The Adam Sandler Hall of Fame and ‘Jay Kelly’ With Noah Baumbach!

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Picture

Episode: The Adam Sandler Hall of Fame and ‘Jay Kelly’ With Noah Baumbach!

Date: December 10, 2025
Hosts: Sean Fennessey & Amanda Dobbins
Special Guest: Noah Baumbach

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Overview

This episode features a lively and deep dive into two major topics: Noah Baumbach’s new film "J. Kelly" (starring George Clooney and Adam Sandler) and the creation of an “Adam Sandler Hall of Fame.” Sean and Amanda deliver a critical review and spirited discussion of "J. Kelly," then geek out over Adam Sandler’s career—methodically debating, ranking, and enshrining his best and most important works. The show is capped with Sean’s interview with Noah Baumbach, who shares insight into the making of "J. Kelly," his collaboration with Emily Mortimer, and reflections on his body of work and movie stardom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Industry News & Banter

• Brief update on streaming industry news—Warner Bros, Netflix, Paramount saga—with light jokes about stock prices, studio tours, and driving golf carts.
  • “Very few men are unsheathing their swords.” — Sean (01:48)
• Sean bemoans the departure of Mets closer Edwin Diaz, expressing how sports impact his mood (03:01):
  • “It’s not germane to movies, but it is germane to my psychological state.” — Sean

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2. "J. Kelly" Film Review & Analysis (05:23 – 42:02)

Film Background

• Written & directed by Noah Baumbach, co-written with Emily Mortimer.
• Cast includes George Clooney (as J. Kelly), Adam Sandler (Ron, his manager), Laura Dern, Billy Crudup, Riley Keough, etc.
• Story: Aging movie star (Kelly) faces midlife crisis, navigates regrets and family while traveling in Europe post-daughter’s college departure.

Hosts’ Reactions

• Amanda:

  • “I want to like it so much more than I do. I think it’s a real mess. I don’t understand about half of it and there’s a lot to like in it.” (06:40)
  • Appreciates the performances and the idea, but feels the film’s multiple story threads don’t cohere and that industry subplots are undercooked.
  • Notes the film wants to probe movie stardom and fatherhood, but finds the emotional beats thin.

• Sean:

  • Feels the inverse—the showbiz side works better than the family melodrama:
  • “J. Kelly, the reason why I like the second half and not the first half is that his blankness is what sells the second half...there’s no way to really change once you’ve become a big movie star.” (09:54)
  • Sees the film as an exploration of “the rare class of alien that lives among us”—movie stars whose public roles make intimacy impossible.

Memorable Scenes & Quotes

• Billy Crudup’s acting-class scene (“reading the menu”) received applause at Venice (15:26).

• Pivotal dialogue: J. Kelly is called “an empty vessel” by his estranged daughter—a metaphor for the cost of performing stardom.

• Amanda: Notes the film portrays stardom but doesn’t explore it deeply:

  • “You get the funny moments...but just as quickly it’s over and half the team disappears.” (20:35)

• The film’s tonal issues are debated—light farce vs. deeper emotional darkness.

• Scenes between Kelly and his manager Ron (Sandler)—especially their confrontation—are seen as not fully earned.

• Notable Quotes:

  • “You know what, your mileage is gonna vary. If you don’t really have empathy for somebody who’s living the extraordinarily privileged lifestyle of a J. Kelly...it’s just gonna be a hard movie for you to enjoy.” — Sean (19:42)

On Performances

• Clooney’s performance is described as “good but not great”; debate over whether scenes land emotionally or veer into mugging or whimsy (27:01–28:12).
• Sandler’s performance receives universal praise:
  • “I really found his performance heartbreaking in this movie.” — Sean (23:28)
  • The manager character is considered underwritten, nonetheless “humanizing” as commentary on stardom.

On Structure & Homages

• Parallels are drawn to 8½, Wild Strawberries, and “looking back on life” flashback movies; they appreciate Baumbach experimenting visually and structurally.
• The ending’s “cinema tribute” montage is seen as emotionally effective by Amanda, mixed by Sean, partly due to the uneven nature of the Clooney/J. Kelly character’s filmography (34:09–35:18).
  • “When I look at you, I see my whole life.” — the film’s thematic line (27:48)

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3. Adam Sandler Hall of Fame Segment (44:00 – 111:00)

Sandler’s Career Retrospective

• Detailed, decade-by-decade discussion, including SNL origins, “smart dumb stars” tradition, comedic and romantic lead status.
  • “I would suggest that his comedy in the ’90s, his comedy movies are actually underrated now.” — Sean (49:16)
• Noted for being one of the biggest box office draws (21 films over $100 million), and for his pivot to Netflix ushering in the streaming era for movies.

Hall of Fame Process Highlights

• Sean and Amanda set criteria blending box office, cultural influence, rewatchability, and affection.
• Recap and passionate debate (with color-coding) on each film—what to include, what to “yellow,” and what to “red” (exclude). Many films are discussed, from Billy Madison to Uncut Gems.

Final Adam Sandler Hall of Fame List

• Hanukkah Song (1994, non-film but signature cultural moment)

• Billy Madison (1995)

• Happy Gilmore (1996)

• The Wedding Singer (1998)

• Big Daddy (1999)

• Punch Drunk Love (2002)

• Funny People (2009)

• Grown Ups (2010)

• The Meyerowitz Stories (2017)

• Uncut Gems (2019)

  “We are who we are. J. Kelly could come through...and you would cut Meyerowitz or something else.”
  — Amanda (110:45) & Sean (110:46)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “There’s not a strong case for Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore except we like them both. Right?” — Sean (103:32)
• “It’s a great life thesis statement—which is: use your success to do things you want to do with the people that you love.” — Amanda, on Sandler’s family-focused projects (98:44)

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4. Interview: Noah Baumbach on ‘J. Kelly’ (111:14 – 146:26)

Key Topics

• Receiving “late career” tributes:
  • “I’m over 50. So now, now...we get to look back...when you see the back to back in the clip reel...” (112:03)
  • Surprised at seeing continuity in his work only through tributes and retrospectives.
• On not rewatching his own films:
  • He mostly does not revisit his films except for technical work (114:46).
• Writing with Emily Mortimer:
  • Effortless collaboration, stemming in part from White Noise (personal relationships with her and her kids) (116:46–119:11).
• Impact of COVID and Barbie on ‘J. Kelly’
  • Covid made White Noise a tough shoot and sapped his joy for filmmaking; Barbie restored some of that joy (120:52).
• Aims and Tone for ‘J. Kelly’:
  • Intended as a dreamlike journey, blurring memory and present, reflecting on stardom, identity, and regret.
• Cinematography:
  • Worked with Linus Sandgren to create a poetic, magical-world feeling (126:39).
• Movie Stardom:
  • Clooney’s character meant as a reflection on the fading “timelessness” of movie stars, and the inability for new stars to rise without movies being made for them (128:16–129:45).
• Sandler’s Performance:
  • “They are kind of shadow versions of each other, Jay and Ron...I think there is something, there’s a comic version of what Adam’s doing in the movie that you could imagine in another [movie]...and a very moving, desperate, sad, even heroic version.” (130:29–133:17)
• Mentorship, Aging, and Tributes:
  • Built the Jim Broadbent character (Peter) partly as a tribute to Peter Bogdanovich and other mentors, blending admiration and the tragedy of legacies that only receive accolades after death (134:58–137:27)
• White Noise:
  • Hopes for reappraisal as the impact of the film’s COVID subtext is processed by the culture over time.

Ending Reflections

• Baumbach’s last great watch: Small Change (Truffaut), calling it as good as 400 Blows and lauding 1970s Truffaut (144:45).

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Notable Quotes

• On Stardom:
  “There’s this rare class of alien that lives among us and they make all these sacrifices and they hurt people around them to get where they get. And then they get to the end and no one can really love them in the way that they want to be loved.” — Sean (09:54)

• On Sandler:
  “He is like one of our great vocalists. Both like singing, but in terms of what he can do with his voice to make you laugh...That is singular, like, among living people.” — Amanda (47:18)

• On Baumbach Collaborating:
  “I felt very comfortable with her [Emily Mortimer]...when I started I told her a bit about what I was working on...it was a movie that I was ready to kind of explore and do...” — Noah Baumbach (117:06–119:11)

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Selected Timestamps for Key Segments

• J. Kelly Review begins: 05:23
• Crudup cameo / “empty vessel” conversation: 15:21–16:50
• Debate on Clooney’s performance and tonal trouble: 27:01–29:34
• Analysis of the ending and Clooney’s filmography montage: 34:08–36:08
• Sandler Hall of Fame draft opens: 44:00
• Final Hall of Fame selections: 110:21–111:08
• Noah Baumbach interview begins: 111:14
• Baumbach on aging, tributes, and influence of mentors: 134:58–137:27

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Tone & Style

The discussion is breezy, smart, and tangential, full of jokes and pop-cultural asides but grounded in serious film appreciation. The hosts embrace nostalgia and personal taste while openly acknowledging generational biases. Amanda’s skepticism and Sean’s Sandler enthusiasm offer a balanced lens for listeners, while Baumbach’s interview adds a reflective, thoughtful counterpoint.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a treat for film buffs and Sandler fans alike. The hosts break down the strengths and weaknesses of "J. Kelly" with candor and humor, giving you a sense of its place in Baumbach’s filmography and in contemporary meditations on stardom. The Hall of Fame segment is a comprehensive, good-natured argument through Sandler’s wild, varied career—perfect for discovering which films have truly stood the test of time. Noah Baumbach’s appearance rounds it out with behind-the-scenes detail and philosophical musings on aging, artistry, and what lasts.

Essential for:

• Fans of Noah Baumbach, Adam Sandler, and meta-Hollywood films.
• Listeners interested in film criticism that blends close reading and fandom.
• Anyone weighing the difference between box office success and artistic legacy.

Transcript

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm Sean Fennesee.

[Amanda Davin]

I'm Amanda Davin and this is the.

[Sean Fennesee]

Big Picture, a conversation show about J. Kelly and the Sandman. Today we will talk about J. Kelly, the new drama starring George Clooney, which is now streaming on Netflix. Perhaps you've heard about them this week. Adam Sandler co stars in the film and is one of the highlights of this movie. So we're gonna take this opportunity to build the Adam Sandler hall of Fame. Or at least I will.

[Amanda Davin]

No, I can build an Adam Sandler hall of Fame. The hesitation you saw in my face was not the second half of that sentence.

[Sean Fennesee]

Got it. The first half about Netflix. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by Noah Baumbach, the writer and director of Jay Kelly and someone who has not been on the show in six years. It's been six years since Marriage Story. He did make one film in between those two, White Noise. We talked a bit about the period between White Noise and Jay Kelly. Talked about making this new movie, talked about movie stardom, talked about Sandler. Great conversation. Bombach, one of our favorites. I hope you'll stick around for that chat. But first let's take a quick break and then we'll talk.

[Amanda Davin]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by Amazon Prime. You know how in every great holiday movie, there's that last minute scramble to make it all come together. From gifts to hosting essentials, Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and just can't wait. So if you need fast free delivery that saves the day, it's on Prime. Head to Amazon.comprime to shop now.

[Sean Fennesee]

Not a ton of news in the world to break down today.

[Amanda Davin]

We are not since Monday morning.

[Sean Fennesee]

Right. And it is Tuesday afternoon. Yeah. We are following the Warner Brothers Netflix Paramount saga.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

There's a lot of saber rattling.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

Very few men are unsheathing their swords.

[Amanda Davin]

Though at this moment. I understand that the top price is still $30. I don't.

[Sean Fennesee]

Per share. Per share, not $30 total.

[Amanda Davin]

Like to announce that I'm buying Warner Brothers and then I personally will be leading the tours on the studio lot.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes, it's $30 per share if you include the cable companies.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes. So whatever. But will the. Will the Ellisons and their motley crew go higher?

[Sean Fennesee]

I offered to buy the Discovery Channel and that just want the Discovery Channel. Does that still exist? Is that still a channel you can watch?

[Amanda Davin]

I want to buy the golf carts and then just drive around the lot.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you Think you'll buy a golf cart in your lifetime?

[Amanda Davin]

So growing up, my grandparents, my North Carolina grandparents, they lived about a quarter mile from my aunts and uncles in like very rural North Carolina. So they did buy a golf cart for us to just drive on the road back and forth.

[Sean Fennesee]

Nice.

[Amanda Davin]

And you could either drive on the road or on the back trails. But like, let me tell you, I went hard. I, like, I caught air on the golf carts.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, that's great. I caught air this morning when I learned Edwin Diaz is not returning to the New York Mass.

[Amanda Davin]

Wow, what an incredible segue.

[Sean Fennesee]

So the most important news in my world today and I'm just, I'm honestly extremely frustrated and devastated and I don't know what to say. It's not germane to movies, but it is germane to my psychological state.

[Amanda Davin]

It's germane to 2/3 of this podcast because I've never seen Jack Sanders sadder. I, when I saw him this morning, I said, how are you? And he said, terrible. And then I, but I, you know, I didn't at that moment have the context of Edwin Diaz leaving the Mets. So I just thought Jack was a shambles, which I suppose he is in a sports related sense.

[Sean Fennesee]

I, it really doesn't matter to the grand scheme of the big picture conversation, except to say that I was hoping that the New York Mets would not be embarrassing and they keep proving me wrong.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

And I, I, I just, I, I need more things to pour my heart into.

[Amanda Davin]

So. Embarrassing in what sense?

[Sean Fennesee]

We, we just, we don't optically want to lose the best closer in baseball.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

To the most dominant franchise in the sport and then replace said closer with the Yankees setup. Man, that's loser shit. Who had a horrible season. We don't do that, you know, and it could work out, it could be fine. I could be here with you next October and saying, we did it. David Stearns, your daddy. You did it, brother. Today. No bueno.

[Amanda Davin]

Not feeling good.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's all I'm going to say about it.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. Thank you for enduring that.

[Amanda Davin]

You're welcome.

[Sean Fennesee]

Would you like to talk about J. Kelly?

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, let's discuss it. So, as I said, written and directed by Noah Baumbach. His first film since White Noise, it's co written with Emily Mortimer. The first time they've collaborated together. Emily Mortimer, you know, established actress and also a writer in her own right, wrote Doll and M, the HBO series some years back. The film is shot by Lena Sandgren, music by Nicholas Britel. Some new collaborators here for Bombach on this film. It stars George Clooney as the titular J. Adam Sandler, Laura Dern, Billy Crudup, a cavalcade of, I would say, elevated cameos from well known actors and actresses in the world. The story is thus a famous aging movie star facing a midlife crisis, navigating regret and his fractured family relationships while on an impromptu European journey with with his manager after his daughter leaves for college. Exploring themes of identity, legacy and the gap between public Persona and private life. Is that an adequate encomium of what this film is?

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, I think it is in some ways. No, it's correct. It's also just a road trip buddy comedy and I think in a series of vignettes in some ways with the through line of what it is to be a movie star or a father. But yeah, good Logline. Great job.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is it a good movie?

[Amanda Davin]

I am completely flummoxed by this movie. I have seen it twice now. I fought to get to the Venice premiere, the world premiere of J. Kelly, because really, nothing is more important to me than a new Noah Baumbach film. You and I have been living for waiting for this movie since it was announced.

George Clooney starring in a Noah Balmac movie set in Europe is also pretty high bar in terms of my personal expectations and interests about Hollywood. Yes. So I was as ready as ready could be. And I saw it in Venice and we, you know, you saw it at Telluride shortly thereafter. We talked about it and then briefly. But we're like, we'll wait and see.

[Sean Fennesee]

You were mixed at the time and I liked it with some notes.

[Amanda Davin]

I watched it again in the comfort of my home by the light of the Christmas tree. And.

I want to like it so much more than I do. I think it's a real mess. I don't understand about half of it and there's a lot to like in it. Obviously, I like most of the performances. I like the subject matter. I like Europe. I think that it's an interesting visual departure for Baumbach and you know, he's out of rooms in New York City and into the world and in his bag and experimenting a bit. And I just, I don't think that it comes together in any real way specifically for me. You know, there are kind of two, two main thrusts of the movie. There's the Jay Kelly who is the movie star played by George Clooney, and there is his relationship with his daughters and.

What he has given up to be a movie star and you know, the trade off, work, life, balance, if you will. You know, familiar.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's literally what it is.

[Amanda Davin]

Familiar to every. To all the mamas out there.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. And the fathers.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, sure. And then this year, I guess you guys just learned about work life balance this year, which we'll come back to.

[Sean Fennesee]

We had to get through Covid to be able to make art about it, but we've always known.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay, that's.

[Sean Fennesee]

Just want you to know that.

[Amanda Davin]

And then there is an another.

Storyline which is about just the more industry specific. Right. And it's the relationship between Jake Kelly and his manager, played by Adam Sandler. And then, you know, there's like the entourage surrounding Jake Kelly, and there are some good inside, you know, jokes or at least observations. It's born of.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's the word, is observations.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, yeah, that's also the problem. But it's clearly born of experiences and, you know, a life lived making movies both for Noah Baumbach and Emily Mortimer. But I really don't feel that the two storylines come together very cleanly at all. And I think the second storyline is pretty undercooked and doesn't get enough room to really bring home emotionally what's going on.

