The Top 10 Garbage Scorsese Movies and ‘The Alto Knights’

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Big Picture – "The Top 10 Garbage Scorsese Movies and ‘The Alto Knights’"

Release Date: March 24, 2025 | Host/Author: The Ringer

---

Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of The Big Picture, Sean Fennessy and Amanda Dobbins, along with guest Chris Ryan, delve into the realm of Martin Scorsese-inspired cinema. The discussion centers around their curated list of the Top 10 Garbage Scorsese Movies, paying homage to yet critiquing films that echo Scorsese's style without matching his storytelling prowess. Additionally, they explore Barry Levinson's latest endeavor, "The Alto Knights", featuring Robert De Niro in a dual role.

---

Exploring "The Alto Knights"

Sean Fennessy opens the conversation by introducing "The Alto Knights," highlighting that despite being directed by Barry Levinson—a seasoned Hollywood director known more for dramedies than crime epics—the film owes a significant debt to Martin Scorsese's iconic works.

Sean Fennessy [01:18]: "The Alto Knights... a loving tribute to the films that are deeply indebted to, but not really on the level of Marty."

Chris Ryan humorously deflects excitement about the project:

Chris Ryan [01:52]: "I plead the fifth. I'm incriminate myself."

The trio discusses the film's plot and production background, noting that Nicholas Pileggi, famed for "Goodfellas," penned the screenplay. However, they express skepticism about the film's execution, particularly De Niro's dual portrayal of 1950s mob bosses Vito Genovese and Frank Costello.

---

Critical Analysis of "The Alto Knights"

Amanda Dobbins shares her candid impressions, criticizing the film's pacing and character development:

Amanda Dobbins [21:14]: "I was so bored. I was unbelievably bored by this film... why won't they stop talking?"

Chris Ryan echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the film's scattered narrative:

Chris Ryan [22:03]: "Each subplot feels like a separate story stitched together... It tried to tell 50 different stories."

They critique the overuse of expository techniques, such as direct-to-camera narration and archival footage, which detract from the film's immersive storytelling.

Sean Fennessy [23:04]: "This script... fails to deliver on its experimentation."

Despite these criticisms, Ryan lauds the technical aspects, including Dante Spinatti's cinematography and De Niro's transformative makeup, which accurately reflects the historical figures.

Chris Ryan [26:24]: "The makeup job is really good. He looks pretty much like the photos of these two guys."

---

Defining Garbage Scorsese Movies

Transitioning from "The Alto Knights," the hosts delve into their main theme: "Garbage Scorsese Movies." These are films that adopt Scorsese's stylistic elements—such as fast-paced editing, dynamic camera movements, and thematic focus on crime—but fall short in substance and execution.

Sean Fennessy explains the concept:

Sean Fennessy [76:38]: "It's an adoption of style, but not theme and motivation. Great Scorsese films balance style with deep thematic exploration."

Amanda Dobbins adds that while homage is acceptable, these films often lack the emotional and narrative depth that characterize Scorsese's masterpieces.

Amanda Dobbins [76:15]: "It's an homage. Done with love, but we all want to feel what we felt when we first saw Goodfellas."

---

Top 10 Garbage Scorsese Movies

The hosts present their Top 10 Garbage Scorsese Movies, highlighting films that, despite their Scorsese-inspired aesthetics, fail to capture the essence of his storytelling. Below are their selections, each accompanied by their critiques:

1. "American Hustle"

   • Critique: Overly stylized with excessive voiceovers and fragmented storytelling.
   • Quote: Sean Fennessy [67:26]: "Lots of voiceover that feels like it's stitching together fractured parts of a script."

2. "American Gangster"

   • Critique: While thematically aligned with Scorsese's work, it lacks the nuanced character development.
   • Quote: Amanda Dobbins [56:00]: "It hits all the beats but doesn't quite capture the depth of Scorsese's narratives."

3. "Hustlers"

   • Critique: Combines criminal underworld elements with a touch of righteousness but falls flat in execution.
   • Quote: Amanda Dobbins [56:02]: "It's an underworld story with some righteousness, but the framing device doesn't fully work."

4. "Bike Riders"

   • Critique: Attempts to merge Scorsese's crime elements with a biker subculture, resulting in a mismatched narrative.
   • Quote: Chris Ryan [55:06]: "Goodfellas on bikes... enjoyable but not on par with the originals."

5. "Blow"

   • Critique: Focuses on drug trafficking with a stylized approach but lacks the emotional depth.
   • Quote: Chris Ryan [67:10]: "Same energy as Scorsese's work but doesn't deliver the same impact."

6. "Donnie Brasco"

   • Critique: Although starring De Niro, it doesn't resonate with the complexity seen in Scorsese's films.
   • Quote: Chris Ryan [64:58]: "Donnie Brasco aligns with the Scorsese vibe but fails to stand out."

7. "Amongst Friends"

   • Critique: An indie attempt at capturing Scorsese's essence but ends up feeling like a footnote in the genre.
   • Quote: Sean Fennessy [70:16]: "A footnote movie in a story of a studio."

8. "Smoking Aces"

   • Critique: Features high-octane action and star-studded cast but lacks coherent storytelling.
   • Quote: Sean Fennessy [75:10]: "Feels like a ripped-off version of Scorsese's high-energy scenes."

9. "War Dogs"

   • Critique: Emulates Scorsese's criminal undertones but oversimplifies character motivations.
   • Quote: Sean Fennessy [77:37]: "Cashing in political capital with no depth."

10. "Observe and Report"

    • Critique: Merges Scorsese-inspired crime elements with dark comedy, resulting in an uncomfortable viewing experience.
    • Quote: Chris Ryan [62:18]: "Combines Scorsese's gestures with needle drops and feels unfocused."

---

Influence of Scorsese on Contemporary Filmmakers

The discussion broadens to analyze how Martin Scorsese's legacy has permeated modern cinema. The hosts note that while many filmmakers draw inspiration from his techniques, few can replicate the thematic richness and character complexity that define his work.

Sean Fennessy [78:17]: "Great filmmakers like Scorsese have specific themes of fate, consequence, and inner turmoil that these garbage movies lack."

Chris Ryan points out that even avant-garde directors like Paul Thomas Anderson and Quentin Tarantino, who are influenced by Scorsese, manage to infuse their unique styles and thematic depth, distinguishing their work from the "garbage" imitators.

Chris Ryan [51:57]: "He's experimenting with his style, taking what we associate with Scorsese and tweaking it to create something avant-garde."

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the challenges of maintaining creative originality in an industry saturated with imitation. They acknowledge the fine line between homage and unoriginality, emphasizing that true artistry lies in evolving beyond one's influences.

Amanda Dobbins [76:44]: "It's both an homage and a lack of creativity. Not everyone can be Martin Scorsese."

Sean Fennessy contemplates the future of Scorsese's influence, questioning whether the trend of stylistic imitation will stifle genuine storytelling innovation.

Sean Fennessy [79:50]: "That's why it's garbage. They adopt the style but not the underlying themes that make Scorsese's work impactful."

The episode concludes with a light-hearted exchange among the hosts, underscoring their camaraderie and shared passion for film critique.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sean Fennessy [23:04]: "This script and maybe even the performance doesn't really pay out on that experiment."
• Amanda Dobbins [21:14]: "I was so bored. I was unbelievably bored by this film."
• Chris Ryan [22:03]: "It tried to tell 50 different stories and also tell it in such a way that I think almost bordered on Netflix true crime doc rather than like a narrative film."
• Sean Fennessy [76:38]: "It's an adoption of style, but not theme and motivation. Great Scorsese films balance style with deep thematic exploration."
• Amanda Dobbins [77:07]: "It's an homage. Done with love, but we all want to feel what we felt when we first saw Goodfellas."
• Sean Fennessy [79:44]: "It's an adoption of style, but not theme and motivation. Great Scorsese films balance style with deep thematic exploration."

---

Key Takeaways

• "Garbage Scorsese Movies" refer to films that mimic Scorsese's stylistic elements but lack his narrative depth and thematic complexity.
• "The Alto Knights" serves as a case study for such imitators, showcasing how mere stylistic replication without substance leads to a lackluster film experience.
• Martin Scorsese's influence remains profound, yet the hosts caution against the pitfalls of over-reliance on his stylistic trademarks without creative innovation.
• The evolution of Scorsese's own work exemplifies the balance between homage and originality, setting a benchmark for filmmakers striving to be influenced yet distinct.

This episode offers a nuanced critique of contemporary cinema's dance with Scorsese's legacy, providing listeners with insightful perspectives on what separates homage from imitation in film artistry.

Transcript

[Sean Fennessy]

This episode is presented by Audi. The all new fully electric Audi Q6E. Tron is a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever experience. Technology that puts you center stage with a panoramic digital stage plus an optional screen for front seat passengers so they can kick back with a movie. Q6E. Tron is not just a new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn [e-mail] always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. This episode is presented by Audi. The all new fully electric Audi Q6E. Tron is a huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, and the most advanced tech of any Audi ever experience. Technology that puts you center stage with a panoramic digital stage plus an optional screen for front seat passengers so they can kick back with a movie. The Q6E Tron is not just a new evidence, it's a new way to experience driving. Learn more@audi USA.com always pay careful attention to the road and do not drive while distracted. I'm Sean Fennessy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm Amanda Dobbins.

[Sean Fennessy]

And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about Garbage Scorsese trash Marty Italiano Strazate. On today's show, Chris Ryan joins us to discuss the new movie the Alto Knights, which is directed not by Martin Scorsese, but by Barry Levinson. And it stars Robert De Niro. It certainly owes a debt to Martin Scorsese, who is a patron saint of this podcast. And with that in mind, we'll be breaking down our top ten garbage Scorsese movies. A loving tribute to the films that are deeply indebted to, but not really on the level of Marty. I would say.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Chris, are you excited about this endeavor?

[Chris Ryan]

I plead the fifth. I'm incriminate myself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would tend to incriminate myself.

[Sean Fennessy]

Programming reminder. On Wednesday, the next installment of 25 for 25 continues. It is not the Alto nights. I assure you. It'll be number 24.

[Chris Ryan]

Question about the schedule. Did you not do your 25th film last week?

[Sean Fennessy]

We did do it last week and.

[Chris Ryan]

Now the 24th film is this week.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, and then we'll take a little break.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, okay. So weekly just means two times a month?

[Sean Fennessy]

Some two to three times a month.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, we're gonna sprinkle them out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, there's 52 weeks, 25 films starting in March.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So I think we're down to like 30.

[Chris Ryan]

So you guys are gonna go into 26 with this?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, we'll be Done in December.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

In fact, maybe the last podcast you.

[Chris Ryan]

Hear in December will be the number one film.

[Sean Fennessy]

Actually, I don't think that's true.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that's a pretty noisy release time.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Mid December selection committee would be afterwards because we can't spoil.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe that's a New Year's Day release.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, Maybe it should be New Year's Eve in honor of your list, you know?

[Sean Fennessy]

How wonderful. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The Sean fantasy tradition. That's nice.

