← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Around the Shoe: Ohio State at the NFL Combine; best Buckeye transfer addition; was Troy snubbed?
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Ohio State football is the topic once again on Around the Shoe, as Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by two great Ohio State media guests to discuss the Buckeyes. Dave Biddle of Bucknuts.com and Juck Miletti of Juck on Bucks join to talk five topics on the Buckeyes, as the NFL Combine kicks off this week.
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A
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its own small fries, drink and Four Piece McNuggets. There's actually no rush. I'm just excited for McDonald's for a limited time only person participation may vary. Not Valver MCD delivery. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. It's around the Shoe. We are back talking with great two, two great members of the Ohio State media group to talk about the Buckeyes. Last couple weeks have been something else. We did around the shot, we talked about basketball. We did around the Big Ten last week. We're back to the core group talking football. Football is creeping towards us. Doug Lam Reese and Bill Andis joined by Dave Biddle. Dave, thanks for your previous appearance. It was fantastic. We're so happy to have you back. How you been?
- [01:19]
D
Dave Biddle I've been really good. It's tough coming up with like things to do for work at this time of the year, doing what we do. But hey, I do three or four podcasts a week. You guys are doing podcasts all the time so we, we find a way to make it happen. But I'm doing good, man. I'm doing good. I could use spring getting here. As soon as I think we're getting into spring, it's like no, winter is still here. But guys, I'm doing really well. I appreciate you guys having me back on the show.
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B
Yeah, fighting through fake spring here. Chuck is back as well. Chuck on Bucks. Juc's cranking it out as always. Thanks. Thanks for coming back and joining us again, my friend.
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E
Oh, so happy to be back. Look, I'm a solo host. Anytime I can shoot the breeze with a couple of other fellas, I'm really happy to do so, buddy.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So we have the the NFL combine creeping toward us this week. There are guys in Indianapolis right now on Monday. The things are starting out. They'll start getting on the field for workouts, to start having media interviews during the week. And as we think about our five topics for Ohio State football in this edition of around the Shoe, we understand that this is going to be a pretty great draft for the Ohio State Buckeyes. If you look at mock draft breakdowns, there are four Buckeyes, Arval Reese, Carnell Tate, Caleb Downs and Sonny Styles, projected to be among the top 12 picks in this NFL draft. Dave Biddle, we will start with you. What word or phrase would you use to describe the fact that the Bucke have this much NFL talent, this much elite talent at the top of the roster, but yet we're not sitting here talking about the Buckeyes as repeat national champions.
- [02:55]
D
Disappointing is the word I came up with. You know, I don't think it's. I don't think it's catastrophic by any means. I don't think it's. It was anything crazy because they did lose to the two best teams in the nation, as it turned out, with Indiana and Miami. At least the two teams have played for the national championship game. If they would have missed the cfp, if they would have lost Michigan, again, I say that that's catastrophic. You have all this talent and you lose to Michigan, you don't even make the cfp. So, yeah, definitely disappointing. But I also think it mitigates, you know, the feeling from last year that they won the national championship in 2024. I, I think last year would have been a lot tougher on fans, I believe, if they weren't coming off the national championship. So definitely disappointing to not win at all with all that talent, but, you know, not too surprising in my book.
- [03:42]
B
Yeah. And Chuck, the reason I bring this up is like, I think when it happened, right? It's like, oh, man, that's a tough loss. But you saw how good Miami was and what they went on to do. But I kind of said at the time, man, I think this is going to come back around when we get to the NFL draft because the reality is going to slap everybody in the face a little bit more about how good some of these players were. So what's, what's, what's the, the word or phrase for you here, Jack?
- [04:05]
E
Yeah, Sim. I mean, similar to David, it was monumental disappointment. And, and, well, I, I agree with Dave to, to a lot of his points. To me, you know, what makes a huge disappointment, like, what makes it hit the hardest? To me, it's when it teases you when you come into a season thinking that you don't really have everything you need. Your expectations aren't really that you're going to repeat. And then you start getting into it and it's like, oh, whoa, hold on a second. Arvell Reese is that next level animal. Sonny did take that next step. KMAC is the best D tackle in football. Look at Carnell's step that he took. And now all of a sudden, you got the most accurate quarterback in the country in, in history. And it's like, wait a minute, we can actually do this. You're number one. You're the betting favorite. And I feel like the way it ended was just, honestly, I feel like the whole season, I feel like it was just a, a lot of stubbornness in, in coaching that that kind of led to the demise of a team that could have won it all. And the fact that they were so close to Miami and Indiana doesn't make me feel better, makes me feel worse. And, and I knew that when this NFL draft rolled around, I would just start to get more and more irritated. And, and that's where I find myself as a fan. Just getting more and more happy for these guys, but more and more irritated that they weren't able to cash this in because they clearly could have beaten teams.
- [05:27]
B
Yeah. And it is. I'll be curious if there's any kind of vibe that comes out of Indianapolis this week as, like, like, as people realize, man, like our Orville Reese and Carnot, like Carnell Tate and. And Sonny's like, they start running through all these guys and then whether. Because it always is one of these things, Bill, where it's like, it's the convergence of NFL media and college media. And I do feel like sometimes the NFL media, because they're so locked in on the number one sport in the country, like, they don't know that much about college football. They only know about college football as it pertains to football producing draft prospects. And I wonder if anybody, if Stephen A. Smith's going to be like, they have four of the top 12 draft prospects, how do they not win at all? Like, I am, like, I am curious that if that comes out this week at all. Landis, like, what's your word?
- [06:11]
C
Yeah, I think it might. But then I would, I would just ask like Stephen A. Smith or whoever that they have like, goldfish memory. They won the national title two years ago. Right. Like, I, I think I tend to think of it more as like a two year window. And I'm not trying to say, like, it's okay that Ohio State didn't repeat as national champ because that is difficult. Sometimes moments arise where it is sort of within your grasp. And it was certainly there for Ohio State to do this thing this year and they didn't do it, and that's a bummer. But like I, if you just ask me, like with this group going to the NFL not winning a title this year, I, I kind of think it's fine because they won one the year before. And with the exception of Arvell Reese, I guess they were all major contributors to that team. If we were sitting here on, on the eve of this combine knowing that Ohio State was going to have four first round picks and a handful, or not a handful, but. But maybe a couple more second round picks and then the 2024 and 25 rosters combined have something like 15 players who were selected in the first and second round and they had nothing to show for it. Yeah, let's have a conversation. But like they won the national title in 2024. They beat Michigan this year. Like it's, I'm not trying to silver lining it. I understand people are frustrated by the way the season ended and there's reason to be, but if you can look at like these players as a collective and not just this one moment in time, like these guys left Ohio State as national champions and then I think that's worth celebrating more than it is kind of like lamenting the fact that they didn't win two national championships.
