The Oscars Snubs Draft. Plus: ‘Sirāt’!

Summary

The Big Picture – “The Oscars Snubs Draft. Plus: ‘Sirāt’!”

Podcast: The Big Picture
Hosts: Sean Fennessey, Amanda Dobbins
Guests: Chris Ryan (CR), Joanna Robinson, Katie Rich
Date: February 16, 2026

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Overview

The episode focuses on a comprehensive and passionate Oscars Snubs Draft, where the hosts and guests debate and “re-award” historic Oscar snubs across seven detailed categories, spanning almost a century of Academy Awards history. The show also closes out with a nuanced, spoiler-discussion of the divisive international film ‘Sirāt’—including a philosophical interview with its director, Oliver Laxe.

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Episode Structure

1. Quick check-in on the current Oscar race (2026 context)
2. Defining and unpacking the concept of an “Oscar snub”
3. Setting up rules and categories for the draft
4. The Oscars Snubs Draft (7 categories, snake style, with historical context and reasons)
5. "Sirāt" review and director interview

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Oscar Race 2026: Setting the Context (03:00–08:00)

• The panel reflects on the unsettled current Oscar race, mainly split between the films Sinners and One Battle.
• Katie Rich: “Ryan Coogler and Zinsey Coogler definitely got the biggest applause in the entire [nominee luncheon] room. Like there is that sinners enthusiasm.”
• There’s excitement around the drama of a close race and speculation on how guild awards (like PGA, SAG) might influence the trajectory.
• Amanda Dobbins: “There’s a huge amount of enthusiasm for Sinners, which is a great movie. And...I would be very happy with either [contender].”

Notable Quotes:

• “We just need something to talk about. You know, we have five weeks left.” – Amanda Dobbins (05:37)
• “If the Academy president thinks I matter, maybe I should embrace being a pundit.” – Katie Rich (01:55)

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What Counts as a “Snub”? (09:30–14:00)

• The panel interrogates the use and meaning of “snub.”
  • Sean Fennessey: “Subjective—snubs are subjective. That’s kind of how this works.”
  • Joanna Robinson: “I think you can only have distance to understand a snub. That’s what’s so interesting about today.”
  • Asserts importance of historical context—how time reshapes perceptions of injustice and greatness.

Notable Quote:

• “The body tends to recognize greatness. … The movies and performances we’ll talk about throughout this draft, there's not a lot of controversy about their greatness.” – Sean Fennessey (10:05)

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Draft Rules & Categories (14:00–23:00)

• Categories drafted (7 total):
  1. Best Picture nominee snub (20th Century)
  2. Best Picture nominee snub (21st Century)
  3. Best Picture winner snub
  4. Best Actor winner snub
  5. Best Actress winner snub
  6. Best Director winner snub
  7. Wild Card (any Oscar category)
• Once a film (or performance) is picked, the entire year is “off the board” for further picks.
• Some picks are used to create “chronological domino effects”—righting past wrongs leads to (hypothetical) cascades of justice for future Oscar races.
• Joanna Robinson: “Sometimes you have to take an Oscar away from someone you do think deserves it” (76:07)

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Draft Highlights & Memorable Moments

Opening Rounds: Best Picture Winner Snubs (23:06–32:00)

• Joanna (Pick #1): Mad Max: Fury Road for Best Picture (2015)
  • “If you’re a film the gen pop loves and film scholars study, you deserve to have won the best picture.” (25:42)
• Amanda: The Social Network for Best Picture (2010)
  • “Lost to a Tom Hooper movie, so... David Fincher doesn't have an Oscar. Like, what are we doing?” (26:57)
• Chris: Goodfellas for Best Picture (1990) over Dances with Wolves
  • “History has proven that this is a much more significant piece of cinema.” (27:58)

Defining Impactful Wins & Domino Effects (34:29–44:11)

• Katie: Tweaking Jack Nicholson’s 1974 win to fix later wins for Pacino, Denzel, and, eventually, Will Smith (35:04)
  • “If Jack Nicholson wins for Chinatown, then Pacino can win for Dog Day Afternoon, then Denzel Washington can win for Malcolm X...” (35:16)
• Animated debates about giving multiple wins/dynasties versus spreading the wealth, shifting the Academy's history (66:07–67:15).

Iconic “Unnominated” Snubs

• Sean: Singin’ in the Rain was not even nominated for Best Picture (38:30)
• Chris: 2001: A Space Odyssey not up for Best Picture (42:01)
• Amanda: Bringing Up Baby (1938) zero nominations, “kind of invents all of it” (78:23)
• Joanna: Seven Samurai for Best Picture (1956) (100:13)

Notable Acting & Directing Correctives

• Amanda (Best Actor): Denzel Washington, Malcolm X (1992) (43:37)
• Chris (Best Actress): Bette Davis, All About Eve (1950) (56:12)
• Joanna (Best Director): Alfred Hitchcock, Rebecca (1940) (46:05)
• Sean (Best Director): Steven Spielberg, E.T. (91:46)
• Katie (Best Actress): Kate Winslet, Eternal Sunshine (2004) to unburden future years (62:02)

Quotes:

• “Wes Anderson, one of our signature filmmakers, doesn’t have an Oscar yet. Grand Budapest was the coronation moment that just passed him by.” – Amanda Dobbins (54:14)

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The Wild Card Picks

Late in the draft, panelists filled their final “wild card” spots with offbeat or overdue acknowledgments:

• Chris: Ennio Morricone, Days of Heaven (score, 1978), to avoid his “makeup” win for The Hateful Eight (107:53)
• Sean: Close Encounters of the Third Kind as a Best Picture nominee snub (109:01)
• Katie: Hoop Dreams for Best Documentary Feature (1994), “possibly the best pick of this draft” (112:03)

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Draft Strategies & Philosophical Turns (67:15–69:04; 114:02–117:12)

• Internal arguments about one-and-done Oscars vs. dynasties; correcting “makeup wins” or rewarding late careers.
• Speculation about modern snubs becoming legendary with time (e.g., First Man, Challengers, Tar)
• Playful arguments about blockbusters (The Dark Knight), comedies (Mean Girls), and how the Oscars reward genre.
• Spirited, lively, and at times irreverent tone—podcasters rib each other over film choices and strategic blocks.

Notable Banter:

• “There’s some things that I think it'll just be cool to have… and then there’s like five or six that we can’t stop talking about.” – Sean (22:32)
• “Go with your passions!” – Amanda (53:53)

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“Sirāt” Review & Director Interview (129:00– end)

Panel Review (129:27–138:48)

• Sean and Amanda discuss their mixed and intense feelings about Oliver Laxe’s “Sirāt.”
• Amanda: “The first, like, the big Esteban scene worked on me and didn’t feel as manipulative as maybe you felt about it.” (131:50)
• The film’s pivotal and shocking scene—Esteban’s death—is dissected as both crafted agony and emotional devastation:
• Sean: “That death fucked me up… it was a real poke in the chest.” (134:46)
• Amanda: “Communicates to you exactly what’s going to happen and then tortures you throughout the rest of the scene till it does happen.” (135:23)
• The conversation pivots on whether shock-as-cinema is manipulative or meaningful; both conclude “Sirāt” is unforgettable, even if divisive.

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Oliver Laxe Interview (139:04–167:49)

• Laxe discusses process, themes, and intentions:
  • He approaches filmmaking as “visceral” and wants the audience to “learn to die before dying.”
  • The shocking moments stem from his belief in catharsis and a confrontation with our “limits.”
  • “When you watch Sirāt, you die. You are confronted to your smallness. But when the film finishes, you are more alive.” (139:07; 141:22)
  • On the significance of location and nonprofessional casting: “We were looking for fragility. That’s what we love of people.” (147:12)
  • He aligns “Sirāt” with the tradition of American road movies as existential metaphors (“Easy Rider,” “Tulane Blacktop,” “Apocalypse Now”).
  • The music and soundscape, developed with composer Kanding Ray, are central: “Images that you can hear, and sounds that you can watch.” (159:09)
  • Ultimately, Laxe wants cinema to “heal the collective imaginary” by facing discomfort head-on.

Memorable Quotes:

• “Life takes care of you all the time, even when life shakes you.” (143:00)
• “We want to heal. I think cinema can heal the collective imaginary... There is a collective wound.” (167:01)
• “It’s a film that you watch with the body, not with the brain. You feel it. But I think that is the essence of cinema.” (153:14)

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• Current Oscar Race & Luncheon Stories: 03:15–07:28
• Defining a Snub: 09:32–14:09
• Draft Rules & Setup: 14:09–23:01
• Joanna picks Mad Max, kicks off the drafts: 23:19
• Major dominos/alt-history moves discussed: 34:29–44:49, 64:00–68:00
• Hot banter (The Dark Knight, superhero films): 71:36–74:08
• Arrival/Amy Adams debate: 77:12–78:13
• Comedies snubbed (Mean Girls, etc): 62:48–63:02
• Close Encounters, 3rd Kind as wild card classic: 109:01–110:08
• “Sirāt” review & spoilers: 129:27–138:30
• Oliver Laxe interview proper: 139:04–167:49

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Episode Takeaways

• The Oscars Snubs Draft is both obsessive and cathartic; panelists relish fixing film history, even as they admit subjectivity and futility.
• “Snubs” are most powerfully felt with time, as great films and performances outlive fleeting Oscar wins.
• “Sirāt” and its creator provoke deep conversation about the powers and perils of shock in art—prompting passionate reflection on cinema’s responsibility.

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Final Draft Boards

(Abridged; see full picks in transcript)

Joanna: Seven Samurai, In the Mood for Love, Mad Max: Fury Road, Harrison Ford in Witness, Amy Adams in Arrival, Hitchcock for Rebecca, Glenn Close in Dangerous Liaisons

Amanda: Bringing Up Baby, The Dark Knight, The Social Network, Denzel in Malcolm X, Diane Keaton in Something's Gotta Give, Wes Anderson for Grand Budapest, Network

Chris: 2001 A Space Odyssey, Children of Men, Goodfellas, Jeff Bridges in Lebowski, Bette Davis in All About Eve, Peter Jackson for Two Towers, Morricone for Days of Heaven

Sean: Singin' in the Rain, Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Brokeback Mountain, Jimmy Stewart for Mr. Smith, Ellen Burstyn for Exorcist, Spielberg for E.T., Close Encounters (Wildcard)

Katie: Do the Right Thing, First Man, Citizen Kane, Jack Nicholson for Chinatown, Kate Winslet for Eternal Sunshine, Wachowskis for The Matrix, Hoop Dreams (Wildcard)

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For Listeners/Readers

If you haven’t heard the episode, use the above as a comprehensive map: discover which beloved films and tragic snubs sparked the greatest passion, how the podcasters would reengineer “Oscar history,” and why “Sirāt” is the shocker that cinephiles will be arguing about for years.

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Closing Notable Quote
"If you want to be more free and more emancipated, if we want to suffer more, it’s good medicine—you know, watching films like Sirāt. … The question is, how do we die? Are we dying with dignity...?"
—Oliver Laxe (156:26)

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

I'm Sean Fennessy.

[A]

I'm Amanda Dobbin and this is the.

[C]

Big Picture, a conversation show about Oscar Snubs. CR is here. So of course we're drafting. We also have two very special guests. One is the one and only Joanna Robinson from House of R, the Ringerverse, Prestige TV podcast, Talk the Thrones, various and sundry podcasts. Outside of that. Welcome back.

[B]

Thanks for having me.

[C]

Also here for the second time, Katie Rich from the Anklers, the Prestige Junkie podcast and a long time okay, so I had to ask you this question. Yeah. Do you consider yourself an Oscar pundit?

[D]

I don't love that word.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

But I will say at the nominees luncheon, which I attended yesterday, the Academy president like shouted out people who make predictions as being part thank you as like being part of the system. So I was like, oh, maybe I should embrace being a pundit. If the Academy president thinks I matter. But I don't. Like I don't think my predictions are always very good.

[C]

So you are a pundit.

[D]

So I don't know.

[C]

Affirmed. Cr, you are a man.

[E]

No, I just like a heart brute. I'm just like I didn't even know.

[C]

What are awards we are going to be drafting today. Oscar Snubs. It's a very complicated series of categories. We will talk through all of them later. In this episode I have a conversation with Oliver Lasch. He is the writer director of Seurat, which is a fascinating movie that Amanda and I will also talk about later in this episode. Please stick around for our conversation. We'll Be right back right after this.

[A]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by State Farm.

[C]

You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into, the ones who'll debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at three in the morning. Those friends are gold.

[A]

State Farm is like that, helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits. Car, home life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award winning app.

[C]

Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Okay, before we get into snubs and snubbings and snubbies and flubs and flubs, there is an Oscar race going on right now. We've been talking about it on this podcast. We'd be remiss if we didn't talk about this year's race a little bit with Joe and Katie here. Two of the goats in the race game.

[A]

Joe or Joanna? We just talked about this.

[C]

I say Joe and it will be Joe til I die.

[D]

I'm gonna say Joanna but just I don't want to make it weird ye same person.

[A]

Yeah, well it's like you're with your.

[C]

Ex boyfriend and your, your current boyfriend together forever.

[D]

I know.

[C]

Katie, what do you, what do you make of the race? What's going on?

[D]

How are you feeling, you know, after. So I've been doing a bunch of award season events as I said. I was at the nominees lunch and I had someone yesterday being like, have you changed your predictions based on that? And I was like, I don't know how to do that. That's a room full of like 800 people maybe and the academy is 10,000. But I do think the sinners versus one battle after another thing kind of keeps, it keeps staying unsettled. You see something like at the luncheon yesterday, Ryan Coogler and Zinsey Coogler definitely got the biggest applause in the entire room. Like there is that sinner's enthusiasm. But also it's two great movies and I can't feel too bad about it working out that way. So it's not. I think I know who I want to win but I kind of just, I want the drama to stay as long as I can. We want, we want action in this.

[B]

Katie, how many interviews did you do yesterday at the Anomies luncheon?

[D]

Individual people or total interviews?

[B]

Total interviews.

[D]

Like I think it was like 38 and so many.

[B]

45 people.

[D]

Yeah, I think that's the number.

[C]

Why?

[D]

Great question. I mean we're Gonna, if you go to the anchor, you'll see the videos. We've got super cuts. We asked people about their favorite Oscar winning movies, got some fascinating answers. And you know, they say, hey, here's the director of this short that you've watched. That's pretty good. I'm like, hey, I'll give you some attention. I want to help you feel part of this whole thing. So it's a part of the celebration of it. But then you get to the end and you're like, I don't.

[A]

I don't know how to do it anymore.

[B]

Katie. Katie's big move at every Vanny Fair Oscar party was to go up to the below the line people and say like, hey, can I hold your Oscar?

[D]

Oh, yeah. And they're thrilled to let you do it.

[C]

To be clear, it's kind of sensual.

[D]

But also they're like, yeah, absolutely. They're drunk. They're having a great time. It's a very good move if you ever see someone with an Oscar.

[C]

Okay, cr, you are holding fast on F1, right?

[E]

Last we spoke, you sidetracked.

[C]

Just crashing into all your competitors.

[E]

Done 38 interviews for F1 people from F1, but going out to the motorsports community and preaching its awards, potentially, what have you learned? You know, there's some mixed feelings about F1 within the motorsports community. I learned that when we did the rewatchables, a lot of people just being like, this is not my. This doesn't represent Formula One racing.

[C]

Not my F1.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Wow.

[E]

I feel like, are we going to get a split this year? Is that like the narrative that's emerging after PTA wins?

[C]

DGAs and we discussed it on the episode last week.

[A]

Yeah, it's like, I do understand that that's appealing. And also that at this point in their awards season, as Katie's pointing out, like, we just need something to talk about. You know, we do have. We have five weeks left. I don't know. I don't know if we're going to.

[C]

You've not moved off of one battle.

[D]

The whole time for both.

[A]

I think that in the last few years the race has become apparent or the winner has become apparent earlier and earlier. And we second guess ourselves and we try to make the race interesting.

[C]

And.

[B]

And then it's Lenora and I do.

[A]

Think that there's a huge amount of enthusiasm for Sinners, which is a great movie. And I'm with Katie that it would be great if it win. And Sean and I were talking about how we are in the unusual position of Liking both contenders. You know, normally in this situation there's something versus something. Exactly. And when we feel very strongly about what should win, I would be very happy with either. I do think that the last few years show us that one movie kind of declares itself the Colossus very early on and just keeps going. So I do still think it will be one battle, but I could be very wrong.

[C]

What do you think?

[B]

I think the cynical part of me says it'll and I love one battle. So it's not a negative result, but I think it'll be one battle. But there's a part of me that wants us to all use our power here, however thin it may be to sort of say, what if it's Sinners? That would be so exciting. And the more people say talk about it as if it's a likelihood, then the more the voters will say like, huh, people aren't talking about it. We should do it. So that's always my attitude during the Oscar race is like, keep the hope alive.

[C]

Yeah, I think we just have to wait until the PGAs. I think the PGA's are really going to tell the story because that's also ranked choice voting and that is just like the Oscar voting. And if Sinners wins there, it's going to be a nail biter because we.

[D]

All assume Sinners is going to win. SAG for interesting reasons to me, like on a battle has a great ensemble also, but Sinners just seems to have it. So SAG won't tell us as much as pga.

[C]

Yeah, I feel like they both, they share a lot of similarities in casting that I find interesting. They both have real discoveries, young discoveries that are the centerpieces of the movies, but they also have like this really fascinating and strong veteran group of actors behind them. You know, I think people, you don't get as much credit for casting somebody like Leo when it comes to ensemble. You know, usually movies that have like megastar right in the middle don't win in that category. So.

[D]

But by Michael Jordan and Sinner's, the same thing.

[C]

True. Younger, I guess maybe a little less proven. But I do think it's going to, I think PGA's is going to say a lot.

[B]

What about best actor? Where are you, Katie?

[D]

I'm still on Timmy. I think it just makes sense for it to be him. I was again talking to shadowy Oscar campaigners. You know, everyone's just gossiping this time of year. Who is saying he keeps talking to academy members who kind of think he's obnoxious and too young. And all the stuff we say about Timmy, and I just. I can't figure out how real that is.

[A]

The we. The we is not coming over to this side of the table.

[D]

You know, he's 30. We just have to deal with that. His skin is beautiful, and we have to make our bees.

[C]

I thought we. We were all at the DGAs and I thought he acquitted himself really well in that room. You know, like, he really. He was getting a lot of laughs. People seemed to. He was. He had. I has kind of like.

[E]

Was that his Cynthia Erivo speech? What was the one where he was just like, oh, I have this really great Cynthia Erivo story, but she left?

[A]

No, this was the one where he said that Josh Safdie turned to him out of the blue the other day and said, if you ever need an alias, it should be Mike dipey.

[E]

Mike dipey, yeah.

[C]

And he was just like. That was unprompted by anything.

[E]

Incidentally, is it Wednesday? Were we recording on Wednesday?

[C]

Yes.

[E]

SD Kidd, the rapper from Liverpool that some people think is Timothee Chalamet, is performing at Echoplex in LA. And it's like $500 ticket because people think Timmy will be there.

[A]

Timmy will be there. Oh, interesting.

[C]

You going?

[E]

No, I have a live show.

[A]

Yeah, well, sorry, excuse that you're opening for sdkitt.

[E]

I am sdkitten. I am a Liverpudlian rapper.

[C]

Were there any major snubs this year that we felt like were unforgivable?

[D]

I've been so deep in snubs from every year.

[E]

Do you want to define snub for us?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

What is a snub?

[A]

Oh, here we go.

[C]

Well, honestly, I don't know. I don't know that it's a useful word.

[A]

That's not the breakout clip we were looking for.

[C]

Well, I don't operate that way. You know, I think there is complexity in all of these concepts. You know, Mark Harris, longtime Oscar pundit author, has, like, famously for years been saying there's no such thing as a snub. That that's not how this works. I've never really agreed with that point of view. I do think that, for example, Amanda Seyfried not getting in over Kate Hudson, to me, I find hard to accept. Like, from a purely emotional and analytical perspective, it's just a much bigger and more interesting performance. In my opinion. Subjective snubs are subjective, you know, and that's kind of how this works. But over time, the body tends to recognize greatness. And a lot of the movies and performances that we'll talk about throughout this draft. There's not a lot of controversy around the greatness of 2001 A Space Odyssey, for example, you might not like it, but it has been acclaimed and affirmed as a masterpiece. So a movie like that, I think rises very clearly to the level. Level of snub. But that's not a specific definition. It's just kind of a gut feeling that I have. I don't know.

[B]

I think you can only have distance to understand a snub. That's what I think. Which I think is what's so interesting about we're going to do today. But Katie and I, couple months ago, whenever that was, we went back through sort of like the last 10 years of best Picture wins, and we were just looking at like, what do we think should have won? And that was a really fun exercise. Cause, you know, with some distance, you can say what the movie of that year was and how it's resonating, you know, down the line of history. I don't think Honora is going to be the movie of that year. I don't think we yet know exactly what the movie of that year is, you know, so that's why I like what we're doing, because we can go back as far as we want into Oscar history to look at why massive famous directors never got an Oscar win and rectify it here today on this.

[D]

Podcast, or why actors win for a performance that you look at, you're like, no one cares about the movie. Nobody remembers it. But they were in the press and they were doing interviews at an interesting.

[E]

And it was a make good for other ones.

[D]

We're going to definitely talk about makeup wins. Like, it's always interesting to me why things happen, even if it's not the right thing. That's why I love the Oscars even when they get it wrong. And that's what so much of this is going to be. So the story behind it from that moment is totally fascinating, even if it's not the right win at all.

