The Robert Altman Hall of Fame

Summary

The Big Picture (The Ringer)

Episode: The Robert Altman Hall of Fame

Air Date: September 9, 2025

Hosts: Sean Fennessey & Amanda Dobbins

Overview

In this episode, Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins celebrate the centennial of legendary filmmaker Robert Altman by constructing an “Altman Hall of Fame.” They take listeners through the highs and lows of Altman’s prolific career, examine his artistic signatures, and craft an essential guide for anyone eager to dive into his filmography. The discussion also touches on the recent Venice Film Festival, weekend adventures, and the influence of Altman on Paul Thomas Anderson and beyond.
Tone: Conversational, thoughtful, witty, occasionally self-deprecating, and fueled by genuine cinephile enthusiasm.

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Episode Structure & Key Segments

1. Venice Film Festival Recap (01:50–08:08)

• Sean and Amanda discuss notable (and controversial) prize winners:
  • Benny Safdie wins Best Director for "The Smashing Machine."

    "Once again, the images of Dwayne the Rock Johnson absolutely beaten down on people, in a cinematic, beautiful, lush score." – Amanda (02:18)

  • "Voice of Hindra Job" (Kauther Ben Hania) wins Grand Jury Prize, noted as an urgent, contemporary story about Gaza (03:15).
  • Jim Jarmusch’s "Father, Mother, Sister, Brother" wins Golden Lion – big legacy award, starry cast (Adam Driver, Cate Blanchett), not yet released in the US (03:46–05:18).
  • Observations on how festival politics, timing, and jury tastes play out versus critics and audience response.
• Amanda’s marathon Venice experience: candid reflections on festival burnout and the difficulties of festival coverage for American press.

2. Weekend Stories & Tournament of "Great Works" (08:11–14:56)

• Amanda recounts seeing Oasis at the Rose Bowl (“like grown-up Disneyland...a study in aging, you know.” – Amanda, 09:58), including a digression on the Gallagher brothers, bucket hats, and concert culture.
• Both saw a special screening of "One Battle After Another" (Paul Thomas Anderson & Leo DiCaprio collaboration), with a Q&A led by Steven Spielberg:

  "Spielberg basically did the Chris Farley show at Paul, where he just sort of, like, recapped the movie and told him how much he loved...that was okay." – Sean (12:49)

• Discussion of Amanda and Sean's facial hair (and male attempts to hide vulnerability) spins into gentle theorizing about filmmakers as personalities.

3. Why a Robert Altman Episode? (14:56–17:27)

• Sean frames Altman as a foundational influence on his favorite directors (PTA, Tarantino, Fincher, Soderbergh, etc.).
• Criterion Channel collaboration: streaming Altman essentials, with a special promo code (BIGPICTURE20) for listeners.

  “If you’re listening, special offer. We created a custom code for you...20% off an annual Criterion Channel subscription...” – Sean (16:24)

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The Life and Artistic Hallmarks of Robert Altman

Altman’s Story (17:27–29:25)

• Background: Kansas City upbringing, WWII Air Force pilot (50 missions), attempts to break into Hollywood as a writer/director thwarted, detour through industrial films.
• Hollywood Entry: Indie debut ("The Delinquents"), James Dean docu-commission, break into TV (Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Bonanza). Notably older than the "New Hollywood" class.
• First Features: Studio system tensions, blending outsider sensibility to genre material.

The Essentials of the "Altman Style" (29:25–40:13)

• Key Artistic Signatures:

  • Subversion: Never a straightforward genre movie ("no regular war movie…not a normal detective story").
  • Overlapping Dialogue & Cacophony: Captures lifelike chaos and the difficulty of being heard (“One of the problems of the world is that no one is listening to each other. They’re just trying to say what they want to say.” – Sean, 32:59).
  • Performance & Spectacle: Recurring obsession with public and private performances, people "putting on a show."
  • Ensemble, Shambolic Structure: Large casts, non-linear storytelling, improvisation.
  • Camera Work: Wandering, slow, searching zooms – capturing vulnerability and character psychology.
  • Humanism and Outsider Focus: Empathy for weirdos and outcasts, often women, rarely judgmental.

• Influence on Others: Broader impact on directors like PTA, Safdie Brothers, Baumbach, Wes Anderson, and more.

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Robert Altman: Entry Points, Career Arc, and Essential Themes

Entry Point Recommendations (42:14–44:13)

• Popular first watches for Altman newbies:
  • Sean: “The Long Goodbye“ – “my entry point…most familiar…a detective movie but not really a detective movie like you’ve ever seen before.” (42:22)
  • Amanda: “The Player“ (1992) – for those starting now, a bridge from contemporary to 70s Altman. (43:13)

Altman’s Oscar Trajectory & Recognition (44:21–45:25)

• 5 Best Director nominations, never a win; Honorary Oscar speech (2006) notable for candor and hope for “20 more films”; only two Best Picture nominations, but major international festival honors.

Recurring Discussion Points (Throughout)

• The complexity of Altman’s relationship to female characters and whether he "understands" women – Amanda suggests he attempts to, or is at least "in pursuit."
• The concept of performance—political, on-stage, emotional—as central to the Altman worldview.
• Altman’s career as a mix of “all-timer masterworks and fascinating duds”—making the Hall of Fame difficult to curate, but rewarding.

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The Altman Hall of Fame: Essential Films and Their Place in His Legacy

Process & Criteria (48:00–117:01)

• Sean and Amanda proceed film by film, spanning from 1957 to 2006, assigning each a:
  • Green: Essential, Hall of Fame
  • Yellow: Not quite essential, but notable or representative
  • Red: Non-essential, for completists only

The 10 Essential Altman Films (“The Greens”):

1. MASH (1970) – Breakout antiwar comedy; foundational text; “circus comes to town” Altman energy.
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971) – Antiwestern; meditative, impressionistic, music by Leonard Cohen; “one of the most beautiful movies ever made.” – Sean
3. The Long Goodbye (1973) – Revisionist noir; Elliott Gould; “both fun and sad…great snapshot of LA.” – Sean (67:54)
4. California Split (1974) – Gambling comedy/drama; “the best gambling movie ever made.” – Sean (69:48)
5. Nashville (1975) – Epic ensemble; “his big statement about America…like talking about the Mona Lisa.” – Sean (74:09)
6. Three Women (1977) – Dream-like psychological drama; Shelley Duvall & Sissy Spacek in a surreal friendship; “one of the great dream-state movies.” – Sean (79:09)
7. The Player (1992) – Scathing Hollywood satire; Tim Robbins as a venal studio exec; “most formally accomplished…a must for movie dorks.” – Amanda (98:39)
8. Short Cuts (1993) – Ensemble web in ‘90s LA; adaptation of Raymond Carver; “case to be made that it’s his masterpiece.” – Sean (100:57)
9. Gosford Park (2001) – British upstairs/downstairs murder mystery; precursor to Downton Abbey; “very sharp, all-star cast.” – Amanda (109:45)
10. Secret Honor (1984) – Minimal, one-man film; Philip Baker Hall as Nixon; “yellow-verging green…but one of the best of the ‘80s Altman years.” – Amanda (117:41)

Key Notable Near-Misses ("Yellows" and Recommendations):

• Brewster McCloud (1970) – Bizarre Houston-set fantasy; divisive, highly weird, Shelley Duvall’s debut. (58:38)
• Images (1972) – Psychological horror; “my flavor of, 'what if I smoked a lot of pot and this happened?'” – Amanda (67:27)
• Popeye (1980) – Ambitious studio musical (Robin Williams, Shelley Duvall); wild production history, a formative oddity.
• Fool for Love (1985) – Intense Sam Shepard/Kim Basinger drama.
• The Company (2003) – Ballet film; beautiful dance sequences, less narrative urgency.

Other Notable/Red Films:

• Thieves Like Us, Buffalo Bill and the Indians, Quintet, Dr. T and the Women, Cookie’s Fortune: Well-crafted but non-essential.
• Pret-a-Porter, Gingerbread Man, OC & Stiggs: Misfires, unmemorable, or dated.

Special TV Note:

• Tanner ’88 (1988): Altman’s miniseries (w/Garry Trudeau) is “an amazing eight-part series…one of the best things he ever made.” – Sean (115:00). Ultimately ruled out for Hall of Fame inclusion due to the show’s “movies only” rule, but strongly recommended for fans.

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Thematic Insights & Notable Quotes

• On Altman’s Influence:

  "Robert Altman is one of the most critical, maybe the most critical influences on Paul Thomas Anderson." – Sean (14:56) "He’s a filmmaker whose name has become an adjective to describe not just other films, but…phases of life." – Amanda (17:27)

• On Watching Altman at Speed:

  “Altman does force me to reckon with my own patience—especially in batches.” – Amanda (19:15) “If you are just starting your Robert Altman journey…space them out.” – Amanda (123:45)

• On Altman’s Female Characters:

  “I don’t…maybe he’s in pursuit of understanding them [women].” – Amanda (35:55)

• On the Hall of Fame Approach:

  “He’s got six or seven movies that are just absolute forever movies…you become defined by those movies.” – Sean (20:12) “There are a lot of recurring ideas and stylistic choices, but he never makes the same movie twice…he’s always cycling through stuff.” – Sean (29:25)

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Hall of Fame Final List (118:18)

Robert Altman’s Hall of Fame:

1. MASH (1970)
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
3. The Long Goodbye (1973)
4. California Split (1974)
5. Nashville (1975)
6. Three Women (1977)
7. Secret Honor (1984)
8. The Player (1992)
9. Short Cuts (1993)
10. Gosford Park (2001)

The “Blue” (Personal Staff Picks):

• Amanda: Images (1972) — “my personal recommendation.”
• Sean: Buffalo Bill and the Indians (1976)

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Notable Moments, Running Jokes & Quotes

• Amanda’s bucket hat confession for Oasis fandom: “I have one that I look pretty good in, and I match with my sons.” [09:48]
• Altman’s tendency to “hire beautiful, weird-looking people… that liminal quality of beauty he redefines.” — Sean [58:22]
• The recurring callback to facial hair as hiding male vulnerability.
• “A brownie is just…something you throw in a pan and you throw it in the oven…” [120:50]

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Closing Thoughts

• Both hosts agree Altman’s influence is vast and timeless, but “bingeing” his work in sequence is not for everyone—give the films breathing room to maximize impact.
• They express gratitude to the Criterion team, researcher Brantley Palmer, and producer Jack Sanders.
• Tease for upcoming Paul Thomas Anderson Character Draft episode, linking Altman’s legacy to contemporary filmmakers.

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For Further Listening/Watching

• The Player and Short Cuts are both cited as strong entry points and are frequently referenced throughout the conversation.
• The Criterion Channel’s Altman collection, featuring Sean’s video introduction and 20% off code: BIGPICTURE20 (active September 2025).
• Explore TV oddities like Tanner ‘88 if you fall deep into the Altman rabbit hole.

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(Ad reads, intro/outro segments, and non-content sections were omitted per instructions.)

Transcript

[A]

This episode is presented by State Farm. Life's full of decisions, big and small, and sometimes you make movie ones you can really stand behind. For example, I was wise enough to stick around through the mid credits during Ryan Coogler's Sinners. And unlike my co host Amanda, I got to see a very special sequence with a great buddy guy, among other things. State Farm gets it. Making confident choices can make all the difference. That's why with the State Farm personal price plan, you can choose the right amount of coverage to help create an affordable price for you. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by the HBO original drama series Task from the creator of Mayor of Easttown. Set in the working class suburbs of Philadelphia, an FBI agent heads a task force to put an end to a string of viol robberies led by an unsuspecting family man. Don't miss Task, starring Mark Ruffalo and Tom Pelfrey. Now streaming on HBO Max, with new episodes every Sunday. I'm Sean Fennessy.

[B]

I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is the.

[A]

Big Picture, a conversation show about Robert Altman. Today on the show, Amanda and I will build a shrine to one of the greatest American filmmakers of all time. Altman would have been 100 years old this year. He died in 2006 at 81. And he left behind one of the most influential and fascinating careers in the history of movies. So we will talk about that entire career. But first, you got home from Venice roughly three years ago. But they've just given out the prizes to the film festival and some interesting results, some somewhat controversial results.

[B]

I've seen one of four. So I spent literally my entire life all summer in Venice. I saw all of the movies except for the. That they gave awards to. I messed up. I don't know.

[A]

Well, it happens, you know, it happens at these long European festivals. You just can't see everything. And so we can talk about what were the big winners here. Probably most notably the top three. The Silver lion for best director went to Benny Safdie for the Smashing Machine, which is a film that you did see.

[B]

I did. I was at the Vermeer and I'm very happy for Benny. Benny, yeah. Overcome with emotion and it was very fun. And I said, you know, I don't think I totally connected to, like, the sports of it or the sports stakes of the movie, but it was incredibly well made. Like, once again, the images of Dwayne the Rock Johnson just absolutely beaten down on people in a cinematic, beautiful, lush score. So I'm into it. There's also a cactus scene I've been thinking a lot about.

[A]

Really enjoyed that scene.

[B]

Yeah, I've thought about it every time. Now I'm back in la, I see a cactus. So really, really happy for Benny.

[A]

Yeah, me too. Benny, we will talk to you on this show. As we get closer to the release of the Smashing Machine, he can talk about that honor. The Silver lion for Grand Jury Prize is a film that emerged, I would say, roughly halfway through the festival.

[B]

No, far later, because it premiered after I left.

[A]

I started hearing about it.

[B]

I would say, sure, yes. And it was definitely the talk, but it premiered it very late in the festival.

[A]

That's the voice of Hindra Job, which is Kauther Ben Hania's scripted film that is about Gaza. That is kind of a tragedy and has been getting a lot of people's attention. And many people have been speculating for the last week or so that this was the clear golden lion winner, in part because of the work that Honey had done in the past, but also because this is a very contemporary story about what's happening in the world right now. And it took second prize, and first prize went to Jim Jarmusch. And Jim Jarmusch has a new movie. Father, Mother, Sister, Brother.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Jim Jarmusch, one of my favorite filmmakers. Been a guest on this show in the past. This film was reportedly passed over at Cannes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you didn't get a chance to see it?

[B]

No, I didn't. And. And that was a little bit of a cell phone. I. If I had rearranged some things, I probably could have gotten there. But I knew that, you know, respect to Jim Jarmusch, I knew it had been passed over at Cannes. And I also know that it's not being released here in the US Until December. And I was like, well, maybe I can see something else and I'll have another opportunity to catch that. Joke's on me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or, you know, is it?

