Around the Big Ten: Playoff teams, coaching hires, dark horses and most important players

Summary

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The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Around the Big Ten — Playoff teams, coaching hires, dark horses & most important players

Recorded: February 18, 2026
Host: Doug Lesmerises
Co-hosts: Bill Landis
Guests: Audrey Snyder (Inside the Lions), Matt Fortuna (Inside Zone)

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Overview

In this wide-ranging, lively "Around the Big Ten" episode, Doug, Bill, Audrey, and Matt dig deep into the state of Big Ten football ahead of the 2026 season. They debate the impact of recent high-profile coaching hires, break down which teams are true playoff contenders, discuss which programs could be this year's Indiana, and spotlight the most crucial players for the upcoming season. The show delivers sharp analysis, some spirited banter, and plenty of insight for fans of Ohio State and the conference at large.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Grading Major Big Ten Coaching Hires (04:28–15:20)

Hires discussed:

• Matt Campbell (Penn State)
• Kyle Whittingham (Michigan)
• Pat Fitzgerald (Michigan State)
• Bob Chesney (UCLA)

Audrey Snyder's Grade:

• B+ overall.
  • Particularly likes Matt Campbell for Penn State after a rocky search process, calling him the obvious hire.
  • “Penn State was perhaps, well, definitely a signature, perhaps a couple hours away from Kalani Sitake being their guy. They thought he was their guy, which would have been a wild fit. But I think ultimately they got someone who they should have pursued right away: Matt Campbell.” (04:45)
  • Slightly lower on Whittingham due to timing/circumstances.

Matt Fortuna's Grade:

• B+ as well, especially with Chesney in the mix.
  • “I genuinely think… UCLA could end up being the best hire maybe in the country of the cycle”—on Bob Chesney. (07:35)
  • Raises questions if Campbell will outdo James Franklin's record, but sees it as a needed change.
  • “Pat Fitzgerald… it’s a complete 180 from the yes sir, no sir that he dealt with for 17 years at Northwestern. So I’m curious to see how that one plays out.” (09:45)

Bill Landis's Grade:

• B- overall.
  • Likes Campbell and Chesney, some concerns about Whittingham’s longevity and Fitzgerald’s fit at MSU.
  • “I have many questions about the fit of Pat Fitzgerald at Michigan State… I need to see it before I just kind of assume that he's built to handle everything that comes with being a head coach now in college football.” (11:10)

Memorable Moment:

• Matt pokes fun at the “Inside Zone MF.com” domain:
  • “Is that what the MF is for?”—Doug (03:37);
  • “You know what? I'll leave it open to interpretation.” —Matt

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2. Experience vs. Youth in Coaching Strategy (15:20–19:53)

• Big Ten opted for experienced coaches with proven power conference records.
• SEC is taking more chances with first-time head coaches.
• Matt makes the case that Big Ten’s “can't-miss” job openings (like PSU after Franklin) called for safe, experienced hires, not risky up-and-comers.
• “I've yet to see a guy who's won big at the Division 2 or FCS level, who hasn't then gone on to win big at the Power 4 level.” —Matt (17:00)
• Audrey notes that region and cultural fit play a role: “There was no way in hell Lane Kiffin was ever coming to central Pennsylvania.” (22:16)

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3. Assessing Big Ten Playoff Contenders (23:15–34:08)

Who’s "legit"?

• Matt: 3 clear playoff contenders (Ohio State, Indiana, Oregon); could see up to 7 that have a path if things break right: Penn State, Washington, Michigan, USC.
• Points to schedule quirks: “Penn State can go 10–2 at worst and get in.”
• Bill: Only 3 “feel good” picks: OSU, Oregon, Indiana.
• Audrey: Consensus top 3, but Penn State as a legit dark horse due to soft schedule and not playing the consensus top 3; says, “I can absolutely see a 10–2 Penn State team getting in.” (30:56)

Rant Segment (Doug, 26:56–29:18):

• Bemoans the overrating of SEC “middle-class” teams in national title odds vs. the competitive top of the Big Ten.
• “Why is it that six SEC teams are higher than the next Big Ten team after the top three?”

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4. Playoff Dark Horses: Who's This Year's Indiana? (34:56–44:54)

• Bill:
  • “My answer is Penn State, because I don't think anybody's thinking about Penn State as a playoff contender right now, but ... 10–2 in the Big Ten is going to get you in.” (36:42)
  • Freak speculation pick: UCLA (a la 2024 Indiana, due to new coach Bob Chesney and manageable schedule).
• Audrey:
  • Echoes Penn State as her dark horse (“the schedule is super soft,” 39:41).
• Matt:
  • “UCLA is the dark horse answer... They've got a great quarterback in Nico Iamaleava... 41 transfers, 10 from JMU. That schedule is very manageable.” (41:41)
  • Quick shoutout to USC for talent, less so for schedule.
• Doug:
  • Pitches Wisconsin due to new QB Colton Joseph and soft schedule after ND early: “If Wisconsin can steal one of these, I don't know...” (42:44)

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5. Is Indiana Here to Stay as a Yearly Playoff Contender? (48:12–54:33)

• Doug: “I might say 100 [percent]. I just think it's there... As long as Kurt Signetti is there.” (48:12)
• Audrey: 73%. Cites football’s inherent unpredictability via injuries as only true threat: “This sport is cruel... You do need some luck for things to go right.” (49:25)
• Matt: 98–99%. “As long as Kirk's [Signetti] there, there's no argument in my mind of how they can't be viewed as a contender for a Top 12 team every single year.” (50:40)
• Bill: 90%. Wonders how program handles future coordinator turnover, but “they're gonna be there… nearly impossible… to write any of that off” (51:11)
• Discussion about Indiana's culture shift and legitimacy as a new power.
  • Matt observes: “I think now that they've won it all, we'll finally see them get that national bump, if you will, in profile and in benefit of the doubt.” (52:39)

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6. Most Important Big Ten Players in 2026 (55:40–63:15)

Audrey:

• Nico Iamaleava (UCLA QB)
  • “This guy’s really good...I think when we look at this conference… don't forget about this guy because I think Nico is a special talent.” (55:40)

Matt:

• Coy Parish (Minnesota transfer Safety now at Oregon)
  • “I think he’s a guy who can change the game in all sorts of different ways... I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play a big role in at least one of Oregon’s big games.” (56:33)

Bill:

• Bryce Underwood (Michigan QB)
  • “You’re talking about a player with all the talent in the world … to very quickly put himself in the conversation with top five quarterbacks in the sport.” (57:45)
  • Shares Urban Meyer anecdote about Whittingham and Underwood’s potential leap with a real QB coach at Michigan.

Doug:

• Jayden Maeve (USC QB), Julian Sayin (Ohio State QB)
  • “If Jayden Maeve and USC knocks off one of the Big Three … this guy could be in the Heisman race.” (59:13)
  • “If Julian Sayin is just like, no, I'm the best quarterback in the country, that could happen and that would matter a lot to the Big Ten.” (61:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Matt Fortuna on the Big Ten’s approach:

  • “It's pretty much impossible to not have head coaching experience and walk into a program blindly and take it over in the Big Ten... For whatever reason, it's worked in the SEC, has not worked in the Big Ten.” (18:11)

• Audrey Snyder on Penn State’s search:

  • “Maybe they should have put me on the search committee. Perhaps I could have got like, a 12th job on Penn State search committee.” (05:21)

• Doug Lesmerises on Indiana's rise:

  • “I just don't know... what would knock Indiana out of this tier. As long as Kurt Signetti is there.” (48:12)

• Bill Landis on coordinator departures:

  • “That’ll be a real test for Kurt Signetti... But they’re so good at player evaluation, Sig has such a great handle on how to manage a season.” (51:11)

• Audrey Snyder on program luck:

  • “You do need some luck for things to go right... you get an injury at a weird time of the year, and all of a sudden you're going into the playoff without your quarterback.” (49:25)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Coaching hires discussion: 04:28–15:20
• Big Ten goes for experience: 15:20–19:53
• Playoff contenders debate: 23:15–34:08
• Playoff dark horses: 34:56–44:54
• Indiana Dynasty?: 48:12–54:33
• Most important players: 55:40–63:15

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Episode Tone & Style

• Knowledgeable, collegial, occasionally irreverent and open to playful ribbing, but always packed with deep CFB knowledge.
• Frequent jokes about age, credentialing, and the oddities of Big Ten and national college football culture.

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Summary Takeaways

• The Big Ten's coaching carousel leaned heavily on established names; Penn State, Michigan, MSU, and UCLA are betting on (mostly) proven veterans.
• Ohio State, Oregon, and Indiana are the consensus top tier, but Penn State, Washington, and even UCLA or Wisconsin have plausible (if unlikely) playoff paths.
• Indiana’s rise is viewed as sustainable for as long as Signetti is on the sideline—barring catastrophic injury or staff departures.
• The new era of Big Ten football is marked by veteran quarterbacks, talented transfers, and an open race beneath a dominant top three.
• Player-wise, rising stars at QB and key transfers at major programs will define the 2026 narrative.

