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- [00:00]
Matt Bellamy
If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, the Town on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name is Matt Bellamy. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the what I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show the Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who'll never e lunch in this town again. Follow the Town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:38]
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- [01:13]
Sean Fennessy
I'm Sean Fennessy.
- [01:15]
Amanda Davis
I'm Amanda Davis.
- [01:15]
Sean Fennessy
And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about our post apocalyptic existence. Our pick today is a remarkable film, Alfonso Cuaron's Children of Men.
- [01:28]
Amanda Davis
Real rollercoaster on this one.
- [01:29]
Sean Fennessy
So a week and a half ago I reached out to you and I said, children of Men, I don't know. Should we make a swap? I'm not sure if I want to do this. And I thought it was maybe because my enthusiasm for the film had dimmed, but I'm wondering now if it's because I knew what lay before me. If I were to revisit the movie, which is a very emotionally wrenching, virtuosically made movie about a possible near future. 2027.
- [01:55]
Amanda Davis
2027. But with a lot of hallmarks of the way we live now.
- [02:00]
Sean Fennessy
It certainly does. This is one of the most prescient films made in recent times and one of the best. So you never lost the faith in this, though?
- [02:08]
Amanda Davis
No, but I. The way that I'm working through this project, which I love. I'm having such a great time.
- [02:13]
Sean Fennessy
Great. Me too. Not really, but okay.
- [02:16]
Amanda Davis
Is that once a week I hear from you in crisis mode and you have, you know, you have a crisis of faith. Sometimes you're on a plane, sometimes you're just you know, in plane mode at home. Because as we've discussed, that's a. That's a spiritual plane that you can reach.
- [02:33]
Sean Fennessy
It's not location based.
- [02:34]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. And you're like, I don't know how I feel about our choice. And I, Sean, just use that as an opportunity to talk to you about cinema, which is great. And that's why we do this podcast. And frankly, this year there haven't been. There hasn't been a lot of real cinema released.
- [02:49]
Sean Fennessy
Yes.
- [02:50]
Amanda Davis
So you, you go back and forth, you share your feelings, you go up, you go down with Children of men. At first you were like, I think that this is like a five star masterpiece that maybe I don't want to rewatch.
- [03:03]
Sean Fennessy
That is what I said.
- [03:04]
Amanda Davis
And I said, okay, well, do you want to do it, Mama Tamien? Do you want to put it on hold? I threw out some other selections of things that did not make it onto the list. And we bumped up Something's Gotta Give and took a little more time. And in that time, you and I both rewatched the film, which we, like, actually hadn't done before making the long list. And then we were like, oh, shit, this is way too low. This might actually, like, this might be top 10. Do we want to redo the list so that we can get it? This is. I was flat out blown away by this. And I knew that there. I remembered being blown away by it when I saw it and probably, like, I've probably seen it a couple times and I remember it being perfect. But I too was not expecting both the emotional and just the holy shit movies response that I had to it.
- [04:00]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah. I think the list is now getting into a. It's going to be hard to debate territory, you know, where almost everything that we pick is going to have a kind of ecstatic quality in the filmmaking or the storytelling or the acting. This movie is clearly, I think, inarguably worthy of this list. And I didn't want to rewatch it in part because I remember the first time that I saw it in theaters and the absolute pit in my stomach that it left. I've revisited a couple of times. I think I rewatched it a couple of years ago. We talked about disaster movies and I think I had framed it as a disaster movie and some people quibbled with that take. But the idea of a worldwide infertility pandemic is a disaster.
- [04:40]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. Did you do it for disaster or it could have been Apocalypse?
- [04:44]
Sean Fennessy
I don't.
- [04:45]
Amanda Davis
I sort of remember it because the apocalypse episode was a Very special episode of it, I think that was like.
- [04:51]
Sean Fennessy
I have no recollection.
- [04:51]
Amanda Davis
April 2020.
- [04:53]
Sean Fennessy
Oh, yeah.
- [04:54]
Amanda Davis
And it was. And that was. That was where we were emotionally, and we were like.
- [04:58]
Sean Fennessy
Was that like, clever programming in the face of a pandemic?
- [05:01]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, it was.
- [05:01]
Sean Fennessy
I'm very sorry about that.
- [05:02]
Amanda Davis
Maybe. Maybe it was May 2020. Maybe it was June.
- [05:06]
Sean Fennessy
Okay.
- [05:07]
Amanda Davis
And it might have been tied to a movie as well. It wasn't like Bill making you guys do a Contagion rewatchables on, you know, March 3, 2020.
- [05:16]
Sean Fennessy
That wasn't ideal.
- [05:17]
Amanda Davis
No, it wasn't.