[Sean Fennesee]

So the idea of the relationships between these people in the orbit of J. Kelly and making sense of. Okay, so it's interesting that you frame it that way. I probably feel in the inverse. Okay, I think I feel that the family story, while seemingly quite true and an interesting idea to explore, is not as elegantly or interestingly communicated to me, because I think that that is the side of the story that has a lot of melodrama and sincerity, and that is something that is not Bombach's calling card. He's not. Family dynamics isn't his calling card, but people at an emotional remove with the kind of like the blankness of the J. Kelly character. He's usually. He has much more tenacious characters. He writes really sharp, hard, tough, biting characters. He's the best at that, honestly. When his movies are going and two people are yelling at each other, or not yelling, but they want to yell, he's incredible at communicating that kind of angst. J. Kelly, the reason why I like the second half and not the first half is that his blankness is what sells the second half, that the movie doesn't conclude because he is still just J. Kelly at the end of the movie. He's still just the movie star who is ultimately significantly more important, both in a practical, financial, structural way and also in a social dynamics way where there's no way to really change once you have Become a big movie star. How you exist in the world and how everyone feels around you. And so I find that when characters are talking about him, the movie makes sense. When he's talking to other characters, it makes a little bit less sense because he is this ineffable thing. The same way we're like, what even is Tom Cruise? What even is George Clooney? They try to communicate some humanity in their interviews and in their public facing Personas, but they've kind of exited the same existence that we have. Which I think is what Bombach is trying to get at is that there's this rare class of alien that lives among us and they make all these sacrifices and they hurt people around them to get where they get. And then they get to the end and no one can really love them in the way that they want to be loved. But everyone feels like they need them because of the system that they sought to succeed. So it's a very odd framework for a movie by placing the Kelly character right at the center of it.

[Amanda Davin]

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Like an action blockbuster, the holidays move quick. But with Prime 3 fast free delivery means those last minute gifts arrive right when you need them. Last year, while watching Singin in the Rain with my son, I realized a pair of tap shoes would be a perfect Christmas gift. And I had them under the tree for him on Christmas day. Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and just can't wait. Last minute holiday magic. It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.comprime to shop now. It's a movie.

That is more interested in everybody's relationship to him than what's going on inside him. Except then it builds like a large part of the architecture of the film is flashbacks where George Clooney as contemporary, like, you know, real time. Jake Kelly is watching flashbacks of his own life with very emotional faces, you know, as if he has like regret and other. And I, you know, I don't even think Clooney's bad in this. I think he might be very good. I am very moved by the act of watching George Clooney the movie star have feelings on camera. Like that still works. And the movie does sort of try to use it. But I agree that it's more effective when it's other people relating to him. The problem then.

Is that.

There are too many people relating to him. And so pretty much everything is very thin. Like even the, you know, there's a climactic scene between the. What is the name of Adam Sandler's manager character?

[Sean Fennesee]

Ron.

[Amanda Davin]

Ron, that's right. And Jay. That is like, sort of doing Godfather too, but. But I was like, this is not the Godfather too. You guys are just kind of like yelling at each other after doing, you know, I don't understand why you're that mad. There's not a lot of tension.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's the thing. I agree with that.

[Amanda Davin]

There's not a lot of tension. And so at least in the other half, the tension is kind of, you know, elemental, so you can understand it.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's a fair point though, right? Like, the loss of connection to a daughter is a much more easily explainable kind of like, plot thread. Then this guy's manager feels that they're not friends. And is that really a crisis?

It's tricky because one, there's like a long tradition of movies like this, right? There's like, Bergman's Wild Strawberries. Is this Eight and a Half? Is this It's a Wonderful Life as a version of this, where somebody looks back on their life or what could have been, and then they examine the choices that they've made and they use that flashback structure where you can kind of walk right into the reality of the past. And it's cool to see Bombach do that. It's cool to see him do it with someone like Lena Sandgren, you know, like, this movie looks very different from all of his other movies. It's much more visually elevated.

I think one of the problems of the movie is that the movie very early on is telling you what's happening, which is that there's this encounter between, after the funeral of a close friend of Clooney's who was a mentor and a filmmaker played by Jim Broadbent. He dies early on in the movie. They go to the funeral, outside the funeral, waiting for them, seemingly on purpose. But though it's never communicated, it's meant to be. A random encounter is an old friend named Tim who was in acting class and an acting buddy of J. Kelly as a young man. Billy Crudup plays Tim. You know, they make nice, they make chit chat, and then they go to get a drink together. You know, the J. Kelly character doesn't go into public too often. You can tell he doesn't fraternize too often in ways like this. You can see that because of the energy that Ron is communicating. So then Tim and Jay have this drink and they're remembering old times and they're talking. Jay is so admiring of Tim's great talents. As an actor, even though he never made it as a star, he went on to become a child therapist. He gets Crudup to do this performance of reading the menu. Right. Where he taps into his method.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

And Crudup kind of takes over the movie for five minutes. It's a very impressive performance.

[Amanda Davin]

It got applause at the premiere in Venice. Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

Actors love it. It kind of just. It lifts the movie for a minute because it's kind of a shambling movie through the first 15 minutes or so. And then it becomes clear that Tim actually doesn't think back fondly on Jay. In fact, he feels that Jay stole his life and becomes a very tense situation. They have this sort of encounter where they're leaving the bar after getting into an argument, and Tim reveals that he has already built a relationship with Jay's older daughter, who we later find out is played by Riley Keough. And he tells Jay that she describes him as an empty vessel. And I think the movie wants you to think that's true, that Jay Kelly is an empty vessel. And he essentially. It's not that he doesn't have a soul. It's that he has been performing the act of being J. Kelly for so long, which is to say you could never make a mistake in public. You always have to be smiling whenever a stranger approaches you. You cannot ruin the. The image you've worked so hard to protect. And that doing this and being this person, while it is the most privileged place in the universe, kills yourself, kills your soul, kills your identity and makes you a nothing. And then the only thing that you really have is this thing that you've been doing for decades, this thing you've been protecting. I don't know if that is a dynamic enough idea to support a movie with tension like you're describing.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, does what I'm saying make sense to you?

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, it does. And I mean, and like. And it's there in the script that it's setting up. You're gonna. That. That sentence also sets up, like, the therapist that you see later. Like, in some ways, it is very tightly written, but I don't know whether it's the way that it's executed, whether, like, the. The tone or whether it's bringing in something else emotionally where.

There is, in addition to those, all, like, pretty sharp bombach observations about a successful person who is flawed and has failed others and is coming to.

To. To terms with that or is being faced with that.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yep.

[Amanda Davin]

In, like, ugly ways. There's also this.

Lightness and sense of charm to his Life, which, like, is charmed. And it's. I guess it is communicating. Okay, like, movie stars lived a charmed life. But also, there's a sense of wonder to almost everything that happens. And everything he runs through that.

Like, runs counter to that ugliness and sort of undermines it. And so the next thing that happens after the Billy Crudup character says that he's been in touch with Clooney's daughter is that they have a, like, a quote unquote fight. And the Uber driver is recording it. But. And it's very. It is funny, but it's played for slapstick. It's not ugly. It's not. This is a person in crisis. This is, you know, And I guess maybe you're looking at the Uber driver recording and thinking, hmm, that's going to end up on tmz. But even in the way it's communicated, it's just. It's kind of farcical.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let me ask you a question. If they had swapped Brad Pitt with George Clooney in this movie, would it have felt different?

[Amanda Davin]

Probably.

[Sean Fennesee]

Because Clooney, who can mug effectively, who's a very comic performer, and if in the right hands, like the Coen brothers, for example, can really do what you're describing, that kind of lightness, that farcical quality, and some of the farcical stuff, I think hurts this movie. I think this movie is at its best when it is. When we're seeing Ron in pain directly. You know, when we're seeing Riley Keough or the younger daughter whose name escapes me, the actress whose name escapes me, who we saw in Asteroid City, when we see them really struggling. And maybe that's just because I. I don't know. Bombach writes funny stuff like While We're Young is funny. Like, it's not that he doesn't. He doesn't know how to write with that comic sensibility, but Clooney's goofball Lane. The movie kind of glides into a little bit where there's a lot of, like, anticipation, bubbly characters entering his orbit. And when the movie is at its daffiest is when I'm least interested in it.

[Amanda Davin]

I agree.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. But I do think that there is something. You know what? Your mileage is gonna vary. Cause if you don't really have empathy for somebody who's living the extraordinarily privileged lifestyle of a J. Kelly, if you can't get your head around this person's struggle, so to speak, it's just gonna be a hard movie for you to enjoy. And it is a movie made by somebody who's been working in movies for a very long time, who has access to people like Jay Kelly, who. Whose wife is a extraordinarily famous and successful person. They're coming off of the crazy success of Barbie, Academy Award nominations, a billion dollars at the box office. So these are very elevated concerns. I don't know, but in the world of literature and characterization, don't you want to see people whose lives you've never seen before, whose lives we don't understand, closely explored? I found that stuff pretty interesting. Now, obviously, I do also love movies and I love the idea of stardom. I'm interested in that idea deeply.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, you know, but so am I. And I think I do want to see it portrayed and even explored. I would argue that this movie portrays it but does not explore it. And so you get the funny moments of everyone on the train being like, there's no third class. It's 50 days before Easter. It's a very important holiday. And the tmz, you get some of the imaginations like the team at work. But then just as quickly it's over and half of the team disappears. And through it all, J. Kelly as George Clooney, as Clooney is just kind of walking through it, pretty charmed and unbothered. And also he's okay. Like the punchline to the whole TMZ bar fight video story is that he then performs another viral video.

Interaction with locals and that's the one that winds up posted and he's portrayed as a hero. And I understand that's supposed to be the contrast between like, that interaction is very weird, but also slightly more nuanced because the, the bag thief, you know, has.

Some issues. But so he's like, I'm not really a hero, but I'm a hero. But like, it was all posted on the Internet, so it's fine. So there are not even any, you know, repercussions within the idea of movie star. It pulls its punches, maybe.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think that it's just that when you are that person, the preservation of the false self is everything, you know, it's just that is an idea that I understood and I liked seeing him explore, especially because the people who are around him have a different relationship to him. Especially the kind of professional people at this stage where the J. Kelly character is like 60, early 60s, and he's obviously on the downside as a star, but still is enormously famous pretty much probably a one to one with George Clooney in terms of his Stature. And the Laura Dern character plays Liz, his publicist.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's this kind of interesting avatar of, like, I'm over it. Like, it ain't what it used to be. You know, she's really kind of burnt out on dealing with the bullshit, dealing with the frivolity and the impulsiveness of a star and having to navigate that and having logged many years of traipsing around the world following after this person, not being treated with respect, not getting invited to parties, but having to do all the hard, heavy lifting of managing the person's life. Whereas the Ron character, the Adam Sandler character, who I don't know, you know, I'm obviously in the bag for Sandler, and I think he's become a very deft, dramatic actor. But I really found his performance heartbreaking in this movie. And I. You know, we've had friends who are managers tell us that's not what a manager does, and we can talk about that. But at least in the world of this movie.

What he sees as his role in life and the lack of recognition of the role that he plays, the status that he has alongside this person he's worked with for so long and fought for for so long. Because we know in this world you gotta, like, yell at people on the phone and fight really hard and make space for the person that he's just not returned in kind. Like nothing. He's never gonna be one quarter of a person, let alone an equal to somebody like Jay. And I thought Sandler communicated that very well. And of course, that's funny, because as Noah told me when I talked to him, like, Sandler is Jay Kelly, too. Sandler is, frankly, Adam Sandler is bigger than George Clooney. He may not have the same iconography in the history of American movies. He's way more successful in terms of what he's been able to build as a star. And there's something interesting about him as an actor being forced to tap into that mentality too. It is very humanizing. So I don't know. When you take the big, broad idea, elevated style and the Sandler performance, I come out liking the movie. It's definitely not perfect. Yeah, it's definitely got some mess.

[Amanda Davin]

I want to clarify that. I. I think Adam Sandler is very good in the movie. I don't understand that character at all, or I do, but again, I think it's like, it's pretty. One note. He doesn't get a ton of room to explore what's going on. I think some of the efforts at characterization are just frustrating. Like, respectfully, they could have served out the father daughter match before he left, you know, but it's like. And there are some things in that where I really did catch on the specificities. And I'm like, well, no, no, no. That doesn't even make sense within this world. So I just don't think that the character gets enough room to really pay off that confrontation on the dance floor. And it, you know, the ending, the very tender moment of them at the very end is.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is sweet. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, no, I was gonna say after they're on the road, when they're doing each other's makeup and bow tie.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

And, you know, and that's very sweet. And that's reconciliation of we weren't really friends and now we have each other.

[Sean Fennesee]

And that's Bill and cr. That's what they do.

[Amanda Davin]

I know that's. That's the true love story, you know, but it's sort of like that's the like Glinda and Elphaba of this movie, you know, like. And I had that moment three quarters away in. I was like, oh, this is the love story. And that's nice, but, like, did we earn it? I. You know, I don't know.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't know. I felt like they did. One of the tricky things about it is with the daughters, what's done is done. Like, he just wasn't there and you just can't fix it. And as you know, you're a grudge holder. Like, grudge holders know, like, if you ain't there, if you didn't fix it at the time, you can't fix it with kids.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

And that. That's going to haunt him and it's especially going to haunt them. And the whole movie is kind of a haunting. Right. And I think maybe he had like shifted some of that farce a little bit. You could be like a much more. An actually more Bergman esque kind of film where it's like. It is the series of like, ghostly encounters with the past instead of something that is trying to balance a kind of fizzy Netflix comedy with some of the more interior exploration. But as is. I liked it for the most part. You asked an interesting question here, which is, is this a good George Clooney performance?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And I don't really know. There's one moment that rang really false to me that I can tell you about.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, go ahead.

[Sean Fennesee]

When he's in the bathroom on the train and he's doing the recitation of J. Kelly. Clark Gable.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

Gary Cooper, Gary Grant. And he's like, situating himself and almost like he's created a mantra to calm himself and also to question himself and figure out where he kind of, like, what he is and who he is. Yeah, I don't. I just didn't really understand. Like, I didn't. I just guess I didn't buy that very much.

[Amanda Davin]

Everything that was going on with him and the train was absolutely bizarre to me when he's suddenly making friends with everyone on the train. And I imagine this is written as some sort of. I don't know whether it's like, you know, like, whimsical set piece, and you've got 45 different people on the train and everyone. And it has one of kind of the key.

Lines of the movie thematically, which is like, when I look at you, I see my whole life. Right. But he's really hamming it up in that train scene. And he's like, you will all come to Italy. I was like, what are you.

[Sean Fennesee]

I feel like it's him performing humanity, which he doesn't really have, which is like. It's a funny idea. It's a funny idea. You're right that it doesn't always click. Like, I just see it on the page. I can see it 100%.

[Amanda Davin]

Like, you know, and you see the signposts in the dialogue and in what they were going for. And I'm just like, this didn't really land. And I don't know whether that's the Clooney performance. I don't know whether it's that, you know, the. The marrying of tones. Because there is. There are a few scenes that are more.

Dark, Bomback family confrontations. There's a great family therapy scene. It's just.

[Sean Fennesee]

Josh Hamilton is unbelievable in this movie.

[Amanda Davin]

It's just always so nice when you see Josh Hamilton pop up in any film, but in a bomback film.

And then the scene in the woods, also with the Riley Keough character, well.

[Sean Fennesee]

She'S got some bracing dialogue, which Clooney.

[Amanda Davin]

Is, like, running towards. Very Michael Clayton esque also. And he's not one of our great movie star runners, which is also very funny. And you're reminded of that. But I was taken back to the Michael Clayton of it all. And, I mean, that scene is maybe slightly more broadly written than a typical bomback, you know, than the really gnarly parts of Squid and the Whale. But it's tough and it's true and it's direct and straightforward. And I was like, I understand the tension here. I understand the stakes, you know? And when she says to him, like, I'll be like, I'll have a good life, just not with you. I mean, that's some brutal stuff.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I think there's a handful of lines in this movie that are really, really elegant, clean daggers. Like, when Laura Dern's character is getting ready to leave the train because her colleague's cat has eaten a screw, which is a funny detail.

Before she leaves, she says to Ron Sandler's character, we're not to him what he is to us.

In my life, I've been in the presence of some extremely famous and successful people, and this is something to think about. Like.

People who are incredibly successful, they do kind of exit the realm of normality. And I think the movie has some, like, really. It does have some observational comedy, but a lot of it is sharp. It's not all. It's not. I'm not trying to say it's, you know, a magical five out of five masterpiece.

[Amanda Davin]

So isn't that funny is the thing. It's more like, chuckle funny as opposed to, like, oh, that's. That's clever.

