Carnell Tate out, Jeremiah Smith limited in Ohio State's blowout of UCLA: Live postgame show

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Carnell Tate out, Jeremiah Smith limited in Ohio State's blowout of UCLA: Live postgame show
Date: November 16, 2025
Main Theme:
A postgame breakdown of Ohio State’s 48–10 win over UCLA, centering almost exclusively on the injury statuses and future availability of top receivers Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith—a storyline that eclipsed all other aspects of the game for fans and analysts alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Injury Updates: Carnell Tate & Jeremiah Smith

• Tate was out, Smith was limited:
  • Carnell Tate did not play for the second consecutive week.
  • Jeremiah Smith started, played three series, then left, seen moving stiffly postgame.
• Ryan Day’s Postgame Comments:
  • When asked if Tate and Smith’s injuries could be long-term:
    • “He said no. And I think that's probably the most important answer of the post game... that these could be long term, that the situations could be long term. He said no.” — Doug [03:21]
    • Doug and Bill note: If it was long-term, a coach likely wouldn’t confirm, but the “vibe” of his “no” felt authentic.
• Comparison to JSN Situation (‘22):
  • Many fans referenced the 2022 Jackson Smith-Njigba saga.
  • Bill: “At no point were we thinking that what was going on with Carnell Tate was along the same lines of Jackson Smith [Njigba]'s hamstring injury.” [01:55]
  • Both hosts argue the current situation is distinct—mostly because there’s no sense of confusion or evasion from staff/player body language.
• Smith’s Visible Condition:
  • Doug watched Smith walk off slowly and gingerly, “like he was stiff.”
  • "He stopped and signed three autographs... I thought he was walking much better... like something had loosened up." — Doug [08:10]
  • Fans and hosts speculate if it’s a leg or back issue (no official specifics given).

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2. Fan Reactions & Program Transparency

• Rumors & Load Management:
  • Pre-game, some speculated neither WR would play as load management.
  • After Smith played, then left hurt, this switched to “Why risk him at all?”
• Bill: “I don't think it's freak out mode.” [10:07]
  • Both hosts agree the body language from players, coaches, and teammates doesn’t reflect panic or a season-altering problem.
  • “If anyone at Ohio State truly thought that they could be without Carnell Tate or Jeremiah Smith long term, don't you think we'd be able to tell?” — Bill [12:21]
• Teammate Input:
  • Doug recounts Brandon Inniss postgame: “Is there reason for [fans] to be freaking out?... No, it’ll be fine.” [13:15]
  • Inniss downplays the concern, reinforcing the “nobody’s panicking” mood.

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3. Magnitude of the Injuries for OSU's Outlook

• High-Stakes Context:
  • Doug: “The only thing that matters is are Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith going to be healthy for the Michigan game and the playoff run.” [10:37]
  • All other topics (run game, OL, etc.) are sidelined in fans’ and media’s minds.
• Bill on Team Dynamics:
  • “This offense becomes something very different when Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith don't play... evident here tonight.” [15:06]
• Load Management vs. Reps:
  • Debate over whether to “bubble wrap” stars (especially against Rutgers), or get passing game reps with backups in case worst-case scenario unfolds.

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4. Game Play Analysis—After Injuries

• Passing Game Without Tate/Smith:
  • Noticeably less efficient:
    • After Smith left: “He was 5 of his last 11, I think for 30, 44 yards. And 21 of those were on one play. So, it was out of sync.” — Bill [20:08]
  • Youth and lack of chemistry with backups evident.
• Julian Sayin’s Performance:
  • “Once Jeremiah went out of the game, he was under 50% completions for the guy who completes 80% of his passes... not as in sync.” — Bill [21:30]

5. Backup/Young WR and RB Development

• Notable Receiving Reps:
  • Bryson Rodgers, Mylan Graham, Quincy Porter, and Brandon Inniss saw extended play.
• Backfield Production:
  • Bo Jackson, Isaiah West, and James Peoples all impressed:
    • “All three of those young guys seem like they're starting to get it a little bit.” — Bill [36:06]
  • James Peoples’ hurdle for a TD: “That's perfect form... That guy knows what's up.” — Doug [36:06]

6. Other Game Highlights

• Special Teams:
  • Lorenzo Styles’ 100+ yard kickoff return—the first for OSU since 2010. Noted as possible new role since he’s described as “fastest on the team.”
• Run Game and O-Line:
  • Gabe VanSickle earned praise for OL rotation; team ran for 200+ yards for first time since opener.
• Defensive Rotation:
  • Early removal of star S Caleb Downs; second-half gave significant snaps to younger defenders.
• UCLA/Rivalry/Schedule Outlook:
  • UCLA described as “non-functional” (esp. without Nico Iamaleava). No impact on OSU’s big picture.
• Candid National Picture:
  • “This is the best team in college football…. And the only thing that matters is are they going to be healthy when it matters the most.” — Doug [47:34]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Only Story That Matters
  • “There’s only one story from this game, is that correct?... The injury status of Carnell Tate who did not play, and the future prospects for Jeremiah Smith.” — Doug/Bill [00:30]
• On Ryan Day’s Injury Answer
  • “He said no. And I think that's probably the most important answer... The idea that these could be long term... He said no.” — Doug [03:21]
• On Pervasive Fan Panic
  • “I think we're basing the information more on like Carnell Tate... he was in a jacket and sweatpants... hanging out on the sideline... not like a vastly injured person.” — Doug [06:07]
• On What Actually Matters
  • “The only thing that matters is: are Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith going to be healthy for the Michigan game and the playoff run....” — Doug [10:37]
• On Young RBs Stepping Up
  • “Peoples and West each had 30 plus yard runs, and People’s had that 19-year touchdown run. That might have been honestly the best run anyone’s had for Ohio State this year.” — Bill [36:06]
• On OSU's Status Nationally
  • “If Ohio State is healthy when it matters the most, they are the no doubt about it, odds on favorite to win the national championship.” — Doug [47:34]

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Timestamps for Critical Segments

• 00:30 – Opening and setting the focus: injuries to Tate and Smith
• 01:55 – Context of Tate/Smith vs. JSN comparison
• 03:21 – Ryan Day’s postgame answer on potential long-term injuries
• 06:07 – Field observations of Tate and Smith’s demeanor
• 10:37 – “The only thing that matters” is WR health
• 13:15 – Brandon Inniss reassuring fans postgame
• 15:06 – Why this situation isn’t “another JSN”
• 20:08 – Passing game drop-off after Smith departs
• 21:30 – Sayin’s completion % impacted by Smith’s absence
• 36:06 – Peoples’ hurdle TD, young RBs progress
• 40:54 – Special teams highlight: blocked punt, Styles return
• 47:34 – Recognition of OSU as the country's best team, but health is everything

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• Candid, slightly irreverent, and fan-focused—true to the Bill & Doug Show’s vibe.
• Hosts balance humorous asides (“throw your feature story right out the window”) with genuine concern and thoughtful analysis.
• The central message resounds: Regardless of the lopsided win and all secondary storylines, the fate of Ohio State’s season—and possibly the national title chase—hinges not on the run game, quarterback play, or even rival analysis, but entirely on if Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith are healthy and ready down the stretch.
• For those seeking more than a scoreline or stat sheet, this episode delivers a comprehensive, boots-on-the-ground sense of what OSU fans and insiders should—and shouldn’t—worry about heading into the critical week.

