, shocking the hosts and guests.

  “Michael B. Jordan winning Best Actor for Sinners, which I would never in a million years have predicted... I think Michael B. Jordan’s gonna win an Oscar.” (Wesley, 63:59–64:07)

• A Ryan Coogler Partnership:

  “He talked about Ryan Coogler in his speech last night in a way that was so not, ‘we’re homies and friends.’ It was, ‘Thank you for seeing what my talent can do.’” (Wesley, 53:36)

• Open Best Actor Race: With Timothée Chalamet and Wagner Moura also in the mix, the award is more unpredictable than ever.

Notable Quote

“There’s a lot of history that comes into these things at some point...my historiometer starts going a little bit nuts.” (Wesley, 64:26)

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4. Alternative Oscars: The 6th Annual Big Picks

[90:51–180:58]

Philosophy & Purpose

• The Big Picks aim to celebrate artistry that traditional Oscars miss, including first-time filmmakers, breakthrough performances, cameos, and stunts–categories the hosts feel should be official.
• Reflection on how the Oscars now mirror ‘critic’ and ‘cinephile’ tastes more than in the past, and how the pool of overlooked films is shrinking as Hollywood's mid-budget strata disappears.

Key Categories, Lively Debates & Memorable Winners

• Best First Feature:
  Winner: Pillion
  “This is a movie that should never have worked, and it is just a marvelous contraption...so, so good.” (Wesley, 109:02)
• Breakthrough Performance:
  Winner: SZA, “One of Them Days”
  “She didn’t need to be this good.” (Wesley, 113:51)
• Best Cameo:
  Winner: Bad Bunny, “Happy Gilmore 2”
• Best Performance by an Animal:
  Winner: The Cat in “Sorry Baby”
• Best Stunts/Action Sequence:
  Winner: Mission Impossible Biplane Finale
• Best Ending:
  Winner: Begonia
• Most Fun Had by an Actor:
  Winner: Rosamund Pike, “Now You See Me, Now You Don’t”
• Glenn Close Memorial “It’s Time” Oscar:
  Winner: Noah Baumbach
• Best Screenplay:
  Winner: Zach Kregger, “Weapons”
• Best Supporting Actress:
  Winner: Tanya Maria, “The Secret Agent”
• Best Supporting Actor:
  Winner: William H. Macy, “Train Dreams”
• Best Actress:
  Winner: Kathleen Chalfont, “Familiar Touch”
• Best Actor:
  Winner: Lee Byung Hun, “No Other Choice”
• Best Director:
  Winner: Kleber Mendonça Filho, “The Secret Agent”
• Best Picture:
  Winner: Weapons

  “Weapons is an absolutely wonderful winner because it’s a movie that would never win Best Picture at the Academy Awards, and that’s why it deserves its love here.” (Sean, 180:44)

Notable Quotes

• “This award show exists exactly to give SZA a prize.” (Sean, 115:03)
• “Best First Feature could do so much more work than what the shorts do.” (Sean, 101:45)
• “You just believe that [SZA and Keke Palmer] have never not known each other.” (Wesley, 114:31)

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5. Award Season Culture, Actor Campaigning, and Industry Anxiety

[30:00–70:00]

• Impact on Working Filmmakers:

  “It’s harder than ever to get stuff made. When you go into those situations with fewer options, it’s harder to make more money...Now, younger filmmakers, it’s fucking hard, man.” (Sean, 30:27)

• Get Used to Nomadland to Eternals Pathways:
  The hosts discuss how even Oscar-winning auteurs are funnelled immediately into franchise IP (“Chloé Zhao makes Eternals”) as the only viable path.
• Hollywood’s Future:

  “Guess what the pipeline is going to look like for non-straight white men to make anything?” (Wesley, 34:07)

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6. The Who’s Who & Fun Asides

Timestamps spread throughout

• Warm reminiscences about past Oscar wins—the surprise of “CODA” [04:34], “Parasite”, and the effect of pandemic/zoom Oscars.
• In-depth fashion critiques from the SAG Awards (“There’s a problem with men’s tailoring.” Leading to a physical comedy bit from Wesley.) [61:10–62:50]
• Harrison Ford’s Lifetime Achievement Award evokes emotion:

  “When Harrison Ford took the stage...I was just locked in by his gravitas.” (Sean, 83:38)
  “Ford is the much better analogy for Michael B. Jordan than what we’re doing. Harrison Ford. He’s Harrison Ford, great star.” (Wesley, 82:39–82:45)

• Fun bits about “best animal actor,” the “unwritten” internal rules of Oscar wins, and Amanda’s campaign for a Best First Feature category [101:45–104:10].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “These people are fucking with our dreams here.” (Wesley, 21:17)
• “Michael B. Jordan’s gonna win an Oscar.” (Wesley, 63:59)
• “You just believe that [SZA and Keke Palmer] have never not known each other.” (Wesley, 114:31)
• “Begonia’s the only winner here...Even if you hate this movie and you aren’t sure, Begonia’s the only winner.” (Wesley, 134:38)
• “There is a whole kind of star we don’t get...the whole mode of acting never gets developed.” (Wesley, 23:19)
• “Best First Feature could do so much more work than what the shorts do.” (Sean, 101:45)

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Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• Hollywood Merger Discussion: [05:00–18:00]
• The Shifting Movie Landscape & Oscar Reflections: [21:17–36:03]
• Best Picture Race—One Battle vs. Sinners: [36:35–49:00, 43:10 for “What if Sinners wins?”]
• SAG Awards, Michael B. Jordan Upset: [51:26–65:15, 53:36 MBJ’s speech]
• Alternative Oscars / Big Picks Begin: [90:51]
• Best First Feature, Why It Matters: [101:45–104:10]
• Best Cameo, Breakthrough Performance Fun: [113:38–116:10]
• Most Fun Had By an Actor Award: [137:54–138:32]
• Best Ending Debate (Begonia, Marty Supreme, Final Destination): [127:48–136:34]
• Closing & Reflections: [180:44–end]

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Final Takeaways

• State of Film Is Precarious: The ongoing trend of mega-mergers and shrinking job/creative opportunities is troubling, with future repercussions for representation, diversity, and the types of films seen in America.
• Oscars Are Both More “Cinephile” and Less Eclectic: The Alternative Oscars were harder to fill this year, as the Oscars themselves have adopted more critic-friendly, global tastes, but the casualties are growing in the mid-budget and indie spaces.
• Big Picks Celebrate The Overlooked and the Fun: The alternate categories call attention to movie magic outside the prestige systems, and serve as an advocacy tool for recognizing new filmmakers, stunts, fun performances, and the films that would never win at the official Oscars.
• 2026 Best Picture Race is Electric: With two historically strong contenders, the result is both unpredictable and the result, whichever way it goes, is likely to spark cultural discourse.

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For full lists of winners, perennial debates, and award show shenanigans, this episode is a must-listen for any cinephile following the crazy ride of the 2026 awards season.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply. I'm Sean Fennessy.

[B]

I'm Amanda Dobbins.

[A]

And this is the Big Picture 8 about the 6th annual Alternative Oscars, aka the Big Picks. That means Wesley Morris is here in the flesh. Hello.

[C]

Hi.

[A]

Thank you for being here.

[B]

All the way from New York.

[C]

I'm all the way in the flesh. It's true.

[A]

We missed you last year. We need you on this episode. Thank God you're here. There's so much to talk about in this episode. It's not just going to be the alternative Oscars. It's going to be.

[C]

I mean, there's just so much stuff.

[A]

We got the awards race.

[C]

We.

[A]

We have the most significant merger in recent Hollywood history. We have a lot of conversation about how people's faces look on television. There's so much, so much coming up here. Yes, it is important.

[B]

And also our own faces. We're not.

[C]

I don't really think about my face.

[B]

You look great.

[C]

Just keep going.

[A]

The SAG Awards happened over the weekend. AKA the Actor Awards, the Producer's Guild Awards.

[C]

I just almost went like this. The what?

[A]

Yes. And we have our own hardware to dole out as well, which we will do.

[C]

So actors now. It just sounds right.

[B]

Does it?

[A]

It does not. Okay, we will talk about it right after this.

[C]

It sounds better than sag.

[A]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by State Farm. Sure, being an expert at movie trivia is impressive. You know what's even more impressive? Being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by saving. When you choose to bundle home and auto with the State Farm personal price plan bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. Okay, before we start, we have a programming note.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

We are entering the realm of live programing on the big picture. We will be doing live episodes of this show on Netflix.

[B]

Yes, we have done them before, but not on Netflix.

[A]

Not on Netflix. As a kickoff, next week, we are doing a live mailbag. It will air live on Netflix April 8th.

[C]

Mailbag is a good way to do it.

[A]

Yes. Noon Pacific, 3pm Eastern.

[B]

Why did you say April? It's March 8th.

[A]

March 8th. Why did I write April? It's March 8th. This is. This is a very specific mailbag. It is in anything but Oscars. Mailbag. No Oscar talk on this mailbag. We've been doing a lot of Oscar talk. The season's been too long. It's actually gotten very interesting recently, and I'm happy about that. But. But no Oscars on this episode.

[C]

I'll submit a question.

[A]

Please do. If you would like to submit a question to reach us, you can email [e-mail]. what is that? Email.

[B]

Big pick Mailbag. But do it this way. Bigpickmailbagmail.com.

[A]

yes, we also will be.

[C]

It's like 1947, and this new device called television has just been invented. And we have our pitch woman for Ivory. Ivory detergent.

[A]

This is Ivory, not ebony detergent.

[C]

Just for the record, Ebony detergent is a whole other thing.

[A]

We're also going to be going live after the Academy Awards. Many people who listen to this show or watch this show have been asking us to do this for years and years, and we are finally going to do it, I think, really, for the first time in big picture history.

[B]

No, we were live for Parasite when your voice cracked.

[C]

Were we live on YouTube?

[B]

We were live on YouTube when you're holding that.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Were we live?

[B]

Yes, we were. I promise you that we were.

[A]

I don't remember that, but. Okay. That sounds right. That's a really.

[B]

And it was exciting.

[A]

Thanks for pointing out that my voice cracked.

[B]

No, but we were talking recently about our various apex mountains on this podcast. And that was yours.

[A]

Oh, thank you. So I remember it fondly when I. When my voice failed. Yeah. Remember Parasite winning? God, that was so fun.

[C]

Oh, you know what I think about all the time? I mean, that is great. But I think about Coda winning all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, that was a zoom Oscar.

[C]

I mean, but think about it. Is this the right order? Did it go green Book Parasite? Coda.

[A]

No. Nomadland.

[C]

Oh, my. Nomadland.

[A]

That was whiplash city back then.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Every year was a rejection of the previous year.

[C]

I mean, and.

[B]

But also both Nomadland and Coda were overshadowed. Nomadland was the second to last award given out that night and the last award was the presumptive best Oscar for Chadwick Boseman.

[C]

That instead went to Anthony Hopkins, who wasn't even there. Yeah.

[B]

So the very last thing you saw was like Anthony Hopkins, zoom, Acceptance. And then Coda was the slap.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

We're going to talk a lot more about previous iterations of the Oscars and what impact they are going to have on this race. Yeah. Before we do that, we have to talk about Paramount and Warner Brothers because you know, that news broke late Thursday afternoon. I'll set the scene for you. Sitting at my daughter's music class, 3:30 in the afternoon, Jack texts me the news, hey, this happened. Do you want to address this? Wrote my little cold open while sitting in the waiting room of the music class. Raced back to the office, looked down the barrel of that camera, shared some immediate thoughts. And then over the weekend, you know, it does seem like the industry is kind of on fire. You guys were at my place last night where we watched the Actor awards and invariably it led to a discussion about Paramount and Warner Brothers and the acquisition of the company. Amanda.

[B]

Yeah, I feel awesome. I'm excited. No, are you kidding?

[C]

What?

[A]

This is.

[C]

Okay, that was a little. No, that was a little ivory detergent. This is a little ivory detergent.

[A]

No.

[B]

Once again, we live in hell. It's horrible. And I think the fact that everyone who knows, quote unquote, has been protected, predicting this since the beginning and really

[C]

since the beginning of what?

[B]

Since the original Netflix deal.

[C]

Once the offer was out there, once

[A]

it was announced that they were going to be sold, basically.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

And even when Netflix announced, oh, we've, you know, agreed to a deal for Warner Brothers, everyone was saying, no, no, no, it's not going to go through and it will be Paramount. That was the talk around town. That was what people who understand Hollywood business and angry rich people.

[A]

Right. I remember vividly we were at a holiday party like a day after it was announced and all the people who were there who were plugged in were telling us.

[B]

And I think even before that, when the Warner's Discovery merger happened, it was like a. This is a built to sell situation. That.

[C]

Built to sell, yes.

[B]

And that, listen, I have no business degree, you know, I'm self taught.

[C]

But wait, wait. But I'm gonna absorb a woman in stem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the common wisdom or the industry people were saying that, I mean this has just been a series of like merger Legos that people have been building and put together for a long period of time. So it, you know, was it foretold in a, in a like spreadsheet sense? Sure, maybe. But it feels terrible all the same.

[C]

Yeah, mostly it feels awful.

[A]

There was some reporting about it this weekend or I guess this morning actually, which relates to the impact it'll have on the things that we cover and care about in general. $6 billion in budget cuts expected, which is going to mean the loss of a lot of jobs.

[C]

And these are redundant like so called redundancies. Right.

[A]

Marketing, business affairs, all these spaces where they're going to have a lot of overlo lap. But also an intention to make 15 movies at Paramount and 15 movies at Warner Brothers and have those two groups operating still with some continuity. A little unclear how that's actually going to shake out. And then in addition to that, the proper merging of Paramount plus and hbo that those two streaming services will come together. I think there's a lot more that's going to come here.

[C]

Hopefully. Hopefully they're not coming together.

[A]

I, I don't know how we actually were talking about this here and you

[C]

can come over here. There's no coming together.

[A]

I don't. Well, we would all love to come together, normally speaking, but I think I just. The 30 movies thing is hard to believe. That's going to be.

[B]

Well, it's all, it's all hard to believe. This is all the talk that happens while you're waiting for approval and you're trying to get everyone to sign on the dotted line and you're trying to get like Casey Bloys to not jump ship. Uh, which. And, and his whole team. I don't want to dismiss the entire team at hbo. And it's, it's just like Ted Sarandos was on the town last week saying the business will remain largely unchanged. That was his line. Largely. Is doing a lot of work. This is our plan.

[C]

Is doing a lot of work. Those jeans were working.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Man wore. Was. What was he also in a double breasted.

[B]

He was in a double breasted tuxedo.

[C]

Tuxedo jacket with. What do we think?

[B]

It's not velvet.

[C]

Sorry. It could be velvet. Excuse me, I will. I retract that.

[B]

He just got $2.8 billion for free.

[C]

You know, I will take. And I love that you just put it right in his pocket. It just goes right.

[B]

Well that, that is one which makes

[C]

the jeans even more deplorable, to be honest.

[A]

Up top, party, down below.

[B]

Yeah, listen, he got into that party. He's not in a bidding war anymore. And so he's, he's wearing jeans, he's relaxed.

[C]

Yeah. I just sort of want to remove the people from this for a second, like.

[B]

Yeah, though you shouldn't. Because one thing about this is it's $2.8 billion is not going in his pocket. But the way that this deal is enriching a few number of executives who were put in place to execute this Lego plan is enraging. Continue.

[C]

I think the reason. I just sort of want to think about what all of the bad news. The people losing jobs.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The, the delusions were being asked to accept about the reality, the sort of paradisical reality of what, what, what awaits us on the other side of the signing of this deal. The approval of it, which is almost certain to happen now because. Sure, you know, Larry Ellison be partying with, with the Magaz.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I don't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The California State Attorney general has said that they will fight this. Right. That there is an attempt to. I don't know about fight it, but they will evaluate it aggressively. I don't know if they have enough strength to block it. There's also, I guess, fewer questions about international approval than there would have been with Netflix. The Netflix deal would have been harder to go through because Europe might have just said no. We see this as a monopoly based on our standards. Less true for Paramount and Warner Brothers.

[B]

I think

[C]

it's just such a. I mean, I don't. This is like the ultimate signifier. I've got many other, like, little things that have sort of signified that this could happen. But now that this is happening, there are so many other things to. Well, first of all, like, I would love to hear you guys talk to me about why this even needs to happen.

[A]

I mean, it does not. It doesn't.

[B]

Other than the. It only needs to happen in the business spreadsheet. Shareholders leveraging, like in this building block of nonsense that has nothing to do with art or movies or TV or anything or jobs, but just the structures that were put together financially 10, 15, whenever, 20 years ago, according to the business people. But it doesn't.

[A]

It's just like a. It's an outcome of conglomeration, that once a studio becomes something that is only a piece of a larger puzzle and that synergies within larger conglomerates are more valuable, that you need to basically plug into something that has more than just the One output of a movie studio, you need to have a streamer. You need to be related to telecom.

[C]

But they already had all these things,

[A]

but they didn't have a. Like a larger tech apparatus. And that is the case that David Ellison is making.

[C]

Like, what is the Pokemon that was that you really need to complete your set.

[A]

I'm not. I'm not justifying the acquisition because I've said the same thing that Amanda just said. This didn't have to happen. It's happening because of greed. But if you believe David Ellison, if you accept him at his word, he's going to say, we're going to change the way that Hollywood operates by using technology, which is at our fingertips. Because my father is the head of one of the most powerful technology companies in the world and one of the richest.

[C]

More importantly, anytime you were talking about a business transaction by saying the words

[B]

my father, it's really not. It's not good.

[C]

Hang up the phone. Hang it up.

[A]

Well, yeah. David Zaslav did not hang up. He accepted. And this is.

[C]

So this is where we're at a series of problems.

[A]

I don't. I. It's gonna take a while for this to get approved. I don't, you know, I don't know how long.

[C]

Like, probably a year. Is that where we're looking?

[A]

It feels like. It feels like we will look at January 2027, maybe for when this would be approved, which would be while the Trump administration is still in office. The midterms will have happened by then, which will be an interesting turn of events. In the event that it is not approved by November, in the event that there is a big blue wave, maybe Congress makes more noise around this than they normally would. That's yet to be seen.

[B]

But does Congress have anything to do ultimately with the approver? It's the doj.

[C]

I don't know. I do not see the FCC or, to quote a different show that talks about this stuff all the time. Pamela. Joe Bondi choosing to do anything other than stamp. Yes. Because there might be a seat on a yacht.

[A]

Yeah, we're working at that level.

[C]

I mean, I just think it's that simple. I don't know that Congress. I mean, of course, traditionally Congress has a role to play. I don't know if they'll be allowed to play their role or if the role they play will matter ultimately.

[A]

You know, Ruben Gallegos, the senator, he, over the weekend said, like, basically, like, sure, keep merging and building up these mega companies, because as soon as we're back in power, we're gonna start breaking them up. He was very vociferous about that. He's one of the very few Democratic politicians who is as.

[C]

Good for him. Good for him.

[A]

Full throated about that kind of thing.

[C]

But I like, with all these things that have happened in the last 14 months, I wonder how much of what has transpired can be detranspired.

[A]

Right.

[C]

How much can be reversed.

[A]

They very rarely get broken up.

[C]

I just don't see this happening in the way that, I mean, it's a great thing to promise to try to do. I just don't know how doable it will ultimately be. But again, now I'm sort of coming back to what this is gonna look like for my Friday night.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Either at home or at the movies.

[C]

What am I doing on Sundays? I mean, Sunday for millions of us.

[A]

It's like HBO time.

[C]

It's HBO time. It's still after all these years, HBO time.

[A]

Yep. And

[C]

Paramount's second biggest movie in the last year is something called Scream 7.

[A]

Yes. The number one movie at the box office this weekend.

[C]

Their second biggest movie is the seventh, Mission Impossible. Is it the seventh one? The eighth one?

[A]

Yeah. Eight. Right. I mean, the final reckoning.

[C]

It's clear they needed something to happen. But I'm like, can y' all study the legacy of Sherry Lansing? I mean, there's a whole history here. I mean, again, I'm probably down here when really we need to stay up here because they don't. They don't even. I am talking about this like they're experiencing a creative crisis when the reality is what I'm just, what is one person's jewel is another person's excrement. And, you know, they can find a way to turn this shit into money, whether whether it's an actual gem or it stays shit or not.

[A]

I think Amanda's LEGO Metaphors apartment I think that this was like an acquisition of a lot of individualized pieces of Legos. And one of them is a big Batman Lego and one of them is a Harry Potter Lego and one of them is a Game of Thrones Lego. And they're going to like stack them and try to build a beautiful tower of content and try to synergize them across technology and make a lot of money.

[B]

That's the plan.

[C]

But.

[A]

All right, so is it going to work? I don't know, maybe.

