Episode Summary: The Superman Movie Rankings

Release Date: July 14, 2025
Podcast: The Big Picture by The Ringer
Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins
Guests: Rob Mahoney and Van Lathan

Introduction to the Discussion

The episode kicks off with a brief advertisement for Starbucks' new Strato Frappuccino blended beverage, setting a casual and engaging tone. Shortly after, Sean Fennessey introduces the main topic of the day: ranking Superman movies. He highlights the extensive discussions he and Van Lathan have had on the subject, indicating the depth of analysis listeners can expect.

Initial Impressions of James Gunn's Superman

Sean welcomes Rob Mahoney, the only remaining Ringer podcaster who hasn't yet weighed in on the latest Superman film directed by James Gunn.

Rob Mahoney (01:30):
"I just think it's really affirming when you see characters that are really important to you represented well on screen. And it's been a while, but they finally got Big Head Green Baby just right. They fucking nailed it. They aced it."

Rob expresses his enthusiasm for how Gunn has portrayed significant characters, specifically praising the representation of Big Head Green Baby, indicating a successful adaptation of beloved characters.

Superman's Cultural Evolution

Van Lathan delves into the historical significance of Superman in popular culture, tracing his prominence from the 1950s "Superman" TV show to the ebb and flow of his popularity alongside other superheroes like Batman.

Van Lathan (02:26):
"It was a part of people's willingness or their want for Superman to not culturally expire. Because when the Reeve movies are coming along and when we're growing up in the 80s, Superman is still a very strong cultural force..."

He discusses how different eras have shaped the perception of Superman, noting the resurgence of interest with shows like "Smallville" and how James Gunn's portrayal aligns with contemporary societal values.

Box Office Performance and Reception

Sean transitions the conversation to the financial success of James Gunn's Superman movie, which grossed $217 million worldwide, performing well domestically with $122 million but falling short of expectations internationally.

Sean Fennessey (14:35):
"And I think this is a good outcome for the movie. Now overseas, there's two ways to look at it..."

They attribute the moderate international performance to the movie's overt political themes and the complex portrayal of American ideals, which may not resonate equally across global markets.

Rob Mahoney (15:05):
"I think Superman is more American than Captain America is. It is truth, justice in the American way. It's baked into the character..."

Rob emphasizes the inherent Americanism in Superman's character, suggesting that the film's engagement with real-world issues could polarize audiences.

Comparisons to Previous Superman Films

The hosts and guests engage in an extensive comparison of various Superman movies, particularly focusing on the Christopher Reeve era and its lasting impact.

Sean Fennessey (35:06):
"The first tier is very clearly Jaws, Star Wars. There's a handful of movies that are so totemic, that are so impactful in my life that Superman doesn't get over those..."

They position the original 1978 "Superman" film starring Christopher Reeve just below cinematic giants like "Jaws" and "Star Wars," highlighting its foundational role in superhero filmmaking.

Rob Mahoney (36:37):
"If you want to make a Superman movie that is overtly about immigration and Gaza, this is what happens..."

Rob critiques certain portrayals of Lex Luthor and Superman's emotional depth in various adaptations, noting improvements in character representation over time.

Ranking the Superman Movies

The core of the episode revolves around ranking the Superman films. The panel meticulously evaluates each movie based on factors like character portrayal, storytelling, and faithful adaptation of comic book lore.

Final Rankings:

1. Superman (1978)
2. Superman II
3. Superman III
4. Superman Returns
5. Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
6. Zack Snyder's Justice League
7. Man of Steel
8. Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice
9. Superman III (Reiterated due to its nuanced discussion)
10. Superman Returns
11. Justice League (Original Joss Whedon Cut)

Key Points:

• Superman (1978): Celebrated for its groundbreaking depiction and foundational storytelling.
• Superman II: Praised for its deeper character development and emotional resonance.
• Superman III: Acknowledged for its comedic elements and Richard Pryor's performance, despite its deviations from the original.
• Superman Returns: Critiqued for feeling disjointed but recognized for some redeeming qualities.
• Man of Steel: Viewed negatively for misconstruing Superman's core values.
• Batman vs. Superman: Mixed reviews, with some appreciation for Ben Affleck's Batman but criticism of overarching plot choices.

Upcoming DC Universe Projects

The discussion extends to future DC Universe projects like "Supergirl" and "Clayface," speculating on their potential impact and how they might fit into the broader DC cinematic landscape.

Van Lathan (24:14):
"I was really actually excited for the Authority movie, which it doesn't seem like is going to happen now..."

They express hope that upcoming films will explore diverse characters and storytelling methods, moving away from relying solely on blockbuster spectacles.

Conclusion: Reflections on Superman's Legacy

Wrapping up, the hosts reflect on Superman's enduring legacy and the challenges of evolving his character in a modern context.

Sean Fennessey (87:50):
"I really like what he was trying to do, which is like, this is more like the Ridley Scott movie legend than it is a Justice League movie."

They commend James Gunn for attempting to create a believable world around Superman, emphasizing the balance between maintaining the character's integrity and adapting to contemporary narratives.

Notable Quotes

• Rob Mahoney (01:30):
  "They finally got Big Head Green Baby just right. They fucking nailed it. They aced it."

• Van Lathan (02:26):
  "Superman can hang out. We can do World's Finest. We can do, I guess, Batman v Dawn of justice."

• Rob Mahoney (15:05):
  "Superman is more American than Captain America is. It is truth, justice in the American way."

• Rob Mahoney (36:37):
  "If you want to make a Superman movie that is overtly about immigration and Gaza, this is what happens."

Final Thoughts

The episode presents a thorough and passionate examination of Superman's cinematic journey, blending nostalgia with critical analysis. Sean Fennessey, Rob Mahoney, and Van Lathan offer diverse perspectives, making the discussion both insightful and relatable for fans and newcomers alike.

Listeners interested in superhero film rankings, character development, and the future of the DC Universe will find this episode both informative and engaging.

For a detailed breakdown of the rankings and further discussions, visit The Big Picture's Letterboxd account.