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- [00:00]
Sean Fantasy
This episode of the Big Picture is presented by Starbucks. We are big Starbucks Frappuccino fans over here. So when we heard about the new Strato Frappuccino blended beverage, we had to try it. It's a crave worthy iced blended beverage topped with cold foam, making for delicious layers of flavor.
- [00:15]
Amanda Dobbins
I love how Starbucks leans into the seasons, especially summer. From vibrant refreshers to cold blended beverages, there's always something exciting to sip on.
- [00:24]
Sean Fantasy
Available now for a limited time only. Your Strato Frappuccino blended beverage is ready, Starbucks. I'm Sean Fantasy. I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Moneyball and how can you not be romantic about baseball. We are here live at the Music Box Theater. We've just watched this wonderful movie and let's talk about it briefly. I'll give some details for the audience. Even though they've just sat here and watched the movie and watched the credits and they know everything I'm about to say. Hang with me. Directed by Bennett Miller. Written by Steven Zaillian and Aaron Sorkin. Originally to be directed by Amanda's beloved Steven Soderbergh. We will get into that. Starring Brad Pitt, Jonah Hill. Who else is in this movie? Chris Pratt, Robin Wright, Spike Jones.
- [01:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Psh. Thank you. Philip Seymour Hoffman.
- [01:31]
Sean Fantasy
Philip Seymour Hoffman. God bless the dead. And this movie was. I'm serious. This is an Academy Award nominated film, considered one of the best movies of the century by many people, including us. It's been an object of affection and fascination on the show for years. Why did we pick this one?
- [01:52]
Amanda Dobbins
This is a passion project. And I just gotta say, it did warm my heart. We did not announce what movie we would be screening before it started here in the Music Box theater night. So you did not know. Did anyone guess? Raising your hands. Okay. Yeah. All right. I would say that's like 5% of the room, which is good. Congratulations. You should feel good about yourself.
- [02:12]
Sean Fantasy
But everyone wanted it to be the Dark Knight.
- [02:15]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, I think.
- [02:16]
Sean Fantasy
Sorry, bros. Yeah.
- [02:20]
Amanda Dobbins
Listen, I tried, but also I didn't try. Anyway, it really warmed my heart to hear a large room of people cheering, even if you were just being nice when you realized that it was Moneyball. Cause this is. It is one of my favorite movies certainly of the decade. And I do understand why. It hits a lot of soft spots for me. But the best sports movie of the decade, one of the, for my money, the best performance by one of the great movie stars of our generation. Written or at least Half written by one of the great screenwriters of my life when he is being interpreted by other directors. Thank you so much. Please put a note in that.
- [03:05]
Sean Fantasy
And you know, what about Being the Ricardos?
- [03:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Remember when I literally put off the birth of my child for one day to see whether Being the Ricardos got nominated? It didn't. That's okay. And just at some point, it is like the line of the movie, like, how can you not be romantic about this movie? Which is a lot of things that are not romantic. It's about math. It is about, like, a lot of math. And there are just a lot of numbers at screen all the time. Everybody in. It's pretty angry and a little touchy, and no one is wearing flattering pants. And it's just. I mean, it's really, really tough. And it is. There's a lot of archival. There are a lot of. It's very piecey. And I think the score is really magical, but it's not really swooning until it is. So it doesn't immediately jump out as a sentimental, just irresistible classical sports movie, but to me, it is.
- [04:07]
Chris Ryan
This episode is brought to you by Netflix's Happy Giltmore 2. We're back. Thirty years ago, he decided to give golf a try. Now he's ready for the happiest comeback of all time. Adam Sandler's beloved golf legend returns to the green for another swing at glory. Just remember, it's all in the hips. Also starring Ben Stiller. I like him. Julie Bowen, like her. And Benito. Antonio Martinez Ocasio. Happy Gilmore 2. Now streaming only on Netflix.
- [04:36]
Sean Fantasy
It's a weird movie. It's based on a nonfiction book by Michael Lewis, which was a wild bestseller. I don't know if I've ever asked you, have you read the book Moneyball?
- [04:43]
Amanda Dobbins
No. Of course.
- [04:44]
Sean Fantasy
Okay. Any Moneyball? Fans of the book? Yeah.
- [04:48]
Amanda Dobbins
You read it. Has anyone read Bill James? Yeah. Crickets. Okay. All right. We. We got one. Shaking his hand.