[C]

What do you think?

[A]

I mean, I do think Joe's right, that some of it is historical and then some of it is also a response to the fact that this is an industry now. And so a snub is a very real thing, in my opinion, because we spend so much time talking about who will and won't be nominated. And there is more and more attention paid to predictions and betting markets and all sorts of things. And then you wake up and someone doesn't get the phone call on Oscar morning. And so There is that real feeling, I think, and entire businesses are oriented around, oh, I thought we had this or I thought this person was going to be in Chase. Infinity would have been my pick.

[C]

I was thinking Paul Meskel. Yeah.

[A]

Kate Hudson in that best actress spot. But it's, it's someone who was present and who has been in the conversation and then suddenly was not. And you know, and I guess in the, in the present tense, that's based on, you know, for your consideration in the industry. And then to Joe's point, historically, it's. It's the movies that are in the conversation because we still talk about them.

[C]

Right. Chris, you're not as Oscar pilled as the four of us.

[E]

I'm not, no. But it was a really interesting exercise to go back through Oscar history and both see how far back, you know, historical disappointments reach beyond like Harvey Weinstein and stuff like that. Like, it's like it goes all the way back to pretty much the inception of the award. So it was really cool to look and be like, oh, man, like, I can't believe this didn't get nominated. I can't believe this didn't win. You have two different categories, sty, like two different styles of category here that I think is worth noting in the outset of this conversation. One is we're going to do a bunch of best pictures that are about nominees that didn't win that we feel like were snubbed and some that are. Then we have best pictures that we feel like should have been nominated that weren't. And we do the same for the performers or similar to the performers.

[C]

You want to talk about all the ornate rules that have been.

[A]

I think you should talk about it.

[E]

Because this is your architect from the Matrix moment. And I want to see if you've walled yourself in with your own stacks of DVDs and can't see over the piles.

[C]

First of all, this is. I was born to do this.

[A]

And it became a little annoying, you know, the more that we all had to like, consult the great oracle.

[E]

This is the longest text message spread ever of questions about the rules.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think, well, I'll just be.

[A]

I know your feelings are already hurt.

[C]

Don't be real. Don't be. I feel like I've done it. I feel like I have. The wizard of Oz has arrived.

[B]

There were a couple times where you're like, is this too hard? And we're like, no, no, no, we can do this. But then also there are some questions I didn't ask. I was like, you've asked nine questions in a row. I think that's as many questions as you get.

[C]

And honestly, the fuck ups and the mishaps are a part of the fun too. Basically, what I wrote through. How did we. How did I select the categories? It was more of like an emotional clarification around my thinking around this exercise. All of the questions that you guys asked, all of which were very good, were really more practical. We're like, how are we going to do this? So I think I'll just go through what I set up and then you guys can talk about the things that you were like. But this, but this, but this. All of which I think the audience at home needs to understand so that they can follow along as we play the game. Deal? Yeah. Okay. So we want to represent films that didn't get nominated at all as well as nominees that were brutally overlooked. That can happen in both of the types of categories that we have selected here, and Katie has been pushing on that, and I think that that makes a lot of sense. Also, it's impossible to limit our pool beyond decades or centuries. So we are relying on each other to narrativize our picks and explain why the snub was so egregious in the moment. And for me, at least, I'm curious what ramifications it had for future Academy Awards. So a lot of times when a film or a performance wins, there's a big ripple effect through history around future victories for other actors and actresses, something I'm fascinated by. And then when selecting, you must choose both the film that was snubbed and the film you would replace it with in the nomination categories. In the winner categories, it's assumed it would replace the winner. But be prepared to discuss what the winner was in the category and why it did not deserve the win. Now, in terms of the rules of engagement, if you take a movie from a specific year or a performance from a specific year, that year is then completely off the board. So that makes this a very challenging game. You pointed out that means because we have seven categories, we will have 49 different years of Oscar history represented here.

[B]

I think I did bad math. 35 years, right?

[C]

35. Sorry, 7 times 5.

[B]

No one responded to that. I was like, oh, it's because my math was bad.

[C]

35. Clearly mine was as well because I didn't double check that. So 35 years across the 90 plus years of Oscar history, which is a lot, but not so many. Are you daunted by that?

[A]

No. Yeah, Good job.

[E]

I don't think so, yeah, yeah, it's okay.

[A]

It's. I mean, it's a lot of movies.

[E]

Well, you know, there's another restriction that I kind of added to this for myself, which is not one I expect everybody to, but for the nominee snubs. So for things that were not even nominated, I tried to keep it. Like, I could make an argument that this plausibly could have or should have been nominated.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[E]

So I'm not doing, like.

[C]

Yes.

[E]

You know, why didn't. Why didn't Gina Carano get nominated for Haywire or something like that?

[B]

Why did she, though?

[D]

You know, what do we mean with that? We can live with that one, I think.

[E]

Just saying Mandalorian fell off since she left. You know, Like.

[A]

I did also find myself. There were a few where I. Especially in the winner categories, where I was like, I can't actually take the Oscar away from the winner in the real year. Like, I can't make that argument. Or, you know, I don't think that's good for history or the world. And so I didn't.

[B]

That happened a couple times.

[E]

I have two that I think I'm gonna be pressed to make the argument for, but I believe in it.

[C]

Again, this is a subjective game. There's not a holistic total truth about even good Oscar wins. They can be upended or undermined, and we should do that. I think it's more fun if we do.

[D]

How do you guys feel about the winners that. From the 30s and 40s that you may or may not have seen? And there's a whole bunch of other things you might not have seen that there's something you want to make the case for. But do we feel okay just taking away the Oscar from someone whose movie we haven't seen?

[C]

Are we all going to do it?

[A]

10.

[B]

All right.

[D]

Just making sure, like, I like it.

[C]

Is on my board. Okay, here are the seven categories. Best Picture nominee, snub, 20th century. So that means these are all movies that did not make it into Best Picture that we believe should have gone in. Best picture nominee, snub, 21st century. Obviously, a much smaller pool to pull from there. Best Picture winner, snub. Now, in this category and an all winner categories, like I said, you can choose something that was not nominated. I'm personally not going to be doing that. But anything that's on the board that recently could have been nominated and won, I think is reasonable. Does that make sense?

[D]

Yes, because we have the nomination categories also for pictures, so it makes sense to split them.

[C]

Best Actor winner, snub. Best Actress winner, Snub. Best Director winner, Snub. And Wild Card.

[E]

What's Wild Card?

[C]

Any category.

[E]

Anything that somehow didn't get drafted doesn't.

[C]

Have to be from those six that we set up. Could be sound design. Oh, if you wanted it to be. Shit.

[D]

Got some strong sound design opinions. You've been waiting for a chance to get out.

[E]

Yeah, you got it.

[B]

Can you do it from any, like, a defunct category that no longer exists?

[C]

I think so.

[D]

Are you gonna do, like, black and white photography?

[C]

Sure. Obviously you know me, young performer. There have been some interesting ones that.

[D]

They'Ve eradicated back then.

[C]

Yeah, that's it. How does that sound?

[E]

That sounds good.

[C]

Any other questions?

[E]

I think I might need to use my computer.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. So I'm gonna try it.

[C]

Did you get thrown off by Wildcard?

[E]

No, but I just think I'm gonna need to, like, as things get taken off the board, I do think I'm gonna need to have, like, a little bit more of a.

[C]

While you're getting it, let's vamp. Cause I asked Amanda what superpower she wants to have in the previous episode, and I want to know what Katie and Joanna say.

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Oh, boy.

[D]

Wait. Oh, you have. You've already answered.

[A]

Well, no, it wasn't. What superpower? It was more specific.

[C]

You were like, I don't want to be a shapeshifter. I'm into invisibility, teleportation, mind controls or something.

[A]

Why were we talking about that?

[C]

Well, just. We talk about mutants on the show. That's maybe. Why are we talking about movies?

[A]

It's a part of the show, but it was also about aliens. It wasn't an X Men thing.

[C]

It was. We were talking about the New Mutants, the film the New Mutants. We were talking about the gap of time.

[B]

You were talking about the film the New Mutants.

[C]

We were. Because we were talking about this. 11 months that we're living inside of between superhero movies is the longest stretch of time I learned, since the period between 1998 and 2000. The longest stretch where we haven't had a superhero movie.

[D]

Wait, Joanna, that's news to you, too? I would have thought you were on top of this.

[B]

Oh, you would have thought I was.

[D]

Like, I haven't been talking to you stuff.

[C]

I don't know. This.

[B]

Two Game of Thrones shows this year. Like, we got plenty to do.

[C]

Katie, what's your superpower?

[D]

I think it's teleportation. It's like, it is such a boring, grown up thing, but, like, I don't Live in la. I come here a lot for work. I just. The ability to just be somewhere. Like, if you're trying to get across town, if you're trying to pick your kid up, how often are you like late to pick your kid up? And like, if I can just be there right now, it's. It's so useful.

[C]

It's a good call. Joanna, what do you think?

[B]

It's the same, but like more in the vein of like world travel.

[D]

Like, you're super fun. You're going to use your powers for good.

[B]

That's true. I don't have a kid to pick up from day.

[A]

My superpower.

[C]

Yeah. What do you want?

[A]

Yeah, that's all that's holding me.

[E]

I'd like to be Michael Mann. That's my superpower.

[C]

Are you sure?

[E]

That's super Superman with two N's.

[D]

Nice.

[F]

Very good.

[C]

I like that.

[E]

You know, all of them are poison chalices, you know, because all of our favorite mutants, they're like my great power, but my great frailty.

[D]

So I have a hard time taking downtime self propelled. And I really like, I just feel like I could nail it.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I think probably expectation right then it's something like. Well, I definitely think that you can be in this meeting. And also. And the class mom. And also in your. What was Cable's power?

[C]

I think he had a giant gun. DT Time travel.

[B]

There's time travel.

[E]

I want to be Cable.

[B]

Do you want to be Cable? Yeah.

[D]

I love that.

[B]

I want to see the fan art right now of CR Is Cable.

[C]

Wow. That is achievable.

[B]

That is very CR Heads, you have your assignment.

[C]

Okay. I think we should set a draft order. Jack.

[E]

Crucial here.

[B]

I know.

[C]

So here we go.

[B]

First.

[A]

Oh, this is exciting.

[C]

Two just flew out. I don't know if you saw that. Two What? Two of your names. So I'm gonna grab one from my lap.

[D]

Is it a bowl with our names in it?

[E]

Yeah, it's a Dungeons and Dragons die.

[D]

I keep hearing about the Dungeons and Dragons die, but I couldn't really picture it.

[E]

Oh, well, maybe the Dungeons and Dragons are coming through because with the first.

[A]

Overall pick is Joanna Robinson. Wow. Exciting. Congratulations.

[E]

Drafting second, Amanda Dobbins.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

At least it's not last. I've had the.

[C]

You guys feel like the draft order is crucial for this one. I feel like there are so many options. Like, is there a clear.

[B]

There are so many options, but there are like five at the top that you really want to get. And like, I guess it's.

[A]

A hard.

[D]

Time not feeling like we're just making a list of the best ones, but I want the best ones. Right. Like, someone's gonna like. But like, I was listening to you on the hype draft. It's like, I just want what I care about. I don't care.

[C]

There's some things that I think it'll just be cool to have.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Y.

[C]

That are interesting to me. And then there's like, for you and I, there's like five or six that we can't stop talking about.

[A]

And the year of it all, there are, like, a few years that are going to go pretty fast. So that's the issue.

[C]

Drafting third is Chris Ryan. Fourth, Sean Fennesee. Fifth, Katie. Katie, on the turn. Are you ready for this?

[A]

And you understand what the turn is? I do, yeah. Okay. But you have to wait.

[C]

This will be in snake fashion.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

You like snake fashion?

[B]

I do like snake fashion things.

[C]

Well, the moment of truth.

[B]

Yeah, I think. I think there's only one first choice. Okay.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[D]

Do you agree?

[C]

I think there are two. I think there are two really strong first contenders.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I think that is also a little bit on personal preference, you know, so maybe, you know for sure.

[C]

I'm very curious to hear what you do.

[B]

Okay. Well, I think in Best Picture win snub. I'm taking Mad Max Fury Road off the table.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

You guys don't think that's the number one picture? That is 2015 off the table.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And that's not thinking strategically of like, who else can I knock?

[A]

I had a really good wild card for 2015.

[C]

I had a really good 2015, too.

[A]

Was yours also Ray Fines from a Bigger Splash? Well, that was gonna be a fun run. Goodbye. Okay.

[C]

It was gonna be Carol, Best Picture nominee.

[B]

Okay. That's a great one.

[A]

That's good.

[B]

And look at the damage I did.

[A]

Great for me. All right, so speak on it.

[B]

Mad Max Fury Road. I think when Katie and I were looking back with love and respect to.

[E]

Spotlight, we all really do journalism under assault.

[B]

You know, it's not about journalism. It's about the post Apocalypse Now, Chris. That's the reality we have.

[E]

I cannot wait for Marty Baron to weigh in on you.

[B]

What feels more resonant, Guzzoline or journalism? Right now, it's guzz.

[C]

They're intertwined.

[B]

I think that's true. I think that, you know, this is a year where this is before, you know, this is post Dark Knight, sort of. We are trying to show that we are hip to genre, but it is before a Bigger pivot to. We are actually honoring genre in the top categories move that the Academy made. So Mad Max Fury Road won a bunch like all these below the line awards. But I remember the conversation that year was just sort of like, but no way it's gonna win best picture. And I think if this were to happen again, it would definitely be a different conversation. You know what I mean?

[C]

I think this is in kind of the blood of the sinner conversation. This is a real true blue genre movie with a crazy vampire freakout ending and stuff like that. I mean, through the first 75 years of the Oscars. Had no chance. And now it's changing.

[B]

Exactly. After everything, everywhere, all at once and et cetera. And so I think that Mad Max Fury Road as a movie that almost everyone acknowledges is an absolute classic that worked despite itself and has an incredible book written about it that a lot of people like, most people who love film have read Kyle Buchanan's book. So if you're a film that the gen pop loves and film scholars study, you deserve to have won the best picture that year. So that is my pick.

[C]

It's a tough one for cr. Big spotlight head.

[E]

No, I'm excited to. This is. This is a good. Like, I. I would love to have picked that. It was not in, like, my upper. Upper. Like, blue. Blue ribbon. Like, I have to get this. So this is a really good way to start.

[A]

I'm up.

[C]

You're up.

[A]

I. So we can talk about strategy here. I've learned over the years, if you really want something, if something's important to you, you gotta take it. Even though that means in my case, I'm leaving 2007 on the board. I'm leaving 76 on the board. I. In 2010. Also in best picture nominee Snub. I mean, winner Snub will be taking the Social Network, which to me is one of the great miscarriage of Oscar justices of our lifetime. And this is still my favorite David Fincher movie. Certainly my favorite Aaron Sorkin movie. It was our number one on 25 for 25. And it lost the King speech. Like, I don't know what you say. It lost to a Tom Hooper movie, so. And yeah, I like Colin Firth as much as the next woman. I just. This was insane. And David Fincher doesn't have an Oscar. Like, what are we doing? What. What are we doing? What are we doing? So that's my pick. Thank you so much.

[D]

You guys just picked two movies that are like, classic old Oscars. Like, what the Oscars were before they expanded The Academy. I think that the Mad Max year is an OscarSSO white year. Like, it really those, like the last two of the, like, come on, guys, we can't really keep doing this anymore. And now it's different.

[B]

And with the King Speech, like Colin, he won as it felt like a make good to me in my heart for a single man, for losing for a single man. And so I'm happy with his win. But that movie did not need to win. Do you know what I mean?

[C]

The Tom Hooper win is arguably worse. I mean, that's an abominable in Oscar history. The King's Speech is a perfectly fine movie that has been villainized because it lost. It won in this race.

[A]

And because of the Weinstein of it all.

[C]

Sure. And the tactics by which it won the race. But yeah, that to me, I thought for our purposes, that was the number one overall pick. But actually it makes complete sense, based on your passions in history, that you would go Mad Max, Fury Road. Okay, cr, you're at number three. You've heard two passionate 2010s selections. Yeah.

[B]

Are you taking us to the 1930s?

[E]

No, not yet. I think I'm going to do for Best Picture, Winter Snub. I'm gonna do 1990, and I'm gonna take Goodfellas over Dances With Wolves. This is a really difficult choice. Cause there's a couple here, especially in this era, that I'd like to correct, but this is the most egregious one. Now, obviously from personal bias, Goodfellas is one of my favorite films ever made. But I think history has proven that, like, this is a much more significant piece of cinema and a much more, much larger pop culture footprint than Dances As Wolves, which is not even that bad of a movie, but is like a classic. Like, great, man, great. You know, great effort on one man's part. Costner directing himself. Goodfellas is just like a flat out 5 star, watch it 400 times masterpiece. And the fact that Scorsese had to wait, what, 20 more years to get his Oscar for Departed?

[C]

16.

[E]

16. It's just ridiculous. So I'll take Goodfellas.

[D]

Can I ask a procedural question?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

So we were saying before that, like, if I pick, like, if I pick Scorsese losing for Goodfellas, then someone else isn't gonna be able to draft him for Taxi Driver or something. Do we say that for movies too? Like, we're not doing another Fincher movie. We're not doing another Scorsese movie. Or does that.

[C]

I don't think so.

[D]

Okay. It Seems too hard to me.

[C]

Yeah. I think for actor, yes. But for filmmaker also, because the filmmaker doesn't get the best picture win.

[D]

That's true.

[B]

Goodfellas is off the board.

[E]

But Martin Scorsese is good for.

[B]

But Martin Scorsese is not.

[A]

Which is good. You saved me from doing a very trolly thing of taking Julia Roberts for Pretty Woman.

[D]

That would have been a great pick.

[A]

90 90. Which I was never going to do because I also believe that Goodfellas is, like, the greater injustice. But I did just delete.

[C]

That would have been funny. Yeah.

[A]

Well, and I also, like, that's one of the things where I was talking about where even some of my picks and doing, like, Amanda shit. Like, my heart isn't really in that one. Well, I think if there's only room.

[C]

For it in certain places, if you.

[A]

Can only have one pick from 1990, it's gotta be Goodfellas or Scorsese.

[B]

There's also, like, as I think about it, as this, like, fixing history. Julia Roberts has her Oscar. You know what I mean? Like, that's how I approached a lot of these.

[A]

She's good in Brockovich, and I love that dress.

[C]

I did the opposite in a lot of cases. In a lot of cases, I was like, this person got their Oscar, too.

[B]

For the wrong movie.

[C]

And so I'm gonna try to go backwards to fix that.

[D]

Did you pick time travel as your superpower? Cause that feels like, what's your strateg?

[C]

I would like to control time and space. Is that on the board? Is that something. That's what the Infinity Gems are all about, right? I don't need a power. I need a glove.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

That's what I need.

[B]

Okay. Thanos it is. So I'm looking for Chris Ryan as cable fan Art and Sean Fantasy as Thanos.

[C]

I mean, longtime listeners of the show. No, Thanos is my guy.

[B]

And then just a trio of teleporters over here.

[E]

Going to the beach, going downtown. Going to the beach, going downtown.

[B]

That sounds great.

[C]

It's really interesting that the three picks have been Best Picture winners, because that is the place where, like, our mind goes when we think of snubs, right? We think of. And I don't even. It's really more injustice or travesties. You know, years ago at Grantland, we did a bracket, a whole week of Oscar travesties. One of my first. That was sort of the origin, I think, of whatever the fuck this show is. And there are a handful. There are a handful of travesties, of brutal travesties. I think especially the last two or two that in my mind are egregious.

[B]

Not yours, Joanna.

[C]

No, I don't think it's egregious because I think Spotlight people have a warm feeling about. And not that they don't have a warm feeling towards Dances With Wolves. I feel like people do still kind of like that movie, but they've taken on more villainous Personas. I'm just gonna go with, I think maybe the worst win of all time for Best Picture winner, which is Brokeback Mountain over Crash.

[D]

Had to be done Great.

[C]

And it's a little bit of a chalk pick, and it kind of doesn't really necessitate a huge explanation, but it is a bizarre win. It's a year where there was a split, where Ang Lee did win Best Director. This takes 2005 off the board, by the way.

[A]

Yeah. Deleting the Squid and the Whale from Best nominee stuff.

[C]

Well, you know, obviously Ang Lee's movie is beautiful and Paul Haggis movie is kind of incoherent as you and Van explored on the rewatchables. It is kind of an amusing how the fuck did this happen Revisit. But.

[B]

Well, we were fixing racism and we did it.

[C]

And we did fix it. We did fix it because we got green book 13 years later and it fixed it. So thanks to them, there are other ones that I think I maybe feel a little bit more personally passionate about, about movies that I wish would have won. But I think that this is the snub of snubs in my mind. Okay, Katie, you've got two picks.

[A]

I know.

[D]

And I feel like all these I've had in my mind of where I can go now it's actually coming down to making some choices. I still think none of you have done the best picture snub that I thought was going to happen. And this is gonna be in nominations for me, but it's do the right thing.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

In 1989. Yeah.

[B]

Taking 89 off the board is tough for me.

[D]

I don't think that you can do another one for 89.

[A]

You can. Even though, like, I have do the right thing instead of When Harry Met Sally. Even though when Harry Metalli is also bite, it's another one. Right. To do the right thing is.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

The other great travesty.

[B]

It's tough for my Spike Lee and director hopes, but that's okay.

