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- [00:00]
Sean Fett
This episode is presented by State Farm. Life's full of decisions, big and small. And sometimes you make movie ones you can really stand behind. For example, I was wise enough to stick around through the mid credits during Ryan Coogler's Sinners. And unlike my co host Amanda, I got to see a very special sequence with a great buddy guy, among other things. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:47]
State Farm Announcer
Martha listens to her favorite band all the time. In the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martin. Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got her seat close enough to actually see and hear them sort of. You were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more. Expedia made to travel. Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.
- [01:28]
Sean Fett
I'm Sean Fett. I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about the Royal Tenenbaums. Anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hitting the cemetery? Okay, so this is our Wes Anderson selection.
- [01:44]
Amanda Dobbins
Here we are.
- [01:45]
Sean Fett
This is Wes's third feature film. It's his first film in the 21st century. He wrote and directed this movie, co written with Owen Wilson, his early partner in writing. It stars Gene Hackman, Angelica Huston, Danny Glover, Ben Stiller, Luke Wilson, Gwyneth Paltrow, Bill Murray, Owen Wilson, Kumar Palana, Seymour Cassel and the voice of Alec Baldwin. Okay, let's just begin with why this Wes Anderson movie. I think that's probably our most relevant entry point because this, I don't know that we debated it a lot, but you could make the case for six other movies. You could for the West Ender.
- [02:21]
Amanda Dobbins
And I do think that you tried a little. And this is what happens every time you and I talk about Wes Anderson is that you, you know, kind of push a needle and you're like, well, what about Rice Kingdom and like, what about Rushmore and what about Bottle Rocket and Grand Budapest and you know, on and on and on and on. And those are all really valid points, except for the fact that Bottle Rocket and Rushmore were not eligible for this. Having been done in the last century.
- [02:47]
Sean Fett
Rushmore versus Tenenbaums would have been a war between us. Cuz that is still my favorite.
- [02:52]
Amanda Dobbins
Do you. It was a war when we ranked the Wes Anderson films on this very podcast. And then as now, I won because, like, at the end of the day, it's Tenenbaums. It is. It's Tenenbaums because of where it is in the Wes Anderson oeuvre, if you will, like, and. And what it represents of the. The development and also the future of his career. I think it's. It's Tenenbaums in terms of, you know, mass popularity. And it's like, in some ways it's the most mainstream, you know, certainly the most Halloween costumes, but it's. We don't always have to fight that. You know, sometimes that's a sign of something catching with the. I mean, it's his calling card and it sets the intention for the rest of the century, so. And it is also just lights out. Amazing.
- [03:44]
Sean Fett
Yeah, it's a wonderful movie. I think the best case that could have been made would have been for Grand Budapest Hotel, because that was the film that was the sort of, like, arrival of Wes as a part of the, like, institutional movie history because it was such a financial success and Academy Award recognized. And this movie is. This is the bridge. Him walking across the bridge from independent filmmaker to mainstream studio filmmaker. And Scott Rudin is producing his movies. And there is like a higher level of celebrity appearing in these films. It's not just this troupe of friends that he's organizing out of Texas. You know, it's Gwyneth Paltrow and Bill Murray returning. And, you know, it is also, I like that phrase, calling card that you used, because it's not just the iconography of the movie, but the exploration of all of the things that interest him, that he feels like he's kind of circling all the wagons around his ideas and pouring them all into this big kind of micro epic. Right. It's like a mini epic about a family over a period of time.
- [04:47]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. And it is set in one house where everyone has the rooms. I mean, it is like it's a doll's house or a diorama. You know, there is stylistically metatextual, you know, the. The framework. All of both the themes and the motifs that interest him are like bubbling there in Bottlerocket and Rushmore. But this is like, okay, lock in. Look at these colors. You know, look at this block text, like, you know, literary print. And these chapters. This. The. The music cues, the, like, the. The magical realism really, of like a different world.
- [05:26]
Sean Fett
That is the pastel constructed world we recognize.
- [05:29]
Amanda Dobbins
But also, you know, it's like 70s New York, but it's also 2001 and. And it's a 70s New York that only really existed in the minds of like, a kid from Houston and. Or a kid from Atlanta who was like, oh, maybe there is like, maybe Salinger's New York could be real. Or at least in the confines of this movie.
- [05:50]
Sean Fett
Yeah, I mean, Salinger, obviously, Franon Zooey is like the key influence on this film, and he pulls a lot from those pair of stories that Salinger wrote. But then there's also a lot of Mrs. Bazili Frankenweiler, you know, like, have.
- [06:02]
Amanda Dobbins
You guys read this yet?
- [06:03]
Sean Fett
Not with Alice. I mean, as a kid I read it.
- [06:05]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, this is. That's like core text for me. Claudia was on the list of girls names for us. Like that.
- [06:09]
Sean Fett
Oh, interesting.
- [06:10]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Like on Unreal.
- [06:12]
Sean Fett
Yeah. I mean, so from the Mixed Up Files, that book, the whole vibe of that book is imbued in the first 40 minutes of this movie. Most of the narration, most of the young Tenenbaum's portraiture of these three child.
- [06:24]
Amanda Dobbins
Geniuses, including literally, like the museum and Richie Run Away. It's a different museum and they don't keep their money in the violin case as they do in the book. But I always thought that that was just a really useful life lesson.
- [06:36]
Sean Fett
Yes. And that's the thing that this movie does, is that it makes manifest these literary and film influences that are clearly so important to him. You've got 70s American cinema, and you've also got 60s French New Wave and these two, like, the emotionality and the cutting style of the French movies and then the sort of like, emotional rawness of the 70s movies. I would not describe the last five or six west movies as emotionally raw. They are emotional.