- [04:55]
Sean Fantasy
I mean, Bill James was a great thinker about baseball, other stuff. He's pretty weird. He's got a lot of feelings about who killed jfk. I don't know if people know that.
- [05:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Don't we all? Chris Ryan is in the room.
- [05:04]
Sean Fantasy
CR is here, and he is currently going through the deleted files to figure out who killed jfk. So he won't be with us tonight. He will be with us tomor.
- [05:16]
Amanda Dobbins
So what you do is you just control f for things you're interested in. This was what we talked about at dinner anyway, and that's what A lot.
- [05:22]
Sean Fantasy
Of baseball general managers started doing with Bill James when he was exploring saber metrics in baseball. The book itself is fantastic. It's like a genuine page turner. It kind of reads like a thriller, even though it's covering sports events that most people who are reading the book already knew occurred. The other thing about the movie and the book is that, you know, it's largely chronicling a kind of modest success at best, but basically it's another story about a loser. We just did Inside Llewyn Davis in this series, which was a story about somebody who doesn't quite fulfill his promise and become as famous as he hopes to become. Billy Beane still has not won a World Series. He's no longer the general manager or executive president of the A's. In fact, the A's don't even play in Oakland anymore. And weirdly, this movie still has this incredible sentimental hold on us even. Like, I don't care about the Ace. No, like, at all.
- [06:13]
Amanda Dobbins
You know, I think part of. We like it because it is a baseball movie and you are a baseball psychotic. I do love baseball. Not as much as Sean, but it is even beyond a baseball movie at this point. It is just sort of a pop cultural phenomenon. Like I, you know, I sat and watched the Hatterberg home run. Cause I really wanted to see that with a crowd of people. And then the Brad Pitt head swoop up is like. It's a meme now at this point. Right. You know, and it is. And now I think like the Moneyball of something, or they're moneyballing this as shorthand for whatever. So it is. It's pretty weird that a nonfiction math and business text became like a very. A movie that was nominated for many Oscars and that is now pop cultural shorthand for whenever anyone's feeling misunderstood in the workplace and just. Yeah, you want me to talk? Yeah, when I point at you. Yeah.
- [07:13]
Sean Fantasy
Do you relate more to Billy or more to Peter Brand, Jonah Hill's character, who is based on the real life figure Paul Di Podesta, but slightly changed.
- [07:21]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, I know you relate to Billy, but. I do. Do you or do you feel. Do you feel more like a Peter.
- [07:28]
Sean Fantasy
To hear you say that?
- [07:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, yeah.
- [07:30]
Sean Fantasy
I mean, I was never drafted by the Mets initially, though. I wish I was.
- [07:33]
Amanda Dobbins
In many ways, the Mets let you down every year. Thank you.
- [07:38]
Sean Fantasy
Just mean.
- [07:39]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Sorry. If you're listening at home, I'm wearing a Cubs jersey right now, which was extra mean to Sean. Yeah. Go Cubs. Sorry again about today.
- [07:49]
Sean Fantasy
Amanda has allegiance to, like, Nine baseball teams.
- [07:51]
Amanda Dobbins
I have renounced the Braves. Okay. It's not worth it. Yeah. But also, you know, when you're angry, you don't really speak. And that's true. You snack a lot.
- [08:06]
Sean Fantasy
I do love to snack.
- [08:07]
Amanda Dobbins
So in that sense, you seem pretty. Billy.
- [08:10]
Sean Fantasy
You know, I have a young daughter.
- [08:12]
Amanda Dobbins
There you go. Yeah. You wanna talk about it?
- [08:14]
Sean Fantasy
Well, you know, I don't think I really thought about the movie in that way when I saw it back when it was released 15 years ago. And now I watch this. And this is a movie about, like, a dad who's kind of fucked up, you know, and who's not really coming to grips with what's actually important in his life. And he thinks that winning is everything, and he thinks that success and, you know, it's a character study. But a guy who thought he was the prince who was promised and has spent his adult life reckoning with the fact that he was not. And so he's constantly trying to rebuild the promise that he thought he was going to achieve and he can't. And he doesn't realize really that the promise is in his family and the daughter that he is a father to. And it's a very beautiful movie if you see it in that very specific respect. If you peel away the memes and he gets on base and you know, Jonah Hill mugging while reading statistics off. Like, if you peel all that stuff away, you can tell that the people who were drawn to this movie. Bennett Miller is not a sports movie hero. He's made two sports movies, but he's interested in people and characters, and that's obviously what drew Pitt to it. And it's just a very affecting story about the very unique relationship between dads and daughters. You have a very strong relationship with your dad as well.