[C]

We just watched the former SAG Awards last night. This is the thing I think about all the time. Like, I'm a big fan of like, where is. Where is this person right now? Where is X? Like, what happens to X? I can name 15 actors. Like, this isn't. This isn't like a real actor crisis.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Whether you are at the bottom of that ladder or at the tippity top, this is like. This is less for everybody. Less work, probably money. Well, work and money. Those are the two most important things. I don't know. I just don't know. I just. This feels apocalyptic in ways that. I mean, I'm sure the people who are experiencing this on the receiving end understand what a cataclysm this is. But I don't know. Has the public ever really protested?

[A]

No. And they won't hear one of these

[C]

situations because I feel like if you lay it out, I mean, in a way, in a much more articulate way than I could. Like, what really is about to happen? What is three years from now, if this goes through? What does it look like? Does it feel like what things felt like during the pandemic or the strike?

[A]

I mean, maybe a little bit more. Because this is actually a really interesting topic. I was just talking to Amanda right before we started recording about how Neon is effectively changing ownership right now that a new investor is coming in.

[C]

To do what?

[A]

30 west is moving out. This company, Department M is coming in. My guess is that it's to supercharge Neon to make them a bigger studio. And so there is about to be a moment because we're taking a legacy studio off the board. We took Fox off the board seven years ago. MGM and Amazon merged. So there's like a bit of a vacuum here to your point about jobs and opportunities. So Neon and A24 are trying to backfill. Mubi's trying to be A24. Now there's something. There's like a shift. And then behind them is like, Black Bear is in, Roque is in. All these smaller indies are in. And there's an attempt to kind of like, rebuild a couple of bigger studios and then backfill the indies behind them. Whether or not that can happen, it's harder now than it used to be.

[C]

Yeah, but there's two giant pack people out there. Pack people just like, pack pack entities that, like, the minute Neon builds itself into something, you know, gobbleable, somebody will gobble. Somebody will gobble it.

[A]

Saying that about a 24 for years, then that may happen. You know, the fact that Apple didn't buy and has not bought a 24, I still find to be really interesting.

[C]

Have they tried? I mean, that's A company with integrity as far as. I mean, at least business integrity. Right.

[A]

Like, all these companies are built to sell.

[B]

I think it's just also that they haven't had as much business success with.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, it's a drop in the bucket.

[A]

Yeah. Why would you mean Apple?

[B]

Yeah, why would Apple got. Oh, you meant 824. I'm sorry, 824. Of course, 824. I love you. Sure. Don't email me. Don't. Bros. Don't email me. But no, Apple. I. Apple buying it doesn't seem to make any sense just because, like, what Apple's forays into.

[A]

I think if they just really want to be in a more aggressive horse race around building a content library, that's something that. That's really the only case for. This is, like, not our area of expertise. I just think it's really interesting that if you, by taking that huge player off the board, you're going to have fewer jobs, fewer opportunities, fewer films, fewer television shows, in all likelihood.

[C]

But I like being stupid about it because my lack of education, knowledge about how business deals work, I mean, it allows me to sort of think about what really it's going to mean for my TV watching and moviegoing life and the things I don't know. It's just like these people are fucking with our dreams here. No, and I mean, that's a good

[A]

way of putting it.

[C]

They are fucking with how we develop as a culture, how we come to understand ourselves as a people, what this country ought to or should look like 40 years from now. You know, I'm in the middle of. Y' all have heard me talk about this for 11 years, but, like, I'm. I'm almost finished. And, you know, like, I've been using this. This opportunity to. To work on this book, to understand that the history of our country, pretty much the entire history of our country can be told through American movies between, like, 1915 and, like, formerly Today. And yeah, in all kinds of ways. Like the farm crisis of the 1980s has been documented in Hollywood movies.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like

[A]

it's still happening.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[C]

In one battle after another.

[A]

Like, it may not be exactly how you want it told.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, Sean, a different version of Portrait is called In Sinners, and both are Warner Brothers movies.

[A]

Right.

[C]

But let's just really dial that back a little bit.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Because I'm not talking about movies that even go to the Oscars.

[A]

Right, right.

[C]

I'm talking about movies that just got made.

[A]

You're right.

[C]

And nobody went to see them. But they're still with us. Or like, they. They were kind of hits, but, you know, the academy didn't want to do anything with them. I'm talking about an entire ecosystem that existed purely for the sake of. Of art itself and rolling the dice on the possibility that if we put Jessica Lange in a movie about her Nazi father and she discovers that he's a Nazi, and then she defends him in the. In the courtroom trial. This is a music box. A very good movie from 1989. Somebody might want to go, amen, Mueller Stahl. Amen, Mueller Stahl.

[A]

It's a good movie. Is it?

[C]

Cosmic Novice Castagabras. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So I'm just saying, like, there's like a whole. There's a whole kind of star we don't get. There is a whole, like, mode of acting that never gets developed.

[A]

I think you're right.

[C]

There are. I mean, I'm just. I'm. I'm just thinking about this from the standpoint of history. And we're already in the cataclysm. We've been in it for 15, almost 20 years now, where the priorities have just completely shifted. And what it's gonna look like to know what this country was like just by going to the movies is gonna be harder to discern. It's just not reflecting reality and not that the movies were reflective of the actual reality. But every prong of every crisis can be found in a national crisis. Like, local crisis can be found, you know, up to, like. I would say, like, maybe the early 2000s in our movies. And I would include the, you know, the 2000s themselves as being still interested in what it is like to live in this country at that moment in real time.

[A]

We talked about this through 25, for 25. And our top three were movies where we were sort of like, past, present, future, where we talked about There will be blood, 25th hour, and the Social Network has this kind of trilogy of movies that were reflecting on where we came from, where we are, where we're going. And I think movies will still do that. They can still do that. There's still going to be a lot of, you know, Universal. We were saying last night is like, kind of maybe is licking their chops a little bit, at least when it comes to movies, because they're going to be like, we're going to have a lot of opportunities here.

[C]

I think we agree that Donna Langley is the single. Not the single most interesting, because everybody's every. Everybody on the board is interesting. But I feel like Anytime I talk to somebody about, like, what it's like to be out here and like, how things are, like, like studio people, there is a kind of like, I love Universal. I love the idea of Universal. What's going to happen to Universal? And I just feel like I don't know what they're. I don't know what. I don't know how this looks to that company.

[A]

I think it's probably very scary to have to compete if you're Universal, which is also, you know, a broadband cable company, to have to compete with a Paramount megalith, plus Netflix, plus Amazon and Apple's unyielding financial power. However, they've done a really smart thing in the last 10 years by basically re centering to being like, we're a filmmaker studio. Right. We're the home of Jordan Peele and Christopher Nolan and Steven Spielberg, and we sign up A plus talent. That's what we do. And we make cool.

[C]

And we do okay. They do really. Okay.

[A]

Yeah. So in that respect, I think it's okay for the broader. Like, what is. What does this mean for Peacock? I mean, Peacock was not in a good place before. I can't imagine they're in a better place now.

[C]

Yeah, I don't. I don't know. I just feel like this is really, really, really, really, really, really bad. And I would love somebody to say, wesley, it's not that bad.

[A]

No one has said that.

[C]

No, nobody is saying that. No, nobody has.

[B]

It just. I mean, the other thing we've talked about on this show that echoes what you're saying is just as movie people and as movie people who came of age when movies were still like, the dominant American art form, and an art form that wasn't created here, but certainly, as you said, the roots in how and what America is and how it's been expressed and sold to the world are here. And it just. The movies are no longer the center of culture and they are no longer the way that we investigate ourselves, the way they're not what people look to anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And this feels like. Well, but this feels like just a confirmation, like another. Like a really big chip off the mountain just of what we had as a moviegoing culture keeps going. And even the fact that the details of these studios are sort of like a footnote. Details mean what? Like what's gonna happen to Warner Brothers and what will happen to Paramount and how they will make movies?

[C]

Like, in the way that we're talking about.

[A]

No, they're less important than what is gonna happen to Batman. Exactly. That's actually how this is being consumed,

[B]

is that it's just kind of. Oh, and, you know, we'll figure out.

[A]

Well, there's no thought about the legacy of Warner Brothers going into this acquisition. It's about the legacy of what Warner, bro. I think. I mean, I think that's what's most valuable to David Ellison, who's. And also to Netflix. I think Netflix wanted it for that reason, to kind of optimize the access to those worlds.

[C]

What about the Dangerous Liaisons verse?

[A]

I mean, if you. Yeah, we can build that out. Sure. You want to expand that universe.

[C]

That's a wonderful.

[B]

Versus Cruel Intentions.

[A]

Five could be good.

[B]

Or eight. I don't know how many Cruel intentions there are.

[A]

I'm going to pivot us to award season because we could talk about Paramount for months and months and we probably wouldn't.

[C]

But if there is somebody out there who's got some good news with respect to all of this, I would love to read that, hear from that person.

[A]

We're not gonna know, honestly, what it really means for 24 months because it's gonna take a year to clear and then another year to greenlight a bunch of new movies that will be like, oh, this is what Paramount, Warner Brothers is.

[C]

That's a long time from now before we move on. I just. I guess.

[B]

But the Beatles movies still won't be out. It'll still all happen before the four Beatles movies.

[A]

That's so crazy.

[C]

Is it one they're doing one a year?

[A]

No, no. One a week. One a week for 20, 28.

[B]

We're just hanging on.

[A]

Yeah. Those will be our final episodes of this show. That's when Amanda and I, we moved to Hawaii. After that, we're done. But those episodes will be 24 hours long. Each one we've been preparing our whole lives.

[C]

Crazy. I am. I've got a lot of feelings about. I mean, like, knowing how you feel. I mean, you know about the Beatles.

[B]

Yes. Just.

[A]

It's a religion.

[C]

I've got a lot of questions.

[B]

We didn't even talk about Harris Dickinson last night. But that's a whole other.

[C]

Was he there?

[B]

No. Which is why.

[C]

Which is why what?

[B]

Which is why he didn't come up in the list of, you know, men

[A]

that Amanda wants to fuck. Yes.

[C]

Excuse me.

[B]

Quite like that. Amanda has an appreciation for.

[C]

I'm, like, immune. I'm like. I guess we. We differ in every way. Except for your husband.

[B]

I know. That's. But it's a lovely place where we meet.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I just like none of Your men are my men.

[B]

Yeah, it's true. Last night I spent a lot of time defending Jacob. Lordy to you.

[C]

Not defending. I understand it. It just. Nothing happens. Wait, but seriously, I. Are you. You guys talk to filmmakers? I don't talk to filmmakers.

[B]

Yes, you do. I mean, I do. I don't.

[C]

I really don't. I don't. I've not talked to a real. I mean, I don't talk to the people you talk to is what I would say.

[A]

I think that they're scared.

[C]

They're scared, of course.

[B]

Yeah. And are they?

[A]

It's hard to get stuff made. It's harder than ever to get stuff made. And it's harder to get stuff made with big conglomerates. And when you go into those situations with fewer options, it's harder to make more money. It's harder to get something off the ground. I think it's interesting to look at what, like, James Mangold is somebody I think a lot about in this configuration, right? Like, really, like, older craftsman who has a ton of respect, who has been an Academy Award nominated, and he's like, I really want to make a Star wars movie, you know, and he's going to make a thriller with Timothee Chalamet, but he's also working on a Star wars movie. And there's a certain class of person who's already, like, crossed the threshold of being able to work, but they know that to keep working at scale and to get their smaller movies made, they really do got to participate in the big old franchise game. And Paramount's going to up the ante on that stuff, too. So that'll be interesting. Now, younger filmmakers. It's fucking hard, man.

[C]

Well, this was, you know, my little purity tests that I used to maintain are, like, not against the filmmakers, but against the industry insisting that, like, you know, the Edward Schultzes of the world can't go into the tractor beam because look at what they have to offer the world.

[A]

Or, you know, they can go to tv. I mean, and I think a lot

[C]

of Eggers, I mean, there's so many

[B]

that is already contracting and will contract.

[A]

It is. I think Eggers is a really good case for the future. Might be okay. I think he is using ip, but he's using it very thoughtfully.

[C]

He's doing smart things with it. I just worry. I mean, I think. I mean, I remember thinking, like Chloe Zhao, the first thing she does after she wins her Academy Award for Best Director. Isn't it make the marvels.

[A]

It is, yeah. Eternals.

[C]

Yeah, Eternals. Sorry. I Just was like, well, this is. Well, here we have it. But I think I have to stop with that because it's not fair to the environment for these people. I'm not letting the industry off the hook. But people have to eat.

[A]

She did this.

[C]

People, people are creepy. People have.

[A]

She did the same thing.

[C]

Things they want to say.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I can't. It's not in my, it's really none of my business what the artists choose to do. I would just say that if given, given the option of doing 10 more nomad land and 10 more hamnets. If you're, if you're Chloe. I don't, I can't think for her. But I don't know if I mean, having seen what seen the Eternals and having seen the other movies, I'm, I'm convinced that one thing is a better use of her than the other thing. I don't know. I don't like she. Feel free to disagree. But I, I do think that, that having these, these artists make these choices and have the choice be a question of like, well, it's a, like either I'm working or I'm. Or I'm not working. And at what point do my principles. Because also the bigger these companies get, the more politics becomes an issue.

[A]

Right. This is a, that's a whole other rabbit hole. Yeah.

[C]

And you're then making a whole other series.

[A]

Paramount, like, what is the character of their films? What. What is, what is the messaging for lack of a better term, what are.

[B]

Who gets to work?

[A]

Who gets to work thematically, who gets to.

[C]

What does it look like?

[A]

Major studio movies.

[C]

I mean, we know he's fine at Universal if, But like, let's just say

[A]

but there's a long, there's a long term impact.

[C]

Guess what? Look, guess what the pipeline is going to look like for non straight white men to make anything.

[A]

We're going to find out if there's

[C]

somebody in the company who's just like, nope. Dei DEI D. You know, I, I don't know what that looks like.

[A]

I think, I do think.

[C]

I mean, I do know what it looks like and it's, it's grim.

[A]

I do think historically in this business money wins. There does have, they do have to lift the gate sometimes. But they're not going to not hire somebody if they think they can make them money while being controlled by them. So that will be a component of this, this decision making.

[C]

You know, man, like, can you be a five star general? Is that an option? I just think a lot about Lloyd Austin getting Fired the minute they came back into office. Lloyd Austin was one of the first negroes to lose his job. And this is a highly decorated person who was running the Department of Defense or not even he was a Joint Chiefs, I think. And just see ya. We don't need you. Yeah, this is like, I'm just also, we don't need you because once you made a video where you were just like, yeah, it is hard to be a Negro in the American military. And I have a lot of historical. I bring a lot of history with me to this job and I'm watching what's happening in the streets right now and it's making me sad. That was enough. You know, I just feel like I know we're gonna start talking about awards. I just feel like it's interesting to have one battle after another and sinners be at the top of that conversation and the lesson and be Warner Brothers movies. What are the lessons that are gonna be learned?

[A]

I think a lot of people are seeing this news and even this award season as like a kind of a Viking funeral. That this is like a send off of an era. I don't know if that's going to turn out to be the case. You know, the Odyssey is going to kick ass. Like it's not like movies are going away forever. Like it's going to be fine in that very specific short term respect.

[C]

But yeah, but for 10 people, what does newness look like? Also. Yeah, it's Christopher Nolan doing the the oldest story ever told.

[B]

Yeah, that's movies story by Christopher Nolan and Homer.

[A]

Does it say that?

[B]

Is that the Credit IMDb credit page? Was that for a while? Yeah. I don't. I mean, which is actually I deserve

[A]

to alongside Nolan updating it, but yeah, okay. There were a number of precursor award shows over the weekend. The first was the Ace Eddie Awards. That's the editing group. They gave best edited feature film drama to Sinners and best edited feature film comedy to One Battle After Another. Much like the Golden Globes. That tells us nothing.

[C]

Also, they're breaking it down like that too.

[A]

I don't understand what I mean. I guess there are different editing rhythms to those different genres that are worth noting. But I find splitting Up Best Film Awards to be very strange. The Producers Guild Awards, of which I am a member and voted, transpired on Saturday. And One Battle After Another won the Daryl F. Zanuck Award for outstanding producer of Theatrical Motion Pictures. So just to give you guys some context, One Battle After Another has now won the Critics Choice Award. The Golden Globe for musical or comedy. The BAFTA for best film. It won an ACE Award. It won the DGA for Paul Thomas Anderson. It won the Producer's Guild Award, and it's probably going to win the WGA Award for adapted screenplay. That is the strongest best film package in the history of the Academy Awards.

[C]

Really?

[A]

And yet.

[C]

Yeah, and yet.

[B]

And yet.

[A]

And yet we will get to Sinners has not won a single major best picture precursor. No critics groups, no cca, no Globes, no bafta. No pga. Just cinematic and box office achievement at the Golden Globes. However, here is one historical data point. It has won SAG ensemble, which you will get to momentarily. It has won an ACE Award, and it is also almost certainly going to win the WGA Award for original screenplay. And no movie who's had those three awards has ever lost Best Picture.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

So we have.

[C]

It's two undefeated.

[A]

Two trains. Yeah. On a track. We can talk about what we think is gonna happen there. It's very strange for a movie. It would be the biggest upset in Oscars history. If Sinners wins Spotlight won the Spirits and the LA Film Critics Circle, National Society of Film Critics. Moonlight won the Globes and all four major critics awards. Parasite won the Palme d' or and major critics groups.

[C]

Talk to me about Coda. Talk to me about Coda.

[A]

Coda won something at Sundance. It won sag, like many years before.

[B]

Yeah. And Troy Kotzer won as well. Troy, sag.

[A]

It's code. What awards did Coda win? Let's take a quick.

[C]

I'm just saying, like, Coda is my favorite best picture win story of all time.

[A]

Yes. And it. Coda was a late surgery, for sure.

[C]

Well, we know what happened. I mean. I mean, we've. We've. We've discussed this before. I love this. I love that it happened because it such a. This is what y' all all get now.

[A]

I like Coda a lot of the Spirit Awards. Mm. Oh, no, sorry. It did not. That was Troy Kosi.

[C]

I don't think it even won that.

[A]

It won. This is a really good question. Oh, Coda won pga.

[C]

Oh, did it? Okay, but because. Because you know what happened when Coda won pga?

[A]

That's when everybody was like, oh, actually, it's Coda. It's definitely not Power of the Dog.

[C]

I. But have I told this story to talk to you about this before? Like, I feel maybe I've talked to Bill about it. Like, I just remember. Maybe I just texted somebody after this happened. But, like, you know, I watched it at home like everybody else and the, like, the minute they get to the audition for Berklee, I mean, I'm.

[A]

When she sings Both sides now I'm crying.

[B]

Yeah. Who's not crying?

[A]

It's incredible.

[C]

I'm crying. And I said, this isn't fair. This isn't fair. Because if. If this is happening to me in my living room, it's happening to everybody else in their living room. And it is. I watched it during open the. While the. While the ballots were still open. And I'm like, there's no way I'm not in. You know, I don't vote for anything, but, like, there's no way if I'm an Academy voter, that my ballad is sitting here unsent. And I'm not like, ding.

[A]

Well, so I think that's very.

[C]

Putting it first.

[A]

I think that's very notable and resonant in this particular race because the conversations that we were having were like, the Power of the Dog is a very well made film by a hugely admired filmmaker who had not won in that category before.

[C]

Nobody I knew liked one second of watching it.

[A]

Right. And Koda is from a filmmaker we've never heard of. There was an Apple movie that premiered at Sundance, but everybody was like, that movie makes me feel good.

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And sometimes a movie that makes people feel good just wins.

[C]

And this year, and it was a time that we wanted to feel good,

[A]

I think Sinners is the movie that people are like, this movie makes me feel good. Now, that doesn't mean it's gonna win. Those movies don't always win.

[B]

I do think. I think Sinners does make people feel good or at least excited. And we've seen that at every single awards show that we've watched or attended. Like, there's a Coogler hive. I'm a proud member. You know, I had to get involved with that.

[C]

And what does mean. What do you mean, get involved with that?

[B]

That's a quote from when he was on Amy Poehler and talking about discovering the soda fountain, the soda machines at the Flavors.

[A]

He was like, I was not really. I didn't used to be a soda guy. And then I saw you could mix the flavors, and I had to get involved with that.

[C]

All I want is Ryan Coogler starring and curb some more enthusiasm.

[A]

Exactly what it was.

[B]

So there's like a huge, huge, huge amount of enthusiasm for that movie. But I don't think that one battle has the same problems. That power of the nap, it does not. And in fact, there is.

[A]

Gilsterman's famously once called it the power of the nap.

[B]

No, there is like an equally passionate group of people who love not just pta, but this film and were like, really energized by it. You've seen it how many times now?

[A]

Seven. Yeah, seven times on the big screen. Yeah.

[C]

I thought four was a lot.