[A]

It's hard to say. Obviously, Jarmusch is a legend. Spike Lee was just on the show last week talking about how Jarmusch was two years ahead of him at nyu. And this is one of the most notable independent American filmmakers of all time, has never really been truly honored at a fest in quite this way. And so this is a nice thing if you go back a year. Pedro Almodovar was honored for his film at Venice with the golden lion, and not many people thought that that was his best work. The Room Next Door. So is this a little bit of a legacy prize? I don't know. I haven't seen this movie. I'm very much looking forward to it. I mean, it's Adam Driver and Cate Blanchett and Vicki Crates and a great cast. And it seems like a very expected Jarmusian drama.

[B]

I will see it. You know, it just. It didn't feel like this was the urgent. You know, out of all of the things I was trying to get to.

[A]

And lo and beholden lion, that's notable about this is that the two films that you love the most at the festival, who many people speculated would be in these prizes, which was Kathryn Bigelow's House of Dynamite and Park Chan Wook's no other choice.

[B]

Yeah, nada.

[A]

Nothing. Not recognized.

[B]

I mean, listen, the jurors spend a lot of time in Venice and movies, so they get to do what they want. I suppose it is an interesting, you know, comment on the structure of the festival. Right. Because even the Voice of Henry job was given. I believe it was the Wednesday night premiere, which is a full weekend to the festival after all of the big Hollywood premieres, after, you know, after Jarmusch, after everything that was, like, sort of shiny and, you know, you could read some political maneuvering into that and kind of what the festival values and wants to promote from its movies versus what the critics are responding to versus what the jurors are responding to. You know, it's a big festival. It's doing a lot, and that's part of its intent, I suppose. And we're still here talking about it. But. Yeah, I can't stay in Venice for two weeks next time. I really can't.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it was bold, the amount of time you stayed there. This time.

[B]

It was insane.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it was the only way to do it. But. And I, again, I had a great time. Thank you, Yasi, for, you know, keeping me out of jail. No one should spend eight days in Venice unless you live there.

[A]

Well, that's why you shouldn't go to the Thrift Festival. These festivals are difficult to conquer, and in some ways, you know, they're not designed for the American press. And if they are, it's like there's multiple.

[B]

They are definitely not.

[A]

And there's multiple correspondence for most outlets that are going, you know, you and I are trying to do the like. If you're a variety, you've got multiple people that are covering the festival over time. Anyway, both of these films are going to come to the United States, I believe. I'm almost certain. Yeah. Father, Mother, Sister, Brother is one of the key films in New York Film Festival, the Voice of Hindrance job. I'm sure we'll see stateside very soon. I look forward to seeing that. And then, you know, a couple of other titles were honored below the Clouds. The Gianfranco Rossi movie. Tony Servillo's work in La Grazia was.

[B]

Oh, right, okay. I did see. Yeah, I saw that.

[A]

Which I thought was fine. Yeah, it's like, whatever. It's a very quiet performance from Tony Sorvillo and not necessarily something you haven't seen him do before. But anyway, the Italians, you know. Yeah, they've got their own ideas.

[B]

They do, they. Sure. They are a quixotic bunch.

[A]

Yes. And Alexander Payne also has his own ideas. He was the jury president this year. Got himself into a little bit of a kerfuffle in the opening press conference. Didn't really get himself out of it with these prizes, which people are questioning, but we don't know. We don't know. Yeah, we're just two folks seeing movies, talking about them.

[B]

Doing our best.

[A]

Doing our best. Any other news that has struck you? Before we get into all of that.

[B]

Can we just talk about our weekend?

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Because I just. I witnessed the great works, you know.

[A]

Oh, yeah, you had a big Saturday.

[B]

That was Italy. And then I came home. Truly an unprecedented run of me time. On Saturday night I saw Oasis at the Rose bowl. And on Sunday night, you and I both saw. Are we allowed to say yes?

[A]

Well, the embargo was up on Tuesday.

[B]

You and I both saw one battle after another.

[A]

We did. We did. Well, how was Oasis?

[B]

Take that, Italy.

[A]

I thought you love Italy.

[B]

Eat it, Alexander. No, I really do. I do. I just. You know, it is funny that I spent all of that time and then came home and just the best of what America and Manchester have to offer.

[A]

Was give me the vibe on Oasis.

[B]

It was really fun. It was like Disneyland.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, like grown up Disney. And I say that. And I have not been to Disneyland since I was 7.

[A]

But I've been there twice this year.

[B]

I know that. But a lot of people our age, like, in their merch, in their gear, which is cute. And I didn't go to ERAS Tour. I haven't ever been. I haven't seen Beyonce. No, I have Never seen Beyonce in concert either. So this, it had what I imagined to be that vibe.

[A]

Let's not Taylor Swift and Beyonce with Oasis. Okay. These are different energies.

[B]

Successful. But it was. But that a lot of people were like, dressed up and it was, you know, their event.

[A]

There was some lad behavior.

[B]

Yeah. Like a lot of bucket hats. Right.

[A]

And never worn one in my life.

[B]

It was.

[A]

I don't think I could pull it off.

[B]

I actually. I have one that I look pretty good in.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I match with my sons.

[A]

You should wear it to the next episode.

[B]

Didn't get any merch though, because the lines were just absolutely. Yeah. People were. People really needed their stuff. It was a lot of fun. There is like a 15 minute Noel solo set in the middle. Sure. Which I get it.

[A]

But also. Yeah, man, Talk tonight. That's one of the all time great Oasis songs.

[B]

And he did it. He did Talk Tonight, but Liam was nowhere to be seen. And it's a study in aging, you know.

[A]

Well, it's just a nice echo of their unplugged kerfluffle, you know, like, I love that.

[B]

Listen, it is part of the text. It is. You're seeing it live. But like the third, he started Talk tonight and then there were two more. I don't even remember. Like, that's when. By the way, that's when you sent me the outline for today's episode and I checked it live because Noel was.

[A]

Just like, so rude.

[B]

No one's still singing, like, respectfully, I'm there for Liam. We all know I'm there for them together. But I need, you know, I need Liam.

[A]

The Noel disrespect is outrageous right now. Outrageous. Literally a genius.

[B]

Literally, he's a genius, but he also needs Liam.

[A]

I don't disagree. I mean, they're better together. They're better together. But just opening your. Opening the document during Noel's performance. Performance. Dear God.

[B]

Listen, I just like, kept going and I was like, sir, you do somewhat resemble a potato. Anyway, then, you know, they. They opened with like, you know, they opened with hello. They do the hits. Everyone can see the set list. But like, the last three songs are in order. Don't Look Back in Anger, Anger, Wonderwall and Champagne Supernova. And during Champagne Supernova, I could see this suburban waiting in the tunnel to take them home. And that's like, okay, like, I get it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm having a great time.

[A]

How start to finish? When they got on stage, how long was the set?

[B]

2:15 or 205. Yeah, they started right at 8:40.5, and.

[A]

Then that's money's worth.

[B]

And I think that the Rose bowl has, like, 11:00pm curfew, so they were done at, like, 10:55 or something.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And then.

[A]

I'm glad you had a great time.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah.

[A]

Was it hell getting out of there?

[B]

We walked a while, but, you know, I've recently been in Europe, so my. I'm used to a lot of steps.

[A]

Your core strength is high.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. That's great.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

I'm jealous. I wanted to go, and then it was okay. I've made some choices that, you know. Well, let's just transition one. We saw one battle after another. It was a very special screening. It was at the Directors Guild of America. We were lucky to go. We had a listener who invited us to go.

[B]

Can I just. May I just shout out Matthew, in particular, Matthew and Griffin. But who really, really held me down and got me the best seat I've ever seen and did the work. So thank you to them.

[A]

Yeah. My buddy also helped me, and she got me in. And the reason that I was gonna. I gave you the opportunity to go on Sunday because I was gonna go tonight at the premiere. I'm still gonna go to the premiere. I'm gonna see it a second time as soon as possible, which should tell you something about how I feel about it. But I wanted to go in part because Steven Spielberg conducted the Q and A.

[B]

He did.

[A]

And it was. We're not gonna ruin anything about the movie. But Steven Spielberg basically did the Chris Farley show at Paul, where he just sort of, like, recapped the movie and told him how much he loved and didn't ask very many questions, and that was okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We did learn a good amount about the making of this movie and what PCA was thinking about, but it's a very special movie. That's what I've been saying to people who've been asking me what I thought.

[B]

I completely agree. I was. It was. I saw the great works this weekend, but Sunday night was far and away the. You know, the experience.

[A]

So it'll be a fun month on this show. I'm so relieved.

[B]

Yeah. Can I ask you something about, like, your aesthetic choices? So PT came out with, like, a beard as well. And, you know, you're. You're veering that way, and I was just wondering whether it's intentional or whether.

[A]

I had no idea what Paul's facial hair situation was.

[B]

You were just achieving. You're headed towards your true.

[A]

I try to grow expression during vacation as often as I can. And I've just decided to keep it for now. We'll see how long I keep it.

[B]

I was thinking this about Paul, who is one of the great filmmakers and was so delightful during the Q and A. Why do men think beards are attractive? I say this to you. I say this like, why? Because the men clearly love it. And I think we're all really excited.

[A]

When you shave, I mean, look, I.

[B]

True, you know, for everyone.

[A]

But broadly speaking, I think that men like to hide.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

That's my answer to that question.

[B]

I know that you do.

[A]

I do. And there's nowhere for me to hide anymore. So I'm doing my best to do that. I don't know for him, I mean, he's waxed and waned with facial hair over the years.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Steven Spielberg has always had also incredible scarf work from. He looked great. He was wearing a delightful cardigan. Yeah, it was a very fun night. We're very lucky to have gotten to see that. And I'm going to the premiere tonight and it's at the Chinese Theater on a big ass motherfucking screen.

[B]

That's exciting.

[A]

So I'm fired up. More to come on one battle after another. Now I will say one of the reasons why I wanted to do the Robert Altman episode this month is because Robert Altman is one of the most critical, maybe the most critical influences on Paul Thomas Anderson, whose movies I fell in love with in the late 90s. And him and Tarantino and Fincher were the three people who really. And Spike and Soderbergh and a handful of other people. But those are the people who really got me into the game the way that I am now and got me thinking and loving movies the way that I do. And I thought it would be a nice bit of matching.

[B]

There are a few movies that rewatching them, knowing that it's PTA season and honestly prepping for the other episodes that we have coming. And I was like, oh, right. And I see this. And I see this. And it is. Yeah, it's well matched.

[A]

There's harmony between them.

[B]

Good programming.

[A]

Thank you. Speaking of good programming, the wonderful people.

[B]

Wow, we're so back.

[A]

We are so back. The wonderful people at the Criterion Channel were nice enough to. To program this with us. I told them some time ago that I really wanted to do an Allman episode. I've been planning on it, thinking on it for years for the show. And they said, that's great. Let's do a program together. So on the Criterion Channel right now. You can watch a great many of his films, not all of his films, but a lot of his very best films.

[B]

And with an introduction from Sean.

[A]

There's an introduction from me, opened Criterion.

[B]

They're your face ones.

[A]

Yes, my face is on the Criterion Channel, which is an honor and was a little nerve wracking, but I think turned out okay. So there's a special offer for listeners of the show right now. So if you're listening, special offer. We created a custom code for you, which is the big picture 20. It's essentially 20% off an annual Criterion Channel subscription, which is something that you should already have, honestly, if you are a listener of this show or just a movie lover. But we hope you will check it out. This will be linked in the episode description as well. You can watch all the great works there. Most of the great works. There's a handful of missing titles that are key and there's, you know, it's hard to license these titles. That's one thing people don't realize when they look at streaming services. Like it's actually hard work to acquire the rights. One of the biggest reasons why is music rights are real important, which is.

[B]

A major part of a lot of.

[A]

A lot of these works. Yes, music is a huge part of his storytelling. So let's dive into it. I think maybe we'll talk through his life and how he came to filmmaking. But before we do that, I kind of wanted to get a gloss from you on Altman because we haven't spent a ton of time talking about him.

[B]

We talked about individual films that are very important to us and obviously to the rest of the world and Hollywood and moviemaking, but we've never talked about him. I realized prepping for this episode and rewatching and also seeing some things that I hadn't seen that my understanding of the 70s as a decade, or at least what it was like in the United States is just a Robert Altman movie for, you know, because despite my age, I was not there. And so when I think of what was going on politically, emotionally, aesthetically, vibes wise, it is, you know, kind of a bunch of weirdos or stoners or people who are a little on the outside, who are rightfully angry about how everything else in the world is going but. And dialed in, but also just kind of doing their own thing and nobody's wearing a bra and how nice. And you could have sex at any time with Elliott Gould or anyone else. And it. So I guess that is an ultimately an aesthetic, but maybe also not a political Description, but like a. A state of the world, a vibe description, social thesis. Yeah, exactly. That is. Is what an Altman movie. And thus, like Altman as a person, and he is a filmmaker whose name has become an adjective to describe not just other films, but other, you know, phases of life or situations in the world. So that's the first thing that I think of. It was funny. I. You know, I had seen most of the 70s and some of the 90s and not really very many 80s.

[A]

I think this is true for most fans.

[B]

Yeah. And so I picked up as many of the 80s movies as I could, and some of them feel a bit out of time, you know, because of my expectations. Or some of them feel like, oh, okay, you're trying this now. And that's a testament to. Despite Altman being so located in a specific time, a specific time in Hollywood, a specific style, the people talking over each other, the camera moving, the, you know, very slowly, everything taking a long time. And I mean that in the best possible way. Altman does force me to reckon with my own patience, especially when watching, you know, in batches, as we did for this episode. But he did a lot. You know, he actually did. He worked for decades and tried a lot of things beyond the Long Goodbye.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's true. I mean, I think it's tricky when you've got. He's probably got six or seven movies that are just absolute forever movies, Right. That will always be a part of the American canon that will be seen as kind of critical to shaping how we see certain aspects of life. And because of that, you become defined by those movies and the 80s in particular. There are some good movies that he made in the 80s and some interesting films, but he's obviously working with more restrictions because he doesn't have as much money. He doesn't have as much kind of power and acclaim. He's in a really a low moment. And some of those movies are not good. And he's got plenty of duds. You know, it's not like with, like, somebody like pta, where he's very deliberate. He only makes one movie every three, four, five years. And every time he makes a movie, it's a big event. And your opinion may differ on certain PTA movies, but most people would say, like, his body of work is sterling. With Altman, it's kind of all over the place.

[B]

I mean, it's a volume play at some point, both in the individual films, some of which just, you know, they ramble and they run for long periods of time. But Also, the amount of work.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So let's walk through his life.

[B]

Okay. This is kind of your book report section.

[A]

Yeah. And feel free to ping back on anything that I say.

[B]

Maybe I'll ask questions because I learned a lot of this. You know, I'm cribbing from your research and your prep for the Criterion episode. You read books?