- [09:23]
Amanda Dobbins
I did. I went to a lot of baseball games with him growing up and I do think he likes this movie. He has. We've had mixed results with him on 25 for 25 so far. Yeah. Do. I'm hoping that this gets a thumbs up.
- [09:35]
Sean Fantasy
So he's been saying, like, the handmaiden, you guys suck. Has he been going on Reddit?
- [09:43]
Amanda Dobbins
Wouldn't that be incredible? I don't think he knows, actually. Maybe he does. Let's not go there. Yeah.
- [09:51]
Sean Fantasy
The other thing that's interesting about it as a sports movie is the big game is just like a winning streak game in the middle of the season.
- [09:59]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [09:59]
Sean Fantasy
There's no dramatic playoff moment where they're in the World Series. They don't even make it to The World Series, you know, and there are sports movies and baseball movies that have done that before. Like, you know, Major League famously doesn't end with winning the World Series. But the movie almost doesn't care if you don't get that. It's not really ultimately interested in that idea of success. It's about the idea. It's about the. Whether the success of the idea happens. The idea of, like, changing the way that people think about something that feels, like, dogmatic and systematic and breaking that down, too. Which is pretty heady for a mainstream September release starring Brad Pitt. I give them an incredible amount of.
- [10:37]
Amanda Dobbins
Credit for, to quote Billy Beane, it has to mean something. But in terms of the actual baseball, you only see the moments of failure throughout the movie, with the exception of the Hatterberg homerun. But even that streak, I guess they recreate and kind of put together some archival of certain wins or victories or signs in the stands, but you don't see the 11 runs that they score. You don't see those first three innings. You sit through the very punishing error after error after error. And the movie really is more interested in the failure in the. Not quite getting there. Or what are we trying to get out of this? Or how can we punish you? It is like people are very mad in this movie most of the time.
- [11:26]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah. I think there's something to the idea of being obsessed with your job and thinking that there is an inherent moral value in the work that you're doing, even if what you're doing is kind of bullshit entertainment. I don't relate to this at all. It's amazing. I can even enjoy this movie with that as one of its core ideas. But you can tell there are many shots of Brad Pitt looking into the middle distance, pondering his lost fate.
- [11:59]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [11:59]
Sean Fantasy
Which sounds really boring.
- [12:01]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure.
- [12:03]
Sean Fantasy
So why do you think that effectively works?
- [12:06]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, it's a good face. And let's be real, I slandered the pants, but everything else is working well. But understatement. I think it's his best performance, and I think that some of it is that it does not ask him to speak as much as some other movies do. And he is very good at reacting, or he's very good at looking pissed or looking regretful or looking just like he would like to be somewhere else unless he's eating a Twinkie. And, you know, we talk about all the time that, like, movie star thing that you can't. That he holds the frame. But this movie opens with a bunch of footage, old footage from the Playoffs and then him sitting alone in a stadium, just turning a radio on and on. And it is riveting. And it's just because he can hold the frame. And he also, I think, found the right role in this of someone who is emotionally repressed, has a lot of things that he would like to change about his life. And it's also pretty physical. He doesn't have to play baseball in this, but it is very athletic. He's throwing stuff around a lot in it. And that is a good match for Pitt as well and a good match for the movie.
- [13:33]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah, that Gatorade cooler takes a beating in that scene.
- [13:36]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, the desk. Yeah.
- [13:38]
Sean Fantasy
Incredible supporting cast in this movie. Some of you may recall Jonah Hill was not a dramatic actor as far as we knew before this movie. Easily best known as kind of an Apatow player off the huge success of Superbad. And he was Academy Award nominated for this role. He's a very unlikely person to be cast in this role in part because if you've ever seen Paul DiPodesta, you know, he's like a very tall, skinny guy. And in the version that Steven Soderbergh was going to make, Dimitri Martin, the comedian, was going to play the Peter Brand character. So Jonah is a really, like, a pretty hard pivot away from what they were doing there. But I think his comic timing mixed with a kind of like glazed over sincerity that he applies to this is, like, really helps the movie because Pit really needs a foil because he's so restrained in his performance, except when he's throwing things, that he needs somebody who can, like, give him comic timing, give him something to bounce off of constantly.
- [14:35]
Amanda Dobbins
And they're well matched, they respond to each other and. And you can watch Pitt. I don't know whether he's just like being entertained by Jonah or whether, you know, that is just really good acting. He's a pretty good actor, but you can see in the moment that, I mean, the movie is a little bit about them figuring out their relationship and their mission together, as well as whatever it is with his daughter. So they, yeah, they play off each other and he's just also very funny.
