← The Big Picture
The Big Picture
The Juiceless Fall Movie Season, ‘The Running Man,’ and ‘Now You See Me: Now You Don’t’
02:07:30
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- [00:01]
Amanda Davins
This episode is brought to you by Spotify Portal for Backstage. But you're wondering what's Portal? Well, it's an internal developer portal built to improve developer experience and boost productivity. All software components are centralized. Documentation is automated and easy to maintain. New projects and components just a few clicks. With your best practices already built in, think less friction, more innovation. Ready to double your productivity? Try Spotify portal@backstage.Spotify.com.
- [00:31]
Sean Fennessey
This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom.
- [00:34]
Edgar Wright
Cool temps are here.
- [00:35]
Sean Fennessey
Time to level up your wardrobe at Nordstrom. You'll find the best cold weather must haves, including thousands of styles under $100. Shop head to toe cozy from faves like Ugg, All Saints, Nordstrom Skims the North Face and more. Plus free shipping, free returns and quick order pickup. Make it easy in stores or online. It's time to go shopping at Nordstrom. I'm Sean Fennesee.
- [01:11]
Amanda Davins
I'm Amanda Davins and this is the.
- [01:12]
Sean Fennessey
Big Picture, a conversation show about a very awkward movie fall. On this episode we will be talking about two new movies, now youw See Me, now youw don't and the Running man with our friend Van Lathan. Later in this episode, I'll have Edgar Wright on the show to talk about the Running man, director of the film. He's been on the show before. A very, very smart and interesting cinephile. Great conversation. But first I did want to talk about what's going on at the movies. You and I had this long conversation on Bill Simmons's podcast recently about the future of the art form. That was a very kind of broad, vague discussion about who gets to make movies and who doesn't. But I've been reflecting on the October that we exited and the start of this November and something feels off and I've been trying to figure out what it is. You could very easily diagnose it as other movies just haven't been as good as we wanted them to be. Right.
- [02:05]
Amanda Davins
We are gonna come back to that. Okay, but we can have your conversation first. Okay.
- [02:10]
Sean Fennessey
I have a few theories as to what's going on because at this time now, everything was supposed to be sorted out. We've gotten past the pandemic era with theaters. We've gotten through a couple of strikes. We've had enough production time for everything to catch up. We're getting big movies like the Running man, like now you see me, now you don't. In the fall, box office is down. The movies are not really vibing with people. A lot of big stuff is going on Streaming and making a solid dent there, but maybe not as noisy. I'm not panicking. I think I'm just trying to figure out what feels wrong.
- [02:47]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [02:48]
Sean Fennessey
As is custom in these conversations. Am I overreacting?
- [02:51]
Amanda Davins
No. I mean, it has not been a successful fall. And I had an experience this morning where I was talking with a friend and trying to recommend something that she watch while she's, like, stuck at home, basically. And I couldn't think of a good movie that. That I. That I thought would be worth her time on streaming. You know, something that would be available either because it's been put on digital or was streaming first, so. So it's been a tough fall, definitely. The box office has been down. I think there are some strategic mistakes that have been made. And then I do also think that sometimes we have seasons like this where movies just don't work out. And there are a lot of things that on paper, we were excited for. And it was not quite dud after dud, but miss after miss after miss. And we are at the end of a series of. Of many misses. So that happens. It doesn't feel good when it happens. And our mood on this show gets. And your mood in particular, like, gets pretty down. And then you go see Minecraft or whatever and you're like, movies are saved. But, yeah, you're not wrong. You're just, you know. Well, you're fishing for a think piece.
- [04:07]
Sean Fennessey
Maybe, maybe. What do you think? You don't have to do this three times a week like we do. So maybe you don't have this mentality as much.
- [04:14]
Van Lathan
Maybe not. And I think maybe some anticipation is in there for you guys because you guys know the big movies that are coming out and stuff like that. Couple of things. One, next year is a gigantic year with all of these huge, gigantic properties, Some of them IP coming out. So we should see the way the box office shakes out. And really, really, really to your point, because I agree with you, we thought that we would know by now, and we were like, 2025 is going to be the year. And it turns out that it really wasn't as far as the diagnosis was concerned. And maybe 2026 will be the year. I do think that there are a couple of interesting things going on, like, particularly with. So the Sydney Sweeney movie about Chrissy Martin.
- [04:49]
Sean Fennessey
Right.
- [04:51]
Van Lathan
That movie is interesting insofar as I've heard that I have not seen this. I heard that it was a really strong performance by her.
- [04:58]
Sean Fennessey
She's very good in the movie.
- [04:59]
Van Lathan
Okay. I think the movie is less about the movie and more about her and not anything that has to do with her or any controversies that she's had away from the screen. Just, it's a referendum on her. And I think those movies feel more important than they used to feel. I wonder if Joe versus the Volcano, when it came out, was like a referendum on Tom Cruise. Not Tom Cruise, Tom Hanks. And, like, who he was.
- [05:26]
Amanda Davins
Right.
- [05:26]
Van Lathan
Like, Bonfire of Vanities puts all of these people together. The movie doesn't do what the movie was supposed to do. A kind of epic and very famous movie that fell short of all expectations from a box office and critical standpoint. And I don't know, was there as much conversation about Bruce Willis, Melanie Griffith, Tom Hanks together can't make a hit like. So I think that some of this stuff is our inability to connect with the crop of talent that we have. And some of it is the fact that we are a little bit more locked in and we're a little bit more prone to these discussions than we used to be. I think it's all those stuff.
- [06:02]
Sean Fennessey
Definitely. We didn't have podcasts in 1986, right?
- [06:05]
Amanda Davins
Like, we had Entertainment Weekly and like, we all knew about the colossal failure that was Bonfire of the Vanities and the hand wringing because it was covered and discussed in the way that it was at the time and handed down to us. So I'm sure there was some version of that.
- [06:20]
Sean Fennessey
To me, this is not about a single movie. I do think Christie is one of the most important movies to talk about in this experience because it signals something that is like a transitional moment that is happening in both stardom and in the way that movies are distributed. But just going down the list, couple things are obviously working right. The new Predator movie that worked. The fourth Conjuring movie that worked. Black Phone 2 that worked. The now youw See Me movie that's going to work. Those are. Those are franchises. Those are very familiar properties. That's the sort of thing that still mostly works at, like, a medium scale. We don't have billion dollar movies for the most part right now, but the medium stuff is still working. Okay, but Smashing Machine, after the Hunt, Roofman, House of Dynamite, Good Fortune, Shelby Oaks, Nuremberg, Christie Original movies, adult movies, but they're so.
- [07:05]
Van Lathan
But they're also. A lot of those movies are driven by stars that we haven't really made our mind up on yet.
- [07:12]
Sean Fennessey
I agree.
- [07:14]
Amanda Davins
And also, I do think, to your point about Tom Hanks and Sydney Sweeney and everyone else, one of the lessons of this fall, to me, even to Bring it back to van to one battle after another is that movie stars don't open movies anymore. Like it's done. It is over. Movie stars possibly have other value and maybe they have value down the road in streaming and in terms of drawing people to an attention. Attention to a film and just basic awareness, which you need at this point. But getting people to go see a movie in theaters because Sydney Sweeney is in it, because Jennifer Lawrence is in it, because Leonardo DiCaprio is in it, just does not happen. That's over.
- [07:56]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, I think that that's definitely true. I think that some of those other movies though are very well known people that we're not. We're not making our mind up on the Rock or Julia Roberts or even Channing Tatum.
- [08:08]
Van Lathan
Well, well, so this sucks.
- [08:10]
Amanda Davins
I think we kind of are.
- [08:11]
Van Lathan
I think we are like. So we're not making our mind up on the Rock when he's in Jumanji or when he's in Fast and the Furious.
- [08:19]
Sean Fennessey
But I'm still making my mind up on that.
- [08:21]
Van Lathan
But yeah, I like that. I'll buy a ticket to that amusement park. But I think we are making our mind up on him as you know, in the very focused character piece. And by the way, I feel like when people have endeavored to or big stars have endeavored to make movies like that in the past, they've never really been about. And we talked about this with one battle after another, the box office was less to me important than the quality of the performance. I still think the Smashing Machine is a success for the Rock.
- [08:53]
Sean Fennessey
I agree, but I don't think that that is the generally accepted point of view on that movie. I stand by be a really interesting movie to look at five years from now when it's outside of the discussion of its box office and its awards race as. As like a step in the. In the chain of him trying to be an artist. But that's not how it's judged on this show or really anywhere.
- [09:12]
Amanda Davins
Well, and the Smashing Machine is another example that brings in the other half of this, which is the distribution strategy and how the indie market is changing. And that is an A24 movie that has a much larger budget than the A24 films that we have known and loved. And that was part of. Of like a stated play by them to make bigger movies to go wider. They are putting the rock in like a 24 clothing. But then they're hoping to get more of a Rock like opening. Right. And that didn't happen. It just did not.
- [09:44]
Van Lathan
Right.
- [09:44]
Amanda Davins
Which it was still on the A24 scale.
- [09:47]
Van Lathan
It also didn't happen for like Adam Sandler and like Punch Drunk Love, which it's. It's Billy Madison, it's Lil Nicky. It's all of these movies coming out and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then Adam Sandler goes, well, I wanna do something different. I wanna do something serious. I wanna work with very deliberate filmmakers and fantastic talent. This movie, I'm not sure what the budget on that was, but that movie obviously wasn't made to be the type of hit that he was known for. And he was. It was. It came out maybe towards the tail end of the Adam Sandler super hot period, but definitely when he was still a gigantic draw.
- [10:29]
Sean Fennessey
I think it's in the aftermath of a lot of movies that I have a lot of emotional affection for. But he had even bigger movies after Punch Drunk Love. I mean into the 2000s and 2010s. He had huge box office successes. So, Tim, you're right in that stars have been doing this kind of thing historically over and over and over again. Right? In the 50s, stars would be like, I'm trying to do something a little bit more compelling and interesting and character driven and not as spectacle oriented. It's not that. Like, look at Kirk Douglas's career. He has like a series of really interesting choices in the 50s and 60s because he's trying to push himself and push the medium forward. I think it's. To me, this is like a really a story of agglomeration. It's like the Smashing Machine is not the only problem. Christie's not the only problem. And I think Amanda has put her finger on something that is very right, which is a 24 and neon are in a transitional phase. Right. They've both had best picture winners. They started out as small mini majors in the. In the fall of Weinstein. Right. That they were like, we're going to fill the Miramax backfill. Right? So those companies are trying to get bigger. That's very hard to do. It's very hard to go from $20 million movies to $80 million movies. There's going to be some struggles there. And then up underneath them are all of these new companies. There's three in particular that have emerged this year. One is RO K, one is one two Special, and the last is Black Bear, which is a production company that has been making movies for years. Teddy Schwartzman, the kind of CEO of that company, was on the town a couple of weeks ago. He talked about how they're now distributing Movies, not just producing the movies and selling them off to people to distribute. They put Christie in theaters. So Christie, just like the Smashing Machine, just like Dime I Love, is essentially a small independent film with a big star in the center of it that 10, 20, 30 years ago would have been platformed, would have come out in two theaters and then 37 theaters and then 300 theaters. And if people liked it, it would open on 2,000 theaters six or eight weeks after it came out. All three of those movies came out on 2,500 screens instantaneously.
- [12:25]
Amanda Davins
I mean I just. That's just a trait I don't understand.
- [12:28]
Van Lathan
It doesn't make any sense. And it would make sense if it was a small movie about Hillary Clinton. Like if it was. If it was a small.
- [12:39]
Amanda Davins
Absolutely not.
- [12:40]
Van Lathan
Right. You know what I mean?
- [12:42]
Sean Fennessey
If it was an extremely well known biopic.
- [12:46]
Van Lathan
Yeah, something like, hey, this is the story of like whatever. Like John Travolta does Primary Colors. Oh, interesting. It's Bill Clinton, blah blah, blah. But like it's about people. I knew who both of them were not actually. I didn't know who the Chapman was. I didn't know who that was. The guy that the Rock played in the Smash Machine. I never knew.
- [13:02]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, Mark, Kurt, Mark, Kurt. I don't know.
- [13:04]
Van Lathan
I was a Chapman, so I didn't know who he was. But Kristy Martin, I'm a boxing fan. I definitely knew who she was. And it would seem that if you were going to do her life story that you would get known box office entity that would denote having that wide release. But they took a big swing on Sydney Sweeney and Sydney Sweeney is a big time celebrity for sure. I don't know if she's a big time movie star quite yet.
- [13:37]
Amanda Davins
I mean know, here is my reaction. I've literally never heard of the person, person Christy. And I've heard about Sydney Sweeney's, you know, various missteps on social media and interviews over the years. And she's like an alt right meme now. And I was like, I'm good, thank you. So that's my personal reaction to it. I do wonder where her audience is and I think it's a miscalculation of who she is as a star and where the audience like that, like that there is a wide enough audience for her that would go to see like a fighting movie. You know, it's just again people go.
- [14:09]
Van Lathan
To see her because they like, look, I actually applaud before I even say this. I applaud the swing. I am an actress.
- [14:18]
Sean Fennessey
I Do, too. I think she should be trying to make movies like that.
- [14:19]
Van Lathan
She should be trying to make movies like that. I am an actress. You're setting yourself up for failure or to come in soft with your box office, in a way, by putting it in that many screens with that subject matter and with an actress, like you said, who we haven't really glommed onto yet as the driving force in a movie and who has what some people would say is a divisive public image. So it's just an interesting thing. But, you know, the question is, like, even with Channing Tatum. Channing Tatum is a movie star, but I don't know if it's a capital S on the star.
- [14:58]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, it's true.
- [14:59]
Van Lathan
I think it's a lowercase S on the star.
- [15:03]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah.
- [15:04]
Van Lathan
And so what was Roofman supposed to be like? What is that? Was it just supposed to be cool movie? Cause I can. I can live with that.
- [15:10]
Sean Fennessey
To me, it is a cool movie.
- [15:11]
Edgar Wright
It's a cool movie.
- [15:12]
Amanda Davins
I like the movie a lot. But it's, you know, the entire campaign is just Channing Tatum, like, as large as you can possibly fit him on the poster in, like, goofy glasses, which, you know, I thought he was very entertaining in. But they are trying to sell it on Channing Tatum. And I agree, like, he is. He became a movie star. And I agree with the capitalization choice. Lower s in, like, 2010, 2012.
- [15:39]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. 21 Jump Street, Magic Mike.
- [15:41]
Amanda Davins
And that. That whole generation, like, it's too late. They just. I think that is kind of when it turns where you can have movie star power, but you never get, you know, translated in.
- [15:53]
Sean Fennessey
I think it's as much to. It's possible. It's possible that we have overinflated the necessity and relevance of stars because of the idolatry that we grew up practicing. And that, in fact, what really happened here has less to do with the diminishment of stars and really just the idea that people will just wait to see a movie like Roofman for wait four weeks, and they'll be able to stream it, and it's a lot cheaper and it's a lot more convenient. And we have now fully. When I was freaking out, I'm not freaking out anymore. When I was freaking out in 2020, 2021, when they started shrinking the windows, when they started moving things to streaming after a month, I was like, you are killing it. You're killing it. You're making people realize that they don't have to show up. You're taking what is A multi, multi, multi billion dollar business and you're carving out at least 40% of it. And now there's good movies, there's bad movies. This fall, this hasn't been as good a fall as I would have wanted. But in a year where you can look at what sinners and weapons did and say, like, we've got some momentum, things are hot right now to deflate that this month feels like a real reckoning with the decisions that have been made over the last 10 years.
- [16:57]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, those are, those are both genre movies, you know, on top. Like, those are, those have, they have stars and they have big budgets and they have great, like established filmmakers, but they are also like a zombie movie and a horror movie. And I, and I think in some ways in terms of box office appeal, have more in common with the established, you know, mid level movies that are hitting than Roofman, you know, than all of dialogue. I think some of it is just basic format and it's like we know what works at the box office and we, we know what doesn't at this point, which is character driven passion projects of, of people who are famous on the Internet and in the movies.
- [17:40]
Van Lathan
I'll tell you something, telling you guys right now, don't give up yet.
- [17:43]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, right.
- [17:44]
Van Lathan
Cause we still, we got some things coming up.
- [17:45]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, we got Avengers, Doomsday.
