← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
College Football Playoff brackets: Indiana dominance, SEC fears, 9-3 chaos, Big 12 uncertainty
00:46:49
College Football Playoff brackets are the focus of this Tuesday night edition of The Bill and Doug Show as they reveal changes in their 12-team brackets after losses by Utah and Illinois last weekend.
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- [00:02]
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- [01:01]
Doug Lame Maurice
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. It's Tuesday. That means it's time for us to redo our playoff brackets. And Bill, at least for me, two of the off season teams that I was like kind of banging the drum for, their drums broke. Is that a football term? Someone broke their drums. Illinois and Utah. Losing has me on edge a little bit. And then also I was looking at some things and I'm already starting to dread the 9 and 3 end of year log jam that is gonna wind up with seven SEC teams making the playoff field. And I want to throw myself out of my second floor window here thinking about the playoff. I shouldn't be this angsty in September thinking about the playoffs, should I?
- [01:48]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think so. At the very least it seems like, you know, Illinois is probably being replaced by another Big Ten team, at least for the moment, the team that beat them. So that's, that's okay. The Utah thing was, was a little bit shocking. And I don't think you're wrong about there being a log jam of three loss SEC teams. But we don't have to worry about that now. Let's not worry about it.
- [02:11]
Doug Lame Maurice
We don't. You're just, you're. Are you just trying to make me feel better?
- [02:15]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Life's too short. No, no. There will come a time when we have to worry about it very much so. But I don't know that you should do it on September 23rd.
- [02:25]
Doug Lame Maurice
Okay, I'll just. So there's this thing that the athletic does, I don't really understand it, but they, they run through and make a bracket based on the algorithm they've created of who the most likely playoff teams are at the moment. And I just looked at their bracket and it was six SEC teams, three Big Ten teams, one ACC team, one at one Big 12 team, and a Group of Five team and I, I went through and it's like, you know, they have, I'm sure, a lot of fancy numbers, but then they just have to come up with a basic, like, well, what, what does our algorithm project that your final regular season record is going to be? Right. And they don't make it. You see a lot of the, the things are like, well, we think your regular season record is going to be 10.7 and to 1.3. And it's like, well, that's not what your record could be. So they just do round numbers. So I just went through. They predicted 14 teams from power conferences to wind up at nine and three, five from the SEC, four from the Big Ten, three from the ACC and two from the Big 12. Okay, 14 teams. And then just they're trying their, their metrics, their algorithm and they try to work in like how they think the committee is going to think about those teams. They say they lean on strength of record and strength of resume. So we're talking about 14 teams at nine and three and they have four of them based on their percent chance to make the playoff that they have right now. Four of those make the 12 team field. And at the moment in their thing and they're all SEC teams.
- [04:10]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [04:11]
Doug Lame Maurice
They have Ole Miss with a 64 chance to get in at 9 and 3, LSU with a 62% chance, Texas a M with a 41 chance and then Oklahoma with a 32 chance. And for whatever reason they give Oklahoma the edge over Iowa State and Florida State who are also at 32%. But it's that kind of thing, Bill, when I start to think about that, that makes my, my body has a reaction to it and I, and it makes me want to call Tony Petiti and tell him to like, let's get this. Four guaranteed for the Big Ten, for, guaranteed for the SEC, two each for the Big 12 of the ACC. Like that kind of discussion. Great, let's do that. Because I just don't want to live in the algorithm world where the algorithm thinks like, well, you know, I guess the committee is going to put in seven SEC teams. I'm sorry.
- [04:59]
Bill Landis
No, I think it's, it's worth being on alert for because the thing that is not working in the Big Ten's favor is the Penn State, Oregon, Indiana round robin. Right. And, and if someone comes out of that with two losses, they're probably not going to win an argument against a three loss SEC team. Right. Like that's what makes you nervous.
- [05:21]
Doug Lame Maurice
So that argument. So let's, let's have so, so this is the other thing that is happening, that Oregon, Penn State and Ohio State in the Big Ten are viewed by almost everyone as playoff locks right now. And I think the status of locks in the SEC is not at the point of thinking there's three guaranteed teams in, right? And so again, it is somehow that uncertainty, the fact that the top of the SEC at the moment is not looking as good as the top of the Big Ten, fueled by the fact, for instance, that Ohio State beat Texas head to head. Right? And we're going to have, this could be a very interesting weekend to try to judge this because Georgia, Alabama and Oregon, Penn State are going to be going on simultaneously. I think a lot of college football fans are going to split that screen and watch those games at the same time and judge not just the, not just the winners against each other, but like the winner against like the quality of the game against each other. Bill?
- [06:18]
Bill Landis
Yeah, but doesn't that make you nervous? Doesn't it? Because it's going to be, I can absolutely see a scenario where like the Georgia, Alabama game looks like it looked last year. It's like 42, 41 with a bunch of nonsense happening. And Penn State, Oregon is perhaps better played, but lower scoring because it's lower scoring, it's the worst game.