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“If Ohio State is healthy when it matters the most, they are the no doubt about it, odds on favorite to win the national championship… And so congratulations everybody. Good luck with your feature stories. One thing matters with this team right now.”
— Doug, [47:34]

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Duck Show. Post game, Ohio State defeats ucla. And we are doing what we can here in the post game Processville. We're in the home radio booth and we have a lot of information to share with everybody. There's a weight loss commercial playing in my ear also. Can we get the nice. Our producer to turn this off? Turn off.

[B]

Just hit that X right there. You got it. There you go.

[A]

My goodness, we're professionals. Bill Landis, Ohio State defeats UCLA 48, 10. But there's only one story from this game, is that correct? Yeah.

[B]

The injury status of Carnell Tate, who did not play, and the future prospects for Jeremiah Smith, who played, what was it, three drives, I think, to the point, I believe, where Ohio was up 17 nothing. And then I think came out of the game. There might have played a player too, after that.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yes. What is the status of those two moving forward?

[A]

Yes. And by the way, we are. We're running hot here in the press box at Ohio Stadium. We both attended the game today. If you, if you hear anything or see anything that is junked up, you guys are the producers tonight. So thanks for being unpaid. Producers of the Bill and Duck Show. Oh, okay. Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. Carnell Tate did not play. Jeremiah Smith, as you said, played several series and then went out of the game. Let's start with the post game. Let's start with what Ryan Day was asked about. We did, I asked. Ryan Day is the final. You and I were. Had the mic and we knew we had to ask about injury questions. And it was the final question. And we asked about the process of figuring out what is going to happen here. And at your recommendation, the name Jackson, Smith and Jigba was put in. I put into the question at your recommendation because we. That's the context that Ohio State fans are bringing to this discussion of two injured receivers.

[B]

I mean, I, I sort of saw that last week when Carnell didn't play against Purdue. I think people went there pretty quickly and I think rightfully so kind of backed off of it because it was one game. And then as this game got closer and there was really no clarity on Cardinal Tate's status coming into this game, partly because of our own faults, without asking about it during the week, that seemed to ramp up a little bit. I just, I saw it a lot on Saturday, like in, in the hours leading up to this game, and then we find out that he's not playing. And of course it kind of reaches a fever pitch. So I think it's worth asking, right? That that's what people are. Are concerned about. I think rightfully so with the way that Ohio State handles injuries. I don't think you or I at any point were thinking that what was going on with Carnell Tate was along the same lines of Jackson Smith Tingla's hamstring injury back in 2022. But I do think it needs to be asked. And part of that is the way that Ohio State handles stuff. And part of that is just good oldfashioned sort of information gathering as you're trying to figure out what's going on with Carnell Tate. So. But yeah, you, you put that to Ryan Day and I don't know what would you say you would, you would say. He said that they are not comparable situations.

[A]

He said they listen to the doctors, they listen to the medical staff. And then in, in the process, because it's like, how do you decide? Because, because one of the things here tonight, Bill, it was interesting. I don't want to. Here's the information. The information is I just hit my head on the back wall here.

[B]

We're fired up about information.

[A]

I said, do you or do you have concerns that these are long term injuries or whatever my phrasing was for.

[B]

Either of these guys.

[A]

And he said no. And I think that's probably the most important answer of the post game are like the idea that these could be long term, that the situations could be long term. He said no. And if the answer was yes, he probably wouldn't have said, oh, yeah, no, definitely that's possible. I think they both be out for the year. Like he wouldn't have said that. No. But I certainly have seen some fans who watch the postgame like interpret that like, oh, they felt like that was a forceful no, that that was a believable no. They're asking us, do we believe him. I think we're basing the information more on like Carnell Tate was here. He's not in bubble wrap. He was in a jacket and sweatpants and hanging out on the sideline and. And like he was part of everything going on, right? Yeah. And Jeremiah Smith played then. It was interesting that the pre game discussion, Bill, with our all our loyal subscribers on substack, I think they're, you know, when Jeremiah Smith was questionable, Carnell Tate was listed as out. That's the injury report that is officially released two hours before kickoff each week by Ohio State. I think some people are like, oh man. Questionable for Jeremiah Smith. Is this load management? Like, are we not going to see either of these two great receivers, just because they're. They're playing it safe or whatever. They're just. And then once Jeremiah Smith played and then he was favoring something, then there did seem like this discussion turned a little bit of like, why did this guy play at all? And I followed Jeremiah Smith off the field. We could talk about that in a moment. But it was interesting that I think it started off with like, okay, are they really hurt too? Holy moly. Why aren't these guys in bubble wrap?

[B]

That definitely happened. But although I would say watching the snaps that Jeremiah played, I don't. Did he look hindered at all to you? Slower, not himself in the snaps that he was playing?

[A]

Clearly there.

[B]

There's plenty of shots.

[A]

Now.

[B]

I know people have seen him walking around up the tunnel on the sideline. He was. He was fairly gimpy, but I don't think he played that way. But I think it's, you know, when you see him walking around that way, it's certainly fair to ask whether. Whether or not he should have played that. That question actually was not asked of Ryan Day. Ryan Day only got, what, six questions, something like that post game, and only two of them kind of were about injuries. So, yeah, it did turn. It did turn to sort of like, why. Why did Jeremiah play if that's how he's gonna be walking around on the sideline? I don't think the fear is right that he played when he shouldn't have and somehow made it worse.

[A]

Yes, that is the fear. I think that's a good characterization of what Ohio State fans, what there were fears on.

[B]

I don't know that that is what happened. I think maybe just the nature of what he's dealing with just sort of tends to kind of stiffen up on you if you're not running around, is kind of my interpretation of it. But again, that is just an interpretation not based off of anything that was asked after the game today.

[A]

Yeah. And. And pointed out here by Blake. Nobody in the post game actually asked Dave what the injury to Jeremiah Smith was.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Did not get out.

[B]

No specifics, sir.