[B]

Right. So I think it's. You're right that there is some like, emotional pull to Sinners and I think that that really could push a lot of voters this way. But it's not like replacing, you know, a lack of enthusiasm on the other side the way that Koda was.

[C]

Can I present something here? It's Sunday on the west coast at. 9:00pm on the 15th

[A]

and

[C]

sinners is just one best picture. What is. How do I put this? What does it look like for one battle after another to have lost the best Picture Oscar?

[A]

For whom? Because, like, is it a culture war? Is that what you're asking? No.

[B]

God.

[C]

Oh, my God. Even consider that.

[A]

I think there will be ugly takes in the aftermath. Yeah. In either direction. In either direction.

[B]

People got to stop.

[C]

Wait, is this the thing? These movies are being pitted against each other?

[A]

Well, they're just. They're the two leading contenders, so. But I think they're both beloved. However, they both have strong detractors. Yeah, like. Like any favorite.

[C]

I am, I am. I'm going to talk to one of my favorite people who is a vociferous detractor for one battle after another. But I think that the. I mean, the wonderful thing about these two movies being at the top of the pile is they are speaking to each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, these movies are the. One of the great best picture double features ever.

[A]

Totally agree. We've been saying it for months and

[C]

they don't like, it's. I mean, one can definitely exist without the other, but the fact that they both exist together, to me, it makes

[A]

me feel like we're in the 70s where you would be like, gosh, I don't even know what to pick.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

That was the fun time.

[C]

I mean, I think part of what I'm wondering, like, I know there's a world where it's like Sinners loses. And it's like Sinners had a great. It was. Sinners did the most. It had the greatest run. Everybody loved it, it had the most nominations and. But I feel like if one battle after another lose, it's just going to be another one of these. Well, gosh, Paul Thomas Anderson just can't get it over the line, can he?

[A]

But then, But Then he. I think if that happens, then he goes. Because this is his best chance. Right? This is. He'll never have a better chance than this. This is the biggest movie he's ever made. It is the most success. The run of precursors is crazy town. I mean, it's been dominant. You've been saying it ever since way before the Academy Award nominations. You were like, this gets decided very early. A movie usually goes on a crazy run. This movie has done that as pretty much as strongly as Oppenheimer. If he doesn't win, he immediately goes into

[C]

better than Oppenheimer.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Okay. I agree, too. But that's fine.

[C]

Not even close.

[A]

I think he immediately becomes. It's like Kubrick, Hitchcock. There's that short list of master filmmakers, geniuses of their era who don't win. And he goes into that canon.

[B]

But here's the thing.

[A]

And then maybe he wins for some other movie he makes when he's 76 or whatever. I don't. I don't know.

[B]

No, no, here's the thing. I do think that Paul Thomas Anderson is a lock for director.

[A]

He is.

[B]

So that is interesting. And you see in the Code of Power of the Dog Year, there was a split. Jane Campion did when director.

[C]

I don't like this either, though.

[B]

You don't like the split? No, I mean, I don't get a

[C]

bad director award at all. I don't like the history of the split.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Because it. It now. Now we're at a point of, like, elite. Elite Hollywood politics. Although, like, we can talk about what Hollywood politics even means with this Academy now, but we're at a point where the. With the politics of this show and this award where we don't have a black director who's won this prize yet.

[A]

Do not.

[B]

No.

[C]

And I don't like the idea of Best Picture being a consolation prize, because.

[B]

Is it a consolation prize? I feel like director is a consolation.

[C]

I feel like it's just happened. Steve McQueen.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Barry Jenkins.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I don't. I don't enjoy this. Right. Where I. I just, like, let a brother win Best Director. I'm. I. I don't know. And you know. You know what's funny? I don't. I'm not. I'm saying this, and it's completely untethered to an argument about the directing of both these movies. I think every time I watch Sinners, I'm just like,

[A]

wow. Yeah, I know we talked about this last.

[C]

I mean, Paul Thomas Anderson, like, it's very, very hard because somebody's Gotta not win.

[A]

And however, this is, this is unusual and I want to talk about this, the actor awards, because they're related to this. But, you know, in all likelihood, they could both get two. They could both get. Oh, the screenplay. They're both, they're both going to get screenplay.

[C]

Sure, sure.

[A]

And. And PTA is almost certainly going to win director. He wanted DGAs. And then if picture goes to centers, then Ryan gets one, too. And then it's two to two. And then that would be the most harmonious balance that I think that the Academy could land on.

[C]

These guys have punched it out so many. These guys.

[A]

I still think one battle is going to win. It's hard.

[C]

It's hard not assume one valid six months now.

[A]

It's like, oh, yeah, and they're. They're buddies.

[C]

I don't, I mean, I don't like, I don't even like the idea of, again, like, I don't believe these two movies are in opposition to each other in any other way.

[A]

They're not. But this forces. I mean, this experience forces it. So the thing that happened. Let's talk about the. The actors in Full Sinners did win ensemble, which was predicted and I think follows, frankly, the, the actor awards. The SAG Ensemble award is a much more generous award to black film, black actors than the Academy Awards are. Recent winners include Black Panther, Ryan Coogler's film Hidden Figures. You know, it also does not.

[C]

I forgot hidden figures.

[A]

It does not really correlate typically with Best Picture. Last year, you may recall, Conclave won best Ensemble, not Anora, despite Honora having a dominant Oscar night.

[C]

Yeah, but I think those people are voting for the right reasons. Right. Like, I feel like that. I feel like that ensemble in most cases. I understand. I under. These are people who, I mean, you guys told me who all is in SAG AFTRA last night, and I was.

[A]

Yes, it is actors, but it is also radio and television broadcasters and weathermen and influencers.

[B]

But to be clear, not the three people sitting at the stable.

[A]

That's true. None of us are in that union. However, I will say I think less than 5% of the membership of SAG votes for the Academy Awards.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Like, it's a small number of people, so be careful in terms of trying to make a difference. Right.

[C]

I have no correlation to make. I just want to say they understand what an ensemble is generally. They really do understand what even, even in the nominating, you know, what it turns out to be. I think one battle after another is the best casting directed movie of the year of last year. But obviously Sinners just for Miles Caton alone is. Is an achievement.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, Secret Agent wasn't part of the situation at the SAG Awards.

[A]

None of the international.

[C]

But also like just one of the great, great cast movies of. Great cast movies of 2024.

[A]

It's a funky award. I always point to 2020 as this award being maybe not as relevant. Do you remember which movie won in 2020 for best ensemble for the films of 2020? Yes.

[B]

So not because Parasite won in the films of 2021. February. Okay, so 21.

[A]

This is a great footnote.

[B]

Wasn't what movies came out in 2020? Not Nomadland.

[A]

Not Nomadland. Obviously an outlier year for the Academy Awards given the number of releases. But think hard.

[B]

Hillbilly elegy.

[A]

No, the answer is the Trial of the Chicago 7.

[B]

Oh, sure, another Netflix movie.

[A]

But again, Nomadland not even nominated in the category.

[C]

That's a well cast movie though, Nomadland.

[A]

Yeah, similar actually to one battle after another with a lot of non professional actors.

[C]

I mean, I don't love that movie, but casting wise, I'm not arguing with it anyway, but I get that. I mean, listen, listen. Trial of the Chicago 7, your favorite

[A]

film of that year.

[B]

That's a movie that happened.

[A]

An astounding achievement that we will forever remember.

[C]

Just. Are they sure they weren't. I mean, I'm sure most of people thought they picked up their Emmy ballot.

[A]

Yeah, big time HBO original movie vibes with that one. So Sinners wins ensemble. And the reason that I got all excited to talk to you about this is that the biggest surprise of the night and the best moment of the night in my opinion was Michael B. Jordan winning best actor for Sinners, which I would never in a million years have predicted. Some people have predicted it. I gotta give it up to Clayton Davis from Variety. He has been holding the line on this and he hard predicted this last night.

[C]

He must have blown out of his house.

[A]

Yes. And he has been holding on Sinner's winning best Picture. He had ensemble. He has been saying this is going to happen now. We've been talking Timothy Chalamet in this race for many, many months. He showed weakness at bafta when Robert Aramayo won.

[C]

He showed. He showed weakness.

[A]

He bent the knee to the film, I swear. And now, and now I feel like his odds are going to plummet. Obviously not winning sag. He won SAG last year and no one has ever won SAG two years in a row. That has also been Noted quite a bit. Yes. So maybe they were just trying to pivot. They said we gave it to him last year. Who knows? Could, could Michael B. Jordan win best actor at the Academy Awards? You actually, right before the award was announced, you turned to us and you were like, I feel like people are not saying he's really good in this movie.

[C]

I, I, I had to say it to myself. I had to remind myself I'm like writing something about how easy it has been to sleep on him. Well, he made it easy. He has made it easy. But I think that there is something about the, like he talked about Ryan Coogler in his speech last night in a way that was so not, we're homies and friends. It was, oh my God, I might start crying. It's like you see something in me. Thank you for seeing like what my talent can do. Like, that's not a like, yo, man, I've been telling you for years we got this on lock, you and I, we keep doing it together. I'm picking up this penis less trophy.

[A]

But Amy Madigan, we'll get to her.

[C]

It doesn't have a dick. She is like, that is like real statue criticism 101.

[A]

Do most statues have dicks?

[C]

That's the problem.

[A]

Statuettes. Most statues do, right? Yes, they do. Sure he does.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But Oscar doesn't.

[C]

That is doing a lot of work. Yeah, don't, whatever. Don't even get me started about emasculating statues. But what he, the way he talked about Coogler was so like genuine and it was almost as though like Scorsese had given him the part or, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Spike Lee giving him the job.

[A]

Him on his shoulder at an early stage, at a pivotal stage of his career with Fruitvale where he was like coming out of the Wire and Friday Night Lights and he casts him in his debut feature and now they work together in on every movie.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And they are, they are Scorsese and De Niro. I mean, that is what they're doing.

[B]

And they do also. I mean, he's right.

[C]

No way.

[B]

Respect to Michael B. Jordan for understanding that like Coogler like understands and helps

[A]

him do something he's writing with MBJ in mind.

[B]

He does not that that MEJ doesn't always find in his other performances and his other films.

[C]

But if you watch the, I mean, if you, I don't know, I now have recently watched it, watching only what he's doing. And I guess it's easy to miss for a number of reasons. And I don't Know if this, I mean, we can talk about this later. But like not the greatest line reader, not the most emotionally variant.

[A]

He's a stern jawed leading man.

[C]

He doesn't have whatever range is. That's not his thing. But Coogler understands that there's this inner fire in this man. And I don't know how he directs actors or Michael B. Jordan for that matter, but there's something about this gauge that he has that he. Only in his movies does that temperature fluctuate in a way that transmits emotion to an audience.

[A]

I always think of it the way that watch a movie, watch a Tarantino movie with Samuel L. Jackson or Christoph Waltz. Tarantino knows how to write for those actors better than anyone. And you see Christoph Waltz in Frankenstein and you're like, why is this not interesting? Why is this annoying? And you watch him in one of the Tarantino movies and you're like, why is this the best actor on earth? And same for Sam Jackson. Sam Jackson reading Tarantino lines. And I feel that Coogler really, really knows how to write for MBJ and that that is why he is literally his top five performances are just in Coogler movies. And that's great. And they should be rewarded for that. I mean, you could say the same for De Niro, that he is frequently doing his best work when he's working with the person who understands him the best as an actor.

[C]

I just was very moved by the. By how moved and touched he was. And to remember that, like there's a world where I am. All I'm doing is selling Alexa in a bathtub.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And having that be the most important work I've ever done. Because listen, that was important work.

[A]

Do you think he can win?

[B]

I really have no idea. I really.

[C]

You said Wagner Mora could win.

[A]

I think he can.

[B]

Certainly. I think your interpretation that like Timmy's kind of out is. And I think that was really confirmed at BAFTAs because what is.

[C]

But talk to me about that. What is. What are we really saying when we

[B]

say that he's lost the momentum and voting is open right now and there has always been a pretty loud resistance to it.

[C]

Not for me, to him.

[A]

He hasn't given a speech in weeks.

[B]

To him and to.

[A]

That's just the best way to put it. Right.

[B]

And the. And the reason that I had written Wagner Mora off which like, I think like January 8th, after the Golden Globes, I was like, it's Wagner Mora. It is like this is happening. Never underestimate. Never underestimate Brazil. Leslie no, but you out here, like, I'm like.

[C]

They speak Spanish. I don't. I've never.

[B]

I have never. Yeah, but so Wagner Mora also has just not given a speech since the Golden Globes, you know, and that's because.

[C]

But he gave a speech. He got to give one.

[B]

He did. But I think it's just at this point, it is a little bit who's in front of people's eyes right now.

[A]

It's just very confusing because Wagner Moore, to me, would be a very representative new Academy win. Right. It's a movie that made it into Best Picture. It's a movie that has a tremendous amount of admiration. It's a Cannes film. He won best Actor at Cannes. He won the Golden Globe. But then he didn't even make the shortlist for bafta and he didn't get nominated.

[B]

Really weird.

[C]

They release a shortlist.

[A]

They do, Yeah.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Whatever's going on over there.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Did y' all see what happened during the broadcast?

[B]

We did.

[C]

Did we need to know that happened? Was it two hour delay and we

[B]

still found out and they edited other things? I mean, come on.

[C]

Well, I mean, very strange award show

[A]

that honestly, we've always had a little bit of a critical distance from on this show. We've been criticized for not engaging with it. And there's a reason why we don't love engaging with it.

[C]

They've always made some bath baft ling choices. I just don't understand. I don't. I don't know. I.

[A]

The Aramaya win, though, in that category, I think is really what throws this into a sense of disrepair. Like, I. I don't. And you know what? Honestly, hey, this is.

[C]

It makes it. It makes it fun.

[A]

Such a big award to be in, like, the coin is in the air until March 15th is so fun.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I honestly don't know what I'm gonna.

[B]

In the room was electric. I mean, first of all, so Viola Davis was presenting and she couldn't.

[C]

I mean, I love it.

[B]

Great. It was wonderful. She, like, she had her moment already.

[A]

Some great memes of her reacting.

[B]

Totally. You asked me what she's up to and it's like delta and now memes. But. And everyone was so excited. And I think a little bit of it was the excitement of surprise and then. And if you watch the reactions, which I have many times. Jesse Plemons, immediately very excited. Ethan Hawke, immediately very excited. Timmy putting on his vest. I'm happy for him. Face Leo not there.

[A]

Not there. He's making a movie with Martin Scorsese.

[C]

This is really fascinating. Like, I.

[A]

Great speech, by the way.

[C]

Great speech.

[B]

Amazing. Also thanking his mom for like, driving him through the Holland tunnels. Yeah, it was so lovely.

[A]

Very good. Really, really, really. Like a rare, like, awards moment, show moment where you're like, this is what. This is what. It can be good. This can be good.

[B]

And also after much debate over the course of the night, we decided it was a good suit. We liked the suit.

[A]

Tom Ford.

[C]

No, I didn't change my mind. I.

[B]

About that. No, you said good.

[C]

I. But the pants were.

[B]

Yeah, listen, there. There is a problem with men's tailoring.

[A]

There was. There. There was some angle issues as well.

[B]

And there were some angle issues.

[A]

There were. There were some camera issues. The whole show is a little complicated for the actors.

[C]

I mean, like, can I just. Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Boys and girls, no one can see this.

[B]

Can anyone see up on.

[C]

Like, I will take my shoes off because I'm a New Yorker. Like, you can't. Nobody wants to see this.

[B]

This is why we flew you out.

[C]

Nobody wants to see this.

[A]

If.

[C]

I mean, you gotta just take it in a little bit more so nobody can see your inner scene.

[A]

I, I agree with this.

[C]

I agree with you.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Like, you gotta just cinch it.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Also, two breaks you don't need.

[B]

You don't need two breaks. You don't need to.

[C]

Especially if you've got a wide, wide leg.

[A]

No.

[C]

What are we doing, people?

[B]

The breaks were such a problem across the board that I think every man who came out, I did think some of it had to do. So all of the feature films, the ensembles were presented by, you know, a group of cast members. And it's just a very strange, below the stage, upwards angle, which helps no one. Like, why, why are we doing this?

[C]

I can't tell if that really is

[B]

the issue here, but it did accentuate the breaks. Like the breaks were sort of. Were greenlanded, if you will, within the frame, you know.

[C]

But this now means that these stylists have a new job.

[B]

They. Well, they've never been able to get Men's tailor.

[C]

Hey, Jacob, stand on this box.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm going to. I'm going to get down all the way down here with my camera and I'm going to see, like, is this button rushing up on your, on your. Yeah, on your double breasted jacket. I don't know.

[A]

Amazing physical performance for you today so far.

[C]

I just don't. I don't know. It just really delroy Lindo knows how to wear a tuxedo and knows what notes to offer. I don't know who dressed it, but

[A]

he was also just wearing a much more classical tuxedo and taller.

[B]

He is taller.

[A]

He is taller. That's a factor too. He was the tallest guy.

[C]

Jacob Elordi is like nine feet tall.

[B]

Well, I think Jacob Elordi might honestly be too tall. You know, he's like beyond sample size. On the other way.

[A]

I'm stunned to hear you say that.

[B]

Not for me, but in terms of, in terms of the. Listen, men are finally learning what it is to. To get dressed and the sample sizes are made for one exact body type. That is like basically yours, which is really annoying. And it's definitely not if you're not sample size. They. They don't know. It takes a lot of effort.

[A]

We were joking last night that I can usually pull off off the rack and in a way that is very popular. Satisfying for me.

[C]

And we hate you.

[B]

I impulse ordered so much this morning from the RealReal because of. Because you've changed your plans for Oscar night.

[A]

It's okay. Oh, yeah. Well, we'll see. No guarantee that I'll be able to do that in time. No spoilers for our outfits for an Oscar night.

[C]

I cannot wait.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

I mean, I was already going to watch, but you sold a ticket quickly.

[A]

Precursors for best Actor. Wagner Moore. Globe. Chalamet. Globe. Timothee Chalamet. Critics choice, Robert R. Mayo. Bafta, Michael B. Jordan. Sag. Just simply put, your prediction for the winner of best actor at the Oscars. Amanda and I will hold ours till next week when we predict.

[C]

Oh, my God. Michael B. Jordan's gonna win an Oscar.

[B]

Oh, that's so nice.

[A]

That's great. I really think that could happen. And that is just crazy.

[C]

I think Michael B. Jordan's gonna win an Oscar.

[A]

He would be. He would be literally my fifth pick three months ago.

[C]

I feel like he's in fifth place if I'm voting. I don't know if I'm. I mean, although, you know, I've spent this time with this performance now and I'm just like. Yeah, but listen, come on, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

[B]

No, but this.

[C]

I, I mean, listen, I am saying that there's a world in which he's win. In which he would win. And I am going to burst into tears because also young black men. Right? I mean, just like there's a lot of history that comes into these things at some point and you just really. My, my historiometer starts Going a little bit nuts. And I'm thinking, like, how old was Forest Whitaker when he won? How old was Jamie Foxx when he won? How old was when Denzel? I mean, they're all around the same age.

[A]

Denzel is the rare. He got one very early for.

[C]

Oh, wait, I'm sorry. I was thinking about Malcolm X, sir. For best actor. For best actor. For best act. For best actor.

[A]

Just.

[C]

Just those two guys. And Party A, Sidney. Party A would have been 32. I mean, they're all like 35. I mean, Jordan is what, 35.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

They're all Jamie Foxx, Forest Whitaker, Sidney Poitier.

[A]

I think Forest Whitaker was older. I think he was in his, like, mid-40s when he won for Last game of Scotland.

[C]

Okay, we can look that up. That's probably true. That's probably true.

[A]

Yeah. And Mahershala for supporting. He was in his 40s, right. When he won both of those.

[C]

That's. Anybody can win.

[A]

But.

[C]

But it's more like best actor. Because what. I mean, if. If Michael B. Jordan wins, what are we at?

[A]

4 or black actors who are black

[C]

men who've won best actor.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that's.

[A]

It could happen. It could not happen.

[C]

It's five, I'll tell you. Four winners. Right.

[A]

I'm also not writing off Timothee Chalamet.

[C]

No. But. Well, can you talk to me about the resistance? Is there resistance to this movie?

[A]

I don't think. Well, you know, one. The movie.

[B]

Not in this seat.

[A]

We both love the movie. You like the movie?

[C]

Yeah, I really love it.

[A]

I think one, the movie had a smear campaign against it. Obviously, there was a dramatic story written about the safdies that I think has definitely influenced the campaign somewhat. I think also more specifically in this case, but more specifically, I think it's the whiplash of the Timothee Chalamet campaigning for the movie's box office success and the swaggery style that he was bringing to that campaign, to the pivot to. I am awards campaigning. And now I'm.

[C]

You can say it, Sean. I was black over here and I'm white over here. And I. I apologize, everybody.