[Noah Baumbach]

Or.

[Amanda Davin]

Huh.

[Sean Fennesee]

How do you feel about Noah Baumbach being in, like, his late style, period?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't mind sentimental Noah Baumbach. Like, I was up here yelling at you about Frances. Ha.

[Sean Fennesee]

No, I was yelling at you.

[Amanda Davin]

That was your choice, and you made it. And there is an episode coming out on December 31st.

[Sean Fennesee]

Your choice was Lady Bird At All Costs.

[Amanda Davin]

I really. I can't get into this with you, but we love Francis. Ha. I'm so angry.

[Sean Fennesee]

I actually. Well, I'll save it. I'll save what I was going to say for another episode at another time when you and I are even happier together when we're doing even better than we are right now.

[Amanda Davin]

And I think.

Me, too. I'm so tired.

[Sean Fennesee]

And then you only have 11 more episodes. I know.

[Amanda Davin]

And also, just, like. Just like, waiting around all day for you to be done with your stupid Zoom meetings. Just getting.

[Sean Fennesee]

I have a lot to do.

[Amanda Davin]

Get your shit done. Like, you actually don't just hang up the Zoom call. You don't have.

[Noah Baumbach]

No, I'm needed.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm needed.

[Amanda Davin]

This is. Well, that's why you relate to the Adam Sandler character. They don't need you on the Zoom. Go live your life.

[Sean Fennesee]

I wish. I wish I could. I wish I could. I'm just trying to keep everything on its feet. You wouldn't know about that. You wouldn't know.

[Amanda Davin]

I know because I'm just I'm living my own life. I'm on the train. I'm the younger daughter. Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's right. Also that scene.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. Gigi and I are going to Sicily to make a movie.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's beautiful. I know you guys love cinema. That scene also I found very effective where he. Where his younger daughter shares with him after he has basically phone tracked her to France, that.

She wants to be an actress, that even though she's very gifted in science and is very intelligent, that she wants to pursue a life in the arts. And Clooney is.

[Amanda Davin]

Even though she's very intelligent, she wants to pursue a life.

[Sean Fennesee]

Come on. No, it's like that she has options. It's that she has options and that her father has done this and she doesn't have to do this, but she has a culture. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Or. Or. Because she says in. Let's see. And I know you always thought Jessica was the real actor, but I can do it too.

[Sean Fennesee]

So she's trying to prove something to him. Yeah, yeah, that's possible too. I'm sure it's a combination of both. Right. But his reaction to me, this is Clooney's best part, like performance in the film.

[Amanda Davin]

He's doing great work in that scene.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes, that scene is really, really strong to me. And his. His kind of like sadness and like him immediately trying to encourage her away from it and like, that forces a kind of self recognition about what it him to do this and the absence in her life. And that kind of like very funny matter of fact style that daughters and fathers sometimes have. Literally. We've seen this like five times this year in movies, but it's another really good example of that sort of thing. I don't know. This movie's pretty interesting.

[Amanda Davin]

It has some good scenes. That's a good scene. He's very good in the therapy scene. Yes, he's very good in that scene in the woods. And then I think the ending, at least the cinema tribute ending.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let's talk about it. Because the film ends and spoilers for J. Kelly. I mean, it's been on Netflix for five days and I think a lot of people have seen it if they really want to. But this hit in every review when the film came out. The film ends dramatically with this tribute to Jay Kelly, which his character has been kind of moving towards in Italy throughout the entirety of the film. And finally the film ends on him watching his life in the movies on screen and then cutting back to his reaction to watching his life in the movies. Now, I think a lot of People really like this. And it sounds like you really liked it.

[Amanda Davin]

I did.

[Sean Fennesee]

I was a little bit more mixed on it. Can I tell you why?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Sean Fennesee]

It was kind of a reminder of the mixed nature of George Clooney's career.

[Amanda Davin]

But I thought that was a clever part of that. Like Jay Kelly is not Brad Pitt.

[Sean Fennesee]

I know it knows that, but it kind of like disassembled the idea or maybe, maybe it elevated it, maybe it made it smarter.

[Amanda Davin]

This is not like, you know, an honorary Oscar. This is a made up award in Tuscany where they actually refashion a second glass sculptural popcorn box or something.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's the price.

[Amanda Davin]

It's not. I don't think it's supposed to be a tribute to the true heights of cinema.

[Sean Fennesee]

Just very funny to see clips from the Peacemaker and Leatherheads in the tribute room. And I'm sure that's knowing on Bombach's part. You know, there's something funny about it not just being, you know, Traffic and Syriana and the Ocean's films and, you know, the films he's really well known for, but it. And maybe that is the idea. The idea is that it was like. And for what? For five iconic movies, Right? Five movies people really like. Five movies that are cool, five movies that bombed and five movies you've forgotten about. And then that's your life.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And I guess that's interesting. I don't know, I'm not sure if it quite like it didn't hit us. Hit home as hard for me personally.

[Amanda Davin]

I mean it, to me, it was an illustration of the. Like, when I look at you, I see. I see my life. Because you remember all of those points. And it's, you know, it's an argument against the film J. Kelly in a lot of ways that, that just. You could have just shown that montage and I was like, oh, great, I got it. You know, like sort of. Yeah, yeah. And I was just thinking about the ending of Babylon, which is like, you know, maybe a similar, like.

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, also shot by Lena Sandgren. Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Davin]

I was like, oh, okay. Like, I get it. But I did find myself emotionally connected to that more than I was at any other point in the film.

[Sean Fennesee]

Rare W for montages from. You love to hear it.

[Amanda Davin]

And I think Clooney responding to it is. He's good in that moment and it's making me feel what I'm supposed to feel. But I'm not thinking about his relationship with Ron or even his daughters in that moment. I guess I'm Thinking about that's the whole thing, though. Well, I know.

[Sean Fennesee]

Then it goes an exercise in narcissism, this whole career.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. But then it cuts to what is finally playing in his tribute reel. And what sets up the last line, which, you know, is. Is good writing. Noah Baumbach and Emily Mortimer are good at writing is like an imagination, like an imagined memory or one last flashback of his daughters putting on the plays that they both reference in the. Earlier in the film. And listen, Yassi Salak saw this before me and pointed out the inconsistency, but it is really hard to get past that. They are. They are 18 years apart in age, and that's said multiple times. Their ages are noted, like, specifically in the film multiple times. Because he even says, I've been doing this for 35 years. And she says, I'm 34 and a half. You know, it's like it's all built in. But then they're suddenly on screen in the most emotional moment, doing this play together, and they're the exact same age. I don't understand. So then I got taken out of that moment, too.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's messy.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, it's messy. So I guess just none of the flights are fancy, and it worked for me.

[Sean Fennesee]

Does the line reading connect for you at all, Sean? Because when I was watching it, I wasn't overwhelmed emotionally by any stretch with the actual montage, but when Clooney actually reads the line, it kind of hit me like a truck. Honestly, no. And there are other moments in the movie that do hit me, but for whatever reason, that part didn't. I think it proved its point, but didn't move me. I was much more moved by Ron. I thought that that whole.

Discursive journey into this guy who's like, I feel like I'm doing the right thing, and I feel like I'm helping and making something successful and we're doing it together.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's just like I've not really seen that character before. And I just really liked Sandler's performance. And I think that the J. Kelly thing is like, if you like the movie or don't like the movie, it's like it'll be either a success of the design or a failure of the design, where it's like, this is a guy who's not really about anything. He's just about himself. And that to do this well, you kind of have to be all about yourself at all costs. Doesn't make you not a human being, but it makes you, I think, a little bit less of an Engaged person. And he knows it. You know, like, there's an interesting moment early in the movie where he. I guess I don't even know if this is happening in real time or if it's a flashback, as I think back on it, but when he's meeting with Peter in his kitchen, flashback. And Peter has come to him and he said he wants him to come do his last movie, he wants to do two movies in a row before, you know, he wants to get back on track. This is the man who's giving him his big break. And Clooney is just like, I can't do it. Yeah, I can't do it.

[Amanda Davin]

Pickles, don't expire. Another great piece of writing. It's great.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, there's pre writing. There's a lot of great lines in the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

He knows when he's saying no to Peter, he thinks he's doing, like, the responsible thing. He's like, I'm protecting my brand. I'm protecting my.

[Amanda Davin]

He just. He's like, I can't do it. It's not. You know, he's pretty dismissive and puts the, like, the football arm out, like, very quickly.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Yeah. Which is something that. We just saw another version of this where Stellan Skarsgrd's character in Sentimental Value and he goes back to talk with his former cinematographer. You know, and Sentimental Value and this movie are very much in conversation with each other, or at least incidentally in conversation with each other.

You know, when he goes back and he thinks he's gonna work with this longtime cinematographer, but in watching him move around his own apartment, realizes that he's gotten old and he's moving more slowly and that he is himself, like this reminder of their age together and what they've done together. And I like both of those scenes in both of those movies. But Stellan Skarsgrd's character.

Does get to redeem himself. And I'm not sure that J. Kelly, like, redeems himself at all. And I don't know that you have to do that. But if you're not gonna redeem the character, I think the movie needs to be a little bit darker and meaner. You know what I mean?

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, I agree. I mean, that is the thing where it wants to be mean about this person. But then it has Alba Rohr coming in to talk about the power of Italy. And by the way, I thought she was very funny and great in this.

[Sean Fennesee]

She got big, big applause in Telluride as well.

[Amanda Davin]

I'm very amused by it. But it has all of these, like, silly.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, it's a zany Fellini homage in the middle of an otherwise, like, sad movie about a depressed 62 year old multimillionaire.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, cool. J. Kelly, Academy Awards. Seems like.

[Amanda Davin]

No, I said it's pretty weird.

[Sean Fennesee]

Seems like. I mean, obviously the film was not nominated for best. I assume it was slotted into comedy or musical for the Golden Globes.

[Amanda Davin]

I would assume.

[Sean Fennesee]

And did not make it there. No, Clooney did get nominated.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes. As did Sandler.

[Sean Fennesee]

And Sandler, I don't think Clooney is competitive. And Best Actor, I could be wrong about that because he is a huge star and is an avatar of Hollywood greatness. But the movie seems to have had a mixed reception thus far.

[Amanda Davin]

He was on the New Heights podcast, so. Right, absolutely.

[Sean Fennesee]

For sure. Listen to that.

[Amanda Davin]

I just watched him do a clip about how he never fights with his wife and then Travis Kelce confirms that he also doesn't fight with Taylor Swift.

[Sean Fennesee]

How nice.

[Amanda Davin]

How believable.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's great. Yeah, I'm sure those guys are really happy.

Sandler.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. Now I love Adam Sandler.

[Sean Fennesee]

Sandler is running into the one battle Buzzsaw in terms of the awards race. I think after he was not nominated for Uncut Gems, there became this newfound awareness. I remember he gave that incredible Independent Film Awards Spirit awards speech and he was in Hustle and people really liked Hustle and obviously he's had a tremendous number of huge comedy hits, but also in recent years, some dramatic performances that have gotten good notices. And so I definitely thought in January when we were talking about the most anticipated movies of the year, I was like, this just kind of seems like it's the Sandler Oscar written all over it.

[Amanda Davin]

And we also thought that this was going to be, you know, Baumbach finally makes his movie about Hollywood. Like, Netflix gives the people what they want. And then, you know, 2025 happened.

[Sean Fennesee]

It did. It sure did. And then Frankenstein took its spot.

[Amanda Davin]

Frankenstein or New Velvock, I mean, is not going to be that.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, Train Dreams is the movie that has probably slid into the J. Kelly spot.

[Amanda Davin]

That's not.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's not done with. We got a long time to talk about what's going to happen over the next couple of months. But I'm curious about the Sandler thing. I do think he will be nominated for an Academy Award.

[Amanda Davin]

You do?

[Sean Fennesee]

I do. I do. I don't think he will win because there's two one battle performers in there. Stellen Skarsgard is in there. Paul Mescal is in there. There's a number of strong competitive names in the mix, but I don't know. We'll see. We'll see what he does. He's already done an event with Timothee Chalamet.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, probably more events to come. Sandler is very charming in these atmospheres. I've. I did a couple things with him during Uncut Gems, and he's just like, magic. Like, if there's just like a dead air moment, he's like, I got this. You know, he just is really, really good at campaigning and meeting people.

[Amanda Davin]

Was it last year's Oscars that he also saved? Yeah, I think not saved, but he was one of the major highlights. Just in the audience being like, shalom, you know.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes, yes.

[Amanda Davin]

He's wherever he goes. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

So his career. Do you. Do you remember the first time that you saw him?

[Amanda Davin]

Absolutely. Hanukkah song.

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, yeah. Okay. The video or on SNL or.

[Amanda Davin]

Probably. Well, I think it's probably the first time I heard him, because you better believe that. Played radio. Yeah. But then I must have gotten, like, huge Z100 hit. Sure. But I must have gotten, like, the long cut because, like, drink your gin and tonica and smoke your marijuana because, you know, engraved in my head.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, yeah. That was on the second album. That was not on the first album. Right. First albums, you're all gonna. They're all gonna laugh at you. Which I probably listened to 48,000 times.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. So I. Tom Cruise isn't. But I heard his agent is.

[Sean Fennesee]

He was on Remote Control on MTV in the 80s from 87 to 90. I definitely watched Remote Control. He was like stud boy. He was like the Vanna White of that show in some way, which is like a kind of trivia game show on mtv. I'm sure I saw him. I didn't really clock him on that show. Did watch a lot of MTV from, like, 1987 through 1989. SNL. He's on SNL from 1990 to 1995.

At the time, this was a hugely derided cast that has now gone on to be some of the most successful people in Hollywood. This is like the tail end of the Mike Myers, Dana Carvey era. And then you've got Chris Rock, Chris Farley, David Spade, Rob Schneider, Adam Sandler, all of his homies, all of the people that he has still kind of kept in the mix.

He debuts all of his singing gags on the show at that time and then uses that show after he's fired off the show. In 1995, him and Chris Farley were both fired off of Saturday Night Live. That was the Saturday Night Dead. New York magazine cover sure.

Starts putting out music and starts making movies. 95. I mean, let's. Is there anything we want to say about what he is before we start going through the hall of Fame? I mean, I was speaking through some of his success. I think it's a little bit maybe undersung. Well, just like in terms of pure box office power, we've forgotten about it because he's been making Netflix movies for the last 10 years. The Western that he made, what is it called? The.

Shoot.

The Ridiculous 6 was 2015, and that was the start of this big relationship with Netflix. But before that, he had 21 movies that have made more than $100 million at the worldwide box office. So that's just 21 movies basically, like in the late 90s and 2000s, all the way up to 2015. There's, like, very few actors who can say that they are that present in movies now. I don't even really like most of those movies, so I'm not trying to say that that equates to quality, but.

[Amanda Davin]

The ones that you do like, I really like.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

And he has a presence outside of. I mean, he can be in the worst movie and just make his voice sound a certain way.

[Sean Fennesee]

And he can make his voice sound.

[Amanda Davin]

I mean, he is like one of our great vocalists. Both like singing. But in terms of what he can do with his voice to make you laugh.

That is singular, like, among living people. I would say to our generation at least, because we are so trained on the 90s of just him doing, like, you know, and you just. It's Pavlovian just to laugh.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I should have thought about how I could do this entire pod and his voice and sheep a dee doo. So he's like, obviously in this big tradition of smart, dumb stars, right. Where every character he plays is kind of an idiot, but you're really rooting for him. There's Buster Keaton, Jerry Lewis, Steve Martin, over and over again. This is a model for building an American movie star. And I think he's very kind of underestimated because he's made so many super silly movies. And the movies at the beginning of his career just got really bad critical notices. But if you were 13 when those movies came out, they were the best movies of all time. And they're still among my favorite movies of all time.

[Amanda Davin]

They're absolutely going into the hall of Fame.

[Sean Fennesee]

No, I know. I'm not frankly, we're not. We wouldn't even debate it if you said no. I would still overrule you on those facts. I think the point is though, is like every generation has their person where I Wonder, if a 14 year old watched Billy Madison right now, would they like it as much as I liked it as a kid?

[Amanda Davin]

Maybe they would jack Billy Madison.

[Sean Fennesee]

Thumbs up, thumbs down, Big thumbs up. Okay, that's nice to hear.

I don't know if that will continue to be true for him, but at the time, him and Jim Carrey were like gods to me. They were like gods to me. They were the funniest people in the universe. And his energy was very different from Jim Carrey's. Jim Carrey was manic. Adam Sandler was angry. And there's a difference. Adam Sandler could be silly, Jim Carrey could be silly. They both could be outrageous. But one was crazy and one was mad. And they were like an interesting pairing. Now those two guys specifically were kind of sort of replaced by a lot of guys who were inspired by those two guys with the whole Aptovian, Will Ferrell, Adam McKay world that came in in the 2000s. But.

I would suggest that his comedy in the 90s, his comedy movies are.