[D]

We're just gonna move on. It's tough for that. I've made a case at one point for Fight the Power, an original song, as being an all time snub. That would be a fun one. But again, the fact that.

[C]

But you're good with Danny Aiello being the only acting.

[D]

I think that makes sense. And I think that was right and true. And history has pointed out the fact that it repeats itself again later on when you've got Green Book the same year as blackkklansman. The fact that Spike Lee really has done a lot to kind of call out the Oscars for their blind spots, like, you know, the Oscars. So white movement, the international Academy happened beyond him. But he's been pushing that boulder up a hill for a long time. We may have a chance to talk about other major Spike Lee snubs at the Oscars, but I do think do the Right Thing is kind of the be all, end all.

[C]

There's that amazing red carpet moment from 2018 where he's asked about Green book on the red carpet. And he kind of like looks into the camera and he's slightly. And then he like kind of runs away laughing maniacally.

[B]

Cause the interviewer was British. That was at the Vietnam party.

[D]

That was at the beer party. Really funny that you're not.

[C]

Okay, Katie, you've got another pick.

[D]

Okay. So, Sean, I feel like I'm gonna jump ahead to what you were trying to do in terms of the fixing history aspect of this. Cause I didn't really follow what you were doing. And I feel there's a lot of people who were not even nominated in some of these acting categories that I wanted to make the case for. But then I came across a way to fix history completely.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

And I want to throw this out there. And I'm nervous about taking this year off the board because you guys are going to have thought of something I haven't done, but I'm going to 1974. If you give Jack Nicholson best actor for Chinatown, the he loses that year to Art Carney and Harry and Tonto. A movie I have not seen and know very little about. It's about a cat, which is up my alley. I want to give all due respect, Art Carney.

[E]

It's a nice film.

[D]

It does seem like a nice film. And everyone liked him. And it was a real kind of win. We've seen a lot of time where someone who you've liked a while gets his moment out there. So if Jack Nicholson wins for Chinatown, then maybe say he doesn't win the next year for Cuckoo's Nest. He might have. It might have just been a double up. But if he doesn't win for Cuckoo's Nest the next year, then Pacino can win for Dog Day Afternoon, which is the same year in 75. And then if Pacino wins for Die Day Afternoon, you get to 1992. He doesn't need his makeup Oscar, and Denzel Washington can win for Malcolm X. Wow.

[A]

Oh. So hold on.

[C]

We're not done yet. So I had this exact same idea.

[A]

He does, but you guys are going. You're doing Nicholson over Pacino.

[C]

So here's what I did.

[A]

Okay? All right.

[C]

I did 1973 and 1974. I didn't take an Oscar away from Art Carney. I took an Oscar who only had one. I took an Oscar away from Jack Lemmon, who already had one. Jack Lemmon won in 73 for Save the Tiger. If you take that away and give it to Jack Nicholson for the Last Detail, arguably his best performance, then you don't need Nicholson to win in 75, and you get to do a Katie Delineated, which is you give to Pacino for Dog Day Afternoon. Then you don't have to wait until 1992. In 1992, you give Malcolm X Denzel's win there, which is one of the great Oscar snubs of all time. Then that means that you don't have to Give Denzel in 2001 the training day Oscar, which is a fine Oscar, but is a real makeup. Then that means that Will Smith can win that year for Ali, which then means Will Smith does not have to win for King Richard, which means the slap never happens. Wow.

[E]

But who cares if the slap happens?

[A]

Yeah, I don't care.

[C]

It's just a great one. He could have died.

[A]

He could have killed him.

[C]

There would have been no pressure that.

[D]

Night for Will Smith.

[C]

Would you have even been there?

[A]

I'd like to litigate all of this, just in the sense of it doesn't count.

[B]

These are fun what if. But, like, it's also an interesting, like.

[E]

Idea that once you win one, you knit like you're off.

[A]

But also, like, which is not true. I'm giving Pacino the Oscar for Godfather 2 every single time. He's amazing.

[C]

Well, you're not in this draft because it's 1974.

[A]

If I'm changing 1974, like, I think if I have to pick a single greatest screen performance ever, like, it might be pacino and Godfather 2. That is incredible.

[D]

So.

[A]

But I mean, you know, could be.

[C]

Dog after, you know, But I know it could be Serpico.

[A]

He's really good in that too. But anyway, there I'm deleting. It. Delete.

[C]

I do. I. This, to me, was the most fun of this draft.

[D]

I'm glad that we went the same direction. Same idea becomes a problem in a lot of these. Like, he gets nominated a lot. He keeps not winning. They keep feeling like they own. Paul Newman has the same thing. We might get to some of them. It's some of those guys.

[C]

Great pick. We've broken out of the 90s and 2000s. Thank you, Katie. Okay. That means it's me.

[E]

Yep.

[C]

Shit. I don't know what I'm doing. Take a look. Hmm. Where do I want to go?

[A]

This is always really fun when you chastise everybody else for not being ready and be like, you have to vamp. You have to vamp.

[C]

I haven't done that once.

[A]

And then you just. You're searching.

[C]

These are four of the most gifted podcasters on Earth, and you're sitting here quietly while I say into a microphone, why talk amongst yourselves?

[D]

I'm thinking about your doing it yourself.

[E]

Vamp, which is a lean podcast.

[A]

There you go.

[E]

You've gotten distracted by something she did. You're vamping while you're also thinking.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Are you guys thinking years about, like, what you can grab before somebody else does?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, that's how I've organized all of it. Like, I only have one pick per year.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

I did a spreadsheet.

[A]

You have to make the hard.

[D]

No, it's true.

[B]

It's true.

[D]

You just spreadsheet.

[B]

Left hand is all the years, and then right hand is the category. So I can see across the year, what are the options that I want for that year?

[C]

Okay, I've got one.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not sure it's gonna help me.

[E]

But it's only Lillian Gish performances.

[A]

To be clear, 76 and 2007 are still on the board.

[C]

Yes, they are.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

In 99, they'll still be on the board after I make my pick, which is going to be for best Picture. Snub. Singing in the rain from 1952.

[A]

I thought it was going to be there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I think a case for the worst Academy Award best picture win of all time behind Crash is maybe the greatest show on earth. No offense to Steven Spielberg, who loves that film and featured it prominently at.

[D]

The beginning of the fable movies.

[B]

Real tough beat for Jimmy Stewart from you.

[C]

This is actually a pretty interesting collection of best picture nominations. Cecil Ran Shit Truly is High Noon, Ivanhoe, Moulin Rouge, John Houston's Moulin Rouge and the Quiet man were the other nominees that year. Singing in the Rain should be the winner in my opinion in this race. And I would just take the Greatest show on Earth out completely, which is a movie that I think is fun and I understand it's spectacle and I understand why 6 year old Steven Spielberg would have his life changed forever by it. But for me it's kind of boring.

[A]

Singin in the Rain was obviously top of my best picture nominee snub list. One of my favorite movies. But I will say, because it's perceived, I think at retroactive history that Singin in the Rain wasn't really even in the mix because An American in Paris had won several years before. You know, another Stanley Donen Gene Kelly musical Fantasia. I think An American in Paris gets a bad rap. That's all I have to say.

[C]

It's okay.

[A]

It's amazing. We watched it again recently, like, oh, I'm sorry. Like you're against the Gershwins all of a sudden.

[C]

It's good.

[A]

Dean's like setting up his studio and doing his ballet with the knee. It's very special.

[B]

It's got an incredible dance set piece and that's. But I don't know that it's a movie.

[E]

I'm so.

[A]

It's beautiful.

[E]

Excited for when Nox transitions fully into like full blown Star wars and you're in here next year with your eyes bugging out of your head being like, the thing is about Rogue One that nobody understands is that Gilroy only shot the interiors.

[D]

That's the journey I've been on as a parent. Amanda, I'll help you out. I'll give you some notes.

[A]

I just need you to come over and find all the other pieces of the Mandalorian's ship. Also, what is his name? Can anyone tell me?

[C]

Jin Din Djin Dijon?

[B]

What?

[A]

What?

[B]

Okay, just listen to me.

[A]

Dinjari Din Djarin Din Din D I N J. So I just want silent.

[B]

So it's a silent D, J, A.

[C]

R, E. What's the sort of sociological backstory there? Like the silent.

[E]

You got an hour and a half to.

[B]

Cuz it's going to take a minute. You want to. We're doing this draft and you want.

[D]

To talk about who's picked his draft.

[C]

I kind of do. I kind of do because. Because as I told Chris last night, replaced by Bedtime Stories has been the Star wars encyclopedia with Alice where she's just like, please just read me these entries. But I have been pronouncing the hard D at the end of Din Djarin.

[E]

She's Din Djarin.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Din Djarin Yeah.

[A]

This is like when my husband told my son that the ballet move Tendu is pronounced tendis, which is just. No, that's not. Yeah, it's.

[D]

We've been arguing about ATATs versus ATATs in my house. I don't know if anyone wants to do 10 minutes.

[E]

Oh, I screw that up this day.

[D]

What is it?

[C]

What's the answer?

[E]

I think it's. I thought it was at ats, but apparently it's atat.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

All right.

[D]

My nine year old is right.

[B]

The host of the.

[E]

So much cooler to call it.

[A]

I know, but like. Yeah, but like what?

[C]

God has spoken.

[B]

Show me.

[A]

What are the footnotes? Show me the work.

[B]

I'll send you some. Some you.

[E]

So you had. Which one you Singing in the Rain.

[C]

For best picture nominee snub, 20th century, 1952. Okay. That means is it CR's turn?

[E]

It's my turn. Gonna stay in that same category of best picture, snub. I did not pick that before. And I am going to take 2001 A Space Odyssey. In 1969, Oliver was the winner. The other nominees were Funny Girl, lion in Winter, Rachel. Rachel. And Romeo and Juliet.

[D]

Wait, 68, right?

[B]

Not 69.

[E]

68, sorry. 69 Oscars, 68 movie year. Oliver won 2001. Space Odyssey actually predicts how this world is going to end, which will happen in about nine weeks. It is probably never been topped as a piece of science fiction. They showed it in temples. It changed filmmaking forever. Kubrick criminally overlooked by the.

[C]

I had this in director.

[A]

I did as well. I just deleted it as a director option.

[B]

But both. I had it for both.

[A]

Don't say anything rude about the lion in Winter.

[E]

I wasn't going to. I was going to say of all the nominees, the only one I still have time for is lion in Winter.

[A]

As if it matters how a man should die. Or fall. Yeah, when the fall is all that's left.

[E]

Is that a matter Very much? Yeah, it is.

[C]

Have you seen Rachel? Rachel, Paul Newman's directorial debut directing Joanne Woodward?

[E]

No.

[C]

It's a good movie.

[E]

Is it as good as 2001 A Space Odyssey?

[C]

No, it's not. But make some time for it.

[A]

I want a clip of that.

[C]

Something to think about.

[E]

That's what the Oscars should be about.

[A]

Hey, make some time for this.

[E]

You know, not. Let's celebrate the fact that this guy saw way into the future.

[C]

Wait, what?

[E]

Did you.

[C]

Did you take Oliver out? What are you taking? You're taking Oliver?

[D]

I was raised by Oliver.

[A]

That's tough.

[C]

That's Oliver's bad. Come on. I'm like the number one Carol Reed fan in the universe. That's not a good movie, I don't think.

[B]

No, that's a great movie.

[C]

Okay, so now it's Amanda's turn.

[A]

Yes. Okay. We already talked about it. I just gotta go to 92. And in best Actor Winter Snub, I do need to take Denzel Washington for Malcolm X, which I think is one of the other great insanities. And if I'm doing my list of the greatest screen performances ever, it's probably. It's Pacino. Not Innocent of a Woman, which he wins for, but in Godfather 2 and then this movie was incredible. I don't even think I need to take away the Training Day Oscar. I mean, Denzel can have as many as he wants.

[C]

He wouldn't have won it though, I don't think.

[A]

Yeah, that's fine. You can do whatever you want. This is a very pure. This is an amazing film and an incredible performance. And not the announcement because he's obviously already won an Oscar. But you watch Denzel in Malcolm X and you're like, that's one of our Alzheimer's. Like, this is a forever actor and you just want an Oscar to go for that announcement. So, you know, like take it from Pacino. If we've already done Katie's work and he already has an Oscar. Yeah, we fixed the scene.

[B]

Oh, we're allowed to do that?

[A]

Yeah. So then we can take it from.

[D]

We're creating an alternate universe here.

[C]

I think it's very similar to what you were describing about an American in Paris where it was like he had just won for Glory and even though it was a Titanic performance, Pacino had zero Oscars and they just like they were doing math on the table. They were like, so we're gonna let this go and not give whatever 55 year old Al Pacino an Academy Award and give 32 year old Denzel Washington his second Academy Award. It does happen sometimes.

[E]

It could happen this year, right? I mean, the reverse of it could happen this year. If they give it to Chalamet.

[C]

If they give it to Chalamet, it would be like giving Denzel the Oscar the that he deserved. But those are two pretty critical.

[E]

Can I ask just a general question is did you find yourself with the actor snubs picking more often? Cause we were allowed to pick nominated performances or even unnominated performances. Would you say you were largely drawing from nominated or unnominated?

[A]

I have one unnominated here and the rest are just Miscarriages of justice for my favorite actors.

[D]

It's hard to remember unnominated like that. Research is tricky to go back and remember who was in the mix. I had one actor. One I was really passionate about and maybe should have picked, but I'll get.

[B]

To that at the end.

[C]

Okay, Joanna?

[B]

Okay. Great stuff for me.

[A]

You get two.

[B]

I do get two. So I would like. I don't know if you've ever heard of this director, but his name is Alfred Hitchcock. I think that's how you pronounce it. He doesn't have an Oscar for directing.

[C]

He doesn't.

[B]

And I would like to give him one. And I'm gonna do it for what does the most damage.

[C]

That can't be how you think about it.

[B]

I'm kidding.

[C]

I can't just give it to Lifeboat because it kills somebody's.

[B]

I can pick Rear Window. I could pick Rebecca. I could pick. Pick Spellbound. Or I could pick Psycho.

[D]

Or you could pick something he wasn't nominated for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I. I could, but I. Those were the ones that I wrote down. So.

[C]

Not Vertigo.

[B]

Not. Not for me, but Too Woke to San Francisco. Really bad portrayal of San Francisco, obviously. Or is it 1958? There's another director that I was thinking of putting in 1958, but I don't have to. So I am going to do. This is tough for me. Do you guys want to vamp Now?

[D]

I'm looking at 1958. Trying to guess.

[A]

You've listed one that I don't even. There's one more that you haven't even listed, though. I don't actually.

[E]

Oh, interesting. I don't.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

I don't know.

[C]

I think his two greatest achievements are Rebecca and North by Northwest. They're not my favorite films of his, but in terms of what he is going for in those movies, I think he absolutely nails them and that, you.

[B]

Know, I'm not trying to be swayed by you, but 1940 does do the most damage.

[A]

It does.

[C]

It's a good one.

[B]

So.

[D]

And I take 1940 off and Rebecca wins Best Picture, so it kind of makes sense for them to match.

[C]

I agree. So what? Who won the director that year? Actually the 13th.

[D]

John Ford for the Grapes of Raph.

[E]

Not bad.

[C]

Good win.

[D]

He's made some rubies.

[A]

I'm proud of him. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But I feel okay with this Hitchcock.

[E]

Rebecca over John Ford. Grapes of Wrath.

[B]

Yes.

[F]

Wow.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

There are other Don Ford movies I would have a harder time making a case against, but me too, you know.

[C]

Interesting pick.

[A]

I like that. That's tough. I'm deleting his Girl Friday. Yeah, yeah. It's okay.

[E]

Greg Tolan lost his mind. Was it Greg Tolan did Grapes Wrath.

[C]

He did. He did. He did. What did I just watch? That came out that same year.

[D]

It was Greg Tolan.

[C]

Greg Tolan did, I think three movies in 1940.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Shoot.

[D]

I'm gonna look at.

[C]

Please vamp. All I look at.

[A]

Hang on.

[D]

I'm on his Wikipedia page.

[A]

I mean, 1940 was fairly stacked.

[C]

It was a good year. Yeah, it's a great year.

[A]

And it's still also when there are 10 nominees, right? Yeah. When did they switch from 10 to five the first time?

[D]

Oh, God, so many Wikipedia tabs are open.

[A]

I know.

[C]

Oh, well, you know what it was. I actually just. I watched his. I watched the 1939 Wuthering Heights. Let's just. Let's just talk. Greg Tollen. One second.

[A]

Okay, sure.

[C]

The cinematographer.

[B]

I actually love that. Wuthering Heights.

[C]

Very good.

[B]

Even though I'm only a dad half the book.

[C]

Well, just like Emerald Fennell.

[E]

What happens in the other half?

[B]

Torture. Animal torture.

[C]

It's a lot more intense stuff that shifts away from.

[A]

You're like Heathcliff.

[C]

So Greg Tolan from 1939 to 1941 goes intermezzo. Wuthering Heights, Raffles. They shall have Music. The Grapes of Wrath, the Long Voyage Home, the Westerner, the Outlaw, Citizen Kane, the Little Foxes, Ball of Fire. That's 11 movies in three years, four of which were best Picture nominees and among the most important movies of all time. Just putting that out there. That was good.

[B]

Including the Little Foxes. Just kidding. But I love that movie.

[C]

That's not a bad movie.

[B]

That's a great movie.

[D]

He got Oscars.

[B]

Well, it's a play, but it's a great movie.

[C]

Okay, so you have one more pick.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Damn. Hitchcock zagged.

[D]

Greg Tillen won Weathering.

[E]

Hitchcock entirely is off the board.

[B]

Hitchcock's done.

[C]

Yes. If you haven't seen At Wuthering Heights.

[E]

I recommend it as a director. And then also all his films are off the board.

[D]

No, I think you could still pick, like, north by Northwest. Wim.

[C]

Correct. The movies are available, but he is not available.

[B]

I have the opportunity to do the most ringer thing possible, but I don't really want to do that because it's not the. Okay, so here's. I actually have a qualifying question.

[C]

You also have a black screen background for my eyes.

[B]

We wear corrective lenses.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Good for you guys doing our best out here. The year 2000, can I pick? Yeah, exactly. Can I pick in the Mood for Love. There was a question about eligibility that year.

[C]

I don't know. And I think we should look that up.

[D]

Let's go.

[B]

That was my one question.

[D]

I have always thought of it as a 2000 movie.

[B]

Is there a. We ran into this on the 2000 movie draft.

[C]

It was released in the United States in 2001, and that's historically what we use for drafts. We typically go by the US release date. Now, did it play. It played. Can 2000, which I think would have made it eligible for the Academy Awards.

[D]

If it had been submitted. An international feature.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[D]

Was it submitted or was it.

[B]

It was not chosen. Got it. It was submitted but not nominated. Sorry. I should say.

[D]

Oh.

[C]

So in that case, I say yes. I say it's the 2000 film.

[D]

It would have been like a City of God situation which got submitted international and then gets nominated, like, the next year.

[C]

Did it get submitted in the original year of its release?

[D]

I think so. I know there's something wonky going on.

[C]

We're in dorktown now. This is really.

[D]

But also, 2001 is still the board.

[A]

I think this is flexing it a little bit, but I don't. I don't mind.

[B]

Can I take.

[A]

We're. We're massaging it slightly, but if we want to.

[C]

What year?

[E]

So that would be for 2000.

[B]

I'm taking in the Mood for Love. For best picture nomination. Snub. 21st century. We said 2000 was 21st century.

[C]

We did.

[B]

Last night when I texted you.

[C]

Yes, I. We agreed. Does everyone agree to that?

[E]

Sure.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Intriguing. You're zagging all over the place.

[B]

I'm trying to spread.

[C]

I appreciate it. It's nice. No chalk for you. All right, Amanda, you've got another pick.

[A]

I do, and I'm trying to figure out what I wanted.

[C]

This is a game theory here. This is it. This is what it's all about, you know?

[B]

Is this revenge for the fantasy football draft that you absolutely lost your marbles over?

[E]

Do you think you'll ever be able to draft again in a. Where you are not the commish?

[A]

It's. It's.

[B]

He did a good draft for this.

[C]

I did do that, and I happily. And I enjoyed it and won again, of course.

[E]

Slightly more pressure, though. Yeah, I did come.

[A]

Alec.

[C]

The problem with that draft was that the rules were not just poor, but poorly communicated. That's not something I'm interested in. What I want is. I want it all on the table. I want us all to be able to communicate with look each other in the eye and say, I agree. You know, and that didn't happen last time. You were there. No, you weren't there.

[E]

I wasn't there, but I almost won.

[C]

I was the only one in the table. You did almost win.

[B]

Almost.

[C]

Thanks to Tay Frazier.

[A]

Can you hold on? You. He did Goodfellas. Yes, in picture winner snub.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

But did Scorsese get an Oscar for the. Was he. He wasn't. So he's still available.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In director winner snub.

[F]

Right?

[E]

Yes, but not for good fun.

[A]

But not for Goodfellas.

[D]

But this is like Hitchcock. You gotta choose Scorsese.

[B]

Snub.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But not for Goodfellas. But then he, like, did get one, so I'm kind of like, do I wanna.

[D]

Yeah, but do you want to get him one earlier so it doesn't have to be the Departed?

[A]

No, that's true. But, like, I don't.

[B]

I don't know, shouldn't it be the Departing?

[C]

That's why I got really into the what ifs, because I'm like, if you're going to take it away from somebody who eventually gets one, there's got to be at least a domino effect that is appealing.