[Chris Ryan]

I like that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, let's do that. Okay. Let's talk about some news.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot has happened. We double recorded and had a banged episode. The Tracy Letts draft. People love Tracy. They were like, bring him back all the time. I'm like, this is an acclaimed playwright living in New York with his wife, Carrie Coon. He can't come on the pot every week, guys. I'm very sorry. I wish he could, but he can't. Um, trailers and schedule news. Something happened last week that is very important to this show, which is that Warner Brothers shifted some of the chess pieces on their board. One battle after another. The new Paul Thomas Anderson movie, it was announced, was moved, as we suspected, from August 8th only until September 26th.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessy]

It stays on the 2025 calendar. And then one day later, we saw a teaser for the film.

[Chris Ryan]

A teaser for the teaser.

[Sean Fennessy]

A teaser for the trailer.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I watched it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

This movie features Leonardo DiCaprio. Guns, a baby.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know. I got a little nervous about that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Teyana Taylor.

[Chris Ryan]

Sean Penn.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sean Penn's voice.

[Chris Ryan]

Sean Penn.

[Sean Fennessy]

Briefly seen the young actress from Presumed Innocent.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

What's her name? Chase Infinity.

[Chris Ryan]

Is that her name?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think so. Can you look that up for me?

[Amanda Dobbins]

One battle after another. Doing it. Doing it. Hold on. This is podcasting Chase Infinity. That's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Great job.

[Amanda Dobbins]

With an I.

[Chris Ryan]

With an I finished Presumedism.

[Sean Fennessy]

I did finish it. I did not like the last episode. I thought the series through four episodes rocked.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And hard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It took a really long time.

[Sean Fennessy]

It took a turn.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think I might get into Scott Tureaud, like, the novels this summer, though.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That might be my reading project.

[Sean Fennessy]

He didn't write One battle after another. Just so you know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Maybe I'm going to do Vineland and then all the novels of Scott Turrell.

[Sean Fennessy]

That would probably be a nice palate cleanser.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sean Fennessy]

One battle after another. Will you watch the trailer? Because you are a little trailer phobic.

[Chris Ryan]

We just talked about this because there is another and or trailer came out and we were like, should we even bother? Like, we're sold. We have our money, let's go. And I don't want to get. But that was like a much more impressionistic, like, here are the themes, but not necessarily giving away any plot points. I think PTA is one of our greatest trailer cutters. And so I will be indulging in this. I have watched this teaser 42 times.

[Sean Fennessy]

I had a text exchange with friends about this as well. Sort of like, okay, what's your count up to on watching this? Which is a little sad, but also and a testimony to where movies are in 2025.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I definitely watch it multiple times, like in a room with my two children, you know, And I was like, hold on, boys. Mom's got to watch these machine guns again.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's quite, quite a shot. Pregnant Teyana Taylor firing a semi automatic rifle. You know, I'm really excited. I'm sure when the trailer comes out, we'll do something more specific.

[Chris Ryan]

Will you guys do a Vineland Book club episode or anything?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it just needs to be a big part of the conversation of the movie. Right. Because we don't know. It seems like a very loose adaptation that seems to be a modernization and taking a lot of the themes about power and control and government conspiracy into the 21st century.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also, as discussed. Sean's having a hard time reading.

[Sean Fennessy]

I am having a hard time reading. Well, I. That book.

[Chris Ryan]

You're post literate.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, no, I mean, I read every day.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I read journalism, I read websites, discourse. So yeah, I'm struggling to read fiction. But I will complete Vineland and I'm not worried about that. And I will watch one battle after another trailer multiple times and the film multiple times as well.

[Amanda Dobbins]

September 26th would suggest that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Would suggest that it will go to a fall festival. In fact, I think the deadline report about this schedule shuffle indicated that now PTA movies. I think I was sharing some of these data points with you. He has his movies have played festivals. I don't know that he loves festivals in general.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

So there is a part of me that is wondering if he would hold it back entirely the way that Phantom thread was held back entirely. And licorice Pizza was held back entirely from those experiences. But like the master, I believe, played Venice. I think There Will Be Blood was at Telluride. I think Inherent Vice was at wasn't a can. I can't recall where it was. Maybe New York Film Festival. So you're planning on Venice this year? Yeah, I'm going to Telluride this year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You sure you don't want to come for a couple days? I got to book the Airbnb soon if we want two bedrooms, so I can't go.

[Sean Fennessy]

Unfortunately. I've made my plans. I've booked my rooms.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm excited to see Leo on the Lido.

[Sean Fennessy]

You may. I do wonder if after the disastrous premiere of Joker Folie a Deux at Venice last year, that Warner Brothers might be a little reluctant to put $180 million Leonardo DiCaprio movie.

[Chris Ryan]

This might come up later.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah, it will. It will. Some more Warner Brothers conversation. In addition, Weapons, the forthcoming movie from Zack Kreger, which has been described as a horror movie version of Magnolia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

A multi character arc horror story from Cragger has been moved up to August 8th into that one battle after another spot. Craigger directed Barbarian, which Chris and I told you about quite vigorously a couple of years ago on the podcast while you had a concussion. Interesting episode of the show. Maggie Gyllenhaal stayed with me. Maggie Gyllenhaal's the Bride, which is a musical adaptation of Frankenstein's monster bride story, has been moved to 2026. Testing hasn't been good.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All right, that's fine.

[Chris Ryan]

Other Kreger news Just as a little footnote, his Resident Evil project seems to have cast Austin Abrams as its star. So for all the homies who had Wolf's stock in Austin Abrams or Paper Towns stock in Austin Abrams, it's hitting.

[Sean Fennessy]

Austin Abrams, also one of the stars of Weapons. So maybe that's where Craig got the idea from. Other trailer News Materialists, Celine Song's new film starring Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal comes to us June 13th. Very soon on the show, an adult romantic comedy. What did you think about that trailer?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm very excited for romantic comedies and you're going to have to apologize to Chris Evans and that seems nice.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, we'll see. Yeah, you know, we'll see. I'll be watching with interest. Okay. Romantic comedies. Have you seen one?

[Chris Ryan]

I have seen a few, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, usually they're.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What's your favorite?

[Chris Ryan]

John Woo's Hard Boiled.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Great. I love to be among my people.

[Chris Ryan]

Come on. I love broadcast news. I love romantic comedies. Broadcast Philadelphia Story is one of my favorite films ever made.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, fair enough. That's good.

[Sean Fennessy]

Broadcast news. Apparently the signal inspiration for Materialists, which is a movie about a matchmaker who falls in love with two men.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think it'll be like the Matchmaker's Role in Society and a World of Raya and Hinge will Be addressed in this film?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I would assume so, but there are. They're, like, thriving, just so you know.

[Chris Ryan]

Good for them.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, matchmakers are thriving.

[Chris Ryan]

As a guy whose match has been made, I was just asking a question.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, congratulations.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you ever consider something like that?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I never needed it. I just had a magnetism, you know?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, absolutely. Many people are saying. Many men are saying F1.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

We got an extended look at the new Brad Pitt F1 racing movie. The first film from your boy from Top Gun Maverick. Joseph Kosinski's in Spiderhead.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which I did watch because you guys made a whole big deal out of it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Spiderhead, I enjoyed. Yeah. F1. Here's what I clocked in. F1. Obviously, a lot of cars going very fast. Obviously a lot of. Is he over the hill? I'm too old for this shit from Brad Pitt. And then a lot of pushing people in hallways.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think there were three scenes where someone was pushed in a hallway.

[Chris Ryan]

Could all be happening in the same scene. We don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, at one point, it was Brad Pitt and Kerry Condon slamming each other against a wall.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's the Top Gun making out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. My intent is up about this one. A little concerned by the rote framework of this story. Might not matter ultimately, if the action is great. Kaczynski visually does not miss. But just hold my breath a little bit.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, the show me the movie zone with this one. Don't need to see another trailer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Agree. I did not watch this one because I was like, I don't want it to be. You know, if I'm gonna see them slam into a hallway multiple times, let it be in during the film or during the 45,000 times I rewatch it with my son.

[Sean Fennessy]

Seems healthy. Will you watch the sex scenes together?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, we won't.

[Sean Fennessy]

You got to think about that. This is coming up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, because it's like. It is true that as soon as we get to. We don't usually make it to the.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's the best part of Top Gun Maverick is you can watch it with any age because there's no intercourse.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But as soon as Tom laughing in a woman's face, he's like, I'm just turning this off.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's what he wants.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Knox is like, I'm not interested in this. So.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, we'll have to teach him about Jennifer Connelly one day, won't we?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, he likes that when he. The boat scene is very important. You know, you're in the Navy now.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you watch the trailer for Together.

[Chris Ryan]

What is that?

[Sean Fennessy]

Is the new Alison Brie, Dave Franco movie, which was the sensation at Sundance.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, no, it didn't. Because it's twisty. High concept. Right. And so I was just like, this seems like I'm in and I'll just watch it.

[Sean Fennessy]

It doesn't really give away anything that isn't in the logline, but it's a really.

[Chris Ryan]

Haven't even read the logline.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, I won't spoil anything about it for you. Other just to say it's a very well made trailer for a movie that has a lot of heat on it. Alison Brie, Dave Franco, married in real life, of course. And gosh, how to not spoil it for you guys. It's kind of at the start of you taking some time off from the show, I think. So this might be a CR And Shawn affair. Just putting that out there for me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's also on my birthday.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, Happy birthday.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's your birthday movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, you should read about what it's about. Could be an interesting movie for you and Zach to spend some time with. I was hoping that we would have a Phoenician scheme trailer by the time we recorded this episode, because Chris and I are headed to Boston. But alas, no. Reportedly, Wes Anderson's new movie, which is out there.

[Chris Ryan]

We can go live on Instagram from the streets of Boston.

[Sean Fennessy]

Have you considered doing that about content?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't. I haven't found a piece of content that I that would rise to the level of it's time to go live.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I give you a pro tip? Make sure that you have your passwords and logins nailed down before you want to go live, because that got in the way of me being able to go live.

[Chris Ryan]

Do they, like, make you re. Verify your.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but I was also good. I was going to do it from the big pick count.

[Chris Ryan]

And what were you going to do it about?

[Amanda Dobbins]

The red carpet? I don't know. I was just. You know, we had like 30 minutes between when we did this and when this show, the Oscars started, but then I couldn't log in.

[Chris Ryan]

There was a Odyssey night shoot outside of a fort that I was going to maybe jump on. Yeah, like. Like a fortification. There was like a battle outside of a fort in Greece. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you just use the full term for fort?

[Chris Ryan]

Fort.

[Sean Fennessy]

You relation for like, I. Fort Sumter.

[Chris Ryan]

No, like. Like, whatever.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What would you call, like, an ancient fort?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, what would you call that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like the remains of one palace, I guess.

[Chris Ryan]

Like a city. City palace.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't walls of the city Again. I don't know why I'm being asked questions about the Odyssey when it's all there for you. You are the expert.

