Loading summary
Transcript394 lines
- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a movie to stream, State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:26]
B
This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheezy Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It? That would be a top notch podcast. You could hear them crunching in my mouth. You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain. Oh man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you. Anyway, what was I talking about?
- [00:46]
A
Oh yeah.
- [00:48]
B
Oh Cheez it.
- [00:49]
A
Yeah.
- [00:49]
B
Cheez It Crackers. Go check em out.
- [00:58]
C
Foreign.
- [01:02]
A
I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Lady Bird. And different things can be sad. It's not all war. I was wondering if we should have done that where I read the chalamet lines and you read ladybirds lines.
- [01:16]
C
There are a lot of things that she says to him that I really don't want to say to you or vice versa. So what do you mean? But I did note you filled out the shell of this outline and then I did everything else. But I thought it was funny that you picked a quote from that one chalamet scene out of all the many quotes that you could have picked.
- [01:34]
A
That is actually my favorite exchange in this movie. So let's talk about Lady Bird. This is of course written and directed by Greta Gerwig. It is her solo feature directorial debut. She did co direct a movie with Joe Swanberg in the 2000s, but Lady Bird is her big announcement as a big filmmaker. Of course. Stars Saoirse Ronan, Laurie Metcalfe, our pal Tracy Letts, Lucas Hedges, Timothee Chalamet, Beanie Feldstein, Stephen McKinley Henderson, Lois Smith. Wonderful cast. This film premiered at the Telluride film festival in 2017. In a simpler time, were you there in movie history? I was not there. That was right before I started attending Telluride. I'm sorry to have missed it. And this is our coming of age pick and I'm wondering if you think that that is the primary reason why we have chosen this movie about a young woman who Attends Catholic high school in Sacramento, California, and then tries to figure out where her life is going from there.
- [02:26]
C
Well, it's not our only coming of age pick. It's our most traditional recognizable hits. All the notes of teenage girl in high school dealing with high school and what comes next and parents and boys and getting out of there. We have plenty of movies that are also about people figuring things out at a point. Oppenheimer.
- [02:56]
A
Yeah, I Put My Handmaiden Michael Cleton.
- [02:58]
C
Is actually a coming of age movie. It is just about a man who comes of age a little bit later in life and to some, some harsher realities than what's going on here in Lady Bird, though, again, that's a matter of perspective. This has. All of the stakes are here in life and that's particular to what it feels like to be 17 and figuring out the world and figuring out your relationship to your parents and to sex and to what you're going to be on your own. But no corporations are brought down in this movie. But there is just like a really deeply felt recognizable, but still very particular to Greta Gerwig arc of someone just trying to figure out what it's gonna be. And her, like, the stakes are the rest of her life.
- [03:51]
A
Yes, Greta is. Let's spend some time talking about her because we were both living in New York when she came of age as a movie actress and she appeared in a lot of mumblecore films in the 2000s. She's a person who, if you were at. I'm trying to think of what's an appropriate bar that I probably saw her in, like the Pink Pony maybe on the Lower east side in the 2000s. She was just like, I feel like Max Fish, but Max Fish, which is, I think, right next door. I don't even know if those bars are still there anymore. But she was a person who was just around that, like I had mutual friends of. I never met her, I didn't know her, but she was just kind of a staple of a certain kind of like artistic young person trying to make it in New York City as opposed to in Los Angeles. And that does play in ultimately to Lady Bird. And it has been kind of fascinating to watch her become really the rocket ship of our generation. I mean, she is the signature millennial filmmaker. Is that too strong a thing to say?
- [04:56]
C
No. But some of it is because of the projects that she's chosen. And she has leaned into that a little bit. Right. Like this is, ah, signature millennial movie along with a voice of a generation from Girls but it is.
- [05:11]
A
But that's Girls is sort of like about.
- [05:13]
C
Yeah, yes.
- [05:14]
A
Real life Greta Gerwig.
- [05:16]
C
But this is part of the reason that this is such like an ah, millennial movie is because it's set in 2002 and it is very much like, okay, we are gonna use the millennial references. We are setting it. It takes on the mantle. Right. And she in a different way takes on the mantle with Little Women and certainly with Barbie is like, okay, watch this. You know, like, I'll do it. I can, I can take the IP and the doll of it all and turn it on its head and turn this into like a billion dollar thing. So she, she has embraced in her own way, I think, being like, okay, I will be a voice of a generation. There are a lot of filmmakers who kind of emerged at the same time as her and speak to like, don't speak quite as literally to millennial ideas. But like definitely our group to me, there's like a class, like a mid aughts, like class of filmmakers. The rest of them are men. She's the only woman. So maybe that has something to do with.
- [06:15]
A
She is. I'm sure there are some women, but the sort of like the most celebrated, most touted, most box office successful of those filmmakers. And you know, you mentioned this in the doc here that we didn't pick any of their movies. We didn't pick any movies from Ari Aster or from Ryan Coogler or the Safdies or. Who else is on that list? Damien Chazelle. There are no Chazelle movies on this list. Heartbreaking for me.
- [06:39]
C
Of course, that was tough. That was on the bubble. And I think the selection committee will episode. We'll discuss that.
- [06:46]
A
Yes.
- [06:47]
C
Uh, we've, we've already talked about Barry Jenkins moonlight, you know, and this is another. This is a year after Moonlight. In the. In the Mood for Love could also stand like five different movies are standing in for Moonlight.
- [07:00]
A
Yes.
- [07:01]
C
On our list. I, I put, you know, Alex Garland is not on this list either. Um. Yeah, yeah.
- [07:06]
A
What's that about? I would have chosen Ex Machina, a film I love. Uh, this is also, I believe, the only A24 film on our list. And I think a lot of those filmmakers that we just named there is. It really participated in the rise of a 24 as the signature independent film studio. Really is certainly in a post Weinstein world. Yeah. And that is quite interesting because this, when this movie was released, it became a 24's biggest hit of all time. We think of a 24. And we're like, oh, hereditary and now Civil War. Like, these are the box office hits. You know, brawny, you know, male driven, male filmmakers. The bro y mentality around the fandom. But Lady Bird made $70 million. This movie was a huge hit. Huge hit. And one of the reasons why it was a huge hit, I think, and you feel free to check me on this, is it's a very familiar outfit, a very familiar set of clothing. There is. Each generation gets a. Oh, you mean.
- [07:59]
C
Like the literal wardrobe?
- [08:01]
A
No, no, I mean the framework of the movie.
- [08:03]
C
Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:05]
A
Like when I wore my Catholic schoolgirl uniform, it was very familiar to me. No, it's just that, you know, there are a lot of movies over the years about teenagers or adolescents figuring out how to go into the world. It just had the modern context that if you were anywhere between the ages of 16 and 35 when this movie came out, just felt tremendously resonant. You know, I'm sure if you were older as well, but we were. We were in our 30s when this movie came out.
- [08:31]
C
I mean, it is a millennial spin on a John Hughes movie, or at least that's like, you know, one framework of what it is. There is a lot more going on in it, which is, I think, one of the reasons it's a great movie. But, yeah, we are conditioned to teen in high school, trying to. Trying to make sense of the world with pop cultural references, with this very recognizable soundtrack. Reading a book that you recognize from your time, this is because it came out in 2017 and is about 2002, is sort of time capsulee, which is the way that you and I experience John Hughes movies, because we are not of that generation, but those were being made at the moment for the audience that was seeing them.