- [17:47]
Van Lathan
So wait, I'm not talking about this year.
- [17:48]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:49]
Van Lathan
So number one, a good test of this will be Marty Supreme.
- [17:53]
Sean Fennessey
It will, I think it is the.
- [17:55]
Van Lathan
Ultimate test because Marty supreme stars somebody who we, who, I mean, he has, he's the exception. He's the guy right now that people are uniquely interested in, in the way that they were interested in young stars 15, 20 years ago. They are uniquely interested in the things that he does. And that movie is supposed to be really. Have you guys seen it?
- [18:14]
Sean Fennessey
I've seen it. It's really good.
- [18:15]
Van Lathan
Okay, so the movie's supposed to be really good.
- [18:17]
Amanda Davins
He's great in it.
- [18:17]
Van Lathan
It's him.
- [18:18]
Sean Fennessey
Boom.
- [18:18]
Van Lathan
The whole death.
- [18:19]
Sean Fennessey
But here, hold on though. Now, he's smart and I'm a huge fan of his, but he has zero hits that are not ip. That's true. So that's why it is the ultimate test. And if that movie doesn't, I don't know what the right number is for success. But if it's a big disappointment, if it's a Smashing Machine level disappointment at the box office, that's tough.
- [18:38]
Amanda Davins
We're in trouble.
- [18:39]
Sean Fennessey
That's tough.
- [18:39]
Van Lathan
That is why this is a good test as far as The IP stuff, man. We still got two big ones coming out and I can't wait.
- [18:46]
Amanda Davins
Go ahead.
- [18:47]
Van Lathan
Wicked for good. Woo.
- [18:49]
Amanda Davins
You're excited.
- [18:50]
Van Lathan
You guys can't. You guys don't even know if you guys have never seen the stage show. You don't even know what's about to happen.
- [18:55]
Amanda Davins
I didn't know that you were a Wicked.
- [18:56]
Sean Fennessey
Like.
- [18:57]
Amanda Davins
Oh, this is. That's beautiful. Do you want to come with me to see it? Do you have tickets yet?
- [19:02]
Van Lathan
I think that there's a screening. Why? Were you going to see someone special?
- [19:04]
Amanda Davins
Well, he.
- [19:05]
Sean Fennessey
I have to go to a different screen.
- [19:06]
Amanda Davins
Yeah. And so I have an extra ticket. Will you come with me? I don't want to see it by myself. I would love to see it with you.
- [19:11]
Sean Fennessey
You can have my ticket.
- [19:12]
Van Lathan
Hey, you want to know something that's. That's like a fun piece of knowledge?
- [19:17]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [19:17]
Van Lathan
Do you know who one of my closest friends was? One of my first famous friends.
- [19:21]
Amanda Davins
Tell me.
- [19:22]
Van Lathan
Taye Diggs. You know who? His wife.
- [19:25]
Amanda Davins
I do. Aha.
- [19:27]
Van Lathan
So she was right there the whole time. Adina. Tay's wife. Anyway, we don't want to talk about that. It was all kinds of stuff that happened now.
- [19:34]
Sean Fennessey
They split up.
- [19:38]
Van Lathan
Now and then in December.
- [19:41]
Sean Fennessey
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What's that?
- [19:46]
Van Lathan
That is the blue people shooting at the humans. Long a whole race of women. Yamas. Blue women. Yamas are back, right? And we're gonna have fun with them. And I want you guys, I know this is. This is a serious movie show, but I want you guys to let yourselves feel.
- [20:08]
Sean Fennessey
You don't have to tell me anything. I'm pro Avatar. I'm pro Avatar.
- [20:13]
Van Lathan
I love it.
- [20:14]
Amanda Davins
I every. Every time I have like, the Chris Ryan, I don't care about this mentality. It's not even.
- [20:20]
Sean Fennessey
It's only been two times. There's only been two movies, like every time for centuries. I had to go to the theater.
- [20:26]
Amanda Davins
Talk about it so much, you know.
- [20:28]
Sean Fennessey
And like, he's a big deal.
- [20:29]
Amanda Davins
So much. And then he's like. And then Kate Winslet broke this other record, you know, and Sigourney Weaver's doing some stuff and there's a whale. You know, we just. It like it does occupy more of the consciousness of the.
- [20:41]
Van Lathan
Count out Jim.
- [20:42]
Amanda Davins
You can never ever count out big Jim. You're 1,000% right. I know that. I know that. It's three hours and 15 minutes.
- [20:51]
Sean Fennessey
Is the movie three hours and 15 minutes.
- [20:52]
Amanda Davins
Three hours and 15 minutes and Jim.
- [20:57]
Van Lathan
Don'T give a fuck.
- [20:58]
Sean Fennessey
That's crazy.
- [20:59]
Van Lathan
Jim said, you gonna sit here. He said, I invented new technology to make this movie.
- [21:03]
Amanda Davins
I will.
- [21:04]
Van Lathan
You gonna sit here and you gonna watch this shit. I love it.
- [21:07]
Amanda Davins
I am more like water than fire. Interesting. Just, you know, in terms of atmospheres, Fire and Ash. I'm not like, looking forward to three hours of that. I prefer the palette and the whale of, you know, and everything that's going on in the ocean.
- [21:24]
Sean Fennessey
I'm very excited for Fire and Ash. Let us not underestimate Zootopia 2 as well, which will also be a massive hit. Regarding Wicked, just not a fan of the first film. Like, not at all. I am going to see it again on Sunday with my daughter because they're running it again so now. So I'll be ready to see For Good on Tuesday. And we'll talk about For Good and we'll try to have as good a faith conversation about For Good with Julia Lemon on the show as we possibly can. Because I don't want to just shit on it for two hours. But I did not like the first movie.
- [21:51]
Van Lathan
So let me ask you this. You didn't like the first movie, did you? I'll just ask you this. Did you like Defying Gravity?
- [21:58]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. I mean, it's obviously a great song, well performed. But I was like, this is the end of the movie.
- [22:03]
Amanda Davins
Did I like this? Do I like the song or do I like the huge CGI monkey fan? Yeah, it looked. I mean, the whole movie looks bad in my opinion. Do not care for the desaturated colors or cgi. And that truly is like CGI vomit fest at the end. And then I thought they really undercut themselves with using. With like the climactic. That literal last moment of the film in the trailer. And so when she finally does, like, ah, you know, at the end of the movie, and then it cuts and I was like, damn, you spoiled the end of the movie. Like, come on.
- [22:41]
Van Lathan
I cried like a child. I cried. Every time I cry like a child, I cry literally. It doesn't matter who performs Defying Gravity. It is such a human. It doesn't matter how many times I've seen it. Like, she starts, I'm gonna cry right now. She starts belting out. She feels so bad.
- [22:58]
Amanda Davins
She's very good at it.
- [22:59]
Van Lathan
Yeah, I cry right now.
- [23:00]
Sean Fennessey
Part of the reason why I've tried to not orient this conversation too much around the box offices. I think the box office will be fine because you've got Wicked, you've got Zootopia 2, you've got Avatar. Like, those movies are Gonna do well. There's gonna be other movies that come out in December that are gonna do well. It's less of a, like, the house is on fire thing as it is. This confluence of the quality feels a little off. The reception feels really muted. Even the Oscar race, which we talk about all the time, it's like. It's kind of settled in, right? It's like, it's one battle. Sinners. It's hamnet, and then it's like a bunch of other stuff. And that's not uncommon necessarily, but there's Feels like there's less anticipation for sentimental value or less anticipation for, you know, what's another Netflix film that's coming out later this year? I mean, J. Kelly. J. Kelly. It feels like, you know, interested in J. Kelly. I liked it a lot.
- [23:47]
Van Lathan
I'm so. I liked it a lot.
- [23:49]
Sean Fennessey
The fuck?
- [23:49]
Van Lathan
Y' all see every fucking movie six months before this shit comes out. Like, I'm starting to get jealous. Like, so you already.
- [23:55]
Sean Fennessey
That's the job.
- [23:56]
Van Lathan
You already. You already saw J. Kelly?
- [23:58]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, I have. Yeah.
- [23:59]
Amanda Davins
I saw it in Venice. Do you want to come to the Venice Film Festival?
- [24:02]
Edgar Wright
Sorry.
- [24:02]
Van Lathan
Sanjay Killian. I saw it over at George's house.
- [24:05]
Sean Fennessey
Stop trying to pretend like you are the common listener at home when you.
- [24:09]
Van Lathan
Are like, I haven't seen this yet.
- [24:12]
Sean Fennessey
Three minutes ago. We're like. One of my first famous friends was Tay Daniels.
- [24:15]
Van Lathan
I met him at the gym. I met him playing basketball. I don't even count.
- [24:17]
Sean Fennessey
In Hollywood, California.
- [24:18]
Van Lathan
I met him playing gym.
- [24:19]
Amanda Davins
I would like to extend first, a formal invitation for you to, A, come see Wicked with me next week.
- [24:24]
Van Lathan
I'm going.
- [24:25]
Amanda Davins
And B, to come to the Venice Film Festival next year with me.
- [24:28]
Van Lathan
I would love to go.
- [24:29]
Amanda Davins
I think that we would. How do you feel about. In general?
- [24:32]
Van Lathan
I love Italy, and I would like to have my own Italian adventure at the Venice Film Festival. So can we even name this guy? James Toback is canceled, right?
- [24:42]
Sean Fennessey
I believe so, yes.
- [24:43]
Van Lathan
Okay. So I won't speak about him, but.
- [24:45]
Sean Fennessey
I mean, you could say his name.
- [24:46]
Van Lathan
Okay, so he did a documentary years ago.
- [24:49]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [24:49]
Van Lathan
And it was about him and Alec Baldwin. Yeah. Do you remember that?
- [24:52]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [24:53]
Van Lathan
Two Cancer.
- [24:55]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [24:55]
Edgar Wright
Yeah.
- [24:55]
Sean Fennessey
I mean, I'm honestly sure they're both fine.
- [24:57]
Van Lathan
I'm like, you know, but they went to Venice in that documentary.
- [25:01]
Sean Fennessey
I'm trying to remember the name of the. I can't remember, but it was two verbs. Something and something.
- [25:05]
Van Lathan
But they were talking about that documentary.
- [25:10]
Amanda Davins
Was Seduced and Abandoned.
- [25:11]
Van Lathan
Oh, good.
- [25:12]
Amanda Davins
Okay.
- [25:14]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [25:14]
Van Lathan
Seduced and Abandoned.
- [25:15]
Amanda Davins
Good.
- [25:16]
Sean Fennessey
Is the name of Abandoned, it's meant to be a reference to trying to raise money at a film festival to make a film. Not what James Stobak has been accused of in the public eye, which is very unseemly.
- [25:26]
Van Lathan
The fact that that was the name of it. I forgot what the name of it was. But ever since I saw that, I wanted to go to the film festival. Cause I wanted to see people running around trying to get their movies made. Which of course, you know, is a process I am in love with. I think that's a part of it when you're out here trying to do this. One reference back to the conversation that you, Bill and I had was that this is an interesting tension right here. And I don't know that I articulated it quite as well as I'd like to. This is a tension right here that I feel like. I wonder how much it's existed in the past. Meaning baton handing, torch passing, situation. We do have an established group of stars that are still incredibly virile and very powerful, particularly the male ones, because they just don't let rude. I'm just saying they don't let our female stars. It's like Julia is not getting the same leeway to do the stuff that she does.
- [26:26]
Sean Fennessey
She doesn't have a Mission Impossible 8.
- [26:28]
Van Lathan
That other people have done. I will say that there is a crop of older black actresses that are coming into their own now. And that is great to see, right?
- [26:36]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, there's some exceptions. I think Devil wears Prada 2 is an interesting test of this too. You know, Meryl Streep getting the chance to run that movie's gonna be a big hit.
- [26:44]
Van Lathan
Big shout out to Eileen.
- [26:47]
Amanda Davins
It looks like Instagram, though. I mean, the teaser, I was just, you know, I was upset.
- [26:52]
Sean Fennessey
I can't wait to absolutely destroy your soul in that episode. It's gonna be amazing.
- [26:56]
Amanda Davins
I mean, I love it. And it's just. It looked. It looks like Instagram.
- [27:01]
Sean Fennessey
10 years of Marvel pods with Amanda watching me go through all the stages of joy and grief, and now, finally, it has come for her.
- [27:09]
Amanda Davins
I just. I mean, I'll be on board, but I thought the teaser looked like one of those Vogue, you know, 45 questions videos or whatever.
- [27:17]
Van Lathan
The question is, can the new generation of stars not so much directing and writing talent? Cause I think they're doing fine.
- [27:23]
Edgar Wright
Yeah.
- [27:24]
Van Lathan
Will the new director, the generation of stars, be able to wrestle Hollywood from the old guard? It always used to happen, like Cruise took it from Clint Eastwood or he took it from fucking, I guess Burt Reynolds would have been the 70s. They took it from those guys. Will Smith came and had a tug of war with Tom Cruise and Hanks took it.
- [27:46]
Sean Fennessey
We've talked to us in hall on the Renault that a like Hackman would be like, I'll do Enemy of the State with Will Smith.
- [27:52]
Van Lathan
Will Smith.
- [27:52]
Sean Fennessey
Because I got to be the younger guy in a movie in the 60s and now I get to be the old guy in this movie. And we show. I mean, we're gonna talk about Robert Redford later this week. Redford in Spy Game is like a version of that. He's like, I'm handing you the three days of the condor baton. Brad Pitt, it's your time now.
- [28:07]
Van Lathan
Indeed. It's a proposal.
- [28:08]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, exactly.
- [28:09]
Van Lathan
Cruz, he tries to do this.
- [28:12]
Sean Fennessey
No, he does, he does. He showed up to the running mid premiere at City of Ottawa with Glen Powell.
- [28:18]
Van Lathan
He is in sympatico with Glenn Po. If Tom and that bitch Tom the man he the sexiest. True. He the strongest. He run the fastest.
- [28:26]
Sean Fennessey
It's true.
- [28:27]
Van Lathan
Like if Tom and that bitch Tom the man.
- [28:29]
Amanda Davins
This problem is not limited to movies.
- [28:31]
Sean Fennessey
It maps onto our current political climate.
- [28:33]
Amanda Davins
And everywhere in the world, the corporations, I love so much politics, everything. Yeah, it's just. It's a bunch of old people who won't get out of the way.
- [28:43]
Sean Fennessey
In this equation is Glen Powell. Zoran Mamdani, I love that. Okay.
- [28:48]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [28:48]
Van Lathan
He's the harmony of the well. I hope that the mayorship of New York goes better than the movie.
- [28:56]
Amanda Davins
Incredible, incredible.
- [28:57]
Sean Fennessey
Great, great segue. Let's talk about the Running Man.
- [29:00]
Amanda Davins
I do as well.
- [29:01]
Sean Fennessey
Okay. Perfectly teed up Van the Running Man. Let's talk about it right now. This is the new film from Edgar Wright, his first film since Last Night in Soho. It is based on a 40 plus year old novel written by Stephen King under the Richard Bachmann moniker. It stars our guy, Glenn Powell, Josh Brolin, Colman Domingo, William H. Macy, Lee Pace, Michael Cera, Emilia Jones, Jamie Lawson. Great cast. The premise of the movie is in the future, the Running man is the top rated show on television. It's a deadly competition show where contestants must submit themselves to a survival game. If they last 30 days, they earn a wild sum of money. They live in a dystopian future where there is a real division between the haves and have nots. Who can relate? Ben Richards, the Powell character, is convinced that he can survive. And even though he is being tracked throughout the entirety of this game, he goes to great lengths to try to do so. Amanda, I'll start with you. What did you think of the Running Man?
- [29:56]
Amanda Davins
All of the adjectives that I would use to describe this film, which include rickety, implausible, and tonally inconsistent and not to my taste, would suggest that I had a bad time at the film. I did it. I had a good time, or I had like a fine time and was occasionally entertained and I was not angry when leaving the theater. I don't think that I'm an Edgar Wright person, which we have known. And, you know, I think that there are some gaping holes and some issues here, but also sometimes I just like turning my brain off and going to the movies. And this did feel like an old school turning your brain off. And you do need to. To. To go to the movies.
- [30:47]
Sean Fennessey
Dan, what'd you think?