- [05:18]
Sean Fennessy
But it was weirdly fair and reasonable. And you made a note in our document about Contagion here because these two films share the same thing. Now, Children of Men is played to a kind of extreme in the story because you can see the sort of nation states and governments and the general rules of our society completely folding in on themselves and a world falling apart. In this film, it is the absolute endgame of destruction for if something like this were to transpire. So just the details of the film, so we're clear, as I said, it's directed by Cuaron. I'd like to talk about him for quite a while because he might be the world's greatest living filmmaker who has not made a movie in six, seven years. And so he has not been a constant source of discussion on the show since Roma, which is really when you and I started cooking on the show. We haven't had a lot of opportunity to discuss him, but he also has a writing credit on this film. There are a number of credited writers on this movie, including Timothy J. Sexton, David Arata, Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby. And it's based on the Children of Men by P.D. james P.D. james, a renowned English novelist who. She died about 10 years ago. And I think this is really the only major film of note that is adapted from her work. She's best known for detective stories.
- [06:35]
Amanda Davis
Right. You're overlooking Death Comes to Pemberley, but that's fine. That's on your.
- [06:39]
Sean Fennessy
I mean, was that released in America? Like, I know it exists, but, like, I don't.
- [06:44]
Amanda Davis
It was, but I think it might have been one of those, like, British TV special to something. That's fine. Matthew Rhys. It's a murder mystery set at the fictional home in. From Pride and Prejudice. For those of you not on the level.
- [06:58]
Sean Fennessy
Okay. So clearly this is important to you.
- [07:00]
Amanda Davis
Pemberley is where Mr. Darcy lives, and Matthew Reese plays Mr. Darcy, I believe, in the Death Comes to Pemberley Yeah, it was a PD I've read both the book and seen the films.
- [07:11]
Sean Fennessy
That's very funny. I was gonna say PD James. Her work is very. Amanda. Yes. And this novel is not very P.D. james. No, I think it's interesting, of course, a woman writing a kind of sci fi, dystopian nightmare military movie or military novel that features fertility as a key subject seems notable. The movie stars Clive Owen, Claire Hope Ashitay, Julianne Moore, Chiwetel Ejiofor, Pam Ferris, Charlie Hunnam and Michael Caine. It is notably as all of Cuaron's movies are shot by Emmanuel Chivo Lubezki, who is also, along with Cuaron, widely considered one of the greatest filmmakers, arguably the greatest cinematographer in the world, give or take a Roger Deakins. And this movie which charts what basically what happens to this small pocket of rebels in the face of this infertility epidemic which has been going on for well over 15 years. I guess 18 years is the extent.
- [08:12]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. And three months and something days.
- [08:14]
Sean Fennessy
Yes. And so the film isn't just a portrait of kind of the world falling apart. It's a portrait particularly of two modes of rebellion and how to save humanity. And the way to do that is to find somebody who can give birth. And of course they do find someone in this story who can give birth. Clive Owen is our perspective character. He is a man who was once a rebel or was once a progressive who has kind of slipped out of the cause and is a bit lost until he is drawn back into it by his former wife lover, who's portrayed by Julianne Moore. And then he becomes kind of an agent of change throughout this story. So you mentioned that you saw it a long time ago, you loved it, you watched it again. It could be a top 10 movie. Notes the arbitrary nature of our list. What else did you feel while you were watching the movie?
- [09:01]
Amanda Davis
I thought of your sentence of this might be a five star masterpiece and or conventional movie nerd wisdom, that this is like a quote unquote, perfect film. Yeah, it's a perfect screenplay. It is a perfect technical execution. There is a stunning amount of like capital C, like camera work, athletic filmmaking. It's most famous for the single action, single single shot action sequences. Particularly there's a car attack which is terrifying and then there is a, a raid, like a battle sequence at the end that are filmed. You know, there's, you know, it's not like the studio, they're using a wet pen or whatever, but. But it is, but the effect is that you are just watching a single take of absolutely wild stuff happening. But the whole movie is that level of astonishing filmmaking and craft that works totally with the screenplay. It's not just doing it to be like, ooh, and here's our oner, like ooh, here we go, look at us. Use the camera. It works with the story. It works beautifully to the way that you see this world because of the way they film it with just the one camera. And just following people is like. Is magnificent because you can both learn everything. But as you said, it's focused on a small group of people. And so the way that they establish the world, the way they do exposition, you know, even the like the visual composition of what you see in a frame and how you see and there it's like absolutely grotesque. Things are happening in the background of almost every shot, but they are in the background. You know, like you mentioned, Charlie Hunnam is in this movie. I don't think his face is ever close enough to the camera to actually like face ID Charlie Hunham.
- [11:16]
Sean Fennessy
He may never be in focus.
- [11:17]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, exactly. So but that, that works with the story itself which is of like this one person who's co opted in to try to figure out like his path and this other person's path to safety and to savior of the world and without knowing what else is going on. Because at this point in the existence of the world, like all you have is what you're doing every day and then whatever like propaganda is being artfully displayed on the various televisions. So it, it is like the real. It is practice, like form and function and all working together in a way that like is exhilarating.
