What It’s Really Like at an Awards Show. Plus: Cliff Booth Returns and the Best Super Bowl Trailers!

Summary

The Big Picture — Feb 10, 2026

What It’s Really Like at an Awards Show. Plus: Cliff Booth Returns and the Best Super Bowl Trailers!

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Overview

In this episode, Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins dive into their inside experience attending the Directors Guild of America (DGA) Awards—a rare, industry-only event not televised to the public. They also break down this year’s buzziest Super Bowl trailers, including the surprise "Cliff Booth" spot (Tarantino + Fincher!), and reflect on the state of Hollywood awards, superhero fatigue, and the shifting landscape of movie marketing. In the final segment, Sean shares a lively conversation with Maggie Kang and Chris Applehans, co-directors of the animated hit "K Pop Demon Hunters," recorded in front of a live (and very young) audience.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Super Bowl Trailers Recap

(Timestamps: 02:32–33:59)

• "Adventures of Cliff Booth" — Tarantino + Fincher Netflix Project

  • Sean is excited by the 70s exploitation-style, faux-gag reel spot, noting its meticulous Fincher visuals and vintage vibe.
  • Amanda calls the scaled, creative “bleeping” both funny and effective for teasing the film’s naughtiness and tone.

    “It looks like a dingy, beautiful 70s exploitation movie, which is kind of what I hope it turns out to be.” – Sean (05:25)

  • They both appreciate the marketing’s secrecy, especially the lack of a titular reveal and official online trailer. (06:05)

• Other Super Bowl Movie Trailers

  • Disclosure Day—Mysterious Spielbergian vibes, big set pieces, but little plot given away.
  • Project Hail Mary—Both hosts are “sold” and want to avoid further spoilers.
  • Minions & Monsters—Amanda is “electric” for the mix of monster-movie and movie-making parody; Sean wonders if we’re at “peak minion.”
  • Mandalorian & Grogu (Star Wars movie)—They discuss the generational shift of Star Wars towards being kid-first; Amanda notes the lack of adult anticipation.

    “This is a movie purely for kids, and I think that's a good thing… it just feels small. And Star Wars should be big.” – Sean (24:00)

  • Supergirl—Both are lukewarm: Amanda “forgot to Google it,” Sean is worried it looks like a throwback to the weakest era of superhero films (25:50).

• On Superhero Fatigue & Industry Shifts

  • Long gap between superhero releases staggers them—longest since 2008.
  • Amanda observes video games are replacing superhero movies for “people who like screens.”

2. The DGA Awards: An Insider’s Night

(Timestamps: 34:10–63:15)

• Atmosphere & Experience

  • Sean and Amanda liken it to “being the plus ones at a large wedding”—glamorous but loose, focused on filmmakers and craft, not celebrities.
  • The Directors Guild Awards run at Beverly Hilton (also home to Golden Globes).
  • All feature film nominees give short speeches before the award—uncommon for awards shows and a treat for film lovers.

• Notable Moments & People

  • Kumail Nanjiani hosts—funny, with jokes tailored to filmmakers (“The difference between Michael B. Jordan and Michael Jordan... and Scottie Pippen and Scottie B. Pippen.”)
  • Conan O’Brien travel show producers Jason Chalemmy & Mike Sweeney sit at their table—Mike wins an award and gives a hilarious speech. (38:25–39:12)
  • On the Guild’s Structure:
    • The show spotlights assistant directors and below-the-line crew—rarely honored elsewhere.
    • Sean: “There was a lot of conversation throughout the night about what the Guild is. The Guild is not just Ryan Coogler and Paul Thomas Anderson…” (39:32)

The Big Five: Feature Director Nominees Presentations

(Timestamps: 46:19–61:09)

• Paul Thomas Anderson ("One Battle After Another")

  • Leonardo DiCaprio introduces him, telling a story of PTA showing up with a Laserdisc of Raging Bull and “a VHS of a John Holmes movie” to his mom’s house in the ‘90s. (47:33)
  • PTA speaks touchingly about the collective soul of filmmaking, quoting Steinbeck.
  • Dedication to his longtime first AD, Adam Sumner, was a key element of his speeches.

• Ryan Coogler ("Sinners")

  • Michael B. Jordan introduces Coogler, remarking on their creative partnership.
  • Coogler’s speech is direct, talking about union power, gratitude for the DGA and health insurance (because his child was sick at home), and referencing government overreach. (49:56)

    “I've always been grateful for these [union] cards, but I'm really grateful tonight.” – Coogler (49:56)

• Guillermo del Toro ("Frankenstein")

  • Jacob Elordi presents warmly (“I love you, Guillermo. I’m so happy to be in this movie…” – 52:07)
  • Del Toro starts the running joke of calling Nolan “President Nolan” and invites the audience to build model kits and eat quesadillas.
  • He’s generous, playful, and emotional—invoking collaboration and friendship.

• Josh Safdie

  • Timothée Chalamet’s intro is playful and very New York; tells a story about Safdie assigning “Mike Dipey” as an alias for no reason (56:13).
  • Safdie’s speech is deeply personal, about his immigrant father weaponizing Kramer vs Kramer during divorce—making movies is “how I process life.” (57:23)

• Chloe Zhao ("Hamnet")

  • Steven Spielberg introduces, referencing their difference in style (he jokes the set is “too dark”—Chloe: “it is lit”).
  • Zhao talks about process, naturalism and her Shakespearean source material.

The Spielberg-to-Nolan Baton Pass

(Timestamp: 78:19–80:55)

• Del Toro, PTA, and Kumail riff on Nolan’s new role as DGA president and Spielberg’s looming industry presence.
• Sean: “It was almost like Spielberg was passing the baton to Nolan or something as, like, the signature directorial voice in the world.”

Reflections on the Awards Race

(Timestamps: 65:15–76:08)

• DGA historically predicts Oscar best director—P.T. Anderson is now the favorite.
• Discuss possible splits (best pic/director) in Oscar voting history, and the open race between Sinners and One Battle After Another.

  “We both really love One Battle After Another… It is strange to be talking about this race while rooting for both films.” – Amanda (74:19)

Industry Changes and the Future of Award Shows

• Amanda and Sean express ambivalence about attending the Oscars (too much hassle/work!), and discuss the declining attendance at Academy screenings as voters watch at home via portals (76:08).

3. Interview: Maggie Kang & Chris Applehans (K Pop Demon Hunters)

(Timestamp: 88:08–118:30)

• Audience Q&A after midday screening at Vidiots—family-friendly, energetic atmosphere.
• Why Make the Film?
  • Kang: “We made the film for ourselves… for my young self, the 12-year-old self that loved K Pop and had to hide it.”
• Inspiration & Process
  • Both cite influences from anime (Cowboy Bebop), the tonal blending of Bong Joon Ho’s "The Host," and both classic and contemporary animation.
• Musical Creation
  • Songs were developed with extensive back-and-forth between Korean pop producers and Broadway-trained music supervisors (over a dozen tries for one song!).
• Themes: Female Friendship, Vulnerability, & Joy
  • Kang: “I truly believe true intimacy comes when you are the most silly version of yourself with somebody else… there’s power and confidence to be stupid.” (109:52)
• Why the Film is Resonating
  • Kang highlights how viewers identify with the film’s message about embracing scars, both literal and emotional.
  • Applehans calls it “sneaky deep”—using spectacle and humor to plant moving ideas that later bloom for the audience.
• Last Great Thing They Watched
  • Both mention “Sentimental Value” starring Alexander Skarsgård—a slow, European drama with subtle, powerful acting. (117:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sean on the DGA:

  “This is an untelevised award show that is always a little bit more interesting because you get a little bit of a looser crowd, a little bit of a looser energy at the show. And obviously we love filmmakers…” (34:10)

• Amanda on Star Wars’ changing focus:

  “Do you think they've given up on adults?” (23:47)

• Sean on Coogler’s impact:

  “Once again, Coogler is just the coolest guy in the world.” (49:49)

• Amanda on the DGA as an event:

  “I felt like we were the plus ones at a large wedding… kind of an ideal assignment.” (41:29)

• Maggie Kang on making "K Pop Demon Hunters":

  “For me it was just all ages of myself… the 12-year-old self that loved K Pop and had to kind of hide it. And this was like, yes, now we can celebrate this. I was right all along.” (89:55)

• Chris Applehans on animation tone:

  “Superficially [a scene] is a wacky moment, but it's actually advancing character… You're never just doing one of the things.” (98:16)

• Maggie Kang on female characters:

  “The comedy of it… we want it to feel stupid. And I think there's power and confidence… to be stupid is like… it takes a lot of courage.” (111:15)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:32 — Super Bowl Trailers Begin
• 05:25 — Cliff Booth/Fincher-Tarantino Discussion
• 20:02 — Star Wars: Mandalorian & Grogu Reaction
• 34:10 — DGA Awards: Arriving/Atmosphere
• 46:19 — Best Feature Presentations (Leo/PTA, MBJ/Coogler, Elordi/Del Toro, Chalamet/Safdie, Spielberg/Zhao)
• 63:43 — Non-Feature Awards Highlights, Documentary Speech
• 65:15 — Paul Thomas Anderson’s Win and What It Means
• 78:19 — The Spielberg–Nolan Presidential Transition
• 88:08 — Maggie Kang & Chris Applehans Interview
• 109:52 — On Writing Female Friendship & Intimacy
• 117:17 — “Last Great Thing” Seen: Sentimental Value

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Summary Takeaways

• Super Bowl movie trailers remain a huge marketing event but are increasingly focused on “vibes” rather than plot, with studios like Netflix and Universal playing games of secrecy.
• Hollywood is in an in-between period as superhero movies wane and awards shows focus more on industry than spectacle.
• The DGA Awards is a unique, collegial, craft-focused evening, prioritizing directors and their teams over superficial celebrity.
• Industry changes—like declining event attendance and shifting pop-culture priorities—reflect larger questions about moviegoing and fandom.
• "K Pop Demon Hunters" stands out for channeling complex, joyful themes about vulnerability, friendship, and representation, with Kang and Applehans illustrating the blend of personal and cultural storytelling that’s capturing global audiences.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode brings listeners directly into the room at one of Hollywood’s most authentic awards nights. You'll get unvarnished reports on the year’s tentpole marketing, the state of Star Wars, why the DGA Awards matters, and why the next generation of filmmakers is blending personal—sometimes silly—stories with global, genre-busting impact. Plus, if you want to know what it’s actually like to attend a big awards show…and which movies you should be truly excited for in 2026, this is the definitive dispatch.

Transcript

[Amanda Dobbins]

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[Maggie Kang]

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[Amanda Dobbins]

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[Maggie Kang]

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[Amanda Dobbins]

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[Maggie Kang]

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[Amanda Dobbins]

Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tremphfireradio.com.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm Sean Fennessy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm Amanda Dobbins and this is the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Big Picture 8 conversation show about our trip to the Directors Guild of America Awards Dinner and what it's really like in an awards show. We'll have an interesting conversation digging into that experience later in the show. I have a conversation with Maggie Kang and Chris Applehans, the co directors of K Pop Demon Hunters. Perhaps you've heard of it. The talk happened after a midday screening of the movie at our local nonprofit theater, Vidiots. You were there, Amanda. It was a fun time. Pandemonium for our kids. Yes, Maggie and Chris, they made a really fun movie that has obviously completely changed the lives of many people around the world. So we had a good chat. I hope you will stick around for that conversation when we come back from our break. We will talk about these super bowl trailers right after this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This episode of the Big Picture is presented by State Farm.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into? The ones who'll debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at three in the morning. Those friends are gold.

[Amanda Dobbins]

State Farm is like that, helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits. Car, home life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award winning app.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Okay, we're a little late this week because you and I have both been felled by illness, but we're back. We're back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We're on our Feet we're building back better.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sort of something like that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

One set of time.

[Sean Fennessy]

Hopefully not Joe Bidenesque in terms of building.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The other dominoes in my family have fallen, but are working their way back up.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, we're all trying to get better every day. I did watch the super bowl in its entirety, even though I said I would not. And let me tell you, I'm so glad that I did. Well, that was a magnificent evisceration of the New England Patriots.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was vomiting and or asleep for the first half. I did make it awake in time for Bad Bunny, which I really enjoyed.

[Sean Fennessy]

I did, too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then kind of watched the second half, but it was pretty boring. And sort of tuned into the commercials, found they were mostly about AI, turned them off, and then watched the trailers the next day in the comfort of my own laptop.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, okay, one quick thing about Bad Bunny that I appreciated that other people have noted, but I thought was very smart on his part because there obviously was gonna be somewhat of a lack of familiarity among some people in the audience with his music. And there's been all kinds of, like, bizarre controversy conversation around it. Yeah, but I don't wanna talk about that. But I loved the sort of like production style presentation of that show. And it's very rare that at a halftime show you get basically a mini movie. And that was what Bad Bunny attempted to create. So I really love that. And that was really in keeping with, I think, a lot of what was going on. Most of the commercials I thought were borderline evil. Absolutely. During the telecast. The trailers, I thought were pretty interesting and pretty fun. And I felt like last year we didn't have such a good batch. The year before that we didn't have such a good batch. This year there was one big surprise which I had gotten tipped off to. I don't know if you had gotten tipped off to the big news, which was that there was a trailer for or a sort of a teaser for the Adventures of Cliff Booth or so we think that's the name of the movie. But there was a one minute spot for the new movie written by Quentin Tarantino, directed by David Fincher, that did not feature the title of the movie. That felt like it was essentially a fake 1970s exploitation style reel for the film. What did you think of it?

