The Epic Movie Draft

Summary

The Big Picture | The Epic Movie Draft

Host: Sean Fennessey
Co-host: Amanda Dobbins
Guest: Chris Ryan (“CR”)
Episode Date: July 14, 2026

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Overview

In this lively and encyclopedic episode, Sean, Amanda, and Chris assemble for “The Epic Movie Draft,” celebrating the grandest, most ambitious films in cinema history. Using the release of Nolan’s The Odyssey as occasion, the trio establishes ground rules for what constitutes an “epic,” debates the virtues and boundaries of the genre, and then drafts their picks across seven categories: Odyssey-inspired epics, Best Picture winners, Biblical epics, Romantic/War epics, Biopics, 3+ hour movies, and a Wildcard. Along the way, the team memorializes Sam Neill, analyzes the Moana box office, riffs on the trajectory of Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson and Tom Cruise, reacts to big trailers, and revels in the communal joys of the movies—especially the largest ones.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epic Movie Draft: Definitions and Debate

[27:00–34:00]

• Defining “Epic”:

  • Epics usually have grand scope: multiple locations, big historical, mythic, or emotional stakes, and often massive casts/extras.
  • Extras matter: “Just the sheer number of crowd scenes…they really went for it back in the day. That is one of the things that is diminishing as we move to CGI crowds, which they just…the technology is not there.” (Amanda, 28:54)
  • “You kind of know it when you see it.” (Chris, 27:03)

• Epic genres:

  • Sword-and-sandal, religious/Biblical, Westerns, war films, romances; later, even biopics and multi-part crime sagas are included.

• Notable exchange:

  • Sean: “Can a movie be two hours and eight minutes and be an epic?”
  • Chris: “I don't think it's durational. For me, it's about the multiplicity of locations, the scope...” (29:28)

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2. Honoring Sam Neill

[3:21–7:28]

• Sam Neill’s legacy, especially in the ’90s (Jurassic Park, The Hunt for Red October, The Piano, Event Horizon).
• Amanda: “He was introduced to us blockbuster-wise, but obviously had a rich and varied career outside of the dinosaurs.” (5:11)
• Sean & Chris reminisce about Neill’s range: “He could do everything from [a] period piece to an action thriller to a sci-fi movie...” (6:11)

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3. Discussion: The State of Blockbusters & Disney’s Moana Bomb

[7:28–16:32]

• “Moana” live-action remake flopped: $43M US, $95M worldwide.

• Sean attributes this to:

  • Franchises fatiguing audiences.
  • “It’s only been 10 years since the animated Moana came out...most of these live-action remakes are films that were made at least 30 years ago...” (8:24)

• Deep dive into The Rock’s career slide since mid-2010s. Chris: “He doesn't have anything in his filmography that even approaches lower mid-tier Schwarzenegger…Let alone a Terminator 2.” (10:05)

• Amanda’s critique: “Critically…this is maybe the worst list of movies ever made.” (11:03)

• Industry-wide observation:
  Amanda: “Are things changing? Are people tired of franchises? You stick The Rock in some junky XYZ with bad CGI…and maybe now we are turning to a point where it is not [enough].” (12:06)

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4. Trailers & Movie News Roundup

[17:01–26:00]

• Tom Cruise in "Digger": Satirical, big-budget comedy—trailer reactions are lukewarm, lots of questions whether the tone will connect with audiences.
  Amanda: “I mean, as soon as they put comedy on the poster…I was like, oh, you guys are nervous.” (18:43) Chris: “There’s been a lot of talk online…how complicated and hard satire is for people to do well.” (18:43)

• Dune: Part 3 Trailer:

  • Zendaya, Pattinson, Momoa—loads of hype, everyone just “ready to see the movie.”
  • Chris on Pattinson: “He’s going to fucking win the Triple Crown this year…he is out of his mind in this trailer…” (22:52)

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5. Movie-Adjacent Joys: Wes Anderson Hollywood Bowl

[26:00–27:03]

• Amanda attends the “Wes Anderson World” at the Hollywood Bowl:
  • “Jackson Browne did ‘These Days,’ which was, like, pretty moving and, like, telling a story about how that song was not a thing until Tenenbaums…So it was really magical.” (26:53)

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6. The Epic Movie Draft (The Picks!)

[34:58–99:14]

Draft Categories:

• Odyssey-Inspired Epics
• Epic Best Picture Winners
• Biblical Epics
• Romantic or War Epics
• Biopic Epics
• Movies Exceeding 3 Hours
• Wildcard

Sample of First Picks & Commentary:

• Chris Ryan:

  • Lawrence of Arabia (Movies Over 3 Hours)
    “Some of the most awe inspiring shots and sequences in terms of real locations out in the desert, huge swaths of people storming Aqaba…” (35:56)
    • “I think, I would imagine, for most people listening, if you close your eyes and I said, name an epic movie, this would be the first one that came to mind.” (38:21)

• Sean Fennessey:

  • The Last Temptation of Christ (Biblical Epic)
    On Scorsese’s Jesus film: “It’s like a very sympathetic and sincere and deep portrait of what we imagine it means to be a faithful person, a person with deep moral integrity.” (40:08)

• Amanda Dobbins:

  • The English Patient (Romantic/War Epic)
    “And maybe one of the sexiest movies I have ever seen…I love it. It’s beautiful.” (43:06)

• Other notable early picks:

  • Amanda: JFK (Over 3 Hours)
  • Sean: Seven Samurai (Over 3 Hours)
  • Chris: Malcolm X (Biopic Epic), The Last of the Mohicans (Romantic Epic)
  • Amanda: Reds (Biopic Epic), Ben-Hur (Biblical Epic), Godfather Part II (Best Picture Epic), Wizard of Oz (Odyssey-Inspired)

Draft Debate Highlights:

• “Is it Epic?” Arguments:

  • Last of the Mohicans is under 2 hours but generally accepted as epic for its breadth and production values.
  • Biopic-epic boundary: Is JFK a Jim Garrison biopic? Amanda: “It obviously is more lasting and more honest as a fever dream about an entire generation of people not understanding what happened and going slightly crazy trying to figure out...” (46:12)

• Wildcard/Rule-bending:

  • Chris nabs Kingdom of Heaven: Director’s Cut as a “Biblical Epic” even though it’s about the Crusades, not the Bible: the gang debates its eligibility (84:59).
  • Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair gets in as a newly-released-in-theaters epic (93:48).

• Humor & Riffs:

  • Epic porn (“four-hour, multi-locational, $100 million pornos” joke, 27:18).
  • Dead horses/dangerous stunts in old movies: “You have to respect. Real horses died during the making of this…It’s like Jackass.” (48:44)
  • For Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King: “He touches the ring for one scene.” (82:23) and “Shire is an incredible investment opportunity…” (83:56)

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7. Mega List: Honorable Mentions & What’s “Epic”

[99:14–107:47]

• The hosts review a huge roster of honorable mentions in each category:

  • Epic Best Picture Winners: Gone with the Wind, Godfather, Gandhi, Out of Africa, Braveheart, Sound of Music, Gladiator, Titanic, Oppenheimer, One Battle After Another.
  • Biblical Epics: Ten Commandments, The Robe, Passion of the Christ, Ben-Hur, King of Kings, Quo Vadis, Barabbas, Noah, etc.
  • Romantic/War Epics: Saving Private Ryan, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Dr. Zhivago, Platoon, Out of Africa, Once Upon a Time in China, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.
  • Biopic Epics: Lincoln, The Aviator, Ali, Che, Amadeus, Goodfellas, Wolf of Wall Street, Catch Me If You Can, The Revenant, Schindler’s List.
  • Other Epics: Dune, Killers of the Flower Moon, Once Upon a Time in the West, Once Upon a Time in America, RRR, 1900, The Irishman.

• Musical Epics: Musicals sometimes fit—Sound of Music, Les Misérables discussed as examples.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Enduring Power of Epics:
  “You kind of know it when you see it…there are sometimes films that might have the trappings…but fall short. And there are domestic chamber pieces…you could call epic. But, to me, I’m very curious to see…how argumentative we get.” (Chris, 27:03)

• On Watching Epics:
  “I like it when people try things.” (Amanda, 32:27)

• On Box Office Trends:
  “Stick the Rock in some junky XYZ with bad cgi…and maybe now we are turning to a point where it is not.” (Amanda, 12:06)

• On the Most Epic of All:
  “If you close your eyes and I said, name an epic movie, [Lawrence of Arabia] would be the first one that came to mind.” (Chris, 38:21)

• On Changing Definitions:
  “Biblical epic is very clear…folds like…” (Chris, 87:34 — cut off by Amanda as the debate heats up over Kingdom of Heaven’s legitimacy)

• On Podcast Listening Habits:
  “I would sooner kill myself than listen to my own podcast.” (Sean, 24:35)

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Draft Summary: Final Picks by Each Participant

Chris Ryan

• Odyssey-Inspired: The Searchers
• Best Picture Winner: Bridge on the River Kwai
• Biblical Epic: Kingdom of Heaven (Director's Cut)
• Romantic/War Epic: Last of the Mohicans
• Biopic Epic: Malcolm X
• 3+ Hours: Lawrence of Arabia
• Wildcard: Carlos

Sean Fennessey

• Odyssey-Inspired: O Brother, Where Art Thou?
• Best Picture Winner: The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
• Biblical Epic: The Last Temptation of Christ
• Romantic/War Epic: The Deer Hunter
• Biopic Epic: Amadeus
• 3+ Hours: Seven Samurai
• Wildcard: Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair

Amanda Dobbins

• Odyssey-Inspired: The Wizard of Oz
• Best Picture Winner: Godfather Part II
• Biblical Epic: Ben-Hur
• Romantic/War Epic: The English Patient
• Biopic Epic: Reds
• 3+ Hours: JFK
• Wildcard: Barry Lyndon

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Timestamps by Segment

| MM:SS | Segment/Topic | |----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:18 | Opening: What is an Epic? (Setup for Draft) | | 03:21 | Remembering Sam Neill | | 07:28 | Moana Live-Action Remake Flops, State of Blockbusters | | 17:01 | Tom Cruise’s “Digger,” Dune 3, Big Trailer Drop Reactions | | 26:00 | Wes Anderson Hollywood Bowl Event | | 27:00 | Defining “Epic” & Setting Draft Rules | | 34:58 | Draft Begins: First Picks & Strategies | | 39:16 | Biblical Epics & The Last Temptation of Christ | | 42:00 | Amanda’s Double Pick: English Patient, JFK | | 48:44 | Why Old Epics Endure: Real Danger, Real Horses (“It’s like Jackass…you have to respect it…”) | | 51:27 | “Epic” Romances & War Movies – what qualifies? | | 84:59 | Kingdom of Heaven (Director’s Cut) Debate – What’s a “Biblical Epic?” | | 93:48 | Wildcard Round: Kill Bill—The Whole Bloody Affair and family horror movie boundaries | | 99:14 | Honorable Mentions: Best Picture and Epic Miscellanea | | 110:16 | Reflections on Draft Format, Future Genre Drafts, Closing Banter |

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Tone & Takeaways

• Cinephilic Banter: Rich, playful, occasionally argumentative, but always enthusiastic and rooted in deep film knowledge.
• Nuanced Debates: On rules, genres, and boundaries—often tongue-in-cheek but with genuine insight.
• Celebratory: Highlights how epics remain milestones in both personal and cultural film memories.
• Reflexive: Admits generational bias in selections; jokes about changing tastes and podcasting idiosyncrasies.

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Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This summary lays out both the structure and spirit of the episode, detailing the approach to categorizing epics, the logic behind choices, the team’s rapport and comic asides, and the breadth of movies covered. It provides a consolidated look at the major draft picks and issues debated, plus a sense of how these conversations are situated in 2026’s movie landscape.

Transcript

[A]

I'm Sean Fennesey.

[B]

I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is the

[A]

Big Picture, a conversation show about epic movies. CR is here and we are drafting again. In honor of the Odyssey, we are conducting the very first and maybe only epic Movie draft. What does that mean? I'm so glad you asked, Chris. We're going to break it all down right after this. This episode of the Big Picture is presented by Amazon Prime. One of the best things about streaming is that you never just pick a title, you pick a feeling. And prime makes that easy. With great entertainment and fast shipping that brings the moment to life. Prime helps you experience the feeling you're craving. Shows you can't wait for and deliveries you don't wait for. One click away from streaming to fast shipping. It's on Prime. Okay, we are going to draft epic movies today, but a lot of news has transpired. We've just returned a lot of news. Yeah, a lot of news. Yeah, we've just returned a lot of

[C]

stuff in the news.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why don't you tell us your highlights?

[C]

I mean, I just think it's an interesting time for the Senate.

[A]

That's what's on top of mind.

[B]

But Patrick Dempsey will not be throwing his hat in the ring.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Did he announce that?

[C]

He said that he announced that he was not going to be running.

[A]

Can you believe strom Thurmond had 50 some odd years of continuous service in that seat? And then Lindsey Graham came right up behind him.

[C]

So there's been like two centers.

[A]

So like for 70 years it was just those two guys. Pretty cool.

[B]

Good riddance.

[A]

I don't live in that state.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

What's that?

[C]

It's kind of like the big pick.

[A]

Oh. So who do you think?

[C]

When you die, she'll take over.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And then maybe.

[A]

Who does that make you?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

James Talarico. Okay, enough politics, Fetto.

[B]

So we.

[A]

Speaking of. Of international intrigue, though, we.

[B]

Oh, sad.

[A]

Now we came back from Canada. We went to Canada last week. And I just wanted to say thanks to the fine people of Canada and Toronto, where we had a lovely 72 hours. We showed a Christopher Nolan film tenet. We did a live draft with some special friends that will air on this feed.

[C]

I look at him instead of you.

[B]

Thank you so much for tuning in.

[A]

You're turning your back on me mid pot. We just started. You're already shunning me? I can't believe this.

[B]

He feels bad about his behavior in the car on the way to the airport, and so he's trying to. You were done with us by the end of the draft, and maybe we can get into that during the draft, which is true.

[A]

And actually, Amanda and I were locking in. We were having the most fun. And you were like, enough.

[B]

Because you were like, this is where I get off the bus. And it was the green room after Tenet, and you said, no more. And then. I don't think that's true at all.

[A]

It is 1,000% true.

[B]

But it's okay. We're back. And also after the last draft. Has the last draft aired yet?

[A]

The last draft? The draft we just conducted?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

No, that will air next month.

[B]

No, no, no, no. The last one that we three did together with. You don't remember this? What was it? Can someone help me out?

[A]

You mean the auction?

