← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Behind Jeremiah Smith, who will be Ohio State's second-best player in 2026?
00:58:23
Of Ohio State's Top 22 Buckeyes from the 2025 season, as determined by Bill and Doug, only one of the top seven will be back in 2026 -- WR Jeremiah Smith.
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- [00:01]
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- [00:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Foreign welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. It's around the bad it's just us around the shoe we plan to do this week, but Ohio State is starting spring practice tomorrow, Tuesday, March 10th. And so we did a spring preview last week with Marcus Hartman and Tim May on Around the Shoe. Like we didn't want to do like a an around the Shoe spring preview and only give you a day to consume it before they actually start practice. So we did it last week. And so now we kind of want to save around the Shoe for after we see practice, which we're going to see at least a little bit of it on Tuesday. And then we hope and plan to wrangle two other members of the Beat Bill and bring you around the Shoe later in the week. But we're going to talk on this show about who the second best Ohio State player is going to be in 2026, which gives us one more chance to talk about the roster before spring practice starts. We expect to be able to watch practice on Tuesday and Thursday. But we just like we know people are getting they're accustomed to around the Shoe and we're not giving it to him.
- [02:02]
Bill Landis
I think with good reason. Right. Like, as you just laid out, I think the this week's around the Shoe will just be much better if we wait a little bit and get some information. And we're going to talk to Ryan Day on Tuesday. So that'll all be great. And I think around the Shoe will be better for it. So, you know, we apologize for the delay. We know it's America's most watched show, but it'll we'll, you'll have it. You'll get it this week, we promise.
- [02:25]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I should, I meant to ask you about this when we were chatting it up before the show started do we have like a coupon for Spring Football Ball on our sub stack? Is that, is that something that people should maybe be aware if they go to the substack, they could find it? Or what's the, what's the status of the coupon?
- [02:41]
Bill Landis
Yes, it'll be for spring ball, 18 off an annual subscription at our substack. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com it'll be. It is. Honestly, it'll be easier. We'll put the link in the show description here, but, but then also if you find us on Twitter, we'll share that on, on Twitter as well. Or Blue sky, if you use Blue Sky.
- [03:04]
Doug Lesmerises
Are we on Blue sky there, too?
- [03:06]
Bill Landis
I am. I don't, I never use it, but I have an account because I know some people there. It's just easier than saying the whole mouthful of a link on the show. But it'll be, it'll be in the notes and it can find it on social media. And yeah, it'll be 18% off an annual subscription through all of Spring Ball, like from, from today through April 18th, when the spring.
- [03:27]
Doug Lesmerises
And that's, that's a big savings because a normal yearly subscription to our substack is, is it, it's a thousand dollars. Is that right? A thousand dollars for a year?
- [03:34]
Bill Landis
It's not a thousand. It's, it's, it's 99.99 for.
- [03:38]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh, what?
- [03:39]
Bill Landis
For real? Yes.
- [03:41]
Doug Lesmerises
We do a lot of stuff over there that I've got to say is a bargain in and of itself. And then you're getting 18 off because the spring game is on April 18th. Go over and check it out. We'd love to have you over there. We'd love to have you here. But if you like, if you like this, if you like a little bit of this, I think you'll like a lot of that. Go stuff your face with Bill and Doug. Second best Ohio State player in 2026. We have been doing this the past couple years. We do the top 22 Buckeyes. We do it before the season, we do it during the season. We do a finalist at the end of the season. We think about, like, who are the best players, who contributed the most, who did their job, the best, who were the best football players for the Ohio State Buckeyes. And the reason I think this is a good way to talk about this, Bill, is just sort of reminding people of who's gone and who's back. And the other reason I think is good is because when you're coming off 2024, even though a gazillion Ohio State guys went into the NFL draft, you had Jeremiah Smith and you had Caleb downs returning in 2025, as arguably at that point into the season, during the season, the best offensive player, the best defensive player in college football. Now I'd be like, you want to debate that? You want to debate in the end, David Bailey and Reuben Bane and Arvell Reese against Caleb Downs.
- [04:56]
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Great.
- [04:56]
Doug Lesmerises
He's in the mix. You want to debate Fernando Mendoza and Jeremiah Love against Jeremiah Smith. Great. Jeremiah Smith is in the debate. We couldn't have had this discussion a year ago because we would have been like, who will be Ohio State second best player? We just would have been saying Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith back and forth to each other. It wouldn't have been interesting.
- [05:14]
Bill Landis
No, I, I think we could have said third best. Maybe, like, it felt a little more open after those two perhaps, but that's not as fun as second best.
- [05:23]
Doug Lesmerises
So.
- [05:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, I'm interested to see where this goes because I, I was, you know, just jotting down some names and I came up with more than I maybe would have anticipated. So, again, like, I, like, we've had many conversations about, hey, we don't know a lot about a lot of these guys. And I think that could come off as, like, us portraying some kind of concern about where Ohio State is going. That's not really the, the, the plan here. I actually think it's pretty exciting that we have not a team full of unknowns, but a lot of guys who, like, either half played and can take next steps or guys that we've just haven't seen a whole lot of. I mean, and they're like, kind of mysteries, and we don't really know what they're going to bring to the table. I think that's fun.
- [06:02]
Doug Lesmerises
So from our 2024 list, when we finished it at the end of that national championship season, the top 22 Buckeyes, eight of them were back in 2025, and 14 of them were gone. But the crazy part of that was we had Jeremiah Smith and, and Caleb Downs. I think we had. We had actually Caleb Downs first, Jeremiah Smith second. As underclassmen at the end of that national championship season, the Buckeyes then lost players three through 12 from that team. So they had their top two guys back for 2025, but they didn't have another guy back until number 13. And number 13 was Sonny Styles. And then they lost two more guys, and number 16 was Carnell Tate. So it was like, oh, you only had four of your top 16 back. But all four of those guys, right, are first round picks. Three are going to be this year. Jeremiah Smith is going to be next year. So in the end it was eight of the 22 back this past season and it was numbers 1, 2, 13, 16, 17, 19, 20 and 21 that were back. Do you know how many of the top 22 from the just finished in January are back for 2026 for Ohio State?
- [07:19]
Bill Landis
8.
