← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Did Ohio State help create dominant Indiana and Oregon teams? Would Woody Hayes like Curt Cignetti?
00:23:40
Indiana and Oregon are leading the nation in average margin of victory through the four weeks of 2025 -- and could both teams losing to Ohio State in 2024 be part of the reason why?
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- [00:02]
A
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo Foreign.
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B
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Just Doug, I just got, I got some thoughts I want to share and the first thought was would Woody Hayes like Kurt Signetti? And is Kurt Signetti this is based off okay, if this is not good, it's not a good introduction to a show. Doug Lay Marie's from the Bill and Doug Show. We got a lot of stuff planned for you this week. Ohio State visiting Washington on Saturday. You can check us out on substack, check us out on YouTube wherever you find podcasts. All right. Kurt Signetti beat the bejesus out of Illinois on Saturday and during that game Kurt Signetti, the Indiana head coach in year two was asked after a dominant first half, like what he wanted to see from his offense in the second half and he just said more points. And then after the game on the field he was asked about the win and he said like he said it was dominant, right? And then on Monday when he talked he said sort of like I don't want to talk about the past, I want to move on to the next thing. And he's so matter of fact about it. And the more points thing made me think is that Woody Hayes, why'd you go for two? We couldn't go for three. For three. Just like a matter of fact domination of an opponent and you don't let up. And is this attitude in the Big Ten that I think is currently being exemplified by two Big Ten head coaches sort of a matter of fact ruthlessness. Not an in, not like I mean Chris Ignetti will get in your face and he'll say stuff but just sort of like a straightforward this is how we're going about it and we don't really care what you think and we're just gonna do what we do. It's kind of an old school thing and it, it made me think that we are so far Removed from the gentleman's agreement days of the Big Ten. And Bill Landis and I did a project this off season you guys might have heard of. It's called the 25 Year Winter. And we sort of were. A lot of people talked about Urban Meyer coming to the Big Ten and ending the gentleman's agreement and recruiting and a ruthlessness that was part of Urban Meyer. But I, I think this is the next generation generation of that. That I don't even know that it's in your face. It's just part of who you are. And for that to be part of Big Ten football, that it is a. An everyday attitude feels like another shift in this conference. That is a very, very good thing. And I think it is being fueled right now by Kurt Signetti at Indiana and Dan Lanning at Oregon. And I am like almost we're getting ready for this gigantic banger. It's gonna be great weekend. A Big Ten ball. Ohio State at Washington, 3:30 on Saturday Eastern and then prime time Oregon at Penn State. And there's a part of me that is looking ahead to Indiana at Oregon in three weeks because this weekend Indiana plays at Iowa and Oregon plays at Penn State. Then both Indiana and Oregon are off next weekend and then the weekend after that is Indiana at Oregon. And the collision of Kurt Signetti and Dan Lanning and what they represent I think is a great thing because again, this is anything that's huge in the Big Ten, that is outside of Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan. That is beyond that. That is beyond the two teams who are part of the greatest rivalry in college football history and is beyond Penn State who has this blue blood reputation and this long winning history. Right. That beyond that we're talking about in. Oregon doesn't have a national title. Right. Indiana is not on this stage. But that you can create that kind of game is so good for the league. And I think part of what is happening this season, and maybe is a new defining characteristic in the Big Ten is Ohio State setting a standard, which has always been the case. This is my 21st season around Big Ten football. It has always been the case that Ohio State set the standard, but I don't know that other teams strived for that standard in the right way. But I think you could argue that the rise of Michigan, the national title for Michigan, 4. I don't even think it's an argument. Four straight victories over Ohio State by Michigan, that rise, the hiring of Jim Harbaugh to begin with, the rise of Michigan that culminated in a national title and NCAA Sanctions and you could even go down the path of everything that happened with Connor Stallions. Would that happen in a world if they weren't chasing Ohio State? Michigan's rise came from losing to Ohio State last year. Indiana and Oregon. Indiana lost one regular season game to Ohio State. Oregon lost one game the whole year in the playoff to Ohio State. And I think you might have the two angriest programs in the country right now who both made the playoff last year. And they aren't saying this specifically, but a gigantic motivating factor for Indiana and Oregon is losing to Ohio State. And the result is very talented football teams playing with an edge. And if this, this is again the next step of not just Ohio State winning, but it is when you have a program that sets a standard and encourages and demands other teams raise their level to reach that standard. Because you're saying, okay, if you want to, if you want to do this, you. You got to hang with us. I thought Oregon conveyed a very angry attitude in a good way at Big Ten media days. It caught my attention and I came away thinking about angry Oregon. I did not come away thinking about in angry Indiana in quite the same way. But maybe we should have, because right now, in major college football, biggest average margin of victory in the country right now. Number one is Oregon, 40 points a game. Number two is Indiana, 37.7 points a game. Number four is Penn State, 34.5 points a game. And part of this is the schedule. But also, Indiana just beat drop 63 on an Illinois team that was ranked in the top 10. And Oregon dropped a monster number on an Oklahoma State team. That's a Big 12 team, right? The overall number, the most points scored by FBS team this year. The second highest point total, point total is Indiana against Indiana State in state rival. You want to embarrass the team down the street. 