[A]

I've read multiple books about Allman's life. I reread a bunch of books for this. I mean, the thing that is always interesting to me about these kinds of characters, and we did an episode like this about Sidney Lumet. And Sidney Lumet, thankfully, had this beautiful kind of memoir, how to guide about the process of Making Movies. And that's one of the most readable movies about making movies ever made. And it's called Making movies. And it's 200 pages. And you read it and you're like, God, I know exactly who this guy is. I know exactly how he sees the world and how he sees his art. Altman is way more all over the place. And his background is really interesting and somewhat unusual. I mean, he comes from a, you know, upper middle class family in Kansas City, Missouri. His father's an insurance salesman. His mother is descended from the Mayflower family in the United States. So he comes from some, you know, hardy American stock. He's not, you know, he's not like Sidney Lumet, who grew up in the tenements on the Lower east side of New York. But his family was clearly like a creative family who could never really get their expression across. And Altman is raised to appreciate art and music and all of these things. He's also seemingly a bit of a rapscallion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, prankster.

[B]

He's also older, which I think is like an important thing. Like, this is the 20s.

[A]

Yes. He's born in 25.

[B]

Yeah. Which because of when he was so celebrated, you associate him with a younger class of filmmaker. But I think that's an important.

[A]

I think it's really relevant when you start talking about the movies he's making and how he's making them, specifically, because born in 25, that means he went to military school for high school graduates in 43 and goes right into the Air Force. And that's in the middle of World War II. And he flies 50 missions in World War II, mostly over sort of Borneo and in the Pacific, and lives like a pretty dramatic life. But he doesn't talk about that period of time from a place of trauma.

[B]

Or that's not how that generation is.

[A]

Emotionally shaping but he's also not repressed. And he's not like, I need to make a movie like Saving Private Ryan. He doesn't have that attitude towards the war. He gets out of the. I mean, at least in terms of what he has shared in these various books over the years. But after he finishes his service, he moves to California and he's like, I want to make movies. I want to make movies, and I want to meet girls. These are the things that he wants to do.

[B]

Cool among us.

[A]

You know, very relatable, content. He makes friends with a guy and they think they're going to be writers, and they start coming up with ideas for movies. This is in the mid to late 40s, same. And they're like, sure, yeah, hate me.

[B]

That's not true. I never thought I would be a writer.

[A]

But it is a very common thing that you see where people are like, I can do it. I have good ideas. And they do actually sell a couple of treatments. There's a movie in particular called Bodyguard, starring Lawrence Tierney, who many people will know as Joe from Reservoir dogs. But some 40 years before that, he was a star of many gangster movies in Hollywood. And this movie, Bodyguard, he thought was gonna be his big ticket. The problem is that he was not allowed on set and he was not allowed to write the screenplay. He was only allowed to come up with the ideas. And he did this one or two times and then got very frustrated and was like, why am I not. Why can't I crack through the glass ceiling of Hollywood? The same thing that so many other people have encountered. And this kind of seems like one of the origins of his outsider anxiety and one of the reasons why he's always interested in people who are outside. Even though he's kind of a rich kid, you know, he's not really some downtrodden young man. So he decides he's going to be a playwright. He's like, I'm going to move to New York. I really want to be a filmmaker, but they won't let me be a filmmaker, so I'm going to move to New York. And he's driving to New York in his car with his friend, and on the way, he stops in Kansas City, where he's from, and he runs into a friend in a bar. And the friend in the bar is like, what have you been up to? And he's like, oh, I've been in Hollywood making movies. And he's kind of talking himself up. And the guy's like, oh, interesting. I make movies, too. I work for this Company called the Calvin Company and we make industrial instructional videos. Not videos. They weren't video, they were film at the time. And Altman's eyes grow wide because he doesn't really want to be a playwright, he wants to be a movie maker. And he goes to work for this company and he stays in Kansas City and he makes like 50 plus industrial videos about like 40 minute films about how to play football or how to change your carburetor, these very straightforward things. But he has a real knack for visualizing and executing. He gets noticed pretty quickly. He gets hired in 1957, so you've got basically 10 years of doing this. Gets hired in 57 to make an independent film in Kansas City called the Delinquents about crazy teenagers, which is all the rage in the 50s, the rise of rock and roll and the crazy teenagers. And he makes like a very serviceable 80 minute Teen Panic movie set in the suburbs of Missouri. And there's a young actor named Tom Laughlin who he did not really like very much, but who went on to become kind of a star in the 70s. He was the star of the Billy Jack movies. And he just so happened to get this guy in this movie, this movie gets noticed. He then gets hired very quickly thereafter to make a documentary about James Dean who's just died in a car crash. He doesn't seem very fond of this documentary, but it gets a little bit of notice. And then he gets a call from Alfred Hitchcock's production company who's like, I saw the Delinquents. I heard about this James Dean documentary. I'm starting a new show called Alfred Hitchcock Presents. Why don't you come out and work on my show? Pretty good phone call to get if you've been trying to make movies now. He's already in his late 20s, he's already been married once, he's already had a kid.

[B]

He's no, he's like 30s if it's laughed at the 50s. And he's born in 1925.

[A]

Yes. By 57 he's 32.

[B]

Yeah, it just, I mean, not to age shame anyone, but I do think.

[A]

That he took his time.

[B]

The age is interesting.

[A]

Yes. He's not a wunderkin. And the point that you're making is that in the new Hollywood, which he would eventually become a part of, most of the people who are making movies then are these like 25 year old whippersnappers who haven't done anything, you know, wet behind the ear. Steven Spielberg, who's like also roaming the Sets of shows like Night Gallery and learning how to figure out how to make movies. But he comes over and in 57, he gets hired to work on TV and he spends 10 years making TV shows. And he makes worldly birds. Peter Gunn, Ruth 66, Alfred Hitchcock Presents. He's well known for directing over a dozen episodes of Bonanza, which was the biggest show on television in the 60s. And he's just like a hired hand. And he's very good on set. He's very good with actors. He's very good at improvising in tight situations. And then he finally gets a chance to make a movie. And that movie is called Countdown. We can talk about it a little bit more when we start going through the actual hall of Fame.

[B]

It's included in the Criterion streaming collection.

[A]

Currently it is. It's a Warner Brothers film that has real stars.

[B]

It's September 2025, if you're listening. I can't guarantee for the future.

[A]

Yes. Who knows how long it will hang on? But, but you're right that he's an older guy and he's more like, I think of him like John Frankenheimer or Sam Peckinpah or Peter Yates, these guys who made movies about when men were men, but during the new Hollywood. So they're a little bit different than that. They're a little bit more transgressive and weird. But he's doing the same thing that those guys are doing. He makes a lot of genre movies. He bounces around. Actually, Steven Spielberg said this last night. He said, I think of you, Paul, the way I think of someone like David Lean in that he never made the same movie twice. And Robert Altman, even though there are a lot of recurring ideas and recurring stylistic choices, he never makes the same movie twice. He's always like, okay, now my Western, now my gambling movie. Now my old time gangster movie. Now my love story.

[B]

A ballet movie.

[A]

A ballet, A fashion movie. Hollywood, you know, this is a movie about broken down people in the West. This is a movie about, you know, friendship among women. This is like. He's always kind of like cycling through all this stuff. And even though he's like. Seems like kind of a sarcastic, cynical prankster, arguably one of the great humanists in movie history, at least in the second half of the 20th century, where he, like, really likes his weirdos, I would say yes.

[B]

Or he doesn't judge them.

[A]

Doesn't judge them.

[B]

Exactly. And has and. And understands that they're interesting, that doesn't mean that he protects them. Which is. Which is Very different. But yeah, I like a. He a deep understanding and curiosity about how strange people can get.

[A]

He clearly is in. Influenced by what's happening in European Cinema in the 50s and 60s, but maybe not in the same way that, like, Dennis Hopper was. You know, like, it takes a little while for him to kind of metastasize a lot of that stuff into his system. But I don't know his. All right, let's talk about his hallmarks. Like, the things that, you know. You're watching a Robert Altman movie. If so, what I talked about in the introduction on the Criterion Channel is like, subversion at all costs.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's no, like, regular war movie. There's not. This is not a normal detective story. This is not. If it's a Western, there's not going to be big gunfights and shootouts. People will die, they'll get shot, but it will not be in the way that you expect. You mentioned stylistically the overlapping dialogue, which you also know is a hallmark of 40s screwball comedies. But he takes it and applies it to drama and to satire.

[B]

Yeah. And also amps it up. I mean, at some point the people are overlapping and speaking over each other in a way where you're like, I don't actually understand what anyone's saying, or I need to ISO this track in order to follow it. Which is again, the point. And to your point about subversion, he is really trying to get your attention that way. But yeah, I mean, I think if there is one. If you had to pick one thing to define Altman esque, it's a lot going on at once. Defined by the overlapping sound.

[A]

Yeah. It's cacophonous. And also the idea of accepting that you don't have to understand and hear everything clearly because that is how life works.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When you're in a noisy room, not in a room like this where we speak very quietly to each other, but in real life, at Oasis, you couldn't hear.

[B]

No.

[A]

All. How many? Thousand.

[B]

I could hear Noel.

[A]

Yeah, you could hear. Thankfully. Thankfully. Had a microphone. And that. There's an. There's. It's not. It's a heightened realism in his movies. It's not. It's not the real world. But people do seem normal and they seem. Often they're grounded in realities that are fantastical. That's probably the best way to describe the world that he creates.

[B]

And. But they are also incredibly fantastical, bordering on surreal. A lot of time. And he has a real zest for that, you know, and so there Is a. There is a weird Altman set piece that is really often involves like a lot of people marching around in a marching band, you know, but the various marching bands of life, he sees them everywhere.

[A]

He does.

[B]

And, and, and really wants to, to. To make it real.

[A]

Well, one of the like key reasons for this choice, I think, I don't know if I've ever even heard him say this, but that cacophony of sound from music and people talking over each other is that one of the problems of the world is that no one is listening to each other. They're just trying to say what they want to say. They're just trying to get their point across. And even not all of his movies are about the social problem in the country, but a lot of them are. And period pieces are about contemporary times and contemporary pieces are about the past. And the way that they're like lies and dishonesty and aversion are kind of what is rooted in the American experience. And if people don't listen to each other, you can't get anything done.

[B]

Something related to that that is also a through line is he's interested in a show and in a performance and how to some extent everything is a performance and what someone is putting out in the world or what someone is trying to be versus who they really are, you know, and there are literal versions of that. The Paul Newman, Buffalo Bill movie. There are Hollywood versions of that. You know, that is in a lot of ways the Player is about how fake Hollywood is. But it's a through line. And you do always. You often see like the structure of someone putting on some sort of performance.

[A]

Totally. You can see it in Nashville, like one of the through lines of that movie. That is, I think, a through line of a lot of his movies. It's true of California Split. It's true of the Company. It's true of a lot of the movies where people are forward facing is like also, if people do hear me, if they do, I will be redeemed as a person. I will be more special and more important if I have a voice in the world, which is a very powerful idea that is very contemporary. That's the thing is, I think if you start to pull these movies apart and think about what their themes and ideas and what's interesting to him about them. Most of them still really just work right now. Some will feel more like the Player will feel more contemporary than something like images. But hey, don't I like it. I'm not criticizing it. But that is a movie that Feels very much inside the 1970s. And that's another thing too is like I've mentioned this on the Criterion intro. Not a lot of male filmmakers making films about women at this time. You know, a lot of the best movies of the 70s are like two guys in a bank trying to do something terrible or dirty cops or someone trying to exorcise a demon out of a young child. And over and over again he makes movies about women. I'm very curious for your opinion if you think he understands women. I've often wondered if he understands women. But he has this unique male perspective on women, which is like, they're kind of crazy, but they're so interesting. You know, that's kind of. His female focused stories are always seem to be about that. And he has empathy for them. Obviously.

[B]

I. I don't maybe he's in pursuit and of understanding them. And I think in some ways he's also in pursuit of understanding his male characters. It's maybe less controversial for him to be like, these people are kind of crazy. But I like, you know, we've. We've bought into that by watching these movie stars in this period of time. But yeah, I think he's at least trying. And aren't we all?

[A]

Every day he certainly I am. Yeah, I'm trying to understand women every day and getting further and further from the truth. You know, you mentioned also stylistically, he would not be described as the most rigorously formalist filmmaker. That's not really his thing. His films can be shambolic. They really. They can move slowly. They kind of take their time. And that is metastasized in the way that the camera moves in his movies, which is these very slow zooming, roving movements where it almost feels like the camera operator is trying to figure out where to go.

[B]

Yeah, to me, it feels like when I am doing the airplane spoon before I'm trying to get in, I'm like, no, this way. Here it comes. Slower, slower.

[A]

But then. Exactly. The boop is when he does a slow zoom and then holds on someone's face and when he finds someone's face who he likes or who he's interested in or who is in crisis. You can learn a lot about what he thinks about them and what the movie thinks about them and how they're feeling just with the movement of a camera. To me, this is super sophisticated. It's not like original, but it is like a tool that he goes back to over and over again where he lets the camera sit quietly on a person thinking about something right and who among us would not like to be understood in our weakest times, you know, with the power of a camera, 100%. Why do you think I talk for a living about how I feel?

[B]

I don't know if I do, but maybe, you know, that's another thing.

[A]

You're trying to protect yourself. I'm hiding, but I'm speaking. You know, you're withholding, you're protecting.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

And maybe that's why some of the Altman movies make me, if not uncomfortable, a little.

[A]

Total McCabe and Mrs. Miller energy. Yeah. You know, I am McCabe and you are Mrs. Miller. That is literally how those characters define themselves.

[B]

Tough break for us.

[A]

They are like, outwardly, she's outwardly strong and needs to be known that she's not one to be fucked with. However, the vulnerability, it's a little harder to come by. McCabe is like, Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Here's why I'm great. Here's why I'm great. Here's why I'm great. And he's a sad, weak boy, you know, so these movies are very powerful. Any other thematic things that. I mean, obviously, he's like the king of the ensemble. He's amazing at making movies with 15 characters. Mash is his big breakout. Nashville is like this. The Player is like this. A number of his movies have huge casts, and they're hard to keep up with. All the characters and the movies don't flow in the same linear narrative expectation that you might have for a movie, and that's okay. And when we talk about PTA and you look at a movie like Boogie Nights, sure. A lot of Nashville in Boogie Nights. That's true. There's a lot of Scorsese. But there's also a lot in Nashville where it's like, this is a world I'm going to plunge you into. The world you're going to understand. All these little peccadillos about the people in this world, and you'll get a snapshot. You won't get the whole story, but you'll get a sense of what it means to be this character in this part of time.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, there's a tremendous amount of shortcuts in Magnolia very much. You know, and, like, I have this Magnolia seems like the closest of this is what I'm gonna do as a. In a great way.