- [07:20]
Doug Lesmerises
10. So it's two more than a year ago. And again that list, you know, we kind of like debated, we went around, we went like back and forth on guys. A lot of times we ended up with Caleb Downs as the best Ohio State player in the 2025 season. Jeremiah Smith, second, Sonny Styles, Kaden McDonald, Orbel Reese, Carnell Tate, Kaden Curry. So one of the top seven is back. It is Jeremiah Smith. The the 10 guys that are back are numbers 2, 8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 22. From our final list for 2025, the guys that are back, number two, Jeremiah Smith. Number eight, Julian Sayan. Number nine, Austin Seravel. Number 11, Carson Hinsman. Number 12, Kenyatta Jackson. Number 13, Jaylen McLean. Number 14, Bo Jackson. Number 15, Luke Montgomery. Number 17, Jermaine Matthews. Number 22, Edric Houston. Now you certainly are feel anyone can feel free to disagree with that list. But like that's kind of the group that I guess we're pulling from to say who we think the second best player for Ohio State is going to be in 2026. But the other point is when we did this at the end of 2024, neither Kaden McDonald nor Arvell Reese were were in the top 22 for that year because they were situational kind of goal line 250 to 300 snap guys. So there might be somebody who is not on our top 22 list for the 2025 season who is in the running to be the number two player on the team. And all of this is behind Jeremiah Smith, of course, this coming season. Plus we have all these transfers coming in and is it possible, Landis, that we do you think there are contenders among the in transfers to be the actual second best player on Ohio State behind Jeremiah Smith in the 2026 season?
- [09:13]
Bill Landis
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think I again I made like a little preliminary list. There's a couple transfers on there. I was wondering I didn't go back to look this up because you do more prep than I do for these things. Like what's the, what's the highest a transfer has been not like obviously Caleb Downs was, I guess at the interscale of Downs right. In his first, in his first season with the team. So it's Caleb like other than Caleb, like what's the, what's the peak for an incoming transfer in his first year with Ohio State on our list, which of course is the only list that matters.
- [09:44]
Doug Lesmerises
It's only two years old, but Will Howard finished number four in the national championship year after the run that he had in the playoff. So if you look at the in transfers for 2024, Caleb Downs finished number one. Will Howard finish number four. Quinshon Judkins finished, finished number 12. That's it. So those three end transfers in that year finish in the top 22. Okay, but those are some bangers.
- [10:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they're really Good. Yeah. Seth McLaughlin would have been on that list had he not injured him, gotten injured. Yeah, correct.
- [10:21]
Doug Lesmerises
And like the way we did it, for instance, in 2024, we had neither Josh Simmons nor Seth McLaughlin on our final list because when you look at the totality of their contribution to the team, like they unfortunately had that taken away by their injuries. And that's why kind of what we're evaluating it on, I think the best way to run through this is probably to go now. Don't, don't, don't short yourself on your prep work because all I did, I just have spreadsheets and I just double checked. I like pulled my spreadsheets out. But you actually, you know, are bringing ball knowledge. So, so you got your ball knowledge list. So why don't we run through your ball knowledge list to talk about the candidates here. And I, and I do think the thing that I think maybe we're going to arrive at the conclusion at is like, is Ohio State second best player in 2026 going to be as good as Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith like that top two in 2025? And, and, and the answer, like I, at the moment, I would say I, I wouldn't expect that. Right. But I think also maybe the conclusion that we're going to find is that like, do we think Ohio State might go like 17 deep in like a pretty good, those are ball players kind of way. And it's just like a different way that you have talent on your roster. And it's like, it's almost like the conversation of like the SEC and the Big Ten of the playoff race. Like do you want to be top heavy? Do you want to have depth? Like, what's more valuable? It's best if you have both, but like the top. Can I just read it again? Can I just read it again? Because I just would like everyone to let this roll around in your head. You think about this. Ohio State's top 25 players, top 22 players for 2025 that we finished. Caleb down is going to be like a top ten pick. Jeremiah Smith and contention to be the number one pick in 2027. Sonny Styles going to be a top five. Top ten pick. Kaden McDonald going to be a first round pick. Arval Reese going to be like a top five pick. Carnell Tate going to be a top ten pick. Like, those are your six best players and they're all clear first round picks. Five of the six of them probably are going to wind up going in the top 10. As we said, Arvel Reese has a chance to go higher in the NFL draft than he was on our list of best players on his own team. He's the fifth best player on Ohio State. He's the second pick in the draft. That is mind blowing. Landis. Like, that's what we're talking about.
- [12:47]
Bill Landis
You're making our list sound bad, man. Don't tell people that.
- [12:50]
Doug Lesmerises
But it's like, it's just like, well, that's part of that, you know, we don't have to go through again, like my obsession with not Trisha, not using Arvel Reese as a pass rusher more in the second half of the season. It's less about Arvel and the way, the opportunities he had to contribute in a super meaningful way to what Ohio State was doing. But like, again, that's. That's. Carnell Tate has a chance to be it too. Carnel T's number six on our list. Carl, take it. Goes six in the actual drafts. Like, that's what we're talking about. And I just think. I don't know if. If the, the people watching and listening to this need to be prepared for this idea or if they're just like, no, yeah, we get it. But I don't think Ohio State's top six in 2026 is going to be as good as that top six.
- [13:32]
Bill Landis
I don't know if Ohio State's top six will ever be that good again. And that's just like, come on, man. Because. Because honestly it's. It's five top ten picks with Jeremiah. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:49]
Doug Lesmerises
Five top ten picks and like the 24th pick. Yeah, they're six best players. So. But. But I do think that next level, right Then that next level. So if you kind of take out that Level. But the, the Kaden Curry, Austin Saravel, Davison, Ig Big Nose and Carson Hinsman, Kenyatta Jackson, Jalen McLean, like they're just good ball players. And, and especially when it's some of the guys who, who are back that level has a chance to be like really deep. I think they might end up with like 14 Kenyatta Jacksons and Austin Seravelds. And that's still a pretty good winning formula, isn't it?
- [14:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so. You know, because it's not whatever. Like it's fun to have a lot of like high level first round draft picks. I don't think it is a really, it's not a requirement to have like seven first round pickslinger team to like compete for a national title anymore. Which Ohio State, you know, has flirted with in the past, including last year. I think it, I think the, the sort of the middle of your roster. The middle of the, of, of the whatever the top 30 that you like is probably more like crucial when it comes to like the actual, actual quality of your team. Right. You can be super top heavy. And I don't think Ohio State was top heavy last year. But if you like a good healthy middle full of really good football players, that can take you a long way. And I, I think I would be surprised if Ohio State does not have that in 2026.