- [07:08]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [07:09]
Sean Fett
But there is, like a kind of violence in this movie. There's like an anger and even like a viscerality with the famous Richie Tenenbaum scene that he's never really gone back to. Like, you can feel a little bit of some of that rage and despair in Darjeeling. You can feel a lot of sadness in these last few movies in Asteroid City. Like a real melancholy in those movies out of.
- [07:32]
Amanda Dobbins
Oh, my gosh. What's the most recent one's name?
- [07:34]
Sean Fett
Phoenician scheme.
- [07:35]
Amanda Dobbins
Phoenician scheme saying, this is like a pretty angry. And like, there are.
- [07:38]
Sean Fett
It's a violent movie, Phoenician scheme for sure. And there. It's a different kind of violence. But you're right. This most recent movie reminded me, I think, of that feeling of like, ooh, Wes is like something's pissed him off. Something's got really gotten under his skin. And returning to this movie for the first time in about five years last night, it was nice to go back to that time when he was in a little bit of his angry young man phase.
- [08:01]
Amanda Dobbins
And.
- [08:02]
Sean Fett
And people don't really think of Tenenbaums that way because of the Halloween costume aspect that you're describing. You know, Richie's headband and Gwyneth Paltrow's haircut and the overcoat and those perfect needle drops, the fur coat.
- [08:14]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, like, I was this close to pulling up the Lacoste dresses, like, last night while watching, and I was like, no, I'm older. I've moved past this. We've memed this.
- [08:23]
Sean Fett
There's nothing wrong with going back to it. But I think that him kind of finding a way to take those film influences that he loves, all these books that he loves so much. And also, just what you can feel is the mind of an imaginative Texan trying to wish himself away from where he's been born and what he's stuck.
- [08:41]
Amanda Dobbins
Into, you know, which I, you know, responded to. This movie came out when I was a senior in high school, you know, so I was like, oh, like, I too long for this. This place that did not ever exist. Right. That is, you know, imagination and is come from, like, reading a lot of books and watching a lot of movies and thinking like, oh, there could be a world where everyone is messed up, but in a very stylish literary way.
- [09:05]
Sean Fett
Yes. They're literally moving in slow motion. Elegantly, sadly. Yeah. I think like the 345th Street Y& the Public Archives and all of these places that seem like real places, that are inspired by real places. He takes this to kind of like an epic conclusion, I find in the Life Aquatic, where he's inventing creatures literally under sea. But that just that very slight turn of the dial of creativity inside an otherwise realistic, emotional world. It felt pretty novel. There's not, you can say, oh, this is kind of like Hal Ashby movies, or this is kind of like Truffaut movies. But his sensibility, especially if you had not caught up to Bottle Rocket and Rushmore.
- [09:47]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [09:48]
Sean Fett
It's like this film kind of got, like, brought in from another planet. And it is interesting because it is a template setter, but it is not. There's nothing that quite matches this very specific energy that this movie has.
- [10:00]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. Because it's in rewatching it after having spent more time, I would say, in the last few years watching all the new stuff and some of the more recent stuff. It is both, as you said, an epic, but very modest. It's the most grounded of of the movies. It is a family, you know, and they have some pretty like far flung and unusual problems, but they are. It is about a group of people coming back to one house and their connections are pretty primal and understandable, you know, with maybe the exception of Richie and Margot. But, you know, it's. So you're not underwater, right? You're not on a train in India. You're not like in, you know, exploring fascism in the 40s at like a beautiful pink hotel. So there is something that is, I think, like approachable, sounds kind of reductive, but the flights of fancy are built upon something like very, very simple.
- [11:03]
Sean Fett
Right.
- [11:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Honestly. And just a dad and some kids.
- [11:06]
Sean Fett
So this is not quite the earliest movie on our list. It's very close to being the Earl, the first released movie. It's the second earliest movie. And one of the things that I think is interesting about that is that this is still technically a 21st century movie. But all of those things that you're describing is like this is kind of the ultimate 21st century movie about the 20th century. So like the dissolution of the family unit in America is such a huge theme of all American art, basically from the establishment of the suburbs all the way through the 2000s. Right. Like that is something that the great novelists, filmmakers, they're constantly exploring and re exploring these ideas Wes consumed by the idea, the father figure. Every single one of his movies is about a father figure in one way or another. The absence of them, the presence of them, the domineering nature, the loss, whatever it might be. And this is like an all time father figure movie with an all time father figure performance. And you know, the men of the 20th and 21st century are still getting over this feeling. But as opposed to say in the Grand Budapest Hotel where Ray finds his character as kind of a stand in father Figure or, you know, in Moonrise Kingdom where you've got these kids kind of wandering around who are trying to escape the idea of parenthood. You know, front and center in the movie is Gene Hackman.
- [12:30]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [12:30]
Sean Fett
And we didn't plan for Gene Hackman to pass away this year. But I'm quite happy that we can at least honor his career on this list because he's one of our favorite actors. And this is the second to last movie that he made. And he reportedly did not enjoy his experience making this movie. And he and Wes did not see eye to eye. I was watching the Criterion edition of this movie last night, and there's a very short interview with Gene Hackman contemporaneous to the production of the movie. Less than three minutes, and he was. He was like smiling his way through it. But he.
- [13:02]
Amanda Dobbins
Like shades of Dustin Hoffman in the Megalopolis documentary.
- [13:06]
Sean Fett
Yeah, Very, very much. Very much like, I'm turning it on for you for as long as I possibly can. But he said something that I had not, I don't think I had heard before, which is that he. That Wes approached him, I guess, after the success of Rushmore and said, I'm writing something for you.