[A]

Undeniably, Shortcut's sadly not a part of the Criterion grouping. It is the best movie that is not in that. In that collection right now. We'll get into it when we start talking about it. But that's a movie that obviously had a massive impact on a lot of our favorite filmmakers and is rarely seen. So we'll get into that soon. Here just a short list of other filmmakers who have cited Altman in part because I think certainly this empath. There's like a. There's a bitterness to a certain kind of a movie that I think you and I historically connect on. We just talked about J. Kelly and the kind of lack of bitterness.

[B]

I was about to say, except. And that's true that that is kind of my hurdle. But Jay Kelly has like a direct Altman tribute basically to kick off the movie.

[A]

And I mean the studio. Seth and Evan's show literally has a character named Griffin Mill who is the character from the Player in that show. So you've got. Those guys are obviously influenced by it. Wes Anderson has said time and again how much he loves Altman, which is interesting because Altman's very messy and Wes is very neat.

[B]

Yeah. But the ensemble and the specific, the interest in weirdos and also getting the people where he wants them to get emotionally, you know, like you really can feel it even as he is like dioraming to a within an inch of his life.

[A]

And I think also using stories in the past to talk about the present is something that they both do really well. Inaritu, you know, we're not the biggest Inaritu fans on the show, but he obviously looking at ensemble stories, looking at stories where time is kind of fractured and you're not totally sure linearly where you're going with everything. I mean, the safdies, especially in the use of kind of like normal people or people you don't expect to see on screen. They both have an incredible eye for just grabbing the unlikely star and plugging them into a movie. That's something that Altman, he didn't necessarily invent it, but it was pretty rare in Hollywood movies to take first time performers or people who are not very seasonal. I mean, Shelley Duvall's career is entirely indebted, I think to Altman. Just kind of grabbing her and plugging her into five consecutive movies and then pta. And PTA is notable in part because he became friends with Altman. Not just an influence, but he sat beside him during the production of Altman's last movie, A Prairie Home Companion. Some say he co directed the movie. They're obviously out of respect. They're not saying that. But Altman was very sick during the making of that Movie. It was the last film he made before he passed away. So I thought it would be helpful to talk about Entry point. There's probably some people listening to this show who've never seen a single Robert Altman movie. Our producer, Jack Sanders.

[B]

Yeah, Jack, what did you start with?

[A]

What did I start with? Oh, Secret Honor. Oh, wow.

[B]

Okay. Weird.

[A]

That's an interesting one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What led to that? Truthfully, I had to make a dinner reservation and it was 90 something minutes.

[B]

Great. I love the honesty.

[A]

So honest. Yeah.

[B]

And that is. Listen, that's how it works sometimes.

[A]

Well, Secret Honor, of course is one of Paul Thomas Anderson's favorite movies. It stars Philip Baker hall as Richard Nixon and Philip Baker hall, of course was the star of Hard 8, PTA's first movie. So nice synchronicity there. Cinder Donna is a great movie. Fucking amazing.

[B]

Great. Okay.

[A]

My entry point was the Long Goodbye, which I think will be most familiar to movie fans because it's a detective movie, but it's not really a detective movie like you've ever seen before.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it does capture both the like slack laconic sense of the seventies and Elliott Gould Starr Persona, but also is like really kind of a bitter and hard hearted movie with a really tough ending. So for you, what do you think would be the best place for someone to start?

[B]

The Player and The player is 90s rather than 70s, but it will give you a sense of the rhythm, the style, the perspective, the bitterness.

[A]

It is one of his also most formally accomplished movies. It has that amazing tracking shot at the beginning. The sound technology is better than it was in the 70s. It's a little bit more slick and very watchable and funny.

[B]

Yeah. So that's a good call, especially if, if you're starting now in 2025. I feel like 90s can then be a bridge to the 70s. It's not contemporary, but it's maybe more contemporary.

[A]

Agree. Did you get to the Player yet, Jack? I did.

[B]

Did you do Long Goodbye?

[A]

I did.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, what's your biggest hole right now? Maybe images.

[B]

Okay, okay. That's not that big of a hole.

[A]

I've done pretty. All the very, very Blossoms.

[B]

You did the hits.

[A]

The mega, mega hits. Okay. Yeah. Altman's a funny one because like so many of our favorite directors has been hugely honored but never like got over the hump at best director. So.

[B]

Yeah, well that's a them problem, you know.

[A]

It really is.

[B]

That's an academy.

[A]

He does have this very cool honor of being one of four filmmakers and it just became four filmmakers who have won the Golden Bear at Berlin, the golden lion at Venice, and the Palme d' or at Cannes. And the other three are Henri Georges Clouseau, Michelangelo Antonioni, and then just this year, Jafar Panahi achieved this because he won the Palme d' or with it. It was just an accident. He won an Emmy for directing Altman. He was nominated for five directing Oscars. He was given an honorary Academy Award in 2006. Great speech. If people haven't heard it, they should listen to it. He had a heart transplant and he talked about how he thought he would make 20 more films because he had 20 more years left. Sadly, he did not. He was nominated for mash, Nashville, the Player, Shortcuts, and Gosford Park. Two of those movies are nominated for best picture. Nashville and Gosford Park. Hard to believe only two of his movies are nominated for best picture. And that's it.

[B]

A legend. I mean, now I'm just like, oh, should I have said Gosford park instead? But no, I think the Player's the right one.

[A]

Gosford Park's an interesting one because it obviously sets up an entire cultural industrial complex. You know, there's like Julian Fellows, it's.

[B]

True world of content that we're still living in.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You up on Gilded Age?

[A]

I started watching the first season on vacation and I was enjoying myself and I promised both my wife and Tracy Lutz that I would watch it.

[B]

I also promised Tracy, but then I fell asleep on the plane. So I'm gonna get through season three. Ok. Okay. Once I was prepping for this, you.

[A]

Know, it was fun. Yeah, it was fun. It's not as good as gossip. This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter. Keeping your house clean when you've got a cat is no easy feat. But with Pretty Litter, you don't have to choose between a fresh house and a healthy cat. This litter is practically magic. It's low dust, controls odors, and lasts up to a whole month. But the best part, it monitors your cat's health every time they use the box. Plus, Pretty Litter ships free right to your door. So no heavy bags to carry and no last minute pet store runs. Right now. Save 20% on your first order and get a free cat [e-mail] bigpicture that's pretty litter.com bigpicture to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Pretty Litter.com BigPicture Pretty Litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases. A diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian. Terms and conditions apply. See site for details. This episode is presented by State Farm. You know what's even more impressive than being an expert at movie trivia? Being smart about saving money. And a great way to do that is by choosing to bundle home and auto insurance with State Farm. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply. So the hall of fame.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, he's made a lot of movies.

[B]

I haven't seen all of them.

[A]

Okay. I've seen every single one.

[B]

Well, that's great.

[A]

They're not all right.

[B]

I did my best.

[A]

They're not all.

[B]

I did my best.

[A]

Well, here's the tricky thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Some of these movies, like, do not exist anymore.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's a movie from 1980 called Health, which is a like a health industry spa satire that bombed very badly and was part of his kind of like epic fall in 1979, 1980, which was coincided with basically the fall of the new Hollywood and the rise of 1980s Hollywood. And for whatever reason, this movie is just not available. It's not available on Blu Ray, it's not available on dvd. It's not available. I'm sure there's a vhs. I don't own it and it's not streaming and you just can't really watch it. I'm sure it's available on Internet archive or YouTube or something like that. And I have seen it in the past in one of those formats. But. But there's going to be A couple of titles that are like that. Like A Wedding has never been issued in America on Blu Ray. That's one of his better movies, I think, of the 70s, but it doesn't have the same legacy because it hasn't been restored by a collection. They haven't acquired the rights. And it may feel a little more slight compared to some of this other stuff. So I'm just flagging that for people. You may have a little bit more trouble tracking down stuff, but the wonderful rise of physical media has brought a lot of these movies back.

[B]

Yeah. Though I have to. I borrowed one from the library and I have to tell you, I ran into region difficulties.

[A]

Oh, you did?

[B]

Yeah, it was Italian. Italy Strikes Again.

[A]

I thought it was Spanish. Is it Italian?

[B]

I thought it was Italian.

[A]

Okay, that's another movie. Pret A Porter is not available on Blu Ray. I don't know. I mean, it's a Miramax movie. That might be why. But Pret A Porter was his first movie after the Player and was a big, noisy movie and didn't do that well at the box office and then just kind of vanished. And this happens over and over again to his movies. You want to do the haul?

[B]

I do.

[A]

Okay, we'll start in 57 since. Or. Yeah, we'll start in 57 since that's officially his first film.

[B]

Yeah. You like to do it?

[A]

This is. It's almost like he made a Roger Corman movie without Roger Corman. And you can definitely see signs that he's going to be able to do something cool. But it's very modest and is definitely not.

[B]

So this is the James Dean story or the delinquent story?

[A]

No, the delinquents. James Dean story technically comes. Comes out after the delinquents. But the James Dean story is.

[B]

You made the spreadsheet now.

[A]

I know. So that's. Wikipedia's wrong. I just copy and pasted it from Wikipedia. Both the James Dean story and the Delinquents are critical because they get the attention of Hollywood. That gets him out to Hollywood to make TV shows.

[B]

But you're not going to make an argument for like, this should be like the. We have to start where it started.

[A]

He just made too much stuff. He doesn't have that tidy.

[B]

Like, I agree with you.

[A]

But he made a TV movie. It's incredible.

[B]

On hall of Fame.

[A]

Did make the Spielberg hall of Fame. We never did a Spielberg hall of Fame.

[B]

We did rankings.

[A]

We ranked them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He's got a new movie coming out next year.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I guess he Was able to take some time off from that to laud Paul Thomas Anderson.

[B]

He's seen it three times. He said, yeah, that's great.

[A]

I gotta catch up to Stephen. So the James Dean story, which is kind of a straight ahead, like, news bulletin style documentary about the late great actor and the delinquents are not in Countdown. Did you watch this one?

[B]

I did. It is included in the collection. My review is that James Caan looks extremely hot as an Oscar.

[A]

I knew you were gonna say this. I knew you were gonna say this.

[B]

I mean, this is an interesting. Because it's about the space race. It's a sci fi space race movie, but it's 67. So it is before the US landed on the moon. And this script is. The premise of the movie is like a sort of crazy plan to get a man on the moon before the Russians. And it's not actually how we did it. Ultimately, the plans were revised.

[A]

But it is kind of an interesting script. It's a cool story. It is like kind of an unsuccessful movie in my opinion.

[B]

But, you know, it's all of your favorite new Hollywood actors, like with crew cuts and in the tight astronaut shirts. And as we know, I like this period of space history. So I was interested you enjoyed it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It's not bad. Altman was fired off this movie in post by Jack Warner. Okay, well, Jack Warner, I think, like went on a vacation after Altman got hired and he was like, don't let this guy pull his. This shit he tries to pull on television. And then he pulled his shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then got booted off of it because he introduced the overlapping dialogue. He introduced, you know, the unsteady camera and you can see like the early makings of the things. But it still is kind of like a tight studio drama.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it still feels like from another time. Countdown's not going in.

[B]

No.

[A]

That Cold Day in the Park. Do you see this?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. This is the movie that is probably most neatly matched to images. It is.

[B]

Well, now I'm Mad.

[A]

A psychological exploration of a woman who is very lonely and thinks she has found love. But in order to hold that love does very strange things. This was a Canadian financed independent movie that he made very quickly after Countdown. He kind of got pushed off of Countdown just so he could make something again very quickly. Sandy Dennis is the star. It's very European is what I would say. And so this is the polarity of Altman as a Hollywood filmmaker. In two movies, you've got one thing that's like A studio job that he's trying to do while also trying to secret in some of his stuff. And then you've got a very odd character study that is not commercial at all. But if you like art house cinema, there's a lot that you will take away from that cold day in the park. It's also definitely not going out. Okay, all right, 1970 MASH.

[B]

This will be going in.

[A]

So this is definitely going in. Yeah, this is. If you have not heard of the movie Nash, which was one of the biggest hits of 1970, one of the biggest hits of the 1970s. One of the. Obviously the launch point for one of the biggest television shows in the history of the medium. It's a movie set during the Korean War about surgeons working essentially in the battlefield. And it's a wildly irreverent comedy that helped to launch the careers of Elliott Gould and Donald Sutherland. It's a quote unquote, outrageous movie. Now, I will say, never one of my favorites. Not a movie, to me, that. That I would like hoist up and say, to me, this is cinema. Yeah, I do understand why it was a smash, why it kind of cemented him. The story that I told on the Criterion intro was that this movie was being made concurrent to Patton by the same studio. 20th Century Fox had all their chips on Patton. George C. Scott in this big biopic written by Francis Ford Coppola, who would go on to win an Academy Award for that script. And they spent a lot more money on that movie. And Altman makes MASH and he gets it in under budget and on time. And they're just. He's just like, please don't pay attention to me.

[B]

Leave me alone.

[A]

Yeah, just. Let's get this movie out. And it took off because it's got nudity, it's got cursing, it's got blood. It's got all things that you just don't see in movies in 1970. And it blew up. And he kind of gets to do whatever he wants for a very long period of time because of the success of this movie. But for me personally, it feels like a movie that my parents love. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

I agree. I think also, like, my parents actually did love Matt did. And I think, you know, this was maybe not as early as Diner, but one of the ones where they tried to show it to me fairly early, especially because the TV show becomes such a part of, like, pop culture, stretching throughout the 70s almost to when we were born. I. I wonder. I feel the same way. Where it's like obviously going in and, you know, Donald Sutherland and Elliott Gould are very hot and like doing their charisma thing that Altman isolates and kind of propels both of them through the 70s. But I wonder if it's because of the order in which we saw it and also that we didn't see it in 1970, like during Vietnam. And it sets up a lot of the other things, not just his career, but stylistically the types of movies that he would make. And, you know, we respond more to the gambling movie or the Hollywood movie than the Vietnam movie. So it's just a little bit about when we receive it.

[A]

I think that's right. But he does do something in this movie that you mentioned before, which is that he's putting on a show in this movie, in the surgery room, on the football field, during the game. There's this sense of the circus has come to town in a lot of his movies, and this one is definitely one of them. He also does something cool, which is that his son Michael writes the lyrics to Suicide Is Painless, which is the sort of the theme of the film and would become the theme of the TV show and become one of the most heard songs of the 1970s. And Altman works with his kids and his family on all of his movies and builds this kind of like clubhouse mentality on all of his work. And when you see Gould, you see somebody joining the troupe who will occur over many movies. And there's a number of other actors who are in MASH who you'll see over and over and over again. I mean, let me just see who in this one particular. I mean, this is Robert Duvall's second movie with him at this point. Sally Kellerman appears over and over again. Rene Auberje Noir appears over and over again. John Schuck, a lot of these actors, Bud Court, you just keep seeing them because he kind of falls in love with kind of like beautiful, weird looking people. That's kind of his thing. Like, he's very la. Gould is like very tall and handsome, but also not right. And that liminal quality of beauty he kind of redefines with a lot of other filmmakers, like how you're allowed to look on screen. And I found that to be very appealing. And actually the people like Michael Murphy, who's like a more standard, handsome guy, he often relegates to like bureaucrat or bad guy.