[A]

So Jeremiah Smith. So I went down on the field as the game was ending and Carnell Tate was sitting in a folding chair and Jeremiah Smith was sitting on the bench. And this was while the. The offense, the Lincoln Keyhole second string offense, was on the field. So a lot of the offensive guys were in the game or up standing along the sideline. There was a backup offensive lineman sitting next to Jeremiah Smith as he sat on the bench. He had a Gatorade towel on his head. And JT2 Molo was sitting on a folding chair with. And it was sort of like Carnell Tate, Jeremiah Smith, and JT2 were all hanging out. Once the offense then scored that late touchdown. The backups then, like, Julian sand came over, and he was hanging out with those guys. And Julian sand was joking around and smiling and saying something to Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith. And, you know, it was. You know, Jeremiah had the talent, his head. It was. It was. It was not like a medical ward. You know what I mean? Carnell. Carnell Tate's just kind of sitting there like this, like, with his hands in his pocket, like the coolest guy in school. Like, he's. He's not sitting there like a vastly injured person. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So then I walked your. I watched Jeremiah Smith the whole time he walked off the field. He stood up, and he stood up slowly. And he was accompanied by CJ Barnett, who was a staff member who is very important, involved with players. And C.J. barnett walked with Jeremiah Smith all the way off the field. And when he got up, he was walking very slowly, and he was walking very much like he was stiff. And so my initial inclination was that I thought maybe he was favoring his right leg. Is this a soft tissue thing in his right leg? But then a lot of people. I sent that video. I'm not able to show it here, unfortunately. I'm just not able to do it right now. But I did send it to our Substack subscribers, and a lot of people there are saying, like, this looks like a back to me. Something with his back. And he was just walking very, very stiffly and gingerly. I wouldn't say that, like, C.J. burnett had his arm around him kind of, but I wouldn't say that C.J. barnett had to help him walk.

[B]

I think he was steering him through the people who were going to stop him.

[A]

And he. He stopped and signed three autographs, two for kids and. And like, a person who was one of those people who's like, hey, best player in college football who's incredibly injured right now. Is it okay if my selfie requests take 17 seconds instead of 3? And it's like, do you have awareness of things going on around you? I thought as he walked, he stopped and he sang Carmen Ohio. And then when he got done with Carmen Ohio and he was walking to the tunnel, I thought he was walking much better than he was. When he initially got off the bench. He was walking like someone. Like something had loosened up that he wasn't quite as stiff, he wasn't quite as tight. He was noticeably still limping, walking stiffly limping. He was not grimacing in pain. He was not holding any part of his body. But when we watched him in warmups, we initially thought maybe that it was something with the right leg or a muscle with the right leg because it felt like maybe he was touching his hamstring or something like that. But I thought he looked pretty good in warmups. What did you think about warmups before the game when we were all wondering, will he actually play?

[B]

Yeah. People noted that when the team walked into the stadium for the first time that he was walking a little gingerly. I thought he was walking a little gingerly out of the tunnel onto the field for warm ups. And then he just kind of started jogging and then went through all the routes on air, full speed. And I thought he looked fine. Including, you know, they would, they go through kind of the full route tree and the last thing they do is run like a 40 yard go ball down the sideline. And the one to him actually he was like kind of, kind of not going full speed and then he realized the ball was going to be out a little ahead of him. So then he like turned it on around underneath it and caught it and it was like, well, that looks like Jeremiah. So there was nothing, like I said, nothing about warm ups and nothing about his actual play on the field, where I thought to myself, this guy shouldn't be playing, doesn't look like he's going to play kind of thing. It was just kind of after the fact as he was standing on the sideline where it was like, oh, no, he looks like he's favoring him a little bit.

[A]

He didn't play injured, he walked injured after the game. Yes. And I think if you were watching, trying to watch on the sideline during the game, whatever TV was showing, maybe, maybe you saw some of that. I don't think it's freaked out. I, I don't. And there are a lot of people in the chat on YouTube. We appreciate everybody being here. If you want more coverage, you can find us on substack. Billandduggosu.substack.com like, subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug show. I don't think it's freak out mode. I, I don't. And, and we're trying to parse words. We're trying to figure out the tone of Ryan Day's voice of like, was he walking 60 stiff and then all of a sudden he was only walking 36 stiff. We're not doctors, we're not mind readers. But again, some of this stuff, like, if people are really worried about, like, what's going on with stuff like, are guys arrested? Carnelte was here. Carnel Tate was here with his teammates hanging out the whole game looking relaxed, looking fine. Jeremiah Smith played in this game. So if the discussion is like, and, and it is the discussion, it is literally the only discussion that matters about Ohio State right now. The run game doesn't matter. The offensive line doesn't matter. Of course, those are little things like the kicking game. Great. All the things we talk about all year. The only thing that matters is are Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith going to be healthy for the Michigan game and the playoff run. It is the only thing that matters about Ohio State. And so there are a lot of people in the chat here on YouTube, I think, saying, don't play next week against Rutgers. And so it's hard to argue with that. But I, but again, if they don't play next week, like, I don't think it's a five alarm fire. Right. He was stiff walking off the field. This is two straight games Carnell Tate has not played. And Carnell Tate, the difference, you know, last week was sort of a surprise. This was. He's out. He was out on the injury last week.

[B]

He warmed up last week. He was not on the injury report, dressed, warmed up. Nobody thought anything about it until Ohio State went through its first drive and he didn't play.

[A]

Right. So we, we want to give you all the information that we have. I think that's all the information that we have. Right. Yeah.

[B]

Can we. Is it okay to like go off vibes a little bit?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

If anyone at Ohio State truly thought that they could be without Clarnell Tate or Jeremiah Smith long term, don't you think we'd be able to tell? Don't you think they'd be walking around looking like they've seen a ghost or something? Or like, know that their season is kind of on thin ice? Whether it's Ryan Day at the podium, Julian saying the podium, Brandon Innis, after the game, I know you talked to and asked about it. Like, coaches can like play games of player availability and, or try to. And, and programs can. I don't, I don't think players can or do. They just like what they don't really. They're not incentivized to do so as much as coaches are. So there's been nothing about the vibes really from anyone After Purdue or after this game where I, I'm, like you said, approaching freak out mode. It's like you said, it's the most important thing with the team. We have to, we have to cover it until there's resolution. But at the moment, I'm certainly expecting both those guys to be able to. What, Ohio plays Michigan.

[A]

I think that's fair. I did ask Brandon Innis about it after the game, and he said, is there a reason? I was just, you know, it's one of those questions, Brandon. You know, fans are gonna, they watch Jeremiah Limp off the field. Carnell Tate hasn't played two straight weeks. They might be freaking out a little bit. And basically, is there reason for them to be freaking out? And he was like, it, like, whatever the paraphrase was, it was, no, it'll be fine. Like that kind of thing. So. And, and Brandon Innes, you know, it's one of those things, like, what else could he say? I mean, he could say, I don't know, it's just next man up, whatever happens, you know, and like, he didn't.

[B]

He didn't say that.

[A]

It's not his job to give an injury report. Maybe I shouldn't be putting him in that situation.

[B]

But he's a captain.

[A]

He, he's a captain and he's, he's a very smart person that I think has a really good handle on this locker room, as evidenced by last year. And there was not an indication from his answer that it was like, oh, wait, like, like they're not telling us something. So I do think. And, and, and it is reasonable. We talked about this in the pregame show, Bill. We have people who are bringing up the JSN stuff, and I understand why I say fans being scarred by that, but I just think, I think the situation has changed. And we talk about that in the pregame show. That, that was like, okay, these are amateur players. Why are they going to put this on anything at risk when they're not getting paid? And there's a huge contract waiting in the NFL and Jackson Smith and Jacob is leading the NFL and receiving nerds. Like, how could you say that he made a wrong decision there for whatever happened with that? I, I understand if, if, if fans and we have people in the chat saying that it feels like that. I, I don't, I don't think it's an apples to apples comparison yet. So I just. And we're going to be as try. We're obviously going to be as honest with you as we can be and provide every Information, bit of information we can get. We don't have a ton of information right now, but I. I'm not there yet.