- [09:20]
A
Yes, it was about being a teenager at that time in the history.
- [09:25]
C
And so there is a layer of both nostalgia and, you know, kind of like memory and examination to this movie that I think makes it slightly more sophisticated. But, yeah, it's like it's still. If you Google best teen movies, Lady Bird comes up.
- [09:42]
A
Yeah, I've done jags on the recent history movie, but I think it's a fairly unexplored concept of setting your movie somewhere between five and 15 years in the past, which means that it's a little easier to get over the hump from a budget perspective in terms of production design and music. Everything feels a little bit more relatable. And it also, it bridges two generations to get emotionally invested. Like, there are cell phones in this movie, you know what I mean?
- [10:06]
C
It is an ancient text, but they're not texting. The cell phone is introduced at the end. You don't have to reproduce anything on screen. I do wonder in five years or ten years what the recent history movies will look like. I think some of the appeal of this particular setting is that you don't have to deal with cell phones.
- [10:23]
A
Yeah, maybe it's a little hard to say. The thing that's interesting to me about this, from our perspective is Greta is 42. She is literally right between me almost a year exactly between the two of us in age. And so her cultural reference points and her point of view and the things that interest her. This movie makes me feel the way that my parents must have felt watching the Big Chill, where I'm like, this is alarmingly close to, if not the literal details of my life than the emotional details of how it feels to go through the night.
- [10:57]
C
I don't know how anyone watches the Big Chill and feels anything other than, like, wait, so why did Kevin Kline sleep with Mary Kay Place? Like, I just.
- [11:06]
A
Well, because generationally, that was a hangover from, like, a group of people who thought they were gonna have, like, a free love, loose, radical world, you know?
- [11:12]
C
Okay. I guess.
- [11:14]
A
But to me, it maps on perfectly. I'm not saying that the details of the Big Chill are specific to Lady Bird, but I think that there is something about what people thought their lives were gonna be and how they turned out. And. And there's something about the aspirations of Lady Bird, who's this really forthright, fearless, difficult, you might say, challenging teenage girl.
- [11:38]
C
She expresses herself.
- [11:39]
A
Yes. Inspired, but a bit frustrating.
- [11:43]
C
Yeah. The nifty thing about the Lady Bird character in the context of, like, you know, teen heroes and heroines in movies, is that she is. She's not like, the popular cheerleader. She is not the all American, everything makes sense to me girl. She's a little bit of an outsider, to your point. Like, she. She doesn't always behave. She is a little provocative from time to time, and she doesn't, like, fit neatly into the traditional high school social structure. But she's not a loser. Like, she has friends. She has a lot of confidence. You know, she, like, runs for office every year and makes really weird art posters. And when she's speaking to the. The principal about it, she's like, it's a tradition of mine. Like, don't worry, I won't win. She is. She has, like, great ambitions, but, like, is not great at school. She, like. She's not flailing. She is just, like, in development, as opposed to fully developed. And it's nice that she's complex, but it's also just nice that she has a sense of her place in the world already, that she has confidence. Because so many of these characters are just like the sad girls in the corner who then get magically wanded into the pretty girl and the dress that they have.
- [13:09]
A
And she's all that.
- [13:10]
C
Yeah, exactly. And that's depressing.
- [13:11]
A
Well, one of the things that I think is most perceptive about this movie that I very much relate to is that in the typical Hollywood orthodoxy of these kinds of stories, it's very much about the cool kids and the uncool kids, the jocks and the nerds. To me, I was a person who prided himself on straddling the line as much as I could between that concept. But to me, school was always separated, and this film is clearly very separated by class. That this is a movie about what do you have and what do you not have and what do you see other people have and what do you want? A big part of Lady Bird's kind of desire for the concept of happiness is, if only I could live in this house. If only I could be on this side of the tracks. If only I could have these things, then I would feel more whole. Which is a very adolescent perspective, but is also an adult perspective, too.
- [14:01]
C
Well, she and her mom go open house shopping on a Sunday, like, in a moment of reconciliation. Like, do you want to end in a moment when Lady Bird is feeling very low because she just had on special sex with the Kyle character, played by Timothee Chalamet, to make her feel better. They go to all the fancy houses and it lingers on. Not just Lady Bird, but also her mother, played by Laurie Metcalfe, admiring, you know, the tiling in the kitchen, the windows. And it is shot in a beautiful way that understands the power of good real estate and. And sunlight. And in those rooms, the world just seems more open than it does in their own home, which is smaller, feels cramped. Everyone's waiting for the bathroom all the time. Yeah, it is very, very much about class and money. The references. There's the famous, like, I need to buy this magazine. That's something the rich people do. We're not rich people. You know, they're always shopping at the thrift store. The mom always needs an extra shift. Just like the constant work that it takes to just barely get by, which is true of so many Americans, but not something you often see In a movie like this.
- [15:22]
A
Yeah. Cause they're usually Hollywood productions, and that would get in the way. There are some exceptions to that across, you know, all the years we talked about. Say anything recently on the 1989 draft. That's a movie that has some interest in the idea of class.
- [15:32]
C
Pretty in Pink. It's. You know, most of the John Hughes kids live in, like, very fancy Chicago suburbs, but not all of them.
- [15:40]
A
Yes, but this one feels different. I think also the idea of this being an independent film and a film, you know, Greta's roots are an independent film. That there is, like, a little bit more realism colliding with some of that Hollywood sensibility in a way that is very appealing. You know, we still do see Lucas Hedges grandmother's home. We do still see the elegant side of Sacramento, recently portrayed in one battle after another as well.
- [16:03]
C
Is that actual house in Ladybird? Because they do the montage of that street.
- [16:08]
A
It's a one for one battle. Yeah.
- [16:10]
C
And I was like, is that might be very quick. Yeah. With the turret.
- [16:13]
A
Yes. And that's the other thing, too, is that Greta Gerwig is from Sacramento. This film is set in Sacramento, a city that, until recently, was not seen on screen very often is. You know, even though it is the capital of our state, is often considered a second city. I have been. I don't really remember why I was there, but I have been. I didn't spend a lot of time there.
- [16:29]
C
I've never been.
- [16:30]
A
I think I was in a connecting flight out of Sacramento, so I wasn't doing the Lady Bird tour. Not that it seems like there's a ton to see, but. You know, my friend Cole Kutchna, who hosts the Dissect podcast, He lives in Sacramento. He loves Sacramento.
- [16:43]
C
Real emphasis on my.
- [16:44]
A
Do you know Cole? I don't even know.
- [16:46]
C
I'd love to know Cole, but I.
- [16:47]
A
Was just kind of like, cole is wonderful. He's a genius. I think this is a very smart movie. Not just about class, but about what it means to live in a second city as well. Because so much of what Lady Bird wants is this idea of, like, getting out.
- [17:02]
C
Yeah.
- [17:02]
A
Of getting free, of seeing what else is out there. I assume you related to that.
- [17:06]
C
Oh, yeah. Deeply. Not that Atlanta is like a second city, but it's not New York. Isn't it? Well, I don't know. I'm not. I'm not gonna speak down to the Atlanta people. I know that you had a tough experience there, but that was. That was you and the Mets had.