[B]

They look square, they look. They're not interesting.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. So that's a cool feat. Now, you mentioned the 70s and how it's a Pretty crazy time. One of the cult favorites of his is the next movie that he makes, which he makes immediately afterwards, Brewster McLeod.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

One of the weirdest movies, this movie. The takes on this movie veer from the wildly negative, from Quentin Tarantino, who calls this, like, one of the most incompetent movies ever made, to, like, our friend Griffin Newman, who. It's like, one of his favorite films ever.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I'll say, yeah, just sit somewhere in the middle.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think it feels at times irreverent for irreverence sake, but has some great scenes, some great music.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Again, it is putting on a movie, putting on a show.

[B]

Right. Then the literal marching bands.

[A]

Yep, marching bands.

[B]

Oh, that's right. Yeah.

[A]

There's all this music and sound and there's a weird serial killer plot.

[B]

A lot of birds and.

[A]

Birds.

[B]

Birds. You know, that's my one word.

[A]

But I think this movie agrees with you about birds.

[B]

It does. It knows that something's up and that you can't trust it. So if, like, if all of his other films are exploring how we can't trust the American government, this is like, we can't trust the birds. And I would agree.

[A]

This is a movie about a kid who lives in a nuclear fallout shelter who wants to fly. He wants to build wings and fly. He's met by an angel who will help imbue him with the power to fly, played by Sally Kellerman. And there's also a murderer in Houston, and he may or may not be the murderer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Very odd movie. I like it. I would say it's yellow, tilting red.

[B]

I don't think it's going to wind up going in, but I'm fine with a yellow.

[A]

Okay. He made this real quick. Yeah, it bombed. It bombed very badly.

[B]

It's memorable, all of the Astrodome stuff. And the final sequence is very memorable.

[A]

I believe that this is also Shelley Duvall's first movie.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And for that reason, it is important because she'll come up a few more times in a row, but we'll say Bruce and McLeod. Yellow. Also, looking at the PTA connection, it's not quite the same age gap, but a little bit of licorice pizza in this. Oh, sure, yeah. And the older gal and the younger boy. Yes, sure. That's a very good point. Where did you fall in that age gap? Discourse? No comment. Okay. 1971, McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

[B]

Yeah, this is another green.

[A]

This is definitely going to be.

[B]

This is pretty famous.

[A]

This is a famous one. This is a famous one.

[B]

He did Good.

[A]

Warren Beatty, at the height of his fame as one of the handsomest, most bankable stars in Hollywood, opposite Julie Christie, with whom he had a romantic relationship. He plays a man, comes to town who's got big dreams for developing a western town. And he falls in love with a madam who's working in the town, running a brothel. And we learn very quickly that all capitalists are vulnerable. Sad boys, I think is one of the takeaways from the film. It's his riff on a western. It's based on a novel and it's an anti western. It's pretty simple. It doesn't flow in the same way. There is an enemy force that is pursuing the McCabe character. But it takes a really circuitous route to get to its conclusion. It has this unbelievable four song score from Leonard Cohen that powers it. Some of his best cinematography. I think it's Vilma Sigmund who shot this movie. And it looks like it's in like a haze of lights.

[B]

It built the entire town. And it's a beautiful part of the Pacific.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Is it?

[A]

I thought it was like Montana.

[B]

Yeah, that seems right.

[A]

And yeah, if you've liked the movie Horizon, when they build the town, you know, just think about McCabe.

[B]

We've talked a lot about how he picks unusual stars or not like traditional.

[A]

No, you're right. In the Pacific Northwest, Washington.

[B]

But you know, this is. It's Warren Beatty and Julie Christie. But there is something funny and Altman esque in a good way about how he isolates just the absolute bullshit in Warren Beatty, which is an essential part of Warren Beatty's both, you know, on screen and off screen Persona and what we understand about him. But to use someone as traditionally handsome and charmed and make him this kind of fast talking loser is with a.

[A]

Beard and a bowler hat and hiding, hiding the same way that we were describing earlier. Just a very shrewd and beautiful movie. Personal favorite of mine. I have three posters of this movie.

[B]

Okay, what are the three origins? Yeah, tell me the breakdown of the three posters.

[A]

Two are the same poster at the same size and one is just a different image. I think one of them is the Japanese version of the poster.

[B]

Okay, but there it's the same image. It's the same.

[A]

No, the Japanese poster is a different image.

[B]

Okay. All right, I'll pull them up. Why do you have two?

[A]

One was gifted to me.

[B]

Oh, that's nice.

[A]

Because this is a. This is a real me movie in college.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Where you're kind of like you're discovering stuff you like. And you're like, yeah, this is not like High Noon. It was at all.

[B]

This one over, like, in college.

[A]

I probably saw them around the same time.

[B]

Okay. I mean, I feel like, you know, in college, all the boys I dated, including my husband, are the long goodbye college boys.

[A]

Yeah, I'm. Yeah, it's okay with me. I. I just think all of these movies in the 70s, we'll get into them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With a couple of exceptions, are wonderful. So images.

[B]

Yeah. I had never seen this. Watched it, Fucking loved it.

[A]

You did. So tell me about it.

[B]

Okay, so this is. It's about another woman losing her mind. In this case, played by Susannah York.

[A]

And co writer of the movie.

[B]

She has a beautiful country home in, I believe, Ireland, where a lot of this is happening. And so it's. She is. She's in this country home and she's having delusions that are presented as real things happening. And so it's her husband and a friend slash lover who kind of keep being switched in and out. And it's filmed, I guess, like, you know, realistically. So there. There's no indication of, like, oh, this is a dream and this is a real. And so she doesn't always know who she's talking to, or she thinks she knows who she's talking to, and then they're also being duplicitous, but is it she who's being duplicitous? And then. And, you know, ultimately bad things happen, but in an awesome house, and they make a lot of spaghetti and. And have a lot of wine. And I liked it a lot.

[A]

It's a very. It's a very confounding kind of movie because the narrative is very. It's very loose.

[B]

Yeah, but. But it's one where you ultimately want. You don't need to know which one it is. And at some point, the narrative is that you don't really know what's going on. And it is filmed beautifully. And also in such a. The story is confusing, but it's sort of like a straightforward filming. So you're like, okay, I'm just gonna go with this. And I guess we're all just gonna hallucinate together.

[A]

Yeah. It's a callback to that cold day in the park and that he does kind of toggle between these big, epic ensemble stories like McCabe and Nashville. And this is a very. As tight a character study as you can do. Right. I mean, it was really like three people in the whole cast of the movie, and it is intentionally kind of confounding and, like, the same way.

[B]

Yeah. But it's not. Like. It's not an M. Night Shyamalan movie, you know? And it's like, you don't. Yeah. And you're not. So I don't need to figure out that. Hey, did you ever watch the Sixth Sense, Jack?

[A]

Yeah, I did.

[B]

Okay. Did you? And it wasn't spoiled for you.

[A]

It wasn't spoiled for me.

[B]

Yeah. So. But you're not waiting for. I see dead people you don't want.

[A]

To get a verdict from. Well, did you like the movie?

[B]

Thumbs up.

[A]

Thumbs up.

[B]

Thumbs up. Okay, great. Yes.

[A]

Okay, great. Glad we got that on the record. You know, I don't mean to mischaracterize it. It's more just that it is. It is like a Bergman movie. There's another movie that is just like a Bergman movie. It's clear. It's clear. He watched Persona and was like, that's so cool how Bergman will just swap a character mid movie and not explain himself. And you'll understand that we are in the dream state, and that identity is this. This. This thing that can. There's transference in our understanding of who human beings are and what our relationship is to them and what our own psyche is versus someone else's. You know, it's very heady.

[B]

It's very.

[A]

Like, I smoke a lot of pot, too. Like, a lot of his movies are like, I smoke a lot of pot, and what if this happened? That would be fucking crazy. Which I enjoy. If not taken too seriously.

[B]

This is my flavor of, I smoked a lot of pot, and what if this happened?

[A]

But interestingly, this is basically a psychological horror movie.

[B]

Yeah, but it's. It's. You know, that's psychological being the key word.

[A]

Okay, Would you put images in?

[B]

Let's yellow it.

[A]

Okay, we will yellow it. Definitely a fan favorite. If you're like big Altman fans. Admire the audacity and the oddity of this movie. 1973. The Long Goodbye.

[B]

Green.

[A]

It's going in green.

[B]

Green, green. Great movie.

[A]

It's a great movie. It's a very. It's a very fun movie and a very sad movie. It's a very beautiful snapshot of Los Angeles at this time and that amazing elevated apartment complex that he lives in with the hippie girls who are always topless and just kind of ambling through convenience stores and police stations and residences. Then watching it again this time, Mark Rydell is so fucking menacing as the gangster who's threatening him, who smashes the bottle on his girlfriend's face. All that stuff is so fucking raw. And that's the other thing is that we're. He. I'm joking about him being a stoner, but like he could make a movie with a little bit of menace sometimes, you know, there's. There's like some real danger in this movie as well.

[B]

So I think when we moved to Los Angeles, I thought it was going to be like Clueless and my husband thought it was going to be like the Long Goodbye.

[A]

Yep. And it turned out it's like to live and die in la. So that's going in quite obviously.

[B]

Yeah. I think this is my second most. Or maybe it's my most seen.

[A]

But yeah, just because you have a partner who's also really into it. Yeah. 1974. Thieves like us. Did you end up watching this?

[B]

I didn't.

[A]

It's never been one of my favorites. This is a period piece gangster movie starring Shelley Duvall and Keith Carradine as he's an escaped convict and he's on the run with his buddies John Schuck and Burt Remsen and they're Robin Banks and they're making trouble. And. And it's funny, I do feel like a lot of filmmakers like to get a movie like this off their chest. Richard Linklater made one called the Newton Boys. This is somewhat similar. It's never been a personal favorite of mine. It did fine. There's a lovely addition from Vinegar Syndrome of this movie. So if you like it, I would recommend checking it out. But to me it is red. It is not in the hall.

[B]

That's fine with me.

[A]

1974 California split green.

[B]

Speak on it.

[A]

This is my favorite Robert Allman movie. Yeah, it's the best gambling movie ever made. Elliott Gould Returns.

[B]

Is that just. Is that from a communicating like the spirit and the or of gambling or is it that they are playing poker correctly?

[A]

It's both. I mean, I think that there is certainly like technical aspects that are very accurate because Joseph Walsh, who wrote the movie and Altman were gamblers. And you get the impression that. That Gould and George Siegel as co star in the movie, got into gambling because they have a real facility with the language and the energy that gambling. So there's like, there's accuracy, but to me it's more like there is a. There's a vibe like a kind of comic chaos that if you're having a crazy night in a casino. And I'm not saying I do this all the time, but I've had nights in casinos where I'm like, I've been in the side of this space for seven hours, and I have lost a lot of money and gained a lot of money in a short period of time. I don't play the same games that all these characters play. But there's the middle ground of gambling, Even if you're very calm, is like chaos inside your body. Like, anything can happen.

[B]

I mean, you've seen me at the table the one time I hated it, but I don't. It's funny. When I am watching this movie, I don't totally feel stressed out in the way that I felt stressed out sitting next to you.

[A]

I think it's because it's not like there's $10 million on the table and. But the thing that I really like about it is that it's a movie about regular people. It's not a movie about high rollers. And so George Siegel's character is literally a magazine editor and kind of just abandons his life to go throw himself at gambling. And he makes great friends with Gould, who you can tell is trouble right away.

[B]

Yeah. But so charming. So I just. It's like Elliot Gould sitting at the table with all the old ladies, being like, come on, let's.

[A]

And this is a movie where, like, the way that the dialogue is recorded and then dubbed in, this movie is so entertaining because, like, again, when you're at a poker table, everybody's talking, and they're all talking over each other and at the person. One person's talking at the person over there, and the other person's talking to you over here. And it just feels like what it feels like to be hanging out. Obviously, I didn't live in 1974, and I wish I could have for some reason, but this movie really nails something very true and very funny. And also, I think Anne Prentiss and Gwen Wells are very good in this movie as the two gals who sort of, like, kind of fall in love with them, but also know that they're.

[B]

Trouble and just kind of floating around.

[A]

Yes. And again, like, you can see Burt Remsen again in this movie. Walsh makes an appearance. Jeff Goldblum pops up in a very early performance in this movie. So it's green. It's a huge personal favorite.

[B]

All right, one more green.

[A]

Okay, one more green. For sure.

[B]

What if we were just like, you know what? Everyone knows about Nashville, so we're not putting it in.

[A]

There's so many movies to go. Nashville. This is.

[B]

Yeah, this is the one. Well, it's his calling card. It is his most celebrated big statement. Movie.

[A]

It's his big statement about America and how it works and electoral politics, stardom, the act of creation, intimacy and relationships between people, what the country stands for. It's made in the shadow of the bicentennial and the 200th anniversary of the country. And it's like 100 character pieces all strung together about all of these people descending upon Nashville for this celebration concert during an election year, during this celebration. And it's a very long, beautiful, very shambolic movie. Not like a tightly knit masterpiece in that way. It doesn't feel. It feels like you can feel him discovering the movie as it's going along. He really favored improvisation. The smartest thing that he did, the coolest thing that he did with this movie is that he had all of his actors write the songs that they perform in the movie. David Carradine, especially, who wrote I'm Easy and won an Academy Award for it. Whose play is this kind of like heartthrob singer, songwriter, ne' er do well, who keeps entrapping women in relationships that he has no intention of committing to. Is utterly amazing. But, yeah, this is a hard one. It's a little bit like talking about the Mona Lisa.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You know, where you're like, yeah, it is critical to the history of art.

[B]

It does also verge on the Mona Lisa where you're like, yeah, I know. You know, it's like, how many times do you want to look at the Mona Lisa? Even though it is the foundation for everything that came after it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, I do Nashville and it is a little bit. Because it is three hours long and he's finding it. Sometimes I'm like, huh, okay, like. Like, I get it.

[A]

You have to try to open yourself up to every single character.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which not, not. Not everybody will. Yeah.

[B]

Also a lot of singing.

[A]

You know, I love that.

[B]

No, it's amazing in this, but sometimes I'm just like, oh, and another performance. Yeah, it's a.