[Chris Ryan]

I considered going live because I thought it would be cool if I was like in the lower part of the screen with the microphone being like. As you can see Christopher Nolan shooting the light up here.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

And you know, typically we don't refer to Greek cities as forts, but in a lot of ways it's a fortification.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, why don't we.

[Chris Ryan]

Why don't I do that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, why don't we refer to them as forts?

[Chris Ryan]

I don't know. I mean, because he blinked when I said it. Because it was like, oh, you mean Fort Ticonderoga? And it's like, no, I mean fucking. You know, Hester's out there, he's trying to get in. You know.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm still waiting for the Odyssey R to launch.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I feel like it shouldn't even be on ringer movies. It should be your own channel.

[Chris Ryan]

You're trying to divest me from the ringer?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, I just. I think there you have a greater chance of success. Individual.

[Chris Ryan]

The Phoenician scheme. Wes Anderson's spy film.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, I'm in. That's another one where it's like, that'd be great if they release a trailer, but I don't need a trailer.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't need a trailer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Show me the movie. You know, I think I've said this.

[Chris Ryan]

A couple of times in auctions and stuff, but Michael Cera is the most logical person to be in a Wes Anderson movie who's never been in a Wes Anderson movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a great point and I agree with you completely and I look forward to it. I think there's a. It's a star studded cast as well. I think Benicio's back a number of other. Is ScarJo back for this one as well?

[Chris Ryan]

I believe she is.

[Sean Fennessy]

So, yeah. Very much looking forward to that. I don't think I've seen even a still from the movie yet too, which is interesting. And it's coming out very, very, very soon. Two months last piece of news. Chris added this. We also texted vigorously about it over the weekend. What is this news?

[Chris Ryan]

I have the headline here. Leatherface but he fucks. Because J.T. molnar, director of Strange Darling and Glen Powell are apparently in the pole position. No F1 to launch a Texas Chainsaw Massacre reboot remake. Reimagining now. Glen Powell would apparently be appearing in the film and producing. So he would be hands on. And the question here is, is this Leatherface's origin story? Is he a hot young Texan and then he gets corrupted by leather and faces, or is he gonna switch it up and Glenn Powell is the final girl? J.T. molner, obviously, like, if you see segments from Strange Darling, they're not. I would say they lovingly pay homage to the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre in a great way. So he is a perfect director for this. If we are going to just recycle this stuff, I can't wait for this movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm very excited. I'm a little bit dubious about Texas Chainsaw as ip.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they've tried it because they tried to be like the larger Leatherface family. We've tried to go. Go back as a group of influencers to start the town again. Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I did a huge episode about it with Alex Ross Perry during COVID Works. There was a recently a Netflix movie about three years ago that was like that influencer version that you're describing. Not good at all. And most of the sequels are not good. I think the two Tobe Hooper movies are really good. Some people have some love for Leatherface, which is, I think 1990. I don't know if the story ports over. The first film is so singular.

[Chris Ryan]

Is there a Platinum Dunes version of it?

[Sean Fennessy]

There was, yeah. It's not very good. I think Alexandra Daddario is the star, I want to say. You seen any of these?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sometimes it's like, what are you guys talking about? You know, but then it's like, you can't remember great films. Like, you know, meaningful conversations that we had in European locations.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sounds like I'm redefining meaningful. You know what is meaningful? Is it Alexandra Daddario's work?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did you have a Texas Chainsaw? I like Strange Darling, despite myself. And which is a tribute to J.T. molnar. And, you know, I root for Glen Powell.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't mean to waste your time by belaboring this point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

But can I ask you as a star watcher, Glenn Powell, currently, honestly, among other things, best known for being in Top Gun Maverick.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

As well as the Sydney Sweeney movie and, you know, all the other stuff. Hitman Twister, Top Gun, Maverick, Twisters, the upcoming Running man reboot, Hitman, and now Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Those four, like, all reviving other properties rather than forging his own way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Any concern on your part, or is that just the way things go in 2025?

[Amanda Dobbins]

At least it's not superhero.

[Chris Ryan]

There you go.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, it's kind of like two pass. If you want to operate at his level or at the level that he wants to be.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And you can either remake stuff or you can put on a kit.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think he's doing the Playbook. The other movie that you didn't mention is John Patton Ford's Huntington, which is an A24 drama.

[Chris Ryan]

No, no. I'm not saying he's not making other good movies. I'm just saying he has got multiple reboot properties going.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Running man, which I think we're going to learn a lot about at Cinemacon next week, I have very high hopes for. Not just because it's an Edgar Wright movie, but it's the perfect kind of movie to be remade because the original is just not that great. And the story, the King story, is such a good story and a good idea for a movie. I've got some doubts about Texas Chainsaw. I really like J.C. molner as a director, but again, it's not my favorite. Twisters.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I enjoyed a lot of fun.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think he needed a movie like that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That was your problem. You were good on Twisters.

[Chris Ryan]

I enjoy Twisters.

[Sean Fennessy]

I just think he needed something really mainstream where he was the guy. He was the action hero lead. You did like it.

[Chris Ryan]

I thought it was fine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, yeah, he was. Yeah, he didn't like it.

[Chris Ryan]

I blew my. My heart blew away with Kieran Shipka in the beginning of that film, you know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Spoiler. But that was dramatic.

[Chris Ryan]

If you haven't seen Twisters. Sorry.

[Sean Fennessy]

How do I make a hard shift into the Alto Knights?

[Chris Ryan]

Talk about rebooting stuff. Hey.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, thank you for your service.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Alto Knights, as I said, is this new film from Barry Levinson, who's one of the most accomplished directors in Hollywood. And it's been some time since he's made a great movie. This movie did not break that streak. It's written by Nicholas Pileggi, who, of course is a famed New York journalist and screenwriter whose book, Wise Guy was the basis of Goodfellas. He's written many screenplays over the years, was married to Nora Ephron. He reportedly is close friends with David Zaslav, who runs Warner Brothers, which is one of the reasons why this movie exists.

[Chris Ryan]

I did not know that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are you being serious? No, I'm not being serious. The movie stars Robert De Niro in a dual role.

[Chris Ryan]

First time him doing that?

[Sean Fennessy]

I believe so, though. Don't quote me on that. He plays a pair of 1950s mob bosses, Vito Genovese and Frank Costello. This movie Also features Debra Messing, Amanda's favorite actress, Cosmo Jarvis. Catherine Cosmo. Well, I want to talk to you about Cosmo. Catherine Narducci, you may recall, as Artie Buco's wife from the Sopranos. And Michael Risboli, who you may recall did not get the role of Tony.

[Chris Ryan]

Soprano in the Sopranos, plays Albert Anastasia in this movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, this movie is about the power struggle between Vito and Frank, who were friends turned frenemies, top bosses of the Mafia. There becomes a huge conflict between them when Vito orders a hit on that, on Frank. And then this movie attempts to chart this kind of uneasy survival of the New York mafia from the 1950s through the 1970s, and these two powerhouse figures. Amanda, I'll start with you. What did you think of this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was so bored. I was unbelievably bored by this film. And not to be rude or ageist, but spent a lot of time being like, who are these old people on the screen and why won't they stop talking? I guess it should be something of interest to us and that the DNA that you just listed would appeal to us, but they did not pull it off in any way, shape or form.

[Sean Fennessy]

Chris, what'd you think?

[Chris Ryan]

As bored as I could possibly be with a subject matter that I'm incredibly interested in. So never, like, detached from Earth's atmosphere and floated away while I was watching this. But obviously a movie that decided to be all things rather than one thing to its. To its own, probably.

[Sean Fennessy]

What do you mean by that?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think every time it kind of started to touch on a subject that would have been interesting, whether it was Vito and Frank's lifelong relationship and their origins or the movement of the Mafia towards bringing heroin into the country and being like distributors of Heroin in the 50s to any number of other subplots that happen. You know, if you could have grabbed onto any one of those things, I think it would have been excellent. But instead it tried to tell 50 different stories and also tell it in such a way that I think almost bordered on Netflix true crime doc rather than like a narrative film. So there's a lot of direct to camera exposition dumps. A lot of use of, like, broadcast TV for expo, a lot of use of voiceover, which we'll get to as we talk about garbage. Scorsese. So just a lot of, like, tricks that I think were about. Let's do a Wikipedia history dump rather than tell us.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well. SWING MUSIC PLAYS yeah, I agree.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is not very good at all. It feels like it has the bones of A movie that would have mattered quite a bit 30 years ago, but we're so far past the desire.

[Chris Ryan]

It was originally written, wasn't it?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think so, yeah. And it is a movie that is absolutely has a huge relationship to Goodfellas and Casino and those Scorsese films and a number of other New York crime stories about the sort of rise and sustainability and ultimate downfall of the Mafia in the United States. Levinson is an odd choice for a movie like this. I don't know that he necessarily has a style. He rose to fame in the first as a writer and then as a filmmaker in the 80s with movies like Diner, personal favorite of yours, the Natural, Tin Men, Good Morning Vietnam, very talky dramedies, was kind of his stock in trade. Reaches the absolute pinnacle of Hollywood with Rain man, another talky dramedy, very character focused and then kind of goes on this like pretty extended middle to downfall period of like a lot of really mediocre movies with big stars over a long period of time. There's not a lot of history of like crime movies here on this list.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, okay, so we could say that this is as, as the image behind us suggests from the hit makers of Goodfellas, the Irishman and Bugsy. So Bugsy would be the most obvious like brother film for this in Levinson's filmography. He's done some crime stuff with Homicide, I guess, and then the time period is his singular obsession or one of.

[Sean Fennessy]

His great obsessions, obviously 1950s America. And sort of the lie underneath the sheen of the 1950s is something that he is very focused on. But he's usually focused on ordinary people, very regular people. He seems middle class guy from Baltimore. That seems to be what he most kind of drives his interest in this time period. I mean, Bugsy to me is a big failure of a movie. It's a movie that kind of has all of the component parts. You've got Beatty and Keitel and you've got this TOBAC script and it's Oscar nominated and all this stuff. And then you watch it, it's just kind of like a slog. And it reminds me a lot of this movie which kind of has like no juice, no energy. There's no like the pacing of the script is very strange. Doesn't really feel like I couldn't tell if all of that hyper focusing on archival photos and de Niro delivering 25 years after the conclusion of the story.

[Chris Ryan]

Into camera details as sort of Kodachrome Kodak slideshow of his life. Basically, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which I think Also, if you don't know the story of Genovese and Costello, then it kind of is like, so Costello lives, you know, like it kind of just gives away the game immediately. You're like, why? So why are they, why did they frame the movie like this? Yeah, because if you watch Goodfellas for the first time, you may know that it's based on the life of Henry Hill, but you probably didn't know how it concluded unless you were reading the New York Post every day back then. So I think that's a very odd choice structurally. And let's talk about De Niro. I think this is actually not bad what he does in the movie. I think he's too old for this part. You put this in the notes and I completely agree with it. It clearly seems like the veto part was written for Joe Pesci or Joe Pesci esque figure. And he's doing a kind of Joe Pesci, I don't think badly.