- [17:20]
A
Nothing to do with the fine people of Atlanta.
- [17:21]
C
That's because you went to Truist Park. So that was a mistake outside the city walls. But also just the idea of going to New York and this fancy life of writers and culture. And as she says in the car, I want to go somewhere where there is culture, like New York or Connecticut or New Hampshire where writers live in the woods, which I literally did go to college in New Hampshire, where writers live in the woods. So I get it.
- [17:51]
A
You didn't stay in New Hampshire, though.
- [17:52]
C
This. No, I didn't. This film opens with a Joan Didion quote about Sacramento, a very knowing quote about Sacramento, which is like a, you know, Gerwig's homage to the great Sacramento that went before her. But also, like, we were all trying to be Joan Didion, you know, for 15 years there and, like, moving to New York and then, I guess, having a nervous breakdown and moving to LA and trying to write screenplays with her husband. I've done two episodes. Who can relate to.
- [18:23]
A
Yeah.
- [18:23]
C
So, you know, even that is like a very generational. I have always felt deeply, like, understood and, like, never quite indicted by Greta Gerwig. But, you know, like the Leo meme that Leah. Once upon a time.
- [18:39]
A
Yeah. I think it's because her films are so warm. You know, there's just the real sense of. Even though Lady Bird and her mother have this deeply fractious relationship that I know is very common among many mothers and daughters. And you can talk about that better than I can. The energy, the way that the film is shot, the way that the scenes and interiors are lit, the way that the music is used, the connection between certain people, especially, I find, between Lady Bird and Beanie Feldstein's character. Beautiful. That is a very tender portrayal.
- [19:07]
C
It's a titular role.
- [19:09]
A
That part's not so tender. But, you know, near the end of the film, when she goes over to her apartment, that's a very special thing to portray. So her movies do have, I think, a very. If they're indicting anyone. It's kind of the self. It's like the one's own desire to be bigger than we are. It's ironic because has any. Is anybody bigger than Greta Gerwig now? Like, can a movie be bigger than Barbie? And so it's fascinating to watch her progression as a director because she's kind of. She's going up and up and up. Her next thing is Narnia. You know, I don't. I don't. Where do you even go after that? I would love. I Mean, I personally would love to see her scale down, back a bit because she's so good at this kind of film. But tell me about mothers and daughters. Cause Laurie Metcalfe is such a. Such a wonderful performance in this movie. A legendary actor.
- [19:56]
C
Yeah, you know, cinema is obviously built on fathers and sons and you guys just not been able to work things out and. Yep, we're working on it.
- [20:05]
A
Just heard from my dad this morning.
- [20:07]
C
Oh, that's nice. Hi, Mr. Fantasy.
- [20:08]
A
He said, how are you doing? Yeah, you can call Ned.
- [20:10]
C
Do you think that. No, I can't. But that's okay.
- [20:13]
A
He's a real Mr. Fantasy.
- [20:14]
C
He's a real Mr. Fantasy forever. Will he be okay with Lady Bird or do you think. Or is he still smarting about Marie Antoinette?
- [20:21]
A
I don't think he would care for Marie Antoinette. I think he'd be okay with this.
- [20:26]
C
Okay.
- [20:26]
A
I'll bet Grace loves this. Grace and I haven't talked about it.
- [20:29]
C
Hi, Grace.
- [20:29]
A
But I'm sure Grace loves Lady Bird.
- [20:32]
C
Yes. So I've learned a lot about fathers and sons over the years.
- [20:37]
A
Yeah, you don't say.
- [20:38]
C
From watching movies. And now I'm learning about it firsthand. So so far everything's pretty good.
- [20:44]
A
Yeah, it's gonna take a turn at some point. No, your husband is a wonderful father.
- [20:49]
C
He is present. And so far it seems uncomplicated. But, you know, past generations didn't really have that work out. We don't really have a lot of mother daughter movies. And there are some mom movies, but even those are mostly made by a male director. And about mother son, which. Listen, you know, like I. I'm living that. I appreciate it.
- [21:11]
A
Yeah, you are a boy mom.
- [21:14]
C
Yeah. But there is. And something very, very specific. Even though it affects like half the world or at least a quarter of the world, like a lot of people about moms and daughters. That is complicated and often ugly. And like, you don't really outgrow. That's the other thing it was. I hadn't seen this in a couple years. And so as watching it now, I still mostly relate to Lady Bird. I'm watching the Laurie Metcalfe character and I'm like a little bit like, what are you doing? And I'm kind of watching as a mother. But also I don't know if I'll ever let go of being maybe like, I will always be a daughter of a mother when watching this sort of dynamic because it lives on and you can't really escape it. Like, the mom figure looms so large in our understanding.
- [22:06]
A
No, I mean, of course I relate to that because of all the dad son movies that have come over. I think that character is really interesting because Laurie Metcalf, I think to most people is Roseanne's sister, you know, on. On. On Roseanne and the Connors. And, you know, I think to people who pay a little bit closer attention, she's a legendary stage actress and with deep roots in Chicago and Steppenwolf. And she is known for taking on thorny parts, complicated people, and she's a very assertive and strong actor. She's like a real tidal wave kind of actor. When she's on screen, you know, she's in a scene. So she's a perfect fit for this part because she is attempting to control her daughter.
- [22:49]
C
It's incredible performance. The performances across this movie are not perfect.
- [22:53]
A
But her mom, I mean, the way that I read it, and I'm sure that I'm projecting some of my own mother onto this movie. But, you know, my mom was a product of that big, chill generation. She was a person in the 60s and 70s who felt like she not only had her whole life in front of her, but felt like the world was changing because of her.
- [23:10]
C
Right.
- [23:12]
A
And then life can get very disappointing, and how do you handle it? And when you have kids and you see your kids wanting more, but you know that you can't give them specifically what they want and how bad that makes you feel, there's a very specific energy in that performance and in this character that I feel like I really understand and I really like. And it's really rare, the complexity of it, because Laurie Metcalf is so unafraid to be unlikable, to be difficult.
- [23:39]
C
Right. And I think that Gerwig and the script are unafraid to make the mother character, like, pretty ugly at times. And, you know, I wrote in here, like, as a joke, mama corner. Like, is she a good mom?
- [23:55]
A
But she's just a person.
- [23:57]
C
She's a person and it's. And she's going through stuff, and it's. It's a very tricky life. She's exhausted because she's working all of the time. And she's dealing with a teenager who is like a pill and a half. And she seems dissatisfied or disappointed or, you know, to your point, about, like, it didn't work out. There's one line she has of, like, your father and I didn't think we would be living in the same house 25 years ago, like, when we bought it. So. But she's really, really just also like hard and like a hard person to deal with.
- [24:31]
A
And she is.
- [24:33]
C
You know, the depiction of motherhood in popular culture or in American culture is something that I argue with on a daily basis, but it is rarely presented as something that is like it's. You always have to be a Madonna or you have to be failing at the job. Right. You can't be like an ugly person. So until this year's slate of movies, but this one is like, this is all of the mom movies this year about how hard it is to be a mom. And this is not. Laurie Metcalf isn't the star of this movie. She's just a person who exists, who is not making all the right decisions, but trying her best. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends who support you and your passions.
- [25:23]
A
Think of all of the times on this show when you've had to sit here and listen to me talk about my love for physical media and all of my recent Blu Ray splurges.
