← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
College football's best quarterbacks: Drafting top 15 from Arch Manning to Julian Sayin to CJ Carr
01:35:38
On this episode of The Bill and Doug Show, Matt Fortuna of insidezonemf.com and The Independent podcast on Notre Dame joins Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis to draft the 15 best power conference quarterbacks in the country heading into the season.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Douglas Maurice and Bill Landis joined by special guest Matt Fortuna. He's been here before. He's back. You're gonna see more of them.
- [00:23]
B
Matt and.
- [00:24]
A
And Bill and I work together and, you know, we do some football. Footballing together. And so we're. We're gonna keep talk football, Matt. And folks should get accustomed to seeing our heads together.
- [00:39]
B
Yeah. And the customer seeing this bald head. I mean, Bill's, like, kind of on the fence. I mean, he's wearing the hat right now. Doug, you're the oldest, and yet you're the odd man out when it comes to this. I don't know. I don't know how you should feel about that.
- [00:51]
A
Yeah, I'll get there soon enough. We are going to draft power four quarterbacks for this episode. This is the continuation on the Bill and Doug show of our Ohio State Texas week. This is, you know, a discussion fueled by Arch Manning and Julian saying, bill, I think will be interesting to put them in context. They're certainly going to be drafted two of the 15 guys we're talking about here. But Matt has written about this at his substack. You and I have talked about it, Bill. There are just a lot of interesting quarterbacks returning in major college football this year, whether they are transfers, whether they are guys back at their schools. And I think it's just good context for people here in May to understand. Like, there's a bunch of dudes.
- [01:34]
C
Yeah, there are. I. It was interesting for me, though, like, because I. I had not really gone through and kind of like, mostly, like, take an inventory of sort of my own thoughts about the quarterback class before we. Or quarterback group before we were planning for this show. And it is a really interesting group. It's a really experienced group. But I also, like. It also feels pretty, like, sort of wide open to me. It's like, who might end up actually being the best one by the end of the year, too. So, like, that. That makes it all the more interesting. It's not like I know the NFL draft people sort of have their own opinion about these guys, but for the, Like, a pure college football conversation, I don't know that it's like, that's the guy or like, those are the three or four guys who are, like, definitely the best. I think there's actually potential for some pretty dramatic movement on this list of 15 that we're going to establish here by the time we end up going through the season.
- [02:26]
A
So there's one I do want to talk about the context here about how we evaluate quarterbacks in college football. We think about experience when we think about age, when we think about recruiting rating for younger guys. But Matt, I do want to direct people. You can find our writing@billanddugosu.substack.com Matt, you wrote about this on your substack a couple months ago. If we want to like refresh people on why you wrote about it and if they haven't read it, where they can find it.
- [02:53]
B
Yeah. So you could go to my substack, the inside zone at inside zone mf mf.com my initials I wrote. I feel like I've been harping on this all off season. By Last Road on April 20, I did like a chart if you will of Big Ten quarterback turnover or lack thereof. And certainly some schools have had more than others. Northwestern for example will be starting their ninth different week ones starting quarterback the last nine years which I think explains a lot of the the problems that plague that offense and hopefully ship Kelly, your guy's friend can can come over here and and figure out in the Windy City. Indiana is an interesting one, right? Like you look at Indiana, they are on their so they had a four year, well three year starter technically four year starter Michael Pennock Jr. And since then they've been a run on a run now of six quarterbacks, six years. And you could argue Indiana's gone through like three transformations of their program since then between like the high of the Tom Allen, the low of the Tom Allen to Kirk Signetti and the funniest, maybe funny is not the right word right now, but like the last starting quarterback for the last opening day starting quarterback for Tom Allen. Do you guys remember who that was?
- [03:57]
A
Brendan Soursby.
- [03:58]
B
Yep. I was gonna say a guy who's been on the news a lot lately, Brendan Sorsby at Indiana, which that year ended up actually hurting Indiana and possibly probably swords being the long term. But so it's just interesting looking at all the turnover, right? And yet you've got guys like Julian Saying at Ohio State, Bryce Underwood at Michigan, Malik Washington at Maryland, Dante Moore at Oregon, Ryan Brown's coming back to Purdue, Jada Maiva at usc for all that turnover, it still feels like this is as stable as it's been at that position in quite some time. I mean you could argue that, you know, nationally speaking, maybe the top five preseason teams of the country, if you don't include Indiana in there, will all have their starting quarterbacks back right between Georgia, Texas, Notre Dame and Ohio State. So There's a lot of familiarity there. Like, in preparation for this episode, I just, like, did a quick scan at, like, the Heisman odds, and part of it's, like, the fun exercise of, like, oh, who could be this year's Joe Burrow, right? A guy who's, like, not on the board and maybe wins the Heisman out of nowhere. The other part of it is, like, oh, who can you actually bet on? And you had to go really, really far down the list to see. Still see some names that are, like, familiar to the average college football fan because these guys have been in school for so long. I mean, Lenora Sellers, right? This was a guy who was hyped up a lot last year and probably underperformed his third. His team certainly underperformed. But, like, doesn't mean he's back. He's bad. Like, he's back. I don't know how good his team is gonna be, but he's still a damn good football player, last I checked. So there are guys up and down. I mean, Drake Lindsay, another guy who's unfortunately been in the news for the wrong reasons, but, like, a returning starter in the Big Ten. Solid.
- [05:30]
A
Now, let. Let me say this about my guy, Drake Lindsay. Drake Lindsay is from Arkansas. They didn't recruit him because that's how
- [05:40]
B
you got arrested in that town for that thing, won the Heisman the next year. I'm just saying.
- [05:44]
A
Who is that?
- [05:45]
B
Baker Mayfield.
- [05:47]
A
Oh, but it's so. So he goes. He's from Arkansas. He goes to Minnesota to play quarterback. He's good. He goes back to Arkansas, he has a fake id and he gets a beer, which every college student in America does. And if he was the starting quarterback at Arkansas, they would have given him his ID back and said, whatever. Hook them Hogs where they sit down there. But because Not.
- [06:08]
C
Because not at an upstand, upstanding establishment like the. Let me say I get this right. The Yeehawk Bar. Where?
- [06:16]
A
The Hog Bar. You know what they do at the E. Hog Bar? They arrest gophers, right? So it's like, oh, Drake Lindsay got in trouble. You mean by doing the thing that literally every college student in America does, which is get a fake ID when you're 20 and go to a bar. And in Arkansas, do you know how many SEC football players are having fake IDs and going to bars in SEC towns? You think they're all getting arrested? You think that the jails would be filled. The jails would be filled to the brim with Georgia speeders and fake id SEC football players. So they pinched Drake Lindsay. So I just want to defend my guy.
- [06:51]
B
Bill might have been there for this. I. I got caught with one at Penn State about two weeks before I turned 21 and basically got into a staring contest with the bouncer where he finally gave in and somehow I won. So if I can't get in trouble for it and can't get arrested as a journalist at a football school and say, I don't know how an actual Big Ten quarterback can get arrested for
- [07:12]
A
it in Arkansas, you can get arrested. So anyway, there's a lot of guys back, and I do. There's. I want to. I want to give a little context from a year ago, because I do think it has changed. Because, Bill, if you remember, like, we had the conversations last year when you really looked at, like, the top, like the top eight teams in the preseason last year. Ohio State, Texas, Georgia, Notre Dame, Alabama, and kind of Oregon. Dante Moore had started a few games at ucla, had new starting quarterbacks, and it was like, wow, what is going to happen? This is a wide open thing. And then Penn State and Clemson had returning starting quarterbacks. And that was why a lot of people, me, maybe you guys, like, we. We like Clemson. We thought Penn State was a national title contender because you were looking for veteran quarterback play, because so many of the blue bloods had new quarterbacks. And so we wound up in a national title game with two veteran transfer quarterbacks in Indiana's Fernando Mendoza and Miami's Carson Beck. But we also had a bunch of the veteran. I looked at the top 14 teams in the preseason AP poll last year. Seven of them had new quarterbacks, seven of them had veteran quarterbacks. Okay. Of the 17s with new quarterbacks, four made the playoff. Two almost did. Texas and Notre Dame and Michigan went nine and four with a true freshman and Bryce Underwood. The seven teams that had veteran starting quarterbacks last year who were in the. For the top 14 in the preseason, the only one that made the playoff was Miami with Carson Beck. Penn State went 7 and 6 with Drew Aller. The coach got fired. Clemson went 7 and 6 with Kade Klubnick. LSU went 7, 6 with Garrett Nussmeier. I know he was hurt, but he was overrated the whole time anyway. But Brian Kelly got fired. Arizona State went 8 and 5. Sam Levitt got hurt. Illinois went 9 and 4 with Luke Altmeyer. They were fine, but, like, they didn't take huge leap in South Carolina. You said Lenora Sellers is a good player. They went 4 and 8 last year. Matt So I mean like I get
- [09:11]
B
the whole defense which no one counted for because they were focused too much on the quarterback.
- [09:15]
A
So like my point, like Bill a year ago we were like, hey, there's a bunch of good teams with new quarterbacks. Maybe the teams with veteran quarterbacks intrigue us. And then a bunch of the teams with veteran quarterbacks died and a bunch of the teams, the blue bloods with first year quarterbacks were like pretty good. Oregon was good, Ohio State was good. Right. So like we, I think there might be a temptation to focus on like man Fernando Mendoza, Carson Beck, you need a veteran to win. But like a lot of, a lot of the young quarterbacks who hadn't done it before actually like we're pretty solid. Like they weren't perfect but they didn't torpedo their team seasons.
- [09:55]
C
Yeah and it's interesting too looking at. And like we don't have any polls at the moment obviously but I'm just looking like the SP plus that Bill Conley put out for the preseason like every. Everyone in the. Well I guess Texas Tech is the exception. Like everyone in the top 10 knows who their quarterback is.
- [10:09]
A
I have a poll so let, so let me give you a poll then. So like if we want to run through that. I just did like I just grabbed somebody's right. I CBS Sports did like a 1 through 138 so I grabbed theirs right. Just consents whatever. Ohio State number one, Julian saying he's back. Texas number two, Arch Manning. He's back. Oregon number three, Dante Moore. He's back. Notre Dame number four, C.J. carr. He's back. Georgia number five, Gunner Stockton. He's back. Indiana number six, Josh Hoover, veteran transfer. Miami number seven, Dari Mens, a veteran transfer. Texas A M number eight, Marcel Reed is back. Texas Tech number nine. It would have been Brendan Sorsby. Now it's probably Will Hammond who made three starts in his career. Number 10, Oklahoma. John Mateer is back. Number 11, Alabama. New guy with Keelan Russell. Number 12, Trinidad Shambliss at Ole Miss is back. Number 13, LSU. Sam Levitt's transfer. Number 14, USC. Jade Maeve is back. Number 15, BYU. Bear Bachmeyer is back. Number 16, Michigan. Bryce Underwood's back. So of the top 16 teams in this thing, every single one of them has a quarterback with at least 13 career starts except Texas Tech and Alabama. Bill.