- [06:38]
Doug Lame Maurice
And just like everything with the sec, when they do it, that becomes the norm when Alabama and LSU are playing 13, nine games or whatever. And like that's the standard. It's like everyone's like, well, you don't understand defense. Like you don't know. And now, so the SEC might chuck it around and we're gonna have Bryce Bettcher and deny Dennis Sutton and like guys making plays defensively for Oregon and Penn State. But, but now the standard's gonna be, oh, Ty Simpson and Gunner, Stockton letting it rip. And it's gonna be like, is it maybe that the defenses are bad? It's, it's this like it's a great point, Bill, that somehow I think the SEC manages to flip who they are. They used to be a top heavy conference. Now they're a team where the top is not as good as the Big Ten. But when it was top heavy, that was the way that was. That was, that was better. And now that it's a big mishmash, that's better. And back when they played defense, that was better and now that they chuck it around, that's better. And somehow if the SEC does it, that's the standard and I'm done. Just do the show by yourself. I can't do it. It's not, it's September 23rd.
- [07:48]
Bill Landis
But that was sort of how things played out last year. Right. But then in the end, the SEC wasn't rewarded. Like, so I guess is there, is there, is there going to be so much discussion, plus the fever pitch we had this off season that the committee will view those things differently, certainly on the table. But I'm at least calmed a little bit by the fact that like, we, we went through this in 2024 and didn't end up with a playoff that had seven SEC teams in it.
- [08:13]
Doug Lame Maurice
So. But let's, let's unwind your scenario because the interesting thing about these top four Big Ten teams, as you pointed out, Ohio State and Penn State play each other. Ohio State does not play Oregon. Ohio State does not play Indiana. But starting this weekend begins the round robin of these other teams playing each other. Oregon, Penn State this weekend. Then as I pointed out on the Tuesday show, then Oregon and Indiana are both off next weekend and then they other in Eugene. So we're getting Signetti versus landing very quickly. And then Indiana and Penn State play each other later in the year based on just preseason perception and overall talent level and probably where some people are right now, if Indiana loses both those games and Indiana's on the road at Penn State and at Oregon, if Indiana goes 102 with those two losses. The only equivalent game they played last year was at Ohio State when they lost. They're playing two games like that this year. But last year they did not have a win as good as this dominating win over Illinois when Illinois was a top 10 team going in. We'll see what Illinois looks like at the end of the year. But you're saying already you would be worried about a 10 and 2 Indiana team in that scenario?
- [09:29]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [09:30]
Doug Lame Maurice
Losing out to a 9 and 3 sec team, I would be part of.
- [09:35]
Bill Landis
That is fear of like Indiana or next to me in Indiana, Illinois maybe being more like a 7 and 5, 8 and 4 kind of team. Especially like with the injury to Xavier Scott, who might be out for the year, like he's their best defensive player. We saw what a shorthanded Illinois secondary looks like in that game against Indiana. Suddenly like Illinois is out of the playoff race. I would say unless it doesn't lose again, which feels unlikely. But it's super important to like the perception of the Big Ten. Like it cannot fall off a cliff if it doesn't. If it finishes like 9 and 3 or 10 and 2, even like loses to Ohio State, but maybe wins the rest of its games then that Indiana win would hold some weight. I think then I would be less fearful of that. But I just don't know that I'm confident in Illinois putting together that kind of season. Like we, we talked I think on the pick show or maybe it was the playoff show like we mentioned anyway, that Illinois had like USC sandwiched in between Indiana and Ohio State and kind of like dismissed the USC game a little bit. Super important game for, for the perception of the Big Ten. It's either like USC looks like it's playing really well and ascending and maybe that's something that can help help people see the big tenant a little bit of rich for light or for Indiana's purposes keeps that, you know what was a top 10 winner won't be anymore. Still a pretty valuable one in Indiana's back pocket.
- [10:59]
Doug Lame Maurice
So Indiana made the playoff last year. They're undefeated. They just won a top 25 matchup. 63 10. Why. Why are we talking about them this way instead of like nobody's. I don't know that anybody thinks Georgia's not going to make the playoff at 10 and 2 even if Georgia loses to Alabama and Texas. Right. Like has Indiana done enough through a season and a half to just be viewed even in a different way than they were last year? That last year they were an upstart. Last year a lot of people thought they were a product of their schedule and at least to some degree they were. Are they out of that realm now? Iowa, as we record this on Tuesday, Kirk Ference was talking. They're getting ready to go to Iowa this week.
- [11:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [11:51]
Doug Lame Maurice
Heck of a schedule for Indiana.
- [11:52]
Bill Landis
By the way.
- [11:54]
Doug Lame Maurice
Kirk Ferent said that Indiana. It's hard to find weaknesses on Indiana's team and in that way it's a lot like playing Ohio State that they don't have any weaknesses. That's what an opposing coach is doing. He's comparing Indiana to Ohio State. Why shouldn't we. Why should we fear the 10 and 2 Indiana being left out as opposed to man, 10 and 2 Indiana. They're awesome. And they lost to two playoff teams.
