The Big Picture – The Movie Business Freak-Out Mailbag & ‘Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery’ With Rian Johnson!

Podcast: The Big Picture (The Ringer)
Air Date: December 16, 2025
Hosts: Sean Fennessey & Amanda Dobbins
Guests: Rian Johnson

Episode Overview

In this episode, Sean and Amanda tackle the turbulence in the movie business, fueled by the news of Netflix’s impending Warner Bros. acquisition, reader anxieties, and a lightning-rod year for Hollywood. They dig through a robust mailbag—addressing Oscars politics, industry panic, movie star relevance, theatrical futures, and more—while paying tribute to the late Rob Reiner. In the second half, director Rian Johnson joins to discuss Wake Up Dead Man: A Knives Out Mystery, the faith and logic underpinning his third Benoit Blanc film, and the personal currents shaping his work, blending hilarious anecdotes with somber reflections about faith, storytelling, and the role of murder mysteries.

In Memoriam: Rob Reiner (00:57–07:46)

• Sean and Amanda open with the tragic murder of Rob Reiner, describing it as “about the worst news you could possibly imagine” (01:23).
• They discuss Reiner’s immense influence on American studio filmmaking—with films like The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, and This Is Spinal Tap being core to their own movie upbringing.
• Sean: "He represents the pinnacle of creativity that makes people happy... something about the experience of seeing the Princess Bride for the first time as a kid." (04:04)
• Amanda highlights his work as both a director and industry supporter, including Castle Rock’s legacy in launching Seinfeld: "He also co-founded Castle Rock, all the movies that he didn’t actually direct but that we love... helping shepherd younger filmmakers." (06:06)
• They encourage listeners to honor Reiner by revisiting his classics.

Mailbag Mania: Freak-Outs, Oscar Debates, Streaming, and More (08:17–46:19)

Netflix's Warner Bros. Acquisition & Oscars Impact (08:24–12:38)

• Listener Q: Will negative reaction to Netflix acquiring Warner Bros. sway Oscar voting against Netflix films?
• Both hosts dismiss the notion, noting award voters care more about friendships, love for movies, and personal connections—rather than making political statements.
• Sean: "When it comes to voting for awards, people vote for their friends. They vote for movies that they love." (11:41)

Theatrical Business in 2026: Blockbuster Anxiety (19:26–24:39)

• Outlook on 2026’s blockbuster slate—Disney, Universal, Sony, Warner, Lionsgate loaded with franchise films: Toy Story, Star Wars, Avengers, Minions, Dune Messiah, The Odyssey (Nolan), and more.
• If these titles disappoint, panic is inevitable.
• Amanda: "If they don’t do well, everyone’s gonna start crying. Everyone’s gonna freak out." (21:19)

Timothée Chalamet's "Athlete Mentality" & Social Media Performance (16:02–19:24)

• Discussion about Chalamet’s cocky press-tour language ("in pursuit of greatness"), and whether it's off-putting or endearing.
• Amanda: "Talk your shit, Timmy. That’s what he’s doing." (17:27)
• Sean sees it as appealing to young people, not tactically Oscar-focused.

Letterboxd’s Streaming Initiative (28:05–31:00)

• Letterboxd launches a “video store” for streaming lesser-known indie films.
• Sean lauds the platform for giving exposure to films lacking distribution: "This is a movie that otherwise you would just not be able to see." (28:57)
• Amanda praises accessibility as the “one upside of the streaming age.”

Oscar Telecast Improvements & Industry Resistance (31:00–36:50)

• Listener asks why Oscar producers don’t listen to viewer advice (funnier presenters, more movie clips, fewer bland songs).
• Sean: "The Academy knows who we are and the producers... do not give [a damn]." (31:45)
• Amanda spots the main issue: “It's not losing viewers because it's bad. It's losing viewers because of YouTube.” (33:23)

Movie Stars: Relevance & Rationale (62:02–67:25)

• A listener asks why maintaining “movie star” status matters.
• Amanda: "Movies are dreams—they have to be manifested in human form. The best way is finding someone you feel your dreams through." (62:02)
• Both emphasize the irreplaceable human connection movie stars provide, contrasted with AI, IP franchises, or influencer culture.

Rapid-Fire Mailbag Highlights (Selected)

• Great performances in mediocre films: Amanda nominates Joaquin Phoenix in Joker ("he's really good, and it’s a performance not just of presence but of movement, but that movie sucks." (59:05)); Sean shouts out Marion Cotillard in La Vie en Rose.
• IMAX re-releases: Both dream of more classics in premium formats—Sean: “The Good, the Bad and the Ugly... just Leone capturing the eyes on the biggest screen possible.” (67:52)
• Physical media must-haves: Essentials like Wizard of Oz (“before they put David Zaslav’s face in it”), Citizen Kane (Criterion 4K), Bogart classics, Kubrick, Nolan, etc. (50:04–52:22)
• Oscars & telecast quirks: The hosts advocate “leaning deeply into people who actually care about movies” (36:50), and joke about revealing real voting tallies (“they’re cowards”).
• Notable recurring bits: Charli XCX’s Letterboxd activity gets its own check-in; Chalamet jacket lust; film drafts and age-related self-deprecation; Anne Hathaway’s 2026 ubiquity.