[Chris Ryan]

No, but that, I think the, the depiction of Vito is while exciting, you know, because he's just got this hair trigger temper and like anything anyone says he can be like, nah, I don't think so. Fuck you. Like, you know, like he has a kind of like energy to him. It's, it's a little under baked in terms of like. I know that Barry Levinson has talked about how this was originally thought of as a Frank Costello piece. It was supposed to be a movie about Frank Costello. And then over the course of development, De Niro was like, I want to play both parts. It's going to be like these two sides of like, of a mobster. Yeah. And I, I think that was probably to the film's detriment. Although weirdly, De Niro does look like both of these guys. The makeup job is really good. And I will say to the film's credit, like Dante Spinati shot it, who's a wonderful cinematographer. It does have like a warmth to it that at times is, is enjoyable. The production design is pretty top notch. Like it looks cool in places. And the makeup is obviously like very, very well done where he looks pretty much like the photos of these two guys, if that matters to you. I know that when you're going into something like this, you're like, how photorealistic is it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it was a nice camel coat in the, in that park scene where he's doing his interview. Nice Central park west apartment.

[Sean Fennessy]

Was that you conducting the interview?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that was me because I didn't know anything about what was happening. Except, I guess, that Frank Costello lives. Yes. If this stunt casting is meant to show, like, two sides of one person, or like, they. They have a lot in common. But also that, you know, you can make decisions and turn out this way, or you can make out decisions and meet this fate. I'm. I would agree with Chris that the. This script and maybe even the performance doesn't really, you know, pay out on that experiment. And it mostly just is Robert De Niro doing a Joe Pesci impression. The movie needs some of that life. It needs.

[Chris Ryan]

Well. Cause the Costello side of it is essentially a guy watching tv.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't really understand making Costello the center of this story. Cause Costello is Ace Rothstein from Casino Without Vegas. I mean, he is like a kind of diplomat leader. He's somebody who is willing to put himself before Congress, who sort of like the gentleman chap of the Mafia.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And he's installed in the, I believe, in the history of the Mafia. I think the movie kind of makes it sound like he took it from Vito, but in fact, like, he was installed when Lucky Luciano fled to Italy.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. And Vito had gone to prison. So Vito did a stint in prison. Which is the sort of, like, engine of the movie, is that Vito disappears for a while and when he returns, he wants cornerback, so to speak. And he doesn't get it. The movie, I think, is like a fun little portal into a period of history that I don't know how much of this you've read about or care about. We've read about it a lot growing up in New York, especially the sort of latter stages of this story, particularly leading to Vinny Chinn, the Cosmo Jarvis character, who went on to become an iconic staple of New York tabloids. Because he was, as they very briefly mentioned at the end of this movie, pretending to be crazy for like, 15 years on the streets of New York wearing a bathrobe and muttering to himself to avoid being arrested for being the head of the New York Mafia.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, how many hours a day do you have to commit to that performance?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, you don't have. Like, he was on 4, 7.

[Sean Fennessy]

He was in the Post every day. He was on the COVID like eight times.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, okay, like, it's 11. Like, I gotta put the bathrobe on.

[Chris Ryan]

I kind of feel fresh out.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then you go back in. Can I ask you something? Just.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because I don't know as much about this, the history of the Mafia, or, you know, I haven't done my independent research. What is it that leads both of you to spend hours at a time doing independent, like, what?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's really interesting. I mean, the crime in general is really interesting, especially crime that has kind of, like, ornate construction. And the Mafia has all these codes and these conceits and these. This way that they live by. And I got into it because of movies. I got into it, and then the Sopranos, like, the movies show you these things also. I've told this story before. I think I told it on the Goodfellas podcast. But I grew up across the street from a really, really kind guy named Dominic Natali. He was our across the street neighbor, and his wife Angela, and their daughter married Nick Pileggi's uncle. So. Or, excuse me, married Nick Pileggi's nephew. So I met Nick Pileggi when I was a kid. I was surrounded by Italian American culture. I was domen. Angela babysat me until I was 10 years old. And so, like, the kind of, like, mambo Italiano, you know, Goodfellas Scorsese culture was just kind of a part of my life when I was a young kid. And my dad, of course, was a cop. So my dad would go over to Dom's house and they would start talking about this stuff. And Dom was, like, a real Italian guy, and my dad was a real Irish cop. And I could feel, like, the friction between those two experiences. And so it naturally, like, makes you curious about things. The problem with, like, this is the ultimate, like, could have been an email movie, though, you know, like, we don't really, like, there's no. There's no dramatic dynamic.

[Chris Ryan]

Just to answer your question, like, I also, like, grew up when the Mafia was still somewhat present in South Philadelphia. And it had, you know, if you watch Irishman, you'll see a lot of Philadelphia stuff.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I guess it's just like, an Atlanta thing.

[Chris Ryan]

There was always rumors of the mayor.

[Sean Fennessy]

Why are you not more interested in, you know, Jeezy and Big Meech and.

[Chris Ryan]

Trap, you know, like, one of the problems with this film, though, is that it is essentially covering the ground that some of the greatest American films ever made has already covered. So, yeah, the Kefauver hearings are dramatized in Godfather 2. You know, like, the Appalachian meeting is referenced in Goodfellas. It's nice to see it on screen here. But it. This essentially functions as a prequel to the Irishman, something that happens in between moments of Henry Hill's youth and adulthood in Goodfellas.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's kind of the parts they skip.

[Chris Ryan]

In Goodfellas and is essentially godfather to, you know, Vito Don Bartini. And Godfather is based on Vito. Frank Costello is one of the inspirations for Vito Corleone. Like, we got it. Like, you can't. And it's not like, oh, man, maybe Godfather 2 and Goodfellas and Irishman left some meat on the bone here. And one of the things that I found a little bit melancholy about watching this movie is I remember all of the Irishman stuff being like, we wanted to tell this story one more time with the wisdom of age. And I got Joe De Niro gets Joe Pesci to do Irishman. Joe Pesci's like, we've done this, We've done this. I don't want to do the Mafia thing again. He's like, yeah, but like, this is about these guys looking back on the end of their lives and thinking about the violence and the destruction.

[Sean Fennessy]

Was it all worth it? What was it for?

[Chris Ryan]

And it's kind of like the. It's like, oh, and then you just did it again, you know? Cause you could or because you had bills to pay or whatever. And it's a little bit tough.

[Sean Fennessy]

The Irishman is the signature old man Mafia movie. Most of these movies that are great tend to end with people in middle age either getting shot or sent to witness protection.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And also crucially, directed by Martin Scorsese.

[Sean Fennessy]

Or Francis Ford Coppola. Yeah, so it's a tough balance there. Barry Levinson, as far as I know, is also not Italian American. Not that that really necessarily matters. You didn't have to be Italian American to make this movie great. But it's just kind of a. It's. It's just a footnote movie in a story of a studio. To me, that's really what it amounts to is we're in this period with Warner Brothers where they're taking some big chances on high level auteurs like Paul Thomas Anderson, like Bong Joon Ho, like Maggie Gyllenhaal. And they're also, you know, this has been described in reports as kind of a favorite to the studio chief for his friends. I don't know. You know, I don't want to be ageist, but I'm going to just talk about this very quickly. So Barry Levinson is 82. De Niro is also in his 80s. Dante Spinatti is in his 80s. Nicholas Pleggy, I think is 94. These are wildly accomplished legends, giant movies. They are huge, huge figures. Dante Spinatti shot Manhunter. You know what I mean? Nick Pilledji wrote Goodfellas like, they're in the hall of Fame.

[Chris Ryan]

Forever.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't. This is not what I'd be doing in my 80s if I did that. I just wouldn't be doing this. I don't. I don't know what I'd be doing. This is not that.

[Chris Ryan]

Not.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not working that hard.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This question, like, looms over this podcast of. Of what you will be doing. You know, and you always say this. You know, that at some point, you believe you will reach a place, wine country zone, like an emotional mental state where you're like, I'm out, and I'm going to wine country. And I wonder if that's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, let me pose this to you both. We don't have to make this a psychological examination, because I want to know genuinely what you two think. I think you do things, like, to a much lesser extent, podcasting, but make art, make this work for Hollywood, because you like money, and you particularly like sort of acclaim and attention and the energy that comes with a new project. Right. Is that fair to say? Is there anything else that you get.

[Chris Ryan]

Out of exactly why I think they.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did this, and is that what it is? Because that's not something I'm addicted to like, that. Particularly when I'm, like, when I'm 60, I'm good.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll be completely candid that there are elements of this movie that make me feel like a professional group of people maybe took it over to just finish it and get, here's what we shot, and here's what I did, and now we're just going to stitch it together. A lot of the. Like, here's archival footage of a big band performance, and you're just like, why is this happening? Like, they're not watching a big band. There's no characters taking part in this. It's just an interstitial moment that, like, feels like it was stapled into the movie because they're like, well, here's. We have this part. In this part. In this part. And I. With all due respect to the incredible achievements of these guys, I don't really feel like this has a lot of authorship obviously attached to it. So I do think it's what you said, which is, like, these. I think it's. It's very addictive and very difficult to be like, what I want is to fade into obscurity.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You fast forwarded past money.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't. I said at the thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, but it's like money and. But I.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, I think the third option is obviously, like, a creative act is energizing in and of itself.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And there's people out there working, keep working.

[Chris Ryan]

They're working to stay alive. Like, I get it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm not, I'm not trying to judge. I think when it's iterative, it feels a little strange where it's like for Robert De Niro, the signature mafia actor of his time, to go back to the well at this stage, even though it does put him on the poster in a big movie that gets a wide release from a major studio, just kind of feels like a waste of time. And we know him to be a very adventurous actor, although I know he likes money too. So I guess I'm just kind of turning it over in my head because as I'm watching the movie, I was like, it is reflected in the story. Like when we see Frank Costello at the end, when we have these characters who are thinking back on like, why did I do this? What was it worth? It's much more penetrating in the Irishman, those big questions. But it's a part of the alto knights too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So I asked my dad, the number one Barry Levinson fan on this earth, to go see this film, which he did, and he was disappointed. He sent me an email with his thoughts. But this is the last sentence of his email. He said, for an older viewer, my dad is younger than any of the people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is your dad retired?

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he is retired.

[Sean Fennessy]

Retired.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But this is his perspective. For an older viewer, this is the way the world ends. Experience. This actor starred in Mean Streets and this director put homicide together. Question mark. And now we're doing this. So that's pretty depressing.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, you know, it is depressing, but at the same time. Yeah, I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

I really want to. I'm. I'm personally really resistant to, to doing a sky is falling thing, but it is, it is hard to not acknowledge that like is like, this is what we're gonna like. We're cashing in like political capital to make. And this is the thing. You're forcing someone to like greenlight. And I mean it was put out like with hardly any fanfare. It was, it died on the vine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why don't you share your viewing experience?

[Chris Ryan]

God awful. 11:00am A man, I think FaceTimed the entire film to his friend. And it was me and just one other guy and we were in like deep seats. So it's like I wasn't like bothering me, but every once in a while I would hear on the phone someone be like, damn.