73 points Indiana scored against Indiana State. The 10th highest point total is Oregon, 69 against Oklahoma State. That's been discussed. Mike Gundy, the Oklahoma State head coach coming into the game, kind of complained about Oregon's nil. They have all this money. They can buy a roster. Dan Lanning made a point. And then tied for the 19th highest point total is Indiana against Illinois, 63 points. Brett Bielema, to his credit, the Illinois coach after that game said that he's never been a position like that before in like a ranked game to get your butt kicked like that. But he said they kept pouring it on, which is exactly what they should do. So, Brett Bielema, we talked A lot in the offseason was kind of like he, he was the, he's the voice of the Big Ten in a lot of ways right now. He shoved South Carolina in a trash can last year in a bowl game and he talked it. Now Kurt Signetti also talks it. He, he, he pushed back against the sec when the SEC complained about Indiana making the playoff, when the SEC complained about Indiana's non conference schedule, Kurt Signetti would push back on that. So. But I still think of Brett Bielema as the voice of the Big Ten in a lot of ways. I think Kurt Signetti and Dan Lanning might be the backbone of the Big Ten. And then Ryan Day is the national champion I think is the face of the Big Ten right now. And so Lanning and Signetti now were partially defined by what they didn't do against Ohio State last year. Indiana lost its only regular season game, 3815 at Ohio State. They got down 317 in that game. And then Oregon was the only undefeated regular season team last year. They lost in the first, their first game in the playoff in the quarterfinals to Ohio State, 4121. They got down 34 nothing in that game. So Ohio State jumped on both those teams. Ohio State outgained Indiana 316 to 153. Indiana couldn't handle the crowd noise in Ohio Stadium. They got nothing going with their offense. The Ohio State defense dominated that. Ohio state outgained Oregon 500 to 276. That was the Ohio State offense that dominated that game. Oregon could not stop them at all.
- [10:20]
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Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese. Modelo and college football. College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruitment recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [11:17]
B
So you think about that. You think about the level of talent that exists on Oregon in Indiana right now. Dante Moore the quarterback at Oregon, Fernando Mendoza the quarterback at Indiana. Skill guys, receivers at both teams like, like good, good secondaries at both teams, right? They'll both get after you a little bit. And it is Two teams who did not shrink when they fell short against the standard bearer in the league. They're trying to rise to something now. Neither of those teams will face Ohio State in the regular season this year, which again is very interesting. Could we see one of those teams against Ohio State in the Big Ten championship game? You certainly could. Could we see them against Ohio State in the playoffs? You certainly could, but they are being motivated, I think, by that. But that, by that Ohio State loss and then setting out on their own path. So now they aren't defined by that Ohio State loss this season. They aren't ne. They aren't trying to avenge that loss to Ohio State, but they know where they fell short and they are using it to be better. And I would question a little bit, has Penn State done that over the years? I think the, the most defining, James Franklin. Now listen, James Franklin and Penn State beat Ohio State 16 in 2017 and 2018. They lost Ohio State by a point in each of those years. But a lot of what has been defined, I think Penn State against Ohio State, the most famous thing is when James Franklin after loss sort of said we're not that. And very clearly, I think outlined that that's where, that's where Penn State's falling short. But, but has Penn State over the years like been able to, to use that to get them somewhere? That I think is sort of like the next, the next step. Part of that, can you use, can you use the loss to get you to the next level? And I, I would question if that's happened with Penn State. I would, I think a lot of people would, but I think I, I would and maybe incorrectly, but I would look at what Indiana and Oregon have done so far and maybe say part of what is happening right now began with losses to Ohio State last year. So if that is the standard that Ohio State is setting, I, I think angry Ohio State, unless now you set it for each other. This is what a good conference does. Michigan beats Ohio State last year in the regular season. That motivates Ohio State. It forces them to look at themselves and to change. And the result is Ohio State didn't get back at Michigan yet, but they want a national championship. Michigan, by beating Ohio State helped them win a national championship. That's what I'm wondering if we're applying it here. Oregon and Indiana can't get back at Ohio State yet, but