- [12:22]
Bill Landis
I just think it takes a lot to flip the perception of the entire sport. I do think the perception of the Big Ten has been flipped. Like, like Indiana is a respected program in the Big Ten now. Like one to not be taken lightly. Clearly. Because even the Ohio State game last year, like Ohio State ended up ended up winning comfortably. It was close at halftime, wasn't it? Wasn't it like a one scorer game at halftime? It wasn't like they BL their doors off from the jump and they beat Michigan last year. Indiana did. So I don't think there's any. Anything holding Indiana back inside of its own conference, but it's going to take a lot more, including like, obviously you have to win at Iowa and Iowa City. Connect Stadium is a place that has swallowed up good teams and spit them out and derailed their seasons. Right? So go win that game and you earn another bit of respect. Right? Go. Even if you don't win at Oregon or at Penn State, don't get blown out. Right? Go. Go. Look like you're, you're their equal in those games and someone has to win. Right? Like that's, that's where Indiana still has ground to make up what they're. What they've done is incredible. I. I don't know that it's entirely off base to be still like slightly circumspective of what they're doing, but it was. And I guess the other part of it too is like by a certain point in that game against Illinois, they were playing against like Illinois's second string secondary almost entirely. Right.
- [13:45]
Doug Lame Maurice
Does it.
- [13:46]
Bill Landis
If Illinois secondary was intact, I still think Indiana wins that game. They just don't want to buy as much. But yeah, that's like kind of a cop out, I think, for people too who still don't want to quite give Indiana the credit that I think it's due.
- [13:58]
Doug Lame Maurice
Brett Bielen was saying by the end of the game they were down six of their top seven DBs, but Kurt Signetti was saying, put on the film. We knew we were gonna get after Illinois with our pass rush because we saw Duke do it. And, and here's where I questioned what in God's name you and I are doing here? What are we doing? And I'm dragging you down with me because in the end, you and I watched Duke, Illinois and we were like, man, Duke looks better than Illinois. I think Duke's like, Illinois couldn't block Duke at all. But Duke made some goofy turnovers and Luke Altmire made some throws in the second half and Brett Bielum was hanging on by his fingernails doing last second substitutions. And Illinois won that game on the road. And then Duke, by the way, went and lost to two lane. So it's like, oh, overcoming Duke. How impressed are we with that? And yet I looked at that this whole off season with Illinois as I was breaking the drum, picking Illinois to go in 11 and 1. It I was looking at things about Illinois. And so the One thing is I thought their secondary was good, but then their entire secondary got hurt. Xavier Scott couldn't play because it was hurt. Miles Scott, their second best secondary guy, got ejected from that game, from targeting, for targeting, and then everybody else got hurt. So you couldn't see that coming. The offensive line you and I talked a thousand times about, they had everybody back, but also they've got to be better. So I was saying, okay, Aaron Henry, this defensive coordinator, they've got to jump up to being a top 25 defense. And this offensive line that returns everybody, they can't just return them. They've got to be better. And then neither of those things happened, and I wound up waiting for Illinois to become something they didn't become. Meanwhile, Indiana is that. And it was just a question of, can Indiana stay that when they got better at quarterback, when they have their receivers back, when they maybe got better at running back, when they have all their most important defensive players back. Indiana already was that. And I picked Illinois to win that game. Based on. I think Illinois can become something they're not. When Indiana is the same thing they've been for a year and a half. What is wrong with me?
- [16:09]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean, the offensive line thing for Illinois was staring us right in the face, and we. And we just. We willingly ignored it to. To our demise. Yeah. And the other part for me, too, was because I think I said when we made the pick, like, I. I thought both defensive fronts were, like, gonna get after it in that game and it would be kind of close and Illinois would kind of eke it out because Illinois sort of did that last year. I underestimated Indiana's offensive line like that. Indiana's offensive line was probably the thing about that team last year that was, like, most deficient compared to the other teams that were in the playoff. And I just sort of figured it would be the same this year. And I think Illinois got a pretty good defensive front. They did a nice job of handling them. So. And like the game, State got a little wacky too, so maybe that helped. But if that. If everything else about Indiana is, like, the same or enhanced, and then you add what looks like it to be, like, significantly improved offensive line play on top of that, then I think the conversation about, or the question as to whether Indiana might be better this year than it was last year was sort of answered definitively last week. It's just a matter of, like, what they do with that now because the schedule's more difficult.
- [17:29]
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- [18:26]
Doug Lame Maurice
You and I before the season thought there were three Big Ten teams that should make the playoff and eight that could make the playoff. Those playoff odds for the three that should from DraftKings Ohio State is minus 8, 800 to make the playoff right now like it is could not be more of a odds on favorite to make the playoff. Oregon's -425 in Penn State's -300. So odds on favorites for those three teams to make the playoff. I don't know that we're surprised by any of that.
- [18:53]
Bill Landis
Is there anybody else that's close that like that as close to Ohio State sides?
- [18:58]
Doug Lame Maurice
I don't know that there's anybody better than in the four hundreds. Okay. So I think, I think maybe Georgia was sort of in that range but actually I, I think Oregon might be second. So Georgia's 260.
- [19:12]
Bill Landis
Minus 260.
