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- [00:11]
A
I'm Sean Fennessy.
- [00:12]
B
I'm Amanda Dobbins.
- [00:13]
A
And this is 25 for 25, a big picture special conversation show about Mad Max Fury Road. Witness me today we ride into Valhalla because we have selected Mad max as number nine. This of course is the 2015 action epic masterpiece written and directed by George Miller, co written by Brendan McCarthy and Nicolethoris. Starring Tom Hardy, Charlize Theron, Nicholas Hoult, Hugh Kearsberne, Rosie Huntington, Whiteley, Riley Keough, Zoe Kravitz and many more. Let's get right into this movie. Why did we choose Mad Max Fury Road?
- [00:48]
B
This is the action achievement of the century so far, maybe of movies as they have been filmed. You know, there's a very famous Steven Soderbergh quote about this movie that is, I don't understand how they're not still shooting that film and I don't understand how hundreds of people aren't dead. But what this movie accomplishes in terms of doing the things that you see on screen and getting them on film and then editing them together and putting them in a movie is like unprecedented.
- [01:30]
A
This episode is presented by LinkedIn ads.
- [01:33]
B
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- [01:39]
A
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- [01:57]
B
Try it out. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply.
- [02:10]
A
It is unprecedented. This is the fourth Mad Max movie. This film was conceived some 35 years before its production. George Miller, famously a medical doctor before becoming a filmmaker, has had one of the most extraordinary careers in movie history. Mad Max is really at the root and heart of his career and he had been away from this story for a very long time. Conceived it in 78, this film. He made three Mad Max films in roughly a 10 year period in Australia. Made a star out of Mel Gibson, I think in some ways put Australia along with a handful of other filmmakers, including maybe Peter Weir, a handful of others who came to America to start making films on the map and Beyond. Thunderdome from 1987 was the last time we had seen a Mad Max movie. And then 28 years go by and there had been rumors of this movie for some time. If you were following it, and I like the Mad Max movies, I wouldn't say that the Road Warrior is an all time classic for me, but I was looking forward to this. And I vividly remember seeing this movie in movie theaters. I was not covering movies full time professionally. I went on the Friday. It released in the afternoon at the Vista Theater here in Los Angeles.
- [03:35]
B
Oh, fun.
- [03:37]
A
I went by myself. I don't even really know why I went by myself, but I remember being there by myself. And I thought I was a little bit late, but there were some trailers and I walked in. I'd rarely eat popcorn at the movies, and I got popcorn and I got a giant soda. And within the first 12 seconds, I felt like I had gotten a syringe full of adrenaline in my neck. This is one of the most vivid moviegoing experiences I have ever had in my life. And it's weird because everybody knows George Miller's a genius, right? He's roundly celebrated Mad Max iconic film franchise. I guess there were some questions because there was some conversation about the challenges of that production that the Soderberg quote alludes to. There's an incredible Kyle Buchanan book about the making of this movie. Blood, Sweat and Chrome. You can read all the details about how difficult it was to accomplish this. And I'm sure I knew some of that stuff. But this felt like a new form of movie. Like, I don't remember a movie feeling quite like this. And I think we use that canard about talking about, like, oh, the first time I saw Pulp Fiction, I didn't know you could do storytelling this way. This is actually like how the film felt to my body. Felt different. It felt so alive and tense and in your face. Not a 3D movie, but it felt like it was happening. And so when I look back at the movie and I think about it, I think we should be trying to capture that in this list. You know, like some. Some things take time to develop cults or fandoms. This was one that, the moment I saw it, I was knocked out.
- [05:10]
B
Yeah, I, I had a different relationship to it and I'm trying to. I, I don't know if I've seen this movie in theaters, which is something I'm. I'm embarrassed to say, but is just kind of how it shook out because, like, I guess I had seen a Mad Max film, but I don't know, you know, I wasn't like, rare and like, oh, yes. And now we'll find out, you know, what's happening in the desert, like in general. Desert's like, eh, I can take it, I can leave it. And this, maybe I did see it in theaters because it had such an awards season tale and it was a.
- [05:46]
A
Pretty sizable hit as well.
- [05:47]
B
Yeah. But I wasn't there on the Friday being like, yeah, I gotta connect with this. Like, this is the latest installment and a very exciting thing. And I think when I finally did see it, I mean, I felt viscerally all of the things that you felt. It is loud, it is propulsive, it is disorienting, it is like broad and vibrant. I felt and still feel kind of like I'm watching like maybe not a new art form, but like fine art essentially. And there's a little bit of like almost a silent film quality to it, which is funny to say about a movie that is as loud and uses sound and specifically an electric guitar as beautifully as this does. But I was like, oh, I see, like action is an entirely different type of art form to you than making a movie. And you're doing something that's almost like sculpting in real time here. And. And it is like amazing and breathtaking and like a little perplexing to watch at times. The way that like really good art kind of grabs you and is like, wait, what am I looking at here? And how are you doing this? And you've. And. And is this really happening? So I continue to be fascinated by. By this movie in particular and Furiosa to like, like a lesser extent. But when that movie's really working, it's because what he's doing with set pieces is like. It is like museum quality.
