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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a movie to stream, State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheezy Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It?
- [00:32]
B
That would be a top notch podcast. You could hear them crunching in my mouth.
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A
You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain.
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B
Oh man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you.
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A
Anyway, what was I talking about? Oh yeah. Oh, Cheez It. Yeah.
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B
Cheez It Crackers. Go check em out.
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A
Foreign I'm Sean Fennessy.
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B
I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is 25.
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A
For 25, a big picture special conversation show about Inglorious Basterds live. At the Egyptian Theater in Hollywood, California. And I think this just might be my masterpiece. Amanda, we are Talking about number four on our 25 for 25 list, Inglourious Basterds. Do you like this movie just a little bit? Just a little bit. It is written and directed by Quentin Tarantino. It stars Brad Pitt, Christoph Waltz, Michael Fassbender, Melanie Laurent, Eli Roth, Diane Kruger, Daniel Bruhl, Til Schweiger, August Diehl, the Little Man, a whole number of other people. This is simply one of my favorite movies of all time.
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B
Mine as well.
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A
Why is it on our list?
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B
This is our Quentin Tarantino pick. I feel great about this. I would like to know how you Sean Fennesee in the afterglow of this absolutely glorious print of this film that we just got to see. And thank you to the American cinema tech and the Egyptian for making that possible because it looked awesome. But you know, this list is a collaborative effort and the rule is one film per director. And Pulp Fiction was not eligible because that came out in 1994. But there was a discussion here still and I was very firm in Inglourious Basterds and you wanted to, you wanted some other options on the table.
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A
I'm on a journey with Quentin as I have been since I was 12 years old.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I feel very, very good about this pick. This is a rollicking good time and I think this Movie is. This movie reveals the secret art to moviemaking. And I'm not saying that everyone can do it. In fact, very few people can do it. But the secret art of movie making is not cinematography. It's not performance, it's not music. It's just writing unbelievable scene after unbelievable scene. People forget this. They worry about plot and things making sense. And screenwriters write scenes where it's like, oh, well, we need to do this scene where the guy gets in the car and he drives to the store and then he meets a guy in a store. No, no, just write.
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B
Never go to a store again.
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A
People writing, like, saying fascinating things to each other. And this scene is, like, the very highest example of why Tarantino, to me, is the ultimate master of scene writing. Because every moment in this movie is fun. We watch these movies before we record these episodes ahead of time. I watched this movie yesterday, as recently as 3 hours ago. I thought Amanda and I were gonna go out to Musso and Frank across the street and have dinner. And then I got inside the movie theater and I was like, I'm just gonna watch it again.
- [03:50]
B
Well, but even then, the Musso and Frank plan was like, okay, well, we'll introduce it, and then we'll watch the opening scene. Right. The 20 minutes. And then after Ovash Hashanah, we'll go out. And then like I did. Cause I didn't eat dinner, but I could hear the. The sound here is so amazing that in the next room I could hear the scenes. And I was like, oh, okay. So I just scarf this. I can be back for Operation Kino, you know, and we marked it through what scenes we wanted to see. And it's really just like just one more, or maybe just one more of this. But it does have two of the all time. I mean, they are not action in the traditional sense, but I would call them two of the great set pieces of the century in the opening and in Operation Kino.
- [04:36]
A
Yeah. I mean, not to mention the greatest revenge sequence in the history of movies in which Hitler gets his face blown off. I mean, that is just how satisfying in 2025 to watch Nazis get annihilated. I mean, that was. It's a. It's a movie that does not expire for a variety of reasons. That's just one of them. I mean, to your point, though, there are several Tarantino movies that we could have picked. And the timing of our conversation is very interesting. It was just announced recently that Kill the Whole Bloody Affair is coming to movie theaters December 5th. I saw that movie by myself on my birthday this year. That was my treat to myself. It was a Friday morning and I went to go see this four and a half hour movie.
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B
Okay. I do remember that.
- [05:21]
A
Amazing. It was breathtaking and so rewarding. But it was never formally released in theaters, so that was not eligible. I wouldn't say Kill Bill one or Kill Bill two.
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B
Okay.
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A
Death Proof, which I love. Which comes right before this. I don't think I could have gotten your approval on that one. Django.
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B
I don't think that we were ever going to go there.
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A
Okay.
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B
And Hateful eight.
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A
Good movie.
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B
Sure. But then was re released as a TV series. So, you know, this is about movies.
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A
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, this was the big debate. Would you have been happy if that was the movie that we watched tonight?
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B
Okay, but like, yes, we all love that movie. Right? Like where? That was tepid applause. Where are we on this versus Once Upon a Time? Not that you get to.