[A]

But now, if I were him, I would not have done anything different. He made that movie a massive success. We were talking about it last night. No, I mean, this was the final step in him elevating himself over basically all of his peers as the standalone movie star of his generation. And it worked for the movie. He may be paying the price for

[B]

it right now, but there is also just a little bit of the. I don't like this character. I don't endorse this. Like, very strong.

[C]

It's very, very strong.

[B]

And how those things overlap and then how someone walks out of a movie and what their review is. And I think, you know, we three. Well, I won't speak for you. I don't endorse many of this person's actions, but I'm also taken in by him, you know, like in it. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, Marty, the character.

[C]

Oh, oh, oh, no. He's an asshole.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

There's no, there's no. That's. I mean, I don't know. Also I'm. I'm breathing air.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I feel like.

[B]

But there are many people who walked out of that movie and I, And I found younger viewers who are like, yeah, no, like, I don't want to

[C]

see a lot of young people. I don't like him. I don't like him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think that sometimes when people are voting the same way, they vote for Coda because, like, that made me feel something. Maybe this. I don't know, I can't really deal

[A]

with it, but isn't a good point.

[C]

Isn't this.

[B]

I can deal with it.

[C]

Like an aspect of the difference between the Academy in like 1994 and the Academy now, which is like in 1994, Timothee Chalamet might not have even gotten nominated because the performance was so difficult and. Or the character so difficult. The performance is great. Versus now where you've got, you know, in 94, the Academy would have been much more like American Born versus now we're like, you know, what did you say? At 60, 40 non American American.

[A]

Oh, in the Academy. Yeah, it's in that range. Yeah.

[C]

I just feel like 70 other people's cinemas have a much higher tolerance for the, for the Marty. For the, for the Marty mouth.

[A]

People love this shit. Yeah.

[C]

So I don't know, I just feel like everybody else is not as like four.

[A]

This is Thursday. That's what I was going to say. Is the same case that you can make for Wagner Mora is the case you can make for shallow.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is like, this is a movie that the international voters are not going to be like, oh, this isn't for me. You know, it's not. That being said, it is a very American story.

[C]

Also, Anora won last year. I don't know. I feel like. I feel like he's still likely to win, but there's something about. There was something about. I know that you're also. It's Important to remember what you've already said. Which is it? Like, what is it you said 1% overlap, 5% overlap.

[A]

I don't know what the total number is, but I think it's less than 5% of SAG as academy voting members.

[C]

But I do for whatever. To the extent that, like, whoever was aware of what happened last night and got to watch it and hear what happened in the room, wouldn't you love. Wouldn't you love a little bit of that?

[A]

I think that was a big moment for the race, and voting is open until Friday.

[C]

It just felt like, I mean, again, every time. I don't know what is going on with me and Michael B. Jordan right now, but, like, just, like, he's making me cry. Like, I just feel like. And sometimes, you know, the other thing about him as an actor is he's so recessive. Right. There are so many movies you watch him in and you're like, come on, buddy, give it to me.

[A]

But as a star, though, as a star, he does remind me a little bit of Leo insofar as he's, like, kind of out of the limelight. Doesn't really do a lot, doesn't give a ton of interviews, Kind of just, like, sticks to his projects and does his thing. He's not like a massive celebrity in the same way that somebody like Chalamet right now feels like a force of nature culturally.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And there is a distinction there. And I wonder if maybe there's something considered, like, more honorable about that for mbj.

[C]

I also think, like, there's. I think one thing that might be working against him here is he is still pound for pound, a bigger star than Timothy Chalamet. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like, when he comes part of more bigger movies. Yes.

[C]

Right. And some of those movies people went

[B]

to because it's close.

[A]

The Dune movies kind of leveled the playing field there.

[C]

I'm not. I. I retract that statement, but, I mean, he is at least inarguably a movie star, right?

[A]

Totally.

[C]

And the thing about the thing that was so exciting about Sinners was, you know, I mean, when. When Van and Bill and I talked about that show on the Rewatchables, the question, the who won the movie question, like, hands down, who won the movie was Ryan Coogler.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

The reason I went back to the performance was I wanted to know what I had missed. I do this. The acting thing I do every year where I find a bunch of things I like about performances. I didn't include him in it, and I just was Like, I'm very curious to see what is. Once he got nominated, I was like, okay, I really. I just want to see what. I'm not because the Academy was right, but just because I was so happy for him.

[A]

And, well, there's something off the bat, which is that he's playing twins. And so that is. He's giving two performances.

[C]

But there's the accent. The twins are, as it turns out, not as mutually discernible as maybe a different actor would have made them.

[A]

I agree. But I do think he is putting a character in both of those men that you can tell in the performance side. I would.

[C]

What I was about to say, vocal

[A]

intonation, the posture, like, they're different.

[C]

They are different. But it is so subtle. But it is so satisfying to leave that movie and be able to tell smoke from stack because Michael B. Jordan figured out what the difference was between these two guys.

[A]

I agree. And I think a win like this kind of like, pulls out that conversation. It lets you say, like, okay, what is good about this performance? And then actually talk about it in a nuts and bolts way that I think is interesting. And. And we'll see what happens. If you're going with mbj, male actor in a supporting role. Sean Penn won again. He did not show up again.

[C]

Where did this come from?

[B]

It's Los Angeles. I've been telling Weird town.

[A]

I've been telling you.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, out of all the things you. Where are your. I mean, look, this is a great performance, but let's just talk about, like, I don't know, it just.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, I agree with you.

[C]

Of these five guys,

[A]

See your least favorite.

[C]

I'm sitting here being like, actually, you know what? But I mean, at sag, it was

[A]

Benicio, Jacob Elordi, Miles Caton and Delroy Lindo were the other nominees. Sean Penn won a bafta. Everybody was like, oh, my goodness. And now this feels like confirmation that he's gonna win. However, Stellan Skarsgrd.

[B]

Yeah, he's Skarsgrd.

[C]

There's no way he's losing this Oscar.

[A]

I do think that Sean Penn is basically trying to throw it. He already has two. He is not going to any events that he doesn't have to. He did not give a speech last night. He did not give a speech at bafta.

[C]

Was he there last night?

[A]

He was not there.

[B]

I was not there. He was at the Golden Globes.

[A]

He was the only winner who did not give a speech. He was at the Golden Globes, but he didn't win. And this has been A weird race, too. Skarsgrd won the globe in the LA Film Critics Circle. Elordi won the CCAs. Benicio won the New York Film Critics Circle. Delroy Lindo hasn't won anything, but he did give the last speech of the night last night for best on stage.

[C]

I was just about to say. Yeah.

[A]

And he's nominated. And he's the kind of person who wins surprise Academy Awards.

[C]

Well, can I tell you my crazy. Like I'm gonna.

[B]

But sit forward.

[C]

Sorry.

[B]

Lean in.

[C]

I'm usually gonna. I usually have an Oscar dream.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Like a dream the night before or one that you hold onto for months?

[C]

A couple nights before the Oscars, I have a dream. They never come true. I had a dream that Sean Penn was gonna get nominated for something that he didn't get nominated for. Like, this is like a weird. It was like, I'm not rooting for Sean Penn. It's just like. It was a dream. Oh, Carlito's Way. This is like when I was. I had a Carlito's Way dream and it didn't happen. I think there's a world because you. I mean, it's just worth remembering that Sinners has. Is it? How many? 14 nominations. 16 nominations. I just think there's a world where, like, there's a world where it kind of wins many of them.

[A]

We said.

[B]

I think so. Yeah.

[A]

We're gonna know probably pretty early in the night if there's a weird Sinners wins nine Academy Awards thing happening. Because one Mi Masaku could win and we'll get to the.

[C]

And that could still happen. That could still happen.

[A]

And if Delroy Lindo wins, then I'm

[B]

gonna be like, this is happening.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That will show an incredible sign of strength.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't think that's going to happen.

[C]

I don't. I don't think.

[A]

I think Sean, Hannah and Skarsgard are stronger in this race significantly.

[C]

Personally being prepared for the possibility that everything just gets thrown out the window.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This movie.

[A]

It's really funny that he just didn't go like. Presumably just because he was like, I don't want to.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Also, he'd never won SAG before, which is interesting. He's a two time Academy Award winner who'd never won a sag. A SAG prize. Let's talk about female actor in a supporting role. Amy Madigan won.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And if Michael B. Jordan had not won, she easily would have given the best speech of the night. She was incredibly charming.

[C]

It was a wonderful speech.

[B]

She ran up to the stage, doing the weapons. Kid's arms.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is amazing.

[A]

She was the one who marked upon the statuette and the way that its anatomy and its relationship to Ken. When she was playing with her Barbies as a kid, she was just bringing a lot of. Chicago gal born in the 20th century. Really talked a lot about her union and what SAG means to her and her being a union person. And she's very similar to Delroy Lindo, you know, just like in the holiday.

[B]

Holiday.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The person who's been around for a long time and has never won anything.

[A]

Yes. And everybody likes her and everybody thinks she's good at what she does. And she's been given a very showy part and a villain and villains win a lot in supporting categories and she's a really great villain. That's a very memorable character.

[C]

You know, part of me is just mad that Austin Abrams.

[A]

We'll get to here.

[C]

Has completely been overshadowed by how good she is in this movie.

[A]

He will be the star of Zach Cracker's next movie, the Resident Evil. Austin Abrams.

[C]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Anyway, I, I, I'm happy for her. I think this race is still a crapshoot.

[B]

I do as well. I think she's too. And I think she's too American. I don't think the international voters care about Field of Dreams.

[C]

Well, you know, here's.

[B]

I really don't. I like that's because when you see her, don't you see her giving the speech at the PTA meeting? I still do.

[C]

Oh, that's the funny thing that you think about. You know, I've been like, keeping track. Oh, here is a great little.

[A]

Is it about Catcher in the Rye? What is it? What is the book that she's talking about that's being banned?

[C]

I think it's, I think it's Catcher in the Rye.

[A]

Those were the days.

[B]

I know.

[C]

I'm keeping track of people who slide in movies. Movie sliding.

[A]

What do you mean by that?

[C]

Like, there's a moment that comes out of that hearing in Field of Dreams or that, you know, that I don't even know what's happening there.

[A]

It's like a.

[C]

But I have a very clear memory of her, like, blasting out of that door and sliding across the hallway. I'm like, Amy Madigan. I am proud to say you have made the sliding in Motion Pictures list. So anybody who's got some slide, all the obvious people have been accounted for. But just if you've got some, like, side door sliders, let me know.

[A]

That's A good one. Interesting data point. If Amy Madigan wins, she would become the ninth person to win Best Supporting Actress as her film's sole nomination. Can you think of anyone. Amanda's looking at the list. Can you think of anyone for whom that applies? This goes back to 1941. Nine times this has happened.

[C]

Mira Sorvino.

[A]

No.

[C]

Was he nominated for screenplay?

[A]

I think screenplay was nominated, yes. For Mighty Africa.

[C]

This is for the winner, right?

[A]

For the winner.

[C]

Oh, man, I love this.

[A]

These are great games. This is my calling.

[B]

You got to stop putting it in the dock.

[A]

I'm sorry.

[B]

So that I can play along.

[A]

I know, I know.

[C]

Hold on.

[A]

I gave you the trial of Chicago 7:1. That was a good trivia question. You're going to get 10 seconds here.

[C]

For the sake of podcasting, that's wrong, too.

[A]

There's one very, very famous one in the last 30 years.

[B]

Wait, did you just. He said Marisa Tomei, didn't he?

[A]

No, he didn't.

[B]

Oh, he didn't. Oh, sorry. What did you say?

[C]

That's a great one. I don't even know what I said, but it was wrong.

[A]

You said Mira Sorvino.

[B]

Oh, Mira Sorvino.

[C]

Okay, sorry.

[A]

A different Italian American actress.

[C]

Marisa Tomei is great. Okay. Give me a year.

[A]

I'll give you a recent one. 2008.

[B]

This one's funny.

[A]

Same filmmaker as Mighty Aphrodite.

[C]

Penelope Cruz.

[B]

Yeah. Huh.

[A]

For Vicky Cristina Barcelona. In order in history, Mary astor won in 41 for the great Lie. Claire Trevor won for key Largo in 1948.

[C]

That's the only nomination that Key Largo got won.

[A]

That was my thought, too.

[C]

That was how heavy the hitters were.

[A]

Yes. Margaret Rutherford won for the VIPs in 63, a Burton and Taylor joint. Goldie Hawn, one for cactus flower. Gene Sachs's adaptation of Neil Simon's Cactus, Cactus Flower. Linda Hunt, one for the Year of Living Dangerous.

[C]

Wait, that was the only nomination for the movie? Because I thought about her. Okay, I did not know that was the only nomination.

[A]

Marisa Tomei.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And Angelina Jolie for Girl Interrupted, and then Penelope Cruz, of course, in 2008. So, anyway, this doesn't happen that often. It's extremely unusual, but it does have some precedent. If she does win, win. Still feel like that's in play. Also, Inga ib's daughter Lilias and your girl, Rachel Kemp, AKA Elle Fanning, were not nominated at sag, so they are also in the mix here. This is a very. And Teyana Taylor was the prohibitive favorite for a Couple of months.

[C]

Yeah. Wait, I'm sorry, hold the phone. We have this. We just wasted all this time doing this speculating and we've not just said Teyana Taylor is probably going to win.

[A]

I don't know. She lost BAFTA and she lost this, right?

[C]

Yeah, but they don't understand what this is. They don't know me.

[A]

Is more international.

[C]

I. Look, energy is energy. You know, these, these BAFTA voters, they fake it. They. They left the racism in the show. They had a chance to take it out. Yeah, like Tiana. I think Tiana's.

[A]

Who do you think? Well, you know what? Don't spoil your.

[C]

I don't have to decide yet.

[B]

I have 10 days. I feel like nine days.

[C]

I feel like Tiana Taylor is going to win. And I mean, if she loses to Amy Madigan, I'll be. I'll be very fine with that.

[A]

Okay. The last award that was not shown on the telegast for some godforsaken reason was stunt ensemble in a motion picture, which went to Mission Impossible, the Final Reckoning.

[C]

A good win, Good win.

[A]

The stunt work in that movie is amazing.

[C]

Who were the other nominees?

[A]

I don't remember. Before we move on from the actor awards, I wanted to talk about Harrison Ford.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Because Harrison Ford won the Lifetime Achievement award last night. Harrison Ford, a man who is extremely important to the three of us and.

[B]

And American movies.

[A]

Yes, and movies and America, to Wesley's point, about what shapes America and how we see ourselves.

[C]

I mean, think of. Does this man have a career? The same career that gives him a lifetime achievement award?

[B]

No.

[C]

No, he does not.

[A]

I don't. You know, I think of him in a similar way to the way that I think of Michael B. Jordan in that he has a fair. That's always a very smart manager of the kinds of parts that he took.

[C]

Harrison Ford is the much better analogy for Michael B. Jordan than what we're doing.

[A]

They're very similar to me, you know, Harrison Ford, Harrison Ford has limited range.

[C]

Harrison Ford, he's Harrison Ford, great star.

[A]

He's a very good actor and in the right hands can be.

[C]

Not a great line reader. But like with the right director, Mike Nichols understood, like Nichols was his coogler to me.

[A]

Wow, that's an interesting. I mean, you could make the case that George Lucas really understood Harrison Ford better than anybody and put him in a position to succeed more than anybody. But are those his best performances? I just said, I just saw the last trilogy of Star wars movies with my daughter over the weekend. And the performances he's giving in the Force Awakens and in the God Forsaken, the Rise of Skywalker are beautiful. And it's like it's an actor who's really figured out his instrument. That's a word that you hear all the time from actors. And he really has figured something out. Last night I had tears in my eyes watching him give a speech. You and I, the three of us are like nattering through the whole show. We're pausing all the time.

[B]

It took four hours to get back. No, I'm looking at my phone.

[A]

When Harrison Ford took the stage after Woody Harrelson introduced him, I was just locked in by his gravitas. What did you say?

[C]

Shouts to Woody Harrelson's. I don't know what that was. It's wedding toast of an introduction.

[A]

Yes,

[B]

they were paired in a way. You had the silliness and then Harrison Ford's surprisingly emotional speech.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He was in tears and talking not just about his career, but also like what acting can mean to the, to the world. And, you know, he talked about like, it didn't. It didn't happen for me right away. And I've appreciated the support of everyone in this room. It was really very lovely. A couple great jokes, including the kicker, which was. This is encouraging.

[A]

He also said he was the halfway point of his career.

[B]

Yeah. You know, so it's still like self aware in that kind of. And gruff somehow, like in a traditional Harrison Ford way, while still being like, way more sincere than I associate with his work generally. It was lovely.

[C]

I loved it. And the funny thing about it, he's got one of those. There's a kind of pitcher. I mean, even with the pitch clock now, there's a kind of pitcher who's still kind of like,

[A]

yeah, yeah, the Steve Traxel burning down.

[B]

He was on his own pace.

[C]

Did I get it? Did I get a text?

[A]

It felt like sitting with your grandfather telling a long story, but in a nice way. I loved that.

[C]

I love the silence. There's, you know, there's these pauses where he's just kind of like.

[B]

That was. That was a good Harrison Ford.

[C]

Here comes the thought.

[A]

That's how he is as an actor though too. You know, he really is. He's not a fast paced dialogue machine. He's somebody who cuts out, who leans into silences.

[C]

But this is the thing about him in the Star wars movies, which is the opposite.

[A]

It is. Right.

[C]

Like he understands that he's also in a Howard Hawks movie. Yeah, right.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

And the thing that's exciting about the transition. Temporary. I would love to see if anybody wanted to make a movie anymore about things like this. Give Michael B. Jordan one of those rat a tat tat scripts and see if he could do it.

[A]

Well, he's making the Thomas Crown Affair right now. Which.

[C]

That's not rat a tat tat. That's like unbutton another button.

[B]

It could be.

[A]

It could be.

[B]

But I. I enjoy that style of film.

[C]

Who's the lady in that movie, by the way?

[A]

It was going to be

[B]

Taylor Russell.

[A]

Taylor Russell.

[B]

Now is it Adria Arjona and Adria.

[A]

Adria. Arjun Arjona is the. Is the lead.

[C]

Who's that?

[B]

Very.

[A]

You need to very get involved with that.

[B]

No, she is.

[C]

Oh, her. She's a hitman.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

All right.

[C]

I can see that. I can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She has a lot of strong qualities.

[C]

She does, she does. I. I can definitely be. I buy that. I buy that. Okay. Yeah. Harrison Ford. We don't get a Harrison forward under

[B]

this and he doesn't have an Oscar.

[A]

He has one Oscar nomination for Witness and that's it. And what the fuck?

[C]

Well, I mean. Okay, stop. To me, what, what, what is missing from this? Because this is the thing about him and this is the thing about him and Michael B. Jordan. There's only one other Harrison Ford performance I can think of that probably should have been nominated and I'm surprised that it wasn't, which is because it was low hanging fruit. It was the, it was that.

[A]

It was that Mosquito Coast. No, but that's one that should have been nominated because it's very different for him. Very different energy.

[C]

Yeah, but it was too different.

[A]

That is a more fast talking part

[C]

about the line readings in Mosquito Coast. Too fast.

[A]

I like that. I think that's true to that character. That movie tells us a lot about where we are.

[C]

That was a hard year for a person like that to get in to the lineup.

[A]

It was. Okay, so my case for this is very Mosquito Coast. No, no, no. It is very simple that there was an opportunity to give him this win for Star wars, the Force Awakens.

[C]

This is what I'm saying. This is the only other year. This was the only other performance I can think of.

[B]

Excuse me. Excuse me. They nominated every single actress and working girl. They can't find one supporting actor for your boy.

[A]

That's fair. That's also fair. It was.

[C]

No, I think there was some category confusion about this year though, where he went.

[A]

This to me doesn't totally make sense and maybe it's because he doesn't want to campaign or whatever. But Stallone was nominated for Creed that year and it's the same performance. And Ford is better, in my opinion.

[C]

Ford is better. Give it up.

[A]

That is the thing.

[B]

He's better.

[A]

Of course, Mark Rheinlance went on to win for Bridge of Spies, so it's moot. But if Harrison Ford was there and we looked at it and we were like, Harrison Ford is 74 years old. Are we really not going to give him an Academy Award before he dies? And now he's going to get some honorary award and it's going to be like whatever it is in the next five years, but it doesn't count. And I think you can go through the list. I think Working Girl is a good case.

[C]

You know, Working Girl, it's just tricky. He falls between the cracks of the two categories. I think if it were.

[A]

If this. If it were 2026 and Blade Runner came out, he would have been nominated for Rick Deckard. That's. Things are different now. Where movies like that get more respect than they got back then. And the Fugitive.

[C]

Oh, the Fugitive. Oh, I forgot about the Fugitive.

[A]

That's crazy.

[C]

All right, that's fine. But like, Tommy Jones was. No, no, no, no, no, no. 1993, remember? Like who all. Daniel Day Lewis, Anthony Hopkins.