[Amanda Dobbins]

And also a little bit of a gag reel. So it was a trailer for a Netflix film shown during the super bowl, directed by David Fincher and written by Quentin Tarantino. So there are a lot of things, like not suitable for general audiences. Quote Unquote. So they use bleeps in a very funny way.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, Like a visual bleep, a scratched.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Out image, and use them at scale so purposefully to kind of tease you with like, oh, there's a lot of naughty stuff in this. And that was a major bit. And part of the trailer, which I thought was funny, I thought was effective in terms of communicating, like a vibe of the movie and maybe piquing some interest without really telling us anything about what's going on in it, other than that people are cursing. And it does look somewhat 70s esque.

[Sean Fennessy]

It looks like a dingy, beautiful 70s exploitation movie, which is kind of what I hope it turns out to be. Obviously, Fincher's visual style is different from Tarantino's, and. And it looked extremely Fincher to me. And obviously he's shooting on digital, but he's like the only director alive who makes digital look like that. And I'd love to see a more high def version. It's interesting. It hasn't been officially released. Like, it just aired. People ripped it off their TVs. But if you go to Netflix's YouTube channel, for example, it's not available there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, but I think we know why. Because Netflix does not want to give one single minute of content to YouTube that it does, you know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, yeah, but they do promote their movies with trailers. Like, there's something else going on here that it's a serpentine secret campaign that they're trying to do, which I think is smart. And I think withholding the title of the movie is interesting, the use of the Peter Gunn theme. The other thing that it reminded me of a little bit is the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo teaser, which was set to Karano's version of Immigrant Song, which was basically the Fincher style, which is just flashes of images and no story. You could not really ascertain what this movie is going to be. You can just get the vibe, like you said. You can just kind of feel that it's going to be kind of a rollicking, fun movie. Like a. Basically, it looks like a buddy comedy where. And I don't know who the other buddy is, but it's going to be Brad Pitt. And maybe it's Elizabeth Debicki, maybe it's Yahya Abdul Mateen. You know, maybe it's all people I like. Yeah, I mean, the cast looks. Maybe it's Carla Gugino, God bless her, walking out onto the veranda wearing a bikini. We love to see it. That's one of the best things I'VE seen all year. Holt McCallany apparently is in this movie. I didn't know. Longtime Fincher collaborator Karen Kerguelen from Anora and the Sean Baker films is in the film. Scott Kahn, who I'm sure will say fuck you roughly 40 times in the movie. I don't know. I haven't read the script. I don't want to read the script. I kind of want this to be the last thing I see of this movie, but I don't know if I'll be able to control myself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, this is an issue with all of the rest of the trailers that we're going to talk about, which is. We're going to. We are watching them because the marketing and the trailer is such an important part of getting people into the theater. But also we're gonna go anyway. So I really don't want stuff to be spoiled.

[Sean Fennessy]

I know. I know. I definitely put on my analysis cap. Like, just seeing. There's a moment where a car comes around the corner of the Paramount lot and up in the lot are three posters, which is still how the Paramount lot looks these days. And the three posters for the three films from 1977 are looking for Mr. Goodbar, Black Sunday, and what looks like First Love, A movie I have not seen. But some X.com sleuths discovered that it was sort of, like, out of view. And so I do hope that, like, the sort of the essence of Hollywood is very much a part of this movie, too. At that time, we see a movie theater at a certain point that looked like the vista to me. It looked like the Vista was dressed in some way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's the Vista and not the Highland Park Theater because they were filming there.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think the Highland Park Theater is the exteriors, and I think the interior was. Because it had. The Vista has the three separate sections where it has that primary middle section and two aisles down the end and has, like, I don't know, 400 seats. And it looked like a really big room. But I don't know. Okay, I'm pretty excited about this big Kahuna burger on the. Slathered on that wall, you know, like, this isn't the Tarantino verse. Clearly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm looking forward to this. And I am. I'm not participating in the take cycles, you know, like, when this was announced, there was a lot of hand wringing of, like, what are we gonna do? And, like, you know, why are greatest minds, you know, committing to sequels on streaming services and blah, blah. I don't care. It's a movie written by Quentin Tarantino and David Fincher. I accept. And then, you know, then there's a lot of hand wringing of like, is this gonna be good enough? Is that looks great. I'm gonna have a great time.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Neither you nor I have had as hard of a time with this era of David Fincher. I think there are some people who can't get away from being 13 and how they feel about seven and fight club anymore. Honestly, the movie that this looks most like to me is Fight Club. Like in terms of the tone, the energy, the. The kind of like visual dynamism, the sort of like that puckish, punkish kind of rude quality which I really enjoy. So hopefully, I don't know if it's going to be Fight Club, but I hope it lives up in some way. Okay. Disclosure day. Yeah, this one was very brief and it was essentially also a one minute teaser trailer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What is the rate for commercials on the Super bowl in 2026? Do we know?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. There was, there was some discussion about this on the town last week on an episode about around ad buys and they were in the 5 to 10 million discussion range according to USA Today.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Because I don't trust the AI results. Even though they paid for all of the commercials. We're at about 8 million for a 30 second spot.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that was essentially the discussion. I think it depends on how early you make the buy. Okay, so, okay, maybe this was an $11 million commercial.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You think you're getting a discount for the 60 second buy?

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, I think that the movie studios know that they need to buy early.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And so the earlier you get in, the cheaper it is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And this, well, this was also. The super bowl was on NBC this year, which was confusing to me.

[Sean Fennessy]

Why?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it's just not what I associate with the Super Bowl.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was awesome though. It was Tirico and Collinsworth who are the best.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I love Tarico and Collinsworth are the best. It's great. And then it segued right into the Olympics. So I did not have to get up in my diseased state to change the channel. We just segued right into the Olympics. I did get up. I didn't wanna watch the Lindsey Vaughn crash. Thank you. No, thank you.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't watch that either. You know what I loved is when Drake May threw that interception into God knows where and Chris Collinsworth take on that was. Yeah, I don't really, I don't have any thoughts on that. It was just like it was so bad that he was completely Stumped for commentary. That was a wonderful moment.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But so it's me, C. Which is Comcast owned. And also Universal is Comcast owned. Are they getting a discount?

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, good point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, this isn't the last of the Universal releases that was promoting their movie. Disclosure day. They're hiding the ball. This was a very short trailer. It was somewhat similar to what we saw previously. There's one incredible set piece clearly where a car gets trapped underneath a train. That is like an old school Spielberg style action set piece. That got me excited. But everything else is basically like, we're not really going to tell you the premise. And you will see something moving through a cloud that appears to be a UFO at the conclusion of the trailer. Another thing where I'm like, I really want to know everything about this movie immediately, but I'd like to know nothing as well. And that's like, I guess that's an effective trailer, right? Like, that's really what you're trying to accomplish.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There's a moment in the trailer where you see one side of a woman's face and forgive me, I don't know the actress's face, and then the camera moves and then the other side is Emily Blunt.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And. But I again, was not at, like, peak physical powers, so I didn't know why.

[Sean Fennessy]

So where are you at on shape shifting? Is that a power you would want to have if you were a mutant?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I think invisibility.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay. That's a. Crying getting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Getting somewhere instantly.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, yeah. Teleportation.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Mind reading, mind control.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Look at you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, like a lot of these.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are all also famously very feminine powers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, well, that's fine. The Invisible Woman. Every day I'm here, Jean Grey's mind.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Control here, having it all and reimagining what is possible for superheroes and women in the world.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, mystique is also a shape.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, she's the blue one.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Jennifer Lawrence, but I'm not really interested in that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Why not?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just. I don't know, it seems like a lot of hassle.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, for what do you feel you're not really. That's actually not one of your skills. We were talking about this on Saturday night, but you're not. You can't really fake it, you know, you are yourself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Part of being a shapeshifter is about performance. This is an underrated aspect of shapeshifting. It's not just how you look. You can change your voice, of course, but what is the sort of tonality and experience the personality change once you've shifted shape? And you can't do that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, but my superpower lies in the opposite. You know, I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I am just myself.

[Sean Fennessy]

Being a demagogue.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. It's just like it is what it is and I will try to, you know, so then I need to be able to like teleport or be invisible so I can take that power wherever it needs to go myself.

[Sean Fennessy]

Your flavor of alien. You like like a little green man? Do you like like a tall kind of robotic invader? Do you. Do you like someone that comes as a humanoid style?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, that's. That's creepy. And then it brings up too much like robot, like whatever stuff which I'm not interested in. Much like Jacob Elordi. I'd rather just be on a beach reading a novel. Sunburnt. One of the great quotes of our time. Let's see.

[Sean Fennessy]

This is really Jacob Elordi week for you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh yeah, it's true. No, I mean, I like the arrival aliens. You know, something like sculptural and beautiful. Let's, you know, bring some artistry to our, to our mind. I'm not looking for gross out. Okay. I guess as long as you're going for some sort of like something spiritual, some sort of like, let's open our consciousness to the world outside this world. Okay, if you're trying to scare me, then whatever. Gross. Gross. Aliens.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like an alien that can kind of alter the shape of reality, you know, like in contact. When Jodie Foster gets to the. Wherever she goes to and she's sort of like she's experiencing an alien exploration of spirituality, but like it's not represented in some corporeal form. It's like it is the great mysticism I like when they're like, this alien race has advanced 10 million years beyond human form. Their understanding of science and technology and power has far eclipsed. And that. Right, that doesn't just impact weapons, it impacts philosophy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Pretty Earth centric understanding of aliens. You know how so well that it's like they, they've out, you know, they've outstripped humans. But like, who says they're competing with humans? They're living in their own world by their own science, by their own spirituality, by their own laws of physicality, of.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're right about evolution. You're right about that. However, these stories are often about these races coming to Earth either to annihilate humans or to take a resource from Them or to learn something else from them. Usually in our sort of solipsistic society, it's stories about how we still contain, as humans, a kind of emotional power that an alien race couldn't possibly understand.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's why I like Arrival, because the aliens just. They understand something that we don't, and they come to teach us about it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm glad you like Arrival. That's nice for you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's really good. Didn't make 25 for 25, but I think it's the best.

[Sean Fennessy]

Villanuev, we disagree. Speaking of aliens.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Project Hail Mary.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Didn't watch it. Will not watch any more about this. Show me the movie. There we go. Show me the movie. Thank you.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, that was your Regina King slash Rod Tidwell moment there. Yeah. I started to watch it and I turned it off because I was like, I'm good. I'm already sold.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm at, like, a year into the hype machine for this. I'm ready. I'm excited. I will be there.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't want to drive across town to sit in the Amazon theater personally. But, like, I will.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that's what you'll have to do.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I know, and that's really tough for me. I just hope that they don't, like, put, you know, the watermark on it after I drive all the way.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't think that'll be the case.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That happened once to someone in my family.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I don't think that will happen. I was there recently. I saw a film there. I saw crime 101 there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a nice screen, nice theater, but it is very far from my house. Project Hamari sounds great. It's coming out in six weeks. And is it really six weeks? I think it's March 20th. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, so it's the week after the Oscars. So it's five weeks to the Oscars and six weeks to.

[Sean Fennessy]

You got this, mama. Hang in there, mama.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Time was so fast and so slowly all at once.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What are we going to. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I look at my child and I'm like, this is now starting to go way too fast. And I look at the Oscar race, and I'm like, please, can we please get on with this? Minions and Monsters. Many people have been wondering how you're feeling about this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Just like, electric. Okay. As you wrote in this, I love monsters. And as I wrote in my head, I love a movie about making a movie with your powers combined. I'd look so funny. Knox is going to lose his mind. I can't wait to show.

[Sean Fennessy]

It looks pretty fun.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Also, I know many people have been waiting for me to speak on the Minions figure skater.

[Sean Fennessy]

Not familiar with this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So there was a Spanish figure skater who had a Minions themed routine, and he dressed as a minion, and I believe he danced to music adapted from.

[Sean Fennessy]

The score of now that sounds like NBC payola.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, so here's the thing, is that the controversy was that none of it was cleared. And so, like, a week before the Olympics, there was, like, legal and apparently, like, the world of figure skating is like the wild world of fair use. All sorts of. There are often a lot of problems.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So. But there was concern that he was not going to be able to skate his Minions routine. But of course, this was like two days before the Olympics, so how was he going to come up with a whole new routine, let alone a new costume? And then I do believe it was cleared. So my theory is that this actually was, you know, like a deep NBC promotion, because obviously this is universal, which, honestly. Well done.

[Sean Fennessy]

How was the routine?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Good job. I have not yet seen it, okay? I fell asleep. If it aired Sunday night, I didn't get to see it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Are we at peak Minion, though? Like, are we good on this even if the movie's good, or is there going to be a downturn?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why I feel this is great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Everything dies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're freed from the shackle of Gruff. You know, they've got a new little guy, and he's not an alien, but I thought he was funny.

[Sean Fennessy]

The little green kind of gelatinous.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then the other Minion be like, he's a baby. He's so small.

[Sean Fennessy]

You gotta do the Minions episode in Minions voice for two hours.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But I'm in a really good. I mean, I'll have to, like, learn more languages because, you know, they are. They're multilingual, but they are also at the same time, kind of at like psy's level of language right now, which he just. Bibi, baby.

[Sean Fennessy]

So how old are the Minions?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think they live forever.

[Sean Fennessy]

Eternal. Yeah, they are eternal. The Mandalorian and Grogu. Now, I listened with interest as our dear friend Chris Ryan crashed out about this, which was very funny on the watch in which he proclaimed that he was not happy about this commercial and he is out on this movie and will not be seeing it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, unfortunately, he has to take my son. Did you hear how Knox greeted Chris at his birthday party?

[Chris Applehans]

No.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So another friend of ours gave Knox a Lego.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, Knox showed me. Yes, he called. He tracked me down and said, I need to show you something.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Can I. Can we just. So it was a. Do you remember what it was? It was like a Mandalorian ship.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's what it was. He asked me if the helmet comes off.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So here's like a Star wars mommy report for everyone at home. These kits are satanic. Do you know how small the pieces are?