- [30:49]
Van Lathan
So I am an Edgar Wright person for the most part. Scott Pilgrim versus the world is legitimately one of my top. One of the first things you probably knew about me. We talked about this very early.
- [30:58]
Sean Fennessey
One of the first pods we did together on this show.
- [31:01]
Van Lathan
One of my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I love Baby Driver. I love a lot of the stuff that Edgar Wright has done. I think he's best when the tone is very concrete, adhered to, and very linear and clear. This movie is tonally all over the place to me. If the Arnold Schwarzenegger version of this is let's take the conceit and make it into a hyper violent, colorful, winking at the audience type of action movie. There's another version of the film that's probably super serious that really explores the dystopian nature of the film and the income inequality. And it's very dark and it's gritty and there's no. The only time you ever see any lights and is the show itself. And then there's this one which is trying to do both things and doesn't do either of them very well. To me, the movie is fun for 70% of it. Yeah. And then, man, the last part of it, man, like the. The. When you get into the third act, it is just so messy. I'm not sure why they're not trying to kill Ben when they're trying to kill Ben, who he's up against. Like, what's going on? The lady from Task comes into the movie and it's kind of like, what.
- [32:21]
Sean Fennessey
The hell is Amelia Jones?
- [32:23]
Van Lathan
Amelia Jones.
- [32:24]
Amanda Davins
Oh, Amelia Jones is on task. Oh, I had no idea. I spent the whole movie trying to be like, who is that? I don't know who that is. A gal from Koda and then I Googled afterwards and I was like, koda.
- [32:34]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, Beautiful film.
- [32:36]
Amanda Davins
Were we happy with Task at the end?
- [32:38]
Van Lathan
Task? I haven't seen it.
- [32:39]
Amanda Davins
Oh, me either.
- [32:41]
Sean Fennessey
Me either.
- [32:42]
Amanda Davins
That train.
- [32:43]
Edgar Wright
I just, you know, good luck.
- [32:45]
Sean Fennessey
I'm definitely more positive on this movie than both of you guys. I think as far as, like, action movies in 2025 go, to me, it's near the top of the heap. Just in terms of the pure staging of the action, the way that all the sequences go. There's like a level of creativity and execution and practicality that is like the thing that I'm basically begging for in movies. The feeling that I had in Vegas when we saw the trailer. I was like, I need this. I need movies to be like this. I do think that this is a fascinating Paradox, though, of IP opportunity. So the 1987 film starring Schwarzenegger, which you just referenced to me, is not a good film. I know that it has a lot of adoration for mostly men of our age. You know, if you grew up watching it on cable.
- [33:28]
Van Lathan
Jim Brown.
- [33:29]
Sean Fennessey
Yes. And the Richard Dawson of. Of it all. Yeah.
- [33:35]
Van Lathan
It's like a video game.
- [33:36]
Sean Fennessey
It's like a video game. That adaptation comes very shortly after the book is published. But the. The. The 87 film is basically not even an adaptation. It uses just the framework of a game, a survival game show, and goes off and makes an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie in a small. Like, in a very small scale way, in a very, like, subterranean way. This is a very expansive movie that, like, is jumping from city to city, has lots of production design. It's a huge, big budget action movie. And so, like, there's opportunity to significantly improve. Improve the material. However, the book is set in 2025. It's unclear where the movie is set. I don't think it actually says 2025. So instead it just seems like either an alternate reality or another 35 years in the future. And the satire that's in it feels like it's 2025American satire. But we also live in a time in which you can't really satirize America anymore. Cause America is unsaturizable because it is such a preposterous hive of scum and villainy. Like, it is just a really, really bizarre time to be alive.
- [34:40]
Van Lathan
You know what's funny? So there's a part in the movie where there's a game show before the Running Man. Ben is watching on tv. And it's a guy running on a hamster wheel while asking questions. And I thought to Myself, they would make that.
- [34:56]
Amanda Davins
Oh, yeah, a thousand percent.
- [34:58]
Van Lathan
I thought to myself, the running man, everybody's trying to kill him. Maybe we're not to that point yet, but you doing the physical thing while the guy is asking you questions and them watching your heart rate, they would make that show. Yeah, we're to that point.
- [35:12]
Amanda Davins
I do think that they did. There was a marketing stunt for another Stephen King adaptation, the Long Walk, where everyone was on treadmills in the theater and you had to keep going and if you stopped then you left the theater. Now like it was stunned. For another, like Stephen King adapted dystopian story, but like they did it kind of pretty much already in 2025.
- [35:36]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. And that was an odd stunt for that movie, which is incredibly grim and difficult and changes the book's ending in a way not unlike this movie, changes the book's ending, which is something I want to talk about. The one thing with the, the tone is Edgar is at his best when he's doing a postmodern riff on something. When he's saying, like, I've seen every zombie movie. I'm going to make the funniest zombie movie of all time. You know, I've seen every, you know, simple guy with a gun, die Hard style action movie. I'm going to make Hot Fuzz.
- [36:06]
Amanda Davins
You've just isolated also why I'm not an Edgar Wright person because, like, the thing I don't want to hear before we start anything is a guy being like, so you know what? I know this better than anyone and now I'm going to do my own thing.
- [36:17]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, really? But you also don't love the movies that he loves. And I think that's a big reason why.
- [36:21]
Amanda Davins
But there is an attitudinal, like aspect of that, you know, underpinning that that is, that is off putting. The tricky thing in this one with the tone is that like, it doesn't pick one. And so it is. It is at times mean, but never really mean enough. And for the most part pretty toothless about some very, very dark stuff.
- [36:46]
Van Lathan
It's violent. It's not quite violent enough. Yeah, he's angry, but he's not quite mad enough. Yeah, like, and it's. The movie has a tremendous amount of commentary on obviously the income inequality and all these things and urban blight and all of that, but it doesn't really go into those things. So even when the.
- [37:10]
Amanda Davins
It has like a bunch of sick kids, which is incredibly upsetting, but they're just essentially used as, as props or story devices. I Mean, like, the coughing stressed me out the whole time. But there's no development.
- [37:22]
Sean Fennessey
The first 15 minutes of the cough.
- [37:23]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, yeah. There's no character development. It's just, you know, it's kind of like, oh, no, baby. You know, baby gonna be ill. You know, they say cancer a bunch and then, you know, are trying to manipulate your emotions on a very.
- [37:36]
Van Lathan
Even the decision to go on the Running man is made kind of cavalierly. I understand from an intellectual standpoint, like, why he did it, but it's like, you're going to die. Like, no one has ever, ever survived this. You're going to die. And he just kind of. I don't know.
- [37:59]
Sean Fennessey
I didn't really have as much of a problem with this stuff as you guys were saying. I think to me, the bigger issues in terms of the toothlessness is that this is a story that necessitates the ending that. An ending that the book has that this movie doesn't have, that the movie is trying to represent at the end a kind of up with people conceit. And I'll just say for anybody who hasn't read the book, the ending of this book is that when the Ben Richards character gets on the plane in that big final act conclusion, he flies the plane into the network building and it explodes and kills thousands of people and himself. That's the end of the book. Just the fire. And it's like, this is the only way to solve things is this nihilism in the face of this level of corporate greed and, you know, the government run rampant and intersecting with corporate power. And the movie one, I don't think a major studio would let anyone end a movie like that right now. It did happen in Fight Club, which we also talked about last week, but it's very rare for a big movie studio let a movie happen that way.
- [39:02]
Amanda Davins
Also, Fight club is pre 9 11. I mean, that's.
- [39:04]
Van Lathan
Yeah.
- [39:04]
Sean Fennessey
You're not gonna let you. Obviously, in 9 11. You're not gonna do that. Right. And then secondarily, where they land, I think just continues to contribute a bit to the tonal confusion of what Ben Richards stands for, what the movie is trying to stand for. I think it's just. It's unfortunate that it is attempting to be so satirical. Cause I think if you had stripped out some of the satire, it actually would have ultimately been more successful because.
- [39:30]
Amanda Davins
They'Re mostly cheap, broad shots that don't land. Like there's a Kardashians motif, which. Which is obvious and, like, not particularly insightful and, you know, this is the problem with all satire in 2025, which is like, the Internet's got this covered and we've had it covered for 10 years. And so we don't need you to be making jokes about the Americanos Kardashians. Yeah, exactly. And the. There's like a Shake Shack, you know, reference or at something. I'm like, oh, like we're all sad people waiting in line for Shake Shack. But like, actually the lines at Shake Shack have improved dramatically. You know, it's like that's like a 2012 problem. You know, like this script was written when there was just the one Shake Shack. And we watched the Shake Shack. And I'm just like, well, you can pretty much go anywhere now and get a Shake Shack.
- [40:18]
Sean Fennessey
It's funny. It wasn't actually, because if you listen to Edgar talk about it, like, they made this movie really fast too. You know, they made it in a very short window of time. Very unusual. Like, basically in one year, this movie started and finished. So, yeah, this is an interesting one. Let's talk about Glen Powell. Okay, so Glenn is attempting to do a thing that we just spent 20 minutes at the top of this conversation saying is no longer feasible.
- [40:40]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [40:41]
Sean Fennessey
He is attempting to become an old school movie star.
- [40:44]
Edgar Wright
Now.
- [40:44]
Sean Fennessey
He has checked a number of boxes along the way. He has been part of a massive billion dollar franchise movie. He has helped shepherd the reestablishment of an old franchise movie in Twisters. He has opened a rom com.
- [40:59]
Van Lathan
I forgot about that.
- [41:00]
Sean Fennessey
To hundreds of millions of dollars with another young star in Anyone but yout. He has had a hit streaming movie that he worked on with the celebrated auteur in Hitman. He's checked all the boxes. The next box is solo action vehicle. This is very against type for the Glen Powell that we know.
- [41:19]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Sean Fennessey
Glen Powell is a fast talking smoothie who is very funny and very charming and he's a quick witted Texan. That's his Persona as a movie star. Ben Richards is a deeply angry person. He is a proletariat who has been literally wounded by corporate power. What'd you think, Glenn?
- [41:42]
Amanda Davins
I don't think it's his fault. And I thought that there are moments in the script because it is all over the place where he gets to be funny. Like all of his little video cams and. And all of the moments where he's in disguise because Glen Powell loves a Halloween costume more than. And that's great. It's important to find your passions. As Van, as I were discussing on.
- [42:03]
Sean Fennessey
The way in that's true to the book, for the record. The disguises.
- [42:05]
Amanda Davins
Well, but still, then maybe that's why he was into it. Because our guy, he loves to dress up. Loves a fake hairpiece, you know, so I. He can sort of be himself sometimes. There are glimpses of it. And also, like, he is like a physically convincing action star. Like when he is running, when he's sliding under things. I was fine with that.
- [42:29]
Sean Fennessey
The sequence in the YMCA where he, you know, within the sort of the Vet Hotel in Boston. He's doing amazing action star stuff in that set.
- [42:41]
Amanda Davins
So I like. I don't think the character is very well written or well positioned within the film, but I don't blame him for that. I don't know if you, you know.
- [42:51]
Van Lathan
You guys remember a movie called First Night?
- [42:53]
Sean Fennessey
Sure. Heath Ledger.
- [42:54]
Amanda Davins
Heath Ledger, yeah.
- [42:55]
Sean Fennessey
No, no, no, no.
- [42:56]
Van Lathan
Oh, that is like the Heath Ledger movie. I think that is Heath Ledger.
- [43:01]
Amanda Davins
A Knight's Tale.
- [43:02]
Van Lathan
Knight's Tale.
- [43:03]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, my bad. First Night is Martin Lawrence.
- [43:05]
Van Lathan
That's black. Ooh, Black Knight.
- [43:07]
Sean Fennessey
Black Knight.
- [43:08]
Van Lathan
First Knight is Richard Gere. Richard Gere, okay. As Lancelot. Sean Connery as King Arthur. And I can't remember who was Guinevere.
- [43:17]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, we used to do a night movies draft.
- [43:19]
Van Lathan
Night movies draft.
- [43:19]
Amanda Davins
Julia Ormond.
- [43:20]
Van Lathan
Julia Ormond.
- [43:21]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, man, I loved her. God damn loved her. She was Sabrina's smell. A sense of snow.
- [43:26]
Van Lathan
Yeah, that was her and Sabrina, right?
- [43:28]
Sean Fennessey
Am I remembering?
- [43:30]
Van Lathan
So that movie is cast perfectly except for one person. Lancelot. Richard Gere was not Lancelot. Richard Gere was a lot of things. He was beautiful.
- [43:43]
Sean Fennessey
I don't think I've seen First.
- [43:45]
Van Lathan
It's actually kind of one of.
- [43:47]
Amanda Davins
He looks pretty silly. I'm just looking at the poster and he's like stuffed into the suit.
- [43:51]
Van Lathan
But Richard Gere is not Lancelot.
- [43:53]
Sean Fennessey
This is outrageous. Do you know who directed this movie? Who do you don't know?
- [43:56]
Van Lathan
I don't know.
- [43:58]
Sean Fennessey
Jerry Zucker, the man who directed Airplane and Top Secret? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic.
- [44:04]
Van Lathan
And so.
- [44:04]
Amanda Davins
He looks so uncomfortable.
- [44:07]
Van Lathan
He's not. He's just. He's not.
- [44:08]
Amanda Davins
He's wearing the breastplate, but it doesn't fit him.
- [44:12]
Van Lathan
It was the first time I can remember a conversation about casting. I'm super into King Arthur. I love Excalibur for all of its crazy wackiness and all of that stuff.
- [44:22]
Amanda Davins
Mist of Avalon.
- [44:24]
Van Lathan
Miss of Avalon.
- [44:25]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, Miss of Avalon.
- [44:26]
Amanda Davins
I learned a lot.
- [44:26]
Van Lathan
I watched the Merlin show when it came on NBC, like all of that stuff, right? It was like they had a show NBC on Merlin. Very weird. Um, so all of this stuff just to. Great actor. Super. Just not quite right for that role. That's how I felt about Glenn Powell in this. Like, Glen Powell. Everything Twisters is just him in his.
- [44:49]
Amanda Davins
In his bag.
- [44:50]
Van Lathan
Right. Hangman doing his thing. Hitman, all of this stuff, it works. This just wasn't quite for him. Now there are people, actors like Glen Powell with technique, who can then become this role. I just don't think there was enough narrative clarity for him to kind of do that here. And it kind of. The movie really hums when Michael Cera is in the film in that part, because it is so clear on what's happening. Weird guy with a vendetta killing all of these people. And it's. And you're just on. You're loving everything that's happening.
- [45:31]
Amanda Davins
I thought Michael Cera was great. May I just say that? I literally had no idea what was happening. When he hits the button, I was like, why did you do that? What's going on? I didn't understand the narrative stakes. I didn't understand the motivation. I was like, I literally do not understand what's happening.
- [45:48]
Van Lathan
Revenge for his daddy. Yeah.
- [45:50]
Sean Fennessey
I think it was like a chaos agent, kind of completion of his mission.
- [45:53]
Amanda Davins
And is his mom in on it? I don't know. It's just a bunch of people running around in a hallway.
- [45:58]
Sean Fennessey
I like that part, but I like that. I think I like that part because Michael Cera is.
- [46:01]
Amanda Davins
He was very funny.
- [46:03]
Sean Fennessey
He is an Edgar Wright actor. Yeah. Like, there is a tone that. He knows how to do that.
- [46:07]
Edgar Wright
He knows how to be.
- [46:09]
Sean Fennessey
Crushes it in Scott Pilgrim. He's so great in that movie.
- [46:11]
Amanda Davins
The performance is great, but in terms of basic, like plotting, scripting and character motivation and explaining to you how we get from A to B to C, I was baffled. I was quite literally just no idea. So, you know, again, I blame the script, not the performances.
- [46:29]
Van Lathan
But as far as Glenn is concerned, like, we have. We kind of remember movie stars in nostalgia. So we think as soon as Cruise took off, it was hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. And we don't remember that. It wasn't like that. No, it wasn't like that at all. So there are. This movie probably will be a hit. It probably will make a lot of money. But if people are going to look at this film, which I don't think is a strong display of his talent, and use this as a referendum on him as a movie star, I think that would be unfair to him because I think he's already Kind of shown that. But in this film, he's miscast to me. To me, in this film, it doesn't really. You wouldn't have put a young Matthew McConaughey in this role. And I don't think.