- [19:13]
Doug Lame Maurice
260. Okay. So I mean that's just like this is, this is where we are with how people, how people are viewing this right now. Right. So okay, the next tier has kind of been split in half at least in the betting perception but I think correctly in the perception and a lot it based on who's already lost and what's happening on the field to make the playoff. The next four Big Ten teams to make the playoff. Indiana is plus 170, USC plus 225. Michigan which has a loss to Oklahoma plus 370 coming off that win at Nebraska and Washington at plus 500. And Washington is going to have these opportunities with teams coming to their place. Ohio State going to their place this weekend. Illinois is going to go to their place, Oregon's going to go to their place. So Washington's going to have opportunity and then the next group, it's kind of a fall off. Nebraska is plus 1500 so 15 to 1 to make the playoff after losing at home to Michigan. Iowa 21, Illinois 221 and Minnesota 55. 1, so those were our teams. When you look at that second tier, as it stands now, Indiana, USC, Michigan, Washington, how confident do you feel about the idea of somebody from that tier emerging to give the Big Ten a very strong fourth playoff contender? Or is the Big Ten going to eat itself?
- [20:41]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think, I don't think the Big Ten is going to eat itself. I think, I think there's enough discrepancy between the top and the bottom for, for those teams not to, like, suffer a, a loss you didn't see coming. So I, I, I remain confident that the Big Ten will get a fourth team. In which team? I'm, I'm not entirely sure. Like, the easy answer at the moment is is Indiana. But it's hard to feel great about that with those two, two big road trips looming. USC is playing really well, especially offensively. We'll, we'll get a better idea, I think, now with them going on the road. I'm playing Illinois this week. Washington's schedule is interesting, right? Like, Washington, a team that won at home and didn't win on the road last year, has a favorable road schedule this year with, like, if asked to play at Michigan, that's tough. But like at Maryland, at Wisconsin, at ucla, Washington should win all those games. Will it? I don't know. But like, if Washington gets one of its home games against Ohio State and Oregon and Maybe, maybe it's 10, two because it drops that road game at Michigan, like, I don't know. That's a pretty compelling resume, I think, for a Big Ten playoff team. So I think they're still very much in the thick of it, so I feel okay about it still. I, I, you know, the way we open the show with expressing concern about that, that jumble of SEC teams is, is not like, paranoia. I think that's real. But I, I still feel okay about where the Big Ten is.
- [22:07]
Doug Lame Maurice
How interested you are you in Michigan as a playoff contender right now because five of their games that remain for 3 and 1 Michigan, Michigan's off this weekend are Wisconsin at Michigan State, home Purdue, home Purdue at Northwestern at Wrigley Field, and at Maryland. Now, Maryland's looked pretty frisky, so, like, I don't want to take that for granted. That's a road trip. But those are five games that Michigan should win. And then they are at USC on October 11, home versus Washington on October 18, and obviously home versus Ohio State to end the year. Yeah, you can look at that and find a 10 and 2 Michigan. And as, as you're not a 10 and 2 Indiana with a win over Illinois, but road losses to Penn State and Oregon. You're not exactly sure about. Let's say a 10 and two Michigan. Say. Say it's a loss to Ohio State, but they beat Washington and usc. Maybe it's a loss at usc, but they beat Ohio State for the fifth straight time. They have the loss at Oklahoma. A lot of people think Oklahoma is going to be a playoff team. Do you think a 10 and 2 Michigan in that scenario is a strong playoff contender?
- [23:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think it would. I mean, you would need USC to remain strong. I think if they were to beat Washington, the Washington will be a pretty good win by the end of the year. Even, like, Maryland could be like, a team. Maybe they had, like, Maryland is a team. Like, you know, they're not a playoff contender, but that's a team I thought might win like, three games, and now maybe it might win more like eight games. Right. So that could be actually a decently strong win for a Big Ten team, too. Just as your people are, like, power rating things and trying to figure out who should get in. So, yeah, I think. I think 10 and 2 Michigan would be a strong candidate. And, you know, you can't. You're dealing with human beings and their institutional knowledge of college football. Michigan will probably get more of a benefit of a doubt than Indiana would in that scenario just because of its helmet, even if their resumes were similar. So, yeah, I think Michigan would be in a decent spot there.
- [23:59]
Doug Lame Maurice
That makes sense. All right, you want to do. You want to do our latest playoff brackets, which we do here every every Tuesday evening?
- [24:06]
Bill Landis
Mr. Landis, we. I would love to. Would you like to first tell the fine folks about Roback?
- [24:15]
Doug Lame Maurice
I like it. I'm gonna put a sign on my closet door here that says do the Roback read. But I didn't do it yet. I'm gonna put a sign up that says do the rollback read. I'm gonna put on a sign up that says, make sure that your chords are connected. Because I'm a professional podcaster, and professional podcasters and fans alike need to know about Roback. Listen, so this is the thing, right? They have this game day collection. Landis. Which is the thing that I like most about Roback is that it's apparel that allows you to express your fandom, but it's just a little different style than kind of what you normally see out there, right? And sometimes you want to wear, like, a big branded sweatshirt with your team's logo all over it. But Maybe there are times when you want to wear a quarter zip or a polo or a hoodie that's just a little more subtle, a little more classic, a little more stylish. And Roback is the king of that. So this is a great opportunity. I don't even know, is it officially fall? Did fall start?
- [25:18]
Bill Landis
Yeah, the equinox was on Monday. Yeah.