- [12:05]
Sean Fennessy
So the film, almost nothing that you see in the movie, this is not a POV movie. It's not through the eyes of Theo, the, the Clive Own character. But almost everything that you see, the sort of panorama of this world is through his experience of the world. The thing is, is that it shows you those things, but it doesn't zero in on them, it doesn't let you sit in them because essentially this character is always on the move. The handful of times when he's sitting, when he's in the home with Michael Caine's character, the sort of like burnt out hippie who is his sort of former mentor, advisor and friend. You know, moments when they have been captured and they're, you know, the birth sequence late in the film is a sustained period of time where there's not a lot of movement. But the bulk of this film, these characters are on their feet and moving. And so even though we don't necessarily get every detail of this universe explained to us, we get the occasional kind of news report where we hear something on television or on the radio.
- [13:02]
Amanda Davis
Right.
- [13:02]
Sean Fennessy
But the idea of how the refugee camps work as opposed to why they started and where they are specifically located. Like, we get dribs and drabs, but experientially we understand and feel everything. I think that this serves the story really well. I think when I look back on the movie, my only note is that I just wish I knew the characters a little bit better. I don't necessarily need to know Julian and Theo. I think what Clive Owen and Julianne Moore get to do and how they get to show us what we was of their relationship and what they lost when their son died is enough. Every other character in the movie. I wish I understood Chiwetel Ejiofor just a little bit more. I like what he represents as a character, which is there are two sides to progress, to the idea of reaching progress. And I think the movie is sophisticated about this kind of forward action, direct action approach, which is the one he is taking. One that is violent, one that is aggressive, one that is meant to make a kind of spectacle of the rebellion versus the one that Julian and Theo ultimately portrays, which is like a humanist approach to this kind of thing. But the movie gives you a lot.
- [14:12]
Amanda Davis
Even with the Chiwetel Ejiofor character, Luke, I believe, which there's a lot of Bible running through this, just, you know, but with a nice twist in that particular scene where the character, once the baby is born, I think is absolutely astonishing. And the way that every single person in this movie responds to the sight of this baby is so revealing, I think, about the characters and the world. And he has that moment where he's sitting up by a window and just being like, I'd forgotten how beautiful they are. And he's so visibly. And also just like in between, just shooting, you know, out the window. But I think he does an incredible job in that. And even those few moments of this character being still so dead set on his ways, but also absolutely overcome with what is essentially like hope, you know, in corporeal form for the first time for literally every single person in the world, is, I think, really beautiful. And says enough about him. And then also the fact that he keeps being like, I need him, I need him. And then there's that great moment of, no, it's a girl. Then he says, I had a sister once. I do kind of feel like, you get moments. I guess you don't know that much about Charlie Hunnam, except like he has dreads and he's not in focus. A lot of white dreads in this.
- [15:41]
Sean Fennessy
There are. Yeah. That's an interesting choice, I think. I haven't read this novel. I actually would like to give it a look because I think in novel form, stories like this, characters are just deep. This is a. This is a movie about. About images and feeling, you know, it is not a movie or character development.
- [15:59]
Amanda Davis
Even, which, like, you know, like there's.
- [16:02]
Sean Fennessy
A Virgin Mary, Jesus.
- [16:04]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we kind of. I know what we're drawing on here.
- [16:07]
Sean Fennessy
The Zlava Zizek, the famed thinker and film fan, is a really big fan of this movie and has talked about it and written about it in the past. And one of the things that he points out that I think is super interesting is there's no sex in the movie. You know, that the conception is meant to seem immaculate, if not literally, then figuratively. And even between former lovers like Theo and Julian, we don't see sex like that isn't really what this world is about. It's about survival and it's about procreation, but not in the same way. And I think removing that, I think it kind of like withstands some of that religious imagery in a way. I think this is such an interesting movie for Cuaron to have chosen at this stage of his career, because he's coming off of Itumama Tambien, which he says he sees as essentially his first real movie. He had made two films before that, and those films were well received and he was considered. He made three films before that. They were very well received. But he was starting to feel like an assignment director, somebody who would get sent screenplays and would decide whether he wanted to make them. He made one film in his native Mexico, Solo Contuparejo. He made A Little Princess and he made Great Expectations, Great Expectations, a kind of much touted film starring Gwyneth Paltrow and Ethan Hawke adaptation of Dickens that fizzled pretty hard.
- [17:39]
Amanda Davis
Yeah.
- [17:39]
Sean Fennessy
And so he resets.
- [17:41]
Amanda Davis
Don't fast forward past Little Princess, though.
- [17:44]
Sean Fennessy
It's a good film. I haven't seen it in a very long time. I mean, he doesn't have any bad films. And what's interesting is that Solo Contu Pareja and A Little Princess and Great Expectations are all very different from one another. The production designs are very different. The pacing and tone is very different. He's like a real shapeshifter. Filmmaker Itu Ma Tamien is even more different from those films. That's like a road movie. It's a very personal movie. It's a movie about friendship, about love, about, like, who you are really in love with, identity, sexuality, freedom, Right. In the face of the encroaching structures of life.
- [18:18]
Amanda Davis
Right.
- [18:19]
Sean Fennessy
And the filmmaking style of that movie is weirdly very similar, even though the kind of movie it is, is very different, which is like. It's a lot of handheld. It's a lot of following, a lot of sort of like, follow where your character is moving through the world and you're seeing their back and you're seeing what they're seeing very clearly. And you can see in ITU Mah Tambien, which I really strongly considered pushing for in this spot because I'm very personally affected by the story in that movie. But the fact that he makes that movie, then takes a Harry Potter job.