[A]

Right. And I don't really. I don't have that. So instead I. Hold on. I'm. I think I'm going to just. I'm going to do my Passions. This is what I'm going to do. And I think in 2014, best director, I will take Wes Anderson for Grand Boud. Pest Hotel.

[E]

Nice.

[C]

Good one.

[D]

Sorry. To Ray Fine. Sorry.

[B]

I screwed my Ray Fine.

[A]

Yeah, sorry. Well, I had Ray Fines in my bigger splash, but, you know, someone went crazy.

[B]

Also. Also my Jake Gyllenhaal Nightcrawler Justice.

[A]

So, I mean, Wes Anderson has a. A short film.

[D]

Sure does. Now he does.

[A]

Like, okay, whatever. He's one of.

[E]

Wait. Oh, yeah, that's right. And Fox wasn't animated. That wasn't.

[D]

He didn't win.

[A]

Yeah, it's that. That's a great film. We even watched that in my house. But one of our signature. The signature filmmakers of our generation doesn't have an Oscar yet. Yet.

[B]

Well, I also don't think he's making his best.

[A]

Well, he has a short.

[C]

I think the interest is kind of waning in his Oscar, which is sad.

[A]

Even though I think Asteroid City is just like, gobsmacking. But I think, you know, Grand Budapest was. Is one of my favorites of his films. Was like a huge box office success.

[C]

And it was the coronation moment that kind of just passed by him and.

[D]

We thought it was going to lead to more. And instead of that was it Right.

[B]

And then peak. Yeah.

[A]

So they. This year was the Oscars of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm also taking it away from Inaritu for Birdman. So that's fine.

[D]

He wins another one literally the next year.

[C]

Yeah. The thing I had Leo winning for Wolf of Wall street here, and then that sets off another little chain reaction where Wolf of Wall Street, Damon can then win for the Martian. Was it Wolf?

[D]

Wolf of Wall Street's 2013. That's still 13.

[A]

I take it back.

[C]

I take it back.

[D]

Hold your fire.

[C]

Take it back. Okay, so, Chris, you're up.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Follow a question about wildcard. The year off the board still counts for wild card.

[C]

It does, yes.

[B]

I'm sorry, Jake Gyllenhaal. I really did try to give you.

[C]

The same rules apply.

[E]

So let's just make sure I know what I got here. So far. I have 2001 in best pictures. Snub 20th. I do not have a 21st. I have best picture winner. I took Goodfellas was pretty good.

[F]

All right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Good board going.

[E]

God darn it. I think what I'm gonna do is.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

Actress.

[A]

Believe in yourself. Oh, Actress.

[C]

Good.

[E]

Winter Snow.

[D]

We haven't done one yet.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

This will be the first time you talk about a woman on this 1950.

[E]

I'll take Bette Davis for All About Eve.

[A]

Wow.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

One of the all time top, tough best actress.

[A]

That's good.

[E]

Judy Holiday won for Born Yesterday.

[B]

She's great.

[C]

Good win.

[E]

Gloria Swanson right there for Sunset.

[A]

Tough one.

[E]

I just. Betty Davis and All About Eve is one of like my five favorite performances ever, probably.

[B]

I love knowing that.

[E]

Let's put it in build terms. Top nine performances from the 50s.

[A]

Very cr.

[F]

Cuted.

[E]

So. Yeah, I'll do that. I don't. I did not. I admit, I did not do Bette Davis Oscar research. So I don't know if this changes the trajectory of her awards cabinet or mantelpiece.

[D]

That would have been a. She had already won Oscars.

[C]

She had already won twice, I think by this point.

[E]

You know what? Three's a charm.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She deserves it.

[A]

So that's.

[E]

I'll. I'll do Bette Davis.

[C]

I think it would have been reasonable for her to be in the class of like Katharine hepburn and Frances McDormand of the three time winners. So that's a. That's an interesting pick, Chris.

[E]

Thanks, Sean.

[C]

Nice, Nice stuff.

[D]

I had Gloria Swanson on mine, but, you know, it's. It's a tough call.

[C]

She was nominated 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11 times. Every time in best actress, Never in supporting. That's how you do it.

[B]

That was a tough. Because in best actor and best Actress, we're talking lead performance. Right. We're not doing supporting wild cards.

[C]

Supporting could go into wild.

[B]

Yeah, because there were just, like, a few.

[E]

I had one. An actor that I'm like. I'm not sure.

[B]

Well, there's just, like a few actors who don't have Oscars where they're actually. They're all supporting guys and gals, and it was tough. Sorry, what year was 1950? Thank you.

[C]

I'm loving this. We're going all the way back. This is really good. I am going to go back to the 21st century, though, and I'm going to get into best picture nominee snub. 21st century, and I've got a lot of options here.

[A]

Okay. Yeah. Are you going to go? Are you going to go? Are you going to go for the crowd? Are you going to go with your heart? Are you gonna be interesting? Are you gonna be interesting?

[E]

Normie, just pick John Wick Ford.

[C]

I went super Normie with throwback over Crash. Right. That was like.

[A]

That was the start.

[B]

It had to be done.

[C]

And there are a few more super Normie, I think subs. I'm not doing that. I'm going 2012, which is one of the worst collections of Oscar nominees ever in this category, in my opinion. And I'm going put the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo in. Whoa.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You can take out any one of the following. The Artist, Extremely Loud and Incredibly close.

[D]

Oh, that's 11.

[C]

Hang on.

[D]

You're on 2011.

[C]

Sorry, 11.

[A]

You're 2011.

[C]

Sorry, 2011.

[A]

I had an even better option for 2011 here.

[B]

Was it Michael's Bender and Shame?

[A]

No, it was obviously melancholia, but whatever.

[D]

I love 2012. I was so mad at you. 2011 sucks. You're right.

[C]

Yeah. This is the whole slate of that year. The Artist which won the Descendants, Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. The Hell Hugo, Midnight in Paris, Moneyball, the Tree of Life, and Warhorse.

[B]

Yeah, really bad.

[C]

It was really three and a half good nominees there.

[E]

I mean, that's Moneyball and Warhorse.

[C]

I like Hugo Banger.

[A]

Yeah. We have to call my dad. My dad has been angry about Warhorse for a decade.

[C]

The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. More and more, we're learning every day. Masterpiece. We're seeing increasingly.

[E]

We're getting closer to Stanley and closer to Fincher, and that's what we have to acknowledge.

[C]

Also a film that I think really saw the future in terms of how people are treated and how the Internet is used. Honestly, quite insightful.

[E]

I was telling Sean. Did you guys know Eyes Wide Shuts in the top 30 of Apple movies right now?

[B]

Cool.

[E]

Wonder why.

[C]

Yeah, I shared this with Chris and Bill and I'm just going to share it on the show because Chris sent that to us last night and then.

[E]

I did Brian Windhorst fingers.

[C]

Yes. At 8:49pm so at 8:04am, I received a text message from my 20 year old nephew who said, hey, Uncle Sean, it's Gavin. I just watched Eyes Wide Shut and I was wondering what your opinion on the movie was. And I was a little confused on the main message as well.

[B]

This is so sweet.

[C]

First of all, Gavin, my dude, I love Gavin. I told Gavin, I was like, look, buddy, I'll just call you this weekend and talk about it. We're not gonna text him.

[E]

What are like some of the, like Eyes Wide Shut docs we could find on YouTube?

[C]

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, Funny.

[D]

How many podcast hours?

[C]

Okay, so that's my pick. Which means, Katie, you've got two picks.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay. All right, so I had a picture nom with you. The right thing. But I haven't done a win yet because that's a separate thing. And I do feel a little crazy that we have not yet talked about what I think is one of the all time famous. It didn't even win Best Picture Movie. I'm going with 1941 and Citizen Kane.

[E]

Yes, you've heard of that one.

[B]

That was.

[E]

Yes, I screwed up.

[A]

No, I know. I'm now deleting the Lady Eve, so that's sad.

[B]

I also had the lady.

[A]

Yeah. Not even nominated.

[D]

What are we doing?

[B]

Barbara Stanwyck. Yeah. If I couldn't get Hitchcock, I was gonna go for Wells.

[D]

Yeah. I also had Wells, an actor. If I hadn't gone that way because he loses to Gary Cooper, who then wins later, and then you could fix some history there. But it's not the acting. Like Susan Cain is Orson Welles and his vision and the wunderkind and Greg Toland, our man Back again, didn't even win for it.

[C]

Crazy.

[D]

Crazy. And it was nominated and lost to How Green Was My Valley, which is a movie I haven't seen.

[B]

It's very sweet.

[D]

This is what I always hear.

[B]

It's very.

[C]

It's really good.

[D]

And a lot of times you'll go back and watch those movies from the 40s. And you're like, oh, I thought this was gonna be boring. And it's great. I am sure it's right there. But I think we can all agree that putting Citizen Kane in there is the right thing. That should have happened.

[B]

I really agree. Yeah.

[D]

Okay, so we got the 40. We got 41. And now I'm gonna zag way back up and go into best actress in 2004. And I think that if we had just given Kate Winslet her Oscar for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind instead of Hilary swings 2003. Do I have 2000? Do I have it wrong?

[C]

No, I did it again. Same thing.

[D]

I have 04.04.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Eternals. Oh, it is.

[D]

Okay. No, I think you got in my head about the history fixing thing.

[C]

So, I mean, I think I have this exact. I'm curious how far you take this.

[D]

I didn't. Probably not as far as you. But even if without even doing that, give Kate Winslet, I'm obsessed with where this ends. I cannot wait to hear where this goes. But, like, even if you're not fixing history, that is a great performance. That is a movie that is incredibly meaningful to me and probably everyone within 10 years. Years of my age range. And she was someone.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And Kirsten Dunst is in it. So you have to know I really mean it. Okay. Anyway, also, this also means that I can't do my cute Best Picture nominee Snub, which was mean girls in 2004, which should have been nominated. The Academy doesn't recognize comedy 2004. That doesn't matter. It's not the. We did.

[C]

We talked about the spirit of, like, what could have happened.

[A]

Well, maybe we should. In addition to, you know, adjudicating wins, it should be that the Oscar, you know, Oscars recognized comedy.

[C]

Well, that can be your draft that you do on your podcast.

[D]

I mean, some comedy should make their way into this.

[A]

Fine. I'm sorry that you, Charlie Kaufman.

[D]

There is some comedy in Eternal Sunshine. There's funniness in there. Including Kate Winslet. It's one of her great performances. She had already given so many at this point. She was kind of obviously overdue. She then, of course, wins a couple years later for the Reader, a movie we all love and revere and watch constantly. So if you give it to her that year, Hilary Swank doesn't get her second Oscar for Million Dollar Baby. I think we can all live with it. The way I went with it is then. And I don't know that this really would have happened is that then Anne Hathaway can win for Rachel getting married in 08. And then after that she doesn't have to win supporting actress in 2012. Then Amy Adams can win for the Master and what's next after that?

[C]

That is a great outcome. I had a slightly different trajectory, so. So to me, I agree. I think Kate Winslet should have won that year. I love that movie. That clears the way for Meryl's third Oscar for Doubt, which I think is a better performance than the Iron lady and a better movie than the Iron lady, which means that clears the way for Glenn Close to finally be free and to have an Oscar for Albert Knobbs.

[B]

Albert Nobbs is written on this document.

[A]

In the year of our Large Waitress.

[E]

I'm waiting for Albert Knobbing.

[C]

Glenn Close to being for knobs. I just want her to be okay.

[B]

She's winning for Knobs is what he says.

[E]

She's in Murphy Land now. She's doing great.

[A]

And meanwhile, I think she is pained.

[C]

By the fact that she does not.

[A]

Have not even a nomination.

[B]

Albert Nob's also a comedy in its own right, though, so, you know, I.

[D]

Feel like it wasn't terrible. I don't remember that much about Albert Noms.

[C]

Great. I would say, Katie, we're vibing. That's two actors. Really funny. Okay, now we're back to. Are we back to me? Me?

[E]

We're back to you, Yes.

[C]

I kind of want to do another one of those.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

A similarly minded one.

[A]

Maybe you could have been preparing for that instead of, you know, I am prepared. All right.

[C]

In fact, I'm ready to do it right now. Is 1973 still on the board? I think it is. Right?

[D]

All of the 70s are on the board. 74.

[B]

74 is off. Yeah.

[C]

This is a bit of a rewriting history piece. Pick. Glenda Jackson won in 1973 for best actress for A Touch of Class. Show of hands, how many people here have seen A Touch of Class? Me and Joe. This was her second win in four years. And Glenda Jackson is a rare best actress two time winner who I would say most people born after 1980 are not familiar with and couldn't pick out of a shroud. And she does not have the same legacy as so many of our great actors and actresses. So here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take that second one away from Glenn. I'm going to give it to Ellen Burson for the Exorcist, which is an incredible performance. Now Ellen Burson does Win the following year for Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore. Also a very good performance. But then you get to do something similar that Katie did earlier, which is give the next Oscar to Faye Dunaway for Chinatown in 1974 as Evelyn Mulray, which then means Faye Dunaway doesn't have to win, and we can have Sissy Spacek win for Carrie in 1976, which means sissy Spacek doesn't have to win for Coal Miner's Daughter, which means we can give Mary Tyler Moore her Oscar for Ordinary People.

[D]

I like it.

[C]

And then Mary Tyler Moore doesn't have to not have an Oscar.

[E]

But let me ask you this.

[B]

But CC Spacek should have an Oscar.

[C]

She has one.

[D]

She gets one.

[A]

Yeah. Though I still like the Faye Dunaway network performance more than Chinatown.

[E]

Oh, I like Chinatown more than network.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

But it's just different strokes.

[A]

There you go.

[E]

Flaw in the iris. You know, how do you feel about the.

[B]

Is that the America Civil War reference?

[A]

No, it's in Chinatown.

[E]

She's flawing the iris.

[B]

That's so embarrassing for me.

[E]

How do you feel about the idea that, like, you win one now you're off the board? Like, would you want to live in a war?

[A]

You really seem to be gatekeeping these.

[C]

It's really how it works. I mean, it's really how voters think.

[B]

It's not how it works.

[D]

Not for gorgeous me.

[B]

It's not how it works, but I think it should be how it works.

[C]

You think there should be a rule.

[A]

I disagree.

[C]

I'm giving.

[A]

I'm gonna try to give more Oscars. No, I don't care.

[B]

No, I just don't care about.

[A]

Not even Strahd. I don't care about term. You know, in this.

[D]

It's not in this.

[A]

It's not in this draft case.

[B]

Only not in this draft. I just mean in life. I feel like there are too many actors who need an Oscar who don't have an Oscar. And then I. I do like that Katharine Hepburn has a whole cabinet full, but if she wanted to give a couple away to people who never got them, then I think that wealth is.

[D]

What you're advocating for.

[B]

I'm a socialist.

[C]

I think. I think when there's. When there's a lot of bunched wins, most of the time, people are kind of punished. You know, I actually think we've been talking about the Leo and Timmy thing this year, and I think even still, there's a little bit of, like, nah, he doesn't have to win quite yet again. And I think it doesn't always happen. Because the Glenda Jackson closed wins it out.

[E]

Emma Stone because I would say with the exception of the Patriots, you admire dominance in sports.

[C]

That's true. I like a dynasty and so it's.

[A]

Never rooted for one.

[E]

Taking Daniel Lewis off the board at My Left Foot or whatever.

[D]

You're just gonna let Lincoln sit there and go unacknowledged?

[C]

I'll tell you what, you're Lincoln. I reserve the right to choose whatever I want. And in some cases I'm like, just give DDL every option.

[E]

I think the historical game of if they win, then this happens. Because I think that this is an interesting thing. I won't give away what I think might be my pick.

[C]

But yeah, I thought it would be interesting to take Ordinary People bring it into the conversation a little bit too, because it's an interesting. Somebody may want to talk about it later on. But like that to me, that movie is very, very good and I really like it. We did a rewatchables on it. I think it's very accomplished. I think Mary Tyler Moore maybe the best thing in it.

[A]

She is.

[C]

And I really. That's like one of those wins that I always thought should have happened. Even though Sissy Spacek is wonderful in Coal Miners Daughter. Sometimes there's just two deserving winners and somebody has to choose. And this would be a way to kind of alleviate that.

[A]

Can we look at the supporting category in that year? Because couldn't you make the argument for Mary Tyler more in supporting? You could in In Ordinary People. I mean, and it is like. It is one of those supporting performances that the entire movie hinges on.

[C]

I. Tim Hutton won for supporting that year, but he's really the lead of the movie.

[D]

Now you're taking away Mary Steenburgen's Oscar from Melvin Howard.

[A]

I mean, I do like Mary Steenbergen.

[B]

Melvin and Howard is one of those like doesn't exist. I mean, I've seen it, but like a movie that doesn't add a print twice.

[A]

Anyway, that's how I personally would fix it. Because I don't care about category fraud.

[C]

I own it.

[A]

Of course, I believe in the sanctity of American elections and not as.

[B]

I just.

[A]

I do think that's clear down to camera.

[D]

I want to be clear about the stakes at play. I think it is okay to not care.

[E]

You don't think we've had enough elections?

[C]

More. Yeah. Speaking of, you have to elect your next pick.

[E]

Well, okay, so I'm going to pick a best actor winner. Snub. And I'm undecided at the moment while I vamp between going into an area that I've already drafted. You know what I'm just going to do? Actually follow your heart.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

19 door heart.

[A]

Follow your heart.

[E]

1998. Still on the board?

[A]

I think so.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[E]

Jeff Bridges is the dude in Big Lebowski.

[A]

Oh, I like this.

[C]

Good. Really good. Really good pick.

[E]

The Academy does not understand the Cohen for the majority of their. Their peak, their prime. They finally get one for no country. But their inability to understand the Cohen and their, like, rewarding Roberto Benini for an irreverent comic performance. Tragic comic performance.

[C]

While, like, Bridges dumb and dumber. Yeah.

[E]

While Bridges just, like, languishes in being one of the most iconic characters in my lifetime with the dude is a travesty. Is a snub of all snubs.

[C]

I like that pick.

[B]

Does he then not win for Crazy Hearts?

[E]

If we exist in the one and done world, yes. And I'd be fine with that.

[C]

I think Crazy Hearts, we feel Jeff Bridges rises to the level of Deserves to. I would say maybe, yes. I don't know.

[D]

The crazy heart gets its engine.

[C]

I agree.

[D]

I think maybe Clooney wins that year, which wouldn't have been.

[E]

That was Syriana up in the Air.

[C]

Up in the Air.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

That's the wins for Syriana.

[C]

You're probably right.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

And Clooney already won for Syriana by that point.

[D]

He won supporting actor for Syriana, right? Yeah.

[E]

Before up in the air.

[C]

Yeah. It's like 0504.

[E]

In your new history where people come off the board after winning once, can they win for a different category?

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I want to control space and time, obviously. So this is a new history that we are writing. Call me Howard Zinn. Yeah, I, I. So I had this as well, but I just said, let's just let Tom Hanks have three. So that kind of goes to your dynasty point, because then it could have been Tom Hanks and Saving Private Ryan that year.

[E]

And that which is just like that Benini, Philadelphia is so terrible.

[C]

It's the beginning of the awfulness.

[E]

Yeah. Okay.

[D]

Also rip to Jim Carrey and Truman Joe, who I had on my knees.

[C]

That would have been a good one too. That would have been a really good one.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Is it me?

[C]

It's you.

[A]

It's my turn. Okay, great. I'm gonna do the obvious thing because it's still here. And this is me fixing my. This is me fixing history the way that I want to. In 2008 in Best Picture Nominee Snub. I will take the Dark Knight. And then. And then we just fix it. Okay. Like, and then I just don't have to hear about it anymore.

[E]

Batman, Mommy rises.

[A]

Please, please stop believing that interstellar is so good. Okay? Like, please.

[C]

I don't think a Best Picture win would have alleviated.

[A]

I know, but, like, maybe then I don't have to hear about the third act of Oppenheimer so much. Like, I just, like, stop the madness. Stop it.

[D]

You think this is enough?

[A]

Are you now becoming old him?

[E]

Auntie Nolan?

[A]

I like Inception.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

I love Tenet. It's cool. I like it.

[B]

I love Tenet. We hate Interstellar.

[A]

And I really thought that he was very charming at the DGAs when I went. Also, he walked out to cast Cashmere, which is very funny, and he said.

[D]

Oh, that was a little dramatic.

[A]

He was a little confused by it. But I just like, the.

[C]

The.

[A]

The snub of the Dark Knight in 2008 created, like, mass hysteria among Nolan fans and among Oscar, like, voters and how we put the Academy.

[E]

Have you guys talked about whether you'd go back Pre Dark Night 5?

[C]

Just, there's.

[E]

There's a smaller. Smaller field for Best Picture.

[C]

Do I do, like, right now? Should we go back to five? We have talked about it in the past on, like, there are some years where it feels more appropriate. I always thought the variable year was a little bit more fun where you could have gotten eight or nine, because that indicated, like, a real strength. That being said, I kind of. I also kind of like when a movie, like, F1 kind of sneaks in at the end, too.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So we almost certainly went nine this year. If that had been an option, it.

[C]

Would have been nine.

[A]

Top Gun, Maverick got nominated. You know, like, I like that we make room for blockbusters. I just.

[D]

It.

[C]

You're making room for one right here.

[A]

It just comes with such psychosis that, like, if we could just.

[E]

Do you feel like if we go back and we give Dark Knight Best Director or best Picture.

[A]

He said best Picture. Nominee.

[E]

Nominee.

[A]

Nomination.

[E]

Nomination.