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B
Yeah, take that, Stephen. A preemptively land. Just, just put you in your place. Coming in here with all your hot takes about Ohio State football. I will say, Bill, when you said that, Dave, it, it reminds me a little bit. This is kind of what Michigan was to some degree. Because when Michigan won the national title, they sent a bunch of guys into the next NFL Dr. Left. But then the group after that last year was Mason Graham, Colston, Loveland, Kenneth Grant as first round picks and Will Johnson as a high second round pick. That. That's kind of like Ohio State. The group that leaves right after the national title is like your depth of talent. Right. And there's more guys, but then there are some elite guys who were underclassmen who were still there for another year. So doesn't that make everybody feel better? Ohio State, David, it's just like Michigan. What's the big deal? It's fine.
- [08:31]
D
Yeah, yeah. The Big Ten trifecta. Do you guys all buy that shirt? I know every Indiana, Michigan and Ohio State fan. I bought that shirt. The, the unity in the Big Ten that's funny that they, they did that, but it is kind of cool. The Big Ten has won the last three national championships. Yeah, but I mean that's the thing. I mean it's a top heavy draft for Ohio State. So when you look at it, if they do in fact have four of the top 12 picks.
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B
Yeah.
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D
One third of the top 12. That looks really good. And then you have Kaden McDonald I think will be a first round pick. Some people have them as early second I think. I don't think he's getting by the Bears at 25. I wouldn't be mad if, unless Caleb Downs is on the board. I wouldn't be mad if my Bengals got Caden McDonald at number 10. I think he's going to be a really good defensive tackle for a long time. But I think it's important to point out, and Bill was alluding to this, this is not like they've got like these four or five first round picks and then a bunch of second day picks. Some people have them projected as zero second day picks. I think ITB is a lock for the second second day. Just in my opinion, second night, second round or third round. I think IGB is going to be a second rounder or third rounder. There's just Max Claire could be a third rounder. I think Kaden Curry is going to be a fourth rounder maybe. And just in my opinion, and maybe Kazmark will be a fifth round or sixth rounder. So it's not like it's a top heavy draft. It's not like they're putting like 14 guys in the NFL. You know, five first rounders and four second rounders and three third rounders. It's a good, very good draft class for Ohio State, but it's top heavy. And yeah, they lost so many guys from the previous year. And I did say, I just got to say I. Coming into the year, we had a question on Bucknuts. What would make this a successful season in your book? I said the baseline is beat Michigan, make the cfp. It's a successful season. As young as they were. But like Chuck was saying, I got caught up in it too. I was like, man, yeah, this team's better than I thought. There's not a juggernaut out there. It turns out Indiana kind of was a little. Ohio State's right there. And in Indy in the Big Ten championship game, only lost that game by three points and they had that, you know, missed chip shot field goal. So who knows. So even against Indiana, can we call them a Jugger or not, I think it's fair to call them a juggernaut. I give them a lot of respect. But yeah, it was a couple of factors that made it disappointing. They looked like the best team in the country for a while. That didn't look like to be like really another juggernaut team. And then to lose those final two games really leaves a sour taste in everybody's mouth. But yeah, that's why I go with disappointing but not catastrophic.
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B
I so just so we can reset this here, Dave, in a passing mention there. Oh, I wonder if Caleb downs could maybe get to the Bengals at 10. Dave, you have built an altar. You are burning incense. You are doing whatever it takes to have Caleb downs drop to 10 so the Bengals can kid. Come on, Dave. Come on.
- [11:03]
D
Yes. And I. It's not going to happen. It'd be. It'd be foolish for the first 19. I don't think he's going to get past Kansas City. I don't think he's going to get to make it to Kansas city. I did see a couple mock. Two different mock drafts that about made me like throw my laptop. It was caleb downs falls to the Bengals at 10. They pass on him to take some combine warrior and then the dolphins take Caleb Downs at 11. I. I'm going to just lose my mind if they. He falls to the Bengals and they still don't take him. It's not going to happen. Our old friend Jeff Halfley would definitely like that if it happened. But yeah, I would love to see Caleb downs. I feel like I talked the u. S. Men's hockey gold medal into existence. How cool is that? Let's talk Caleb Downs of the Bengals.
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B
Okay. Okay, I'll finish up here.
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C
My.
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B
My word, I think is matchups because the thing that, that like as much as Ohio State has four, the top 12 and. And then you throw in Kaden McDonald, they would have projected five of the top 60 picks. Miami Ruben Bane in the mock draft database is three and Francis Maui Noah, their right tackle is four. And they have four of the top 60 guys. When you throw in a key. Mezador also projected first rounder and Keonte Scott, the guy with the pick six, also in the top 60. And then Indiana has their quarterback at number one and they also have four guys in the top 60. So it's one of those where Ohio State. Yes. Has a sort of like a top heavy draft class with a lot of great guys and the two teams they lost to while also talking about that they were the two best teams in the country that, that played for the national championship, they also had elite talent at positions that were able to sort of hurt Ohio State. So it's one of those. It's not an excuse, but it's like, well, you know, you have R.L. arvell Reese was like, well, who would you want to have block in Arvell Reese and Kaden Curry? It's like, well, Francis Malinoba, the best tackle in football. And they had that. And then Ruben Bain is tearing people's arms off. So it is one of those where it was an acknowledgment to me, a reminder not only how talented Ohio State was, but how talented Indiana and Miami were. And they are. Those three teams are gonna. You're gonna hear their names called a lot in the first round. You're gonna hear their names called a lot in the second and third rounds. And it's just a reality. All right, number two, we'll stay with the combine. It starts this week. As we said, Chuck, Starting with you, 11 Buckeyes are gonna be an Indy. Who's the guy that you're most curious about to see how he does in Indianapolis?
- [13:24]
E
Yeah, I mean, this is going to be awesome. I usually don't, don't tune in a ton. I did last year. Obviously there were so many to, to watch and then this year I will again. And obviously if you're just picking one, it's difficult because of course we all want to see the, the freak shows that, that Arvel and, and Sonny and Caleb can put on, like what kind of numbers they're going to do. It might be best at their positions. And I think that, that Sonny's really going to wow some people. So I'm really excited for that one. But I kind of want to like, they.