[B]

The auction. Oh, the auction. That's right.

[A]

Are you okay?

[C]

The auctioneered.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Listen, we saw Tenet, and I'm unmoored in space and time, right? I go backwards, I go forwards. I'm here in the moment. But he turned on me a little during the auction as well. So we're healing right now. It's beautiful. But I've noticed that the CH chair is inching that way again.

[C]

George. Sean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come back to me, my son. Okay, let's talk about real news, real movie news. Sam Neill passed away. Terrible News. He was 78 years old. And it struck me the minute I heard this news, just what an essential part of he was in my early moviegoing and movie loving Life in the 1990s. If you look around, you see Sam Neill everywhere. Now, obviously, he's had a full career starting in the late 70s that ran all the way up until the present day, but just in the 90s. Jurassic park, of course, the Hunt for Red October and the Mouth of Madness, the Piano, Event Horizon, a number of movies that we talk about with great frequency on this show. Amanda, when I say Sam Neill, what do you think about.

[B]

I would like to have seen Montana, which is, you know, and to your point, that's from the Hunt for Red October. And then obviously, he's one with the dinosaurs forevermore. And that's where I probably first saw him. But it's been fun as we have been doing our various theme episodes and also as Blank Check has been doing. God.

[A]

Peter Weir.

[B]

Peter Weir. Thank you. I was like Australia.

[A]

Aussie.

[B]

Yes, Australia. I was like Australia. To go back and discover him. He was obviously a big part of Australian and, you know, New Zealand cinema and bringing that to the U.S. so getting to see things like Dead calm. Which I had not seen until a couple years ago. Maybe when we were doing erotic thrillers.

[A]

Right. Was that it?

[B]

I can't remember or I would have said that it was the George Miller episode. No, it wasn't.

[A]

Something about boats.

[B]

Nicole Kidman. Did we do a Nicole Kidman hall of Fame? That's what it was. Okay.

[A]

There you go. Anyway, we're really building a true temple here. Yes.

[C]

Encyclopedic. The big picture.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

It's true. Yeah. But so someone who was introduced to us blockbuster wise, but obviously had like a rich and varied career outside of

[A]

the dinosaurs, no doubt. It's got his start in 1979 in my brilliant career. Gillian Armstrong.

[C]

What was the. I think it's a New Zealand. I think it might be Roger Donaldson, the one that he made with like Warren Oates.

[A]

Sleeping Dogs. Yeah, that's a. That movie came before. My brilliant career is like 76, 70. There's an arrow edition of that movie. It's a really, really cool movie. And yeah, I mean, he did have this kind of rich period in his career in Australia and New Zealand making films before coming over to Hollywood. But then by the time he came to Hollywood, he just became a pretty entrenched leading man who could also go real crazy. You know, he was famously in it. Was it the Omen 4, where he was for president. He plays Damian and you know, obviously movies like Event Horizon and In the Mouth of Madness.

[C]

Damien's full name.

[A]

Yeah. Just had great range and was a really talented actor.

[C]

So I think in some ways a less flashy version of careers of slightly younger actors maybe, or probably actually contemporaries of like Malkovich and Dafoe who are capable of doing everything from Jim Jarmusch and, you know, a period piece to an action thriller to a sci fi movie to Robert Eggers movies or what have you. And I just hope we continue to see actors who have careers as varied and rich as him. He was metronomic. You could just depend on him finding, like, locating the, like the best emotion for each scene, but also would be able to like take the handbrake off at any given moment and do something like he does in Event Horizon that's a little bit more dramatic or.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, he like even obviously Possession is a legendary film that he was a huge part of. And even as recently as Taika Waititi's Hunt for the Wilder People, where he's doing like a much more broad, comic, outsized performance. So he was just an amazing performer. So we honor him on the show from the sublime to the absurd. Moana. Moana was the big release. While we were in Canada, I saw the film. It's a live action remake of the 2016 Disney Animated Instant classic film. I love a great deal.

[B]

Why don't you perform some of it for us live?

[A]

Moana. Make way. Make way. I think that's. We're in copyright territory. I did see this live action remake with my daughter in 3D yesterday.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And on purpose.

[C]

She wear the glasses?

[A]

She did. I thought it would be an interesting experiment. And she wore them and she enjoyed the 3D experience. She said, moana is coming out of the screen, dad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And that was exciting.

[C]

It's all that the 3D makers could ask for.

[A]

Yes. That was about the only exciting thing about Moana, which was just not very good, as you might imagine, and is a huge bomb. It made $43 million here in the States, $95 million worldwide opening. And it was reported that $125 million will be lost to the Walt Disney Corporation. You say what? Amanda?

[B]

I was going on you. I was going to say. And there. And it inspired a new wave of hand wringing coverage of the box office. Is it up? Is it down? You say what?

[A]

I think it's interesting. I think it kind of checks out with how everything's been going, which is to say that it's kind of out with the old and in with the new. This is the. Well, there's two. There's two things about Moana, specifically. One is that Moana 2 just came out a year and a half ago, and it was a big hit, even though it was critically not acclaimed. And so this is just way too soon for another Moana movie. And this movie was paused to fast track the Moana 2 animated movie. They gave us this more quickly. The second thing is that it's only been 10 years since the animated Moana came out. Most of these live action remakes are films that were made at least 30 years ago and sometimes even 80 years ago. So, Chris, you saw the film four or five times this weekend. What do you think?

[C]

That's probably why you guys were reacting to my mood in Toronto, is that I was quite busy attending Moana screenings anytime I had a moment to myself. And I come out of those, you know, multiple trips to the theater. And I ask you, this is the Rock dead?

[A]

I think this is an underreported component of this story. I have helpfully compiled the filmography for Dwayne the Rock Johnson, a professional wrestler non parel really? One of the goats. Since 2016, since the original Moana was released, here are the films that Dwayne the Rock Johnson has made. The Fate of the Furious Baywatch. Welcome to the Jungle Rampage. Skyscraper. Those are two different movies. Fast and Furious presents Hobbs and Shaw the Next Level Jungle Cruise Red Notice Animated DC League of Super Pets Black Adam, Fast X Red 1. Moana 2. The Smashing Machine, Moana. And then later this year, Jumanji Open World. Woof.

[C]

I was gonna be charitable and say this happened to Schwarzenegger. This happens to lots of our great action stars. You have like a shelf life. People get tired of your moves or people move on to the next thing. But he doesn't have anything in his filmography that even approaches like lower mid tier Schwarzenegger.

[A]

I agree. Let alone a Terminator 2. There is no Terminator 2 in his.

[C]

So I don't know what to say here. I can never not think that I'm watching the Rock when I see him on screen. I also have to, unlike you, I would say that some of his charms are lost on me, but not necessarily, am I. I'm not like anti Dwayne Johnson, anti the Rock, but nor am I.

[B]

And I think I've only seen half of these movies.

[A]

I've seen every single one.

[B]

Well, some of them I was. Some of them I was on leave for. And Skyscraper. I just. No, I think I saw Skyscraper, actually. They don't stay in your mind, but these are.

[C]

What's your favorite?

[B]

Critically. I was gonna say critically. These are just. This is maybe the worst list of movies ever made.

[A]

It's a.

[B]

It's a rough list, box office wise. It comes at first.

[A]

The Jumanji films are huge, so there's that. Obviously the. The Fast and the Furious franchise was very sturdy for a long time.

[C]

His movies. I would have to go back and look, double check my work. His movies that are not Jumanji or Fast movies have like a $150 million ceiling.

[A]

I think that's more or less right.

[C]

Like San Andreas and Sky Spin.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, he has obviously pivoted by going to do Red Notice and redone. Those are more or less streaming movies. The Smashing Machine was more of a prestige play. I like the Smashing Machine and I thought his performance in it was very good. But a lot of these choices are really bad. And this is like kind of a reckoning for somebody who has only pursued a certain kind of movie for such a long time. And he wasn't. He's not like he was bad in the Live Action Moana. He originated Maui. He looks a lot like Maui. He's charming enough, but it's just a repeat of a movie we've already seen. And there's nothing in this live action remake that improves upon the original in any way.

[B]

Well, he's also. Everything you said is true and speaks to his career and also the way many big budget movies have made in the last 10, 15 years. And so it does speak to this moment that we keep coming back to of like, oh, are things changing? And are people tired of franchises? And you stick the Rock in some junky XYZ with bad cgi. And for a while that was enough and. Or studios and businesses and the Rock thought that it was enough. And maybe now we are turning to a point where it is not.

[C]

He's gotta find a middle ground between probably a 24 stuff and imaginary Scorsese movies and Jumanji. But I do want to point out that we have now entered a new era. That being so over, in fact means we are so back. That movies failing means that people have like higher taste standards or something like that.

[A]

Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. I think it is not unanimous at the moment, but the success of movies from younger filmmakers and young people getting excited about those filmmakers is the thing that I think has turned, you know, because a lot of the people who were excited about Moana when it came out, let's say they were 8 years old when it came out, those people are 18 years old. Those people are not interested in going to see a live action Moana. Also, when Moana came out, most people who were parents at that time are like, well, my kids are grown up, so I'm not interested in that either, in that Pixar way, where Pixar draws in a lot of parents. So the movie is really like neither fish nor fowl. I think it'll be interesting to see because a handful of movies have now kind of skipped. You know, we talked about Minions. Skipped a beat.

[B]

It held. It sort of.

[A]

It did okay.

[B]

It helped.

[A]

It did okay. But even to.

[B]

Let me just. And let me say to you, I said this off camera. I said it off camera. But I'll say it to you and Andy right here. Next time, call me. You know, you have my phone number. I'm available to bother you.

[C]

You know, you're a busy woman.

[B]

You guys always say this and then you just never answer my text. And then, you know, sell me in the car.

[A]

I've been a sincere correspondent of late. I mean. I mean, I've made an effort.

[C]

I think it's fair to say that a lot of younger people have. You know, but they. If you grew up with Moana, chances are you went and saw Obsession in the last six weeks.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Your silence has been deafening about Indy Navarretti attending a Mets game.

[A]

Well, we were already cursed, so I'm not sure how much worse things could get.

[C]

Do you think that's where her character was actually doomed to in the movie?

[A]

Yeah, that's her ultimate fate is Citi Field Forever. Yeah, that's where I'm going to be buried. So maybe she can join me there. The less said about the Mets, the better. But I am going on Mets corner tomorrow and we will say a prayer to the demons who have overtaken that franchise. The Disney live action future. So should they keep doing this?

[B]

No.

[A]

I mean, Lilo and Stitch made a billion dollars. Right. So that worked. And that was in that sweet spot where the kids who liked it when they were kids are grown ups and they have their own kids. That was a smart strategy. I counted there have been 18 live action Disney remakes this century as part of this new initiative.

[B]

Great.

[A]

And they haven't done a couple of all time classics. Bambi is probably the most prominent. Pocahontas comes to mind as a movie they haven't remade and probably shouldn't. You know, more some more recent films. Hercules and Tarzan.

[B]

Hercules, Hercules.

[A]

Hercules the Nutty Professor.

[C]

You're thinking of what you guys are talking about when this topic comes up.

[A]

Have you seen the Emperor's New Groove?

[C]

Is that a movie?

[B]

Oh, I saw that in theaters. Yeah.

[A]

It's an animated comedy from.

[B]

Listen, I was a child once. What do you want to say?

[C]

Oh, this is from when? Back when we were kidding.

[A]

2002. So you weren't a child?

[C]

Definitely a child.

[B]

I was graduating from high school.

[A]

Okay, but you went to see that in theaters. It's a movie I like. I saw it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm curious to see how much they keep pushing this. Tangled is being remade and is going to come out in a few years.

[B]

Mandy Moore.

[A]

Is she the star?

[B]

Wasn't she in the original?

[A]

She was the star of the original, but I don't think she'll be playing Rapunzel in the new film.

[B]

You don't know? Maybe they're updating it.

[A]

You think it's going to be about a 40 year old former pop star? Yeah, that would be a weird Rapunzel. You know, Frozen's going to happen at some point. There's going to be a Live action Frozen. There's a billion, 2 billion, $3 billion waiting for a live action Frozen. But after that, I don't know, maybe, hopefully this is over.

[C]

It's been kind of reported that these are all Iger mistakes. I thought that was interesting that they're like these were all Bob's green lights and Josh d' Amaro is not going to, not going to get fooled with the banana and the tailpipe again.

[A]

Yeah, I think it was just.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

They weren't mistakes. These movies made $800 million for years and years. They did a good job. It's just like they eroded. What's special about Disney? Like Disney was a creative space that took pre established stories that you knew and put their Disney touch on it and made you see them in a new light. That was something exciting that they accomplished for 80, 90 years. And what they've been doing with these movies is taking movies they already made and making them again and making them less good with human actors. And so it should end. That's my take.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, thanks, guys. Speaking of human actors, Tom Cruise will appear in Digger.

[B]

Yeah. And also on top of some random structure on the Warner Brothers lot during the trailer release event for Digger. Because this man climbs on things.

[C]

Does he not know how to just be like, I'm gonna let this movie sell itself?

[B]

Or like, I don't think it's gonna sell itself. I think he has to sell it.

[C]

But don't you think there's like a cognitive dissonance from the showmanship of the way he's kind of presenting this movie to what this movie is supposed to maybe be about?

[B]

Perhaps.

[A]

I think that they think the superpower of the movie is Tom Cruise. And so it is. It has been Tom Cruise forward.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The trailer was released today. We're recording on Monday.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Chris, what did you think of the trailer for Digger, Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu's new film?

[C]

You know, it didn't deter me from seeing it. I was a little surprised by how much seems to be in it. You know, like that seems to be what Digger is about, is about environmental crisis caused by this oil man who's also in the cabinet of John Goodman's presidency and has to go fix what the problem he started. I don't think I found it funny or, or like I wasn't like, wow, Lev Grossman. But like from Texas. Yeah, Incredible. Les Grossman. But I'm still going to go see it. I just. This was, this was the one that felt like there was like a little bead of sweat coming down Mike DeLuca's forehead. And he was like, we need to make sure everybody knows what this movie's about. And there's been a lot of talk online today about how complicated and hard satire is for people to do well.

[B]

Sure is. I mean, as soon as they put a comedy on the poster back in last year, I was like, oh, you guys are nervous. You need to tell people. And I mean, this is the trailer that we saw in. In Cinema Invasion.

[A]

We saw like an extended two minute scene that led right into this trailer that we saw.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But I would say my reaction was the same to. To yours.

[C]

To mine.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That you thought it was not funny and you were concerned.