- [25:31]
C
Yes, like those friends and like me, State Farm is there to help you along the way. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have support in finding what fits for you. Go online@statefarm.com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [25:51]
A
One of the things that's also so perceptive about it though is that it's so clear how much Lady Bird is an echo of her mother. That there are so many things that she does that there are so many social encounters that she has where the people that she is closest to, she's so hard on, but the people who she wants to be like, who she's like, who she knows less well.
- [26:11]
C
Right.
- [26:11]
A
She can be very warm to. We see Laurie Metcalf's character be very warm to people in a work environment because she doesn't. There's not as much on the line. But Lady Bird is really tough on Beanie Feldstein's character. She starts to be really tough on these boys who she starts to become.
- [26:26]
C
Just absolutely horrible to everyone in her family except for her father who is sort of the mediator between these two very strong willed characters. And also even says at some point, you know, the birthday scene when Tracy Letts brings in the cupcake and. Cause the mom is not even acknowledging her 18th birthday, which I just, I mean, what would Dr. Becky say? You know what I'm saying?
- [26:50]
A
I don't really wanna know. She's tough She's a tough gal, her mom.
- [26:56]
C
Yeah. And the dad character says, like, you and your mother are both very strong personalities. Like, it is both mirrored in Lady Bird's more aggressive social interactions and, like, in the actual dialogue between the characters.
- [27:11]
A
I like when Tracy's character wants some of the cupcake, you know, and she's like, you want some? He's like, yes, I do.
- [27:16]
C
Well, I like at the post graduation dinner, when the Lucas Hedges character comes over, Danny comes over and like, asks about the wait list. And it just cuts to the dad character who's just like, oh, fuck, I'm really busted because I'm caught between these two.
- [27:31]
A
I've already had some experiences like that where things have been asked and I've given them, and then all of a sudden, you know, the secrets are not safe. Tracy's wonderful in this movie. You know, I heard an interview with Greta where she talked about she'd not seen Tracy in this soft of a part as a father. And he talked about in an interview how he was not a father when they made this movie. And so he had to kind of tap into something that he didn't have personal experience with. You know, he's just a. He's a warm bath in this movie. He's a very gentle soul, this character. I aspire to this level of fatherhood. This is the kind of relationship I would like to have. And if that makes me a pushover, I don't care.
- [28:08]
C
Also the enunciation of the word Doritos.
- [28:12]
A
Stellar.
- [28:12]
C
It's really beautiful. Poetic stuff.
- [28:16]
A
Yeah. Let's talk about Saoirse Ronan. So she is the star, of course, and she was a teenager when this film was made. Is that right?
- [28:24]
C
Let's see. I don't know if she's 30 now, so she might be. She might have been like, 22.
- [28:30]
A
She's 31.
- [28:31]
C
Okay.
- [28:31]
A
So this movie was made eight years ago. She's 22 when this movie's made. 21. So still fairly close.
- [28:37]
C
Eight years ago. 2017. Yeah.
- [28:39]
A
Yeah. But probably made in 16 as well.
- [28:41]
C
So she's like 18. 19. 20.
- [28:43]
A
Right?
- [28:44]
C
Yeah.
- [28:46]
A
Quite eerie how talented she is at this age and how.
- [28:49]
C
I mean, she's been talented. She was talented in Hana, the Joe Wright movie, you know, in atonement, which, like 11. Yeah. She. She has a real gift, but she's great in this. It was funny rewatching it now that we've, like, you know, it's been almost 10 years of. And I say this with love. Big Gerwig and Greta Gerwig lives So much in my own brain that you can hear the line readings, as Greta Gerwig would say them. And I think that that is really a function of this is. You know, she is such a recognizable writer and has such particular cadence in the way that she puts words and dialogue together that it's just built in that Saoirse Ronan kind of sounds like her. But this is the way that Greta Gerwig speaks at all times.
- [29:35]
A
It's funny, though, because obviously she's been on the show a few times. I've met her a few times. She's just very warm, sweet. Her public Persona is very kind. And obviously teenagers are tough. But she's gone to great lengths to say that this is not a full blown autobiography.
- [29:50]
C
Right, right.
- [29:51]
A
That, like, there are shades of her life in this movie, obviously, the location and the idea of some relationships, but that one of the things that I found amusing was that the character that she often relates to a lot in this movie is Kyle, and that she was a little bit of a. You know, what you really don't understand about the world is this kind of conspiracy theorizing.
- [30:10]
C
Cell phones.
- [30:11]
A
Yes.
- [30:12]
C
Which I find very relatable.
- [30:12]
A
Of course, Kyle, one of the most relatable characters in movie history for me.
- [30:15]
C
I mean, when he shows up reading people's History of the United States, it was just like a shot straight to my heart. If you don't think that I got a copy of that book from my high school boyfriend, then you do not know what it means to be a millennial.
- [30:31]
A
Yeah. Did you do some learning how it.
- [30:33]
C
All works for you? A little bit. It gave me that. He gave me Electric Kool Aid, acid test, and he gave me the White Album. So I'd say that's an incredible list. Right. But so, like, when I say I.
- [30:43]
A
Feel indicted by this movie, he was trying to get you to tune in, turn on and drop out?
- [30:49]
C
I guess so.
- [30:50]
A
Did you?
- [30:51]
C
Not really.
- [30:52]
A
You're like, I'm going to Dartmouth. That's very funny. Chalamet. Another thing that Gerwig said that I thought was really interesting was that she was kind of intimidated by Timothee Chalamet during the making of this movie, because even at 20 years old, she said he spoke for French and Italian and he played the piano and he had the aura. He has a tremendous aura.
- [31:09]
C
She sort of invented Timothee Chalamet, you know, in the way that gave him.
- [31:13]
A
Two of his best parts. That's for sure.
- [31:14]
C
Yeah. And also, like. And early on and understanding the, like, the sex appeal and the ooh, it's like Timmy aura around him and translating it to a wider audience. I don't. He would not be Timmy as he is today without these two performances.
- [31:33]
A
I fully agree with you. I do think that that's a big thing with directors is knowing how actors will succeed. And this movie is perfectly cast, like all around the board. You can see she also has a real admiration for character actors like Steven McKinley Henderson, Lois Smith, people who've had long careers who just dot perfectly into the lives. Now, you went to private school, but you didn't go to Catholic school. Was your Catholic school.
- [31:57]
C
No, it was not. It was sort of non denominational Christian. I really don't want to get into it. No uniforms.
- [32:04]
A
And I was going to ask like.
- [32:06]
C
You know, no clergical figures as teachers.
- [32:10]
A
I see. But in your private life, many clergical figures. I also did not go to Catholic school or private school. So I don't. That is one thing. You know, my, my, my dad did and there was a bit of, a, bit of a dispute in my youth about whether or not I would or should go and whether or not you get a better education at a Catholic school. And I suspect that that's also kind of underpinning even this family dynamic where you've got this middle class or lower middle class family.
- [32:39]
C
Miguel saw somebody get knifed.
- [32:42]
A
Exactly.
- [32:43]
C
Who's barely stabbed or whatever. So that's really funny.
- [32:47]
A
All that stuff is just also very perceptive. All the decision making, everything is very specific. I was talking with Van on Bill's show recently and he noted the.
- [32:59]
C
First.