- [47:13]
Amanda Davins
Well, they might have tried and it wouldn't have worked out. Like many young Matthew McConaughey roles, it's interesting.
- [47:18]
Van Lathan
It took him a second to kind of find his thing as well.
- [47:20]
Sean Fennessey
I do think one of the. There's two types of action stars especially, that are in the mold of these kinds of films. One is your typical Stallone, Schwarzenegger, tough guy. Like, right now, Jason Statham is probably the height of that for us. Right. He is probably the single most reliable mainstream lunkhead guy with a gun that.
- [47:41]
Van Lathan
Just kicks the shit out of you, kick you in your face. No matter what it is, the conceit is, hey, I'm an electrician. You fucking turn the lights out on the wrong family.
- [47:49]
Sean Fennessey
That's right.
- [47:50]
Van Lathan
Everyone must die.
- [47:51]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. And the Electrician would be a good film for you and I to write together.
- [47:54]
Van Lathan
He is the electrician.
- [47:56]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, those. You go to those movies to watch Jason Statham kick a guy in the neck. Like, that's the whole reason to go. And those movies are good for what they are.
- [48:05]
Amanda Davins
I go to learn about the beekeepers and the rogue society, you know, in the very best to take down Hillary Clinton.
- [48:12]
Sean Fennessey
Yes, it's very good. In the very best of Jason Statham's movies, you get stuff like that. There's another version of stardom, of action stardom that Bruce Willis helped to bring along the kind of, like, fast talking, I can't believe I got, I'm in this shit kind of star. Mel Gibson was one of these stars, the guy with the gun. Jamie Foxx has been a guy like this. There have been guys like this where it means that you can do every phase of movie stardom. It's not surprising to me that Glenn Powell wants to be able to be the guy with the gun in a movie, but maybe he's not a guy with a gun.
- [48:44]
Van Lathan
Well, I mean, I think he could be the cowboy with the gun.
- [48:47]
Sean Fennessey
I think he could be Glenn in a Western. That would not be fucking.
- [48:52]
Van Lathan
I think he could be the soldier with a gun.
- [48:56]
Amanda Davins
Oh, I gotta see another Western.
- [48:58]
Sean Fennessey
Let's just shoot out at the OK crowd all over again.
- [49:00]
Van Lathan
If there was a World War II movie where he had to be an Army Ranger, like, if he was in Saber Private Ryan, he could be that guy with the gun. But to be this Role would have been perfect for a young actor.
- [49:11]
Amanda Davins
He actually would be a really good Private Ryan. And Saving Private Ryan. He can do it. He's a jackass. Yeah.
- [49:16]
Edgar Wright
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Van Lathan
So.
- [49:17]
Sean Fennessey
So it bold for that.
- [49:19]
Van Lathan
But yeah, a young Bruce Willis would have been, like, really good for this role. Super angry.
- [49:24]
Amanda Davins
Maybe his career didn't go the way he wanted.
- [49:27]
Sean Fennessey
His next movie is a J.J. abrams, I think. I think it's a fantasy movie.
- [49:32]
Amanda Davins
Oh, okay.
- [49:33]
Van Lathan
What it's called.
- [49:34]
Sean Fennessey
It's Untitled Ghost Rider is the title now. I don't know if that's actually going to be the final title. Not the Ghostwriter TV series. I don't think it's based on that. If it's based on the Ghostwriter TV series, that's a w. Wild choice by JJ Ghost writer or writer?
- [49:47]
Van Lathan
Oh, right. I'm about to say I would have heard of that.
- [49:50]
Sean Fennessey
No, no.
- [49:50]
Amanda Davins
The ghost writer 90s TV show was incredibly important.
- [49:56]
Sean Fennessey
Unsurprising to learn that when you know what that show is. I liked it, too. I just want to say I thought Colman Domingo was great in this movie.
- [50:02]
Van Lathan
It was fantastic.
- [50:03]
Sean Fennessey
Every time he was on screen, I was having a lot of fun. He really knew the assignment. I thought he crushed it. He had a lot to live up to because Dawson doing that part was, like, very shocking at the time. Because it's the guy from Family Feud. Yes. Yeah.
- [50:15]
Van Lathan
And Coleman embodied it and was and did the whole night. I thought it was great.
- [50:19]
Sean Fennessey
Okay, so you didn't like it? You kind of liked it. I liked it.
- [50:23]
Amanda Davins
I was just kind of like, shrug emoji about it. Why not?
- [50:26]
Sean Fennessey
You know, why not? Movies. 20, 25 movies.
- [50:29]
Van Lathan
I will tell you what. You know who I like. No matter what he does, I think. I think one of my most. These are my two most dependable guys right now, okay? Denzel Washington. Capital D. Dependable.
- [50:43]
Sean Fennessey
Okay. Bold choice there.
- [50:44]
Van Lathan
Josh Brolin.
- [50:46]
Amanda Davins
Strong agree.
- [50:47]
Van Lathan
If Josh Brolin is doing his thing, I'm fucking with it, man. So I'm fucking with Josh Brolin. If he's talking shit to people in Sicario, I'm fucking with Josh Brolin. When he's doing his thing, I'm fucking with him, man.
- [51:00]
Sean Fennessey
If I just came into a pod wearing those veneers that Brolin is wearing and didn't say anything, would you guys let me get away with it? Or would you mention it on the podcast, Sean? What would you do?
- [51:11]
Van Lathan
I throw some walnuts on the table.
- [51:16]
Amanda Davins
I'm trying to not comment. I'm just trying to go along with your ride, you know? Why be supportive of you?
- [51:22]
Sean Fennessey
Are you going to get veneers? Is that why you're not. You're trying to hold off.
- [51:25]
Amanda Davins
I also, like, I've said about it, I'm not going to get them. But, like, I do.
- [51:32]
Sean Fennessey
You're on an insane journey. No one knows what's going on inside of you right now. This is crazy tough.
- [51:38]
Amanda Davins
I'm like, I'm not going to do it. Because was. No, I'm not. I, like, I. I talk about all of these things.
- [51:42]
Sean Fennessey
Have you, like, getting a butt lift? Like, where are you at? Like, are you really going down the whole journey of tend to change.
- [51:48]
Amanda Davins
The only surgeries that I actually would do would be, like, functional. So like breast lift. Because, like, I breastfed two kids and it's just like, it's just. It's a crime, you know, like, they don't.
- [51:58]
Van Lathan
Right. But that's functional.
- [51:59]
Amanda Davins
But that is functional. Like, I just need somewhere to put them, you know, so. But veneers I've thought about just.
- [52:07]
Sean Fennessey
Because I'm like, I promise you, if you walk in here with me, I will make mention of it on the pod.
- [52:12]
Amanda Davins
But, like, what if I got. No. That's why I can't do it.
- [52:15]
Sean Fennessey
Right.
- [52:15]
Amanda Davins
And also, it's like, not aesthetically for.
- [52:17]
Sean Fennessey
Me, but, like, it also changes your speaking voice.
- [52:20]
Amanda Davins
I know I'm not gonna do it. I just, like, we are all in front of cameras.
- [52:24]
Sean Fennessey
I'm Amanda Dark man.
- [52:25]
Amanda Davins
Well, I'm not doing it.
- [52:27]
Van Lathan
Sometimes, you know, you know people with veneers and you see them when they first come on and you just. You can't. You can't not.
- [52:35]
Sean Fennessey
It's all you can think about. That's all you can think about. Even in this movie. I get obviously why the Dan Killian character has the veneers, but the whole time I'm watching Brolin, I'm like, what is in your mouth?
- [52:45]
Amanda Davins
So you mentioned Redford, and we've been doing like a lot of. Relax. We've been doing a lot of Redford prep. And so I've been watching a lot of older movies and I guess it was. Maybe I was rewatching, I don't know. But everyone just had, you know, perfect veneer teeth in the. In like 1986 when I. Whatever movie I was watching and I was like, they all do look nice, you know, I associated it with movie star teeth. And maybe I'd like to have movie star teeth too, but I'm not going to.
- [53:13]
Sean Fennessey
Good luck.
- [53:14]
Amanda Davins
As I said, I just think about it because we're in front of cameras all of the time, and they're not designed to support aging faces.
- [53:21]
Sean Fennessey
Just like Ben Richards.
- [53:22]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [53:23]
Sean Fennessey
On camera. Stop filming me.
- [53:25]
Van Lathan
Stop filming me. Do you feel like the movie did a good job of maintaining the tension of his chase the entire time?
- [53:34]
Sean Fennessey
For the most part, I do think it really slows down and falls into a really gnarly area when he stops Emilia Jones in the street. And then I kind of got confused as to what the momentum of the movie was meant to be. So you were mentioning it, too. It gets a little bit confusing. It is, again, it is like, it's a very faithful adaptation all the way up until the end, and that may have just been a huge mistake.
- [54:00]
Amanda Davins
To be so faithful is the part where they don't shoot Ben and Emilia Jones, whatever her character's name is, and then they get, like, waved through to the jet, that's all.
- [54:14]
Sean Fennessey
Well, it's because he's suggesting that he has a bomb on him. And that is also in the book.
- [54:17]
Amanda Davins
Right, right.
- [54:19]
Sean Fennessey
He's saying he has an explosive device, but then the whole time, Killian knows that he doesn't. As soon as he gets on the.
- [54:25]
Van Lathan
Plane, has the shit on it.
- [54:27]
Sean Fennessey
But then he's making this decision to offer him a role as a hunter.
- [54:31]
Amanda Davins
They could have given us more time with Lee Pace without his mask on.
- [54:35]
Sean Fennessey
I was wondering why he's wearing the mask the entire time. Because Lee Pace, you know, obviously, he has scars his character in the film, but handsome guy, right?
- [54:42]
Amanda Davins
And they even acknowledged, like, when he finally takes his mask off, like, the Ben character kind of, you know, jokingly cat calls him, and I was like, yes, that's what we're all thinking right now.
- [54:53]
Van Lathan
Just annoying Mallory, she couldn't believe she didn't like it.
- [54:55]
Amanda Davins
I mean, it just seems like it's a real waste of Lee Pace's time and handsomeness, personally.
- [55:03]
Sean Fennessey
Well, I guess that'll do it for the Running Man. Any closing thoughts? Because I don't think you did you see now youw See Me.
- [55:08]
Van Lathan
I have not seen now you See Me.
- [55:09]
Sean Fennessey
I didn't think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:10]
Van Lathan
But those movies hold a very, very special place in my heart. I just like Magician.
- [55:17]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [55:17]
Sean Fennessey
Why? I did. I love Magician as well. I'm not sure. Well, don't worry about it. Well, Amanda, I will talk about it.
- [55:24]
Van Lathan
Okay, cool.
- [55:25]
Amanda Davins
It's great to see you.
- [55:26]
Van Lathan
Are you telling me there are no tricks in the movie? They gotta be tricks.
- [55:28]
Sean Fennessey
Tricks. There's one. One trick scene.
- [55:31]
Van Lathan
Okay, well, then they up.
- [55:33]
Sean Fennessey
Okay.
- [55:35]
Van Lathan
I'll check back when you get.
- [55:37]
Sean Fennessey
Do you have any other movie thoughts now that we have you here? I don't know. I don't even know when you're gonna be back. What do you want to come back for?
- [55:42]
Van Lathan
Just whatever's out there that you know. You guys, it's always an interesting conversation sitting here. Guys, this is one of my favorite things to do, is just talk about movies. You know, I am much like you guys in that I sometimes see things and I wonder, like, what we're trying to be told about the culture that we love so much and, like, how we should be thinking about it. And I'm not sure. I'm not sure how we should be thinking about it because there are a lot of interesting young stars, a ton of interesting young filmmakers, a ton of them. Like, so many people with so many different perspectives and all of this stuff. And I wonder if our brains even relate to film in the same ways that it used to, or if there's just so much other stuff in there now that we don't have the relationship to movies anymore like we used to.
- [56:27]
Sean Fennessey
I know some people do. I know that it is getting to be smaller and smaller. But I also think the one other point that I wanted to make that worries me a little bit from the very top of this conversation is that Jennifer Lawrence and the Rock and all these big stars making these much smaller movies feels a little bit like when all the movie stars started shifting towards television.
- [56:49]
Van Lathan
I remember that.
- [56:50]
Sean Fennessey
And that kind of spiked TV in a bad way. We thought it was going to be good, but actually the best shows, the Wire, the Sopranos, Mad Men, even Sex and the City, we didn't really have a huge relationship to the stars of those shows before they became stars. But then when TV was like, it's very important that, you know, Meryl Streep and Meryl Streepman, Nicole Kidman and Kate Winsletter, these are your TV stars. Something just kind of shifted and then that became the only way to make a TV show. And it hurt tv. I think in some ways it does feel like TV is sort of evening out right now, which is more of a conversation that the watch can have. But for movies, I do worry if the life raft of independent cinema at scale for movie stars is where they all start going, that things are going to continue to tip in a direction that is not sustainable.
- [57:34]
Van Lathan
Well, that's why I think it's very important for an established movie middle class. And I think it's like you have people talk about the event film. Well, we used to just go see the movie in the theater. That's all what we would do. We just go see the movie in the theater. The movie come out. Booty call come out. We go see the movie in the theater. All right. Woo comes out. We go see the movie. The movie would be in the theater.
- [57:56]
Sean Fennessey
You're only referring to black led sex comedies right now.
- [58:00]
Van Lathan
But I'm saying we would see them.
- [58:02]
Sean Fennessey
You would see those two films.
- [58:03]
Van Lathan
We would go. But you know other movies as well.
- [58:06]
Sean Fennessey
Like are there any other movies that you saw?
- [58:07]
Van Lathan
Joe versus the Volcano.
- [58:08]
Sean Fennessey
We already talked about that.
- [58:10]
Van Lathan
We talked about this like first night. These are movies with big stars in them and stuff. But we will go. And so now we just. All of the movies.
- [58:17]
Amanda Davins
A nice tale, huh?
- [58:18]
Sean Fennessey
Woo. Is terrible.
- [58:19]
Van Lathan
It has a special place in my heart.
- [58:20]
Sean Fennessey
Okay, Booty call is good.
- [58:21]
Van Lathan
Y Booty call is hysterical.
- [58:22]
Sean Fennessey
It's very funny.
- [58:24]
Van Lathan
But like now I think to what we're saying is like you have the really important A24 movie that you can't be viable in film conversations if you haven't seen it. And then you have the Minecraft or whatever film that is a fun amusement part time in the theater. Who is going to establish the good worth it film in the middle that doesn't change the world, but was cool and interesting to talk about. That keeps to me film healthy.
- [58:56]
Amanda Davins
I mean this is the central problem. It's gone. And it is what keeps film healthy.
- [59:02]
Van Lathan
It is Robot lady movie man. Go see the robot lady movie companion.
- [59:06]
Sean Fennessey
Oh yeah, but that's genre.
- [59:09]
Amanda Davins
Just movies for adults that don't have to make a billion dollars but that grownups would go see in theaters. It's just, it's TV now and it's dead and it's sad.
- [59:21]
Sean Fennessey
It was wonderful to see you.
- [59:22]
Van Lathan
Yeah, wonderful to see you guys as well.
- [59:23]
Sean Fennessey
Thanks for coming on.
- [59:24]
Amanda Davins
I'll see you at Wicked.
- [59:25]
Van Lathan
Exactly. I'm glad they'll be there.
- [59:29]
Sean Fennessey
This episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Oh, what fun. Nordstrom has tons of gifts under $100 for all your favorite people all in one place. Like beauty and grooming sets, Ugg gifts, jewelry and toys.
- [59:42]
Amanda Davins
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Sean Fennessey
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- [59:58]
Edgar Wright
This episode is brought to you by Salty Cheezy. Cheez It Crackers. Should this whole podcast just be me eating Cheez It? That'd be a top notch podcast. You could hear Them crunching in my mouth. You could think about how salty and savory and delicious they are. You can just get Cheez it on the brain. Oh, man, those Cheez it cravings, they get you. Anyway, what was I talking about?
- [60:19]
Van Lathan
Oh, yeah.