- [15:23]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. All right. Why don't we run through your list because you did prep that and we'll talk it out a little bit. And then I think by the end of this show, I think I maybe had said it and like, we don't have to come to a conclusion. We'll come to a conclusion. We don't have to have the same conclusion. But I think we should each like make a prediction. And I think the prediction should be at the end of the 2026 season when we do our top 22 Buckeyes. Who do we think will be number two? Because number one is going to be Jeremiah Smith.
- [15:51]
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- [16:44]
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- [17:02]
Doug Lesmerises
So I think we can arrive at that. But let's run through the candidates. Who would you start with?
- [17:08]
Bill Landis
So I only wrote down eight names. There are probably more. So I have eight names, and I, I think the one that's worth talking about first and I, I didn't necessarily arrange these names in, in order, but I think had I done that, the guy that I would put first is a name I think we haven't said yet, which is Julian saying because he's a returning Heisman Trophy finalist and he's a starting quarterback for Ohio State and he's got a ton of talent and a big chance to improve upon last year. So, like, he, I think if you were. Whatever said made an odds board for this, I think Julian would probably be at the top and, and probably have whatever negative, negative odds that's.
- [17:51]
Doug Lesmerises
That also. That. That's the other final, like, ridiculous thing.
- [17:54]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [17:55]
Doug Lesmerises
Heisman finalist, eighth best player on his own team.
- [17:59]
Bill Landis
But I don't think anybody would disagree with where we had him last year. No.
- [18:05]
Doug Lesmerises
And it's like he, you know, he made the Heisman ceremony and then were the Indiana and Miami games his best games. Like, he was higher at the time of the Heisman ceremony. Right. At the time of the Heisman ceremony, he was fourth on our list. So it's like, okay, I mean, he's
- [18:20]
Bill Landis
2, 3, 4, 5. He's. He's sixth in the Heisman voting. Heisman odds right now. Yeah, I guess. Tyler Jeremiah.
- [18:30]
Doug Lesmerises
So we understand what that is. But I do think, like, we, we have already done this show. We would invite you to, to go back and, and watch it and listen to it here on the YouTube channel on the podcast feed. Just like the returning veteran quarterbacks in the country. But as many like there are like, let me just run. Throw out some names again. Right. Just to like, refresh everybody on this. Trinidad Chambliss at Ole Miss, John Matier at Oklahoma. Lenora Sellers at South Carolina. Marcel Reed. At Texas A and M, Sam Levitt at lsu, Gunner Stockton at Georgia, Arch Manning at Texas, CJ Carr at Notre Dame, Rocco Beck at Penn State, Josh Hoover at Indiana, Nico Yamaliava at UCLA, Jaden Maa, USC, Dante Moore at Oregon, Damond Williams Jr. At Washington, Bryce Underwood at Michigan. Who, Darian Mensah at Miami, Kevin Jennings at smu, JKS at Cal. Right. Like we, we get it, right? I mean, there's, there's nobody. Like, I think. Have you seen some offseason quarterback list? I thought I saw like a quarterback. I saw a quarterback draft of the show, did an SEC based show. I think Julian saying was the 10th pick for like best quarterbacks in the country. There's nobody that I'd be like, well, that guy is for sure should be higher on the list. If we were both a prediction of who the best quarterback in college football is going to be, but also an analysis of right now who should be viewed as the best quarterback in college football. I. I don't know. I think Julian sand has a case for number one right now, doesn't he?
- [20:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think, I think it's pretty wide open. A lot of people have Arch 1. Arch Manning, Texas, maybe. I heard him. A lot of people have him one. I think maybe I've seen like C.J. carr, Dante Moore,
- [20:34]
Doug Lesmerises
Sam Levitt, I forgot to say, Brendan Sworesby from Cincinnati to Texas Tech. Right.
- [20:38]
Bill Landis
But Trinidad, Chambliss, Mensah, now that he's at Miami. I, I just. Yeah, there's not a. I don't think there's like a returning slam dunk, like number one guy. I think Julian Saying is absolutely, at the very least, like, deserving of consideration for number one. I don't think he has to be number one on anyone's list for it to have like any credibility. But I've also seen some others that have Julian like eighth or ninth, which I think is probably a little, a little off base. Although I guess I, maybe you would say, like, there's a lot of returning quarterback talent, but it's a little hard to sift through because they're all kind of in similar situations. So you have to arrange them in some order and it pays well when you put Ohio State guys lower on your list. So maybe that's why people are doing that. But I, if I were making such a list and maybe we should do this at some point, like, I would, I would have Julian and the small group of guys that I would consider to put at number one at least.
- [21:36]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, can I. This this came out. We're actually recording this a little bit ahead. So this is a fairly new list from Bill Connolly at ESPN Pre spring quarterback rankings for all 68 Power Four college football teams. You want to take a shot at his top 10 or you want me to, like, read it to you in reverse order? What do you want to do here?
- [21:59]
Bill Landis
Just read it because we'll be here all day if I start guessing.
- [22:03]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, I'll go 10. I'll. I'll start. I'll start low, but I'll read fast. Let's see, we'll start with number. Where do we start? All right, this is a good, interesting place to start. Man, this is interesting how he has this number. 20. Daman Williams Jr. From Washington 19. John Mattier, from Oklahoma. 18. Marcel Reed, Texas A M 17. Bryce Underwood, Michigan 16. C.J. bailey, NC State 15. Bear Bachm, BYU 14. Sam Lem, Sam Levitt, LSU 13. Josh Hoover, Indiana 12. Devin Dampier, Utah 11. Darien Mensa, Miami 12. Byram Brown, Auburn 9. Brendan Swsby, Texas Tech 8. Gunner Stockton, Georgia 7. Drew Mest, Maker, Oklahoma State 6. Dante Moore, Oregon 5. Jade Maa, USC 4. Arch Manning, Texas 3. Trinidad Chambliss, Ole Miss 2. Julian Sand, Ohio State 1. C.J. carr, Notre Dame Is, is, is the thing that I think is interesting about that is I think you could. I think Bill Conley is a good college football analyst. I think you could give that top 20, those 20 names to somebody else. And I think somebody might put like John Matiere third and. And he has him 19th, and I think somebody might put Sam Levitt second and he has him 14th. Like, I think you could throw the top 20 in a hat and like mix it around and come up with a very different list.