- [33:00]
A
Album Complex for rappers, where that first album, where your whole life goes into it and it often is your best work. Nas, Illmatic, that sort of thing. This is kind of the illmatic of millennial first time directorial debuts where it's like there's so much, so much personhood, so much experience that is in this movie. I'm really kind of blown away by all the little details.
- [33:22]
C
Yeah, it's a statement of intent for sure. Though I, I don't know if we would have recognized that completely at the time because so many like Greta Gerwig themes, money, class, like young women trying to figure out their, their world in regards to money and class. Independence. Yeah, and independence. How to make art, the anxiety of making art, the power of Timothee Chalamet. Like it. I mean there are like real themes even, even through Barbie. So I think when it debuted it just felt like a, like fully realized, like, okay, this person has total command of the world. That she want to create, wants to create, how to write a script, what performances like. But I don't think that we understand that. It was like opening a whole portal to Gerwig Land. And both Little Women and Barbie so far have been, like, very consistent in her project. I don't know how she's going to make Chronicles of Narnia do that, but, you know, never count her out.
- [34:24]
A
This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply. I did ask her, when she was on for Barbie about how all of her work is about these transitional adolescent phases, how everything is about this idea.
- [35:19]
C
Literally the door in the thing. Yeah, yeah.
- [35:21]
A
You know, like, obviously this movie is about going from one phase to the next as a teenager. Little Women is also very much the exact same thing, just in that broad thematic sense. And then Barbie, too, is just Barbie becoming a real girl, you know, and developing sexually reproductive organs. And then now Narnia, too, is very.
- [35:41]
C
Similarly that Century City the other day. And I was just like, I'm in Century City.
- [35:46]
A
Yeah, it's a fine part of town.
- [35:48]
C
She's funny. She's very funny.
- [35:52]
A
There was something interesting that she's. Do you feel hooked on your adolescence? You think about it often?
- [35:57]
C
No, I try not to at all, which is what's so interesting. I don't like to feel awkward or embarrassed or uncertain. And that was a period of not knowing anything. Right. And I don't like change very much. And I don't think I was as confident as Lady Bird is or that I am now, hopefully.
- [36:21]
A
So love to put confident and hopefully in the same sentence.
- [36:25]
C
I don't know. I was feeling good there. I just really. The time changed. I have seasonal affective disorder. You know, I've just been really knocked off.
- [36:32]
A
It's been very dark lately here in Los Angeles very early.
- [36:36]
C
So I try not to think about it. I don't run towards the cringe, which is a thing that I think. I think that's a social media thing. I think millennials do that. And I think Greta Gerwig has a way of. She runs toward the cringe. I mean, certainly that's all mumblecore was about, but to your point, finds the warmth and the empathy for it. I kind of still just judge myself, so I prefer not to think about it.
- [37:06]
A
Okay, thanks for sharing all that.
- [37:07]
C
Well, you asked me, do you, like, were you your best? Did you peak at 13? When did you peak?
- [37:14]
A
Some saying hasn't happened yet. I don't really know the answer to that question. I think I'd like to give an honest answer. So I'm trying to think about the best way to answer this. I relate to Lady Bird in that I have lived a life of aspiration that I have tried to get out from under what I think I came from. And that's a very. That can be a very ugly way to be, or that can be a very empathetic way to be. And I do think I got out to Los Angeles and I was like, I'm here.
- [37:46]
C
I did it.
- [37:48]
A
I really wanted to be here, and I'm here, and I have a job that I think is cool, and I feel happy. But that all started when I was around her age. In fact, we did an episode about the movie Friendship and also Lilo and Stitch earlier this year, as usual, a very normal episode of this show.
- [38:06]
C
And on that episode, I was saying, that's funny.
- [38:08]
A
I talked about my friend Sarah and my friend Sarah, who was with me when I was that age, and I hadn't talked to her in a little while, and she reached out to me, and she was just like, I remember you at this time talking about these things. I mean, we probably had similar conversations this time.
- [38:22]
C
Would that be like in the garage and friendship era of your life or Stitch era of your life?
- [38:27]
A
No, no, in between. Like lady bird era. Like 15 in the cafeteria talking about what we want to be or who we want to be.
- [38:34]
C
Oh, okay.
- [38:35]
A
So that aspect of this, that desire I don't know about to be seen, but to be, like, to be away and to be doing something exciting, that. That is just, I think, a deeply relatable idea that's inside of this movie.
- [38:45]
C
The best photograph of me ever taken was the photo ID for college. My first, where I left, like, my. You know, I got checked in, and then I had to go and, you.
- [38:55]
A
Because you were so happy.
- [38:56]
C
You've never seen someone happier. I wish I still had it. So I guess in that sense, did I peak, like, yeah, in that moment? Cause I was like, I'm. I'm gone. I can be on myself.
- [39:06]
A
It's so interesting that a movie that is about home is so identifiable as a movie about escape. You know, that's a very nicely threaded needle there.
- [39:15]
C
Well, she can't. She can't make the phone call back at the end if she doesn't get out.
- [39:18]
A
You know, it's true.
- [39:20]
C
There has to be a change in order for them to. And some distance, really, for them to be able to make peace with each other, which is like. It's a beautiful ending to this movie, but also a little sad. Like, it's pretty sad that Lauren Metcalf, like, the Lauren Metcalf character, the mom, like, doesn't actually finish or give her any of the letters. Like, she can't get there. And they have a nice family dynamic where there's a dad in the middle who knows to be able to bridge the connection. But she never really expresses what she wants to say. And Lady Bird takes back her name and calls her parents. But, like, she does it. You know, it's. It's a voicemail. It's not even talking to her mom. It's. It's from New York to Sacramento. She's just, you know, been at the hospital for being drunk, which I really relate to the nurse on that one. Like, what do you want me to do? She's drunk. Like that. Like, that's. That's a real amateur first year party. Like, why are we calling the ambulance?
- [40:16]
A
Yeah, the. The. I would argue I was also like.
- [40:19]
C
How much did that cost? What are we doing?
- [40:22]
A
Wow.
- [40:23]
C
Didn't you wor. Don't you worry about that.
- [40:24]
A
Hillary Clinton's number one enemy has emerged.
- [40:27]
C
No, no, no. I'm just kind of like, you know.
- [40:29]
A
This happens all the time at college parties.
- [40:31]
C
What do you mean you were calling the ambulance?
- [40:33]
A
I mean, I wasn't calling the embassy.
- [40:34]
C
When people were barfing. It's called boot and rally. Like, Jesus Christ.
- [40:37]
A
That is true. It is called that. I did famously split my head open.
- [40:42]
C
Well, that.
- [40:42]
A
You gotta go. But then I didn't go. And then I went to urgent care on campus the next morning, and I had to get 25 in my forehead.
- [40:50]
C
Okay.
- [40:50]
A
And that was where?
- [40:52]
C
I can't see it.
- [40:52]
A
I know. It's almost entirely gone.
- [40:54]
C
Oh, good job.
- [40:55]
A
But for years, I had a huge scar right here, and it has Slowly gone away. And going to sleep that night was not the best idea.
- [41:04]
C
No.
- [41:05]
A
So, you know, I'm glad that Lady Bird got her ass into an ambulance and got out of there.
- [41:09]
C
I think someone could have just taken there.