- [60:20]
Edgar Wright
Oh, Cheez It. Yeah, Cheez It Crackers. Go check them out. This episode is brought to you by mobile1.mobile1. Synthetic motor oil knows your car is your happy place. But did you know your happy place? That's a happy place. It's not stuck in rush hour traffic. We've all been there, especially in la. It's always terrible. And the entire time you're sitting there, you know deep down that your car's favorite place is on the open road singing its favorite song while you sing along to yours. Mobile One, for the love of driving, visit. Loveofdriving us to learn more.
- [60:52]
Sean Fennessey
Okay, we're back. It's just me and you now. We can really talk.
- [60:55]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [60:55]
Sean Fennessey
And we can really say how we feel. I was gonna talk about Keeper on this episode, which is Oz Perkins new horror movie, which is an interesting movie that I kind of liked and had some notes on, but I need to talk with somebody about it after more people have seen it, because it very much hinges on how. What transpires and the plot. So to just sit here in front of you and tell you whether or not Keeper is good or great or.
- [61:21]
Amanda Davins
Whatever, I mean, I see it, but then you might.
- [61:24]
Sean Fennessey
I don't know, there's some things about it you would enjoy. Tatiana Maslany and Rossif Sutherland, who is Donald Sutherland's son, is very good in the movie, but it is a little twisty. And so I don't want to ruin it for you. So we'll set aside Keeper. We'll talk about it later. At some point this month on the show, we have to talk about now youw See Me now youw Don't.
- [61:48]
Amanda Davins
Yes.
- [61:49]
Sean Fennessey
Now, this is the third film in the now youw See Me franchise.
- [61:52]
Amanda Davins
Yes.
- [61:52]
Sean Fennessey
Van mentioned that he loves those movies because he loves magical stuff.
- [61:56]
Amanda Davins
Yes.
- [61:57]
Sean Fennessey
Do you love these movies?
- [61:58]
Amanda Davins
I've seen the first one. I haven't seen the second one. I remember very little of the first one and didn't revisit it before. I went to see a screening of this movie for which I purchased, like an extra large glass of. I think it was Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc. I think that's what they were serving at the MacGuffins.
- [62:16]
Sean Fennessey
Nice. Can you bring your cocktail from the MacGuffins into the film?
- [62:19]
Amanda Davins
You can and I did. I mean, this wasn't a cocktail. It was wine. I checked to see if they had Campari, but it was a Burbank screening room. No, this was Sentry. So I drove across the city to see the magic movie. And then I said, I will have a large glass of vacation wine and watch the film now youw See Me three. And that was the spirit that I brought to the film. And I would say that the film rewarded me in kind.
- [62:42]
Sean Fennessey
I had a similar reaction. This film is directed by Ruben Fleischer.
- [62:46]
Amanda Davins
Yes.
- [62:47]
Sean Fennessey
It returns the vast majority of the now youw See Me cast, including the Four Horsemen, Jesse Eisenberg, Woody Harrelson, Dave Franco, and Isla Fisher.
- [62:55]
Amanda Davins
Yes.
- [62:55]
Sean Fennessey
In addition to that, we're kind of getting into spoiler territory the minute we start talking about it. Cause there's some reveals about who comes back in the movie, but Lizzie Kaplan comes back in this movie. Morgan Freeman comes back in this movie. And then we have this new trio of magicians who are joining the cast. Among them, Dominic Sessa, who people may remember from the holdovers. Ariana Greenblatt, who was one of the stars of Barbie, and Justice Smith.
- [63:18]
Amanda Davins
I had another with Ariana greenblatt. I spent 20 minutes trying to be like, what was she in? Who was she? And then I was like, right, of course.
- [63:27]
Sean Fennessey
Barbie, Barbie, Barbie. Borderlands. She was in that film. I don't think you saw that one. So the log line of this movie is the Four Horsemen. This quartet of magicians are reunited to recruit three skilled illusionists for a high stakes heist involving the theft of the world's largest queen diamond from a powerful family crime syndicate. Now, the head of this powerful family crime syndicate is Rosamund Pike. I don't think this could have worked out any better for me and you.
- [63:53]
Amanda Davins
No, and I. And I. To spoil the movie further, Rosamund pike is playing a South African diamond heiress and entrepreneur is a generous term. And she does a South African accent.
- [64:11]
Sean Fennessey
She does.
- [64:11]
Amanda Davins
I did not know that until we started. And I was just like, first of all, like, we need to get Chris back from London Stats.
- [64:18]
Sean Fennessey
It is the most diplomatic community movie of all time.
- [64:23]
Amanda Davins
Christopher in and it's wild. I. I was like, I can't believe that this is happening. And I was so happy that this is happening.
- [64:32]
Sean Fennessey
I was quietly cackling at every single line.
- [64:35]
Amanda Davins
Reading is amazing. She is having the time of her life.
- [64:40]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [64:41]
Amanda Davins
She as. She looks great. I literally, I would click through, like, what Rosamund pike wore to be like a diamond villain in now youw See Me now youw Diamonds.
- [64:50]
Sean Fennessey
She's a Bond villain. It's a total Bond villain character.
- [64:53]
Amanda Davins
So funny and sets the tone for the rest of the movie. Everyone else is taking it, like, a little bit more seriously than she is, with the exception of Dominic Cesso, who I thought was quite funny.
- [65:04]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, he was pretty funny. I mean, he's kind of doing an imitation of Jesse Eisenberg in these movies.
- [65:08]
Amanda Davins
And Jesse Eisenberg is also like, they're the most in on the joke on purpose. But good for her. Good for everyone who thought that this would be a funny thing to do, because it was.
- [65:19]
Sean Fennessey
I. First of all, she's 46. She looks amazing.
- [65:22]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [65:22]
Sean Fennessey
Second of all, she's having a blast. And the accent, I have no idea if it's accurate. It is probably not extraordinarily entertaining to listen to. And these movies, I would say I don't have the most warm relationship to them because I love magic and I love heist movies. These are magic heist movies. These should be the best movies of all time. And they're okay. They're okay. One is okay. Two is less good.
- [65:48]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [65:50]
Sean Fennessey
Three, I think, is definitely better than two. Maybe even better than one, though, obviously less novel. It does have that interesting feeling of a Bond film, though, where it's sort of like the lore doesn't matter that much.
- [66:01]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [66:02]
Sean Fennessey
We're just kind of on to the next one. You just have to have a familiarity with the characters. And if you know that, like, okay, this guy is. He's the illusionist. This is the mentalist. This guy does card tricks and throws cards at you. Like, if you just know, like, what M and Q do in the Bond movies, you're good. This is kind of the same thing.
- [66:18]
Amanda Davins
I don't remember what any of them do, but then they just kind of like, pop up and then they're just like cards are flying somewhere or someone's. And I go along with it. I don't take magic as seriously as you do as a craft.
- [66:30]
Sean Fennessey
So I don't know if I take it seriously, per se.
- [66:33]
Amanda Davins
I admire it.
- [66:33]
Sean Fennessey
I admire it.
- [66:34]
Amanda Davins
I admire it, too.
- [66:35]
Sean Fennessey
I do.
- [66:36]
Amanda Davins
It is like a performance and an art form. I don't know that much about the nuts and bolts, and I'm not really trying to solve the tricks ever.
- [66:44]
Sean Fennessey
Well, and I'll say, nor do I. I am not a trick solver. And I never did magic. I never performed magic. I never tried to learn how to perform magic. What I like about it is the same thing that I like about movies, which is this feeling of how did they do that? I love that feeling. You know, even in a movie like the Running man, which we had some notes about, there are sequences in that movie where I'm like, like, ooh, like, how did he do that? How do you pull that off? That's my favorite feeling. So magic, when done well, it gives you that feeling, and it can be a big disappearing elephant illusion, but for me, more often it's close up magic. It's like things that are right in front of you. I love that. It's really hard to put that in a movie.
- [67:21]
Amanda Davins
Right. Because the answer to how did they do that otherwise? Well, it's a movie, so they did movie magic or they did something or they CGI'd it. I agree. So I. It doesn't offend me as much because I'm not there being like, I wish you were doing the close up magic to me. But I would agree that the illusions in this film were not exactly like, you know, maybe they felt a little bit more like an Arrested Development reference.
- [67:47]
Sean Fennessey
I agree with you. There was some job energy coming off of these.
- [67:51]
Amanda Davins
There was also one set that was like, almost literally the set of David Copperfield in Vegas, which set. Well, one of the times when they're doing their Pup up magic show or something, and I'm like, this looks alarmingly like an alien puppet is about to come out and start farting root beer or whatever before exploring daddy issues.
- [68:09]
Sean Fennessey
Spoilers for David Copperfield's live show. There's one major central set piece in the second act of the film where all the characters are led to a mansion. And in this mansion, they will learn what is really going on with this case that they're gonna have to solve around this diamond that Rosamund pike possesses. And in that mansion, they all get to perform their magic.
- [68:31]
Amanda Davins
Right.
- [68:31]
Sean Fennessey
And they all get to have a little set piece showpiece where this is what I do, and this is the thing that I do, and this is what I'm capable of.
- [68:38]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, it's like the getting the gang together montage, but also the magic montage.
- [68:42]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, it's like the 360 shot in the Avengers of, like, all of their powers getting ready to fight aliens. But in this case, it's just like, here's how I throw cards at guys. I enjoyed that. It's the most comic book movie quality of this movie. Yeah, it definitely doesn't take itself too seriously in the story until we get to the end. And then there is definitely a very heavy note that shows us why the movie is playing out in this way and who the real villain slash hero of the movie is. I don't want to spoil that for people because it doesn't help us to talk through that anyway. It's not going to change how you feel about it specifically?
- [69:16]
Amanda Davins
No, it kind of worked well. I was like, oh, so that's why you did all of these things? And obviously if I were thinking hard about it, I would know that that's why they did all these things. But it's a now you see me movie, so I thought we were just doing like a Bond villain take on everything.
- [69:31]
Sean Fennessey
Yes, that's.
- [69:33]
Amanda Davins
I mean, it was fine. I didn't have a bad time. I really. I wonder how much time the original Four Horsemen or everyone besides Jesse Eisenberg spent. It seemed like it was maybe a one to two day commitment for Woody Harrelson.
- [69:50]
Sean Fennessey
I think part of the reason that the new crew, the new crop has been injected into this movie was to create some balance, I believe. Isla Fisher was not in the second now youw See Me, so her returning to the franchise was kind of a deal. Isla Fisher, what do you think about her?
- [70:11]
Amanda Davins
The heels that she's wearing in this film are very, very high. I always wonder how someone can. Can walk doing those. So I was very impressed with that.
- [70:20]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. Five feet.
- [70:20]
Amanda Davins
She is petite. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But I just.
- [70:23]
Sean Fennessey
That's not a judgment on her performance or her personality as a movie star.
- [70:27]
Amanda Davins
I. I spent most of the time that she was on screen looking at the size of her shoes and being like, wow, that must be really hard to do that. So that, in a way is a judgment on her performance in this film.
- [70:40]
Sean Fennessey
I was distracted by other things. She hasn't, you know, she was. I don't know if she was a big star, but she did carry a few movies. Confessions of a Shopaholic, you may recall.
- [70:49]
Amanda Davins
I do.
- [70:50]
Sean Fennessey
Obviously. Arguably the funniest part of Wedding Crashers hasn't really been in a movie of note in a good long while, five or six years. And then this year she's got a voice in Dogman. She has a cameo in the Bridget Jones movie. Yeah, she's got a cut out.
- [71:04]
Amanda Davins
It was mostly cut out.
- [71:05]
Sean Fennessey
Yes. It's like one scene right at the beginning. Yeah.
- [71:07]
Amanda Davins
No, she's like. She's like the neighbor and you're like, wait, is that Isla Fisher? But then it's very clear that they shot more that didn't.
- [71:15]
Sean Fennessey
She's in J. Kelly for a hot minute.
- [71:17]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [71:18]
Sean Fennessey
And she's in this movie Playdate, which is Actually, the movie that I was thinking of when I was thinking of what action movies are. Don't worry, Playdate is not infringing upon your big dreams. But this is an Amazon prime movie that just came out maybe yesterday, and her being back is kind of funny. I guess she just got divorced from Sacha Baron Cohen.
- [71:40]
Amanda Davins
I was gonna say. Yeah, maybe she's got financial changes in the home.
- [71:43]
Sean Fennessey
Makes sense. Dave Franco. Fine.
- [71:48]
Amanda Davins
It was funnier. Jack Wilder when he was on the studio talking about being in these movies while being really stoned.
- [71:56]
Sean Fennessey
They pay the bills in character. Woody Harrelson's character is a mentalist.
- [72:00]
Van Lathan
Yeah.
- [72:00]
Sean Fennessey
Do you know about mentalism?
- [72:02]
Amanda Davins
There was a show on CBS called the Mentalist.
- [72:05]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, but do you know what mentalism is?
- [72:08]
Amanda Davins
No, I don't.
- [72:09]
Sean Fennessey
Could you suss it out from watching these films? You can read people's minds sort of. They can sort of deduce truths based on information that is shared.
- [72:19]
Amanda Davins
Okay, so are you just like Sherlock Holmes?
- [72:22]
Sean Fennessey
You're like a mind detective.
- [72:23]
Amanda Davins
Okay, so you're Sherlock Holmesing it. You're reading the clues. You're not actually accessing someone's.
- [72:28]
Sean Fennessey
Well, there's some debate about that.
- [72:30]
Amanda Davins
Say more.
- [72:31]
Sean Fennessey
Well, I don't know more. By no means an expert in mentalism. There's a very famous, very famous sequence in Hard Knocks, the series where we follow an NFL team before the season.
- [72:47]
Amanda Davins
Starts on HBO is being used very loosely there, but continue.
- [72:50]
Sean Fennessey
Okay, where a mentalist. I want to say it was the Cowboys season with Mike McCarthy.
- [72:55]
Amanda Davins
Sounds right.
- [72:56]
Sean Fennessey
A mentalist goes into the room. No, it was the Rams season with Sean McVay. A mentalist goes into the room before the season and he reads all the players and makes predictions on the season, and he's extremely confident, and he's able to pull dramatic information out of people in real time in the room. He's a very gifted mentalist. And in retrospect, no one, he didn't get anything right during his predictions. Nevertheless, watching it was very entertaining. This is how I feel about Woody Harrelson in 2025. Like, I'm not really sure what's going on under the surface here, but I'm having fun. I'm having fun watching you cook.
- [73:30]
Amanda Davins
I spent a lot of time trying to imagine, like, what his Maui green screen studio setup is like.
- [73:38]
Sean Fennessey
He's on set for some of this. Come on.
- [73:40]
Amanda Davins
He's on set for, like, three days. But the opening, which, spoiler alert. It turns out that the four Horsemen are holograms for the opening, but that was clearly it like, structurally written into the text so that they had to spend less time actually there.
- [73:56]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, yeah. These. These movies are. Are fine. I think they're, like, comforting in a way. Yeah.
- [74:04]
Amanda Davins
To me, like I said, I didn't have a bad time. I went with a friend. We each got a glass of wine. I was like, okay, let's, like, go to the movies, you know? And it was a real go to the movies type. Energy in the room.
- [74:16]
Edgar Wright
Yeah.
- [74:17]
Amanda Davins
The question is whether that energy really exists for anyone under the age of 55.
- [74:25]
Sean Fennessey
That is a. That is a question I wanted to ask you guys. Very brief side. Hard Knocks, Oz, the Mentalist, New York Jets, Aaron Rodgers, Sean. So you memory. Hold that. That must be why I remember it so not well. That's it. But the question I had was, when this movie came out, I was 12 years old. It was like crack to me. I've probably watched the ending on YouTube 550 times. But now I'm 25, and I don't care at all about this movie. I'd be fine if I never saw it. I think most people my age now, I feel like they kind of missed the boat a little bit. My question is kind of like, who is this movie for? Like, when this came out in 2013, did adults aged 30 to 44 care about this movie and have a relationship?
- [75:07]
Amanda Davins
I don't know if I saw it in theaters.
- [75:10]
Sean Fennessey
I mean, I definitely did. Yeah. I remember being very disappointed by it. It has, like, a big dramatic twist at the end that's just like, what. How did that happen? Regarding Mark Ruffalo's character in the first film.
- [75:21]
Amanda Davins
Sure. Right.
- [75:23]
Sean Fennessey
And I remember getting, like, pretty middling reviews, and there are some reviews that will tell you it's the worst movie of all time. It's one of those films where if you, like. If you look at letterbox, you'll never see a more dramatic. My favorite movie of all time to zero stars.
