The Big Picture

Podcast from The Ringer
Episode: The Juiceless Fall Movie Season, ‘The Running Man,’ and ‘Now You See Me: Now You Don’t’
Date: November 14, 2025
Hosts: Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins, featuring Van Lathan and Interview with Edgar Wright

Episode Overview

This episode dives into what the hosts call a “juiceless” fall movie season, exploring why recent months at the box office have felt deflated and uninspired despite a return to regular moviegoing post-pandemic. The conversation takes a broad look at shifting cultural and industry dynamics: from stars failing to open movies, to distribution strategies, to the evolving definition of “movie stardom.” The group reviews the new adaptation of The Running Man directed by Edgar Wright and the latest entry in the magic heist franchise, Now You See Me: Now You Don’t. There is also a lengthy and insightful interview with Edgar Wright, covering the making and adapting of The Running Man.

Tone is conversational, sharp, and reflective—both critical and wistful.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

The "Juiceless" Movie Season

[01:12–07:56]

• Sean notes a malaise in moviegoing: “...something feels off and I’ve been trying to figure out what it is.” [01:12]
• Output post-pandemic hasn’t delivered the “big fall” season many anticipated; box office is down, and movies aren’t resonating.
  • Streaming is strong, but the cultural impact feels muted.
• Amanda reflects on disappointment: “Not quite dud after dud, but miss after miss after miss.” [03:30]
• Van Lathan points out anticipation for 2025 was immense, but it didn’t deliver: “We thought that we would know by now, and we were like, 2025 is going to be the year. And it turns out that it really wasn’t...” [04:17]
• The hosts and Van all agree: it’s not just one or two underperformers, but a bigger issue in the industry.

Notable quote:
"You’re fishing for a think piece." — Amanda [03:50]

Movie Stardom in Flux: Why Stars Don’t Open Movies Anymore

[07:04–16:57]

• Citing flops like Smashing Machine, Roofman, and Christie, the hosts discuss how simply having a big-name star no longer results in box office success.
  • “Movie stars don’t open movies anymore. Like, it’s done. It is over.” — Amanda [07:13]
  • Van: It’s not that we’re not making up our mind about stars; it’s that “...as the very focused character piece... I feel like when people have endeavored to... make movies like that, it’s never really been about box office.” [08:21]
• Attempts to use stars to “open” more indie-style or character-focused projects haven’t worked, even as companies like A24 try to go “bigger.”
• Distribution shifts—immediate wide releases rather than platforming—have undercut the chances for smaller or riskier projects.

Notable quotes:
“...They are putting The Rock in like A24 clothing. But then they’re hoping to get more of a Rock-like opening. Right. And that didn’t happen.” — Amanda [09:11]
“Maybe we have overinflated the necessity and relevance of stars because of the idolatry that we grew up practicing.” — Sean [15:53]

New Studios, Changing Distribution, & Indie Struggles

[10:28–13:36]

• Sean: Companies like A24 and Neon—traditionally indie powerhouses—are in “transitional phases” [10:56], trying to make bigger movies and struggling with risk.
• New distributors (ROK, One Two Special, Black Bear) are entering but facing similar issues.
• Movies that once would “platform” (start small and build word of mouth) now open instantly wide, often to lackluster returns.

The Future for IP and Event Films

[17:40–23:47]

• Despite gloom, big IP (intellectual property) titles are still poised to do well: Van is excited for Wicked and Avatar: Fire and Ash, and everyone expects strong performance for Zootopia 2 and Marvel releases [17:43–21:24].
• There’s a debate about whether Marty Supreme is a true test of star-driven box office ("If that movie is a disappointment...that's tough." — Sean [18:38]) and if anything beyond blockbuster IP can thrive.

Generational Shifts & Cultural Parallels

[26:25–28:56]

• Van comments on generational torch-passing, noting that Hollywood’s male stars “won’t get out of the way,” and comparing Hollywood’s problem to broader societal and political aging-out crises.
• There’s a larger concern: can the new generation “wrestle Hollywood from the old guard?” [27:23]
• The passing of star power (Hanks to Cruise to Will Smith, etc.) feels “stuck”; stardom isn’t being transferred the way it was.