- [41:11]
A
Was she with David? What was that guy's name at the end?
- [41:14]
C
I don't know, but he seems pretty boring.
- [41:17]
A
Well, he's just a classic guy you meet in college.
- [41:19]
C
Yeah, freshman year.
- [41:20]
A
I was that guy once.
- [41:21]
C
I'm worried about the cost of the ambulance, you know what I mean?
- [41:24]
A
Sure. You think that was tight? She's so coming out of her parents pocket.
- [41:27]
C
I don't know. That's what I'm stressed about.
- [41:29]
A
Okay, well, the movie's over, so don't worry about it. I do love how the movie ends, as you described in great detail. That there's no phony baloney Hollywood bullshit. It's not like a tearful call between her and her mom or her mom shows up on her dorm room doorstep and says, I've always loved you and I'm so proud of you. There's none of that shit because that's not not how things are. The movie. The fact that this movie was such an amazing success. I'm so honored, despite not giving you that is a wonderful testimony, I think, to where what I'll describe as a good movie era really settles into place. This is a nice time in movie history. We didn't quite know specifically how good we had it. There's something a little bittersweet about this being the year that we launched this show, that like 17, 18, 19, that was a very good time in movies. And it feels like it's kind of slipping through our fingers a little bit.
- [42:18]
C
Yeah, Well, I mean, 17 in particular, we named a lot of people who aren't on our list. That was also the year of get out, which is Jordan Peele's debut. And that's another person. That was the year of Phantom Thread. That was the year of Call Me by youy Name. Speaking of Timothee Chalamet. So like this was sort of the Timothee Chalamet moment. That was the year of Dunkirk. That it was. It was a really loaded year. But it also felt like for a lot of filmmakers, the beginning of something.
- [42:45]
A
I agree. It was also the year that moonlight won Best Picture because it won that February and it was the Lal and Moonlight best. You know, everything in the movie world just felt very exciting. It was smaller, but exciting. Like all of those movies you just described were not $500 million movies. They were all smaller Films, but they were very special films and they're very memorable.
- [43:06]
C
I think that's also the bigger films. That was the Last Jedi year. Right. Which in terms of even in franchise world, it was a director very, you know, close to this generation, and Rian Johnson was doing something like, very cool with big budget entertainment. And then it definitely, like, worked out very well. Everyone's response to that was very normal.
- [43:26]
A
The Last Jedi.
- [43:27]
C
Yeah.
- [43:27]
A
Is there some controversy around it?
- [43:29]
C
People did good. And then what they did with the franchise was also really strong.
- [43:32]
A
Yeah. And so many good movies since then. Yeah. I want to talk before we get into the rest of this legacy conversation, just about the music too, because I do remember the stories at the time when it was being released that Greta wrote letters to people like Dave Matthews Band and I think Alanis Morissette and a handful of other artists who appear on the soundtrack of this movie.
- [43:52]
C
Did you know that Alanis Morissette wrote this song in 10 minutes? I couldn't believe it. I was just quoting.
- [43:59]
A
Yeah. Okay. Hand in my pocket. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:02]
C
Just good dialogue writing or good improv.
- [44:04]
A
If it's probably written. You would imagine written. There's a ton of songs on this sound. This is a really good conceit for a soundtrack, which is like, here's five songs that are ingrained in your soul if you were born between 1980 and 1988.
- [44:19]
C
Yeah.
- [44:20]
A
And then here are a handful of like, well known, kind of, I don't know, you know, like memorable needle drops like as We Go along by the Monkeys. And then here are a couple of, like, smaller films that you might not. Or smaller songs you might not know as well, but that are critical, like, I think specifically of John Hartford's this Eve of Parting and the way that that's played near the end of the film, which is very, very emotionally powerful. You know, just like this is a indicator of taste. Right.
- [44:45]
C
And then also the work of Stephen Sondheim, which is absolutely so funny, every single moment of it. And also that it plays such a big role in a coming of age movie. You know, it's one of those things where it's. It's hilarious and smart and it's a familiar formula, like turned 20 degrees or maybe like 60 degrees off its axis.
- [45:08]
A
And some of it is like in joke stuff where Lady Bird in her audition sings. Everybody says don't from anyone can whistle. Which is like a much less known Sondheim. I think the song is usually performed by Harry Guardino. Like, it's a man's song. It's not a woman's song. You know, it's just one of those things where, like, that's a deep cut. Like, she's really in the streets with Sondheim references in this movie. It's not the most obvious thing you would expect, which I also really liked.
- [45:33]
C
High school doing Merrily We Roll along just because it's funny.
- [45:36]
A
But it's also that beautiful thing with the teacher Steven McKinley Henderson character who's like, they didn't get it at the end of the performance, you know, like that. Just that everybody is kind of living their own quiet, tough, creative existence. You know, everyone's got their dreams and aspirations, and nothing is quite living up. There's an Ani DiFranco song on the soundtrack. How much goddamn Ani DiFranco was the women's soccer team in my high school playing every day. Yeah.
- [46:03]
C
And then. Yeah. And then for the rest of your life with Eileen.
- [46:06]
A
Yes. And now my wife. That's one of her favorite singers. Bone Thugs, the Crossroads playing at the school dance. It was like one of those, like, a moments, you know, probably not on, like, Mo Bamba playing during one battle this year. There's a bunch of them, you know, And Dave. We grew up with Dave Matthews. You know, listen. I can't say I listen to him a lot nowadays. I don't.
- [46:28]
C
Did this turn the tide culturally? Yeah. Back on him. I think it was this scene.
- [46:33]
A
I think it was this scene and everything that Yossi Salik has done for the last five years to reinvigorate our appreciation of Dave Matthews Band.
- [46:41]
C
Right. But it was something that we were all ashamed of. I mean, listen, all of those albums went so hard for me from fourth grade maybe to, like, 10th, 11th grade. And then the Electric Kool Aid Acid Test White Album. Boyfriend was like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that anymore. And this Lady Bird reclaims it.
- [47:03]
A
Let's talk about it very quickly. So there's four albums amidst our adolescence. The first album's under the Table and Dreaming.
- [47:09]
C
Sure.
- [47:10]
A
Which is just a smash sensation. Six million albums sold. That's the one that features. What would you say was the first big single? And Ants Marching and Ants Marching and Satellite. Those are the big singles off of that album. Now I'm being a little older than you. This album hit like, crack in middle school. Every single person I knew was like, it's very important that we have this album. I'm talking about across race, gender. People fucking love Dave Matthews. I don't even really know why, but.
- [47:38]
C
This is one of the ones that made it to me, like, even. Even 10 years later. Yeah. Yeah. What's the story? Morning Glory and Under the Table and Dreaming Like I had and Jagged Little Pill. But it was like I am 10 and Cheryl Crow was Tuesday Night Music Club. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I had those. I knew every song. I knew all the records, all great albums.
- [48:00]
A
Yeah. Two years later, Crash comes out.
- [48:03]
C
Yeah.
- [48:05]
A
America and a Chokehold.
- [48:06]
C
You can't.
- [48:06]
A
It's like 10 million albums sold.
- [48:09]
C
You'll never understand if you weren't there, Jack. You will never understand.
- [48:12]
A
They did a similar thing. They did a similar thing, I think where maybe too much and so Much to say were the two first singles.
- [48:19]
C
Yeah.