- [13:20]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [13:20]
Sean Fett
And Gene Hackman said, do not write something for me. I do not like to have things written for me. I. I like to receive something and bring myself to it.
- [13:28]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [13:28]
Sean Fett
And then west wrote it for him anyway, and he accepted it because it's obviously the part of Royal Tenenbaum is a great star part. It's a great movie performance. You can see why he couldn't resist taking it on. But you can see he brings like a little bit of agitation to the constructed world of Wes Anderson, which is.
- [13:47]
Amanda Dobbins
The magic of the performance and of this movie. Cause every other father figure in his movies, maybe with the exception of Benicio del Toro in Phoenician scheme, yes. Is playing the Anderson deadpan. Right. Has the anti charisma and the tension. And the theme of this movie in a lot of ways is about Gene Hackman is doing the Anderson lines and he is in the frame where he's supposed to be, but it's still just like affable, irresistible, animated Gene Hackman. And like I. It does seem that that's. That's the intention and everybody else really does stay in line, which is amazing. When we saw one battle after another. Something that PTA said in the Q and A was about how Benicio del Toro said, he asked that, just make sure I don't pick up anyone else's energy. You know, that's what I need.
- [14:49]
Sean Fett
That Leo's character has, like, is a live wire and Benicio wants to remain calm.
- [14:54]
Amanda Dobbins
Exactly. But I think, you know, that is a hard thing for actors to do, especially when you have such a charismatic performance. And none of the other actors in Tenenbaums pick up the energy.
- [15:04]
Sean Fett
It's so true.
- [15:05]
Amanda Dobbins
They stay really still. But again, he is supposed to be.
- [15:09]
Sean Fett
Irresistible, I would say, because of the zaniness of the movie. The Grand Budapest Hotel Fine's performance does. It's not the same level of affability is a good word for it, that Hackman's character, that sort of like mischievous old codger vibe that he's giving. But it's very rare. I mean, think of Tom Hanks in Asteroid City. Like, he is so buttoned up, so drained of his native charisma in that movie and Hackman won't allow it. And that resistance, actually, I think is part of what makes this such a good performance. Because it's such a well written character who likes. Is a bastard. Like, he is a motherfucker. And he's doing a lot of things that are just terrible as a parent, as a man. He lies, he cheats, he's been in prison, he's been stabbed because of his, you know, belching on deals. And he is not. He's not someone you should be rooting for.
- [15:59]
Amanda Dobbins
No.
- [16:00]
Sean Fett
And you're like rooting for his kids to forgive him in this movie because you want to see Gene Hackman happy. And that's a very special thing. I don't think that there should be more Titanic actors who should be able to tell Wes Anderson, like, I'm going to do my version and. And not do your acting style, but we're lucky to have gotten this one.
- [16:15]
Amanda Dobbins
Do you think, Is that the impression that you got that he was like, no, no, no, I'm doing it my way.
- [16:20]
Sean Fett
That's just my read. They kind of brokered a middle ground between the tightness that Anderson is looking for and the performance, that. Which I would say usually works for his movies. But think of the myriad wildly charismatic actors whose most subdued performances come in his movies. Whereas Hackman. Think of like Hackman and Stiller in the game room together when they pull the light and they're facing off of each other and the way that they are exploding at each other, you don't see that very much in his movies. That's very rare. And that's obviously two very combustible actors. But I just. I really, really love the energy that he brings to this movie and how different it feels from all of the other movies. Because everything else in the movie, the costuming, the color palette, the score that Mark Mothers Ball composes, the needle drops, this whole Old York City kind of feeling that we have watching the movie, it's all pretty familiar to the other stuff. It all matches up. But Royal is so different that it elevates the movie in a big way. There's a lot of other things that I really like about this movie. One thing that I wrote down that I hope you will appreciate. Near the end of the film, there's this panoramic shot where the camera is moving after Eli's car crash.
- [17:31]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. And up the windows and down the windows. And it kind of mirrors the opening K. Jude montage.
- [17:36]
Sean Fett
But he's capturing every single character in his movie in that sequence as the camera's movie. Now, it's a very showy kind of move. It's a real, like, this is my first big boy movie kind of move. But it. It felt like what a lot of his movies feel like, which is, look, reading a Richard Scarry book with a magnifying glass.
- [17:57]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, that's. I mean, it's a.
- [17:59]
Sean Fett
You know what I mean?
- [18:00]
Amanda Dobbins
And like, you know, time of life comp. For sure.
- [18:03]
Sean Fett
But, like, when you open a Richard scarry book, there's 30 characters and they're all doing something different.
- [18:08]
Amanda Dobbins
That's true. Except for the moms, who all have to be in the kitchen. We could update some of those.
- [18:12]
Sean Fett
We're not talking about the native patriarchy present in the scary literature. We're talking about the visual.
- [18:19]
Amanda Dobbins
Just saying we ripped out the Mother's Work is Never Done chapter.
- [18:24]
Sean Fett
Oh, jeez. Is that a chapter in a richest community?
- [18:25]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. And what do People Do All Day? Which is one of you know, a great question and a great title for a book.
- [18:31]
Sean Fett
What do they Do?
- [18:31]
Amanda Dobbins
That's what moms do.
- [18:32]
Sean Fett
Yeah, they podcast. That's what moms do. But you know that feeling of, like, when you're a kid and you open a book like that and there's a million things to look at and how do you decide what to look at? And his job as a filmmaker is.
- [18:43]
Amanda Dobbins
To move the camera.
- [18:44]
Sean Fett
Yeah, move the camera and figure out which guy to go to. And I kind of like him discovering his style. I like watching him figure out how to spend money and see how to expand the idea of what a Wes Anderson movie can be. So that's one thing. I mean, is this his best collection of needle drop moments? Was something I wanted to ask you.