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For fans seeking a big-picture, well-informed, but fun conversation about the Big Ten’s power shifts, this episode offers sharp takes, inside info, and plenty of angles to watch as the 2026 season unfolds.

Transcript

[Doug Les Maurice]

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[Bill Landis]

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[Doug Les Maurice]

I'm just excited for McDonald's for a limited time only.

[Matt Fortuna]

Presence of participation may vary.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Not dynamic delivery. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show, a new episode of around the Big Ten. It's not around the Shoe this week. Last week we did around the Shot, did some Ohio State basketball. This week we are going big picture outside two great college football Big Ten experts to help us understand where the league is. Right now, it's Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis joined by Audrey Snyder and Matt Fortuna. Audrey Snyder of Inside the Lions, thank you so much for sharing your time today. Just tell the folks, like who you are, what you do. Everyone's going to be excited that you're here, but if they want to make sure, they say, oh man, Audrey can't get enough of her. Where else can they find you? Audrey?

[Audrey Snyder]

I am on substack and as I think all of us are, I'm at Inside the Lions. It is wall to wall Penn State football coverage. So we've got the whole kind of Matt Campbell air covered. We've got a new staff, new quarterback, Rocco Beck that I'm sure we'll get into today. But yeah, I've covered Penn State since I was a student in 2010. Also around that same time, there were some other wonderful faces on this screen that were here at Penn State University. Don't worry, it wasn't Douglas. The other two folks. Doug was a little, a little out of his league there A little before. Before a little. Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay.

[Audrey Snyder]

No covered State for a while. Happy to be here with you guys.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Well, thanks to Audrey. She's been on with us before, of course, and we're happy to have her back. And then Matt Fortuna, he covers national college football. He covers Big Ten football. He covers Notre Dame. Matt Fortuna from the Inside zone. You cover everything, man.

[Matt Fortuna]

Yeah, a little bit of everything. Happy to be Part of a podcast network with you three lovely people as well. At five Star Saturdays, I have the independent Nerd Aim focused podcast and I have on substack, like everyone else here, the Inside zone. Inside zone MF.com you can subscribe there. Mostly Big Ten, Midwest nerd aim coverage, but a little bit of national football, college football coverage as well. As Audrey mentioned, Bill, her and I were all at the student paper at one glorious time together. Bill and I, we don't have our diplomas behind us, probably because we were blessed to have the signature of one Graham Spanier, the former president who went to jail shortly after handing each of us those diplomas. I'm not sure if that's a cause and effect or if things just fell apart when Bill and I both graduated at that school, but we'll need to get into that here. They're also fun fact for your Ohio State listeners. I covered, excuse me, I covered nerd [e-mail] for six years. I was initially hired to cover ohio [e-mail] for six years. Off air, we could get into why that fell apart, but I think it worked out best for everybody.

[Doug Les Maurice]

What a tease, man.

[Matt Fortuna]

Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Wow. I, I, I didn't know that. That's, that's fascinating. Think of that, Landis. We could have Matt Fortuna around us every day. So in college football with an attitude, Matt, because It's the inside zone.mother effers.

[Audrey Snyder]

Stack.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Is that what the MF is for?

[Matt Fortuna]

Their name fans like to say? Marcus Freeman. You know what? I'll leave it open. Interpretation.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay, so we're going to talk about five Big Ten topics here. We'll get into Ohio State. We'll get into Indiana. We'll get into Penn State. We'll get into Oregon. We'll get into all the teams and the players that matter the most. But we're going to start. Audrey Snyder with you and three hires made by Big Ten football programs this offseason. Matt Campbell at Penn State, who you have been covering. Kyle Whittingham at Michigan, Pat Fitzgerald at Michigan State. These are three veteran guys who had coached for a long time in the Power 4. Had succeeded in the Power 4. What is your overall combined grade for these three Big Ten football coaching hires this offseason?

[Audrey Snyder]

So let me preface this by saying I am an adjunct instructor here at Penn State, so I do a lot of grading. I believe in partial credit. I believe in the ability to improve, as my students can tell you. Oh. However, Doug, I think this is a solid B plus hiring cycle. And I say that because I'm a big fan of the Matt Campbell hire, especially the way that search was going for a while there. I'm thinking, oh, boy, like, Penn State, this is gonna get really, really ugly. It got very ugly. And then, sure enough, literally, the plane lands, and adpecraft is getting, like, a hero's welcome as Matt Campbell steps off the plane. Penn State was perhaps, well, definitely a signature, perhaps a couple hours away from Kalani Satake being their guy. They thought he was their guy, which would have been a wild fit. But I think ultimately they got someone who they should have pursued right away. Matt Campbell. When I came out with my list of, hey, here's three candidates I'd go after. The day after James Franklin was fired, Matt Campbell was on the list. So maybe. Maybe they should have put me on the search committee. Perhaps I could have got, like, a 12th job on Penn State search committee, but Pat Kraft ran that thing solo. So I. So I like the Campbell hire, which elevates the grade here a little bit. Fitzgerald is great. I. I think that, to me, is one of those. You're like, all right, this is going to be cool to see him back in the Big Ten, see what happens there. I'm okay with the Whittingham hire, which I'm sure Ohio State fans are probably feeling some sort of way about, because I think given the timing of everything there, that was the best they could do. Like, I think had this a normal search under, you know, full scope of circumstances of, hey, like, you know, you. Things play out differently. There's not a whole saga that I'm sure books and movies and TV shows are going to be written about and produced in the coming years.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Speaking of guys going to jail.

[Audrey Snyder]

Well, yeah, so we have that. So I think, given the timing of all that, Whittingham was the best that they could do. I'm intrigued there. So the Whittingham hire drags my grade down a little bit. But again, I still think we're looking at a B plus.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Am I.

[Audrey Snyder]

Am I being too soft of a grader?

[Doug Les Maurice]

No, Professor Snyder, I think those are all reasonable. I. I don't think anyone's gonna, like, have a problem with that. I think they would accept that grade. Matt Fortuna.

[Audrey Snyder]

You.

[Doug Les Maurice]

You grading harder. You're grading softer. Where are you?

[Matt Fortuna]

I'm also an adjunct at DePaul, teaching a sports podcasting class, of all things. So maybe how did we get these jobs? It's a great question. Well, we're not all Northwestern grads. We couldn't get jobs there. That's why I met Nepal. Even though everyone I feel like who speaks to the class, including two people who are on the show not named Doug, who have spoken are for the most part Northwestern grads. So I'm available brother again and I don't this isn't the rag on Doug show. However, it just dawned on speaking because I initially had a B for this hiring grade. You forgot Bob Chessy, who I think might be the best hire this entire cycle.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Oh my God, that's right. So I'm going not a professor. That's why I'm not a professor. So I forgot Bob Chesney. So there's four. There's Bob Chesney. Add him in.

[Matt Fortuna]

I had B. I'll go B plus because I I genuinely think and I I could be wrong here because UCLA has been a hot mess for a while. I think that could end up being the best hire maybe in the country of the cycle if things go well and the schedule sets up for him to at least not get killed in year one. I think Campbell is a great hire. I also had him on my initial list of candidates that Penn State should talk to. The only reason I'm not jumping for joy and saying it's A plus plus at the end of the day, when we look up at his record, will it be better than James Franklin's was at Penn State? And that's not to say Penn State didn't need to make a change and that they didn't need a new voice and that there won't be a lot of great things that happen now with a breath of fresh air there. But I don't know if he's going to do better than James Franklin did there. But I do think it's a good hire. Kyle Whittingham, to Audrey's point, I think, is the higher Michigan needed at this moment in time. He was probably the best plausible option that late in the cycle. My one fear, if you will, with him is that's a place that chews up and spits out people who are not fits. And this is a guy who's never coached east of Utah. He's not your traditional fit. So I do wonder a little bit about that, as I would have with Sataki at Penn State. In retrospect, it would have been pretty funny to see those two guys from the Holy War move over to Big Ten countries. The Big Ten rivals in one cycle path is Gerald I'm fascinated by because he's been out of it for a couple of years he was as well respected as anybody in the business. But he went 4 and 20 his last two years at Northwestern, which has been much better than that. So since he left, I also, I think he'll adjust and adapt to the Nil era, the Portal era. Michigan State is obviously supporting him in that program financially. I will say he's another guy who spent pretty much his entire career at one school in one city that happened to be his home city. And at Northwestern, as we can see from Doug right here, you're recruiting and coaching the best of the best, mostly choir boys, Michigan State, Sparta Dogs. Sometimes you got to go to the other side of the tracks to get those guys who are pissed off they didn't get looked at by Michigan or Ohio State or a bigger program. Sometimes there may be some off field issues there and usually that's what Michigan State's at their best. And I'm not saying Pat Fitzgerald cannot coach that type of kid. I'm just saying it's going to be a complete 180 from the yes sir, no sir that he dealt with for 17 years at Northwestern. So I'm curious to see how, how that one plays out. And then I mentioned at the top of this segment, I think Bob Chesney is the home run of all home runs. I'm a little surprised ucla, UCLA was able to get him. I, I, I don't know what the ceiling on UCLA is. I'm hesitant to put a ceiling on anybody after seeing what Kurt Zenetti, another guy who came from jmu, did at Indiana. But I do think Bob Chesney can get UCLA as close to that ceiling as possible. So I'll go B plus all around.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Wow.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Anyone else? I forgot Landis that you know of.