Wake Up Dead Man: Review & Analysis (70:43–86:24)

Premise & Cast (70:43)

• Third Knives Out mystery; Daniel Craig returns as Benoit Blanc; cast includes Josh O'Connor (Father Judd), Glenn Close, Josh Brolin, Jeremy Renner, Kerry Washington, and more.
• The setup: Benoit Blanc investigates a death within a religious community, entangling faith, secrets, and suspicion.

Thematic Depth, Comedic Touches & Critiques

• Amanda: “I do not care about Catholicism this much... but there’s a really delightful buddy comedy in the middle of this. I like these movies. I like Rian Johnson.” (71:27)
• Sean elaborates on the film’s bold attempt to fuse murder mystery mechanics with meditations on faith and logic:
  "This movie is very specifically interested in that [mystery of faith]... as a mystery, I think the movie is just okay... he’s trying to put big personal ideas into the movies." (74:15)
• Both agree the film’s strong suit is exploring belief and doubt through character dialogue, especially between Father Judd (a boxer-turned-priest) and Blanc.
• Amanda singles out the comedic and heartfelt moments, including an emotional phone confession scene involving Bridget Everett:
  "It's about faith... and is a really beautiful and beautifully acted scene between two people on a phone." (81:05)
• They find some secondary characters overly broad or miscast but value the lead dynamic; question if the faith themes may alienate some viewers.
• Sean: "The mystery stuff is kind of getting in the way of some of that stuff at times." (81:35)

Interview: Rian Johnson on ‘Wake Up Dead Man’ (86:24–121:15)

Crafting a Personal Knives Out

• Johnson admits each film is a reaction to the one before, and that “I need to always feel like I’m a little frightened going into something.” (88:10)
• He identifies the deep parallel between murder mysteries and religious stories:
  "A murder mystery starts with an original sin—a murder—and the universe is thrown into moral chaos... the detective kind of descends from the heavens... restores the universe to moral right." (90:04)

Faith, Leaving Religion, and Narrative

• Candid about his upbringing as a “very personally Christian” evangelical who is now a non-believer; sees faith as a narrative framing for the world, a central human act:
  "Being alive is an active act of storytelling... narrative framing device... that’s just being alive." (95:01)
• Describes his drift away from faith not as a turn to “raw logic,” but needing a new lens for the world.

Bringing Personal Complexity to Genre Films

• On letting Benoit Blanc “sit out” the film’s first act: "Because the movie is about things that are a little bit more complicated... I didn’t want to shorthand them in a way that would feel reductive or didactic.” (98:20)
• Gained insight into priests by dining, drinking, and conversing with young priests in Denver, translating anecdotes about the ever-on, always-public life of a clergyman directly into the film.

On Cast, Ensembles, and Set Culture

• Johnson praises Josh O’Connor, discovered via Challengers and La Chimera, as “the full package.”
• Explains why famous actors take ensemble roles: "Every single one... the only reason... is because they want to be part of an ensemble and because they love actors." (106:30)
• Strives for “high school friends making movies” energy on his sets—fun, relaxed, collaborative.

On Making More Benoit Blanc Mysteries

• Plans to take a break from the series but expresses willingness to return:
  "As long as Daniel still enjoys making it... I would be thrilled to keep coming back to these."
• Considers every great murder mystery to be rooted in strong character and motivation, not twisty plotting alone.

Filmmaking, Faith, and the Business

• T Street (his production company) is focused on first-time, original voices making films with broad appeal.
• "You have to operate from a feeling of faith... If you make something that's truly interesting and truly good, it'll find its audience." (116:38)

Johnson’s Movie Recs (119:12)

• The Mastermind (“an all-timer”)
• Guillermo’s Frankenstein (very personal)
• Edgar Wright’s The Running Man (“a blast”)
• Pillion (“very funny, very sweet, very human... a beautiful relationship love story”)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "He represents the pinnacle of creativity that makes people happy." – Sean Fennessey on Rob Reiner (04:04)
• "Talk your shit, Timmy." – Amanda Dobbins on Chalamet’s Oscar bravado (17:27)
• "Movies are dreams—and they have to be manifested in human form." – Amanda Dobbins on ‘movie stars’ (62:02)
• "For me, being alive is an active act of storytelling." – Rian Johnson (95:01)
• "As long as Daniel still enjoys making it... and as long as we’re not turning the crank... I’d be thrilled to keep coming back to these." – Rian Johnson (109:33)

Timestamps: Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 00:57–07:46 | Rob Reiner tribute | | 08:17–46:19 | Mailbag: Oscars, industry panic, streaming, movie stars | | 70:43–86:24 | Wake Up Dead Man (review/analysis) | | 86:24–121:15 | Rian Johnson interview: faith, craft, cast, business |

Episode Tone

Conversational, sharp, sometimes irreverent but always anchored in deep love for and critical analysis of movies and moviemaking. Amanda’s asides (“Talk your shit, Timmy”), Sean’s nostalgia, plus Johnson’s warmth and sincerity all thread a tone that is passionate yet never precious.

Recommended for:

• Movie lovers, industry watchers, and fans of the Knives Out series
• Listeners seeking insight on Hollywood’s current existential anxieties
• Anyone interested in the intersection of faith, narrative, and popular cinema
• Fans seeking new films to watch and thoughtful, funny banter about movie culture