- [23:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think you could, too. It does. It seems like there's a consensus like 15 or so that people are kind of working off of when they're doing all these top 10 quarterback lists. But yeah, they're always in a somewhat drastically different order. Like, I don't know, like he, Bill has Trinidad Chambliss third. Like that's, I think, pretty high compared to some other lists that I've seen. Same with Jada Maeve at 5 and then like Dante Moore at 6 is like, to me, doesn't feel super low, but I think compared to a lot of other lists might be super low. So I think it's, you know, I think it's setting up for a really interesting quarterback year, but.
- [24:22]
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- [24:22]
Bill Landis
Kind of to the point of this conversation, it's like I'm. I don't know how you'd be a hundred percent sold on any of these guys being the like, no doubt about it, number one. Which is another way of saying like Julian saying has a definite shot of being that guy this year. Yeah.
- [24:39]
Doug Lesmerises
So I think and, and we're. It's going to be. It's obviously a top, a top five quarterback matchup between Julian Stan and Arch Manning in week two. It's just so different like from a year ago that people were hyped. Ohio State, Texas was a huge game, but it was like Arch had started a couple games the year before, but it was the debut of Arch as the guy of Texas. It was Julian Saenz first start and now they're back for a rematch and they're in such different places and like we are and the idea that Ohio State beat Texas a year ago as by everybody admitting that they sort of like tried to not put too much on Julian saying and they, they won with defense and they sort of told Julian Saya not to make mistakes. And you saw the mistakes that Arch made, you know, the Jermaine Matthews pick and it's like that kind of thing and them getting an Arch's head in the first half. And it was, it wasn't that Julian sand went and won that game, but it was like he didn't make the mistakes to make Ohio State lose in a way that Arch did make some mistakes. Like, oh, maybe I'm asking like, I don't A shootout for Ohio State's going to, you know, average four drives a game again. Then like it's not going to be a shootout but Julian saying Arch Manning 2 is going to be way different than Julian saying Arch Manning 1. And it has a chance to. And then also like with Cam Coleman being added to Texas, I don't know who the second best receiver in college football is is Cam Coleman in the debate behind Jeremiah Smith. So it's like it's two of the five best quarterbacks with two of the five best receivers. Like it's go time. Is that. Do you think that game is going to be much more about Julian saying and Arch Manning the better who the quarterback that plays better is going to win that game.
- [26:26]
Bill Landis
That's what I think it's going to be about. I do. I, I wonder how much of the conversation is actually just going to be about like Arch Manning against Matt Patricia or maybe even, maybe even like Sark against Matt Patricia because I think everybody knows like Ohio's game plan in that game was to not put too much on Julian, but also like no one came away from that game thinking like, I don't know about this Julian saying guy. It just sort of like he did his thing, they won and he moved on. And that was like a defining game for Arch. And it was so. Because of the way that he was defended by Matt Patricia. So I, I think, I think the conversation sort of nationally is going to be mostly about that than it is going to be about the two quarterbacks against each other.
- [27:08]
Doug Lesmerises
The way we do our top 22 Buckeyes, again is like contribution to winning, individual excellence, how well you do your job compared to other people who do your same job. Like we know it as a quarterback sport. The conversation we're just having of like, oh, who's going to be the second best Ohio State players? Like, I don't know, the guy who might be the best quarterback in the country. Should we shut this show down? Are people like, is this a fake show? Is this an AI show? Like, what are they doing? Are they trying to like they're teasing us. Like, we don't, we don't like to do that. We don't like to like, like throw out like sizzle reels. Like we want to have a real football conversation here. Like, like it, does it end here?
- [27:45]
Bill Landis
Is that it?
- [27:46]
Doug Lesmerises
Like, of course it's gonna be Julian. Sam, you didn't caops.
- [27:51]
Bill Landis
I don't think it's quite that it's gonna be close to that. But, but I think, I think there's, I think there's room for, for some more discussion about guys. And maybe that is unfair to Julian because like at any other place, most other places anyway, like the quarterback who's a preseason Heisman Trophy candidate and very possible two time Heisman finalist at the very least is like definitely not even the number two guy. Like the number one guy on, on that team. But it's just a little different at Ohio State. And, and I think, like I said, I, I do think Julian is the favorite, like by a significant margin here. But I, I still think there's worthwhile conversation about a couple other guys who could be number two.
- [28:37]
Doug Lesmerises
So let me ask you this question. If you could make it happen, if you could create the best scenario for Ohio State in 2026 for, to give them the best chance to be the best team possible. Does that scenario include Julian saying being Ohio State's second best player or somebody else being Ohio State's second best player? And maybe even Julian saying being accomplished, but being Ohio State's fifth best Player and maybe being a Heisman finalist. But when we look at it, we look at it like we did in 2025, where we were like, well, just Arvell Reese and Carnell Tate and Kaden McDonald and Caleb Downs, and these guys were just like Kaden Curry. They're just. Were like a little. Sonny Styles were a little better at their jobs. Like, what's. What makes Ohio State a better team.
- [29:33]
Bill Landis
I would probably lean toward Julian being number two.
- [29:38]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [29:38]
Bill Landis
Because that is, like, I think the step that everybody wants to see him take is just to be more of a playmaker. Right. And I. And I think in my mind, anyway, him elevating to being the guy who's number two means that he did take that step. And. And that would be, I think, like, semi transformational for Ohio State as it tries to win the national title. Like, because, you know, Carson Beck was not Miami's best player, but Fernando Mendoza was Indiana's best player. And. And like, yes, made. Made, like, the play right at the end of the game to kind of seal the national championship for the Hoosiers.
- [30:15]
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And.
- [30:15]
Bill Landis
And I. I think Ohio State can win a national championship without Julian saying, like, being quite. To that kind of level of playmaker, but I would feel a whole lot more confident in their ability to do it if he is that. So I. I think I'd go with Joanna number two if I.
- [30:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Maximum Julian saying is 100. What percent do you think we've seen so far?
- [30:44]
Bill Landis
85.
- [30:45]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. So, like. So that's like him, like, at his best. The. The. What a F and throw moment that you had. You know, the scramble against Penn State. Like, I was gonna say, like, maybe have we seen 70? But.
- [30:58]
Bill Landis
Oh, I mean, yeah, I could be a little hot. I. Maybe. I think he's got. I think he's just got a little bit of gunslinger in him that we didn't see.