- [11:15]
C
Yeah, that's kind of crazy. Which kind of. But, but it also like that's part of the reason why I said what I said earlier. It's like all that's good. I think all that is like, you know, it raises the floor, I guess of all these teams, but it sort of like sets a. It was fun last year, sort of like not knowing any, who anybody was. But I, I kind of find it a little more interesting to have all these guys back to sort of have some thoughts formed on what they are, but then think about what they could become and then try to envision, you know, once they play a full season's worth of games, like who is actually going to be the one who makes the biggest jump, who ends up, whatever, winning the Heisman or becoming the best quarterback in the country. It doesn't, I mean, I guess famous last words, like it feels like there isn't going to be that quarterback that comes out of nowhere. It just feels like everyone's so well established this coming into the season that I, I would be pretty surprised if we're looking up at the end of the year and the, we are all saying the best quarterback in the country is not someone who we're not already pretty familiar with right now.
- [12:12]
B
I, I wonder how much of this is the copycat nature of the sport and seeing a guy like Kirk Signetti who in two years with a very simple philosophy, right, Production over potential turned Indiana completely upside down and because everyone you mentioned, they're not, Doug, they're not all at the same school they were at, but they're all guys we're familiar with, right? Whether it's Josh Hoover, whomever, Sam Levitt, these are all guys who have played a lot of football. And I just think, especially if you want to make a championship run and you can look back probably at least five years, I mean look, look at all the quarterbacks have been championship games, whether they've been one year rentals or not. They've all been upperclassmen, right? This past year, obviously Will Howard against Riley Leonard again, those were two late round draft picks, but they're two guys that had a lot of reps under the belt and knew what they were doing. J.J. mcCarthy against Michael Pennock Jr. The year before that, I think you could go on and on. So I, I think the importance of having a leader there, knowing that if you're a good quarterback, you're going to play because someone's going to pay to get you is ultimately the biggest differentiator like I have a hard time seeing. Obviously. You know, there's Tavian Sinclair at Ohio State and they're, they're good, talented freshmen or sophomore quarterbacks on good rosters throughout the country. But I, I almost feel like last year was the anomaly, right where like CJ Carr maybe not going to win the job. Is Julian saying maybe not going to win the job? I mean Lincoln Keenholes is a guy who's getting a lot of off season hype pretty much based off what we heard he did in camp against Julian Sane, who ended up being a Heisman finalist. Same with Kenny Minchi at Kentucky. Right, Based off what we heard he did in camp against C.J. carr, who's now the Heisman front runner. And to Bill's point, you know, I don't know if there's any value picks on this board if you're like trying to pick a Heisman, right? Like I gun to head if you told me to pick one player like odds, I guess we'll get to this with the draft. Like Yeah, I take CJ Carr probably over anyone, but like a plus 800. Like not when I could get Trinidad shambless a lot lower or you know, someone else a lot lower. So I think there are a lot of known commodities right now in a way that's probably healthy for the sport because I think that breeds interest and it maintains interest. And it's not just, oh, who's this, who's this guy? I need to learn all over again on, on my team. On the team I follow. But I just think it's, it's so different from this year and I think a lot of that directly or indirectly goes back to just seeing how Crooks and Eddie made it look almost easy by winning a title in two years.
- [14:33]
A
Indiana, the top 16 that I referenced, 11 of them have returning starting quarterbacks. They have their starter back from last year. Three have veteran transfers to have new starting quarterbacks who haven't really played. By my count, the 68 power conference teams, I have 30 getting ready to play like a transfer starter, 26 preparing to have their, their starting quarterback from last year back. So that's 56 of the 30, 10 probably playing a new guy who was in house like a backup last year who. Or maybe a true freshman who hasn't played very much. And then I have two that are like they're two. I don't know who it's going to be. Arkansas and Kansas both seem like three way battles right now. So they can figure it out. We'll add them to the list later and it would be even more Bill, Brendan Soares be a Texas Tech. Obviously he's, he was, he had 30 career starts. If he doesn't play this year, that changes things and Then when I first did this in February, people maybe thought Joey Aguilar at Tennessee was going to get a seventh year. He had 36 career starts. It now seems like Tennessee might start a true freshman. So that's like two more teams in the top 25 that would have had super veteran quarterbacks that won't. But we're still at like 56 of 68 who aren't just getting ready to play like last year's backup or a new young guy. They have a more certain answer. Not all the transfers are certainties. Right. Because if your transfer is Lincoln Keenholz, Louisville is going to play Lincoln Keenholtz. So I count him as a transfer, but also he hasn't played. But part of my point there is that the idea of there's just so few people in the power four this year who are like, okay, well, we have a guy that we recruited who hasn't played yet, who's gonna be the starter. That's. That's not what the mo. 80 of the teams are not doing that. They either have a guy back or they went and got somebody because that's the way the sport works.
- [16:29]
C
Do you guys think, like, because, Matt, you just said maybe last year was a little bit of an outlier. Could it be like a bit of a cycle here? Like, like, could it be like in every. If almost everyone into Power 4 has quarterback experience, whether that's a returning starter or an experienced transfer they brought in, do we think, like, next year it's going to go back to a bunch of red shirt freshmen and sophomores going to be starting again like it kind of felt last year?
- [16:54]
B
I wonder, like, I'll use this as an example. This is not like any inside information, but, you know, Fernando Mendoza's brother was on Indiana's roster and they decided to get someone else. Fernando Mendoza, excuse me. Alberto Mendoza then says, okay, I'm going to Georgia Tech, where I'm presumably going to start. I think he's got multiple years of eligibility left. If he lights the world on fire at Georgia Tech this year, what's stopping Kirk Signetti from saying, like, all right, you got the experience you need. Come back and do what your brother did for us. I wonder how many potential situations like that one we could see where it's, you know, Keen holes is a great.
- [17:25]
C
Are you calling it right now? Lincoln Kelsey is going to be Ohio State starting quarterback?
- [17:28]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, I was gonna say. Yeah, like, I was gonna say Ohio State, but, like, he lights it up with Jeff Prom. Does he go somewhere big? I Don't know. Certainly down south they've been very aggressive with pursuing these guys. I mean, I remember I was at the, I was in Miami for the national title game. That Friday was the last day of the portal. And I want to say it was Barry Jackson, the Miami Herald reporter who tweeted like, last day of the portal. And Miami doesn't have a quarterback. Don't be surprised if a big name enters who you're not expecting and sure enough, it's Dari Mensa and they go through the lawsuit and yada, yada, yada, and Miami gets their guy because that's what you do when you've got a lot of money and a determined head coach. And so, yeah, I mean, whether it's Keen Hole said Ohio State or Mendoza, Alberto Mendoza going back to Indiana, like, I think everything's on the table in the sport as we see it right now. And I wouldn't breathe easy if I were anyone right now, short of like, hey, my quarterback just won the national title, so he's either going to the draft or coming back to us.
- [18:24]
A
It is odd though, Bill. A lot of the blue bloods are on the same cycle, right? That like so like Ohio State neck like next year it could be Julian Sands gone, it's Tavian Sinclair, Georgia could be Gunner Stockton's gone, it's Ryan Puglisi, Oregon could be Dante Moore's gone, it's Dylan Raiola. Texas could be Arch Manning's gone, it's Diabell, right? Like they could be next year. We're back on the thing where there's a, a bunch of blue bloods who have starting quarterbacks preparing to make their first starts because. But then again it's Indiana's at an interesting cut line that they're, they're honestly might be like six teams like this, like, right. It's like Georgia, Alabama, Texas, Oregon, Ohio State, Notre Dame who are like we're going to recruit high school quarterbacks, develop them and plan to play them. Although again, as Matt mentioned, Riley Leonard at, at Notre Dame, Will Howard at Ohio State, like they, they've also done that route too. But if, if they're the ones doing that. But I do think that's where a year ago, Bill, we were looking for if the blue bloods who are playing their five star quarterbacks who don't have any experience, are they going to. Which opens the door for Indiana and Fernando Mendoza because they got a ready made dude. And so if you're that kind of program where you're not trying to recruit and Develop five star high school quarterbacks. That's not your plan. You want a veteran every single year, whether it's your veteran or somebody else's veteran who you bring in. And then certain years that might be more of an advantage than others. But for instance, as it worked out right now, I think Alabama in a, in an incredibly important year, even though they just gave Kaylin DeBoer $50 million a year for 100 years for some reason like they're the, they're kind of like the only ones because they had it last year and then Ty Simpson only started for one year and left. Right. So, but like they're, they're on the off cycle where they're breaking in Keelan Russell while everybody else has a veteran guy. And I wonder how much of a disadvantage that is for Alabama this year.
- [20:20]
C
Yeah, I, I, I, I'm sure a lot of people say would say that it, that it is because I like there's there and I understand why it's the case. There is this growing sentiment that maybe you can't win a national championship with a younger quarterback anymore. And like these guys that we're talking about are not younger quarterbacks because like C.J. carr and Julian saying like all these guys are going into their 30 years in college. I do kind of feel like the sport maybe like needs a homegrown quarterback to win a national title this year to like calm everybody, to calm everyone down a little bit. Right? Because like there is a point of diminishing returns with this. Right. It's like, oh, we're just going to get somebody else's veteran start. It's like, well, at a certain point there are, but there will be not enough veteran starters for the good teams to then go steal. Right. So it's tricky. I get it. But I like and not everyone has access to the CJ Cars and Julian Sains, although more teams might now because everyone can spend money and you can choose to spend out every which way you want. If we can get back to a place in the sport where the Nash, the guy who's hosting the national championship at the end of, the end of the year is not a guy who was only there for seven months and is 25 years old, I think that would be maybe good for the, the health of the quarterback position.
- [21:38]
B
I mean everyone rallied around Michigan, right. It was a feel good story.
- [21:41]
C
That's right. That's right. What is fair and square too fair
- [21:44]
B
and square and it's all worked out Pick and he's thriving. No, I love jj. I don't want to drag on him. But I wonder, like Oregon to me is such a unique case, right, because it's a top five program in the country right now. They're a contender every year and you've got back to back instances now where they've essentially convinced a highly recruited high school quarterback to transfer to their program and take a gap year year. And I don't see anyone else doing it. And I'm not saying this is going to be a trend. I'm not saying Dylan Ryle is going to work out. However, they got him there and he was a highly sought after prospect and we've already seen it work out with Dante Moore. We'll see how high it works out depending on how Oregon does this year. But if the guy came out after last year, he would have been a first round pick, no question about it. So I wonder what that means for Oregon. They also lost their OC Will Stein, which I think is a bigger loss than a lot of people are or giving it credit for right now. But you just don't know, right? I mean, their name's obviously in a good spot with, with C.J. carr right now. Marcus Freeman was asked point Blake this spring, like, is next year starting quarterback on this roster? Do you know what you're going to do yet? And in typical coach speak, he's basically said like, yeah, I hope so, but if it turns out he's not, we're gonna have to do something. And you know, I get asked all the time by fans like, well, who's it going to be next year? I think the easy answer is it's somebody who's not on the roster right now. Right. Like to. I just think it's a safer assumption that if you're a blue blood program, you'll have the dollars and the cachet to bring in an established starting quarterback to lead what should be a championship contending team rather than choose from a group of three right now, none of whom have ever taken a snap at a college game or proven anything. None of whom are really the kind of high school profile ballyhooed recruit that CJ Carr was. Not saying it can't happen. I just think the smart money's on a program like Notre Dame going out and getting someone else. I would say that for Ohio State, but they got Tavian Sinclair. So I think they're at least invested in his success for next year.