- [15:04]
Sean Fantasy
So Philip Seymour Hoffman, who plays Art Howe, who also managed the Mets, by the way, and he sucked. Hoffman had acted in Capote, Bennett Miller's first narrative feature film, and won an Academy Award for best Actor for that role. And this is kind of a small role, kind of a nothing part on the page if you're not Philip Seymour Hoffman. And he brings a tremendous amount of gravitas and he looks like a baseball manager. There are a lot of baseball managers with that physique and that posture and that kind of glower that he brings to the table. And he's also really good because film Seymour Hoffman is not afraid of Brad Pitt. Like, he is not intimidated by him. And there are a lot of scenes where they really have to openly share contempt for one another.
- [15:47]
Amanda Dobbins
You are outside your mind.
- [15:52]
Sean Fantasy
And I love this series of confrontations that are written for them because Pitt is playing a version of himself, an overconfident movie star, and Howe is a overweight manager and the cheapest team in the Major League Baseball. And they have, like, an unusual anti chemistry that I think is, like, one of the rare aspects of tension in the movie. There's actually not a lot of ultimate tension that isn't internal, that isn't born of, like, can Billy do it? There has to be some sort of foil for him going through the movie. And, you know, Rudy Giuliani and the Yankees aside, like, there's not a lot presented there.
- [16:26]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, you forgot Grady. And we can't forget Grady and the rest of the scouts.
- [16:31]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah, those guys. Those suckers.
- [16:33]
Amanda Dobbins
Which is another. Just one of the great scenes of the 21st century.
- [16:39]
Sean Fantasy
Do you know kind of where we stand with baseball right now in this debate? Like, have you followed this? Have you been reading the sabermetricians?
- [16:46]
Amanda Dobbins
No, I haven't been reading the sabermetricians. So what I know is because I see you all of the time and I see Chris all the time, and I live with one of your friends who's also sports obsessed, so it gets filtered. So I know that the. So Moneyball went for all the other sports for a while. Right. And so, like, the stats wave went through. And now in football, you're always supposed to go for fourth down, or you're never supposed to go for fourth down. Right. You're always supposed to. But Bill doesn't like that. Right.
- [17:15]
Sean Fantasy
Who's Bill?
- [17:16]
Amanda Dobbins
Our boss, Bill. That's good. You got me. So, yeah. So stats. And then people are like, we've gone too far with the stats. And then what are we. So. But I don't know where we are right now.
- [17:31]
Sean Fantasy
I would say we're somewhere in the middle.
- [17:32]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. There we go.
- [17:33]
Sean Fantasy
You know, the eye test still matters. The interesting thing about this movie, Grady Fuson, who is portrayed in the movie as the head scout of the Oakland A's, who's unceremoniously fired for saying fuck you to Billy in the movie, was a longtime scout and minor league coach with The Oakland Athletics, and according to him and some others, was very supportive in real life of the revolution that Billy was trying to push with Paul D. Podesta. But for the purposes of the movie, they took some dramatic license with that story, notably Grady Fusen, where everywhere he went after this, he kind of flamed out every time. Trying to hold onto some of the old ways. But that is the other theme of the movie is can you introduce new ways of thinking into these worlds but not lose your soul? You know, what Grady Fuson represents is unusual. That's usually what the hero of a movie is trying to stand for. That we are about something and we can't get rid of it in favor of data and metrics and a kind of soulless approach. And weirdly, Billy represents something that I think, like today, we're pretty skeptical of. We're pretty dubious of having our lives dominated by a data center. If you've seen Eddington.
- [18:46]
Amanda Dobbins
God. Yeah. It was playing earlier today here at the Music Box.
- [18:49]
Sean Fantasy
Playing here at the Music Box?
- [18:50]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Adapt or Die. Coming from literally anyone else right now, we are allergic to. But I think the movie wisely softens it because it invents the Hatterberg character played by Chris Pat in one of his best movie roles. I feel confident in saying in public.
- [19:10]
Sean Fantasy
So it's number one, Electric State. Number two, Jurassic World, Dominion.
- [19:15]
Amanda Dobbins
I saw that.
- [19:15]
Sean Fantasy
Number three is Guardians 3.
- [19:19]
Amanda Dobbins
My favorite of Guardians 3. Yeah.