[Bill Landis]

I was trying to think as Matt was talking. I think, I think we got all four of them. Yeah. Okay.

[Audrey Snyder]

You didn't get Penn State head coach Brian Hartline. That was the one we were hearing a lot about earlier. I was like, it's not happening.

[Doug Les Maurice]

But Bill, what's your grade?

[Bill Landis]

B minus. I think similar to, to everyone else here. I really do like the Matt Campbell higher. I, I do feel somewhat inclined to like not give Penn State a super high grade on that because of the process that led them to Matt Campbell. But, but I do think they ended up with, with quite a good football coach there. I think I like Whittingham more than I like Fitzgerald, if I'm being honest. I, I, I have many questions about the fit of Pat Fitzgerald at Michigan State. I, I frankly don't even know if he's capable of kind of succeeding in what college football is right now. He was only out of it for, for what, four years. But it changed a lot in the, in the time that he was away. And, and I guess I need to see it before I just kind of assume that he's, he's built to handle everything that comes with being a head coach now in college football because those are just things he didn't have to deal with at Northwestern. And from what I know of him, he doesn't strike me as someone who's, I don't know, going to be super gung ho about, about a lot of it. My only pause with Whittingham is, is there, is there enough left in the tank? Like, I, I don't, I don't know that it's a bad fit necessarily, especially the brand of football that he wants to play. I think that fits in quite nicely with Michigan wants to do. And I love that he's bringing his offensive coordinator, Jason Beck, and he got Jay Hill from byu. Like, I think, you know, those are home run coordinator additions and, and Michigan can, you know, talent shop with, with the best of them. I think it's just the question of is he on the downslope and if he is, like, how fast is, is that going to happen for him? It was nice to see him bounce back with the season that Utah had last year, but, you know, they were pretty bad the couple years before that, especially the, the one year before that. So I'm not entirely sure what to make of that. I do. I like Chesney too. I like, like Matt. I don't know what UCLA is or is going to become, but I, I kind of thought Penn State should have looked at Chesney pretty hard. I don't know whether or not they did. I thought that would have been a great hire for Penn State. So I, I really like two of them. I really like Campbell and I really like Chesney. I'm pretty much there with, with Whittingham and I kind of don't like the, the fits higher at all. So I'll go B minus.

[Audrey Snyder]

So they. So Penn State. If you go back and look at the timing of the Chesney hire getting announced, it was later on than it should have been because he like his side, was hoping again Pennsylvania guy that Penn State would continue to bungle the search and that they'd get him. So it sounds like Bill, you're saying that the Kyle Whittingham working out videos in the weight room they're not inspiring you to see an older gentleman moving some weights like that. It's not. You're making it sound like the guy's washed. Okay.

[Bill Landis]

No, no. He could beat me up for sure. For sure.

[Matt Fortuna]

That man's forearms in person are like the eighth wonder of the world. I mean, is insane. I was. I remember being at the Pac12 championship one of the years they won it, and he's just walking around post game on the field with the trophy and I mean, he's what, 65, 66, and these. It's unbelievable. Like, that guy clearly has not missed a workout in the last 40 years.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Nice. Nice. And that matters for Big Ten media days.

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Audrey Snyder]

Well, and. And Bob Chesney's a lot shorter than I thought he is. Do you guys. Have you guys not observed that he's not tall?

[Matt Fortuna]

I don't know.

[Bill Landis]

He does appear to be.

[Audrey Snyder]

He looks really short. Yeah, that's. This is what I'm looking for. If you get in big Ten media days back in Chicago, I want to see Whittingham's forearms. Bring a tape measure for Bob Chesney. Scott. Tall he is.

[Matt Fortuna]

Okay, I need Winningham to come in on a motorcycle like he did on the McAfee Show.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Oh, my God.

[Bill Landis]

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[Doug Les Maurice]

So one of the things I find interesting is that, you know, Chesney had not. Has not coached in the Power Four before. The other three guys here in the Big Ten have a combined 48 years of coaching in the Power Four, all with winning records. Pat Fitzgerald was 110 and 101 in 17 years at Northwestern. Matt Campbell 72 and 55 and 10 years at Iowa State. Kyle Whittingham 177 and 88 and 21 years at Utah. They went with so much experience here, everybody, right?

[Bill Landis]

Where.

[Doug Les Maurice]

As opposed to, for instance, the SEC hired six coaches this offseason. The only one of those six who's ever coached in the power four as a head coach is Lane Kiffin, who left one program to go to the other. Otherwise, they're. They're taking coaches from the American. They're taking Will Stein and Pete Golding, his first time head coaches. Like, I think that's like, very interesting to me. But yet, for instance, Matt, you're most excited about Chesney, right? Kurt Signetti had not been a head coach in the power 4. Is this smart by the Big 10 to sort of getting tried and true guys who, you know, were winning in the power four and maybe are elevating a level. Utah to Michigan, Iowa State to Penn State. Right. Northwestern to Michigan State. Is that smart or are they missing out on bigger swings by taking sort of obvious candidates that were right in front of them?

[Matt Fortuna]

So I think it's smart. One, in the case of Penn State, you're firing a guy who is a play away from the national championship game. So you need. You can't take a risk, so to speak. You need a guy who's done it in Matt Campbell's case, and I've spoken to people who have interviewed him at other jobs, other big jobs, and they all say the same thing. What appealed, what was appealing about Matt Campbell to us was not just how good he's doing at Iowa State, which has been a graveyard for coaches, how he also did it at Toledo. So he's done it at two different levels and therefore there's a bigger body of work. In Michigan's case, we went over it with Kyle Whittingham. I think that was the best you could do in that period of time. And Pat Fitzgerald's another guy who again, we'll see. I think the jury's still a little bit out on him at Michigan State, especially with what Michigan State kind of fell into the last couple years on the field. But Chesney reminds me of Campbell in the sense of he's done it. I mean, he did it what D3 D2, FCS and JMU and to me. And I, I, yeah, I did not see Kirk winning national title Indiana. Let's make that clear. However, I've yet to see a guy who's won big at the Division 2 or FCS level, who hasn't then gone on to win big at the Power 4 level, whether that's Kaylin DeBoer, Willie Fritz, Chris Kleiman. Help. Brian Kelly and Jim Harbaugh got their starts as head coaches at San Diego in Grand Valley State. Yeah, Lance Leipold. That's what I was forgetting as well. And I just think you can't replace that experience. I'll throw us back to you because I wrote this a couple years ago and no one believes me for whatever reason. The SEC for as good as they are at football, allegedly. That was for you, Doug.

[Audrey Snyder]

Well, we don't say that on this show.

[Matt Fortuna]

They get coaches, even in Kirby Smart's case, who had never been head coaches before, who therefore become great head coaches at Blue Bloods. Can you. Since 1990, can you name me the Big Ten head coaches who had never been head coaches before, who were successful. And this excludes internal promotions such as Ryan Day, Brett Bielema, Pat Fitzgerald, like fresh hires from other programs. So, like Orion Walters, for example, great example of how it didn't work. How many have been successful? And. And honestly, you. Well, I want to hear what you guys say.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Two, but I can't take it.

[Audrey Snyder]

Anybody.

[Matt Fortuna]

Exactly, exactly two. And that's including Bill o', Brien, who only lasted two years, left after two years. Barry Alvarez is the other one. Even Kirk Barents was the head coach at Maine, which people can laugh and say it's Maine, but you were a CEO of a program where you were responsible for everything like it is, just. And maybe you could throw Dan Lanning in there. He started in the Pac12 when he came from Georgia as a DC but it's pretty much impossible to not have head coaching experience and walk into a program blindly and take it over in the Big Ten. It's been true everywhere, no matter how great some of these hires have looked on paper. I know Ryan Walters. Like, he probably would have got Colorado if Coach prime wasn't available. Like people loved him. It is then virtually impossible to be a successful head coach in the Big Ten, whether it's a blue blood or not, without any of that experience. Unless, again, if you're Ryan Day, Brett Bielema, Wisconsin, Pat Fitzgerald, where you're kind of groomed for that job and already have it. So for whatever reason, it's worked in the sec has not worked in the Big Ten. And that's why I think you've got to go with the experience if you're the big.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Yeah, okay.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Les Maurice]

And it's interesting, Audrey. Like, I. Everyone does coaching lists all the time. I was just, like, screwing around on the Internet looking for coaching lists. I found the 2021 head coaching list. Best head coaches in college football. Kyle Whittingham, 18. Pat Fitzgerald, 10. Matt Campbell, 8. And the thing that I find interesting about, like, those three guys, I think, were always respected as among the best coaches in college football. And I think people kind of wondered, man, if they just maybe took a step up to a place where they actually could compete for national championships, what might they look like? And now here it is, happening right.