[B]

No, I'm not there yet either. I think there's a lot of. A lot of the circumstance of this that's very different. The money that the players being paid. I think, I think you're right, that. That might. That might get a guy on the field in a sort of a questionable situation more than it has in the past. I think if you think about that team, right, in 2022, you had Marvin, you had a mecca. The offense, Jackson's with the jiggle was certainly a large part of that offense. And they had to like Grant grand plans for what they were going to do with him and had to change them on the fly. But it's not like that offense became suddenly dysfunctional because Jackson, Smith and Jigba was not in there. This offense becomes something very different when Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith don't play that much. I think was. Was evident here tonight. So, like, Ohio State knows that too. Like, they're not gonna. I'm not saying they're gonna rush guys onto the field recklessly, but I do think if it's at all questionable, again, like, that might push them more in the direction of like, these guys gotta play like that. They are the offense there, have to play. And then they're trying to do a thing that a team here has never done before.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're trying to repeat as national champions. And I think Jeremiah and Carnell want that on their legacy as much as everybody else in the building. So I'm not nearly there with the JSN stuff again. I get it. I like 100% get it. And I'm not saying your, like, initial concerns or feelings about it are. Are like sort of off base just from a feeling standpoint. But I think that, like, in actuality, it's not quite the same situation.

[A]

We have Michael saying feels like the panic button. Comparing the two, Kyle says, this is nothing like jsn. This doesn't feel like JSN to me, says Justin. So, okay. I mean, that's. That's good. So we have, you know, I think people are pointing out, like, was there a play where there was a missed block many weeks ago was against Wisconsin that and Jeremiah Smith got hit and there was maybe something with his back there.

[B]

He definitely was favoring his back after that play. And I said on our pregame show on subsec, I think I've said it at other points, right? Like, Jeremiah's played great. I think there have been times this year where you're like, he doesn't look quite as explosive as he normally does. And I wonder if there's been anything at all lingering from that play against Wisconsin where he got kind of upended and did seem to be favoring his back after that. But again, like we, to the, to the point made earlier in the comments, we didn't ask for specifics on that injury so we don't know what, what that was.

[A]

Yeah. And as Chris points out, Jeremiah Smith also had a crazy one handed catch tonight. So like what are you gonna do with that? Like that's, that's pretty wild.

[B]

Rucker's game is going to be on noon at Fox. At noon on Fox. Ruckers, is it a big noon? I don't know by definition.

[A]

Big noon on Fox. Maybe they shouldn't put Colonel Tate and Jeremiah Smith in the promos. Milan Graham, young man. Like. And, and I think we're at the point. Great area Megan here. I think we are at the point with fans where having, I don't say like lived through this tonight. I don't think we're getting any questions before the rush group. If, if innocent. If Jeremiah Smith and or Carnell Tate are limited, don't play are on the injury report for the Rutgers game. I'm not sure we're going to get any responses from fans that are like aren't they really hurt management? I think the load management discussion ended when Jeremiah Smith like walked off the field at the end of the game with a stiff back.

[B]

Yeah, we're, we're past that. They were doing some of that in this game with some of the slides, some substitutions they were making. Yeah. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. But no, that is clearly not what is going on with the two receivers. Yeah.

[A]

Bob says we're overthinking it. Okay. Yeah, very well.

[B]

Yeah, Certainly possible. Yeah.

[A]

So, okay, this. So, so it's the only story and it's one of these things like someone was talking about like, oh, we're nitpicking receiver help. This is not nitpicking. These are the two like the best receiver in college football and then whatever. The second, third, fifth best receiver in college football. One hasn't played for two games, one walked off the field super stiff. It's like that's not nitpicking. Like this is actual stuff. Some of the other stuff that has been discussed around Ohio State this year is a version of nitpicking of like, is any team perfect I was talking to somebody in the building the other day. It's like, oh, only 19 of your 22 starters are playing at an all Big Ten level. Let's make sure we talk about the other three incessantly. Right. And. But that's the nature of the beast. That's the reason we're talking about this so much is because it is real. Right? It is real. And so. But we don't. There's nothing. I'm not sure there's anything else to say about that. If people have questions in the chat about something regarding Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith that they feel like we have not covered, we can certainly respond to that. But I also am interested in how you thought the passing game looked in their absence once Jeremiah Smith was out of the game. We got a lot of run from Bryson Rodgers all night. We got a lot of run from Island Graham all night. We certainly saw Brandon Ennis rise up and play like a veteran in a lot of ways. What did you think of the passing game without these two guys?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, once Jeremiah went out of the game, it wasn't great. From the 10 second mark of the first half, which was the path to Brandon Ennis in the end zone that went incomplete until Julian Saying came out of the game. He was 5 for his last 11, I think for 30, 44 yards. And 21 of those were on one play. So it was out of sync. I actually, I wasn't one. One of the things I want to go back and rewatch because I noticed some people in our live chat saying that maybe they felt like some of the routes were not exactly what they needed to be. Maybe there was some confusion on some of the play calls because you are playing some. Some younger players who just have not.

[A]

Not played a lot.

[B]

So perhaps that happened. Bryson Rogers had three targets, two catches, 27 yards. Quincy Porter had one target, one catch, 14 yards. Mylan Graham, seven targets, three catches, 40 yards. It did seem kind of like most out of sync when Julian Saying was throwing to Mylan Graham. There was the one that kind of went off his hands in traffic. There were a couple others that were just like kind of nowhere near a place where I thought Mylan Graham could make a play on the ball. So I think it was pretty evident that the rapport with those guys is not as strong as it is with Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith, which is not surprising. Julian Saying didn't disagree with it, but sort of like didn't really give that much credence when asked about it after the Game. He said it was more. He just felt like he was a little off with his mechanics.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which he has said before. It's probably like worth a follow up, I think, for. For Ryan Day later in the week.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I. I'm curious sometimes with quarterbacks if there are days where like you just sort of don't have it. Like if it's anything like a golf swing or like a baseball player when I could swing this a little out of sync. Can quarterbacks go through that too? And if you see any of that with Julian saying tonight he said his ankle wasn't bothering him, but definitely appeared to me at times that it was. But yeah, just. Just not clean. Saying overall efficient but. But once Jeremiah went out of the game, he was under 50 completions for the guy who completes 80% of his passes on the season. So clearly not as in sync as it needs to be.

[A]

He was under 50 without Jeremiah in the game.

[B]

He was 5 of 11 on his last 11 throws.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Which synced up basically with when Jeremiah left the game.

[A]

Okay. It was a weird game. It was a weird night. It was raining for parts of the game. UCLA is just not in a place to compete when Nico Yamaliaba is not on the field. And I. There were some misses from saying. And again, like this is more nitpicky, but there were some misses that was like, oh, that wasn't really close to anybody. That a couple on the sideline that were like, well, I don't know if even if the rally wasn't run with the precision timing that you normally have when it's with the ones that still was like airman a little bit or that really missed in a way that we're just not accustomed to. But he felt rushed.