[A]

It's a very long movie that is really hopscotching from character to character. And it takes a long time to realize what the connections are in the film. But I think it's beautiful. I've always liked it.

[B]

I'm not like, it's a real.

[A]

Like, it's better to see this on a big screen movie. This is not a movie that works well on streaming, in my opinion. No offense to our wonderful friends at Criterion, but, like, if you get a chance. When I first moved to la, I saw a triple feature of Longaby, California, split in Nashville at the UCLA Film Archives. And it was a crazy day. You know, that's like nine hours a week.

[B]

Yeah. When did it start?

[A]

It was probably at noon and then went all the way through the day. But it was really, really special. And, you know, Nashville, after seeing Longaby and California Split, is a lot to ask, but it just. It felt bigger and deeper in that environment. And it's a movie that, like, I think if you want to understand a lot of your favorite directors totally. There's a really good segment on the Criterion Channel of Steve James, the documentarian, talking about Nashville and the impact that it had on him and the way that he used some of the methodology that Altman developed for this movie to make documentaries. And it's beautiful. And. Yeah, it is an auto green. And it's a movie that, like, it did well and was a big deal at the time and was. You know, Pauline Kael raved about it, and it kind of. It got its flowers.

[B]

It's funny to imagine Nashville just premiering, you know, and it hadn't existed before, and then it. Now it exists because it's literally 50 years ago, and we live in a post Nashville world, and it has influenced so many of the filmmakers. But, you know, if you were just seeing it for the first time.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's like watching Mean Streets a little bit where Mean Streets, you're like, oh, I see. Where all of this is like source text.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And sometimes source text is maybe not as powerful once you've, like, gotten Goodfellas or you've gotten, you know, Boogie Nights or something that you just have, like, a deeper personal connection to. And. But it was both a big deal at the time, and I think kind of like it hangs in there for him canonically, of course, in a way that it always will. Okay, so Nashville's in.

[B]

Okay, so how many do we have? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[A]

Okay, we're getting to the back end of the glory period now. Buffalo Bill and the Indians or Sitting Bulls. History Lesson is the Paul Newman film that you referred to. This is a film that had stymied me over the years, but that I really clicked into when we did our Paul Newman episode. And it was because I think I read a lot more about the movie at that time and the way that it was made. And Paul Newman had been wanting to work with Newman for a while, or Paul Newman work with Altman for a while.

[B]

And it is also a movie about Paul Newman. Yeah, in a lot of ways. And so when you're watching it in the context of trying to Understand his career and his stardom. It does really click in.

[A]

It does. So it's a story of Buffalo Bill Cody at a kind of later stage of his showman Persona. And Newman obviously relates to this because he feels like kind of a charlatan and he's like this beautiful person with all this mythology around him. But he feels very kind of, like sad inside and unresolved. And he relates to the way that this movie kind of pitches Buffalo Bill and all of the people around him in his world. It's a very cool movie about the lie of the American myth. That's kind of what the whole thing is about. It looks good. It sounds good. A lot of the older school Hollywood stars didn't like working with Altman that much. Beatty famously did not like working on McCabe. Burt Lancaster did not like working on this movie. He thought it was going to be absolutely terrible. Turned out to be pretty good. But I would recommend it. It is red, I think, in the. In the canon of Altman. But I'm a fan of this movie.

[B]

Agree. It's not going in, but it is very cool. And it. And I do think if you're doing a Newman project also, that's the way to seek it out.

[A]

It's a good one to click through for sure. 77 three women green. Yeah. This will probably be the last auto green for a while. We already mentioned Bergman, but this is the one that most people point to for Persona. Sissy SpaceX and Shelley Duvall as two people who swap their. Their psyches in real time. One of the great Dream State movies ever made. Very beautiful production. His first spa movie, not his last.

[B]

Would we call it a spa. I mean, elder.

[A]

Elder care style.

[B]

I have thought about the. I mean, that's some of the tension. Is it? Right. It's like, how much spa or care are the. Are those sad people getting? I've thought about the elder care a lot. Shelley Duvall is like one of the Altman players. But the sissy space act performance here is lights out.

[A]

Yeah. She's amazing in this. I think in the immediate aftermath of Carrie as well, which is just an amazing stretch of time.

[B]

I hadn't seen this until we did the 1977 draft.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you rightfully told me no, this is the one that you want. This is one where maybe he doesn't. He doesn't understand women, but understands the dynamic between or at least lets them find it on screen.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like there's two ways to think about it. I'm curious what you think about this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That sometimes in female friendships that there's, you know, there's like, power dynamic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that, like, the power dynamic can swap, but also within a. Within a woman, there is, like a power dynamic, like, within one person. And that some days you are like this, and some days you are like this. And the movies seems to be kind of.

[B]

Well, I'm not specific to women. Are you not? Some days like this, and some days.

[A]

Like this, there's not. Historically, I don't find that there are power dynamics among male friends.

[B]

No, no, no, no. As a single person, there are.

[A]

It's so funny because Alex Russell was on the show talking about Lurker, and he was like, there are power dynamics among friends. And I was like, sure, man.

[B]

Well, friendship is sort of the Tim Robinson.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Is about that. And I liked that because, you know, guys historically don't get that treatment. Also, you do have some power dynamics, but you are just hiding from them and you don't want it. But we can, like, offline that.

[A]

Interesting. The beard strikes again. I think within myself. I don't know. It's hard to say.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think. I think I'm pretty vulnerable most of the time. I think there are things I'm protecting myself from. Of course I'm here.

[B]

I think that's nice. I think it's nice that you want to be vulnerable. That's good. That's. And that you think that you are.

[A]

What am I not revealing? What pain am I keeping from you?

[B]

Well, maybe it's just that we don't talk about it. You know what I mean?

[A]

We don't talk about it.

[B]

Yeah. Or we just. It's.

[A]

You're very mean. It's hard to be vulnerable to someone who's mean.

[B]

I'm direct.

[A]

Sure. That is a word for it. You can be tough.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You know, but to those who will accept my foibles.

[B]

But I also accept your foibles. Okay. We just don't have to talk about them.

[A]

Just support them, though.

[B]

Yeah, of course I do. I'm, like, here every damn day.

[A]

We should make a move.

[B]

Watching Robert Allman movies for three months while on leave so we could do this for you. I accept you and who you are.

[A]

What? What? Should we make a movie called Three Men? They're all about me. Yeah, that'd be good. Three Women is a. Is a fabulous movie. And, like it is. Clearly he'd made a couple of movies that were sort of leading up to this, but I think it's his best movie of this kind. That he ever makes and is definitely going in. And that gives us six in 1977. And we have 30 more years of films to go.

[B]

I think we expected that.

[A]

I am not as expert on a lot of these movies. Many of these movies I've only seen one time. Okay. But 1978, I already mentioned, is a short film to track down.

[B]

Yeah. I wasn't able to.

[A]

I would highly recommend it. It is all about two families coming together for a wedding. It is an observational comedy that, like, you could see Rob Reiner or Nora Ephron making this movie. It would feel a little different. It would not feel as kind of frantic. It would feel a little bit more kind of staged.

[B]

But does it follow your wedding rules, your movie wedding rules?

[A]

It does.

[B]

Okay. Do you want to restate that for people?

[A]

Movies that open with weddings are. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. It doesn't.

[B]

Yeah. Movies that close with weddings are a.

[A]

Problem are not to be trusted. But movies that open with weddings are.

[B]

Clueless closes with a wedding.

[A]

Well, there are exceptions to rules. And I'm willing to note that Clueless is a wonderful masterpiece. A wedding is not going in 30 years.

[B]

This summer we did nothing.

[A]

It was 30 years this summer. I felt like Blank Check was doing their Amy Heckerling thing, and I was like, I don't want to stomp on that.

[B]

But, you know, that was.

[A]

We'll do a Clueless thing next year.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

31.

[B]

31 and shining 30th observed. Just like me.

[A]

That's right. That's right. A perfect couple. I'd only just seen this movie for the first time this year, and it's a weird one. It's a little confusing because there's a new show on Netflix called the Perfect Couple, starring Nicole Kidman and Leah Schreiber.

[B]

Oh, sure. The Ellen Hildenbrand adaptation. I watched all of it. Whatever you say, it wasn't that good. It was also not filmed on Nantucket, but they're making another Ellen Hildebrand adaptation, and they were doing a casting call while I was on Nantucket.

[A]

Is it a remake of Three Women?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

That would be good.

[A]

A Perfect Couple. You should check out. It's a rom com. Paul Dooley and Marta Heflin. And they play an unlikely pair of people who are matched via a dating service. And they don't have a lot in common. Marta Heflin's character is in a band in kind of like a post punk new wave band.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And Paul Dooley is like a real square type Guy. So it's the scissors wish fulfillment a little bit, and they find ways to be connected. And he kind of tries to become a part of her life as a musician, as this, like, bohemian type. Lots of music, you know, as with a lot of his films, a lot of live performances of music where you're like, okay, this movie for the next four minutes is just gonna be this band doing a song. It's. It's a. It's nice. It's not. It's a little underrated or underseen, but it is not special, in my opinion. So not going in the hall of fame Health.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I already mentioned this.

[B]

Yeah. I haven't seen it.

[A]

Its satire is that it is effectively like yet another political satire about almost like a presidential campaign. But it is in the context of these two kind of warring older women in this battle for the right to this health club. I'm trying to remember who the two women are. One is Lauren Bacall.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And the other is, I think is Glenda Jackson. Carol Burnett's in this movie. James Garner's in this movie. It's got a really cool cast. Paul Dooley and Henry Gibson from his troupe. There's a very funny moment where Dick Cavett appears in the movie and he sits in a hot tub between the two candidates and interviews.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But I've only seen the movie once. I would like to see it again and not, like in a shitty vhs. And I don't know when that's going to happen. But maybe by making this episode, people will find a Brazilian Blu Ray that they can share with me so that I can observe these movies all over again.

[B]

You think that. Are there a lot of niche Brazilian.

[A]

There are a lot of foreign Blu Ray companies.

[B]

Sure. And they're really getting into the Altman deep cuts.

[A]

You never know.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You never know. The best foreign stuff is probably from Australia at this point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Setting aside England, Australia is making imprint. They're doing some crazy.

[B]

When can we go to Australia?

[A]

I know we were talking to Elizabeth about live shows and where we're going next year. And it was like, should we go to Australia?

[B]

I almost say Australia.

[A]

We have some Australian listeners.

[B]

The thing is that I would want to go. We would have to finish Oscars and then get on a plane, because I want to be there in Australia in summer.

[A]

I mean, it's not the worst idea I've ever heard. Okay, but you. So you want to do Australia and then Cannes?

[B]

Yeah. No, it's a lot.

[A]

I think that would be a little challenging.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, well, we'll mark it. Health is getting a red.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

1980, Popeye. This is an interesting one. This is an interesting one. Not a movie I've ever loved personally, but I did see it at a very young age. Maybe this is the first one I saw on Criterion. I said it was the player, but maybe it was the. This movie on television as a kid. That's very possible. It's very possible. This is the first time I ever saw Robin Williams. Wow. So Robin Williams plays the legendary cartoon character Popeye, the sailor man who loves Smidge. And Shelley Duvall plays Olive Oil, the role she was born to play. And this is one of the biggest fiascos in movie production history. Went way over budget. They shot in Malta.

[B]

Barry Diller recently gave an interview where he said this is the most coked out film experience he's ever been a part of.

[A]

Yes. Williams, of course he had his struggles.

[B]

They were like shipping them and shipping the cocaine and film canisters.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

To Malta.

[A]

Yeah. It's weird because this is actually not. Altman was not like a crazy, we're going way over budget kind of a filmmaker, but this movie starts to epitomize. It's not quite Heaven's Gate, but it's approximates to like the out of control nature of the Hollywood auteur and the way that things can get away from them. He was hired by Dino De Laurentiis to make this movie. Altman just kind of an odd hire for a Popeye movie.

[B]

Well, isn't Altman at this point. Oh, did we. We skipped Quintet completely.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. We did.

[B]

Yeah. But we're not.

[A]

We'll have to go back to it.

[B]

Yeah, that's another one we talked about in the Paul Newman movie. Paul Newman episode.

[A]

He's had a few bombs in a row.

[B]

It doesn't go well and it's not going in. So. So isn't Altman like a little bit like, looking for cash?

[A]

He's looking. Yes, he's looking for cash. He's got his own movie studio, Lionsgate, that he eventually sells. Not the Lionsgate that we know now. It's Lionsgate. Two words. And he's been trying to use that production company to support movies by Alan Rudolph and other filmmakers. And he's struggling. He's pulling a coppola where he's trying to expand the purview of his work. And it's hard quintet this 79 movie starring Paul Newman, which I think we talked about very briefly, but is about a post apocalyptic world in which A game called Quintet will define the power in society. And it's kind of like Megalopolis in that it's a really audacious and interesting idea with not the best execution. It's a very slow movie, features some extremely hallowed European film actors and Newman in this very quiet, reserved performance. But that bombs. A perfect couple doesn't do well. Health bombs. He takes the Popeye job, things get a little.

[B]

He gets out over his keys.

[A]

Yeah. But it doesn't do, like, that badly, you know, like, it's kind of a success. Another reason I love this movie is that Harry Nilsson wrote the songs for it. My favorite singer, songwriter. And He Needs Me, which. Which olive oil sings will eventually become basically the theme to Punch Drunk Love.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so who did I. Who was I just speaking with who told me that he needs me? Was there song that they got married to?

[B]

That's cute.

[A]

That was their wedding. Their first dance at their wedding. Shit. Oh, it's my friend Mike. Of course. My friend Mike emailed me and he.

[B]

Was telling me about that.

[A]

Well, this was like 15 years ago, but it was very nice. So the score is really nice. The production designs are really good. It is a movie about Popeye. You kind of need to get on board with that. And it's a nice matching with Eraserhead and how hard it is to take care of children. That's also.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna yellow it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's fine.

[A]

Okay. It's definitely one of the most well known Altman movies, right?

[B]

Well, I mean, that's because it's ip.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Respectfully, you're right.

[A]

This is his Barbie.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Relax. I mean, the set is not, you know, that it is visually.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Pretty interesting.

[A]

The costume design and the production design.

[B]

Has that sort of, like, surrealist, but, you know, know, like, actually made.

[A]

I totally agree. 1982. Come back to the five and dime. Jimmy Dean. Jimmy Dean.

[B]

So this starts the I'm just adapting plays era.