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A
I mean, I agree.
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B
You can't change it. It's done.
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A
But it is done. It's officially done. Unless we delete this episode and do this again tomorrow night. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I'm not saying that's happening. I mean, there's a million things that we can say about this movie in terms of the background and the production. It's a film that Tarantino had been working on for a very long time. He started writing it in the early 2000s. He had a hard time figuring out how to make this movie. The primary reason for that was because he could not find Hans Landa, who is one of his great creations and requires an incredible performer to fill in this role, this kind of one part evil Nazi, one part Sherlock Holmes. And he looked and he looked and he couldn't find anybody to do it. And then who does he find?
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B
Christoph Waltz.
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A
Christoph Waltz before this movie was an Austrian German actor of little renown who'd only worked in Europe and was 50 years old when Tarantino found him. And you watched this movie like we watched this movie tonight?
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B
Yeah.
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A
Like, this is one of the most entertaining performances in movie history. He is just captivating. He's a motherfucker, but he is so captivating and funny. And you can feel the actor having so much fun, realizing his moment has arrived. You know, there's something really tangible and.
- [07:27]
B
Energetic about Is funny to watch it now, what, 15 years later. And having seen all the Christoph Waltz performances that have come after and we're used to them. I mean, we watched one recently. I mean, Frankenstein, he was fine. He was doing his shtick. And he does have a note that he hits a lot. But this debut, first of all, I mean, just. You couldn't ask for a better American debut than this. But it is the perfect and the perfect melding of actor and role. But he's doing more than the one note. You know, like, he never gets back to this magical moment. Moment of both glee and competence and, like, psychosis in a very mundane, amazing way. But the way his face can just switch in a second from that's a bingo to I am literally about to murder you after I order you a glass of milk. It's incredible. He won the Oscar, then he won another Oscar in a Tarantino film, and then, I don't know, he was just inspector and other stuff.
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A
Yeah, he's. He's a wonderful actor. He's never reached the heights of this movie again. His second Oscar for Django Unchained was very surprising, but there's just something about him. I wonder if he will surface again in the final Tarantino movie. He says the next movie is his last movie. There's really an opportunity there for him to write one more part for Walt. I think of this movie also as a pretty pivotal one in the Tarantino arc. The. There is something about his reputation where he's, like the great synthesist. He's somebody who pulls from all kinds of movie history and puts it in a blender and makes something very special. It's not that he doesn't do that in this movie. I just think that this is the movie where he finally transcends that reputation. There's plenty of World War II movie escape, movie energy in this. The Dirty Dozen is a huge inspiration. There already is a movie called the Inglourious Basterds, directed by Enzo Castellari, which I know you watched five times to prepare for this conversation, but this is one where it feels like this is his invention. This is his world.
- [09:40]
B
Well, and in addition to all the references, movies are a huge part of the actual text. Like, we watched a movie theater be the main location and then eventually blown up. One of the spies is a former movie critic. Another is a movie star. They are referencing actual movies as a means to the plot. It's like Diegetics. So he is bringing everything in, but it's almost like he's acknowledging this is my intention. Yes. This will be a thing about movies and how I've consumed them and how I imagine them. Yeah, I reimagine them.
- [10:24]
A
And the real hero of the movie is a Person who is the real hero of the night, the projectionist, you know, the projection is the person who shows us films, and hopefully not tonight burns us all alive inside of a locked movie theater.
- [10:36]
B
Yeah, I mean, the final image of, like, all of the old 35 millimeters, like, going up in flames as he rewrites his own cinema history. It's, you know, it's on the nose, but it's really good.
- [10:48]
A
Let's talk about that. So the big takeaway from this movie was that this was a reimagining of history, a revisionist history, a what if sort of thing. And that has happened before. You know, there are a lot of movies that I really like that are sort of like that. Jfk, you might say, sort of reimagines how history really played out. How do you feel about the idea of him showing us what could have been if we could have exploded the high command all in one room?
- [11:13]
B
Yeah, there was a lot of controversy at the time. Yeah. Just so you in the front row who have never seen this before, people were like, huh, this is what you're doing. And there were. The reviews were pretty mixed. Fifteen years later, it feels less a hot button and also kind of less like. I mean, I guess, yes, that didn't happen irl that we know of, but especially now that the Tarantino.
- [11:41]
A
Are you saying that didn't happen.