- [18:52]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. And does a good job.
- [18:54]
Sean Fennessy
And that's one of the best franchise movies of the 21st century in Prisoner of Azkaban. And then it's almost like he has to cleanse out the taste of the franchise of the paycheck that he got, and makes this movie, which is just the most grim subject matter possibly imaginable.
- [19:13]
Amanda Davis
And a real cocktail of grim subject matters. I haven't read the full P.D. james novel. I read some of it, but the refugee element of this film, which is a major part of the plot in that the key, the mother figure is a refugee and needs to be able to travel, but there are a huge amount of restrictions. And also, I mean, she's constantly in danger in Britain. And then also visually, we pass cages, we pass camps. There is the final act takes place in a camp. So that is all stuff that Cuaron added that he used the novel as a sort of jumping off point. And the P.D. james novel, as you know, I did, jumping back and forth, is, as best I could tell, kind of more class focused. And that is what peters out in the. Which, you know, makes sense. A British novel. You guys are never going to get over that, apparently. I mean, we aren't either, but. But along with the infertility, which, you know, just becomes just the total lack of hope and a future and that there's nothing to live for. And the movie does, like, amazing images. You know, the empty playground and then key on the empty playground. I like. I feel a little sick right now just thinking about it. So it brings all of that to life and then it adds in a lot of images that we have come to have comps for in real life. And it is really pretty astonishing and upsetting and timely if you situate the.
- [20:58]
Sean Fennessy
Movie upon its release. It's 2006. We're engaged in international conflict in the United States of America. The P.D. james novel is 1992 is when it's published. So this film in a post 911 world, in a Operation Iraqi Freedom universe.
- [21:12]
Amanda Davis
I mean, there are some, like, Abu Ghraib references, Guantanamo Bay.
- [21:17]
Sean Fennessy
There's clearly a lot of these forces, A lot of these current events are informing a lot of what Cuaron and the writers are after in terms of what they're trying to portray about effectively what can happen and what, like, a police state can do in the face of a crisis like this, that this would send the world into a tailspin and that its citizenry would then be really vulnerable to the powers that be taking more control and creating. You know, there's these interesting images of protest in the movie that are shot through the lens of faith. You know, a lot of the protesters are sort of like, will God ever forgive us for what we have done? And we are being punished for this transgression. And then there are other examples where there is just this pure sort of like, like I said, direct action, progressive citizenry that is attempting to form and use sometimes nonviolent, sometimes violent means to accomplish their goals. The fact that it was made in 2006 and all of these events are happening and informing them doesn't foresee what's coming with the first Trump administration, with what's happening with ice, with what's happening with literally children in cages and parental separation and all these awful things that have happened in our world in the last 10 years. But Cuaron and the writers are smart enough to know that that reality was in touching distance. Obviously, we don't live inside of Children of Men. That would be a gross overstatement. But there are literal details of this world that are shown in the movie that are actually happening right now. And this is usually not a very serious show. We usually like to have a lot of fun. But the movie is very chilling in the way it portrays some of these things.
- [22:49]
Amanda Davis
And honestly, really, that in those images of the cages, in the recreation of some of the torture images, things do not look that different. And one of the, like, amazing and incredibly scary parts of this film is the way it creates a dystopia that is really not that far from. You know, everything is, like, grimier, but it is. It's set in London and it's like Big Ben is still there and like St. Paul's is still there and there's still a double decker bus. And the opening shot is of the Clive Owen character Theo in a coffee shop where like he's going to get coffee and so is everyone else.
- [23:31]
Sean Fennessy
The world is going on.
- [23:32]
Amanda Davis
Exactly.
- [23:32]
Sean Fennessy
Continuing like the.
- [23:34]
Amanda Davis
It's the BCC instead of the BBC, I guess. But they, they use the chime. They like get really close to that to as close as they can is like reporting on horrors like worldwide, but you know, in its like very calm BBC voice. So that the, the fact that the world is so recognizable like in this dystopia and then also that so many of the images from the like the migrant crisis to you know, torture, to like militarization, to all of these issues are also so recognizable from real life is. I mean it's a. It's emotionally walloping. It's really, really messed up. And we didn't even mention the pandemic stuff, which is just like. It's like a. It's like a back note. But the, the Theo and Jul. Julianne, who's. That's Julianne Moore is named Julianne. Julianne, yeah. Their son dies and died in a flu pandemic.
- [24:34]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah.
- [24:35]
Amanda Davis
In like 2008 or something. But I mean, you know, that's, it's. That's what Covid was.
- [24:41]
Home Depot Ad
It's like.
- [24:42]
Amanda Davis
It's just what the hell.