- [48:20]
A
Which was kind of a weird choice because this album features the song Crash, which is critical to this film, and the delineation between Lady Bird and Kyle and kind of, you know. What kind of music do you think Kyle was into? Do we know?
- [48:36]
C
They don't give him any. What's in his room?
- [48:39]
A
I can't remember.
- [48:40]
C
The posters.
- [48:41]
A
Yeah, it's a good question. I'm sure someone will shout it out to us. Anyway, these are just very important details that the film gets right, and I'd like to thank the film for getting those details.
- [48:49]
C
I really spent a lot of time with Live at Luther College. Do you remember that album?
- [48:53]
A
Oh, of course.
- [48:53]
C
Yeah. Huge, huge fan.
- [48:55]
A
Was it Tim Reynolds? Was he the. Yes, he was the guitarist who would tour with him.
- [48:59]
C
And.
- [48:59]
A
Yeah, I saw Tim Reynolds solo.
- [49:01]
C
Oh, wow.
- [49:02]
A
At the Pines in Ithaca in 2000. 2000. Yeah. It was a cool performance. Okay. This movie's legacy. So five Academy Award nominations, zero wins. Let's go through these categories. Lost original screenplay to Get Out. That was a very cool win. You know, there's. It's got a good case, I think, because it's so well written and so specific. Supporting actress Lori Metcalf lost. Allison Janney, who was in I. Tonya.
- [49:28]
C
Okay. I like Allison Janney, but, you know.
- [49:32]
A
Not the best one I've ever seen.
- [49:33]
C
No.
- [49:34]
A
A very well run campaign by Alison Jenny in Neon. That's kind of the movie that put Neon on the map in many ways. Best actress Frances McDormand won her second of three best actress wins for Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, which is gonna be number four on this list. I'm excited to talk with you about it. Best director.
- [49:55]
C
Yep. That's what we hosted for our live event.
- [49:58]
A
As you know, I like Three Billboards. I'm a Three Billboards defender. I have strong reasons for liking it.
- [50:02]
C
I like the Frances McDormand performance.
- [50:04]
A
Okay. Director Guillermo del Toro won for Shape of Water.
- [50:10]
C
Yeah. I mean, what are you going to do? And then Best Picture, Shape of Water wins.
- [50:16]
A
Yes.
- [50:16]
C
This was an amazing movie year where all our faves were nominated and almost get out was the only for screenplay was the only fun win.
- [50:28]
A
Yeah. Dunkirk didn't really take anything significant home.
- [50:31]
C
Who won? Actor?
- [50:33]
A
That's a very good question.
- [50:35]
C
2018 best actor.
- [50:36]
A
Is that Gary Oldman from the Darkest Hour?
- [50:39]
C
Yeah.
- [50:39]
A
Okay.
- [50:40]
C
The Churchill of it all.
- [50:42]
A
You know, it's the knockdown effect of, how did Gary Oldman not have an Academy Award before this when he's widely considered one of the greatest actors? Anyway, the bafta, three noms, zero wins, no director nomination. Apparently it's controversial.
- [50:54]
C
They have issues.
- [50:56]
A
Golden Globes, four nominations, two wins. Okay, musical or comedy win. Actress, musical or comedy win for Saoirse Ronan. Saoirse Ronan, five Oscar nominations, zero wins. Is that correct? In her career?
- [51:06]
C
I think so.
- [51:07]
A
She's 31 years old at the time A.O. scott for the New York Times wrote, you might think you've seen this all before, you probably have, but never quite like this. That's about right.
- [51:18]
C
Listen, everyone loved it. It was pretty rapturous. I remember that I took my then 10 year old cousin Max to a screening of Lady Bird at Thanksgiving because we take all the younger cousins after family Thanksgiving every year. And I was like, no, no, no, no. Everyone, I got it.
- [51:37]
A
How old is this?
- [51:37]
C
No more Twilight. Max is now just started college. He's a freshman.
- [51:40]
A
Okay, so he was a teenager at this time?
- [51:42]
C
No, I think he was 10. I think he was 10. And bless him, he came with his mom, Rachel. They stayed through the whole thing. And then Max scene.
- [51:49]
A
Huh? Sex scene with Max.
- [51:51]
C
Well, I didn't sit next to him also, like, he's the youngest.
- [51:53]
A
How would that have made it worse?
- [51:54]
C
He has older. He has older siblings. You know, you have to learn about the world. And then we walked out at like 11 o' clock and 10 year old max was like, I liked it. Max is the best.
- [52:08]
A
Okay, let's have a controversial conversation now. So what movies is this standing in for? Why don't you list the first four and then let's talk about the next four.
- [52:19]
C
Okay. All right. The first four. Boyhood Whiplash, Call Me by youy name. Also a 2017 film starring Timothee, Chalamet and Moonlight.
- [52:28]
A
I think those four films represent something very specific that was happening generationally with movies with newer voices emerging. Those are all very good films, obviously, Boyhood, was, you know, Linklater had been making movies for decades, but that was a big a project about adolescence and change. The next, the first one and then the final two are the ones that I really want to get into. So you have Mean Girls on this list as well, which I think would have been an interesting choice. I think we might have talked about it a little bit when we did.
- [52:55]
C
Our comedy pick, but just, you know, in terms of girls and social dynamics.
- [52:59]
A
In high school, yes, it is kind of the. This is played more straight, but it's a very similar kind of movie. And then the next three movies are.
- [53:06]
C
What Little Women, Frances Ha and Marriage Story.
- [53:11]
A
So if this was the Sean Fennessy 25 for 25 movie podcast list, I might have considered all three of these more strongly over Lady Bird. I might have.
- [53:25]
C
Who is saying that we didn't consider them strongly together?
- [53:28]
A
Well, we did do that, but I might have chosen Frances Hay. Now it's the tough one, right?
- [53:34]
C
If this were the Amanda Dobbins 25 for 25, I would have chosen both Lady Bird and Frances Ha.
- [53:39]
A
Aha.
- [53:40]
C
So there.
- [53:42]
A
You would have removed Marie Antoinette from your list.
- [53:47]
C
How?
- [53:48]
A
I'm just joking. No, so Frances Ha is a really tricky one because that's the movie that I think introduced most people to Greta Gerwig, who were not mumblecore fans.
- [54:00]
C
Greenberg was before.
- [54:02]
A
That's true. That's true. Although Greenberg, legendary box office sensation, I.
- [54:06]
C
Still think about the scene when they're driving to get the abortion and she asks if we can go to In n Out afterwards. And Mensla says, this is your day, but I'd like probably once a week, I think to myself, in not quite as complicated circumstances, this is my day.
- [54:24]
A
I mean, that scene is a good thing to point out because I think very few filmmakers have ever understood Greta Gerwig's appeal better than Noah Baumbach. Of course they went on to get married and have a family together. But in Greenberg, I was like, I know that girl. Yeah, I really. I know that girl really well. Yeah, yeah. And I really knew the girl in Frances Ha, of course. And I really knew that in New York. And I really love that filmmaking style. I think that is a beautiful, perfect five star masterpiece movie. I think it's like one of the great movies of the century.
- [54:52]
C
So do I. I can't believe it's not on our list. But you wouldn't do it.
- [54:55]
A
We. We made this choice that it's like.