[Sean Fennessy]

I saw it at 3:30pm at an AMC and it was me and four other singles. Four men and myself in the prime theater at the Americana right next to.

[Chris Ryan]

The IMAX to watch listeners.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, a lot of single men interested in crime and storytelling. It was quiet, there was no FaceTiming in the room, but it was, There was no energy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Six or seven people in mind, which was noon on a Friday. And there might have been another woman. I do think that she.

[Sean Fennessy]

So two women have seen this movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really understandably, checked her phone at some point. But you know, who among us. And I wouldn't say that like the audience was really involved in what was going on on screen. You know, there wasn't like a lot of energy surging towards the screen, if you will.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, this is a depressing movie. I don't want to draw too many conclusions about what you're describing because on the flip side, Warner Brothers is making the PTA movie. Did make Mickey 17. It is doing all this other stuff that is going to be considered very risky and then it's going to come out and not be financially successful and people are going to stroke their chins and be like, I told you so. And then we're never going to get any good movies. So if this is the price to.

[Chris Ryan]

Pay for 5, is this the price to pay? Have we just arrived at this in Hollywood?

[Sean Fennessy]

It used to be this. It used to be, I'll give one for my buddy so that the other person can have a shot. Now it's, you have to make five IP driven projects and maybe we'll make one cool movie. So to me, this actually does feel like an old fashioned version.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, even adjusted for inflation, the way that budgets seem to be expanding right now, which is why I think there's so much pocket watching of Warner Brothers is that if it's like just if one battle after another is a $70 million movie or a $60 million movie, everybody's just like, what a great, what a great thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Chris Ryan]

Like, are we just not adjusting for triple digit budgets being what we need to like attach to any film?

[Sean Fennessy]

Now I try to not spend too much time talking about budgets on the show because they're all. None of them are honest.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then the marketing and. Yeah. How much money is allocated to each film.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exactly. And so sometimes you'll see a movie and it'll say it was a $30 million movie, but like Anora Nora spent more money on the movie, so. And like whatever PTA gets to spend, I don't care. It's like he's been making movies on smaller budgets his entire career. So it doesn't mean a lot to me. The idea of, like, somebody like Bong or Ryan Coogler getting big budgets, I think is just straight up good. Just like you're talking about filmmakers in the prime of their career who have earned the right by dint of their success to get to do more. And whether they work or not is up for debate. Obviously, this one just feels like closing business at the end of a run. You know, like, this is maybe the last movie that Levinson will make. It's probably not the last thing De Niro will do. He's on a fucking streaming show on Netflix this year too. But, oh, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Had that pan out. Did you finish it?

[Chris Ryan]

Not great. You want me to spoil it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Spoilers for zero Day.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Zero Day.

[Chris Ryan]

He is an ex president who is now investigating the cyber attack on the country. And it turns out that the cyber attack was partially orchestrated by his daughter, a very AOC coded congresswoman played by Lizzy Kaplan. And it was to shake America out of its stupor.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, okay. Wow. So what is. What's Bobby gonna do with that info?

[Chris Ryan]

I can't remember the exact coda of the film, but I think Angela Bassett remains in office.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

I mean, this is just President Angela Bassett.

[Sean Fennessy]

President Angela Bassett. And Lizzy Kaplan is the daughter of a former president.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Lizzy Kaplan and Chelsea Clinton orchestrate a cyber attack.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This does not make me excited about aging. That's just kind of.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is there anything that does make you excited about aging?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't know. When you talk about the life of, you know, when I'm done and I can just, like, hit Napa, late 50s.

[Sean Fennessy]

In wine country is where I'm headed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. But if, like, as, you know, making content. If this is how the world ends, as my dad put it, I don't know.

[Chris Ryan]

I will be following Robert De Niro's lead, where, if necessary, I will podcast with another man played by me, in full makeup, and we'll just argue about severance season four, which will probably have come out by the time I'm 20 years from now.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was wondering if you were gonna make me really belly laugh like you just did. Cr. Who'd be the best person to wear cr? Old man makeup?

[Chris Ryan]

No, that's me.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, but, like, what other actors have.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm Jack.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Shoot.

[Chris Ryan]

We're gonna shoot this side of me, and then I'm gonna shoot that side of me. I don't need anything.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You don't think AI could do that in the corner? Just being like, so what's happening Here.

[Chris Ryan]

Christopher shooting at night here.

[Sean Fennessy]

Honest question.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I could not ask Chris a more honest question. This is direct. If you could replace Andy Greenwald on the watch with AI Chris Ryan so that you could talk to yourself.

[Chris Ryan]

I would never do it. It's why I love potting with you guys. Love potting with Andy. It's, it's the chemistry with you guys. It's, it's not replicable. You know, I'll probably quit when you guys are done.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, you'll quit when we're done.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. I'm not going to just start up again with like a bunch of other people, right?

[Sean Fennessy]

What do you mean you got to bring in a bunch of 26 year olds to fluff you your ego.

[Chris Ryan]

This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. It's starting to look like spring. And spring starts with savings at the Home Depot. There are savings for every project. Whether you're starting with a queen slate with convenient cordless power like a new pressure washer or leaf blower, or starting to love the yard again with colorful flowers and fresh mulch. Start your spring with early savings at the Home Depot. Shop [e-mail] today @t mobile I'm joined.

[Sean Fennessy]

By a special co anchor.

[Chris Ryan]

What up everybody? It's your boy, big Snoop. Do double G Snoop.

[Sean Fennessy]

Where can people go to find great deals?

[Chris Ryan]

Head to T mobile.com and get four iPhone 16s with Apple Intelligence on us plus four lines for 25 bucks. That's quite a deal, Snoop.

[Sean Fennessy]

And when you switch to T mobile you can save versus the other big guys.

[Chris Ryan]

Comparable plans plus streaming.

[Sean Fennessy]

Respect.

[Chris Ryan]

When we up out of here, see.

[Amanda Dobbins]

How you can save on market, wireless.

[Sean Fennessy]

And streaming versus the other big guys. @t mobile.com/apple intelligence requires iOS 18.1 or later. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Garbage Scorsese. This is interesting. You know, Martin Scorsese is really in the news right now in a couple of ways. One, he makes, I'm sure people have seen, if they've seen the trailer, a very funny cameo. Very funny cameo in the studio. The new Apple TV plus series from Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg that comes out on Wednesday.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say his single greatest acting performance.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's so funny in the show. You haven't had a chance to see this show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I'm very excited.

[Chris Ryan]

Perhaps Taxi Driver, but he's good in.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot of movies, honestly. But he's very good in this one. This is a TV show. And then also, very quietly, the movie magazine Dreams was released over the weekend. You guys haven't had a chance to see it.

[Chris Ryan]

I haven't.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I saw it at Sundance two years ago. Maybe even more than that, I can't recall. This is a new movie starring Jonathan Majors, directed by Elijah Bynum, who will come up again in this conversation. And after Jonathan Majors got into some trouble and was eventually convicted of domestic violence, violence charges, the movie very much went away. But when it came out at Sundance, I saw it. I think I gave it a pretty negative review on the podcast. But he is. His performance is amazing in the movie, but the movie is just straight up. What if. Taxi Driver, but a bodybuilder. It's about, like a sort of deeply unbalanced, violent individual who's motivated by this one goal, who can't see the world around him and goes to crazy ends. The movie is hard to watch. No fun ripping off stuff that we've seen before. But it is a prime example, I think, of not just the mafia being a part of. What does it mean to be garbage Scorsese? Certainly Goodfellas is probably the movie that looms largest over a generation of film directors who saw it and sought to bring that energy. And if you just take a movie with a bunch of young, cool guys and you put a couple of needle drops from the 50s and the 70s and say, Go, then you're doing Garbage Scorsese. But then there's other versions of it, you know, that Raging Bull, Taxi Driver.

[Chris Ryan]

And King of Comedy.

[Sean Fennessy]

King of Comedy for sure. And, you know, the Departed and All the Way through are huge influences. And not just the crime stuff specifically, but the tonality, I think, of his movies, the, like, sick sense of humor, the slickness through which he tells it. And then the self loathing, Yes, a lot of inner hatred, a lot of, like, rejection of where you come from, but an inescapability of that identity. There are some Scorsese movies that I think don't really apply. You know, I don't see a lot of, like, Age of Innocence. Silence.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Their loss.

[Sean Fennessy]

I agreed.

[Chris Ryan]

More.

[Sean Fennessy]

More people should be watching silence.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think Little Women is the garbage Scorsese of Age of Innocence?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't. I don't know. There's not a lot of self loathing in that. Also, you Know, that movie does feature more women than your average Scorsese movie, which is not a shot at Scorsese. And he has written some, you know, he has directed some great women parts and performances, but like, that's still about a man, you know, not.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think he's directed more women to Oscars than men.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, it's just the woman ness. And again, there's not as much self hatred in Little Women.

[Sean Fennessy]

What else do you think of when you think of this kind of a movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I think for garbage genre pods that we do, it's useful probably to relate the film that you're talking about, the garbage movie that you're talking about, to one of the original texts. So that was sort of my operating philosophy and my selections. I did want to ask you guys whether or not you had any trouble picking movies because you couldn't tell where garbage Scorsese ended and garbage Tarantino began.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm glad you asked.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Interesting.

[Sean Fennessy]

I made a long list and there is bunched in the long list from 92 through 99, there's a lot of. Is this Pulp Fiction or is this Goodfellas?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And there is a smashing together. You know, like, they're the kind of like faux Tarantinos. The like, things to do in Denver when you're deads also have a ton of Scorsese in them.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I think the scripts are usually very Tarantino and the filmmaking style is usually very Scorsese y. So I think there is maybe more crossover than I would realize.

[Chris Ryan]

Maybe there's more like pop culture references and there's more like guys sitting around a table, like, kind of discussing their version of the Like a Virgin lyrics or whatever.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exactly, exactly. But I think that, I mean, it goes back to the 80s. That's how I know that it's not just the Tarantino thing.

[Chris Ryan]

I would say that a lot of. I would say I leaned more contemporary films. So I. My selections. But I'm happy to jump in wherever.

[Sean Fennessy]

A lot of the 80s stuff that I wrote down are mostly good movies that bear a very strong Scorsese influence. So, I mean, Scarface is, you know, obviously a huge. Owes a debt to Scorsese and Coppola in many ways, even though it's made by one of their friends and it's quintessential Cuban Miami tale and not an Italian tale. But just like the energy, the violence, the quick cutting, the use of pop music and the score. And then like the Pope of Greenwich Village, Prizzi's Honor, Michael Cimino's Year of the Dragon, Mona Lisa, Wall street, the Oliver Stone movie is very Scorsese. You know, very different from Platoon, you know, Married to the Mob, Black Rain. These are all movies that are, like, slick, crime focused movies that have some laughs, have some extravagant violence. But a lot of those movies are really good. So they're not garbage. They're just influenced by Martin Scorsese's stuff.