[A]

This is a good poll from you. Keep going.

[C]

This is like, who else? 93. Daniel Day Lewis, Anthony Hopkins, very famous win here. The first of Tom Hanks.

[A]

Tom Hanks for Philadelphia.

[B]

That's Schindler's List.

[A]

Yes. Liam Neeson. Liam Neeson.

[C]

And

[A]

L.

[C]

L. It begins with an

[A]

L. Yeah, this is a good nomination. 93, Lawrence Fishburne. What's love got? Oh, what's love got to do with it?

[C]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

Okay, obviously, Tom Hanks wins, so. Yeah, he didn't get it.

[C]

I mean, that.

[A]

I kind of get that it's a tough battle. I kind of get that it's a really tough battle.

[C]

I kind of get that. I understand.

[A]

You know who I would take out out of that? Almost certainly six Daniel Day Lewis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In the name of the Father. I like it. Irishman.

[C]

Myself, my friend Charlie. To say in the name of the faller.

[A]

Okay. Shout out to Harrison Ford. You're the best. Well, let's take a quick break and then we're going to do the Alternative Academy Awards. This episode is brought to you by Warby Parker. Buying glasses can be so tricky. I myself, even though I'm not wearing them right now, am a glasses wearer. I have had to buy glasses many times in the past. What style do you choose? Gosh, it sure seems expensive. This is why Warby Parker is great. Their virtual try on is a total game changer. And when it comes to price, Warby Parker gives you quality and better looking prescription eyewear at a fraction of the going price. Our listeners get 15% off plus free shipping when they buy two or more pairs of prescription glasses at warbyparker.com BigPicture after you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. Okay, we're back. The alternative Oscars. This is the sixth time that we've done this. You were not here last year. I and that was just painful.

[C]

I was here.

[A]

You were. Thank you. Thank you for listening. The rules very quickly. There are not very many rules for this, this award show.

[C]

Although you did get new when I. I just something I hadn't considered before when I put some stuff in.

[A]

Okay. So but you should say this because

[C]

I think it's worth saying no Oscar

[A]

nominees are represented here. So if an actor or a writer or a director has been nominated for an academy award, they cannot be represented here. You're out. There are six nominees per category, as per, I guess the critics choice awards. I don't know, it just makes it easier to say more names and celebrate more stuff. These are eight categories that we believe that the academy awards should add and then some of your classical categories that we will talk through. We used to do nine and one of those was best casting and the academy awards added best casting and we're so. Thank you very much, Academy awards. We also have best stunt in this award show and in two years, I think it's two years. The academy will also add that you do have a nomination for a new addition to our awards slate. So we'll talk about that when we get there. Little surprise, little Amanda surprise. How are you guys feeling? Do you feel ready for this?

[C]

I feel great.

[A]

Yeah, I feel great. One thing that we talked about last night is I try to not have too many Oscar represented films throughout this list. Now in some cases it's hard because you feel like something got really snubbed.

[C]

I usually try to use this as a rectifier but that's probably the wrong way to be thinking of it.

[A]

No, I think a good balance between these movies never had a chance at an Oscar and these movies were close but they didn't quite make it. And so we're gonna try to find a blend between the two. Did you enjoy this exercise this year, both of you guys?

[C]

Well, things are definitely changing. And you can see it just in terms of, like, once I got into the document, I was like, I don't even. I don't have. I have very little to add that isn't, like, fun or surprising. I got a couple in there, but, like, very little, because you guys covered it very well. But also just the diminishment of the pool. Right. It's clearly. It's not quite everybody who should have been nominated was nominated for an Academy Award, but it's not so far away from that. The way it. Once we. If. If we did this, you know what a great exercise would have been or, like, can be done in the future. Let's just pretend it's like 1998, and then we play this game. What do you get with these kinds now?

[A]

Would we have said, here's what we think should have been nominated, including nominated films?

[C]

Let's just. Let's just. What's not. What has not been nominated and what. How would these categories fill out and what would be in them?

[A]

I felt like there was just a lot more worthy. You would need to double it back

[C]

then, feel good about yourself. Like, what are we even doing here? But this is like. I don't know. I don't think anything's been left out if we didn't. If. Unless it was absolutely loathed by.

[B]

Do you attribute that to the fact that the Oscars are getting closer to our taste or just that there are less good things?

[C]

That's a great question. I think it's the Polish. We're talking about a quantity problem. There's less there. Also, I think that I have deduced and I don't know. We've never talked about this, and I've never heard you guys. I don't. I've never caught you guys saying this or thinking it through. You might also accept it as almost axiomatic at this point, but Cannes is the most important film festival in the world right now.

[A]

It is.

[C]

And so the alignment of that festival and the people who tend to. Well, everybody goes. But in terms of, like, where that. Where can. Is. A lot of that energy has sort of been drawn into the Academy. Right.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

So it isn't. It is the sort of. The parameters of taste have changed for the voting body or like, its expression of its taste has changed. But I also think that if we're talking about great movies, and I think now more than ever with the change in the Academy membership, like, great movie making is Maybe the most important, like a. Like it's important.

[A]

I know what you mean, and I think I agree with you.

[C]

Than it used to be.

[A]

I think because the Hollywood slates have been hollowed out in terms of the kind of movies we historically define, there's

[C]

not even an argument you can make to the contrary.

[A]

But we talked about this when Best Picture was announced, that it's a nice little potpourri of all the relevant premier places. Right. You had Begonia and Frankenstein in Venice. You had F1 and one battle in Sinners Nowhere. You had Sentimental Value and the Secret Agent at Cannes. You had Train Dreams at Sundance. You had Marty supreme at the New York Film Festival, and you had Hamnet at Telluride. So you had this like international film festivals, American film festivals, blockbusters awards, movies that don't have a festival premiere. So there's still. This just feels like a very robust and coherent award slate to me this year. And obviously these two movies have emerged as behemoths, but it did make this exercise for me a little more challenging. In the past, I have found it to be much easier, even during COVID to be like, nobody was ever thinking about this movie for the Oscars, but I think it's great.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And, you know, my top five for the year is like a lot of Oscar movies. Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So that is a little disorienting when

[C]

you're kind of like your taste is. For years and years and years and years has been not opposed to the Academy because, you know, the thing that you. That I love, that I have loved my whole life about the Academy Awards is it's just another taste zone that. That. That speaks to and appeals to me. But now that I could make a 10 best list and, you know, six of those movies could wind up as best picture nominees is really telling me that I have not changed. This voting body has changed.

[A]

I wonder.

[B]

Or is it just that we're old?

[A]

This is like a. Amanda and I are on an elder millennial journey together as we go into the middle of our life where we getting older, we are establishmentarian now. Like, we're like one battle should win. And it's like. So you're rooting for, like, the leading contender from a major studio feels yucky. It's just weird.

[C]

That's not. That's not your change. That's an industrial concern. And the, like, the. How do I put.

[A]

But how would that be different from, like, Schindler's List being the favorite in 1953?

[C]

I mean, listen, with all due respect to Our Lord and savior, Steven Spielberg. If it's 1993, it's Jurassic Park.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

Although interestingly, Amanda Dinosaurs. This is an interesting. But think about the dichotomy that we're about to talk about.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like this man made. I mean, had. I mean, maybe the greatest year any director, any American director has ever had in 1993. But if I'm making my list, those five best picture nominees, maybe one of them is on my 10 best list.

[A]

That's a good exercise. We don't have time for.

[C]

You know what I mean? Like, I do think that I. It's just different now. There's no world in which I'm not putting one battle after another or sinners or sentimental value or Marty Supreme.

[A]

I'm with you. I feel the same way.

[C]

Or a secret agent. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Like six of my top seven favorite movies of the year are nominated for best Picture.

[B]

It's not.

[C]

It just means that they're the like no.

[A]

5 of my top 7 few. I'm not that much of a normal.

[C]

I just think that the pool has changed. The studios are much more interested in having just one thing to take to the Academy Awards as opposed to figuring out which of our little girls is going to go to the prom. Right. I mean, I think that that's what happened to weapons in a weird way.

[A]

How was it?

[B]

Great.

[A]

Through both years?

[B]

Three years. I went as a sophomore as well. What's up, Jim Hobart? I know you're watching.

[A]

Wow, that's huge.

[C]

Yeah. Jim Hobart is really watching.

[B]

Yeah. He was like my best friend. We're still in touch. Yeah. And so he took me when I was a sophomore.

[A]

Wouldn't that Jim Lovely man? I think they meet him at your wedding.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Isn't that nice?

[C]

Hi, Jim. Yeah, that's nice. I just don't. I think that things are different and I'll have to really think about how to articulate what I feel is a real difference. But I definitely think you saw it last year where every single one of those movies would have been a different kind of movie, including a Nora, which would never have gotten anywhere near the. The best Picture Oscar but would have been like in a five picture year, the. The fifth movie.

[A]

Right. And we did talk about that a lot last year. We were like, this is bananas town. That this is what the Academy Awards is now. I like Anora a lot, but I'm like, since when is this the best

[C]

picture is this movie that would have been like, let's just sort of setting Aside how anybody actually feels about these movies, that would have been the critics favorite movie.

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

And it would have gotten no Best Picture.

[A]

Totally. Yes.

[C]

And everybody would have been like, see, the Academy sucks. Because all John Baker got even the Best Original Screenplay nomination.

[B]

Even winning the Palm and then. And being like, accepted. Yeah. Good luck. Big in France.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, David Cronin, like, there's a number of directors who've really missed their chance with this like, like constriction.

[A]

They built up kind of cinephilia over years that is leading us to this.

[C]

They've helped. Right. Oh, that's interesting. David Cronenberg crawled so I could walk.

[A]

I mean, Sean Baker could for sure. For people like that who are like, I'm cutting edge and I'm putting things that make you uncomfortable in front of you, but I also find containers to make it contemporarily enjoyable. One battle and Sinners are the same thing, you know, I mean, a lot of sex in Sinners.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of like obscure fascistic violence in one battle, you know, like.

[C]

And sex.

[A]

And sex. Those are. Those things are all. Anyway, let's get into the categories. So we all chipped in on each category. The first category that we always talk about is best first feature. I strongly feel this should be at the Academy Awards.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yes. This to me could do so much more work than what the shorts do. I know that there are a lot of defenders of the shorts.

[C]

I know that people love the shorts here to get those emails. I don't have strong enough feelings about it.

[A]

We've never cared about the shorts.

[B]

It should be a separate program. And I think first feature is a better way to bring in what the shorts are trying to do and less easier to buy. I mean, the shorts are just like, I don't know, did you find a fancy rich person or, you know, Netflix to program your short? It's silly.

[C]

I. I understand that. I have no argument against it. And it's very sad.

[B]

Or it's a New Yorker. What the hell?

[A]

Once again, what guys can win an Oscars?

[B]

You won enough. Okay, wait, what?

[C]

Wow. That is really.

[A]

I just every year support our journalistic institutions. You know, Wesley works at the New York Times.

[B]

I. I am a subscriber to both. Frequently a nominee of the Academy Awards paying subscriber. That's true. You guys do it. But it's like, it is a little bit of a joke now. I log on and there are like three New Yorker shorts nominated.

[C]

But I mean, think about, wow, how about this? I mean, I'm not. I'm really truly neutral here. But, like, what about the idea, to your point about having this? You guys kind of just like, seduced me into thinking about, like, a Best First Film Oscar.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is this, by the way, are people talking about doing this? Is this on the table?

[A]

No, but I'm gonna keep stamping my feet just like I did for DJs. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think that there is a place you now know you can go if you're a New Yorker subscriber, to see short filmmaking somewhat reliably. And I think that that is. I'm not some value in that.

[A]

I'm not opposed to that.

[C]

I'm not like.

[B]

I. I will say the fact that these nominees are now available to watch on the New Yorker, huge. The fact that there are some shorts that are not available in any way. I mean, you can go to the movie theater.

[A]

I agree. This is an issue.

[B]

We have the Internet. This is a Make things available.

[A]

This is a commercial awards show.

[C]

They do package them. You know, for years I was doing this. You could go to the theater.

[A]

Yes, but it's not in every city. It's a tricky thing. I'm not trying to denigrate shorts. I just think that this is a better representation of emerging filmmakers in the marketplace because they've made a feature.

[C]

I like this. Also thinking about the number of people who could have an Academy Award right now. Just.

[A]

It would change. And that's one of the reasons why I think maybe they won't do it is because, like, maybe Chris Nolan wins from Memento, so you don't feel as strongly that he needs to win for blah, blah, blah. So, anyway, let's just do this category. Here are the nominees.

[B]

No, that presupposes. And at some point we should do like, a postmortem on the Oscar snubs.

[A]

Following.

[C]

Would he have won for following?

[A]

Oh, following. Not Memento. Thank you. You're right. Following is.

[B]

And how you and Katie Rich especially feel that people can only have one Oscar.

[A]

No.

[C]

What?

[B]

They were doing a lot of Oscar history.

[A]

No, this is not what I said. What we were saying in those exercises that we were doing, which revealed a lot, that that clip taking off was the least surprising thing of all time.

[C]

When I was setting the thing, it never reached me.

[A]

You can look at it afterwards. But the thing is that the Academy, frequently, it's on Instagram. There's a rare class of people that get more than one. And a lot of times when someone gets one, they're like, you're good. You got One. Now, sometimes you get a Denzel or John Ford and they're like, Meryl Streep, Jack Nicholson, Sean Penn. We got to keep giving you these things because you are in the elite class. But it's very rare. And so you use that as a way to say, like, okay, we. If we could just get Pacino his Oscar in the 70s. We don't have to pretend like he's doing his best work in the 90s, because he's not. But in the 70s, he was the greatest actor on earth.

[C]

And it also hurts him in this phase of his career, too, because. Yes.

[A]

Yeah. A second one would have been better for the Irishman than it would have been for Son of a woman.

[C]

100%.

[A]

Anyway, I believe that.

[C]

I believe that. But I. But I mean, let. Let them have as many Oscars.

[B]

I agree. Of course.

[A]

I agree with that, too.

[C]

There's a lot of sound guys out there, like, I'm coming for Sean.

[A]

Yeah. Like Dennis Mirin, the visual effects. What are we doing? Artist who has eight Academy Awards. Like, some people win a lot, some people don't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Best first feature, Ava Victor for Sorry Baby. Carson Lund for eis, Harry Lyon for Pillion, Lawrence Lamont for One of Them Days, Alex Russell for Lurker, and Akanola Davies Jr. For my father's Shadow. Gut Reaction. Who deserves this prize?

[C]

One of Them Days. I love that movie so much.

[B]

I really deserve this.

[A]

Did you add this or did you have this? You had this.

[C]

What an achievement. Go.

[B]

No, well, I was just saying one of them Days will be getting another award or I will walk out of this room. So in the next category, I'm gonna

[C]

keep you right here.

[B]

Okay, thank you. Yeah. In the next category.

[A]

Well, then if you think that's the case, then I don't want to give it to Lawrence.

[B]

Yes. Again. Once again, our bias over here just won Oscar Spread the love.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

That is sort of the exercise of the alternative Oscars, AKA the big pics.

[C]

Well, let's talk about pillion, then.

[B]

I would like to talk about pillion.

[A]

That is where I lean as well.

[C]

Can I say something really controversial? You don't like it? Another Lord and savior situation here. I don't like. Sorry. Julia Ross.

[A]

Sorry, Baby. Really interesting.

[B]

What is it? That doesn't. It's okay.

[C]

Anytime that. What is that actor's name? Naomi Aoki.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

When she's not there.

[A]

Naomi Aki.

[C]

Naomi Aki. Like, when she's gone. I don't. Nothing about this interests interesting Lucas Hedges when he's like I just did not like that character as written, directed, or acted.

[A]

It's been interesting because I just didn't. I had Ava on the show.

[C]

I just didn't feel.

[A]

I've seen Ava around a lot in the awards season, and they're different from that character. Obviously, that character is very personal to Ava Victor, and. And they've talked about that. But A.V. victor's very fun and very funny, and the movie is very intense and very internal. And we talked about the jury scene.

[B]

I was gonna say the jury scene is very emotional, but it is funny, too, in a way. It is. And that, to me, is the. I agree. That Miyake character and that. That friendship is a very beautiful thing that I have.

[C]

Like, I love the friendship. I love the friendship.

[B]

But when and when Lucas Hedges shows up, you're just like, oh, Lucas Hedges, it's really nice to see you.

[A]

It's been five years since we've seen you.

[C]

Where you been? My favorite actor. Wonderful period.

[B]

So it has a lot of delights. And I think about that the jury scene. Both the questionnaire that filling out, which is really funny and, like. But, you know, funny and observant, and I. And then the. Like, that I can't really answer this question or blah, blah, blah, or. That whole speech is amazing.

[A]

It's very well performed. But I think it's really, really well written. To me, this is, like, a feat of the screenplay, ultimately. And I think that's why Ava Victor's been getting a lot of screenplay.

[B]

Let's talk about fillion.

[C]

Okay. I think this is a movie that should never have worked. And it is just a marvelous contraption. I just. I loved falling in love with this movie because I was really resistant to it. But just. I mean, just. It was one of those movies the minute it ended. Because it's got a nice sandwich structure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And the minute it ended, I instantly understood why everything that happened in the first five. It's rare to feel this. It's like when you read a book. In the first book, you either loved or wanted to understand how it was built. You get to the last page, and a lot of the times go right

[A]

back to the beginning.

[C]

I'll go immediately back to the beginning and read the first 50 pages.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like that. This was one of those movies where if I could have the time to go back and just watch it over again from the beginning, I would have. But I remember the first 10 minutes so clearly. And I understand that that's his family now. Right. And there's a clear dynamic going on here in the Glee Club barbershop quartet. Anyway, this is such a well written, well directed, well acted, truly emotionally surprising movie, and none of it should work.

[A]

This would be my pick.

[B]

Might as well.

[C]

Even the choreography of their bodies in those, like, sex scenes.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Are just. How did they do that? How did they do it?

[B]

Magical.

[C]

It's just so. It's so, so good. Harry Melling. I just. I don't know. I don't know this guy. I mean, I know his face from the movies, obviously from the Harry Potter movies. But, like, what a. What a brave, tender, fully understood thing to do. Like, he understands what he's doing. I mean, so does Skarsgrd. But also the mother in this. I don't know just every single thing about this movie. The way the father operates when they're

[B]

driving around at the end. I know. And that's. And this scene. The day off. The whole day off and the acting and the day off.

[A]

Skarsgrd just turning on the other switch and him just completely shifting his head. Performance at the end of the movie

[B]

is the women sitting on the bench, you know, like, everybody. They were so great. It's so.

[A]

If you haven't seen Pillion, go see Pillion. It's a terrific movie.

[C]

What a surprise.

[A]

Okay. Pillion wins.

[C]

Was that a Sundance movie?

[A]

It was Cannes.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Breakthrough performance. This would be a little harder to add at the Academy Awards because what. Who can break through and how.

[B]

You know, we have best new artists.

[C]

Oh, wait, so.

[A]

Which is a joke of a category at Grammys, but yeah. Yes. Okay. The nominees for breakthrough performance are. Sza. One of them Days. Guillaume Marbek, Nouvelle Vogue. Jack Quaid and Sophie Thatcher for Companion. Frank Delane for Urchin, Maryam Afshari from It Was Just an Accident. And Erin Kellyman for Eleanor the Great. Am I the only person who has seen Eleanor the Great?

[C]

No, I saw it.

[B]

I did not. I didn't circle back to that one.

[C]

I didn't love it.

[A]

I didn't love it either, but I like the actress.

[C]

That's a good choice.

[A]

She is the woman in the bone temple.

[B]

Oh, she's great.

[A]

She's really, really. I really have my eye on her. I think she's a really, really gifted. And I think Eleanor the Great is, like, real baggy and kind of a mess, but I like that.

[C]

That's inspiring.

[A]

That's inspiring. Okay, so you already. You showed your hand on who you want to win. Is there. Is there anything you want to say about any of these?

[B]

One of them days to Me, Jack

[A]

Quaid is not a breakthrough, but I like them together.

[B]

I put it together because this is our awards show and we can nominate two people at once or we can nominate one person for two performances. We are in charge.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

This is our day.

[A]

Yes. Thatcher got a lot of money on Thatcher. Need that to work. She's going to be in her private hell. Need that to work. Nicholas winning Griffin's next year.

[B]

There's something about Nouvelle.

[C]

Oh, he's back.

[A]

He's back. I can.

[C]

Apparently, he's back.

[B]

There's something about Nouvelle Vague, like cleaning up at the Cesars. The French Oscars.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

That makes me feel better about the Oscars, the America, like, everything. I'm like, well, it goes both ways.

[A]

No, you're so. That's so smart. Because we've earned.

[B]

We like an important, simplified, idealized version.

[A]

Linklater was the first non French person to win best director at the Cesars. That's interesting. That's all right.