[B]

I don't know if that is. I think so There was a weird. The weird play in the first half in the second drive, I think where it was. I actually thought it was like a kind of a dirty play. The guy like dragged him down. I think like by the definition in the NFL would have been a hip drop tackle. It would have been a personal foul. But they don't do that in college. And saying got kind of rolled up on and then he had the screen shortly after that where he kind of planted weird and was limping afterward. And it did feel to me perhaps like maybe he didn't trust it as maybe he didn't trust as much his ability to navigate the pocket and escape pressure, which he's been excellent at all year. So then he got sped up a little Bit either on downfield throws where he was inaccurate or probably got spun up into taking a check down a time or two when he shouldn't have. Most most notably at the moment where he just, he missed max player running wide open down the middle of the field for what would have been a touchdown. So, you know, he, he was off.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's game 10. It's kind of the first time he's been off, in my opinion. And I don't think there's anything that makes me think, think he'll continue to be off. But it is kind of a thing you want to dissect a of lot a little more just because it's sort of the first instance of it happening, I think.

[A]

And it's, it's one of the things, like, why, what is the point? Like what, what is the point of the discussion? It's like, okay, if Julian saying looked a little more off tonight than he has in most games. Okay, let's diagnose that. Why? Well, Cornell Tate didn't play. Jeremiah Smith didn't play for half a year. Okay, well, that's the reason.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then it compounded by him getting a little dinged up.

[A]

A little dinged up. So then the question becomes, okay, well, if he's healthy and he. After like it was a rolled ankle, right, that he said, yeah, see, if he was running on the sideline, kind of stretching it out, he had gone into the tent briefly and he was fine and he played on that. But it's like, okay, if he's healthy and Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith are back and then what are the issues? And then it's like, well, then there are no issues. So then it only then we come back to like, the only thing that matters is the health of these guys.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

And it, and it's hard. But then I think again, the thing that that is. Is difficult about all of this is Ohio State lost to Michigan last year in part because their quarterback got banged up during the game. And then it's like, okay, so you're saying if some part of the three man passing attack, if, if you were taking one of those guys out of there or one and a half of those guys out of there, or 11 1/4 of those guys out of there. Now if that happens or is happening against Michigan or in the Big Ten championship or in a playoff game, then what? And the then what is? Well, that injuries have an effect on every college football season. Injuries are negative for every team. We've seen teams that actually Absolutely. Get torpedoed when they have devastating injuries. But then are we going to sit and have a conversation now like, well, could Lincoln Keenholtz, Bryson Rogers and Quincy Porter and Myelin Graham win the national championship? It's like, wow. I don't think that. That's not exactly where we are. Right. That's not the conversation to have right now. But then it goes back to the only thing that matters about this team right now is the health of these guys.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think, I think that's right. Yeah. Not to talk in circles about it because I'll even say like the ankle thing with saying, yes, it's something to monitor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I think it's at least a small part of this conversation. But he also on the touchdown pass to Bryson Rogers, he like booked it out. That was. Right. It was like running pretty good and threw a pretty nice pass on the move.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it didn't seem like his ankle was really impacting him then. So I, I think I would chalk more of what we saw up to just probably lack of reps with those receivers in particular and the timing not being quite what they needed to do.

[A]

Didn't you think there was a play where he took a sack and it maybe looked like Milan Graham was open for a second and you said, if that was Jeremiah Smith or cried, I'll take. You think he would have thrown it? Yes, but he didn't want to risk it.

[B]

Yeah, that would have been. I think it might have been the opening drive of the second half. Trying to recall what happened. Oh, it was the play where they like, they blitzed and I think Bo Jackson initially stopped it, but then like kind of let the guy leak through. So Julian had to get off the spot a little bit. But you can see him, he's like ready to throw and he separates his hands and then he brings it back together and he's kind of tries to run forward and gets tracked down from behind. And if you watch it, sort of look on the wide view, you do see, I think Myelin Graham kind of coming open on an in breaking round. And it's easy to pick these things apart when you're not looking at it from behind the quarterback or anything like that. But yeah, I thought that in that moment had one of his mainstay security blankets been running that route, he probably would have thrown it.

[A]

Moose is saying Jay Richardson on ABC 6 said that Jeremiah's injury looked like a pulled hammy. Thoughts we're not doctors. Again, like that. I sort of initially, having watched him walk all the Way off the field. Thought it was like, it looks like as he's limping that he's favoring his right leg in some way. And after having watched him go through warm ups, I thought maybe that. That maybe looks to me like a right hamstring. But then so many people since then who have watched the same video have said back then, I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, I can't believe he's Jay Richardson. Like, we can't. We can speculate, I guess, but no one knows.

[A]

Yeah. Was anyone talking about the fact that the hit on sand was late and cheap?

[B]

Yeah, I said it was a dirty play. Yeah, yeah, I thought it was.

[A]

I.

[B]

It was, it was. It was a smidge late. But more than that, I thought it was dirty the way that that guy slid to the ground and tried to drag Julian down with him.

[A]

Yeah, he got, he got kind of pulled in a weird way, an unnatural way. You hate those things. Like anything when you're like, you're doing like an unnatural move to a guy to, to bend his leg the wrong way or. It's funny that I think like the guy, remember last year the Northwestern guy who like in the pile or whatever, like twisted Jeremiah's ankle.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That guy's really good. Now that guy who did it last year was kind of like, I don't know. That is some backup. And it's like that guy had a pick today against Michigan. Anyway. Okay. I think I say we just run it 60 times versus Rutgers. So, so, so here's the thing.

[B]

It's like the worst defense of the country. Country coming out of that.

[A]

But it's also like. But what is. Like, what is the point? Because so, so like what is the goal against Rutgers? Is the goal to moderately bubble wrap the best players on this team and just make sure that this. Everybody is as healthy as possible for Michigan and beyond? Maybe.

[B]

I think, I think, yes.

[A]

But to me, part of it would be and I think part of it was I was on display tonight. If people are not anticipating, people in the Woody are not anticipating that these are long term things with Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith. But what if they are. What if they get re aggravated? I think you still need to work out your passing game. A passing game that does not include Carnell Tate and or Jeremiah Smith to some degree. Because if for some reason something happens what that are related to these card injuries or not, and all of a sudden you're in a playoff semifinal and Julian sand is throwing the ball to Quincy Porter, Brandon Ennis and Bryson Rogers do you think you can win that game? And so that's what I and people are saying, like don't play Julian. Well if his ankle is any kind of issue, okay. But I would be very interested I think still if I were Ohio State in working out Julian saying and the number two receivers in pursuit of the worst case scenario where these two best receivers in the country are out. So I don't necessarily agree with like shut it down and run the ball.