[Sean Fennessy]

First of all, do you know how.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Quickly we lost one of these pieces? Why is the Mandalorian's tiny sword in five pieces? How am I supposed to put that together with a four year old and there's a one year old coming all.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, let's walk this back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Help us out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let's walk this.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Help us out.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let's walk this back. First of all, I asked you specifically if I could get Knox a Mandalorian and Grogu LEGO set, and you said no. You were like, I have a small child who's gonna eat all the Legos. So I didn't get him a LEGO set. And then as soon as he showed me the LEGO set, I was infuriated. I was like, why was this message not broadcast more widely? Because I wanted to be the person who could give this to your son. But of course, I agree. This is a good learning time. This is a good learning time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The problem is that the pieces are so small that they just. They disappear even before they came out.

[Sean Fennessy]

You need to get little bins that they all go in. I can show you what we use because we have a lot of LEGO stuff.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, I'm happy for you that you have a single, calm, respectful, organized child. I have two Sonic the Hedgehogs. There is no way that I can get these tiny pieces from the little packages to the bin. Anyway, he loved it. He was proud to show you. He was proud to show Chris. He ran up to Chris and he just said, does this guy, meaning the Mandalorian, have a face? Which I thought was a great question.

[Sean Fennessy]

He was very interested in the helmet technology. We did not see the Mandalorian's face in this commercial, which was a 30 second spoof of the Clydesdale Budweiser commercials where Sam Elliott was narrating about the essential nature of being in the snow or whatever. And what we saw was Hoth, I think. I think they were on Hoth because they were being dragged by tauntauns, you may recall Tauntauns from the Empire Strikes Back.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Where Luke is riding one yet. And then the snow monster gets him. And that. Do you remember this at all? They have to hide inside the tauntaun to stay warm.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Vaguely.

[Sean Fennessy]

But then remade in the Revenant.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm more up to date on Star A New Hope and also Grogu content.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, well, you got to get up on Empire Strikes Back with Grogu peeking.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Up over the table in the other trailer, because that. It just is hugely popular at our house. We talk about it a lot.

[Sean Fennessy]

The. This. We're. We're three months away from this. The first new Star wars movie in seven months. In seven years.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

And we're just doing beer commercials. It's kind of weird. Like, it does feel like there's a kind of flat anticipation for this. And this used to be the most anticipated popular culture thing. I mean, when the prequels were coming around, that obviously was absolute pandemonium. Even the reissue of the original films before the prequels. I was just talking to Mallory Rubin about this yesterday about how exciting that was to go back to see the reissued versions of those films. Obviously, the Force Awakens remains one of the biggest movies of the last 50 years, and the anticipation for that movie was huge. Even the Rise of Skywalker, which was such a dud, people were still like, I really want to see how they wrap this up.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It doesn't really even feel like this movie is happening. And there's something so strange about that.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do you think they've given up on adults?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. And I'll be honest. I don't have a problem with that. I think one of the reasons why Star wars lost its way a little bit is it got a little too adult. And I think that revisiting these movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As I counterpoint andor which I haven't seen yet. I'm gonna watch it. I gotta watch some other things.

[Sean Fennessy]

Right? But Andor is for us. Right. Andor is for adults. Andor is not for kids. Maybe some kids are watching it and enjoying it and learning about how resistance is crushed in fascist societies. But for the most part, that was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You can also learn that from Wicked.

[Sean Fennessy]

So you could learn it in the original Star wars movies, too. Honestly, it's in the text of it, but not as overtly. This is a movie purely for kids, and I think that's a good thing. I just think, like, what it is, which is an extension of a TV show, just feels small. And Star wars should be big. And I've been watching these movies. We watched Revenge of the Sith on on Saturday. Great experience with Alice. These movies are big, man. And even if you think that they're lacking in Story or performance style or you don't like the Lucas movies because he doesn't know how to direct actors or whatever. They're fucking events. They are cultural events. And this is not an event.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Star wars, the new Star wars movie. Having a Budweiser commercial, 30 second spoof in the super bowl is not a metaphor, but like a tidy summary in the ways of which not just Star wars, but Disney as a whole have, you know, gone from one of the great imagineering creative fonts of the world to, you know, just another place to take your kids to spend $300. Which is what I will do when this movie comes out. So, yeah, I mean, obviously, creatively, artistically, cinematically, it's a disgrace. I watched it and I was like, well, Knox will probably like that. Yeah. So it's kind of the exact same way. I'm with it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I feel the exact same way. My. My kid is going to love this movie and that's probably enough. But it just. It dawns on me as being the most significant pop. Pop culture thing in my life as a person at 43 years old.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Two things can be true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, you're right. Supergirl.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Forgot to Google this one.

[Sean Fennessy]

Little worried about this. Yeah, well, I. This kind of looks like an old version of what superhero movies used to be, where it's like a lot of kind of jokey winky conversations in rooms followed by a lot of big set pieces with like, explosions and like, you know, one person with powers blowing everything up around them. I thought we were done with that era of superhero movies. It could be more than that. I think Millie Alcock's very, very charming and could be great as Supergirl, but I don't know. It did dawn on me while watching this that when this movie comes out, which is on June 26, it will have been 11 months since the last superhero movie was even released, the Fantastic Four. And that's got to be the longest.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Stretch of time we've had since 2008, since Iron man or even.

[Sean Fennessy]

Gosh, I mean, even then.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Did that machine move as.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know. I'm sure someone. And I think even during COVID right, we had. In 2020. Did we have Black Widow in 2020 or was it in 2021?

[Amanda Dobbins]

2021.

[Sean Fennessy]

2021. Are you sure?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just googled it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, so maybe that's what it was. Maybe it was. Maybe it was. Was it Spider man after Endgame and then a long period of time? I mean, there might. But was there a DC movie that came out in 2020, there was Birds of Prey. So what was the distance between Birds of Prey and Black Widow?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let's see. Birds of Prey. I remember seeing this movie. She roller skates. So that was February 7, 2020.

[Sean Fennessy]

And when was Black Widow?

[Amanda Dobbins]

July 2021.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay, maybe. So that probably was the longest stretch. You know, I'm quibbling at this point.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But when did they release the Snyder cut?

[Chris Applehans]

Aha.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Let's see. March 18, 2021.

[Sean Fennessy]

So that's 13 months. Were there any other superhero movies in 2020? That's a really good question. Probably not anything from Marvel or dc.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Anyway, I just remember the Snyder cut because I remember being in lockdown in my home watching four hours of that.

[Sean Fennessy]

When was the New Mutants released? That's the one.

[Amanda Dobbins]

What is the New Mutants?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The New Mutants. This is fun.

[Sean Fennessy]

The New mutants was released August 28, 2020.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Wow.

[Sean Fennessy]

So the New Mutants is a spin off of the X Men about young mutants. This is a really massively failed movie that apparently was reshot and recut several times. It does star Anya Taylor Joy as Ileana Rasputin.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

The mutant known as Magic.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Relation to the other Rasputin?

[Sean Fennessy]

To Rasputin of Russian history.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, well, I don't think someone did their homework did.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think there's an insinuation there, you know, that she conjures a similar power.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Now clicked on. So apparently her name is Magic with.

[Sean Fennessy]

A K. Yes, that I know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. So I'm on Wikipedia here. Okay. And she's the younger sister of Russian X Men member Colossus.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, that I knew.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And X Men enemy Mikhail Rasputin, who is. I'm clicking through him. He was a cosmonaut. My son would be so excited, but it doesn't seem like he is related to the Rasputin of Russian history. I'm scrolling, but I'm not seeing anything. Okay, well, it seems like a missed opportunity or perhaps a sequel.

[Sean Fennessy]

So 11 months is the longest period of time probably since 2008 and maybe even before that. Okay, and that's just interesting. That's just in 2019 and 2020, we did a lot of episodes about comic book movies, and some of it was in the lead up to Infinity War and Endgame and kind of looking at this accomplishment that the MCU made, and some of it was just about what I find to be most interesting about it, which is trends in storytelling, what big groups of people are really interested in over a period of time, taking this long a period of time between Movies. Some of it is circumstantial. New leadership at dc, for example, resetting the table for the Marvel movies. And some of it is just about what people want, and they don't want these movies as much, and so we're getting fewer of them, and they're going to try to reset the table big time. You know, there's going to be a second Superman movie. There's going to be the Batman 2. There's going to be another Spider man movie this summer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I briefly stopped listening.

[Sean Fennessy]

Avengers.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So they're making. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They're going to keep going, but it's different.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's just interesting that they stopped.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I haven't lost any sleep at night. I mean, I have, but for different reasons. No, no, it's. It's. It's a good point. It's factual. I feel a little bit freer.

[Sean Fennessy]

Sure.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't watch the trailer for Supergirl because I didn't like the first one, and then I forgot. So that is maybe an indication of where it is in my consciousness.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I just think something else is filling its spot. And I'm not sure how much you care about that either, you know?

[Amanda Dobbins]

You mean video games?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, that's true. But listen, I. You know, men and. And men. People who like screens. That's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Women.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Women need to have their pursuits as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

You don't know any women who play video games?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, I do. I know Mallory. She plays them, Right? Sure does. Joanna?

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't think I know anybody else in my civilian life who plays video games. Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

You might want to expand your pool a little bit. Did you watch the Goodwill Duncan commercial?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did. Yeah. That was really tough. And listen, you know that everywhere I go, I ride for my guy, Ben Affleck, including getting his finances topped up by Dunkin Donuts every year. It's a. It's an annual tradition. This. This was tough. It was really tough when Jennifer Aniston and Tom Brady showed up in the window. And I know that Ben Affleck is from Boston and that Tom Brady is still welcome there, even though apparently he would not support the Patriots.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, well, there's a lot going on there. Let's. Would you like me to explain it to you?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, Warwee could just say it's none of our business and move on.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't think it's so private.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay, go ahead.

[Sean Fennessy]

I mean, he was discarded by the team and moved on to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Went on to win a Super bowl with them. Needed to show the world that it was not the Patriot way that led him to great success. It was individual success. That was compounded by the fact that he is a part owner of the Raiders, the Las Vegas Raiders, and that the Raiders had just hired Clint Kubiak, who was the offensive coordinator of the Seattle Seahawks. And so I think, in a way, he was rooting for Clint Kubiak in the Super Bowl. So he didn't want to have any elusive.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And none of that is in conflict with his role as a commentator on, you know.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, it's not something I would do, but, you know, that's how Tom Brady chooses to live his life. In conflict.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why did everyone have to wear such.

[Sean Fennessy]

Ugly wigs in the commercial? I would have preferred less A.I. d. Aging.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, for Ted Danson in particular, I found that to be a bit chilling. I. You know, I. I'm not opposed to people getting money. I. I think that's actually a smart to just, like, siphon that money out of a company.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I do think that Ben Affleck has done the work for Dunkin Donuts over the years, and he has done the work for us in. As a. As a target of the paparazzi, as, like, the. The king of memes.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. So this wasn't a ring camera commercial. It was for something that he actually consumes every day.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Which I respect. You know, between the, like, nostalgia baiting and the AI and the general, like, grotesquery of the imagery in the commercial. Could have done without it. Could have done without it.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's also Good Will Hunting is a Mad End Ben thing. So I was a little bit like this makes me a little sad that just, you know, only one of you is here making the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alfonso Ribeiro and Jaleel White could make it. Jennifer Aniston could make it. And yet Matt Damon could not.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. Well, it's just also, like, maybe Matt Damon didn't need the check, you know, so it's interesting. It's been casting.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's spending those Odyssey dollars.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So must be nice.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It didn't feel good, but that's okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. You're being so rude about Marvel and superhero, and then your beloved boy, Ben Affleck, just degrades himself during his time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't say that it was good.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, it wasn't good. I love Ben, too. Okay, shall we pivot to our Saturday evening? Okay. Shout out to the Director's Guild. They've been inviting us to the show for a few years now, and I appreciate the invite and We've never gone because I'm not that fun and I don't want to do stuff. And I don't remember if we had really seriously talked about going in the past, but I had always wanted to go, despite my unfun ness. Because this is an untelevised award show that is always a little bit more interesting because you get a little bit of a looser crowd, a little bit of a looser energy at the show. And obviously we love filmmakers, and filmmakers are a bedrock of this show and kind of the lens through which we see a lot of the movies that we talk about.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

And this is a great year.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I was gonna say this is for our filmmakers. It was many of our people.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And something I did not know about the DGA awards ceremony until we arrived, but that really played to our interest is that all of the nominees for best feature film. So in this case, that was Paul Thomas Anderson, Guillermo del Toro, Chloe Zhao, Josh Safdie, and Ryan Coogler give speeches before the winner is announced. Instead of doing the like, you know, weird person associated with the movie coming out to present like a clip package.

[Sean Fennessy]

Of which they did have.

[Amanda Dobbins]

They did. But, you know, normally it's like a searing work on the power of connection. This is Hammond, you know, and then you just like watch whatever. They have the actual filmmakers speak, and they also have someone from the film.

[Sean Fennessy]

Come and present a medallion.

[Amanda Dobbins]

A medallion to them and do it like an extended introduction. And there's no time limit because it's not televised. So it is. It's our guys and our gal and very focused on them. And they actually get a lot of stage time, if not screen time. So that was very, very cool. It was really interesting and made sense for us to be there. The other thing was that it's held at the Beverly Hilton, which is also where the Golden Globes are held every year. So that was just some good location scouting for yours truly.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it gives a little bit of insight into what that show might be like too, and the ways in which it is similar and different and what you just described. I think that's the centerpiece of the show. The best theatrical feature film is the primary award, and the show is sort of oriented around that order. But there are a lot of other awards that are given out. There are limited series, TV series, TV comedy, variety and talk show. There are commercial awards that are given out. There's a first time feature filmmaker award that is given out. So it is a proper award show where going through the night, you have someone Coming out and presenting the nominees and then giving out an award. And people go up and they give acceptance speeches. You've also got a host. We had a, we had a host. Kumil Nanjiani was the host. And I thought it was really, really funny.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I laughed a lot.