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D
I don't.
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E
I don't think can really help or hurt their draft stock. Well, they're all going to do great. They're. None of them are really going to rise from it. So I want to go a little further down the board and, and I'm going to go with Kaden Curry. I'm really looking forward to seeing what Kaden Curry does. This is a guy coming in I didn't think was going to be able to be a 50 snap a game guy last year. And what he turned into was just, I mean, something special. I think there's probably a lot of NFL boards that, that he's on and they're not quite sure where to slot him and they're looking to see some really good agility out of him, some really quick three cone drill and, and some stuff like that to kind of boost him up. And I'm really hoping that he does because I think, I think somebody's going to get really lucky and I hope he gets to, gets to get drafted a little higher than maybe he's being projected right now.
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B
Yeah, that'll be very curious. And again, everybody shows all the workouts now and stuff. I'll be curious as Caden's a good name there. Bill, who you got?
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C
I think I'm most interested in Lorenzo Styles Jr. I'm not even sure that he's going to get drafted, frankly, but, but I, I think there's a really strong chance maybe he could run himself into the draft. Right. Like I've, I've had it in my mind all year, like when he returns that kickoff for a touchdown and then Brendan, it says like, that's the fastest guy on the team. It's like, well, there are a lot of really fast guys on this team, so that must mean Lorenzo Styles is pretty fast. Shows up to Indy and puts up like a low 44 or a high 4 3, then I think he's gonna obviously help himself. But I think people start talking about him like as a, maybe a more of a lock on the back end than, or back into the draft. You know, I don't know that he profiles as an NFL starter necessarily, but he also strikes me as a guy that can be one of your backup defensive backs and be like a core special teams guy for a long time in the NFL. And you know, I think, you know, his, his family history and, and the athleticism that that group has, what will help him. So I'm, I'm excited to watch him run. I'm curious how some of the other athletic metrics might measure up and because like, everything just seems like such a lock at the top of the draft, I do think a lot of the injury kind of lies more toward the bottom, like Chuck was saying. So, so I'm, I'm really excited to see what Lorenzo does this week.
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E
Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health.
- [16:19]
F
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- [16:52]
B
Friday. DB's workout on the field on Friday. So if you want to set, you know, your, your recording to check out whatever the NFL networks, you know, that's my guy too. And I should, I should have known. It's like, well, I'll say this Lorenzo Styles in, in case Landis doesn't say him, but it's like, of course I knew that, that Lorenzo Styles was going to be the guy for Landis. Again. It. It reminds me a little bit just kind of like, because he's like, he can be physical too. Like, he's not. Sometimes you get a bunch of skinny guys who are running really fast and it reminds me a little bit of Paris Campbell on the other side of the ball that Paris Campbell was like such like a physical guy, but also was a burner. And it's sort of like, oh, like this guy's like, he's kind of put together and he's also super fast. And I think Lorenzo showed that, especially the back half of the season with his play, that he's not just some, you know, like, cover only kind of guy. He'll put his nose on the ball and that kind of thing. But also, what if he runs a really fast time? So I'll say Lorenzo Styles also. Dave, are you also saying Lorenzo Styles?
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D
I am not. I thought, okay, guys, we're gonna steal my pick. When you guys are going in the DBs, I'm gonna go with IGB, Davis and Ignosa because I feel like he's a little bit of a wild card. Like, I, I don't see anybody projecting him as a first round pick. I didn't expect that. But I'm seeing a lot of three round mocks that some have him as a third rounder. I've seen maybe one that has him in the second round. I've seen some that don't. Three round mocks that don't even have him listed. And I think there's a good chance he's going to be a second round pick coming in the year. I thought he had a chance to be a first round pick and I think the film is really going to help him because the one thing he needed to clean up, he needed to be a lot less handsy. And he went from 14 penalties to four. He really cleaned that up. He's physical, he's long. Again, I, I think if you're a team like and you'd be a good team to be drafting that late. If you're a good team, like very, very, very late in the first round, that might be actually a solid pick. So I'll go with Igb because I'm very curious to see how he does at the combine. I'm tempted, like Chuck was saying, to say something like Sonny Styles because I think he's going to put on an absolute show. I mean, Sonny is listed at 64 by Ohio State. First of all, does he look like six four to you guys? Looks like he's five to me.
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E
Yeah, right.
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D
I mean, I walked by him. I'm like, I. I can't call myself six three if he's six four.
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C
Yeah.
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D
Which is taller than me. And it's been saying my with Josh Perry. So I'm curious if Sonny's gonna measure it like 6 5. He's gonna jump out of the gym. This guy would take one step from the three point line in high school and dunk. He's on that state championship team with Devin Royal at pick Central. He's gonna run like the win. I hope he runs. So I'm tempted to say Sonny Styles,
- [19:18]
B
but I'll go with IGB Styles brothers dominate the combine. We're set up for that. Like, that's all right if that's the number one story, Chuck. Right. That'd be great.
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E
I want to add something about, about Lorenzo Styles that I found just really interesting last year. So coming into last year, you know, they got the boards at the Woody with all the testing numbers. They put the top 10 and they essentially do the combine, right? They got about 12 boards and I went through every single board and there was two players on the team who showed up on five of those boards. The most overall best athletes on the team, Lorenzo Styles, Reese Stockdale. So there you go. Lorenzo Styles is going to dominate this combine. Bill. He's going to dominate.
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C
What's restocked is Reese going to dominate the combine too.
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E
Isn't that amazing? I was blown. I was blown. Of all the athletes, Reese, Wow.
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B
All right, hidden gem, let's get to number three. Landis, we'll start with you. This is going back a little bit. This is the Ryan Day era. So from the 2020 NFL Draft on, in that time, Ohio State's had four, 14, excuse me, 14 first round picks in the NFL Draft, not counting the guys who are going to go in the first round this year. If you could pick any Buckeye in the Ryan Day era, like what you thought of them when they were coming out of Ohio State and you have like the first pick in the ultimate Ohio State Ryan Day era NFL draft. And you can, you can take it. You can't take Jeremiah Smith, but you can take the guys who are available in the draft this year. Who would you take? Who would be your number one Buckeye pick of the day era?