[B]

No, I think there might be a balance you need to strike there. You know, first and foremost, I think is, is Julian south, is he okay to play? Based off what we saw today, I think, I think he would be. And based off how he was talking about it after the game, I think he would be, I guess, you know, we know how that goes. You wake up the next morning and it feels a little different. We'll see. But yes, like you have to at least entertain the possibility. Even as you and I don't believe this is like a long term thing, you have to entertain the possibility that it could develop into one. And then like you still need to bring your passing game to the postseason because that's the other thing. Someone asked this in our chat, like Ohio State locked up a playoff spot tonight, right? Like they're gonna play in the playoff. So yes, whether or not and we think they'll have Jeremiah Smith in the offensively what it's been in the playoffs. But to protect against the whatever percent chance, even if it's less than 5% chance that you might not, clearly Julian needs to get some throws in with these receivers. So if he's healthy enough to play, I think you do need to work on that a little bit next week. Maybe it's not the, the full on game plan, right. And maybe Lincoln Keenhol does play a little more if that's the case. But I don't think you can just sort of shelve your passing attack when you need to get those reps with joy. And the young receivers.

[A]

Like subscribe. Tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. Join us on Substack Bill and Doug osu.substack.com if you want to go check out our friends at roback.com r h O-B-A c-k.com they have all kinds of like cool game day collection kind of things. They got polos and hoodies and quarter zips. They have like casual like little subtle sharp Ohio State logos on. Then if you use the code BAD20, BAD20, you'll get 20 off your first order. And by the way, like you know, we go, we get a little something something in return, right? And we're just two guys.

[B]

We appreciate it.

[A]

Trying to make it in this crazy world. People thought Gabe Van Sickle looked good.

[B]

A couple of those big runs pop when Gabe Van Sickle was out there. It did. It felt like maybe because he got back to back drives which I actually don't think in this entire time where Ohio State has been rotating at the right guard spot. I'm not sure we've seen the guy who's rotated and played back to back drives before and gave it Sickle got that today. But then on that last drive of the first half Tigers bowl came in and then Tiger was was back in that spot at the start of the second half. But yeah, the run game, it did seem like Gabe, Gabe played okay again. That's the thing you kind of have to go back and watch. It all comes with the qualifier that UCLA's run defense is bad. But I thought there was some nice movement, just movement generally up front. And I would say at the very least I didn't notice a drop off when they started rotating in right guard. And there were definitely moments where they felt like there was some improvement there because there were again a couple breakdowns with Tiger Chabola early look by and large probably a fine game from Tegra all things considered. But enough of those things that people have been concerned about all year popping up still and and I was actually surprised it was gay Ben circle. I I thought once we saw the Joshua Dia wasn't going to play I thought Ethan on the Alma was going to rotate in. He didn't in fact like he didn't get into the game on offense until the second team offense was on the field with looking keyholes. And then Oniyama was playing the left guard when that happened. Oh which I don't think he's played yet this year. So he's played right tackle, right guard and left guard now Ethan on the other.

[A]

But he played left tackle at Rice.

[B]

Last year and he played left tackle at Rice last year. So he's got versatility. But again like not the guy who's knocking on the door to rotate in with.

[A]

I don't disagree with this. Someone said like the whole point is that is Julian and getting Julian ready for this. But I mean obviously. But I actually thought it kind of was a little bit of a thing that Lincoln Keenholf led the second team offense down the field this quarter that.

[B]

You miss three for three 34 yards.

[A]

You've got to work that out. And Ohio State fans don't need a lesson in backup quarterback history. But when you see a guy, and it's one of those things I, I wrote earlier this year that I think Lincoln Keenholtz is the exact kind of backup quarterback you would want for a team like this. That he's been around, that he knows the offense, that he's not some transfer who just got here, that they're trying to teach the culture and show them what the bathrooms are and make sure he knows all the play calls. Like he knows what's up. And he's been through it. He was in a competition with like, with Julian sand and I just thought, you know, it's not the top of the list because Julian Sam had a tiny little ankle turn and you want your best players out there to win a national championship. But Ryan Day would have been that if they didn't score.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. That was like a long sustained drive too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

12 plays, 75 yards, I think was a nice. Primarily running it, but that was a nice try from, From Keno. Yeah, it's just good. I mean, there have been a lot of times the last couple of years where the second team offense has gotten into the game and done absolutely nothing.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I actually think, you know, we've not seen it a ton, but when we've seen it this year, guys look pretty good. That's like mildly encouraging.

[A]

Yeah, but that was good. James, people's hurdle.

[B]

The guy, awesome hurdle. Great, great touchdown run there. Great touchdown run at the end. He seems like, he seems like, it's like maybe starting to figure it out a little bit. Like it's interesting, right, because C.J. donaldson did not play. Yes, there's other injuries on this receiver, but C.J. donaldson did not play. And then just kind of collectively Bo Jackson, Isaiah West, James Peoples, I thought all played pretty well in Ohio state. Rushed for 200 yards for the first time since the Ohio game. And they all kind of. Peoples and west each had 30 yard, 30 plus yard, or excuse me, Jackson and West had 30 plus yard runs and People's had that 19 year touchdown run. That might have been honestly the best run anyone's had for Ohio State this year. So all three of those young guys seem like they're starting to get it a little bit.

[A]

James, people's hurdled a guy and he said he was a hurdler through his sophomore year of high school before he focused on football. He said his mom was a great hurdler. He said his dad also hurdled and I showed him the screenshot of his hurdle and he said, that's perfect form. And so that guy, that guy knows what's up. It was nice to see. And he sort of admitted that like Captain Key was saying, like he's just practicing better. Just like he's. I think these young guys running hard and maybe running it like they don't know what they don't know. And I think something. Not that James Peoples is a super veteran guy, but he got a few carries last year. He's more veteran than 50.

[B]

So two true freshmen.

[A]

I think maybe you can be a bit too careful. And then it's like, oh, what's Bo Jackson? Who's like, I don't know. Bo Jackson just running, trying to run people over.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like, what's Isaiah west doing? I don't know.

[B]

He's going north, south.

[A]

And I think that something. He sort of said it after the game night. Something clicked in with James Peoples once those guys, he was, he was too tentative early in the year once those guys started running hard. And so we've, we've talked about the run game all year. This was a nice night for the road game.