- [11:44]
B
That we know of? But, you know, the movies that Tarantino has made sense are sort of, I mean, an antebellum and then like a reimagining of like a Western whodunit, and then the real reimagining in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which is another thing of, like, what if this happened? But actually it happened completely differently. And so I start to see it less in terms of he is rewriting history and more he is rewriting movie history or the movies in his head and everything that came before and offering his own version. So it's still very satisfying to watch Hitler get his face blown off, like, 45 times, and then they put more bullets in. But I don't know. How do you feel about it now?
- [12:35]
A
I think that's right. I think that there's definitely something to. Probably the way that I experience a lot of history now, which is through movies. When you're 11 and you're in social studies class, you're learning about things that are happening for the first time. But once you've accepted that information and synthesized it, if you're a movie freak like I am, it tends to become like, well, what happened? And where eagles dare. And is that what really happened in that mission in that time in history? And it is him synthesizing through that way. But I think there's also just something genuinely emotional about his relationship to revenge. And if that's a freed slave who fights back and is able to kill a slave owner in the Deep south, or if that is as saving the life of Sharon Tate and annihilating Manson family members, I think that there is something genuine and emotional and deep about what he's trying to do and put on screen and give us the sense of catharsis. Like, this is a real movie of catharsis, even though a lot of our heroes are killed or violently maimed or blown up or captured or assassinated in taverns. When you get to the end of this movie and that Ennio Morricone, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. I'm like, yes, yes, we did it.
- [13:46]
B
Movies, though I still rewatching it again. I find all the Shoshana stuff quite sad. And, you know, and especially like the overhead shot and the score that comes in and there is in the revenge, still a lot of sadness and maybe not little reality, but literal reality, but a sense of what this cost.
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A
Let's talk about Brad Pitt.
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B
Okay.
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A
This is not the first Brad Pitt film on our list, is it the last? Let's not reveal that.
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B
Okay. I was like, I'm gonna have to think really hard.
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A
Don't say anything. You know, this performance is pretty weird because it's very affected. Right. He's doing a real accent. It's very jokey and hammy, and yet I can't imagine the movie with anybody else. No, I can't picture anybody else trying to do Aldo.
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B
This entire movie has amazing line readings, like, to a person. And amazing dialogue, by the way, in addition to Tarantino being able to. He's one of the great scene writers, but obviously dialogue just a. You know. So oblige him is one of many quotes that rings in my head.
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A
A sauerkraut Sandich.
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B
Yeah. So definitely weird. I spent a lot of time in that part of Tennessee, and I never heard anyone speak like that. But that's okay because in addition to it being really big, there is. It's not flat, but it's giving Hans Landa all the space to be as big as he needs to be. And there is almost a deadpan quality to what Pitt is doing that's very much a choice and very smart and balances out the energy between the two of them. He's fantastic in it.
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A
Yeah, I really like this one. Obviously it kicks off a relationship with them. And he goes on to do amazing Oscar winning work. And once upon a time in Hollywood as well, I was struck by Eli Roth this time around. He also is one of the only actors who like, really knows what movie he's in where he's like, I don't give a fuck. Yeah, yeah, Teddy fucking ball game. And particularly when he's holding a machine gun and his eyes are bulging out of his head and he's just really excited to be murdering Hitler in real time.
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B
But don't forget when, you know, when they finally make it to the premiere and Tony Margheriti and the little hand gesture, really, really funny stuff.
- [16:08]
A
What would you say is your favorite scene in this movie? Because you mentioned that the opening, there's this interrogation sequence, there's the tavern sequence, there's the big explosion at the end. There are a great many moments.
- [16:19]
B
I mean, it's gotta be the tavern, right? Which is its own world unto itself. And has the intro scenes and Wilhelm and Maximilian and, you know, and also life lessons. Don't fight in a basement. So. And then once August Diehl shows up, has a heads up game, it's got a classic Tarantino cinema bit in the middle that's also about, you know, American history.
- [16:46]
A
That's his famously, his review of King Kong, his reading of King Kong.
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B
And we, we recognize that as Tarantino stands. But it also plays perfectly within the scene. And then the very tense dramatic. Well, the whole thing is tense, but the conclusion with the three fingers, I can't do the German one, so I would also give it up. Yeah, no, I can't do it.
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A
Try glazing.
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B
Yeah. So one note I had on this rewatch, they're not very good spies.
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A
So.
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B
So I guess I wouldn't be either because I can't do the three. But I had some notes. I also. We don't know anything about Brigitte von Hammersmark's like, cinema career, but I wouldn't say that the acting is the subtlest I've ever seen.
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A
Oh, I see.
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B
Yeah. So I'm just putting that out there.
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A
They failed because they're bad spies and bad actors.
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B
I mean, they gave many things away many times.