- [19:08]
Amanda Dobbins
His most memorable. And I do think that I don't hear these days without thinking of Margot getting off of the Green Line bus. And some of it is, when do you encounter this music in your life? And did I hear a lot of these songs for the first time in this movie. I did.
- [19:31]
Sean Fett
I think that's true for many of his fans.
- [19:32]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure. But then also the ones that you do know, I mean, you know, me and Julio, every single time I just. I think of the three of them on the tricycles. It's just they're used so beautifully and intentionally. Like they are part of the fabric of the movie in a, you know, in a even more than a Scorsese way. You know, they are like almost diegetic.
- [19:56]
Sean Fett
Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely true of everyone. The Van Morrison song that closes the film as well, that you're right, there is a kind of literalization. The same way that Ooh La La and Rushmore similarly kind of feels like it is announcing the theme of the movie via pop music. He doesn't do this nearly as much.
- [20:13]
Amanda Dobbins
As he used to.
- [20:13]
Sean Fett
He's kind of become much more restrained with a lot of this stuff. He still has his. Like, the Kinks. The Band are one of his kinks. He always likes to find a place for the Kinks. But in this movie, he gives you both, right? Like, he gives you slightly more obscure Rolling Stone song and then he gives you Ruby Tuesday, right?
- [20:29]
Amanda Dobbins
As she is saying, like, I think we just need to be secretly in love with each other. You know, it is like. And then goodbye, Ruby Tuesday kiss. Okay. Yeah.
- [20:37]
Sean Fett
But then also he gives you two very obscure Bob Dylan songs. He gives you Wigwam, which then kind of became a well known song, I think, in the aftermath of its usage. And this. And then the theme from Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid in that amazing. You know, that's just like a wordless acoustic guitar composition. And it's just like one of those things where some filmmakers just have this tool. They just. And they can get away with obviousness and they can also become vehicles for discovery, for music taste, you know, for finding new genres of music that you otherwise might not have liked if they weren't matched with his imagery. So I think this is probably the most classic version of that. Even Judy is a punk, you know, while racing in the go karts too, with the Ramones, like. And him blending all these different styles the same way he's blending all these cinematic styles. This episode is presented by State Farm. You know what's even more impressive than being an expert at movie trivia? Being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by choosing to bundle home and auto insurance with State Farm. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [21:55]
LifeLock Announcer
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- [22:25]
Sean Fett
There's just not a huge history of classic filmmakers who can artfully blend comedy and not drama, but sadness. Yeah, that's a very sticky thing to do. And I was trying to think of the filmmakers in my life that I have loved who can do it. And it's like, it's James L. Brooks, it's Woody Allen, it's Billy Wilder, Ernst Lubitsch, sometimes. You know, I'm sure there are many more. Noah Baumbach, definitely Noah Baumbach. And obviously they have been collaborators and friends. And I did write down the Squid and the Whale as kind of like a companion film to this film, but it's a hard thing to do to capture not just sincerity, but like that ache that people have and still making you laugh. And this is near the top for me in terms of his slate of films too, that's able to do that.
- [23:21]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Do you think some of that is generational for us? Because this is one that for you and me is like, you know, like the Bible. It's in the. And then there's is a school of people who have just never really gotten on the Wes Anderson train or they admire it formally.
- [23:40]
Sean Fett
Yeah. I'm sure this whole list is informed by how old we are. Right?
- [23:44]
Amanda Dobbins
I know, but like, but the Wes Anderson thing in particular and like that particular brand of sadness does feel like it came also to us at the moment. I mean, he is slightly older than us, but like of a generation and expressing him.
- [23:58]
Sean Fett
I was 16 when bottle rocket came out.
- [23:59]
Amanda Dobbins
So.
- [23:59]
Sean Fett
Yeah, I mean, I think you and I both grew up in a house that our dad didn't live in. You know what I mean? Like, that's a. If there's a movie like that that has that scope of emotionality like that that is very powerful and also has.
- [24:13]
Amanda Dobbins
Gwyneth Paltrow in just incredible.
- [24:15]
Sean Fett
Huge for you.
- [24:16]
Amanda Dobbins
Should I Get into that eyeliner. I was like, should I get a bottle?
- [24:19]
Sean Fett
It's heavy.
- [24:20]
Amanda Dobbins
I know.
- [24:21]
Sean Fett
She's wearing a lot of it.
- [24:22]
Amanda Dobbins
I know I was. But I was given some eyeliner recently.
- [24:24]
Sean Fett
Really?
- [24:25]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, I haven't tried it. By Victoria Beckham makeup. Thank you so much.
- [24:28]
Sean Fett
I thought you were just gonna stop after Beckham. That would have been amazing. You didn't stop talking after Beckham.
- [24:33]
Amanda Dobbins
Posh knows me personally, though. I welcome any overtures, but I just.
- [24:38]
Sean Fett
Podcast is getting big. You never know. Do you think the Beckhams are sitting at home quietly listening to our review of Black Bag, thinking, I quite like this film as well.
- [24:46]
Amanda Dobbins
You know, David makes honey now, so really anything is possible.
- [24:50]
Sean Fett
You're a consumer of items in jars, as we know.
- [24:53]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. That looks. Do we think it's a wig? Gwyneth Paltrow?
- [24:57]
Sean Fett
I don't.
- [24:58]
Amanda Dobbins
You think it is. And I guess you're just getting, like, daily touch ups. I don't either, but it is really hard to maintain that level of that sharpness. Yeah.
- [25:08]
Sean Fett
Yeah, it is very. That's quite a line.
- [25:10]
Amanda Dobbins
I know. Yeah.