- [75:36]
Amanda Davins
Right.
- [75:37]
Sean Fennessey
Because there's so much about it that is implausible and stupid and everybody is cashing a paycheck very clearly. And if you like magic, it's not a great magic movie. If you like heists, it's not a great heist movie. But I disagree with the idea of the, like, who is this for? Because I think that this movie is actually gonna do very well. And I think that there are people who are like, this is a reliable property to me, and I know what I'm getting.
- [75:57]
Amanda Davins
I do also think most people your age, Jack, who saw it at 13, have not ascended to the Upper echelons of film snobbery that you have.
- [76:06]
Sean Fennessey
Their favorite film is not Die, My Love.
- [76:07]
Amanda Davins
We say that with pride.
- [76:09]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [76:09]
Amanda Davins
So, you know, you keep doing you, but do you think young people are.
- [76:14]
Sean Fennessey
Gonna show up for this movie? I do. I went to a promo screening. Now, obviously, those are people who are actively interested, but there's like heavy laughter and applause at the arrival of characters that they remembered from the past. They're really trying to, like, marvel this up a little bit. I don't think it's gonna be like a $300 million movie or anything, but I think it's gonna do pretty well. And I think it's gonna do better than the Running man, which I would not have guessed that nine months ago. And I don't know. That's part of why I brought up this discussion about the juiceless fall. I was like, yeah, Predator Badlands is going to be okay. Those movies are not going to be a problem. Listen, now you see me is not going to be a problem. They got grandfathered in.
- [76:50]
Amanda Davins
I was literally about to say, ip, that's grandfathered in is fine. And it's everything else.
- [76:55]
Van Lathan
Damn.
- [76:56]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, it's a tough way to go out. Any closing thoughts that are more spirited and emotional?
- [77:03]
Amanda Davins
I. Like I said, I thought that the new generation was pretty good or fine. And it seems like maybe they're setting us up, you know?
- [77:12]
Sean Fennessey
Would you watch five more? Now you see, me films, you know.
- [77:15]
Amanda Davins
They go to some interesting cities that I've never been to in this. I was like, oh, is that what Antwerp looks like? I guess it does. You know.
- [77:24]
Sean Fennessey
What did you think about the Vanity Fair photographer?
- [77:29]
Amanda Davins
I was like, yeah, that would be lovely if anybody working in editorial were paid for that level of hotel and flight.
- [77:38]
Sean Fennessey
You're saying it's not like that anymore?
- [77:39]
Amanda Davins
Well, I guess this is a private commission, you know, so your outside rates could be higher, but. Yeah. No.
- [77:48]
Sean Fennessey
Does Vanity Fair have staff photographers in 2025?
- [77:53]
Amanda Davins
I don't know what's going on over there anymore.
- [77:55]
Sean Fennessey
Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna guess. No. Well, that just about does it for us.
- [78:00]
Amanda Davins
Yeah.
- [78:01]
Sean Fennessey
Now you see me. Now you don't soft recommend.
- [78:06]
Amanda Davins
I don't know if you're there already.
- [78:08]
Sean Fennessey
Where already?
- [78:08]
Amanda Davins
Like near a movie in Antwerp or. In Antwerp.
- [78:13]
Sean Fennessey
Okay, let's go to my conversation with Edgar Wright. Edgar Wright back on the show. First time in person.
- [78:22]
Edgar Wright
I know. It's nice to be here. You're real.
- [78:24]
Sean Fennessey
I'm real. And so are you. I knew you were. I wanted to start with this, so I didn't realize this until looking at your filmography last night. Prepping. But since Hot Fuzz, you've gone English film. Hollywood film. English film. Hollywood film. English film. How do you see yourself now? As somebody. Do you see yourself as an English filmmaker? Do you see yourself as a Hollywood studio director?
- [78:48]
Edgar Wright
I don't know. It's a good question. I mean, it's funny when people ask you sort of filmography questions. Cause I think. I think I. Maybe it's like Brian De Palma said once that, like, you know, most directors don't. Can't. They can't curate their own filmography. You know, you're not necessarily. I mean, probably. I think, you know, somebody like Chris Nolan can probably do whatever he wants to do, like, in whatever order, but most sort of, you know, directors are sort of, like, doing the film that they can get made, so there's no chance to really get any sort of, like, macro, like, you know, like, view of everything. So. Yeah, and it's also. I mean, the irony is, as well, as you probably know, we're in Los Angeles right now. In Los Angeles is there's a sort of drought of production here in the sense of the. Not many films get made in Hollywood anymore, which is, you know, maybe like 20 years ago when I'm made Shaun of the Dead. And like, you know, you come to Hollywood to have a Hollywood career, but now that's all in inverted commas because Hollywood films get made all over the world. And, you know, the irony. Why did. Why did filmmaking come to Los Angeles in the first place? Tell me the weather. Yeah, right. So. Because it started in New Jersey, right? And they were like, hey, we should go to California. It's sunny all year round. Then, of course, now it's like, hey, let's go and make something in London or Eastern Europe. The weather is, like, terrible for, like, half of the year, but it's cheaper.
- [80:15]
Sean Fennessey
But I feel like there's so many productions in Ireland now. There was, like, three times as many productions in Ireland as there were 20 years ago. Obviously, part of the reason for that is, you know, the tax incentives and all those things. But you're closer now to sort of the center of studio filmmaking being in Europe than when you're living here.
- [80:34]
Edgar Wright
Yeah, no, totally. So it's a strange one, I think, probably for actors and filmmakers, you know, you don't have to come to Hollywood anymore to have a Hollywood career, whatever that means. I don't know. I mean, that said, I just want to say on record, I'd love to make a Film in Los Angeles.
- [80:53]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. I think we've seen one battle after another. Like, it is good to shoot in California sometimes. There is upside there.
- [80:59]
Edgar Wright
And Eureka, California as well.
- [81:01]
Sean Fennessey
Exactly. It doesn't have to be Los Angeles. So your filmography I also think of as often in conversation with the genres that the films are working in. Right. Sometimes in response, sometimes, you know, sort of like warmly satirical or admiring of something. The Running Man. Do you see that in the same way that you see Hot Fuzz or Baby Driver or movies where you're like, I see Edgar working in a tradition. Is the Running man to you, your action film? How do you think about it?
- [81:30]
Edgar Wright
I guess. I mean, I guess I think about it as an adaptation of a book I read when I was a teenager. And in a weird way, I mean, the thing. It's funny, like, because the book is sort of, you know, famously sort of fiery and gritty and intense, but also, like, very satiric and also incredibly prescient in terms of its satire. So I think if there is a sort of satirical streak in the movie, I mean, that's present in the book as well. And that's the thing that's exciting to kind of like, sort of like, you know, like, you know, grab it between your teeth, you know. So I think when you're making. When I'm making a movie, I don't really think about the sort of. The different percentages of, like, myself or the, like, original novel. You're just trying to make a good movie. And, you know, those things I can't. Like, kind of like, it just comes out organically in a way. I don't really think about it too much. I don't know.
- [82:27]
Sean Fennessey
And you tweeted in 2017 that you wanted to make this movie. Was that. Were you trying to will it into the world? What happened?
- [82:32]
Edgar Wright
Well, I think it, you know, it's a question that would come up. It's one of those questions that kind of. You get in junkets or, like, on websites, say, if you could remake any movie, which movie would you remake? And I think maybe I was answering a fan question there. So it's not the first time I'd said it, but actually, the reason that I said it is because not because I had a desire to remake the 1987 film, but because I had read the Stephen King Richard Backman book when I was a teenager, before I'd seen the 1987 Arnold Schwarzenegger film, I was well aware that they hadn't really adapted the book at all. Like, if you've read the book and you've seen the Arnold Schwarzenegger version. It's extremely loose adaptation. And it's only really. Maybe some of the stuff on the game show itself is the only thing that's even vaguely similar. I don't.
- [83:24]
Sean Fennessey
He. Does he even have a family in the film? None of that stuff is in the original film, right?
- [83:29]
Edgar Wright
No. And. And so I. It was more the case of. Not necessarily, you know, my. My favorite remakes. And again, I don't really think of this as a remake. It's more like a new adaptation of the same source material. But my favorite remakes kind of, you know, take the ball and run with it. Like, I mean, the perfect example is like, David Cronenberg's the Fly, which is like, wildly different from the 50s one. And yet both are entertaining, and I love both films for what they are. In this case, it was something where I felt like, oh, there's actually like a Stephen King book that hasn't actually been adapted for the screen at all. You know, so I. Yeah, so I did. I did say that. And actually, even before that, I actually had looked into the rights once before, maybe about 15 years ago after Scott Pilgrim. I was so curious, and it was complicated, and they were unavailable. And then about four years ago, one of the producers, Simon Kingberg, emailed me and said, is it true that you have an interest in adapting the Running Man? And I was like, yes. He said, well, we have the rights. We should talk. And I said, yes, we should. It was sort of like, it never happens like that. It never happens that something you actually want to do appears in your inbox. So that's very rare. It's never. I mean, it's never happened before. Maybe never happened again. I don't know.
- [84:46]
Sean Fennessey
Let's talk a little bit about the book and adapting it. So as you said, it's fiery. It's a pretty brutal book, even by King standards. It's very intense, very violent, and it is prescient, as you said. And it is set in 2025.
- [84:57]
Edgar Wright
Yeah, I only found out the other day. This is like gonna start. Sound like name dropping, talking to Stephen. But we were doing an interview together, but I didn't actually realize that it was written in 1970. It was written in 72. And he said he sent it to a publisher who said, we don't do dystopian fiction. And so it just sat on the shelf. And he started releasing the books under Richard Backman because he wanted to bring out more than one book a year. And his Publisher said, you shouldn't do that. So he said, okay, I'm going to release these other works that are non horror under like a different name. And as you probably know, like Richard Beckman, he always said, is like his Richard Stark to Donald Westlake. Donald Westlake used to write under Richard Stark when he was in a bad mood. There's that great quote where Donald Westlake said, if I wake up and it's sunny, I write as Donald Westlake. If I wake up and it's cloudy, I'll write as Richard Stark. So yeah, so there's definitely the sort of. The Backman books are in the Richard Stark mode. So yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing is that I probably started reading Stephen King books when I was like 12 or 13.
- [86:03]
Sean Fennessey
I did as well. It is a life changing kind of thing when you start reading those books.
- [86:06]
Edgar Wright
Well, I think the thing that's interesting about them, and the Running man is no exception, is I started reading them. They're probably like the first kind of adult books that I read as a sort of gateway into kind of like grown up fiction. And obviously because it's like fantasy, sci fi, horror elements, but then the reality is the really eye opening stuff is the real life and the sort of the grittiness of them. And I think obviously what Stephen King is amazing at is the sort of the world building, all of the world building that happens before the, you know, the genre element starts. And the Running man is no exception. It's exceptionally well drawn. And even though it's a much leaner novel, the Richard Beckman books are generally pretty sort of like sharp and short. That it has an enormous amount of world building. And that's something that just really stayed with me, you know, and the other thing that really stayed with me and the other thing I really wanted to do in this film is tell it all from Ben Richards point of view so that you stay with him the entire time. Because often in films of this ilk, even the dystopian, the micro genre of dystopian game show like TV shows and films, there'll be this tendency to like, oh, let's cut back to the studio, let's see what the baddies are up to. And even actually when we were working on the script, you know, after maybe the first or second draft, we get some notes from the studio saying what about if we went back to the network building and saw what Cillian's up to? Or what about if we checked in with Sheila and Kathy and we were like no, we think it's really good if you stay with Ben.
- [87:41]
Sean Fennessey
So why, though? Why was it important to do that? Just single perspective on the film, I think.
- [87:45]
Edgar Wright
So you just feel like you're on the show with him, you live vicariously through him. And I just think it makes it more exciting and intense that you don't have any information that he doesn't like. You don't see what's around the corner. And also, all he knows about the world is through the free V. And what's on the freebie is not necessarily the truth. So, you know, he's on the back foot the entire time. I just thought it would make it, like, more exciting and intense to stay with him, you know?
- [88:19]
Sean Fennessey
Were there things that were not in the book that you felt that the a film in 2025 would need?
- [88:25]
Edgar Wright
I guess it was just more about expanding some of the sort of scenes in the book a little bit. Like. So, yeah, I mean, I think it was trying to sort of. I mean, that's a good question. But I think the other thing that is a big part of the book that's not in the 1987 film is that the kind of the playground is the world. Like, it's like hide and seek on a national, even global level. I mean, there's no rules to say that they can't leave the country, although you would assume it would be kind of difficult to, you know, get around with, even with fake id. So there was always. And it's funny, when I was a teenager and I enjoy the original movie, but when I was a teenager, I was. And I watched it, I was. I was sort of disappointed that the area of play was more contained. It's mostly in that sort of subterranean, subterranean arena.
- [89:14]
Sean Fennessey
It's almost like an abandoned hellscape. I feel like.
- [89:16]
Edgar Wright
I think it's probably right around the corner from where we're like, where we're recording this right now. Pretty sure it's in downtown LA under the LA freeway. Right.
- [89:23]
Sean Fennessey
I think you're right. But your movie is very different. It is in an extremely populous world, at least for the first half of the film, is like we are in contemporary city life.
- [89:32]
Edgar Wright
Yeah, well, that was what's funny. So when I saw. When I saw the 1987 film, and I was a little disheartened that it was on a smaller scale, at least the action. Now, having made the movie and shot in 165 different locations, I'd like to say to the makers of the 1987 film, I understand the practical decision. It was a sensible decision. And you probably got more sleep than I did.
- [89:58]
Sean Fennessey
We've been talking on the show recently about how there are a lot of movies right now, One Battle, Eddington, Begonia, that are all kind of about the idea that we're being controlled and the way that the media and politicians and the nation state just kind of tries to lull people into a sense of relaxation so that they don't really work against what's really happening around them. That is the absolute core theme of this story and this film. And I'm just kind of curious, like, why that appealed to you and maybe just the timing of it arriving right now.
- [90:33]
Edgar Wright
I mean, a lot of the timing is just coincidental. You know, it's even funny. Before I saw One Battle After Another, I was sort of following like, sort of the. On Instagram. PTAs. Not on Instagram, obviously. He's too cool for that. But like Mike DeLuca, you know, the head of Warner Brothers, and I noticed every time he was posting about One Battle after another, he was using the Gail Scott Heron song, the Revolution Will Not Be Televised. And eventually I, like, emailed him and said, hey, I haven't seen the film yet, but is that song in the movie? He goes, oh, yeah, it's on the end credits and it's kind of referenced as a motif throughout. I said, ah, it's in our film as well. And then when I saw One Battle After Another, I felt better about it. I was thinking, oh, it's actually the second song in the movie, the end credits, and in ours, it's like an orchestral sort of COVID So it's not the same thing. But I was thinking, well, if there was any year, any calendar year where that song was going to show up twice, it's 2025. But as you know, like the Richard. Well, you know about the book when it was set. Right.
- [91:34]
Sean Fennessey
Well, tell me.
- [91:35]
Edgar Wright
Well, so the Stephen King book, and again written in 1972, even before it was published as Richard Beckman, is set in 2025.
- [91:44]
Sean Fennessey
Yes, of course, yes.
- [91:45]
Edgar Wright
And the 1980. The COVID of the. The first Richard beckman paperback from 1982, the logline on the COVID says, welcome to the year 2025, where the best men don't run for president, they run for their lives. The running man, Richard Beckman. Now, the thing is, is that when we started working on this. So the email from Simon Kinberg was like, in late 2021. And me and Michael Bacall started working on it in early 22. And then there were a Couple of drafts that Michael did. And then there was the production strike in 2023, and then early last year. And this is something that a studio has never done. Cause usually when you're making a movie, and I want to say this, not to say that making this movie was easy, but usually you're pushing a project uphill and you're trying to get it made. And then there was a very rare thing that happened, was in early 24, I was sort of working on this other film as a sort of interim thing. Cause the Running man was so big, I thought, well, maybe I should do this smaller film first. And then during the production, the actor and writer strike, it completely fell apart. And Mike Ireland, who was then the president of Paramount Pictures, called me and said, why aren't we making the Running man right now? And he said, you could be in production by the end of the year, and we could have it out in cinemas at the end of 2025. And I was like, yeah, no, that sounds great. So it was a weird thing. Like, usually, like, you're kind of, like, sort of trying to sort of usually. And again, not to say it was easy, but usually, like, willing something into existence. But in this case, somebody actually, like, fired the starting gun. So now, to be sitting here with you, like, in the last six weeks of 2025 with a finished movie that I only finished a couple of weeks ago is wild to me. In the year in which Stephen King set the movie. And also, I asked him the other day, I said, why did you pick 2025 out of interest? He goes, it just sounded like a cool number. And it was far. It was far away enough. Like, he didn't think that Ness.