- [07:24]
A
Last night I had a little experiment. I rewatched the movie. I've seen this movie many times. I feel very comfortable with remembering sequences and lines and action. But I watched it in the Black and Chrome edition, which is the black and white version of the film which I know our producer Jack saw in theaters earlier this year and has become a little bit of a cult object unto itself. And I thought I had seen it in that way and I had not. And obviously it has been drained of that high contrast color that's in the movie. And the post work in this movie is kind of amazing. So yes, he does get a lot of stuff practically on screen that is amazing. Right. There's a level of choreography in the action and a level of conception in the filmmaking that is remarkable. It's a huge part of it.
- [08:15]
B
Right. And it's just like the scale. Right. There are just hundreds of. Of rigs.
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A
Vehicles. Yeah.
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B
They are. They are flipping and they exploding.
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A
Explosions.
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B
Yeah. Like all of that stuff is happening.
- [08:27]
A
But it is also a major act of post production artistry that there is an enormous amount of CGI in this film, that there is an incredible score from Junkie XL in this movie. A lot of things that are not necessarily a part of the actual production of the movie. And we praise that part of it because it just looks like it was so hard to do. Right, right. And I'm fond of praising that for you.
- [08:51]
B
Right. And we also praise it because we are at this point, and probably even in 2015, we're accustomed to it not happening in real life anymore. Yeah.
- [09:03]
A
We become comfortable with cgi.
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B
Yeah. And we almost expect like, okay, they're gonna do this big extravaganza, except it will all.
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A
None of it'll be real. It's gonna be real. Yes.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And this is a case where, you know, the things that would be real would be a person wearing a green suit that would be animated around them. And there are aspects of this movie that have some of those things. There is a plenty of cgi. There's a insane sandstorm sequence in the movie that is obviously hugely benefits from computer generated imagery. It's just that in this film, it looks amazing. Like, that work is at such a high level because there's so much time and painstaking detail that goes into it. I think you and I fall into the trap of very easily being like, oh, cgi. It's a purple schmear. It doesn't look like anything.
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B
Well, there's no purple in this. Like, honestly, the colors are very beautiful.
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A
Yeah. And I don't know if it is easier to work and to invent against this palette, this sort of like orange, brown, yellow in the sand. And then that allows the other colors in the film to kind of pop more discreetly. But I think it is just an absolute fusion of all the things that make to your point about silent cinema, a kind of total cinema, a pure cinema, which is something that we say and joke about, but there is actually a version of it. Like if you look at. When you're in school and you study film, you study Eisenstein and you learned about technique, you know, you study Murnau and you learn about shadow, you study Abel Gans's Napoleon and you learn about scale.
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B
Right.
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A
And there's all these movies in the first 30 years of film that show you the different strategies that you can deploy to tell a Certain kind of story. And this movie does feel like one of those huge D.W. griffith epics or, or you know, or like Napoleon where it doesn't need the sound if you just had the subtitles. It is a movie about forward momentum, this like continuous, endless, deathless strain of race. And that's really it. There are other ideas. There are a lot of themes that gird the movie.
- [11:10]
B
But even there dialogue is not used to express them. Or it is very sparingly and you could cut the dialogue and still understand what exactly is going on between every character. And obviously there's that shot of Charlize Theron once she's learned that the green place is no more and you know, and like goes out on the. Yeah, and it's like. I mean it's a ready made movie poster, but like you don't need to hear the scream to understand what's going on there. She and Tom Hardy communicate pretty much through looking at each other. There was a lot more acting done like of someone's eyes behind a wheel, real or you know, green suited than there is of two people standing like in some room like having a conversation.
- [11:59]
A
And that's the other way that it is like silent cinema. It's a. It's a movie of faces. It's a movie. It's expressionistic in the way that it's shot. It's also expressionistic on their faces. You know, like Tom Hardy has maybe 30 lines of dialogue in this movie, Charlize Theron maybe 40. It's very sparse in terms of how much information is being communicated. And yet you're kind of getting everything that you need. I think that there is something about it too that is. It's like the problem that it is reflecting which is this kind of ecological crisis and who controls natural resources, controls the world, just doesn't necessitate a lot of explanation. It's not a particularly deep movie about those ideas.
- [12:42]
B
But the explanation is there in the visuals, in the production design and in the setting and in those heightened colors. But also the completely sparse scale of what you're seeing. So again it's what you see doing the work.
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A
It's interesting too cause the amount of information that you're. The visual information that you're getting is high, is really high. And part of it is because you've got this kind of sped up frame rate style where it feels like the movie is happening in a kind of hyper reality, which I think we've heard a lot about frame rates. Peter Jackson, during the Hobbit films was Trying to change the frames per second. Ang Lee did this. I believe, in Gemini Man.