[Chris Ryan]

It's also interesting that Scorsese's style has evolved over the years. I mean, he still obviously has a style that he uses, I think, more for films like Silence that's a little bit more contemplative. But even the Wolf of Wall Street, Killers of the Flower Moon, Irishman, even Departed, I would even say he started messing around with this, where it's taking elements of what we associate with Scorsese's style and tweaking it to the point where it's almost avant garde. Starting scenes, restarting scenes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, Like DJ effect.

[Chris Ryan]

He's experimenting with himself, the music using pop needle drops as an almost disorienting kind of. We're gonna run it backwards and then start it later in the song and then start it from the beginning. And he's kind of always messing around with what we expect, even though he delivers very reliable thrills. But I found that that whole thing, that the fact that he has evolved so much in the last 15 years changed, like, how I looked at, like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's hard to identify. And that is what makes him one of the greats and has been so rewarding about the last 15 years, is that he is very much engaging with the types of movies that he makes and the idea of what a Scorsese is. And I do feel like when we are. When we make our garbage Scorsese list, it will be referencing the same movies that he has basically been referencing in the last 15 years of work, which is, you know, kind of ends with Goodfellas and I guess, Casino. But, like, you know, here's a question. Like, is Casino eligible?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, is the Departed eligible?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Because in a way, they are. Like, there's like, Scorsese plays himself, but they are. And I think. And it's, like, unfair because both of those movies are good. And I think that there is something interesting about Scorsese, like, working with his own genre conventions or whatever. But, like, it's kind of what we mean.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, Casino is the more interesting example. To me, the Departed is like, that's a script that is an adaptation of an Asian film that has gone through, like, many different iterations. And he kind of brought his very. That style that Chris is talking about where he's just, like, chopping up his own shit. It feels like a little. It's Boston, you know, it's like a little bit different. Casino is like, these are kind of the same characters in a lot of ways. It's the same arc. It's the same. You know, the other thing that a lot of garbage score. Stacey, Movies have is narration. Bad narration historically. So I think that's kind of an inspired call. I think there are some movies that predate Casino, but even when Casino was released, I remember this as a teenager, they were like this again. He's going back to this well, which I think is a little silly. It'd be like John Carpenter made another scary thriller. Like, this is what you do.

[Chris Ryan]

We basically needed five years to kind of separate the two pieces and be able to appreciate Casino on its own merits rather than as an extension of. And in the same way, now you can kind of look back, but for.

[Sean Fennessy]

The record, no one will ever be able to appreciate your thoughts about Casino because they were not properly recorded.

[Chris Ryan]

I was working with Brian Wilson that day, and he just decided not to mic me up. But you can look back at Goodfellas, Casino, and Irishman as his Godfather trilogy, you know, and it has its own prequel with Mean Streets, you know, it's great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Marty, where do you start this. Because I like what Amanda said. Because he knows an amusing wrinkle to the list.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll start with my most. Should I just throw one out there? Yeah, I can start with my most recent selection, Bike Riders.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also on mine, undeniably, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Chock full of needle drops, somewhat ironically detached narration spanning a decades or at least several years of a subculture featuring some very obvious, like, main character being pulled in two different directions by his domestic life and his criminal life. Just a lot of the hallmarks of it, I think. You know, Jeff Nichols based this film off of a book of photographs, but filled it in with, basically, what if Goodfellas on bikes? And I mean that as a compliment. I did enjoy Bike Riders.

[Sean Fennessy]

Do you think we should work backwards in time so that we get to the early 90s?

[Chris Ryan]

If you'd like to.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

Would you like to nominate one?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, Bike Riders was on my list. I don't. I mean, then I have to. I have a 2019 nominee.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's great.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Does that count?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it works.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And this was. This was on your long list. But I do think Hustlers fits, you know, an underworld in this case of a group of strippers in New York who are working together to, you know, illegally obtain some, you know, money. But also, like, there's some righteousness on their side. Like, weird framing device that doesn't, like, totally work, but it's not, like, quite nervous.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is it, like the interview with the police department.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes, it's an. No, no, no. It's Jessica Pressler, the New York magazine journalist who wrote Julia Stiles.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is like, doing the interview.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So it's not quite narration, but again, like someone after the fact. The main person who gets swept up in the. In the case and needle drops of a kind.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And, like, criminal. Sure. And like, you know, and a period piece of sorts.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fun movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a good one. There's some obvious ones that I don't want to like. We could do Joker, because Joker is such an overt homage.

[Chris Ryan]

I have one for you that sort of riffs off of Joker a little bit. I have two films from 2017. One is you were never really Here, which is Lynne Ramsey's, I would say, variation on Taxi Driver. In fact, it is. What if the overhead slow mo shot in Taxi Driver was an entire film, Psychologically, emotionally. Joaquin Phoenix plays this avenging angel assassin who is essentially going out trying to free people from child trafficking until he finds himself at the center of a political conspiracy. And it's actually like, a pretty disturbing film and a very prescient one of where, like, fever dreams kind of were going in American culture. But it doesn't necessarily feature the frenetic Scorsese that we're talking about. But it's certainly. It's the Paul Schrader side of Scorsese, I would say.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's an interesting one. I saw that cited in a lot of places as sort of like Scorsese esque because of that Taxi Driver construction. Really interesting movie, I think. Lynne Ramsey. I don't think she's made a movie since this movie. She's got one coming, but she has one coming. Die My Love with Robert Pattinson and Jennifer Lawrence. Later this year, I will nominate Hot Summer Nights, which is a 2017 movie as well. Directed by Elijah Bynum, who made Magazine Dreams. You and I saw this movie at south by Southwest, Chris. And have you ever seen this movie?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is one of the earliest films starring Timothee Chalamet. He plays a young man spending his summer at Cape Cod and getting into trouble. It's a little bit of like. It's Cape Cod, Goodfellas. In a lot of ways. First half of Goodfellas, teenage kid starting to deal drugs, starting to get in too deep, falls in love with a girl played by Micah Monroe, Thomas Jane and Emory Cohen as high level dirtbags. I don't think this movie is good at all.

[Chris Ryan]

But did we say that when we walked out we were like, damn.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think. I don't think so. I don't think it was the. The.

[Chris Ryan]

No, but you know what it was, is I think it was like it wasn't the long. When we first saw this movie, I think we both walked out. It's like three hours long.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know what the final cut because I haven't seen it since we saw it.

[Chris Ryan]

We walked out of this movie. We were like, it's almost uncomfortable how much like of the stuff that we are into is in that movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, that's definitely true. I think it's very much like guy who watched Boogie Nights but didn't realize Paul Thomas Anderson was ripping off Martin Scorsese. That's kind of how it feels, you know, like snap zooms and tracking shots and bad narration and all of these kind of signatures. And like a young guy who's kind of innocent but kind of a dirtbag. But like you're rooting for him, but he's not doing the right thing. And if only he could just get his shit together. But it's interesting to watch Timmy if people haven't seen this at this stage of his career without like a really strong guiding hand because his performance is like a little all over the place. But it is exactly what I'm thinking of when I say garbage. Scorsese. Okay, let's do some more. What do you got?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, me again. Yeah, well, okay, I don't want to, like, now that we've introduced the chronological element, I'm like, oh, am I going to.

[Sean Fennessy]

You can go too far back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

It can be loose.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, this one is sort of obvious because there are many directors we love who are just like, well, now I'm going to do my gangster, like my mob movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

Barry Levinson. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So Ridley Scott has tried it several times, but American Gangster seems pretty dead on in terms of you've got Denzel, you've got Russell Crowe as the cop. They're circling each other throughout the movie. And also our anticipation for it. We really did think it was gonna be. Ridley Scott finally made his version of Martin Scorsese movie and then it was the garbage version.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Very affectionate about this movie. I completely Agree with you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's. It's not. We like all of the. It's very co. I mean, it's a fucked up movie. So it's not cozy, but, like, it is comforting that it hits all of the beats.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

The worst part of this movie is the best part of the movie, which is the final 10 minutes when Crow and Denzel go toe to toe after Denzel's been arrested. And they're spending time together and interacting, and you're like, why is the movie not these two guys interacting? There's like the heavyweight movie stars of their time, and so they, like, tease you out with that. Like, it's meant to be like a heat kind of like. Wait for it. Wait for it. But following Frank Lucas and following this kind of seven.

[Chris Ryan]

What was this?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, is it 07? I thought it was older. Newer than that, because I feel like.

[Chris Ryan]

This was this in doe country where the Brolin sons.

[Sean Fennessy]

Brolin is fantastic. Brolin's death scene, it was incredible with the blood splattering on.

[Chris Ryan]

The only thing better is Idris.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Fuck you gonna do, friend?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's become one of the great memes. Okay, Chris, you got another one?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. How about I'll throw a kind of out of. This is the one I was thinking of where I was like, I can't tell. Where Marty ends and Quentin begins is Observe and Report, which is a little bit of the crime Scorsese with the deluded clown Scorsese of King of Comedy, but it's. Seth Rogen plays a mall cop, basically, who wants to. Has big dreams of being a police officer. It's very uncomfortable, but very wild movie. Jody Hill, who's obviously in the. Danny McBride, David Gordon Green School, made this. This was. Is this the last feature he made?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, he made the. I think the Way of the White Tailed deer.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, that's right. With Brolin.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's right.

[Chris Ryan]

Which.

[Sean Fennessy]

I also saw it south by Southwest. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. So this is. This is a. This is one that I was thinking of because it combined a couple of different kinds of Scorsese gestures and also has a lot of needle drops and fun filmmaking stuff.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very funny Anna Faris performance in that movie. I think the. I think the one of the. There's two. I'm gonna. I'm take two. There's two big dogs, and we can talk about them if you've seen both of these movies. One is Blow, which is Ted Demme's 2001 film starring Johnny Depp about a drug trafficker who gets in way over his Head that is the most like give me shelter, Needle drop, Rip off Attempt, Ted Demi, Dark Jar. I like Late, great director, co creator of YOMTV raps among other things. And then Alpha Dog, which is one that occurred to me late. Directed by Nick Cassavetes, John Cassavetes son. That is about some young kids who get in over their heads with a drug dealer and terrible things happen. I think notable is maybe the first Justin Timberlake movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was going to say that's the one with Justin Timberlake.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's.

[Chris Ryan]

Neil Hirsch is in this.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's Emile Hirsch. Ben Foster plays an absolutely crazy guy in this movie. Bruce Willis is in it. Amanda Seyfried, J.T. harry, Dean Stanton. Like pretty sick cast. But one of those movies that both of these movies. I know people love Blow because they saw it when they were nine or whatever, but it's not good. I'm sorry to tell you guys. Alpha Dog was announced as a big event and I remember sitting in theaters and being like what. What does that. Why is this? Why do people love this? But same thing, like a lot of setup, a lot of like groups of guys where like the trust starts to dissipate and things go wrong and the energy seems really high until it all falls apart. Doesn't totally work. Alpha Dog. No. You must have been there as a JT fan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, of course. I was just more doing the math than how old Bobby was when he would have seen Blow and he was not old enough to. You weren't nine when it came out, so that's tough.