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C
Can I take Reese Stockdale? Stockdale.
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D
Miami Shout Out.
- [21:03]
C
Yeah, I am picking Sonny Styles. I'm going with the guy in this current draft class. I think he is the perfect modern linebacker and I think he will very quickly become like the best linebacker in the NFL and be that for like eight years. I did like, God, there, there are guys, when they come out, you're just like, there's no way that doesn't work. It's absolutely going to work. And I think I would maybe put Sunny at the top of that list because he's so young too. Like what he's. Yeah, he's going to be 21 as an NFL rookie. Right. And he's a four year player at Ohio State who kept getting better every single year. He's going to be an absolute stud. And like, you don't, you don't hear off ball linebackers discuss the way that Sonny Styles is being discussed going into this draft. And I know the games changed a little bit in that position was like less valuable for a while. Now it's like kind of coming back in, into, into vogue a little bit. So that's great for Sonny. I think that, I think that matches up well for him. But I also think he's got pass rush stuff that just was never really tapped into at Ohio State. He can cover, he can do everything. So I just have a really difficult time seeing him not becoming a star. And there are other stars, right? There's a lot of guys you can pick. I'm sure we'll hear a bunch of names, but I don't know that I felt like as certain about any of these guys in this era as I feel about Sunny Styles right now.
- [22:24]
B
Can we, can we pause there? Chuck, what do you think about this idea of how high and by the way, Landis, if the headline the perfect modern linebacker does not appear on our sub stack at some point before the draft, I will be very angry because people will read that. Jock, are you all the way there on the Sunny Styles train with how, how hard Landis is driving this thing?
- [22:46]
E
Absolutely not. Not my pick, but I am totally with him. Everything he says, but just, just positional value. I wouldn't pick him, but yeah, I think he's perfect. I think the level of improvement we saw from junior year to senior year was just, it really blew me away. And obviously not a single missed tackle. The level of physicality, he's always where he's supposed to be. The way he flows, I mean just, he's got the leadership, he's got the, the mentality. Everything about him is just perfect.
- [23:18]
B
It's interesting. I'm trying to think like you don't. It's hard sometimes when people get characterized in the draft because they'll call people linebackers, but they're really being drafted to be edge rushers and that kind of thing. So you think about like, I'm just looking at like a linebackers in the top 10, like Will Anderson's in there. It's like Sonny Styles isn't going to be Will Anderson. But I will say, and I've been to the, we've all been to the combine at various times over the year, but 2019, Devin White coming out of LSU, like, people were completely enamored with this guy. And I think he was sort of like, it's not for edge rush stuff. It's like, it's like modern linebacker stuff. He went fifth and I think that's maybe the most recent. Like a guy who's, who's a typical linebacker going that high in the draft. Like Landis, when you talk about Sonny this way, how, how enamored could the NFL get with him this week? Do you think Sonny Styles could wind up as the seventh pick in the draft? Or is what JUC saying? It's like, you know what it's just, it's really about, you know, they want quarterbacks, they want edge guys, they want tackles. That. It's hard for a linebacker to get that high.
- [24:26]
C
I think it is difficult for a linebacker to get that high. I think certain guys kind of transcend that. And I, and I think, okay, I think Sonny is one of those guys. Sonny is like five inches taller than Devin White. Devin White is six foot 250 pounds. Sonny's six five, 250 pounds. So if people love Devin White, I think they're going to love those. Some sunny styles.
- [24:49]
B
I would like you to use the word transcendent in a question to sunny styles this week.
- [24:55]
C
Sure. Okay.
- [24:56]
B
Do you believe you are transcendent, for example, would be a good question you could ask.
- [25:01]
D
Or in the story you know about. Yeah, the modern day linebacker.
- [25:06]
B
Yeah, yeah. Transcendent, period. That's your lead, right? Dateline, Indianapolis Transcendent. I'm Bill Landis I'm gonna go with and. And. And this is. I. We talk about this a lot as like when you're sort of like the final evolution of a guy at Ohio State of sort of like, how could anyone be better than this guy? And this is what I thought this guy was gonna be. And I still think coming out of college, this is how I would think of him. And I would take Chase Young and that, that. That. This guy of like this Ryan Day era, what he did in 2019, the way you thought about him when he came out in the draft in 2020, he was the defensive rookie of the year his first season. In his second season, he tore his acl, tore his patella tendon. It kind of screwed up two years of his career. He got traded and then he had 10 sacks for New Orleans this year in 12 games. And so I do think, if I think about Miles Garrett sets a very high bar. I don't think Chase is maybe quite as bendy as Miles Garrett is, but that's kind of lot like what Miles Garrett has been in the NFL or. Or what like the very, very best edge rushers have been. That's what I thought Chase Young was going to be. And I'm not so sure that if he hadn't gotten hurt, that isn't what he would have wound up being. And maybe he still has a chance to be a version of that. So I think when I think of all the talented guys, positional value, that kind of thing, I think I still would take Chase Young from the Ryan Day era. Dave Biddle, who would you take?
- [26:29]
D
Man, I. I wrote down two guys and the guy I'm going with is Caleb Downs. But I wrote down just in case we couldn't take guys that are in this year's draft, I did write down jsn. I really like the Chase Young pick too. I think myself, I shouldn't say everybody is a prisoner of the fact that his numbers have dropped off because I felt the exact same way. Doug leaving and then his rookie year backed that up. I remember some Bengals fans who probably won't admit it now wondering, are you sure we should take Burrow? Maybe we should take Chase Young number one overall. That was an actual discussion. So that's a good pick. I almost went jsn, but I'm gonna go Caleb Downs. I kind of said this before. I mean, I think he is gonna play probably 15 years in the NFL. And typically safety is not always safeties play longer than wide receivers. We're already seeing JSN get Banged up a little bit. He missed a year at Ohio State. He was banged up in the Super Bowl. He plays a very physical style, but it's not really that. You guys kind of take injuries out of the mix. For me, Caleb Downs just brings everything you want. I've heard some people say when you read these mock drafts, he doesn't have ideal size for a safety. Okay, he's 6 foot 205, but he punches way above his weight class. He plays bigger than that. He's not. He doesn't look like Sean Taylor out there. But I tell you what, Troy Palomalu wasn't that big. And he reminds me more of Ed Reed. You know, I think he's going to be a guy that's just going. He's an absolute human missile. And the thing I like most about Caleb Downs, he might be the smartest football player that I've ever covered, maybe that I've ever watched. You know, they say, as you guys know, I mean, they say he's like. They call him Coach Downs. He's a coach on the field. When Matt Patricia is saying that about somebody, you know, that carries a lot of weight. And we know, you know, coaches can. Can BS and talk their players up, but I don't think he was bs. And so you add it all up. His, his football intelligence. He loves playing football, which I think is really important. His athletic ability. He is a tough, tough player. He hits hard. He doesn't miss tackles. I think Caleb Downs is the safest pick in this draft. I take him number one. No, if I was the Los Angeles or Los Angeles, the Las Vegas Raiders, I'm taking Mendoza. But I think Caleb Downs is the safest pick in this draft. That would be my pick.