[B]

Well, that it didn't assuage any of my concerns. Just from the basic shouting comedy really loudly with like bright lights to try to get you to laugh, which is, I think, a problem. You know, the cruise of it all in the trailer and in the extended scene that we saw is very funny. I'm excited for that. I like the rest of the cast. I think it's cool that people are trying things again. My Inari 2 history, you know, is hit and miss.

[A]

Checkered at best.

[C]

Is that cat cgi?

[A]

Couldn't tell. Couldn't tell.

[C]

It honestly took me out.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Took me out. I just think we just have a real cat.

[A]

You cat guy.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. Love cat content.

[B]

Let me ask you something totally unrelated. You've seen Disclosure Day yet?

[C]

No.

[B]

Okay, so we'll circle back on that one.

[C]

Are there cats in it?

[A]

Along with Tom Cruise and John Goodman.

[C]

I don't have to see it because it made over 100 million.

[B]

Oh, okay. So you're.

[A]

You're not in debt. So what else can we get you to spend your money on this summer? We'll figure that out.

[C]

Fix us soccer.

[A]

They're going to need more than that.5 million you were allotting for disclosure your day. RZ Ahmed is in the film. Sandra Houler is in the film. Yeah, I would say I'm intrigued, but I have concerns as well. I think. Not a big yinary2 guy either. You think it looked good?

[B]

Why is it so washed out? Don't like it in this depiction.

[A]

I think it's a very clear stylistic choice that they made. I don't think it's unintentional by any means. I joked when we were at Cinemacon that it looked like a Roy Anderson movie. And at times it kind of does that big kind of almost like Coliseum sequence with all the men, the older men. In one space, kind of recreating a strange, Lovian type of scene. Does look like a Roy Anderson movie on speed. You know, Inoritsu's a great stylist who, I think, just like, circles the drain with very similar ideas about bleakness every time he makes a movie. And he sometimes tries to undercut that bleakness by making comedies like Birdman. And those comedies are often not that funny. That could be the point. You know, that could be sort of something that he's trying to say that, like, in the death rattle of life, the absurdity is the struggle is the humor. But I wouldn't say that that's my favorite kind of movie to watch. But I am avowed to cruise. I'm fascinated to see him reach back for something different. It's been a long time since he's done something different. So we'll be watching and covering on the show. Will you be watching and covering on

[C]

my show or on this show?

[A]

Which show do you mean when you say your show? You have so many shows.

[C]

Talk the Thrones Solo Pod just breaking down. No, for Digger. I'd love to come onto the Digger podcast.

[A]

You would? Ye. Okay, we'll keep that in mind.

[B]

You have to see the film.

[A]

I will.

[C]

I do my homework assignments, but during the World Cup, I have. It's fallen by the wayside.

[B]

It's not fair. You've had a lot on your plate, and I support you.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

So when we scooch back this way a little bit more.

[A]

That's nice. That's very adorable. You keep moving in and out of your shot, I think. Be careful there. While we were in Toronto, The Dune Part 3 trailer premiered and on stage. After presenting Tenet, Chris asked us if we'd watched it, and neither of us had. Have you since watched it?

[B]

No, because I thought it was what we saw. And I thought we saw it in Cinema Con.

[A]

This was new.

[C]

This is uncut Peruvian flake.

[B]

Okay, well, listen, let me tell you that what we saw in Vegas was just straight up fire. Unbelievable. I don't need to see anymore. Show me the movie.

[C]

They did it right after Dune 2. We didn't have to wait five years. Timmy is himothy. Zendaya's doing Tyra Banks. Like, Pattinson is going for. Like, honestly, he's going to fucking win the Triple Crown this year.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And two of his movies could be bad, and he could still win the Triple Crown. He is out of his mind in this trailer. Anya covered in blood.

[B]

Oh, yeah, we saw that. Are you sure we didn't see this.

[A]

It's possible. I don't think so.

[B]

I think that we saw it.

[A]

Okay, but you haven't seen it since, so you can't confirm.

[C]

Well, I had to drive, but you know what I'm talking about. Maybe we did. Zendaya's, like, we trusted you.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[A]

There's a lot of Jason Momoa in this trailer. Coke who has returned for some sort of vengeance. Is he. What version of Duncan Idaho is he?

[C]

I mean, it's complicated.

[A]

It's okay. It's fine. Don't worry about it. You're going to see this film.

[C]

Guess I read Dune for nothing.

[B]

Yeah, Dune or the Wikipedia page. All right.

[C]

Yeah. That's kind of how I like to roll.

[A]

Do you own a copy of Dune Messiah?

[C]

No.

[A]

An audiobook.

[C]

I mean, I've picked it up. I picked it. My mom had one, I think. I think I've like, this is a

[A]

real been to Prague, been to Prague situation here.

[C]

This is like. I like the liter criticism because I get both.

[B]

Can I ask, do you do audiobooks?

[C]

Oh, no.

[B]

Me either. No, do you? Do you audiobooks?

[A]

I was listening to it on the way here. Yeah.

[B]

Dune 3.

[A]

No, no, no, not of Dune Messiah. No, no. What were you listening to? Abel Ferrara's memoir.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Read by Abel.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was gonna say no days off for you.

[B]

Yeah. That's beautiful.

[C]

You're never, like, driving into work listening to Lonesome Dollar film.

[B]

Did you retain anything of what you listened to?

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Did you listen to it at 2x?

[A]

Uh, 1.5.

[B]

Okay. That's better than 2x. He gave me a ride home from the airport and the podcast started playing on 2x when we got in the car.

[C]

What pod was it?

[B]

Uh, it was, unfortunately, the big picture, which was even worse.

[A]

It was autoplay.

[B]

It was autoplay because he had been sharing. It's fine, that part is innocent, but that. It was the most psychotic thing.

[C]

Gotta get those numbers up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would sooner kill myself than listen to my own podcast. However,

[B]

I had a physical reaction to it, and I do think that I now understand you in, like, a slightly different way. It's important you know I've been repping

[A]

2x for a long time.

[C]

I know that, but I had never experienced it.

[B]

I had never experienced it. And that is unnatural.

[A]

That's right. And that's what makes me special.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Speaking of special, I co programmed a series on the Criterion channel.

[C]

Can I just tell you something? Yeah. Really cool selection of films.

[A]

Yeah, thanks.

[C]

I just was looking at that this morning.

[A]

Yeah, there's seven films that are currently available. And, you know, the idea was, how can a space like Criterion honor everyone being excited for what is clearly the movie event of the summer? It's clear that especially some of these bodies washing ashore of other summer blockbusters that are not totally panning out, it does seem like there are a lot of people who are kind of saving their coin for the Odyssey. And so the films that you can find on the Criterion channel right now, which will be eligible in one of our categories, here are the Searchers, the Darjeeling Limited, Sullivan's Travels, Walkabout, the Straight Story, After Hours, and oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? And all of those stories, to some extent or another, are inspired by Homer's the Odyssey and Journeys Home, Journeys Back Somewhere. And I was very happy to do it. I love working with Criterion on stuff like that. Speaking of Criterion, I was just there at the mobile closet at the Hollywood bowl over the weekend where there was a huge Wes Anderson event where they transformed the Hollywood bowl into Wes Anderson World for a day, where you could listen to music in a vinyl room for three days. Excuse me. Right. The whole weekend. And I didn't get a chance to go to the concert.

[B]

I got to go last night, which was a delight and very charming. Hosted by Bill Murray and, you know, was a collection of the songs that have been featured on the soundtracks, performed by, in some cases, the actual artists.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[B]

And also the scores played by the orchestra. And there was a children's choir at one point. Oh, wow. Jackson Brown did these Days, which was, like, pretty. Pretty moving and, like, telling a story about how he. That song was not a thing until Tenenbaums. And he said he went to see the theater, see the movie in the theater. And he was like, I'm sure I'd given approval but didn't remember it. And then the song starts playing and he's like, I used to play guitar

[C]

like that

[B]

and then perform the song. So it was really magical. It was very exciting to go.

[A]

Yeah, that's great. So epic movies. What do you think makes a movie epic? Sierra, as you were thinking about this

[C]

project, you know, I could throw out some definitions, but this is. This is a real pornography one. This is like, you kind of know it when you see it. And I think that there can be epic movies.

[B]

Could have gone a lot of different ways.

[C]

I know.

[A]

Is there epic pornography?

[C]

That's a really good idea. Should we start making, like, four hour,

[A]

multilocational, $100 million pornos? Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What do you Think good business model.

[B]

Sure, that seems great.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You pay for your porn.

[C]

Well, morally and ethically.

[A]

That's right. Yeah. You pay God.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Sort of an Odysseus of Por.

[C]

I think that this is the kind of thing where you, you know, an epic when you see it. And there are sometimes films that might kind of have the trappings of an epic movie but fall short. And there are domestic chamber pieces I'm sure that you could call epic. But to me, I'm very curious to see with our picks, how left field and how argumentative we get with each other about whether something classifies as an epic. I thought that this was a very fun exercise to put them in their various categories.

[A]

I left it somewhat vague.

[C]

I think you have to think about the scope of the movie, though, to answer your question, I agree with you.

[A]

How do you think about these movies?

[B]

I think there can be a pretty literal definition, which is, number one, extras, the number of people actually in the film where you just get a person count background actors. I'm sorry, I know that's the preferred terminology, which is a way of measuring scope, to your point. But just the sheer number of crowd scenes, because they. They really went for it back in the day. And that is one of the things that is diminishing as we move to CGI crowds, which they just. The technology is not there. The crowd scenes are like a huge. They were better.

[C]

Like, it was better like 25 years ago.

[B]

Yeah, it's really, really, really bad. So if you. If you have actual people in a crowd scene and. And because that indicates also budget locations, you know, scope, all of these things. And then I think runtime. I think anything under two and a half hours is probably not on the scale.

[A]

I have been thinking about that because there is a category that speaks to that concern. But can a movie be two hours and eight minutes and be an epic? What do you think?

[C]

I don't think it's durational. I think it's. I don't know that I have anything that is that short, for instance. But I do think that it's about the multiplicity. For me, it's about the multiplicity of locations, the scope of the sort of landscape that you're covering. And then I think a lot of the genres that we think of as epic would be stuff like films about the Bible or films drawing from the Bible. Roman and Greek, classical sword and sandals movies, King Arthur movies, knights night, like those kinds of things. And then Westerns, I would say war

[A]

films and war films. So The Odyssey is 172 minutes, and we just had a chance to see it. And it is in the conversation for the most epic movie ever made. I don't know if it completely fulfills every single thing that you guys outline there. For example, I think even just sustaining the same number of background actors as the 1967 War and Peace. I don't know if anyone will ever do that again. There are certain kinds of movies where you just. They're not made in quite the same. Same way, but in terms of just traveling the world, the scope of the way that the battle sequences are made and the intensity of the production design. I hadn't seen the movie when I came up with this idea, but it fits. It now, I think instantaneously goes into that canon of these kinds of films. These kinds of films, though, I would say as I've watched more and more of them, as I've gotten older, you know, they're not always good. Like, just being big doesn't confirm any kind of greatness, and it confirms grandeur. But.

[C]

But I always kind of like them,

[B]

you know what I mean?

[C]

Like, even. Even, like how the West Was One, which has its ups and downs and is very, very long, I kind of marvel at. It's just its simple act of being. And I don't mind it being on in the background for long stretches. And I'll be like, oh, I can get up. Cause they're doing this now. But they'll get back to the. To the part that I like.

[A]

Do you like them as much?

[B]

I completely agree with Chris. And I was doing some refreshes because many of these I have only seen once or twice. Because you see it, you're like, okay. They really did get all that. That many people in one place.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With some cameras, I like. I get it. But a funny way to kind of speed wash through a couple was just anytime it's two people in a room, you're like, okay, whatever. Like, I don't care. I can just force the next set piece and the next time. That's just like the camp, you know, you get the vast expanse. But yeah, I mean, like, I am forever being, like, begging people to film in real places and to pay attention to production design and to all of the finery, the frippery of a movie. And sometimes they went too far. And I agree with Chris that they're not always good or it doesn't live up to the amount of money put into it. But it's really cool that they tried. I like it.

[C]

I mean, I think that way. I feel that way about seeing. I'm sure when I see Odyssey on. On imax. And I kind of feel that way about watching Ten Commandments on a small TV where I'm like, wow, this is really crazy, that ccp.

[A]

This is exciting to do that. Yes. Yeah.

[C]

I think it's fitting that we're probably doing this draft now because one of the things that's really been a theme of Matt Damon's rather extensive and globetrotting

[B]

press tour he is running is him

[C]

saying, big time, and I'll vote for him. I think this is the last one. I think this is the last one of these movies that I'll try to do or that may ever get made, you know.

[A]

Yeah, we'll touch that on the Odyssey episode. I do think that's a really interesting idea and I think it's related a little bit to, like, what is Christopher Nolan gonna do next? Because the escalation run that he's on now is quite fascinating. His films, some of his films may be eligible here. We can discuss. The Odyssey will not be eligible, though, because it has not yet been released. Okay, well, I'll share the categories before we set the draft order. Okay, so for those of you listening along at home, as I said, Odyssey inspired epics, which includes the eight films that were programmed for the Criterion Channel as well as other Odyssey inspired movies, will be eligible there.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The second category is Epic Best Picture winners. Now, this one could be interestingly fungible, is what I'll say. There are, I would say about five, no doubt, full blown epics that have won best picture.

[C]

There's 35 that you could have an argument about.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly right. The next category is Biblical Epics. The next category is romantic or war epic. Then we have Biopic Epic, which I think maybe undercuts some of your descriptors. I do think that there are some biopics that maybe don't traverse as many lands or feature as many extras, but could fit the bill. We can talk about that here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The next category is Movies that Exceed Three Hours, of which there are many. And then the last category is Wild Card. Okay. You guys feel good?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Shall we set the draft order?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, Jack, fire away.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Proper back to our old verse. Dungeons and Dragons Die. Here we go.

[B]

So the Toronto fiasco will. People will catch up on that. Well, was it really a fiasco?

[C]

I think it was a fiasco, yeah.

[A]

Drafting first is Christopher Ryan.

[B]

Okay, wow.

[C]

Interesting.

[B]

Once again,

[A]

drafting second is Sean Fennessy. Amanda Dobbins, third.

[B]

Okay, interesting.

[A]

I have no idea what the right, what the power rankings of this are, but you know what? Today's epic movie draft is presented by State Farm. Life is all about choices. Like deciding whether or not to check out the latest release in theaters at State Farm. Their goal is to help you make decisions that you feel good about. Speaking of good decisions, it's time for the first pick of the draft. Cr. You've got seven categories to plug into

[C]

and my movie could go into almost every one of them.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

But I'm gonna put it in movies over three hours.