- [17:43]
A
Yeah. Tarantino has said that he sees Bridget von Hammerschmark as like Greer Garson and Mrs. Miniver, which I'm sure is a reference many people here understand. You know, she's obviously somewhat modeled on Marlene Dietrich, who did not stick around in Germany for the Third Reich. Probably quite wisely but that she has a kind of a similar screen presence and was sort of a bombshell and a singer. And, you know, I think she's under some duress in these scenes. So I'm gonna give her some latitude for her inability to perform after getting shot in the leg amidst a crazy basement shootout.
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B
Like you don't actually have to stay for a drink once there are all those Germans there. You could just leave.
- [18:20]
A
It's a good point. I wanted to talk to you about Michael Fassbender. So at the time of this movie, Fassbender was a fast rising star in Hollywood. And it dawned on me watching this the last couple of times that this is probably the closest we're ever going to get to seeing him as James Bond. And he gets a series of James Bond esque sequences in this movie. He gets this introduction to his mission in which he gets to basically host a movie podcast for five minutes, which is very charming. And Mike Myers doing fascinating work as a elder British lieutenant. And I love the bar in the globe that's straight out of a British spy thriller. Wonderful stuff. And then when he is down in the basement, a lot of fake laughing and we catch him a lot of teeth. Yes.
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B
Which you don't otherwise see from him very often.
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A
He doesn't play that card very often. And then finally, at the final moment, before he knows he's done for, shortly before Hugo Stiglitz says goodbye to August Steel's Nazi balls Wiedersehen. But anyway, he switches over back to his British accent and he's doing some version.
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B
The Kings.
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A
The Kings, yes. He's doing some version of David Niven or George Sanders, a sort of, you know, 1940s British star. And I wish we could have gotten him as James Bond. I really think that would have been nice. Now I know your beloved Daniel Craig. He did well. That was fine.
- [19:44]
B
Yeah. And he did well. That was fine. I do think also, you know, Fazbender's doing a good send up of all of those characters and James Bond. So I think that he would have been great. And also this is probably what disqualified him, you know, Cause he's hamming it up also because the broccoli's. I don't know what they were up to, but getting very rich. Yeah, this is good for them. But he's past the joke at this point, so I think he would be okay. I mean, he would be good as a James Bond, but he's funnier as this. And then being really weird in movies.
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A
Ever since his part in this movie is fascinating because he is of German, Irish, English descent and he speaks English, Gaelic and German.
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B
In real life.
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A
In real life, yeah. And so that. That much like Landau or much like, excuse me, much like Christoph Waltz, he. How many actors could have really pulled this off? And he said, he said in interviews that he is purposefully making his German accent a little bit strange so that that scene is coherent. He was like, if I needed to speak in a perfect German accent, I could do it. But just for this part I made it seem a little bit strange, as though I was from Pittsburgh.
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B
Wasn't he born in Germany and then he moved to Ireland? And didn't he also audition for Landa like multiple times and really wanted it?
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A
Yes.
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B
So that's. I feel for him.
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A
He does say that German is his third best language and his second best is Gaelic. And I think you should do the rest of this. Gaelic.
- [21:22]
B
Okay. Yeah, I don't. I mean I would. I'm sorry, I can't actually try. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends who support you and your passions.
- [21:33]
A
Think of all of the times on this show when you've had to sit here and listen to me talk about my love for physical media and all of my recent Blu ray splurges.
- [21:42]
B
Yes, like those friends and like me, State Farm is there to help you along the way. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have support in finding what fits for you. Go online@statefarm.com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there Melanie Laurent.
- [22:03]
A
I mean, definitely another actor who I'd never seen until this movie. This was the first time. And you mentioned that you find her bit quite a bit sad. Talk about why you like her.
- [22:12]
B
Yeah, well, I mean she is the Shoshana. And we first see her hiding behind floorboards that absolutely devastating panned down where every time I watch it, even though I know it's coming, your stomach kind of sinks with it as what you suspect is confirmed to be true. And then she just shows up again in Paris in just absolutely slammin trousers and owns a. Should I get that button down cardigan that's just Dobbin style. You know, I was. I mean tonight I clocked that she's like actually wearing it in the video or I'm sorry, the film that she makes when she. Right before they burn it down. So I don't know if that would be appropriate for me to Wear.
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A
But she is Emmanuelle Mimiu style icon.