- [23:36]
A
But, well, when we've had conversations here, it's like, and on our substack too. Like, you know, you project things Bill and I did a show on our substack Talking about 2028 Ohio State and who that whole roster. But who might the quarterback be? And could it be year two of Tavian Sinclair as a fourth year player and you can like wind yourself up about it. And then Bill, you were kind of like, they'll find somebody. Like, yeah, like, yeah, like on one hand, like, who's Notre Dame's quarterback going to be next year? Who's Ohio State's quarterback going to be in 2028? On the other hand, I don't know. Somebody good who transfers in. That's the answer these days.
- [24:11]
B
I mean, when Marcus Freeman was flirting with the NFL this off season and he announced he's coming back, he just said running back for 2026. Like it was like a junior saying, I'm coming back for my senior year or whatever. Yeah. Or. Yeah. Or redshirt junior saying, I'm coming back my redshirt senior year. Like there was no like verbal, I'm sure there's contract, but there was no verbal commitment of like, we're gonna build this thing out for the next five to 10 years. Because I don't think that exists in college football anymore. So I, yeah, I say all, it's all that to say, like the conversation we're having right now about quarterbacks, we're being had about coaches right now, right. It's hard to predict who the quarterback's gonna be in these programs if you don't know who the coaches are going to be. I mean, who would have thought at this time last year James Franklin would be out of job six months from now, five months from now, right? Brian Kelly. Same thing with, especially with the big deals they had. So this is very much a year to year sport right now. It makes for, I think it's great for us in the talking business, but it makes it very, very hard to predict like who's going to start where next year when you've got coaches who are leaving playoff runs like Lane Kiffin did this past year. Foreign
- [25:12]
A
I'd like to give a PSA here very quick before we get to our draft. People in our business have no freaking idea what they're talking about. And it is, has been my strategy in media to not pretend that I'm smarter than everybody else, but to very clearly point out that everybody else is just as dumb as me. So with that in mind, I looked at Greg McElroy and Joel Klatt a year ago, who their top 10 quarterbacks were going into the 2025 season. And we can run through that and explain why. If Greg McElroy and Joe Clatt are this stupid, then it's okay if we're this stupid, too. Greg McElroy's top 10. Number one, Clemson's Cade Clubnik. Number two, Oklahoma's John Matiere. Number three, Arizona State senior Sam Levitt. Number four, Penn State's Drew Aller. Number five, LSU's Garrett Nussmeier. Number six, Miami's Carson Beck. Number seven, Lenora Sellers of South Carolina. Number eight, Sawyer Robertson of Baylor. Number nine, D.J. lagway of Florida. Number 10, Haynes King of Georgia Tech. That list makes me puke in my mouth.
- [26:23]
B
It was four of the first five you mentioned all suffered injuries, most of which were season ending. I will say that.
- [26:30]
A
But Drew Aller was not good before then.
- [26:33]
B
He was not Sam Levitt, John Matiere.
- [26:36]
A
John. The national media got up its own hiney hole about John Matier last off season, and there is no doubt about that. They thought John Mateer was some combination of Cam Ward and Baker Mayfield. And he's fine.
- [26:54]
C
He's good.
- [26:55]
A
He's fine. But also, like, where's Fernando Mendoza on this list? There's no Fernando Mendoza on this list. Right? John Matiere. I could. John Matier conversations last off season. My ears were bleeding. John Mattier and Garrett Nussmeier. I'll get fine. You were hurt, Bill. Awful.
- [27:13]
C
Is Haynes King the best quarterback on that list?
- [27:16]
A
Yeah, he might be. Give me. Give me 10. Haynes Kings. What a ballerina.
- [27:20]
C
What's Sawyer Robertson doing right now?
- [27:22]
A
Is he selling insurance?
- [27:24]
B
What? What is this?
- [27:26]
A
Joe Clatt, number one, Kate Klubnick, number two, Arch Manning, number three, John Matier, number four, Sam Levitt, number five, Drew Aller, number six, Garrett Nussmeier, number seven, DJ Lagway. Number eight, Lenora Sellers, number nine, Luke Altmire. Number ten, Carson Beck. You will note that these lists, I mean, they get SEC heavy, right? And, like, if you go, well, I know. I was like. And it was like, why isn't Luke Altmeyer getting more. Getting more run here? Nobody respects Luke Altman. It's like, it's fine, right? I mean, it's fine, right? Again, Diego. But for all the SEC love, no Diego Pavia. Nobody's talked about Diego Pavia, right? So I just think quarterback is hard to predict. We think about this with, with the NFL a lot. But even as we're talking about, man, there's a lot of veteran guys back. Just because there's veteran guys back, I still don't know that we Know what? Which of the veteran guys are going to be actually good? Which of the veteran guys are going to take a leap and which of the veteran guys are going to take a step back? Because there are definitely going to be veteran guys who take a step back.
- [28:29]
B
I can't believe they both had K Club Nick at number one. Like that, to me is just like blind faith that the tide's going to turn for Clemson because it's been sinking one way for the last five years or so. That port is hard for me to understand. It's funny you mentioned the NFL dog, because, like, yeah, there are a lot of bus quarterbacks and yet. And granted, I'm a college guy, I'm not an NFL guy, but I from far away from 30,000ft, it's very easy for me to diagnose, like, that talent was failed by his organization. Right? And I think Sam Darlo was a perfect example of that. When we see what he's been able to do in an adult organization. Every quarterback that you just mentioned that these guys mentioned last year and that we've talked about, like, every. They're all from blue bloods or teams that are contenders this year. So it's not like Kate Club Dick was failed by Clemson. Now, I, Terry Smith already said what we've all been saying privately, right? Like, Penn State failed Drew Aller. Now, does that mean he's going to go on to be a great NFL player? I don't know.
- [29:23]
A
But, you know, they have Steelers camp footage. They're like, the Steelers are having to teach Drew Aller everybody to drop back because his footwork is so terrible.
- [29:32]
B
The Steelers told us that when we were covering him for the Daily Collegiate, he got to the combine, didn't know what language they were speaking because Chapter two Turner ruined him. But that, that's a theme there. And I would say it was a
- [29:41]
C
long history coaching at Penn State.
- [29:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, Franklin did a lot of good things at Penn State, but, like, there's not one time outside of Trace McSorley where I looked and thought, man, I'm a quarterback. I want to go play for that guy right now. Like, yeah, nothing, nothing in 12 years there that indicated it outside of McSorley's two years. So I was not surprised to hear Terry Smith say what he said, nor am I surprised to hear NFL folks going gaga over this guy. Now, again, I don't know if that means he's going to be a good pro, but I do think he was failed by the people around him. And I think there, there are several instances around the country where you can point to that as being the case for these guys. But still, I think it's a lot harder to predict at the college level because these are all programs and coaching staffs, administrations that are in it to win it, that are investing at the highest level, that are paying top dollar for these coaches, for these quarterbacks in a way that again, I don't think there are, despite the parody filled NFL, I think they're serious organizations. Then there's like the jets, where I don't blame Justin Fields for not coming out because he gets picked second by the Jets. His career is over in five years, period. Even if he gets drafted later next year, I think he's got a better chance of succeeding long term.
- [30:54]
A
29 of the power conference projected starters have made at least 20 career starts. That's like practically half. Again, some of them are like Harvard, right? But again, like, you've played, you've been on the field, you've been under pressure, you've read defenses, you've hurt, dealt with the crowd. Like, I'll tell you what, like those, those Dartmouth crowd, man, they'll get on you, right? So like again, you know, like you've, you've been through it a little bit. I think in this draft it's some like, you know, it's not who's going to have the most passing yards, who's gonna have the most passing touchdowns, who's going to win the Heisman, who's going to win the national championship. It's just like, who's gonna, like, who's gonna have the best year, like what all those things are. And I just did like a rough list of like who were the best 15 quarterbacks by the, just like, you know what a general consensus would be? I would say 10 of the 15 are back. So like Fernando Mendoza is gone, Diego Pavi is gone, Haynes King is gone, Carson Beck is gone.
- [31:49]
C
Right?
- [31:49]
A
But like, again, a lot of the pretty good quarterbacks are back. Some part of this is to figure out during Ohio State, Texas week here on the Bill and Doug show where Arch Manning and Julian saying fit in all to this. But again, Matt, you, you know a lot about the Big Ten, you know a lot about Notre Dame. Like, I'm very curious where CJ fits into this. I'm very curious if Penn State and Rocco back, like, is he going to get drafted in our top 15 where stuff like there's some other, you know, Dante Moore at Oregon, jaden Maeve at USC, there's some interesting big guys big 10 guys involved here. And Bill, let's let Matt pick first.
- [32:24]
C
Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah.
- [32:27]
B
Pressure, I will say, just to pick back up, who's going to be the Trinidad Chambers of this year, A guy who's not starting right now, but be it through injury or like a great spot performance turns into this revelation, even though he was playing D2 or D3 ball here before for. Don't know.
- [32:40]
A
Yeah, there is, like. I mean, you think about back to what's his name? Danny Duggan. Who is that guy who was the second? Max Dugan. Yeah, Max Duggan. Max Dugan finished second. The Heisman takes the team. The national championship game didn't start week one.
- [32:54]
B
Sorry.
- [32:55]
A
Right. So, like, like, there. There's stuff. There is stuff like that.
- [32:57]
B
Gamers, right? Yeah, that.
- [32:59]
A
Like somebody. But. But again, there's like, there's circumstance, right? So there. There might be a guy who's sitting there lurking, ready to do that, but is not going to get the opportunity because his starter is too good and too healthy to do it. There's somebody, if he's listening right now, Dylan Raiola is raising his hand, is saying, and it's me. Like, it's me at Oregon. If anything happens to Dante Moore, I'm here. I'm ready for it. I don't know who I would. But. But that's the point, too. Like, for all the things we don't know. Matt first, Bill second, me third. Not a snake draft. We'll just go back. So, like, I just. It's not here to win. We're talking about, like, talk about ball. Like, we'll go back and forth. Yeah, you can go third if you want. You want to go third?
- [33:40]
C
Yeah. Actually, number two is the most difficult pick in the draft. I want to go third.
- [33:44]
A
Oh, okay. So. So Matt first, me second, Bill third, and then we'll keep that order the whole time. So we're not, like, wrapping around. We'll each make five picks. We'll draft 15 power conference quarterbacks overall. No offense to the guys in the American or, I don't know, UConn or anywhere else, but, like, all those best quarterbacks are here anyway. Like, there might be two guys drafted here who are, like the two best quarterbacks in the American last year who followed their head coaches to the power four and might show up on this list. So it's an interesting list. We'll get some context here. Matt Fortuna, first pick to you.
- [34:15]
B
Joe Pagnano just got picked up with Diego Pavia by the Ravens. UConn's quarterback who had like the best INT ratio ever last year. Assuming this is just like who do I want? I have a blank roster. I'm doing it irregardless of personnel and heismanots. I'll take C.J.
- [34:28]
C
car.
- [34:29]
A
Okay. Like Bill, Bill, you're yang it like is that, do you think that's a consensus?
- [34:37]
B
No, no.
- [34:38]
A
He would be the number one pick. Okay.