- [93:48]
Sean Fennessey
He was.
- [93:50]
Edgar Wright
Well, also, it's that thing. It's like, we don't say what year it is in the film. And the reason we don't say what year it is in the film is I think most science fiction films don't go far enough. Like, as a fan, like, 2001 A Space Odyssey, one of my favorite films. I wish we were living in that 2001. 24 years later, we're nowhere near Kubrick's 2001 escape from New York, the John Carpenter film. The start of it says the year is 1997. It's like, no, go further, guys. So I always think most films, I mean, Blade Runner, I guess the sequel, they kind of went far enough. But most of them, they don't go far enough. So it's thinking. And let's just not say the year at all, okay?
- [94:32]
Sean Fennessey
That's smart. That makes sense. So was the fact that you basically made this movie in one year. In what ways did it help the movie? Because that's unusual to have to. That breakneck pace is really strange, especially for a movie of this scale.
- [94:47]
Edgar Wright
No, it's like my biggest and most complicated movie. I mean, I'll say this as I couldn't have done it without working with a lot of regular collaborators. That was. I mean, and. And, you know, like, all movies that I've done, we kind of, like, prep the shit out of it and just, you know, you want to kind of go in with, like, sort of, like a really good plan, even if obviously, you know, there's always something that kind of throws a spanner in the works and you have to kind of, like, pivot, but, like, you've got a really solid plan. And we prepped really as much as we could, but also the prep was kind of shorter than actually previous movies. Like, usually you do have, like, three months prep with a whole crew. We had two. I mean, I can't quite believe that we put off as well, but I think really, like, the key to it is that there are a lot of regular collaborators and people I've worked with before, some new people that I. On the crew that I'd not worked with before, like the costume designer, Julian Day, and the stunt coordinator, Nikki Barrick, but most of the people I'd worked with on other films. And that was obviously not to say that I couldn't have done it with all new people, but. But enormously helped to have a shorthand with regular collaborators. And so, you know, it's a film with a lot of moving parts. We didn't finish filming until the end of March, so we didn't start editing until the start of April. And, you know, it's got lots of effects in it.
- [96:12]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah, I have some questions about that.
- [96:14]
Edgar Wright
I mean, I don't. I mean, ask me.
- [96:17]
Sean Fennessey
Well, you know, I think that visual effects are in a complicated place in movies in general. I think a surprising number of movies, just from my untrained eye, have weak visual effects. Your movies historically have very good visual effects. And I know that you try to do as much in camera as you possibly can, but also in all your films, I find that the visual effects work is really good, but the idea of finishing filming in March and then having good visual effects seems a little scary.
- [96:42]
Edgar Wright
Well, I think.
- [96:42]
Sean Fennessey
How do you do it? I guess, is my question.
- [96:44]
Edgar Wright
I think in. Is the idea is. And why. If you notice, in some films, we Won't mention the names. But like, if you notice in some films that like, they've got like wildly variable special effects, it's usually because they're like changing it right up until the Wire. And there obviously been lots of stories like exposes in the VFX community complaining about this, that people are like working stupid hours at the 11th hour to sort of change a whole climax to include some other. I feel like I'm so.
- [97:14]
Sean Fennessey
I think we know what you're saying.
- [97:16]
Edgar Wright
I feel like I'm subtweeting now. I'm not gonna say the word. But with this, because we had this kind of schedule, it's like Andrew Whitehurst. It's actually my first time working with Industrial Light and Magic. But the supervisor, Andrew Whitehurst worked on Scott Pilgrim. So when his name came up and in fact the reason I went to talking about special effects, one of the films in the last couple of years, I was really impressed by the effects work, was the creator and Gareth Edwards is a friend of mine. And so I actually picked his brains and said how. Talk me through how that worked. And we sort of employed a similar thing with the location work is like shoot on real locations and do like production design for the ground floor. And then as it goes higher, then you can go into your amazing kind of like VFX Escher world. Okay, so that was the idea is always shoot on location. In fact, the location manager, Eugene Strange, another person working with for the first time who's like Jonathan Glazer's guy, an amazing location manager. Literally the first we did on the movie is me and him and Marcus Roland, the production designer, just like walked around the cities that we were looking at to find the, you know, not just the brutalist stuff that would work for the sort of downtown areas, but all of the new kind of high rise stuff of the, you know, the uptown, more sort of advanced areas. And so you, you know, and obviously this. This is something that goes back to so many great movies and great dystopian movies use kind of existing architecture. You know, THX 1138 is a great example of that. Also probably shot just around the corner as well. You know, the one actually that I rewatched. And I actually now like re watching these dystopian sci fi films. I was usually looking at it on a practical level and. And things that I didn't notice as a kid or I didn't really look into like how they were made or there wasn't the Internet. Then I was watching Rollerball and when I was Watching that, I was thinking, where are these locations? Where is this shot? And it's like, ah, this is Germany. Like Germany.
- [99:16]
Sean Fennessey
Germany looks like Europe. Yes.
- [99:17]
Edgar Wright
Yeah, it's like. But it's Germany. But it's like they shot kind of like, I think Houston and Los Angeles in like sort of brutalist Munich. I think it's Munich. It was definitely in Germany or like Brazil. Like a movie that I love. And I knew that there were London locations in it and sets, but there's also like some shooting in France. Some of those. Like when Jonathan Pryce goes to visit those apartment blocks, those are not sets. That's like. That is a sort of mid century apartment block in France. So with all those things in mind of looking at ways to kind of like use existing architecture and then expand it.
- [99:54]
Sean Fennessey
So.
- [99:54]
Edgar Wright
So, you know. So yeah, so I talked to Gareth Edwards about the creator and I was just like sort of wanted to sort of pick his brains. And that was exactly what they did on that film is use existing locations and then kind of expand on it.
- [100:07]
Sean Fennessey
You know, I think you've always had a great knack for action choreography, but this is on a significantly different level.
- [100:14]
Edgar Wright
Oh, thank you.
- [100:15]
Sean Fennessey
Really amazing. I was hoping maybe you could talk me through designing a sequence. So like the Boston sequence in particular, I think is unbelievable.
- [100:24]
Edgar Wright
Oh, with the car.
- [100:26]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. Well, and the VA hotel and all that. All that stuff is.
- [100:30]
Edgar Wright
You can see me getting exhausted. As soon as you mentioned it, I got a ptsd.
- [100:35]
Sean Fennessey
As soon as you mentioned it, it's literally like. I don't know how they did that situation alone.
- [100:39]
Edgar Wright
Moving parts.
- [100:40]
Sean Fennessey
So can you talk maybe about design and then design versus execution, like when you think something is going to be and then how achievable it is when you're confronted with the physical production.
- [100:48]
Edgar Wright
I think that sequence in particular, the kind of like the sequence in the yva, in the sort of halfway house that he's in, there's so many elements to it, like. Cause there's like sets. There's like his bedroom, there's the hallway, there's the second floor, there's an elevator. Then there's like a roof set. Then there's like a real exterior set. And we shot some. We shot in London and we shot a bit in Glasgow. And then at the end of the shoot, we shot in Bulgaria. And in Bulgaria they have a lot of like exterior sets. Standing one of them actually. I'm gonna dive. There's one bit where he walks into kind of like a. Like sort of mansions, like a sort of unfinished houses. It was literally like an advert set that was just standing there in the middle of a field and volcano said, we should use this, we should make this the location. Right. But in the case of the YVA sequence, it was, in terms of designing it, one of the things. This goes back to the adaptation that was like a. A through line that helped you kind of like focus. Everything is like it has to revolve around Ben Richards, so you have to be kind of with him the entire time. So it kind of helps focus how the stunts are going to work, how the cinematography is going to work. What Glenn can do. Glenn, you know, is like so gung ho. He wants to be. He'll do any stunt that he can do and safely. So, you know, myself and Nikki Berrick, the stunt coordinator, are sort of designing it around that and thinking about how can we utilize our main actor as much as possible and have him front and center, you know, and he's not in a mask in the movie. And you know, obviously we have amazing stunt doubles as well, but he's doing a lot of his own stunts, as you can probably see in the film. So I think that's it. It's just sort of design and prep in terms of like starting with storyboards, then maybe animatics with the storyboards. Then, you know, you can draw stuff, but then you still have to sort of do it with bodies in motion.
- [102:53]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah.
- [102:54]
Edgar Wright
So you don't really do like CG previs that much. I don't really like that. But like doing stuff with like a video camera and the stunt team so they can like literally like run through it and see how it works with people actually doing it it and then. And then you shoot it. So it's like an. It's an amalgam of these things and you're just kind of, you know, just. I mean, there's no version of it on an action film with like sort of special effects. When I say special effects, I mean physical effects where you're coming onto the set and winging it, like sort of. You sort of have to kind of like work out what you're doing. And you know, because of the schedule constantly, there would be things where we'd be shooting like that YVA scene, but there'd always be like a meeting for an hour before call and afterwards. And there's some sequences I get kind of like just the hives thinking about like the an. You know, I think it's a good thing to go to work with some kind of low level anxiety is probably a Good thing. Cause I think the day that you go to work, very complacent and say, ah, yeah, we got this. It's probably the day that you should quit being a director. But when I think about the basement scene in the yva, my main thought of it is that every day would be like, hey, Edgar, we've gotta go and meet at the basement at 7 o' clock in the morning to talk through how the fire effects are gonna work. And so like, you know, to actually see like the finished kind of like scene all seamlessly coming together, hopefully seamlessly. I'm putting. Not trying to put words in your mouth.
- [104:28]
Sean Fennessey
No, it is.
- [104:29]
Edgar Wright
But seeing it all together, like with so many different moving parts, it's such a rush. Cause you know, like, the amount of work that goes into it is enormous, you know.
- [104:40]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. I kicked this to Joseph Kaczynski earlier this year because we were talking about F1. But some years ago I did a piece about Michael Bay and I talked to James Cameron for the piece and James Cameron said, Michael Bay is an incredible filmmaker. Because the big train set is the hardest thing to do as a kinetic filmmaker. Somebody who's trying to make maybe not action movies, but movies like that he's at. Bay is amazing at the train set. And the train set seems really stressful. Like anytime you're trying to do when, you know you have like a centerpiece in your film and you want people to walk out of the movie and be like, God, that part was incredible. But you said low level anxiety is a good thing in doing those.
- [105:16]
Edgar Wright
I say low level, sometimes high level anxiety. I mean, I think, I think. Listen, I gotta say, as well on record, Cause I don't want anybody out there to say, oh, bitching and moaning about making a movie. These are champagne problems to have. I'm very, very grateful. Grateful to be working number one. But it is a, it is a, it is a thing when you're making a movie is that you, you. They would say you gotta go into like a movie scared of something. And this, I think, had like several set pieces where you gotta figure out how to do it. And like, even on a. You know, like, we had a good schedule. But it's always the sort of. The ambition of the movie is. Is. Is more than the time and the money you have. So then you're just really having to be like super focused about. There's no like fat. It's like the way it's designed. I mean, actually, you know, because we've been doing this sort of Blu Ray Stuff at the same time. And, like, there's some deleted scenes, but there's like. Like everything's in there.
- [106:10]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah.
- [106:11]
Edgar Wright
You know, and likes. And we didn't kind of shoot any extra stuff. Do you know what I mean? And it's also something. I think the way that you shoot is, you know, it's kind of what the sort of the old Hong Kong method of, like, you're. You're. You're shooting the piece that you're shooting of. The action is the only angle for that piece. It's not like you're shooting a master wide and then the midshot and then the close up. You kind of like designing it piece by piece by piece, which is both, you know, in some ways more complicated. In some ways it makes it kind of easier because you're only shooting something once. But then also it kind of has to work and it has to edit together as well. So it's both like, sort of simpler and. And potentially more risky at the same time. So this is stupid question. Like, talking about it is giving me the highest.
- [107:00]
Sean Fennessey
Sean, but. So how do you know it's gonna cut together? Is it. Is it? Well, that's something that most people don't think about. But if it doesn't work, the whole thing goes like this.
- [107:11]
Edgar Wright
Paul Matchless, my amazing editor, who I've worked with since Spaced, you know, like the TV show I did before Shaun the Dead, since probably we started doing on Scott Pilgrim. But then from sort of the World's End onwards, and particularly on Baby Driver last night in Soho. And this we edit on set. And mostly if you have a dialogue scene, you know, that's. You know, as long as you've got it, you've got it. But like, especially with, like, transitions or especially with action stuff is you're editing it together on set just to make sure that it works. And also with a script supervisor so to. Does the continuity work. And so at least you're able to see if there's an issue or something where you need an extra shot to tell the story. You're able to kind of like, you know, like, adapt it and sort of. And modify it. And sometimes that would be something that you do way later. You watch the finished thing. And it's like, it'd be really great if we had like, one more shot of him putting his hand on the gun. And like, you know, like. Like weeks and weeks later, you just get like an insert that kind of like, sort of suddenly makes the whole piece work. And it's an ongoing sort of like Process. But, yeah, that helps. You don't really want to. And it's definitely something that I think has been a real benefit to do that throughout the shoot. And also I think probably a way, in answer to your question, of how you can finish the movie. And the effect is that you're getting ahead of yourself. And, you know, again, because it's, like, designed in such a way of like, okay, this shot of Glenn running down the hallway away from the camera and away from the bullets and sliding into the elevator, there is only one. This is our favorite take, and this is it. So because you've sort of done that through production, you can then hand that over to the VFX people and say.
- [108:59]
Sean Fennessey
This is the shot so he's on set with you. Then when you guys are editing it together.
- [109:02]
Edgar Wright
Okay.
- [109:03]
Sean Fennessey
And that's unusual. I mean, we hear these stories about Soderbergh, like, cutting the movie in real time while he's moving. But how often is an editor on set during film production?
- [109:10]
Edgar Wright
Well, I always used to be against the idea, like, initially. But then it was when we were doing Scott Pilgrim because we had to sort of edit together the action to make sure that it worked. And it just was incredibly useful. And it just. It really just. It's also a wild thing for some actors. Like, when we were shooting the scene with, like, Glenn and Michael Ceramic, you know, you could say at the end of the day, say, hey, do you want to see what we've done today? And kind of show them the sequence with the song that's in the finished movie.
- [109:42]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah.
- [109:42]
Edgar Wright
And they could sit back and go, oh, wow. Sort of like, oh, this is it. Like, this is. This is not just what we did today, but, like, here it is. You know, obviously, you keep. Not to say that you don't keep working on it and finessing it, but. But it's. It is. It has. Especially for something like this and especially for action or anything with choreography. It's a similar thing with music stuff. Like, obviously in Baby Driver and last night in soho, there's so much music, choreography. And if you're. You know, it's. You're going between setups, you need to make sure that kind of things are on beat or on step or like, that. It works within the kind of the piece, but it's the same with action. And it's a really. It's a really great resource to kind of just keep sort of like, working on it as you're doing it and seeing what things work and seeing where there's a problem or Seeing where you need an extra bit of storytelling.
- [110:30]
Sean Fennessey
You know, I'm curious to hear you talk about Glenn. We've been rooting for Glen on this show since it started, and it's been kind of fascinating to watch it happen. You know, like, he is becoming the thing that I know he wants to be, and that is rare now. There's not a lot of leading men under 40 who can carry a movie, who can do a lot of different kinds of parts, who can do a lot of different tones inside of one movie. Why was he bent for this film?