[Sean Fennessy]

What year did it come out? 2001. I was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, five. Yeah, five years old.

[Sean Fennessy]

You see it in theaters at five maybe, but it probably blocked it out, I think.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Five year old me wasn't ready for that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can we put Casino on?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, okay. Yeah. Casino is a good call.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Thank you.

[Sean Fennessy]

90S I have.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I. Well, I had two more 2000 still 21st century ones. One is Guillaume Cannes Blood Ties.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've seen it.

[Chris Ryan]

Clive Owen and Billy Crudup, Mila Coolis.

[Sean Fennessy]

Co written by James Gray and it.

[Chris Ryan]

Was co written by James Gray. Does it steal from any specific Scorsese film? Not necessarily as much as it feels like it is taking place in the neighborhood over from Mean Streets. It's set in 1974 in New York work and it's very James Gray. It's brothers and dads and lovers and you know, religion and whether or not we can lead just lives or whatever. But vibe wise, the. The filmmaking and this, the sort of the scenery of it is just like, we should just make more mean streets. Like, there should just be more movies that are like adjacent to mean streets. So I. I had that.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a fascinating movie. I've never talked to James about this one. It's definitely like, what if a French guy made Mean Streets? Including with French actors at times.

[Chris Ryan]

Marion Cotillard's in it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, Marion Cotillard, like, trying real hard to not be Marion Cotillard. And it's like, doesn't totally come off, you know, Matthias Schoenhaerts also, who's been known to play like a Brooklyn tough who's definitely just from Denmark, you know, like, doing his best to not be from Scandinavia.

[Chris Ryan]

What's the one he's in the Gandolfini with the drop.

[Sean Fennessy]

The drop? Yeah. I had to drop him on this long list as well. Yeah. Blood Ties is fun. Blood Ties has an incredible soundtrack.

[Chris Ryan]

Awesome. One of the great. What's the song that they used in the trailer? Oh, my God, dude, it's so good.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, Bad Girl by Lee Moses is the one that goes so hard. But there's Sam Cooke, Ace Frehley, Tommy James and the Shondells, Janis Ian. This is like, you know, Martin Scorsese roulette on this one. It's a good call. You want to do another one or no?

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, I was just going to say American Hustle.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Super garbagey. Emphasis on the garbage.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Really. Garbage. I just dislike this movie so much that. But yeah. But yes.

[Chris Ryan]

About.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

People trying to come up in the world through ill gotten means and ill gotten ways and big cocaine energy. A lot of cocaine energy. It feels kind of like 80 Scorsese right before and right after. Kind of getting clean. Kind of has a little bit of. I guess it's before Wolf of Wall street, but that's the same.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a little New York, New York where it's like way too slow but way too fast at the same time.

[Chris Ryan]

And a lot of vo.

[Sean Fennessy]

Lots of. Yeah. Voiceover that feels like it's stitching together fractured parts of a script. Again, I stand by. I love Amy Adams in that movie. I think that's one of her best performances. Everybody else feels like they're just a little bit off. Oh, Cooper is very entertaining when Cooper flips.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, that part is fun.

[Sean Fennessy]

Gosh, there's a lot I thought of Running scared. Not the 80s version, but the 2006 version starring the late Paul Walker.

[Chris Ryan]

Oh, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is a really cool movie with vera farmiga, Christopher McQuarrie's way of the Gun.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which is his, I think, his directorial debut after winning an Academy Award for the Usual Suspects, Ryan Phillippe and Benicio del Toro, which is very.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I feel like we could just Google Ryan Philippe piece, like screen credits. And then they all just get poured into this list.

[Chris Ryan]

For sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, the first two movies from Guy Ritchie are undeniably a part of this. Yeah. Lock, Stock and Snatch are both deeply.

[Chris Ryan]

You think that those are more Scorsese than Tarantino? It's almost like.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think they're both.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Just like Way of the Gun, I think, is both. I think usual. Usual Suspects, in its way is. Is both. But the two that stick out to me the most. I don't know if you've seen these. I know you've seen at least one of them. Maybe probably both of them. When I was. I'll tell the story. I played baseball in high school.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. And you didn't ump yourself, though, do some roles.

[Sean Fennessy]

That was for the Little Leaguers.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

When I was a teenager, I was on the baseball team. Our coach was Rob Graziano. You can imagine a Rob Graziano. Huge, huge fan of the films of Martin Scorsese. And, you know, he's a great coach, mentor to me, wonderful guy. And he put me onto a movie called Amongst Friends, which was made in 1993 and was directed by a guy named Rob Weiss. Here's the logline for the movie. Andy, Billy, and Trevor are three friends living the life of privilege on Long Island. Out of boredom, the inseparable trio are drawn into the action of the gangster criminal underworld inhabited by Andy's bookie grandfather, my coach, Graz. Mr. Graziano, was like, this is probably.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The best movie since Goodfellas in 1993.

[Sean Fennessy]

In 1993.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So, I mean, that's like three years, but whatever.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not as long as you might think. But it's discussed at length in John Pearson's Spike, Mike, Slackers and Dykes. And it was a part of this wave of small crime movies that were made in the aftermath of not just Goodfellas, but Reservoir Dogs and all the early 90s movies. And so I saw it and I was like, this movie's incredible. I was like, 11 when it came out.

[Chris Ryan]

You finally felt seen?

[Sean Fennessy]

I did. I was like, I, too, can be a piece of shit in the criminal underworld as a child of privilege on Long Island. And I'm looking at it on letterboxd right now, and it's only been watched by one mutual Dave Weigel, the semaphore Reporter who is a bit of a cinephile himself, if you follow him on letterboxd and he's given it one star.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's the only person who's seen this movie.

[Chris Ryan]

I've seen it. I just didn't log it on. Do we have to go retroactively log every movie we've ever seen?

[Sean Fennessy]

Almost every day I get somebody on social media being like, the feeling when I log a movie that Sean Fennesee has never seen and it's like, it's like Roman Holiday or something. And I'm like, sir, I've seen Roman Holiday.

[Chris Ryan]

So, like, somebody will at you and.

[Sean Fennessy]

Then, damn, they'll screenshot their letterbox. You'll be like, you haven't seen this, bro? And I'm like, come on, guys. I logged every movie I've ever seen. Who has time for that? Not me.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're not responding to them. Except for right now in this movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

I brought it up, which. Shame on me. So Amongst Friends is one of those. And then the other one is Laws of Gravity, which is, I know, is a CR classic.

[Chris Ryan]

Just talked about this with Richard Price.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right. So speak on it now.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, I just. So Nick Gomez was this up and coming indie filmmaker in the 90s and was very much kind of like the other side of what Sean is talking about, which is like, person with the camera gets their friends together, makes a little crime movie for 50,000 bucks and gets it in festivals. And he went on to have a really cool career. He directed New Jersey Drive after this and worked in On Homicide, Life on the Street. So it was like a very cool interview at the time. And when he made Laws of Gravity, which is basically like early, early, incredibly attractive. Edie Falco, I just have to say, yeah. Peter Greenhouse as like the wild cat. I just got out of jail energy. And Adam, I can't remember the guy's name, is the sort of straight friend who's trying to keep it. Yeah, trying to keep it together. Nick Gomez made this and then all the interviews was like, what are you going to do next? What are you going to do next? And he was like, well, I'd love to do Clockers. I'd love to do Richard Price Clockers. But I think Clockers is going to be like Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro, which is what it was originally going to be. And then it wound up being Spike Lee and Harvey Keitel. And Spike Lee rewrote Richard Price's script.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Chris Ryan]

And Richard Price, he saw a lot of things in it that I did not. And he's very gentlemanly about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Clockhurst is also on my long list, as is Nick Gomez's New Jersey Drive. You know, in the 90s, this is a real boom time scene.

[Chris Ryan]

I have Donnie Brasco for you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Donnie Brasco is a huge one. Donnie Brasco directed by the Brit. Mike Newell.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

The Brit.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, in between, it's Four Weddings and a Funeral. Right, right. Yes. And then also Notting Hill. So that's like, what he was saying is this.

[Sean Fennessy]

He did do 4h and if funeral Rain.

[Chris Ryan]

I think so Richard Curtis didn't do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He wrote it.

[Sean Fennessy]

He wrote it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. But he doesn't start. Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then there's a bunch of more sort of more mainstream studio movies that I think owe a huge debt. You mentioned Clockers Get Shorty, which is an Elmore Leonard adaptation, but is very, like, movie made for people who've seen all the Scorsese movies. Paul Thomas Anderson's Hard Eight is undeniably influenced by a lot of these films. Like a blend of an Altman and Scorsese movie. The Wachowskis Bound, which we just mentioned on a future episode of this show. Spoiler or just a good tease. Okay. Suicide Kings.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Remember that movie?

[Chris Ryan]

Sure do.

[Sean Fennessy]

Seemed like a very important movie at the time. That's the other thing with the garbage Scorsese movies. When they hit, you're like, yeah, this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is gonna be a new voice.

[Sean Fennessy]

And then it's not.

[Chris Ryan]

Would you call Bronx Tale a Scorsese Scorsese, yeah. Little Chaz.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it's. I mean. Cause that's De Niro.

[Sean Fennessy]

One of only two movies directed by Robert De Niro. Can you name the other one?

[Chris Ryan]

The Good Shepherd.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right. Well, Chris knows because he's been reading the CIA files on John F. Kennedy's assassination. Did you know that the Good shepherd, this was recently pointed out by Alex Ross Perry, to me, is entirely made up. It's not based on anything.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. He's basically a fictional character that goes through all the, like, sort of major, you know, eras of CIA. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So when you wrote it, why did you write it that way?

[Chris Ryan]

Did Steve's Alien write that? Who wrote that?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think so. I think that's correct.

[Chris Ryan]

I didn't have any more older films. The last one that I had. The last one I had was Good Time Safdie Brothers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

Some more contemporary films.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a great example. Is it garbagey?

[Chris Ryan]

No, I think it's great. But I just wanted to throw it out there as, like, it has the. Has the kinetic energy of Mean Streets.

[Sean Fennessy]

What about Smoking Good Shepherd?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Just to save you guys from the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Notes, was not written by Steve Zalien. It was written by Eric Roth.

[Chris Ryan]

Gotcha.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

One of the other masters of Adaptation, the other graybeard of screenwriting genius. Smoking Aces. Sure seen that. Ryan Reynolds.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Andy Garcia, Chris Pine, Ray Liotta.

[Chris Ryan]

Common.

[Sean Fennessy]

Common. Alicia Keys.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah. Alicia Keys plays a sniper in that movie, right?

[Sean Fennessy]

Definitely.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Joe Carnahan is directing rip rip. Rip, which is the new film starring.

[Chris Ryan]

Rip, was Jeff Bridges and somebody else that's RIPD Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

RIPD Very different from rip, which is Ben Affleck. Matt Damon movie coming soon from Bill Carnahan. Excited about that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I have. Of course I am.

[Chris Ryan]

That's also Apple tv. Correct.

[Sean Fennessy]

Apple TV Plus.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Don't forget the Plus.