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

I'm going to take what I think is the number one seed, which is Lawrence of Arabia.

[A]

Lawrence of Arabia. Okay. We knew that.

[C]

David Lean's masterpiece. One of my favorite movies ever made. If you get a chance ever, ever, ever to see this in 70 millimeter, do yourself a favor.

[B]

Can I just send a personal plea to American cinematic. I know it's a long movie, but like the 2pm 70 millimeter screenings of Lawrence Arabia, I just, I can't do it. It doesn't fit with my lifestyle and all I want to do is go and see this film. I just can't abandon my children for like the eight hours required to get to Santa Monica and see this movie. But I'm desperate to.

[C]

Some of the most awe inspiring shots and sequences in terms of real locations out in the desert, huge swaths of people storming Aqaba. Like amazing, amazing moments that you'll remember forever. But then these incredibly powerful intimate moments of people exchanging ideas and talking about their lives and going crazy out in the desert and blowing out matches and perhaps falling in love with one another. Intense. And all the things that happen in this movie and like a lot of epics is really two or three films. So I think in some ways, like the older I get, the more appreciation. It's kind of like a second half of Goodfellas thing where I actually quite like the last hour of this movie now. Whereas when I was younger I was like, once they're done really fighting the war, I lose interest and you know, I don't need to watch Anthony Quinn remind him of morality. But man, this, this film is, is one of the true heavyweight champions of the world when it comes to, to global filmmaking.

[B]

Can I tell you something? Sweet Knox watched a lot of this with me this afternoon. Yeah. Because he got home from a birthday party, from Alice's birthday party and then was like, whatcha watching? And just sat down and was transfixed for almost an hour. And I think, you know, it helps that there are, like, planes and camels and real things happening, which he responded to. But even through the parts where it's, you know, people talking in rooms which those you shouldn't fast forward through, those are amazing. Peter o' Toole forever. But, yeah, it held his attention.

[A]

I feel like this is the movie that every generation has been trying to live up to since. If you listen to the heavyweights of the new Hollywood, if you listen to the way that Spielberg and Lucas and Coppola talk about the movie, they're trying to live up to it. If you. Nolan screened this movie, or actually, I think Tom Holland screened this movie at their request.

[C]

It's Sony's print, right?

[A]

Yes. He had to go to Tom Rothman, who runs the studio that makes the Spider man movies to screen this before they made the Odyssey. They're not. I don't think they're similar movies. The Odyssey and Lawrence of Arabia, their scale and scope might be somewhat similar. I think they have different things on their mind to some extent. But it's interesting to have, like, a benchmark, you know, where you can look back at a movie that was made 65 years ago and say, we're still trying to get to this.

[C]

Yeah. I wonder if. I would imagine that for most people listening to this, if you close your eyes and I said, name an epic movie, this would be the first one that came to mind.

[A]

I think so. Although I have a couple of other ideas that may or may not get drafted here because I do think that each generation gets their own. You know, they get their own totemic, classic, or maybe even a couple. If you're born in the 1910s, you might see a few of these movies as the most meaningful. We may not agree on who will win this draft, but with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state. Okay, second pick. I'm trying to figure out what is the category of need. Right.

[C]

It's tough because so many things can bleed into different categories that I don't really feel like there's, like, a.

[A]

And the one that feels the most limited is Biblical Epic.

[C]

Depends on your definition of biblical.

[A]

Will you be stretching that definition later? This Dress?

[C]

It depends.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Well, I don't mean to wound Amanda, because I know she revisited this movie,

[B]

but, yeah, this is smart. I would have done it.

[A]

I think my best choice is to take the Last Temptation of Christ here, which is Martin Scorsese's adaptation of the controversial novel that portrays Christ in a more human like fashion, which is very much an epic story, very much a biblical epic, and told in a somewhat similar fashion to the Odyssey. It came up over the weekend in a piece in USA Today that Christopher Nolan said that he watched the movie and the way, for example, that Scorsese allows the actors to use their natural accents.

[C]

Hey, Jesus.

[A]

Harvey Keitel giving you real outer burrow, Judas. You know, the movie itself is beautiful and tremendously painful and a fascinating portrait of a, I think, a deeply spiritual person in crisis. You know, like, Scorsese was roundly castigated by the Catholic and Christian community for this movie. And it was supposed to be made in 1980, and then it was canceled and Paramount got cold feet and he had to fight. And it's sort of the story of his career to get this movie on screen. But what he ends up making, I think is not offensive at all, but is like a very sympathetic and sincere and deep portrait of what we imagine it means to be a faithful person, a person with deep moral integrity. And I've always thought it was a great movie. It's not the Scorsese movie that I've rewatched the most times, though. It's one of those. To your point about, you watch it once or twice and you're like, okay, this is a very. Literally, a cross to bear and not always the most fun thing. But this is, I think, an outlier in this category insofar as the era in which it was made and the kind of filmmaker that made it.

[B]

Right. And the tone and the. It was fascinating to rewatch it, having seen the Odyssey, knowing the influence but, you know, the interpretation of the main character, the hero.

[A]

Yeah, Christ and.

[B]

Sure, yeah, You've heard of it? Heard of him? No, it was great. It was definitely what I was gonna pick. But that's okay. You know, you win some, you lose some.

[A]

I would have probably taken it even if you hadn't told me. You just revisited it this morning.

[B]

Well, yeah, because biblical epics is a necessary but kind of annoying category once Last Temptation is off the board.

[A]

It was just such a. It's such a huge part of Hollywood history, you know, and it had a huge golden age. But how many of those films are actually good is an interesting conversation or

[B]

how many do you actually want to follow up?

[A]

Okay, Amanda, you got two picks.

[B]

Now I have two picks, and I guess I'm just gonna go with my heart here a little bit. Well, I know what I'm gonna do for the first one because it means a lot to me, and you've got a real soft spot for it. So. In romantic epic or war epic? This is both. I will take the English Patient, much maligned by Seinfeld and Sean Fennesee. When I made him watch it, it

[C]

was a pregnant moment there. I thought you said Gone with the Wing.

[A]

Chris has been celebrating the 4k announcement of gone with the Wind. It's a must. Add to his collection immediately. Is your home also Terror, too? What's the name of your house?

[B]

To anyone listening, Atlanta. We will not do a live show until the Terror Theater changes its name. Okay, so you guys organize Anyway. The English Patient is Anthony Minguela's adaptation of the Michael Andagi novel, and it famously beat Fargo. And some guys were mad, but not me, because I think this is an absolutely beautiful and like.

[A]

And.

[B]

And maybe one of the sexiest movies that I have ever seen. And I was of an impressionable age at this point. But the. There. There are two plot lines, but the Ralph finds Kristen Scott Thomas profile, Herodotus, you know, by the fire. That's just what I'm trying to be, and I'm never gonna get there. Aren't you, though? No, but it's like, I feel like

[C]

you would not be into a guy reading to you by.

[B]

Well, I'm not. She's telling the story, and she has everyone captive, you know, and she's got the blanket draped over.

[C]

So what's erotic to you is having everybody's undivided attention.

[B]

Exactly. Thank you for understanding that. But then. But then also the bathtub scene. Yes, sure. The Christmas party scene. Tough one. The naming of the winds.

[C]

Gosh.

[B]

You know, and then there's a time every year when it's daylight savings or daylight savings goes away, and it gets dark very early, and then the lights are all gone. And I'm writing alone to youo in the Darkness. I mean, this movie just fucking gets to me. I love it. It's beautiful. It obviously is paying homage and. Or stealing and not quite living up to David Lane, depending on your point of view, but I think it's a really good partner.

[C]

Pick with Last Temptation. It's a very modern sensibility attached to a very classical film.

[A]

Yes. Reactions. Hollywood history in some ways.

[B]

Yeah. But I Think it's wonderful. And I was not bored. Unlike Elaine, who is another person. Elaine Bennis does not like the English Patient in Seinfeld. I aspire to her.

[A]

I think it's fine. I really like Minguel as a filmmaker. It's not my favorite of his movies.

[B]

Heartless. You don't know what it is.

[A]

The romantic epic is a tricky thing. It's a really tricky thing. And it isn't my preferred mode of film, as listeners of the show know. The romance I kind of struggle with. Not that I don't love romance. You know, many are saying I'm a romantic at heart.

[B]

Yeah, that's what everyone says when they think of you. Yeah. This is a beautiful movie. Okay, so I have a second pick.

[A]

And

[B]

I'm trying to. I don't know how many of the other things I think you guys are gonna, like, rip away from me at this point. That's my real passion. And I wanted Last Temptation for tactical. Tactical reasons. But maybe, maybe I'll go with what I really want. And. And perhaps this will give us an opportunity to debate the definition of epic a little more. But in three hours or more, I'm. I'm. I'm going straight to the heart of both of you and taking jfk.

[A]

So, yeah, I do have it on the list.

[B]

I think it's. I think I have it on the list.

[A]

It's eligible.

[C]

Sure it is.

[A]

And let me ask you this. Yeah, it's certainly eligible in three hours or more. Is it eligible in biopic, but not as a portrait of Johnny. But is it a Jim Garrison biopic?

[B]

I think certainly that's plausible. I'm taking it in three hours or more.

[C]

I think this is a great pick

[B]

because I think that while it could be eligible in biopic, it obviously is more lasting and more honest as a fever dream about an entire generation of people not understanding what happened and going slightly crazy trying to figure out or

[C]

understanding it all too well.

[B]

Understanding it all too well and teaching the rest of us their secrets. I see you, Mr. X. So I love this film. Maybe not quite as much as you guys do, but like a lot.

[C]

I think we love.

[B]

And I love this episode of the Rewatchables more than Ed. This is my all time number one episode of the Rewatchables.

[C]

When Sean thought that the CIA was gonna kick down the door and arrest

[A]

him, I wanted to talk about the filmmaking.

[C]

We got there.

[A]

I thought that was the most extraordinary part of the film.

[B]

You did get there. But I mean, just Bill and Chris, just 30 minutes in.

[A]

And Brian.

[B]

And Brian as well. But, you know, I still have follow up questions for Bill about some of the things that he said. Anyway, Oliver Stones.

[A]

You think it was the Mafia? Who do you think did it?

[B]

What do you. You think that. That's right.

[A]

And the Mafia was hired by the CIA?

[C]

I think it was primarily, yeah. This a CIA operation.

[B]

Oh, you do know.

[C]

Extended to Cuban dissidents and the Mafia.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Extended to. Can you define that?

[C]

They brought them into the fold.

[A]

I see. How many.

[C]

But there's a lot of debate about

[A]

how many men who was calling the shots.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And how was the head of the sneak. If there was. It was. It was an idea that got out of control. Which is the.

[A]

DeLillo.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say I have. I read Libra a couple years ago and, like, points were made. You know, it's like, I understand it's plausible to me, but that's kind of everyone mingling together and taking advantage of.

[A]

I do think. I just feel like Mr. X was onto something. Maybe not in the details of what he shares, but in the manner in which he shares it. The fact that there is some sort of larger conspiracy in the world at large inside of government doors. I do believe in that. And this is not some QAnon thing.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

I think for 200 years this is how power operates. I've seen it up close and I'll never forget.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, I gotta make a pick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Hmm. Now, do you feel the need to be selecting epic old heavyweights? Like, obviously you've chosen one, and now we've chosen three fairly contemporary films. Here is it. Is there something just more centrally epic about a movie that was made 75 years ago?

[C]

I think the reason why they're still held, if not in high critical regard, like, oh, great film dude. Is just sort of like, you have to respect. Real horses died during making this, you know, like, you have to respect what we used to do. And we are losing the fine arts. We don't throw cars off of cliffs anymore. Stuntmen don't get dragged behind, you know, carts. Like, that's when you watch these movies, you are watching people literally put their lives on the line to entertain you. And there's. It's like jackass, you know, you have to respect it even if you don't like it.

[A]

Okay, with that in mind, then I will take Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai in movies that exceed three hours.

[C]

There you go. Big deal. There you go.

[A]

One of the largest scale productions ever. One of the longest movies commercially Released at the time.

[C]

Most movies ever.

[A]

Draft. Yeah, this came to mind when I was thinking of this idea. I was like, how many of these will be all time mega classics? But like we really have not talked about Seven Samurai that much on the show over the years. It doesn't fit.

[C]

We did it when we did Kurosawa, right? Didn't you?

[A]

When I do a Kurosawa, we did Mifune turning 100. So we watched a bunch of Mifune movies and talked about it. Of course Mifune is the star of this movie. Takashi Shimura. Many of the major stars of the Kurosawa films. This is the biggest. It's not my favorite, but it is the most. It's the most movie I think that he's ever made. Runtime exceeds 200 minutes. An epic story about seven men standing up against a massive army to protect a small town. Been reimagined and retold many times over the years through Hollywood eyes and elsewhere. Just a feast. An epic feast that is still being imitated to this day. And I don't know, I really love a long movie like I love a three and a half hour movie. If I like the movie, if I hate the movie, I'm not as angry about it as other people are. Sometimes you get like a very hostile reaction if you've got a long film that doesn't live up. But remember we talked about this a bit during the brutalist era where I was just like, just throw it on me, put another hour on it. I'm into it. So stuff like this. When I was younger, my friends would make fun of me for being like, I'm gonna watch Seven Samurai night when I was in high school, but I don't regret it now.

[B]

But the thing with an epic movie in particular is that it is told with the scale and intent for it to be large and have a lot of things and thus belong. That is part of the proposition. I get frustrated when it's a movie that really just. It could have been a tight 150, you know, and because of people not making choices or things just getting a little bloated, it the. The movie overruns. It's, you know, designated ideal time. But these are supposed to be big and I again, I like it when people try things.

[C]

Yeah, it's funny how like the mechanics of like one of the Star wars sequels while having a lot of the trappings of what would be an epic film, like didn't even occur to me to put in contention, you know, not that I would pick you know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean,

[C]

but you know what I mean. Yeah.

[A]

The Last Jedi, you say.

[C]

Not that I would pick it, but that goes to multiple. Not that you would huge scale because

[A]

that's not your Luke Skywalker or why would you not choose it?

[C]

What is it? Order 66. I'm an Order 66 truther.

[A]

Okay, Sierra, you've got two picks.

[C]

Okay. For romantic epic. Stay alive, I will find you. I'm going to play last the Mohicans here.

[B]

That's beautiful.