- [31:09]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, like, command of the offense. When a guy runs open, throw him the ball, scramble more, take like, rip some throws on the. The gunslinger stuff. Like, you know, so accurate on the deep ball. Like, I. Again, I think, like, even though it was, like, only at the end of the year, but, like, you threw a pick, whatever in the last four games or whatever. It was like that. Like, pull a little bit of that out. All that's understandable, but, like, doesn't get fooled on a couple of those reads when a guy's open deep, Julian saying sees him and rips it to him and then the playmaking. So I don't think anybody would disagree on, like, what it is that he adds that elevates him? It's just like, what percentage would you say we've seen so far? But, yeah, I might be more like 70. Because if he's like. Like, what's the play again? Your favorite play where he, like, rolled right and threw the pass in the end zone and did, like, the little hop step, and you were like, that was.
- [32:06]
Bill Landis
No, that was the. I think it was a Washington game. It wasn't. It wasn't in the end zone.
- [32:11]
Doug Lesmerises
It was.
- [32:11]
Bill Landis
It was near the red zone, I think. And he, like, rolled out to his left, turned his body, throw a bullet to Max Claire, I think, on the sideline, and then did, like, a little, like, almost like, Conor McGregor arm swing thing after. After he completed the pass, I was like, oh, this is Julian Sane's, what, fourth start or fifth start? And he's got a little bit of. A little swagger to him. But then, I don't know. I think we saw that, you know, few and far between after that point, which is fine. I'm not saying the guy's got to go out there and, like, be Baker Mayfield and, like, grab his crotch to the other sideline, but
- [32:45]
Doug Lesmerises
I think.
- [32:47]
Bill Landis
I think he. There. There's a part of him that just wants to. Wants to be a guy who maybe lays it on the line a little more plays, and I would like to see him grow into that this year.
- [32:58]
Doug Lesmerises
Hey, Julian, just, you know, why would you say you are on a crotch grab?
- [33:02]
Bill Landis
Ah.
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- [33:24]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, that's a good candidate. Give us another candidate.
- [33:30]
Bill Landis
I'm gonna. So I'm gonna try to, like, arrange these in order, even though I didn't do it. So I would probably go Jalen McLean next.
- [33:39]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay, let's go. Is this basically like a Caleb Downs impersonation? You know, that, like.
- [33:49]
Bill Landis
I mean, yeah, we've seen it. Not to put too much on them, but I. I am interested to see who in the safety room gets talked about as the Caleb Downs replacement. Right. Because I think that this will go a long way and just sort of, like, framing people's point of view on sort of successes and failures this year. And my hunch at the moment is that people will view Jaylen McClain that way, even though that Terry Moore is in from Duke and Earl Little is in and all those three guys are more than likely you're starting safety trio. I think, I think Caleb kind of put Jalen on a little bit of a pedestal with the way that he talked about him at the combine. Now he was asked about him specifically. It wasn't like they said like, hey, who do you like? And he then said what he said about Jalen McLean. He was the name Jayla McLean was first said to him. But I, yeah, I think in terms of like moving around, being around the ball, having more chances to make plays, maybe, you know, make some of those plays that we saw Caleb make in the Miami game where he was hitting guys and knocking the ball out even though the ball didn't go Ohio State's way. Like, I think Jalen's got that in him. He's versatile. I don't know that'll be a captain as a junior, but I could see it. I think he's a strong candidate to be a captain as a junior. And I said this, I guess I said this on the Substack show, right? Like, I'm interested in who's going to be considered like the brain of the defense. And I do think, I do think it could be Jay Lemonade McLean. So I think, I think there's gonna be a lot of eyeballs on him because of the shoes that need to be filled with Caleb moving on to the NFL. And I expect Jalen McLean to play well so that when he does, people are going to maybe appreciate it even more because of who he's attempting to replace.
- [35:28]
Doug Lesmerises
If you want some more spring preview stuff and, and you sign up with the 18 discount over on the substack bill and Doug osu.substack.com We did a 2 hour and 20 minute show last Wednesday where we drafted the 10 biggest questions for Ohio State going into spring ball. So if you want even more of a hardcore spring ball preview, it's over for our Substack subscribers and we talked about coffee for 40 minutes. So people seem to like that I like I'm, I'm falling into a trap, doing this too much now where I say like a ridiculous thing and then a different thing that is almost like opposite of it and say, are we not sure that both could be true? Like, think you're leading me down the line of like. Because we've been, we've. And again, if you haven't been over on subject, we've been talking about this. We would like to work on a the best 100 Buckeyes list. So we've been talking about sort of like some of the recent guys, their placement in Ohio State history. The idea of is Caleb Downs
- [36:28]
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- [36:29]
Doug Lesmerises
of the 10 best players in Ohio State history, and simultaneously, Jalen McClain is just as good as him. Like, is that the kind of thing that, like, by mid October, we will be like. We loved Caleb Downs. He was the seventh pick in the draft. Everybody loves him. But I'm not sure I can tell the difference because Jalen McLean's doing the same stuff.
- [36:51]
Bill Landis
I don't, I don't know that I would take it that far.
- [36:54]
Doug Lesmerises
I'm, I'm, you know, I'm willing to take things.
- [36:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah, no, I, I, I do think, like, he's a, I'm just, like, looking at the PFF grades from safeties last year, and I don't know who all is returning or not, but, like, among power conference safeties, Jaylen McLean was like a top 25 player at his position. So that, I mean, I think by default he's going to be, like, around a top 10 player in his position coming into the season, which in my mind makes him sort of in like all American candidate, maybe. So, you know, Caleb does so many things that I would, I would hesitate to put anybody on that level until we see a little more. But I, I also thought, like, you know, Jalen's first season of. The starter was great.
- [37:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [37:36]
Bill Landis
So he just seems, like, very smart, instinctual. I think in maybe a lot of the same ways that, that Caleb is. And like, you know, how they, how they compare athletically, I'm, I'm not sure. But, yeah, Caleb Downs was thrust into it as a young guy at Alabama and, and swam very easily there. And I think Jayla McLean kind of did the same thing as a sophomore at Ohio State. So I think it's fine to have high standards for him. I, I definitely do. Coming into the season. I just like the standard of a guy who's gonna be a top 10 pick at a position that nobody takes in. The top 10 is a little lofty.
- [38:10]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, we're not gonna dig him. I vow to not come on a show in September and be like, well, Jayla McLean's not Caleb Downs. I don't know what's wrong with that guy. So. Okay, give me another candidate.
- [38:24]
Bill Landis
Austin, Saraville. Okay.