- [25:11]
Sean Fett
Yeah. I'm sure it was just snipped every day. I'm sure, you know, makeup and hair.
- [25:14]
Amanda Dobbins
To be pulled down, but it looks great. I don't think I could pull it.
- [25:17]
Sean Fett
Off, but I. I am covetous of Luke Wilson's hair in this film.
- [25:24]
Amanda Dobbins
Before or after the.
- [25:26]
Sean Fett
Well, he looks great with a shaved head.
- [25:28]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [25:28]
Sean Fett
But his long hair and beard. Speaking of the hiding.
- [25:32]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:32]
Sean Fett
That is the ultimate hide.
- [25:33]
Amanda Dobbins
And the. And the. Would you.
- [25:35]
Sean Fett
Well, I want to talk to you about this, so I don't know. I'm sure you don't know about this because I assume you did not watch this, but on the ringer fantasy football draft that I participated in in August when I was supposed to be on.
- [25:46]
Amanda Dobbins
Vacation, I think I was texting you. I was somewhere cool and you were doing fantasy football.
- [25:52]
Sean Fett
I was sitting with Joe House in van.
- [25:53]
Amanda Dobbins
Oh, I think. Yeah. I was like. But I remember being like, I think you're drafting right now.
- [25:57]
Sean Fett
Yes, you did text me during that. One of the clever things that the fantasy guys came up with was that there's a punishment. And the punishment for the loser of the. Of the fantasy football league, the person who comes in last place, which could definitely be me, is that the punishments are individuated.
- [26:13]
Amanda Dobbins
Oh, okay.
- [26:14]
Sean Fett
And so you can draft your punishment. So there was a list of 15 available punishments. And one of your draft picks would be what you would. What punishment you would get. Cousin Sal, for example, drafted having to get an ear pierced.
- [26:27]
Amanda Dobbins
Wow. Live on camera.
- [26:29]
Sean Fett
I don't know if that was stipulated, but they should for the pod. I think I was the first person to draft a punishment because the punishment, and some of these were extremely benign and some of them were deeply malignant, was to podcast while wearing a headband, but never address it.
- [26:52]
Amanda Dobbins
And that's.
- [26:53]
Sean Fett
That's what I chose to dress it. You can do whatever you like. You're. You're free to.
- [26:57]
Amanda Dobbins
I'll just laugh the whole time, but.
- [26:59]
Sean Fett
If, in fact, I do finish in last and I'm. I'm. I'm 0 for 1. I lost to Craig Horbeck in the first week.
- [27:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [27:04]
Sean Fett
And I'm. I'm essentially tied with Bill Simmons going into a night. Okay. With two Monday Night Football games.
- [27:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [27:11]
Sean Fett
And we both have two players left to play, so it's a showdown. So I could be owing two.
- [27:16]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [27:16]
Sean Fett
And if I'm 02, it's getting away from me pretty quick. And if I. If I lose this league, which is possible. I had the 10th pick, and I'm the least informed person about football who was on the entire draft. I will wear the Richie Tenenbaum headband.
- [27:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [27:29]
Sean Fett
That is going to be. That's that a long winded way of saying. Yeah, that maybe. Maybe I'll wear the whole outfit. Maybe I'll wear this tan suit with the tennis. But the tennis polo and the big brown glasses.
- [27:44]
Amanda Dobbins
I'm open to it.
- [27:45]
Sean Fett
And then your beard.
- [27:45]
Amanda Dobbins
You're working through the hair will be sort of. You gonna get it long or you'll do what you can. Okay.
- [27:51]
Sean Fett
I mean, could I do an entire pod about, like, wicked for good dressed as Richie Tenenbaum? I think I could.
- [27:58]
Amanda Dobbins
I think I would. I would enjoy it.
- [28:00]
Sean Fett
You know, I know Richie is so great. You know, Luke Wilson, who Chris Ryan once famously said could have been Harrison Ford.
- [28:07]
Amanda Dobbins
As I was watching, I was like, was this the podcast where he said. And it's not because he did.
- [28:12]
Sean Fett
It wasn't on that one.
- [28:13]
Amanda Dobbins
Chris and Andy did Royal Tendon Bobby.
- [28:14]
Sean Fett
It was a very good episod of that show that Chris Nandy did. Everybody's performance in this movie is good and a little bit different from what they're best at, with the exception of Luke's brother Owen.
- [28:26]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [28:27]
Sean Fett
I just. I made a list of 10 things that I. I love about this movie that I think makes it worthy. And number six is just Eli Cash. Yeah. Who I think is a perfect movie character and so funny and so sad. You know, Kind of the embodiment of the strain of this movie. And a ridiculous. Yeah, a complete buffoon.
- [28:46]
Amanda Dobbins
Him just hiding in the closet in a cowboy hat and in his underwear. Yeah. Looks great.
- [28:51]
Sean Fett
Well, he thinks he's being alluring or something. You know, I miss this Owen Wilson. I miss this guy.
- [28:58]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure, we all do.
- [28:58]
Sean Fett
I don't. I don't totally know what happened. I know there were. There's a lot of speculation about what happened. Obviously, he's fine personally, physically, but his. What he was interested in doing and the kinds of movies and stories that he was telling and what he and Wes were writing together. I wish they'd write another movie together because I can feel his sense of humor in this movie that is a little different from when he's teaming up with Roman Coppola or Noah Baumbach or any of his other co writers. There's a madcap sensibility that Owen Wilson brings to the movies that I really, really enjoy. And he's hilarious in this movie. And this idea. I don't. I don't know that I had a Necessarily an exact one to one with this, but that idea of maybe this. Maybe it was my family, because I had a big family, but this idea of like, people are always coming over to your house.