[A]

So in the late early 80s, he basically leaves movies to go make, to go direct plays.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he spends roughly 18 months directing plays. And this is one of the plays that he directs. And he likes it a lot. So he decides to make, you know, I would. I guess this got a theatrical release. But a lot of the next few movies are more or less TV movies. They're not necessarily premiering on abc, but they are much smaller productions from much smaller companies. This was distributed by Cinecom International Films. I don't know what that is, but it's based on the play by Ed Gratchik. It stars Sandy Dennis, who he worked with in the Cold Day in the park all those years ago. Cher, Karen Black. It's about a number of women who gather in a Woolworths Five and Dime and worship James Dean.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And have friendship and relationships and emotional explosions. I think this movie's just. Okay. Some people really love this movie.

[B]

It's a good adaptation of a play and I think it's an interesting play. But it is, is it. Is that it is one set. I mean, there are. There are a number of flashbacks that I guess are handled well and not. But yeah, it's. It's nice. I was, I was like, hey, it's Cher.

[A]

Yeah, it's a. It's a good Cher performance.

[B]

I just, you know, in the middle.

[A]

Of like a really good period of Cher movies. Right. That's like right around Moonstruck and Mask and everything that she's doing before. But I'm going to say red for Come Back to the Five and Dime. Jimmy Dean.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

Streamers. I just saw, I have a DVD of this movie that I had never watched before. It stars Matthew Modine as a soldier and basically same thing. It's a play written by David Rabe in the barracks in the army. And there's a queer guy in the company and he's kind of having a hard time deciding whether to come out and how to exist inside this company. And then there are all these kind of fractious experiences amongst all these guys. Very minor work to me. Not really very good. And you can kind of feel him figuring out how to shoot enclosed spaces in these last two movies that we're talking about. And I'll say so Streamers is red. And then Secret Honor is, I think, where he figures out how to do that. And he's helped a lot by this Philip Baker hall performance, which is just bravura. But the blocking in the movie is really cool.

[B]

Yeah. And the design and the use of other screens. There is visual interest and depth. And I mean, it helps also that it's a movie, an imagined portrayal of Richard Nixon. And so you also, like, you've got tapes, you have a lot of media embedded into the text just because of who it's about. That helps texturize it a little.

[A]

Yeah. It is like a 90 minute one man rant. But visually it is actually one of the most dynamic and plotted movies that he's ever had. So this is like yellow verging on green for me. It's Definitely one of his better movies from this period. Maybe probably his best 80s movie, I would say.

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

I like fool for Love as well.

[B]

Yeah. Well, Sam Shepard, your boy Sam.

[A]

I know Sam Shepard looking very handsome and Kim Basinger looking very striking.

[B]

He's using a lasso.

[A]

Yes. Two lost people living in the desert.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Harry Dean Stanton is in this film as well. This is a very. This is a good adaptation, I would say. And it's good to get him out of a space and into the open world.

[B]

Well, he looks good three spaces, you know, but they use, you know, like a little compound, but he gets to move around some horses.

[A]

Shepard, you know, he's got incredible presence, and this is a really good use of him. And this is his play. And he knows the material really well. And Kim Basinger is a little over the top, I would say, in the movie. Just a little bit.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, the. Yes, she is. The material is also a little over the top.

[A]

Sam Shepard plays her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They've got a high dramaturgical.

[B]

What's the other power? What's the woman, the, you know, with the big hair who shows up in the car? What's her name? The Countess. Is that. What, like, does she have a name? Anyway, that's a lot, in a very 80s way.

[A]

Her mother, you mean? Oh, the countess. Yeah. Deborah McNaughton.

[B]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't have to go in, but it's. This is also available on Criterion.

[A]

It is. Let's yellow it. I would recommend watching this movie if you like his movies. If you're starting to review Sam Shepard.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you like Sam Shepard. 1987 Beyond Therapy is an antic comedy that I don't think is very successful. It's funny. When we did the 87 movie draft, Roger Avery was saying that he liked this movie, or at least that he was very familiar with it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I don't think anyone ended up drafting it, but I thought it was pretty dated and didn't work that well. And the same is true, I think, of the next movie, 1987's O.C. and Stigs, which is based on a National Lampoon cartoon about these two high school kids who get into trouble. This movie was actually made in 1982 and sat on the shelf for a number of years. That's never a good sign, and it's not great. It has some admirers. It feels like him either trying to do or portending the, like Porky's John Hughes 80s Teencom. But he doesn't have, like. He doesn't have the ear for the youngins, you know?

[B]

Yeah. Or for. I mean, comedy relies so much on timing and pacing. And he is on his own time.

[A]

Yes, he is. This movie is also not tight. And a movie like this needs to be tight.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I'll say no on Osi and Stigs, Vincent and Theo. I rewatched for the first time in a long time, the first hour of it last night, and I was like, how is this even made by Robert Altman? It's not good.

[B]

It's so turgid, I didn't get to it.

[A]

It's ostensibly a portrait of Vincent Van Gogh and his brother. And Tim Roth plays Van Gogh as the pained artist. And the one formal trick is that it cuts between a kind of a Christie's, like a real life Christie's auction that is auctioning off Van Gogh's and using that as a contrast point between the actual drama of Van Gogh's life and the kind of agony with which he created under. But I thought it was very unsuccessful going back to it. And then that is an important movie because that's the last movie he makes before he comes back.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And he comes back in such a big way in 1992 with the player.

[B]

Okay, so we have six right now, six greens, three yellows, and the player will be our seventh green.

[A]

Yes, the Player. Based on the Michael Tolkien novel. A satire, like a satire of a satire, really. One of the most inside baseball movies ever made that also appealed to audiences. Was a hit. Is extremely funny, really acid burn sense of humor. Great Tim Robbins performance at the center of it as a duplicitous studio executive who accidentally does something very bad and then needs to maneuver his way through the travails of Hollywood. A good match for the long goodbye in terms of the seedy underbelly of Los Angeles and what you think you know and what you really don't know. It's a great movie for movie dorks.

[B]

Exactly. It's a primer. It's, you know, it's funny. Like a very dark satire in many ways. Feels like the best explanation of Hollywood as it still operates. And there are individual scenes that I think of every time I'm reading one of the trades, whether it's, you know, the. Any of the maneuvering of the schedules and trying to get the scripts or the very last Julia Roberts performance, which we, you know, I don't want to spoil if you haven't somehow seen the Player, but it's all really good.

[A]

It is automatically going in. It is a personal favorite. Both of ours did a very fun episode of the Rewatchables about it some years ago. So if you check it out, look for that, the next movie. You were foiled in your attempt to see this movie. No, you've seen it. You did see it.

[B]

I have seen it.

[A]

Did you rent it?

[B]

Internet Archive. Thank you so much.

[A]

Good job. That movie is pret. A porter.

[B]

Oh, no, no, no, no. Oh, you're.

[A]

You're going out of work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, I skipped shortcuts. Oh, my God. Yeah, I apologize, but I have.

[B]

Whatever. Shortcuts. Green. Let's do it.

[A]

It's an automatic green. This is. You mentioned Magnolia. This is a similar. It's similar to Nashville in that it features many characters and it is about one city and the crazy happenings in that city all across one day. In this case, it's Los Angeles. It's based on a series of Raymond Carver novels, and it is similarly fractured and a little confusing as to how these figures relate to each other. And they don't necessarily fully converge, but they do make sense to one another.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They start crossing over in exciting ways. Just cooked my noodle the first time I saw it. I absolutely loved it. It is very long. It's very hard to find, but it is, I think, maybe his most beautifully written movie.

[B]

Yeah. Very. Very emotionally involving and upsetting. I think it screened recently here in la. Yassi went. I didn't get to go. Where was it?

[A]

It was. I believe it was at the Arrow. And it does not screen very often. There's not a lot of prints left of this movie, as far as I know. And it is. There's a case to be made that it's his masterpiece, I think.

[B]

Yeah. In doing my rewatches this time, I found that I responded to it more than Nashville, which, again, it's more recent. It's more recent.

[A]

More stars you are, like, have a bigger relationship to.

[B]

And it is also a little bit like the Nashville thing of. It's always existed to us, so. And everything else is in response to Nashville.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And this is. It's funny because it's. It's not as grand a statement about the country or creativity or politics the way that Nashville is. Right. Nashville is so 70s because it is so thematically bound. This is a movie about people, right? About, like, the pain and the vulnerability and the mistakes that people make and, like, the situations that they find themselves in. A lot of his movies, too, are really good about being like, you're 37. And you're stuck. A lot of his characters are just stuck. And this is a movie full of characters like that and people who desperately need each other but don't know how to say the thing they need to say to make things right with the other person that they're with. Or like, if they're cheating, why are they cheating on their partner and who are they cheating with and what does that say about them? Like, this is just a very. You know, Carver stories obviously are very, very observant about that nature of human behavior and relationship. But this is a very. A darn good movie. I wish it was easier to see, honestly. But it is going in. And does that give us nine or eight?

[B]

Eight. I think Player was seven. Shortcuts is eight.

[A]

So let's go to Predator Porte.

[B]

Okay. This I had seen before, but like in the 90s. Because it was Joey Roberts. Exactly. It was sort of a buzzy thing. I don't think I saw it in theaters because I was 10, but. But I would have sought it out at some point. And I'll be honest, I was very puzzled because I was young and. Is Pret a Porter the first Robert Altman movie I ever saw. It could be.

[A]

Could be 94. It takes place during Paris Fashion Week. It is a similar convergence of a number of different characters. I think primarily Kim Basinger is a reporter. Julia Roberts is a journalist. Tim Robbins is also a journalist. There's like a number of designers. There's real life designers, real life models who figure prominently. The movie is like kind of. Kind of a dud. It's not really super successful. You'd think that this would be a place where he'd be able to do his stuff. But you don't ever get the impression he actually cares about fashion all that much.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or at least like the kind of the art of fashion that it's more like. It's just the scene is the thing that is portrayed here, which I guess is a viable space for an almond movie. But I'm not a huge fan of this one.

[B]

And maybe he's also. I mean, the thing is, is that fashion is. Is like a business and hugely commercial. And he is pretty skeptical of most of that stuff. So yes, probably not interested in. In portraying that.

[A]

Okay. Preta Porter.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is red.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

96. Kansas City.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Also a really good film. Not one of his like all time classics or anything, but a period piece set in. I want to say it's the 30s in his hometown. Also set amidst an election. Incredible performance from Jennifer Jason Leigh in this movie. Haven't seen this in some time. I remember really liking the music. It has kind of a rote criminal plot, criminal political plot behind it, but very solid. But he's kind of firmly in his back nine back five even with this movie, but worth checking out. The Gingerbread man is a Kenneth Branagh adaptation of a John Grisham novel.

[B]

Okay, sure.

[A]

That came out amidst this flee of Grisham adaptations. Let me just make sure I have all my info correct on this one.

[B]

What is the plot of either the Grisham novel or the adaptation?

[A]

I'm going to read it to you right now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So Branagh plays a divorced lawyer who thinks he's going to have a one night stand with a woman. But he finds out he's in love with this woman. She's played by Annbeth Davitz, and he offers to help her with some problems and most significantly her unhinged father, who's played by Robert Duvall.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

She claims that her father is stalking her. And so this guy helps her, the lawyer. But then by helping her he realizes that she has actually ensnared him in kind of a plot. So it's like a noirish them thing.

[B]

Now is it set at Christmas? What's going on?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

But the Gingerbread man, that's a good question.

[A]

I can't remember.

[B]

I saw this movie in the 90s, the Gingerbread Man. Okay.

[A]

So yeah, it's like a twisty plot. I think it's. I don't know if this book was ever published. I think it might have just been a story that Grisham wrote. Okay, here's the thing to keep in mind here. This movie cost $25 million and it made $1 million at the box office. This is kind of a movie that doesn't really exist. Robert Downey Jr. Is in it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Daryl Hand is in it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The fact that you haven't seen it, let alone heard of it, should tell you a lot about how much this doesn't exist. Yeah, well, you know, Branagh fan that you are, Grisham fan that you are.

[B]

An Altman, but that's an unusual Mad Libs, those three.

[A]

It is. So the Gingerbread man is not going in.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Cookie's Fortune is another fun ensemble dramedy, like black comedy about a group of people in Mississippi. Very, very good performances in it. Not the most memorable movie. Glenn Close, Liv Tyler, Charles S. Dutton, your boy, Chris o'. Donnell. Yeah, it's the same thing. Like people kind of crossing over into each other's lives. It's fine. It's red. It's not going in.

[B]

How are the Mississippi accents? Respectful.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know how to judge that. I've never known how to judge that. Dr. T and the Women is a movie I always wish was better.

[B]

This. I saw it when it came out or shortly thereafter because I had moved into Entertainment Weekly nerd territory. But this felt like it immediately was like a. A useful. The title itself is just a pop culture punchline, you know, like, I mean, it is. It is a funny title. So I never really took it seriously and I didn't revisit it.

[A]

It's about a wealthy gynecologist.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Played by Dr. T, played by Richard Gere, and the many women in his life, among them, Shelley Long, Helen Hunt, Farrah Fawcett, Laura Dern, a lot of blonde women. He has a type. They're all sort of in love with him. They're all sort of annoyed by him. It's a rom com. Yeah, it's a proper rom com. It's not. It's not super successful.

[B]

Dr. T, would you trust someone named Dr. T to deliver your children? My answer.

[A]

Man or woman? No.

[B]

I'm gonna need a full name.

[A]

Okay. I think Dr. T could be reliable. I don't want to see his face on a. On a. Like a. An advertisement on the subway.

[B]

Right. It has that editor or a billboard here.

[A]

I don't want that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Dr. T is out. 2001 Gosford Park Green. Yeah. This movie is nominated for best Picture. It's an upstairs, downstairs murder mystery.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Unlikely movie for Altman to direct. Right. A British chamber drama.

[B]

Yes. And does, like, really baked in and understands all the conventions of the genre. You know, it is, as you said, a Julian fellow's script. He went on to create Downton Abbey and the Golden Age. Perhaps you heard of them. And so it. It does ultimately upend what you expect from these movies, but it plays. It's not that it is like, you know, sticking to type throughout, but formally and. And. And visually, it is very, very familiar with the genre. And so really, like, I think, brought a lot of people in who were just expecting Downton Abbey, which is possibly how it got nominated for so many Academy Awards.

[A]

Yeah. It was also a huge hit. It made almost $100 million at the box office, which is just remarkable for a movie about old British people. And it was Altman and Bob Balavan's idea, and they gave the idea to Fellowes to write it. And I wonder if I like this movie more because it was Altman's idea, but Fellowes dialogue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're on the verge of seeing Downton Abbey 3 in theaters. I really like Downton Abbey. I always have. I've always liked the movie. I do think it is pretty frothy. You know, it is not. It's not very deep. I don't know if this movie is deep per se, but it's very sharp. You know, it is. It has an edge to it.

[B]

I think it has more emotional depth than Downton Abbey. With respect. Because I mean just world historical events are happening on that one at a. At a huge clip.