Memorable moment:
“It's a bunch of old people who won’t get out of the way.” — Amanda [28:33]

Movie Reviews

The Running Man

[29:00–55:02]

Film Summary

• A new adaptation of Stephen King/Richard Bachman’s dystopian novel, directed by Edgar Wright.
• Stars Glen Powell as Ben Richards: a man in a near-future, class-divided society, who enters a deadly televised competition.

Panel Reactions

• Amanda:
  • “All the adjectives I would use...rickety, implausible, and tonally inconsistent...would suggest I had a bad time at the film. I didn’t. I had a good time, or like a fine time...” [29:55]
  • Not an Edgar Wright fan by temperament or taste; calls attention to tonal whiplash.
• Van:
  • Likes Edgar Wright overall (“Scott Pilgrim is one of my top 10” [30:48]) but thinks this is Wright’s weakest in terms of consistent tone.
  • “...the movie is fun for 70% of it. Yeah. And then, man, the last part...the third act...is just so messy...” [31:00]
• Sean:
  • More positive on the movie; lauds action staging and practical execution.
  • Sees the film as a step up from the campy ‘87 Schwarzenegger movie, but acknowledges the “problem of IP opportunity.”
  • Critiques the difficulty of satirizing modern America: “...we also live in a time in which you can’t really satirize America anymore. Cause America is unsatirizable...” [33:28]

Notable Quotes

• “...this is a story that necessitates an ending that...the book has, that this movie doesn’t have...” — Sean [37:58]
• “It’s mean, but never really mean enough. And for the most part pretty toothless about some very, very dark stuff.” — Amanda [36:21]

Cast & Performance Notes

• Glen Powell as Ben Richards — good physical action, but feels off in terms of fit.
  • “I don’t think it’s his fault...there are moments in the script...where he gets to be funny...” — Amanda [41:42]
  • “...just not quite right for that role.” — Van [44:24]
• Best in show: Colman Domingo, Michael Cera [50:01, 45:31]
• Lee Pace's handsomeness: a waste behind the mask — Amanda [54:42]
• Discussion of "types" of action stars, and whether Powell fits either classic model (Stallone/Schwarzenegger vs. Willis/Foxx) [47:20–48:43]

Thematic Notes

• Satire, media manipulation, and class divisions—core ideas of the book and film; but the film’s followthrough is muted.
• Parallels to current pop culture, the role of spectacle, and “event” films.

Now You See Me: Now You Don’t

[61:48–77:11]

Film Summary

• The third in the magic heist series, brings back the Four Horsemen (Jesse Eisenberg, Woody Harrelson, Dave Franco, Isla Fisher) and adds new young illusionists (Dominic Sessa, Ariana Greenblatt, Justice Smith).
• Plot: Horsemen are brought together to steal the world’s biggest diamond from a South African crime family, headed by Rosamund Pike (in a hilariously over-the-top accent/performance).
• Heist format, heavy on Bond-movie style international settings, winking tone.

Hosts’ Takeaways

• Soft recommendation: Both Sean and Amanda found it enjoyably disposable, ideal for a “glass of wine at the movies.”
• Rosamund Pike is “having the time of her life” as a Bond villain diamond heiress [64:32].
• Not for serious magic aficionados — “illusions in this film...were not exactly like, you know, maybe they felt a little bit more like an Arrested Development reference.” — Amanda [67:47]
• The formula is serviceable, “comfort food” cinema.

Notable Quotes

• “[The] energy was a real ‘go to the movies’ type of energy in the room.” — Amanda [74:03]
• “These movies...are comforting in a way.” — Sean [74:03]
• “IP that's grandfathered in is fine. It’s everything else...” — Amanda [76:50]
• Who's it for? — A debate on the aging fanbase and whether these movies will connect with new or young audiences. Both believe it will do well because of familiarity and the franchise’s “grandfathered” status, even if critics don’t love it.