[B]

Yeah, it was. I, I think I said at the onset of, at the outside of this sort of three game stretch, Purdue, ucla, Rutgers, it should look good because they're all, they're all bad defenses, they're all bad against their own. But, but it's nice to build confidence and you know, schematically I do think they're still trying to figure out exactly what they need to be hanging their hat on. What's just the offensive line best. But I, I definitely think you can see the confidence growing with, with the running backs, all three of the, of the young ones. Because the other thing with James, people you have to consider is like, yes, he's more experienced, he's a sophomore. The other guys are freshmen. He did get 50 carries last year was in garbage time. Right. He's running against backups. Lane's closed. Pastor, when you're playing against starters and guys hit harder when you're playing against starters. And he was definitely working for. Through a lot of that early in the year and probably pressing knowing that, you know, the job was kind of up for grabs and there were, there were three or four guys vying for it at any moment. But it does feel like he's gotten past that and I think started with the Penn State game. Actually at the end of the Penn State game, I thought he ran really hard and that sort of carried through to this game. So when C.J. donaldson was not asked about because we were so keen in on the receivers. But I, I wonder if, if he. We said like, you know, it's going to be Jackson and West and then balancing situationally well. Bo ran pretty well in short yardage today and all three of those guys ran better today than like sort of a normal situations. And Donaldson has all year. So I don't know, maybe there's some more movement there than I realized. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, and it, and, and it does matter. Of course it matters. And, and it was example of something tonight. I mean this is actually the whole point of why we talked about the one game all year. Because it was like, just guess what? This was the worst night for the past game all year. So what they do, they ran for 200 yards. Yeah. And again it's. Again, UCLA is terrible. Yeah. They are non functional. I don't know that well. It's because Nico played. But like Nico Yamalia, they had nothing. They had, they had nothing. They moved the ball against the backup defense at the end of the game. They had one other like one drive. Bob Chesney maybe for that JMU coach Bob Chesney be a great hire for UCLA if they can make that happen.

[B]

I bet their defense is better.

[A]

Yeah. So, okay, we're. We're leaning forward because we're trying to read some of the comments in the YouTube chat. Someone said. Doug just Mitch McCobble. Oh, that's. I did it on purpose. I did it for effect. I didn't freeze. That's for effect. Ucla, that was an awful performance. That was among the worst Big Ten teams that I've seen come in to Ohio Stadium in 20 years. And Ryan Day said like, you know, the word came out late last night, like Nico's not playing. But also, who cares?

[B]

Yeah, it didn't really didn't. The line didn't move until it was revealed the Carnell Tate wasn't playing and Jeremiah Smith was limited.

[A]

Yeah, I like, I could give two squats about who UCLA's quarterback is or what effect it had on Ohio State because this game is over. UCLA's quarterback has no effect on your life. The rest of your entire life. And Carnell Tate, Jeremiah Smith have injuries. So like, I don't care about. There's not what, like I, I'm. If you're writing a feature story right now, throw your feature story right out the freaking window. Because it doesn't matter. We have a bunch of feature stories. We like a whole plan for next Week about like, oh, we could do this and we could do that. I was like, oh, talk to people. It's like, just analyze like Jeremiah Smith's post game walking gate in nine different ways and have that be the entire story. Oh, UCLA's punt that was blocked was amazing. I thought initially that the punt possibly Hiten Curry right in the jewels.

[B]

And it was.

[A]

No, it hit him in the armpit. But I don't know. We had a great debate with the great theory. I mean, not a debate, but like, we're trying to figure, like, what is that? Because, like, what did they determine? Is it a block? Is it a tackle for loss? Like, it's. What is it when you just line drive a ball right in a guy's armpit from four feet away?

[B]

It's on paper, it's a block punch. Yeah, we all saw it. It wasn't.

[A]

Yeah, Rucker's at noon. Caleb down. So that was interesting. That was one other interesting thing is that Caleb Downs came out first. That he was the first guy removed defensively. I don't know that he played in the second half. He did not. And then they, they sort of started pulling out more and more guys. It's like, okay, what's on that drive? So there's no Kenyatta Jackson, there's no Davis Inosan, there's no Caleb Downs. But look, I still see Orville Reese, I still see Sonny Styles. Oh, wait, now Riley Pettigon's in. That means that Sonny Styles isn't in. But no, I still see Kaden Curry and I still see Jermaine Matthews and you know, it's one of those. This is not. It's not a huge deal, but he is part of the, one of the primary defensive packages, like a couple, couple rough plays for Devin Sanchez tonight.

[B]

Yeah, Got beat inside on that 51 yarder, which actually. Is that the longest playoff this year?

[A]

Oh, maybe.

[B]

I think it might be. And then got caught kind of in a bad spot in man coverage on the crosser that led to UCLA's touchdown. So, yeah, they got picked on a little bit. They're kind of the second time this year that someone has picked on him because Illinois did it, like, for a drive and, And I think scored on that drive, too. So. No, he's a freshman. I think there have been moments where I think he's played okay.

[A]

He was 11th in snaps for the defense coming into this game. Like, he's getting a lot of reps that really matter. As you project him to probably start.

[B]

Next year, I think you Know, the good plays and probably more of the bad players are the ones that kind of get burned into your brain as a cornerback.

[A]

So.

[B]

So hopefully he'll. He'll learn from them and we'll see where he goes. Yeah, he definitely was kind of the culprit on that one. I think it was a five play, 75 yard touchdown drive.

[A]

Okay. Oh, interesting. Okay. Oh, okay. Kaden Curry got hit by punt keep.

[B]

Return for a touchdown.

[A]

What's that?

[B]

Kick off return for a touchdown.

[A]

Oh, kickoff return for touchdown. I did not get. Lorenzo Styles didn't come out.

[B]

I didn't get to him.

[A]

We did not get to. But what did you hear someone say about Lorenzo Styles?

[B]

Brandon Innis was asked who is the primary kick returner, was asked about Lorenzo Styles, if he was surprised that he broke one, the first kickoff return for a touchdown for Ohio State since 2010. And he said no, because Lorenzo Styles is the fastest player on the team.

[A]

How about that? That's awesome.

[B]

He looked pretty fast. Yeah. It makes me wonder, like, why he hasn't been doing it more. Yeah, I don't. He might have done it when he was at Notre Dame a little bit.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

He's a former receiver. He's got ball skills and he can run clearly, so. And that was that kind of thing. He brought it out of the end zone. I don't like. And I guess it's hard to tell he only gets credit for 100 yard return, but that was more like 104 yard.

[A]

Heck yeah. Yeah. And he almost kind of slipped in the end zone. It's funny. Ryan Day said. Or Lorenzo said it. Ryan Day agreed that, like, once he came out, like, he better do something with it. And he did. Great block by Joey Velasquez inside. Kind of just rode with the guy all the way across the field and eight on the block. And then Brandon Ennis, who's usually back there, is one of the guys, got a great block on the outside and they just made a scene for Lorenzo Styles. And so, you know, special teams, stuff like that can matter. It just hasn't mattered at Ohio State's first kickoff return for touchdown in 15 years.

[B]

You were in middle school? I was in middle school and I actually, I remember I. I talked with Uran Meyer about it a while. I might have shared the story before. Who was I talking to him about? Oh, it was around the time where, like, Paris Campbell had, like, gotten close to breaking a couple. Urban said, like, Paris Campbell is the ideal kick return because he's got great long Speed, but he's also kind of big and he can run through tackles. And like now just like having like, seen that play happen, it's like. Well, that's kind of like Lorenzo styles. He's like 6 1, 2, 10, 2, 15 ish. Right.

[A]

Nice defensive guy. He's gotta have a little something to him.

[B]

He's a physical player. Yeah. I don't know. He did not get the next return. He's kind of always back there. But the ball sort of always goes to Brandon Innocent and it's got the one after that. But maybe next week they'll let Lorenzo bring another one.