- [28:22]
B
Listen, Dave, I'm just trying to shoot straight with you. If you are trying to get this guy to the Bengals, you can't be saying stuff like this publicly. Like people are going to be like, well, we weren't going to take him at 5, but we were watching around the shoe because everybody watches around the shoe. And this Biddle guy was just going off on Caleb Downs. We gotta take him.
- [28:38]
D
And I've seen your numbers. This isn't like nobody's watching this. Like, you guys get like a lot of. Damn it. You're right. All right, let's start over.
- [28:45]
C
Yeah.
- [28:46]
B
Not Kayla Downs. Three, two, one. Chuck, who's your pick here in the all time Ryan Day draft?
- [28:51]
E
You know, when you talk about safest elite picks, I think both Dave and Bill's picks are just like there's, like, no bust factor with either of those guys, you know, I mean, like, you can feel confident picking them really high, knowing that the floor is going to be incredibly high in the NFL. Going off my. Now I'm a poor NFL gm. I've proved this to myself over the years. I'm bad at this game, and I know that. Like, my initial thought was, all right, positional value, you're going to want to go one of the quarterbacks who. Which one did I like better coming out? But to me, quarterbacks are crapshoot. And I would have gone with what I feel is the absolute safest, no bus factor. Sure thing, NFL dominator. And to me, it was absolutely Chase Young. I was wrapped up in it. He was a different type of monster. The size, the speed, the intimidation. I thought that he would be a superstar instantly, which kind of was. And just offenses would have to change their game plans to work around him. Really unfortunate injury, like you said, really. You know, two years essentially hurt his career, and then 10 sacks last year. So maybe we end up seeing it. I don't think he quite has the juice that he once did, but to me, it was. It was a really quick decision like that. Just thinking back to my mindset, when all these guys were coming out, like, to me, that was just like the absolute dude. Just like the. The. I mean, he was the predator. He was the dude.
- [30:21]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:23]
B
And like, Chuck, like, you can see, right? Like, you can sort of in your mind's eye, like, take out the injuries, what it might have looked like. You can. It's like you can envision that, can't you?
- [30:32]
E
Absolutely. And he looks even bigger now. He's just. He. He's so intimidating. That guy is just something different, man. Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health.
- [30:47]
F
This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with BetterHelp, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack. But people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to visit betterhelp. That's better. H E L p.com89 to get started.
- [31:20]
B
All right, so that's, like. That would be a fun. That's not a bad exercise. I think Ryan Day is. You know, we're far enough in to The Ryan Day era that you. You can do. And we're putting this content out there for anybody. Feel free. This is for anyone. You could do a Ryan Day draft. You could. Maybe we're not putting out there, but right, like. But like, okay, we're at pick 11. We taking Garrett Wilson or are we taking Kaden McDonald? You know what I mean? Like, I think, like, there's. There's things that you can kind of think about here because there are these guys for Ohio State who are just like, even like Garrett Wilson, as much like JSN is, has had. Had this unbelievable season. He's like, Garrett Wilson. I thought Garrett Wilson was going to be that dude, and I'm not sure that he's Marvin Harrison Jr. And it's like, are they not that guy? I. I don't know that it's. That they're not, Dave, but they didn't have the same. You know, the jets quarterback situation for Garrett has been a mess. It feels like Kyler's not the guy in Arizona anymore. Receivers are so dependent on that. But I think you could drop Wilson or MHJ on other teams, Dave, and you would get different outcomes in the NFL.
- [32:25]
D
Yeah. And Marvin Harrison Jr. Is a guy that I definitely thought. And again, I just. Like you said, Doug, I don't know if this is mostly on scheme quarterback combination of everything. Maybe Marvin's not the pro we thought he would be. I thought he was a lock to be just an All Pro every year. And it was funny. We're talking about jj and it'll be surprising if Jeremiah Smith doesn't go down as the best receiver to come through Ohio State. I know that's a. A bold statement, but if he stays healthy, it's going to be hard to make an argument for anybody else. We were all saying when Marvin was here, especially Marvin's sophomore year, like, oh, this guy might be the best receiver ever come through. Is he better than Chris Carter? And it's only two years, but that. That's one. That surprised me a little bit. Again, though, I'm not giving up on him just because, like you said, it could be just playing with Kyler Murray where maybe if he was with a better organization, if he was with the Seahawks right now, maybe Marvin Harrison Jr. Would be showing out. So we'll see. That was one. I definitely thought that he was just going to be a stud from day one.
- [33:14]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:15]
C
JJ just needs himself a stud quarterback like Sam Darnold.
- [33:19]
E
Yeah.
- [33:22]
C
Isn't that crazy?
- [33:24]
B
Who knew, man? Who knew? Although I said but at that, that cotton ball with Ohio State, right, But then Ohio State, they kind of like held him down a little bit. But it's like Sam Darnold was pretty good by the end there in college, right? When you thought Landis, you thought Sam Darnold was going to be good. It just took a decade until.
- [33:42]
C
Yeah, then he went to the jets and got destroyed.
- [33:44]
D
And then, yeah, his offensive line was no help, but Nick Bosa was just killing him. The entire defense, Sam Hubbard, those guys were just killing him the entire game. He was still making good throws even though Ohio State put it on him. But he was getting killed the entire game.