[Sean Fennessy]

So Judd Apatow has been hosting this show for the last few years. And we had been warned ahead of time by a few people that this is a really long award show, that it like could run three and a half, four, four and a half, maybe even five hours.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was a real rollercoaster because at first we learned, oh, the awards, you know, drinks start at 5, the awards kick off at 6:30. I was like, oh, great. Like we'll be, we'll be done early. And then everyone was like, no, no, no, no, it might go till 11. And then I was like, oh, have I signed my whole life away to the DGAs? Do I live at the Beverly Hilton now? But in this particular case, the show ran on time.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was really crisp. Kumail did a really nice job in the monologue. He was legitimately very funny. And all the jokes were written to a director's audience. And that's the thing, the at this show is there's some press. We sat with some press. You know, our friends Josh Rothkoff from the LA Times and Kyle Buchanan from the New York Times were seated at our table. But also seated at our table were Jason Chalemmy and Mike Sweeney, who were from the Conan o' Brien travel show, which is on HBO Max. And they were nominated that night. And that's kind of the composition of most of the tables is folks who work on shows like that who are nominees or who are guests of the nominees. And lo and behold, Mike won in his category.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was so exciting.

[Sean Fennessy]

So we watched. And if you are a longtime Conan o' Brien fan and have been watching since he was doing Late night in the 90s, Mike is kind of an icon. He's been on the show a long time. He's been. Both of those guys have been with Conan for decades. And so as he has moved on to become a podcast host and to be making these streaming shows in the aftermath of his talk show, that same crew of people are all still together. So just to watch Mike go on stage, just a very funny guy. And you can tell he gave probably the funniest speech of the night, I would say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Absolutely. Because the comedy, the category was variety, reality and quiz show all at once. And so he gave a very self deprecating speech about this being the most important category of the night. But don't be nervous. But it was very charming off the cuff. Um, they were lovely table mates.

[Sean Fennessy]

Super nice. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it was very exciting. They won. And then we were like tasked with keeping the applause going, you know. Yeah, yeah, it was, but. But it is also like. It is a bit of a walk which you under. You know, would you see it?

[Sean Fennessy]

But then, yeah, we didn't have the best seats in the house, so Mike had to strive.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, we had a good view, but we were not up in front. That's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So, yeah, delightful.

[Sean Fennessy]

Very exciting. That part of it was really cool. And I think that speaks to really the composition of the Guild. And there was a lot of conversation throughout the night about what the Guild is. And the Guild is not just Ryan Coogler and Paul Thomas Anderson. It's a lot of people who work as assistant directors or second assistant directors that comprise this kind of organism of movie making that doesn't get as much attention or clarity. I don't have first ads on the show because there's this primacy of authorship around the lead filmmaker. But these directors depend on these people so much to make the movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just remembered the Kumail joke. That was Michael B. He was explaining the difference between Michael B. Jordan and Michael Jordan. And then Scottie Pippen. And Scottie B. Pippen. B. Pippen. And then he explained Scottie Pippen as the. As the ad of any. Yeah. And it's. It was. It. It was gentle poking.

[Sean Fennessy]

The joke was essentially that he does more or less the same amount of work for significantly less credit. Yeah. And money. And that was kind of a theme of the night, was sort of like a lot of these big time filmmakers honoring the groups of people who work on their directing teams. And that the award is not just for the filmmaker, but for the entire team who worked on the film. And that's, I think, really useful to understand.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And.

[Sean Fennessy]

Most of the big noisy award shows, the Oscars is different in this respect. But most of the big noisy award shows are only spotlighting above the line talent. That's really all they're thinking about. Forget about. And then there's like below the line talent, like superstar below the line talent. Like there's like the Ludwig Goransons where you're like, this guy's going to win like six Academy Awards and he's like one of the most acclaimed composers in. In the world. And he's like in his 40s. But then there's like the person below the person and the Person below that person. And so I appreciated that the show took some time to talk about those people and talk about the work that they do. When you were walking in the room, I'm curious, like, what were you looking for? How would you describe the vibe of the show and party itself?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I felt like we were the plus ones at a large wedding. Um, like in a good way. And I enjoy being a non essential guest at a wedding. It's kind of an ideal assignment.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So as, as you know, we weren't, we weren't in the front row. We weren't next to Leonardo DiCaprio, who was there.

[Sean Fennessy]

He was there.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Um, but we had a great view. We could see everyone coming and going. And it was, you know, it's seated tables. The DJs serve Josh wine, in case anyone's wondering.

[Sean Fennessy]

Chardonnay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Chardonnay and Pinot Noir.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, sure. California all the way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. And there's, you know, a served meal that you're trying to get through before the speeches start, just like a wedding. And then for the most part, you're watching people, some of whom you recognize, some of whom you don't talk about, very meaningful moments in their lives while you do or don't drink the wine. So it did feel. It was like watching an award show at a wedding instead of watching an award show at your home.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, that's a funny way of putting it. Cause it is. It's a seated dinner from 5:30 to 6:30, and then the show starts, then the food comes off the table. If you want to keep drinking, you can. You don't have to. I would not describe this as like a very boozy affair.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

Didn't feel like the old Globes, you know, where it was just like everyone's kind of. They've had their third martini for some reason. This was like. It wasn't staid and it wasn't boring. You know, like, I. Obviously this is. I'm in the bag for a show like this, but I think just any common person could have sat down and been kind of relatively entertained by what they saw.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, it was very produced and very professionally done. And so, you know, Kumail hosted and had a, like a very. I think that monologue would have played well on tv. I mean, he's obviously like a professional comedian and very good at what he does. But the show ran as if it were being staged for television. It was just being staged for us in the room, so you could just. You were entertained for the most part. And there were moments when we were looking at our phones or posting or trying to take pictures of our, like, place cards.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. They were very kind to provide us with a little, tiny golden director's chair, which we then both gave to our children. Yeah. How closely were you paying attention to the way in which the nominees and various people were being received? The applause, the love for movies in the room, because this is something you hear about a lot at a lot of these events is sort of like this can dictate what's gonna happen at the events that are to come at the Academy Awards, for example.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I wrote down who got a standing ovation until I realized that every single theatrical feature film director was getting a standing ovation. And they all deserve it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yep.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So it was. It was one where you would note the enthusiasm and applause for one person, be like, oh, look, got. Got a lot of people in the room. And then that seemed pretty equally dispersed. So. And in the end, it just seemed like a real. It does seem like this is a group of nominees that everyone likes, and.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think they like each other as well.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

There does not seem to be much animosity amongst this group. This doesn't seem to be like a very sharp elbowed fight. There's this curiosity of both Sinners and one battle after another, which are, of course, the two frontrunners right now being from the same studio, too. And so I wonder if there's like, a slightly more of a play nice circumstance going on, not between the filmmakers, obviously, but just like the awards machine that is operating around those movies. I did think there was a little bit more energy for both Sinners and Hamnet than there was for the other films. And that might just be because there was, like, a more vocal contingent of people in the room, but it did seem a little bit louder for both of those.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, there is also the fact that Hamnet was introduced instead of by one of its stars, by Steven Spielberg, and that Steven Spielberg was at the Hamnet.

[Sean Fennessy]

Table and he kind of loomed over his aura, kind of loomed over the event.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Steven Spielberg was the star of the night.

[Sean Fennessy]

He was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And almost everyone, including Kumail, in what I thought was a wonderful anecdote about seeing Jurassic park for the first time in Pakistan, where he grew up, everyone referenced Spielberg and almost talked to him. Like, at some point during their speech.

[Sean Fennessy]

They looked right at him and addressed him. Or basically like, thank you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it was sort of like the one Meryl Streep used to sit front row at the Oscars, and everyone was like, oh, there's Meryl Streep. But they were called, oh, it's Steven Spielberg. And then that became a self fulfilling prophecy also of like now it came one of the bits of the night in a good way. These are people who pick up on cues and know how to tell a story throughout the night. So Spielberg came so central to the night that Hamnet by association just kind of gets lifted up in it. But yeah, I think that there was a sinners definitely. I noted that as well that people were very excited anytime any like it was mentioned. Coogler gave a wonderful speech.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, let's go through those one by one. I think that's kind of interesting for folks listening at home. I think I have the order. Do I have the order right here, the way I've written it down.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that maybe Chalamet and Josh Safdie went before Chloe Zhao. But I could be wrong. You took the program home. I forgot mine and I left it at home.

[Sean Fennessy]

Leonardo DiCaprio came out pretty early on in the show. He did and introduced one battle after another in Paul Thomas Anderson. And you know, all of these presenters who were presenting the nominee who would then give that speech that you were describing. You know, they all had prepared remarks. Some were reading off of a prompt or some were reading off of a, you know, a card that they had in their hand. I would say, you know, perhaps unsurprisingly, Leo very crisply and cleanly gave his speech. He knows how to read lines. And his was really good. It was really interesting. I did tweet about him talking about Paul coming to his mom's house in Los Feliz in the 90s, before boogie nights, I think when he was discussing possibly taking on the role of Dirk Diggler. And under one arm he said he had a laserdisc of Raging Bull. And under the other arm he had a VHS cassette of a John Holmes movie. And they were gonna watch that at Leo's house.

[Amanda Dobbins]

At Leo's mom's house.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, Leo's mom's house. Which Leo eventually didn't do that movie. I wonder if that was a factor. But then I thought he spoke warmly and smartly about what makes PTA's movies so effective and the experience of working on one battle. And then PTA also gave a very good speech. Did he quote the John Steinbeck quote in that speech or was it in the speech later in the evening about sort of the. Like John Steinbeck once said that no one has a soul. We all have a piece of a soul. And that all people together kind of share a soul. And he was like, I see my filmmaking team that way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And that goes to the point I was making about how they see their crew.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think that that was in the prepare. That was in the first. In the first speech that he gave. Because spoiler alert, if you don't read any headlines, Paul Thomas Anderson did eventually win this award. And he did give a second speech.

[Sean Fennessy]

He did.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That was also quite lovely. Yeah. So I think he did the Steinbeck quote and then. And then he thanked Maya Rudolph, who was there with him and was just talking about how everyone in the room knows that directors can be impossible to live with.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So thank you.

[Sean Fennessy]

He wasn't the only director who made that joke either. Almost all of them made the joke of just what an absolute nightmare it is to live and deal with. Also, several filmmakers had sick children at home.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, yeah, let's talk about Coogler.

[Sean Fennessy]

Let's talk about Coogler. So Michael B. Jordan also introduced Ryan Coogler and similarly gave a really great speech. And obviously there's something really nice there. There's sort of like the funhouse mirror of each other, Leo and pta, who had been rumored to work together forever and ever and ever and never did. And then they finally did and they've made this movie. Whereas MBJ and Coogler are kind of intertwined like he really is. He's not just his De Niro. He's going into another phase where they are inextricable from each other creatively. And you can kind of see Ryan writing through Michael B. Jordan's skills. And I liked how MBJ talked about how he sees something in him that he doesn't see in himself. And then Coogler came on stage and, like, once again, Coogler is like just the coolest guy in the world.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The first thing he said was that he was extra nervous because his wife Xinzi couldn't be there with him because she was at home with their son, I believe, who's ill, and he's gonna be okay. But then Coogler held up his DGA card and his insurance card, and he says. And he said something to the effect of, I've always been grateful for these, but I'm really grateful tonight. And. Which was, like, you know, meaningful. And I also had a sick child at home, so I was like, I, you know, I see you, Ryan.

[Sean Fennessy]

It was echoing in you. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I think many people could relate to that. But then he pivoted to talking about being in a union and talking about his uncle, who was a Black Panther and then became joined a part of the union, I believe the Teamsters, but I. And the revolutionary power of unions. And it was awesome. And right on. And like. And pitch to the room and also. And pitch to our moment, but not in a, like, overly didactic way. And also in keeping with the themes of Sinners. I mean, he's just. He's the best. He's so smart, he's so cool and so in tune with, you know, our world and what is going on in it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I think he's just an amazing. This is true of. Actually. I think all five of these nominees in a way where they. Not all filmmakers are like this, and I've talked to so many, but they're all really great advocates for how they see and understand movies and the way in which their worldview is imprinted onto the movies that they make. And a lot of the way that Coogler has kind of gone through the last year. Year, and it's been about a year since that first video of him kind of talking through the Kodak film and the film stock and the style that they shot Sinners on came around, which was this kind of flashpoint, I think, for 2025 at the movies. And he's just done this pretty consistently over the last year where every time there's a moment where he's on stage and he has to make a point. He's one of the only people, I think he might have been the only person on stage that night who mentioned the federal government's overreach and the way that they're invading people's lives and privacy and inflicting violence upon them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And he didn't say fuck ice, but he came pretty darn close to yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And it was. It was like the most specific reference.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. So that was really interesting. And, you know, there's just a lot of energy and passion for that movie, for obvious reasons. And I did turn to you at a certain point during the show, and I was like, I wouldn't be shocked if you won. I wouldn't be shocked. You know, there are reasons why I think PTA 1, and we can talk about them when we get into that. But I really liked what he said. After him was Jacob Elordi, who came out wearing a brown suit and a foulard tie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And he's like 7ft 9. He's like 1 of the tallest people that's ever lived. And you were just a flutter.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, you know, I was in the same room with him, and his tallness could be Communicated across that. That space.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. And I mean, he was too tall for the microphone.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Exactly. So he had to lean over. But even like the kind of loose way he was like leaning over to talking to the microphone, I was just like, you can't, you can't recreate this. It's powerful stuff. Almost anyone could use it, you know, for good. We'll talk more about those who can't later this week. But anyway, he was very charming and, and pitched the speech in like, in a, like very. In the emotional way that fits for Del Toro. And I think at the end he said like, I love you, Guillermo. I'm so happy to be in this movie. Which I think it is in keeping with the performance and also set up the tone of Del Toro's speech very nicely.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I think as a famous person, he's done a really good job in the last couple years. Elordi. Of clarifying that he's a serious actor and a cinephile and an artist and wants to be a part of good projects. Like, that's what he's most interested in. You know, some of them are hit or miss. I think he's the best thing in Frankenstein. And it was almost like paying tribute to like your beloved uncle or your father. You know, like, there was some real warmth for like, I feel lucky to have gotten to be a. Of part of a movie made by somebody who I really venerate. And so it was a nice speech and it was a different character, I think, because they don't have a long standing partnership. They haven't probably even known each other for more than a couple of years. In fact, it was supposed to be Andrew Garfield as the monster in that movie. You may recall, he came in last minute and did that part and did it so well. And then I guess we can talk about Chalamet. I can't remember who came first, Spielberg or Chalamet.