[C]

Let me ask you a question related to this.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Do you think if this happens, that the. The way in which comic book films are made and the kinds of comic book movies we get are any different? If Dark Knight is nominated for best.

[B]

Picture, I do not think. Not that it would have saved us from the sort of, like, explosion of comic book movies, but I think the sort of, like, let's take this more seriously would have happened even earlier than it did. Do you know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah, that's sort of what I'm thinking is like, do you get a Black Panther earlier?

[B]

You know, because you're like, that's exactly.

[C]

What I was thinking, you know.

[B]

Yeah, I think you do.

[D]

But the Dark Knight made so much money, which is the real incentive for all this, right?

[B]

It is, but it isn't because they also want, you know, marvel at a certain point starts chasing. They want that shrine.

[D]

Takes them too long to chase Oscars and it wouldn't have as long.

[C]

Yeah. I just saw Kevin Feige last week. Talked about how happy he was that Sinners was being recognized so much. Obviously he's got some skin in the game with having worked with Coogler for years. But also he was like, it doesn't always happen that the Academy recognizes what real moviegoers really enjoy. And I was like, all right, buddy, you know, set her down. I'm sorry that, you know, Thunder didn't get into best Picture that year.

[A]

I will also say the first hour and a half of the Dark Knight unlike anything I've ever seen. Absolutely rips. Incredible stuff.

[E]

You didn't like it when it started focusing on Maggie Gyllenhaal.

[B]

Rachel Dawes, baby.

[A]

She's the assistant dear recast from.

[B]

Yeah. You were like, I miss Katie.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

If you could, could. If you could. Rachel Dawes or Joker, who would you. Cuz that's sort of what Batman has to do.

[E]

Honestly. Honestly. The Joker.

[C]

This is Joker.

[B]

Not Wa's Joker. He's Joker.

[A]

Jarrett's Joker.

[C]

He is not Caesar.

[B]

There it is.

[E]

That's just getting a erased. We're not doing Joker in Matt Reeves's movies.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

Are we doing Matt Reeves's movies?

[A]

What is he called me Is the.

[B]

Very question you should ask himself.

[A]

Finished the script. He was giving me updates.

[D]

Barry Feigen to the Pattinson one. Is that. Yeah, that movie came out like eight.

[B]

Years ago and was amazing.

[E]

And now he's Ringo, so he's pretty busy.

[C]

Nice. Nice work. You have a pick? Fuck.

[E]

Do I? I just picked.

[C]

I thought it was. I think we picked out of order. No, Joanna has two back to back right now.

[A]

That's what it is.

[B]

And then me again.

[C]

Oh, we're going back that way.

[D]

My bad, my bad.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All right.

[B]

This is really tough. You know, sometimes you have to take an Oscar away from someone you do think deserves it. And I just frantically skipped around trying to find another place to give it to him, but I can't. So I'm so sorry to late.

[D]

Great.

[B]

William Hurt. You no longer have An Oscar. And I am giving it to Harrison Ford. And Witness.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

This was 1985.

[D]

Was one of mine.

[C]

Good one.

[B]

And I was trying, like, Kiss of Spider Woman.

[C]

Is that what you want?

[B]

It's kissing Spider Woman, which is not what he should have won for. But I couldn't find a win. Like you're taking one from John Connery or taking like. I could not.

[A]

This is where I was Paul Newman.

[B]

There are, like, so many corners where I was like, ah, that's Paul Newman's.

[A]

Ah, that's Sean Connery.

[B]

So William Hurt. You get no Oscar. But Harrison Ford has one for Witness, which he deserves.

[A]

He does.

[C]

I did take one of something I was leaning towards, which was Sidney Pollock winning for out of Africa over Akira Kurosawa for Ron.

[B]

Yeah, there's a lot of other Kurosawa years.

[D]

Yeah, that's how you did it.

[A]

I mean, 85 was tough.

[C]

Tough year.

[A]

A target rich year. Also in this.

[C]

That's the weirdest year ever. Because out of Africa dominates. But Meryl Streep doesn't win.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Because she had just won. Two pretty close together hasn't stopped them before.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

Okay, another for Joe. One more for Joanna.

[B]

I knew I could wait because this is a weirdly anti arrival podcast, but.

[A]

No, it's not.

[B]

We.

[A]

Excuse me. You're not up to date. That's fine. Do not listen to all of the big picture episodes.

[B]

I listen to a lot of volume.

[A]

You were trying to silence a woman.

[C]

On this episode very loud.

[B]

You weren't here when Rob and I were here. We were doing the whole Amy Adams filmography and Sean was just like, Arrival. What a piece of.

[A]

Listen to it.

[C]

I did not say that. How dare you?

[A]

It's beautiful.

[C]

I like it. It's good.

[B]

Amy Adams deserves an Oscar, as we.

[A]

All, I think, at this table. But I also don't agree. But that's okay.

[C]

You're going Amy Adams in Act.

[A]

But I really like Arrival.

[D]

Would you give Jeremy Renner an Oscar for Arrival? Who would you have picked?

[E]

I.

[A]

Probably Villeneuve.

[B]

Okay, okay, all right, fair enough.

[C]

So you're taking 16 off the board. Who won in 16?

[D]

Emma Stone.

[B]

And she gets one later. Yeah, she doesn't get it for La La Lynn.

[C]

I can't say I approve of that.

[D]

I am with you, Joanna. I really hoped you would pick this one. You're fixing the sci fi of the mid 2010s with Mad Max and Arrival.

[B]

You know what? Thank you so much.

[C]

Okay. All right, Amanda, we're back to you.

[A]

Yes. I have Another I'm gonna go old.

[B]

School.

[A]

Best Picture Nominee. Snub. 1938. Bringing up baby.

[B]

Hell yeah.

[E]

Hell yeah, girl.

[A]

I'm like, is it what?

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Hell yeah, girl. Rock, Emotion.

[C]

You go, girl.

[E]

Listen, baby.

[A]

Bringing Up Baby is. What were you gonna ask?

[E]

Nothing, go ahead.

[A]

I mean, it's. It kind of invents all of it. I mean, it is before Philadelphia Story, before his Girl Friday. It is like one of the signature screwball comedies of Hollywood. A perfect movie and, you know, still referenced in great films like Jurassic park, whatever. The most recent one was called Jurassic World.

[C]

Rebirth.

[A]

Rebirth, yeah. Jonathan Bailey doing his best American, you know, Natural History Museum.

[C]

Dog baby of a movie. Yeah. Sorry, bro.

[B]

And dog baby of a movie.

[E]

Why'd you say sorry, bro?

[C]

Cause you loved it. It's one of your favorite.

[E]

I thought it was fine.

[B]

Do you think Johnny Bailey's glasses in that movie was a nod? A nod to Cary Grant in his glasses?

[E]

Should we recap what happens in dress?

[C]

Should we re Rebirth?

[E]

What happened?

[D]

I've watched it over people's shoulders on a plane enough times in segments. I think I've got it. Like, I think I figured out the plot without ever hearing it.

[C]

You don't need to hear anybody talking.

[D]

I think I'm good.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

Not a lot of good talking in the movie. Something you'd like to improve on in films going forward.

[E]

Did Steven kept write that?

[C]

He did, yeah, he did.

[B]

That's why when we're like David Koepp, it's a mixed bag.

[C]

You never know. Yeah, you really never know. Bringing a baby. Zero Oscar nominations.

[A]

Crazy.

[C]

That's pretty wild.

[D]

Harry Grant.

[B]

No, they took this for granted.

[D]

They didn't know how good they had it.

[C]

This is a great quiz. I never would have been able to do well on this. How many best picture nominees from 1938. Can you name this table collectively?

[A]

I just looked at it, so I will excise myself from this.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

How many of them have I seen? Not that many.

[D]

Cause 39 is so iconic. And 38. I got 38.

[C]

There are 10 nominees.

[E]

Let's rattle them off so we can say where they're. We've seen them.

[C]

Well, you can't take it with you. So that's a capper win. The Adventures of Robin Hood, which is very good.

[D]

The Margaret Ortiz film.

[C]

Errol Flynn. Alexander's Ragtime Band.

[B]

I've seen it.

[C]

Haven't seen it. You've seen that. Nice. Boys Town. The Citadel, Four Daughters, Grand Illusion, of course. Renoir's masterpiece. Jezebel.

[B]

Great.

[C]

Very good. Film Pygmalion, pre My Fair lady, and Test Pilot, which I haven't seen.

[E]

I've seen Test Pilot.

[C]

Yeah. You're the star.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You wrote and directed and starred in Test Pilot and then converted 106 years old.

[B]

He is for Pilot.

[C]

I want to clarify something real quick, Joe, for Amy Adams, Arrival 2016. Did you put that in best Actress winner? Snub.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Does it matter that she was not nominated for.

[B]

No, we're allowed to go off.

[E]

Got it.

[C]

Just wanted to clarify.

[B]

Thank you for clarifying.

[C]

Okay, now we're up to Chris.

[E]

Okay. Yeah.

[C]

Yes.

[E]

I'm gonna go in best director.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

I think I have this right. And I'm gonna. I'm gonna play your little game, Sean, because if we give Peter Jackson best director for the Two Towers, which is what he deserves it for.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

All right.

[E]

We can then give Peter Weir the master and commander Oscar that he deserves several years later.

[B]

I love this for you. This is my favorite thing.

[A]

Honestly, I would have taken Clinton, mystic.

[E]

River as the second choice in that category for. For the one that Return of the King won. Turn of the king ends 19 times, does not have helms.

[B]

That's a cumulative win.

[F]

That's.

[B]

Thanks for the trilogy.

[E]

And I'm like. I'm like, I'm out on that. You got to be judged on its merits. Should have won for Den. The Oscar for this one.

[C]

Right? So you said Return of the King is a 3 out of 10, but Two Towers is a 10 out of 10?

[E]

No, not 3, but it's like a.

[A]

I would say it's the worst one. What happens in Two Towers?

[C]

Interesting.

[A]

It's the worst deep.

[C]

I think you're right.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think it is the worst one, but I think if it ended just the first ending, I would feel differently. The trees went to the shire. I'm like, oh, yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Fellowship's the best part.

[A]

I heard. I know about the tree people.

[E]

Ents.

[C]

Not the AD. ATS. The ENTs.

[B]

Guys, I feel really good about my influence on this podcast today, so.

[C]

Yeah, I like.

[D]

So you're taking away Romans?

[C]

Definitely. We were going arm in arm.

[E]

Roman Polanski's Oscar. Obviously, you want.

[C]

You want to give him another one? You.

[E]

You want to give him one special Oscar's called the Romans.

[B]

You want to give him one this year?

[E]

No, I'm saying he just.

[A]

He loses just so that Ed Harris.

[B]

And baby Madigan cannot clap for him.

[E]

Wait, I thought they didn't clap.

[B]

For exam.

[D]

I was just saying, like, again, so I get that credit yeah.

[C]

Were there any other people who testified in front of of who act that you want to give Oscars to?

[E]

Oh, reverse the blacklist or. No.

[C]

Yeah. No. Just anybody who squealed.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

You know, no, I'm not.

[B]

I'm just trying to guess for squealers.

[C]

In front of Congress. Would you name names?

[E]

Yeah, name your names.

[B]

Eddie has. That was part of my like Chaplin research. Because Wright Chaplin doesn't have a directing Oscar.

[E]

Wait, Charlie Chaplin or like the movie Chaplin.

[B]

Charlie Chaplin.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Oona Chaplin. Una Chaplin, Ash. And that part of it was black blacklisting.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So part of it.

[C]

Okay, I'm up.

[E]

I do not like Joseph McCarthy, by the way.

[C]

You don't. You're not playing. You think he is elite. 1939.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Here we go.

[E]

Left it on.

[C]

Touchdown.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Big whiz.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm not going Big Wiz. The wizard of Oz.

[E]

You're not in the pocket of big Munchkin.

[C]

I. I truly am. I truly am. I. I was listening to the Munchkinland song with Alice and we were listening to it on Spotify with the lyrics on and I was like, what in the world?

[A]

It's really.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

When the children sit there and like, no, can we listen to that part again? And Lollipop Guild. I'm like, well, I don't know why you.

[C]

There's like a full blown autopsy transpiring during the song.

[E]

Listening.

[B]

Listen. Munchkins have corners.

[D]

It's a well running society.

[E]

When she is listening to the 2032 version of Lil P on the 2032 version of SoundCloud and I believe.

[B]

Wait isn't the official diagnosis. She's not only really dead, she's really most sincerely dead.

[C]

Really most sincerely dead.

[D]

That's a technical term.

[C]

No whiz here. 1939, Robert Donnett wins for Goodbye Mr. Chips. No, we're not. Come on, we're not doing that. That's not okay. Over Jimmy Stewart. And Mr. Smith goes to Washington. Now this also has some serious ramifications if you do this.

[D]

And you're also ignoring Clark Gable here.

[C]

For Gone with the Wind, which I would not. I would pick Jimmy Stewart in this category because I'm not racist. Mr. Smith goes to Washington. That leads to Jimmy Stewart winning for the Philadelphia Story, which means Henry Fonda doesn't win for the Grapes of Wrath, which means we have to wait for Henry Fonda to win in on Golden Pond, which is not a good win. And then we get to give Warren Beatty his acting Oscar because he never got one in Reds. So I'm giving Jimmy Stewart the 39 Oscar, and then everybody gets to be happy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I can't believe the grace of wrath came back.

[A]

Your head is kind of shaped like Jimmy Stewart's.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Just thinking out loud.

[C]

Screen legend, one of the most beloved figures in Hollywood history.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And what about my manner? Yeah.

[B]

I mean, more stammering.

[A]

You're more Jimmy than Cary Grant. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's not my thing. Okay. I feel good about that. Goodbye, Mr. Chips.

[B]

Seen it.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

So many of these movies are.

[A]

Who's next?

[B]

No. Sometimes you seem like you get to a goodbye, Mr. Chips, and you're just like this one.

[F]

This is.

[C]

That's exactly how I felt. Okay. Katie has two selections. How are you feeling about your draft?

[D]

I'm feeling good about my draft. I'm feeling a little, like, figuring out where to go next, which is, I.

[B]

Think, what's your spread right now? Like, what decades do you have on the board?

[D]

Oh, what a great question. I've got 1989, 1974, 1941, and 2004. I've done pretty well. And, you know, weirdly, I'm looking at 21st century picture snubs and having a harder time. Even though this is, like, I have been covering the Oscars in this period for such a long time.

[B]

Is this where we do challengers?

[D]

But I had the question of, like, is when we were talking about the realistic nature of it. Like, as hard I pushed that boulder up that hill for challengers and couldn't get there. Like, I don't think there was a world in which that was gonna be challengers. So, like, am I trying to take it more seriously?

[C]

I think there's one really good one.

[D]

Left in 21st century.

[C]

Yes.

[D]

Okay, this. I think I'm gonna get to that in a second. But I'm also looking at the fact that we have a big year left on the board. And I think I'm gonna go. You guys might be mad at the pick I'm gonna make here. I think I'm gonna go real zag. I'm going to 1999. Someone's got to do it eventually. I'm going in Best Director, and I'm going with the Wachowskis, who should have been nominated for the Matrix.

[C]

Hell, yes. Good.

[A]

That's really good. That's really good.

[D]

The 1990, 1990s is this famously awful Oscar year where, like, basically nothing that gets nominated or wins is what should be in there.

[B]

This is a real pro. Ripley oh, no reason this isn't my.

[D]

Ripley pick is because I already did picture nom. Like, I. I had some feelings.

[A]

I also had to. I mean, Damon wasn't even nominated for Talented Mr. Ripley, but that's like a real. That should be his Oscar, in my opinion.

[D]

I kind of figured one of you guys would take Ripley already and then.

[B]

I would have that.

[D]

But so I.

[C]

That's a good way to get into that. I mean, there are a lot of even nominee snubs there, like Eyes Wide Shut. Matrix and Ripley were not nominated for best picture.

[B]

Bizarre.

[C]

That's crazy.

[D]

You get Magnolia in there in a couple of categories, but not in picture. The screenplay winners, like, I clicked into this, like, would that the Cider House Rules won Best adapted Screenplay over election. The Insider and Ripley.

[B]

That was Weinstein.

[D]

Yeah, and the Green Miles in there too.

[C]

All credit to terrible Michael.

[B]

Michael.

[C]

Michael Caine win.

[D]

Oh, absolutely. I mean, there's. It's a real. It kind of rivals 2018, I think, in terms of like, this is what we gave you and this is what you came up with trying to win.

[B]

Trying to explain to, like, younger film fans of, like, the spell that the Weinstein machine cast and, you know, they're like, what do you mean? Cider House Rules really had to be there.

[C]

We all.

[B]

My dad used to quote it to us. Like, I don't know what to tell you.

[D]

We all said, I guess this is what we have to do. I mean, again, I mean, we can. No, we can't get to it because we. Not in Wild Card, but, like, original screenplay American Beauty wins over being John Malkovich. Magnolia, the Sixth Sense, Turvy, terrible. But, I mean, I just stick with the Wachowskis in terms of the Matrix. And when you think of, like, you picture 1999 in your head, great film year. But, like, the Matrix is right there. What they invented, what that movie did in terms of capturing the culture. You were talking about this, Joanna. When something becomes big and it gets people's attention and it's technical and innovative and the Oscars were just so not ready for it on any level. And now we can fix that. So that's my pick.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

So I guess I do have to do 21st century. And I'm curious. I think this is where I just kind of have to go with my heart. And, Joanna, you're gonna laugh at me. Cause this is something we talked about too many times. And going to 2018, an Oscar year where a lot of things got really messed up. And you might think, you know what I'M doing, but I'm going with first.

[B]

I knew from the second you opened your mouth and I almost.

[A]

When last night we were texting about.

[B]

Foxcatcher, I almost said, no, that's first dance that you're not allowed to talk about on podcasts anymore.

[D]

Well, you didn't, so I'm talking about it now. This is Damien Chazelle's follow up to La La Land. It is, I think, this gorgeous biopic that takes this idea of the great man and the great thing that he did. Let me cook. Of course, I also saw it at the Toronto Film Festival. I think I was pregnant and I'd been away from home for a week and I lost my mind. And I thought it was like the.

[A]

Most emotional thing I'd ever seen.

[D]

But 2018, again, that Oscar, that best picture lineup is not entirely trash. I mean, this is the year that Olivia Colman wins, so we have things that we can celebrate. But it's also the year of Bohemian Rhapsody and hang on, what else am I going to yell about?

[A]

I just deleted Bradley Cooper, A Star Is Born from my. And in director Soni Collette.

[D]

I thought as well, Vice gets into Best Picture. I don't even love Roma that much. Maybe we can yell about it. So I just. My heart is there with first man in 2018. With all due apologies to A Star Is Born, which I also love.

[E]

This is also a great example of a movie that is lost to recent history that may have had more eyeballs if it had gotten nominated. So this is actually how it did cinema. A disservice for not getting nominated.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Katie loves a dad movie and I love that movie.

[D]

I love a dad movie.

[E]

Saw this at Cinerama Dome. It was fucking awesome.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, Sean's shaking his head over there.

[C]

No, I just.

[D]

A bunch of boys, they were.

[A]

They were.

[D]

And they changed history, I think.

[C]

I think that it's a movie that people thought was like an old school Oscar movie, and it's actually more of a new school Oscar movie, but you couldn't tell because it was Chazelle and it was the space race and an astronaut, but it's really like a really quiet, interesting character study about a very sad person. And it doesn't really play the way that a lot of Oscar movies tend to play for that reason, but it's a great pick and a great movie.

[E]

It's your turn.

[C]

It's my turn.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I interviewed Shazelle with Bill during that press run, which is kind of fascinating. I think Shazelle was sitting in the room with both of us and he was. Was like, who am I supposed to be looking at here?

[D]

He was in such a weird spot after La La Land. He didn't really have a chance to.

[C]

Did you ever hear that interview? It's pretty funny.

[E]

I have.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

It's also just like the riding shotgun on a Bill interview is one of those like, am I. I'm disassociating so hard.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

We've both done it a few times. It's always interesting. Gosh. Well, I haven't done Best Director yet. I've done. I think I've done every other category. Do you? How many I have.

[A]

Besides Wild Card?

[C]

Besides Wild Card. I'm just going to do it. 1982. Richard Attenborough wins best director for Gandhi over Steven Spielberg for ET which is just. Just absolute nonsense. I think that win is also not a great win. But this is Steven Spielberg, another one of these people who just had to wait weirdly too long and has since been kind of properly recognized by the Academy. But that much longer. Eleven more years. Right.

[D]

He doesn't wait until Schindler's List.

[B]

But it's still like that's still so early in his career relatively. Right. There's so much after Schindler, I guess.

[C]

But think about everything he accomplished between Jaws and Schindler's List and the way that he basically remakes Hollywood in his image. And so it's always interested in me that he didn't win across that period of time. They sort of made him wait. And you know, the Attenborough win is obviously recognized as somebody who had been in Hollywood and in British filmmaking since the 1930s. You know, Gandhi's okay. I revisited it for the Daniel Day Lewis hall of Fame because he's in one scene and I think it's his first film performance and he's darn good in it. But Gandhi.

[A]

Are you gonna run it back for.

[B]

Your Candice Bergen hall of Fame or I might.

[E]

This is one of the great fuck ups. And best directing. And the person who should have won didn't even get nominated.

[C]

That's really Scott. Why was also taking Blade Runner.

[B]

Yeah, Blade Runner was also in this one.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

In case you were looking for.