- [34:40]
C
I don't know. I know, but, but, but for me, he will like this. I, I, that's why I said the second picks the hardest. Because I think Car was, was pretty obvious number one for me.
- [34:48]
A
Really?
- [34:49]
C
Yeah. But he was number one for me. Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:53]
A
Okay. Matt, why is he number one for you?
- [34:57]
B
I think he's probably the most adaptable of all these guys. I think he's obviously got the makeup, he's got the pedigree, the coaching, the family tree, yada, yada, yada. But the way he was able to just come in there and lead that team and everything I've heard out of that locker room, the leader he is on and off the field. He does not strike me as your typical college junior. He's very, very mature. I don't think he, I mean he, look, he made some mistakes at times. Last year, the USC game, he had a couple of brain farts that he would have liked to have back. But I do think with a year of seasoning and with the coaching he has from a guy, Mike Denbrock, who I love because Mike Denbrock's mos, I'm going to figure out a way to put more points on the board than you. And it doesn't matter who my quarterback is, that's what we're going to do. And I just think CJ Carr is the most plug and play of everyone here. I'm not sure anyone else on this list I would take and put on any single roster and think, all right, they're going to be okay with him at the under center. I do feel that way, CJ Car
- [35:56]
A
and I do think this is a little bit of the example of, of what we were talking about last year. I mean again, Bill, like remember like a first spring game for C.J.
- [36:04]
C
car, right?
- [36:04]
A
I was like, man, like C.J. car, like that. But it, like Matt, it took a couple a game or two, right? And if he, if he had not been, if CJ Carr had not been a first year starter, would Notre Dame have won one of those first two games and made the playoff and then maybe won the national championship?
- [36:24]
B
So I brought this up a couple weeks Ago on our show on the Independent, he got outplayed at camp by Kenny Minchi by every single account. Like it was a surprise based on that month that he was named the starter. That said, when you've got a talent and a recruit like that and a guy who's so good that Steve Angelli after the spring game was like, I'm out of here. I don't know why they had a competition. I think they sacrificed way too many reps for this guy. I don't think he responded well to it in a practice setting. And therefore he had to play a little bit slower than he eventually played and went up being the two biggest games of the year. I will also add, and this speaks more to like the long term value, I think off the walking off the field when they lose A M, what was it, 4140 or 42? 41? Car had a good game. A guy in A M SAP said, by the way, Car was tipping his pitches. Every time he moved his leg like this, we knew he was running. Every time he did it like this, we knew he was passing. And sure enough, talk some people in our name, they noticed it as well, they corrected it. And it was like with A M knowing what he was doing on every play, he still threw for like 284 yards and put up over 40 points. So yes, now that he's presumably got all those mistakes out of his system, I can't wait to see what this guy can do. And he didn't have a great group of receivers last year because they already rarely if ever has a great group of receivers. Although they might this year with the two guys from your backyard coming.
- [37:45]
A
He would not. He would not have been my first pick. And I like C.J. carr a lot. Why? Why would he have been your first pick, Bill?
- [37:56]
C
Well, I think if you consider the group of guys, there's probably four or five that I think you could pick number one. I don't think there's like a ton of separation between how all those guys played last year. And I think when you factor in what Matches said about like Carr and the weapons he had his disposal now, he had a tremendous run game. He had maybe the best run game in the country. And he had a really good offensive line. He just didn't have the receiver firepower. I thought there was like a poison maturity with him last year that was pretty impressive. Even like in the Miami game, like, he wasn't great. He did look overwhelmed at times. But if you compare, like, if you compare how C.J. carr played in his first career start against Miami to how Julian Saying, for instance, played in his 13th career start against Miami. Like car probably played better. So like I, like I, I kind of factor that in a little bit as well. You know, he's got, he's not like a runner, but he's like, he's got really good like sack avoidance numbers too, which I think is always impressive for a young guy who's not particularly mobile or not like, you know, like super dynamic running the ball. So he's just, you know, he checks a lot of boxes. Got good size too. So I was, I was probably too strong when I said like he was the obvious one for me. But he would have been my first pick among, among the, the group that I think you could actually consider fairly. I think he's, I think he's got a little more substance to him or at least like put a little more of that substance on display last year more consistently.
- [39:18]
A
Okay, okay, this is it. I actually had him fifth on my list and I love CJ Carr, but I was trying to check myself a little bit. So I'll take the guy that I had number one on my list and I'll take Dante Moore from Oregon. And this I, I think is a little bit like based on sort of traits and like when the NFL was talking about him that if, if he would have come out, he would have been probably the second quarterback taken behind Fernando Mendoza. He might have gone in the top five. That like he's viewed that way 30 touchdowns, 10 picks a year ago, like not ridiculous numbers. You know, he had that great throw against Iowa to pull out that game in the rain. But he also threw for 112y game. That was like a tough game to try to figure out. Again, like blitzed sort of by Indiana in the playoff loss. So it is a little bit of a projection, but I think when you look at the guy and he's 63 and he has I think the arm and he can move around and now the extra year of experience, it's based on like, I just think there's like a traits upside that I'll take ahead of anybody else on the board. But he's, I don't, he wasn't perfect last year. Bill would. How high do you have Dante Moore on your list?
- [40:36]
C
He was the one that I was sort of most kind of conflicted on because like the NFL conversation I get, he's big, he can move, he's got a strong arm, he's got a lot of treats. He was bad on all their big games last year, like, bad, bad, bad. And all the, in all of Oregon's game, like, he played worse against Indiana than Julian Saying did. In two games against Indiana, he played worse than Julian Saying did. His numbers under pressure are bad for a guy who can run. So, like, I, like, I'm not, I'm not saying that I think Dante Moore is a bad quarterback. I do think he's good. I think he's got a real chance to, to take a step forward this year. But I don't think you, like, look at the body of work from last season and think, like, yep, that's, that's the guy who's definitely going to be the best quarterback in the country this year. I think he's got a lot of, like, all these guys, he's got a lot of. He's got a lot of room to grow. And it's just, it's very interesting to me. And part of it's because, like, we're close. We're close in proximity to it, though, because we, we cover Ohio State and we're in Columbus. Like, this ongoing conversation about Julian saying and how like, poorly, quote, unquote, poorly he played in, in the last two games of the year against Indiana and Miami. And for some reason, like, none of that gets attached to Dante Moore when he was like, just as bad in games that were just as important for Oregon. Like, and like, and his overall postseason numbers are better than saying it's because Dante Moore got to play against James Madison in the first game of the playoffs. So, like, it's, it's. I think it's a fine pick. Like, again, like, I think there are four guys and more is one of them that could be any, any order, sort of like in the top four of this draft. But Dante Moore for me is like, not like a slam dunk kind of kind of guy in this conversation. I think he will be good, but I still have some questions about him improving in the moments where Oregon needs him to play at his best.
- [42:21]
B
I would piggyback off that. I mean, I think you can win a national championship with him, but I don't know if he's a difference maker, like, the guy who's going to win it for you. And by that I mean, yeah, he didn't play great against Indiana either game, the second game. And I don't say this to give him a pass, but like, I was told by someone on that staff because there were all the conspiracy theories about Indiana, right? Oh, my God, they had a pick six receiver Ran the wrong route. Not Morse fault. Plain and simple. They were down to what, their fourth and fifth string running backs, one of whom bumps into him in the end zone. They fumble it. And again, I don't pin those two plays on more, but I didn't see anything. And again, I'm talking about this from, like, the TV copy, but I didn't see anything where it's like, all right, this guy's not gonna let this happen again. He's going to, you know, get that chip on his shoulder and, you know, balls to the wall, come back and we're. No. It felt like him in that entire program just completely shrunk from the moment in that time. And so again, you know, two years in a row where Oregon beats everyone except for the eventual national champion. I think you can win it all with this guy, especially with that roster, but I don't think he's like. I don't know if he's like, that alpha is going to come in and completely change things for you the minute he walks in. And again, new first time oc, if I'm not mistaken, this year as well.
- [43:29]
C
He had a revolving door at receiver last year.
- [43:31]
A
A lot of injuries.
- [43:33]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:34]
A
Evan Stewart, out the whole year, wound up, like, trying to rely on a true freshman, a decent chunk of it. Did have a great tight end, and Kenyan Sadiq was a first round pick. And he'll be missed, but, like, the receivers will be healthier. But again, we're sort of like trying to, like, think about these guys in a vacuum. Right. And it's like, okay, well, I don't know.
- [43:48]
C
You're.
- [43:49]
A
But you know, if you're the dude, like, you should rise up and do it. I did. Like, he'd made, like, the throw of the year against Iowa. Right. I mean, like, I legitimately think that's as good of a throw as anybody made all year to put that in a tight window against Iowa to sort of find a way to win that game late. But it is. It's like primarily a traits projection. But then, like, Bill, as you make your pick, like, is the point. There is no, like, there's like a top group, but there's nobody. There's no perfect guy. Right. That you.
- [44:21]
C
Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah.
- [44:23]
A
Yeah. So, all right, who taking third?
- [44:26]
C
I'm gonna take Julian saying third.
- [44:28]
A
Okay. Can I also say this. Is this one of those where the closer you are to the situation around one of these guys, like, you see the faults and then from afar, it's like that guy's pretty good, you know that like, oh, we both just picked
- [44:47]
B
the guys we cover. So I don't know if it applies.
- [44:49]
C
Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like, I, I. Part of this I think is me like what is like, is like wanting to push back against the conversation about Julian saying that I think is like starting to go off the rails a little bit. Like I get it. He's not 6 foot 4. He might not be a first round pick. He's good man. Like, I don't know what I would like. He's got things he needs to work on. Yes, he, and, and part of that is like play extension and how he handles pressure and making sure that he's not taking as many sacks as he took at the end of last season. And he's got to be more aggressive at times throwing the ball down the field. I'm not saying he's a flawless quarterback because none of these guys are, but his accuracy is ridiculous. The, the, the, the, the, the speed of like the process of which he gets his ball out of a ball out of his hand is, is ridiculous. Like probably the best of. I think both of those things are the best of probably anybody we're going to talk about. And I just thought like there
- [45:47]
A
it's
- [45:48]
C
like a Julian saying versus like Garch Manning kind of conversation right now, I think in this particular spot. And I just don't like Arch improved over the course of the season. Yes. But like as I said the other day, like his best game was against Mississippi State and like that doesn't impress me all that much. And like Julian saying was not pressed for much of last season and then sort of when he finally was. I don't, I don't think he responded well to that. So, so he's got similar questions to answer. But I thought like kind of the high end flashes from him last year are worth banking on and I, I do kind of think he's going to take another step this season.
- [46:22]
B
How much more do you think he will improve where he has an offense? Coordinators actually call plays before this year.
- [46:29]
C
Yeah, I think it'll help him a lot. I like, I do think they're. Ohio State's rushing attack needs to be better. I think like it's like what did Kurt Signetti say about Josh Hoover? Right. Like a quarterback's best friend or good run game and a good defense. Ohio State had one of those last year. They had a good defense. It didn't have a good run game. I, I don't know, I don't know that Julian is a quarterback. Frankly, I don't know that any of these quarterbacks, maybe some of them are like, Julian is a quarterback who is like, you got me. You don't need anything else kind of. Kind of guy. So, like, he does need help. I think he does need maybe the right environment to really max out. So whether that's Arthur Smith or any other experienced play caller coming in and having a better rhythm with that, having better game plans, getting a better run game, building off of ideas and plays, I think in a more kind of sensible way than Ohio State was at times last year. Yeah, I think all that will help him this season.