[Amanda Dobbins]

We should just say Del Toro, of course. Del Toro gave a lovely speech. He started the President Nolan of it all. Or maybe he didn't start it, but he was the one. He said he acknowledged President Nolan because Christopher Nolan is the president of the DGAs and opened the ceremony with the speech. And then he said, I really like how that sounds. It's so nice to say it. You know, say president and then have something nice come after it. Which again started another bit throughout the night.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, but wouldn't be the last time. President Nolan was right.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But he also, like, he chuckled and was. He's. He is such a warm and, and charming Presence. And then at the end, he invited everyone over to make models. Models.

[Sean Fennessy]

Model kits.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And he said, I'll make quesadillas, and you can do a model kit. And would you like to explain the.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, it's a real thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

There's a group of friends I know. Among them are J.J. abrams and James Cameron, who will go to Guillermo del Toro's home on a Sunday afternoon. And he was saying, some people watch football. We make models. And that at heart, these guys are just kids playing with their toys, you know, building things together and trying to make something that looks the way that they imagine it might look. That's the whole job, right?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And so there's something sweet about that. You know, del Toro, I don't think he's the villain of this season for us. I just think that's a movie we don't have a lot of enthusiasm for.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But it was incredible.

[Sean Fennessy]

But in general, I like his movies. And he's obviously a really nice guy. Chalamet.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I was a little surprised to see him here. Not because he's, like, bigger than this moment or anything, but he's in town.

[Amanda Dobbins]

You know, they planned it out. So he's doing. He was doing his American Cinematheque retrospective.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right. That's right. He's on the trail.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And I don't know whether he made it up to Santa Barbara or not, but the Santa Barbara Film Festival was also this weekend.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you notice the Lord? He was wearing the exact same outfit there that he wore to the dga.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did. I wondered if he went from one to the other.

[Sean Fennessy]

Was it the same day?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, it was Saturday night. I don't know. It's.

[Sean Fennessy]

I thought that was on Sunday. Anyway. No shots. I rewear outfits all the time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, also, these things are expensive. I mean, he does have several contracts.

[Sean Fennessy]

But still, I think he's gonna be okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Chalamet gave a great speech. Very funny, and really captured, I think, the energy of the Safdie movie and the New Yorkness of those movies. And he, at like, maybe two minutes into it, was getting a lot of laughs, and he was like, wow, I'm killing up here. He really was pleased with himself, but he was really funny. And I can't remember any, like, specific.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, well, I do remember moments from him. At one point, he said, just the other day, out of the Blue, Josh said to me, if you ever need an Elias, go by the name Mike dipey. And then he just. He emphasized out of the Blue, which is, you know, which is in my mind when I imagined those two chuckleheads together making this movie and then promoting it. That's, you know, that's a real, like, JFK rewatchables energy. You know, you can't recapture it. It's just like, in the room.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

People, I think, are idiots, but I also love doing things, so. That's great.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. His. His speech was very good, and he was very loose. I think in the presentation, it didn't feel as formal as some of the other.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's really in a Damien Chazelle phase of life, physically. It's the hair length and the mustache.

[Sean Fennessy]

Almost like the dirty.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, he looked great. Great stuff. But I was like, this man looks a lot like Damien Chazelle right now.

[Sean Fennessy]

He does. And may they make many films together. That's what I wish for. And then Josh came up and gave his speech, which I thought was really actually quite beautiful and very, very personal about his relationship to movies and the movies that his father gave him.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes.

[Sean Fennessy]

And he spent a lot of time talking about Kramer versus Kramer.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And so the two children of divorce sat up a little straighter.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. So very relatable story about how the movies were weaponized against his mother. And he was living with his father at the time. He talked about his father as an immigrant and that his father, who showed him and his brother Benny a lot of movies, showed him Kramer versus Kramer and literally said, that's your mom, and pointed to the Meryl Streep character. And then they went on a trip with their mother to spend some time with her and were awful to her and literally explained to her what their father had done and said, you're like the Meryl Streep character in Kramer vs. Kramer. And then he said that that went right into the file during the divorce.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Proceedings, during the custody battles.

[Sean Fennessy]

But then that helped him explain how in, you know, essential movies in life are and how intertwined they are for him and the way that he takes how he's feeling and puts them into his movies. And there would be no other way for him to do what he does. And I thought it was very affecting. And people in the room seem to really dig it, too.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, we were both. It's very close to the heart for both of us. I was just, like, wincing, you know, as the. As. As soon as Kramer versus Kramer, but, like, in the intended way, in the. In the way that Marty supreme and Uncut gems wanna make you feel like you're hanging onto the table for dear life.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes, yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which they Achieved.

[Sean Fennessy]

He got us close to that psychology. And then you mentioned Spielberg spoke on behalf of Chloe Zhao and told what I thought was a hilarious story, which is that he showed up on the set of the movie and he really adulatory towards Chloe Zhao and what he does and what she does. And I think the story illuminated the differences between them as filmmakers, which is that pun intended. He arrived on the set and he said, this is too dark. This is not lit correctly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, that's not what he said. He said he tripped over something and he said, let me know when it's lit. And he was like, and then I'll be able to find my way. And Chloe said, it is lit.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's right. And he used that as a way to illuminate, illuminated the naturalism that Chloe Zhao's films are seeking. You know, that she is really interested in our kind of intersection and union with the natural world. And the way that Jessie Buckley's character, Agnes, kind of is connected to nature and then by extension, her family and her offspring. And, you know, he was saying it in a way that was meant to complement her. And I think, in fact, he kind of like, located something about the movie that I was like, that I don't really connect with, that I don't really jive with. But it's notable to me that I think someone like him, who most people think of as a filmmaker, is like, someone who can really do anything. You know, like, he's really. Especially in these later years where he's making movies like the Fabelmans, where you're like, wow, this is even, like, emotionally confrontational in a way that his movies didn't always seem to be. But there's still things that he looks at and he's like, I don't know how to do that. And I do think that that was right. I think he advocated for that film very well. And then Chloe Zhao came up and she brought up her first ad, and I thought she also gave a really nice speech about, you know, kind of like the unknowability of process and going forward and being really interested in that material in a way. But, like, that movie is very different from everything else that she's done and kind of locating the ways in which she was able to kind of, like, try something new while also staying true to what she does. So I don't know if you had any thoughts on Chloe's speech.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I mean, she hit. She said the name William Shakespeare more than once. And also, I think, located what is the. The best part of that film. Which is its. Its conclusion. And that there can be, if, you know, life or at least some sort of connection after grief and what art can do and what they do as directors. So, you know, and that part of the film does speak to me. Even if the. The naturalism in the tree. There was a lot of forest talk.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, there was.

[Amanda Dobbins]

There was, you know, you know me in forests.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like the forest.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Where? So mountains. Forest.

[Sean Fennessy]

The lake. I like a lake.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And then down, down, down. Beach.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like the high desert. I like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Just absolute awesome.

[Sean Fennessy]

I like the frozen tundra.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. And then beaches below. All of that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Beaches. Dead last.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Insane take.

[Sean Fennessy]

Dead last.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay. Good luck to you.

[Sean Fennessy]

The ocean. I enjoy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Sure.

[Sean Fennessy]

Could we get the ocean without the sand? That's something I've been looking for.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, it's called the Mediterranean.

[Sean Fennessy]

Haven't been. Well, haven't been.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Coming soon.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maybe one day. This episode is brought to you by Walt Disney World Resort. The most magical place on earth. Imagine a world of culinary capers in Remy's Ratatouille Adventure. Or a world of mystical rivers and flying banshees in Pandora. The world of Avatar. Or a world of dazzling lights under the stars in an all new nighttime parade. Disney Starlight. Dream the night away. Well, you don't have to imagine it. You can live it. Because infinite worlds await at Walt Disney world Resort. Visit disneyworld.com to learn more and discover a world of magic this summer across all four theme parks. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com TheBigPicture Terms and Conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. You don't change the game by standing on the sidelines. You do it by building something new, iconic in the 70s and reimagined for today. The all new Scout Terra and Scout Traveler are engineered from the ground up with advanced capability and Bold ingenuity build brand new for what's next. Opposing defenses take note. Join the [e-mail] concept vehicle is not available for sale. Joining the waitlist does not guarantee purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. Any other awards that night that you want? You know, the Pit won. The SNL music concert won. What other shows won?

[Amanda Dobbins]

The studio.

[Sean Fennessy]

The studio. Yes. That was the notable moment. Thank you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And they gave a tribute to Catherine.

[Sean Fennessy]

O', Hara, Seth and Evan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Which is very nice. And then the documentary win. They had to go after the documentary.

[Sean Fennessy]

Win, which went to Madislav Chernov won for 2000 miles 2. And Drivka. Yes. Which is just. He gave a very serious and somber speech about obviously the absolute terror that he witnessed while making the film and what is transpiring in Ukraine right now. And, you know, we talked about his Mariupol film a few years ago, which came out. I'm still shocked. This movie was not nominated for best documentary. But it was a different energy when.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He spoke, which I think was the only way to play it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Agreed.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Like, what he does in terms of filmmaking is absolutely incredible and essential and harrowing. And he even talked, the anecdote that he gave was about while filming for this film. And he was. He was with like a friend, a colleague, someone else who turned to him and said, you know, why do you have a camera in. In your hand instead of a gun? And, you know, and he talked about like this, the sadness of the world that we live in, that you. You and where he's from in Ukraine, you need a gun instead of a camera right now. But also that the, you know, the filmmaking world allows him to use the camera in a. In a different way. I mean, it, like, I thought it was illuminating. It was not like, uplifting, because the situation there is not uplifting right now.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But I just respect his work so much so.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I think it gives a show like that a lot of shape, that it can be a lot of fun and it can be Timothee Chalamet busting his friends balls. And it can also be honoring really good work like that. And then Paul Thomas Anderson won and we can talk a little bit about the speech and the acceptance and then maybe just like, what this is, if anything, what it means, if anything. So he spoke, I thought, quite movingly again, about Adam Sumner, who was his first AD on the film, a first AD who has worked with a lot of great filmmakers, including Steven Spielberg. The One Battle After Another is already a tribute to Him. And at the end of the film, if you stay through the credits, you can hear Sumner's voice kind of moving a crowd during a sequence as a tribute to him. And it had been communicated to us by a couple of people, like, he's probably going to win in part because the movie is kind of oriented around the directing crews and speaking to the work that they do. And, like, it honors someone who's passed and also PTA who's not won this award, who's been making movies for the last 30 years.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But I think, you know, as you said, Sumner has worked with or did work with so many great filmmakers and was so beloved in that community. And it was not just on Saturday night that PTA was talking about Sumner and the very first one battle after another screening that you and I went to at the Director's Guild in his Q and A with Steven Spielberg, he talked a lot about Adam Sumner. He's thanked him, you know, at every awards show. This has been a central. They've, you know, the film is dedicated to him. So. So that. I'm sure that that knowledge and affected the voting process, but I think that's kind of also what the DJs are for.

[Sean Fennessy]

Totally.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And that was what was cool about being there. So I thought. Yeah, he spoke, you know, very, very lovingly. He. He started again with sort of a Spielberg tribute. And just in that, he. He compared the experience to, like, being in Close Encounters, that everyone in the room has, like, a call to the mountain. But then the Adam Sumner tribute was very emotional, very heartfelt. Yes. And not like, really.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's like, I wish for you to have the love that I had with this man who we worked with.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. And if you have it, hold it close.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And, yeah, like, very emotional and, like, not overly, you know, prepared. There was even a moment where he.

[Sean Fennessy]

Was kind of got a little caught up. Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And ultimately ended by saying, like, he would have just loved this. Like, thank you so much, because he would have loved it. It was really. It was meaningful. So it was special to be there for that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, it was a really, really good speech and a good win and an interesting win. And I'm kind of turning it over in my mind in terms of the shape of the race. Like, to me, this award show was. It was a valuable experience for us because we talk about this stuff, like their action figures, you know, and it's just like. Or it's like the DVOA in terms of performance, like a football team, when we talk about the award season. But when you're talking about a colleague who you made a movie with, who passed after you made the movie, and then you're being honored for the movie. That's a human relationship. That's a real person who died and is a big part of this person's long professional career. We all have experiences like that. But it is still a race and this is still kind of like a stop on the trolley of leading up to the Academy Awards. And you know, in the 80 year history of the DGAs, the DGA winner has only lost the Oscar eight times. It is like one of the most rubber stamped awards that we have in the world. And so you can safely bet now that Paul Thomas Anderson is going to win Best Director at the Academy Awards. And I think it's a collision of a lot of things. Obviously admiration for the film, admiration for his body of work. I think the way that he has kind of like walked through this last six months has been pretty, pretty smooth. It's kind of hard to go through this considering like what this movie is about and what people are asking about it. And it is divisive. Like there are clearly people who do not like the movie too. Beyond that, do you think this does anything else for the race?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, we were talking about it at the ceremony of like, how do we feel about sinners and where is it and is it surging? And I had a few conversations on Friday. I said to you are like all of the questions were about sinners and you know, and so it certainly seems like there is some movement. And as you pointed out, there has been a split between Best Picture and Best Director several times in the past.