[A]

And you took Paul Newman in the Verdict, which I still think is when.

[E]

He should have won.

[C]

That's a rich year for Oscar travesties.

[D]

I had Tron's visual effects down in a Wild Card option. I probably wasn't gonna pick it, but I'm just throwing that out there.

[C]

I saw you've been visiting those with your children.

[D]

Tron took over my household. We've pivoted from Star wars to Tron. We just live in 1984 now. It's weird.

[C]

What's the word on the original Tron?

[D]

Oh, it's a little boring, but we keep coming back to it. It's like it's where all the visuals are. Stuff comes from.

[E]

Sure.

[D]

Yeah. My kid wants to draw stuff from Tron. And there's more to get from the Tron than the other two.

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[C]

Chris, you're up.

[E]

21St century best picture nominee snub. I've left 2006 children of men.

[C]

That was the big one that I said was still on the board.

[A]

Oh my God. You just screwed over my best actor.

[D]

Do you have Marie Antoinette?

[A]

No, I was going to do Meryl and Deborah Rose. Prada for best actress. That's okay.

[E]

Best picture nominees that year Departed. Which one? Babel Letters from Iwo Jima, Little Miss Sunshine and the Queen.

[C]

What's your favorite of those?

[B]

He's a real Iwo Jimmy.

[E]

Oh, Departed.

[C]

What's your second favorite? Babel. Just say it.

[A]

Yeah, it's okay.

[E]

My wife had such a bad panic attack watching Babel. No, that was 21 grams. That's my bad.

[C]

That was kind of her worst nightmare of like, we're on a bus in the middle of nowhere.

[E]

Children Men. I'd put in for. Honestly, for Babel, I put it in over a Little Miss Sunshine and the Queen and Letters from Iwo Jima. But, like, it's. Take your pick.

[C]

Quinn should not have focused on the Japanese perspective.

[E]

No. I thought that was an interesting gambit, like, to do the two films flags back to back. Children are Men. You always take away from my POV by accusing me of being a crypto fascist, but I'm not. I want Children Men to win.

[C]

I'm just asking questions. I'm just asking questions.

[A]

Children Men absolutely rocked us on 25 for 25.

[C]

Yeah. On the revisit, we were like, what's the best movie ever made?

[B]

Uh.

[A]

Oh, one of two times. I started crying on the podcast last year.

[C]

So, yeah, that movie is incredible.

[A]

Lights out. Really good.

[C]

Okay, Amanda, you're up.

[A]

Oh, it's me. Okay. So I was going to do Meryl Streep in Devil wears Prada in 2006 for my best actress wonder snub over Helen Mirren and the Queen. Helen Mirren and the Queen.

[B]

Very good.

[A]

That seems like a. It's just like a nice to be nominated situation for that one.

[C]

It was kind of a. I don't know if it was. If it was a makeup win. What was it a makeup win for?

[D]

It felt like it at the time, and I feel like I didn't realize. I was like, oh, it hasn't been like some other big thing. She would have won.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But I feel like it was like. It was just like, she's a star of stage and TV and Prime Suspect. Like, she had been all over everything, and it's just really like, Helen Mirren should have an Oscar.

[C]

She cruised.

[A]

It also feels like everyone was just like, oh, we're sorry for being mean to the Queen because she's old now.

[C]

No one was thinking.

[A]

I think non Irish people were maybe.

[C]

I don't know, were the English thinking about that? Chris, I'm sorry. We were mean to the Queen in a box.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. But I do have best actress winner sub, so I'll just go with my backup in 2003, Diane Keaton for Something's Gotta Give Good, which was nominated, and I think Is like one of only two Nancy Meyers related nominations to ever happen. The other being screenwriting for Private Benjamin. But. But I think Diane Keaton can have two Oscars in my book. It's fine with me. But this is book club and book club too. Have you seen both book clubs?

[C]

I saw book club.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I haven't seen the second book.

[B]

Tell me about the sequel.

[C]

Book club.

[D]

Do they read 50 Shades of Grey, the sequel?

[A]

They go to Italy and there's an incredible makeover sequence with Diane Keaton too, where she. Like Diane Keaton, she wears like. She gets a whole polka dot thing. They also perform this Gloria, like at some sort of restaurant opening somewhere in Italy.

[C]

Van Morrison's Gloria.

[A]

No, Laura Brannigan. Get with it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

G L O R I A Gloria.

[A]

Yeah, I also know that one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't know. Something's Gotta Give is like one of the great modern rom coms also, you know, know a performance later in life about the being later in life which Best actress doesn't always recognize.

[D]

Are you taking away Charlize's Oscar and giving her another one, or is it.

[A]

I listen, it's. If I. I haven't thought that. That far about what she wants, she can have it for the old guard or whatever.

[C]

Megatron or whatever. What's her cipher?

[A]

Cipher, yes. She can take Free Larry.

[D]

What do you think, Chris?

[C]

Do you like. Are you lead?

[A]

Visually, it's a silent.

[C]

Are you turned on by Charlize in the fast films?

[E]

No, I've never seen Charlize. Fast films.

[C]

Never seen.

[E]

No.

[D]

How many are there?

[C]

She's in three.

[B]

She's in nine. 10, right?

[C]

Like 8, 9, 10, 8, 9.

[E]

I prefer her at the end of Dr. Strange.

[B]

Oh, that's her best role, actually.

[E]

Honestly, Dr. Strange, if we're really being.

[B]

When she comes out of the.

[E]

My favorite Charlize is Atomic Blondes.

[A]

Yeah, I was going to say.

[B]

Well, same Multiverse of Madness. Same say its full name, you know.

[C]

Yes. Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, directed by Sam Raimi. Please show some respect. Back on top. Sam's back on top, guys. Two weeks in a row. Send help. Okay, who's Are you up now? Joanna? Two picks.

[B]

I believe it's me. So to finish out my.

[D]

This is you wrapping it up?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. So in best picture nomination, snub. 20th century. Because I could not give. Give Kurosawa the director slot that he deserved. I'm going to do 1956, Seven Samurai. Best Picture, snub.

[A]

Good one.

[B]

It's a great movie. Have you heard of it?

[A]

A classic film.

[C]

Wait, what year?

[B]

1956.

[C]

Right, 56.

[D]

That's a rough Best Picture lineup right there.

[C]

What's on the board?

[D]

Around the world in 80 days. We twins. Friendly Persuasion. It's a movie I haven't seen. I love William W. Giant in there. The King and I and the Ten Commandments. I think you can find room for.

[A]

Yeah. Can you name all ten of them?

[C]

No, there's a great bit. I just. I just. I just rewatched the Mask of Zoro. You ever see that movie Antonio Bend? It's a really fun.

[E]

Why did you rewatch that?

[C]

I'll tell you why. Oh, I can tell you why right now. Because it will have already happened. I was rewatching the films of Martin Campbell because we're doing goldeneye on the rewatchables.

[A]

Oh, fun.

[C]

So that's the movie he makes immediately after goldeneye.

[E]

I did not do that.

[C]

This is what I do.

[A]

You just replayed the game, like, forever?

[E]

No, I've actually just been living with only Nokia era technology for the last two weeks.

[C]

So, anyway, I bring it up because there's a really funny moment where Catherine Zeta Jones's character goes to give confession. Confession. And in the confession booth play, acting as a priest is Antonio Banderas, who's not a priest. And she says, father, I've come to make a confession. I broke the Fourth Commandment. And he pauses and he says, what could have caused you to have broken the most sacred of commandments? And she was like, well, I wasn't loyal to my father. And he was like, oh, shit. That's not the most sacred of commandments. He did not know, obviously, the Fourth Commandment. So, you know, let's name them all right now, let's go around the table.

[D]

I have a Ten Commandments question. And this is maybe an LA thing you guys all know, but at the Chinese Theater, the. Like, the multiplex version of it, they just have the Ten Commandments from the movie. Are those the real ones? Like the.

[C]

Those are the ones that. From God? Yeah, yeah.

[D]

They landed in Los Angeles thousands of years ago. I guess it was just like a random empty multiplex. And then there were incredibly old movie props. I couldn't believe it. You guys just lived like this. There's definitely kill.

[A]

It's weird, right? You.

[C]

Yeah, sure.

[D]

Yeah. There were costumes in there, too.

[F]

What?

[D]

Ador dresses.

[C]

I love how you went there right after that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So killing cover thy neighbor's wife.

[A]

Right? Stealing false gods.

[B]

Oh, yeah. False gods. What about.

[A]

I had to take A whole year, you, Honor.

[D]

God above all.

[B]

Like taking. Taking your neighbor's stuff. Not just their wife, but also their cat.

[D]

Stealing.

[C]

That's stealing. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, stealing.

[D]

What about keeping the Sabbath? That's one.

[A]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

How many were you at taking the Lord's name in vain?

[E]

Advancing the runner.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Pardon me.

[E]

Advancing the runner. You know, just making good baseball.

[C]

Sure. Bunting.

[F]

Yeah.

[C]

That's a. That's a sin.

[B]

Not looking for a prediction from you.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

What percentage of the golden eye rewatch balls will be spent on Fama Jensen, do you think?

[E]

I would say 83%.

[C]

That is where the Over. What's her name?

[E]

Yelena. On a top.

[D]

On a top.

[C]

Very excited for this podcast.

[E]

She plays baccarat and she derives sexual pleasure from beating men up.

[C]

No, from choking men to death. With her legs.

[B]

With her thighs.

[C]

Which. On top. Okay, who's up? Joanna has one more. Just clarifying. Joe.

[E]

Seven Samurai, 1956, because the US release.

[B]

Yes. Okay, thank you. And then last but not least, and this is just fixing history and not involving Albert Nobbs in 1988. We are giving Glenn Close the best actress Oscar for Dangerous Liaisons. Jodie Foster, we're taking one of her Oscars away, but she still has her Silence of the Lambs Oscar. So I'm not mad about it.

[D]

I've gone down this rabbit hole before, and it is a really clean fix.

[C]

Heidi, I like it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It doesn't honor the. The three actresses nominated for Working Girl that year, but. Okay.

[B]

Tough. Really tough.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

It's too bad. Jody, you think not Elite.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I said.

[C]

Not deserving of two.

[B]

Yeah. I really don't care about movies about women and sexual assault, you know, like, all that sort of stuff. Glenn Close and Dangerous Liaisons is like an absolute incredible performance.

[C]

Very good.

[B]

Dangerous Liaisons is like a perfect film. She's incredible in it. And this would have saved us a lot of agitation over the years. I never would have had to watch her. Her twerk, you know, and that's really important.

[E]

When did she twerk?

[D]

Or ask her when she was nominated for Hillary.

[A]

Ellen, here's a question. Would you still buy?

[B]

I guess.

[D]

Is that the same thing as twerking?

[E]

And that's in the Soderbergh Oscars.

[F]

Yeah.

[D]

Train Station Oscars.

[B]

Covid Oscars.

[C]

Did you watch that?

[E]

I did, yeah.

[C]

You don't remember by memory. Hold that.

[B]

It's really tough. It's very tough.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, Back to Amanda. And there are just a tremendous number of things here left, including the Cute pic that I'm not going to do. Well, Ralph finds in A Bigger Splash was taken. And then I'm not going to do Javier Bardem and Skyfall, even though I stand by that I had Skyfall since I wound up being pretty, like 21st century heavy. I'm going to try to go back in time, and I kind of can't. I'm going to do a Best Picture. Well, no, no. I can do whatever I want. It doesn't matter what category it is. Network didn't win best picture in 1976, so I'm going to take that. And I'm taking that over all the President's Men, another film that I absolutely adore that did also not win Best Picture because Rocky did.

[C]

Where do you stand on Rocky?

[A]

You know, we were in Philadelphia for Thanksgiving and we went to the top of the steps and we did the little pose, and it's a great soundtrack and it's. It's really slow.

[E]

Rocky is very slow.

[A]

I mean, I prefer Creed to Rocky at this point just from watching experience. That said, I obviously wept because Rocky's white. Creed. Yeah, that's. Yeah, I wept during Creed when the Rocky theme song came in. So it's like, I honor the accomplishment. I'm just ignoring you at this point in 2026.

[E]

I want you to dig deeper.

[C]

I'm gonna mix it up. We're talking a lot of history, you.

[A]

Know, so that's great. Anyway, I go with Network because it, you know, predicted the world or, like, measured the world at the time that it was. Oh, okay, that was you.

[C]

That was John Avilton's ghost who just knocked that off because he was like, this will not stand.

[A]

Yeah. So I'm going with Network over All the President, President's Men because it is a trenchant work of social commentary. Like, I mean, it's just one of the greatest movies ever made.

[B]

Yeah. And all the President's Men, I mean, suck it again journalism.

[A]

I think, honestly, I probably rewatched all the President's Men more personally.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

Taxi Driver also nominated that year. You know, honestly, maybe even more resonant in our culture than Network or All the President's Men. To be honest, it would be dope.

[E]

If Amanda was like, I only watch Taxi drivers.

[C]

Okay, cr.

[E]

Your last pick for my wild card. Inspired by the. If this, then that machinations that you guys have been doing. Let's go. I think I can do this year wise 1978. And let's give Ennio Morricone best score for beating. Was that Giorgio Moroder that year.

[C]

Year. Or Saturday Night Fever.

[B]

Hold on. That's kind of.

[C]

I mean, no, not Saturday Night Fever.

[B]

This is fun. I'm being serious.

[E]

Giorgio Moroder for Midnight Express wins that year. Ennio Morricone wins here for Days of Heaven, clearing him from needing to win for Hateful Eight, which is kind of a mixtape of Ennio Morco music. And we give it to Johan Johansen for Sicario that year.

[D]

Hmm.

[E]

And he passes away just a few years after that. It's true.

[C]

You got Sicario into this podcast.

[B]

You got Master Commander and Sicario into this podcast. And I'm really proud of you for that.

[E]

You follow our hearts, but how can you not reward any Omorcone for Days of Heaven?

[B]

That's true. You got first man into this podcast.

[D]

See?

[B]

It's great.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Movies. They're good.

[C]

Love movies. So I've got one more pick left. Thin. Wild Card.

[D]

Wild Card is overwhelming.

[A]

Yeah. Because we just. We have so much stuff.

[B]

I know. There's so much still on the table.

[A]

How much is still on the list?

[E]

Perhaps the biggest one ever. Got talked about here. Right?

[C]

The biggest. The biggest.

[E]

One of the biggest travesty snubs ever or whatever, you know.

[C]

What are you referring to Saving private Ryan? Well, 98 is off the board.

[E]

I know. I just mean we didn't do it yet.

[C]

Yeah, we haven't talked about it. Well, you're. You're fans.

[D]

Shakespeare and Love Defender.

[B]

I love Shakespeare.

[A]

Yeah, I like it as well.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. That's fine.

[D]

It stars the best actress winner.

[C]

It's like, you know, your first man pick was really good, but it really stymied where I was hoping to go.

[D]

It seems as a rich text.

[C]

I really wanted to go. Ethan Hawke in First Reformed. That's the year that Rami Malek wins for Bohemian.

[B]

That was on my list.

[C]

That's a rough win. And there are some interesting nominees in the category that year, but I. I love Ethan Hawken, First Reformed. I think I'm gonna go with a very obvious one that always shocks me every time I hear it. And we have. 1977 is still on the board. Right.

[A]

I was literally just Googling. Yeah.

[C]

Like, yes, Close Encounters of the Third Kind was not nominated for best Picture. And that's just mind blowing. And it's not exactly the most legendary collection of five that were nominated. It's the Goodbye Girl, Julia, Star Wars, Wars Notable, the Turning Point, and Annie Hall.

[B]

Star Wars.

[A]

Have you heard of that?

[C]

Now, obviously, Star wars and Annie hall at the time, acclaimed movies, huge hits, Very important to movie history. The Goodbye Girl and the Turning Point of the same director.

[B]

So you're doubling down on your justice for Spielberg in this era?

[C]

I think so.

[D]

Spielberg doesn't have enough Oscars. This is my hot incorrect take. He has three Oscars. One for best picture, two for Director. It's not enough.

[A]

Also, have you seen the Turning Point?

[C]

No.

[A]

It's really not really tough. Really.

[C]

Not really.

[A]

And I love a ballet film as much as the next person.

[B]

I'm not here to defend the Turning Point. I just think it's interesting that that of like seven slots, you need two to go to Spielberg.

[C]

Well, that is how I feel.

[E]

Disclosure Day is almost upon us.

[C]

Yeah, that is truly how it is.

[D]

Because at the DGAs, everyone in that room was awed by being in the presence of the.

[C]

We just talked about this on the show. I mean, his aura was very strong in the room.

[E]

We should do 21st century Spielberg for draft.

[D]

That's so fun.

[E]

Great.

[A]

Oh, is there a done. Yeah, for the three of us.

[E]

Is that for Disclosure Day?

[C]

For Disclosure Day.

[E]

Great.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So, yeah, I'll put Close Encounters of the third kind in my wild card spot.

[A]

Okay.

[E]

Did you have anything that wasn't nominated?

[C]

I think because Star wars was nominated and they're like, surely we will not put two.

[A]

And he was nominated.

[E]

This guy.

[C]

Okay, Katie.

[D]

All right. 77 takes my best weirdo wild card in one of my favorite categories, which is original song, which gets so weird all the time. Injustice is done constantly because New York, New York, made famous by Frank Sinatra is in the film New York, New York, which I don't think I would have nominated for Oscars as a film, but as a song, it would have been in there. So I tried to think of some songs, but there's like one other really huge, really famous snub. The movie that taught me truly, I think what an Oscar snub was, which is 1994 documentary feature hoop Dreams. Y' all know about basketball. You're familiar with the sport and played many times.

[E]

Possibly the best pick of this draft.

[B]

Welcome to the ringer.

[D]

I gotta give credit to my friend Chris File of this had Oscar buzz podcast, which is about all of this stuff. So anyone who loves it can listen to them. But he picked that they did stunts a couple years ago. Hundred of all time. And this was the number one pick. And I do think it is this definitive of how the Oscars have blind spots, how they can fix it. Documentaries were really like, it's kind of a different world of docs back Then like, the winner is Maya. A clear, strong vision, which I guess would have been in theaters, but sounds like a real PBS kind of thing. And I think that's how the 90s were. But I mean, Hoop Dreams, it feels kind of like a extended, like evening news segment, which is more or less what it is. It's kind of public television, but it is long and extensive and it kind of sets this model for these long term documentaries and having films about people who you might not necessarily see in film and television all the time. So it's again, yeah, like an iconic. I remember them making jokes about it, watching the Oscars as a kid and having to like, ask my parents what they were talking about. And it taught me a lot.

[C]

It's interesting that you picked that for a variety of reasons. One of the things it reminded me of was Siskel and Ebert really went out of their way to praise this movie. They really devoted a lot of time to it on their show. They both loved it. I think in their best of the decades, that was very high on their list. And I think that that shows something that has kind of changed about the Academy Awards over the last 25 years or so, which is that they're much closer in line with critics than they used to be. Especially in the last 10 years. There was a long period of time where it did feel very clubby at the Oscars and a lot of things that would win was very much related to who you knew and how you.

[E]

It was like Tammany hall stuff. It was like backroom deals, a lot.

[C]

Of small groups talking about what they really like and then hive mind forming around that and then a lot of, like some curiosity around the outer edges of the.

[E]

You chalk that up to social media.

[C]

I think that's it. I think a big part of it is the industry, like you pointed out at the top of the conversation, has gotten much bigger. The campaigns start way earlier. There is a lot more kind of like, opportunities to talk about things and to also, like, share the truth, for lack of a better phrase, where people.

[E]

Are just like, happy the chocolat is.

[D]

Not getting in for best bets.

[A]

Yeah, but like Andrea Riseboro still just. Yes. And social media, like, helped its, you know, merry way. I remember.

[E]

Three years ago, three years ago, there's some. Just some goofy stuff.

[D]

But you also got Oscar voters who live in Brazil and Hong Kong and all these places. They can't. Oh, they don't have access to that kind of insider thing. So it just isn't as powerful as it used to be. By the sheer numbers of it.

[C]

Okay. Honorable mentions.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, boy.

[C]

There's got to be a few on.

[E]

The board for you before do honorable mentions. Did you guys have one? What would you be your most controversial one?

[A]

Oh, let's see.

[E]

What would have been your one that you were like. I'm taking away from what many people consider a deserving winner. I will give you an example, just as a conversation starter. I think that Angelica Houston should have won for the Grifters instead of Kathy Bates for Misery. Just on my personal preference of those performances.

[A]

Isn't Kathy Bates for misery also 1990? Which would be Julia Roberts for. Well, I'm taking.

[E]

I would have taken Julia Roberts over Kathy Bates.

[A]

Absolutely. And that also would have taken away Goodfellas and. Goodfellas and Scorsese and Director.

[C]

Could have been a move.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

Kathy Bates is. You know, Kathy Bates is wonderful.

[B]

Here's one. I was too scared to play, but I kind of wanted to. If we give Peter o' Toole the Oscar for Lawrence Arabia, we have to take it from Gregory Peck for it To Kill a Mockingbird, and that is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Atticus Finch is, like, very important to me personally. And so. And Peck doesn't have another Oscar, so I couldn't make that matter.

[C]

O' Toole doesn't have any Oscars.

[B]

Well, he has an honorary Oscar. Doesn't count in my book.

[C]

That's a good one. I don't know. I struggle to think of it like a super obvious. I. I don't think this one is as obvious, but I thought about it because it kind of did the reverse of what I was trying to do through some of this, which is I would take away Nicole Kidman's Oscar for the Hours and I would give it to Julianne Moore for Far From Heaven. But then I would also take away Emma Stone's second Oscar for Poor Things and give it to Nicole Kidman for Baby Girl. That sort of some of those swapping gingers around. Some of my favorites.