- [19:22]
Sean Fantasy
The Tomorrow War is for.
- [19:24]
Amanda Dobbins
Right. Don't forget Passengers.
- [19:26]
Sean Fantasy
Passengers five. Let's keep going. Oh, you know, I. Super Mario Bros. Movie 6.
- [19:34]
Amanda Dobbins
Oh, he wasn't bad in that.
- [19:36]
Sean Fantasy
Garfield 7.
- [19:37]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [19:39]
Sean Fantasy
Jurassic World 8. Help me out here, folks.
- [19:44]
Amanda Dobbins
Someone yelled some bike wars. What?
- [19:49]
Sean Fantasy
Bride Wars 9.
- [19:50]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you, guys. We gotta talk about Bride Wars. I don't like. I don't. I. You know, I understand we need that kind of representation, but also. Do we. You know.
- [20:02]
Sean Fantasy
You know, I'm really excited to announce that we're gonna wrap this episode up. Cause we're about to show number 13 on our list, Bride War. A great film about the bride industrial complex. What's it about? I haven't seen it.
- [20:15]
Amanda Dobbins
They. It's two best friends and they're getting married. Like close to the same time. Or is it the same day? Same day. I mean, that's not realistic.
- [20:22]
Sean Fantasy
DOB mob.
- [20:23]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you, guys. And it's. And it's Anne Hathaway and Kate Hudson, right?
- [20:27]
Sean Fantasy
Anne Hathaway is in that movie.
- [20:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. And then I should watch that. Chris Pratt. And then who's. Wait, who's the other husband who? Okay. All right guys.
- [20:38]
Sean Fantasy
This is being recorded for a podcast. I need you to have your phones out with information quickly for us. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Keeping your house clean when you've got a cat is no easy feat. But with Pretty Litter, you don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat. This litter is practically magic. It's low dust, controls odors and lasts up to a whole month. But the best part, it monitors your cat's health every time they use the box. Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy at Pretty Litter.com BigPicture that's PrettyLitter.com BigPicture to save 20% on your first order AND get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com BigPicture Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details Support for this podcast and the following message comes from America's Navy. The Navy offers new graduates, hands on training and experience in careers like computer science, aviation and medicine. Plus education and sign on bonuses. Parents help your grads start their career today@navy.com Olivia loves a challenge.
- [21:52]
Olivia
It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes. But for booking her trip to Paris, Olivia chose the easy way with Expedia. She bundled her flight with a hotel to save more. Of course she still climbed all 674 steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip. Expedia made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected anyway.
- [22:21]
Amanda Dobbins
Chris Pratt Hatteberg is also it's he is both I guess this representation of the stats and also he's a real person but he's a real person and he is also a second chance. And you know, he also has one daughter who comes out in the crucial scene at the home and is like hey daddy, I love you. So you know, it's like the themes are a language. She's very cute. I hope she had a great Christmas, you know. So the movie is very smart in how it's constructed in order to soften what you're right is a lot of numbers and it shows a lot of numbers. Just a lot of spreadsheets. This must be why you love this movie.
- [23:03]
Sean Fantasy
I relate to some of has A very curious production history, which I think isn't necessarily always worth talking about for these conversations, but for this one, it is. It was optioned shortly after publication, and Stan Shervin was hired to write the screenplay. He very quickly moved on. They hired Stephen Zaillian, writer of Schindler's List, the night of the recent Ripley series on Netflix, literally considered one of the most skilled screenwriters in Hollywood for the last 40 years. And Steven Soderbergh was gonna direct that movie. And Soderbergh's vision for the movie was really interesting. It was kind of like if you made Reds as a baseball movie, where he was gonna use into camera testimony and real life people performing from the film. So Scott Hattieberg would have acted in this movie. Chad Bradford would have acted in this movie. A number of figures. I don't know if Billy. I don't. I think Brad Pitt was still going to play Billy Bean.
- [23:57]
Amanda Dobbins
Was David justice going to be in it?
- [23:58]
Sean Fantasy
But I'm sure David justice would have been in it, and it was a very audacious movie that was still going to be an expensive studio movie. And reportedly, Soderbergh, three or four days before production, added a lot of things to the script that included adding a lot more stuff about statistics. And Amy Pascal, who was running Sony at the time, said, what the fuck is this? This is unintelligible to regular, normal moviegoers. And right before production, she put the movie in turnaround and paused it completely. Soderbergh walked away. He went off on his journey of making nine movies a year, and she hired Aaron Sorkin. And there is so much Sorkinian stuff in this movie that I have to assume is not there. And I'm sure that the dad daughter stuff is a part of that, and I'm sure a lot of that kind of the nobility of the work, which is so common in all of Sorkin's TV shows and movies, the idea of, like, just doing the thing in an honest and decent way.