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B
I think she is also hair icon, but it seems like a lot of twistings evolve. Anyway. She manages to be both like an amazing, indifferent, impervious French bitch and a very wounded, obviously, person walking around. And she communicates both the anger and the tragedy that you really. You need to feel this revenge. Because there are two revenge plots in this movie. Right. And one is the comedic and one is the emotional catharsis. So she's a very tricky job. And she also doesn't overdo it. She is more reserved opposite Daniel Bruhl, who is like a very annoying golden retriever or whatever the German equivalent would be, and very good at that. I mean, that's what the character is supposed to be. But, yeah, I mean, this movie, to her performance is excellent.
- [24:05]
A
Yeah. Bruhl also was sort of a discovery after this, had been recommended by a couple of actors to come onto this film. I think Fassbender recommended him, actually, and he is wonderful. He's become a staple of American and English productions over the last 15 years, too. And Frederick Zoller is also an interesting figure, kind of pulled from movie history, except really more American movie history. You know, Audie Murphy, who was a war hero who eventually became a US Film star. And there's even a reference to Sergeant York, the Gary Cooper film that is modeled on a true life story during World War II. There's just dozens. We could spend an hour just going, you know, coursing through all of these details that he puts into the movie.
- [24:44]
B
You've also got a little subset here of just, like, within the Tarantino world. There are a bunch of references. Do you want to read those?
- [24:52]
A
Yeah, sure. But you vamp while I scroll through the document.
- [24:55]
B
Okay, great. Keep going. It's right after Sergeant York in the document, just so you know.
- [24:59]
A
Well, according to Quentin, Aldo Rain is Floyd from True Romance's grandfather.
- [25:05]
B
Okay.
- [25:06]
A
I mean, which is something I like. Okay. I want to say I appreciate that level of attention to detail. Floyd, of course, best known for smoking weed out of a bear bong on the couch.
- [25:20]
B
Yeah. Consistent.
- [25:21]
A
You know, he does give up his friends, unfortunately, in that film, so he doesn't have the same integrity as his character. Grandfather, it appears.
- [25:30]
B
Right.
- [25:31]
A
Thoughts? There's another one, which, of course, another True Romance connection. Donnie Donowitz, the bear Jew, as portrayed by Eli Roth, is the father of Lee Donowitz, who's the producer in the film True Romance, of the legendary Vietnam film Coming Home in a Body Bag, which I think is playing here. At the Egyptian in a couple of weeks, we'll all be gathering to see it. And, you know, this is obviously something Quentin does. He has a connected universe of a sort. This is a slightly more mild version of it, but I like this one very much. I also just like that this movie still has a couple of flourishes. One of the biggest laughs I think we got here tonight was when Hugo Stiglitz's name hits the screen just in the first third of the movie. And then you get that metal guitar riff, and then we hear Sam Jackson's voice. Nice to just hear Sam Jackson saying Quentin Tarantino dialogue. And he just briefly tells the side story of Hugo Stiglitz and later explains how flammable nitrate film is.
- [26:31]
B
Right. And then no other directors do shit like that.
- [26:35]
A
I don't know why people are not confident enough to just stop their movie and let Sam Jackson explain the history of nitrate film. Yeah, Cowards. Don't you think?
- [26:44]
B
I do. We haven't talked about Diane Kruger.
- [26:48]
A
We haven't.
- [26:49]
B
I just, you know, I like smoking, drinking and ordering in restaurants. Was very important to me the first time I saw it and was still important tonight.
- [26:57]
A
Yeah. As far as I know, it's still something you're interested in. Another actress who Tarantino originally thought was too American. He did not realize how German her bonafides were and gave her performance in German during an audition. And he was blown away and cast her. She's on the mind this year. She's so wonderful in that movie, the Shrouds, the Cronenberg movie. And she's terrific in this film. It's a tricky part because you need to be glamorous and cunning at the same time.
- [27:25]
B
Right. And also when things go wrong, the mix of impatience and dedication and fear. Honestly, just like, what am I supposed to do? And especially the death scene where. Sorry, spoiler alert. That we all just watched it. If anyone at home is listening to this without knowing, I hope some people are listening. I mean, well, without having seen the.
- [27:52]
A
Movie, we know there's a lot of psychos that do that.
- [27:55]
B
Yeah. She's not the only person that dies, guys. You know, so much of that scene relies on her face, and she doesn't even have any words. And she is just communicating the dread that we all. I mean, you know, that we all feel and that. That Landa inspires in every single character, but most of them don't get long enough to communicate it. It's just very good.
- [28:23]
A
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- [29:05]
B
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- [29:34]
A
The film relies on a series of those moments. The one that is most memorable to me is the meeting of Goebbels for the first time when Emmanuel visits at the restaurant and then Landa comes in and sort of takes over and orders the strudel with the cream. Yes, just a very memorable, very tactile scene.