[C]

This is Michael Man's 92, I believe, adaptation of James Fenimore Cooper's Legend Legendary. Like it's a legend legendary book. It's, it's, it's one of the most sort of foundational US texts in fiction anyway. Also like is regarded I think well or remembered more for its battle scenes for Wes Duty's incredible performance as Magua. But like really the heart of the film is this romance between Daniel Day Lewis character and Madeleine Stowe's character. And you know, this is a guy from who's living out in the woods and has been raised by indigenous peoples and this British aristocrat comes over, this daughter of a British officer and yet they connect and have this kind of primal star crossed lovers thing. And he goes over waterfalls and up mountains to make sure she's okay. And that's what it's all about.

[B]

And that doesn't speak to you at all.

[A]

I will find you, love you, marry you. Yeah, sure. Of course. I'm a fan of this film.

[C]

Yeah, it's a pretty good movie.

[A]

It's an hour and 50 minutes.

[B]

Well, it's okay.

[C]

You don't think this is epic.

[A]

I do think.

[B]

Listen, rules are made to be perfect.

[A]

That's why I asked that question.

[C]

And Michael Mann drove people totally insane making where he was just like you have to, you know, weave that, that quilt and cobble that shoe.

[A]

There's only one thing that could have made this movie better. Do you know what it is? Score by audio slave that would have really improved it otherwise. Great film. Great pick. You got another pick. Cr.

[C]

I have such a desire to mix it up in terms of era.

[A]

You did a nice thing there by you both did you weaved romantic and war epic into the same. Do I have to do the same? Should it have been romantic war epic?

[B]

I mean which romantic epics don't involve war or great strife and loss?

[A]

That's a very interesting.

[B]

They are like intrinsic. Not all war epics have a romance strife.

[A]

Yes, sure. You know Titanic, it's Not a war.

[B]

Yeah, that's true. Well, it's a class war, you know?

[A]

Amen. Amen, sister. That's absolutely right. You were siding with Billy Zane. We all know it.

[B]

It

[C]

for biographical epic.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm gonna go Malcolm X.

[B]

Okay. I wanted this. I was hoping it would still be there.

[A]

God damn it.

[C]

So we're really.

[A]

That might have been my next pick,

[C]

smash in the 90s. But the reason why I was drawn to this, not only because it's just one of the great American films, is also because of. It pulls off the most difficult task of one of these movies, which is to convincingly take someone from a very young age to the end of their life and not have it feel boring or Wikipedia. And you are so rooted in Malcolm X's subjectivity throughout this movie. The film's color scheme and musical identity changed throughout the years and throughout the decades and throughout his changing consciousness. And it's one of the great performances, I think, in movie history from Denzel Washington.

[B]

Absolutely.

[C]

But it also actually feels like a story where someone starts someplace and ends someplace else else on every possible level of humanity. And had to grab this one here.

[B]

That was a good pick. I was going to do that, so good job. It's interesting.

[C]

I mean, we have so many films, but there are some cream of the crop ones, I guess.

[A]

Yeah. There's going to be a long list of honorable mentions. It's interesting. I mean, we're betraying our generational favor, I would say, by some of these picks. I'll do it with my pick as well. I'm going to choose in the same category, biopic Epic. And I'll take Amadeus, which is kind of a duel biopic in a way, and told in the list.

[B]

It's okay. I got one more. It's gonna be okay.

[A]

Told in an unusual fashion, based on Anthony Schaeffer's play, directed by Milo Forman. It's the story.

[C]

The series is pretty good. By the way, the one that just came out.

[A]

Yeah, I haven't watched that yet. Who's the star?

[C]

Bettany.

[A]

Oh, Paul Bettany. And is he playing Salieri?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so, yeah, that makes sense of his age at this point.

[C]

And Will Sharp is.

[B]

Oh, fun.

[A]

So this is the story of Mozart and Salieri, two Viennese composers, through the eyes of Salieri, sort of in the aftermath of. He's just attempted suicide and he's survived. And so he starts telling the story of his life and career through the prism of watching Mozart rise to genius in real time in this Complex battle between his admiration for Mozart's evidence greatness and his jealousy and the way that the jealousy is sort of like he constantly is kind of working to undermine Mozart in the face of the court and failing. Very fun performance from Tom Hulse as Mozart. Very ecstatic at a time when it seemed like Tom Hulse really had Hollywood in the grip of his hand. And yeah, I mean, of course, F. Murray Abraham won an Academy Award for his performance as Salieri and. And maybe the biggest movie that Forman ever made. Forman. No stranger to an epic, but just an amazing film. And one of those films that you hear about when you're a young person that actually lives up. That lives up to its AFI 100 films billing.

[C]

Is it in bio or an Oscar?

[A]

I'm taking a biopic. Although you could take it an Oscar as well. Yeah.

[B]

At the Hollywood bowl last night, I saw that they're doing Amadeus live in concert this summer. Would be very fun. Yeah, the music, that's good. Okay.

[A]

Is it the LA Phil performing?

[B]

I believe so, yeah.

[A]

Risen from the grave.

[C]

AI Mozart. We brought him back.

[A]

AI Mozart. Wow. I'm sure millions of people are doing that.

[C]

It's like a Waymo robot being like.

[B]

Okay, all right.

[A]

Okay. So how long is Amadeus? Let's take a quick look. It is longer. 161 minutes.

[B]

Yeah. Longer than I remember.

[A]

Pretty much long. Okay. You've had two taken away from you.

[B]

So I've. I've learned in that I got to lock my biopic down. So in Biopic epic, I will take Reds.

[C]

There you go.

[B]

The 1981 Warren Beatty film that we talked a great deal about on the Diane Keaton hall of Fame because it stars Beatty, Dan Keaton, Jack Nicholson. This also obviously would be eligible in romantic epic because you would if you were mind scene. Really very special. And then I guess could be eligible. Well, romance and war are the same thing. So this is another one where it's political. Yeah. Fits the same struggle.

[A]

I should have taken it. What was I doing?

[B]

Not eligible in Best Picture winner because it lost to Chariots of Fire. But does this count as modern? This feels, you know, newer than 50s, but it is also feels a very different generation than ours.

[A]

It's an interesting pick because I think the conversation that we want to have about the Odyssey, we'll never be able to make movies like this again. I think there was some sense of that around a movie like Reds at the time. And one of the reasons it was so honored was because it was like, well, this is like the culmination of 10 years of greatness that Hollywood's been churning out with these kind of unabashed auteurs, and they're taking these huge chances on epic canvases. So, I don't know, can't ever close the book on them. But this is an amazing movie.

[B]

Incredible movie and definitely over three hours long. So I guess it would have been eligible in many of the categories.

[A]

Yeah. I would like to See you featured 30 years from now in a similar fashion, the way Henry Miller's featured in this movie. Testimonial style. What would you be taught? Like, what would they be bringing you in to talk about? Henry Miller, the novelist. He's one of the witnesses who speaks about.

[C]

Eugene o' Neill is in it. Right.

[A]

He is a character in it. But Henry Miller is interviewed as one of the people who witnessed John Reed. And you two, I'm asking you, what do you think you would be asked to speak about? Do you think there's going to be a film.

[C]

I'm going to.

[A]

An epic film about me and Amanda?

[B]

I think I would look great in those hats. I think that that would work out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Diane Keaton is just like on the tundra alone for a good solid point of 20 minutes of this movie.

[C]

She's unbelievable in this movie. So good. Good. I didn't hear the. The hall of Fame.

[B]

It didn't. Yeah, Reds did. Don't worry.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, it made it. Don't worry. What is it? Ushanka. What are those hats called with the flaps and the big.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Did hers have flaps? I don't know about that.

[A]

Anyway, could be a. A Cossack. But isn't a Cossack something else as well? Aren't they violent marauders?

[B]

We did explore on that episode how our knowledge of Russian literature and culture is limited.

[A]

It is quite limited. Yeah. Yours is robust.

[C]

It's really jagged, though. So, like, I have a. About several tomes. Half finished.

[A]

You're right. 12, 19 through Anakin and.

[C]

Right. And then I watched Star City to completion.

[A]

That's good. Pushkin.

[C]

Never.

[B]

Never dabbled.

[C]

Turgenev.

[A]

No, not so much. Not done it.

[B]

Okay. So I have a second pick here, and I don't know whether to be pushed.

[C]

Turgenev Drive by Vanda.

[B]

I should just saying I did.

[A]

I didn't, you know, just haven't read it.

[B]

Haven't read it. So I could be strategic or I could kind of go with my heart here. And I think. I don't know. I think it's it's already been mentioned so. In Epic Best picture winners. Well, I don't know. What should I do?

[A]

Oh, boy. Oh, my goodness.

[C]

You know, you rarely see the queen sweat a zigzag.

[A]

She is unsure.

[B]

Well, I just. I. I guess I should do. Honestly, what's your color story?

[C]

What do you want to say about yourself at this pick?

[B]

Well, I've already said what I want to say with English Patient and Reds and jfk, which just features a lot of really hot people as some of them are solving conspiracies and the others

[A]

are having Tommy Le Jones. Absolutely. Some of the hottest shit you'll ever see.

[B]

Love triangles, you know, so.

[C]

Among other things.

[B]

Yeah, right. That's true.

[A]

Insane wig work in there. Yeah.

[C]

Love triangle between the CIA and.

[B]

Exactly. You know what?

[A]

The greatest love affair of all.

[C]

Yeah. Guys, put numbers up.

[B]

I. That's. That's my color story. Our love triangles. And this doesn't really.

[C]

You should pick with your heart.

[B]

I mean, the. My heart also does have a love triangle.

[C]

Did you get biblical yet?

[B]

No, that's the thing. Should I do biblical? I'm going to do biblical. Yeah. So I'm going to take Ben. Her, because Whatever. But the chariot scene. Yeah. Is. That's. That's pretty awesome.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

You know, speaking of forces who die, I rip to them so many of them. It's really insane that they did that and for how long they did that. And it's incredibly memorable.

[C]

Do you think Cecil B. DeMille would recognize Hollywood today and its woke culture?

[A]

Interesting question. Yes. You know, I watched Ben Hur for the first time during COVID Okay. I'd never seen it before. And I say this with respect. I was surprised how gay it was. It's a shockingly homoerotic film about men sort of returning from war to be reunited and this sort of like, brother in his eye and, like, clutching each other in very dramatic fashion. And obviously, there's something in a lot of biblical storytelling that has that.

[B]

Then they parade around with horses.

[A]

But there's a lot of sort of epic passion for lost love amongst men. It's a huge part of the film.

[B]

You don't relate to that.

[A]

I get it. I get it. You know, as somebody who has deep bonds with male friends. Yeah. Ben Hur, I would say intermittently great. But when it's great, its greatness is like the ceiling. Right. In terms of, like, epic Hollywood filmmaking.

[B]

Of course. Yeah. So you fast forward through to get the vistas and the chariot race. And then when it's Charlton Heston in A dark room kind of. Of recreating a Rembrandt with someone else. You're like.

[A]

I'm like, he's in a stable and he's got his hand on a man's shoulders. And you're like, you guys are really close to each other right now.

[C]

What's so great about it being on during the holidays when it would just be on TNT for 24 hours, is it was completely like. I have no recollection at all of what the narrative is. And whenever Chuck would go into a dark room, I'd just get another turkey sandwich.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I was strategic.

[A]

So is it back? To me, it is.

[C]

Sheesh. Well,

[A]

I'm really betwixt and between, I guess for romantic or war epic, I'll take the Deer Hunter, which I think is a war epic, is it not?

[C]

Of course it is very romantic.

[A]

It's very romantic.

[C]

We don't have a war epic category, do we?

[A]

I have romantic or war dynamic?

[C]

War, yeah.

[B]

You have to do romance.

[C]

Gotcha.

[B]

But you did anyway.

[A]

I did, yeah. That's why I was saying when you chose Last of the Mohicans, you kind of shifted.

[C]

The romantic part of Last of the Mohicans is when he tears his fucking heart out and shows it to everybody.

[A]

That's true love. Michael Cimino's best picture winning would also be eligible in Best Picture. Story of four friends from a steel town in Pennsylvania who fall in love with their girlfriends. One of them gets married, and then they go to Vietnam and terrible things happen there, and they're forced to live with the trauma and PTSD of what they did there and what happened to them. And some of them don't really come back. Some come back, but none of them really come back. Beautiful movie. Robert De Niro, Meryl Streep, Christopher Walken, John Savage. Yeah, I mean, it's, I think, also sort of similar to Amadeus. Sort of redefines how you might think about a war movie. This isn't a movie that is defined by its battlefields. It's defined by everything surrounding those experiences. But very much of its time, very much commenting on a group of young men who were just coming back from Vietnam. And it's sort of like the flip side to other big epic movies like Apocalypse now, which may come up in this conversation. And a movie that I've always really loved. And it's kind of the end, in a way, for Cimino because he makes Heaven's Gate next, and that augurs the end of that Red's era that we're talking about. And I did just pick up his film, Desperate hours in Canada. Is that the Mickey Rourke.

[C]

Mickey Rourke kidnapping movie?

[A]

That's right.

[C]

I like that film.

[A]

Yeah, I do too. I got it on Blu ray.

[B]

What did van Mickey Rourke on the draft that we did, I was just.

[A]

Tough hang.

[B]

I don't know. No, it was funny. Anyway, Good boxer.

[C]

Good boxer. I really have no idea.

[A]

He was probably a good boxer.

[C]

Was he?

[A]

Yeah, he was a boxer.

[C]

He was just more than I ever did.

[A]

He was also the pope of Greenwich Village.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

Were you ever the pope of a neighborhood? Hillhurst, right now you are the pope of Hillhurst. You are.

[C]

No, I don't have that kind of sway on Hillhurst.

[B]

You're Elvis.

[C]

It's not like they see me coming in.

[B]

Listen, there is nothing more fun than walking down Hillhurst.

[A]

That's right. It was 2015.

[B]

Men in short jackets. Sir, Sir. Such a big fan. I never do this.

[A]

It was early. It was January 2015. We went to little Dom's, me, Wylene and Phoebe. The ringer had not even started yet. And you know, I think we had a couple of penicillins. You know, I like to have the penicillin at little Dom's and maybe, maybe some meatballs, maybe some arancini. And we walked out and three of those chore coated men that Amanda was describing came out. They all had beards of some fashion. Yeah, you could tell they were really into craft cocktails.

[B]

As if you're not. 2015 just name checked a penicillin.

[A]

They rewatched band of brothers like every two years. And they were named like Tyler, Lyle and Keith.

[C]

Keith.

[A]

Perfect. And they grabbed you by the shoulders and they said, sir, your great works will live on in me. Thank you for everything you've done. And lo, here you are. We've launched so much around that, you know, you are. You're a beautiful ship.