- [47:24]
A
And it is interesting. Like, again, as Matt, as you've pointed out, somebody like Dante Moore, he had a better OC last year than he will this year because Will Stein was so good. He got a head coaching job, Julian saying, will have a better OC this year than he did last year. So it's like that, you know, it's like, well, Dante Moore, wasn't that when he had Will Stein? What's he going to be without Will Stein? But Julian saying, was this with a play caller who'd never done it, now he has a former NFL head coach. Like, what might that mean? Right. And you talked about how important Den Brock is to CJ Car, like, all this stuff matters. And again, when you're trying to draft sort of in a vacuum, it can be hard. But there are things around Julian saying that would maybe think he'll ascend. Right. But then Dante Moore has to overcome an oc but also his receivers might be healthy anyway. It's hard. Matt, fourth pick to you.
- [48:16]
B
I'll go Arch. He's still on the board. I'll take him. What?
- [48:19]
A
Is that where we are with Arch banding? Arch Manning is a reluctant sigh. I guess I'll take Arch Manning. Is that where we are?
- [48:29]
B
It's one of the things where, like, I wasn't gonna pick him. Like, wait, he's still there. I gotta pick him. Like, I think if most people around the country did this draft, they would take him one without thinking about it. And I'm not saying that's the right pick, but I will take. You're giving me a quarterback roster with CJ Carr and Arch Manning on it? Yeah.
- [48:47]
A
Well. So, Bill, do you agree with that, that if we add. If we had other people on this show, they'd be taking Arch Manning number one overall? Do you think he is the consensus number one quarterback in the country going
- [49:00]
B
into this Year he is, whether we like it or not. I mean, you look at the draft talk, it's just like, oh, he's gonna be one, it'll be two. I'm not saying that's right, but that's the way he's being talked about.
- [49:09]
C
I don't know if he'd be one. If you. If you pulled only college football, people probably, but I'm not sure.
- [49:20]
A
What would Greg McElroy say? I don't know what Greg McElroy is saying on a show, but, like, part. Right. I mean, it's. There is. Julian's right. Julian saying had a bunch of good games and then two games at the end that weren't quite as good and affects how people are viewing him right now. Arch had a slow start, got better at the end of the year. But as you said, Bill, it's like he had a great game against Mississippi State. Like, some of these guys, they're veterans, but they've put out good and bad. Dante Moore, all right, against the best teams, he didn't play well. So we do have guys at the top of this list that have shown they can do it, but they didn't do it every single game. And so then. Are you doing more on, like, potential upside? Are you doing more on, like. Man, I've seen it and there were times it didn't look good.
- [50:00]
C
Yeah, I mean, I think in part, like, I think part of this exercise is, like, I tend to come at this for, like, you know, I like, you know, I pulled a bunch of stats and I tried to, like, put together a board. I think you can kind of, like, go off vibes, too. And he can go off of. Everything about this guy. Tells me he's supposed to be a superstar and he's only got one year of starting under his belt. I absolutely. I'm believing that he can get to that next year. Like, I get all that. I think he could be. I think, like, I think this conversation that we're having could end up sounding very silly, like, a couple months from now when it's like, Arch Manning is definitely the best quarterback in college football. Why did any. Why did anyone, like, not believe that at the time? But there is a there. I think there are, like, in my opinion, like, too strong of assumptions, I think, being made about him based off how he played last year. Because it wasn't like, like, yes, Texas's receivers ended up not being as good as everyone thought they were going to be, but he's supposed to be an elevator. He's not supposed to be the guy who's along for the ride and like needs really good skill around him to be successful and frank. Like you can be a decent college quarterback and your team can win if you're not an elevator. But he's supposed to be. So why wasn't he last year? Why do you believe so strongly that he's definitely going to be next year? I, like that's, that's where, that's where I get hung up on Arch.
- [51:23]
B
I go back to what I say at the beginning when you said they're going to be experienced quarterbacks who don't do as well or we're going to take steps backs. There are certainly going to be experienced quarterbacks who take steps forward. And again, I'm talking about this through the prism of a second round pick in this draft, but I'm perfectly comfortable taking that risk right now. It does. Well, I didn't take them one overall, but I wouldn't be surprised if like Bill said, we look back at this a year from now and think, well, that was the obvious choice. Why didn't anyone do it?
- [51:51]
A
Do you feel like, Matt, that Texas Ohio State Week 2 Julian sand vs Arch Manning, the third and fourth picks in this draft, that like this it will emerge from that game with a little bit of a handle on maybe the shape of the college football season and exactly what Arch and Julian are and ardent that I, I'm intrigued by this matchup because a year ago they're both so new right. That Arch didn't play well against Matt Patricia defensive high State kind of protected Julian sand and won a 147 game. But now like they've done it and I've been sort of espousing the idea of like is this is Ohio State, Texas just going to come down to which quarterback goes and wins this thing. And that's simplistic. But also on one hand, I think both teams should probably be expecting their quarterbacks to do that in a matchup like this when they're in year two as starters.
- [52:42]
B
Yeah, I mean it felt like a slow burn for Julian Sam last year as far as like the national conversation slash Heisman discussion. Right. I feel like maybe the Wisconsin game where I was like, wait, this guy's actually really good. I know we kind of forgot about him middle of March Madness back in the early part of the season. But with this one certainly, and especially with these schedules that both play, Ohio State's got a really tough schedule. Texas is going to be playing John Mateer. They're going to be playing trade Eye Chambers. I think on the road I could be wrong, but that's gonna be another marquee quarterback matchup for Arch Manning. But I certainly think you know, the same way we all crown John Mateer because he beat Michigan last year. Same thing, week two, prime time espn. The winner of this is going to have hype out of control. The only thing keeping it from being sane would be if he throws a game. Wing touchdown pass through Jeremiah Smith and therefore we divert all of our attention to Jeremiah Smith. But as far as the quarterbacks are concerned, I certainly think the winner of this is going to have the inside narrative track for whatever that is worth. Like September Heisman. I have a hard time seeing it not going to one of those two people.
- [53:46]
A
Bill, you rewatched Ohio State Texas from last year. What. What'd you get from watching Arch and Sand in that game?
- [53:55]
C
One of them was calm and in control and one of them wasn't. And like Arch is on the road. Arch was facing a. They were both facing good defenses. But I. Arch was facing a better defense, perhaps like a substantially better defense and one that was probably a little more sophisticated than the one that Julian saying was facing. And obviously Arch didn't have Jeremiah Smith or, or Cornell Tate. But yeah, I thought there was like Julian Saying sort of like looked like he had played before and Arch kind of didn't. Even though Arch had can I like but like I know the spirit of this exercise is just not like not ranking these quarterbacks based off of like any sort of statistical output or any kind of whatever metric you'd care to pull out. But can I give you a small sampling of power four quarterbacks who had a better EPA per touch than Arch Manning last year?
- [54:50]
A
Sure.
- [54:52]
C
Bryce Underwood, Connor Wegman, Josh Hoover, Chandler Morris, Tommy Castellanos, Bear Backmire, Luke Altmeyer, Baron Morton, Marcel Reed. Keep going. And like he wasn't good last year.
- [55:16]
A
Yeah. Way to go, Matt, you idiot. Way to take Arch Manning fourth of
- [55:24]
B
this 55 minute mark on May 14th. We'll come back to this again. I'm a GM right now.
- [55:31]
C
He won't be good. Doesn't mean he won't be good this year.
- [55:33]
B
That's what I'm saying. This is a second round pick. I'm not staking my. My reputation stake to C.J. carr right now. Now a lot more than is Archmanic.
- [55:39]
C
Yeah.
- [55:40]
A
Where is Tommy Castellanos? I don't know. I don't know what happened to him. Was he done with his eligibility? I guess so.
- [55:46]
B
You know, he talks Smack Alabama. And then he beat him.
- [55:48]
A
So I love that guy. All right, so, Bill, you used the word elevator. I'm gonna take a guy who I think was a thousand percent an elevator last year and I thought played a game in the playoff. We watched it together. We were like, that's what this is supposed to look like. Give me that guy. And are we remiss in that Trinidad Chambliss lasted to the fifth pick. Should he have gone higher here because he dragged Ole Miss into the playoff and then like single handedly beat Georgia and we're talking about guys like. Well, I don't know about Dante Moore in big games. Well, CJ Carr was tipping his pitches while Julian sand didn't play as well at the end of the year where Arch sucked the whole year and Trinidad Chambliss went fifth. What's wrong with us? Am I a genius?
- [56:31]
C
No, I think it's. Yeah, I. My hesitation on taking Julian saying in like on third was not because of Arch, it was because of Chambliss.
- [56:41]
A
Okay. Is this too low, Matt?
- [56:46]
B
No, he. If I didn't go like that, that's who I was. It was one of those two. Now, as far as projecting how good of a year they'll have, I do worry a little bit about him without Charlie Weiss Jr.
- [56:56]
C
There.
- [56:57]
B
I think John David Baker is the OC now. And you know, for. For Lane Kiffin, who's been in the news a lot lately, as has his own. As his. Yeah. For being a champion of civil rights. The guys. My opinion, much better head coach and Pete Golding will be. Not to take away from what Chambla said last year, particularly in the playoff without Kiffin. But I do think Charlie Weiss Jr. Is a very underrated OC. He was the one calling most of the plays there, not Lane Kiffin. And I just think Pete Golding with a new offensive coordinator, I don't know. He's not gonna be sneaking up on anyone this year either. Right. Like, I just
- [57:41]
C
counterpoints on the new. On the new Ole Miss OC is that he made Kate and Hauser good enough to come back to the power four.
- [57:52]
B
I would also say, like, I was a little like, don't get me wrong, I give a whole nother rant about eligibility. But I was a little surprised like Trigad Chambers was as gung ho about getting the extra year of eligibility because I think he probably would have been the second quarterback drafted in this year's draft. And I don't think that'll be the case next year.
- [58:11]
A
So so there's like the. What's going to happen at Ole Miss? But let me, let me ask you this. The four quarterbacks taken ahead of Trinidad Chambliss play for Notre Dame, Oregon, Ohio State and Texas. Bill, if Trinidad Chambliss had transferred to any of those four schools to be the starting quarterback, what would people be thinking about that? Would that team maybe be the odds on favorite to win the national championship if Trinidad Chambliss was their quarterback? Or is that a misread that. No, you'd rather have C.J. carr, Arch Manning or Julian Tan or Dante Moore?
- [58:43]
C
No, I think they, I think they probably would be because Trinidad Chambers is the kind of quarterback to get you excited, right? Like, he's, he is. I think he's like the best creator. Creator at quarterback in the country. Right. So throw that guy on any of those teams with the weapons that he would have around him in any of those places, and I think everybody would be saying that team's going to win the national title.
- [59:02]
B
Okay, I, I would take him over Dante Moore and you got both of them. But like, that's why I was surprised. When we talk about elevator, I'm not sure Dante Moore's elevator. And I do know that Trinidad Chambers is.