[A]

It's also. I mean, obviously Maggie Smith is in the film as well, but it's Kristen Scott Thomas, Michael Gambon, Clive Owen, Kelly McDonald, Helen Mirren. Like it? Is it an all star cast of great British actors. So if you have not seen this one, you definitely should seek it out. Two more.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The company, which is his ballet drama, which has some cool stuff in it.

[B]

I mean the. The ballet stuff is.

[A]

The dance is amazing.

[B]

It's the Jaffrey Company. And I watching that just, you know, there are not enough ballets committed to film. Like. Like in an artistic way.

[A]

He shoots them beautifully.

[B]

I didn't remember a story by Nev Campbell when I.

[A]

So that's who trained as a dancer.

[B]

Listen.

[A]

And wanted to tell a story about the world of dance. And she and James Franco and Malcolm McDowell. And it's a kind of a baddie performance movie. The performances are quite strange and the plot is not really all that. That urgent. But I really like how this movie looks.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'll give it a yellow tag.

[B]

We have center stage, you know, so. But I. This is you. Do you still have never seen it?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh my God. There's just a lot of joy awaits you. Mamma Mia. Center stage.

[A]

Yeah. Mamma Mia. Coming soon. The Amanda Seyfried Oscar run. That's gonna be a big one. No. The testament of Anne Lee. Also not honored at Venice. We didn't even mention that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Another interesting.

[B]

Listen, the Italian, I guess I liked it. I hope it sells.

[A]

2006 A Prairie Home Companion. Yes.

[B]

I saw this in theaters. My Lindsay Lohan era.

[A]

I did as well. Lindsay's pretty good in this.

[B]

She's good. Yeah.

[A]

She plays Meryl Streep's daughter. Right. In this film. This is based on of course the Garrison Keillor show. And is this similar kind of collection of performances. Performance is the like a huge thing throughout his career. But you can see in kind of the latter stages of his career, people who put on a show kind of fascinate him. It's also obviously very clear in the company and even in the upstairs. Downstairs in Gosford park, where sort of like the downstairs is kind of performing for the upstairs and the upstairs is.

[B]

Also performing for each other.

[A]

This kind of. This idea recurs over and over again. Prairie Home Companion, I think, is also just about like found communities of strange people who have a story to tell, which is, of course, the whole idea of his career and his work and is a nice movie. I think it is like.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

Yeah. It's not going in.

[A]

It's not going in.

[B]

So I think we have nine greens.

[A]

Let's take a look at our list. Okay. In right now. And it's not changing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Mash McCabe and Mrs. Miller. The long goodbye, California split, Nashville. Three women. The player, seven shortcuts. Gosford park, nine. Now here are our yellows.

[B]

You can do that with your hand with the pinky down. That's really good. I can't do that.

[A]

What do you mean you can't do this?

[B]

No, look at me. Look at my mangles. I would have a real problem. I wouldn't actually get caught in Inglourious basterds because I can't.

[A]

This is Trey Glae. Yeah. I am a little ambidextrous.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

As well. My father's entire family is left handed.

[B]

So you and Knox should talk about this because it's really.

[A]

Is he showing left?

[B]

It's day to day. I mean, he is like definitely showing left, but then sometimes he's like, no, I want to bat right. So.

[A]

Well, that's something that happens. I think Craig Horlbeck is. Throws left, bats right or golf's right.

[B]

He definitely eats left. Sy sucks his left thumb, which I've never seen before. So that guy is. Is fully left handed. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not going to make the joke.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I was going to make a CR Joke, but I'm not going to do it. Okay. So yellows. Brewster McLeod Images. Popeye Secret Honor, fool for Love.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And also the company. The company is not coming.

[B]

No. That's nice.

[A]

You can take that right out.

[B]

So I like ballet, but no, my.

[A]

My pick would be Secret Honor.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think some people would say that Brewster McLeod or images are better or at least more representative of what he does.

[B]

But we have a lot of movies that are representative of what he does. Well, let me.

[A]

Let me Float this to you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Is there a world where we should consider putting 10 or 88 in even though it's a TV show?

[B]

No, we have never allowed TV shows.

[A]

Is that true? I can't remember 10. Here's the thing. Jack is just shrugging, shrug, wincing at us. I believe one time we tried. And then I forget which party was like, no, we're not putting television in. Which I stand with.

[B]

I think it was you.

[A]

Let me talk about Tanner, idiot. Really quickly. He does have. Altman does have a career in television. Some of these movies are made for television. He made a series in 1988 co created with Gary Trudeau, the creator of Doonesbury. That is an amazing eight part series about a prospective presidential candidate named Jack Tanner, played by Michael Murphy. They just throw this guy and a handful of actors, including Cynthia Nixon, a very young Cynthia Nixon who plays his daughter into the world of the presidential race in Washington D.C. in 88, which is of course the George H.W. bush election. And they kind of invent a type of TV show that we now see all the time. That the Larry Sanders show is like this, that the studio is like this of using the real and the fake and trying to blend them together and shake them up together and see what happens. Michael Murphy plays Jack Tanner. He's amazing on this show. It is definitely one of the best things Robert Altman ever made. It's very watchable to this day. It is a part of this collection on the Criterion channel. He also made a follow up movie 12 years later called Tanner on Tanner which is just a movie, I think, but is not as good. It's not as revelatory as the first one. So if you disallow it, I understand. But I want to cite it because it's very cool.

[B]

It's not me. We have rules. We have been working together and I'm pretty sure that we've never allowed tv and I'm sure that someone, you know, our like at home, Oms Budman Budsman will correct us if we ever have.

[A]

I remember what it was we were doing Nicole Kidman. And I believe the point of contention was Big Little Lies, the television show.

[B]

Right. And did we do it?

[A]

I don't think we did.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Okay. I do also want to note that he did a pilot, I think for Showtime in 1998 called Killer App, which you can watch on YouTube, which is about the Internet and is not totally successful, but shows how ahead of the curve he is.

[B]

That's fine. We have a task here and it's to talk about film and cinema. So you want to do Secret.

[A]

He also made another show called Gun in 1993. It was an anthology show that I think he made. Was it for ABC? I think it was for ABC. It was for ABC. It aired from April 12 through May 31. Number of different directors worked on this show. That's cool. He directed one episode. Daryl Hanna, Sally Kellerman. After the death of a golf club president, womanizer Bill Johnson is elected the new leader. But though he's now in charge at the club, he's losing his grip on the many women he's seeing. Interesting stuff. I lied. Big little lies did go in.

[B]

What did go in? Oh, okay.

[A]

We did it.

[B]

Okay. Okay, great.

[A]

See, I think Secret Honor should go in. I bent the knee. I bent the knee.

[B]

That's it. I think it was called compromise. If. I mean, if. Okay, that's fine. So we have a precedent.

[A]

I'll put Secret Honor. And it's fine because I stand for movies, as you know, I don't. None of this TV show.

[B]

You don't want to do Popeye instead of Secret Honor?

[A]

No, I like Popeye just fine.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think it's really more of a nostalgia play as opposed to an achievement.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think people should listen to that soundtrack. That's a really darn good title.

[B]

Except Secret Honor. I'm fine with that.

[A]

Okay. Secret Honor. That's it.

[B]

Were it me, it would be images, but I think that Secret Honor is the correct representative choice.

[A]

Okay. Does that. Is that our only. That's our only 80s title, so I feel like that's. That's the right move. Okay, so just a recap.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Robert Altman, Mash McCabe and Mrs. Miller. The long goodbye, California split, Nashville. Three women, secret honor, the player shortcuts, Gosford Park. That's ten.

[B]

No surprises here. Should we do the blue thing? Remember, was it blue for Paul Newman, where one pick that's not going in, but we recommend it to people?

[A]

Yes, Great idea.

[B]

Mine is images.

[A]

Okay. Mine would be Buffalo Bill and the Indians.

[B]

Okay. There we go.

[A]

Speaking of Paul Newman, both very. Both good picks, I think. Yeah, this is right. Nine of these ten are also available on the Criterion Channel right now. So you can go and watch them if you haven't seen them. Who is someone you would want to do this treatment for in the future where we have to spend nine months prepping?

[B]

I mean, you know, it requires like a. Who works at this volume?

[A]

Very few people that we don't cover.

[B]

Do we also have to do it for Someone's hundredth birthday?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That just happens to be. I just. That's an easy thing to look for, you know, we did it for Mifune during COVID Chris and I. We did Lumet. It's been helpful.

[B]

I don't know, has Katharine Hepburn turned 100 yet?

[A]

I would imagine she's older than 100 at this point.

[B]

Or would be. But then we could make her Brownies.

[A]

She'll be 125. Oh, no, she'll be 120 in 2027. She was born in 1907.

[B]

Thanks for trying, but that doesn't.

[A]

She died at 96 years old. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Have you ever. Have you ever had her brownies? It's like a famous brownie recipe. They're quite good.

[A]

Is it like a batch that she made before she died? Like a big batch?

[B]

Yeah, no, you could. I'll just. I'll send you the link. It's good. It's on here.

[A]

Her recipe for brownies. I mean, they're brownies. Like, how different could the recipe be?

[B]

There are actually many. A lot of variation with this.

[A]

Is there, like a signature ingredient?

[B]

There are walnuts in it. In them.

[A]

You don't like walnuts in brownies? Like, I don't what I. I. With a brownie, I just. The smooth delivery of chocolate is what I'm interested in.

[B]

You want fudgy. You don't want cakey.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

Same.

[A]

Correct. Fudgy, for sure.

[B]

These were on the fudgier side, but with walnuts. I do like walnuts. And I. But I also like a. I like a ganache on the top.

[A]

A ganache on the top?

[B]

Yeah. Like, the thick. The thick icing, the chocolate icing.

[A]

You're just. You're really weird.

[B]

You don't like icing.

[A]

A brownie is just like. It's just like something you just throw in a pan and you throw it in the oven.

[B]

Well, that's what this recipe is like.

[A]

Just take it out and then you just give it to your younger siblings, and then they just have something to eat. When your mom is working, you know, like, that's what you do. That's how I made brownies.

[B]

I mean, this is basically what it is. It's just cocoa butter, eggs, sugar, flour. Oh, my God. Come on. New York Times cooking. I am fucking logged in. Let me, like, Jesus Christ. I pay you. Okay.

[A]

So you haven't figured it. You wanted to do Hepburn. We could just do a Hepburn episode.

[B]

I mean, when I was thinking of someone, like, with an expansive body of work over many decades, who means a lot to me.

[A]

What I usually do when I'm trying to solve against that is I just look for an anniversary of a film.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So we could say, well, that's not great. There's no movie in 1950. Okay, so you'd really want to have one of those?

[B]

I mean, do we have to do it this year?

[A]

No, I meant for next year.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

We're kind of scheduled out right now. Did you notice we kind of have something every single fucking week?

[B]

Trust me, I'm pretty. Listen, I know, but. So then that would be 51, right? It's one year.

[A]

50Th observed.

[B]

No, no, the year. So you were looking at movies of 1950.

[A]

Yeah. 51 is the African Queen. 1940 is the Philadelphia Story. Bringing Up Baby is 38.

[B]

I know. That's a long time to wait.

[A]

Yeah, we don't have any matching Patton. Mike's 52.

[B]

Well, okay, so that would be 20.

[A]

If we did it this year.

[B]

Lyon. And winter is 68, so no matches.

[A]

So we got no anniversaries, 38, no birthday, anniversary, no nothing. All right, well, fuck off and die, Katherine Hepburn. Sorry. Any closing thoughts?

[B]

I'm Pro Altman. Good job.

[A]

Yeah. Pro Altman, thanks for coming on this journey.

[B]

Good job on the Criterion Collection.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

You looked great.

[A]

Thanks. They put makeup on my face.

[B]

I was gonna ask.

[A]

Yeah. They put makeup on my face. How did it look? Look good. Looked amazing. Knocked 18 months off my years. The Criterion Collection people have been wonderful, and I know I gave a promo code earlier, and this is a collaboration, but what they do, in addition to the Altman programming right now, the programming on the channel right now, which includes two Paul Thomas Anderson movies, 70s conspiracy thrillers, a number of other great packages, they're the absolute best what they do. So want to give a shout out to Alisa there, to Kim, to Curtis, who helped me look good during the production of that project. They are all awesome, and the whole team there is really great. Thank you for watching all these movies coming on the Journey with me.

[B]

You're very welcome.

[A]

This is really one of my guys. Although I don't know that I need to see a Robert Altman movie again for quite some time.

[B]

If you are just starting your Robert Altman journey.

[A]

Space them out.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know if the binge recommendation, it lends itself the best. You know, let them. Let them breathe. See other stuff, maybe intersperse it with, you know, pta, bomback other people.

[A]

Inspiration points. Exactly.

[B]

And so you can, like, see how they.

[A]

That's a good project in the future is if you like kicking and screaming, you will like OCN Stigs. You know what I mean? Like there's a way to kind of match those, those things in the future too.

[B]

Kicking and screaming.

[A]

I do too.

[B]

Yeah. Was that like number three on our list or number two on what list? We ranked the Bombach movies, I think.

[A]

On the marriage series ago.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Is it? Oh my God. That's insane. That. That was six years ago.

[A]

Yeah, more than six years ago. Okay. Well, I also want to thank researcher Brantley Palmer who is kind enough to provide like an incredible wealth of documents to us who went back and looked at every movie, read all the books. I'm also going to do a video about the physical media and some of the books that are out there about Altman. So you should check that out on your movies channel.

[B]

I brought your DVD back.

[A]

Thank you very much.

[B]

It is a DVD and not it is a dvd.

[A]

A lot of these movies are only available on dvd, unfortunately. And thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode. And later this week, just to tie everything neatly in a bow, we'll be doing a Paul Thomas Anderson movie character draft. Now just let's get this out of the way. No. 1 battle after another character is eligible because of cr.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And.

[B]

And everyone else because we can't split it.

[A]

But there are some good ass characters in that movie.

[B]

Yeah, sure. And it's fresh on our mind. I mean listen, it's. What a time we'll have.

[A]

What a time we'll have. Thanks everybody for indulging this episode and we'll see you later. This this episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures. One Battle After Another is coming to theaters September 26th. Don't miss legendary writer, director and producer my guy, Paul Thomas Anderson teaming up with Leo DiCaprio for the first time ever. Pretty exciting. They almost. They almost teamed together in Boogie Nights actually alongside award winning actors like Sean Penn, Teyana Taylor and Benicio Del Toro in this hilarious action packed adventure following Bob Ferguson, an ex revolutionary, on a mission to find his missing daughter and overcome the consequences of his past. One battle after another. Only in theaters September 26th. Get tickets now. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without parent.

[B]

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