[Amanda Davin]

Actually underrated now, probably, though many of them have been remade or sequels to. You know, we are leading the reappraisal, the reclaiming, we are of the high arts of comedy. And I did also in that Timothee Chalamet, Adam Sandler appearance, I did watch Timothee Chalamet doing his like dream big greatness is real speech about Big daddy. So, like, it's. I think that. I think that we are taking it seriously.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, that raises one other thing that Sandler had that Jim Carrey did not, which was that Sandler was kind of a heartthrob, that he could very credibly be the romantic lead opposite Drew Barrymore or Jennifer Aniston in a movie. And he did it over and over again. You can make the case that those are actually his much more successful movies. It's not his super silly boy comedies. It's your 50 first dates. That those are the movies that he may even be remembered for. Just go with it. Those movies which I don't like as much. But when the Wedding Singer happened, that's the movie that changed his career, that really changed the trajectory of what kind of a star he could be.

So he's just one of my faves.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, he's a national treasure.

[Sean Fennesee]

He is a national treasure. I think he. And he's another one who. We were talking about this with Leo this year. I really appreciate that he wants to work with the Safdies and wants to. He's made some movies recently that don't work, like Spaceman, the Johan Renk movie that was on Netflix a couple years ago that I didn't really care for at all. And I don't think we talked about on the show. But I like that he tried it. I like that he used his powers to do something interesting that he found interesting.

[Amanda Davin]

I also like that he wants to work with his friends in beautiful places around the world. It's a great life philosophy.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's why we're moving this show to Tulum.

[Amanda Davin]

No, we can't. No, they don't even excited, Jack. Yeah, yeah, it's. Tulum's done. No.

[Sean Fennesee]

Where are we going?

[Amanda Davin]

Hawaii.

[Noah Baumbach]

Hawaii?

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Okay, now we're talking.

[Amanda Davin]

There we go.

[Sean Fennesee]

Which island?

[Amanda Davin]

Tulum. You can't even flush the toilet paper. They maxed out the grid. They have. They're not respecting the people.

[Sean Fennesee]

They maxed out the grid?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. I mean, and they did. The people really over ran and ruined Tulum.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes, the people. The American people, primarily.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

I mean, I think there's sort of like an international glitterati aspect to it. You know, the. The. The yoga, the yogi, influencers of the world.

[Sean Fennesee]

I've never been Tulum. I have not seen it.

[Amanda Davin]

I went once and then we didn't understand that it was on a different time zone than Cancun. So we almost missed our flight back. And that was one of the worst fights that my husband and I have ever had. But let's talk about it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let's talk more about, like, what was said. Get into it.

You want to do the hall of Fame? Is there anything else you want to say about Sandler?

[Amanda Davin]

No, I think we can do it during the hall of Fame.

[Sean Fennesee]

Will this be easy?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't think it will be challenging. I don't think there will be a knife fight.

[Sean Fennesee]

I hope not. Did you know what his five most successful movies are at the box office?

[Amanda Davin]

No, I didn't know that he was in.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you want to guess?

[Amanda Davin]

Well, no, I looked at it and I was like, what is Hotel Transylvania?

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, his top three movies at the box office are Hotel Transylvania 3, Hotel Transylvania 2, and Hotel Transylvania. I'm glad you asked. I just watched Hotel Transylvania, the first installment for the first time with my daughter.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

And it's a movie about a family of monsters that owns a hotel. He plays Dracula.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Fennesee]

Dracula has a Complicated relationship with his daughter Mavis.

[Amanda Davin]

Ah. How did you feel Adam Sandler's interpretation of Dracula worked in the context.

[Sean Fennesee]

One note. But effective.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. Yeah. So would it go in I want.

[Sean Fennesee]

To suck your blood.

[Amanda Davin]

Would it go in the Dracula hall of Fame after the fact?

[Sean Fennesee]

Who's Dracula? Hoffman.

[Amanda Davin]

Yours that you and Rob Mahoney made for, like, you know, Hotel Transylvania.

[Sean Fennesee]

Didn't come up. Well, should we call Rob?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Make an addendum. The next two films in his box office list are Grown Ups and Grown Ups 2.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

So this is a man who's making his own IP spin offs and sequels galore.

[Amanda Davin]

All right, so the poster for grownups is Adam Sandler and a bunch of men going on a tube down a water slide at a water park.

[Sean Fennesee]

I've seen it. I've seen the film.

[Amanda Davin]

No, no, no. But you said on the Avatar podcast that you've never been like, tubing. You've been tubing down a river, but you've never been tubing behind a boat.

[Sean Fennesee]

Correct, But I have been tubing at a water park.

[Amanda Davin]

You have?

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Many times.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. I just wanted to get this on the record.

[Sean Fennesee]

When I was growing up, there was your relationship to inflatable tubes, Long island called Splish Splash.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

Been a Splish Splash a great many times. It's a miracle I did not contract a disease there.

[Amanda Davin]

That is actually why I was very infrequently allowed at my parents read. Little too many, like consumer.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, it seemed like a very dangerous experience. There was an incredible slide, though, called Shotgun Falls. Man had some good times on that slide. Anyway, moving on. Adam Sandler, first film going overboard, has a small role in the movie. He plays a character named Shecky Moskowitz. That's not going in. He also has a small role in the Bobcat Goldthwait movie, Shakes the Clown. He plays Dink the Clown. Obviously not going in 1993 Coneheads. Did you get the Coneheads 4K from Kino Lorber?

Because they actually put one out.

[Amanda Davin]

I think I have to start doing reaction shots for Alex Ross Perry for his supercut or whatever. I think he wants visuals as well as me just being like, no, I didn't. Did you get it, Sean?

[Sean Fennesee]

I didn't get it. But you know what? I'd like to own it. This is a movie that I watch on HBO all the time. It's obviously a 14, 18 years later movie adaptation of two very famous characters that Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin played on Saturday Night Live. Now one thing I wanna Note about this movie. I've talked about this woman before because we did a Dazed and Confused podcast and Michelle Burke, who was in Dazed and Confused and stars as the daughter of the Conehead. She's Connie Conehead. I wanna say she's Adam. Is Adam Sandler her love interest in the movie? I can't remember for sure. He might be.

Michelle Burke had the juice.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't know where she is. I hope she's doing well.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

She had the juice.

[Amanda Davin]

It's important to identify this and, you know, honor people's contributions to your childhood. So. That's beautiful.

[Sean Fennesee]

This film is red. It's not going in.

[Amanda Davin]

All right. I'm okay with that.

[Sean Fennesee]

Have you seen Airheads?

[Amanda Davin]

Not in at least 20 years. I didn't revisit it for this.

[Sean Fennesee]

Now. I did love it. I did love it.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is a comedy about a rock band that takes a radio station hostage so that they will play their music on the radio. This is at a time when something called rock music was popular.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

Perhaps you've heard of it. Brendan Fraser, Steve Buscemi and Adam Sandler is the band. Joe Montana is the very famous disc jockey who's taken hostage incredibly deeply.

[Amanda Davin]

90S experience.

[Sean Fennesee]

Super 90s movie. I loved it in the 90s. Is it good? I can't recall.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

But I have warm feelings about it. Sandler, very funny as Pip. I'm not saying it's going in. I don't think it is.

[Amanda Davin]

But I'm going to do a yellow. That's fine.

[Sean Fennesee]

Are you cool with that?

[Amanda Davin]

I'm fine with that.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. Now the work begins.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

1994. Mixed nuts.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

What happened here?

[Amanda Davin]

I really don't know. And Nora Ephron did, and it's an absolute disaster. Speaking of just tones that completely do not match what's going on, it just got away from them. Sometimes that happens. You just don't got it. And I guess you keep coming. Coming to work every day is J.

[Sean Fennesee]

Kelly, Noah Baumbach's Mixed Nuts.

[Amanda Davin]

I don't know if that. Disastrous. No, it's not.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is a Christmas movie. Mixed Nuts. Yeah. And Sandler is like a pretty prominent role in the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. But it's just none of it makes any sense. And it's kind of like it's an ensemble.

[Sean Fennesee]

It is. His part is not that big.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. I have one more thing to nominate. In 1994.

[Sean Fennesee]

Fire away.

[Amanda Davin]

That is when the Hanukkah Song is first performed.

[Sean Fennesee]

So do you want to be putting these extra textual non film things in?

[Amanda Davin]

I Want to be putting either the Hanukkah song or the the album, which is the second studio album. The album is released in 1996. What the hell happened to me? I would do Hanukkah song standalone.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let's put it on the list and keep talking.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Because if I were putting things from the albums on Tollbooth Willie on. They're all gonna laugh at you.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is a banger.

[Amanda Davin]

Hanukkah is the festival of Lights.

[Sean Fennesee]

What about the Thanksgiving song? Did that not hit with you? That was the first one.

[Amanda Davin]

Do you know how many times I've heard the Hanukkah song? At least a thousand times.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think the Thanksgiving song is now overlooked.

[Amanda Davin]

Go gin and tonukkah and smoke your marijuana.

[Sean Fennesee]

You already did that part.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, but now I'm singing it.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's a breakup.

Okay, we'll put it on for now.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. Well, I mean, you can yell it if you want.

[Sean Fennesee]

Jack. 1994, the Hanukkah Song. Green. 1995. Billy Madison, Incredibly Green.

Yeah. What are the best 90s movie comedies?

[Amanda Davin]

Billy Madison, Happy Gilmore, Tommy Boy. Those are like the boy comedies.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you want to Wayne's World?

[Amanda Davin]

Sure. Though even that is like Bridge to Gen X. You know, not saying, like, it was like handed down to us.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

And we were like, this is cool.

And let's see.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm not talking. I mean, you know, like, it's clueless.

[Amanda Davin]

Wait, I mean, that's what I was gonna say. It's comedy. It's 95 Friday. That's. But. But you're just talking about. So Dumb and Dumber is another one.

[Sean Fennesee]

Absolutely.

[Amanda Davin]

For sure.

Yeah. Though that's 99 and like edging towards, hey, we're all grown up now. We're not being like purely stupid. If you just want to be stupid.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is this our draft for February?

[Amanda Davin]

Just stupid holiday.

[Sean Fennesee]

No 90s comedies.

[Amanda Davin]

90S comedies. I don't know. Has Christine enough?

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, you can start now. He's got three months. Start checking in. That could be. That's an interesting idea.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Billy Madison, of course, is a movie about the heir to a great fortune who needs to go back to school, starting in first grade and reacquire his education one week at a time. Super normal movie, very clear Presence, about a 26 year old man going to fourth grade.

It's fucking incredible. It's so funny. It's really like. There was just recently a documentary about James Downey, the SNL writer, and he of course features in this film as the principal trivia master and the fateful scene opposite Bradley Whitford in this movie. And I was reminded all over again that there's 10 or 12 moments of extremely special shit here. So yes, this movie is green.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

In 1996. Happy Gilmore. We're in a Happy Gilmore year. Happy Gilmore 2. Craig Horbeck's favorite movie of 2020 5. A film that lives on and saw the future in more ways than one about the future of golf. It's definitely going in this one, two punch. Obviously, big deal for Sandler. And neither of these movies were massive box office sensations, but they were huge video store and VHS movies.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And they were watched over and over again in dorm rooms and over and over again rented from video stores. And they kind of set him on his way now. 1996. Bulletproof.

So this is probably the first time I learned the heartbreak of a movie not living up to my expectations.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, this was it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think so.

[Amanda Davin]

Everything was gravy before, I think.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, I was 13. Sure, 13 turning 14.

[Amanda Davin]

Forrest Gump was everything you wanted it to be.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, I was 12 when that came out. What the fuck did I know? I was like, holy shit. The seventies. Who knew?

Bulletproof, directed by Ernest Dickerson, starring Damon Wayans and Adam Sandler as I guess, like an FBI agent and a criminal who are stuck together. It's kind of like a cheapo midnight run knockoff.

And Ernest Dickerson coming off of Juice. One of my favorite movies of all time. And Sandler and Wayans being two of the funniest people in the world. You know, Wayans had recently come off of In Living Color and Bless you.

[Amanda Davin]

Thank you.

[Sean Fennesee]

And this movie's not funny. It doesn't really work.

[Amanda Davin]

I don't know if I've seen it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. It's not going in.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

1998. The Wedding Singer.

[Amanda Davin]

Got you.

[Sean Fennesee]

Auto Green.

[Amanda Davin]

Auto Green.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think it's still really good. I did go back and look at it a little bit and you know, like all of these movies, these films don't have the best directors of all time. You know, it's a lot of people that are very comfortable with Sandlers mode of working and a lot of his friends, as you said before, not just in front of the camera, but behind the camera. And they're not Bergman esque in their work.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

So there's like some rickety stuff going on in terms of the setting and the mood of the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. This movie has. It should absolutely go in. And it's very funny. But this movie has always been a little annoying to me in that when you would ask men, oh, what's your favorite rom com? They'd all just be like, oh, the Wooding singer. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Adam Sandler is in it, you know, and you haven't seen another one, so it's important to bridge it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. The romantic stuff does work, though, between him and Drew Barrymore. They have actual chemistry. You want to see them together. It does ultimately come together, you know. But your point is. We'll take 1998. Dirty Work is a small role as Satan in this Norm MacDonald comedy. This is one of my favorite movies ever. We did this movie on the rewatchables, me and Bill. This is like a sick pod where me and Bill are just like quoting jokes from the movie. But RIP Norm MacDonald, who I love, who is a close friend of Sandler's. It's obviously not going in, but it's a very good cameo performance. 1998's the Waterboy. Now, this was an interesting confrontation with my taste because I don't like this movie at all. I don't think it's funny.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm not really like a hardcore down south college football person.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't really, Especially at this time. I didn't know that culture at all, being from New York. The voice didn't work, the accent. But this movie is a massive hit.

[Amanda Davin]

It's huge, and people love it.

[Sean Fennesee]

But I was on the outside on the reference. Yes, yes.

[Amanda Davin]

And I was living in the south as a. Among college football fans. At least I'm a reformed college football fan. So this was a big, big deal. I was very aware of it. It's not one of my favorites either. But culturally, I think we have to at least yellow it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I agree with you. There's definitely a case for going in just in terms of the importance in his career, because this is when he becomes like a big time movie star.

My feeling about it was always like, he just did Happy Gilmore. It's like we did a sports comedy two years ago about a guy with incredible skill who's kind of an idiot. Like, it just felt very repetitive and.

[Amanda Davin]

Less like we all know that Happy Gilmore is the one. But it did make a lot more.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, it just. He had gotten to a point, in part because of the Hanukkah song, you know, in part because of a handful of factors that, like, led to him getting bigger and bigger and bigger over time. 1999, Big Daddy.

[Amanda Davin]

Green.

I.

[Sean Fennesee]

Green. I don't. Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

You don't think there's room?

[Sean Fennesee]

No. I honestly haven't even gamed it out. This is one of the rare ones where I'm like, I'm just gonna go with the flow.

[Amanda Davin]

That's beautiful.

[Sean Fennesee]

Sandman.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. I know you just want to be here with me. I just want to live in it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I know. I just want to live in it. I like Big Daddy. I like Sandman. Going like, what if we made a movie that's more grounded in the real world? Right. Not as ridiculous. His performance is good. Some notes of drama in this movie, Right? Because of the relationship that he makes with the. Is it Dylan Sprouse, the actor who plays the.

[Amanda Davin]

Cole and Dylan Cole.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's right, the twins.

And they're very good together. I seem to recall Leslie Mann being smoking hot in this movie. Can't remember if that's true.

[Amanda Davin]

I don't think that's always the way.

[Sean Fennesee]

I like it. I like it.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't love it. Do you like it? Did you like it at the time?

[Amanda Davin]

I did. I mean, I think I just saw it laughed. I wasn't really overthinking it. I was, what, 15 at this point? So I like this one, and I do feel that it's lived on.

[Sean Fennesee]

I agree. Let's green it. Let's green Big Daddy.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. We don't. I mean, we can ungreen it if we have to.

[Sean Fennesee]

What do you think of Jon Stewart's dramatic performance in the film? Did it work? Jack, did you see that? Did you see Big Daddy? Jack? Okay. All right, then for Jack, we'll green it. There you go.

[Amanda Davin]

There we go.

[Sean Fennesee]

2000. Little Nicky.

[Amanda Davin]

Which one's this one?

[Sean Fennesee]

This is kind of like. Well, this is like Satan's Son and.

Come to Earth and he's got the hair over his face, and it's kind of like a post Limp Bizkit, like, shitcore United States energy. Some funny bits. It's bad.

[Amanda Davin]

I don't feel the. I remember it now, but no, it hasn't. Stayed with me.

[Sean Fennesee]

Redding. Little Nicky. I kind of like Little Nicky, even though it's bad. 2002, Punch Drunk Love. Green. That's a green. That's a green.

[Amanda Davin]

This is an amazing, amazing performance.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. Very exciting that Paul Thomas Anderson also loves all these movies that we're talking about and identified that he wanted to work with Sandler. He still loves Sandler. He talks about Sandler all the time.

[Amanda Davin]

And saw that the anger could be used in a different way, but that also that there is softness and different varieties of comedy that can be.