- [24:43]
Sean Fennessy
There are a lot of scientists and futurists who have been foretelling matters like this. And you know, it's not just to have just Ben prescient would not have been enough. Obviously. It's the collision of this incredible filmmaking style. Truly amazing actors being thrust into this world and being able to give performances. Like we always talk about the kind of physicality and athleticism of the filmmakers and of the camera. Clive Bowen's performance in this movie, specifically that raid that you're talking about near the end of the film when he's been separated from Key and he's trying to find her by following the baby's cries and the camera is following him and he is like leaping.
- [25:16]
Amanda Davis
I feel nauseous right now.
- [25:17]
Sean Fennessy
He really is giving an amazing physical performance in this movie. You know, he's an actor who was a top of the billing star for a hot minute. You know, when this is around the time of Closer, the Mike Nichols film, you know, coming out of the big success of Croupier, he made a couple.
- [25:34]
Amanda Davis
Of cool movies, did a very important Wimbledon like intro voiceover.
- [25:38]
Sean Fennessy
I don't remember that. But I'll take your word for it. But he's fantastic in this movie. The other thing that I wanted to note is I think the music is so, so good.
- [25:47]
Amanda Davis
It's so good.
- [25:48]
Sean Fennessy
So John Tavener composed the music. And there are a ton of great needle drops. There's one that sticks out in my. There's two that stick out in my mind. One, as we're seeing the sort of landscape of London that is sort of burnt out, and you've got protesters and you've got military and police and people trying to go about their day. You can hear in the Court of the Crimson King by King Crimson, which is this sort of, like, dystopian 70s prog rock epic. And then the sequence when we first see Theo and Michael Caine's character seated together. They're listening. Michael Caine is listening to music. He cares for his wife, who, it appears, has Alzheimer's or is, you know, disconnected somehow, I think.
- [26:28]
Amanda Davis
I mean, they. In background in, like, newspapers suggest that she went. She was, like, tortured as well. Okay. There's some headline M. A Five Torches journalist or something.
- [26:41]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he cares for her, grows pot in his house and tries to wild away the hours while keeping the faith for the cause. And they're listening to a song called Life in a Glass House by Radiohead, which is the last song on Amnesia. And it's a very unusual Radiohead song. It features, like, a New Orleans brass band, and it sounds like a funeral dirge. It sounds like, literally, Radiohead is, like, walking down the streets in New Orleans and Tom York is, like, wailing his weird Tom York whale surrounded by this huge brass band. And I've always loved that song. And I've always been like, this is the song you play right before you die. So there are a handful of really clever needle drops mixed in with this sort of choral symphonic score throughout the film that toggles between doom and hope, which is really what the movie is. The movie is a story about people who are on the precipice of disaster trying to find a reason to keep going, to survive, to find something else. I was so struck by the final sequence. I guess if you haven't seen this movie, we're talking about lots of detail.
- [27:52]
Amanda Davis
When they leave the house, when they.
- [27:54]
Sean Fennessy
Finally get off the hill.
- [27:54]
Amanda Davis
And every single. And it's just the reaction shot of every single person.
- [27:58]
Sean Fennessy
So every single soldier observing the baby crying, which you talked about.
- [28:02]
Amanda Davis
It's unbelievable.
- [28:03]
Sean Fennessy
But then leading all the way up until the. The rowboat and finding Escape thanks to this woman who is described as a gypsy or an Arab. The immigration cop, Sid, played by Peter Mullen, doesn't know which kind of. It's also like a little detail where it's like, I don't care what these people are or what they're about. And she effectively saves them. I mean, she is like an angel to them and takes them to safe harbor. And then they're just kind of rowing out into the nothingness, the vast nothingness of the sea, hoping to be saved, which is what life feels like sometimes. You know, it's a very powerful visual image and I guess I won't spoil anything more than that, but.
- [28:40]
Amanda Davis
And then the final line, which, like, you know, is coming and is in some ways, like, so like classic Hollywood, like, put the button on the kicker. But in the moment and after what you've been through is like, so lovely and emotional, which is. I, like, I'll call my baby Dylan. It's a girl's name, too. And it's. Sorry. It's an incredibly moving movie and moment. And that also, as that's happening, I mean, spoiler. We're spoiling it, I guess. Turn this off. Yeah. Clive Bowen is. That's it. That's like. That's his moment of release, which is like, really? Oh, God, like two parents are just crying right now. Great movie.
- [29:21]
Sean Fennessy
It's a wonderful movie. And when it was released, everyone knew that it was a great movie. It was widely hailed.
- [29:28]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. But. And yet something happened, like more critical fave.
- [29:33]
Sean Fennessy
So what happened here?
- [29:35]
Amanda Davis
This is 2006.
- [29:37]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah.
- [29:37]
Amanda Davis
So this is the Departed year.
- [29:39]
Sean Fennessy
It is.
- [29:40]
Amanda Davis
I mean, just some. With all respect to the. To our number one guy and to the Departed, which is a great movie that you guys watched in Boston recently. This is just. This was a weird year, people. 2005. 2006. The Oscars did not cover themselves in glory.
- [29:59]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah. So this movie got three Oscar nominations and they're three of the right kind of nominations. It got a Best Adapted Screenplay nomination, it got a Best Cinematography nomination, and it got a Best Film Editing nomination. Usually when a film has those three nominations, they're pretty likely to get Best Director and Best Best Picture. You know, we know this from talking about the Oscars non stop on this show.