[C]

Yeah, that's right.

[A]

Okay, you got picks.

[B]

Okay, you just have one pick.

[C]

No, I have several.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Two. Right?

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm just really sitting on the.

[A]

You gotta. You gotta wait for a little while. Amanda, what categories you have? Chris, do you know?

[C]

Yeah, I have Oscar. Well, remaining. You mean Oscar, Biblical and Wildcard.

[B]

And what about Odyssey Inspired?

[A]

Epic.

[C]

So we have four more picks left. Yeah, well, for Odyssey inspired, I'm gonna go with the Searchers, which is John Ford's version. Heard of it?

[A]

Heard of it, yeah.

[C]

That is about the cost of going home or the cost of trying to get back home. This is a film about John Wayne's character, Ethan, who is not really fit for the increasingly modernized and civilized Wild west, going to, quote, unquote, rescue his niece from Apaches, I believe, when she's been. When she was kidnapped as a child. And it's an incredible epic tale of going out and coming back. But what it costs the people who do it and the myths that they tell themselves about why they're doing what they're doing. And I know it's like a somewhat controversial film in some ways, but it's is honestly one of the most amazing things to look at that I've ever seen on a screen.

[B]

Great.

[A]

4K was back in the news for one battle after another. Of course, many overt acknowledgments of kidnapped young girl. And there's an Apache figure who figures prominently in the story. Huge framework for the movie.

[C]

So I'll take that. In movies inspired by the Odyssey. And then in Best Picture Epic, I'm going to go double lean and I'm going to take Bridge on the River Kwai.

[A]

Ooh, look at you.

[C]

So 57. And this is Dopeline.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is David lean's World War II epic.

[A]

Do you think D.J. screw liked David Lean films?

[C]

I don't see why not.

[A]

Probably right. Just leaning back on some Promethazine.

[C]

I wish he would have sampled some William Holden dialogue from this movie.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Alec Guinness and William Hawk. William Holden and Jack Hawkins playing prisoners of war in World War II. And they gotta build a bridge, you know, and some. Sometimes that's a foolish thing to do.

[B]

Do you think you'd be good at building a bridge?

[C]

I think I would be good at getting people excited about the project, the engineering aspect. And honestly, you know what? What I think I do feel like this is probably my last couple years that I can carry planks of wood and stuff like that before I enter my wife keeping me propped up in a hospital bed with a newspaper to prove that I'm alive.

[B]

Yeah,

[C]

He's alive.

[A]

I love Virgin. The River Kwai.

[C]

I love this film.

[B]

Were you going to take it?

[A]

I forgot to write it down.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I just forgot.

[B]

Yeah. So here's. So let me bring you out.

[A]

I probably would have taken it three rounds ago.

[B]

Let me. Let me. Let me bring you up to speed, Chris. So.

[C]

So you guys, I got the van on. On Friday.

[B]

You dropped us. That's where I was starting. You dropped us off at first terminal. You continue on your way to. To live your east coast light Terminal three.

[C]

And

[A]

we

[B]

sat in the lounge and like, sort of talked to each other, sort of looked at our phones. It was a nice time.

[A]

Thanks to Amanda, not me.

[B]

We get on the plane and I think, like, plane Sean is about to be upon us. You know, I've prepared the inbox. I've prepared my mental state to get ready for plane Sean, he held it at bay while we waited for the plane, which I appreciated. And then we get there and I'm getting ready to do all my prep for this draft. No wifi. WI fi. No WI fi To be had. Five hours, nothing but my own brain.

[C]

Small talk.

[B]

Well, we weren't sitting together.

[C]

Oh, too bad.

[B]

Yeah. And we didn't really, so. No, I slept.

[A]

Yeah, I just raw. Dogged it the whole time. Hands in my lap.

[B]

Anyway, so that means.

[A]

No, it's not true. What I did is I watched the Guy Ritchie film In the Gray.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I had a nice time.

[C]

Was that on the like.

[A]

No, I downloaded it on my laptop for just the. This.

[C]

Just this occasion in case of emergencies.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And what. And did you read Raden Keith?

[B]

No, I've already read the Rat and Keef. It's really good. Yeah. I tried to have a whole conversation with you about it.

[A]

I know.

[B]

This is what. What happened to us.

[C]

I don't. We just. We were off sync, that's all.

[B]

I know, but we talked about this, and I was like. It really helped me understand London, you know? I know. It's just like one person's story, I guess. It's when you were giving me the News Digest about Captain Pinhead or whatever.

[C]

Captain Bin Count. Bin Face. Yes, Captain Pinhead.

[A]

Pinhead from Hellraiser. Is he figuring into British folks?

[C]

I don't understand what I did in the van ride out there that was so controversial.

[B]

Well, you just. At some point, you didn't think we were funny anymore.

[A]

Here's what I remember. We were talking about things that would be on each other's family crest.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And the things that would be on my crest that I described sincerely were chicken, which I love. Chicken. Remembering the good times that would be represented somehow. And then a third thing of indiscriminate memory.

[B]

I don't remember what that was.

[C]

You know what it is, is I think before a live show, you guys have to be 1000% yourselves. And you're like, I must buy media. And you're like, I have to buy a Celine dress.

[B]

And then like, that's so nice.

[C]

As soon as it's over, you're like, I'm a fucking goofball. And I'm like, well, I've still got work to do out there.

[A]

Yeah, you do.

[C]

I'm Chris Ryan, 24 7.

[A]

You got to shake Tyler and Keith's hand and look them in the eye and make their day. Okay, you have another pick, right? You took Bridge on the River Kwai

[C]

and what was the other one?

[A]

The Searchers. Oh, the Searchers. Wonderful. Those are good films. Yeah, I picked up.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

I've heard of those films. Okay. Odyssey inspired epics. I'll take O Brother or Earth, though, which is a film I feel like I keep overlooking. And I'm glad it's kind of becoming your brand, though.

[B]

When we talk about Wes Anderson is to be like, and what about the Darjeeling Limited? So it's good that you did this here.

[A]

Well, this is sort of my Darjeeling Limited for the Coens. Right. The movie that, like, I overlooked and maybe didn't take as seriously. Yeah.

[C]

The real ones know Darjeeling Limited is like, kind of high up there for Wes.

[A]

But that took years to happen. Upon release, it was. Everybody was like, oh, actually, Wes Anderson, Are we sure? And now you go back, you know, look, you know, Claire de Lune drops let's Get High, and they're around the fire, like, that's the real shit. Wes is the man. I gotta say, when I was at the bowl thing, everybody wandering around was like, we all know Asteroid City is the one. There was like a lot of that going on, which is nice. Nice to be amongst your people.

[C]

Grown men crying, whispering, yes.

[A]

Talking to my five year old. Oh, brother, where art Thou Is? Of course not, Wes. It's the Coen brothers.

[B]

Oh, wait, I thought you picked or dealing Limited. Sorry, I was looking at my list. I'm sick. It's still available.

[A]

It's still available.

[B]

Okay, great.

[A]

Brother. Art Thou is. Is the Odyssey. In many ways it is. It's also the tale of the Soggy Bottom Boys and a trio of aspirant. How would you describe their music? Bluegrass? Hillbilly? Bluegrass? Yeah.

[C]

Gospel tinged bluegrass, I guess.

[A]

Hysterical movie. Ingenious construction around Homer's epic poem, but with a very specific. Cohen's set of humor and pathos, I guess. George Clooney, Never better.

[C]

Tim Blake Nelson. Incredible in this.

[A]

John Turturro Goodman. Wonderful cast all around.

[C]

Goodman's in this, right?

[A]

Yeah, he's like the Cyclops esque figure. And yeah, I love this movie. It's a great one. It's honestly probably worth a revisit after seeing the Odyssey and just seeing just how close it is in the episodic. Fashion of the Nolan film.

[C]

The Cohens really robbed us because when they broke up, I feel like we haven't really gotten to pod about them as much as we would have.

[A]

No, we did. I did Buster Scruggs with Adam.

[B]

I remember.

[A]

And then that was the. That's their last film, so. Yeah.

[C]

Did we do Hail Caesar? Was that how.

[A]

Nope, before that came out. Before the. Before the show started. 2016, right?

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

Hell, Caesar, I think it was like first year of the Ringer when it came out.

[B]

Saw it at the arclight when that still existed.

[A]

Yeah, they're the greatest. I got my fingers crossed on Jack of Space. The Ethan films hasn't been going so well, Joel. We've really only gotten Tragedy of Macbeth.

[C]

But when are we going to get EPMD back together?

[A]

Great question. I mean, hopefully soon. Is that Ethan and Joel making dollars? Ejmd. Ejmd. That would be pretty good. All right, Amanda, you've got two picks. So Darjeeling is on the board for you.

[B]

Well, good. I was looking at my list. So in Odyssey inspired epics, I would like to put forth the wizard of Odyssey.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Which is about a girl getting home. So, you know, maybe not. It doesn't speak as much to the other people on this table.

[A]

Are girls allowed to be in these movies?

[C]

Does Daniel Day Lewis save her?

[B]

But I mean, otherwise has all of the hallmarks. There is no place like home. Gets waylaid by various weird people and drugs and a mythology of a world that she is not totally familiar with, but learns over time with the help of various deities.

[A]

A Cambellion hero's journey.

[B]

Yeah. So there we go. The wizard of Oz. Pretty good movie. Don't go to the Sphere version. See the whole thing, please.

[A]

Yeah, I think watch it in full and then go to the Sphere. Sure would be interesting. Yeah, but don't start there.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That would be a weird way to start.

[B]

Exactly correct. But, you know, Darjeeling Limited was going to be my backup. Okay.

[A]

And then that's all you got to say about the wizard of Oz, huh?

[B]

Well, I think we've talked about it once or twice. I have compared it to the Odyssey, which was the parameters of my pick in this one. Yeah. What a beautiful movie.

[C]

Yeah, I love it.

[A]

It's my favorite movie.

[B]

I know. Why didn't you pick it?

[A]

I didn't think about it. I didn't have WI FI on the plane.

[C]

You just didn't. You forgot all the Oscar nominers.

[A]

I didn't have WI FI on the plane. I Don't know what you told me

[C]

to say, that this movie was robbed by Gone with the Wind.

[B]

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I like, I understand the accomplishment has gone with the win.

[C]

It is.

[B]

It is a great film.

[A]

Hateful history, no doubt.

[C]

There's a lot of really rich clipping material you're providing people today.

[A]

You're probably right.

[C]

The Bible is gay that Gone with

[A]

the Wind is great. I mean, both things can be true.

[C]

I agree there's lots of really amazing stuff in Gone with the Wind, but

[B]

the wizard of Oz, you know, this single moment of it going from black and white to color is just like, you know, it has become a stand in for or like a shorthand for, like a transformative experience. But that's what it was for movies as well, so.

[A]

And you know, it's beautiful they share a director, sort of. Victor Fleming is a credited filmmaker on both films. Right. Even though the wizard of Oz had like four filmmakers attached to it. Okay, so you have gone with Wind. Did you take a second choice as well?

[B]

Okay, so epic best picture winners.

[C]

You may have backed yourself into a bit of a corner here.

[B]

No, I don't think so. No, I think I'm gonna do. So are we not counting Godfather Part 2 as an epic?

[A]

It is an epic for sure.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm gonna take Godfather Part 2. You're just nodding your head.

[C]

I was kind of hoping you would have to take Patton.

[A]

There's a lot left, I think.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot I'm picking from other good things. But this is, I still think, the single greatest screen performance, alpacino in Godfather 2 that I have seen. I mean, there are many good ones out there, but I picked this one

[A]

and I thought you were going to say Abe Vagoda. Also a good performance.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I think, you know, as to its epic qualities. It's multigenerational. Multi. Multiple locations. Sure.

[C]

Sweet.

[B]

Jumps time. Yeah. Jumps at international things. Crisis of. Of. Of family and of life and death. And also the CIA or the. Or the mob is somewhat involved. So we. There was over the Godfather. We have this conversation every time we talk about this.

[A]

But in this, like, in this format, you would take it over.

[C]

I actually think she's right because it has the flashback.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That doesn't. You think it makes him more epic?

[B]

I do. To me it does. Because of the time quality.

[A]

I mean, he goes to Italy.

[C]

Sure, sure.

[B]

Yeah. But it's like they blow that car. They do. That's very upsetting.

[C]

Nobody's in the car.

[A]

No. Well, you and Bill spoke very specifically about that young actress.

[C]

I don't think we were aware of what we were saying at the time.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I could neither confirm nor deny that I was aware.

[A]

I see. All right, continue on.

[B]

Yes. I feel for the purposes of this exercise, part two is more epic. And part two is really good.

[A]

Hades will remember.

[B]

So is part one. You know, they're both really good.

[C]

What about part three?

[A]

What is the longer runtime? I don't know the answer to that.

[C]

I got two.

[A]

Two, probably three.

[B]

Longer runtime.

[C]

No. Right.

[A]

255 for the Godfather and 322 is

[B]

what I'm looking at for Godfather part two.

[C]

And what's three? Just out of curiosity.

[B]

Didn't Google that.

[A]

Three is nine hours, two hours, 40 minutes. Yeah. As you know, three is good.

[C]

Yeah. It's not bad.

[A]

I'm not really. I really enjoy it. And it has flaws. Sure. You know. You know, it also has flaws. The Bible. These things have flaws.

[B]

You're so right.

[A]

Thank you. Nice to hear that out loud.

[C]

Clip that.

[B]

I say I was wrong. I say you were wrong.

[A]

When those things apply, which is frequently. Okay, you've gotten two films.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I'm gonna take a film.

[B]

The wizard of Oz and the Godfather Part ii. Just really slumming it over here.

[A]

Crazy, crazy draft, epic Best picture winners. I'll tell you what. I'll take the Lord of the Return of the King, the rare fantasy film that neatly fits into this.

[B]

So in that one, he gets the ring. Who's he?

[C]

Who's he?

[B]

Gollum. The ring goes.

[A]

No, the ring goes the ring into the volcano.

[C]

He touches the ring from for one scene.

[B]

Sauron.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

No. Sauron is the. He's the villain.

[B]

Three people.

[C]

No, I don't think you're being serious. I think you know more than you're letting on.

[A]

Isn't this a great movie, this movie? Yeah.

[C]

It's the third best of the trilogy.

[B]

Wow. He's turning into.

[A]

I think that's right. I think that's right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I am most swept up in the Fellowship of the Ring. I think Two Towers has the most. Most epic battles.