- [54:59]
C
When we air the selection special, the record will show that I pushed pretty hard and you were like, we can't have both Lady Bird and Frances. Ha.
- [55:09]
A
Well, it just. I am not trying to take any authorial credit away from Noah Baumbach. But even though Frances Ha. Even though Greta Gorey did not direct the movie, she is, like, an engineer of the movie.
- [55:25]
C
Yeah, of course.
- [55:26]
A
So it would have felt a little duplicative to me to have two of them on there. And that means, subsequently, there is no Noah Baumbach movie on here, because Noah Baumbach did not work on Lady Bird. As far as we know.
- [55:36]
C
It is disrespectful to Noah Baumbach and to both of us. Like, we have disrespected ourselves and our passions.
- [55:43]
A
I really agree with you.
- [55:45]
C
Well, how did you let it happen?
- [55:46]
A
I don't. Well, it's just. It's a trick of the light, you know, it's just something that happens when you're list making you want to talk.
- [55:53]
C
About Little Women, though.
- [55:54]
A
Well, I think there's a case for it.
- [55:56]
C
I know.
- [55:56]
A
It's wonderful. It's a great movie.
- [55:58]
C
I rewatched it on the way home from New York for our live show and was just, like, weeping, you know, at 30,000ft.
- [56:07]
A
It's an excellent adaptation because it does.
- [56:12]
C
Locate what is enduring about the original text, but it opens up all of the things that Gerwig is interested in and gets amazing performances, not just out of Saoirse Ronan, but the, you know, the Amy character and its examination of who has typically just been like a very annoying, unforgivable little sister into a whole other person is, I think, like, incredibly, it's like an amazing achievement of screenwriting. And also, like, a great performance by Florence Pugh, maybe still the best she's ever been. I don't know.
- [56:48]
A
Midsommar. But yeah, sure.
- [56:49]
C
Well, yeah. And then what it does with. Well, I mean, Emma Watson's in it, but what are you gonna do?
- [56:59]
A
What's wrong? What's wrong with Emma Watson?
- [57:01]
C
She's fine. She does okay with that character.
- [57:04]
A
Interesting.
- [57:04]
C
And did you know that she got her license suspended because she speeds around Oxford too much?
- [57:09]
A
Did this just happen recently?
- [57:10]
C
Yeah, I find kind of funny, actually.
- [57:15]
A
I'm surprised she's driving at all.
- [57:16]
C
The Meg character is, like. Is not as principled a character just in its. The text itself. So I don't know what you're supposed to do with that, but, like, the Meryl Streep performance, the examination of that whole world, which can feel very, like, stayed in costume drama y. And something that you just. That you read when you were seven.
- [57:38]
A
Yeah. It's just similarly a very warm and relatable adaptation of that story and a movie.
- [57:43]
C
It feels very propulsive and very modern, even though it is set during the Civil War.
- [57:48]
A
There is a. I think that would have been maybe a too clever by half pick, but a very defensible pick. Lady Bird is a more iconic movie that she's made in part because there have been so many adaptations of Little Women over the years. But I really liked Little Women a lot that year.
- [58:00]
C
I did too.
- [58:00]
A
And it didn't get lost because it was a big hit and it got nominated for awards. But it doesn't. It's not one of those.
- [58:06]
C
Although she did not get nominated for director.
- [58:08]
A
For director. Yeah. But that was such a competitive year. And it does get. It gets mentioned like fourth or fifth when you talk about 2019, not first or second. And that might be contributing to the.
- [58:18]
C
I mean, 2019 was also it's parasite. Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. What else am I forgetting?
- [58:26]
A
Knives Out, Ford versus Ferrari, Uncut Gems, Marriage Story. There's a great number of movies that were nominated. Jojo Rabbit Faves. So, yeah, this next week, number four, Jojo Rabbit, Taika. Not represented on this list. I think we made the right choice, but this was a pretty agonizing one, as is the one that we did for next week's episode.
- [58:51]
C
It's true.
- [58:51]
A
That was also a little bit of a challenge and I feel we landed in the right place. But it was. To me, that's part of what's making this exercise interesting as opposed to iterative of every other list that's come around is that we are forcing ourself to say, okay, which one is it that really rises to this level?
- [59:06]
C
And I do think Lady Bird does the work of representing all the other movies that we couldn't include from that group of directors cohort. And I think that's why you do it.
- [59:18]
A
I'm not sure that Damien Chazelle or Josh Safdie would agree, but you know, I hear what you're saying.
- [59:23]
C
They're doing okay.
- [59:24]
A
Yeah, they're doing great. Recommended, if you like.
- [59:27]
C
Yeah.
- [59:28]
A
What do you got?
- [59:28]
C
Easy A and Booksmart. You know, plucky women taking on high school.
- [59:33]
A
One came before, one came after.
- [59:35]
C
Sure. And one stars Beanie Feldstein also.
- [59:37]
A
That's right.
- [59:38]
C
Pretty in Pink. Which is the John Hughes with the class or one of the John Hughes with the class stuff? The 400 blows, which Greta cited a lot during the press tour for this film.
- [59:50]
A
I think it very smartly said, there are a lot of films about young boys at these films.
- [59:55]
C
Exactly. Brooklyn, Saoirse, Ronan, trying to. Going somewhere new and trying to figure out the world.
- [60:02]
A
Sounds like they met during the press tour when she had done the films with Noah that year. Or no, maybe she had done. Was it Maggie's Plan?
- [60:12]
C
Yes. I think it was 2015.
- [60:14]
A
Yeah. She had done Maggie's Plan and Saoirse had done Brooklyn. Brooklyn. Beautiful. Beautiful plan.
- [60:17]
C
Yeah. And, like, also a movie told with a lot of, like, empathy and warmth for the places. And then Rushmore.
- [60:26]
A
Yeah.
- [60:27]
C
Yeah.
- [60:27]
A
That's my lady bird.
- [60:28]
C
I know.
- [60:31]
A
Okay, well, we've already recorded our number four episode. I Feel good about it. No one has spilled the beans.
- [60:37]
C
I'm proud of everybody.
- [60:38]
A
Can you believe it?
- [60:39]
C
Yeah.
- [60:39]
A
You're like. You're really. Your stern energy at our live performance, I think, really conveyed the seriousness of this situation.
- [60:44]
C
What I said to everyone is that if Beyonce can do it, we can do it. Okay. And no one had to sign an NDA, unlike Beyonce, so. But I believe in everyone else.
- [60:55]
A
I'm just really proud of those people and I'm really impressed with them and I want to thank them.
- [60:59]
C
We also did get into the specifics of how they could backdate their letterbox if they needed to.
- [61:03]
A
So I thought that's something I do.
- [61:05]
C
I thought that that was instructional.
- [61:06]
A
Yeah. I think it was aspirational. Cause I said, be like me.
- [61:10]
C
Yeah. And that's what everybody showing up to the Egyptian on a Saturday night is trying to do.
- [61:16]
A
Are you saying they're not doing that? Thank you to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Number four will be next week. So this week we do have one more episode, and that episode's going to be about the Running man and now youw See Me, now youw Don't. Now you've seen both of these films.
- [61:29]
C
I have.
- [61:30]
A
I have as well.
- [61:30]
C
Okay.
- [61:31]
A
I have a great many thoughts, so. Okay. Well, we'll talk about it very soon. We'll see you then.