Manipulated. It's really, really smart.

[Sean Fennesee]

And the Movie's not that funny. It really is kind of a sad character study that becomes a romantic exploration of the collision of love and anger. Right. That's really his. The duality of the Sandler Persona. He's not that silly. He gets to do his little dance in the supermarket, and he has some charming moments.

[Amanda Davin]

And SnackWells.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, yeah. But you know, him yelling at Philip Seymour Hoffman through the phone. Intense stuff. You know, you're grabbing the front of the seat in front of you. Definitely going in. Punch Drunk Love 2002, Mr. Deeds. This is a soft reboot of a Frank Capra classic starring Winona Ryder. It's quite poor.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. It's a no.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. No, Mr. Deeds. 2002. Eight Crazy Nights, which is a kind of a riff on his Hanukkah song success.

[Amanda Davin]

Crazy Nights.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. An animated movie from the mind of Adam Sandler. Now, this is when you can see he's like.

He's like a moment.

[Amanda Davin]

He's become aware to the idea to the Adam Sandler brand.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, that he has fully put Happy Madison into work to expand who he's appealing to. That it's not just me drinking a Miller Light on a Friday with my friends in college. It is families. It is. He is starting to mature a little bit, going into his 30s and thinking about reaching more people. I think a Crazy Night's okay. It does have the great distinction of being one of the very few Hanukkah themed animated movies. And he's made more Hanukkah themed and Jewish themed movies over his career.

[Amanda Davin]

We already have five, so. And if we're doing anything eight Crazy Nights related, it'll be the Hanukkah song.

[Sean Fennesee]

I hear you. I just want to say a yellow to acknowledge the word.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. All right.

[Sean Fennesee]

2003, anger management.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Now he. Now, now. I don't love the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. But it's. It's iconic. But it is also that Jack Nicholson smile is. The meme is from Anger Management, right?

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

When he's the Zoom in. Yes.

Yeah. This one's directed by Peter Siegel, who he worked with a handful of times over the years. Sandler and directed one of the Naked Gun movies. He directed Tommy Boy. He's been at the center of some big comedy hits, and it was a huge success. I'd like to know what the box office of this movie was actually. Where is that in the document?

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

This movie made $200 million worldwide.

[Amanda Davin]

We used to live in a country, you know.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I mean, he has a few of these that we'll get to. I think. Yes. Because of the combination of pairing, identifying that Sandler and Nicholson are not as far apart as you would think. Okay. That their energy that their Personas as actors.

You think we should be yellowing this?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, I do, because we have some more stuff.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's not a movie that I love.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

50 first dates. Do you feel like. So this is another movie that people love?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, I've seen it many times.

[Sean Fennesee]

Very big hit.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure. And like I said, it is a.

[Sean Fennesee]

Duplication, a little bit of the Wedding Singer.

[Amanda Davin]

I agree. And it's like a useful thought exercise. I do feel like 50 First Dates has become a reference point outside of the movie, but.

We can yellow it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, well, yellow, 50 first dates, 2004, Spanglish. This is deep red. This is a black red. I don't get this movie.

[Amanda Davin]

So you. The story of the edibles and the watching Spanglish.

[Sean Fennesee]

I wasn't a part of that.

[Amanda Davin]

You were fine, and you were asleep.

[Sean Fennesee]

I. Here's the story.

Me, my wife, Chris Ryan and his wife went on a weekend vacation to a winery in California. We stayed in an inn, had a nice afternoon, trying wines. This is. Well before we had children and we could just drink all day.

[Amanda Davin]

This was before I moved to California.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. You were not living in California at.

[Amanda Davin]

The time, but I heard about it.

[Sean Fennesee]

And we had a nice, really nice day. Tried some jammies inside.

[Amanda Davin]

Phoebe and Eileen loved Jammy Zimmerman's for a while there.

[Sean Fennesee]

And at the end of the day, we decided to have some edibles. These were chocolate edibles, not gummies. And this was, I think, might have been maybe right at the dawning of the legalization of marijuana in California.

[Amanda Davin]

It was definitely before 2016, so it's a full decade ago plus.

[Sean Fennesee]

And we just. We just got hit fucking hard. We just got bulldozed by this chocolate.

[Amanda Davin]

And also, weren't you stay. Did you have an adjoining.

[Sean Fennesee]

We had a joining.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, it was like the bathroom.

[Sean Fennesee]

Right.

[Amanda Davin]

It was like his.

[Sean Fennesee]

And yeah, maybe they were next door. I don't. We were close by, but we basically, like, took the edible. And then we're like, all right, see you later. Like, we didn't hang out. We made a huge mistake.

[Amanda Davin]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, and it hit me really hard. And it hit Phoebe really hard.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And then Phoebe and Chris decided to watch Spanish. I guess they watched the whole movie while Phoebe was, like, tripping the light fantastic.

[Amanda Davin]

I also always imagine her doing the Leo and Wolf of Wall Street.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, I was more just like. I was asleep, but whilst asleep, I was in the fifth dimension. I was like, what did you find there? I couldn't move any of my limbs and I couldn't figure out why. Like it was paralysis but isn't incredible psychotronic energy in my mind.

[Amanda Davin]

You sleep like Superman, you said. I only recently learned that you sleep with your arms by your side.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, I do sleep like Superman.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, ye can. But normally you can move your limbs.

[Sean Fennesee]

Sure. You can roll over. I'll sleep on my side a little bit sometime, you know, like. Like I had no, I couldn't. It's like the circulation in my body stopped.

[Amanda Davin]

That is frightening.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know what I mean?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Anyway, Spanglish, the James L. Brooks film built around what, a 20 year runi. Yeah, James L. Brooks, one of the great movie writers of all time, kind of hit a speed bump in 2004 and it really hasn't recovered as a movie maker, unfortunately. Great mind, but this movie is just like really, really sour. And the te Leone character is like really unfortunate. And I don't think it's. It's another example of like Sandler trying something and working with a really talented person. So I respect that he did it, but it didn't turn out.

[Amanda Davin]

This episode of the Big Picture is brought to you by State Farm. Having people in your corner to help you makes all the difference. For example, I'm usually loathe to trust Sean and his movie recommendations, but after many months of him waxing rhapsodic about train dreams, I finally watched it. And I have to be honest, he was right. It was wonderful.

[Sean Fennesee]

And like those people, State Farm is there to help you feel supported by helping you choose the coverage you need. Go [e-mail] or use the award winning app to get help from one of their local agents. Like a good neighbor, State farm is there.

2005 the longest yard. No.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Dead. No. This movie did not need to be remade. I don't like it. It's not interesting to me. So no. 2006. Click.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, I just googled this and it's Adam Sandler posing with a remote control, much like my younger son, almost every day.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. So this is a movie about a guy who.

Struggling with life and meets an inventor and the inventor gives him a remote control that allows him to skip the boring parts of life. Sandler. The movie's not great. It's kind of sweet and very saccharine and has some funny stuff. He's married to Kate Beckinsale in the movie. Makes sense.

But it's another example of him consistently Doing these Capra esque comedies with not Capra esque filmmakers where the idea on paper is an interesting exploration of.

The emptiness at a certain stage of life. You know, he's actually kind of interested in these bigger ideas, but they always manifest in these goofball movies. So I would say Click, even though it was also a monstrous hit, is not going in. Do you agree with that?

[Amanda Davin]

No, I agree. Does Alice ask to fast forward through parts of movies she doesn't like? At this point this has become a real issue in my heart.

[Sean Fennesee]

We learned how to start hiding when something is happening on screen that we don't like, we don't fast forward.

[Amanda Davin]

You know, it's not always because of fear. It's just because there's been a.

[Sean Fennesee]

Like boredom.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. Or I want the next thing or I want this part. I mean, obviously we don't do it either. But the impulse is an interesting indication of human nature.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, maybe here and there, but not too often. Click made $237 million worldwide.

[Amanda Davin]

2006 was a different time.

[Sean Fennesee]

That is the seventh highest grossing movie of his career.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Some people would make the case that a movie like this should go in one of these high concept movies in the mid-2000s when things were still fine in Hollywood.

[Amanda Davin]

Right. But we've got higher live action ones.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. You're saving space for Reign Over Me, which is the post 911 Mike Binder comedy about a guy who's lost his family and is trying to reconnect. Starring Sandler and Don Cheadle. Noble effort. Another movie that I appreciate that he tried to make this film. His performance is not bad as like a deeply depressed person who is recessed, but it's not going anywhere.

[Amanda Davin]

I think I watched this on vacation with my mother once because this was like, this was before you know, the world at your fingertips and you couldn't travel with your Apple TV or whatever and then you were just stuck with what was ever what was on tv.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay.

[Amanda Davin]

It's really not an enjoyable experience.

[Sean Fennesee]

Not going in. I have to be honest, guys. We have built hall of fames for living legends like Robert Redford, Paul Newman. I have never been more overwhelmed looking at a Google Doc before being like, how the fuck are we going to get this down to 10 movies?

[Amanda Davin]

We will, we will, we'll do it. We can make decisions.

[Sean Fennesee]

Are you about to stump for I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry. I mean he's got a lot of movies that are not going in. There are literally like a dozen more that I could make. Yellow That's. That's generational. That is generational. So. And I'm comfortable with that. I would love to have that encounter because I. I don't really care as much about some of the late 2000s, early 2000s movies, but I know that they're very important to a lot of generations in part because of Bill and his family. They fucking love those movies, so we'll get to them. Reign over me is red. I now pronounce you Chuck and Larry, which I just don't think is very funny. It's opposite him and Kevin James. And Kevin James increasingly becomes a bigger part of his world. And Adam Sandler produces a lot of Kevin James movies as well. And I never found Kevin James all that funny. Even though the pride of Queens and a Mets fan and in theory, somebody who I'm in league with, but I'm just not. I just don't think he's funny. So that movie's out. This is a movie about where two guys need to pretend that they're a gay couple so that they can get a special dispensation in their life.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. It's best left in 2007. Agreed on all fronts.

[Sean Fennesee]

You don't mess with the Zohan. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

I was surprised by how much money this made. When you. When looking at the box, how much did it make? Well, I scrolled down, but this is. It made $100 million domestic, $202 million worldwide.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is a movie about.

An Israeli super soldier who wants to be a hairstylist.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And then does.

That's the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Follow your dreams.

[Sean Fennesee]

Emmanuel Shriky as the female lead. And at a time right in the heart of the Entourage times.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

That worked very well. You know, I remember very specifically Judd Apatow having a strong producing role in this movie and this being kind of situated with the 40 year old virgin knocked up era of films. We'll come back to Judd Apatow shortly. Yeah, this was always in the like super high concept, super silly realm that I never loved, but Moby was a huge hit. I say red. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Hard red.

[Sean Fennesee]

Jack. Any. Any problems with that? With you don't mess with the Zohan? Yeah, definitely. No problems on that one. Okay. Are you about to make a case for bedtime stories? You could convince me.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, and this is a very sweet movie. And I. I assume you must have been, what, nine years old when this movie came out? Seven years old. Seven years old.

[Amanda Davin]

It's worse when we.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, you don't want to hear it in that Context? Yeah.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, it's definitely not good, you know, but it's just right time, right place, right age, I think. Is this the movie that Adam Shenkman made right after Hairspray? I think. I think it is. It might have been right before Hairspray, but this is a movie about a handyman who finds out that the stories that he's telling his. I think it's his nephew and his niece are true. And that then we see in the world that he's able to. He has this, like, power.

[Amanda Davin]

It's the power of stories. Yeah, we're all storytellers.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you see yourself as a storyteller?

[Amanda Davin]

I really don't.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you think you're a good storyteller?

[Amanda Davin]

Yes. Like, when I'm in my groove, you know, when it's a performance, I don't know. We're all still waiting.

[Sean Fennesee]

You want to make a case for it? Jack, is there anything you want to say? No, not actually. Is it just a sentimental fave? No, it's not even specific to this movie. I'm just looking at this Google Doc, and there's so many movies I've probably seen, like, 20 times. This is your childhood.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, I get it. I was in my mid-20s at this time, so it was not as fertile ground for bedtime stories. That's red 2009, funny people. I believe this movie has made a pretty strong comeback in terms of being not just underrated, but actually quite good. And even though it is still a bit long, which is one of its biggest criticisms when it came out, that it's one of Apatow's best movies. Is it his best movie?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't. No, I don't think so. Some of the earlier ones are more complete.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know what movie this movie reminds me of? J. Kelly.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, but it's a little more even in tone. It's too long, but I understand what it's going for. This is really good. I would be fine with it as a green.

[Sean Fennesee]

My instinct would be green because it's a very, very good performance. He and Seth Rogen are terrific together. Sandler plays an established comedian who has brought on a younger comedian to help write for him. And then we see kind of both sides of their lives and some of the emptiness. They both have some of the things that are great about their lives. Big, expansive cast, some crazy stuff going on with Leslie Mann and Eric Bana in this movie.

Aubrey Plaza, Jason Schwartzman, Aziz. A lot of really funny people in the movie.

[Amanda Davin]

And pretty early in the moments for all of those people.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. And the great cameo stuff at the party at the beginning with Eminem. There's a lot of really good moments in this movie, and it does have, like, a strong. It weirdly has strong critical support. I don't know if it's rewatched that much. I'd like to go back to it, actually. I guess I would yellow it, but with an inclination to make it green.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Grownups.

[Amanda Davin]

I mean, that's the. It's the fourth highest grossing. Or is. Did it gross more than Grownups too? Yes, Grownups did outgrow Grownups too.

[Sean Fennesee]

Wow. A wicked, wicked for good situation. Sheesh.

[Amanda Davin]

It is the highest grossing live action human movie. With all respect to Dracula, I would say. Is Dracula human?

[Sean Fennesee]

He was.

[Amanda Davin]

Right. But his soul is gone in Hotel Transylvania.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, he was.

[Amanda Davin]

He's a vampire now, but so. But Hotel Transylvania doesn't try to humanize him.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, there's humanizing and then there's the corporeal form.

[Amanda Davin]

Talking about humanizing.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, he's like a. He's a dad working on things.

[Amanda Davin]

There you go.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, he's kind of a Bob Ferguson.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Grownups would be an acknowledgment of success.

Do you want that to be the representation of this guy? Even in 2010, as things were starting to go deeply into franchises and the whole business was shifting and comedy was starting to go out of fashion at this point, that this guy could still draw hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office just by goofing off with his buddies.

[Amanda Davin]

I. I guess, though I. 2003 is earlier.

But I think I would rather that be anger management. Yes, anger management. As the.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let's yellow grownups and keep the conversation moving. Okay, 2011. Just go with it.

[Amanda Davin]

This is Jennifer Aniston. Yes, I know. This is big for a lot of people. It's never really been huge for me.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's not for me either. Is this your favorite movie of all time, Jack? Brooklyn Decker was deeply important to me at times. Well, yeah, there's that. Yeah, of course we do remember the beach sequences from the film. And congratulations to her on all her success.

And congratulations to Andy Roddick, I was gonna say.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

I never thought this movie was funny, but families love it. And I wonder if, like, eight years from now, me, Eileen and Alice sit down on the couch and fire up. Just go with it. And we're like, I know. I get it. I see it all happening now. I guess I'm just not really in the family comedy era of my life. Back Then. Yeah. So in my hall of Fame. I wouldn't put it in.

[Amanda Davin]

That's fine with me.

[Sean Fennesee]

Jack and Jill is going in some other bizarro world hall of Fame. The dumbest movie alive. Fame hall of Fame.

[Amanda Davin]

It's a hard no.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. That's my boy. Do you remember this one?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is the one where Adam. Andy Samberg plays his son in an uncanny bit of casting.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And I think Andy Samberg is getting married and his father and he have a complicated relationship.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

And it's like 47% of a good movie and never quite gets to where I wanted it to go. So my instinct is to say red.

[Amanda Davin]

I think that this is going to be a red.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. Having just watched Hotel Transylvania.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Speaking on it. I don't really like it that much.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

And while I do think it is important to his career and it was a smart move on his part, I'm sure he gets to benefit greatly from having a producing role in these movies and them being such enormous successes and him bringing all of his friends in to do voices and, you know, kind of leveraging all of that.

[Amanda Davin]

Seems like a grand old time, but it doesn't need to go in the hall of Fame.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's red. Grown Ups 2 is also red.

[Amanda Davin]

Correct.

[Sean Fennesee]

Blended.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. I saw this in. I. Maybe I went to a screening. Maybe I didn't actually see it in theaters, but I. I didn't have a great time.

[Sean Fennesee]

What do you remember about it?

[Amanda Davin]

I. I remember it being not particularly.

Culturally sensitive.

[Sean Fennesee]

I remember that as well.

[Amanda Davin]

And I. And I remember.

That there were some animals, but I don't remember if they were real or CGI'd.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. This is. Sandler and Drew Barrymore go to South Africa and they encounter some cultural stereotypes.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure. Yeah. But not Rosamund Pike.