[C]

That's got Helms deep, but three is

[A]

really satisfying until you get to the third ending, and then they're like, hold on, two more endings. Do you know how long the extended version of the Return of the King is? The extended version that people have?

[C]

It's like four hours long. Right?

[A]

4 hours and 13 minutes. She's never seen it.

[C]

Do you know which.

[B]

Yes, I have.

[C]

Do you know what the Towers are.

[A]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Don't tell her.

[B]

You're going to be so mad. I saw. I saw Two Towers into Return of the King, like, in college, and it wasn't for a boy, also because that was not the flavor that I was going for.

[C]

Why were you crying?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Why are you crying?

[B]

Because I was trying not to laugh as you guys just said Lord of the Rings words to each other.

[A]

We didn't even geek out.

[C]

Would you have made Fellowship of the Ring available for movies inspired by the Odyssey?

[A]

I don't think so, because it doesn't complete it. You can't pick the trilogy, right?

[C]

It would need to be the trilogy. Start whining about going home.

[A]

That's true. If you were given prime real estate in the Shire, would you take it?

[C]

Oh, the Shire is an incredible investment opportunity. And what LA neighborhood compare it to? I would feel like Wemby at the Shire because those guys are all four feet tall. So I'd be like, yeah, you guys

[B]

want to play Pick.

[C]

You had to be dunking on Frodo. You're like a bitch. You wish you fell in that volcano, dog.

[A]

That's good. Yeah, that's funny.

[B]

Remember the photo of. I think it was Paul Mescal and Andrew Scott and like our greatest.

[C]

If the hobbit.

[A]

Shortest Irish laughs.

[B]

Yeah, that's the hobbits after Shire open to Zara. It's really very good.

[C]

Good.

[B]

Good job.

[C]

Whose turn is it now?

[A]

Your turn.

[C]

I have.

[B]

How's my laptop going?

[C]

Pretty well.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I mean, I feel definitely like I'm just hanging on your every word, you know?

[B]

Okay.

[C]

You know, and not getting distracted by no laptop.

[A]

You've drafted three men and a little lady and heartburn in the epic movie draft.

[C]

Here, let's. Let's spice it up a little bit.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Let's throw a little cayenne in here and let me see how much you guys like me, because in biblical epic, I'm going to take Kingdom of Heaven. The director's cut. I think that that's not technically about

[B]

the Bible, but Crusades. And in defense of.

[C]

I wondered whether you. Because of the Bible, if you don't have the Bible, there is no Kingdom of Heaven. You say what?

[B]

The Crusades, though, are not enumerated in the Bible, which is a point of contention amongst people.

[A]

I will allow it because I did not define biblical epic by saying it must be. Stories of the Bible represent. It is a war over the Bible.

[B]

That's just because he likes you and also because he thinks the Bible Has a lot of, you know, homoerotic tendencies and he's showing his love.

[A]

Well, the filmic representations of the stories,

[B]

you know, I mean, biblical is right there in the title, but I, I think it's fine.

[C]

Well, I had said, do you. I texted you and said, do you think we should put. Make this religious epic? Because that way it's more non denomination. Oh, okay.

[A]

So you could just.

[B]

Well, why don't you say that to

[C]

old Hollywood, Kingdom of Heaven. You know, it's a spiritually religious epic. You know, it's not necessarily a book of the Bible, but rooted in it.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's okay. The extended version. I don't think you should be able to choose.

[B]

Why?

[C]

Why not?

[A]

Because that was just like. That wasn't released theatrically, right?

[C]

What?

[B]

That's what you're standing on right now.

[A]

We're not choosing extended editions.

[B]

First of all, you're just, just absolutely. You're stabbing Joanna in the heart right now. And I say that as someone who thought that, but I was. I thought that you made the correct decision. I thought it was very, very apparent.

[C]

Yeah, it's kind of like setting this guy off previous simulation. It's like it hurts, but you have to do it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, we're not talking about that.

[B]

But then you're going to allow him

[A]

to after flop central from Argentina for five straight matches for this podcast.

[C]

If we gave you yellow and red cards and you could start showing.

[A]

Yeah. You'd be sent off for five minutes in every episode.

[C]

And then maybe, like, if we, like, disagree with it, you would go to var.

[B]

Just me, only I get the yellow cards.

[C]

You're the most referee of us, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think you would get the biggest thrill sending me on.

[B]

I would. I mean, I would. I've been begging for props, you know, and yellow and red cards have become a big deal in my house, but they're, for whatever reason, Knox thinks of them as tickets. So he just, he's like, sigh, gets a red ticket and then just like runs away. So, yes, I think that's great. The thing here is, I mean, biblical epic is very clear. You know, this, this folds like.

[C]

I don't know, let's see the peanut gallery.

[B]

There's no appeal process here, like, in a court of law. Like, I don't, like, I don't know what we're doing, but I like that he wants to give it to you because of friendship, but then that's not why the reason that he's going to disqualify it Is because of theatrical runs rather than the very obvious title.

[C]

The Director's Cut had a roadshow.

[A]

Is that true?

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Where?

[C]

At theaters? At some theaters.

[A]

Which theaters? Name?

[C]

I think, like, it was at, like, the Arrow.

[A]

You might be right. You might be right. I'm looking it up right now.

[C]

What happened? You really lost your fastball.

[A]

It's been an insane five days, honestly.

[B]

But it started when you were just like, I don't care what's happening to Leos and the planets.

[C]

That was just really. Can I. I'll just say.

[A]

Tell you what.

[C]

I don't remember you ever talking about astrology this much.

[B]

And I think, well, that's because the planets were not aligned in our favor until yesterday was the day. July 12th was when we were supposed to start taking action. I don't remember what I did to take action but it's a long process until 2028 sometime.

[C]

So you guys are gonna be taking action until 2028?

[B]

Yeah. And then. And everything is aligned for us. And I was trying to tell Sean about that, my fellow Leo and you were like, get out of here.

[A]

If I haven't been taking action before, I don't know what else I can do. I feel like I'm at the end. I feel like I gotta wrap this shit up. The Kingdom of Heaven director's cut was released on December 23, 2005 at the Laemmle Fairfax Theater in Los Angeles. Eligible. It was unsupported by advertising from 20th Century Fox. They didn't want people to see Ridley's vision.

[C]

Okay, too bad. I saw it.

[A]

You saw it? Did you see it in theaters?

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Did you see it at the theater at which it was released?

[A]

It's unclear if it played other theaters. You have that Steelbook?

[B]

No, I don't have any steelbooks.

[A]

Not a single Steelbook?

[B]

No.

[A]

Gotta get on Hunt.

[C]

I bought Hunt for in October on SteelBook.

[B]

Okay, that seems valid. That's beautiful.

[C]

It may have been 100 Canadian dollars. I didn't really understand the transaction.

[A]

Yeah, well, Steelbooks are expensive. You know. That's the problem with them. Okay, so did you take two films? You got a wild card, right?

[C]

Oh, so I took Biblical Kingdom of Heaven.

[A]

Kingdom of Heaven, Director's Cut to you.

[B]

I mean, justice for Joanna. But Kingdom of Heaven?

[A]

I mean, Joanna can have her revenge. And she will.

[B]

You know, I agreed with your ruling then and I support the spirit of this ruling now. But I would note that we are not applying the same consistency of spirit to Chris as to Joanna.

[A]

We didn't Define biblical epic beforehand. We did define.

[B]

Okay. I mean, I think we did in the word biblical. You know, it's a. It's a text. I mean, are you bringing in. Are you bringing in the unrecognized gospel?

[A]

I don't know why you're fighting me. Is it just because you just like. I sided with Chris because I love Chris dearly. Like, what is the issue?

[B]

He's making decisions. You yell at me to vamp every single time. Now I'm vamping.

[A]

Thank you for vamping. I appreciate that. Make a decision, for Christ sake. You're the one who gave us the heart out. God damn it.

[C]

I'll take Carlos in Wild Card. Biographical, huh? Sure.

[A]

Great. You don't like this movie? No, I do.

[C]

Incredible.

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[C]

Edgar Ramirez is Carlos the Jackal, one of the most infamous, you know, revolutionary slash terrorists of the 20th century and 1 of the most breathtaking hybrids of miniseries and film. I believe this was released in theaters for. For those who. Who wanted to plant themselves in there for that long amount of time, but can be viewed. I think it's on. There is a Criterion version of it, right?

[A]

There is. You can buy a Criterion.

[C]

It was on Netflix forever. I don't know if it still is.

[A]

And basically two films.

[C]

Yes. And an amazing soundtrack that's largely made up of British post punk from circa that era. And it's just. It's just a fucking phenomenal film about the post, I would say the sort of rolling out of the 60s and into the 70s.

[A]

So speaking of Asayas, I started to watch the wizard of the Kremlin on that same plane flight.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Fell asleep.

[C]

Because of the performance. Because of the film, or because.

[B]

You see what I mean about the Dano accent.

[A]

I was enjoying it, but I think.

[B]

Did you get to Putin?

[A]

No, I didn't.

[B]

Yeah, well, then you haven't seen it yet. Written as portrayed by Jude Law.

[A]

Yeah, I'm aware that that was coming. I will watch it. I was excited about it. And the way you would be excited about like a Honey Baked Ham, you know, where I was like, this is my one honey baked ham of 2026. I'll be watching one 2 hour and 20 minute preposterous biopic of world figures. But it wasn't compelling enough to stay awake.

[C]

Was it better than Michael? No, I guess you didn't. I guess it wasn't.

[A]

It will be. I think it will be. It will be. But you know what? Michael had Michael Jackson's music, which is inherently entertaining.

[C]

I wonder if wizard of the Kremlin ever thought about adding some Michael Jackson tunes?

[A]

Probably expensive to license. All right.

[C]

He could afford it.

[A]

I don't think he paid for the film. I have a wild card pick, right?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Okay, this one's newly eligible because this was also recently released in theaters. It's called Kill the Whole Bloody Affair. It's the entire Kill Bill saga, which is just about one of my favorite things ever. Quentin Tarantino's originally conceived as one movie movie that then became two movies because Harvey Weinstein had an idea about splitting it in half to make more money that I think made maybe the production a little bit easier on Tarantino. But seeing the movie together, which I saw last year on my birthday before it was officially re released, the version that I saw was the version that played at the Cannes Film Festival 20 years ago and still had the French subtitles hard coded into the print. But now they made it available earlier this year and it's going to be. I think you can stream it on Peacock now and it's going to be available on home.

[C]

That's my preferred way to watch films.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, most content, really. That's where I watch everything. Peacock. But yeah, I mean, just an epic samurai story, shades of the Odyssey, about a woman, you know, traveling to retrieve her daughter and go back home. Spoilers, I guess, for Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair, just an amazing movie. Recently at videotech, local video store in our neighborhood, I screened Shogun Assassin, which is a movie that is basically the first two Lone Wolf and Cub films spliced together and then edited together. And then it has a synth score attached to it that was released in 1980, I bring it up because in the fateful scene where Beatrix Kiddo meets her daughter at the end of Kill Bill Volume 2, which is now just part of the Whole Bloody Affair, the movie that she watches with her daughter to go to sleep is Shogun Assassin, which is insane.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

And My daughter turns 5 today, no longer 4. But I often think of what it would be like to show her Shogun Assassin, which is incredibly violent. But. But Kill Bill, the Whole Bloody Affair, hu. Huge, huge movie.

[C]

Your daughter is so far shown.

[B]

Yeah. I was going to say Alice would be like, this rules.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Nothing.

[C]

Interest and openness, parentheses, complimentary. It's got to be. The worst thing is, like, you don't know how far is too far.

[A]

We've never done viscera. Okay.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[A]

You know, where someone's like, stem to stern, sliced with a whole.

[C]

Watching Jaws, which she wants to watch About.

[A]

Yes. Like we can do Ghostbusters and Godzilla and monsters destroying things we've never done. Done bloody stuff. I feel like that's. You gotta wait for that.

[C]

I think also, like, there's something they need they should learn about like that, you know, on the battlefield. No, but like the first time I saw like, not 80s action violence, I was like, oh, my God. This is.

[B]

This is. This is very upsetting.

[A]

Yeah, I think so. I think it would be. It's way too early for stuff like that.

[C]

I think at home she's gonna be watching Saber.

[A]

Private Ryan, undrafted here, although it's not too late. You've got one more pick a man.

[B]

Believe it or not, I'm not going to take Saving Private Ryan in Wildcard. I'm going to take Barry Lyndon, which is still on the board.

[C]

I don't think you should be allowed to pick this if.

[B]

Why?

[C]

Because when he picked it in the Best Pictures draft, you went, why did I do that? Because I think it was two and a half hours into a podcast and you were just like, you're being boring.

[A]

You were trying to score points. That's what was happening.

[B]

I don't understand that. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

With who and with what?

[C]

It's one of your funniest things. Like, you were just like out of nowhere, you just went. But.

[B]

Well, I don't. It just goes to show, I guess so. People change.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, people grow.

[A]

That's right.

[B]

Why are you mad about something that happened in a draft?

[A]

It was even extremely rude. It was extremely rude.

[C]

I thought it was hilarious.

[A]

It was untoward.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It was indecent.

[B]

I don't remember it. Which is what you say after any other conversation we've ever had.

[A]

That is true. It wasn't in the spirit of the.

[C]

The game.

[A]

You know, if I have to deal with Embolo being sent off because it wasn't in the spirit of the game.

[C]

Recently served a clip of when you and me and Zach and Amanda potted together. And you were quite rude to me.

[A]

What did I say?

[C]

Because I took Once Upon a Time in Hollywood over Moneyball and you were like, get your together, we have to kill her.

[A]

Well, you know what? We all have weak moments.

[B]

Yeah. I was also, I think eight months pregnant at that point.

[A]

Just exactly my point. We're testing your metal.

[B]

Don't worry. You were really mean.

[A]

You had something big coming up in your life. I needed to make you stronger.

[B]

I was wondering whether Once Upon a Time in Hollywood would be eligible.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's.

[B]

You can make the case as like a Hollywood epic, but they do travel to Europe. Yeah.

[A]

I'm not sure it has the scale.

[B]

Okay. I mean, the ranch.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Overhead. Listen, I think there's a key to

[C]

the eight is an epic.

[A]

No, I don't.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think it's beautiful, but I don't think it's an epic Django. I think any.

[C]

I want to hear you talk about Barry Lynn.

[B]

Well, I just.

[C]

I actually just rewatched it.

[B]

If you can't shoot in candlelight, don't bother shooting at all is what I have to say.

[C]

Wow, there's like four movies then.