- [25:21]
Doug Lame Maurice
Look at you knowing when the equinox is. It's an equinox special here. No, it's not. But it's a good time. Like, the equinox is a good time to think. I need to think. Fall close. So again, like quarter zips, hoodies, this fleeces right. Roback has you covered with all this stuff. Again, this game day collection is just fun to look. So go to roback.com that's R H O-B-A C K.com and just allow yourself to look. And it's a wonderful. Like, window shopping is kind of a lost art because people order everything online. This is a great window shopping website because the things are just. It's a. It's a very cool vibe with a lot of this college football gear. And we're going to give you a code. Okay, this will get you 20 off your first order@roback.com. put in bad 20, bad 20, you'll get 20. This is a nice savings. You'll get 20 off your first order. I'm telling you. Just go check it out and see what you think. The fall collection, the game day collection, Again, that's at R H O-B-A C-K.com B A D20 is the code to get 20 off. Maybe someday we'll have. We'll have bad clothing at Roback. Just like a nice quarter zip and like a nice, like a stripe. Right? And just as bad right across it. Let's do your playoff picks first because I am terrible about knowing about college football this year, so I would rather have you go first and then I can steal what you think.
- [26:47]
Bill Landis
I don't think I'm much better, but I'll give you my first. My top four is unchanged from last week.
- [26:52]
Doug Lame Maurice
So, okay.
- [26:53]
Bill Landis
I still have Ohio State first as the Big Ten champ, Miami second as the ACC champ, Georgia third as the SEC champ. By the way, can I give a shout out to Bud Elliott, who put out his playoff rankings this week and did not have an SEC team, Didn't have the SEC champ in the top four. Respect.
- [27:09]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh, for real?
- [27:10]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Yeah.
- [27:11]
Doug Lame Maurice
So. So he then would have had two Big Ten teams, Miami as the ACC champ. And who was his fourth team?
- [27:18]
Bill Landis
I think Texas Tech.
- [27:20]
Doug Lame Maurice
Look at that. Leaning in. Okay.
- [27:21]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so shout out to Bud. Sorry. Ohio State 1, Miami 2, Georgia 3. Oregon is still 4. For me, here's where I started to change things up a little bit. I have Texas Tech fifth as the Big 12.
- [27:34]
Doug Lame Maurice
Okay, you're buying in, huh?
- [27:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah, bought in. That was. I was pretty impressed by what happened in that game. Penn State, I have sixth. I moved Oklahoma up to seventh after they beat Auburn this week. I have Texas A M 8th. I did some shuffling of the SEC teams. Okay. I have Florida State 9, Texas 10. Which by the way would create a Texas at Oklahoma first round game.
- [27:56]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh my gosh. Okay.
- [27:59]
Bill Landis
I have Indiana 11. And I am back to South Florida in the 12 spot as the G5 representative after Tulane got housed by Ole Miss this week.
- [28:13]
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- [29:10]
Doug Lame Maurice
Yeah, it's been so I, I will say that American race. I just, I'm not even. I think we can just kick back and enjoy it.
- [29:18]
Bill Landis
It's gonna be really good. Yeah.
- [29:20]
Doug Lame Maurice
With the realization that the winner of the American Athletic Conference is going to be the G5 rep in the playoff and I think will be a worthy one. And so right now the odds of that Tulane is plus 290 to win the American. Memphis is plus 400. North Texas plus 450. Navy plus 450 in South Florida plus 475. I just don't think anyone needs to like bang their head against the wall about this. Just sit back and watch some ball and have a reason. This is like the playoff at its best, Bill. That I'll admit. I have not. I am not a small, I'm not a group of five guy. I lean into the blue bloods. I lead in, lean into the big brands. So I would not normally just sit around and be like, you know what? I'm Going to flip on South Florida Memphis and just sit back, sit back and enjoy this thing. But if I know that that is a crucial game and that the winner will greatly enhance its chances of making the playoff, I'm much more interested in that. So let's just enjoy the American that way.
- [30:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think we should. And just, like, taking a peek ahead here, looks like the first kind of banger in the American is going to be Friday, October 10th, South Florida at North Texas.
- [30:30]
Doug Lame Maurice
Okay. And, like, pick a team, maybe, right? Like, people always say this, like, oh, it's the English Premier League. Just pick a team. And I like. I like Westminster Chicken Coop. Oh, Westminster Chicken Coop. I've adopted them and I bought a scarf and I wake up at 4am and I enjoy them and they're zero, zero, tie. Just do that with the American. If you can do it with European football, you can do it with the American. Pick your squad. You're like, North Texas. Now go root for North Texas like you would for Westminster Chicken Coop. Don't people do this all over the place? They pick their soccer team.
- [31:09]
Bill Landis
They do. Actually, I was. I was gifted a very early birthday present over the weekend, which was an Aston Villa jersey from my uncle.
- [31:18]
Doug Lame Maurice
Really?
- [31:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah. But he's. To be fair, he's British, he's from Birmingham, and he is a lifelong Aston Villa fan. So, like, he has a reason to like them and he's just passing it on to us. Yeah.
- [31:29]
Doug Lame Maurice
But, you know, are they rivals with Westminster Chicken Cooper?
- [31:32]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think so. No, I think they're. I think Westminster Chicken Coop is in a different division now.
- [31:37]
Doug Lame Maurice
Now, listen, I'm not. I'm not disparaging that idea. I just know that.
- [31:42]
Bill Landis
Oh, you're not Westminster Chicken Coop. You're not disparaging it.