[Sean Fennessy]

More frequently since they went to 10 nominees.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

And we can explore like why that is. But I do think that that's interesting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yes. Though even there, the most recent split is in 2021. And I do feel that because of how quickly the Academy votership is changing and even how, you know, some of the voting rules are changing, like precedent really only applies like a few years back. I think you're right at this point And I think 2021 also being one of the pandemic years, it really 2018 is your last real split moment. So that's, that's almost 10 years now.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, I want to talk about that a little bit. So just there's been six examples in the last 20 years. Those six examples just for everybody at home are Argo winning Best Picture and Ang Lee winning for Life of PI. In 2013, 12 Years of Slave won Best Picture and Alfonso Cuaron one for Gravity. In 2015, Spotlight won Best Picture. Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu won for the revenant. In 16, of course, moonlight and Damien Chazelle, the famous mix up at the Best Picture final award. In 2018, Green Book won Best Picture and Alfonso Cuaron won again for roma. And in 2021, Cota won best Picture and Jane Campion won for the Power of the dog. In 2021, Coda had this incredible late surgeon, you know where. It was a movie that premiered at Sundance one year earlier, but very few people got around to seeing it. It was an Apple film. Apple, you know, not that didn't have, like, much primacy as a streaming service or as a movie studio, but they did have a lot of money to spend and they spent a ton of money very smartly on their campaign, basically from November, end of November through February. And they managed to race ahead of the Power of the Dog, which is a movie that I think people admired and didn't love. And so there was a vulnerability there. And that's really the only case where I think this can happen. I think if you look at the other examples, if you look at Spotlight over the Revenant, I think people just liked Spotlight more. They admired the craft in the Revenant. But the Revenant is a tough movie. If you look at Moonlight Over La La Land, that's an interesting one because that. That marked a real shift in the academy. But there was, I think, maybe just something about the sincerity of moonlight that overwhelmed it in that particular case. And Green Book and Roma is the ultimate example of this where it's like, I think people looked at Roma and they were like, this is a master filmmaker telling a truly personal story.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Sean Fennessy]

But Green Book, I had a good time.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. I mean, not all of these examples, but some of them are crowd pleasing versus or not even crowd pleasing, but like wider reach versus technical achievement, which I don't really think is a split that applies here. I mean, it is box office wise. Obviously, Sinner Sinners is the bigger movie.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. Irrefutably the bigger movie. It's also the most commercial movie.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. But I don't think one battle is closed off.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not small.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right. And also is not. It's not inaccessible.

[Sean Fennessy]

Even if it's provocative, it's very timely, truthfully. A lot of what transpires in the movie obviously is reflected in what's been happening in America, especially in the last two months. And I think that kind of benefits it. Hopefully that doesn't sound gross when I say that, but I do think it is meaningful that there's this reflection of the times. Sinners. I think it's better to just talk about this plainly. I'm really curious to see what an international academy thinks of that. That story, because American black stories were consistently told don't travel. Sinners didn't do as well internationally relative to its domestic performance and is very much an American story and a black American story about the very nature of creativity in the black community over, you know, 300 years. And I don't know if that's gonna resonate. I really don't. It obviously resonated with the body enough to give it that many nominations. A split would be interesting. I don't think it would be bad. I think it would be. I think it would be an interesting outcome.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I still. The fact that they're competing in original screenplay and adapted screenplay really opens up the lane. I feel really confident that Coogler will and should win original screenplay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think PTA will as well. I think he'll win and adapt it for sure. So.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you know, we've talked about it over and over, but original screenplay is always our favorite award and is where, like, the real ones get awarded every year and all our heroes are awarded and then the Academy often skips those. You know, Jordan Peele won for get out in original screenplay. Tarantino won for Pulpiction in original screenplay. Sofia Coppola won for Lost in Translation and original screenplay. Those movies did not win best picture. You know what's weird about it is that normally a quote unquote, less deserving in our minds movie triumphs over films like that. And in this case, we both really love one battle after another. It is strange to be talking about this race while rooting for both films. We don't typically. Yeah, I know. It's wonderful for a change. And I do wonder how it affects, like, our handicapping, where.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think that's it. You just nailed it. Where I'm like, I kind of don't know. No, I feel a little lost in the sauce on this one because it's very clear that there's an overwhelming admiration for Sinners. It's also clear that there's an overwhelming admiration for Paul Thomas Anderson. And so that's why the split seems plausible to me. We've obviously got a month before this all wraps up, but this was more or less confirmation that he's really, really strong in director.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I asked you in the room when they're gonna re release Sinners before the. Before the Oscars. Which just seems like an absolute no brainer to me.

[Sean Fennessy]

They did do it in kind of.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Fits and starts, but they all. And they did it like an imax.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exactly. It was an IMAX re release, but it was not a wide re release.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I just don't understand. Why not?

[Sean Fennessy]

It's a good question. I'm not sure. Did you see the news that the Academy.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did.

[Sean Fennessy]

So the Academy is no longer screening films for Academy members after the nominations because they're getting very low attendance. An average of 5 people showing up to screenings that the Academy is paying for and putting on in various theaters around the city and probably around the world so that people can come and watch the films and then vote on them after that in a theater. And that's because the Academy portal exists, which is an app that the Academy has created very wisely to make everything accessible to all their members so that they can vote on it. You know, I find this incredibly troubling and sad, but it's also obviously not unreasonable that this happened.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But also you. And I also use the portals for the practical.

[Sean Fennessy]

I try to not do first watches that way. I genuinely try not to do first watches that way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

As do I. As much as I can. But this is also. These are. They're canceling them after the nominations.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And people already have access to. Through the portal. I like, I don't know.

[Sean Fennessy]

This.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This just seems like reality. It just seems like budget.

[Sean Fennessy]

But it's a slow step though in the march to everything kind of, kind of ending. And I'm not, I'm. It's not cataclysmic. It's just like the Academy Awards isn't going to do screenings like the Academy Awards that is premised upon theatrical movies.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that's because people aren't going.

[Sean Fennessy]

I know.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Which is not. I don't. I don't blame it.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's. No one's. You know, it's just like. It's just what happened.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It is what it is.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's just what happened.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

We failed to mention Charlie Pollinger won for the Plague for the first time feature award, which is a bit of an upset, I think relative to the nominees. But I liked the Plague and I thought it was pretty promising. And I like what he's flashing. And I mentioned to you that he's making the Mask of the red death for a 24 now and I'm looking forward to that movie. He seemed a bit gobsmacked up there. Sure, he was. Also. Who did he address? Was it Steven Spielberg? Who was he Addressing maybe. No, it was President Nolan.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's right.

[Sean Fennessy]

He said president Nolan, but not in a funny way.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

He said President Nolan, like, you know, he, like, lives in a communist nation, you know, and was sort of like, I bow down to thee.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I think he said, it feels incredibly strange to be in the same room, you know, as you, President Nolan. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Which was kind of funny. And we just put a button on the Nolan thing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

So Nolan spoke before Kumail's monologue.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He walked out to Kashmir by Led Zeppelin.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And gave the first feature of the night.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. Fascinating musical choices throughout the evening.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He did acknowledge it. He was like. That was quite dramatic. He's like, I enter every room to that. Which I enjoy.

[Sean Fennessy]

He gave a thoughtful speech about the loss of work for the many members of the DGA and just kind of how Hollywood in general is in this conflagration of a moment. Things are really fucked up in the world of moviemaking right now. I do think we've turned a corner a little bit. And I think if you look at screenplay sales and spec scripts are kind of ticking upwards recently, and that is a good sign that maybe we're just kind of getting to the next phase of all this. To my point about the superhero movie thing, I do think that we're in a big transition, but as the president of the guild, he needs to be thinking about the members and how they're working and if they're working. And then through the rest of the night, it was almost like Spielberg was passing the baton to Nolan or something as, like, the signature directorial voice in the world. And that is really interesting that he's.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Taken that space or, like the institutional guy in Hollywood in that room.

[Sean Fennessy]

But not just. But to me, it was almost like, when you say the word director to the public at large, who is the first name that comes to your mind? And Steven Spielberg has been that person for more than 30 years. I mean, he might be the, er, example, like, maybe going back to, like, John Ford, you know, like, it was like, who. What is director? Maybe Alfred Hitchcock is probably the best. Or Stanley Kubrick.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But, like, even still, because, like, with Jaws, he invented the summer blockbuster. And so. And, you know, then Indiana Jones, then Jurassic Park. Like, everyone has a Spielberg moment. So he, like, he kind of took it global.

[Sean Fennessy]

And I do feel like in movies in the last 10 or 15 years, like, a lot of the norms have been eroded around movie going. The way that franchises have incurred, the way that theatrical exhibition is down, the primacy of movies as a central art form in our country. But this was something that I was like, this is an old school baton pass that we're witnessing. We're watching one master very gently let this guy take center stage. And it's so interesting that he is the president of the Guild at that time. And then during Paul Thomas Anderson's final speech, he was acknowledging his fellow nominees and he started insinuating the possibility of President Del Toro another blow.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He said, president Nolan has a. Does have a nice ring to it. And so does President Del Toro, come to think of it.

[Sean Fennessy]

So I wonder if the next administration, the bull as. As. As PTA described it, could be coming. Good. Good show.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was fun.

[Sean Fennessy]

Good night. Fun night.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

How'd you feel getting gussied up?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, I like an occasion. It was great. I borrowed a dress from my friend Lauren. Thank you. It was great. Thanks. It was Loewe by Jonathan Anderson. No one asked or cared. Like I didn't walk a carpet. No, but. But I liked wearing it.

[Sean Fennessy]

I forgot to mention Emily Bader.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, yeah. I went to the bathroom and Emily Bader was there. And I was this close to being like, you were great. But I didn't. She was talking with some other people.

[Sean Fennessy]

She would have loved that. So even though Timothee Chalamet and Jacob Elordi and Leonardo DiCaprio and Michael B. Jordan were all there and spoke, you get the impression they weren't really sitting through the ceremony.

[Amanda Dobbins]

No, I didn't see.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think they jumped right on a PJ and then went to wherever they went. In Leonardo DiCaprio's case, I think he went right to a Super bowl party. God bless. He was photographed later that night in San. I mean, that's just king shit.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's a quick fight. He loves an event.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, for sure. But they weren't sitting through. But Emily Bader sat through and she also presented an award. And she was stunning.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah, she's very beautiful.

[Sean Fennessy]

I don't know what to say. She looked really good. And I hope that everything works out for her. I hope she becomes a big star.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I do as well. She was there with Lucas Gage, who I did not remember from the film. People we meet on vacation.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yes. He was the guy who drove the boat.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But he was there as well.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, he was there. He was in Smile 2.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Did you see Smile 2?

[Amanda Dobbins]

No.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wasn't my favorite.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All right. Should I see Smile?

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, you know, I've been thinking about what you were saying about your reaction to horror movies. And actually my primary criticism of Smile and Smile 2. Is your general criticism of horror movies, which is. I found it scares to be annoying rather than effective.

[Amanda Dobbins]

All right.

[Sean Fennessy]

And so I'm not sure if it would be the movie for you. A lot of people love those movies, though. They've been big hits.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm happy for people that they enjoy things.

[Sean Fennessy]

Closing notes on the DJs.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It was fun. Invite me to your party.

[Sean Fennessy]

What other award show would you like to go to?

[Amanda Dobbins]

Do we want to go to the Oscars?

[Sean Fennessy]

I really don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

It's because we got to work and I've been in that room. It seems like a real hassle.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I'm like, respectfully, I'm not doing a press.

[Sean Fennessy]

You know, the Academy has always been very generous and has invited us many years in a row, and we don't go because we have a professional obligation. I have two virtual tickets in my email right now for both us of. Oh, okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't know that. Well, they.

[Sean Fennessy]

I've told you in the past that we get that, but it just doesn't make sense for our job to. To go to the show. I guess out of curiosity, I'd like to go once.

[Amanda Dobbins]

The thing is, like, I'd love to go to all the parties afterwards.

[Sean Fennessy]

Another thing I don't care about.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I mean, it just. Matt Bellamy just talks about, like, the hors d' oeuvre spread, you know, all the.

[Sean Fennessy]

What?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I love a past app. As you know. Once again, I'm a great wedding guest, so if we could work.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, that's just like, a pathway to getting RSV or something. I don't. I don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Listen, it's done. You know, I'm free again. I'm ready. I'm ready to hit the. Hit the party.

[Sean Fennessy]

You're clear. You're clear now. No, I don't want to go to the parties. I don't care about that. I want private conversation with people I think are cool. That's different from going to a party.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I don't want that at all.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, that's the best part.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, that makes me. Well, I don't want to meet people like, I have. No. Jacob Elordi was at the. Perfect.

[Sean Fennessy]

The whole thing. Jack, you don't.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Why would I want to meet someone in chat. Hey, I think you're cool.

[Sean Fennessy]

No, it's. What are you talking about? You talk. You immediately start talking about their work in their life, and who they are as people.

[Amanda Dobbins]

So weird. Why would you want to do it every episode? I know, but that's. Because everyone. There's a Contract here at this table, you know, where we talk about our work. Just like, hey, man, I really admire.

[Sean Fennessy]

Like, you know what it immediately becomes? It's just like any other conversation with any other adult in my life right now.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Kids. It's kids.

[Sean Fennessy]

How old your kids.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But, like, I don't have the Knicks or the Mets to fall back on. What I'm going to talk about.