- [29:46]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [29:46]
Sean Fett
Because they want to be.
- [29:47]
Amanda Dobbins
Longing to be a part of that. I mean, I was an only child, so I definitely got that for sure.
- [29:52]
Sean Fett
Yeah. I mean, that's a very interesting.
- [29:53]
Amanda Dobbins
I didn't send anyone my college grades.
- [29:55]
Sean Fett
No. No. I hoped no one saw them. That was kind of my hope.
- [30:00]
Amanda Dobbins
I don't matter.
- [30:01]
Sean Fett
Once they don't matter. They don't.
- [30:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Just a tip to all you kids out there.
- [30:04]
Sean Fett
I love.
- [30:05]
Amanda Dobbins
Don't fail out. Don't lose your scholarship.
- [30:07]
Sean Fett
Don't fail.
- [30:08]
Amanda Dobbins
Otherwise, who cares?
- [30:10]
Sean Fett
I couldn't agree more. We're on the same page there. There are parents at home right now who are paying $180,000 a year for college who are like, shut the fuck up.
- [30:17]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, that's a question at this point. Like, do we really. What's the worth? But, you know, that's okay.
- [30:22]
Sean Fett
Do you think kids should not go to college?
- [30:25]
Amanda Dobbins
No, I think if you. I loved college. So if you have the opportunity and.
- [30:29]
Sean Fett
It'S, you know, that's where you discovered alcohol.
- [30:32]
Amanda Dobbins
That's true.
- [30:32]
Sean Fett
I don't know.
- [30:33]
Amanda Dobbins
That's where I discovered it. It's just where I really, you know, primed my taste.
- [30:40]
Sean Fett
The only other sequence that really jumped out to me as both more clever and more sad than I had remembered was The Raleigh and Richie discovering Margot's journey through romance, her various romantic escapades, her previous marriage, all the men that she's found before. Like, there's an incredible level of. It kind of becomes like an act of satire at that point when it's going on. But it's also just like, very, very funny and beautiful with Dudley also sitting there. Shout out to Dudley, another great character.
- [31:19]
Amanda Dobbins
Dudley's World. I had forgotten the name of the book.
- [31:21]
Sean Fett
All the book covers are.
- [31:22]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, all of it is so good.
- [31:24]
Sean Fett
Yeah. So I mean, all of this stuff put in a blender and you get an amazing movie. Plus, you get, I don't know, like, 10 of the funniest lines of the century.
- [31:35]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [31:35]
Sean Fett
You've got. This is my adopted daughter, Margot.
- [31:38]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure.
- [31:38]
Sean Fett
You've got. You used to be a genius. You got heartbreaking. I've had a tough year, dad.
- [31:43]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Sean Fett
You know, Ben Stiller, interesting actor. Like, not always an actor with the most range, but there is, like, a wounded quality to him.
- [31:54]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [31:54]
Sean Fett
That when he lets go. He's very good in this.
- [31:57]
Amanda Dobbins
On this rewatch, I was like, oh, this is more Chaz's movie than I remembered. They all kind of get their moments, but that. And then in the ambulance.
- [32:06]
Sean Fett
Yes. He gets that. That incredibly sad moment.
- [32:09]
Amanda Dobbins
And the smile from Gene Hackman is. It's really nice.
- [32:12]
Sean Fett
Yeah. And a movie, too, where a narrator helps and doesn't hurt. You know, like Alec Baldwin's reading of the sort of opening graphs of individual chapters of this story could have felt very mannered and phony, and somehow it just works because it does give you that quality of reading a good book.
- [32:35]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [32:35]
Sean Fett
And that's very unusual. Usually when you're hearing a narrator, you're.
- [32:38]
Amanda Dobbins
Like, uh, oh, you didn't have anything. Or you're taping this together with voiceover after the fact. And no, it's embedded in. And also quotable in its own way.
- [32:46]
Sean Fett
Very much so. I'm very sorry for your loss. Your mother was a terribly attractive woman.
- [32:52]
Amanda Dobbins
I think that one was when I was watching it last night and Zach laughed from the other room and came in and sat down and was like, well, okay, this is the one that I use all the time.
- [33:02]
Sean Fett
You do this one, then.
- [33:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Well, everyone knows Custer died at Little Bighorn. What this book presupposes is maybe he didn't.
- [33:09]
Sean Fett
Which is delivered whilst walking down a hallway and being interviewed because Eli is a world famous author.
- [33:15]
Amanda Dobbins
He's fake. Cormac McCarthy. It's really funny.
- [33:18]
Sean Fett
Very good idea. Hell of a damn grave. Wish it were mine. When we're sitting in front of a shot of a giant gravestone and we haven't really said the name Danny Glover yet, but, you know, Hackman and Glover, you know, two old dogs and going toe to toe in the kitchen scene where Glover's like, did you just call me Coltrane? And Hackman's like, no, that scene also is dynamite. And then to me, the most heartbreaking scene in the movie.
- [33:44]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [33:45]
Sean Fett
Which also feels like a little bit of an invention, but maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, is near the end of the film, Royal takes Margot out for ice cream.
- [33:51]
Amanda Dobbins
I'll have a butterscotch sundae, I guess.
- [33:53]
Sean Fett
Yes. And it seems like he's not just making up for lost time, but he's trying to do something he'd never done before. He never spent any individual time with his adopted daughter, and she is disassociated and depressed, and she says, you probably don't even know my middle name. And Royal says, that's a trick question. You don't have one. And Margot very quickly says, helen. And Hackman, an incredible moment, says, that was my mother's name. And Margot says, I know it was.