[Matt Fortuna]

In front of us.

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah, to the Campbell point. You know, you look at the jobs that he was a candidate for before, right? Detroit Lions wanted this guy, which my packers fandom says, good. Glad it didn't happen. Keep Dan Campbell there for as long as you can. On top of that, you look at usc, which was in the mix for him at one point as well. Before Lincoln Riley Campbell told a small group of reporters the day he was hired, we met with him, you know, kind of off to the side after he does the intro presser. And they. Yes, really secret location in the Beaver Stadium locker room for the home team. And they had the lowest payroll, essentially, last year at Iowa State. So you look at that roster and you say, huh, okay, like, you were able to be product. Now, they were ravaged by injuries, too. But you look at what they were able to do in terms of getting guys back even the year before that. You look at the receivers that they've had that they've turned out to the NFL, especially the guys with the Texans, right? They were able to build a program and keep guys in this era despite not having a lot of money to offer them. Like, these are guys who are going to bank on their recommendations and their evaluations of prospects. So I think in that sense, you say, all right, if you can do it at Iowa State, why can't you do it at Penn State? And now, I mean, we're going to see this year how it transfers, because you get 24. I mean, the Penn State brought in 40 transfers, 24 of them coming from Iowa State. And it's like, I know the Penn State fan base is like, are these guys good enough to be here? You know, we're gonna find out. I mean, that, to me, is. Is the compelling point. But to the. To Matt's point, About the sec. Here's the other thing that we know. We've got some unique situations here in Big Ten country. There was no way in hell Lane Kiffin was ever coming to central Pennsylvania. Right. And I know that the SEC isn't all these wonderful locations either.

[Bill Landis]

Hot yoga.

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah. Definitely not around here. Right. I mean, it's like, you look at these locations and geographically, how appealing is central Pennsylvania. Right. To certain coaches that are kind of born and bred in the SEC footprint and in warmer, better climates. So I think that is kind of one of those elements where, like, you take this Iowa State staff, which has been so funny to hear because you bring most of them here, and they're like, oh, my God, the weather is actually nicer here. It's not as windy, and the restaurant scene is awesome. Not once have they complained about the Runway here. They're like, wow, this tiny airport. This is great. We had to. We had to drive to Des Moines to get to our away games.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Audrey Snyder]

So I think, like, you have that fit, too, that, you know, Campbell always strikes me as a Midwest guy, Ohio guy, that fits into a place like this that doesn't fit in the sec.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

You're doing some great work for the State College Chamber of Commerce. How about that new slogan? Better than Ames. Yeah.

[Audrey Snyder]

I like it.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Job. All right.

[Audrey Snyder]

Maybe 15.

[Doug Les Maurice]

15. Let's get to question number two. Matt, we'll start with you. How many Big Ten teams should be viewed as legit playoff contenders? Now, we're going to have a dark horse discussion later, so, I mean, maybe your dark horse is totally legit, but maybe, like, this is like that.

[Matt Fortuna]

Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

No, for real, I. I can see an actual path to the playoff that isn't crazy. How deep would you go in the big 10?

[Matt Fortuna]

So three legitimate right off the top of the head. The same three that made it each of the last two years. Indiana, Ohio State. In Oregon, I've got four that I think could realistically make it on top of that, but I don't know if I'd put money on that. I mean, Penn State schedule is designed where I think as long as they don't screw up, they go 10 and 2 at worst. And I know that's a big leap of faith to say about a team with a completely new coaching staff and roster, but to see what Penn State Drew vs. What Ohio State and USC drew, for example, as far as they're both Big Ten teams with Big Ten schedules, I mean, it's night and day. I mean, coaches are going to be complaining about Penn State all year if they get in at 10 and 2, but if they go 10 and 2 in the Big 10, I think they'll get in. I think USC and Michigan deserve to be talked about as playoff teams. I don't know USC in particular, that schedule is a murders rower. I just don't think they're going to escape with less than three or four losses even if everything goes right. I would say similar for Michigan. I think Washington's a team I would keep an eye on. I think their schedule's fairly manageable, you know, relatively speaking. I think Damon Williams is that good. It'll be interesting if he, if he has that breakout year that I think a lot of us expect him to have. Yeah, what's that like? Right? Like I think that's a guy who probably more than any other player, at least publicly had to win back over his locker room, given the shenanigans that happened where he resigned, then decommitted and then re signed again and dropped his agent or his agent dropped him, whatever it was. But yeah, I think Jed Fish is a very good football coach. I think Jada Lamar's a nice back that they got out of Oregon out of the portal. I think that's a team that at least under Jed Fish, kind of like at Arizona, they're very good at winning the games they're supposed to win. Now maybe they don't always punch up the way they should against the Oregons of the world or the Ohio States of the world, but I think the combination of experience year three with Jed Fish and that schedule, there is a playoff path there. That Penn State Washington game I think in particular is a very interesting game that could maybe possibly be a swing game for both as it comes to playoff hopes. So I, I've got seven to keep an eye on. Three, three that I think are will probably be in no matter what.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana, usc, Michigan, Penn State, Washington, all mentioned by you. And again you're looking at the, at the odds right now. Three of the top five in the national championship odds, the playoff odds are now are Ohio State, Indiana and Oregon. So I think obviously we understand those three teams are viewed that way. Bill, how deep does your list go?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I'm just a three if we're talking legit playoff contenders. I don't disagree with anything Matt laid out there in terms of the teams that could find their way into the conversation. But as things stand right now, like placing a bet on which Big Ten teams were most likely to make the playoff, I think it's it's the top three. Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana, and then a pretty big gap to the next team that the national title odds reflect that we'll see what it looks like when the playoff odds come out. They'll be not, not exactly the same, but for whatever reason, like the way the schedule's broken out for, for some of these teams, new coaches, roster turnover, like, I think the only three that you can feel good about are Ohio State, Indiana and Oregon.

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

So I asked this question in part so I could rant about something. So you look at the national championship odds and the top five, Right. The, the sort of, the consensus five, Bill, as you just said, is that Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana, Notre Dame is in there. Notre Dame, as this morning when I looked, is actually the favorite. And then Texas is the one SEC team that is in there. So, so at that point, the top five, it's three from the Big Ten and, and one from the SEC. By the national championship odds on FanDuel, there are then six SEC teams before you get to the next Big Ten team in the national championship odds. And you go through Georgia, lsu, Texas A and M, Alabama, Ole Miss and Oklahoma before you get to USC at 40 to 1 and Michigan at 45 to 1. And my question would be, why?

[Audrey Snyder]

Why is that?

[Bill Landis]

Because the top, because the top three in the Big Ten are so much clearly better than the rest of the league.

[Audrey Snyder]

So it's the fine bomb.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Bomb strength. But it's this I agree with. That hurts the middle.

[Bill Landis]

Yes.

[Matt Fortuna]

I mean, oh, should Ole Miss be there? Like, we don't know where the quarterback's gonna be yet. Yeah. Trinidad Shameless is eligible right now as we record this on February 17th. Maybe he's not come. Yeah, week one. It's hard to keep up with the timeline of that. But yeah, I mean, I, I do think the middle of the pack of the SEC absolutely gets the benefit of the doubt done when it comes to odds and preseason prognostications.

[Audrey Snyder]

So, you know, history stacked against us here in this conference. You know that, you know, the world, the world wants what they want with the sec. And they're still, unfortunately, view us differently.

[Matt Fortuna]

There was a five or six year stretch where there was every year there was a Big Ten team, I think, that finished in the top 15 or something that was unranked in the preseason. Like, there's usually one or two teams that come out of nowhere, and that doesn't mean they're going to be playoff teams, but they're a lot better than anyone anticipates. The Way Illinois was two years ago, the way Indiana obviously has been each of the last two years. And that's. That's what makes Indiana so impressive. My opinion is, like, it's kind of been an entrenched hierarchy in the Big Ten, unlike the sec, and to break into that top tier has been incredibly difficult. We've seen, like, Michigan State come close. We've seen Wisconsin in some years come close. Indiana just flipped the whole thing on its head the last two years, and now we're talking about them as a team to be in the big Tech.