[Sean Fennesee]

Very popular movie. Very successful movie.

How much did this movie make? Yeah. Made $127 million in 2014.

Pretty incredible. Blended not going in top five. He shows up very briefly as himself in the movie with his movie directed by his buddy Chris Rock, your dad's favorite movie of that year. As I recall.

[Amanda Davin]

He did want it to win the Oscar.

[Sean Fennesee]

Alas, it didn't happen. 2014 men, women and Children, a risible drama by Jason Reitman that I think is very well intentioned. Very well intentioned.

[Amanda Davin]

Aren't they all?

[Sean Fennesee]

They are. This is a movie about how computer bad. Don't look at computer. It bad. And it is bad. And the movie's ideas are not wrong. The manner in which they are delivered is Quite poor. So men, women and children will not be going in.

[Amanda Davin]

Alcourt is in this movie. I didn't remember that.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's a pretty stacked cast, as I recall. Who else is in it? Is it Kathryn Keener?

[Amanda Davin]

Jennifer Garner? Rosemary DeWitt? The legend.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Caitlyn Beaver.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh. Timothee Chalamet's film debut. Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Emma Thompson's in this movie. She's the narrator.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Doesn't really work. Not going in. I like that he tried. I also like that he tried the Cobbler.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is yet another of the Capra esque films that he has attempted. This is the film that immediately precedes Spotlight from director Tom McCarthy.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

And he was just, you know, in range.

[Amanda Davin]

That's right. So it went the Cobbler. Spotlight.

Stillwater.

[Sean Fennesee]

No, there's something in between those.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. I also recently found a Tom McCarthy novel just floating around our house.

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, does he write books as well?

[Amanda Davin]

I think so. I think it's the same.

[Sean Fennesee]

He also made a movie called Timmy Mistakes Were Made for the Disney Channel.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

And Then Stillwater in 2021.

Interesting career. You know, the Station Agent and the Visitor, two of the best independent dramas of their time in the early 2000s. Spotlight. Terrific movie.

[Amanda Davin]

One of my favorites. Maybe it's a different Tom McCarthy, but I've always assumed it was him because, you know, he has range.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. The Cobbler is about a magical cobbler.

He finds a magical sewing machine is really what happens. And it's a sewing machine. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

It's like a shoe machine.

[Sean Fennesee]

A shoe making sewing machine that allows him to stitch together new shoes that he can try on and walk in other people's feet.

[Amanda Davin]

Right, sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

See the world through their eyes.

[Amanda Davin]

It was then that I carried you. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, it's not really a Christ like story, I don't think. I don't think it's allegorically Judeo Christian. Are you sure? I'm not entirely sure.

And you know Adam Sandler is Jewish, of course.

[Amanda Davin]

Carpenters, you know.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Stitching materials.

[Sean Fennesee]

Together, you might be onto something. Yeah. And together we have woven the fabric of humanity. The cobbler is red.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

2015 pixels. This is a movie about video games coming into the real world to crush people.

[Amanda Davin]

See, I told you.

[Sean Fennesee]

Did you see this one? No. This is like a big action comedy.

[Amanda Davin]

I didn't see this.

[Sean Fennesee]

It was very successful. Jack's nodding his head. No.

I remember being very poorly reviewed. It did in fact make $244 million.

[Amanda Davin]

Directed by Chris Columbus.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

Starring Adam Sandler. Kevin James, Michelle Monahan, Peter Dinklage, Josh Gad and Brian Cox.

[Sean Fennesee]

Michelle Monahan. God, he's so good at female co leads. Really love what he's up to there. Pixel's not going in. Chris Columbus apparently directing Gremlins 3. Your thoughts?

[Amanda Davin]

What is the last thing that Chris Columbus directed?

[Sean Fennesee]

The Santa Claus Chronicles 2? No, I think that is what he did. I think that.

[Amanda Davin]

No, it was. It wasn't it?

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, no. The Thursday Murder Club.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

I'm sorry. It's okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Months three coming soon. Hotel Transylvania two. Also 2015. Not going in.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

The ridiculous six. Now, of course, a consequential movie. One of the most significant movies with regard to what we've been discussing this week about Netflix, because Adam Sandler signing onto Netflix in a way legitimized the moviemaking operation in the same way that the House of Cards TV initiative legitimized their TV operation. Ridiculous 6 was huge. Most of his movies on the service have been huge. He draws a crowd. We've been talking about what a huge commercial artist he is. And I think this movie is really unfunny and one of his least successful comedies. But it was big time when it hit and it was the first time.

[Amanda Davin]

I think it was a thing.

[Sean Fennesee]

Was it the first time, though, that it was like.

A straight to streaming movie was a huge hit.

You know what I mean?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. I mean, I'm trying to remember if there are any other.

[Sean Fennesee]

Like there obviously were cable movies before this, right? And there were prestige plays coming in the aftermath of this for Netflix, but a pure streaming play movie that you could quantifiably say had millions of viewers. Yeah, it could be. And in that way it's very important.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, so the Netflix films in old are the very first. Can you name it?

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes, it's the Idris Elba film Beasts of no Nation.

[Amanda Davin]

Correct.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

And then Ridiculous 6 was second, so. And Beast of no Nation was October 2015 and Ridiculous 6 was December. So I think they were like, here's your awards play and here's your Adam Sandler movie at once.

[Sean Fennesee]

Smart company, man. This is what I'm saying. I don't think this should go in. And in fact, this film's existence actually pierced my soul. But I just wanted to note that 2016, the do over. I don't remember this one.

[Amanda Davin]

I don't either.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is also a straight to streaming movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Do Over. No, the do over la, that's not what I want.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is this. Him and Chris Rock are the fathers of potentially of two kids who Are getting married.

[Amanda Davin]

No, this is an accident. David Spade and Adam Sandler fake their deaths in order to start their lives all over.

[Noah Baumbach]

Wow.

[Sean Fennesee]

We should do that. 2026, do you think would be mourned publicly. What do you think the reaction would be?

[Amanda Davin]

I think it depends on how we die.

[Sean Fennesee]

A dramatic boating accident on New Year's Eve.

Tracy Letts and CR Take.

[Amanda Davin]

We're going on a boat.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, we're going on a boat. Okay. That's exciting. Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

I think that, you know, like, they would build a Blu Ray shrine to you.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know they would.

[Amanda Davin]

That's beautiful.

[Sean Fennesee]

Where would it stay? Where would it exist?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't know. I hope it's publicly available.

[Sean Fennesee]

I want it to be at the top of Machu Picchu when you die.

[Amanda Davin]

I hope that the Sean Fennessy Memorial DVD closet is available to all 4K closet. No, I said DVD on purpose. I know it makes you mad. See, your little nostrils are flaring. I know. Blu Rays 4K i18.

[Sean Fennesee]

So no do over for me and you?

[Amanda Davin]

No.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you think we'll be more. I'm asking you a direct question about your legacy.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, but they're building you a little closet.

[Sean Fennesee]

But that's not the same. That's something you do out of a sense of. Of necessity. Will men and women quietly contemplate your.

[Amanda Davin]

Absence every time they make a Negroni? Yes, they will.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's beautiful. Okay, 2016, the do over out.

[Amanda Davin]

That's a great legacy. Honestly.

[Sean Fennesee]

Negronis, People drinking Negronis whilst thinking of you. Yeah, yeah, they're already doing that right now. 2017, Sandy Wexler. This is a movie about a talent manager. Kind of like an attempt to do a dopey Woody Allen style movie that is, I thought, very unfairly.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, I remember this. Yeah, I didn't like it as either.

[Sean Fennesee]

So that's a no. So, you know, the Netflix movies, by and large haven't been good. Except for 2017's The Meyerowitz Stories, which is wonderful. Great movie.

[Amanda Davin]

He's really good in it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Great singing. Dynamic stuff with Dustin Hoffman in this movie. Dynamic stuff with. What is the actress's name? Grace Van. Van.

[Amanda Davin]

I'm doing it. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Sean Fennesee]

Who plays his daughter Patton? Grace Van Patten. Yes. She's wonderful in this movie. They're very funny together. Them singing together is magic. A great bombach movie. A little underrated now. I feel like a little lost. It was his first Netflix movie.

[Amanda Davin]

I still think of the shot of Emma Thompson that's just from out the doorway. And it's Emma Thompson driving the background, the car straight into the lawn.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Really good. I love this movie. I think this movie's so good. Were we even doing the show? We weren't doing the show in this movie.

[Amanda Davin]

It was, like, right around when it was starting. It's great.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't know if it's like a legendary movie, but I would at least yellow it. Yeah. Yellow it. Okay. 2018, I believe the week of is the movie with him and Chris Rock where they are the fathers of impending bride and groom.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure. And it's the week of the wedding.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

And it's not funny.

[Amanda Davin]

No.

[Sean Fennesee]

Another movie that on paper, I'm like, chris Rock and Adam Sandler are in this.

[Amanda Davin]

Your wedding rule. This ends with the wedding as opposed to starting with the wedding. Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. Not like Hotel Transylvania, which starts with a wedding. Hotel Transylvania 3. No.

[Amanda Davin]

Summer vacation.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Where is their summer vacation?

[Sean Fennesee]

Tulum. That's why I went bad. 2019 murder mystery. You liked it?

[Amanda Davin]

I chuckled. I liked that they did it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. We've now entered big picture territory, where we've been covering these films.

[Amanda Davin]

I'll never forget when this trailer debuted, but my husband, who does not look at the Internet very much, sent it to me within 10 minutes and was like, we gotta watch this opening night, baby.

[Sean Fennesee]

Did he call you a baby in the text?

[Amanda Davin]

No, but it was like the same voice that he used when we went to see. Oh, God, what trailer was it when he was like, we gotta see that in imax. I can't remember. He's just like, this is really. This is the big time.

[Sean Fennesee]

Was it Zone of Interest? What was it?

[Amanda Davin]

No, it was a trailer before Guardians of the Galaxy 3, so I don't really remember. Anyway, I liked that they did it. I chuckled. Huge hit.

[Sean Fennesee]

Also not very good.

[Amanda Davin]

Filmed in the Mediterranean, so that was cool.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I like movies like this, and I don't love this one, so I'm gonna say Murder Mysteries 2019.

[Amanda Davin]

Also, the original Knives out certainly was right.

[Sean Fennesee]

Which is kind of blotted out by that film, which was doing the detective story battle.

[Amanda Davin]

And then Knives out went to Netflix and then.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's right.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And then so did we. And so did everybody else.

2019 uncut gems.

[Amanda Davin]

Green, green, green. This movie rules.

[Sean Fennesee]

An incredible film, an incredible performance. Howard Ratner, a gambler who doesn't know when to quit, who's on a quest for greatness and a quest for success that is unattainable, but that does not stem his ambition.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And if you haven't seen it, you should watch it.

[Amanda Davin]

You really should.

[Sean Fennesee]

Really, really good. It's kind of crazy to look back and think that this movie was not recognized. You know, it was successful at the box office and is obviously like a legendary movie now. Like it's a huge beyond cult classic. People love this movie. But 2019 was so competitive that it just kind of missed on a lot of the more like hallowed award season stuff.

[Amanda Davin]

Right. Though it did make it into best picture.

[Sean Fennesee]

Did it?

[Amanda Davin]

I think so. It was like one of the. Did it not or did it just.

[Sean Fennesee]

Get screened screen because he didn't get nominated.

[Amanda Davin]

I really. Well, because I have 10. But I remember that there was no.

[Sean Fennesee]

Uncut Gen 0 Oscars. No, it didn't.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, right.

I don't remember what I'm remembering that year.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, I remember being disappointed by that. No, obviously the movie. I was at the Telluride premiere of this movie and all the 65 year olds were like, what in God's name is this? This is unacceptable. This energy in this film. We've now come to accept the Safdie energy as like more common part of our move. Our film grammar, I guess. But uncut gems is automatically in 2020. Hubie Halloween.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

I loved it. It's not good. It's not good.

[Amanda Davin]

But you love it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I loved it.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. You love Halloween.

[Sean Fennesee]

I love Halloween. Yeah, I love Halloween. I love Halloween.

[Amanda Davin]

I mean, this is why, like I like a murder mystery. So I like murder mystery. And you liked Hubie Halloween.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's fine. We can say Hubie Halloween is red. Yeah, I love it. I can't wait to share it with my family. 2023 hustle. Interesting one.

[Amanda Davin]

I liked this.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is a good movie.

[Amanda Davin]

It is good.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's a movie about an NBA scout who's leveraging his entire career on a foreign born player, a European player, and the journey that they go on together to try to bring him to the NBA.

[Amanda Davin]

To the Philadelphia 76ers.

[Sean Fennesee]

Right. That's right. Very, very good performance. Fun movie that kind of. With a lot of real life NBA figures. Most notably Anthony Edwards, who's very good in the movie Yellow.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, we should revisit it for sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

Murder mystery two auto green.

No, that's going red. 2023. You are so not invited to my bat mitzvah where he plays the father, I believe the father of the lead, which is in fact his daughter. Is it Sadie Sandler? Is she the star of the film? I think it's Sadie Sandler.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, Several of them, yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

His daughters and his wife have now appeared in many of his films over the last five or six. Six years. This is a cute comedy. Obviously it's not a Sandler classic or anything like that, but he is very much.

Would you say it's using Nepo for good?

It feels very self contained, so it doesn't feel as, like, annoying.

[Amanda Davin]

I think it's. Yes. You know what I mean. It's a great life thesis statement, which is use your success to do things you want to do with the people that you love.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm with you.

[Amanda Davin]

It's amazing.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well put.

[Amanda Davin]

We should all be like him.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. And you are so not invited to my Bat mitzvah. Is red 2023 Leo, an animated film in which he plays a turtle.

[Amanda Davin]

So Sadie and Sunny are in the film, but it's Sunny who plays Stacy who's preparing for the Batman.

[Sean Fennesee]

She's the star. Okay, got it. Leo, did you see Leo show Knox? Leo?

[Amanda Davin]

No.

[Sean Fennesee]

Animated movie. Not bad.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Not bad. It's red, though.

[Amanda Davin]

Leo is. What kind of a lizard?

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, he's a lizard. I thought he was a turtle. My mistake. Leo the lizard is logical, actually.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay. Leo, the tuata. Tuatara. Tuatara. It's a species of reptile endemic to New Zealand. Despite its close resemblance to lizards, it is the only extant member of a distinct lineage. Well, I am not gonna. Anyway. Lizard esque, but not a lizard. It's its own thing.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay.

[Amanda Davin]

Thank you, Wikipedia, for all that you do.

[Sean Fennesee]

We've only got three more films to talk about. I just remembered Edwin Diaz and I'm just upset all over again. I was having a great time. This has been a very funny podcast and I got depressed again.

[Amanda Davin]

You didn't want to learn about the. You know, the.

[Sean Fennesee]

No, you should show it to your son. Show it to your son and teach him.

[Amanda Davin]

Leo.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

Leo is the most beloved, stuffy of. Sigh. Younger son. But Leo is a gondolier cat from Venice.

[Sean Fennesee]

A gondolier cat from Venice?

[Amanda Davin]

Well, like I bought him in Venice. He's a gondolier cat. He has a little hat.

[Sean Fennesee]

Understood.

[Amanda Davin]

It's tough now, though, because we gotta get a replacement because Leo's so beloved. But the tariff situation, it's really. It's not ideal.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'll stitch a new one. Handcrafted. Be like the cobbler, but for gondolier cats.

[Amanda Davin]

Lovely little striped shirt. Because he's a gondolier cat.

[Sean Fennesee]

Sure. Yeah. As one does. That's nice. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Just like choosing a movie to stream, State Farm has options to choose from to help you find coverage that best fits your needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. 2024 spaceman. I spoke of this film earlier. Not a success. Not going in the hall of fame.

[Amanda Davin]

Red.

[Sean Fennesee]

2025, Happy Gilmore 2. The smash sensation of the year on Netflix.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. We're handing our vote out to Craig Horlbeck.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes. Not going in.

[Amanda Davin]

No.

[Sean Fennesee]

2025 Jake Kelly. Now, it seems like you don't. You're not feeling it.

[Amanda Davin]

I'm not totally feeling it, but you really identified with this.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, what if it gets him his first Oscar nomination? Is my question for you? Because he's not been nominated. Now, I'm not saying he will, but I think he will. If I had to take bets, I would say he's getting in that fifth spot now. He's competing with Jacob Elordi and Paul Mescal.

[Amanda Davin]

Oh, for the spot.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yes.

[Amanda Davin]

Hmm.

[Sean Fennesee]

Challenging.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes. And there are six spots at the Golden Globes and only five at the Oscars, so that's correct. He's. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. But sure, if you want to do it, I don't mind.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, let's yellow it so that we can further this.

[Amanda Davin]

You do that. We can do that for you. And the Hanukkah song for me.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'll give you the Hanukkah song no matter what. I think it's a great idea.

[Amanda Davin]

Great. Thank you.

[Sean Fennesee]

Let's Go back through our list now. We've got currently 2, 4, 6, 7 greens. We've got 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 yellows.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes.