- [29:55]
B
Well, and before you even see him, he's just. The middle third of his body is in the frame and you're just watching Shoshanna absolutely freak out.
- [30:07]
A
Yes.
- [30:07]
B
But also keep it together.
- [30:09]
A
And she has a similar moment of fear and concern. How much do you think. Do you think that London knows? 100% that that is Shoshanna?
- [30:17]
B
My husband asked me this last night.
- [30:19]
A
It's a fun conversation point of this movie.
- [30:22]
B
So when he asked me, I said, no, I don't think he does. And then I. But I had forgotten the milk thing. And the. And the milk is probably 70% there for me. But then that moment where he says, I had one more question I wanted to ask you. And then it's pure psychological warfare. So I 100% think he knows what's going on.
- [30:43]
A
Why do you think he doesn't blow her top there, blow her cover?
- [30:46]
B
Well, she's a means to a different end for him. And also he's not doing it then. I mean, he's a very Very screwed up person who likes to play with his food before he eats it.
- [30:58]
A
Honda. Honda.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah. You know, but that is part of what I think makes the character scarier, right, Is that he's really, really. He flips between total efficiency and also being just an absolute psychotic. As opposed to the characters that we recognize, Hitler and Goebbels, et cetera. They're side characters in this film, but they're just played as buffoons. Like even Goebbels in that scene. I mean, he can't speak any French and he's just like a fatuous ass.
- [31:33]
A
Yes. His handshake is unmistakable with his limp fish raised.
- [31:40]
B
And he finally gets a thank you from Hitler at the end and he looks like he's gonna cry, so. Yeah, but I do. Do you think that Landa knows?
- [31:50]
A
I do, I do. It's unclear if he knows that he's going to use this event as a means to his ultimate freedom. End. But that's the other thing about this movie is, you know, it takes place in 1944. As Hitler says in the film, the, you know, Allied forces are on the beach. The war is, at least on that front, is coming to an end already. And everyone sort of seems to know it. So you have this. There's this recurring theme of the rat in the film, particularly when Landa is explaining the rat and the hawk at the beginning. And this movie is kind of about just rats scurrying around in the basement, scurrying around in the movie theater, scurrying around around in the back rooms. And you can see a world where someone who is as shrewd as he is and who is always one step ahead is thinking, I'm going to use all of these pieces. That being said, he's played for the ultimate fool. I mean, he's completely outwitted by the end of the film by Aldo Rain. What does he have, like a 9th grade education? Doesn't seem like he's a bootlegging. He's a bootlegger from Tennessee. He's not. But he is ultimately the master detective. Detective movies are fascinating. Usually. Almost invariably the best detective in a movie is the hero. I couldn't think of another example in which a detective is ultimately the cheap villain.
- [33:03]
B
There are some Agatha Christie's, but I don't want to spoil them for you.
- [33:06]
A
Or, you know, think I'm get around to reading them.
- [33:08]
B
Well, I was going to say are future knives out installments.
- [33:10]
A
Good point, good point. Let's talk about this movie's legacy. Okay. Because you Mentioned that there were some mixed reviews. There was some questioning of, I think, Tarantino having the right to tell the story in this way. Obviously he has a lot of his own flourishes, which some people are allergic to. I do think over time, at least in our world, amongst our friends, this is kind of the one. And I think it's because it is so relentlessly entertaining and so easy to return to. It was very easy for me to just watch it a second time time in two days. I had a lot of fun the second time around. Do you think that we're in a bubble or do you think that that's true?
- [33:50]
B
No, I mean, you know, anecdotally, when I was telling friends who wanted to know what tonight's pick would be, you told them. I did. Well, they aren't here.
- [34:01]
A
They're just even worse.
- [34:06]
B
But then I would have the Once Upon a Time discussion with them and ask and pretty much everyone has been like, no, no, no, Inglourious Basterds. Okay, so. And I was surprised to see how high it ranked on the New York Times readers list as well, which would indicate that we're, you know, you know, at least numbers wise, a lot of people are voting with us.
- [34:27]
A
They are. That was the number one film for Quentin Tarantino on that list. I think he came in at number 14 with Kill Bill at 66 and Once Upon a Time in Hollywood at 41. I want to say remember that off the top of my head, I have a disease.
- [34:42]
B
But also, we've referenced on the podcast a lot recently a recent quote that Tarantino himself gave, which was about the best film versus the favorite film versus the film only I could make. And he identified Inglourious Basterds as his best, Once Upon a Time as his favorite and Kill Bill as the film only he could make.