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B
Oh, yeah.
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A
There were a handful of examples of this that they were sort of purposefully shooting in a style that would communicate the information visually. What were they doing? Usually they were eating.
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B
Right. But what did the. Was it just so they could. What did the changed enhanced frame rate do?
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A
I think the idea was that it would immerse you more deeply in the world, but the world would feel hyper real in the same way that this does. The difference is that, at least in the Hobbit movies, they're not pure action.
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B
No.
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A
You know, there's a lot of sitting around talking about being a Hobbit and Hobbiton and all that. They're very normal movies that men go see together and enjoy.
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B
What kind of foods do they eat?
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A
We'll save it for when we get to the Hobbit on this countdown, which is number six, Gemini Man. It actually kind of made sense what he was going for, because it was a movie also about doubles. And remember, there's, like, the motorcycle sequence.
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B
I do remember that. Well, I mean, I was trying to remember what was happening in Gemini Man. And it was like something about a parking garage and the motorcycle and he jumps.
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A
You nailed it. Yeah, that's correct. And then he jumps.
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B
At some point, I believe they're. You know, they filmed, I think, a lot in Atlanta as people do, so I think at some point they go to the Georgia coast. And I was like, hey, I recognize that.
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A
So, you know, you summed up Gemini Man. We don't need to do our episode about that film either. Those were interesting, like, attempts at changing the way that movies looked.
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B
Right.
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A
You know, and this is something that happens, obviously, every 20, 30 years, there's a new iteration on how a movie looks. First you got black and white and silent, Then you got sound, Then you got color. Then you got CinemaScope, then you've got VistaVision, then you've got 3D, then you've got, in theater, physical experiences like William Castle. Movies. Movies are kind of constantly evolving. This is one where he used a very straightforward methodology to just change how it felt watching a movie. And when you combine that with that artistry and craftsmanship that you were talking about, it creates something that is sui generis. Like, there's not really a movie that feels like this movie. We could talk about Furiosa and kind of the legacy of Furiosa. Very, very scandalous episode of our show where we said furiosa. Pretty good. Not my favorite movie of all Time.
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B
And was the scandal that that was.
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A
People were like, how dare you? Because there's like a cult of Furiosa fandom, and then there's people who are not in that cult. And you know what? I think some of it is correlated to time of life. Because if you saw Furiosa on the big screen, but maybe you were too young to see Fury Road on the big screen and you look at the, you know, the sort of war rig set piece with the bombs in Furiosa, you might be like, that's one of the best things I've ever seen in a movie.
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B
Right.
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A
That is some of the most thrilling. And the difference is, and this is, I think, useful in talking about these two movies. Furiosa is an action epic, not just in scope, but in terms of duration. It's a film that takes place over a long period of time.
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B
Right.
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A
This is a movie that takes place in a day, and it is micro. It's a mini epic. It's just a big chase movie. And there's also not a lot of examples of that at this scale, too. That's something that is, like, shrunk down, but also so big that I struggle to find comps. You know what I mean?
- [16:42]
B
Yes. Yeah. There is a simplicity to what is the, like, most ornate, difficult film, like, ever, you know, put on film that is. That really works in its favor and also, like, allows you to focus on exactly what it is doing in Furiosa. You know, Chris Hemsworth is walking away with the half the movie. There are competing narratives. There's. You know, as with any origin story, there's. It's on a couple different tracks. And this is on one very specific track that honestly, like, they just, like, drive one way and then they just drive back the same way. Quite literally.
- [17:24]
A
Yep.
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B
And so you are. It's more immersive. You're just kind of. You are literally along for the ride. Sorry, I walked into it, but it was right there.
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A
No, it's true. I mean, the other thing, too, is that Miller's sensibility, the world that he has created in the previous Mad Max films, it's kind of a weird, little gross, kind of visceral, odd collection of characters with weird names and funny voices. And his comic timing is fairly unusual. And so all the interactions between Immortan Joe and his sons and his sort of generals and his army are all very odd. You know, there is something that feels displaced from reality in the storytelling for the most part. Imperator Furiosa is, I guess, a grounded character. You know, her dialogue is not like extravagant. She doesn't speechify, but she does have only one arm and has a claw for a hand and is in constant state of battle.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And everyone surrounding her, especially, you know, all the war boys are. They're like an ancient tribe, but they're also slaves. They feel like they're part of the history of like, you know, zombie movies from the 50s. But then they also feel like they're, you know, cultists from the future. It's like a very strange collection.
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B
Right.
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A
Of created people.
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B
But also we don't have to know anything about their lore, you know, like it's not. And if you do, it's there on the surface. It's in the costuming and the makeup and the production design.
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A
You get the one speech from Immortan Joe at the beginning of the movie that kind of clarifies, like, here's what's going on in this world right now. Here's what this apocalypse is. And then that's it.
- [19:18]
B
You get signposts. And I'm sure books have been written about this world and the lore of.