- [33:57]
B
Who knew that was actually the beginning of the end for Sam Darnold. People think the jets ruined him. Ohio State ruined him in the Cotton bowl first. All right, let's get to question number four. This is just one of those. And this, I think is one of the best things about as Davis sort of talk about off season football. You're trying to come up with things to do is one, somebody comes up with an idea and then everybody else criticizes it and it's like, yes, that is how we do off season content. So I would like to say thank you to ESPN and Bill Connolly for doing, I think maybe it's an annual thing now, the best 100 college football quarterbacks of the 2000s. And you put in a lot of work and you make a list. And now we're going to come on here and say, oh my God, what is wrong with this guy? Because they're on that list of the top 100 college football quarterbacks of the 2000. There are six Ohio State related guys on that list. And I want all of us to like pick which one of those guys do you have the biggest problem with their ranking? So the Ohio State guys on that list, 89 is Braxton Miller. 75 is J.T. barrett. 40 is Troy Smith. 34 is Justin Fields, 22 is C.J. stroud. And then I included him. 5 is Joe Burrow. So which of these rankings is like, man, I, I think they, they messed up. They're wrong on that. I'll start. And I'm gonna say Troy at 40 because he's behind Diego Pavia. What are we doing? Are we so caught in the, in the Pavia swarm that we're like, well, you know, I mean, digiego, Pavia is like two short. It's like, it's insane. Insane to me. So also, I mean, I have some other things. Like there's a lot of good quarterbacks in college football. But Troy, 25 and three as a starter, leader of the number one team that whole year, it's like, are you. He, he. His last game was bad. And does that like, knock him down 20 spots? But, like, there's a lot of Heisman winners who are much higher than him. He's three and oh, against Michigan. I know he had great receivers, but I think Troy Smith at 40 is too low. And I appreciate the fact that I saw Dave Biddle wince and kind of nod because I think you agree Troy is too low at 40.
- [36:09]
D
Yeah, that's what I wrote down, Doug. Troy should be higher. Yeah, I run out of a problem with, with the rankings overall, but Troy should be higher. You look back, like you said, he was 30 against Michigan. Those were three good Michigan teams. He had his coming out party as a sophomore. Ohio State was an underdog at home. And O4, that was toys coming out party. Then Michigan was good in 05. They went up to Ann Arbor, had the comeback. Probably one of the better comebacks for Ohio State in the history of the game, for sure. And then 061 versus 2. And he always played really, really well against Michigan. And then to win the Heisman, really the only modern Big Ten quarterback to win the Heisman.
- [36:45]
C
So.
- [36:46]
D
Yeah, I think. Well, not now. Not anymore. Not with Fernando Mendoza.
- [36:49]
B
Fernando.
- [36:50]
D
Yeah, I. But up until then and, and he won it. And I know it wasn't a great year for the Heisman, but like, he won it by like a landslide too. So you nailed it. I think he gets dinged for that last game. And he had idiots going in that game saying, I think Ohio State's got the coaching advantage here because this Urban Meyer guy's on the come up. But like Jim Trestle, five time national championship head coach, including four at Youngstown State. Like, we got the coaching advantage here for sure. Not really, but. Oh, I mean, Ohio State's offensive line just got shattered that game. Kind of like we're talking about Sam Darnold in the cotton ball. I think Troy gets dinged way too much for that national championship game. He still took to the national championship game, won the Heisman. Troy should be in the top 20 in my opinion.
- [37:31]
B
Yeah. And won two one versus two games that year against Texas and Michigan, so. All right, Chuck, where's your biggest gripe on this list? If you have one? Or maybe you just say tip of the cap. Espn. Well done.
- [37:46]
E
I, I actually do say that for all of them. But Troy, this really irks the hell out of me. And I Saw a list, I want to say, I don't know, maybe two years ago, ranking Heisman Trophy winners of the last, like 30 or 50 years or something. Troy was dead last. And I think there's been a total whitewashing of his career based on that one game. And it infuriates me. This was an absolute dude. I mean, a total stud at a time when Ohio State needed a total stud quarterback. And he was there, man, year after year, total Michigan slayer, absolute playmaker at a time where there weren't a ton of playmakers like him. The ball was, I mean, everything about that ball the way through was beautiful. The guy was just a total stud. And I do not understand. I mean, you look at the numbers. No, they're not tremendous in today's era. They were great numbers back then. 30 touchdowns, five picks. It just blows my mind the way he gets so disrespected on these type of things. And it irks the hell out of me. Last 25, 25 years, you got this guy who won the Heisman at 40. That's crazy. We're just talking quarterbacks here, right?
- [38:56]
B
No, I, I think that's. That's very well said. And it is one of those where, I mean, and it's not like it was an under the radar thing, Chuck, you know, like Ohio State in 2006, like, they were a gigantic national story. That Ohio State, Michigan game at the end of that season was a gigantic national story. The, the, the Sports Illustrated cover after Ohio State beats Michigan is the best, period, with Troy Smith on the COVID It's not like jock. It's not like some little under the radar, like, oh, yeah, nobody ever heard of Troy Smith in Ohio State before. It's odd to me.
- [39:27]
E
Huge story. You had a guy, multiple year starter. I mean, the whole country, all college football knew about Troy for multiple years, which generally, like, you're saying, like, guys like that don't tend to get looked back on in this kind of a negative light.
- [39:41]
B
Right.
- [39:41]
E
And I feel like that's why. It's just all I can point to is that game. That game was so consequential for so many. And you guys did a great whole series about what that game changed, which, you know, it really did. And I think Troy is very much affected by that singular game as well.
- [39:56]
B
Yep, I agree. I agree. Landis, where you got here?
- [39:59]
C
Yeah, Troy was my pick, too. I did look. So I think, I believe there are 12 Heisman winners on this list, and the only one that's ranked lower than Troy is Eric Crouch.
- [40:10]
B
Okay.
- [40:11]
C
And a lot of them, like, most of the, yeah, most of them are like in the top 30. And I thought it was interesting that part of the rationale was like, well, you know, they lost handedly in Troy's last game. It's like Marcus Mariota's ninth. Remember him getting his butt kicked in the national title game too? Right. So, like, I don't. It seems like maybe some of the logic was not, was not, was not applied. Like Marcus Mariota, like, was more productive in his career. He's also a starter longer than Troy was. The only other thing that I, I, I don't know if I have a problem so much with, with JT Barrett being 75th, but I think I do have a problem with JT Barrett being 75th and Denard Robinson being 58th.
- [40:46]
B
I don't know.