- [35:06]
A
Right. An amazingly self aggrandizing comment that is also 100% true. I mean, it is alarmingly accurate. And I mean, that's Quinn.
- [35:16]
B
That's why the man has self knowledge, you know.
- [35:18]
A
Yes, he's a man of self knowledge.
- [35:19]
B
In most ways, but yeah, so I guess we're everyone's on the same page. I don't know. This was always a no brainer for me. Like when we made the list, I just wrote this in and it was a question of. Of how high it would be.
- [35:35]
A
This film did premiere at the Cannes Film Festival. It was sort of rushed into production and there's a lot of stories about whether or not Harvey Weinstein wanted him to cut out significant portions of It. I heard some groaning when the Weinstein placard hits.
- [35:48]
B
That was a tough, like, very first thing to see. Especially since we didn't tell anyone what movie it was. So they were looking for clues. Yeah, sorry about that.
- [35:56]
A
It was almost Life is Beautiful, but we changed our mind at the last time minute. Anyway, the film premiered at Cannes and it did not win the Palme d'. Or. Pulp Fiction famously did win the Palme d' or and this film lost. Do you remember what it lost to? Do you know what it lost to?
- [36:11]
B
I do, because my father is very angry that the White Ribbon is not on our list. Yes, I'm sorry to my dad and anyone else, but the White Ribbon is not number three.
- [36:20]
A
I'll say. Tracy Letts is also quite mad. I've heard from him about this Michael Haneke. He probably would have been on my solo list, but the White Ribbon wouldn't have been my pick. Nevertheless, it did lose to the White Ribbon. There is some conspiracy theorizing around this because Isabel Hubert was originally cast in Inglourious Basterds and I believe she pulled out. Isabel Huppert has also worked, of course, with Michael Hannukan, the piano teacher. They are very close friends and she was the jury president that year at the Cannes Film Festival. And then mysteriously, the, you know, Inglourious Basterds did not win the White Ribbon. A wonderful film, an amazing film, but just putting that out there, just some knowledge.
- [36:58]
B
Great, thank you. For the fans at home, bring in some more JFK to this.
- [37:02]
A
So Oscar nominations. Eight Oscar nominations, only one win. Just the Christoph Waltz win. This is the Hurt Locker year.
- [37:09]
B
Yes.
- [37:11]
A
Now, the Hurt Locker is good.
- [37:13]
B
It's really good. But read out all the awards that it won.
- [37:18]
A
So supporting actor goes to. Inglourious Basterds. Cinematography, Robert Richardson. The great Robert Richardson lost to Avatar. Mm, Great film. And then six awards that this film was also nominated for went to the Hurt Locker. Those awards are in reverse order. Sound mixing, sound design, editing, original screenplay, director and picture. That's not great. That's.
- [37:44]
B
It's.
- [37:44]
A
Yeah, original screenplay. Going to the Hurt Locker. What the fuck?
- [37:49]
B
It is also, there was never a question in the moment, right? That year was just Avatar versus the Hurt Locker. And it was Kathryn Bigelow versus James Cameron, which was great because they were exes. It was a fun Oscars year. And there were some other fun films in the mix, especially in Best Picture because that was a 10. Was it 9 or 10 that year? Anyway, one of the big categories. So it never occurred to us that this would be eligible or that this would take home a boatload of Oscars. So we weren't that bad at the time, but maybe now we can be mad.
- [38:23]
A
That's not true. Don't you. I was like, what the hell is going on here? The Hurlocker is a very good film. And Avatar was, of course, a massive billion dollar sensation. And it's true that Hurlocker was widely believed for a long period of time to be the favorite, but to sweep in the way that it did was quite strange. And in retrospect, I find rather disappointing.
- [38:48]
B
The only time we've ever disagreed with the Oscars.
- [38:51]
A
What do you think's gonna happen this year?
- [38:54]
B
Just tell everybody we're not for Avatar.
- [38:57]
A
Fire and Ash.
- [38:58]
B
Best Picture. Yeah, that's it. Yeah.
- [38:59]
A
Okay. I mentioned already the Tarantino films that this is standing in for, so that's one of the categories for films this is standing in for. This is also. This is certainly our last war movie, right?
- [39:18]
B
Yes, I guess in a literal way.
- [39:21]
A
What does that mean?
- [39:22]
B
I don't know.
- [39:23]
A
Okay. It's also standing in for all the period war films that have come out this century, and there have been some very good ones. I'm gonna read a few of them off to you. Dunkirk, which we discussed.
- [39:37]
B
Some of us discuss it more than others for the Christopher Nolan episode, but that's fine.