- [110:58]
Edgar Wright
Oh, I mean, I feel so lucky that it was, like, the right guy at the right time, because I was a fan as well. And, like, you know, first through the Richard link, later films, and then obviously kind of like, Top Gun was huge for him. But it was actually like, we'd already been working on the script, and as it, like, I got that call from Mike island about, like, why aren't we making this movie right now? It was just like, as Glen was kind of like, really starting to pop and. And so when his name was in the mix, as they say, you know, with a big budget film like this, it's something like, you might have ideas of who you want to be in it, but also the studio would definitely have a list of, like, who they would greenlight the movie with. And I was given that list of saying, hey, these are the kind of people we would consider in this role. And Glenn was on that list. And that made me very excited and happy because I knew him a little bit and I was a real fan of him. Hitman had been out, and I had seen it at the London Film Festival. And there's a funny thing. This is before his name was in contention for my film to play. Ben Richards is. I had seen Hitman at the London Film Festival, and it was during the SAG strike. So he wasn't there. Like, it was that festival period where no actors were promoting their movies. Richard Linklater was there, but Glenn was not there. And because I knew him, I took it. I was at the screening, and you're sitting there and there's the big graphic that says, you know, London Film Festival gala, Hitman. And I took a photo of it and I sent it to him, and he was in. You know, he was back in, like, Austin. And he said. He goes, oh, man. He goes, I wish I could be there tonight. And then he sent a second text. He said, consider this my audition tape. That was the text. Now, later, later, when his name was in, like, sort of like in the mix. Both me and Michael Bacall were just like, he's the guy. And the reason that he's the guy is the only person on the list who hadn't already played a superhero or a trained killer. He's playing a fake hitman in Hitman.
- [112:59]
Sean Fennessey
That's true.
- [113:00]
Edgar Wright
And it's a thing, I think, where it's a difficult thing in an action movie, where you need to believe in this movie that Ben Richards is a guy off the street. He's an out of work dad, he works in construction. So it's not like he's not tough or he has a thick hide, but he's not a. He's not a cop like in the 1987 movie, or military policeman in that or he's not a trained killer. He's not an amnesiac who has special like, sort of like fighting skills.
- [113:30]
Sean Fennessey
No Bourne situation.
- [113:32]
Edgar Wright
Krav Maga. That's the word I was looking for. It was just in my head, like, what's the name of the fighting style?
- [113:38]
Van Lathan
Krav Mag.
- [113:39]
Edgar Wright
He doesn't know Krav Maga. He's not a superhero. And the thing is, is that most people on that, on that list, the other names are all people who had done all of those movies. They say, well, I've seen them do this movie. I haven't seen Glenn do this movie. And it made me think about even in Top Gun, Maverick, it's like it's action film, but it's not the same kind of thing. And you know, you think back to the first Die Hard, when that came, before that came out, Bruce Willis is the guy from Moonlighting. And I'm sure probably at the time there was probably some kind of like raised eyebrows about the guy from Moonlighting.
- [114:09]
Sean Fennessey
In an action film. Oh, I think there was for sure, yeah.
- [114:11]
Edgar Wright
Going up against Stallone and Schwarzenegger is like the Moonlighting guy. And then of course, after that film, he's Bruce Willis, you know, the action star. The same, I think, with like actually Matt Damon before he did the Bourne Identity. So those things were sort of like thinking about that. And you know, so I just, when Glenn's name was, was I, we just, we, you know, we said to Paramo, said, we love the idea of Glenn. Glenn would be perfect for this. And they said, and Mike island and the people in Paris said, we love Glenn, you know, so. And then this is another thing. This is a set, the second text from Glenn Powell. Usually in this situation, when people are in sort of contention for something, you never hear from them, because they're not going to, you know, sort of embarrass themselves to get in touch. You might hear from the agent. But I remember being in my, like, sort of, like, house where me and Michael Bacall were writing, and I remember getting a text from Glenn. He said, hey, I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I heard my name might be in the mix for the Running man. And if it is, I just want to say to you, I would like do everything to work on this movie, and you'll never work with an actor who works harder than me. I promise you that.
- [115:24]
Van Lathan
That.
- [115:24]
Edgar Wright
And, you know, he was true to his word. It was sort of an amazing text to get. And it was like, sort of like I said, and I was like, you know, you had me at hello, Glenn. You already, you already have the part, ironically. What's funny? And I didn't know this, I, I. So we basically gave him the part, and then somebody from the studio said, oh, you know, Stephen King has cast approval on some of the main parts. Oh, I, I didn't know that. And so I talked to Stephen about it and, and I said, you should watch Hitman. So Hitman wasn't out yet, so I got him a link to watch Hitman. And then he watched Hitman. He goes, oh, yeah, great. Fantastic.
- [115:59]
Sean Fennessey
Yeah. There's a surprising amount of disguise work and costuming, and there is, like, a little echo of Hitman, at least in the first half of your film, too.
- [116:07]
Edgar Wright
I know. It's funny that through multiple movies, Glenn, it's almost like he's like the new Peter Sellers is.
- [116:14]
Sean Fennessey
What do you think that is? Why does he like that?
- [116:17]
Edgar Wright
I mean, that was already, as a coincidence, it was already in the script and it's in, you know, like, the book as well. Yeah, that, like, he, he has, like, different kind of like, disguises. I mean, the thing that is funny about it, and maybe in a similar way to Hitman, because what, what's fun about Hitman is that that first moment where you see him very quickly have to. But he suddenly becomes like a, Like a movie star in that first scene.
- [116:41]
Sean Fennessey
Yes.
- [116:42]
Edgar Wright
What we liked in this is, like, a couple of incidents. Incidents where you feel like he's trying out the accent for the first time.
- [116:50]
Sean Fennessey
Yes. He's not good at it.
- [116:51]
Edgar Wright
Well, yeah, it's like. Or he's, it's like when you, you know, sometimes if you try and do an impression of a celebrity and you've never actually done it out loud before, and so we all Thought like that when he's like playing like a businessman as the train station, he's sort of doing his kind of uptown voice and it sort of comes out this kind of strangulated, weird like non Glenn voice. And then also like he does an Irish accent later. And I think I said you've got to do it like you're doing an Irish accent out loud for the first time.
- [117:17]
Sean Fennessey
It does sound like that too. It was nice to see you and Michael reunited as well.
- [117:21]
Edgar Wright
Ah, what a joy.
- [117:23]
Sean Fennessey
That sequence is also quite crazy. Yes. And seems like again, how much I don't. Is all of that in the book? Like when you're thinking about adapting something like that?
- [117:35]
Edgar Wright
Not quite. It's similar but the action is different. And also I don't want to ruin anything because of the like, you know, who, you know who the liability is is not quite the same. It was something that's a little bit different from the book, but the mother is in the book and. Yeah. So it's kind of sort of similar but not quite the same. No.
- [117:57]
Sean Fennessey
What is your favorite aspect of filmmaking at this point?
- [118:02]
Edgar Wright
I think the thing is, is that, you know, filmmaking is really sort of like, like it's really, it's really tough making the movie. So it's very. It's not frequently that you get to enjoy it as you're doing it because it's funny. People say, ask you, they say, oh, you know, when you've done this kind of like shot, you guys look like you're having so much fun. And you think, you think about all the scenes in the films that you did that eventually become maybe people's favorite bit or their funniest bit in the movie. But when you're actually shooting them, you never stand around high fiving each other and patting yourselves on the back. Usually as soon as you've done the shot you go, okay, so now we're going to move the camera over here and then we're going to move the camera over there. So I think probably the part. I wish I enjoyed the process more but that kind of goes more to that thing of like the idea that, you know, having the constant butterflies in your stomach of wanting it to be as good as it is in your head. You know, you want to live up to the film that's in your head. So you're kind of setting the bar for yourself. And usually it's that thing where you talk about the ambition of the film. I can't really blame it on anybody else. You kind of, you've set the Bar yourself so you can't stand there on set on a really tough day and curse the heavens. Cause you say, whose idea was this to make it this complicated? It was my idea and I think on this film as well. Like, even on top of this, it's like you're always trying to live up to the movie that's in your head. Especially if it's a book that you love when you were young and has stayed with you, is like, oh, I've got to, like, I've got to, like, do the best version of this. But so you're living up to the movie that's in your head. But also, in this case, Stephen King also had to sign off on the adaptation. So we sent him the adaptation. I sent it to him very late because we'd actually emailed over the years. But I didn't want to send it to him too early because I didn't want to be like the boy who cried wolf because it would be too heartbreaking to send it to Stephen King and him like it. And then the film fall apart. So I did it as late as I could when I knew it was probably gonna happen. And he loved the adaptation and he was very, very generous in his praise and loved what we kept and loved what we changed.
- [120:10]
Sean Fennessey
Great.
- [120:11]
Edgar Wright
But now it adds a new pressure. It's like, now I have to live up to the film. This is Stephen King's head as well. I have to make it. I have to make the film that he read. So you're kind of putting a lot of pressure on yourself. So it's like, so throughout the shoot, I kind of feel like I have as much fun as I'd like to. But then maybe that's not the point. I actually always remember, like, when I was making Baby Driver, Jon Bernthal said something to me that really stayed with me, is that Jon Bernthal is in that opening sequence, which is a very complicated sequence. And because it was a complicated sequence and there were various issues, we kept having to shoot that sequence throughout the whole movie. And most of the actors were run of show except Jon. So poor Jon Bernthal had to fly back and forth from. From LA to Atlanta about eight times. And on the final day of the shoot, he was actually there on the last day of the shoot. And it was finally wrapping his character. And I said to him, I said, hey, John, I just wanted to apologize to you. I know that you drew the short straw in terms of coming back and forth and obviously a really complicated sequence. I just want to say I really appreciate the fact that you kept coming back and Jon Bentham said, hey, if this shit was easy, every asshole would do it. And I was thinking, words to live by. If this shit was easy, every asshole would do it.
- [121:30]
Sean Fennessey
That sounds just like Jon Bernthal too.
- [121:33]
Edgar Wright
I've never done a Jon Bernthal impression out loud. And I immediately regretted it.
- [121:37]
Sean Fennessey
Well, you didn't quite get his essence, but no one really else could. How's your Blu Ray collection doing? You really. During COVID you were putting some of us collectors to shame the stacks were looking for.
- [121:47]
Edgar Wright
But I have this kind of, like. It makes me feel I sort of have this kind of existential. Existential crisis when I look at them, because I started to think during the pandemic, thinking, I'm never gonna watch all of these before I die.
- [121:58]
Sean Fennessey
Yes, I have that too. But how do we get over that?
- [122:02]
Edgar Wright
Well, you know what I started doing? This is so silly is that I'm a secret letterbox user. I don't have a public account, and I don't rate movies. I just use it to kind of log what I've watched and more. More over, like, make lists of what I want to watch. I started to make a list of, like, first I had a list of everything that's in the house that I haven't watched. And then I started to kind of make it bigger where it's like just everything that I own on physical media. I just have a list of it on letterboxd. And of course, then you have that thing where you think, oh, I can change the ratings. I can figure out what is the highest rated film according to letterboxd users that I have in the house. Then as soon as you see that and say, this is the best film I have in the house that I haven't watched. But, of course, what's the next thing you do? What's the worst film I have? And then, like a fucking contrary bastard, it's like, let's start watching the worst films. So I don't know why I keep doing that, but I have.
- [122:57]
Sean Fennessey
There are so many of you filmmaker, letterboxd lurkers that you're not. You're not showing yourself, but you are present. You're there doing something I learned very.
- [123:06]
Edgar Wright
Early on in my career. And I'm always stunned when I see, like, screenwriters and directors. Directors and actors do. This is like, never bad mouth anybody publicly. There's absolutely nothing to be gained from it. You look like a dick. And, you know, I learned my lesson early on because when we were doing press for Shaun of the Dead. Me and Simon Pegg, in a very good natured way, were sort of taking the piss out of Richard Curtis a little bit because Shaun of the Dead is sort of like a piss taker of rom coms, in a way. And so we made some comment, like, I think we said things like, oh, if you. It's like love actually being shot through the head by George Romero. Or I think I said in some, like, thing. I said, if you ever watched Love actually and thought more people should die. Which is a really dumb thing to say when Bill Nye is in your movie anyway.
- [124:01]
Sean Fennessey
That's funny, though.
- [124:02]
Edgar Wright
We were being cocky. And of course, what happens, you meet Richard Curtis and he's the nicest guy of all time, and you just feel. And I actually apologized to him. Of course, he hadn't even read the quote. He didn't know what I was talking about. But I felt like such a sort of, like, piece of shit. So then from that moment on, he's like, you know, I've got plenty to say about other movies. And I'll talk to you about it over coffee.
- [124:23]
Sean Fennessey
Okay?
- [124:23]
Edgar Wright
But you'll never find me doing it publicly.
- [124:25]
Sean Fennessey
Understood. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen. So if you've been logging on, letterboxd, what are you. What do you. What do you. What have you loved? You know what?
- [124:34]
Edgar Wright
Well, I love one battle after another. But I saw a bunch of things at the London Film Festival which surprised me, given that I was still finishing the movie two weeks ago. I really loved no Other choice the past 10 week film. I actually had read that book. I read the Axe by Donald Westlake, speaking of.
- [124:51]
Sean Fennessey
That's right.
- [124:51]
Edgar Wright
And it's funny when you read that book. I read that book. It's funny. And I thought, this is like the best film the Coen brothers never made. Why has nobody made this as a movie? Then I just go, I've never watched the French version that Costas Gavros made.
- [125:02]
Sean Fennessey
Oh, I don't even know about that.
- [125:03]
Edgar Wright
Yeah. Called the X. And then I loved his version. I also really loved Pillion. Have you seen it?
- [125:13]
Sean Fennessey
You're the second person in a row to recommend it.
- [125:14]
Edgar Wright
It's fantastic.
- [125:15]
Sean Fennessey
I saw it in Telluride and it was amazing, actually. Rian Johnson said. He was like. That was my favorite thing I've seen recently, too. It's so good.
- [125:20]
Edgar Wright
It's so good. Harry Lytton is that. I read somewhere that it's getting cut in the United States, which is like.
- [125:28]
Sean Fennessey
It would be terrible because of. What's the. Because of the content?
- [125:32]
Edgar Wright
Well, yeah, it's explicit sex in it. But like, this.
- [125:34]
Sean Fennessey
There is.
- [125:34]
Edgar Wright
But, yeah, but like, this is what we want, kids.
- [125:37]
Sean Fennessey
It is. It is what we want. But it's. It's such a sweet movie.
- [125:41]
Edgar Wright
Despite that, I find it heartbreaking. There's a. I won't spoil it, but there's a moment towards the end that has kind of like haunted me. I think it really like sort of just like a heartbreaking movie, but funny and just fascinating and like the performance is just like Alexander Skarsgarden. Is it Harry? Mel. Melling.
- [125:59]
Sean Fennessey
Melling.
- [125:59]
Edgar Wright
Melling Melling.
- [126:00]
Sean Fennessey
Of course, yes.
- [126:00]
Edgar Wright
From Harry Potter. Amazing. Leslie Sharp, everybody. Great. I love that movie. I thought it was fantastic.
- [126:06]
Sean Fennessey
Great recommendations. Congrats on the Running Man.
- [126:08]
Edgar Wright
Thank you very much. Nice to see you in person.
- [126:16]
Sean Fennessey
Thank you to Edgar Wright. Thank you to Van Lathan. Thanks for. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. Next week, Amanda and I will dig into two new Richard Linklater films. Neuvel Vogue, which hits Netflix this weekend, and Blue Moon, which is in theaters starring Ethan Hawke. What else are we going to talk about? Anything else?
- [126:39]
Amanda Davins
I haven't thought of it yet.
- [126:40]
Sean Fennessey
Okay.
- [126:40]
Amanda Davins
But you know, maybe we'll just do like a 45 minute teleprompter or tell us straight our breakdown of The Devil Wears Prada 2 trailer.
- [126:48]
Sean Fennessey
That's honestly a good idea.
- [126:49]
Amanda Davins
Honestly. And so just.
- [126:51]
Sean Fennessey
You should prepare for that.
- [126:52]
Amanda Davins
Should we just do like emotional therapy? Check ins with me throughout the five months leading up to Devil wars is.
- [126:57]
Sean Fennessey
Not what this show is on a regular basis.
- [126:59]
Amanda Davins
Yeah, to be honest, we mostly talk about your emotions, but it's fine. We can. Mine are. Mine are ready.
- [127:04]
Sean Fennessey
Mine are ready as well. We'll see you next week.
- [127:14]
Van Lathan
Sam.