- [38:27]
Doug Lesmerises
I think about this a lot. I don't know why, like, the Heisman discussion where some people are like, it should just be the best player. Should just be the best players, the best football player. What are we doing? It says it. In the, in the thing. And I always talk about, like, it should, I think it should tell the story of the season. It should kind of represent what college football was about that year. I understand why it, it leans towards quarterbacks and high profile people who just have more impact on the game. And I just always think, like, are there people who really, like, just think Quentin Nelson should have won the Heisman? Like, are there just that people walking around who are mad that, like, the best guard in college football didn't win the Heisman one year? Like, what are we doing? So it just makes me think about, like a great guard. Like, how, how high can a great. Now if he's a guard and we've talked about offensive line a million different ways. He was a left tackle last year. Is he going to be a tackle or guard this year? If he's a guard, how high can a guard go? Like, like on a list like this. And again, even though we're saying, like, how, how good are you at your job? Like, I, I wonder about that sometimes. Like, oh, would we really get to a place where it's like their second best player is a guard? I don't know what to tell you.
- [39:44]
Bill Landis
I can. So, so you're here, you're doing this list with me. So if I have the second pick. Yeah, absolutely. Like, I would have. I'm trying to think, like, why. I'm not saying these guys would have been number two because I can't remember, the entire roster was like, Wyatt Davis, I think, is a guy that was that impactful at the guard position. Billy Price, Pat Elf line, Donovan Jackson, maybe more after he moved the tackle. But yeah, I, I absolutely think a guard can be. It won't happen this year, but I think a guard could be number one if they're awesome, if they're the best guard in the country. Yeah.
- [40:21]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you think Austin Seraveld, if he is, if, if he went in and had a meeting with Ryan Day and they were talking about what they were going to do this year and he was like. And they always talk about, you know, individual goals. Right. And if Austin Stareveld said, coach, one of my goals is to be number two on Bill and Doug's list of the top 22 Buckeyes at the end of the year. So whatever we have to do to give me the best chance to be number two on that list, is his best chance playing tackle or is his best chance playing guard?
- [40:52]
Bill Landis
Probably guard. Yeah. Well, it's difficult because, like, I, I think. And a lot of people think the guard is, is more a natural position. Like, I think if he were to move the guard, he could be the best guard in college football this year. And if he stayed at tackle, maybe the ceiling is more like you're kind of a, I think you're the top 10 tackle, which is like, kind of what he was last year, to be honest, at least among power four guys. But I don't know, as we discussed on the Substack show last week, like, the, the Philip Daniels conversation sort of impacts that, right? It's like, because, because Austin Seraphim, I think, is clearly a better tackle than Philip Daniels. So like, I, I just don't know if there's actually room to move Cerebell to guard. He might have to be a tackle again, even if, like, Ian Moore's stepping up and, and Austin Cerebell's returning as you're starting left tackle. Unless Phil Daniels, like, made a pretty big jump this off season, he just might have to play guard. And then you got to kind of keep Serval to tackle. Maybe that's, you know, I, I think he could still be number two on this list as a tackle, but I would feel better about his chances of doing it if you were a guard because I just think he'd shine a little more there.
- [41:59]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. When we talk about, as we talk about some of these guys, again, just where they were last year. Julian Sam was number eight on our list. He's our second highest returning guy behind Jeremiah Smith. Austin Seraveld was nine on the list. He's the third highest returning guy. Jaylen McLean was 13th on the list. He's the sixth highest returning guy. So that's where we are with those first three guys you mentioned. Who else?
- [42:25]
Bill Landis
Kenyatta Jackson.
- [42:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Kenyatta Jackson?
- [42:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [42:30]
Doug Lesmerises
Kenyatta Jackson last year was number 12 on our list and he is the fifth highest returning guy. I, I just had thought all along that Kenyatta maybe had like a little more as just a beat your guy pass rusher than he's shown so far. And he is a like, really good college football player who does his job, plays the run. Like, we had the. I thought one of the more interesting discussions last year was like him talking about, like Matt Patricia in the middle of the year. We talked about the idea of can I let it rip a little bit more? And that Patricia was sort of saying like, as long as you don't let the quarterback escape out your side, like, you can do whatever you want, man. Like, go, go get after it. And I thought he got after it a little bit. More after that. If we, a year ago at this time, if you would have said one of the returning fourth year, first year starter defensive ends is going to be an all American, would you have picked Caden Curry or Kenyatta Jackson?
- [43:28]
Bill Landis
Kenyatta Jackson.
- [43:29]
Doug Lesmerises
So would I. And this is no slight of Kenyatta Jackson. But like, do you, how possible do you think is a production leap like Kaden Curry made last year that you went from a good player to all of a sudden your body slamming the Heisman winner on the first play of the game in the Big Ten championship game? Right. That like you are just. Yeah, that. Is that a reasonable expectation for Kenyatta Jackson? And again, given the fact that maybe there's no Sonny Styles, maybe there's no RVL Reese, maybe there's no Caleb Downs, if Kenyatta Jackson makes that kind of production leap that Kaden Curry did, does that feel like very much in contention to be the number two player on this team?
- [44:10]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think if that were to happen, sure. Kenyatta last year ended up with six and a half sacks and 11 tackles for loss, which is not bad. Like that's a, that's a solid output. He was also second on the team in pressures. He had 45, which like also like nationally was pretty good. Now they're like Reuben Bain and David Bailey are like on another planet compared to everybody else. But Kenyatta was top 20 in the country in pressures last year among Power Four defenders in any position with, with his 45, Kaden Curry was at 46. So he's just won more than him. So yeah, you know, some of the, like whatever you can look at pass rush win rate and some other stuff and those numbers necessarily don't blow you away or you can just like kind of watch them too, which I think is more instructive and, and understand that he's not a, you know, all world kind of pass rusher. I think he's just like a very good defensive end. But I could see Ohio State doing some different stuff schematically maybe this year to try to try to free up Kenyatta as a pass rusher because I, I at the moment and not certain who Ohio State's best pass rusher is or where, like where exactly the, the bulk of that production may come from. And maybe it's more of a committee thing than it is like last year where the guy like Kaden Curry kind of kind of outpaced everybody by, by a significant margin. But I, I think Kenyatta can take a step. Yeah, I think, I think he could, I think he could be A double digit sack guy. And then if he becomes that, then yeah, he's, he's I think making a pretty hard push to be number two on this, this kind of list.
- [45:49]
Doug Lesmerises
And just like it's like one of those things like, oh, why did Ohio State beat Indiana? It's like because Kenyatta Jackson had two and a half sacks. You know, like what was the, what was the game changing play against Texas? It was Kenyatta Jackson beat his guy on third and seven and flushed Arch Manning out of the pocket, made him throw incomplete. You know, like that, like that. That is out there. It's a good name.