[E]

Julian. She won for Still Alice, which is just not. And I would do Raw that year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

[D]

I was going to do.

[A]

And that's the thing that got you. You did Dragon Tattoo instead of Gone Girl being. It's I. That we didn't talk about Fincher enough is. I guess.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And we talked about him a lot.

[C]

We got Social Network and Dragon Tattoo.

[D]

Do we never do 07? Because I thought I had Zodiac. We just never got to it.

[C]

Zero Oscar nominations for Zodiac.

[B]

No one wanted to ride for Heat at this table.

[E]

I. I I am obviously always riding for Heat. But yeah, I.

[C]

If they did a. He was 95.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

If they did a 30 year later Oscar vote amongst the entire active academy and maybe they should do something like this. That would be really fun. If they did something like this. But if they did just a typical vote, you know, or just like every movie is on the board. Every movie that was eligible then is eligible now. Would he win best Picture? I'd get.

[E]

He would get nominated within a 10. I don't know if it would win best pitch picture.

[C]

Would it be nominated in a five.

[A]

For 1990 votes over Il Postino?

[D]

Yes. I was noodling with 95 for Apollo 13 because I think the Ron Howard.

[A]

Can you read the nominees from that year?

[D]

95 Braveheart wins then the nominees are Apollo 13, Babe, Il Posino, the Postman and Sense and Sensibility. Great movie.

[A]

And Angley is not nominated for Sense and Sensibility. I thought about Angley.

[D]

That director lineup is. Yeah. Because Mike Figgis gets in for Leaving Las Vegas and Tim Robbins gets in for Dead Man Walking and then Babel.

[C]

Those aren't bad movies.

[B]

You know what? Justice for Il P. Okay.

[A]

No Sense in Sensibility.

[E]

No, I prefer Heat.

[D]

I would have also.

[B]

I was kind of trying to give John Cazale a supporting actor.

[C]

That's nice.

[D]

74 was tough. I. Or were you trying to do it for. I think I had it for Godfather 2. What were you trying to do?

[B]

No, I can't do it for Godfather 2, but Dog Day Afternoon or maybe even Deer Hunter.

[C]

But that's a good one.

[B]

Yeah, I couldn't do it.

[A]

David lynch from Mulholland Drive is still on the board in 2001, which is sort of crazy.

[C]

Oh yeah, 2001 still there.

[A]

Yeah, it's still on the board.

[C]

Who wanted. Oh, one. Is that Ron Howard?

[A]

Yes, for A Beautiful Mind.

[D]

So if you get him in for.

[A]

Apollo 13, then you fix all this. Yeah, 2017 is still on the board, which was just an incredible year that. I mean, Shape of Water won, but that's Get Out, Call Me by youy Name, Lady Bird, Dunkirk and Phantom thread.

[C]

That falls into a really interesting category of Shape of Water pretty much dominated that whole season. There was not really a sense that it wasn't going to win. Made it that I think think a lot of people. I don't. Does anybody here really ride for Shape of Water? No, we don't really love it. And yet I don't know that it was like unjust because the Academy did want that.

[B]

We were just talking about this that it was like on the east coast. It was the post. Right. Everyone was like the post super late. And then we started talking to people in LA and they were like no shape of water. And I guess because it's about cinema in a sort of way and I.

[D]

Was was just very but if you said like you got to give it a call me by your name Dunkirk Lady Bird or get out like ever Phantom thread These five movies I love. I don't know which one I'm picking.

[C]

Like it's really hard. Would have been cool wins too and something a little different to Academy history.

[D]

I for Darkest Hour like I wouldn't give it to it but there's just good that's a good lineup.

[B]

Another Katie.

[D]

I know Darkest Hour.

[E]

Darkest Hour is great.

[B]

Thank you.

[E]

Oldman over Daniel Day. That year is weird.

[B]

I think William Willem Dafoe in the Florida I really wanted Willem to fall in the Florida project that year. That was my Yeah I know 2022.

[A]

Still on the board. I would have picked Todd Field for tar but because like I feel bad taking it away from Michelle.

[D]

Yo.

[A]

But when you're talking about controversial ones I had that too Blanchet over Michelle. Yo. I just like it's. It's an all timer then she'd have three.

[E]

That was an early race.

[D]

That's okay.

[A]

She's really good. Or we can take it away. I don't even what was blue everything.

[C]

Everywhere all at once just overwhelming.

[E]

I mean that was one of like that got a little dirty.

[A]

Oh and then you could give it.

[C]

To what did Cate Blanchett Francis Hobbs hate speech. What happened?

[E]

No it didn't.

[A]

Michelle not nominated.

[E]

Didn't she post like a weird like she did.

[C]

She broke the rules. That's right. Yeah. She like reposted something that someone shared.

[D]

For these part they can't handle social media. Like there's just too many rules. Do we I don't think we ever did 2013. I think we thought we were and you were taught you talked about Leo.

[C]

Yes. We didn't do it.

[D]

That's another one of my big ones. I can't believe I didn't do which is Tom Hanks and Captain Phillips who didn't even get nominated.

[C]

That's a good song.

[D]

One of the worst property crazy because he got nominated for picture. I think Greengrass got in for director and it just made no sense. It's an amazing performance.

[C]

Yeah. That's the McConaughey year.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

That's also Francis Ha. Which I just said in a side Conversation to Joe when we were talking about Francis.

[B]

Ha.

[A]

Yeah.

[E]

We didn't do 97, right?

[D]

No.

[E]

So that's boogie nights.

[C]

We needed like three more drafts.

[E]

That's Full Monty over Boogie Nights for the nominees.

[B]

Nobody gave Stanley Kubrick an Oscar, right? Did we do 2001 as picture, but not yet.

[C]

Did he win the Oscar for effects? I think, but he didn't. He wasn't the producer of the film, right?

[B]

I don't know. But he does not have a directing Oscar. That's tough.

[E]

From that same sort of genre. I think I had. Did we do. Did we do 64?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

No.

[E]

I would have done seller for winner Strangelove. Strangelove, yeah.

[D]

Rex Harrison might give all these rough man.

[B]

An Oscar.

[C]

I just straight up, I almost went Strangelove over My Fair lady just in Best picture winner Snub. I feel like that would have been. Would have been a good one also. No. Did we do 94? We did 94.

[D]

I did hoop dreams in 94.

[C]

Hoop dreams. That's right. Because Pulp Fiction over Forrest Gump or Shawshank, if you like.

[B]

I respected play Tarantino 4 directors or pulp Fiction at some point, but you're like double Stevie.

[A]

I can't believe you know, did we do 2019?

[C]

We didn't.

[B]

No.

[D]

Did you do JLo?

[A]

That's hard. That was another one where I was like, there's. It was such a rich field, but also Parasite and bong winning.

[E]

You don't want to undo.

[B]

I'm not saying the Parasite year.

[C]

That would have been an interesting split if they had gone. Tarantino in One of those two would.

[D]

Have gone to the San Mendes for 1917, though.

[C]

It would.

[D]

Well be furious.

[C]

Your dad is popping out there if you go for it.

[D]

No, but they would have. That was what the race was.

[C]

That is what the race was.

[B]

My version of first man is Colin Farrell. Banshees of Inisherin.

[D]

That's.

[B]

Oh, that's a good. I really wanted that to happen.

[D]

Who did he lose to?

[B]

Something bad.

[C]

It's okay. He got every award for the Penguin.

[A]

Did anyone get Banshees 2019.

[B]

2022.

[A]

Oh, okay. Well, then I don't remember.

[D]

I had two 2024 ones on there. And I didn't know if I wanted to go that recent, but I would have written for Marianne Shaw, Baptiste and her Truths, a huge best actress. And then also Nickel Boyce for cinematography.

[C]

Yeah, that was Jomo Frey. That was a really surprising.

[A]

Yeah, let me throw one more at you. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross. Challengers.

[C]

Surprised you didn't pull that on your wild card.

[A]

Well, you know, I also had Daniel Patton for Marty supreme in 2025. We just didn't get into the score category. Whatever. It's not too soon for me.

[D]

We got Ennea Morricone. We got him fixed.

[A]

I know my opinions the minute they happen.

[E]

Mildly controversial. If we didn't do 79, would anybody take me going Roy Scheider over Dustin hoffman for Kramer vs Kramer? Roy Scheider and All that Jazz.

[A]

Oh, I think that's a good tier.

[D]

Definitely.

[C]

I would have just taken either Breaking Away or Norma Rae out and put Alien in Best Picture.

[D]

That was another series of information.

[C]

No Alien in Best Picture or also.

[A]

Fosse for All that Jazz. Yeah. And director Fraser and the Wheel. Oh.

[D]

Oh, that performance that we all love.

[A]

That's a bad one in 1987. I'd just like to give it to broadcast News.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Last ever. It's just that's.

[D]

I really was sat for me. I was like, can I take away Cher's Oscar and give it to Holly Hunter? And I can't.

[C]

I can't do it.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

And I just can't.

[C]

Listen, let me ask you, like a point of order question. Do you think Sally Field should have two?

[B]

No, but they like her. They really like me. That's important.

[E]

My favorite one where I was like, I'm trying to wedge this in. In as a snub, but actually had a hard time making the argument to the. To some extent. It was 92. Did we just say. Somebody just say 92? I mean, I know we picked 92, right?

[C]

Yeah, I think so.

[E]

But Last Mohicans didn't get nominated for best Picture. And that's Unforgiven, Crying Game, Few Good Men, Howard Zen. Son of a Woman. I would make the argument probably taking Son of a Woman out.

[B]

Did you see the Instagram clip of Peter Claffey of a Night of the Seven Kingdoms fame saying that the Last Mohican score is his is like, amp up.

[E]

Really?

[D]

That's a great score.

[E]

That should have been nominated.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

Who did that score?

[E]

Trevor. What's his face? Trevor Horn. Okay. And somebody else too.

[C]

Trevor Horn. Was he the loogie for the Minnesota Twins in 2013?

[E]

No, he was like.

[C]

Sounds like he was.

[E]

It was like a guy who was in like a new wave group who then did like a. Moved into soundtracks. And then I think Michael Mann, like, fired him and brought somebody else in.

[C]

Let's recap our picks. We had seven picks each. Who should go first? Since Joanna picked first, you go first.

[B]

Okay, great. Will you show me?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So in Best Picture nominee Snub, I picked Seven Samurai, 1956. In best picture nominee snub, 21st century, I picked in the Mood for Love, 2000. In best picture winner Snub, I picked Mad max, Free Road, 2015. In Best Actor winner Snub, I picked Harrison ford. In Witness, 1985. In Best Actress winner Snub, I picked Amy Adams. In Arrival, 2016. And in Best Director winner Snub, I picked alfred Hitchcock, Rebecca, 1940, and a wild Card, I picked Glenn close, Dangerous Liaisons, 1988. And I feel great.

[C]

Great job.

[D]

Lineup.

[C]

Amanda.

[A]

In Best picture nominee snub, 20th century, I have Bringing Up Baby, 1938. In best picture nominee snub, 21st century, I have the Dark Knight, 2008. In best picture winner Snub, I have this Social Network, 2010. In Best Actor winner Snub, I have Denzel Washington for Malcolm X, 1993. In Best Actress winner Snub, I have Diane Keaton. Something's gotta give. 2003. Best Director winner, Snub, Wes Anderson, the Grass Boot, the Grand Budapest Hotel, 2014. And in Wildcard Network, Best Picture winner, 1976, great roster.

[C]

CR.

[E]

In Best Picture nominee snub, 20th century, I took 2001 A Space Odyssey from 1968. Best Picture nominee snub, 21st century, I took Children of Men from 2006. Best Picture winner snub, I took Goodfellas from 1990. Best Actor winner, Snub, Jeff Bridges, not nominated for the big Lebowski. In 1998, Best Actress winner, Snub, Bette Davis from all about Eve, 1950. Best Director winner, Snub, Peter Jackson, Two Towers, Domino Effects.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

Peter Weir, Wild Card, Ennio Morricone, Days of heaven. Best score, 1978. Also a domino effect. 1.

[B]

That's a great draft.

[E]

Thanks.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In Best Picture nominee Stub, 20th century, I took Singin in the Rain from 1952. In Best Picture nominee Snub, 21st century, I took the Girl with the dragon tattoo from 2011. In Best Picture winner snub, I took Brokeback Mountain, 2005. In Best Actor, winter snub, I took Jimmy Stewart, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, 1939. In Best Actress, Winter Snub, I took Ellen Burstyn In The Exorcist, 1973. In Best Director, Winter Snub, I took Steven Spielberg for ET and in Wild Card, I took Close Encounters of the Third Kind As a best picture nominee, stub, 1977. Katie, you're up.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

In best picture nominee, 20th century, I have do the Right Thing. Best picture nominee, 21st century, first man, best picture winner, Citizen Kane, 1941. Best actor, Jack Nicholson, Chinatown, 1974. Best actress, Kate Winslet, Eternal Sunshine of the spotless mind in 2004. Best director, the Wachowskis for the Matrix in 1999. And then wild card is documentary feature, Hoop Dreams in 1994.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Good draft.

[C]

Pretty good draft, guys. Appreciate all your copy work.

[A]

It was good.

[E]

Way to go.

[C]

Thanks.

[E]

Dungeon Master.

[C]

Who's going to get really fucking reamed this year? Who's going to be the person in this year's Oscars who are like, we gotta draft this one. When we do this again in 2022.

[D]

You know who I'm worried about is Jack Fisk from Marty Supreme. I don't know. Have you guys talked about this on the show yet?

[C]

No.

[D]

Legend who has never won and did incredible work on Marty Supreme.

[C]

We talked about Jack Fisk. Yeah, he was a guest on the show.

[D]

That's right, of course. Yeah, I interviewed him. He's like the nicest, the greatest guy ever talked to. And Frankenstein just is kind of like hovering around is this big crafts heavy thing.

[C]

I'm a fucking brat about that. If I'm.

[D]

I feel like Jack Fisk will be fine and we will be worried.

[C]

Yeah. Okay, now Amanda and I are going to talk about Seurat. Okay, it's just us now. We dispensed with the drafters and changed clothes. We changed clothes. It's a different day. Let's just be honest, folks, we're here to talk about Seurat. Now I've just completed an interview with Oliver Lache, the writer and director of Seurat. And. And my feelings are shifting on the film. Okay, okay. Oliver was an incredible guest. Jack Sanders, that was his favorite guest of all time.

[A]

Wow, I'm so excited.

[C]

Genuinely the best opening to an interview we have ever done.

[A]

Don't say anymore.

[C]

I don't want to spoil it. But let's discuss Seurat, his film. So he co wrote it with Santiago Filol and. And it really only stars one actor of note, Sergey Lopez, who's, you know, the rest of the actors in the film are non professional actors who he scouted and found at raves. And the premise of the film is that this Sergei's character, Luis, is traveling through southern Morocco with his son Esteban. They're searching for his daughter who has been Missing for five months, she was last seen at a dance festival in a desert. As they travel from party to party, they hear of a semi mythical rage near the border of Mauritania. So they go on this kind of epic road trip and the film kind of descends into madness from there. This film premiered at Cannes last May, and I had a chance to see it over the summer. I have personally been quite surprised by the momentum it has picked up. Not among cinephile crowds, where I think it is quite divisive, but amongst a slightly more normie award season Academy me. We talked on our shortlist episode about how it had been recognized in several categories there, despite its more unusual nature. So you finally saw it?

[A]

I did, and I thought I knew what the twist was, but I did not, which was good. So I went in pretty blind, which I hope other people will. And I kind of. I don't think you should listen to the interview if you have.

[C]

We didn't get into a lot of details, but I will say I'm putting this discussion and interview at the end of an episode that a lot of people will already dig. Because I think it's gonna take time for some people to catch up to this. Maybe they can circle back to it if they haven't seen it.

[B]

I'll speak broadly.

[A]

I can spoil it in the first two minutes. There's a man in Eagles jersey at the rave in. Wherever they are.

[C]

Yeah, Morocco.

[A]

Morocco. And I noticed it because my brain is diseased. That's how I'm living these days.

[C]

That was your trauma for this film.

[A]

I think that the first, like, the big evil scene worked on me and didn't feel as manipulative as I think maybe you felt about it or some, you know, some others have. And then as the film went on, there were. There were some other. I wasn't willing to go all the way with it.

[C]

So I think I land in a somewhat similar place. I received an email from a friend who was like, you have to. To talk to Oliver. And I'm not over the moon for Seurat, but I am kind of fascinated by it. And it is actually somewhat similar to me to how I feel about Wuthering Heights, which we talked about on last week's episode, where it was sort of like, this is undeniably got some juice. Like, there are a couple of moments that are unforgettable and burned into my mind. And I said that to Oliver. But I'm also trying to work through this idea of how was I being manipulated and what does it mean to be manipulated. What is the responsibility of cinema? That was a big part of the conversation that we were having. And based on his mission for what he's trying to do in this film, he clearly succeeded because he did a few things that I was affected by that I thought about a lot that I still don't know if I think that they are just merely provocation or communicating something more powerful. There were times when we were talking where I was confused by what he was saying about how he saw his film relative to what I. And we should say that several of the characters experience terribly violent ends and that the movie gets quite crazy at a few different moments. And it is otherwise much more sort of a road movie where you've got this kind of band of people who are brought together on these paired missions. One, this family in search of their daughter, and then these ravers who are always in search of the next rave, the next party, the next step in the stage of life where you're sort of of like, evading a normal life and living this much more itinerant experience where you're finding the next party every day. And I thought the performances were pretty good. I think they're not asked to do a ton. They're more asked to be themselves. I think the music is obviously pretty transfixing and it gives the film a heartbeat. The first shocking moment, which, if you don't want the movie spoiled for you, don't listen anymore. But Esteban, the young boy who's with his father throughout the film, is playing on the side of a ledge when they're going across a kind of like Fitzcarraldo Sorcerer style, you know. Terror Dome. Yeah. Mountain pass. Yeah. And he's playing on the side of the ledge with his dog and his father tells him to get in the car.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

So that he's not playing on the ledge. And he gets in the car and the car begins rolling backwards and it rolls off the mountain.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And Esteban falls to his death.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

And up until this point, the film has a very, I'll say European feel, which is that it's taking its time, it's a bit searching. Doesn't have what you would describe as like a driving plot.

[A]

No, but it does have a lot of driving. It's not. Not evocative of Mad Fury Road, just in the sense of, like, desert scenes, caravan, and a group of characters who are more symbolic than they are. Like, fleshed out people with a ton of dialogue.

[C]

And similarly, a world with people kind of on the outside edge of society. You Know people who are not part of the common power structure. That death fucked me up when I saw it and I was a little mad about it and I felt like it was a real poke in the chest.

[A]

Well, it's not just the death. Death it is. It's the entire scene because it's a. It's a long scene, purposefully constructed. And the minute that Esteban is asked to move from the ledge, you're like, oh no. You just like you and you know, and you have to. That. That is an achievement of filmmaking.

[C]

It totally is.

[A]

That explains to you exactly what is going to happen and then tortures you throughout the rest of the scene till it does happen. And the way that it does it, it involves one of the other vehicles in the caravan being stuck and these people are trying to get it moving and they have a moment of, you know, of triumph. They get something, you know, you think the peril is over here and then the peril is very quickly over there. But also it's a three minute scene that feels like 45 minutes because again, it communicates to you in really classical filmmaking style, like, what is going to happen in the worst possible way. I thought it was really effective. I was like, you got me and I'm pissed off. My husband watched Seurat with me and then went to bed after that scene. He was like, I got it, I'm good, I'm going to bed.

[C]

I think a lot of people have that reaction. I do think there's a kind of purposeful punishment. Oliver kept saying, you have to die, you have to die. That's an idea that he felt very strongly about. And I'll also Note that he's 67 with long hair and strikingly beautiful and eloquent and an artist and a European man with a wonderful accent. And I look like a dead scarecrow next to him. And it was just not a good look for me. But I hope people will enjoy it. I think what happens next, the movie goes into like the land of the ecstatic. It kind of transforms from something that feels more grounded into a bit of a. A kind of like a. A negative fantasia and of like destruction. And. And just when you think you. You've become free or punished for it and you know, what's been sewn in the land, these kind of like tools of destruction that are all through these parts of the world will ultimately punish innocent people, you know, once.

[A]

The more things you add onto it, the harder it is for everything to hold up, in my opinion. So by the, you know, by the time the. Again, spoiler alert. The minds went off and I was like, oh, fine. You know, I was startled. It had the effective jump scare quality, but I didn't feel as. I didn't even feel manipulated, if that makes sense. I didn't feel drawn in enough to then be like, oh, okay, well, now I'm really pissed off at you. I just kind of. Yeah, things are getting out of hand.

[C]

Yeah. I think that filmmaking in that final section with the Landmines is very. Is really well done physical filmmaking. You really do feel the boom and the crash and the sort of like the shock of the moments. But I similarly didn't have the same emotional thunderclap feeling that I had with Esteban's death. Still accomplished. Interesting movie. Clearly a lot going on. He said that this movie's 20 years in the works. He's made three previous films. They all played at Cannes, but they didn't really make their way to America the way that this one has. And I'm really. I'm intrigued by him.

[A]

And I hope this was a formative experience for you.