[B]

No, I mean, you know, one of our greatest filmmakers making one of the most beautiful photographic, painterly, whatever you want to call it. It's just astonishing to look at and I think. Very funny.

[A]

The Abel Farrar book that I was talking about, that I was just listening to on the way here, he was talking about it because in the run up to making the Driller Killer, he said that Barry Lyndon was made. Everyone went out and saw it. And he said because of the way that Kubrick shot the movie, that essentially invented independent film because you did not need these massive lighting rigs to make a movie. And that the movie kind of taught you, even if you were making a down and dirty exploitation movie like Driller Killer, that you could figure out with a photochemical process and how they figured out how to make that look good on film, that like, it changed movies forever in a very. I never heard it put quite that way. That like, it made things actually easier. You don't think of Kubrick as somebody who, like, simplifies things. So I really loved that insight. Obviously, Barry Lyndon is wonderful. Barry Lyndon on the rewatchables, what do you think?

[C]

Unlikely.

[A]

Unlikely.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What's going to be the next Kubrick movie that gets in? We've had Eyes Wide Shape, I think Full Metal Jacket 2001, the Shining, Full Metal Jacket, Clockwork Orange.

[C]

I could also see Strangelove, you know, a Hollywood graybeard being like, I want to do Strange Love. I think we could do Strange Love when Digger comes out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Do you think Bill likes Strangelove?

[C]

I don't know.

[A]

Strangelove is ten star masterpiece. That's the problem with Digger in any movie. Like, it's like you're aiming for the moon, you know, like you're aiming for the moon, man. The moon exists. Anyway, I'm just pre predicting that's the end of the draft, right?

[C]

I think so, yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Millions and millions of honorable mentions here.

[B]

I mean, not millions.

[A]

Okay, I'll give you some of mine. Okay, let's start with epic Best Picture winners. And we can say whether or not we think these, these are eligible. Gone with the Wind.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The Godfather.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Gandhi.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Out of Africa.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The Last Emperor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Dances with Wolves.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Titanic.

[B]

I almost did it.

[A]

Gladiator.

[B]

Braveheart.

[A]

Braveheart. The Sound of Music.

[B]

Wondered. I mean, I think so. I think that there is. You know, I noticed as people were writing about this that once you are. Once it's a musical, then it gets put into a different classification.

[A]

I thought about musical epic as a category because there are some movies that have real huge scope.

[C]

American in Paris, like three plus.

[B]

I don't think it is not an

[A]

American in Paris that long, but it is wonderful. Another range Kelly film that is very long. Funny Girl is very long. There's some films. Singing in the Rain is under two hours.

[C]

Would you have put Best Years of Our Lives in this?

[A]

That's interesting. Oh, emotional epic is like. Is something to think about.

[C]

Yeah, I think it could have gone a romantic epic.

[A]

It could have. I agree. Other Best Picture winners. What about A Man for All Seasons?

[B]

I mean, I guess it is long and they Wear, you know, from another time.

[A]

It doesn't have the scope.

[B]

Right. It's more, I mean, it's courtroom to me more than it is epic. And I think, you know, a courtroom can be part of an epic. See, you haven't said Oppenheimer yet.

[C]

I was gonna say our last two Best Picture winners I think qualify.

[A]

Those were the last two on my list. Oppenheimer in one battle after another. Both of which I think really fit the scale. And honestly, what those two movies have done, which I've noticed, and we can talk about this a little bit with the Odyssey as well later this week, is they have complicated what the trend had been for best Picture winners, which was much more modestly scaled movies for like 15 years. You know, if you think of Parasite, Shape of Water, Green Book, Moonlight, Nomadland, Coda, like all the. So many of the movies that had been winning best picture for 10 plus years were these lower scaled intimate dramas and comedies. And now Oppenheimer in one battle are huge. Okay. Other movies that I made on my list, biblical epics. Nobody took the Ten Commandments.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

I would prefer the robe. That's the one that I like the best. If you're gonna go with those Technicolor 50s and 60s films, Pasolini's Gospel According to St. Matthew, there you Go. The Passion of the Christ.

[C]

Yeah, I'm saving that for the next one.

[A]

Nicholas Ray's King of Kings, I think is a good one. Greatest story ever told. I don't think that one's very good. Darren Aronofsky's Noah.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

Great New Yorker article about it.

[B]

The New Yorker article that broke. Darren Aronofsky.

[A]

Quo Vadis is another one.

[C]

Barabbas.

[A]

Barabbas, yeah. What else is that?

[C]

A Botus Bottas thing? Barabbas.

[A]

Barabbas.

[B]

I wasn't around, so.

[A]

Babar. I don't know any other biblical epics.

[C]

Guys get crucified in Spartacus, but I don't think that's what they meant.

[A]

Yeah. Samson and Delilah. There's Bathsheba. There's a lot of those kinds of movies. I looked at a lot of those and we were programming the Criterion thing. We were like, well, should we do it as these Odyssey inspired swords and sandals movies like Iphigenia, stuff like that? Or should we do this kind of story? And we ended up going in that direction, obviously. Romantic or war epic? Saving Private Ryan. All Quiet on the Western Front. Crouching Tiger. Hidden Dragon.

[B]

Yep, sure.

[A]

Platoon.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Once Upon a time in China. Dr. Zhivago.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button.

[A]

Oh, interesting. I didn't think of that one.

[B]

I did think of that one.

[A]

That's a good one.

[C]

Not a movie I like, but romantic and long.

[A]

My least favorite of the Finchers.

[B]

Yeah. You guys gotta open your hearts, Duncan.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Well, for Warrior, I think so.

[A]

Definitely.

[C]

Longest Day, Bridge, Too Far out of Africa.

[A]

Not a movie I like either.

[C]

Would you consider Great Escape an epic or just like a really long Good Escape?

[A]

More of an adventure movie, I feel like. Right.

[C]

Any other Westerns? How the West Was one? Once Upon a Time in the West. I think I'd probably put I have

[A]

Once Upon a Time in the west in another category. Yeah, yeah. There's more. What are the other Westerns that I'm not thinking of right now? Now, we already mentioned Dances With Wolves. God, there's got to be a couple of three hour watches. I'm not thinking Wyatt Earp for sure. Lawrence Gasdens. Wyatt Earp. Geronimo, The Walter Hill film.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Biopic. Epic. Is Lincoln up there?

[B]

I wondered whether you guys were going to do this.

[C]

I was thinking about it. I had that. If Malcolm X had been taken.

[A]

The Aviator.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Ali. Recently on the rewatchable Shay, Part one and two. Definitely. Okay. Is Goodfellas a biopic? Epic.

[C]

I can't really complain because you let Me get Kingdom of Heaven and Bible, but I personally just think of it as a crime film and a drama.

[B]

I think that there are other Scorsese movies that would be eligible in other categories, but I didn't have this one down.

[A]

I mean, it spans a great deal of time.

[B]

It does.

[A]

It's a huge cast. It is a real person. Story of a real person's life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could make the strong case. I think I didn't choose it, but I think it's.

[B]

No one did.

[C]

But you had After Hours in your collection.

[A]

I did, I did, yeah. That's very Odyssey coded.

[B]

I mean, but if you're gonna do Goodfellas and Biopic, then Wolf of Wall street would also be in.

[A]

Well, I was gonna also. Speaking of Leo, ask about Catch Me if youf Can. Is that an epic?

[B]

They go a lot of places. Certainly the Aviator is, but not that many people.

[A]

The Aviator, for sure.

[B]

I mean, you know, there are people at the airport or whatever.

[C]

But what about the Revenant?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Yeah. I think so.

[A]

I think so.

[C]

I don't know what category I would put it in, but yeah, I think.

[A]

I think it's a war epic.

[C]

Really.

[A]

Right. There's so much battle.

[C]

Man versus nature, man versus bear.

[A]

Yeah. The Revenant. No, no, me neither. Schindler's like list.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The right stuff.

[B]

Marginal, but I think, yes, A double vhs.

[C]

I mean, this is the problem is like, I have like, this association with the word and like the giant brick VHS to tape release. But that would put like, Prince of the City in there. And it's like. Was Prince of the City an epic? Kind of epic? Yeah, I guess.

[A]

I think so.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The right stuff. Irishman.

[B]

Yeah, I had it on it. I was going to do it in wildcard or three hours if I didn't

[C]

get to I. Bernardo Bertolucci's 1900, which I don't care for, but I don't either.

[A]

It's like five hours long.

[C]

Rrr.

[A]

Yeah, definitely a recent epic. We don't get them as much these days. What about Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet? No, the scale of that movie is.

[B]

Well, sure. I mean, I have Henry V over Hamlet.

[C]

Is Henry V an epic?

[B]

Well, then we kind of get into. Because you're adapting a play and if you're doing the unabridged version or close to unabridged, plays are just really long. So are musicals. So, you know, is Wicked an epic? I don't know.

[A]

Maybe if they made it one movie.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You chose Gone with Wizard of Oz.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Right. Couple of other ones to round us out here. Tarkovsky's Andrei Rublev for sure. Chris, you actually drafted Carlos? You crazy son of a bitch. Speaking of Leone, should I not have.

[C]

No, you did, but should I not have taken it?

[A]

I had it here Once Upon a Time in America, as well as Once Upon a Time in the West. I think also qualify. Anything else you want to list?

[B]

Well, if we're doing Scorsese's Killers of

[A]

the Flower Moon, I skipped over it.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

I had that here, too. And Leo's Dune.

[B]

Yes or no?

[C]

I think Dune 2.

[B]

Put them together and then it would be 1.

[A]

Dune does more world hopping, doesn't it?

[C]

I guess you're right.

[A]

You only see three different planets on Dune.

[B]

Dune 2?

[C]

Could Dune to be Dune 2 is more biblical.

[B]

I was like, can I do a. Can I do. Dune is biblical, but not literal.

[A]

Princess Irulan or Chani Decide right now.

[C]

What I want to know is why he has to decide at all. He's God Emperor.

[A]

You want him to have, like, an invite situation? Yeah, it's a good idea.

[C]

Dune two chicks at the same time.

[A]

Okay. God, it's so good. It's great. Let's recap our draft so Chris can go. Cr. You chose first. Why don't you tell us what you chose?

[C]

In icy inspired films, I took the Searchers. What's wrong with that?

[A]

You pivoted so elegantly from Dune 2

[C]

chicks, you'll throw on your. Like, I'm doing a voiceover voice. And it's very funny. In epic Best Picture winners, I took Bridge on the River Kwai. Biblical epic. You guys were nice enough to allow me to have Kingdom of Heaven, the Director's cut, which played in one theater. In movies over three hours, I took Lawrence of Arabia. And in Wild Card, I took Carlos.

[B]

You forgot Romantic Epic. Epic.

[C]

In Romantic Epic, I took Last of Mohicans. And in Biopic epic, I took Malcolm X.

[A]

Sounds like the phone era is off to a rocky start.

[C]

No, I'm not trying to be like the guy on his phone. What I want is to be the guy who doesn't need any devices.

[A]

That's the problem. Even with the phone, you were flawed. This is why there's nothing wrong with a laptop.

[C]

But you guys, don't make room for me. Get a bigger table. No, get a smaller microphone.

[A]

I'm not doing the set design here, and I take no responsibility for it. Anything that happened here was designed by the wonderful people at Spotify. Or this person.

[B]

Yeah, okay.

[A]

For My picks.

[B]

I've heard your request, and the answer is no.

[C]

Okay, well, then you guys are going to have to deal with me forgetting multiple categories.

[A]

In Odyssey inspired epics, I took oh, Brother, Where Art Thou? In epic, best picture winners, I took the Lord of the Rings, the Return of the King. In biblical epic, I took the Last Temptation of Christ. In romantic or war epic, I took the Deer Hunter. In biopic epic, I took Amadeus. In movies, they exceed three hours, I took Seven Samurai. And in Wild Card, I took Kill Bill. Kill the whole bloody affair.

[B]

Amanda, you could also just get a smaller laptop. You know, you like. You just have like a Cadillac of a laptop for no reason at all.

[C]

You should get a really normal sized laptop.

[A]

She get a Skytel pager.

[C]

I want to get the Zero Dark Thirty, like Dell Tough Book

[A]

just for all your. Your roughhousing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Just in case you get on a

[C]

bell helicopter to fly a much bigger computer.

[B]

I think that's a good.

[A]

Set up a monitor. Great.

[B]

Okay. Okay. In Odyssey inspired epics, I took the wizard of Oz. In epic best picture winners, The Godfather Part 2. In biblical epic, Ben Hur. In romantic or war epic, the English Patient. In biopic epic Reds. In movies that exceed three hours, jfk. And in Wild Card, Barry Lyndon, she did the voice. I do. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, we all have a voice like that. This was fine. This was good.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think that this was a lot of fun, and we picked some great movies, but this speaks to this genre that we've sort of invented being interwoven into the fabric of the greatest films of cinema history.

[A]

Now, in the future, do you want these categorical drafts to be more narrow? Would that be better to focus in more clearly on.

[C]

I mean, I think a swords and sandals draft would have been boring, but probably more.

[B]

We just drafted, like, the best movies ever made, so I don't really have a huge problem.

[A]

Many are saying Carlos is one of the greatest movies ever made.

[C]

Honestly, you see me on Hillhurst, talk to me about it. Buy me a $22 cocktail, and I'll tell you all about Chris.

[A]

My name's Jonathan. Thank you for your work with Carlos.

[C]

Well, sorry for trying to spread the word.

[A]

I want to say thanks to Jack Sanders for his work on this episode, our producer. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh. On Thursday night, you will be able to hear Amanda and I speak about the Odyssey. It's a film we've now seen twice.

[B]

Yeah, just us. No one else really what the people want.

[A]

No, they do.

[C]

Well, thank you.

[B]

You're going to come back you're going to come back.

[C]

I'm coming on Monday when we can go. Full spoilers.

[B]

All right. By then, I'll have taken lots of action.

[C]

Audience theories?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

We never discussed the doomsday concept art with Amanda. Oh, I gotta go. But I'm just saying we didn't.

[A]

We should keep bringing up topics.

[B]

Concept art.

[A]

Is that real? That can't be real.

[B]

Just looking at images. Oh, dear.

[C]

Isn't Gambit in that concept?

[A]

I think he's gonna be in the film.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

Did you see Deadpool and Wolverine?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You did? You like it?

[C]

No.

[B]

Chris, Evan's wearing, like, a mock neck shirt here. What's going on?

[C]

Thanks for joining us on the Big Picture. We were brought to you by Stave Farm. Right.

[A]

Don't you just say that. Don't say things like that. Okay, we'll see you next time. Bye.