[B]

Whatever, guys.

[A]

Guillaume Marbeck had never acted before, but it's. How is that possible?

[C]

This is what y' all get for the Artist. How about that? This is what y' all get if

[A]

we return the favor.

[C]

The Artist.

[B]

Revenge.

[A]

Yeah. This is a great category that should. That I would love to see someone figure out how to do well. SZA. I agree. Now. SZA.

[C]

A little bit of cheating.

[A]

Cause she got 10 years to figure out how to be, like, a famous, interesting person on camera.

[B]

I mean, I don't know. You go to that movie which you're like, so much more.

[A]

She's so good.

[C]

So much better. She didn't even need to be this good. Yeah, she didn't need to be this good.

[B]

It's incredible.

[A]

I mean, one of the only successful original movies that came out in 2024.

[C]

I mean, it's kind of shocking. You mean financially successful?

[A]

Financially successful, yeah.

[C]

I love this movie so much that it's great. I might burst into tears remembering how much I laughed at it. It is the first funniest movie. It is also one of the great. I mean, just instantly. One of the great friendship movies. One of the great friendship movies. I mean, these two people, Keke Palmer plays the other friend.

[A]

They.

[C]

You just believe that they've never not known each other.

[A]

Yes. Yes.

[C]

Even if they just met the day before filming started. These two characters have been friends because these. You believe these two people have been friends for as long as the movie says. They've been friends because these two actors are selling the friendship. And SZA is so Funny playing a character.

[A]

Right?

[C]

She's not playing Sza.

[A]

She's a goofball in the movie.

[C]

She's just playing a dingbat who. Sometimes her clock is right, you know, I don't know. I love that movie.

[A]

This is why this award show exists exactly. To give Sza prize.

[C]

I mean, the. The getting the sneakers off the. Off the electricity pole, being stuck with that hair like that. I just.

[A]

I like the. The visit to the loan service. The loan service. So funny.

[B]

Put her in for cameo.

[C]

That actor is so. I just.

[A]

And also, Cat, when he's outside telling them not to go in that part. That movie is really funny.

[C]

Williams is right. I forgot about Cat Williams.

[A]

It's really. Cause I'm like, this movie was a hit, and yet not enough people have seen it. I think it's on Netflix right now, actually. But it's really good somewhere. Next category, Best Cameo. I think this would be a fun award, actually, because there is an arc to this, to showing up in a movie for five minutes or less and doing a good job. The nominees we have here are Bad Bunny for Happy Gilmore 2, Connor O' Malley for friendship. Sarah Michelle Gellar for I Know what yout Did Last Summer. Bradley Cooper for Superman. Tony Todd for Final Destination Bloodlines. And Tramell Tillman for Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning.

[C]

Ooh. I mean, this is loaded.

[A]

Category.

[C]

Wait, Sorry. Bradley Cooper plays Kal.

[A]

El. Jor. El.

[C]

Jor? El. Sorry. Jor?

[A]

El.

[C]

Sorry. I kind of loved that.

[A]

I laughed really hard when I saw it. Really?

[C]

That made me funny because I think he also knows that he's the one major actor that we've got who has not been entirely sucked in.

[A]

Well, he'll rock it, Raccoon. He did it in the smartest way.

[C]

I know. This is what I'm saying. Like, nobody thinks of him as being.

[A]

He got to enjoy all the fruits of that, but didn't have to be

[C]

in the tractor beam. I don't know. He's just so shrewd about what he chooses to do, and I feel like

[A]

he's very funny when it comes to cameos. He's done a bunch of these over the years.

[B]

He's verging into Matt Damon territory where he's like, sure, part of the joke is that Bradley Cooper.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But he doesn't have the baggage that Matt Damon gets to unpack every time he makes a cameo. Right. So it's just a different.

[A]

But it puts him in the lineage of Brando in a very funny way where it's like, if it was good enough for Brando. I can do this.

[C]

Exactly, exactly. Exactly. That's what made me laugh when I saw it.

[A]

It's clever. I like it.

[C]

The only thing I liked about that movie pretty much was that cameo.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

I didn't dislike. I didn't hate the movie. I just. It didn't look whatever buoyancy I wanted to experience when I left the theater. I didn't.

[A]

It won't come up again here in

[C]

the award shows, but I think it's. I'm going to go with Tony Todd.

[A]

Well, he passed away, and so that would be an honorable thing to do. He was the glue of the Final Destination franchise. I might want to spread some love for Final Destination bloodlines elsewhere. In this category or in another category. Do you want to make a case for Trammell Tillman?

[B]

I mean, just. You don't like it. Oh, come on. This.

[C]

They. They basically shoplifted his severance performance. And you don't watch severance.

[B]

Well, that's right. Yeah. I don't know what it is, so I don't care.

[C]

That guy. But listen, in a Mission Impossible, he's

[A]

got a little bit more like, stank on it, though. In Mission Impossible. Fair.

[C]

But still, it's the same.

[B]

I will say, just being on a plane.

[C]

I like Tramell Tillman, by the way,

[A]

don't get me wrong.

[B]

Shows up on, like, on someone else's screen in this movie, and I'm just like, oh, that part. Like, that's the best part.

[C]

He is magnetizing. I have seen people. I've seen him on people's airplane screens myself. And I'm like, yeah, exactly.

[B]

Like, there he is.

[A]

Out of your mind. This is a great line reading. Very memorable. Nobody made me laugh harder than Conor o' Malley in Friendship, where he was like, I think we should go back to Afghanistan.

[B]

I honestly.

[A]

That's good stuff. Died. So this is a tough one. Also, I gotta be honest. Smg. I really liked seeing her in the absolutely dreadful I Know what yout Did Last Summer reboot.

[C]

Yeah, I didn't see it.

[B]

Sarah Pigeon is now Carolyn Bessette Kennedy. Sarah Pigeon plays an.

[C]

Oh, I know what you did last summer.

[A]

Just so you know, that's who that is.

[B]

Yeah, I texted you this. You gotta.

[A]

I know. I gotta watch Love Story. Kya was telling me she's watching Love Story.

[C]

Is everybody watching Love Story?

[B]

Yeah, I'm not a. I think Eileen

[A]

and I need a show, so just something to watch together at this juncture in time.

[C]

Well, good luck. All right. I'm gonna Start watching it. You've. Is Juliette watching it?

[B]

No, but I'm telling her about it, and maybe she'll catch up if we ask her.

[C]

So you guys are talking about it?

[B]

Yeah, I'm doing my report. She does Grey's Anatomy reports and icu.

[A]

So we're three.

[C]

We're three in.

[B]

We might be five because they released the first three in wide. But it's Naomi.

[C]

Oh, it's Naomi.

[B]

Who's doing Jackie Kennedy.

[C]

This is why you watch it.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Who's winning? You want Tony Todd? Who do you want?

[B]

I'm actually.

[C]

I'm on the. We haven't even talked about Bad Bunny, who really did the funniest part of the movie. He stole that movie. The whole movie. It's his.

[B]

Yeah, I would be fine for that Bunny. I nominated Bad Bunny as Bunny.

[A]

Bad Bunny's the winner. What a year for bad bunny in 2026. Absolutely amazing. Now, I think it's been acclaimed. Jacoby Jupe in Hamnet. If this actually was at the Academy Awards, he would win in a walk. He's not represented in our awards here today. I think maybe just because Hamnet is dominating. Yes, yes. Here are the nominees. Everett Blunk for the Plague. Carrie Christopher for Weapons. Jonah Wren Phillips for Bring Her Back. He was the little demon boy. Alfie Williams for 28 years later. Lexi Venter for Don't let's Go to the Dogs Tonight. I just saw this movie yesterday. Really good performance. And Nina Ye for Left Handed Girl. There's a. I think there's a front runner in this category.

[B]

Alfie Williams.

[A]

No, I think it's Carrie Christopher.

[C]

Oh, Carrie Christopher. That's.

[A]

Yeah, he's the little boy in Weapons.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I love him.

[B]

Yeah, he's.

[C]

What a hard job. It's very Haley Joel Osment without the training. So there's kind of like an immediacy

[A]

to what it is, an unaffected performance.

[C]

Right. And also there's something about kids who have to perform fear. And I always wonder about the place they go to to find being scared. And is it harder? Is it easy? And I really, really.

[B]

And do they understand and what do they know?

[C]

Right. But I think the thing that I love about this performance, though, is that it, like, for the actor giving it. It's complete because, you know, it's all in the script. Right. I've been being bullied for years by these kids, and now all of a sudden they're gone. Like, did I do something? Did something happen? He's gotta be mad at the Julia Garner character. Like, there's just so many opportunities for him.

[A]

Having to work with Madigan, I think, is really also. You know, a lot of those table sequences are tricky because she's going very big and very scary. I like it a lot. I mean, I think that this is a really good slate in this category this year. It's not always as robust as it is. I do think Alfie Williams is terrific in 28 years later. You don't like him?

[C]

He's fine. I just didn't like the movie.

[A]

Okay. Did you see the Plague?

[C]

Not yet.

[A]

And neither of you have seen the Plague? Can you roll with Carrie? Christopher, you want to make any other case? Yeah.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

Best performance by an animal. There's only one nominee this year. Sorry Baby's gonna get that victory. The Cat. Cat.

[B]

And Sorry Baby, because we've not nominated the dog from Superman. I say no.

[A]

Astro.

[C]

The. The CGI dog.

[A]

Yeah. No CGI dogs are eligible. Yeah. I agree. It's not ideal.

[C]

Although I did. He was my. He was my second favorite part of the movie after. After Bradley Cooper showing up for 10 seconds. I will say, like, I did like the spirit of that movie in a lot of ways. It just didn't do anything remotely as interesting as it thought it was doing just by being in a good mood.

[A]

That's a very incisive Wesleyism. I think what Corenswet and Brosan have is good, and I want to see more of it. I think their chemistry is really good.

[C]

Then give me a whole movie of that.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

It kind of teases that movie. And then it takes it away from

[C]

that scene where they're having that ethics conversation in his living room. Or her. Whoever's living room. It is like, I wanted three more scenes of that.

[A]

It's very.

[C]

It's very Sorkin and a polish on the writing. Right. Because you just needed to keep going.

[A]

I think they're going to do more of it, I think. And I think Holt is good, too. I don't know. I like Superman. I really liked it. When it came out, I kind of faded a little bit. And I guess Supergirl's coming out in, like, three months, which is crazy. Okay, next category. Best Stunts, Action sequence. The nominees are the biplane finale of Mission Impossible, Final Reckoning, all the kids running around in weapons. Oh, actually the raid in Warfare. I don't know if you've seen. Have you seen Warfare?

[C]

No, I didn't see Warfare.

[A]

Okay. It's fucking amazing. The Causeway Chase in 28 years later,

[B]

which we know Wesley's not Voting for

[A]

the whole lot of love NASCAR race at the opening of F1.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

And very inspired choice. I assume by you. The how it's done intro in K Pop Demon Hunters when they're fighting on

[B]

the plane and then they get to the concert. Listen.

[A]

It's like a good one.

[C]

That's a good one. That's a good one.

[B]

Randomly in the car the other day, Zach was like, you know what's really good is this scene. We were listening to it. He was like, this scene in K Pop Demon Hunters, it's just like a stone cold opener to a movie that sets the scene.

[C]

I think we are. I mean, I at least missed a great piece of writing about K Pop Demon Hunters as a. As. Just as a movie. I came to it really, really late because I kind of misunderstood what was happening, happening. But I was like, I'm a weekly chart watcher and I'm like, Golden has been number one for like, oh, it's from that movie. So I watched it. I just couldn't believe how much fun it was. It's so fun. Anyway, the biplane is. What are we doing?

[B]

Yeah, I mean it is the biplane. It was a good.

[A]

It's not even like that movie is a mess, but that sequence is among the best things I've ever seen in a movie.

[B]

You can't even believe it a thousand percent.

[C]

They went for it. Nobody died. And Esai Morales versus Tom Cruise is a matchup. I never thought I would. That is like. Yeah, that is like the 34th ranked player versus number one.

[A]

Yes. Dude. I mean, but he's doing great Bond villains this time around. He's very entertaining.

[C]

I wish they had more to do. I wish they figured that character.

[B]

You know, I wish AI weren't involved. But that's just.

[A]

I know they like retconned the motivation for that character.

[B]

The like, AI is going to take over the world plot of the last two movies was really stupid.

[C]

Yeah, Yeah. I didn't. I. All right, fine. I give you yes. Well, no, but the first. The first half. You know, the first movie in this. In this. In this duplex. Every single thing in it to me is five stars.

[A]

See, I love. Good enough. The first half of. Of the last one or parts.

[C]

The whole movie of the. How do we talk about the one

[B]

with the Rome chase? Yeah, the Rome set piece. A.

[C]

The train bit at the end.

[B]

Rebecca Ferguson dying in Venice. I visit that bridge every time I go.

[A]

It's hard for me to talk about this because the last one broke my heart so deeply.

[C]

Yeah. I know, but anyway, the biplane sequence. There's no way.

[B]

Vanessa Kirby's very good. The AI in it is still silly, but that's all.

[C]

No, I Mean Esai Morales vs Tom Cruise in the air. Just come on. What are we doing?

[B]

This episode is brought to you by taxact. From opening credits to the final scene, taxact guides you through your taxes step by step with your maximum refund guaranteed. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. The Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book, your favorite hotel site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com Autograph journey terms apply. Okay, next category.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Best ending. Eddington, Final Destination, Bloodlines. I wanted to show a little love to it ends which was the film that you could rent on the letterboxd video store. Alexander Ulam's debut Begonia, Marty Supreme.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

It wrecked a couple people at the table.

[C]

Which one?

[B]

The one that we saw. Not the rumor.

[C]

The bassinet.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay, let's keep going.

[B]

And all the other babies.

[C]

What's next?

[A]

And Hammond it with nine question marks after it.

[C]

You put that in there.

[B]

Well, here's the thing. I have not been supportive because if

[C]

you're putting Hammond in there, I would throw the secret agents ending in there too.

[B]

I mean, sure, yeah, put it in.

[A]

I'm a little torn on this movie.

[B]

I don't have to.

[A]

These are very Oscar y movies.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Okay, then we don't have to.

[A]

But they all have interesting that are all like pretty audacious. I would say.

[C]

Can you talk to me? And I'm just gonna sit back about the Marty supreme ending.

[A]

It's one of the realest things I've ever seen.

[B]

I've just honestly extremely emotional matches one

[A]

to one with my experience as a new father. One to one.

[B]

I mean it doesn't for Me at all. Because an interesting thing, listening to Sean talk about like all the girl dad movies this year. Cause there's been a lot of dads and a lot of moms. We were talking about this last night and you said something in one episode I'll never forget, which was just like, this is what happens. You just like get handed a baby out of nowhere. Which is not what happened to me at all.

[A]

Right. Yeah. Men don't experience it in the same way.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But there is something about the. The end of the Marty supreme for really, for me is him winning the. The fake match and like. And the reaction on. On Chalamet's face where I like started crying the first time. And then it's everything else that happens in the scene beside him. It's the music cue, it's the way.

[C]

It's the sound in the very final scene.

[B]

Yes. In the very final scene he's at the hospital and he sees the baby and the Tears for Fears hits and you know. And you know the first line or I know the first line that's coming. It's the sound. Every other baby in that nursery is wailing throughout that entire scene. And the nurse is just there being like, whatever this is. Which I thought was so funny and well observed and also telling about what's coming. That baby. Incredible baby acting. We should have given the award to the baby because that baby gives the Marty character like a what is wrong with you?

[A]

Face that is so relatable to me in my experience of early first moment fatherhood where the baby is just like, fuck, man, this is not comfortable. I just got out here, it's cold as shit. I need somebody to clean me off. I need to be fed immediately. It wasn't like the heavens opened and a light shone down and that everything was going to be perfect from now on. But it was very clearly Marty realizing in 30 seconds that what's past is prologue and that everything going forward is completely different. And this three hour mania that we experienced is insignificant relative to what has happened in this exact moment. I thought like a great act of movie storytelling. I love. Absolutely.

[B]

And I felt the same thing, even if I wasn't like, yeah, this is exactly.

[A]

Yeah, I felt that way every time I watched Emotion.

[B]

And just kind of to me, he grows up. Like that's what it is to me. Like that is a coming of age movie and that's a person who's just like. And like, well, now I've grown up. And like whether I chose to and. And whether he will actually meet the moment. No idea. Probably not based on what we know, but that it's like, here you are, like, you know, wow, this is your life.

[C]

This is. Okay.

[A]

You teed us up for something we were very prepared to see.

[C]

I don't even. Let's keep going.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I'm gonna absorb that.

[A]

I just have to win this. Who should win this? The reason I wanted to hold off on Tony Todd is because the funniest thing ever is Final Destination Bloodlines ending with the logs and the train track explosion and all the characters dying, which was just, like, enormously satisfying. Like a great callback to the best moment in the history of the franchise. Everyone dying at the end, which is how all these movies should work. To me, when we talk about, like, oh, it ain't like it used to be, or we're talking about Oscar movies, it's also this. It's also just like, funny, mean, spirited

[C]

horror sequences, starting with the trailer. I'm like, okay, I'm watching this trailer through my.

[A]

I'm watching it like this with, like, the glass and the ice.

[C]

That movie's green. To the extent that I'm nostalgic for that. It definitely tapped something for me. And I'm like, these movies stress me all the way out, but I miss that stress, and I would like to experience it a little bit again. Okay, so once you get like,

[B]

that's fine. That's good.

[A]

I do think that the Eddington ending is extremely powerful as well.

[B]

I bet it. Every single time.

[A]

The image of the data center. Center.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The very last shot of the movie. I mean, I think also the final moments.

[C]

Oh, yeah. You know, is you.

[A]

You have an Eddington problem. We know this about you. Yeah. Or maybe it's already in problem. Yeah.

[C]

Well, it is interesting that, like, the traction for or against it, I guess. I mean, I don't know.

[A]

It's gone way forward in the last three months because of what the world looks like. There's a lot of, like, actually, this movie was too soft.

[C]

We missed something.

[A]

Well, it was just like, oh, you mean this movie is right.

[C]

Okay, wait, we were too soft in our enthusiasm for it or

[A]

I think the early chatter on it was too soon, and then the late chatter on it was not soon enough.

[C]

So he falls through a crack. That Paul Thomas Anderson kind of just like.

[A]

And, you know, one movie with, like, the most depressing, nihilistic ending imaginable and one battle after another of like, hey, my daughter's gonna go out and take care of the world. You know, like, two different energies.

[C]

Keep the fight going. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think that, like, if we're sticking to the five things that are six things that we have to work with, even listen. Having listened to the case you just made for Marty supreme, which I had never really heard expressed in such a spiritual and personal way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Many people are saying Amanda is spiritual.

[C]

Begonia's the only winner here.

[B]

I mean, I absolutely. I love Dakota.

[C]

Begonia's the only winner. Like, if you Even.

[B]

If you also.

[C]

Even if you hate this movie and you aren't sure because.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

This is an interesting thing to talk about.

[A]

Like,

[C]

I didn't think she was the alien.

[B]

I went back and forth the whole time, which was the.

[C]

I just didn't think she would. I just didn't believe it. And part of me feels like a dummy now because it's Emma Stone. She wasn't gonna take this part if she couldn't be the alien.

[B]

Do you know what I mean?

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

I also just feel like it's a

[A]

really good way of framing it.

[B]

I think the movie is so good at knowing that. Knowing that you think she is. Or you're going back and forth and is really playing with you and, like, gets you. It got me, too. I didn't think she was. Even when she went into the closet,

[C]

I was like, what's going on, Amanda?

[A]

Amanda.

[C]

I still. Even then I was like, no, man, he's just crazy. And she just, like, she. She's just playing along and then.

[B]

And then that scene.

[C]

They're just up there being aliens together. It is the funny. I mean, my job. I was bored for a lot of the movie, but, I mean.

[B]

But.

[C]

But bored in awe of her.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Like, Because, I mean, she really is.

[A]

She's a go right now.

[C]

It is. It is. I mean. I mean, I guess I've all. Look, we've all. I mean, you watch Easy A and you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That Emma Stone. You knew she was gonna be something, and the movies changed, and she still got to be some version of it. Anyway. She is, from the standpoint of everything that matters to a great screen actor, the best actor I think we have

[A]

right now and on this corner for a minute period. Totally agree. I just. I really like the material that she picks. I do think she needs a Yorgos break.

[C]

She needs a break. She needs a Yorgo. Because I think a lot of what has brought me to this feeling is this collaboration, and it's been great, but, I mean, can I just say. Hilarious. Would we be asking Michael B. To stop Working with Coogler.

[A]

No, but I think that's because we know that Coogler is. MBJ is always at his best with Coogler. And Emma Stone can be at her best with other people. And we want to see that, right?