- [19:24]
A
It all, but I published seven.
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B
Right. But those are people projecting onto the text. You know, you don't have to have any of that. It is the. They are symbols. They are things to be moved around. And in service of this, like, visual play that you're watching.
- [19:47]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. There's nothing better than having friends who support you in your passions.
- [19:53]
B
It's so true. I'm so grateful to have Sean support me as I explore my interest in four case.
- [20:03]
A
Like those friends, State Farm is there to help you along the way. With so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have support in finding what fits for you.
- [20:10]
B
Go online@statefarm.com or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
- [20:19]
A
When I was doing the series of conversations with Bill Hader about Barry on the PrestigeTV podcast, there was one episode that we were discussing where Barry was overlooking like a base camp of some kind. And he asked me, do you know what I was ripping off there? I said, I don't. He said, that's from the Road Warrior. And then we did like a side by side and it was, you know, shot for shot take. And you know, Bill is a huge cinephile and he did that a lot in Barry. He picked and chose a lot of different kind of visual inspirations. And Miller is a very inspirational figure. He makes A lot of images that filmmakers, especially action filmmakers, but not just action filmmakers, tend to pull from. This is a movie where it would be hard to do that because of the way that the film was made. You know, you could recapture that scene where, you know, she falls to her knees, or you could pay homage to the. Absolutely, like, to me, breathtaking final moments of the movie.
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B
Yeah, of course.
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A
Which is, like one of my favorite endings in movie history, just visually. But there's. There's so much that is difficult to accomplish in this movie. You know, the polecats swinging and the war boys jumping on.
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B
And also, so much of it is movement and it is. You know, and it's cutting so fast, which is the. You know, it's a feature, not a bug. But so it's meant to communicate that everyone is just moving forward as fast as they can. And so that, like, what you're talking about, like a shot, is when we think about it in our minds, it's a stationary image. You know, when we want to play to something's visuals, we often say it's very painterly, you know, which is still. And there is something like the kineticism of these images are part of what makes them the images that they are. So you can't recreate it unless you get everyone to move in that exact same way and then cut it in that exact same way.
- [22:17]
A
It's a great point. Charlize is an interesting component in this movie. She is kind of used like a. Like a living painting in some ways. You know, she has some imposing physique. She's very strong. She's very striking, as you said. She doesn't say a lot at this point in her career, though. She is representative of something. Right. She's like one of, if not the most powerful woman in movies.
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B
Right. Yeah.
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A
And the timing for this makes a lot of sense. She's already won an Academy Award at this point for her work in Monster. She's used that to kind of elevate out of the girl in movies to being the center of the film. And she goes on this stretch of films that are sort of like, some of which are unglamorous. You know, she's in north country and in the Valley of Ella. She does do some Hollywood movies, like Hancock, where she plays a strong figure.
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B
He's an angel in that.
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A
No, he's a superhero.
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B
Oh.
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A
And she's also a superhero.
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B
Oh, okay.
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A
Just spoilers for the, you know, 2008 film Hancock.
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B
They're angels, sort of.
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A
Yes.
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B
Okay.
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A
Yes.
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B
I was just making sure we're gonna get to that.
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A
I'm bringing that up for a reason.
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B
I know, I know, but I, you know, I was conflating my. And, like, what kind of superpowers have been assigned to Charlize?
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A
Yeah. I mean, in the run up to this movie, though, she's in kind of a weird stretch. She makes Young Adult, a movie I really like. Jason Raymond's Young Adult. Snow White and the Huntsman, Prometheus. A Million Ways to Die in the west and Dark Places are the films that immediately precede this.
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B
Okay.
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A
Prometheus is great. She's got a modest sized role in that movie. This movie hits, makes $380 million at the box office. It's tremendously successful. And then you're like, okay, here we go. This is gonna be one of the great film careers of all time. And since then, it's been kind of weird and she's taken some risks that I really admire.
- [24:10]
B
I mean, Atomic Blonde is after this, right?
- [24:12]
A
Atomic Blonde, which is a very fun.
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B
Movie, but it's also her leaning into. Now I'm just gonna really kick people.
- [24:18]
A
Yeah, I'm. This obviously set it up. This set up the trajectory for her as a true action heroine. But she also makes the Old Guard and she starts appearing in the Fast and the Furious films as Cipher, one of the key villains.
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B
She makes Tully after this.
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A
She does make Tully. Another movie that I think is.
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B
It's amazing until the end, right?
- [24:38]
A
I'm more okay with the ending, but I didn't realize mothers are not fond of the ending of really, really not okay. Again, I think that she and Jason Reitman are very good together. I think he gets something good out of her as a performer. Longshot, we loved.
- [24:53]
B
Yeah. No one else did, though.
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A
Bombshell's okay.
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B
Yeah.
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A
That'S pretty much it. Old Guard 2 Fast X. She's in one cameo in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and will never be seen again in a Marvel film. Probably.