[Sean Fennessy]

While we were recording this episode, I got news that Francisco Lindor broke a toe bone. Is that what it is? Is it a toe bone, Jack? Not sure about the specifics, other than the surgery requires a six week recovery and we are six and a half weeks away from a. I will kill myself.

[Amanda Dobbins]

That's fine, though. Like, for a toe bone. My. My son called me to his room last night because he banged his. He, like, stubbed his toe. Yeah. And I told him I was like, the thing about hurting your toe, you just got to let it rest. That's all you can do. So he's going to be fine. He has six weeks. It'll rest and then he'll be fine.

[Sean Fennessy]

He's getting surgery, though. Well, you know, you need when you play baseball is your toes. You need to be able to move. You need everything when you play shortstop range is very fine.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He's young. He'll have surgery. Surgery is not when you're young anymore.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's not a toe. It is the hamate bone, which is, I believe is in the wrist.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, that's bad.

[Sean Fennessy]

Pinky side of the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, now I take it back.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, no. That's what Francisco Alvarez Wrist is bad. Oh, no.

[Amanda Dobbins]

And you need that.

[Sean Fennessy]

Oh, no.

[Amanda Dobbins]

This season's fuck and like and like.

[Sean Fennessy]

No. Okay, let's like, let's pull back for a second.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

Stern's masterclass. This is why we signed four shortstops. We're rich with shortstops. We've got four shortstops playing the four infield positions. Maybe one of them can slide into the shortstop.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Only one of them is name checked by Tracy Letts in the Catherine Bigelow film House of Dynamite, though.

[Sean Fennessy]

God, that was just so special. I bet that that character in that film also has admiration for Bouchette. That's all I'm going to say.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, Boba Shed is also a shortstop.

[Sean Fennessy]

He. He was. We're moving him to third base, but maybe now maybe we're.

[Amanda Dobbins]

He could dip in. Yeah, Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's probably more likely. Is.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Is shortstop and third base like an interchangeable thing, or is it like teaching Chris Pratt to play first base?

[Sean Fennessy]

I think it's more interchangeable. Are we moving Marcus Semian to shortstop? No, Bo would play short. Simeon's at second. But I mean Bo is a net negative defensively. I disagree. Okay. All right. Also, you guys have to go to the Oscars. One year. One year. You have to do it. It's literally the biggest episode of the year. But we'll still make it happen. We'll make it work. Oh, you want to. Do you think we can go and then do an episode right afterwards? I will be have you like.

[Amanda Dobbins]

But what do you know about press rooms, Jack Sanders?

[Sean Fennessy]

Literally nothing.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. So why don't you go this year and scope it out first?

[Sean Fennessy]

No, we need him. We can't take that would be very funny if you guys sent to the.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Academy Awards, by the way at iheart awards we're sending you. So is that over?

[Sean Fennessy]

Did we win in Austin? Is that done? Did we win? I don't think so. Okay. All right. I did tell Amanda that if the rewatchables wins, I will immediately retweet with I demand a recount. Just putting that out there. Anything else? K Pop demon hunters. You saw it in theaters?

[Amanda Dobbins]

I did. I was at this screening. It was wonderful. It was so exciting. Knox was there also and it really, it had its intended effect in my household, which is like we drove home listening to the soundtrack. Soda Pop came on and my 4 year old son was like, no, no, this is the boys song. We don't listen to that. Which was like incredible.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't know you learned properly.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I didn't know that he was capable of that level of plot in this.

[Sean Fennessy]

Alice also knows Saja boys songs not allowed in our house whatsoever.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, I'm gonna tell you something. Soda pop is a jam. He's asked to rewatch it several times.

[Sean Fennessy]

Exciting.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Very into the tiger. So. And then even my psy, my younger son, he feels the rhythm of the K pop, you know, lot of bangers in there. It's been fun to watch it happen in my house now that they're slightly older.

[Sean Fennessy]

We've been circling having Maggie Kang and Chris Applehance on the show for a long time. So I'm glad we got to do it in this environment. I hope people enjoy. Let's go now to my conversation with Maggie Kang and Chris Applehans. Hello, I'm Sean. How are you? What'd you think of that movie? Pretty amazing, right? This is Maggie Kang. This is Chris Applehans. They're the directors of this film. Co screenwriters, guys. Wow. What is it like to see so Many young people having an emotional experience with something that you've created.

[Chris Applehans]

Pretty cool.

[Maggie Kang]

Pretty amazing. Aw, so cute.

[Chris Applehans]

Just my favorite part. My son Alexander is here. Hi, Alexander. He's five and he was in the bathtub and he was singing about seeing the beauty in the broken glass. And I was like, okay. There's a lot of feelings going on.

[Maggie Kang]

It's a tough life for a five year old.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do think it makes young children reflect on their deepest feelings. One of the magic tricks of this movie was that something you thought about when you were writing it, about trying to give kids access to a feeling they don't know how to put words to.

[Chris Applehans]

Not intentionally.

[Maggie Kang]

Not intentionally. Yeah. I mean, to be honest, we wanted to just make a movie for ourselves. I mean, I think as a filmmaker, that's the first person that you make the movie for because I don't know you're going to be on this journey for. I mean, I was on this journey for seven years, so I'm not gonna invest seven years of my life in someone else's life.

[Chris Applehans]

I guess.

[Maggie Kang]

So, yeah, like we made the film for ourselves and for me it was just all ages of myself. You know, I wanted to see characters like this in a movie like this growing up. And so it was for my young self, like 7, 8 year old self, the 12 year old self that loved K Pop and had to kind of hide it. And this was like, yes, now we can celebrate this. I was right all along. And then for my, you know, something, something version of myself, age redacted as a filmmaker and a mom and, you know, a grown woman wanting to kind of explore a deeper theme in movies like this. Having worked in the animation industry industry for a long time and you know, we tend to kind of cater those films a little younger to children and we are firm believers as well as like Sony Pictures Animation and trying to push the boundaries of what the animation medium can do and what kind of stories we tell. So, yeah, I think we just wanted to like make a movie we wanted to see.

[Sean Fennessy]

I wanted to ask you both if you can remember the first animated film that you saw and maybe what impact it had on you.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, first ever.

[Maggie Kang]

Oh, that's.

[Chris Applehans]

Now we have to un. Redact our ages. The original Snow White.

[Maggie Kang]

Unless you say like Gertie the Dinosaur.

[Chris Applehans]

I think the first memory of a feature I have was Beauty and the Beast. And I remember thinking, as Belle was singing, there must be more than this provincial life. I was like, yes, there must be for me too. And I grew up in a small Town in Idaho. So maybe it kind of makes sense. But. Yeah, but I don't know. I didn't have an experience of, like, I must make animated films. It was more. I love to tell stories, and this is a great medium to do it in. Yeah.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah, me too.

[Chris Applehans]

Same.

[Maggie Kang]

Like, I grew up with a cinephile dad, so I think I was like, 8 years old when I watched, like, Hidden Fortress, you know, and. Yeah, like, very. And I was. Grew up on Curacao films.

[Sean Fennessy]

And did you see it before Star Wars? Yes. So you were. So you knew that it was ripping off Hidden Fortress?

[Maggie Kang]

I believe it was. And I think that's why my dad showed it to me, because he's like, you must watch this before you watch this.

[Sean Fennessy]

That's a great education.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah, so. Because he was very much like a film snob, but then also loved Hollywood films, and he loved, like, just. Just everything. He was just kind of like a full spectrum kind of guy, so. And still is he.

[Sean Fennessy]

Still.

[Maggie Kang]

He. He watches for like, the last, like, 35 years. He's watched anywhere from, like, two to four films a week and still does.

[Sean Fennessy]

Wow.

[Maggie Kang]

Which is like.

[Sean Fennessy]

Those are low numbers for me.

[Maggie Kang]

Oh, really?

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah.

[Maggie Kang]

Okay.

[Sean Fennessy]

But for normal people, that's very impressive.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, wow.

[Maggie Kang]

Okay.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Well, okay, then I will tell him that.

[Chris Applehans]

Didn't he organize them by.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Oh, he does.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah. He ordered region director.

[Sean Fennessy]

I do it by director. Yeah.

[Maggie Kang]

And he has, like, a whole catalog where he, like, tracks and he's like, circles stuff. He's like, I need this one. I can't find it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Can you give him my phone number when this is over? Yeah. We have a lot to talk about. I was actually wondering, you know, this is going to seem a little weird to say in front of a room full of little kids, but watching the movie this time around, I was like, oh, I think that's a Train to Busan reference. I feel like there are a lot of Korean film references in this movie and a lot of film references in general. And I'm wondering how intentional a lot of that was and how much you thought about inspirations and actually putting them into the screenplay.

[Maggie Kang]

Wait, I want to know what this Train to Busan references.

[Sean Fennessy]

Well, you've got a big train sequence with demons, and an empty train car popped into my mind.

[Maggie Kang]

I don't think anything is intentional.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Right.

[Maggie Kang]

Is there something?

[Chris Applehans]

No. It felt like one of our big bonds as filmmaking partners was we were both huge fans of Bong Joon Ho, and we both had, like, a formative experience watching the Host where we're like, wait, you can be so dramatic and scary and funny right next to each other. And the tone of this movie is full. We're jumping all over the place. But I think we also bonded on all the K dramas that we've watched. And then, like Director park, like, so many. I think we're in this cool era. Like, for me as a kid from Idaho, starting at 23, when I saw a movie called My Sassy Girlfriend, which is a great Korean rom com, if you've never seen it. And it's like this lovely, funny relationship that's very Korean but very accessible. So starting at 23 to now, many decades later, like, so many of my formative filmmaking experiences were Korean films, which I think happens a lot more now because young people can watch movies from all over the world. All of our crew on this film had an amazing library of anime that they'd watched. So we could just refer to Cowboy Bebop or Sailor Moon or whatever, flcl. And they were on it. So I think we're living in a new time where that education can come from outside the US which is pretty cool.

[Maggie Kang]

But then it's all of that coupled with all the comedy that we love. I love The Simpsons and Brooklyn 99 and pen 13, which is something that. Pen 15, 15, 13.

[Chris Applehans]

Oh, 13. Because it looks like a. Oh, that's right.

[Sean Fennessy]

Okay.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah. And so, yeah, just, just. It was. This movie is like everything that we like, you know, all across the board, like film, music, fashion, design, color. And so it's just a celebration of, like. And oddly, like, we slowly. I don't know, slowly, probably slowly we realized we just have the same taste. And that's what made it so easy for us to work together because we kind of envisioned the same movie just even from the beginning. And then we slowly realized that as we were making the film and then going on this award circuit, we traveled together and we realized, oh, my gosh, we actually really have the same taste where we're ordering the same food on the plane or at a restaurant and then realizing, like, our spouses are almost us.

[Chris Applehans]

And then Maggie forced me to buy these shoes when we're in Europe. And I got home and Maureen was my wife. Maureen, who's here, was like, finally, you have a proper pair of shoes. I was like, oh, no, there's no escape.

[Sean Fennessy]

You mentioned that the movie is a lot of different kinds of movies all in one. Right? It's a musical and it's an action movie, and it's a buddy comedy, and it's a lot of different kinds of things. And it's really hard, I assume, to balance all those styles. How do you know that it's working? How do you know that there's balance in that tone that you're going for?

[Maggie Kang]

I think we just. You have to kind of try it. And that's the beauty about the animation process is you can rework something so many times versus in a live action film, you only get one or two tries to shoot it, and then that's your movie. With animation, we can iterate until basically we run out of time or money or our producer says, okay, that's enough, this is the movie. And so we just tried a lot of stuff and we spent most of the production in the story process just tweaking everything. Like our movie, the plot and the emotional story never changed that much from the first draft. And we had that concert scene at the end in the first draft too. And we felt like that was such an emotionally satisfying moment for a film like this. And so we were like, how do we earn that moment? And that was what we were working towards in all the kind of versions of the movie that led us to. To the final.

[Chris Applehans]

Yeah. I think also what we tried to do is even if a sequence was maybe primarily comedic, it wasn't ever just doing that. So like there might, if you guys remember the scene where they're signing for the fans and it becomes this funny sign off and battle within that is a conversation between Rumi and Ginu about her anger, about how she feels about herself. And he's prodding her and she blurts something out and you learn a little bit about how he feels about Kima. So superficially that's a really wacky moment, but it's actually advancing character. And then other times, like in the final scene, you're singing this beautiful anthem that's so vulnerable and soulful. And then like 10 seconds later, popcorn is coming out of Mira's eyes. Right. So you're never just doing one of the things. You're always trying to mix the ingredients and then it feels coherent and not scattershot.

[Sean Fennessy]

I guess whenever I'm talking to animation filmmakers, I'm curious to demystify the process. So you say you would tweak it and see it over again. So what is it specifically that you're seeing again? Are you entirely reanimating a sequence? Is it just an animatic? What do you see? And then how do you know if it plays or it doesn't play?

[Maggie Kang]

It's always an animatic with storyboards. That I drawn in black and white. And they're just very loose sketches that convey emotion of the character. So it's a lot of faces and the eyebrows and acting and, you know, we just had a talk with Phil Lord and Chris Miller the other day, and Chris mentioned something really great. Like, with an animated film, you should be able to turn off all sound and still know what's going on with the story. Because the acting of the face of, like, the body and just all the kind of interesting. I guess visual cues and visual moments should tell you what the story is.

[Chris Applehans]

Like the ultimate show. Don't tell. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

It's funny you bring up Lord and Miller, too. I read that you said that Spider Verse was a bit of an inspiration for the film. And I wanted to hear you both talk about the animation style that you landed on for this movie. It feels like it's kind of between your classic 2D and 3D and how you guys thought about it and why it looks the way that. That it does. Yeah.