[Sean Fennesee]

Jack, any extraordinary eliminations that you don't feel comfortable with here? Grown Ups is very personal to me. I'm also shocked Meyerowitz Stories was yellow and otter green. Well, I think it's great. I don't know if it's legendary.

[Amanda Davin]

I also don't think we can do two Bombasts.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's a very good point. But we have so much of the other stuff, too, that is somewhat duplicated.

[Amanda Davin]

Well, that's because we are old and this was our childhood. And it's still us making the list.

[Sean Fennesee]

Right. There's not a strong case for Billy Madison and Happy Gilmore. Except we like them both. Right. Like they kind of represent the same thing. Yeah, but they're just both great. If I had to pound the pavement, it would be for grownups. For me personally, it's interesting. I mean, I'm very open minded to that idea because the movie is so.

[Amanda Davin]

Big, you can't, ah, vote.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah.

[Amanda Davin]

You just can't take off the most important cinematic texts of the mid-90s.

[Sean Fennesee]

You can't take off. Which I'm not advocating for, for the record.

[Amanda Davin]

All right. But Grown Ups is green, so that's eight greens.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay. I'm going to take off Airheads as a starting point. Right, Airheads. A lot of fun.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Put it on 4K. I'll buy it.

[Amanda Davin]

Take out Waterboy. Because we don't have passion for it and this era is represented quite well.

[Sean Fennesee]

I agree. We'll get a little pushback on that. Don't care. Eight crazy nights. I don't think we need it, considering what we're navigating here. Now comes the hard work. My first instinct is that Hustle comes off based on what we have left here. I would agree with that. You know what, Jack?

[Amanda Davin]

You don't have to say it quite like that. We had a nice time watching Hustle.

[Sean Fennesee]

I like Hustle.

[Amanda Davin]

The struggle of Philadelphia sports is one that I live every day.

[Sean Fennesee]

I totally understand. I understand. I'm just saying comparable.

[Amanda Davin]

This has been a Mets forward podcast, but let me tell you, it has not been great for the last 24 hours in the city of Philadelphia with respect to sports, but also probably.

[Sean Fennesee]

So you're strongly pushing for Hustle?

[Amanda Davin]

No, I just. I thought you were a little dismissive.

[Sean Fennesee]

I apologize.

[Amanda Davin]

We had a nice time. Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Hustle's coming off.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, so that leaves us with 2, 4, 6, 8 greens. And 2, 4, 5 yellows. Okay, now we gotta make a choice between Meyerowitz stories and J. Kelly.

[Noah Baumbach]

Then.

[Sean Fennesee]

Will it be foolish if J. Kelly becomes his Oscar nomination and it's not here. It doesn't. I'm not saying it would. I'm just asking the question.

[Amanda Davin]

Maybe.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay.

[Amanda Davin]

And you feel strongly about it, so I like it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I just. I like it.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay, then that's. Then I'm okay with that. I really like Meyerowitz stories too, but I.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, what's the better performance? You think it's Meyerowitz?

[Amanda Davin]

I think he has more to do in Meyerowitz personally.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, let's make it Meyerowitz.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

J. Kelly's coming off. Yeah, we reserve the right to rehaul.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, we reserve the right to do whatever we want at any time.

[Sean Fennesee]

Anger Management and 50 First Dates. Does anger management go? Because we put grownups in?

[Amanda Davin]

Grownups in. I think so, yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

They are different. They are different phases. But they do represent, like an incredible kind of success, like a movie stardom that is rare. Anger management would be my preference as a movie. But I do agree with what Jack is saying, which is that Grown Ups is like a huge movie.

[Amanda Davin]

Right. There are sort of. There are several stepping stones here, which is, you know, the 90s era and then.

Starting.

Kind of in Big Daddy. Like, I guess Big Daddy and anger management are different and anger management is like a leveling up, but they are of an era of Sandler being like a broader big budget star.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, so you think Big Daddy is doing the work that anger management does?

[Amanda Davin]

I think it's not a one to one, but we're close enough. And then Grownups represents a totally different.

[Sean Fennesee]

Box office fair of success of dad family focused stuff that is also filling in for blended and for just go with it and for bedtime stories and pixels and all those movies. That's what Grown Ups accomplishes. So then we would take anger management off and then a blood feud between 50 First Dates and Funny People. So the better movie by far is Funny People, but if you polled the people of America.

50 first dates is borderline canonical. It is, like, considered one of the last great studio rom coms.

[Amanda Davin]

When has polling the people of America worked out for us?

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, when you put it in that context? Well, right now we've got extraordinary disapproval on some significant figures in the world, I guess.

[Amanda Davin]

When has the electoral college poll ever worked out?

[Sean Fennesee]

We don't use that system here on the show.

[Amanda Davin]

That's fair enough.

[Sean Fennesee]

We each vote counts individually. Yours, mine and Jack's Sometimes.

[Amanda Davin]

Uh, remember watching 50 First Dates after my college boyfriend graduated from college?

[Sean Fennesee]

What do you think he's doing right now?

[Amanda Davin]

Uh, I got an update, like, fairly recently.

[Sean Fennesee]

Oh, you answered my question. Seriously.

[Amanda Davin]

But I. I think he's. Well, I don't know. Like, I don't.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is he a cobbler? What does he do?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, a magical cobbler. And also a storyteller. Um, anyway, I remember I have some.

[Sean Fennesee]

Stories to tell about you.

[Amanda Davin]

I remember some sobbing because, like, we were breaking up because he graduated, you know, but then.

[Sean Fennesee]

Then, obviously, like, you were sobbing or he was sobbing.

[Amanda Davin]

I was. During. While watching 50 First Dates. He had already graduated.

[Sean Fennesee]

Was he a big crier as well?

[Amanda Davin]

I don't think so.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, what do you think about a man crying? That attractive? Is it a sign of weakness?

[Amanda Davin]

I think you know that I will never forget you crying while watching Avatar the Way of Water is what I think that was.

[Sean Fennesee]

I've been told that's the sexiest thing anyone's done on a podcast in 2025. Someone told me that's my face.

[Amanda Davin]

Can you name three of the family members?

[Sean Fennesee]

Of course I can.

[Amanda Davin]

That is not Jake Sully.

[Sean Fennesee]

Sure. Kiri.

[Amanda Davin]

Uh huh.

[Sean Fennesee]

Um.

Uh, yeah. What's Lo'?

[Amanda Davin]

Ak?

[Sean Fennesee]

Lo'. Ak.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And Neytiri.

[Amanda Davin]

There you go. I'm glad I didn't offer you to Venmo.

[Sean Fennesee]

This is what I. I mean, that's.

[Amanda Davin]

A layup for me. You know, there's a thing on Jam session where I keep offering to Venmo Juliet $100 if she can tell me role model's real legal name. Can you do it without Googling right now?

[Sean Fennesee]

Who?

[Amanda Davin]

Role model?

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't know who that is.

[Amanda Davin]

Who will be starring in the new Lena Dunham film with Mark Ruffalo and Natalie Portman?

[Sean Fennesee]

No idea who that is.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay, well, Role model. Yes. Of Sally. When the wine runs out. When the wine runs out.

[Sean Fennesee]

Literally no clue.

[Amanda Davin]

I was on SNL and then Charli xcx, she was the Sally for the snl and people were like, is this a Taylor Swift diss?

[Sean Fennesee]

I haven't seen it.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay, well, his real name. You will not be getting $100 via Venmo is Tucker Pillsbury.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's his real name?

[Amanda Davin]

As best I can verify. Like, I haven't seen the person.

[Sean Fennesee]

You haven't called the CIA.

[Amanda Davin]

I'm not asking for it. Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

Because Tucker Pillsbury.

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah. AKA Role Model.

[Sean Fennesee]

Okay, Role Model.

[Amanda Davin]

You will be podcasting about him in the next two years.

[Sean Fennesee]

Just so you know, that's a Frightening list of names that I don't yet know. The people I about on this show. 50 first dates versus funny people. Funny People. Okay, Funny People. I agree. Funny people. 50 first dates. It's adequately represented by the wonderful work that Drew Barrymore and Adam Sandler did together in the Wedding Ceremony.

[Amanda Davin]

Exactly. Which is also in our hall of fame.

[Sean Fennesee]

So here's our hall of fame right now for Adam Sandler. 1994, the Hanukkah Song, not a film. 1995, Billy Madison. 1996, Happy Gilmore. 98, the Wedding Singer in 1999. Big Daddy. 2002, Punch Drunk Love. 2009, Funny People. 2010, Grownups. 2017, the Meyerowitz Stories. 2019, Uncut Gems. Very millennial coded list here.

[Amanda Davin]

We are who we are.

[Sean Fennesee]

We are who we are. J. Kelly could come through.

[Amanda Davin]

Sure.

[Sean Fennesee]

And you would cut Meyerowitz or something else.

[Amanda Davin]

I think that, you know, if we're applying the 2025, 25 for 25 rules, that there's only one bomb back allowed.

[Sean Fennesee]

Got it.

Okay. Well, I think we've done Yeoman's work here.

[Amanda Davin]

Okay.

[Sean Fennesee]

And this has been a very cool podcast made by some cool people. Let's go now to my conversation with Noah Baumbach.

Noel Bombach, back on the show. It's been some years. Last time I saw you was in a hotel room. Now you're in a hotel room again, and I'm in my home. And I was thinking about your body of work, preparing for this. And I recently revisited the De Palma documentary because we talked about a De Palma movie on another podcast. And then this summer, I watched you get the Telluride tribute, and I know you've been getting tributes, and now you're kind of looking back on your career in the same way that the character in your film is. I'm wondering if you felt like you, how you're feeling about that. Did you manifest that? Was there any intentionality into all that?

No.

[Noah Baumbach]

It's probably a good marketing.

Idea, I guess.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't know.

[Noah Baumbach]

I, I, that wasn't mine.

No, I guess it's, you know, I'm, I'm over 50. So now, now we have, we get to look back. I've got, I've made a few movies.

[Sean Fennesee]

Do you like seeing that stuff? Do. When you're, when you're watching a tribute, do you feel happy, comfortable? Is it awkward.

[Noah Baumbach]

All of that? I think, I mean, it's, it's.

I feel.

Generally happy and proud and glad those movies are out there. And.

I think they all.

It's you know, when you see, like, the back to back in the clip reel, because it's, of course, you, when you're making them, you're not thinking them in any kind of, of.

Continuity with themselves. I mean, you're just sort of making the one that's.

You know, in front of you and, and so seeing it suddenly the way maybe somebody from the outside might see it, which is to, you know, kind of put things in context and think about how they relate to each other. I mean, it's.

I mean, it's interesting on a personal level, I suppose. And it's also.

[Sean Fennesee]

So.

[Noah Baumbach]

It'S also easier to talk about movies in the past than it is to talk about the movie that you're, you know, you're selling in the moment.

So conversations that I've had that are kind of more about the career in a way, are easier for me to have than they are to, like, talk about J. Kelly at this point. But.

Netflix wouldn't like it if I didn't talk about J. Kelly, so I have to do that. But.

But yeah, I mean, it's like this alternate version of myself that's out there. And I, I mean, because I also haven't seen the movies since they then, since I made them. So it's also kind of interesting because I have perceptions of them in my head that I, you know, they are like memories in that way. Like, I've reconstructed what they are, you know, And I.

Don'T know if actually my, like, how I might think a movie of mine plays or how I feel about it now. I don't know how much it actually.

Is, is connected to the actual movie anymore. I mean, it's like some combination of my experience making it, the, my memory of the movie, maybe what some people have said to me over the years. So it's, it's, it's interesting that way.

[Sean Fennesee]

But.

[Noah Baumbach]

But I feel very lucky and proud of the career.

[Sean Fennesee]

So you never go back and look at something that you, you made?

[Noah Baumbach]

No, only when I've had to do, like, Blu Rays or things like new versions of them. But, like, I've seen Squid again. I've seen Kicking Screaming again.

But the more recent ones, all of those sort of additions have essentially been made concurrent to the making of them. So then I, I, I've just sort of left them. I mean, I haven't, Yeah, I haven't seen.

Like, I haven't seen Margot at the Wedding and since almost 20 years, probably. And then I haven't seen.

Greenberg since it came out.

I mean, I, I've caught cl I mean, when, when TV was a thing, like when cable was a thing, like sometimes I, you know, I would bump into one or something, but that doesn't happen anymore. So when I see a clip reel, I get to see pieces of them.

[Sean Fennesee]

What about your kids? Curious. You have an older son, right?

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah. Well, he's just starting to, he's now seen.

The last couple. I mean, really just I guess White Noise. And J. Kelly, he's seen when they came out or as they're coming out or as I'm working on them.

But he hasn't seen so Barbie. He hasn't seen.

Really any of the movies yet of the earlier movies. So.

Partly because up until now I thought it'd just be better to wait.

And.

But.

You know, I think now he could, I mean, certainly somebody that, that would be, it'd be a good.

[Sean Fennesee]

Time for him to see probably almost kicking and screaming time for him arriving at these phases of life.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah, I feel like probably kicking, screaming, probably Francis or squid in the whale also because he's almost, he's really is the age of Jesse's character in that movie.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm curious about the arrival of this movie at this time for you. I have two curiosities about that. One is collaborating with Emily specifically. I know you've had co writers before, but never with her. And I was just curious how you worked together, especially having made so many films. She's made many films and TV over the years, but doing it for the first time, what that's like.

[Noah Baumbach]

It didn't feel, I mean, it was kind of, I suppose it was inherent in the fact that I asked her because I felt, felt very, I feel very comfortable with her. I mean, I, I, I've gotten to know her better over the last really few, I don't know, a few years, couple, three years. Because of white noise. Because her kids were in white noise. So I got to.

We were all in Ohio, you know, standing on some abandoned highway with a rain Tower at 4 in the morning. It's, you start to have conversations and things and, and, but I'd always liked her. I always liked her when I saw her.

I would see her at events and things and, and Sandro also. And I love her kids and I.

And I, I, you know, and then, I mean, I, I did love Doll and M, you know, when it was on. And, and I, I.

I don't have a really good reason. I really just liked, I felt.

Talking to her that we had a kind of good sort of thing going and, and it it, and when I started I told her a bit about what I was working on, which was became J. Kelly, but it was, it was the, the, I had several.

Things, you know, some that ended up in the movie, some that didn't and.

That I felt was like, was a movie and a movie that I was ready to kind of explore and do. And, and I liked how she talked about it and, and, and then I, I, I posted to her. But then I felt like, well, I said, I mean, if it doesn't work we can just stop, you know. But.

It was never a question. It was always just a really easeful and pleasurable and she's brilliant, she's so funny and so smart.

And brought a perspective to the movie that I wouldn't have brought.

[Sean Fennesee]

I was wondering how much the Barbie experience informed the writing of Jay and how far along you were on Jay before this. Because, I mean, just a global box office conquering thing. I assume that all felt very new to you given the massive success of that movie. And it's like a.

It'S a sensitive portrayal of a person who's lost touch with himself, but it's also, it's a very capital H Hollywood movie. And I don't think of your films in that way either.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah, I, I'm sure it did. I don't, I wasn't a conscious thing. I mean it, it had the, has the tone and the, the scope that I felt was right for the movie and for the story. So I, I, I wasn't, you know, consciously saying, oh, I want to make a broader, bigger movie or anything like that.

And I don't know how much relationship I even have to that if somebody says that, you know, like, I mean, I can understand it, but I don't, it wasn't, it wasn't a, anything, a goal in any way, but I'm sure it did, I'm sure. I mean, what I do know is the experience of being on the set of Barbie and working with Greta on it and watching.

The, the process because I, I mean White Noise was, was, I'm, I'm proud of the movie, but I, I didn't have a good time making it. It was just really difficult. And.

We were shooting in Covid and it was, it was.

That was a big part of it, but it was just, it was a very complicated movie and, and I think Barbie.

Kind of brought me back a little bit, you know, because I, I really was starting to feel like, like, do I love this? You know, I mean, like I, I, I, I've always Wanted to do this. I'm doing it. I've been doing it for years. I. But I don't know, maybe, maybe I'll. I'll just write Barbie movies or something and, and.

And chip it and chip in, you know.

But, but watching being on the set and everything really was. I had a great time. I liked.

You know, all of it. And I was working with Emily like we, Emily and I did a lot, we did a lot of work over.

Over, I don't know, the course of maybe a year and a half, two years or something. And.

Because it kind of started, I think when I was even cutting White Noise and we were shooting Barbie and then it continued when we were cutting Barbie and we were.

So I would go, we would, she and I would work while we were also working on the edit. So I would go back and forth between the two.

Rooms. And so in that sense I'm, I'm conscious of it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm also curious about the. There's a kind of Fantasia quality, like a little Capra esque quality in J. Kelly too. And it feels like you're almost like splitting the difference between what you did in White Noise with this kind of constructed world and in Barbie, which is a very constructed world. Is that something that you're consciously saying? I kind of want to expand the way in which I'm designing a movie. There's a dreamlike quality to Jay Kelly that feels very different than what you've done before.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah, I.