- [24:55]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure. And also, you find yourself at work, and you find your people at work, and your work is your. Yeah, it is true. I mean, not that that's not Soderbergh quoted either, at least in my understanding of him. You were describing the Soderbergh script to me yesterday while we were waiting for our flight at the airport. And, you know, the movie that we saw is not unlike what you described in that. I mean, it certainly still has a lot of math. Instead of people talking directly to camera, it uses a lot of talk radio, but it does use a lot of archival of the real people. You know, there is a recreated collage feeling and like a good amount of math. No equations, I guess. But you know, as devoted as I am to the Steven Soderbergh project, I am happy that we got the movie that we got.
- [25:45]
Sean Fantasy
The thing that's fascinating about it is that Bennett Miller is hired after Sorkin completes a draft. And Bennett Miller to that point had made a documentary called the Cruise. How many people have seen the Cruise? Are you familiar with that movie? Speed Levich, who is featured in Richard Linklater movies. It follows him and then he made Capote, which was written by his friend Dan Futterman. And then he gets hired to make this movie six years later with relatively little interest in baseball as far as I can tell, but understands the character aspect of this beautifully. Makes this great film. He makes Foxcatcher four years later, a movie that no longer exists, which I kind of liked, honestly, but it's a little self serious. And then he has not done anything since. And I wonder if like the legacy of this movie is dimmed at all because Bennett Miller hasn't made a movie in over 10 years.
- [26:35]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, on our list, it's one of the rare movies that is not like, oh, this is this director's slot. Like Fox Kocher was not in consideration. There is so much wrestling in that movie and some other stuff like what? You know. But everyone else, it was like, okay, well this will be our Nolan. That's why you didn't get Dark Knight. And I mean that's. It's long. You know, you guys have seen it, you live here. And this will be our.
- [27:11]
Sean Fantasy
Are you suggesting that the Dark Knight is a documentary about Chicago?
- [27:16]
Amanda Dobbins
That's. I'm going on a boat tour tomorrow and that's what I'm expecting.
- [27:18]
Sean Fantasy
So I'll be playing the Joker during that boat tour.
- [27:26]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, this. So I guess in some ways, if you want to be rude, this is taking the. There are many celebrated directors who we devote whole episodes to who aren't going to be on this list.
- [27:39]
Sean Fantasy
And this is, sorry, Taylor Sheridan.
- [27:43]
Amanda Dobbins
But for me it was a no brainer.
- [27:48]
Sean Fantasy
Six Academy Award nominations, Picture actor, supporting actor, adapted screenplay, film editing and sound mixing. No director. Do you remember who Brad Pitt lost to?
- [28:02]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, I do because you put it in the doc. This is very upsetting. Does anyone else hear? Does anyone remember.
- [28:07]
Sean Fantasy
Yep, Jean Dujardin for the Artist.
- [28:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Yes, that's the groaning. I hope the mics picked that up.
- [28:14]
Sean Fantasy
You know, some people like the Artist. I don't And I don't like. I don't dislike that performance. I just don't. I don't. I literally don't understand what happened there. I do understand what happened there. Harvey Weinstein. And that's what happened. But. And that's terrible. And we hate that. But, you know, Pitt, of course, eight years later, will eventually win best supporting Actor for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which he's very good in.
- [28:36]
Amanda Dobbins
But.
- [28:36]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah, he's very good in. But like so many before him and so many after him, very rarely winning for the right role. And that is an interesting Sliding Doors, because if he wins in 11, then somebody else wins in 19. You know, maybe our friend Tracy Letts for Ford versus Ferrari could have gotten in there. You know, tough. It's too bad that didn't happen.
- [28:58]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [28:58]
Sean Fantasy
Fucking idiots. At the Academy.
- [29:03]
Amanda Dobbins
Once again, our streak on this list of just no Oscars means no Oscar wins.
- [29:10]
Sean Fantasy
Means it's an all time.
- [29:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Yes. What about Oppenheimer Oscar? Like, you're out. Well, once again, you know how I felt about that episode.
- [29:18]
Sean Fantasy
Usually when Roger Ebert and Manola Darkus are like, this movie is crack.