- [30:24]
Amanda Davis
That's true.
- [30:26]
Sean Fennessy
Cuaro. Not nominated.
- [30:27]
Amanda Davis
No.
- [30:28]
Sean Fennessy
Not nominated for Best Picture.
- [30:29]
Amanda Davis
No.
- [30:30]
Sean Fennessy
No performance nominations. And not only that, the film did not win any of the three prizes it was nominated for. You fucked up. Just for the sake of context, I don't think 2006 is the worst year, by any means. But the nominees that year were the Departed, as you said, the winner, Babel, Letters From Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine, and the Queen.
- [30:52]
Amanda Davis
May I have some notes?
- [30:54]
Sean Fennessy
What happened? Why did this happen?
- [30:57]
Amanda Davis
I don't. I'd like.
- [30:58]
Sean Fennessy
This movie was released on December 25, 2006.
- [31:01]
Amanda Davis
Maybe it was too late and people were just too bummed out by it. I don't know. When was the Departed release? Departed was. Yeah, October.
- [31:10]
Sean Fennessy
It was in October. That's what I was going to say. But I feel like Letters From Iwo Jima was later in the year, right? Yeah, that was December 20, 2006. I mean, look, I think Letters From Iwo Jima is a very good film. I think both of those. Clint, that pair of World War II films that he made are good films. I think Little Miss Sunshine was an absolute phenomenon coming out of Sundance and just ran the table for a long stretch there. Huge box office hit. Babel sucks. And of course, Inaritu is one of Cuaron's best friends and he's among with the Three Amigos along with Del Toro. You know, you and I are not the biggest Inaritu fans on the show.
- [31:42]
Amanda Davis
We're going to have to deal with that in a little while. When Tom.
- [31:47]
Sean Fennessy
Yes, yes.
- [31:48]
Amanda Davis
I didn't mean on the list. I'm not putting.
- [31:49]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I thought you meant when spoiler.
- [31:51]
Amanda Davis
Eatery 2 not on the list.
- [31:52]
Sean Fennessy
No, no, he's not on the list. But I thought you meant like when Children of Men comes and we are confronted by inary2. You know, I'm not a fan of Babel and I think the Queen is a good movie, but it's not Children of Men.
- [32:04]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, no, it's not Children of Men. I like it a lot.
- [32:06]
Sean Fennessy
That's a tough one. There is a great directing nominee from that year, Paul Greengrass for United 93. Another movie that was sort of in the aftermath of. Of living in 2001 and thinking about kind of, you know, obviously that's a pure docudrama recreating something that had happened. But this is a real old school Oscar travesty that this movie was not recognized in its time.
- [32:27]
Amanda Davis
I was thinking back on our list so far, so just some list notes. This is our second novel adaptation out of four and I think we've got one Oscar total among four movies. One win.
- [32:43]
Sean Fennessy
Is it just Tilda Swinton?
- [32:45]
Amanda Davis
Yes. Did Michael Clayton win anything else?
- [32:46]
Sean Fennessy
I don't think so.
- [32:47]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, that's it. And I don't think the Handmaiden wasn't even nominated for by an international feature. Something's Gotta Give. Snubbed down the Line.
- [32:56]
Sean Fennessy
No, it was. Oh, no. Diane Keaton was nominated.
- [32:57]
Amanda Davis
She was nominated, but she didn't win.
- [32:59]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah. Did she win the Globe that year?
- [33:02]
Amanda Davis
That sounds right.
- [33:03]
Sean Fennessy
Okay. I mean, that's not surprising. Right.
- [33:06]
Amanda Davis
So that's. That's.
- [33:07]
Sean Fennessy
We do have some Best Picture winners on our list.
- [33:09]
Amanda Davis
We have a couple.
- [33:10]
Sean Fennessy
We have a couple.
- [33:11]
Amanda Davis
But that's. We're tracking towards, you know, righting wrongs.
- [33:15]
Sean Fennessy
Yes. You know, I've just remembered a scene from this film that I love that when I rewatched it, and it's relevant to this conversation about kind of historicizing art.
- [33:23]
Amanda Davis
Oh, the Danny Houston scene.
- [33:25]
Sean Fennessy
The Danny Houston scene, which is really, really good and shows you one little portrait of the world inside the world that's happening in this movie. Danny Huston plays a very powerful man who is a friend of the Theo character who he goes to to get transit papers. But we see that he is living lavishly, so lavishly, in fact, that he has Guernica in his home. You know, he has Michelangelo's David statue in his home, but he has these works of art devoid of admiration. There's no one in the world who can enjoy these works except for him.
- [33:58]
Amanda Davis
Right. Not even his son Edward, who is, like, using a weird computer with his hand, you know, again, extremely precious.
- [34:06]
Sean Fennessy
Yes, exactly.
- [34:07]
Amanda Davis
Like he's basically playing Minecraft.
- [34:08]
Sean Fennessy
Yes.