[Doug Les Maurice]

But I do think I would do it more like Matt. I have the same seven as Matt, because I don't think anything. I don't think it. It would take an unbelievable, like, I can't believe this happened. Nobody saw this coming kind of season from USC or Michigan or Penn State or Washington to have them be in the playoff mix. Right. Like, Matt, you talk. It's funny. Washington's last two games are Indiana and Oregon. Like, they could be at 9 and 1 before they hit those two. But that means, like. Like they're a legit playoff contender. And again, to me, like, playoff contender. Like, you know, does that mean you make the playoff? No, but, like, you're. You're in it the whole way. Like, you're, You're. You're legitimately a possibility deep into the season. I think Penn State could absolutely do that. We'll talk about, I think, USC schedule maybe a little bit more. That is going to be difficult, I think, with Bryce Underwood back and. And some of the pieces that Michigan retained, Andrew Marsh and. And guys like that with Kyle Whitting. Like, I don't think it's. I don't think it would be, like, wild or crazy to think of that top seven as. As being in the mix by the time we get there. So, Audrey, how. How long is your list, if you want to go ahead?

[Matt Fortuna]

Michigan was in the mix till the last game of the season last year, and they weren't a very good football team.

[Doug Les Maurice]

So, yeah, they were a contender. Yeah, they didn't make it, but they were in it.

[Audrey Snyder]

So we're looking at contenders, right? And I think we have a consensus top three here, and I'm with you guys on that. Penn State does not play any of those consensus top three teams that we're saying. Right? So Matt says, okay, if they go 10 and 2, which Penn State fans know that, they know that deal all too well. Ten and two, Nittany Lions, that's kind of the. The forever thing around here.

[Matt Fortuna]

However.

[Audrey Snyder]

I, I get it. You have a new roster. Rocco Beckt is coming off multiple surgeries this off season. He's going to be limited for part of spring ball. He's going to start throwing here a little bit later on. You've got USC as your marquee game. That's in Beaver Stadium. Like, that's in October. So that's probably a whiteout candidate. I think it should be the whiteout, but I'm not a TV exec, so, you know, what do I know? And then the Washington game that Matt mentioned is out there, believe early November. So you have those two games and then you've got Michigan, of course, at the Big House again. What does Michigan look like under Kyle Whittingham? What the heck is Bryce Underwood look like? To me, that's the one where I'm just like, I have no idea. So I think we say that and you say, yeah, like there's this defined group of three teams, which is still wild to say that Indiana is in that. Like, I'm still. My mind has not comprehended all of that's transpired with the Hoosiers here in the last couple years. But you say all of that and I'm like, yeah, I can absolutely see a 10 and 2 Penn State team getting in. And then once they get in, what happens? I don't know. But I think that's kind of where you look at it, where you say, okay, Michigan's still going to be in the hunt. Washington definitely has the potential as well. Penn State's in that mix too. So I'm intrigued. I think that we're covering a deeper conference than we're used to in some regards. But no doubt this is a top heavy, top heavy, heavy conference, with the Hoosiers certainly entrenched in that. Still.

[Matt Fortuna]

Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health.

[Bill Landis]

This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with BetterHelp, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack. But people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to visit betterhelp, that's betterhelp.com89 to get started.

[Doug Les Maurice]

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know, having a trusted.

[Bill Landis]

Partner makes all the difference. That's why Hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will.

[Doug Les Maurice]

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[Matt Fortuna]

You can end your day knowing they've.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Got safety well in hand.

[Bill Landis]

Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger.

[Doug Les Maurice]

For the ones who get it done. Bill, are you girding yourself for me to be complaining about sec depth vs big 10 depth for the next 8 months?

[Bill Landis]

Pretty fired up about it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think. You're not. You're not. I don't know that you're wrong, but I also like, to me it is quite obvious why the odds are the way they are. It's because, I don't know, if you ask 10 people who's going to win the SEC, you might get like eight different answers, right? And I don't know that if you ask 10 people who's going to win the Big Ten, you're going to hear three teams at most and you're probably only going to hear probably two. Ohio State, Oregon. Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay.

[Matt Fortuna]

Actually, you know what, let me, let.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Me ask that question like very quickly. Let me throw that in here, Bill. Who do you think is going to win the Big Ten if you had to pick right now?

[Bill Landis]

Oregon.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Audrey, who would you say?

[Audrey Snyder]

Ducks.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Matt?

[Matt Fortuna]

Oregon. Because of the schedule.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Interesting. Okay. Yeah, I might say Ohio State, but I wonder, like, are we, how, how close are we getting to the point of like, Oregon's very good, Dan Lanning's very good. But are, are we sure they can get over the top kind of conversation? I don't know that we're. I don't know.

[Matt Fortuna]

I think Ohio State could lose the Indiana. Hell, they could lose the Texas and it wouldn't matter. And then I think they actually beat Oregon because the game's at the shoe, so. And they would win the tiebreaker at least as far as the one seed. So I'll go Ohio State.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Actually, I'll be very curious how like Oregon is sort of viewed by everybody this year. All right, let's go to the playoff dark horse. So just however you want to interpret this, like, you know, two years ago this would have been Indiana as the greatest answer of all time. Who is your Big Ten playoff dark horse?

[Bill Landis]

Bill, I think my threshold's a little different than, than you guys based off what you were talking because, like, my answer is Penn State, because I don't think anybody's thinking about Penn State as a playoff contender right now, but they bring Some quality over from Iowa State, like the. The roster is turning over pretty drastically as Audrey laid out. And that is not a roadblock, but it is, it is something to overcome and it's. There's no guarantee for even as good of a coach as Matt Campbell is that the Penn State will do that this year. But we have a veteran quarterback like Rocco back to understand your offense. You're sort of just like porting over everything about the Iowa State system and you have enough player wise, coming with you, I think, to help implement it. It does give you a bit of a head start. And then the schedules, you know, it's not a cakewalk, but I think you like pencil in eight wins pretty easily. And then like the remaining four, it's like, I think they're probably going to win two of these. So then I don't like like 10 and two in the big 10. I just think is going to, is going to get you in, as Matt said. So Penn State at the moment is 70 to one to win the national title. I don't know what they'll be to make, to make the playoff. But like I put. I think I said, I don't know if I said it on, on this show or another show. Like I put, I put three early bets in on national title winners for next year, Penn State, Michigan and Virginia Tech, because it would be funny. So I think, I think my answer for this is Penn State. And if, you know, if want to get really wonky with it, I've also said before, like UCLA, because why the hell not, right? Indiana was 3 and 9 and they made the playoff. UCLA was 3 and 9 and their schedule is not that daunting either. And like they have a quarterback and Nico back and they kept in a couple other key pieces and they're bringing over the best of what was available from, from James Madison to come to this team. And he's kind of doing the Signetti blueprint. I don't know that lightning can strike twice necessarily, but there are, there are worse speculative bets, I think, than to put a dollar or two on UCLA to make the playoff this year because who knows? Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

And Audrey, I keep wondering about this. If Kurt Signetti can smush together Indiana and JMU and make a playoff team, why can't Matt Campbell smush together Penn State and Iowa State make a playoff team?

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah, I mean, that is like, that's the blueprint. And it was interesting.

[Bill Landis]

Was there enough Penn State left over?

[Audrey Snyder]

There's, I mean, there's some, there's some here. I Mean, I think the interesting thing is like they were able to keep linebacker Tony Ros. I mean, obviously this was a team too. And I think this gets, this gets lost a little bit in the Campbell discussion. Penn State was resetting after last year whether they were a playoff team or a dumpster fire. And unfortunately for them, they were the latter. But I mean, you were going to lose all these guys to the draft anyway. Aller Singleton, Katron Allen, so like a reset was coming either way. But talking with Penn State's coaches, I guess it was two weeks ago at this point. Terry Smith, who got a lot of notoriety last year as the interim head coach, a lot of people, I mean, Terry's Penn State guy been here forever, but really kind of one, I think the more broad fan base over later in the year. And he said, you know, kind of feels like Kurt Signetti and what he was able to do in Indiana with the JMU guys with what we're doing here. So, yeah, that's definitely a parallel that Penn State is trying to make right now. Whether or not it hap. It happens, we'll see. But the other part of this too, and where does USC fit into this picture here in this equation? That to me is the other kind of interesting thing. And then you look at it from the Penn State perspective and you say, all right, well, you were able to go out and get Denton Lynn, their, their defensive coordinator, who's Penn State guy. So you bring him into Matt Campbell's staff and what does that do to usc? Are we back talking about USC defenses being, you know, a red flag again? I don't know. But yeah, this is very much like Penn State would be my dark horse player, playoff pick just because the schedule is super soft. As Bill pointed to, you have a quarterback, so you're just running literally the same thing there with essentially an on field coach with Rocco Beck. Like that's the thing. He's got his receivers with him, he's got his tight ends with him. You add an Andrew Rapier. I'm a little still curious about what they do with this offensive line and the defensive line. But yeah, this is, I think too going along with a dark horse. This is a Penn State defense that I would not be surprised at all if it's better this year than it was last year when most of the team couldn't understand what Jim Knowles wanted him to do.