- [34:24]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [34:24]
Sean Fett
And just a very economical, beautiful piece of writing. Two great actors.
- [34:30]
Amanda Dobbins
Yes.
- [34:31]
Sean Fett
I really. I love that scene. There's a lot of scenes like that in this movie.
- [34:34]
Amanda Dobbins
I also like the payoff then. When. Or not the payoff, but like the coda to that, when Margot's new play debuts. And it is just like a reenactment.
- [34:44]
Sean Fett
Of Levinson's in the Trees. Right.
- [34:46]
Amanda Dobbins
One of the kids scenes that we've seen earlier, and they cut to the audience, and everyone is still, except for Hackman, just cracking up at his own character stand. And it's really nice.
- [34:57]
Sean Fett
It is really great. Let's talk about this movie's legacy just a little bit. So it did get an original screenplay Oscar nomination. It did not win. It was also nominated for a BAFTA and a WGA in that category, Hackman got a Globe nomination for comedy or musical.
- [35:12]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Sean Fett
If this were Wes Anderson's 10th movie instead of his third, it would have nine Golden Globe nominations.
- [35:19]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [35:20]
Sean Fett
But it's one of those ones that kind of like, got everyone's attention.
- [35:24]
Amanda Dobbins
Yes.
- [35:24]
Sean Fett
And then, you know, not all of his films are warmly received by the institutions of awards bodies, but a lot of them are now. And it kind of woke a bunch of people up.
- [35:36]
Amanda Dobbins
And.
- [35:36]
Sean Fett
Yeah, I mean, let's just. Let's just go through the movies very quickly. So Life Aquatic comes after this in three years. Darjeeling three years later. Fantastic. Mr. Fox two years later. Moonrise Kingdom three years later. Grand Budapest two years later. Then Isle of Dogs, the French Dispatch of the Liberty, Kansas, Evening Sun, Asteroid City, and the Phoenician Scheme. This is, as I said, the first movie that Scott Rudin produces for him, and Rudin produces for him all the way through 2018, essentially all the way up until Scott. You know, the revelations about Scott Rudin's behavior as a producer. And this is like he. There are a handful of filmmakers that that producer kind of grabbed and. And propelled forward and protected, you know, and allowed to work in the way that they wanted to work. And, you know, Wes Anderson was going to be successful regardless of whether or not somebody came along. But that is a. An incredible run of movies with a very defined style operating in its very own, very specific way that over time was allowed to develop into success. So this is something that I'm kind of obsessed with on the show, as, you know, where not just jet streaming young independent filmmakers directly into franchise films, but, like, letting them grow consistently and hoping that those filmmakers will, like, want to take incremental strides in terms of scope and creatively with the kinds of movies that they want to make. Because, you know, Life Aquatic is a much bigger movie. It's a movie on the ocean. It's a movie with all this puppetry and design. It's not a movie just set in a house. Like this film, you know, this is like a logical step from the grounds of Rushmore.
- [37:12]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, it's a ship for a lot of it. But they go places on the ship.
- [37:15]
Sean Fett
Yes, they do go. I mean, there's like an island sequence. There's all kinds. There's guns. There's all kinds of stuff happening in that.
- [37:21]
Amanda Dobbins
There are BB guns in this.
- [37:22]
Sean Fett
It's a good point.
- [37:23]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [37:23]
Sean Fett
Let me ask you a question about Chaz's BB in his hand.
- [37:25]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [37:26]
Sean Fett
Why not just have a very quick surgery to have that sucker taken out?
- [37:28]
Amanda Dobbins
It's a really great point, but, you know, in the magical 70s, it's actually 2001 New York. They don't really. They're not as uptight with their parenting, you know, or their. Or their medical intervention.
- [37:42]
Sean Fett
Would you shoot your son with a BB gun?
- [37:44]
Amanda Dobbins
No, I would not.
- [37:45]
Sean Fett
Okay.
- [37:45]
Amanda Dobbins
Would my son shoot me with a BB gun? Like, probably pretty likely.
- [37:48]
Sean Fett
I would say, yeah, might be. Maybe until, like, 18 or 19, they would think that's a good idea. And, yeah, this is just a. This is a darn special movie. Do you feel like we have found the right placement for this film?
- [37:59]
Amanda Dobbins
No, but I think we're gonna feel that way every single time from here on out. Like as we said, it's just. It's bangers all the way down this list.
- [38:08]
Sean Fett
This is number 12.
- [38:09]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [38:09]
Sean Fett
So 11 more. We've gotta do 11 of these in three and a half months.
- [38:13]
Amanda Dobbins
We can do it. They're some of our favorite films of all time.
- [38:15]
Sean Fett
That is true.
- [38:16]
Amanda Dobbins
It's gonna be okay.
- [38:17]
Sean Fett
Recommended if you like.
- [38:19]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, Wes Anderson movies.
- [38:22]
Sean Fett
I mean, every Wes Anderson.
- [38:23]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure.
- [38:23]
Sean Fett
If you have seen every Wes Anderson movie except for this movie, you're a sociopath. That's a very odd choice. I wrote down Hannah and Her Sisters, which is a rare combination of that. That sadness and that comedy.
- [38:36]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [38:37]
Sean Fett
Terms of Endearment. Good one, James L. Brooks. Harold and Maude certainly like the off kilter approach to characterization and comedy and.
- [38:47]
Amanda Dobbins
The seventies of it all, for sure.
- [38:49]
Sean Fett
And overcoats as well. And suicide attempts. I mean, there's a great many things that are. Harold and Maude is very much in the bloodstream of the Royal Tenenbaums and Squid and the Whale and I think Arrested Development is an interesting one. If you liked that sitcom about a crazy wealthy family, then there's definitely a lot to. To match this up with.