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B
Okay.
- [25:11]
A
She is gonna be in the Odyssey.
- [25:13]
B
Ah, yes.
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A
As Cersei.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah.
- [25:15]
A
And I think it's.
- [25:17]
B
That's. That's good. It makes sense.
- [25:19]
A
It is good casting. I think this is an interesting 10 year period for her where after this movie you could say, I don't know that there's ever been a woman at the movies who can do what she does.
- [25:32]
B
Right.
- [25:32]
A
You know, Angelina Jolie has kind of like, has tipped in this direction at times, but she's really stepped back. She's pulled back from this stuff heavily. Give or take the eternals. Like, she doesn't really make movies like. And Charlize has kind of firmly stayed in this with the occasional Reitman movie or long shot.
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B
Right.
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A
And so I bring all this up and I'm saying all this to say like, is this the iconic Charlize Theron movie?
- [25:58]
B
I think so. What else would you put in the.
- [26:01]
A
Well, she won an Academy Award for Monster.
- [26:03]
B
Yeah. But we all know that that's just. You make yourself ugly in order to win an Oscar.
- [26:09]
A
Well, she.
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B
The Italian Job. Like what else is in the running.
- [26:13]
A
Yeah, she's very good in some, you know, she's good in the yards. And she's trying her best in the Devil's Advocate with a woefully written part. And she is iconic in two days in the valley and 14 year old me appreciated her work. But yeah, I mean, I think this is pretty far and away her signature performance, her signature character, her signature work. Anya, Taylor, Joy, that's another thing about that movie, I think had a lot to live up to. I thought she's good in Furiosa, but this is a. She carved this character. And conversely, Tom Hardy has the same job Tom Hardy has to represent what Mel Gibson did.
- [26:50]
B
Right.
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A
Which as Van would say, why Mel? Why?
- [26:56]
B
Yeah, why?
- [26:57]
A
Because Mel Gibson, one of the great movie actors of the 1990s, 1980s, 2000s even, and his Max is different from Hardy's Max. Hardy's Max is a bit strange. You can tell that there was a lot of clashing on this production. You can see clearly that maybe Hardy and Shirley's didn't get along so great.
- [27:17]
B
Right. That's the rumor. I mean, they are all used as interchangeable pieces of the tableau. And I would imagine if you're an actor, you're not thrilled about that.
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A
I agree. I think that.
- [27:29]
B
So that's. That's hard. And Tom Hardy, as I know, has opinions about things. So maybe he resisted it.
- [27:36]
A
He loves a weird voice.
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B
He does.
- [27:38]
A
His voice is very dubbed in this film, which I do find a bit distracting.
- [27:41]
B
I do as well. I mean, also knowing everything we know now about his voices.
- [27:45]
A
Yes. If he would just do the Bane voice in this film, I would be okay with that.
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B
He does have the mask on. A thing I like about. If this is Mel Gibson, then Mel Gibson has taken up a lot more space in this movie. And I think that the receding quality of Max and of Tom Hardy's performance, whether purposeful or cut together. Cause that's what George Miller wanted. Adds to that the singular nature of the movie. This is a movie about Furiosa.
- [28:17]
A
Yeah.
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B
And this is a movie about. And then. And the women who are following her. But this is a movie about the women and so.
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A
And female power and femininity.
- [28:28]
B
So if Mel Gibson is there melling it up, you know, you have that imbalance a little bit the way that you did with Chris Hemsworth and Furiosa.
- [28:39]
A
You're right. And it is an interesting choice for him to sort of know. And we don't know specifically, like, how they landed in that place, but it does feel like that. I don't know if restraint is the right word, but there's a quieter aspect. Mel Gibson is a very center of the frame kind of performer.
- [28:55]
B
Right.
- [28:56]
A
I also just wanted to mention Nicholas Hoult, who has, by contrast, gone on to have a wonderful 10 years and one of the greatest cucks in the history of movies. This is kind of cuck ground zero, I would say. 100% nux, who is just a live wire who brings this movie to life, really, in the kind of rising action of the first half. And I gotta give a guy this handsome credit for going this crazy. Yeah. Being this weird, this strange, this gross.
- [29:25]
B
He does it again and again.
- [29:27]
A
He does.
- [29:28]
B
And then he just absolutely, you know, kills the press tour. Catwalk.
- [29:33]
A
Yes. He's very tall, as you know.
- [29:34]
B
Well, yeah. But, you know, he's leaning into it.
- [29:37]
A
He is leaning into it. The movie's legacy.
- [29:40]
B
Yeah.
- [29:41]
A
Now, 10 Oscar nominations, right? Six wins. No. Above the Line wins.
- [29:49]
B
Yeah.
- [29:50]
A
Let's go back to 2015.
- [29:51]
B
Okay.
- [29:53]
A
2015 is the year of the Revenant and the year of Spotlight in the fall.
- [29:58]
B
Did you intentionally do a little Boston just there when you're like, spotlight?