- [34:08]
Amanda Davis
Right. In an argyle sweater.
- [34:10]
Sean Fennessy
Yes. I find that scene to be wildly unnerving. As unnerving as any violent action sequence in the movie. Because he does something that I am guilty of, which is he just sort of pretends whatever's happening outside is not happening. And that compartmentalization, putting that in the movie and showing that there are people who could make more change but won't make more change.
- [34:32]
Amanda Davis
And even the Theo character is. I mean, he is. He starts the movie, you know, one way and. And move towards the another. Moves towards another. And it is really the memory of. Of his own son that impels him to do that. And this, like, last idea of, like, a tiny bit of hope. But, yeah, it's what happens when we all do that. Is. Is this.
- [34:57]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I mean, I think there's really something to that. I think there's really something to the urgency and, in some ways, necessity of this movie, that it is kind of fearless in showing what happens if you take a backseat. Now, I can argue that celebrating art and celebrating humanity on a daily basis on podcasts is not nothing. It's a little. It's a little something. It's not a lot, I think.
- [35:18]
Amanda Davis
I. Yeah. So if you're doing it publicly, basically, Danny Houston keeping Guernica in his house is as to you building your own little DVD library. Just.
- [35:32]
Sean Fennessy
What do you mean? Before we started recording? I just told you I would lend it to you.
- [35:35]
Amanda Davis
That's true. That's true.
- [35:36]
Sean Fennessy
I would share the great work.
- [35:37]
Amanda Davis
Why don't you open it up?
- [35:39]
Sean Fennessy
Well, you'll be there Sunday, so maybe that will be the time to do it. Recommend it if you like. We probably could go on and on because there is a vast history of post apocalyptic cinema, obviously, if you like Cuaron. And Cuaron, who went on to make Gravity, which is one of the great crowd pleasers of its time.
- [36:00]
Amanda Davis
Sure. And the Oscars celebrated that one, which.
- [36:03]
Sean Fennessy
Felt like a bit of a too late thing. Agree.
- [36:06]
Amanda Davis
Space is cool, but, you know, it's a good meme of Sandra Bullock.
- [36:10]
Sean Fennessy
It is.
- [36:11]
Amanda Davis
That's me at the end of every.
- [36:13]
Sean Fennessy
Solidcore class, floating in space or on the beach.
- [36:16]
Amanda Davis
No, on the beach.
- [36:17]
Sean Fennessy
On the beach.
- [36:17]
Amanda Davis
But laying face down. Like, I actually do that. And then I think of that one image. So, you know, in terms of image making, it stays with.
- [36:24]
Sean Fennessy
In this equation. I'm dead. George Clooney.
- [36:25]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. Yes.
- [36:28]
Sean Fennessy
I like Gravity. When I saw Gravity in movie theaters, I loved it.
- [36:30]
Amanda Davis
Yeah.
- [36:31]
Sean Fennessy
It's a movie that has not held up to rewatches. The characterization is pretty minimal in that movie.
- [36:36]
Amanda Davis
Also got to say, 90 minutes long. You're in, you're out.
- [36:39]
Sean Fennessy
It is 90 minutes long.
- [36:40]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. This one is under two hours. Thank you.
- [36:42]
Sean Fennessy
It feels really tight. Children of Men. In 2018, he made Roma, a deeply personal movie about growing up in Mexico and the caregivers who he lived with. That is a beautiful film that I think also kind of like hit us really in a deep place.
- [36:56]
Amanda Davis
Yes.
- [36:57]
Sean Fennessy
And he hasn't made a movie and made one series for Apple called Disclaimer that I watched two and a half.
- [37:03]
Amanda Davis
Episodes I never saw, but I listened to. I know what the twist is. Do you know what the twist is?
- [37:07]
Sean Fennessy
I don't. I'm sure I heard Chris Nandy discuss it on a podcast.
- [37:11]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. That's how I learned it. I'll tell you once we're done recording. We spoiled children of men, but we won't spoil. Disclaimer, starring Cate Blanchett.
- [37:18]
Sean Fennessy
Every artist has their journey.
- [37:20]
Amanda Davis
I make another movie, bro.
- [37:22]
Sean Fennessy
I'm eager for Cuaron to come back to films. I think, especially at a time like this, a person who knows how to make movies that are meant to be seen in theaters. All of his movies are. I've seen all of them since ITU Matambien in theaters. Was fortunate enough to see Rome at the New York Film Festival.
- [37:36]
Amanda Davis
Yeah.
- [37:37]
Sean Fennessy
And he has an extraordinary gift for image making and pace and tone that is almost unmatched. And he can do any kind of movie. And we just need more movies from him. So I hope he makes more movies. So in addition to his movies, if you love his films, I think all of the sort of political dramas of Costa Gavras Z is the most famous for sure. But we talked about missing on the 1982 movie draft with Tracy Letts, which is a terrific movie with Jack Lemmon and CZ Spacek. I think State of Siege. I think the Confession. You know, most of his films in the 70s are excellent. You should seek those out if you like this movie. Blade Runner.
- [38:22]
Amanda Davis
Yeah, of course.