[Doug Les Maurice]

You guys know that. So you're. So you two are both picking Penn State as your dark horse. I'm going to go ahead, Matt. We'll get to you right now because I. You're dying to say UCLA also. I know you are, Bill.

[Matt Fortuna]

Bill. Took like every word out of my mouth. Easy answer here.

[Audrey Snyder]

Did.

[Matt Fortuna]

And I think UCLA is the dark horse answer. And just not to, you know, belabor the point, I would add to the Penn State stuff, and I know it's a huge roster turnover, but one Rocco, back to my opinions, automatically the best quarterback they've had since Trace McSorley. And maybe he'll be better than Trace McSorley who won a Big Ten title there and at the end of last year. And again, everything that could have gone wrong for Penn State in theory, went wrong. You look at like Vegas power ratings, all these advanced metrics. They were a top 15 football team. So, like, they were so much better than that 76 record would indicate. Now you've got actual structure and organization and a coach who's on his P's and Q's and a very manageable schedule. And yeah, I think 10 and 2 is very realistic. And if you go 10 and 2, you're in the playoff. I mean, just go back to your point earlier, Dog. I mean, I mentioned Michigan, USC was in the playoff race until they lost to Oregon. And shoot, if they just don't screw up at Illinois. They're in the playoff because they're a 10 and 2 Big 10 team whose only losses are on the road to Oregon and Notre Dame, which there's no shame in either one of those losses. So usc, I think, I wouldn't call them a dark, dark horse because they're a blue blood. I think that's a very good roster. They were a lot better last year than I thought they would be coming in. And I think they'll be better again this year. I just look at that schedule and I, I have a hard time, especially, you know, not to play advocate to Lincoln Riley, but going to Penn State and going to Rutgers, like, how much is he going to complain about traveling three times, twice this year? And how much did we hear him say? I think it was at the end of last year where he's like, finally all the pieces are in place for us to be who we are. It's like, yeah, did Kirk Signetti ever say that at Indiana? And yet we hear about a reset at usc, Southern California, like, I don't want to hear any of that. So I have paused there with usc, which is all the external stuff. I do think that's a good roster. And then as Bill said, I mean, if you're going to, like, just Say, why not? I mean, ucla, they've got the JMU pipeline, kind of like Kirk S. In Indiana did. They've got a great quarterback, Nico Iamaliava. I believe they brought in 41 transfers, 10 of whom came from JMU. Again, similar to, I think the 13 that followed Signetti to Indiana for that first year. And that schedule is very manageable. I mean, if Chesney's everything we think he could be and he wins all these close games and they stay healthy, I mean, I'm looking at schedule now at Oregon, at Michigan. Those are the only two where I'm like, I can't really. Maybe Michigan, but I can't really paint a path to victory there. I think they could beat USC at home in the finale, especially if there's real stakes in that game. That's a rivalry game. Everything else, I mean, at Maryland, Purdue at home, Wisconsin, Michigan State at home, at Minnesota, Illinois at home. Again, these are not automatic wins when you're ucla, but the opportunity is there to make a run and shoot. Maybe you could cash out in November on that ticket before, yeah, they play that Michigan game or that USC game. I, I just think if we're going to say why not and pick a team that fits that profile. UCLA is it?

[Doug Les Maurice]

Yeah, my why not team, and I've said this on a couple shows, is Wisconsin because they have a quarterback in Colton Joseph, the ODU transfer, 2600 passing yards last year, a thousand rushing yards. If they can get some health at quarterback. I'm very curious about that. Abusama, who we like from Iowa State at running back, Kevin Haywood, I think was one of the more devastating injuries in the Big Ten to lose their like five star starting left tackle before the season started last year. If he's back, that's a big deal for them. And they have like a really manageable back half of the schedule after a really tough schedule last year that included Alabama. But they open in Lambeau Field against Notre Dame and we saw Notre Dame's first two games, call it of the 2025 season. Call it like impacted. They were so impactful for the whole playoff race. I'm not, I'm, I'm not there yet. Right in the house.

[Matt Fortuna]

The teacher and the student.

[Doug Les Maurice]

I mean like the, all of that. And like Luke Fickle has not been great with that stuff in the past. Right. With some of that. When, when there's personal stuff involved with him, I don't know that his teams rise to the occasion, but I don't know if you're Going to get him, try to get him early. They also play Penn State in September and those are probably their two toughest games. But if Wisconsin can steal one of those, I don't know. Like I. They've been so hurt at quarterback. I just wonder. But like Matt, that's. That's a decently big game, is it not Wisconsin. Notre Dame at Lambeau Field in the opener.

[Matt Fortuna]

That was supposed to be 2020, by the way. So everyone knocks their schedule. It's like, hey, this was supposed to be the year after Wisconsin made the Rose bowl, not the year after they went 4 and 8 or whatever they went last year. I'm with you and I think Colton Joseph is one of the best portal quarterbacks out there. I'm a little surprised Wisconsin was able to get him. I'm not making excuses for how poor Luke Fickle has been through three years of Madison, but the guy has been cursed at the quarterback position. I mean, just no one can stay healthy there. And the schedule did not work in their favor from a Big Ten standpoint. And playing Alabama each of the last two years as well. So I do think there could be some evening out of just the breaks of the game for Wisconsin coming into this year.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Fortuna]

Market Stream has been a. A lot of good things at every day. One thing he's not mastered yet is being a great September coach. The September record, whether it's losing at home to Marshall, losing at home to niu, a fire truck's going by. As I say this, maybe that's an omen. You can probably hear it in the background. Losing the first two last year with a team that might have been good enough to win the whole thing if they got in. So I think, you know, maybe that works. Wisconsin favorite. I will say for the gamblers among us that week one line, I think it's on. FanDuel went from 19 and a half to 16 and a half already now. It's still a very big line that I would hit. That I would hit Wisconsin.

[Doug Les Maurice]

I would hit Wisconsin on that.

[Matt Fortuna]

Yeah, I'll be care. I mean Notre Dame I think is a deserved national title favorite. Yeah, they've got a massive chip on their shoulder and maybe the best quarterback in the country. So I would hesitate to go against the Irish. But I do get your point with the Wisconsin love. And I gotta ask you this, since we've been making fun of your age the whole time. I know you cover Marcus Freeman as a player. Did you cover Luke Fickle as a player too?

[Doug Les Maurice]

I did not. Luke and I are like two weeks apart in age actually.

[Bill Landis]

So. So who's older?

[Doug Les Maurice]

Yeah, I think Luke is. Yeah, Luke is slightly older than me also. His forearms are much bigger than mine also. So. Yeah. So, yeah. So I'm like, I will. That's. I think that's an interesting early game to see how things shake out.

[Matt Fortuna]

Lambo, I mean it's of kind gonna be awesome no matter what.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Audrey will be there.

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah, yeah, I wish. Crown jewel of the NFL. You didn't describe it correctly, Doug. You can't just say oh, it's at Lambo. If you say the crown jewel of the NFL. I mean.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Oh, it is a Notre Dame home game.

[Matt Fortuna]

Oh yeah. Because the soldier field one that was supposed to be part two of this rivalry in 21 was. That was a Wisconsin game on Fox. Wisconsin.

[Audrey Snyder]

When did Wisconsin played there? What year was that? Because I remember they had Aaron Rodgers on LSU there.

[Matt Fortuna]

They played when Dakota Dixon got clotheslined and Les Miles got fired.

[Audrey Snyder]

Right.

[Matt Fortuna]

Later.

[Audrey Snyder]

That's right.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay.

[Audrey Snyder]

Because yeah, that atmosphere is going to be awesome. Yeah, maybe you're gonna go to that, Matt, you should.

[Matt Fortuna]

I'll be there. I'm just trying to figure out if it'll be a night game or not. And I think it probably will be because ESPN does not have a an ACC night game that day from my understanding.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay.

[Matt Fortuna]

Big thanks to our sponsor BetterHelp for partnering with us for this important conversation I about mental health.