- [29:22]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [29:23]
Sean Fantasy
Then it's crack. And this was a case. Four stars from Ebert.
- [29:26]
Amanda Dobbins
It's like, I was really nervous something else was coming.
- [29:28]
Sean Fantasy
Roger Ebert's had zero stars this movie. No, he loved it. And Manola wrote at length about the kind of use of Pitt's power and what he kind of brings as a movie star type and him kind of like filtering in your Robert Redford types. The kind of, like, strong silent figures. It's like incredibly well regarded. A very adult movie that did very good business at the box office. You know, $120 million is like a $50 or $60 million movie. And we did used to say a lot in the last five years. They don't make them like they used to anymore. You know, certainly a book based on nonfiction adaptation seems unusual, but I'm going the other way.
- [30:10]
Amanda Dobbins
You're optimistic.
- [30:10]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah. In the Year of Minecraft.
- [30:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [30:12]
Sean Fantasy
I feel like we're back.
- [30:13]
Amanda Dobbins
Good. So Moneyball and then Minecraft. That's. That's the director.
- [30:16]
Sean Fantasy
Both ip.
- [30:18]
Amanda Dobbins
They are. They are. Would this have been eligible in the IP Franchise category in whatever draft we did? I guess so. Sure.
- [30:25]
Sean Fantasy
When they make a sequel, right. About whatever the hell they're doing to the A's right now and sending them to Las Vegas. You following that?
- [30:31]
Amanda Dobbins
What would the Mets version of Moneyball be?
- [30:33]
Sean Fantasy
It'd be like Dog Day Afternoon. We're all being held hostage. They won't let us out. The bank robbers don't know what they're doing. Cops are screaming in the street. It's 100 degrees out. We can't get out of New York. They won't let us free.
- [30:50]
Amanda Dobbins
That's good. Good job.
- [30:51]
Sean Fantasy
Thanks. Is this movie standing in for anything else? Was this in competition with anything else? Even if there wasn't a Bennett, another Bennett Miller movie? Is there anything you can think of from what we were examining?
- [31:04]
Amanda Dobbins
So definitely sports movie. But I don't even know what would have been in contention besides this.
- [31:12]
Sean Fantasy
Leatherheads. Any. What sports movies should we have done? Speed Racer.
- [31:22]
Amanda Dobbins
Speed Racer.
- [31:23]
Sean Fantasy
I like that.
- [31:25]
Amanda Dobbins
Challengers. Thank you, guys.
- [31:27]
Sean Fantasy
Challengers.
- [31:27]
Amanda Dobbins
Sure. Okay.
- [31:28]
Sean Fantasy
Interesting.
- [31:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, but play that tape out right, because that's Luca Guadagnino. So then you've got five movies or six. So.
- [31:41]
Sean Fantasy
Challengers isn't on the list.
- [31:42]
Amanda Dobbins
Challengers is not on the list. This is our sports movie, I'm sorry to say. I know. Well, you know, next year I'll do my own list on what show, But I can't think of anything. Any other sports movies that are also on the quote, unquote, prestige level, for lack of a better word. But really, any others that we both have a connection to? It's come up on the show a lot. I thought that more people were gonna guess that this movie was Moneyball because we have talked about how every time we're asked to host any sort of rep screening, we're like, how about Moneyball? And then you said no four times. Yeah, so.
- [32:21]
Sean Fantasy
So we did this.
- [32:22]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you so much. Music box.
- [32:23]
Sean Fantasy
Correct the record.
- [32:24]
Amanda Dobbins
And thank you all. Was anyone, like, tempted to leave? You're all still here. I don't see any empty seats. Maybe keep it to yourself. But, yeah, we love this movie.
- [32:36]
Sean Fantasy
So recommended, if you like, is something we talk about at the end of all of these conversations. There are a couple of sports business movies that I think could have stood in for this. Most of them are fairly recent. Air comes to mind. Ayer is sort of a similar movie to this in terms of ideas and the relationship between commerce and finance and decision making around sports.
- [32:58]
Amanda Dobbins
Some movie stars in questionable pants. Yes, but we love them anyway.
- [33:03]
Sean Fantasy
Hustle, the recent Adam Sandler movie about a basketball scout, player, personnel, person. F1.
- [33:11]
Amanda Dobbins
I mean, F1 is very Moneyball coded.