I mean I, I suppose it is. It does come out of qualities that those two movies have, both White Noise and Barbie and, and it's a further exploration of that. But I, again, I wasn't thinking of it like that. I was thinking it more.

Because of the nature of the story, because it is a, it's a, it's a journey.

You know, into Europe and on a train and, but it is a journey into his past. And once we started writing the memories and, and this, the way he was going to essentially walk into them and they were going to exist in some ways concurrent to the present.

That from that point forward it did sort of. Then, then it meant that it was going to have this kind of quality to it. So it's like it was like a language that we. Because it was part of the story, it was a language then that informed the rest of the movie. And.

And it's not only that the memories kind of develop as we go on. So it's like his way into the memories changes even. And.

And the qualities of the memories are like what even is possible in the memories. Like, he speaks in the. One of the final ones and he hasn't spoken before, really. And.

Just sort of how these things could build on themselves. And.

The language can expand. I mean, it's always interesting how language in movies.

Can change. I mean, it can change and should change as the movie develops, whether the audience is aware of it or not. And it can be very subtle. It can be. You know, Sidney Lumet's always so very articulate about how he changes the framing and network as the movie. There's always very.

Defined versions of that. But I think it can happen in.

[Sean Fennesee]

And.

[Noah Baumbach]

I mean, in Frances.

[Sean Fennesee]

Ha.

[Noah Baumbach]

For instance, like, the.

Camera really never moves without.

Mostly Frances, but any character. And at the end, when she's writing out her mailbox name and she's in her. She's found her own apartment and she turns around and looks at the apartment and then the camera just pushes in. And it's like the simplest thing. But I think it's. It's because of the way the movie's been constructed. It's like an emotional.

Move, you know, which, if you did it in scene two, would mean nothing. And I. I think.

Meyerowitz, I remember, like, the music. You know, Randy Newman had done this piano score for the whole thing. But at the very end, an orchestra comes. You know, it's just. It's. Again, these are sort of simple, you know, things to refer to. But I think it's like as characters.

As possibilities maybe expand for characters emotionally and psychologically, I'm interested in how the cinema of the movie can also expand. And because of J. Kelly having these more, like you say, sort of magical.

Aspects to it, it was going to necessarily affect.

The rest of the movie.

[Sean Fennesee]

Is that why you hired Lina Sandgren? I was curious about that because he has just a comfort doing that kind of work.

[Noah Baumbach]

Well, I mean, I wanted to work with Linus before, so, I mean, I think I would have hired. I mean, I know I would have hired him, you know, if I was shooting two people in a room, you know.

But.

But certainly he was instrumental in.

[Sean Fennesee]

In.

[Noah Baumbach]

The design and methodology and. And. And really the poetry of the whole thing. I mean, Linus is. I mean, he's. I think he's. He's an incredibly sensitive. I don't know if you've spoken with him, but he's like a very. I mean, sort of. He's very sensitive to character and to the emotion of a movie on just the most basic level. And then he's also incredibly inventive. In terms of camera and lighting and what, what methodology really, like, how, how was the best way to do something? I mean, he'll come up with several. You know, sometimes I'm like, is that I, I, is any possible, like, what do you like, like, things? And he's like, oh, of course it is. You know, and he'll have all the reasons, you know, and it's amazing. I mean, he's just so.

It's just very expansive how he kind of imagines.

A world in a movie.

[Sean Fennesee]

Clooney really represents something about stardom and about the Hollywood engine that is definitely starting to feel a little bit antiquated or a little bit more challenged than it was 20 years ago. I'm curious if you see the film as an elegy for that time as much as for this figure.

[Noah Baumbach]

I, I, I mean, we were aware of that. I think it from, I mean, it was, I think it's, it was even built into my decision to do it, but I, I didn't feel like it even had to be acknowledged. It was, it was, it's. The fact of it is, is analogy in and of itself. I think it's.

And I think George's sort of timelessness, quality is a, you know, he looks, he could be a movie star at any, in any era, I think. And from silent onward, so he.

I think that adds to it too, that there's this.

You know, this notion we all have of like, you know, movie stars live forever. They're, you know, and we're in a time when.

Maybe they don't. I don't know.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, I don't know either. I hope they do, but I, I have some concerns and I think they do.

[Noah Baumbach]

I think they, of course they do, but I, I think, I mean, from a very, just straightforward. I think it's just that there's not, you know, you don't. The thing with movie stars is you can't pick them. They have to reveal themselves. And because we. No one understands and can quantify or qualify or talk what a movie star really is. It's just a feeling we get from people. And.

And.

So if we're not making enough things for those people to, you know, for us to even know who they might be, then we're not gonna find more of them. I mean, that's the thing.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, yeah, you've done something interesting with another star with Sandler. This is the second time. It's somewhat similar as Meyerowitz, but in this film, you get something really needy out of him. I don't Know if I've ever seen him quite so desperate in a part. He's angry and he's vivacious and exciting, but there's something really destroyed about this guy. And maybe you can just talk about why you wanted him for this and maybe even how he reacted to the material.

[Noah Baumbach]

Well, I think, I mean, because they are kind of shadow versions of each other, Jay and Ron. And we do that visually throughout sort of this doubling of the two of them. And I think even though Ron is going through, I mean, Jay is going through a kind of more.

Dark night of the soul kind of, of existential.

Crisis or you know, search and Ron is on the face of it going through a more.

A more maybe ordinary and the sort of every day of balancing work and life and you know, is this the right, you know, I've been doing this job for all these years. Do I love it? Do I, you know, do I, Is this, is this, is this person worth it? You know, I think they are. I love this person. But if they, if it's not worth it to them, why, why should it be worth it to me? Which of course then calls into question so many other things about the relationship and the friendship of like, is it all one sided? Don't I get to decide too whether or not we still do this? And the answer is no in a, in a certain sense. And so I think it does create a kind of desperation for him. And you know, I think, I mean what I.

You know, it's like when I worked with, I remember.

You know, when Squid in the Whale working with Jeff Daniels at one point and asking him like after take, like, how did that feel to you? And he said it felt, felt funny, but he wasn't playing it funny. And I knew exactly what he meant. It felt funny. I think there's something, you know, in. I always feel with all of my characters that there's something that feels funny even at its most dramatic. And I don't mean it means that it's played for laughs or it comes off as funny, but I think there is something, there's like a comic version of what Adam's doing in the movie that you could imagine in another if you just sort of adjust it slightly. And then there's a very moving.

Desperate, sad.

I mean heroic in his way too version of what you, you know, you see him do. But because Adam obviously has a built in sense of humor, I do think there's something actually quite it.

I don't know if I'm saying it right exactly, but the humor and it plays, I feel like, simultaneous to it. And so, you know, and I think in a large part it is because of how Adam does it.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I was trying to think if, I think, are your movies getting funnier or more tragic? Like, it's possible that the movies are getting increasingly more tragic, but maybe it just depends on where you're at in your own life to determine that too.

[Noah Baumbach]

I, I, I, I think so. I mean, I, I don't know. I think so. I think, I mean, I, Funny, I, because, like, I, I feel like, you know, I, I, with, with Jay Kelly, I see people, you know, when you have to show up after a movie and talk to people or shake hands.

[Sean Fennesee]

With jerks like me. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no.

[Noah Baumbach]

I don't mean like, even this. I mean, like, right after a movie, you know, like this sort of unnatural thing of like, like appearing on the other side of the door when people come out of Ruby, you know, and when you do that, you know, and I've seen how kind of, I mean, some people like crying in ways that, you know, like, really affected by it. And then, you know, then someone else would come up to me and say, like, like, oh, I just so enjoyed that, or something like that. And, you know, as if it was a more straight comedy in some way, I suppose. I don't know.

So I only say that in reference to what you said, which is, you know, I don't know. I don't know if they're getting funnier, more tragic. I guess it is, really depends on this person or that person.

[Sean Fennesee]

Can you talk a little bit about the Peter Schneider character? So I know you've been friends with a lot of older filmmakers and you've had mentors over the years, and there's something very tragic about that character and sad. And I was just curious to hear you talk about kind of where he came from.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah, well, I mean, he's, it's.

I mean, I've known.

Versions and had experiences, versions of experiences of that from, you know, teachers, parents, other people in the industry. You know, people who I admired who, when I met them, were less. Weren't where they were, you know, I mean, there are sort of.

[Sean Fennesee]

There, there.

[Noah Baumbach]

Is in that scene, and of course, with his name, there's. There is a, you know, a connection to Peter Bogdanovich, who I was very close with, who, when I met him in the 90s, was.

Had a kind of strange place in his life and career. And I mean, strange meaning only in reference to the fact that he'd had such massive success And. And was sort of in a place where he was looking to get some movies made and.

And having trouble. And.

It's such an interesting thing because it also speaks to how, you know, when we.

The way we see people, like, the way we see our parents. I mean, this is a theme in many of my movies, or, you know, where we're. There are heroes there. I mean, there.

They're always grown up, knowing they're, you know, at least that's how we know them only is that they know how it's done and we don't. And then there becomes a point where you know a little bit more and maybe you see that they knew a little bit less.

[Sean Fennesee]

And.

[Noah Baumbach]

And, you know, and even later, when you end up sort of the ages of your. Where your parents, you can remember them quite clearly, and you're like, oh, like that person I was putting all this, you know, talking, you know, like, their opinions, you know, and, you know, that's me now, you know, or.

And, you know, but also, obviously, with mentors and people that, you know, you looked up to. And of course, in the movie business, these people can be larger than life. And they, you know, and. And when you meet them for the first time, you know, it's.

[Sean Fennesee]

You're. The.

[Noah Baumbach]

You're still the kid sitting in the theater seeing that director's movie for the first time. And. And then as you. If you develop a relationship with them and a friendship, then obviously something else happens. And, you know, we see that in that scene with Peter and Jay. You know, I. And. And it's. Yeah, it's that. I mean, I find it. It's. It's really sad, too. And also really sad. The thing of, like.

You know, people have so much trouble say, like, you know, these, like, lions of our industry have trouble getting a movie made or something, and, you know, and then they pass away and then the tributes pour in and everybody talks about what an amazing, you know, thing. And, you know, you know, you do wish they could have gotten a little more of that when they were still there.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah. I was wondering how much of it you see, even yourself in, because there's definitely a Dickensian Christmas past, present, future quality to the way that Jay is going through the stages of his life in the film. Are you seeing any of yourself in Peter Schneider? Is there any, like. Like, cautionary tale quality to it?

[Noah Baumbach]

Well, I. I saw it in terms of Jay. I mean, in terms of, like, Jay is like, one rung down, you know, and he still, you know, has.

[Sean Fennesee]

You.

[Noah Baumbach]

Know, he's still Got whatever cachet power in his world. But.

You know, he's getting older and it's. Movie stars are not a thing that we tend to want to get older. I mean, there's so many examples, you know, Cary Grant retiring before, you know, because he didn't want people to see him get old on camera. I mean, he, you know, he kind of. Of which is probably his own sort of vanity, but also even his own protection of the Cary Grant brand in some sense.

[Sean Fennesee]

I just was listening to someone talk about how he was offered Lolita and turned it down because he couldn't see the idea of disassembling his on screen Persona for that movie.

[Noah Baumbach]

Yeah, I think that's. Bogdanovich told me that he at one point, I guess, was maybe gonna direct Heaven Could Wait and was with. With Beatty and. And they wanted. Beatty wanted Cary Grant, but he didn't want to be seen on camera. I think for Jay, it's. It's, you know, not only in retrospect is it a. Like a. An upsetting event, you know, Peter coming to him, you know, asking him for his name.

You know, because Peter passes away, of course, so it's something you can't take back or, you know, you can't have another experience after that with this person that you loved. But I think also, I'm sure there's also that feeling for him of like, that might be me next. You know, I mean, both versions, it might be me looking for somebody for work. And it also might be me, you know, passing away.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, it's. This is a tricky question because you said you don't go back and look at your films, but I asked Spike Lee this earlier this year if there's a movie of his that he's made that he thinks deserves a second look or another go round in the culture that he really likes. And I don't know, do you have a version of that for yourself?

[Noah Baumbach]

What did he say?

[Sean Fennesee]

He said 25th hour, which I love.

[Noah Baumbach]

I feel like that's pretty well thought of.

[Sean Fennesee]

So. I agree. Maybe he was just shining on one of his best.

[Noah Baumbach]

Well, I mean, a more recent one. I think White Noise does.

[Sean Fennesee]

I really like it. I liked it at the time. And I wonder why you think maybe it didn't get go into the culture as much as the previous couple of films did?

[Noah Baumbach]

I don't know. I mean.

I mean, all I. The only thing I can say is from my experience, instead of going out with. It was. For me, it was. It really was about COVID I mean, not just About COVID but it was as much about COVID as Eddington's about. You know, it was. And.

Nobody wanted to talk about COVID I mean, they still don't. Is. You know, and.

And I can't blame them in some sense. But I also thought, well, it's not act literally about it.

[Amanda Davin]

It's.

[Noah Baumbach]

It's. It's. You know, I think about how hard it is for us as a culture to process.

Sort of.

Disaster or, you know, pandemic in that case, and. And, you know, how we internalize it and essentially put it in our entertainment. And.

[Sean Fennesee]

And.

[Noah Baumbach]

But when it really happens, it feels unreal to us. So.

I guess I felt like nobody wanted to sort of take it on that way, so then they were taking it on in another way, which wasn't.

It wasn't sort of how I intended the movie.

You know, but it's always, you know, you're always sort of. Brian says in that document, in the documentary we made, you're always judged against the fashion of the moment. So it's sort of like, you know, that's out of your control.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, I mean, I think Ari encountered that a little bit this year, too, with Eddington. But, you know.

I assume when you were growing up and watching films, the idea of making something very contemporary that was focusing on what was happening was very celebrated. And now we're kind of. There's some discomfort with that. It feels like in the culture, too.

[Noah Baumbach]

I know you see, like, movies like To Be or Not To Be or something that's like, taking on.

I mean, taking on, but also.

Poking fun at, you know, Hitler and Nazi Germany. And it's like 1943 or something, that movie, you know. You know, or all the President's Men or something like that. I mean, White Noises was. It was different because it was not literal. And it's. You know, it was taking place in the 80s. It's from this book. It sort of has this other thing. But I do. I do think that I hope people will look at that again over time and, you know, at least give it another shot.

[Sean Fennesee]

No, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. Have you seen anything you like recently?

Oh, yeah.

[Noah Baumbach]

I mean, what would be the last great thing? I mean, in terms of, you know, what I watched again? I mean, this is not. I've seen it many times, but I hadn't seen it in a little while. Was Small Change. The Truffaut movie, we projected it.

And have you seen that recently?

[Sean Fennesee]

No, it's been a long time.

[Noah Baumbach]

It's amazing. It's so good. I mean, it's sort of like. I mean, another movie. I remember at the times, at least, the way it was kind of contextualized for me when I first saw it. I mean, I didn't see when it came out, but when I first saw it, whenever that was, it was sort of like the, like a lighter 400 blows. Like it's kids, but it's too young.

[Sean Fennesee]

Boy on girl. Right?

[Noah Baumbach]

Well, it's so it.

[Sean Fennesee]

They're, They're.

[Noah Baumbach]

They're. It's. It's more ensemble than that, really. It's mostly these boys that did this in this.

Provincial school and, and the teachers and sort of the. It really is. It's very.

I mean, it's almost like.

In. In a sense, kind of alt mini in that way of, like, it's, It's. It's a tableau.

[Sean Fennesee]

And.

[Noah Baumbach]

The ending of it brings a boy and a girl together. But.

I just loved it. I mean, I just love seeing it again. And I. And then I was also thinking, like, it's. I mean, I don't know, as good as. But it's like it's totally. In its own way, it's as good as 400 blows. It's like a. Just, just. And I always think of, like, Truffaut getting sort of a bad rap during the 70s, that he was, like, selling out in some way. I mean, it's such horseshit. Those movies are so good.

And anyway, that was. That was the last thing I saw that I really like. That was. I mean, it was only like a week and a half ago, but it was like, it really. Like Greta and I just were, like, talking about it for days.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's a great recommendation, Noah. Congrats on J. Kelly. Thanks for coming back.

[Noah Baumbach]

Thanks, Sean. It's nice to talk again.

[Sean Fennesee]

Thank you to Noah Baumbach. Thank you to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. We will be back on Friday to talk about Hamnet and the Secret Agent and our favorite performances of 2025. And what else? Will the Netflix thing be done?

[Amanda Davin]

Yeah, definitely.

[Sean Fennesee]

It'll be closed.

[Amanda Davin]

Yes, but it won't be a Netflix thing. It'll be. David Ellison will now be in charge of your life.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, all right, we'll see you then.

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[Noah Baumbach]

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[Sean Fennesee]

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[Noah Baumbach]

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[Sean Fennesee]

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[Noah Baumbach]

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