- [59:12]
A
Yeah. All right. Pick six. Bill to you,
- [59:17]
C
huh? Okay.
- [59:20]
A
By the way, is this a top five? This was my top five on my list. Is this a consensus top five or no.
- [59:27]
C
Would you.
- [59:27]
A
Could you guys had DANTE More like 11th. And you think I made a terrible pick?
- [59:30]
C
No, no, I think this is the top. I think this is the top five.
- [59:33]
B
Probably.
- [59:34]
A
Like, like as much as, like, I feel like there's. Hey, there's a lot of great guys and I feel like there's 25 or 30 guys who could go in this top 15. I, I think this might be a somewhat uniform top five and how college football people are viewing the QBs right now. So.
- [59:50]
B
Okay, probably I'd throw one more in there. I want to see if Bill takes them now, but.
- [59:55]
A
Okay,
- [59:57]
C
I'm gonna take Jada Mayava.
- [59:59]
B
Oh, okay. Now,
- [60:03]
C
I'm not picking Link if it's quarterback because, well, I guess there are questions, right? Like he's losing. He's losing Makai Lemon and who's the other receiver? Jacoby Lane. Is that his name?
- [60:14]
A
Yeah.
- [60:16]
C
So, like the weapons around him are changing. He's. But it's an incredibly quarterback friendly system as, as everyone knows. I think he's got a cut down on the turnovers or like the turnover worthy plays. And if he does, he's like pretty legit, I think as a passer. Another guy who's really good at avoiding sacks, which I like, I value pretty highly among quarterback traits. Pretty experienced too, by, by this point. So I, I don't, I don't think he's. I think he's very much like on a different tier than the five guys we have already discussed. But when I think about that next tier and who I'd most like to have, like, it's like kind of clearly my Ava for me, I guess I, I don't know, maybe that's a little too strong, but I just think there's a lot going on there and I thought he showed a lot of growth last year and the fact that he did makes me think maybe he's in store for even another jump this year despite losing some of those weapons around him. So I don't know. I feel pretty good about what he's going to be this year.
- [61:18]
B
All three of Lincoln Riley's quarterbacks he's coached for three years won the Heisman. Now Caleb did in his second year, but Baker, Kyler and Caleb. So I like it from that standpoint. Although that's not who I, I don't know if it's my turn or not, but. Well, I'd be. I know it's my turn. I was my turn to pick, but it's not who I would pick. It who I would have picked if
- [61:39]
A
I had to make a Heisman pick today. I think it might be him. Like I'm in on. I'm in on like a, a next level jump. Like USA is a tough schedule, but it might be him. Matt, it is your pick.
- [61:52]
B
Go ahead, Josh. Over.
- [61:55]
A
Okay.
- [61:55]
B
Oh yeah.
- [61:56]
C
I am not there at all with him.
- [61:58]
A
Transfer from TCU now at Indiana.
- [62:01]
B
I'm trusting the leg, the, the experience and I am trusting the system. And maybe that's blind, but he's more accomplished at this point right now than Fernando Mendoza was a year ago. And eventually Kirk said that he will have a bad evaluation on someone because I think he's at 100 right now in two years, Indiana, which is just un freaking believable. But I, I will put my money with the guy who's knocked out of the park with every single town evaluation he's made Power four level. And I'll go Josh Hoover.
- [62:32]
C
What if he's a Signetti pick and not a Josh Hoover pick? That's why.
- [62:40]
A
What if he's somewhere between Fernando Mendoza
- [62:42]
B
and Curtis Rourke, Kurt Signetti's first third round pick. I mean what was Rourke? He was all Big Ten, right? Like 13, probably. But he was good.
- [62:50]
C
He was the second best quarterback in the Big Ten. Yeah. I mean, at some points, like the way. Statistically the best, I think. But the.
- [62:57]
B
The schedule wasn't what it was last year. But. And look, Mendoza had those, like, elevator characteristics that we probably were unaware of until he got there. But, like, you watch that guy literally break his back in half, stretching for an extra yard, and it's like, yeah, no, this guy's a killer. I don't know. I don't cast judgment. I don't know enough about Josh Hoover to know whether he's that way or not. I do know that Kirk Signetti went in, wanted this guy, and got him immediately in the middle of the championship chase. And. And again, maybe it's blind faith by me right now, but I'll roll with the guy who keeps proving everyone else wrong.
- [63:30]
A
Yeah, I. 31 career starts. That's. That's. That's the most of, like, for any quarterback who's going to play on a team that really is, like, a national title contender. Unless you want to throw Rocco back in there with 36 career starts at Penn State. It's hard, Bill, because, like, you're saying that's a Signetti pick, but Matt's saying, like, well, if. If he's good enough for Kurt Signetti, he's good enough for me.
- [63:53]
C
Sure.
- [63:54]
A
And I don't like his too.
- [63:56]
B
Sorry. God, yeah, for sure.
- [63:58]
A
And it's like. But to watch him at TCU as a starter, like, is that. If you would have watched Fernando Mendoza at Cal as a starter, would you have seen what was coming? Or is it like, well, there's a little bit there. And now when Signetti gets him and puts him in this system and with these players and this coaching, this is going to happen. As. As Matt's saying, it's like, well, if Hoover was kind of better at TCU than Mendoza was at Cal, then, like, why not?
- [64:23]
C
I don't know that Hoover was better at TCU than Mendoza was a cow. I would like to have seen what Mendoza might have done at TCU and had he not had to play with everything that comes with playing at Cal. I don't know. Like, I. I was like, I. I had. I had actually just, like, watched a little bit of Fernando Mendoza, like, casually before he went to Indiana. So, like, I liked him. I have not watched a ton of Josh Hoover, so, like, my opinion of him is largely statistically based. And he throws the ball to the other team. Too much so like they can. You can coach that out of him. He's gonna have good receivers. It's a good scheme. I think he'll be good, but I don't. This feels a little high. I think I, I think that staff has probably earned the benefit. Not probably. They've earned the benefit of the doubt. So I get it. I don't think it's like entirely off base. It wouldn't have been my, my next pick. But I understand why Matt or anybody else would think that Josh Hoover is in position to make a pretty large leap this year based off of that staff's quarterback success. Which by the way is not only at Indiana. They're like three starters previous to Indiana. I think we're all conference players of the year as well. So they know how to get quarterbacks right? For sure.
- [65:34]
B
I'll say Nick Marsh, Charlie Becker and blanket his name. He was at Alabama, then Tulane. Good. Good group of receivers to start with.
- [65:46]
A
I'll take Lane Kiffin's quarterback. I'll take Sam Levitt at lsu. The Arizona State transfer led Arizona State to the playoff two years ago. Was pretty good and I got hurt last year. Scooty, right, can move around a little bit. Has shown, I think that he can win at a high level. I don't want to pick a Lane Kiffin player, but I think, I mean
- [66:08]
C
he's gonna his skill set in that offense. It would, I think it would take a lot for him as long as he's healthy. It would take a lot for him to not be pretty damn good.
- [66:17]
B
Yeah. Anyone here? Watch your friends and neighbors.
- [66:20]
A
Yeah.
- [66:21]
B
Sam Lovett, John Ham's love interest slash backstabbing. That's her name. Her character name. Olivia Munn's character.
- [66:31]
A
Oh, that for real.
- [66:32]
C
That's her name.
- [66:33]
A
Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. Okay. She transferred in. Okay. Yeah. Three time transfer.
- [66:39]
B
Olivia Munn, she's a multiple time transfer in that show.
- [66:42]
A
Yeah, she transferred to John Mulaney. Okay, so like you say is like Sam Lovett a top 10 quarterback. You think Matt? Sort of consensus nationally.
- [66:53]
B
Yeah, I mean I think he's closer to 10 than he is the one, but yes.
- [66:57]
A
Yeah. Okay. Bill, who's your pick?
- [67:01]
C
Drew Mestemaker.
- [67:03]
B
Oh, okay. I love that one.
- [67:06]
A
Oklahoma State, transferred from North Texas with his coach Eric Morris. Would he qualify as an out of nowhere guy or not really.
- [67:16]
C
No, I think he's got some but like he's giving us some like draft buzz already. It'll be interesting to see what all translates. Right. They're basically taken. I think they're taking like six or seven North Texas offensive players and just dropping them in Stillwater and seeing what happens. Including the running back Caleb Hawkins, who's a freshman last year and very good. So it, it might not all translate, but I, I kind of think it will. It's got good. He's got like arm and accuracy. Like I would put him up there with saying in, in like among this group. Maybe like those two at the top. Not like super athletic, but can get himself out of trouble sometimes, I think so. I'm very curious to see what all this looks like at the power four level at a program like Oklahoma State that is desperate to like win more than four games. But I also think there's like, like a ton of upward mobility in that conference in the Big 12 as well. So it wouldn't surprise me if Oklahoma State is like one of those quick turnaround teams this year and best of makers leading him there.
- [68:18]
B
He's got, I think four years of eligibility left, three years of eligibility left, and Eric Morris coach three. Cam Ward, in addition to some other guys. Like, I, I love that pick. I, I think everything you just outlined, Bill, like, not saying they're going to be a dark horse, win 10 games this year, but if there's going to be a team like that, it's going to be in the Big 12 and it's going to be someone who can throw the ball well. And I have no doubt that they'll be able to do that.
- [68:39]
A
Kurt Signetti can take JMU guys and win in Indiana. Can an Eric Morris take North Texas guys and win Oklahoma State? I don't know. I mean, you can't apply the Signetti principle to everybody. But I'm on the lookout for it. If you go somewhere and you take a bunch of your good players and then smush them together at the new place.
- [68:58]
C
The problem, the problem is there was nothing to smush them with. Like, Indiana actually had some decent players.
- [69:02]
B
Well, the good thing though is like, whether they win four games or eight games, I guarantee he's going to put up crazy numbers. That offense.
- [69:10]
C
Right? Yeah.
- [69:11]
A
Yeah. Okay. Pick ten to Matt between two guys right now.
- [69:18]
B
And I will go with Darian Mensah.
- [69:21]
A
Okay. I have to get over it. I'm just like a little turned off by like the way it happened. Right. As you were saying, like, Miami has no quarterback. Oh. All of a sudden. And I'm like. But like, that's the way of the world. Right. They shouldn't affect, affect a quarterback evaluation
- [69:38]
B
I had dinner either that night or the night after, sometime during that Miami weekend. And there were a lot of ACC people at this dinner. And I said, how thrilled are you guys to finally have your conference on this stage? And to a man, they're all like, to hell with Miami. We want nothing to do with them the way they've been poaching our players and going about their business like we have no patience for that. And I get it from a competitive standpoint, but it sounds a lot like what Big Ten coaches said about Urban Meyer when he got to Ohio State and say, you want about Urban, he single handedly elevated that conference and put it on the path to where it is now. So as a neutral observer, I'm fine with it.
- [70:14]
C
Interesting.
- [70:15]
A
So do you think that eventually will elevate the ACC or are they just going to be like, screw Miami, they're not really one of us, or will they follow, follow along?