[C]

I do, but I also want to know if he can bring some of the Coogler with him if he did another Just Mercy. Right.

[A]

We'll see. We're gonna find out.

[B]

No more lawyers.

[C]

That's fair. No, no, he's got it. No, no, no, you're right.

[B]

You know what?

[A]

Not even.

[B]

And this is an important note.

[A]

Lawyer. Daughter. Daughter.

[B]

This is an important note for Thomas Crown Affair as a student. Well, he's a thief.

[C]

He's.

[B]

No briefcases. He can be a lawyer. It's the briefcase. There was just. He. He is going up the stairs in Just Mercy. And it's the way he doesn't know what to do with the briefcase.

[A]

Guys, we gotta keep moving.

[B]

That's all it is.

[A]

We gotta keep moving.

[C]

Okay?

[A]

That's all it is. This is an important show. We gotta keep it on time. I feel like I've never felt closer to the people who manage ABC as I do right now. So I'll give it to Begonia. I don't give a fuck.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

Okay. Begonia Wins is the only prize. Begonia's winning today. Amanda, why don't you please read for us the next prize?

[B]

So I've added a new category called the Most Fun had by an Actor this year. My nominees are Javier Bardem, F1, Rosamund Pike. Now you see me, now you don't. Are you up on what's happening in that movie? She is playing a South African diamond princess with the full accent.

[A]

Okay. It's one of the best things that happened at the movies last year.

[B]

Yeah. Fuck Robert Pattinson. Mickey 17.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

And then you could also put Tramell Tillman in this category.

[A]

To me, it's Rosamund pike in a Walk.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm gonna watch this tomorrow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's an incredible plane movie.

[A]

Pretty much stinks. But honestly, she's really having a blast. Okay.

[C]

All right. That's good.

[A]

I didn't know she could be so camp.

[C]

I mean, she kind of had that in Saltburn. Right. She did the movie. Kind of let her. She did try to go there.

[A]

Yeah. That's like, the best part of that movie to me. And she's really funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You would never guess that.

[C]

Like, she and Carey Mulligan. I would watch an Ab Fab, like, parody movie with the two of Them doing that.

[A]

This is a great category. Why don't you read the next category? It's also important to you and I, so.

[B]

This is. This is so mean. The Glenn Close Memorial. It's Time Oscar, which, you know, we give to someone who's been trying so hard and just can't get there. And let's put everyone out of their misery. I have suggested that we give this award to Noah Baumbach.

[C]

Oh. Oh.

[A]

I would like him to really win an Oscar.

[C]

I would, too.

[B]

I want him to win a real one.

[A]

But I also.

[B]

What are we doing?

[C]

But we listen. Oh, wait. Although. All right. The. Glenn. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Glenn Close. I feel like we can't do this to Glenn. But it's just named after her, so it's like, whatever happens after that is what happens. I mean, what went on here? I don't know, because I have been thinking about it, so. I mean, he's made some embarrassing movies. Like, I think that White Noise.

[A]

I'm a defender.

[B]

I liked it too.

[A]

I'm a huge defender of Noah's. I think he's.

[C]

Of everything.

[A]

There are some I like a lot more than others. There are some movies that I'm not crazy about.

[B]

I am, like, he's incredibly important to me. Like, I am a disciple, and I did not understand what was going on. And I, like.

[A]

I. She was more down on it than I was.

[B]

I went to Venice to be there for the premiere. Like, I was in the room. There was a ra. I was almost stuck on that island. Because I love Noah Baumbach.

[C]

I think what's hard for me about J. Kelly is it's so. Such an exposure of the underlying values or something. I feel like this is a man who has really gone out of his way to be a real cinematic weirdo. And the idea that the person who made. Oh, my God, I'm never gonna remember what that movie is called. What's the one where Greta Gerwig goes to the. To the. To the. To her sister or cousin or niece's house?

[A]

Mistress Americana. Mr.

[C]

When they get to the house of Mistress America. It is. It is such a. Such a boonwellian trainer.

[A]

The Connecticut House. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

I think about the nerve of that sequence of that passage of that movie all the time. It doesn't work, but there's a. There's a real attempt to, like, like, not play by anybody's rules.

[A]

I love that movie.

[C]

And this, to me, is such a betrayal or. Or of those values or. It is. Or it. What? Or it is the truth. Right.

[A]

I think it is.

[B]

I. I think it's also. I. There is. There is a whimsy and a. Like a two in this. In J. Kelly that I don't recognize that he co wrote it with Emily Mortimer. Like, I understand.

[A]

Pause idea to you both. If you swapped out George Clooney for Tom Hanks, would it work?

[B]

I. I don't.

[C]

I mean, they'd still have to say the same words.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And be on that same train and have that same dialogue with the daughter. It is definitely a Clooney problem, but.

[A]

And I know why they. I know why he wanted him.

[B]

I know why he was a Sandler in this movie. And I love Sandler as well, and I'm happy to see him. But, like, like, what is going on?

[C]

Wait, you like Sandler in this movie?

[B]

No, I don't dislike him, but I'm just. And it's not even his fault. But, like, what is that character?

[C]

You know, when I wanted to hang

[B]

up the phone, I know what it is.

[C]

That first scene on the set. That scene.

[A]

The.

[C]

The opening. Opening sequence.

[A]

Can I get one more of that one?

[C]

I just hated it. So. I just hate listening to, like, Hollywood people, like, writing about Hollywood people pretending to have, like, deep or emotional or spiritual phone calls while at work. It just makes me so mad. But all the stuff with Billy Crudup, it's just every single. The daughter sequences. I was so mad at this movie for so long and was waiting for something to redeem it.

[B]

And I'm completely mystified by it. I've spent months and months trying to understand it. It was mildly enjoyable, I thought.

[A]

I've been on it the whole time.

[B]

One of my favorite filmmakers in Italy. Like, I don't know what my problem is. And I had some problems.

[C]

You don't have a problem.

[B]

I know, but do you think if.

[A]

If you give him this prize now we'll decide.

[B]

Can we go back to Greenberg?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I hope so.

[A]

Greenberg.

[C]

Oh, my God, I would give anything for Greenberg. A movie that I didn't even love, but I love it in retrospect.

[A]

Greenberg 2 colon. I love LA.

[B]

That's what it's going to be like.

[A]

It's going to be like Arthur 2 on the rocks.

[B]

The scene when they're driving the Greta Gerwer character to get the abortion. And she's like, can we go to In N Out afterwards? And he's like, it's your day. I think about it every day.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, she's also bad in this movie, Greta.

[B]

Well, also, why would she do that to you?

[A]

I think he was going for a tone that he just did not quite have his arms around. I just don't that it was like a little bit more of like. I mean, a silly Italian, you know, romp.

[C]

But he frequently misfires tone. I mean, while we were young, like, I don't. I don't.

[B]

That had ad rock, so that's fine.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

We have to keep what's next. What's next best?

[A]

We're going to the real.

[B]

Congratulations, Noah Balmac. You're welcome.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Best screenplay. The nominees are Mary Bronstein for if I had Legs, I'd kick you. Michelangelo Covino and Kyle Morven for Splitsville. Clayburn Mendoza. Filio for the Secret Age. Zach Kreger for Weapons. Ava Victor for Sorry Baby. And Ari Aster for Eddington.

[B]

You're doing your sorrys like Canadian sorry, baby.

[A]

Yeah, sorry. Sorry.

[B]

I mean, I.

[A]

The word is not sorry.

[B]

It just. I don't know whether it's like the Matt Johnson, like Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie effect.

[A]

That Canadian.

[C]

I've been trying to say sorry, but it just does. As an American, you just don't want to be. Let them have it the proper way.

[A]

Which prize is Claybor Mendoza Filho gonna win? Because he's gonna win one of these and he wasn't nominated for any of these.

[C]

I feel like. What are our options? It's.

[B]

He's screenplay or director.

[C]

I think weapons. I'm gonna say weapons. If we can give our.

[A]

I think it's weird that this is not nominated in a Roman.

[C]

I do too. How do you explain that?

[A]

I don't know. I really thought it was gonna be

[C]

such a slam dunk for an original screenplay nomination.

[A]

I predicted it to be in. And my thinking was it's gonna get screenplay, supporting actress and picture. And that's like a. That's a good package for your like Sixth Sense style, like original thriller that the Oscar sometimes likes. And it just didn't get there.

[C]

And also my friend Nick Kulish revealed to me is also kind of personal too. You can feel that. You can feel that totally. But I didn't know about the sort

[A]

of undergirding his friend who passed away.

[C]

I didn't know about any of that stuff.

[A]

Yeah, and there's all kinds of stuff about addiction and recovery that's in the movie. I. I think it's a really good script.

[C]

I love this script. It's a really good.

[A]

I would happily give it to Episode. What do you want to make a case for? Anything.

[B]

I Think this is the only place Mary Bronstein is nominated. I didn't put her in direct. Her put her in direct.

[C]

I mean, I think it's a better directed movie than written movie.

[A]

I think the script is good, but I think it's like a real feat.

[C]

This is a real feat of director.

[B]

No. And there are a few directorial choices that are amazing, but I don't know.

[C]

The whole thing is a directorial.

[B]

Sure, sure.

[C]

I don't like this bit with the. The ceiling.

[B]

Well, you know, but.

[C]

But just the way that the rose burn and the daughter are handled visually.

[B]

Is it transcendent?

[A]

Very small, very interesting idea.

[C]

Just so.

[B]

So imagine and really pays off. I don't know though. Surprising you very kindly last night asked me like, how is it being a mom? You know, or some.

[C]

It wasn't like that kindness.

[A]

It was truly a mom in the face of the. The art that is reflecting on that

[B]

and if I had legs, I'd kick you. Is definitely about how it is really shitty to be a mom. Like that is sort of the thesis statement. But that's not what the thesis statement is.

[C]

I don't feel like that's what this movie is about. It's not like the other ones.

[B]

How hard the world makes it to be a parent and given certain circumstances too. And I have thought about so many specific scenes and not just like the observations. Whether it's the parking attendant or the support group or, you know, the wine being shut off at 2am I'll never

[A]

get the image of her just shoving the cheese from the pizza into her mouth in the first scene. Which is the most like. I know that. I know that moment.

[B]

Right. And like. And every interaction with the doctor in the hallways, like all of it is so observed. But there's something also written about the character that I think is so fair and revelatory. Like amazing. It's incredible.

[C]

The best plot twist in any movie. Oh, that's not true. There's been a few good plot twists, but this is definitely a top three plot twist. Finding out what her job is. Finding out what her job is. Then the way we find out is one of the funniest, most shocking things I think I've ever seen that also reveals a character at the same time. Yes, fantastic.

[A]

So I'll give it to Mary Bronstein if you want to give it to.

[C]

I think Zack Kroger.

[B]

Yeah, Zack Kregger's gonna. I wanted to make the case again

[C]

because the thing about that reveal. And if I had legs, I kick you. Is it's just How? It's just the POV of the movie. It's just you are completely inside our narcissism and stress that of course she knows a thing that she forgot to tell us because she already knows it about herself. So when we find out you're just like the whole time you've had this job, it's like. Okay. Anyway. Sorry.

[A]

Okay. Zach Kreger is our winner. Yeah. Best supporting Actor. The nominees are Tom Burke for Black Bag. Tim Key for the Ballad of Wallace Islands. Adam Sandler for J. Kelly. I will not be moved off of that corner. Dylan o' Brien for Anniversary. And I will speak with you guys about Anniversary. Austin Abrams for Weapons and William H. Macy for Train Dreams.

[C]

Ooh.

[A]

Now Dylan o', Brien, you could say also for Twinless. Potentially.

[B]

We are doing that.

[A]

We are doing that. So I'll add Anniversary and Twin list. Now, Anniversary. You haven't seen it, right?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. Have you seen it?

[C]

I haven't seen it.

[A]

Okay. Deranged film. Possibly the most deranged film of the year. I really like what he is doing in the movie. And it is a very slow evolution towards something that is evil. It's a movie about a very successful college professor, sort of public intellectual type played by Diane Lane and her family coming together, I think for a large anniversary party.

[C]

You missed a Diane Lane movie last year.

[A]

The cast of this movie is Diane Lane, Kyle Chandler, Zoey Deutch, Phoebe Dynevor, Dylan O' Brien and Darryl McCormick and McKenna Grace. And it's about the country slowly descending into fascism through the prism of a family that is at the center of this dissent.

[C]

Oh wow.

[A]

The movie is like so interesting on paper.

[C]

Who did it?

[A]

It's screenplay's by someone named Lori Roseanne Gambino and the director is Jan Colmasso. The execution is like kind of a train wreck and at times laughable. The performances though are pretty good. And Dylan o' Brien plays kind of what is happening to young men in America. And I don't mean that in like the Joker sense. I mean that in like the Ben Shapiro sense. And it's. He's very good. Now I'm not sure if I'm recommending this movie and I think I feel very similar to him now. You've freaked me.

[C]

I'm kind of one of.

[A]

It would be like a really great podcast episode. But not a good movie.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Which is a unique strain of culture.

[B]

Right. But one we find ourselves in more and more.

[A]

We do indeed. I just wanted to explain that because I couldn't get him out of my head when I was thinking about this category. Where do you guys lean here?

[C]

Austin Abrams.

[B]

I knew you were gonna say that.

[A]

We just gave Weapons a lot of love.

[B]

That's okay.

[C]

But he. Like, it's hard to watch that movie and not. I mean, I just remember watching it being like, whoever this guy is, because you also. The thing that I love about this movie and the way it's structured is you don't know who's important.

[A]

Yeah, Right.

[C]

So there's this guy running around the periphery of this movie, and then all of a sudden, he's got a. He's like his tunnel reaches the light of his own section.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

You know, and I'm like, oh, wow. First of all, we get a break. And second of all, we get to spend time with this performance. It's so dialed into the thing that it is, which is like.

[A]

It's so funny. He's the sixth consecutive Euphoria cast member who's gonna be a movie star.

[C]

Oh, interesting.

[A]

He was the ninth lead on Euphoria, and now he's gonna lead the Resident Evil movie. He was in Wolf's. He was the best thing in Wolf.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. I forgot about that.

[A]

He's a very good actor. I don't know who else.

[C]

I mean, I'm open to, like, have it not be Austin Abrams.

[B]

I put William H. Macy on here just because. William H. Macy.

[A]

I think he's wonderful.

[B]

He's so great. And I also. I feel like I've seen every iteration of William H. Macy throughout, like, 40 years. And I was like, wow, I've never seen this before. And he's really. Seven minutes. So beautiful.

[A]

Yeah. This is his makeup Oscar for Not winning for Fargo.

[B]

Okay. There you go.

[C]

I mean, also, whatever. We can talk about this. Are we gonna. Is. Is old Joel out there somewhere?

[B]

He's not nominated for Best Actor.

[C]

Okay, well, maybe now is the time to just be, like, train dreams, y'.

[A]

All.

[C]

The acting and train dreams. It's like.

[A]

It's really good.

[C]

Joel Edgerton. What are we. I mean, you and I, like, have.

[A]

I never got it with him. I know. I never got it with him.

[B]

I mean, even Felicity Jones, who I am usually real black licorice about.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

She's great in it.

[A]

It was a real union for us in terms of people that we didn't get getting them.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, Joel Edgerton. I just. It's weird to fall in love with an actor you've been watching for 15 years.

[A]

You do like him, though. But you liked him in the past.

[C]

I like him, but I feel like there's usually somebody who's more interesting or he's too much. I really like him in Underground Railroad because that part is impossible. And he manages to do really surprising and absorbing things with it. And I feel like I understand this sort of abstract figure in a way that he makes that character concrete. But this is just like a completely perfect use of Joel Edgerton.

[A]

I agree with that. I think he's very good at.

[C]

He's a listener.

[A]

He picks very good material and he's not worried about dominating anything. But I always find him to be just a little bit of a blank sheet of paper. And this was a rare case. And partially it's just cause, like, Dennis Johnson just wrote his life and imbued him with something that maybe he doesn't always have. To me, as an actor, I think

[C]

that also his best mode might be Tenderness. Right.

[A]

Yeah. He's like that in Loving, though, you know?

[C]

Yeah. But that movie is bad.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

Like, it doesn't know what to do with him. And this movie seems built around him. Him.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Like, that's an issue movie that has Joel Edgerton on the side of it. This. This to me, doesn't work. If he doesn't work, I don't think. And he really works in it.

[A]

Well, Macy's getting hardware.

[C]

He's not William H. Macy.

[B]

Great.

[A]

We've got five more categories. Best Supporting Actress. The nominees are jodie comer for 28 years later. Una Chaplin for Avatar Fire and Ash. Vicky Crepes, her father, mother, sister, Brother. Nina Haas for Hedda. I'm taking out Pamela Anderson. No shots to Pamela. Tanya Maria for the Secret Agent. Kirsten Dunst for Roofman.

[C]

Oh, yes.

[A]

And Regina hall for One Battle After Another.

[B]

It's hard for me to not pick Kiki, my. You know, my number one. You don't even like Kirk. My Ride or Die. I didn't love Rufman. She is also. She's a very, very elevated girlfriend. But she is playing the girlfriend. I want more for Kirsten Dunst.

[C]

I think this part is great, though. The movie does not work and it's kind of a. It's almost a crime. The movie thinks it's gonna get away with what it tried to get away with.

[A]

But just like the Roofman.

[C]

Well, exactly.

[A]

This is the.

[C]

But this is the problem. They're completely aligned.

[A]

Yeah, right. You said the same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't agree. But, you know, that's.

[C]

I think she is so Good in this movie.

[B]

She's good in everything.

[C]

I know. But this is like a particularly smart use of a person who you would think would be too good for a part like this. But the understanding of her very transparency as an actor and her ability to play both acquiescence and skepticism simultaneously with that face. Right? That face that looks like it's been around the world. And every scene with every actor she's with, it's kind of a different kind of weariness. With the church people, it's one thing. With Channing Tatum, it's another. With the daughter, it's something else. With them all together, it's a different thing. Her and Dinklage, who plays her boss at the big box store where she works, is a different energy. She's, like, kind but withholding. Sweet. But if you cross her, she will. She will put a. To put a knife in your chest. Like. I don't know. I just. I can't believe. Talk about a movie that had one great supporting performance in it, that didn't get any nominations, that should have gotten one for this.

[B]

All right, well, then, anyway, we can't.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Tanya Maria.

[C]

Tanya Maria. Listen, I could give a similar speech about Tanya Maria.

[A]

Tanya Maria from the Secret Agent. We will talk about the Secret Agent in depth on Friday on the show. I mean, nobody fucking saw the Jim Jarmusch movie, but Vicki Craves is phenomenal in the Jim Jarvis movie.

[C]

I just. I'm just gas on him. I'm sorry, I'll. I should break down and see it.

[A]

But Nina Haas for Hetta, no, she was great. She was good.

[C]

I mean, that's part of that movie. I. I felt, like,

[A]

very menacing.

[C]

I watched it. I'm like, oh, she's really going for this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's big.

[C]

Like, all the tear. Well, it's funny because it's such a busty part, and I'm like, well, what is the bustiness about here? And this is like, to me, all that chestiness is like full emotional exposure. And just like, the amount of crying is sort of proportional to the amount of bust. It just. Also, she's never acted like that in anything.

[A]

No, I've never seen what she's like.

[C]

I've never seen her. Yeah, I've never seen her give a performance like that.

[A]

She's usually much more restrained.

[C]

Yeah, I just. I loved it. Like, the damn. The damn burst.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, boy. It's a tough one.

[A]

This is a loaded category. I just want to make a note for Varang, Una Chaplin from Avatar. That's A navi that I'm interested in.

[C]

Yeah, I.

[A]

A lot of hips going on.

[C]

Hips. Wait, is she. Is she the. She's the, like, the. The bad lady. Okay. That. She's. She's good. That's good. Yeah, that's good. A lot of good choices.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That she makes.

[B]

I mean, Tanya Maria is really.

[A]

This is.

[C]

This should be. This is the real supporting actress category right here. I'm sorry, with all due respect, we

[A]

picked a good one. This is. This is.

[C]

This is the.

[A]

Okay. Tanya Maria is going to win.

[B]

Great.

[C]

Tanya.

[A]

Best actor Benicio Del Toro for the Phoenician Scheme. Lee Byung Hun for no Other Choice. Josh o' Connor for Wake Up, Dead man and the Master man and the Mastermind. Ben Whishoff for Peter Hoosier's Day, Harry Melling for Pillion and Jesse Plemons for Begonia.

[C]

This is a good one. I would love to hear you guys talk about Josh o', Connor, but only in one movie, and that's the Kelly

[A]

Reichardt movie the Mastermind. It's my favorite of his performances.

[C]

Yeah, I would agree with that.

[A]

I.

[B]

Still.

[C]

Not enough there for me, but the character is really good. And, you know. Well, we'll talk about the movie itself later if we want, but the scintillating

[A]

indictment of all men from Kelly Reichardt.