- [30:02]
A
I didn't. I couldn't even attempt a Boston accent. That was entirely unintentional. Spotlight wins Best Picture.
- [30:09]
B
Yeah.
- [30:10]
A
Inaritu wins best director for the Revenant.
- [30:14]
B
That's their choice.
- [30:14]
A
Lubezki wins cinematography, Chibo. But then the film wins costume design, editing, makeup, production design, sound editing, sound mixing, and lost visual effects to Ex Machina. An interesting choice. Those six wins are sort of like all the stuff you need to make a movie. You did a great job. Except not Best Picture.
- [30:35]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [30:37]
A
I think some of it is because the film is not an acting showcase. And Spotlight is the ultimate acting showcase, and the Revenant is the ultimate. One guy turns his life over to a movie and that masculine thing that Leo did in that movie. And 2015 is a funky year. It's always going to be a funky year.
- [30:56]
B
There was a night. There was a Time that night, watching the Oscars, when all of the below the line categories are going to Mad Max Fury Road, where you're like, oh, is this turning? Like, is this happening? Do we think this is happening? And then the actors get to vote again and so it doesn't happen.
- [31:13]
A
And I do think that that's what happened. I do think that the actors being the largest block of voters, this is a perfectly fine year. The big short bridge of Spies, Brooklyn. I was recently talking with somebody about this. The other movie that I think operates in a similar fashion as the movie was nominated is the Martian. The Martian and Mad Max were two huge crowd pleasing, kind of sci fi adventure movies that don't usually win Academy Awards, but that when you look back on the year, you're like, you know, what I liked is the Martian.
- [31:43]
B
Yeah, but like, one has Matt Damon just like charming some potatoes into existence and the other has people just like staring at each other. You know, this is.
- [31:53]
A
I mean, the Martian didn't win either.
- [31:55]
B
That's true. This movie is an incredible artistic achievement and can also be off putting if you're not there wanting to sit and get your face rocked off by a bunch of cars driving around in the desert. It is so laser focused on what it is that I can imagine people, you know, I do think sometimes, you know, I sit down and watch it and I'm like, okay, well, if I'm looking for some sort of human connection, I'm not really. I'm getting tiny glimpses of it from Nicholas Hoult. Like, I'm getting Charlize.
- [32:33]
A
His character has an arc. His character has a proper arc. He becomes more human.
- [32:38]
B
You know, Mad Max has like all of the flashbacks of his kids being like, you know, and he has an arc too, of saying his name, but it is just a lot of going for it, gunning. And so you can see how voters who are more interested in potatoes, like, maybe didn't connect.
- [33:02]
A
It might have been mystified by, like the doof warrior.
- [33:04]
B
Yeah.
- [33:05]
A
You know, that there are certain things in the movie that are just so strange and outsized and absurdist that, you know. Another filmmaker who this movie reminds me of a little bit is Terry Gilliam too. Where Terry Gilliam's movies feel like they're just off kilter. You know, the way that the dialogue is being read, the way that the film looks and feels is just a little bit off. And those movies often become hugely celebrated over time.
- [33:30]
B
Totally.
- [33:31]
A
The difference with this one is that it is a big action movie that made almost $400 million.
- [33:35]
B
Right. Because in addition to it being like this Titanic achievement of craft and a singular commitment to an artistic vision, it also does feature a bunch of cars going really fast and a dude rocking out on a guitar and then very gnarly weapons being jabbed in people and like random angles. In the same way that you can watch it purely as like a silent film masterpiece, you can also just watch it like.
- [34:01]
A
Yeah.
- [34:02]
B
You know, for two hours straight. So, you know, it's sort of amazing because I think the way George Miller made it is really, really only according to what's in his brain and not letting any sort of crowd pleasing audience, whatever. And it doesn't have any of the hallmarks of like a, you know, a pop studio blockbuster masterpiece, I guess, except for violence and things going really fast. But it turns out that's all you need.
- [34:35]
A
If done well.
- [34:36]
B
If done well.
- [34:37]
A
If done well. Yeah, I think if those set pieces, if it gives you that, you've gotta see this feeling, which this movie does. Miller, we can talk briefly about him in terms of his legacy too. So the very early stages of his career. The first three features he makes are Mad Max movies. And then he goes on this interesting journey through Hollywood. He makes the Witches of Eastwick and Lorenzo's Oil, two somewhat more conventional kinds of movies. You know, a literary adaptation with some fantasy elements and then just a pure drama in Lorenzo's Oil. And then he produces and writes Babe, but doesn't direct it, which becomes a phenomenon Oscar nominated film. And then he chooses to direct Babe Pig in the City Classic. Then he directs Happy Feet and Happy Feet Two. So from 1995 through 2015, he's made four children's movies and that's it.
- [35:29]
B
Right, and four animated movies.
- [35:32]
A
So yeah, Babe is certainly a kind of animation.
- [35:35]
B
Right, Exactly. But so, you know, to then go into the mindset of these like very practical effects.