- [70:25]
B
It's not like Clemson, Florida State are bad because they're not trying. Right? Right. They're bad because they've had MIS evaluations and just haven't played good football. I just think that league in particular, which was the first to really go toward that success initiative where not only did Miami just make the national championship game, they got to keep all $20 million for themselves and not share it with the conference. And when you're in a conference that is so far behind the other two financially, that goes a long way. And I think that's a tremendous motivator for the dabble Sweeneys of the world to stop complaining about what Ohio State and Notre Dame have and to just win a lot of football games and therefore collect that money for himself. So I think a rising tide elevates all ships, I think. You know, does that mean Syracuse and Boston College are going to get good overnight? No, but I think it. Absolutely. I mean, that was a running joke, right? Like Florida State and Clemson sued the ACC so that Miami can actually take advantage of all this and then win like it's on Clemson, Florida State and whomever else to figure out how to win. They've both done it before. I'm sure they can do it again. But I do think the incentive is there to win right now in a way that it wasn't before.
- [71:34]
A
Okay,
- [71:37]
C
I know who you're picking.
- [71:39]
A
Do you know who I'm picking?
- [71:41]
C
Yeah, put your hat on.
- [71:42]
B
I know who you're not picking.
- [71:45]
A
So I can't. I can't pick an SEC quarterback. I can't pick an sec.
- [71:49]
C
I already have two well, don't pick my guy. You better not pick my guy.
- [71:52]
A
I think I'm gonna pick your guy. He's not next on my list.
- [71:55]
B
I hope it's not my guy. Whoever this is. I don't know who you're talking about, but I got one guy like, I really want.
- [72:00]
A
Bill. If I say that, you have to pronounce his name.
- [72:04]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [72:06]
A
Jaren Kiawe Saga Pulatelli from Cal. It's not who I had next. I actually had him. I did like a quick list. I had him like 17th, but like his upside is so upside. And, and I think if you're looking for like again, off the radar who winds up in New York kind of guy because like, you watch him and it pops and he puts up some 300 yard passing games and maybe Cal's better than, than people think. His last two games last year, he threw for 330 and 337. Now one of them was in a loss to Hawaii in the Hawaii Bowl. So it's like, okay, well congratulations on like losing to Hawaii and that getting you to New York. But like there, that was as a true freshman last year. There's a ton of traits in here. If I'm drafting guys who started as true freshmen last year, should I take him over Bryce Underwood or Bear Bachmeyer at BYU or Malik Washington at Maryland? Maybe not, but I can't help myself, Bill, so I'm gonna take him.
- [73:14]
C
I think what he was able to do last year with like basically nothing around him was, was pretty impressive as a true freshman. And I'm actually shocked he's still at Cal. Shout out to Tosh Lupoi. I guess maybe he brought some of that Nike money with him to Cal from Oregon to help keep, to help keep him there. And I, I don't know, I didn't like go and look and see what exactly California has added via the transfer portal this year, but this dude can sling it. Like, I, he's, he's, yeah, he's, he's, he's quite fun to watch. And I, I just think like based off how he played last year as a true freshman, with what his supporting cast was like, I thought he was like by far the most impressive freshman quarterback. So I would have taken him over the guys you mentioned and he would have been my next pick as well.
- [74:02]
A
Okay, then go ahead and make Your
- [74:04]
C
pick number 12 Overall, Bill Gunner Stockton.
- [74:07]
B
Okay.
- [74:10]
A
He's a baller, man.
- [74:11]
C
He is a baller. Right? Their offense stinks. But that's not his fault, Matt.
- [74:19]
A
I Was at that, that playoff game two years ago with Georgia and Notre Dame when, when Stockton had to start and like trying to go and talk to Georgia players about him and like everything it's like hey Gunner, Stockton has
- [74:31]
C
play what you got.
- [74:31]
A
Nobody was just like that guy, just a great guy. And I was like is not good. Like they're just talking about his personality the whole time. They're not talking about how he plays quarterback but he is he like he's a baller and he is lit. He's the only time I put on this hat non ironically where that come from Gunner too far away.
- [74:54]
B
The Rotary Club down there.
- [74:56]
A
They don't want me there. I wouldn't get out of there alive. I spoke that Rotary Club but like I dislike everything about Georgia football starting with Kirby. Smart first and foremost and the way he runs his program. But Gunner Stockton's a baller. I think it's undeniable.
- [75:13]
B
He's a gritty guy. He's a good fourth round pick. I mean yeah, look, Georgia's the only program, Michigan to a lesser extent under Harbaugh but Georgia plays such great defense that they've won big by getting quarterbacks who are gritty and don't turn the ball over. I mean they won national title sets, two national titles with Stetson Bennett as their quarterback. And they've come pretty darn close with Gunner Stockton the last two years. Like I think it's a very, very safe fourth round pick that you will not regret. I would not put them anywhere higher than the fourth round of the strap.
- [75:46]
A
I think you can win with him, Bill. I think you can win with him.
- [75:49]
C
I think, I think. Well, I think he makes winning plays right Like I think we were just talking about Haynes King right from like he's like yes, throw it a little better. Yeah, yeah but he can throw it a little better than those guys. I think, I don't think he's not a great thrower but I think he's. I think it's like an above replacement level thrower. But then he'll also stick his face into a deli slicer if it means he's got to score a touchdown for you.
- [76:14]
B
For him either. Ever.
- [76:16]
C
Yeah, they don't have, they don't have great receivers and like they throw the ball sideways a lot. Like they don't like I, I wonder what it might look like if they were to open up their offense a little bit and maybe it's just like well Gunner Stockton can't handle that and that's the answer. But I, I think there's some substance there and I, I wonder if Georgia has like tapped into all of what's possible with him as their quarterback.
- [76:38]
B
I wonder that too.
- [76:39]
A
He single handedly won some games for them last year to keep them as a playoff team. Like, I don't know that they deserve to be that. And he like dragged them into the playoff. All right, pick 13, your last pick. Matt, to you.
- [76:53]
B
He's still there, so I'll take him. Demon Williams Jr. That's a good pick.
- [76:57]
A
Are we over all that too? He tried to leave his team, said, we'll sue you. He's back. He lost Denzel Boston and Jonah Coleman, but like, all is forgiven. He's going to be good.
- [77:07]
B
I think he probably had and maybe still has some making up to do locally. I'm not privy to the, the complete dynamic there, but I know a lot of people were pissed off and frustrated by all of it. But he's back. I mean, Lane Kiffin wanted him and was willing to go those lengths to get him for a reason. I think he's a dynamic difference maker at that position. I think the schedule, at least pre November, is soft enough where he can put up some big numbers. And I trust Jed Fish when it comes to quarterback play.
- [77:36]
A
I think that's fair. And I, and I will say this and this happens all the time, and I know that I'm guilty of it. I think a lot of people, people are of it. I probably would have taken Damon Williams higher a year ago in a draft than I would than I am now because, like, when you. There's so much potential. He played well in the bowl game at the end of last year and there's a mystery and man, he can really move around. And then, and then he was good last year, but like now I've seen it. So I want to take jks, right? So like there's like that, that part of it. But Bill, like, I Demond Williams is a good player, right? But I think my view is slightly affected by, by sort of the off season. Like, is he leaving? Is he not? Like, what does that mean? And even though it's all big business, we understand that's how it works. It was a little clunky and I just, I'm not saying it changed my view of him, but I'm just like, not. I'm a little less likely to like, say, yeah, that's, I'm gonna take that guy.
- [78:27]
C
I don't know. Like, I think that's, that's fair. Like, I try not to get too caught up in like the off season drama of it. I just don't know. Like, is he, is he actually gonna go win you a big game? Right. Like, I, I, I thought he looked like, like physically, physically small obviously when against Ohio State, but then just like also kind of like didn't meet the moment against Ohio State and, and maybe that's putting too much on like a one game sample size and it was early last season as well. But I kind of thought he was in a position to make a big leap last year and I'm not sure that he made it. So like I like him. I certainly think he's worth taking if you're getting to the back end of a draft like this and, and taking a flyer on him. But I don't, I think he was a little underwhelming compared to expectations last season. At least my, my expectations.
- [79:17]
A
Yeah. Okay. I'll take another Big Ten quarterback. He is the next guy on my list. I'll take Rocco. Back to Penny. Three year starter at Iowa State. I thought he was underrated the whole time at Iowa State. He was good. He had a really good year two years ago when he had two awesome receivers. They lost the receivers. The Iowa State receivers last year were very mid and everything kind of, it didn't hit at the same level. It's, it's not like Penn State has been a haven for great receivers. The But I think just generally him sort of stepping up just the general level of talent around him from what he had at Iowa State to what you have at a place like Penn State. Again, a little bit of the signetti smush of you bring like your best Iowa State guys. You smush them together with what you've got left at Penn State. They have an easy schedule, they have an opportunity. I do think they're a reasonable playoff pick. But I think he's like a really good college quarterback and again he's not going to wind up as the first pick in the draft like Fernando Mendoza. But I, if we're looking for guys who kind of come from off the radar and step up and play really well and matter in college football. As a transfer, one year transfer quarterback, I think he has a chance to sort of be in that conversation among the most impactful guys this year. So I had him up like the two guys and it's so different than jks, right. But those were like two guys I sort of wanted to take at the bottom of this draft. One, a young guy, flyer. He has 36 career starts. We're Talking about all this experience, he's the most experienced. He's the most experienced quarterback in college football in the power four. And I just think he has to be a chance to be the best version of himself at Penn State with Matt Campbell. And like, it's familiar, but it's unfit. Like, I just think there's. There's enough things around it, right? It's the same coaching staff, but it's just a general step up in everything else. And the schedule's easy. I think it'll be good.
- [81:24]
C
Yeah, the schedule helps. Like, if they were staring down a Big Ten gauntlet, I don't think it'd be very high on his prospects this year because I think there's a pretty large. There could be a pretty large jump in week to week quality of defense that he'd be facing. But the way the schedule broke, that's just kind of not the case. So I could see. I really thought you were going to say Bryce Underwood when you said Big Ten quarterback.
- [81:45]
B
Oh, I thought.
- [81:46]
C
I think he deserves it.
- [81:47]
B
Another Big Ten guy. I'm curious if Bill takes him.
- [81:50]
A
Well, do you guys not think, do you not think he deserves to be in a top 15 draft? Rocco Becket?
- [81:58]
B
I think he does okay.
- [82:00]
C
I think he's like, right on, right on the. Right on the line.
- [82:03]
A
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean, he, you know, Jaden Higgins and Jalen Noel were awesome, but like, he was pretty stinking good with those guys. So if we get closer to a version of that, I, I think they have a chance to really do it. All right, Bill, so we've got some interesting picks here, Bill. For, for the last pick in the draft of 15.
- [82:19]
C
I'm gonna take Byron Brown.
- [82:21]
A
Okay. Auburn had him on my list.
- [82:25]
C
He's got like a million rushing and passing yards combined in his four years at South. Like, I just think, like, he's an incredibly productive quarterback. Like, true dual threat. I understand. Like, he's not the most polished passer in the world and like, his throwing mechanics are kind of funky and I don't actually think he'll ever be an NFL quarterback. But that's not the conversation we're having. We're talking about college football and he's uber productive and he's going to play for Alex Golish in the sec and he knows the system. And I just, like, I think most, if not all of it's going to translate there. Like, I, I think maybe he could be the second best quarterback in the sec. Maybe even the best of Arch isn't very good or Trambliss.