- [40:47]
C
Like, I know like the NARD was electric, but like this team, like, he wasn't a good quarterback for good teams. He's like, we're putting high stats, bad teams, guys on this list that high now like JT Barrett. And maybe, maybe I'm too close to it. I hold JT in, in pretty high esteem. I think he was, was an excellent college quarterback and his career arc is interesting. So for him to be like that far behind a guy who like just was not a winner in college and just kind of put up stats on bad teams, I thought was a bit off base. And there are a couple other guys in front of JT too. Like Andy Dalton was in front of him, Matt Barkley was in front of him, Zach Wilson was in front of him. It was like, good for one year. So again, like, I don't. Maybe, maybe JT is not better than the 75th best quarterback since 2000, but I do think there were a few guys ahead of him that probably shouldn't have been.
- [41:33]
B
That's interesting because I think part of the, like, if we had a, an Ohio State fan base discussion about JT Bear, even that discussion. Right. Is going to be split in some ways, but I also do think, Chuck, don't you think, a little bit. I think the, the further we get away from JT's career, maybe the more he'll be appreciated. But like, kind of right when it was ending, it was like, why aren't they playing Dwayne Haskins instead of this guy? But then it's like looking back, it's like, this guy's a leader, this guy's a winner. But it is interesting JT is even a little bit complicated for his own team and his own fans.
- [42:06]
E
That is 100 correct. I mean that he was a lightning rod towards the end of his career, you know, amongst the fan base. And it was, you know, it was a pretty big, big argument. Bad. I would say it was close to 50. 50. It was almost a lightning rod in the sense of Ryan Day, should he be fired or not after, you know, that three week period after Michigan and before Tennessee last year. Like it was that kind of deal. Like his last two years with JT and looking back, you know, you see him coaching and there's like all the warm and fuzzies kind of throughout the fan base now. I feel towards JT in a way that there weren't. That lasts maybe a year and a half.
- [42:49]
B
Bill, I'm writing this down from Chuck. We're stealing this idea from Chuck. Most divisive Ohio State fan base moments. And I think that's probably too is like should you fire day and, and, and Barrett versus Haskins at the end of JT's career. Hey, Jack, thanks, brother. Thanks for being on the show for free and giving us story ideas.
- [43:06]
E
You gave me the Ryan Day draft. Me and Biddle are doing that
- [43:11]
B
competing drafts out within the next 12 hours. Get to the final one here. We're going to, we're going to get off the combine a little bit. Get off some of these like off season arguments. It's, it's not that far away. March 10, the first day of spring football practice for the Ohio State Buckeyes. Dave Biddle, we'll start with you on this one. You think about all the guys, almost 20 transfer portal additions in for Ohio State. As we think about what this team is going to be in 2026 now that the hay's in the barn, who do you think was the best transfer portal addition for Ohio State this off season?
- [43:46]
D
Yeah, I'm gonna go with Terry Moore. The safety from Duke missed last season. He was hurt in Duke's bowl game at the end of the 2024 season. So he's going to be, you know, about 18 months removed, maybe 20 months removed from surgery when the season begins. He was very productive at Duke in 2024. Second team, all ACC. You can do a little bit everything. You know, he intercepted four passes that year, over 70 tackles, had a couple of force fumbles and fumble recoveries. And he's not going to be Caleb Downs. Obviously he's not going to be Caleb Downs, but he's a very heady player. So they need, you know, kind of that quarterback of the defense. He's actually more of a Jordan Fuller type than a Caleb Downs. He's more of that center type. Good comparison, but yeah, he's not, he's not going to miss tackles. He might be a little bit more physical than Jordan, but I don't want to say Jordan's not physical, but like, I just think that was a really good get. He's a smart player, he's been productive and now if he injured the ACL early last year, might have a little trepidation. The fact he's going to be so Mike, so far removed from it makes me think it's not, it's not a non factor but I think that being the first injury he's really ever suffered, I think Terry Moore was a really good get and they needed not just with Caleb Downs, they're bringing back Jalen McLean, but they lost Fahim Delane who I penciled in as a starter before the portal arrivals happened and he left. So you're all, you're losing Caleb Downs, you lost Behem Delane. They don't have a lot of depth there. So I think getting Terry Moore I think is going to be the biggest impact player they got in the portal.
- [45:08]
B
It's hard because it's like, well, nobody's Caleb Downs, but people love Jordan Fuller when he was here, Jordan Fuller was super important to what Ohio State did. So you throw it a name like that, it's like, oh wow, that's like a really good player. So. Oh, good comparison. Dave, Chuck, who you got here?
- [45:23]
E
Yeah, to me this is a definitive answer. This is Terry Moore all day. I think if Terry Moore had not heard his ACL and instead would have entered the portal after that year from Duke, he would have been one of the guys that was like, okay, everybody's after this dude. This is a million dollar player type of guy. This guy's got two years of eligibility left and he's going to be an absolute dog. And I think that if that injury healed up right and he is still that type of guy, he's got all the intangibles, right? Super well spoken, really smart guy. Everybody talks really highly about him and on field, total stud can do it all. This is, this is a dude right now and I'm really excited about him. A couple of guys I don't think are, are getting enough shine. I, I honestly think that this Hunter Welsing tight end is a dog man. This dude, when I first saw all right, seventh year guy didn't pop till year six and somehow ranked like number three portal tight end by 24. 7. I was laughing then I watched him. This kid is legit, man. He is a legit tight end. Athletic. The way he moves, the way he catches balls. He's going to be a dog for real. And I'm really excited about him. Pretty excited about John Walker, too. I think John Walker is going to stuff up the middle in a way that's going to keep. Keep us from dropping off too much there in the middle. Big thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this important conversation about mental health.
- [46:54]
F
This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with BetterHelp, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack. But people don't understand when you unpack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to, visit betterhelp. That's better. H E L p.com 89 to get started.
- [47:26]
B
Those are good lists. This is, this is some very good Terry Moore information here. Landis, is that your guy also? Yeah.
- [47:31]
C
Terry Moore and, and Dr. Wilson were the top two on my list.
- [47:35]
B
Okay.