- [31:47]
Doug Lame Maurice
I'm just saying I know people do it. People are like, I don't know anything about this thing. I actually think that makes a lot of sense. I don't know anything about it. I'm going to just randomly adopt a team so then I can get into it. I don't know anything about F1, but now I like Viva Barcelona for the F1 team. And that's my team now. That's great. I'm just saying, if you can do it with them, do it the American. That's all. I think I called him Westminster Chicken Coop because one of my friends went to Europe in high school and I said, like, oh, get me like a soccer thing or whatever. And he brought me back a hat and it was something FC and There was a picture of a chicken and I thought the FC stood for Fighting Cocks and it was football club. So I think every mascot in English soccer is a chicken. So that's why I think it's like.
- [32:42]
Bill Landis
A few of them are.
- [32:43]
Doug Lame Maurice
To be fair, I mean, you know what, there's not a ton of, I guess, I mean, I guess South Carolina. I don't know how many chicken mascots there are in Carolina, but you have to like, you have to differentiate Westminster Chicken Coop from South Watford Chicken Coop. That's why you have to. You just can't call them chicken coop. So. All right, pick your American team. Are you in? Like I am not. And, and this is also my tendency to think a thing. I don't, I don't let myself, I didn't let myself vote this way. I think because I could vote. You have to go by results. But if you're predicting things, if I think think something in the off season, it is very hard to get me off of it. Even as things unfold during a college football regular season. I did not believe in Texas Tech piecing together this roster. I think it's only nine of their starters though who are from the portal. It's not like it's 17. I'm not going to believe in Texas Tech's ability to get through a 12 game season with a bunch of guys who are kind of new to each other until I see it. So I'm not gonna get on that bandwagon. I will be a late adopter on Texas Tech even though my daughter's 8th grade English teacher's son is one of the Texas Tech guys who went from the Mac to left guard as the starting off guard at Texas Tech. Good luck to Walgetos. You're in now.
- [34:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean to go. So like I'm. We were big on Utah, right. And like I'm kind of still big on Utah. To be honest, I'm not entirely out on them. I think the book is out right. Like make Devin Dampier a passer and you got a chance. But to go to Rice Eccles and out physical Utah, yes. Is among the more impressive things I think you can do in college football. So yeah, I'm, I'm pretty in on what I saw there. And then to like to do it when they're starting quarterback goes out and the backup comes in and plays well, that, that to me looks like a pretty good football team. But to your point, the Big 12, I think everyone's sort of condensed. So we'll see Texas Tech Plays Kansas in a couple weeks. Arizona State. After that, BYU at the end of the year. So there'll be. There'll be some other games that won't be gimmes.
- [34:52]
Doug Lame Maurice
I don't know what to think of the Big 12 either. Big 12 odds to win the conference at the moment. Texas Tech +240. Arizona State, with the loss to Mississippi state now still second at plus 550. TCU plus 600. Iowa State plus 650. Utah 10 to 1 as the fifth choice right now. Do you want to guess who I have as my Big 12 champ at the moment? Even though I would wish I could pass, but I didn't. I just don't know what to do. Who do you think I picked?
- [35:22]
Bill Landis
Let me think, let me think, let me think. Tcu.
- [35:25]
Doug Lame Maurice
I did pick tcu. And there's a big one Friday. TCU at Arizona State on Friday night is something that should get your attention. They are second and third in the Big 12 odds right now. Josh Hoover's thrown for a thousand yards in three games. He threw for 379 and five touchdowns. And their win over SMU. I like Sonny Dykes. They've done it before. Like they have a real quarterback. Although there's a lot of good quarterbacks in the Big 12, so that's where I am. But I am just. I am not enthusiastic about anything right now. I remain uncertain about Iowa State, even though you have to respect what Matt Campbell does so much. And I really like Rocco Beck. I'm still not sure a little bit about some of their skill guys. I still have some questions up front about them, but maybe that's wrong, too. Did you think about making Iowa state your Big 12 team?
- [36:14]
Bill Landis
No. They're sort of. They've been like, out of sight, out of mind for me. Like, probably unfairly so, but no, I didn't. And I also just thought of something that would be hilarious because it's not impossible that Texas misses the playoff. What if Texas misses the playoff while Texas Tech, Texas A M and Texas Christian.
- [36:29]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh, my God, they will ride Sark out on a freaking rail, dude. I mean, they won't ride Sarc out on a road. Oklahoma and Oklahoma, if that happens, Arch Manning is the quarterback at Rutgers next year, right?
- [36:51]
Bill Landis
I don't know if it's. Kelly McManus still have eligibility because he's playing really well right now. He's playing.
- [36:56]
Doug Lame Maurice
Is that where you are? There's. There's no room in the Big Ten for Arch Manning. Sorry.
- [37:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah, sorry.
- [37:04]
Doug Lame Maurice
We actually. That's not going to be our big Wednesday show. On our sub Stack Premium show is talking about sort of like the growth of quarterback play in the Big Ten. Maybe that'd be a good headline for that show. Landis, would Arch Manning start in the Big Ten?
- [37:18]
Bill Landis
How many, how many Big Ten teams would pass on Archbannon?