- [39:42]
A
This is a. I think Quentin would have put dunkirk on his 25 for 25. And maybe one day he'll share that 1917, which you wanted. I said no. Downfall, about Hitler's fall, which you own on Blu Ray.
- [39:57]
B
That's the name one, right?
- [39:58]
A
Atonement.
- [40:00]
B
Yeah. Redress.
- [40:01]
A
Yep. Black book. Paul Verhoeven's film. Phoenix. Great. Christian Petzold, film master and commander. The far side of the world, where oceans become battlefields.
- [40:12]
B
Yeah, sure.
- [40:13]
A
Terrific film. The White Ribbon. Anything else? Black Hawk Down.
- [40:19]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's. Oh, all. All war films. Yeah. No, that wasn't in consideration.
- [40:26]
A
Okay. Is this standing in for anything else?
- [40:31]
B
I mean, I don't. Not really. That's. I mean, we don't have that many European films on this list.
- [40:38]
A
True.
- [40:38]
B
I think, like, Lars von Trier was the last.
- [40:42]
A
So.
- [40:42]
B
I mean, Tarantino is obviously deeply American and this is kind of refracted like five different ways, but sort of for European cinema. You're welcome.
- [40:55]
A
Yeah. I mean, it's extremely rare for a non English speaking performer to win an Academy Award, and Walt's winning was a big deal, at least in that very specific respect. Recommend it if you like, it's kind of weird to be like, you haven't seen Inglourious Basterds, but you have seen Where Eagles Dare. Like, I don't know where that would come from, but we're gonna do it nevertheless. So the Dirty Dozen, obviously a huge inspiration on this movie. I wrote down your beloved Casablanca thinking in part because this is the rare war movie that has no battles.
- [41:29]
B
Yeah. And also great dialogue.
- [41:31]
A
And. Great dialogue. Yes. And romance and Nazi killing and a few other things. What else?
- [41:39]
B
The Great Escape, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly is a huge influence on this. And really all Tarantino movies.
- [41:46]
A
Yeah. He actually said that he, as much as this is his war film, he said he sees this as his spaghetti western. And you can see because there are a lot of shots of eyes of just two big eyes on the screen. And he's really evoking Leone as much as possible. There's also Morricone music from like, five different movies in this film. And he tried to get Morricone to do the score, and Morricone was like. He asked me too late. He asked me, like, right before he needed it. I was like, how did that even happen? But nevertheless, the music that he chooses for this film is unbelievable. And, yeah, I guess to be or not to Be, maybe the Ernst Lubitsch film, another film kind of set contemporaneous during the war, but this is. I think this is a forever movie. This is one of those films that I don't think is like an idiosyncratic pick. I think it's something that has a long lasting life ahead of it. Do you agree?
- [42:35]
B
I do. How do you feel about it at number four?
- [42:40]
A
Not good.
- [42:41]
B
Okay. I know normally it's you asking me this and then I say, you know, we've moved past numbers.
- [42:49]
A
What does that mean?
- [42:49]
B
We just, you know, we're beyond where they can take us or contain us.
- [42:55]
A
You know, my wife, my beautiful wife Eileen, who's here, studied mathematics in college and is the daughter of a math professor and is an actuary in real life, and she still needs numbers. So just want to share that with you not to go beyond numbers too soon. That's pretty much it. Any closing thoughts on Inglourious Basterds?
- [43:16]
B
Thank you so much for watching it with us tonight. Especially shout out to everyone who bought a ticket not knowing what this movie was going to be and who was really let down.
- [43:28]
A
Stand up and show yourself.
- [43:29]
B
Yeah, I can't see anyone that walked out, but I wasn't looking that hard, so that's a very fun thing to do. And thank you again to everyone here at the American Cinema Tech.
- [43:41]
A
If you're not a member of the American Cinema Tech, I highly, highly recommend you become a member and join and come to as many screenings as you possibly can. And also want to say thank you to everyone who works at the Egyptian Theater, which is really just one of the absolute jewels of Los Angeles. If you live here, this is an unbelievable place to see movies on a regular basis. I want to say thanks to the Ringer Events team, especially Charlie, who really held us down today. Thanks to everybody on the Ringer team on the audio video side, especially our producer, Jack Sanders, everyone who is here. Amanda, thanks to you.
- [44:12]
B
Thank you to you for being a.
- [44:14]
A
Part of my life and this podcast. This episode is coming out this month and then I'm gonna do the thing where I say what's coming up next. So guess what's coming up on the next episode after this one.
- [44:26]
B
This is an incredible one, too.
- [44:28]
A
It's gonna be wicked for good. We'll see.