[Bill Landis]

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[Audrey Snyder]

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[Doug Les Maurice]

All right, let's get to Question number four. We'll start with me. What percent true is this statement? Indiana is here to stay as a yearly playoff contender. Like, is that 90% true? Is it 46% true? Is it 10% true? Whatever you think I will say. I was going to say 90. I might say 100. I can think. I just think it's there. Like, I just don't. I don't know that there's any reason to doubt. They got Josh Hoover at quarterback. They are bringing back, like, most of their offensive line, but then they added Joe Bruner from Wisconsin. Like, they just add good guys. They seem to fill all their holes in the portal. They're really aggressive there. I think their recruiting is only going to get better. They've done a good job of coordinator retention, and I don't think Mike Shanahan and Brian Haynes will stay forever, but I don't think they're going to be in a hurry to get out of there. So I just don't know, not just this year, but beyond what would knock Indiana out of this tier. You know, like, why, why, why? If, you know, we're talking about, okay, they're sort of, like, viewed as guarantees with Oregon and Ohio State. I. I don't know why that won't be true in 2027 or 2028 or 2029 or as long as Kurt Signetti is there. So I'm kind of all in. I'll say 100. Audrey, are you at 100? Are you, like, at 99? Okay.

[Audrey Snyder]

I'm at 73. Because, Doug, to your point, this sport is cruel. This sport is harsh. Right. As you're gassing up the Badgers over there with all their injuries at quarterback over the years, that, to me, is the only thing that takes Indiana out of the equation. Right. If you get an injury at quarterback. Right. Something like that, a catastrophic injury. That's why I give them 73 and not 75 and not a hundred. Because you do need some luck for things to go right. Right. I mean, that, I think, is the other part of this sport that we kind of overlook. But, yeah, as long as Kurt Signetti. Signetti is there, there's no reason not to think that this team is going to be in the hunt, realistically, every single year. It's remarkable. It is fun to watch, which I'm not sure how many of your listeners will agree with my statement on that, but I. You know, as someone who wasn't covering a playoff team this year, I very much enjoyed watching that run. But, yeah, I just think the Injury piece in this sport is the thing you can't account for, Doug. So to say it's bulletproof 100%. You know, you get a injury at a weird time of the year, and all of a sudden you're going into the playoff without your quarterback or without your top receiver or something like that. That's the only thing. But, yeah, that's. That's the. They're pretty much just about bulletproof at this point.

[Matt Fortuna]

Okay, Matt, what are you, 98? 99. I mean, I won't say 100, because that means it's already happened, but, I mean, two out of 200. Signetti as an FBS head coach, he is 46 and six. And in his final three years as an FCS head coach, JMU made at least the semifinals. So if we're talking about them As a top 12 team, there's no argument in my mind of how they can't be viewed as a contender for a top 12 team every single year as long as Kirk's there.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay, where are you, Bill?

[Audrey Snyder]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Contender 90, right? Like, are they gonna be there. Be actually in the playoff every year? I. I wouldn't say that, but I think they're going to more often than not be in the conversation. I'll be interested. Like, there's part of this conversation, and I've even sort of, like, parroted it. Like, Indiana is still benefiting from, you know, not being a good team when this. When this batch of Big Ten schedules was set out. But then they go play at Oregon and Iowa last year. Right. And their schedule this year, like, definitely has some games they can lose. It's not like they're getting a cakewalk in the Big Ten season last season or. Or this season. And I just think there's so much kind of goodwill and equity banked by this coaching staff the last two years that it's nearly impossible for me to just, like, write. Write any of that off. Right. Like, they're gonna be there. I'm curious to see what happens when Brian Haynes and Mike Shanahan leave. I think that'll happen. I know. I know they re up them, and those guys are probably there for another year or two. That'll be a real test for Kurt Signetti, I think, to, like, where. Where does he go to replace those guys when the time comes? But they're so good at player evaluation. Sig has such a great handle, I think, on how to manage a season and get his team through the regular season and in a good spot to perform well when they get to the postseason that they're not going to fall off anywhere. They might have a, an eight or nine win season here or there, but I, I think they will be viewed as a playoff contender most years as long as Sig is there.

[Matt Fortuna]

I would just add, you know, I thought it was interesting that the day after press conference of the national title game, Sig went out of his way to say, by the way, like, let's shout out the 20, 24 Hoosiers who never got any credit and always got ragged on for their schedule and for not being in Ohio State and Air Dame. He's like, but they set the tone for what we were able to do this year. And you more traditional blue bloods, you always hear that at the trophy ceremony, like, this is for the guys who came before us and the guys laid the foundation. Indiana really never got any of that. It was like, okay, that's nice. You went 11 and one, you lost to Ohio State and now Notre Dame in the playoff. We'll never hear from you again. It's like, no, actually, like, they're the ones who made people believe in Indiana and made Indiana believe in Indiana. And therefore, again, I know it's a lot of different faces when you're recruiting fifth year seniors again and again, but it's still a program, it's still the same coaching staff. There's a model there, a culture. And I think now that they've won it all, we'll finally see them get that, that, you know, national bump, if you will, in profile and in benefit of the doubt.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Yeah, that's the thing I wonder about if we asked if we had 30 other college football pundits on here, like, is that where everybody is? Or how many people are still holding out on, like, yeah, it was a two year run. They lost all the JMU guys. Now, like, they're scared like. Or is everybody kind of like, no, they're good. They're legit. They're a top 12 program. Why would you think of them any different than you would think of Oregon or Notre Dame or Ohio State or Texas or Georgia or the teams that you just think are always going to be there? Audrey, is everybody there now or just the four of us are there and there's plenty of people who are like, oh, no, I think at the end it's going in seven and five this year. They're not, they're not for, actually for real as a program.

[Audrey Snyder]

Well, Doug is, you know, you're the guy who runs a lot of polls and I think this could be a really good question for you to kind of survey the landscape of the sport. And don't forget to, you know, include everyone in your poll, because there are.

[Doug Les Maurice]

A lot of people that voted in poll 50 minutes. I knew we'd get there.

[Audrey Snyder]

So I would be fascinated to see those results because I think I am certainly there. But I also, to Matt's point, what changed between. Oh, I mean, obviously a big thing in national championship, but what changed between last off season when, you know, the. The tenor seemed to be. The theme was, well, Indiana was a cute story. Like, that was great, but like, who's this year's Indiana? Right. Like, we all weren't looking at them in that same vein where this year it seems like more people are bought in on them and their staying power. But, yeah, I would be curious if you also included some SEC folks in this poll. Like, do they think of it differently? Probably. But, yeah, I think that is a really good poll for you to conduct. I would like to see those results, Doug. Okay, so you got my email, so you don't get me this time.

[Doug Les Maurice]

I got texted you, so we'll make sure we get it to you. All right, let's finish up with this. We'll start back with Audrey again. Pick a player. Pick one player who's going to be really important to how this Big Ten season unfolds in 2026. Audrey.

[Audrey Snyder]

We've talked about him a lot on here already. Nico having the chance to watch him last year against Penn State, that to me was like the eye opener of, whoa, this guy, despite all the baggage from the transfer and all these things in Tennessee and the backstory and the craziness of the sport with his place in it, Holy cow, this guy's really good. I am fascinated to see what his next step looks like. And I think, you know, Bill's out here saying, you guys saying maybe the really, really dark horse of ucla, they can also play the role of spoiler and really mess some things up for some of these other teams. And I think Nico is absolutely, you know, part of that. I think when we look at this conference and Dante Moore, of course, is going to be the headliner and Julian saying, and where does Rocco Beck fit into that equation of the Big Ten too? Don't forget about this guy because I think Nico is a special talent.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Matt, what's your answer?

[Matt Fortuna]

So there's, for the first time in a long time, it feels like there's so many returning quarterbacks, known commodities in this conference, and any one of them would obviously qualify as legitimate answer. To this question, as would Jeremiah Smith, who's probably the best pure football player in the country. I'll go a little different. I'll go Coy Parish, who transferred from Minnesota to Oregon. Offense, defense, special teams. Obviously a two time all Big Ten player at safety, but I think he's a guy who can change the game in all sorts of different ways. And if you look at Oregon's final month of the season, it's at Ohio State, Michigan, at Michigan State, Washington. I count three legitimate college wall playoff contenders in that group. I'd be surprised if he doesn't play a big role in at least one of those games and therefore helps decide the Big Ten title race. Whether that's knocking Ohio State out of it or lifting Oregon to it with a couple good performances at the end. And hey, he was. Everyone's like Travis Hunter, dark horse Heisman at this point last year. How realistic was that going to be on a Minnesota team? I don't know. But he won't fly under the radar this year at Oregon, that's for sure. They kind of invented the Heisman campaign.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Interesting. That's a good pick. Bill, where are you going?