- [37:25]
Doug Lame Maurice
Kirk Ference is like, we got Mark Radowski. We're good, man. What are you talking. We're good. Oh, man. Okay, here's my playoff pick. I also am very similar and there's a, like Ohio State number one. We both have that feel very good about. It's. I think everybody's in on Miami at this point. Right. Is this unanimous both sides of the ball up front? And I invest in quarterback play. Yeah.
- [37:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And I think if you were. If this was like a poll driven by resume, I don't have a problem with voting Miami number one.
- [37:59]
Doug Lame Maurice
I will say I, I did find it odd, and this is, and I mentioned this somewhere else, that Miami sixth in the coaches poll and second in the AP poll. That's the biggest gap in polls that I can remember ever. Yeah, I mean, usually they're one or two spots away, but I did find it odd that it was. Is it. It's the win over Florida that people were like, okay, that's it. I gotta vote Miami number one now.
- [38:22]
Bill Landis
It was the worst they looked. Yeah. Like it was still. They won comfortably in the end, but it was definitely the word, the worst they played.
- [38:30]
Doug Lame Maurice
I thought that was an, an odd inflection point because we're all in agreement now that all that preseason Florida hype that some people lord on is not worth it. That's part of it. Because the DJ Lagway hasn't been healthy. But like, I, I did think that was because you and I got to Miami pretty quickly. We were saying two weeks ago we thought the three best teams in the country, or at least most impressive for Ohio State, Oregon and Miami.
- [38:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [38:51]
Doug Lame Maurice
So, yeah, we're not gonna be blind to that. I do still have Texas 3 as the SEC champ. They looked better against Sam Houston State. Arch is like sticking it to FCS guys and, and you know, whatever. Like, great. I, I don't know. They're off this week. Steve Sarkeesian thinks they're going to get healthy and maybe, maybe go on a run here. So I'll, I'll, I'll hang around on Texas for now and Oregon 4. So my top four didn't change. My top six didn't change. Ohio State, Miami, Texas, Oregon, the top four Penn State 5, Georgia 6 TCU 7 replacing Utah. Texas A M still 8. Indiana 9 replacing Illinois and then I Georgia Tech 10, Missouri 11, South Florida 12. So my only changes this week where I just the two teams that lost Utah and Illinois replaced them. TCU instead of Utah, Indiana instead of Illinois.
- [39:48]
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- [40:46]
Bill Landis
You had Missouri in last week.
- [40:47]
Doug Lame Maurice
I did, but like and, and again I thought, I also thought that there was a little bit of a people who were liking Oklahoma after this game against Oklahoma were like, yes, okay, Oklahoma. But then simultaneously people were saying that was like the worst officiated game they've seen in their life and they gave Oklahoma a free cheating touchdown that they shouldn't have gotten.
- [41:10]
Bill Landis
Yeah, so.
- [41:11]
Doug Lame Maurice
Yeah, like so what now? I know Oklahoma sacked Jack Snarl a million times, but they still maybe shouldn't have won. But that's the confirmation we needed on Oklahoma that I'm not buying.
- [41:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah, well, I think for at least for me anyway, like as someone who moved Oklahoma up like I, I would that defense, it looks legitimate to me. Like I think there are a couple of defenses that I feel like have solidified themselves like at the top. Top. Oklahoma is one of them. I think Texas is one of them. I think Ohio State's one of them. Texas Tech might be one of them. Right. With what they, what they did this week. So I don't know that there's anybody who's like kind of kicking tail on both sides of the ball. The closest teams are probably the three you mentioned earlier, Ohio State, Miami in Oregon. But yeah, Texas or Oklahoma's offense still leaves a little bit to be desired.
- [42:01]
Doug Lame Maurice
Yeah, Miami, Florida State. By the way, Miami's off this week. Florida State plays Virginia and then they meet next weekend. So that is gonna be gigantic.
- [42:11]
Bill Landis
Florida, Florida State, Virginia is Friday night. That's a like a touchdown spread. It's like six and a half.
- [42:16]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh really? Add that to like the Ohio State.
- [42:18]
Bill Landis
Washington one that like they're just Virginia's three and one.
- [42:22]
Doug Lame Maurice
Okay, interesting. So this is going to be quite a weekend. We will make our picks on Friday. It's moving weekend, right? Like Oregon, Penn State is going to tell us.
- [42:35]
Bill Landis
I think we've said that three weeks in a row, but yeah, it feels like it. Yeah. I wrote down the games.
- [42:45]
Doug Lame Maurice
I've lost my way. What am I doing, Bill? I'm just a cliche machine. I forget to read the ads. I'm not locked in. I'm not locked in. Can you feel that in your life when you're not locked in? Sometimes, yes.
- [42:58]
Bill Landis
But I think a little bit of not locked in is good because you. Then you like invite a little bit of chaos and silliness, which is great. But there are. So yeah, again, it is another moving weekend. I think Florida State, Virginia is interesting, obviously. Ohio State going to Washington, Penn State playing Oregon, Auburn, A M, Indiana at Iowa, Alabama, Georgia, lsu, Ole Miss. Interesting.