- [46:19]
Bill Landis
Last, last three games he had 14 pressures. So he had like an excellent game against Washington where he had eight. Another really good game against Penn State where he had seven. And then like kind of didn't do much for a handful of games. And then he had five against Michigan, five against Indiana and four against Miami.
- [46:38]
Doug Lesmerises
Another name. Give us another name.
- [46:44]
Bill Landis
I would say like, I think this is unlikely to happen, but I do think like the next guy I would go to just based off what they've done so far is probably Peyton Pierce.
- [46:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh, okay.
- [46:55]
Bill Landis
Who was not talking about that.
- [46:57]
Doug Lesmerises
It was not in our list. Like if we're talking about like a, from off the list to into the top 10, top five, he might be the number one candidate.
- [47:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, Peyton Pierce played 263 snaps last year. And again, this is, this is just a, it's information. It's at the end obl. And if you don't value pff, I don't blame you. Among Power Four linebackers who played at least 250 snaps last year, Peyton Pierce had the 11th highest grade in the country.
- [47:30]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [47:32]
Bill Landis
Like he played well when Ohio State put him in there. Now he's like a pure box linebacker. I don't think he's going to give you much in pass rush. He's not probably going to be a huge sack guy at all. I think he's just going to like make tackles around the line of scrimmage and do so in like a way that is not like super captivating. But I, I think it's possible that like at the end of the year we just look like, man, that guy's a solid player. And, and he's all, he's very, it's a Mike linebacker. Of course it would be like he's in the conversation for the guy who's sort of like the brain of the defense with Jayla McLean. So his value I think would extend beyond just sort of pure production but like, I kind of think he's not going to come off the field next year. I think, like, you know, I'm interested, like everybody else is in riley Pettigan and T.J. alford and Christian Allegro and whatever else is going on at linebacker. But I think all of that is happening, like around Peyton Pierce, not with him in the mix. I just think he's gonna be the Mike linebacker on every single important play Ohio State has next year. And I think he can be like a pretty productive tackler. So again, like, I, like he's a bit of a long shot here, but I think he's worth mentioning because I. He's going to play an incredibly important role for this team this year
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- [49:01]
Doug Lesmerises
I, I just am very intrigued by Caleb Downs. His honey styles are awesome. But again, like, Jaylen McLean and Peyton Pierce are not that far away from what they were in terms of production and tying this defense together and making plays. And would they. Are they the same athletes? I don't know. But like, we're just talking about like production and it's not like a gaping hole of where's your Sonny Styles? Where's your Caleb Downs? Like, I'm, I'm just like super curious on how, how, how close they can get to that. Give us another name.
- [49:36]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson.
- [49:37]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. What, what is your, do you have any. Not. I sometimes think that maybe you think Bose ceiling is not like all American. Like the, which is.
- [49:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [49:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Like sometimes. Bill, I don't know. I'm not afraid to say it. Sometimes I think you don't believe that Bo Jackson's as good as Elliott. And it's like, no,
- [50:05]
Bill Landis
yeah. No, I mean, I don't, I don't, I, I. Again, no, no offense to the kid. Like, I think he's a solid running back and I wrote a thing on the substack page a couple weeks ago about like a thousand yard freshmen and what they do after that. We did a show about it here and some of the comments to that were like, I like Bo. I think he's good. I don't know, like the comparisons to the guys who like, made jumps is like Jonathan Taylor, right? Like, I don't, I don't think he's, I don't think he possesses that kind of ceiling. I Think he can be a thousand yard rusher again? I think he can be definitely additive to the offense both as a ball carrier and a receiver. I just don't know about like the, the, the explosivity part of it. Like that's, that's where he has to take the next step. I thought he did a really good job over the course of last season growing in his ability to see things and like making guys miss around the line of scrimmage to make sure he was at least getting, you know, five, six, seven yard carries. He had a couple like 20 plus yard carries that I, that were interesting. You know, chief among them the one he had against Michigan where he kind of did that shuffle step and shook the guy out of his shoes. But there's not really like the, the suddenness into the explosion that I think, you know, the elite of the elite running backs have. I do think there's a little bit of a, of a ceiling on Bo in that regard. I think still think he's going to be their best running back next season but. And their lead running back next season. But I don't. And maybe we've talked about the fact like he's not been a lifelong running back. He didn't have a full high school season. He didn't really kind of take over as a lead ball carrier for Ohio State until a handful of games into last season. He could take a jump because, because of all that. I'm not entirely sure what that jump looks like other than like him being like a very good college running back, but I don't, I don't know that like the, the juices there necessarily of the guys that you would say like are true kind of game changers at the position.
- [52:07]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay, I, I don't, I don't think I disagree with that. Anyone else, anyone else on your list?
- [52:14]
Bill Landis
I would just like lump the two safety transfers together. Maybe Terry Moore or a little junior. It's part partially similar to the Jalen McLean conversation of just like those guys. I think you're going to be in a bit of a microscope under a microscope because of the Caleb Downs not being there. And whichever of them plays well or plays the best, I think is going to get a lot of notoriety because of that. Terry Moore has already shown an ability to play at a really high level in his position and I think Earl Little has a chance to be pretty productive if they're going to use him in the ways that I think they're going to, just being down around the ball a lot. So I Think of all the transfers that were brought in those. Those two guys have the best chance of. Of being high up on this list.
- [52:57]
Doug Lesmerises
And I do think. I don't think it's going to be a transfer. And it's the thing that we sort of talked about when they added this class, that it feels like the. The idea of the transfers is more to bring in some solid football players to allow the existing guys who are back to really flourish. So Terry Moore is here to be a good football player, but also to allow Jaylen Mcclain to do his thing. And I think, you know, John Walker and James Smith as defensive tackles are here to be really good football players, but also like to allow Edric Houston to do his thing. And Christian Allegro is here as a compliment in the linebacker room, but it's really about Riley Pettajan and Peyton Pierce doing their things. And I just think that is, you know, I. I wouldn't be shocked if. And this is like, almost with the assumption that the transfer class will be solid if there's no transfers, like, in the top six when we get to the end of next year. But there's a bunch of transfers like 11 through 19, and I think that would be success. I think that would be a successful team. I think it would be a successful version of roster building, and I think it would be a successful transfer class for Ohio State.