- [83:10]
A
Okay. And this is he and mess control
- [83:13]
C
in the SEC and just kind of like run stuff. Why can't Byron Brown.
- [83:19]
A
I. I think the answer is he
- [83:20]
B
can right in this draft. Back to back bill picks of QB transfers with their OCs or head coaches.
- [83:29]
A
I mean it. It's right. And Mr. Maker and Brown are two fascinating sort of not test cases but just like you know things here of. Of. I think we figured that out Bill. In college football these days it's like there are guys who are playing in the G6 or or even like in the FCS who like if you give them a shot at a power conference team and you give them good coaching and put some good players around them, they can do it. And I think best Maker and. And Byron Brown like both have a really good chance to just do it
- [83:58]
C
and I think like just kind of like sampling what's who is still available to be drafted in terms of skill set. Like give me Byron Brown over probably all of them. Maybe Devin Dampier is similar otherwise like I don't know. I don't love anybody who's potentially left and this guy's got a lot of production under his belt already.
- [84:25]
A
Yeah, I think that's fair. Let me run through the list and we can talk about guys that didn't get picked. Our draft of the 15 like the best who we think the most impactful best power conference quarterbacks will be in 2020 6. Matt took Notre Dame, CJ Carr number 1. I took Dante Moore of Oregon number 2. Bill took Julian sand at Ohio State number 3. Matt took Arch Manning of Texas number 4. I took Trinidad Chambliss of Ole Miss number 5. Bill took USC's Jade Maeve a 6. Matt took Josh Hoover of Indiana 7. I took Sam Levitt of LSU 8. Bill took Drew Bestemaker of Oklahoma State 9. Matt took Darian Mensa of Miami at 10. I took Jaron Kawaii Sanga Politele of Cal at 11. Bill took Gunner Stockton of Georgia at 12. Matt took Washington's Demond Williams Jr. At 13. I took Rocco Beckt of Penn State at 14 and Bill took Byron Brown of Auburn at 15. I wrote down 17 names and we drafted the 15 came from the 17 names that I wrote down. The two that I had written down that didn't get picked. Nico IO Maliava at UCLA and John Matier at Oklahoma. Matt, who else did you think about?
- [85:37]
B
Those were the two. Literally I was just gonna say like the two best who did not get drafted who were on my list not to cast aspersions against any of your other picks but I, I had both those two guys ahead of Brown backed not maybe not back but over jks. Nico will be interesting. He's one of those guys I think we've all completely forgotten about and he's got a really good coaching staff around him this year. I don't know if that means he's gonna yeah Heisman candidate or be even what he was at Tennessee but again you talk about elevators different difference makers. I mean you could argue he single handedly into James Franklin's tenure last year Penn State could not stop. He had his moments last year and he was on a roster that wasn't that good and John Mateer is another one where I think we probably overcorrected the premature hype last year and I just completely forgot about this guy who took his team to a 10 and two record into the playoff and again how much did the injury affect him? I'm not sure we'll ever know but he was a completely different player when he came back from injury and he came back a lot sooner than what the initial diagnosis was. So I'm cautiously optimistic about the kind of year he can have.
- [86:46]
A
I'm okay over correcting because Greg McElroy had John Matiere second on his list going into last year until had him third so if he's 16th for us and we overcorrected so be it. Bill, anybody else you had in mind?
- [86:59]
C
No, I had Nico down I had Devin Dampier who I mentioned and then like I I wasn't going to pick them because I thought it made just made the most sense to like you know pick guys we've actually seen play Keelan Russell and at Alabama and actually Kenny Minchie I think well you're the one that's on the Kentucky train but Kenny Minchi and Will Stein's offense seems like it could be fun.
- [87:26]
B
I would add Lincoln Keen Hollis and Jeff Brown's offense in that state. Two guys who almost won starting jobs last year. They're now in the same state with really good play callers. I'm very excited to see what both can do.
- [87:37]
A
I did I so I don't know we've talked about one of them. Maybe Fanduel did like the odds to make the playoff bets are out now. Not just national championship odds. Five bucks Kentucky playoff team 20 to one get on.
- [87:54]
C
That's a, that's a big bet. That's two units. That's two units.
- [87:57]
A
I know that's like two and a half units that's like, that's. I'd like clear that with my wife and my accountant to bet five bucks on Kentucky. So Bryce Underwood, not selected, not really discussed. Matt, like is, should he be in a conversation as a second year player, second year starter at Michigan, among the top 15 quarterbacks in the Power Four
- [88:21]
B
should probably be in the conversation. You talk about a guy with mystery. Like talent's obviously there, right? And, and for all the, the inexact science that is quarterback evaluation, you get on the list of 24, seven arrivals over the years, the number one ranked quarterback and every recruiting class ends up being really good. Like there, there are not misses when they're the number one guy. And so I reason to believe he'll eventually be a really good player. But I mean what we saw on the field and what we learned about off the field after the fact with the Strom Moore era at Michigan, and it's almost like, God bless anyone who survived that, right? Like, he didn't really get asked to do a whole lot when he did against Northwestern. He almost threw away the game with a couple late picks. The talent is there, the talent is obvious. It'll be nice to see him and what presumably is an adult offense now and see what he's able to do. I, you know, it's interesting because he's a local guy, right? And Mishkid, at least at the time, went kind of out outside their comfort zone as far as like what they did to get him as far as the nil deals and what was the guy's name, the rich guy? Larry Ellison's girlfriend getting involved and whatnot. It just felt, it feels like there's almost too much invested in him for him to eventually not pan out. That makes sense. Like, I don't know what's real and what's not when it comes to coaching searches, but, you know, Jed Fish was a name that was linked to Michigan's opening because of his ties there when Tromore got fired. And remember talking to a friend of your program, front of my program was very plugged in at Washington who said, like, I don't know if Jed would take it if he was not able to bring demand with him. And everything people are reading about the situation is like, whoever takes his jobs probably gotta keep Rice because we have so much literally invested in him. And so, you know, I almost wonder if that's like an anchor, if that's tying him down too much. I think a fresh start with a fresh coaching staff that has no preconceived Notions and that it could not be more different from everything Michigan has experienced the last decade plus will probably do him some good.
- [90:22]
A
And I will say, Bill, like you said, you thought about Keelan Russell at Alabama, right? Who is the number two quarterback recruit in that class with Bryce Underwood? The number one quarterback recruit. Bryce Underwood plays all of last year. Keelan Russell doesn't play at all. And so then now going into this year, like who do we think is going to be better? Because we saw all of Bryce Underwood's warts at times last year we also saw some good. But it is this constant thing of sometimes you want the mystery, right? But then there's also the, well, I don't know, who would you rather be playing for? And Michigan's been a mess, as Matt said, but like Russell and Underwood is an interesting comparison. And then Tavian Sinclair is the number three quarterback in that class for Ohio State and he's not going to play the plan for Ohio State till year three. So you have those top three guys, year one, year two, year three, three. How do their careers work out? Again, it's a little bit of a test case, but would you rather have, would you have picked Underwood or Russell higher in this draft?
- [91:17]
C
Russell. And part of that's because it's like the unknown but like Bryce Underwood one, like I, I for me like has like a shocking amount to clean up mechanically for a guy who was number one quarterback in his class. Two signed up to play in a drastically different offense than the one that Jason Beck's gonna want to run in Ann Arbor this year. I think there is a version of that offense with Bryce Underwood a quarterback that can be awesome. I don't know that Bryce Underwood wants to run that offense. So like that, that's, that's what I'm interested in seeing kind of play out this year.
- [91:52]
B
Did he sign up for the offense or he signed up for the 15 million dollar nil deal and live?
- [91:56]
C
No, I think he, I think. Well, yeah, of course he signed up for the money, but he also signed up for, for like this is the Tom Brady program that's going to turn me into a bona fide NFL quarterback and not make me run the ball 12 times a game. And he's going to have to run the ball 12 times a game this year.
- [92:11]
B
I mean the alternative was lsu, which post Mike Denbrock end up getting Brian Kelly fired.
- [92:16]
A
Offensively, no good options. Sorry, Burst. Yeah, there's, you know, we're going to be wrong. We're going to look back on this list and there's going to be guys that were drafted here in the top 15 that had not great years. There are going to be guys we didn't pick who had great years. But are we just, are Bill, are we bad at our jobs? Or is this just a very difficult thing to do when you're, you know, when you have transfers, when you have guys who are new to programs, when you're playing young guys, when you have coaches moving in and out, it. They're teenagers in some cases. It's just the nature of the beast.
- [92:53]
C
No one's good at this. The NFL is not good at this. Why do we have to be good?
- [92:58]
B
We're bad. Guess what? Come back for a third year so we could pick him next year.
- [93:02]
C
That's true.
- [93:02]
B
Yeah.
- [93:03]
A
That's true.
- [93:04]
C
Yeah.
- [93:05]
A
Okay. Why don't I, just to be fair, like, I took shots at Joel Clot and Greg McElroy because their lists were hot garbage. But this list might be hot garbage, too.
- [93:16]
B
Yeah.
- [93:17]
A
So we're, we're folks, we're like, we're, we're moving toward having conversations like this potentially, probably with Matt, with the three of us on a regular basis. Potentially. Like on a different feed where we can talk national ball. It allows Matt to do his stuff at the Independent, talking about Notre Dame. On a separate feed. It allows Bill and I to keep doing stuff here on the Bill and Doug show about Ohio State. But Matt, like, we, we want to have these conversations on the regular, not just in the off season, but during the season. So we're going to keep doing that.
- [93:49]
B
Awesome. We should do a weekly check in on, on power rankings of our quarterback drafts. I'm sure that will go over very well.
- [93:55]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Just to cut like, please subscribe to our channel where we constantly remind you how wrong we were sometimes. I don't know. It'd be a good pitch. The honesty might win out. Matt, again, tell the people where they can read your stuff.
- [94:07]
B
Yeah. Thanks, Doug. You go to the Inside zone. Inside zone mf.com part of the substack Stub Stack Network. Just like Bill and Doug on OSU and the Independent Podcast, a Notre Dame centric podcast, part of the five Star Saturdays network.
- [94:21]
A
And Bill, we've been, you know, just doing Ohio State Texas content all week and that included you on Thursday writing a story at bill&billanddugosu.substack.com from re watching the Ohio State Texas opener from last year and trying to think about, like, how that makes you think about the game this year.
- [94:41]
B
Yeah.
- [94:41]
C
There was quite a. I mean, the rosters have changed, you know, somewhat dramatically, but I still thought there was quite a bit to learn sort of from, like, how that game played out that I think can be applied to this 2026 game coming up. And also, like, I hadn't. I hadn't watched that game since it happened, so it was, like, kind of fun to revisit it and be like, oh, yeah, C.J. hicks played a lot in this game.
- [95:04]
A
Yeah.
- [95:04]
C
And now he's. Now he's at South Florida. So I. I thought it was fun. I wrote kind of like a diary type of thing. Just kind of like my thoughts as I was watching it over on the substack page.
- [95:14]
A
Okay, thanks to you guys for joining us. We hope you'll keep joining us as we continue to talk about Big Ten, college football, national college football, everything that's interesting to us and to you guys. For now, thanks to Matt Fortuna for his time on behalf of Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.