[C]

Yeah. No, I mean, I think. But I think the character is stronger than the performance, in a way. What are my. Harry Melling. What's my other option?

[A]

Lemons? Ben Whishaw.

[C]

Oh, Ben, listen. What a hard job, that movie. What is he just speaking a transcript on a sofa and on a roof?

[A]

It's. I like that movie.

[C]

I love. I love that movie. It's. It's short and sweet. She's also really good. Rebecca hall, that she. She decides to do the accent. I. I don't know. I just love the quiet, intellectual subtlety of this film.

[A]

It's the assumption that you would understand what they're talking about, which is a really good choice. Right. Like plunging you into New York.

[C]

New York. The New York art world in the 80s. I'm there. But he's just such a. I've never seen him like this before. Like, not neurotic.

[A]

Yeah. I was gonna say he's more like, confident, like brazen, almost. Yeah.

[C]

Yes. This is a version of him that I really like.

[B]

And I mean, I'm a fan. He's Paddington. He's Q.

[C]

Wait.

[B]

He's the voice of Paddington in all three films. It's wonderful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Have you not seen Those. I've seen them.

[C]

I didn't know. Big Witch.

[A]

Doesn't that make it better? Who's winning this category?

[C]

Okay, well, I guess you learn something new every day, so. I listen to this show.

[B]

Okay, so you're out on Josh o'.

[C]

Connor. I'm not out. I just feel like.

[A]

Is that where your heart was leaning?

[B]

Well, no, he just. He brought it up and he's like, I want to hear what? Tosh.

[C]

How are we not talking about Lee Byun Hun?

[B]

Yeah. Like, what are we doing?

[A]

He would be my pick.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So come on.

[C]

This guy leaves it all out there. Impossible performance. You should hate him, but you kind of can't because, like, what would you do?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, well, I probably wouldn't create a fake paper company to then get job applications from all my enemies and kill them. That isn't something that I personally would do.

[C]

He's so, like. It's funny and stressful.

[A]

That's the thing.

[C]

It's funny.

[A]

Deep dramatic performance. That is very funny. Slapstick, a lot of perspective stuff. That is great. I won't leave you on. I thought he had, like, a weird outside chance to get in here and not.

[B]

The Academy. Just is not interested in this film or in Park Chan Wook. Don't really know. Not Cannes, though.

[C]

He'll get his. He'll get his chance.

[A]

The president at the Cannes Film Festival

[C]

this year of the jury. Oh, this year.

[A]

Park Chan Wook.

[C]

Oh, Park Chan Wook. Okay, that took long enough. I'm surprised that hasn't happened before.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

He's never been on the jury.

[A]

No. And he. I think Oldboy was the first movie he had there. I think he's had, like, five movies there.

[C]

Yeah. I'm surprised he's never been on the jury at all.

[A]

Okay, best actress, Julia Roberts for After the Hunt. Amanda Seyfried for the Housemaid and the Testament of Ann Lee. Susan Chardy for On Becoming a Guinea Fowl. Jennifer Lawrence for Die My Love, Kathleen Chalfont for Familiar Touch. And I put Ana de Armas for Eden.

[B]

Okay, let's talk about Julia. I put it on just to talk to you about it. I mean, I think she's good in this. She's in this absolute mystery of a film.

[C]

Very good in a movie that has no idea why it exists.

[B]

Why does it exist?

[A]

Fully agreed.

[B]

Can you explain the last scene of after the Hunt to us? Like, what is your interpretation of her

[C]

in the hospital bed? Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, the reunion scene. My old Indian Jammy.

[A]

Is that Your spot?

[C]

That was my spot.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I mean, it's pretty good, too. I'm surprised they didn't change it into something else else, too. It's just what it is.

[A]

It's weird because. Did you see the VFX set in

[C]

New Haven, Connecticut, at Yale University?

[A]

Did you see that they. The way that they rebuilt the campus with vfx?

[C]

I read a very good piece of art criticism by a guy named, I think, Chris Hawthorne. Christopher Hawthorne.

[A]

Oh, yeah, sure. Longtime architecture critic.

[C]

He wrote about this movie. He wrote about the Woody Allen opening credits.

[B]

Right.

[C]

The real Flex. And really funny. Like the way the movie recreates Yale somewhere else.

[A]

Interesting that they did that. They used the restaurant. It's been noted that the restaurant is like. That's a known place.

[C]

It's a real place. Anyway, I don't. Well, it's funny. I have a hard time loving. I love this performance, but everything about it, everything else about it is so. So false and unsure of itself that her confidence, in a weird way, is for. As good as. I can isolate it from the badness of the movie. But then it kind of makes the movie worse because it means that she was probably left to direct herself. You know, in a weird way.

[A]

I think she just had a real handle on this character and made, like, all the choices that she wanted to make. And she's powerful enough to be like, this is how I'm gonna do this. But then there are a lot of other actors who are not. I think Garfield's pretty good in it. He's not. I think it's not his best, but

[C]

it's not a good.

[A]

Everybody else is.

[C]

The part is bad.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[C]

He's making the most of a. Of a real.

[A]

He's kind of like a series of talking points.

[B]

He's not really like, yeah, Chloe, 70, is great.

[C]

She's wonderful. She's wonderful at the bar. A thing that has never happened ever either. Like, two. You're too. Two very popular professors just chilling in one of the New Haven dive bar. Didn't never happen.

[A]

I agree. The whole script is a crazy.

[B]

I mean, are all New Haven professors or Yale professors living like that? Because that apartment was.

[C]

Yeah, there's some people who can do that.

[B]

It's achievable. I've thought a lot about. Well, listen, it's achievable.

[A]

Get back into the classics.

[C]

Oh, you mean her house.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. In her apartment.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that's easy. That's just like. There's like a. There's like three streets where that can happen.

[B]

Okay, that's easy. I mean, that's easy. The stripes.

[C]

It's not a sofa.

[A]

Is Julia winning this category?

[C]

Well, wait, hold on. I mean, you groaned at Jennifer Lawrence, Kathleen Chalfonte.

[A]

Yeah, I liked. Familiar touch.

[C]

Exquisite. Yeah, exquisite. Like the idea that there weren't enough actors who saw her give this performance is such a bummer to me.

[A]

Did she win New York Film Critics Circle? What?

[C]

She won something.

[B]

No, she did win.

[A]

What prize did she win for this?

[C]

That's very sweet.

[A]

She definitely won a critics prize. That was an early. Like, we're giving this. We're shining a light on this.

[C]

Well, that's good.

[A]

Yeah, but it got. I mean, it was a very small release in May. Not a lot of people saw it. I think it's a very good film.

[C]

Very good movie, very well directed, really well written. And she is so good.

[B]

National Society of Film Critics.

[C]

Ah, good for them. Good for them.

[A]

Can we talk about Seyfried real quick?

[B]

And also, I think she won the Horizonte Award at Venice for Best Actress.

[A]

There you go. Now, the housemaid. I think she's very amusing in. I don't know that I would put it up in any real awards race. Ann Lee. I think she's fucking firing.

[B]

I loved it.

[C]

Go on.

[B]

Okay. It's a no.

[C]

Wait, did I miss the Ann Lee episode?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

All right, I'll go back.

[A]

It was a relatively conversation.

[C]

You don't have to do it here. I will find it.

[B]

Because we both liked it. We thought it was like. Again, I saw it, like at Venice with no context or whatever. Besides knowing that it was Mona Fastfold and Brady Courbet and was surprised and found it to be like the other half of the. Or the other perspective of the Brutalist. But in a way that made more sense to me or where they connected the dots a bit more, while also being really weird. Like the. I really liked the music and the choreography. I thought that it communicated like.

[A]

I think it's a crazy performance too. It's like. It's very physical with all the birthing stuff that is very traumatic and the physical abuse. Plus the singing and the. And the choreography and dancing that she has to do. You know, the whole movie is on her face the whole time. I think it's like a major, major performance. I loved it. I love her. I've always loved her as an actor. I like when she challenges herself. The housemaid is her not really challenging herself. It's a check job.

[B]

She should have also been nominated for Most Fun had in a Movie.

[C]

I love this woman so much.

[B]

Amanda Seyfried. Me too.

[C]

I really. And I love the idea of Brady Courbet and Mona Fastball. I mean, I. I love the Brutalist. So it's not even so much the idea. I love the work.

[A]

This one, you couldn't get into it.

[C]

I just felt like it's trying so hard to not be that Shaker movie that it's the other Shaker movie. And it's so the other Shaker movie that I couldn't get my heart, mind, even my eyes sometimes all the way around it. And I just. In every. With each passing scene, I felt more alienated by it. I also wish they had not cast anybody I recognized because none of the other actors have anything to do. So I'm like, well, where'd Christopher Abbott go?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, I'm kind of interested in him as an actor. And now I'm like, is he coming back? Where'd he go? So if it had just been her.

[A]

He was in the role of all men, right?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I just.

[B]

Except for Lewis Paulman.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Who is in the role.

[A]

Faithful brother. Yeah.

[B]

Nice brother.

[C]

I just. I really. This movie really kept pushing me out of the theater, so.

[A]

Well, could not disagree with you lot.

[B]

Do you think any of that's like a Pennsylvania thing? Don't the Shakers have a presence in pen? I'm sure the Shakers, you know, started in New York.

[C]

It just wasn't. I don't. The Shakers are not a part of my.

[B]

I was not at all familiar. I didn't know that it was shaking Quakers until this movie, so.

[C]

Oh, interesting. So you guys like learned.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

It wasn't about that. To me. It was a. I'm. I find most modern musicals quite tedious. And I thought this was a fascinating reinvention of what to expect from it.

[C]

This is such a. Like, I also like grew up in

[A]

the church and was like people who are ecstatically performing their faith as opposed to the. What I observed as a person going to Catholic church in the suburbs in the 1980s, this was moving, honestly, fascinating. And also I really like that Ann Lee, on paper, very much seems like a kook. Very much seems like a cultist. And that the movie does not engage with that. The movie is a very.

[C]

But it's in there.

[A]

But it is a very non judgmental portrayal of the events of her life in a way that I find interesting. We have to keep going.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who are we picking in this category?

[C]

I'm going with Kathleen Chalfont.

[B]

Even Though the critics already gave out the. And you. And you just. You rolled your eyes at Jennifer Lawrence. That's a no for you.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Well, what an embarrassment. That whole movie.

[B]

I loved it. I loved it. And you know what? I saw it on a date with Zach and we were both cracking up, and we were just like.

[C]

Are you laughing at the movie?

[B]

No, Because I was postpartum when I saw it. I was like, yeah.

[C]

I really want to be respectful to that experience.

[B]

You do.

[C]

This is one of the most embarrassing uses of two good actors I have ever seen. They are in Acting Class 101 and the instructor is like, out, and we are watching a sub. Because, I mean, some of the things that happen here, I'm like, this is really a thing that happens in acting class? Yes.

[B]

On your first day, right where you crawl around.

[A]

I parked like a dog.

[B]

I just.

[C]

I was so embarrassed for these people. I.

[A]

A primal expression of motherhood.

[C]

I watched and I. What was. I watched. What was the one before. This is Jennifer Lawrence movie.

[A]

No hard feelings.

[B]

I love that movie.

[C]

And it's the same. It's kind of the same, like, feat of not giving a fuck. Right. I loved that movie. So much more. Because she was giving so much more to a movie that really didn't need it. And this movie is taking so much from her and giving us nothing. Giving us nothing.

[A]

Siphoning your life force like a baby. Yeah. Siphoning your. Your mental wellness.

[B]

So then she just married to this cute, tall guy who brings home a. A dog for no reason.

[C]

And he's such a dick. I just. I really actively disagree.

[A]

I think you're actually weirdly agreed about the film's success. I fall right in the middle of the two of you. I wouldn't give it to Julia Roberts. We'll go with another piece of hardware for Julia Roberts. Okay, last two categories.

[B]

She only has one. It's not enough.

[A]

She has, like, 14 Golden Globes.

[B]

That doesn't.

[A]

Okay, best director.

[B]

What if she sent them back like Tom Cruise? We don't know.

[A]

We didn't get news of that. Yeah. After the HFPA scandal. Okay, Best director, Mona Fastvold for the Testament of Ann Lee. Steven Soderbergh for Black Bag. Kelly Reichardt for the Mastermind. Kleber Mendoza Filho for the Secret Agent. Park Chan Wook for no Other Choice. Jafar Panahi for It Was Just an Accident. I'm just going to put it on the table. I'm going with Kleiber Mendoza Filio.

[C]

Okay, I agree.

[B]

I would like to make an honorary case for Jafar Panahi, for. It was just an accident.

[C]

Honorary.

[B]

Not honorary, but, like, I guess I'm outvoted.

[C]

I mean, not an honor.

[B]

Like, let's just. Let's. Let's have the conversation. What happened to the. This wonderful film that has just been absolutely overlooked.

[C]

I think that at some point it's got.

[B]

Read a newspaper, guys.

[C]

But that's not the reason.

[B]

I know it's not.

[C]

Because I think the thing that works about this movie is that it. It's applicable to all moments in time of human history.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I also think that it is specifically, obviously, about Iran, but I. I just really. I love this movie.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I just can pick one person. I'm picking Mendoza because he made the movie. That, to me, of these people was the most difficult to pull off.

[B]

Right.

[C]

This is operating in a kind of like narrative and moral and political swamp. He has found a real light on the. The boat that takes you across the hell river. I think Jafar Panahy, I think that script is really the achievement there. Also. He's very good at directing those actors. I think that Kelly Reichart's achievement with the Mastermind is the script. That is the single best movie ending of the year.

[B]

I was gonna say we should have put it in ending. Do we wanna go back and take it from Begonia and give it to the Mastermind?

[A]

No, no, no. Mastermind.

[B]

It's so good.

[C]

Ending of the Mastermind is like, well,

[A]

what was that all for?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful ending.

[A]

So if you haven't seen the Mastermind, it's on Mubi right now. I would highly encourage people to check

[C]

it out, but I think that I'm gonna say that I'm fine with that. Fia Mendosha is your winner.

[A]

I agree. Yeah.

[C]

Directing, this is a very strong category. Never acted before.

[A]

Hearing you guys talking about Panahi, it occurs to me that even though all we do is talk about the International Academy. Right. And it's become very European in the last 10 years, and increasingly, South American and Brazilian films are really getting their due right now. We've seen some of the Pablo Lorraine films from Chile. Get some love. There have never been a film from the Middle east or film from Africa nominated for Best Picture in the history of the Academy Awards. Very notable.

[C]

I mean, I think they probably think they got it done without Africa. They can cross it off the list.

[A]

I wonder if that is the next phase that it's almost like the Academy is not really as familiar with Panahi's. Work and they don't have the same level of legacy and like, you know, maybe haven't seen all the Keirstami films. They don't know about the Iranian new wave. They're not into that history.

[C]

I mean, but there's like still several. I mean, there are like. Like the West Africans, the black French, the. The Iranians. Although, I mean, what are we talking about now? Right?

[A]

I mean, you know, there's like Tunisian cinema. You know, there's all kinds of places.

[C]

There are still the Romanians. Like, I mean, one of those guys is going to have a moment.

[A]

I don't know.

[C]

This is an interesting way to think about what but, like, how much bigger the tent has to get.

[A]

Well, like My Father's Shadow, which is a Nigerian British film, is set in Lagos. Like, it is. It is. It's an. It's an African movie, right? And it's like very well reviewed and was represented at bafta. But like, has it never even had a moment in any Oscar conversation? And I. I'm just pointing it out.

[C]

No, no, I mean, it's noting. I think that is to come.

[A]

I believe it'll take might be a decade or two before they really get around to all of that because it's a lot of history that most western film lovers are just not as informed about and so they don't feel the same sense of. Well, we have to recognize Panahi's achievements because they didn't see Taxi or whatever, or forget about the films that he made in the 90s and 2000s.

[C]

There's the. I mean, there's a master. One of his.

[A]

He's made many, several masterpieces. Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Last category. Best Picture. So we gotta get out of here. The nominees are Black Bag Eddington. Die My Love. It was Just an Accident. No other choice. The Mastermind. The Phoenician Scheme. Sorry, Baby. The Testament of An Lee. And Weapons. I have no idea what's winning here.

[C]

Okay, this is easy for me.

[B]

Go ahead.

[C]

Weapons.

[B]

It seems like there probably is the most.

[A]

This is probably the film that has the highest number of votes to get into Best Picture in the Academy. That didn't make it. That would be my guess.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe it was just an accident. Is there too or.

[B]

No. Well, no other choice.

[A]

No, no other choice. Just gotten dinged everywhere. I know I would pick no other choice. No Other choice. Was my third ever movie.

[C]

I love no other choice. I love no other choice. I love no other choice. I just. I also just. I mean, I've seen Park Chan Wook do that before?

[B]

Sure, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

I think that's been the biggest criticism.

[C]

I. If you've seen his movies, you know that this is just him returning to form. It's not him transcending the form he returned.

[A]

That is a very fair, fair take.

[C]

I think that Weapons was the form,

[A]

by the way, that you're referring to is of one of the 15 greatest filmmakers on earth. Like, it's not as though he's returning to form, which is a piece of shit.

[C]

Oh, no, the movie still very good. But I mean, it's. This movie is not better than, you know, the first four. I like, but I really, really love it. I mean, it's as good as. It's as good. As good as.

[A]

I think it's in, like. I think it's, like, a minus territory. And he has a couple of movies, right? He has Old Boy, he has Handmaiden. He has a couple of, like, a movies.

[C]

I also don't love the ending. I think that everything is. Everything about this movie is note perfect until you get to the dismount.

[A]

Also, once again. AI.

[B]

Yeah, that last shot, I mean, it's like, paired with Edmonton.

[C]

Yeah, I. I mean, Weapons. Weapons.

[A]

Where do you lean?

[B]

I think no other choice. It was just an accident. Weapons are probably, like the consensus things here. Like, if. If you were on the Edding and Eddington train, I might put. But you're not.

[C]

I'm really not.

[A]

You know, and it's all about consensus. That's my number two movie of the year.

[C]

I knew that.

[A]

I knew that.

[C]

I knew that. I knew that.

[B]

And I really liked it.

[C]

I love listening. I love listening to people. I love. I have not read. I've not read enough about this movie, but I've heard, you know, I've heard enough.

[A]

It is just like. It is the dark vampiric truth of how the world is. And the Paramount Warner Brothers thing that we cleared our throat about for three hours ago is like. Like, it's all there, man.

[C]

Yeah, it's true. I mean, it might warrant me rewatching it under the circumstances, but, I mean, for our purposes today, I'm going to

[B]

say I'm good with weapons.

[C]

I'm going to say weapons.

[A]

Sorry, Mr. Panahi, I think Weapons is an absolutely wonderful winner because it's a movie that would never win Best Picture at the Academy Awards, and that's why it deserves its love here. How do you feel about this exercise? Good. Good.

[C]

Yeah, I love it. I love talking to you guys.

[B]

We solved everything.

[C]

Figuring it all out.

[A]

I'm going to work at Paramount.

[B]

Guys, just a heads up.

[A]

Sorry. My last episode. Thanks, everybody. Hey, Jack. Thank you so much for everything. I'll see you never again. Okay, buddy. Gotta go join the Ellison army.

[C]

Whoa. Yeah, I mean, I guess. I guess we can do this too.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Congratulations. You've been elevated from third chair. Second.

[C]

Oh, my God. I'm gonna get canned. Under the. Under the. I mean, although we get to stay here until. Until y' all buy us or buy. Buy us. Buy us.

[A]

Spotify. In my first act as Spotify.

[C]

You buy the New York Times.

[A]

Chief, I will be buying.

[C]

You buy the New York Times and you buy Spotify.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[A]

Hey, guys, it's Sean. The big picture's canceled. Wesley Morris. Thank you. We can find you in the New York Times. We can find you on your show Cannonball, which I highly encourage people to at. Look, listen to. Where else can we find you? That's it. Okay. Home. Well, hopefully they don't find your home.

[C]

Traveling with my man. I don't know.

[A]

Where are you going next?

[C]

Lima, Peru.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. My best friend and his wife, who's also my very good friend, they live there. They've lived there for years. This is their last year before they move somewhere else. And so my annual trips to Lima are going to come to an end.

[A]

Oh, that sounds awesome.

[C]

Very sad about it, but. But I'm gonna go for one less. A great eating city.

[A]

Have the best time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

One of the great cities to dine in in the world.

[A]

I've never been to South America. I really wanna go.

[C]

Help yourselves. Lima is a great place to start.

[A]

Interesting. Amanda, thank you. Do you feel like you've done yeoman's work today? Ye Woman's work?

[B]

Sure. I think I got my major points across, you know? Which is all you can hope for.

[A]

Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for production support.

[C]

Thanks, Jack and Lucas.

[A]

Later this week, Here comes the bride. We'll see you then.