Industry & Meta-Reflections

• Movie stars moving to smaller indie films echoes the “TV migration” years ago, which ultimately dragged down the TV industry by shifting attractiveness and dollars away from non-marquee projects [56:26–57:34].
• The need for a “middle class” at the movies—a place for solid, mid-budget, grownup films that keeps the ecosystem healthy.
  • “Who is going to establish the good worth-it film in the middle that doesn’t change the world, but was cool and interesting to talk about?” — Van [58:23]
  • “This is the central problem. It’s gone. And it is what keeps film healthy.” — Amanda [58:56]

Edgar Wright Interview

[78:11–end; main content 78:11–126:08]

Key Segments:

• Edgar’s Perspective on the Industry
  • “Not many films get made in Hollywood anymore...maybe like 20 years ago when I made Shaun of the Dead...you come to Hollywood to have a Hollywood career, but now that's all in inverted commas...” [78:47]
• Adapting The Running Man
  • Wright loved the source novel for its dystopian prescience and wanted to be faithful to its tone and focus on Ben’s POV.
  • “...the reason that I said it is because...I had read the Stephen King Richard Backman book...I was well aware that they hadn’t really adapted the book at all.” [83:24]
  • The adaptation focuses on world-building, keeping the perspective tightly with Ben (Glen Powell), as in the novel.
• Production Details
  • Shot in over 160 locations; big, resource-intensive, and quickly produced (“my biggest and most complicated movie” [94:46])
  • Big on practical effects and choreography: “History has shown me anxiety on set is probably a good thing” [105:15]
• Casting Glen Powell
  • Liked Powell because he brought the “everyman” quality rather than a superhero/super-soldier background.
  • Powell’s enthusiasm: “You’ll never work with an actor who works harder than me. I promise you that.” [115:23]
• Stephen King's Involvement
  • King provided notes and approval. “He loved the adaptation and was very, very generous in his praise...” [120:10]
• Wright on tone, ambition, and anxiety
  • “You want to live up to the film that’s in your head.” [118:01]
  • Fun on set is rare, because you’re always “trying to live up to the movie that’s in your head.”
• Recent film recommendations:
  • One Battle After Another
  • No Other Choice
  • Pillion

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I cried like a child...every time I cry literally. It doesn’t matter who performs Defying Gravity.” — Van on Wicked [22:41]
• “I’m not sure how we should be thinking about [movies] because there are a lot of interesting young stars...I wonder if our brains even relate to film in the same ways that it used to.” — Van [55:42]
• “It was wonderful to see you.” — Amanda (goodbyes)
• “Now you see me. Now you don’t. Soft recommend.” — Sean [78:01]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:12] Main discussion on “juiceless” fall and big picture industry questions
• [07:13] Movie stardom: over and done?
• [13:36] Sydney Sweeney’s box office pull, modern star power
• [17:40] The IP test: blockbusters still rule
• [29:00] The Running Man review (panel)
• [41:19] Glen Powell as Ben Richards—does he work?
• [61:48] Now You See Me: Now You Don’t review (panel)
• [78:11] Edgar Wright interview starts
• [82:26] Adapting the source novel; fidelity to perspective
• [94:46] Shooting/production challenges
• [110:58] Glen Powell’s casting
• [120:10] Stephen King’s approval & final pressures
• [124:34] Wright’s recommendations
• [127:04] Next week’s preview

Summary Takeaway

This episode is an incisive snapshot of 2025’s movie industry malaise: worrying about the end of movie stardom, the challenges of theatrical distribution, the narrowing of mid-budget cinema, and a general pall over a season that should have been a comeback for theaters. Yet, through all this, hosts Sean and Amanda (and guests) maintain clear affection for the art form, celebrating crowd-pleasing comforts like Now You See Me and the big swing adaptations like The Running Man, even as they argue over what works and what doesn't. Edgar Wright’s interview is a thoughtful coda about adapting legacy material and the anxieties of living up to both your own vision and a mentor’s canon.

Final verdict on the new releases:

• The Running Man: Exciting action and ambition, mixed success on tone and adaptation. Worth seeing, especially for genre fans.
• Now You See Me: Now You Don’t: Fun, disposable comfort viewing. Great Rosamund Pike performance. Go with a glass of wine and a friend.

“Who is going to establish the good worth-it film in the middle that doesn’t change the world, but was cool and interesting to talk about? That keeps—to me—film healthy.”
— Van Lathan, [58:23]

For listeners: Even if you missed the episode, you’ll walk away understanding the shifting landscape facing theatrical films, the fate of stardom, and how even today’s comfort movies play into (and sometimes against) those larger trends. Plus, a backstage pass into the creation of The Running Man from Edgar Wright himself.