- [35:41]
A
But even you can see him learning, though.
- [35:43]
B
He's learning, he's learning and he is also. He's in the real world, but is still thinking it in his head as if it's animation, you know. And so he's like, oh, we'll just make it do like this. Except that involves 45 stuntmen, you know, just going absolutely bananas. You should read Kyle Buchanan's book just for all of the quotes from the stuntmen who are awesome and who love George Miller. Like, they, they are so dedicated and every single. They go through this stunt, they're just like, well, I just thought it would be pretty cool to try it, you.
- [36:13]
A
Know, it's funny you bring that up because a movie that I wanted to reference as what this movie is standing in for is John Wick. Yeah, John Wick. None of the John Wick films have made our list here as listeners know. I worship the John Wick movies. I think they're wonderful. And I just watched on the plane home from New York Wick is Pain, which is a two hour documentary about the making of the John Wick franchise. One of the better making of documentaries I've ever seen. These are mostly like fluffy studio supported pieces, but this is about in part the relationships between the two filmmakers who started the John Wick movies. Chad Stahelski and David Leitch, who made Atomic Blonde. And they directed the first film together. And they were stuntmen and then they were stunt designers and then they were stunt coordinators and they were also ultimately second unit directors before taking on John Wick. And that spirit that you're talking about from the stuntmen who turn themselves over to George Miller exists in those films. And when you look at the best action films of the century, most of them have that spirit. Have that spirit of people doing things that seem impossible. The previous action film that we talked about on this list was Mission Impossible, Fallout, Another franchise that is about the physical commitment and the ingenious design that marries to that are both become married to make amazing action films. This film is also beyond just action. It does have that kind of mythic, poetic storytelling aspect to it which the Mission Impossible movies don't have that.
- [37:39]
B
Yeah. And many of the other action films that don't. Didn't make our list. Do not have. Or they're about Batman is to save Gotham or modern mythology or even John Wick is so mythological that I don't really know what's going on.
- [37:55]
A
And that was retrofitted. The first film, retro was just not a dog. And then the second film, they're basically like how do we build this world out so that we can make five movies? Which they did end up doing and pretty successfully, I would say. But that's hard to do and hard to do well. This movie has the grace of three previous installments in the film to lean on. You know, the other two films he's made since Fury Road, 3000 Years of Longing, which I did an episode with Joanna about when you were on leave. A film I found utterly perplexing, but that is deeply interested in that mythological storytelling that we're talking about. This idea of thousands of years of history being compressed and fractured and retold. And he's really into that. This film ends with a quote from the History man about the passage of time and the way that. Who controls power in the passage of time. And then Furiosa is his last film and I hope he makes another film. He's 80 years old. Yeah, he is. There's not. There's no careers like him. There's no one who's ever done anything quite like him. There are a lot of filmmakers, you could say, oh, he's a contemporary of Spielberg. Right. He's a contemporary of Coppola. You know, these kind of like grand visionaries. But the way that he makes movies is just so outside of the traditional expectations and systems.
- [39:12]
B
Yeah.
- [39:13]
A
That he's a one of one.
- [39:14]
B
That's. I mean, that to me, I think he is an artiste with a capital A and an E at the end.
- [39:20]
A
Are there any other movies that you feel like we've placed this in for?
- [39:25]
B
I mean, you made a list here of all the great action movies. John Wick, you mentioned Edge of Tomorrow, the Bonds, Casino Royale from youm, Skyfall. For me, the Bournes, Black Panther, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Anything. Michael B for you. Rrr. And then Top Gun, Maverick and the Fast and Furious movies. Basically anything in the, like, moving fast, vehicle, Vehicle, Go category. Which this. This does achieve, but does other things as well.
- [39:57]
A
Recommended, if you like. Obviously, any Mad Max movie applies. I think. I think the warriors is a good one in terms of the warring tribes. Apocalypse Now.
- [40:10]
B
Sure. Which some of the stunt guys in the. In Cal Buchanan's book do evoke, I.
- [40:16]
A
Think, in two ways probably too. In the. The struggle of the production.
- [40:20]
B
Right.
- [40:21]
A
But also in the attempt to make something that lasts forever.
- [40:24]
B
Yeah.
- [40:24]
A
Which I really appreciate. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but you gotta keep trying Dune. You know, if you really like Dune or Dune Part two. Either one.
- [40:33]
B
Oh, I thought you meant OG Dune.
- [40:35]
A
Well, it's a good question because Lynch's Dune is probably tonally closer to this movie in terms of the oddball sense of humor. But the scale and action in the Villeneuve movie is very similar to this one, The Desert. I think part of the reason why. I mean, there's no Denis Villeneuve film on our list.
- [40:57]
B
Spoiler. Yeah.
- [40:58]
A
That was a hard decision.
- [41:00]
B
Was it really? I mean, we had a lot of hard decisions, but I don't know.