- [47:36]
C
I, I don't know. Like, I, I'm glad Chuck is helping me, like, not feel quite as crazy for being high on Hunter Walsing because there's, there's not much to go off of if you're just like, looking at stats. But if you pick a couple of games from last year, it's like, huh, this guy's interesting. Like, he's pretty versatile. I don't like, you know, they want to do the fullback stuff. He's a much better option to do it than Nate Roberts is. But, but I think he can be in line. I think he can play off. So I'm interested to see what that looks like. But for the sake of naming someone who hasn't been said yet, I, I think Quay Russo could climb this list. Like his, his production does not match up with the recruiting pedigree. And the same is actually true of James Smith, the other defensive lineman they got from, from Alabama. Like, I didn't think either one of those additions was like absol picks for, for Ohio State, but. And watching those guys, just like this past season, Russo broke his foot in September and if you watched him in a couple games before that, I thought he looked much different. Like, like much faster, more sudden, more explosive than he did when he finally returned. Like two months later and played the rest of the season. So I'm not entirely sure what his ceiling is, but you definitely see some of the, the traits that made him such a highly rated guy coming out of high school four years ago. So I, I don't know if he's going to be the best but, but I would put him high up on the list of like kind of most interesting guys they've added.
- [48:57]
B
Okay, I'm going with a guy who I think is Gonna potentially provide two of the defining moments of the 2026 Ohio State football season. And this is kicker Connor Hawkins. And the first one is going to be when he makes the first 50 plus yard field goal for Ohio State since 2019. And people are going to be throwing their babies out of the stand, they're going to sell out of Connor Hawkins jerseys. People are going to storm the field. It is going to be like, do you. I was there when Connor Hawkins made a 51 yard field goal against Ball State. It was the greatest moment in Ohio State football history and it is going to unite this fan base like few other things. And then there's going to come the time when he misses his first field goal of the year and everybody is going to have to like have a self examination of like, do I still love him? Am I still worried about this? Is this the beginning of the end? Is this a one off? What do I think? Because the kicker position and the relationship between Ohio State fans and the kicker position has been so fraught and this guy feels like an answer. And I did go, I have gone through this a little bit. I can't remember what year was, but it was like the Browns when I was doing Brown stuff had terrible kickers and then they drafted Cade York and it was like, Cade York has to come be this hero for the Browns. I talked to Cade York at the combine and said, well you come save the Browns. And he was like, yeah, I'll do it. And they drafted him and he made like a 52 yard field goal to win the game in the opener. And Browns fans, it was the greatest moment in Brown's history. And then like he didn't make another field goal the rest of his career and he got cut and it was like, oh my God, this kicker stuff drives people crazy. Dave, you have a knowing look on your face. You understand the kicker relationship. This fan base is ope is looking for love when it comes to kickers, but they're also open, I think to getting hurt again because it has been quite a roller coaster ride.
- [50:51]
D
Yeah, I'm glad one of us said Connor Hawkins, because I know a lot of fans are fired up about it. When we did a story with the stories on all the transfers, as I'm sure you guys did, like, and then that one, like, it was off the charts as far as, like, the page views, was Connor Hawkins.
- [51:04]
E
So, yeah, man.
- [51:05]
D
I mean, Mike Nugent was, like, automatic back in the day. And then they've. They've had some good kickers since then, but, yeah, I mean, especially during the day era, it's been tough sledding and, you know, I. I sometimes I think it's hyperbole to say it's cost them two national championships, but I understand the argument that's being made there. I give Ryan Day a lot of credit for not being stubborn. He's put a huge emphasis on special teams. He's not like, we're fine, nothing to worry about. He's really, you know, gone. I won't say a complete 180, but he's definitely put a lot more emphasis on it. Bringing in district as a special teams coach and even some of the guys they brought in, like you bring in the Notre Dame kickoff specialist, you're bringing in depth at punter, bringing in depth at kicker. But, yeah, Connor Hawkins, I think I like what you said that the first time he makes a 50 yarder, everybody's gonna christen him and then he's gonna miss a field goal. Here we go again.
- [51:49]
B
Here we go again. Are you. Are you ready to get hurt, Chuck? You ready to get hurt?
- [51:55]
E
This guy's going 18 for 18 this year. Listen, President Carter's jacked up about this, man. You know what I mean? Like, that's how big of a deal this is. I love it. It's a great pick. And no, it's amazing how much of a topic this has become amongst the Ohio State fan base and just how jacked everybody is about a kicker who has that kind of. That kind of resume walking in the door with him and a couple years of eligibility, which, you know, that's kind of. They got away from that strategy. We're going to go with the vets. Not for this guy, though. We're going to get this guy that has some. Some years of eligibility. It's perfect. I love him. He's even a jacked kicker, so that's great, too. The type of guy that could be a real fan favorite if he does what he's supposed to.
- [52:37]
B
Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Dave Biddle. The people love you want to make sure they know where they can find you, how they can partake of all the Dave Biddle content out there in the world.
- [52:47]
D
Yeah, Bucknuts.com will take you right to our page. It's really Ohio State.247sports.com but if you put in Bucknuts.com it'll take you there. And like, you know, it's tough sledding trying to find ideas this time of year, but we're doing it and then, but yeah, like Doug and you guys were saying, like we're about two weeks away from spring ball so you know, shortage of stuff there. I also do some side work for 971 the Fan here in Columbus. So do some radio stuff. So yeah, do the Bucknets Morning five. I do it three times a week. We put it out five times a week. So yeah, check out Buck Nuts when you guys get a chance.
- [53:17]
B
Very cool jock. Where can the folks find you? We know they love you.
- [53:21]
E
I'm over at Buckeye Huddle for all my written stuff and I do a live show every Monday and Thursday night at 8pm over on Buckeye Huddle. You can catch me there. And over at Juck on Bucks I'm pumping out, you know, five, five videos a week over there on YouTube. You can check me out over there as well.
- [53:37]
B
Very cool. Landis. We what are we doing over there on the the Bill and Doug substack week?
- [53:42]
C
We're going to the combine this week. I don't, I don't know what to expect. I haven't been to the combine in five years, six years. So I wonder if it's still as wild as it used to be. I don't know. I'm excited to see what some of these guys say. So we'll write about some of that, do some podcasts out there. Some other stories coming up. I got one coming up on the site sometime on Monday about Bo Jackson's thousand yard freshman season and other thousand yard freshman seasons in the last ten years across college football and how that set goes. Set guys up for year two. So that'll be on billanddug substack os or philandogosu.substack.com yeah, later on on Monday
- [54:25]
B
we'll put it in the show body. Yeah, two great guys, two great guests. As good as it gets when it comes to thinking and talking about the Buckeyes. Dave Biddle, Chuck, we love you. Thanks for coming back. We'll have you again coming back soon foot spring football as we said, right around the corner. Thanks to you guys for tuning in to another episode of the Round the Shoe. For Dave, for Chuck, for Bill, I'm Doug. And that was around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.