- [39:14]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [39:14]
Sean Fett
Am I going to wake up tomorrow and regret this not being Grand Budapest? Because I know I would never be able to get moonrise, but I don't know if we fought enough about it being Grand Budapest.
- [39:24]
Amanda Dobbins
You are, and I'm sure you'll feel that way. And I love Grand Budapest, but Grand Budapest does not exist. I mean, certainly in the scope of Hollywood, but just even ideologically, creatively, without the blueprint of Royal Tenenbaums.
- [39:45]
Sean Fett
So one more question for you.
- [39:47]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Honor the thing.
- [39:50]
Sean Fett
You know, I get it, I get it. Speaking of that, it's September 15th right now when we're recording.
- [39:55]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [39:57]
Sean Fett
It's starting to feel like the Paul Thomas Anderson year is happening. Right. Where at the Academy Awards and maybe even at the box office, there will be this sense of like, if not now, when to honor this person.
- [40:09]
Amanda Dobbins
Unless, you know. Well, it's actually, we'll talk about this later. But it's shaping. It's like a Shakespeare in Love vs Saving Private Ryan year. It's starting.
- [40:17]
Sean Fett
So it is. But I mean, no, I'm on the.
- [40:19]
Amanda Dobbins
Other side this time.
- [40:21]
Sean Fett
But the flip side of that is though, we have this conversation for the, literally the next six months. But in this case, Hamnet is saving Private Ryan and Shakespeare in Love.
- [40:34]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. But yeah.
- [40:36]
Sean Fett
Is one battle after another. You know, it's like hamnets are. You know, Chloe Zhao's already been honored. PTA is not. But I bring this up because two years ago, Wes Anderson did in fact win an Academy Award for Henry Sugar.
- [40:47]
Amanda Dobbins
The wonderful film, which was very good.
- [40:48]
Sean Fett
But like a very good short film. But it felt like, give the man.
- [40:51]
Amanda Dobbins
A big kid Oscar.
- [40:52]
Sean Fett
Right. He doesn't even have a screenplay Oscar. And he's one of the signature American filmmakers over the last 25 years. There's no question about it. And I'm. I. Do you think he will ever have his moment? Because he has. He does have so many detractors.
- [41:08]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [41:08]
Sean Fett
There are many people who listen to this show who don't get it.
- [41:10]
Amanda Dobbins
So going into, you know, French Dispatch, Asteroid City and Phoenician Scheme are kind of like a trilogy on. On their own. With a lot of links to Tenenbaums, but. And emotional in their own way, but way more like diorama. Way more like, how big can we build this dollhouse?
- [41:30]
Sean Fett
Tightly constructed. Yes.
- [41:31]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. And how many dollhous we, like, build around it.
- [41:34]
Sean Fett
Yes. So meta explorational, I would say.
- [41:38]
Amanda Dobbins
So they're not as open as Tenenbaums is.
- [41:42]
Sean Fett
Yeah, they feel. They feel a little suffocating to people who are not on the wavelength.
- [41:46]
Amanda Dobbins
But, you know, to. To bring it back to. To pta, We. We were talking about one battle after another. Like after licorice pizza and how much more I can appreciate licorice pizza now that I'm like, well, sometimes you do your character studies or, you know, artists can do a lot of different things, especially artists at this level. So if he wants to do his little triptych and then maybe. Maybe he'll want to do something else and maybe he won't. I think that he would need to be a little bit broader in order to really get the academy back. But I don't know. That's. It's Wes Anderson. It's no Bombach. It's Greta Gerwig like that. You know that our class, our faves haven't had their Oscars yet. Yeah, I'm. I hope they'll get there.
- [42:37]
Sean Fett
Yeah. That it's normally okay. Because obviously we always. We. In some ways, you don't want them to win because it's cooler because, yeah, Stanley Kubrick never won. You know what I mean? Like, all the. All the great never won. Hitchcock never won.
- [42:48]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [42:49]
Sean Fett
But Tom Cruise.
- [42:50]
Amanda Dobbins
Not yet.
- [42:50]
Sean Fett
Tom Cruise never won. But with someone like Wes, who is so clearly working in a very individual style, but in such a storied tradition of people who have been honored, like James L. Brooks, like Woody Allen.
- [43:06]
Amanda Dobbins
Right.
- [43:07]
Sean Fett
I don't. I don't know. I don't. I guess. I don't know. I'm curious. Not that the Academy Awards would. Would certify his career in any way, but he is the kind of filmmaker who is. He's a beacon of independent. Of major independent cinema.
- [43:21]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. And that's turning out so well right now.
- [43:24]
Sean Fett
So it's really not. Yeah, it's really not.
- [43:27]
Amanda Dobbins
Clearly everyone wants to invest more in it.
- [43:30]
Sean Fett
Number 11 is coming up. I can't wait. I can't wait to re watch number 11.
- [43:34]
Amanda Dobbins
I don't remember what it is and I just looked at the list.
- [43:37]
Sean Fett
I won't give you a single hint.
- [43:38]
Amanda Dobbins
Hold on.
- [43:39]
Sean Fett
I'm extremely.
- [43:40]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, now I remember what it is.
- [43:41]
Sean Fett
Yes.
- [43:41]
Amanda Dobbins
Oh, it's a good one again.
- [43:43]
Sean Fett
It's like, what is it doing at number 11? It's very smart about how this has shaken out is something I'll say about it.
- [43:48]
Amanda Dobbins
We are good at our jobs, which is making a list of our own.
- [43:51]
Sean Fett
Opinions that is entirely true. Thanks to everyone for listening. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. We will be back later this week with a very special physical media extravaganza. See you then.