[C]

Well, we'll see. I mean, we'll see how much it changes me. You know, I think, like I said, he had. You're fond of saying that someone has power. It's undeniable that this man has power. Yeah. And you'll be able to see it right now. Let's go to my conversation with Oliver Lache. Very happy to be here with Oliver Lache. We're here to talk about Seurat. I know everyone's saying, where did this movie come from to you? But I want to know when it started, what happened, what was happening the day you started thinking about this movie Seurat comes from?

[E]

Ah.

[F]

They understand it.

[C]

Yeah. Did you have a bad day? Yeah, yeah.

[F]

I mean, my creative process is really visceral. You know, I'm not. I'm not going to the office to work, you know, to make a film about. And with the history of dialoguing with this filmmaker and this other filmmaker, you know, I mean, it's more. I have images at the beginning intentions. And my creative process is really related with my personal development process. So in a way, I always. On an inconscient way. I'm like, exploring regions of my being. We'll say, and I wanted to die. I wanted to die making the film. Yeah, I wanted to. I think when you watch Sirat, you die. What was your experience, Sean?

[C]

I felt a little violated, honestly. I did. I found it a little. Yeah, I found it really hard to Take. And I mean that in a positive way. But I have some questions about that. But I want to wait for that for a second, for kind of how you maybe worked with the audience or against the audience at times with rx.

[F]

Not against. I'm trying to take care of the audience. Radically. That was the best way I found to take care of the spectators. That is proposing to spectator a catharsis. You know, cinema is a place for catharsis, a theater, you know. And I think we have to learn to die before dying. That was my intention also with the film. I think people who are from Western countries, we are escaping from death in a way. Before, we had a lot of ceremonials, a lot of writ of passage of passage to meditate and experiment. Death, that is the best way to be more free and more emancipated.

[C]

So feeling that way, you wanted to put that feeling on screen specifically. Is that where that comes from? Or is it just you're trying to kind of like conjure a visual representation of that experience that you were having?

[F]

I think that as a spectator, you. As I said, you die. I mean, you are confronted to your limits in a way, you know, you are on a subtle and inconsistent way. When you watch Sirat, you are confronted of your, Can I say, smallness?

[C]

Sure.

[F]

And you are you. And I think that when the film finished. I don't want to generalize. I mean, everybody feels it in a different way. But when the film finished, in a way, you are more alive. There is a feeling of a positive feeling, you know, this is the mystery of existence, Sean. You know, sometimes, you know, it's through pain that we feel freedom, you know, I mean, I don't get birth, but look, the speech of experiences of women who get birth, you know, it's really painful. Yes, they die. Yes, they die. But the level of transmission, the level of wisdom that life gives to give to them, you know, when they get birth and the energy, the amount of love that they experiment, you know, when that happened, finally, you know, physically they die, you know, but they want to do it again, you know, I mean, this is what Sirat explores in a way, on a subtle and inconscencial way.

[C]

At the risk of going to the end too quickly, when we're at the end of the film and we're on that. That track and we're in the back of that truck, are those characters reborn then in your mind?

[F]

Totally. Sirat. It's shock therapy. And, yeah, there is a process of death and rebirth and you are transformed. I'm One of these people who feels that life takes care of you all the time, even the times that when life shakes.

[C]

You answer some practical questions about this film. For me, it had been six years since your previous film. Were you working specifically on this in the duration of that time?

[F]

I mean, yes, I'm a slow filmmaker, but I'm also working in an organization where I live in the Montreal, in Galicia. I mean, I'm not just focused on cinema, you know, I'm also studying psychotherapy, gestalt, you know, that takes me time, and that is related also with the films I do. But yes, working in cinema, I like to be everywhere, you know, I'm really an artisan, controlling all the aspects of decoration, you know, I mean, it's not a work for me, making a film, you know, it's not. And so I don't know how many years will it take me the next.

[C]

Month with this one. How do you find the right places to go to shoot this film?

[F]

So I was living in Morocco for 10 years, so I really know this country. And the mountains of Morocco are mountains that really give me a lot of serenity. You know, you, you are in front of the creation of the planet. You know, all this geology, you know, all the layers of, you know, I, I, I like this. And the desert, the desert is a place really transcendental. You are obliged to look inside on a desert, you know, you, there is no you, you can't distract yourself. There is nothing where your eyes can be destroyed, distracted, you know, you have to look to the sky or to look inside. That is the same thing.

[C]

The locations are fascinating. Are the desert raves? Are those based on real experiences that are happening? Are those events that are, that are happening. Had you attended many of those before you put this on screen? Tell me your experience doing that.

[F]

Winters in Europe are tough. And also because ravers, they are living, you know, in, in the trucks or they are living on, you know, cabins, you know, so they, and they are travelers, you know, I mean, raving is not just about partying, it's also about traveling. And so they, they usually are, they are really interested to meet other people, you know, in a way. Also, rave culture is a kind of neo tribalist. So, for example, in Morocco, they like to meet a lot of Berbers and to be with them. And so they escape from the winter and they fix their trucks. There are like three, four mechanicians in Morocco that they are specialized to on trucks and they dance in the desert or in locations that has something that.

[C]

Way of living is Extremely foreign to me. I could not imagine in my suburban existence living in a major American city with my family and not spending my time looking for that kind of exaltation. It seems like it's like an ongoing journey to find release, to find this catharsis that you're talking about, about. What do you think is driving the people who live that way and then who you're portraying in the movie.

[F]

I think that rave culture as art, as spirituality is going through your limits. So it's not for everybody.

[C]

Yeah, I really couldn't see it for myself. How did you find the actors?

[F]

We did while casting through Ray and communities. So we had a truck. We were like going looking for a family, you know, so we were picking people everywhere. Some of them, they are friends of mine. And we were looking for fragility. That's what we love of people. And I think as spectators we are fragile and we like to see fragility in front of the, in the, in the image.

[C]

How do you know someone's going to be able to give a good performance if they're a non professional actor?

[F]

If you are touched by the human being, a camera can capture this, can capture the beauty, you know, after. It depends on you. I trust the people. I don't trust myself. Sometimes you have the ability to capture their soul, you know, their fragility. Their a mystery, sometimes not. But it's a matter of time, you know. So that's why I take so much time to make my films. Because these people were afraid to be shoot, obviously. So they were coming. We spent a lot of time at home. We were going to the forest to work. We were watching films together, making rehearsals and. And that takes time.

[C]

What films were you watching together?

[F]

So we were watching a lot of American films. Tulane, Blacktop from Monty Hellman, Masterpiece, Apocalypse Now. What else? Vanishing Point. Amazing film.

[C]

Yes.

[F]

Easy Rider we were watching, I remember we watch. Days of Heaven, the Malick film.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, A lot of road classics, American road classics.

[F]

Yeah. I really. Obviously we were watching Tarkovsky's and Bresson, films that are also important for me. But this film, I think that dialogues a lot with the American Cinema from the 70s. These movies that I told you did, you understood them, what they are talking about?

[C]

I think most of those movies are kind of not meant to be literally understood, but they're kind of metaphors for existentialist despair. You're always going towards something and it's still going to be painful at the end, to your point.

[F]

And you feel the time when they were made you feel the society, 70s society, that was crazy here. All the polarity between, you know, the war in Vietnam, all the contra cultural movements, use of psychedelics in psychology, you know, I mean, and you feel this energy on the films, you know, I mean, they were doing films like if it was the last one, you know.

[C]

When you're showing the films to the cast and the crew, are you saying to them, I want you to get into the mentality, the head science state of these kinds of films. This is the kind of film we're making, or is it just. I want to share this with everyone tonight and this is a way we can unwind.

[F]

When I talk to who, when you're.

[C]

Showing the film, when you're screening the film, to anyone who's associated with the movie.

[F]

Associated?

[C]

Yeah.

[F]

And what is the question?

[C]

Well, did you, were you showing these movies specifically to other people who were in the film?

[F]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were. To the actors? Yeah, we were working on these films. I wanted them to feel what we, that our film is a gesture and we wanted to dialogue also with our time, you know, we wanted to capture the fears and the dreams that we have nowadays. Hopefully, hopefully in 20 years people will watch Sirat and will say, oh, this film was talking about something from his time.

[C]

You know, how much of what you put on the page actually turned out in the film. Were you very close to what you, you wrote through?

[F]

Yeah, totally. The script is 50 pages. It doesn't mean that it didn't took time to write. I mean, we were working for 10 years in the script, but for me, less pages, better script. Why? Because we have a radical trust in the tools, in the cinematic tools of expression. You know, cinema has a particular way to evoke things, to say things, things. And so it's a balance my scripts between dialogues and things that you want to say, but also images that wants to evoke things, you know. And yes, it was a really technique shooting to answer you, only 7 weeks, 35 days. So you, you cannot improvise. You know, we have a. Of lot, lot of sequences, action sequences that are difficult to shoot. So yeah, sometimes orthodox script writers, they tell me that there is no script in my films and I take this as a compliment because you have to hide the proof of the crime, know. Or do you see this mark?

[C]

The fingerprints. The fingerprints.

[F]

When you make a, when you commit a crime, you know, in art you have to hide, you know, your intention.

[C]

So yeah, I think that you have an amazing ability to shock. You know, you really took my breath away a couple of times in the film, in a way. And I see a lot of movies, and I know a lot of where most movies are going, I feel like. And so. So maybe that's some of what you're describing, that there's this ability to. I felt like part of the success of the film, from my perspective, is that it feels like you're finding it as it's going. Cause the characters are finding. They're on this journey and they're finding something like life.

[F]

Sure, like life. I mean, in life is like this. I mean, you start the day on a comedy and you finish on a drama, or you are depressed and suddenly you fall in love, you know, and life never calls you and tells you, sean, be careful. Tomorrow you're gonna have a test. You know? And we like crisis. We like crisis. Crisis is the way that life has to shake us, to make us grow, to make us look inside. And this film has also the ability. I have a lot of relation with psychoanalysts and psychotherapists and. And the film makes something that these people makes in therapy that is to suspend your rational side of the brain in order that other level of perceptions emerge. Sirat is a film that you watch with the body, not with the brain. You feel it. But I think that this is. Is the essence of cinema, you know? Now, obviously, with all the series and all the influence that the television has in cinema, there are a lot of films that they don't have. Not one image, not one that. Bam. That penetrates you, that shakes you, that touch you, you know, but this is the essence of cinema. I mean, yesterday at the launch, nominees. Yes, a lot of people tell me, wow, the images are still in me after three, four months watching the film. And I, like, they say this to me, but come on, this is the essence of cinema. Every film has to provoke this on you. You are going to a theater, you know, that is a kind of spaceship where. I mean. And we had, all of us, this experience going to a cinema and get transformed. When you go outside the cinema, you feel. Feel, wow. You feel a fever in your body. Right.

[C]

It's interesting that you say that too, and you use the word provoked. And I wanted to ask you about that. So some of the criticisms that come in on the film are that it is a provocation, that it is a manipulation almost of your expectations of your feelings. But you don't.

[F]

No, I didn't read much. These critics.

[C]

Okay, well, I'm curious how you respond to hearing that, because you're. No, no, no. This is Something that I've read. But I did feel, I said violated, because specifically watching the car go over the ledge, which I will not. Going off the mountain, I will not forget that while watching the film for the first time, and I watched it for a second time last night, I was struck, very, very hit hard by that image and that feeling in Sergei's, just his face looking over the edge of the mountain. But, you know, that is a thing that it feels like a choice being made in a film that is otherwise. This kind of like, you know, you've really lulled us into this sense of this journey, you know, and there's confusion and there's frustration on the journey, but it is not this violent feeling of shock and pain that you thrust into the middle of it.

[F]

Yeah, I mean, I'm living on a world where innocent people die, you know, and it's something. Think that we have to be confronted, you know, as I say, before, we have to learn to die before dying. I mean, if you want to be more free and more emancipated, if we want to suffer more, it's good medicine. You know, watching films like Sirat, I mean, it's. I think that more you confront yourself to this, less fears you are going to have. At the same time, I think that thanks to cinema, we feel that we love these people. We are not. Seyra doesn't have skepticism or cynicism. I mean, we are shooting these people with a lot of love. And this is obvious. I mean, the way they take care of the others, the values they have, you know, this is something that we have in Western countries. We are too worried about death. On a traditional country or from a traditional or spiritual perspective, to die is not a problem. You die when you have to die. The question is, how do we die? Are we dying with dignity, protecting our values or not? And the characters in Sirat, they die with dignity, I think. And also they provoke things in a subtle way, you know, I mean, also thanks to the use of the sound and the music, you know, I think that there is a balance, obviously, you know, I don't know if you've done up a ceremony. It's painful when you make a ceremony. You have to look inside and it's not cool sometimes the medicine, it's bitter, you know, but we had the capacity to put a little bit of honey in the edge of the glass. So you drink the medicine of Syrat. Thanks to.

[C]

Yeah, I think I'm curious about the music and the sound design, because it does. It's part of what lulls us a little bit. Bit into this sense of, I don't know, not what you expect from rave music, but there is a pulse, a heartbeat, a kind of like a consistent, almost calming feeling to the score at times as we're going through the film, and then it does ratchet up and we become more tense throughout it. But was all of the music written after the film was shot? Was there any conversation beforehand? How did that work?

[F]

So first I was dancing these images that I had at the beginning. So music is really related from the beginning, a little electronic music. The way I wrote, I write my scripts is really atmospheric, like music. And I always add links from music, you know, in my script. And I did a casting of Musician, and Kandin Wright was perfect. I mean, he's extremely talented. And we had the chance to work one year before the starting of the shooting. I really wanted to have the mood of the film, you know, worked before. And that was the goal, you know, to make images that you could hear and to make music and sounds that you can watch, you know, to really build on his culture, really organic. I think Zirati's sorcery has sorcery, you know, I mean, it's images, the proportions. It's really alive, you know, the grain of the 16 millimeter, the distortion of the electronic music, you know. Yes, it was luxury to work in that way.

[C]

Did you have. Were you making images based on the music that you had heard that he had composed?

[F]

No, we didn't change much. The script, after having the music we were editing, we found obviously different connections between the images. Yes. The plan that we had with the music was at the beginning to feel something more cathartical, you know, the techno, the kick, you know, it's more physical. But slowly the adventure, the film is becoming more metaphysical, you know, and so we are more, with sounds, more ethereal, transcendental, you know, we are approaching sacred music at the end of the film. So the ceremony, it's tough. Yeah, but at the end, someone gives you an orange juice.

[C]

I feel like part of the reason why some Western audiences, who are very cynical, maybe struggle to confront some of the things that you're doing in the film is because also there's just a lack of spirituality, too, in our culture, like a waning a spirituality. And that also, you know, this move is kind of communing with something bigger than itself. Right.

[F]

It's a mirror. And obviously, human beings, what we do, when we don't want to watch inside, what we do is a projection. We project outside what we don't want to see and listen. I think that Siratra sends the category of I like or I don't like. You know, as an author, when I listen to people who. Who doesn't like it, the way they speak about it, I know we did well or wrong.

[C]

It still hit them. Yes, yes, that is very interesting.

[F]

It's healing something, it's provoking something. But again, on a good way. I mean, it's certified as a good medicine by people who knows about it.

[C]

Let me ask you a simple question. There's a rising trend in movies in the last few years of filmmakers waiting until long into the film to reveal the title of the film, the title card of the film. You wait 32 minutes before saying, this is Seurat. Okay, why do you do that? What is the intention there?

[F]

No, there is no intention. You know, I don't work all the time. I'm a thinker, as you see, but I'm not work. I don't put. My head everywhere when I'm working, making films, you know, I trust my taste, you know, if it's tasty, I'm going in a good direction because the taste is really related with your inconstant, you know. So, you know, that sequence, we come from the Quran and we go to the techno. That sequence is really sensorial, you know, and we are feeling a lot of things. It's a sequence word where they desert on a way, you know, they are on the road and they go to the desert, you know. And the title, it's like you have a feeling of the adventure starts, let's go.

[C]

That's exactly what it is.

[F]

And with the speed, you know, you feel, okay, these people are going to transcendental trip, you know, I like that a lot.

[C]

How do you think about building and releasing tension in the story? Are you thinking strategically? Are you thinking emotionally? Because the film has been compared to some of the movies that you talked about. The film that I stayed compared to the most often is Sorcerer. I don't know if that's a movie that you had watched in preparation for this, but those are movies that are really kind of ramping things up and getting everybody very involved. And then there's a big release and then we go to the next episode, so to speak, in the film. Are you thinking that much like a diagram when you're working on it?

[F]

Yeah, me and Santiago Figol, I write with him. We think in our films, like operas, and so we are thinking on the energy, you know, of the sequences and so how to Go to the next block. I mean, it's something alive, a film, you know, it's. You want to build a kind of line that is tense, ready to. You know, and we didn't want it to make a long film. I had. I had two and a half hours of.

[C]

A cut.

[F]

Yeah, a cut. But we wanted. We really wanted to. To have more tension, you know, and more. Yeah, it's. So this ceremony, it's. It's intense. So longer could be.

[C]

But, yeah, I think it's. Where it is is very effective. What. What do you make of how the movie's been received? Because, you know, you've. You've brought many films to Cannes in the past. You know, you. You won a prize there this year. But the. The film has really connected with people in. In the United States and. And in a way that I would not have expected. I saw it over the summer and thank you. I liked it, but I think I doubted maybe just the tastes of the common awards voter. We'll see how much audiences will get invested in it. But it is that thing that you were describing of people. Don't forget the images. And it makes an impression in a way that some films just kind of wash away quickly. Are you surprised that it has penetrated this way?

[F]

Obviously you are surprised because even if your intention is this, you never know. But we radically trust on a spectator. We radically trust on the relation between an image, sound and the body of the spectator. And we radically trust on theaters. The combination of these three things makes. I mean, we are cinephile. We felt this, you know, with the film from the Masters, but you never know. I did also the film with. I mean, I wanted to make a popular film film, you know, that's.

[C]

We.

[F]

That's. That's the honey, you know, in the. In the edge of the. You know, the Jenner. We're studying these films, you know, like, why. What.

[C]

Well, why did you want to make a popular film?

[F]

Because we want to serve. Because we want to make. I mean, I don't. I'm not interested. It's my fourth film. I. All the films goes to Cannes. I get awarded there. But I'm not interested to be on a kind of scene, close scene, you know, I mean, to make a film is something really extreme.

[C]

So.

[F]

And so obviously you want. It's part of a mission, you know, Obviously there is also an erotic side, you know, I mean, you are looking for love, but there is. It's. We really want to. We want to wake up us and the spectator too, you know, making this we want to elevate the level of conscience. We want to heal. I think cinema can heal the collective imaginary. You know, we are on a moment with a lot of fears. That's the problem in our society. Amount of fears. Everybody has fears and everybody is suffering. There is a collective wound. And it's good that cinema heals slowly this. This wound. And I think that on a subtle way Sirat makes it.

[C]

Your sincerity is bracing. I'm not used to engaging with this so directly, if I'm being totally honest with you. Do you know. Do you know what you're doing next? Have you started writing?

[F]

I wanted to say also that we are talking about life and death, you know, we are talking about family. We are not talking about. I don't like this expression. I mean, we evoke these things. You feel these things, and that's why it's connecting. In France, it's the. We did 800,000 spectators, you know, and in Spain, half million. I mean, it's. Yeah, the film people. I think people are tired to watch the same films, you know, and this is the future of cinema, you know, to. I'm not saying films like cirat, but to remember people that a theater is a place for transformation. You know, I wanted to add something because audiences are really important for me also, I wanted to dialogue with young audiences. You know, I was 20 years old and I was totally lost. And cinema art was something that really connects me, you know, war me. And so I wanted to do the same. And we are doing this. We are connecting with these audiences, and I'm so happy for it.

[C]

It's amazing. We end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen. Seen. Have you seen anything that has moved you?

[F]

So I watched the film from Jafar Panahi. It was just an accident. And I just watched it three days ago and I really loved it. He's one of the contendants. I won't say contend, because everybody wins.

[C]

You know, you're both in the race for best international feature race.

[F]

I mean, whatever. We are sharing a beautiful tree and. And we are winners, all of us.

[C]

What did you like about the film?

[F]

So I like it because. Because the film has a lot of mercy on a moment that it's really necessary to understand that everybody are suffering, that people who provoke suffering is because they are suffering. They suffer. You know, it's. It's a film. In Iran, we will see someone who. You will see the guy who tortured and the guy who is tortured. And. I mean, we have to give good news. We are in a moment that filmmakers we have to give good news and to on a moment that you know is necessary. You know, love and light.

[C]

Oliver, thanks for doing the show.

[F]

Thank you. Very kind.

[C]

Thank you to Joanna Robinson. Thank you to Katie Rich. Thank you to the very striking Oliver Lache. Thanks to cr. Yeah, our homie. Thanks to all the real Oscar heads out there who felt seen during that draft.

[A]

Listen to feedback. So be good.

[C]

I mean it always is, you know, have we, have we done a bad episode yet?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Have we ever aired? Everyone agrees this was a three hour episode. Do you feel good about that?

[A]

Apparently people only complain when the episodes are too short. I don't hear any of the complaints.

[C]

So I would never know why. Is that because you're deaf? What's the issue?

[A]

To feedback.

[C]

Later this week we will be returning to Garbage. Crime Sierra and I, we have a text to examine in crime 101 and we will be looking at it and I think what we're gonna do is the post heat crime movie. Every movie that has heat in it.

[A]

Mm. This is. I'm looking forward to listening to this.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

I will see crime 101 on my own time and then probably get a laser on my face.

[C]

Very cool. Well, enjoy your week off and we'll see you later this week. It.