[Bill Landis]

Bryce Underwood and his chance, I think, to like, really to, to elevate Michigan, I think rather, rather quickly. There's been a lot of conversation this off season, well, whatever, since the Big Ten schedule came out about how difficult Ohio State schedule is. I, I think Michigan's is pretty tough. So there's like, there's no guarantee even with a Bryce Underwood jump that Michigan gets back into the playoff picture. But you're talking about a player with all the talent in the world, right? Like he's got everything in his skill set, I think to, to very quickly put himself in the conversation with, you know, top, top five quarterbacks in the sport. And it was interesting to me to hear like Kyle Whittingham was on with Urban Meyer and Urban said like, hey, what do you think of Bryce Underwood? And Kyle Whittingham's answer was, well, they didn't really have a quarterbacks coach here last year. So I'm interested to see what that might do for Bryce Underwood. This offense that Jason Beck is bringing to Michigan did a lot for, for Devin Dampier. I don't think it'll look exactly the same because Underwood's not going to run as much as Dampier did. But I think Underwood will run some. He can run some. We saw last year when Michigan kind of took that governor off of him. That's kind of when their offense looked the best they just really never let him open it up consistently. And I, I don't think that Becker or Whittingham are going to be shy about that. So I was just, like, peeking at some Heisman odds like Underwood's, like, pretty far down there. He's not really in the conversation, but part of me does wonder is the right set of circumstances emerging for him to, to really kind of vault up the list in terms of who are the, who are the top quarterbacks in the sport this year?

[Doug Les Maurice]

Interesting, Matt, as you noted. Like, it is. It is a. It is. It's actually a pretty interesting crop of veteran returning quarterbacks across college football. But the Big Ten certainly qualifies in there. There's, like, a lot of answers. There's, like, there's not a ton of Big Ten, top Big Ten programs that are sort of searching for their quarterback. I'm going to wind up saying two guys. But I'll start with something that we've talked about a lot already, which is USC and USC schedule, especially in the middle of the year. Jaden Maeve at quarterback for USC is the. Threw for 285 yards per game last year. That was sixth in the country. He's the number one power four returner at his own school in terms of quarterback yardage. Right. Like, he was the most productive quarterback. And you look at Audrey, kind of what you were saying, not only is it what you might do, but what you might do to other teams. They have like a kind of easy September, but at the end, starting with Oregon, this is USC's middle six. Oregon, Washington at Penn State off at Wisconsin, Ohio State off at Indiana. And so you think about, you're playing like, again, talking about this USC schedule, They're playing Oregon, Ohio State, Indiana, the top three playoff contenders in the Big Ten. Washington, we think is in there. Penn State, we think is in there. And Wisconsin's my dark horse. Like, if Jade Maeve and USC knocks off one of the Big three, if they can steal a game here, steal a game there, like, I think this guy could be in the Heisman race. I think if, if it all comes together is USC all of a sudden has all this opportunity to do things that they control their own destiny in a lot of ways. And I'm super curious about that. And I feel like we haven't talked a ton about Ohio State on this show, and Ohio State is like, still a dominant program in the nation. Matt, do you think, like, if Julian Saying is just like, oh, I got this in year two, I figured it out. I Have the best weapon in the country. Like, let's go. Because like, we sort of thought like he had a good freshman year. We thought maybe he'd elevate in the playoff. He didn't, he didn't have a great game against Miami. But in year two for Julian Saying, who was the number one quarterback recruit in the country, a five star guy, if it like all locks in for him, like, I'm very curious, is it, could it just be a situation because Dante Moore is the same thing, right? There's multiple guys like Rocco Beck's the same thing. You can file if they just have an awesome year. But if Julian Saying is just like, no, I'm the best quarterback in the country, that could happen and that would matter a lot to the Big Ten.

[Matt Fortuna]

Well, yeah, I mean, he's got a real OC this year, right? I mean, not that Brian Hartlett was a real oc, but that was kind of an experiment. And you guys know it's better than me. I'm sure Ryan Day is still very, very heavily involved when it comes to the quarterback position, but with Arthur Smith, who's kind of the, you know, I'm sure you've made this analogy like the offensive answer to the Matt Patricia hire last year, which I think a lot of us were skeptical about, but ended up working out very, very well. Sure, I, I could see that. And I'm not saying Dante Moore is going to take a step back, but I think Oregon's really going to miss Will sign. I think he might have been the best offense coordinator in the country, and I'll be curious to see what he does as a head coach now at Kentucky. But I, I do that. That gave me a little bit of pause about Oregon beating Ohio State to win the Big Ten as well, because there is some staff turnover there that they, on both sides that they really have not had to deal with under Dan Lanning. So I, I could see us saying now, I think Saying is going to be hurt by Jeremiah Smith because Jeremiah Smith will be the beneficiary of the primary beneficiary of Julian Saiyan's, you know, purported breakout season. And Jeremiah Smith's just, you know, he's kind of a unicorn, right? Like, we haven't seen a guy have that big of an impact in that many big games as a true freshman stay at one program for the next two years. I mean, how many times we're gonna hear next year, this guy's still in college. Oh, I thought he graduated even though he's only a junior. A true junior. And that I think matters a lot when it comes to just the Heisman voting body and familiarity and whatnot. Because if you could do a college football draft right now and say you're starting a roster from scratch, you get any player in the country, he'd easily be the first non quarterback. He'd probably still be the first overall pick regardless because he's going to make whoever you get a quarterback that much better.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Okay. Audrey Snyder and Matt Portuna, thank you for taking time out of your busy weeks, out of your college football coverage to join us here on around the Big Ten. Audrey Snyder, what do you got popping over there on Inside the Lions? You have your, your podcast that you're doing, you're writing a bunch of stuff, you have a whole new program to cover. What can people look forward to from you?

[Audrey Snyder]

Well, that's a great question, Doug, because it's a very long to do list that I need to get to Danton Lynn, I mentioned earlier as the usc, former USC coordinator came to Penn State this off season, I asked him point blank a couple weeks ago, how are you going to make sure you create again younger guy? I actually covered him as a player so I kind of can now relate to Doug.

[Matt Fortuna]

He was a go to quote at the student newspaper.

[Audrey Snyder]

I will say that, yes, very good quote. And now we're like the same age and I'm covering him so I feel the old person thing there. But I asked him point blank, how are you going to build and create a defense that these players can understand? Back to our gym, Knowles Point. So I'm interested to dive into that. They also have a 34 year old offensive coordinator, Taylor Mouser, who's been Matt Campbell's guy going back to Toledo. So gonna dig into both coordinators and I think we'll be hearing from Penn State players pretty soon. But yeah, we got that. We got the Nittany Dispatch podcast going. So all kinds of stuff.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Matt Fortuna, where can the people find you? What do you have coming up with all the things you're doing?

[Matt Fortuna]

So being the Midwest heavy site that I've become, I've spent a good portion this week trying to figure out why Sacramento State is now in the Mid American Conference and what that means for the Mac and college football at large. I'll be curious to see if that money that they claim to have is actually real and sustainable, but of greater interest to more people. I have a lot of recruiting slash data heavy pieces coming out both as it relates to the recruiting rankings in the Nil Portal era since 2021. And some Big Ten quarterback experience pieces that I alluded to earlier on this show. Not just the Big Ten, I think bleeps. Of the seven top Vegas favorites to win the national title next year, Indiana is the only one that does not return starting quarterback. So there might be a lot more familiarity on these rosters than I think the common fan is used to. And maybe our predictions, like we can actually put money on them right now in February because there's no spring portal and therefore in theory these rosters as we know them are set. Although I'm sure we'll see a lawsuit or two at the end of April.

[Audrey Snyder]

Casual lawsuit.

[Matt Fortuna]

One of these guys realizes they're not going to start at their new school and they say get me the hell out of here.

[Doug Les Maurice]

Oh God, I can't wait for more lawsuits. Bill, we got stuff going over at Bill and Doug osu.substack.com what, what, what are we doing? I actually, I'm asking.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, well, I, I did a thing that's already published, published on Monday looking at the history of how much freshmen have played under Ryan Day because you know, they lost eight guys from their freshman class after one year to the transfer portal this off season. So how that has gone, how this year, how the 2025, 2025 freshman fit into that and what, if anything, we can learn from freshman play? I wrote that on Monday. What do we do on Wednesday? What's our Wednesday show?

[Doug Les Maurice]

We have a Wednesday show for our Substack subscribers trying to reset the standards in this era for Ohio State football. We did a survey of our subscribers. How often in a 10 year period should Ohio State beat Michigan? How often should they make the playoff? How often should they win the national title? How often should they win 10 games? Like as, as you're maybe you're playing tougher schedules like the playoff is expanding. Like what, what should your team be? I think it's one of the most important things that we can help fans do is set expectations so that you know what you should and shouldn't be mad about. So we're kind of doing that with the folks, Bill, and then we'll talk it out on Wednesday for Substack subscribers.

[Bill Landis]

Is that okay?

[Doug Les Maurice]

Ready for that? All right. Audrey and Matt, great stuff. Thank you for your time. Go consume their content. Audrey Snyder and Matt Fortuna, they're two of the best in the country. Thank you for your time. On behalf of Audrey and Matt. On behalf of Bill Landis, I'm Doug Les Maurice and that was around the Big ten on the Bill and Doug Show.

[Audrey Snyder]

If you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.