[Chris Applehans]

I think it was all a product of wanting a certain set of characters and their story and a tone. So the tone and the characters drove everything. So we wanted them to be incredibly glamorous and powerful and awesome and pop stars and also goofy and weird and have none of their makeup on and wear their pajama pants and also pour out their soul sometimes. And so the character designs were influenced by things like cowboy bebop, kind of, which, if you guys haven't seen it, it's a great animated series that's kind of got its own. It's got a relationship to K dramas in terms of these sort of larger than life characters that they're so cool, but also they're very funny and flawed. So those influences of the story we wanted to tell, really, we reverse engineered the designs, their expressiveness to be able to accomplish that whole tonal range. And that led because the ingredients at the start were unique. It led to a unique look, I think, for the animation.

[Maggie Kang]

And then we animated mostly on twos, which Spider Verse does as well. And we made that decision because there's a lot of dancing and choreography and fight choreography in this film. And when you animate on twos, it allows you to be more snappy and high contrast. And that's something that we really like. And there's a lot of, like, high contrast moments in the comedy tone of it. So that's why we went with the two animating on twos. But, you know, there are times when we animate on 3Ds on ones. I don't really remember what those moments were, but I think, yeah, they're all choices made because the moment asks for it.

[Chris Applehans]

And I think the biggest. When we saw Spider Verse, we were watching the premiere, and we were like, two, three years into the movie and, like, five minutes.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah, like, on one, I know I.

[Chris Applehans]

Was opposite sides of the theater. And like, five minutes in, Maggie texts me. She's like, oh, my God, it's so good. But I think what it. We felt like this movie was very ambitious, and there were times when we're like, is it too ambitious? Are we trying to do too many things? Then you watch Spider Verse and you're like, nah, and do anything. And we just. We were like, pedal to the metal. We're going to do all of it and make it as and just execute till we had nothing left to give. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm glad you mentioned choreography. So there's an amazing amount of dance choreography and fight choreography in the movie. An unusual amount for a movie like this. Are you writing that into the screenplay? Do you know what the movements of the characters are meant to be? Do you have choreographers that you work with to execute? How does that explain how that works for us?

[Maggie Kang]

No, in the writing phrase, you just write, now they dance.

[Chris Applehans]

And it's really cool.

[Maggie Kang]

We're like, song start. Yeah, we had a lot of. We had a few teams of choreographers that we worked with from Korea, really famous K pop choreographer, dance choreographers. And then we worked with a team called the K Tigers, who are Taekwondo specialists. But then they're also integrating pop dance moves into their choreography. So the first time we went to Korea as a group on a research trip, we met with them and we were like, yeah, we're thinking like, Taekwondo mixed with modern K Pop. And they're like, okay. And so they start doing it, and we're like, oh, we didn't think this was possible, but they were already doing it. And I don't know, we just had this kind of moment where we're all just crying and thinking like, oh, my gosh, it's actually possible we could actually pull this off. So, yeah. And that's kind of what happened throughout this entire process when we were like, how do we pull this off? And we go to the pros for some advice. They're like, oh, this is. You know. And it's because they were so inspired by the concept. They were excited to be challenged. And at every stage of this production, every team was like, yes, we are down to be challenged. Let's figure this Out. And I think that's how we got this done.

[Sean Fennessy]

I have a similar question about the songs. What are you writing when you're saying and now one of the greatest K pop songs you've ever heard that you will live in your mind?

[Maggie Kang]

That's what we write.

[Chris Applehans]

It was one of the hardest and funnest parts of the film. And it was really. There was no roadmap because people have written musicals before, but those aren't pop songs. And people have written pop songs, but never that. We're trying to live in a story. So the part that we spent months on we would write essentially called them like a sond document. And it's like a five page thing and it's a scene but in song structure. So if you think of like golden, it's like we're talking about what each of the girls almost a monologue about where they came from and how they felt before they found each other. And then the pre chorus is about what it meant to find my place in a group in the chorus. And so we're writing a scene that should feel interesting to read as a scene. And then we're talking about the metaphor. Cause one of the lessons we learned is like, you can't sing and now the Han moon will be golden. Like it's no longer a pop song, it's something else. Right. So we had to have a metaphor, whether it's your idol or Takedown. Like we talk about the songs on a whole different level of like Takedown is about having like some boyfriend you broke up with who you know is a jerk and you just can't wait for everyone else to find out what a jerk he is. Or golden is about feeling like you have so much to offer and you haven't found the place to do it yet. And I'm so close now to. To really showing the world who I am. So we were always juggling this very particular story things and then this more pop metaphor. And then we would give that to the song team and then just say no for the first 12 versions. Until it was great. Until it gave us butterflies in our stomach.

[Maggie Kang]

We'd like to say that we tricked all the songwriters into working on an animated movie because they're like, wait, what? How many versions of this are you doing? And we're like, oh, many. They were very surprised because usually in pop writing you do maybe like, I don't know, I think like two, three max versions, iterations, a round of notes and then you're kind of done. But you know, our story process Is that it's constantly evolving and changing. And, you know, if we tweak a story moment here to kind of affect a character's arc, and then we have to, like, do these little nips and tucks everywhere, and that's what needs to happen with the music as well. So it was a real challenge. It was kind of like two stories or, like, two writing things. Challenges that you were facing, like, just with the screenplay. But then the music is so interwoven into that story. So we were working. We were basically writing two screenplays.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

I couldn't think of very many comparisons. Like Bye Bye Birdie popped in my head as, like, what's a musical that is reflecting a current moment in popular music that features songs that are sort of in the spirit of that music, but it kind of hasn't been done before. So did people say, this is not going to work?

[Chris Applehans]

No. Which is wonderful. We had a great executive music producer whose name is Ian Eisendrath. He comes from a Broadway background. And then we had many partners, but foremost was Black Label, which is one of the best labels in K pop. And so I think it was more like the onus was on us to be able to give them the direction on the pop level and the story level, so they had a shot at creating this synthesis. But part of it was like, we were like, we won't be able to point you to anything because it hasn't been done. So we're going to have to do a new thing that you don't know how to do we don't know how to do, and we're gonna have to find it together. And everybody was just, to Maggie's point, they were just down for that and down for doing version 13, which is amazing. Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

My daughter's here. She's four and a half. This is one of her favorite movies of all time. And I think one of the reasons why, even if this is subconscious, is that this is a movie, as a friend said to me before this screening started, about women just saying, like, yeah, we'll do it ourselves. Which is. There's not a lot of movies about that either. And I know there are a lot of themes that you guys were thinking about as you were writing through, but that's one that seems to be really resonating. I was hoping you could maybe talk about writing that into the characters.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah, I mean, one of the main parts of the initial pitch was just seeing female characters in a movie like this that I feel like we haven't seen. I've been in many story rooms where it's an entourage and there's one or two female characters out of six or seven, and we spend hours talking about how do we make our female characters pop? And I'm like, oh, I just hate that. And I've been in many rooms where I would suggest, like, well, why don't we take the most interesting male character and make that one of those. The female characters. And then it's just silence. And so when it came time to make a movie of my own, that's, you know, I wanted to just kind of, like, you know, relieve that frustration. And this is the version of female characters that I want to see. You know, I feel like I am this kind of, like, I'm very silly and this. And I like to make dumb faces. But I'm also serious and emotional. And I think I just wanted to explore, like, what is the type of women that I wanted to see? And so the task was, how do we make three distinct female characters that are that. And so that was part of the initial pitch. And also, it's a story about sisterhood. It's about found family and a friendship between these three girls. And I truly believe true intimacy only comes when you are the most silly version of yourself with somebody else. And so the kind of zaniness of the girls and being stupid, we like to use that word a lot in this movie. We want it to feel stupid. And I think there's power and confidence. To be like. To be stupid is like. It takes a lot of courage. And to be that version of yourself in front of somebody else takes a lot of courage, too. And so it wasn't just, like, for fun. It really, you know, brings the girls together and we get to see that intimacy in a different, you know, in a different way. So that was what was so important about the comedy of it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Maggie, you mentioned you've been working on this for seven years. Chris, I know you also came off a long Ron on your previous film, Wish Dragon. It's a little different from other kinds of films where you have to spend a really long time making these movies. How do you maintain the focus, stay interested, follow through when it takes huge stretches of life just to complete something?

[Chris Applehans]

Yeah, I don't know. I think we actually. Another thing that we bond around is neither of us got into directing movies because we wanted to be called a director. We were generally a little frustrated with the type of movies that we're working on. And some of them were great, but some of them were not. And feeling like, man, we could do more than this with this medium and with the stories we want to tell. So when I joined the film, which was six years ago, we very quickly bonded around this representation that felt really overdue. This love of music and what it means for people and the sort of themes of the movie about, like, how are we going to treat other people's vulnerabilities and our own? Because it can be weaponized against people and you can control people. And that's kind of what Kima represents, you know, is a toxic version of that. Or you can offer grace and connect to people through this shared vulnerability. And that makes a really strong bond and you lift each other up. Those are pretty important things, and we really cared about them. And I think you need to find at least an inkling of what that is early on, because then that is the reason. That's like your North Pole. That's the mountaintop. And it's so hard to keep going some weekends and some nights when you're just exhausted or you feel like you can't crack it. But when you believe that this thing needs to exist, then it's like raising a child. You just care so much about it that you will suffer constantly because you believe in the thing that is taking shape in front of you.

[Maggie Kang]

It is like you start to build this love hate relationship with your movie.

[Chris Applehans]

Like your child.

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah, but you. Yeah, yes, yes, that's true.

[Sean Fennessy]

I didn't say that.

[Maggie Kang]

But you believe in it so much, so you kind of have to fight for that love, I guess.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah. I probably don't have enough critical distance at this point, but with the distance that you guys have now, really, what do you attribute to this becoming just. It's genuinely a phenomenon that is very, very rare. Not just in animation, but in any movie. For a movie to hit this many people, to hit this them so deeply. What do you think it is that is resonating with people at this point?

[Maggie Kang]

I mean, I think it's the theme of the movie. Embracing parts of yourself that you don't think are acceptable or very pretty. One of the most amazing things that I've seen just on social media and stuff is people coming to. To this movie. Like, in relating to the scars that Rumi has or the patterns and they connect us through, like their surgery scars and the pain that they had to go through to like. I thought that I went. I never even thought of that. And I thought that was so beautiful. And I think there's so many ways that people are interpreting Rumi's journey and what the Scars represent. And so I think there's just so many different ways that you could take that story. And people are kind of relating to it. So I think that's a big thing. And, of course, the music. But we truly believe that the music, all of the music is having its moment because people love the movie so much and the characters, and it kind of returns back to the story. Yeah. And it's really pretty. You know, I like to just turn it on, and it's just kind of a background, like, prettiness.

[Chris Applehans]

We joke about what we call sneaky deep. It's like how we like to tell the story. And it's very related to the Truffaut quote about a great movie is truth and spectacle. So we really wanted to entertain and be funny and be relatable and be spectacular and then plant these little seeds, sneak up on you. Because ultimately, this movie succeeded on word of mouth. People got to the end and they said, oh, I really. That was worth my time. I felt something special. And they just tell somebody else. And that's. It's such a cool era we live in where that's so powerful.

[Sean Fennessy]

We end every episode of the Big Picture by asking filmmakers what is the last great thing they have seen? Have you guys seen any good movies lately?

[Chris Applehans]

I just watched on the plane.

[Maggie Kang]

I'm saying the same thing, I think.

[Chris Applehans]

Is it the Skarsgrd film?

[Maggie Kang]

Yeah. Sentimental value.

[Chris Applehans]

Sentimental value. It's so good, right? Oh, my gosh.

[Sean Fennessy]

What did you like about it?

[Chris Applehans]

I loved. I was like, man, this is a real slow European film. But I didn't. Again, he tricked me. He said he was sneaky. There's like, a shot progression and a silent storytelling to so many parts of the film and the house and the subtext. And I was like, well, that was really cool. And then it kind of gets through, and then you come to the end, and all of that comes full circle structurally as genius. So intentional, so efficient. And I was like, I'm crying on this plane.

[Maggie Kang]

And then. And then the acting is so subtle. There's no, like, real. Like, you don't see anybody, like, cry or, like, just in the relationship with the daughter and the dad at the end, they don't even, like, physically close the gap, but you know that everything's gonna be okay. I just love films like that. So, yeah, it was beautiful. Loved it.

[Sean Fennessy]

Great recommendations. Congratulations to you both. Thank you to Netflix. Thank you to Sony Pictures Animation. Thank you to vidiots. If you're not a member at vidiots, you should join. Thanks to Maggie. Thanks to Chris.

[Chris Applehans]

Thank you, guys.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Give it up.

[Sean Fennessy]

Thanks to Maggie and Chris. Thanks to my friends at vidiots for the fun event. That was awesome. Thanks to our producer Jack Sanders for his work on this episode later this week. Yeah, it's a very horny Valentine's Day double feature.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah. Or is it? That might be part of the problem. Well, well, sure. One of them.

[Sean Fennessy]

I'm very. So our friend Sam Sanders is coming on this episode, which will be fun. And we've been doing his show the last couple years for kcrw and we asked him to do this, I think, with the hope that the horniness would deliver. And we don't totally know where he stands on Wuthering Heights or pillion. The two movies that we'll be discussing in the next episode have some suspicions, but it'd be nice to disagree. Honestly, it'd be useful for the show to disagree because I think we're in pretty lockstep on these two feature films. Excited to discuss them.

[Amanda Dobbins]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennessy]

Yeah, absolutely. I am, too. Emerald Fennel, you know, she gives a lot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

She does.

[Sean Fennessy]

She gives a lot.

[Amanda Dobbins]

I appreciate it. There is much to discuss.

[Sean Fennessy]

I agree. We'll discuss it later this week. We'll see you then.