- [54:04]
Bill Landis
I think it would, too. I actually like to put a different spin on the question you asked me earlier about Julian saying, I actually think if one of the transfers ends up being like a top three or four player on this team next year, I don't know that that would be great. Like, if you were trying to forecast what that meant, it would mean, like, a lot of guys who are being counted on to be, like, younger stars for this team didn't quite hit the way they were supposed to. Yeah.
- [54:28]
Doug Lesmerises
Is that your full list?
- [54:30]
Bill Landis
Those are all the names I had down. Yeah.
- [54:32]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. The only. So, like, Carson Hinsman is a guy who is, like, you know, pretty high up on our list, but it's like, do we really think a city like the center is going to be. He wasn't all American last year, so, like, I don't really think he's a huge contender to be the second best player, even though he's fourth. He was 11th overall for us last year, so he's fourth among the returning guys. Probably the only other guy that I would maybe throw in. And it's just like, funny. It's like, well, what if Devin Sanchez or Jermaine Matthews like really jumps up and has a All American year. Corners like I don't think it's impossible. I maybe would throw in Edric Houston and the reason I would throw it like a year ago you were very high on Edric Houston. He was number six on our preseason list a year ago and then it just didn't happen. But what if that none of that was wrong. It was just early and then it's like, oh yeah, Edric Houston's the best player on this defense. Like that. Like I, I don't think that feels now it would require a leap. But if it's sort of like the way they scheme it up again like they've brought in some guys, you know, if he has like a real professional guy like, like John Walker doing work next to him and like Edric Houston can just. You worried about being disruptive. And he really believes like, you know, like Peyton Pierce and Riley Pettigohn are just like solid guys behind him doing their job. And Edric Houston's kind of like to go, go get the quarterback guy. Like I don't, I, I could see it and, and then if he is that it's. And again that's like that would be what Kate McDonald is. So Edric Houston actually wound up 22nd on our list. So he's not off the list. But the kind of leap that Kaden McDonald made to go from a situational guy to an All American and a probable first round pick. I think if Kaden McDonald could do it, I think Edric Houston can do it.
- [56:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think he's worth considering. I, I do wonder he had that knee injury like on the first day of camp last year and he didn't end up missing any time for it that I can recall. But I like, you know, how much did that hinder him? Maybe over the long, over the longer course of the season he had like, he had a real dip there, like kind of September, October where he was, he just wasn't playing a lot. And then there were some sparks like on the other side of that, but nothing like super consistent. So got. There's a lot of talent there. Clearly he's a five star prospect for a reason and maybe you know, he made the switch from men to tackle and you'd love to see that hit immediately, but maybe it does take a year or two for it to really hit. So. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't have his name down, but I think of, if you think about just, you know, recruiting pedigree, at least he belongs in the conversation. There are no. Yeah, there's not like there's 15 guys who are former five star prospects are going to be playing a lot for this team this year and he's one of the guys who is that. So, yeah, I think he's got a shot. I, I need to see. I thought he'd have much more of a pass rushing presence in the middle than he's shown so far, but if that, if that clicks for him, then, then he can definitely be a guy at least in consideration.
- [57:27]
Doug Lesmerises
So if you're watching this on YouTube in the comments, go ahead and put who you think Ohio State's second best player will be in 2026. And Bill, let's make our official predictions. Who do you think Ohio State's second best player with the assumption that Jeremiah smith is number one. Who will be their second best player in 2026?
- [57:43]
Bill Landis
I'm gonna roll with Jalen McLean.
- [57:46]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. And, and like, like probably if you're Ohio State's second best player, you're probably a first team all American. Right? Like, I don't think they'll only have what they have, seven this year. I don't think they only have one next year.
- [58:00]
Bill Landis
One. Right.
- [58:01]
Doug Lesmerises
There's just Jeremiah Smith. Yeah, I've always liked this guy. You persuaded me on it with a couple of your stats at the end, but I'm gonna go with Kenyatta Jackson.
- [58:12]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [58:13]
Doug Lesmerises
And like, and to me that would be a year from now. Just like you're talking about Kenyatta Jackson. Kind of like the way that Akeem Mezador and Ruben Bane are getting talked about right now who are guys who are in college a very long time and then were gigantic contributors to winning at the end. And if that's what Kenyatta Jackson ends up being. And then like if second best player on Ohio State and then like the 13th pick in the draft or something, like I, I could see it. I think that's what maximum Kenyatta is and I think there's a chance that he gets there.
- [58:54]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Bane, by the way, he had 45 pressures in his first year in Miami. And then the second year he was unhealthy the whole year he only had 28 and then he skyrocketed to 83. Okay, so like guys do make jumps like that for sure. Yeah.
- [59:11]
Doug Lesmerises
And like a 45 pressures that's around like what'd you say Kenyatta had last year?
- [59:15]
Bill Landis
45.
- [59:16]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. All right. Kenyatta Jackson is Reuben Bain. I like it when we get to a conclusion. Bill, thank you for your help. On that.
- [59:23]
Bill Landis
No pressure. Kenyatta. Yeah.
- [59:28]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. That's the conversation that will lead us, as our final thing into spring football, which starts for Ohio State tomorrow on Tuesday, March 10th. We will be there to watch it. We will be there to talk to Ryan Day after practice. We will be putting a lot of stuff on substack. We'll be putting a lot of stuff on this YouTube channel and this podcast feed. We'll be back at practice then on Thursday for the same thing to watch some stuff there, talk to people afterward and like, it's go time. Like, spring football is going to be here. They're going to do it this week. Then they have a spring break and they're, they're a week off. Then they really get into it after that. So the Bill and Doug show, we think we offer well, we do the best that we can. That's all we can say. We give you the best Ohio State coverage that we possibly can. We do it here. But we Also, with the 18 discount that you can find in the show description, or if you just want to go to billanddugosu.substack.com you'll find the link over there. Sign up for a year subscription and get 18 off because the spring game's on April 18th. All right.
- [60:22]
Bill Landis
That's right.
- [60:22]
Doug Lesmerises
And I kind of wish the spring game was on April 4th, to be honest.
- [60:26]
Bill Landis
At least it's not on April 99th.
- [60:32]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, free free year for Bill and Doug. Thanks as always to you guys for hanging out with us for now. He's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lemurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show. Have you ever wondered if you work to live or if you live to work? Neither do we. Corona La Playa awaits.
- [60:59]
Bill Landis
Relax responsibly.
- [61:00]
Doug Lesmerises
Corona Extra Beer, imported by Crown Import,
- [61:02]
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