[Chris Ryan]

I don't have that, so.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, you don't have the plus. You have the 3.99 subscription.

[Chris Ryan]

They just show me ads for AirPods every five minutes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Do you think. Do you think Garbage Score CZ movies are good?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, they are some of my favorites.

[Sean Fennessy]

Do you think they're good?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Some of them. They're comforting. You know, there's nothing wrong with. I mean, I guess there can be a lot wrong with reheating the work at Cinematic Master just to watch people shooting each other, but it's an homage. It's done with love for the most part. It's because we all want to feel what we felt when we first saw Goodfellas.

[Sean Fennessy]

Is it love or is it a lack of creativity?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it could be both. But not everyone can be Martin Scorsese.

[Chris Ryan]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Genius does not walk among us every single day. So sometimes I know you're Chris or your AI Chris sitting across the table.

[Chris Ryan]

From it, you know, other Chris, prosthetic nose, saying, great point, Chris.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So it's. But that's okay. It's like that still makes you laugh, you know?

[Sean Fennessy]

So how come you don't do character work like that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Me?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, get in prosthetics. And would you consider it.

[Chris Ryan]

She does a lot of physical comedy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

More pratfalls and more. The Buster Keaton of podcasting. Martin Scorsese over here.

[Chris Ryan]

I was thinking about that. Is it a sign that we lack a little bit of creativity as a filmmaking community that this wonderful man has inspired so many knockoffs?

[Sean Fennessy]

It's hard because I think what happens is I thought of War Dogs, right? The Todd Phillips movie, which is very clearly garbage. Scorsese.

[Amanda Dobbins]

When don't we think of War Dogs?

[Sean Fennessy]

Another movie that on Paper. I'm like, this is all the pieces to the puzzle, except it's not good.

[Chris Ryan]

Great Bradley Cooper performance.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very entertaining. I wonder what that movie would be like if Martin Scorsese was never born. You know what I mean?

[Chris Ryan]

Counterpoint. Martin Scorsese himself is something of an encyclopedia of filmmaking and that all of his films feature French New Wave, Akira Kurosawa, Alfred Hitchcock, what have you. So, in truth, ripping off Scorsese is merely paying homage to the great films of all time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's not. It's not because he's omnivorous, but also he has a very specific style that he. I mean, part of it is just that for the first half of his career, I mean, obviously he's made a million movies and has done all sorts of things, but through Goodfellas or I guess through Casino, there is a very specific thematic, stylistic through line that is like, they're not just ripping off Scorsese. They're ripping off just like a little mini genre that he created and everyone truly loved.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think the tricky thing of garbage, Scorsese, I think you're right, is that it's an adoption of style, but not theme and motivation. So, like, what undergirds all the great Scorsese movies is this, like, battle between fate and consequence and faith and desire. You know, these, like, big ideas that are kind of coursing through him, using broad dramatic genre to tell stories about people in crisis. I guess War Dogs is kind of that, but it's more like Miles Teller's baby needs a crib, so he's gotta become an arms dealer, you know, like, isn't that the plot of the mov? You know, it's like a cool script, but it's like, it's not about Harvey Keitel's tortured soul in Mean Streets.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen.

[Sean Fennessy]

Whereas, like, he's going to be a priest or he's going to shoot guys in the head, you know, like, it's different.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's why it's garbage. You know?

[Sean Fennessy]

That's why it's garbage.

[Chris Ryan]

That's why it's garbage. Last question. Or my last question was, what filmmaker? Since Scorsese, and I'm still active, in fact, somehow is attached two projects right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Now, I think four.

[Chris Ryan]

Well, there's the Hawaii Departed. There's Marilyn Robinson's Home. There's. What are the other two?

[Sean Fennessy]

Devil in the White City is apparently.

[Chris Ryan]

Still cooking on Fox Nation right now with the Saints doc.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Which you have an upcoming episode about.

[Chris Ryan]

That's the first episode of me interviewing me.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think the Devil in the White City with Leo is still possible, Right? I think also his film about Jesus Christ with Ken Jones is apparently still happening. He was attached to the Wager, the David Grann nonfiction book was there Hawaii One. That was the first one going with the Rock.

[Chris Ryan]

That one seems like they made a quite a big production out of.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm waiting to hear from Martin Scorsese about that.

[Chris Ryan]

The Rock came out and was like, it's so great to be working with, like, the great martyr Scorsese.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

So that made it sound like that was going to happen.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are you implying that the Rock always tells the truth?

[Chris Ryan]

No, but I am implying that Emily Blunt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Martin Scorsese and the Rock want to go to Hawaii.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As do I.

[Sean Fennessy]

Here's my thing about that. I subscribe to your theory that people will often make movies like this to go on extravagant vacations and to be surrounded by beauty and history. But like, the Rock could just. He could go. To afford to go Hawaii. He just made Moana too. Like, I'm pretty sure he's been to Hawaii.

[Amanda Dobbins]

People like. I don't think Marty does really want to go to Hawaii.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know what he wants to do?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Watch movies.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sit in a dark room like me.

[Chris Ryan]

Watch films.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's running out of time.

[Chris Ryan]

I'm worried about Marty on the set of the Wager. You know, a lot of water, you know, a lot of, like, throwing guys around and that. So I'd like him to stay put, stick with Christ, you know? Yeah, there was a. I was looking at unmade Martin Scorsese projects blog posts, and there was one called Jesus Christ in New York, where it was just like modern day JC walking through.

[Sean Fennessy]

That was about me in 2006.

[Chris Ryan]

At a fucking dipset mixtape listening session.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm. I'm just. I'm really excited for Odyssey, our second season, which will be about the wager. You know, we're looking for projects right now. Once they're done in Greece, we'll just get you in that water tank, you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Know, can you just. For Alice purposes, can you just record a page by page reading of the Wager so that I can play it for her on the yoto every night?

[Chris Ryan]

Do you think that that would calm her?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it might. Yeah.

[Chris Ryan]

I'll read her Anna Karenina.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, that would certainly put her to sleep. Hey, now, closing thoughts. You feel good?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, we said we were gonna do a top 10, and this is like 15.

[Sean Fennessy]

We do that every 10.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. No, we don't.

[Sean Fennessy]

You wanna do the top 10?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I just didn't know whether you.

[Chris Ryan]

Wanted to start Good time, because Good time is actually a good movie. And. And I broke the reverse chronological order.

[Sean Fennessy]

Bike riders, hustlers, Hot Summer nights. American Hustle, American Gangster. Put American in your movie. Alpha Dog Blow. Donnie Brasco amongst friends. Laws of Gravity.

[Chris Ryan]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think I would have been better to have casino.

[Chris Ryan]

A lot of your choices.

[Sean Fennessy]

Most honorable mention. A lot of my choices.

[Chris Ryan]

The umpire and the player.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You're not. That wasn't good list making. You know I love you, but, like.

[Chris Ryan]

You were just like, you were like. I made some great calls.

[Sean Fennessy]

I made the long list, came up with the idea.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You did a great job. We appreciate you always. Okay, good. Like, you know, make your list.

[Sean Fennessy]

Fire away. Go ahead, big time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Bobby did deleted the long list. It's right here.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's on letterboxd. I send it to you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I know, but, like, our.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you know that I made it and I shared it with you, but nobody else has it.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, it's private.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's only us.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, wow.

[Sean Fennessy]

So only you guys have it?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's beautiful. Will you now release it to the public?

[Chris Ryan]

Did we have edit privileges?

[Sean Fennessy]

Could we have edited privilege?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't do anything.

[Chris Ryan]

Could we have added things to the list?

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe? I don't know. I don't know. I'm gonna call Jim letterbox right now. Okay, Jim. Okay, great. Well, like I said, 25 for 25 coming later this week, no tips.

[Chris Ryan]

Do you guys do Snow White yet?

[Amanda Dobbins]

We're not doing it even. Like, I really. I want to do Disney Princess Hell with Prince's dad over here. But, yeah, he's not available at this moment, so we'll ship him to Boston. I know the next princess movie will get in the mix.

[Chris Ryan]

It'll be me and Sean on a duck boat talking, talking Odyssey Night shoots.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, well, I'm looking for some microprocesses, so it's gonna be a while before I can see Snow White. Thank you to our producer, Bobby Wagner. Thank you to Jack Sanders. CR. What do you got cooking up?

[Chris Ryan]

Not much. I'm going to Boston. Yeah, it's all just what's on the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Watch when you're in Boston.

[Chris Ryan]

We're recording it tomorrow. It'll be Dope Thief, the Pit, and maybe some Top Chef. Maybe some Top Chef hasn't really.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You've really been neglecting Top Chef as someone who only knows what's happening on Top Chef when you recap it. And I appreciate that you want to honor Kaia's relationship to Top Chef, and you don't Want to spoil it for her?

[Chris Ryan]

We spoil the Pit every week for her.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, you know what? I think Kaia can catch up on Top Chef. I love you, Kaia. She does a great job on your Instagram.

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, she does, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She knows how to use all the stickers.

[Chris Ryan]

She does, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let me tell you something about the Pit. Haven't seen one minute of it. It's one of those shows that's like a show that somebody on a TV show is watching, and they're like, I love this show. And I'm like, oh, it must be fun for those characters, like you and Andy talking about the Pit. It's like, my buddies have something that I'll never have access to. Like, I just can't. I did watch Adolescence. Did you watch that?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I will never watch it because they, like. And I know Andy started off his recap of. Of the first one being, like, as a parent. It was okay for me. No, it's not okay for me. Won't be doing it.

[Chris Ryan]

What's your review?

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought it was terrific.

[Chris Ryan]

TV is back.

[Sean Fennessy]

Really powerful, and I thought your discussion, especially the second discussion that you guys had, was excellent. Thank you. It is terrifying to consider the real world stakes of that story, and very well made, and I thought impressively unshowy, given the strategy that they took to make it and wildly good performances. So I was very, very impressed.

[Chris Ryan]

That's great to hear. I'm glad you enjoyed it so much.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thank you, Dr. Television.

[Chris Ryan]

The Pit is harrowing, but there's something about it. It's reliably satisfying.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I've read ahead about the Pit, which was like, how to, you know, simulate a live birth for tv. And then it was like something involving a puppet, and I was like, once again, I'm out. I will not be watching this. I mean, that's cool.

[Chris Ryan]

It's an extensive, extensive birth scene.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's. It's. You know, I'm.

[Sean Fennessy]

How did it feel being so close to the scene? Did you feel energized? Do you feel moved by the spirit?

[Chris Ryan]

Yeah, you know, just wondered, you know, I guess that's the miracle of life. That's as close as I'm gonna get.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Chris Ryan]

Unless anybody wants to invite me into it.

[Sean Fennessy]

What do you mean? There's about to be a second Chris Ryan that'll be birthing soon on podcasts.

[Chris Ryan]

That's gonna be more like a severance thing. You know what I mean?

[Sean Fennessy]

Absolutely. You're innie and you're outtie. Okay, well, thank you for listening to this show. We'll be back later this week with 25 for 25. See you then.

[Amanda Dobbins]

SA.