- [41:03]
A
Well, we talked about Arrival.
- [41:05]
B
We did. Which I love.
- [41:07]
A
And Sicario. And I think we had a hard time coming. We would have had a hard time coming to the middle ground. What would have been our agreement? It's a little hard to say with Dune because we haven't seen the third film. I'm kind of curious what the long term legacy of that franchise is going to be because I have just a huge affection for both of them. I think they're both. I think they might be his best movies. They're just not as fun as Fury Road. There is something exuberant about Fury Road that those movies never. Villeneuve is quite self serious.
- [41:41]
B
Yeah. And there's also just. They feel. I mean, they are ensemble pieces, but they feel big. And Villeneuve is like, you know, opening and trying to embrace as much of the world as possible. And George Miller is just like, my guys are on a road.
- [42:01]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's shrunk down. Yeah, yeah. It's specific. It's very Australian. I mean, that's the thing is it's very much about where he's from. It's not a created world. It's our world. It's just our world in a fucked up state. A couple of other movies. Snowpiercer, I think, is also a film that this has a lot in common with slightly snowier version of this story, but kind of humanity at the end and the desperation that kicks in in terms of keeping life going forward. And Planet of the Apes. Yeah.
- [42:32]
B
Well, once again, which version?
- [42:35]
A
Definitely the original. Okay. The most recent ones are pretty cool.
- [42:40]
B
Yeah.
- [42:40]
A
No, that's what I was. But not the Tim Burton one.
- [42:43]
B
Okay.
- [42:43]
A
That one should be deleted. Death Proof. Because it's like four gals get together, beat the shit out of a guy.
- [42:49]
B
Yeah.
- [42:50]
A
It's enjoyable.
- [42:50]
B
They sure do. Yeah.
- [42:52]
A
Anything else? Number nine. Good spot for this.
- [42:56]
B
At this point, I think we're questioning ourselves and, you know, the power of numbers. Every time we do.
- [43:03]
A
Power of these numbers.
- [43:04]
B
Yeah. You know, it's just kind of like, well, we can't. They have to go in order. What are we doing here?
- [43:08]
A
Okay.
- [43:10]
B
And not that many surprises left. I doubt that this was a surprise for anyone.
- [43:13]
A
Not a lot of surprises left. Maybe one or two.
- [43:15]
B
Yeah.
- [43:16]
A
Well, that'll do it. Number eight is not going to be surprising. It's a good film. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders.
- [43:22]
C
I'd love to share a brief story before we get out of here that I learned about the film when I saw it at Vidiots.
- [43:27]
A
Please do, Jack.
- [43:27]
C
They had Mark Mangini, who is an amazing sound editor. He won the Academy Award for sound editing on Dune as well as this film. And he did a Q and A before the movie. And one of the stories he shared is that when they first test screen the film, it bombed. It had a cinema score somewhere around the 40s or the 50s. And because it was so late, they didn't have a lot of time to make adjustments for wiggle room. And Mark pleaded with George Miller, and he said, please, just let me get in there. Let me scrap it all up. Let me get in the sound design and change it. There was picture lock, color correction was.
- [44:01]
A
Locked, music was locked.
- [44:03]
C
You know, all this stuff. The only variable that changed before they did the second round of test screenings was Mark getting in there for sound design and sound effects. And he did it. He tore it all up. He went back in there and he changed it. And they did a second round of tests and had a Cinema score of 90.
- [44:17]
A
That's so strange. I don't. I can't even imagine.
- [44:20]
B
You know, I guess that is the story you would tell if you're being interviewed.
- [44:23]
A
Yeah.
- [44:23]
B
You know, that is very true, respectfully.
- [44:25]
A
And then I won an Academy Award. But I do.
- [44:28]
C
That is very true. But I also do think, you know, at the beginning of the show, you guys were like, it almost plays a silent film, which it does, but the world feels so lived in. Not just because of the visuals, but you are living with that sound design, obviously, the infamous guitar and whatnot. But I just wanted to highlight that because I thought it was really cool.
- [44:47]
A
Well, maybe I should turn the sound on next time I watch it. You know, later this week, we're going to dive into a few recent releases after the Hunt. Roofman, Tron, Ares.
- [45:00]
B
Yeah, I've seen 1 of 3.
- [45:01]
A
We're going to in full now. That's great. I hope you check out more of them.
- [45:07]
B
It's a few days from now. Okay.
- [45:12]
A
What I want to try to do in that conversation is talk about what makes the movie theatrical.
- [45:15]
B
Okay.
- [45:16]
A
Because we can. What I don't want to have is a conversation about the box office, but I think the box office performance of a couple of these movies is kind of indicative of what people think is worth going out to the movies for. So maybe we can see these three movies, which all have some. Some. Some positives and some negatives.
- [45:31]
B
Yeah.
- [45:31]
A
And discuss what those are and. And whether or not people should show up or wait, because that's really how people are making their decisions. So we will do that later this week on the show. See you then.