- [43:17]
Doug Lame Maurice
Okay. And like this. So it is fascinating. It is just absolutely fascinating that the most interesting team in college football is the Indiana Hoosiers. For the second straight year, they are the pivot point of college football discussion because they are that fourth team in the Big Ten. So everything they do is not only about them. It is a referendum on every single thing around them. It is a referendum on the Big Ten. It is a referendum on the Big Ten SEC rivalry. It is a referendum on strength of schedule metrics. It is a referendum on how do we te treat teams off the radar versus established blue bloods. Everything Indiana does matters to everybody. And at the moment they are getting ready to go to Iowa and Kirk stinking Ference wedged in between games against Illinois and Oregon that were both like top 10 opponents. Like, this is. This is a. It's a fascinating place that we are. That people need to and get to care about the Hoosiers this much. What are you doing?
- [44:31]
Bill Landis
Sorry. John Matier is getting surgery. He's going to be out for a little bit.
- [44:36]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh, for real? Is it? Michael Hawkins Jr. Is the Oklahoma backup, The guy who played last year when they bench Jackson Arnold.
- [44:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So, yeah. Material will undergo surgery Wednesday to address the right hand injury. He's sustaining the win over Auburn. He. The expectation is that he will return to action sometime this season. But yeah, Michael Hawkins will start their next game, which is on October 4th against Kent State, but the week after that's Red river. So.
- [45:01]
Doug Lame Maurice
Oh, man, Arch better not get outplayed by Michael Hawkins Jr. That'll be. That'll be on it. Oh, that is a new. That is a new. All right, thanks for breaking that news. All right, so you're so. So part of it was like we. I did we. You were at a weekend wedding. I was at a weekend visit to my daughter. It's just like a long drive back sometimes. Like it just takes me a little while after you travel and then like, yeah, you get back late and then you're kind of behind and you're not 100% in. I would like to get locked in. But your advice is don't. Don't bother.
- [45:38]
Bill Landis
No. Yeah, like locked in enough that you're not saying stupid things, but you don't have to. You don't have to be an expert on this, on this sport to talk about it. No, not at all.
- [45:47]
Doug Lame Maurice
I don't know. Locked in enough to not stay stupid, not say stupid things. I. I don't know. I don't know how to get there. If anybody has advice on how to get to that point, not just in podcasting and in college football, but in life, please advise. Okay. Man, the balls. The ball is. I'm not sure. I'm not a hundred percent sure if the ball is good yet this year, honestly. But it's interesting.
- [46:16]
Bill Landis
It's interesting. It's entertaining and it's interesting. And I think, you know, it's only September, so like if like even like the eagerness to want to defined playoff kind of picture in September is a little silly, but the fact that we really don't have one, it's kind of nice. It's fun.
- [46:32]
Doug Lame Maurice
I will say Ryan Day said this on Tuesday and it was an interesting point that just, it's not breaking news, but the idea that every other sport in the world, you just win. You just win and you win and that's it. And college football is the only sport like this where style points actually do matter. And as much as I just said, man, wouldn't it be easier if it was just two for the Big 12 in the ACC and four for the Big 10 on the SEC and you didn't have to worry about this there? The style points layer over everything that we do for the teams and the players trying to win. The style points for us trying to analyze style points, not just wins and losses, but how impressive were you while you are doing adds a. A level of chaotic uncertainty that more often than not makes me feel like a crazy person who is terrible at his job and trying to talk about this sport. But dang it, Landis, it makes it Interesting. And I think as much as I just advocated for spots that are locked in, I think I would miss it. And I do have to remind myself at times that my own angst about it is, is not what it's about. It's, man, this sport is entertaining as I'll get out.
- [47:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And that, like, that's always been that, like, we've had many discussions about the, the let them lose era, right? And, and what the sport might have lost with that and the recalibration that has to happen. It's still crazy, right? That that's not going anywhere. I don't think maybe come Super League time it'll go away when it's more like the NFL, but until we get to there, that the chaos will remain.
- [48:20]
Doug Lame Maurice
I will say I do not like college football chaos around rules and regulations and cheating and that kind of stuff. I do not find that entertaining. There are some people who like the clown car aspect of college football, and I actually find that it diminishes what we're really all here for, which is fans who really passionately care about these young athletes who put their brains and bodies on the line. And when it's like, aha, money under the table, it's like, I don't find that entertaining. The chaos of trying to figure out who's actually good and who's not, that it doesn't get any better than that. That's great. And, and, and I guess maybe the trade off in the end is if I'm already wound up about the idea of 15, nine and three teams and four of them getting in, there is no right answer. And maybe the thing that we all have to accept at times with college football is that you pursue a good answer, but there's no right answer. There might not even be a best answer. There's today's answer and it's the best you can do. But the chaotic uncertainty for three months, that gives everybody that wonderful knot in their stomach. And in the let them lose era, you're not out of it just because you had a bad weekend. You can remain in the chaos, brother. What's better than that?
- [49:48]
Bill Landis
Nothing.
- [49:50]
Doug Lame Maurice
He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lame Maurice. We do this on our sub stack where you can dive in for Ohio State coverage. We do this where we talk about the Buckeyes here on our YouTube channel, on our podcast channel multiple times a week. On Tuesday nights, we go big picture with our playoff brackets. On Friday we do our national picks, where we will make picks for Oregon, Penn State and Georgia Alabama and all these other games Atlantis mentioned. It's another great weekend of college football, and we are just super excited that guys are along for the ride with us and letting us be part of your fandom. So for now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.