[A]

That'd be interesting. No. So people are asking like, Davis and I was just saying that, like, as they started to pull starters out of the second half just for rest, just to get backups, reps, you know, there was a drive where I think maybe they had seven or eight starters out there, but Caleb Downs wasn't out there. Kenyatta Jackson wasn't out there. David and Iggly Nelson wasn't out there. They were just rotating some of these guys through. And this is one of these things again. Bama lost. Whatever. I guess I have to think Bam was great because everyone yells at me when I try to pretend the fame was not great. I picked Bama to win this week just because it's. Now it's good for the SEC that Oklahoma beat Alabama. Now Oklahoma's gonna make the playoff. Old Miss tried to lose. They would have lost, except DJ Lagway threw a horrendous pick. And then when Ole Miss tried to give the game away at the end, the refs picked up a passenger interference flag for some reason when it's clearly was past interference. So I don't know if Greg Sankey made the call and said, like, we're picking that flag up or whatever. And Texas A and M tried to lose. So, like, I don't, I don't know what's supposed to happen, but I'm sick of people trying to tell me that the SEC is anything but mid and Ohio State, 148 to 10. Admittedly against, like, I'm not sure UCLA beats modern day right now. Mean, modern day has like more 5 stars on it than UCLA put on the field tonight.

[B]

Yeah, they do. Which is part of UCLA's problem, I think. I don't know. I might give him a shot against high school.

[A]

I don't know. I don't know. Okay, so like, that's like, I, I, I. Is there anything we didn't cover? Is there anything that I'M forgetting here, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not frazzled, I'm not frozen. But I just want to reiterate. No. And I think the people in here watching get it like this is the only thing that matters. Like the run game's back in shape. They're getting, they'll get right guard figured out, whatever, you know, like it's hard to have 22 perfect starters. The defense remains arguably the best unit in college football. USC's offense supposed to be super efficient. Like they got down two scores against Iowa to come back at the end of the game at home in a rainstorm to find a way to beat Iowa 26, 21. That's a nice win. But it's also like, okay, well USC is good. They're not perfect. Like there's, this is the best team in college football. They are the only team like the closest they've been pushed to the wire was by Texas in the opener when they had a quarterback who's trying to figure it out and a new defensive coordinator calling a defense for the first time and a new offensive play caller. And so whenever, any time that people.

[B]

Try to bring up, you know, Ohio.

[A]

State only be texted by this, it's like that was a, that was a brain brand spanking new Ohio State in a lot of ways and they have been, I think gradually finding themselves and improving over the course of the season and nobody, and even that game, it's like it wasn't exactly ever like truly, truly, truly endowed. And everybody else in the country has lost or been pushed to the absolute wire because Indiana got pushed last week against Penn State and Texas A m was down 273 and had to come back. And no, they were down 33. 33. The biggest, I mean whatever the, the, the SEC is filled with a bunch of mid losers and so it's like, okay, congratulations on getting down to a bad South Carolina team and then congratulations to South Carolina for freaking handing the game over. I actually think Texas A and M is good, but it was just a reminder that this is the best team in the country. They haven't been pushed like that. And the only thing that matters is are they going to be healthy? Are they when it matters the most? Because if Ohio State is healthy when it matters the most, they are the no doubt about it, odds on favorite to win the national championship. Nothing is guaranteed. But when they are healthy and playing their best, they clearly are the best team in the country. And so congratulations everybody. Good luck with your feature stories. One thing matters with this team right.

[B]

Now, I have nothing to add to.

[A]

I did. I did see the UCLA equipment truck before the game. It's a nice. It's a nice truck. I love equipment truck.

[B]

Is it blue?

[A]

It is. It's nice, light blue. And the one thing, the one thing I will say is that when you and I were watch. We're watching, like very intently along with everybody else on the beat pregame with, like, Jeremiah Smith coming up, and you're just getting glances of guys coming out of the tunnel and you noted. And it's just a very astute point that, like, you can go like this and you can confuse Arville Reese and Jeremiah Smith just because their hair is a little similar. And I'm not. I think it is a great compliment to both of them that you can look at a receiver and a linebacker slash defensive end and perhaps initially not be sure which one it is because the linebacker, defensive end looks like a receiver and the receiver looks like a linebacker defensive end. And it's why they right now are playing like arguably the two best players in college football.

[B]

Yeah, I do it all the time when they're walking out of the tunnel because I just kind of catch the hair first. You'll go, oh, there's Jeremiah. Nope, that's Arvella. Jeremiah's behind him. But yes, physically, physical profiles, not all that different. For guys who play very different positions.

[A]

That would be one of those, hey, if Jeremiah can't go, could you play our valid receiver? You know, like. Yeah, you want to throw a bubble screen to Orville Reese and ask a little, little 5 10, 195 pound corner to tackle Arvell Reese. Hey, Ryan, we got a deep. We got a plan for you. Okay. Thanks to you guys for being here. Sorry we keep leaning forward. We wanted both of us to be here tonight because you never know what's going to happen. And I'm glad that we were both here tonight.

[B]

Yeah. As am I. The game itself, like, you know, a little uneventful, but important things happening that we need to be on top of. So, yeah. Glad we were both here.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's just. It's just funny, like, so many things that are happening in such a good way for this team, but this is like, this is a real thing for us to continue to gather information on and, you know, try to bring that to you guys whenever we get it. So we'll be doing that here on YouTube. We'll be doing that on podcast feeds. We'll be doing that especially on our substack page philandoug osu.substack.com we'll have a Sunday morning show. Well it might not be in the morning. We'll have a show on Sunday, the Sunday Sound off where we take questions and comments from our Substack subscribers that goes out only to our subscribers. If you guys want to go, go on and join the substack over there and see what's going on. So thanks to you guys as always for being here. Do I still think George is a fraud? They're playing better. Gunner Stockton kind of is kind of smaller.

[B]

He's a gamer.

[A]

Yeah, like he's, he's, he's, they've been put, they've put themselves in a lot of holes this year that he has dug that out of. And like I didn't know if they, they didn't get themselves in a similar hole against Texas tonight which is a credit to them. And I think you could feel the energy there. Kirby onside kicking after like, you know.

[B]

But that's like Kirby's, Kirby's got Stark's number two. I think there's, there's a built in advantage there mentally, I think. Yeah.

[A]

So but I mean there's a, there's a, there's a part of me that is just going to be absolutely disgusted if we get five or six SEC teams in the playoff. But also the way Ohio State is playing, the way Indiana has played much of the year, I thought Oregon played great on Friday night. The way Oregon's playing at its best. I think Notre Dame is, is playing as almost as well as anybody in the country outside of Ohio State. I'd like to see the SEC try to hang with any of those four.

[B]

Teams in the playoff.

[A]

And I, and I certainly take my chances with those northern teams teams against anybody in the sec. All right. Like and subscribe. Thanks to you guys for hanging with us. We'll be back on Substack on Sunday. All kinds of stuff here during the week around the shoe. On Monday we have two more great guests from the Ohio State beat that will join us. But for now thanks you guys for being here. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice and that was the Bill and Doug show.

[C]

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[A]

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