- [38:23]
Sean Fennessy
Gray Call, also a kind of prescient movie about a police state. And, you know, there's a little bit more. And what less AI Robotics than that.
- [38:33]
Amanda Davis
This MOG is really going.
- [38:35]
Sean Fennessy
What was. What. What. What was the Blade Runner year? Was it 2019? 2022.
- [38:40]
Amanda Davis
Blade Runner, 80. Okay. No, that's when it was released. 2019, 2019.
- [38:46]
Sean Fennessy
Okay.
- [38:47]
Amanda Davis
It's according to AI. I didn't check it.
- [38:49]
Sean Fennessy
So, you know, I don't usually recommend tv, but we actually both have TV recommendations.
- [38:54]
Amanda Davis
That's true.
- [38:54]
Sean Fennessy
In this list.
- [38:55]
Amanda Davis
Well, both of my recommendations were like, if you thought that was good, then let's try something really good.
- [39:03]
Sean Fennessy
Oh, interesting.
- [39:04]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. But, you know.
- [39:07]
Sean Fennessy
Oh, meaning if you. Oh, if you. I see. These are slightly lesser than. Yeah, right.
- [39:11]
Amanda Davis
But it's like, if you. They're both successful. So if you like them. Let me really blow your mind with Children of Men.
- [39:17]
Sean Fennessy
I'm a fan of the Leftovers, and I think the Leftover. I don't usually recommend television on this show. I think the Leftovers is. I don't have the same. I don't hold it in the same steam that I think some of our colleagues do. I don't think it's like, you know, Mina Kaim's our friend. That's like, what? That's. I think that's her favorite show of all time. But there are certain things, specifically in the second season of the show that feel very closely synced to this sense of, like, societal decay in the face of an inexplicable event. That really resonates with me. The same is true of 12 Monkeys, another movie that is very wildly different. In tone, but feels very similar. And then I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Peter Watkins, Punishment park, which is completely different in style but not different in tone on 70s British film that I think people would enjoy. That's more of me recommending a movie to people that fewer people have seen than Children of Men. What are the two that you wanted to point out?
- [40:14]
Amanda Davis
So if recommended, if you like, is the prompt. So if you thought Civil War was good, let me show you what can really happen when you do some exposition and world building that makes sense. Like a line around bang up action sequences. And it's about a group of people trying to navigate the end of the world.
- [40:35]
Sean Fennessy
Very similar films.
- [40:36]
Amanda Davis
They're trying to do more than take a picture. So, you know, there's that. And then the Handmaid's Tale, which is a wildly popular TV show predicated on what happens when reproduction is the government's business in one way or another. And. And the world's business is large at large. And I, you know, that show is somehow still going on or it just released another season.
- [41:01]
Sean Fennessy
I feel like they've eclipsed the novel at this point.
- [41:03]
Amanda Davis
I think they eclipsed the novel in like season two.
- [41:06]
Sean Fennessy
But anyway, I did watch the first season of that show.
- [41:08]
Amanda Davis
I did. I did too.
- [41:09]
Sean Fennessy
I'm a big Elisabeth Moss believer.
- [41:10]
Amanda Davis
As am I. The needle drops in that. In the Handmaid's Tale were a bit much for me. But again, if you like that, then here are some real needle drops.
- [41:21]
Sean Fennessy
Yes, the needle drops in this movie.
- [41:23]
Amanda Davis
I'm just gonna say superior.
- [41:24]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah. Children of Men is an all time classic. Will we regret placing it at 22? I don't know.
- [41:32]
Amanda Davis
Probably. Let's. Like, we could do this whole thing with regret, but what if instead we appreciated the fact that we get to do this? I was psyched. I was like driving into work today and I was like, I can't wait to talk about this movie. I've been talking a lot about it.
- [41:47]
Sean Fennessy
We both almost cried. Yeah.
- [41:48]
Amanda Davis
Yeah. Well, like, we kind of did, but like, we held it back. Um, but I was also, like, very excited to talk about a good film. I've been talking about this with the people in my life, which is really nice. And they're all like, involved and they have notes and they want to. You know. I did. I had dinner with friends last night and they were like, oh, are you sure Children of Men shouldn't be top 10? As soon as I told them so. Jake, you're right. And then our friend Izzy was like, oh, you guys are getting really serious. Huh. So it's. It's fun. I like the feedback. I like that people are involved.
- [42:18]
Sean Fennessy
Yes.
- [42:19]
Amanda Davis
I like that we're doing this.
- [42:20]
Sean Fennessy
I think next week we'll shift the tone again for a different kind of film. No less Death Defying.
- [42:28]
Amanda Davis
That's true.
- [42:29]
Sean Fennessy
But different in tone, so it won't be that serious all the way through. I'm looking forward to continuing on while living with regret every day. Thank you.
- [42:38]
Amanda Davis
That's what you do.
- [42:39]
Sean Fennessy
That is what I do. Thank you to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. Later this week, building the Val Kilmer hall of Fame in honor of one of the great actors of the 90s and 2000s who recently passed. We will see you then.