- [33:13]
Sean Fantasy
Very Moneyball. And maybe we didn't talk about that when we talked about F1, but I think a lot of what Pitt is doing is just channeling Billy. You know, like the guy who never really made it. He's Done this before. Kind of a demerit for F1, to be honest with you. Anyway, speaking of air, though, I thought a lot about Good Will Hunting watching this movie the second time. You know, like the wizard who just kind of needs to tap into everything and all the math and all the, like. We're just waiting for you to really have the big moment, buddy. We're all rooting for you. Hope you don't. You're not at your door when we pick you up in the morning.
- [33:43]
Amanda Dobbins
Boston plays a pivotal moment, and then someone has to go on their way.
- [33:47]
Sean Fantasy
Yeah. Are you hoping one day I'm just not in the chair and recording? I've taken off?
- [33:52]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. Well, you know, we've got. We've got a couple people in the room who are ready if need be, so I know who to call them.
- [33:57]
Sean Fantasy
Third chair attendees.
- [33:58]
Amanda Dobbins
Just, you know, no one in particular.
- [33:59]
Sean Fantasy
We'll put them together a vote tomorrow.
- [34:01]
Amanda Dobbins
I thought a lot about Friday Night Lights, really. More the show than the movie, but the movie, too, but especially the score and the music and people just doing their best.
- [34:14]
Sean Fantasy
And you love progressive rock, right? That's the genre that you're.
- [34:17]
Amanda Dobbins
I actually played on the score. I was in the session, so.
- [34:20]
Sean Fantasy
What instrument? Timpani.
- [34:22]
Amanda Dobbins
That was me. Yeah.
- [34:23]
Sean Fantasy
Okay.
- [34:23]
Amanda Dobbins
Really impressive.
- [34:25]
Sean Fantasy
I also wrote all the President's Men. Sure. Procedural, procedural, process, movie. Trying to figure out the right way to do things. And also taking you inside of a world that you don't totally understand and showing you literally how people do things, literally how people talk about things, which is one of the best things you can do in a movie. I mean, that's more or less it. What else do you want to say about Moneyball?
- [34:45]
Amanda Dobbins
We didn't talk enough about Spike Jones. Just one of the great cameos and.
- [34:51]
Sean Fantasy
The sandals shaping up this year.
- [34:52]
Amanda Dobbins
Things are really peaceful here. I just.
- [34:55]
Sean Fantasy
I mean, I think I owned those sandals when I was, like, 15. And at the time I was like, this is a great idea. I'm going to wear these in March to high school on Long Island.
- [35:06]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Sean Fantasy
And it was a bad idea.
- [35:09]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [35:09]
Sean Fantasy
I regret it. But he's pulling them off.
- [35:11]
Amanda Dobbins
Well, in the context of that beautiful, peaceful living room. And it is a very nice living room.
- [35:16]
Sean Fantasy
Do you think Spike should act more?
- [35:18]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah, I think he should do whatever he wants.
- [35:20]
Sean Fantasy
He's another guy who hasn't made a movie in 10 years.
- [35:22]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. A lot of her on the New York Times Movies of the Year.
- [35:28]
Sean Fantasy
People like to film her.
- [35:29]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah. I mean, I like to.
- [35:30]
Sean Fantasy
Because they love AI.
- [35:33]
Amanda Dobbins
Okay.
- [35:34]
Sean Fantasy
I think that's where we're gonna wrap.
- [35:35]
Amanda Dobbins
Yeah.
- [35:39]
Sean Fantasy
This has been really, really special for us. Yeah.
- [35:40]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you guys so much for coming out. And also.
- [35:47]
Sean Fantasy
We are eternally grateful that people care about movies and listen to the show and would come out for something like this. So thank you so much. Thank you to the Music Box Theater, which is a very special place.
- [35:58]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you. And they let us keep this movie a secret, which is an amazing thing. And thanks to all of you for just coming to see a movie without knowing what it was. That's genuinely cool and very nice that you would trust us.
- [36:14]
Sean Fantasy
For those of you who are disappointed by this pic, Chris will be hosting a screening of Cruising in the Alley out back, which sounds really fun. I do want to say thank you to Elizabeth Fearman and our whole events team. Thank you to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Shout out Jack, who's been rolling with us all day. Thank you to Jack Wilson, who's here, who runs video at the Ringer. He's here with us today. We are going to be at the Steppenwolf Theater tomorrow night.
- [36:42]
Amanda Dobbins
We are.
- [36:43]
Sean Fantasy
I hope some of you will be there. We will be drafting Chicago movies. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. We'll see you soon.
- [36:56]
Amanda Dobbins
Thank you all so much.