could that be motivating them to both be playoff teams against this year? It is what a great conference does. It is more proof of how far this conference has come because I think in the past you could have a great team like Ohio State. That Ohio State's greatness didn't do anything. It was isolated. It was. It was unto itself and it did not raise the level of the league. And I think you can see it happening now. So I think when you look at Indiana doing this, I think Brett B. Watching his postgame after Illinois lost to Indiana, gave a lot of credit to the atmosphere at Indiana, which is again, proof of not just a coach but a program. Right. This is everybody rising up to this. Said he was at a loss for words. He's never been part of something like this. It looked like we didn't belong Illinois on the field against Indiana, which was true. We have to own this. That's true. And he said that staff takes advantage of what you're going to give them as well as anybody. That is another credit to what Kurt Signetti and that staff are doing. Brian Haynes on the defensive side, Mike Shanahan on the offensive side, what they're doing at Indiana right now. And so I thought like Illinois absorbed that loss in the. In the right way. But again, you have to have teams in this league. I had gone through last week and tried to find, I think since I had said maybe Illinois, Indiana was the biggest Big Ten game that did not involve Ohio State, Penn State or Michigan since the 2015 Big Ten championship game. That was a playoff play in for Michigan State and Iowa. I believe I found 11 games from the end of the 2015 season through a decade later. That 2025 game on top 25 game on Saturday where there were two Big Ten teams that did not include Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan or Oregon. And it was a ranked game between two Big Ten teams. So it's about one a year for a decade. So it doesn't happen all the time. There's a lot of like Iowa, Wisconsin in there. Right. And so another part of this is Illinois was good enough and went found a way to beat Duke on the road in week two. Had enough returning players, did enough last year to impress people that Illinois established a foundation to allow Indiana to show how good it is. So this is how a conference grows. So now I'm thinking about, we all know this. Penn State's got to be on alert on Saturday because there's a part of me that wonders are these semifinals, Kurt Signetti over Brett Bielema, Dan Lanning over James Franklin. That sets up the Signetti landing showdown that then would set up. This is like an A bracket to figure out who's going to get a title shot at the champ. So these are our little rounds. But, but part of the point is the Big Ten can have rounds of that. Now. There can be multiple rounds in the Big Ten. When it used to be once upon a time, you would look around and ask who else can even get one good game out of this? And now we're getting multiple good games. So I'm intrigued by, by these angry teams, and I'm intrigued about what Indiana and Oregon can continue to be. Dan Lanning, when he got hired at Oregon, was making $5 million a year. He's now making $11 million a year in a contract that takes him at Oregon through 2030. Kurt Signetti, when he was hired at Indiana, was making $4.5 million a year. He's already gotten a raise. It's only in year two. He's up to $8 million a year on a contract that takes him through 2032. We certainly have had this conversation. Do you, do you think that Dan Landing maybe one day winds up back in the sec? Is this where Alabama would go if and when it ends for Kalyn DeBoard? Alabama certainly. I think they would try. But Dan Landing has certainly said he's not in a hurry to get out of Eugene. You see Oregon fans wearing T shirts that say the grass is damn green in Eugene. That's a quote from Dan Lanning. Dan Lanning does not have to go anywhere to do what he wants to do. You see now Kurt Signetti, he's a thorn in the side of the sec. He'll call out the sec, but I think there are SEC programs that would be very interested in Kurt Signetti. It feels like maybe there's like, would Florida go Kurt Signetti's direction this way? But does he have to leave to do what he wants to do to be what he wants to be? Or if you, if you follow a playoff appearance in year one. And now they're going to get, they're going to get games against Penn State and Oregon this year for Indiana. So they're going to get an opportunity to show that this is real in a way that they didn't have to and also didn't get to last year with that schedule. So they already did it against number nine, Illinois at Iowa was not going to be easy. And Kurt Signetti was already saying all the right things about Kirk Ference in Iowa going into that game this week. Then it's at Oregon, and then later in the year they're at Penn State. So we're going to find out about Indiana. But do you have to leave? Can you fire up the resources? Can you fire up the raises? Can you do what needs to be done? So that when Dan Lanning and Kurt Signetti and I think I would like to get away from this, but I think it's still a little bit of a shorthand or maybe acting like SEC coaches, what does that even mean? Why do they have to leave? Why is the grass greener there? Why can't Indiana and Oregon be exactly who they want to be with these two coaches staying long term? And it starts with a standard and the standards that has been set. And listen, I mean Michigan winning the national title in 2023 was another part of this motivating thing for Ohio State. So this is where we are, I think, in the Big Ten. And I started this off by saying, would Woody Hayes like Kurt Signetti? But really it's about an attitude shift that is feeding on itself. Ohio State dominates the Big Ten finally. And Jim Harbaugh is a huge part of this. Obviously Michigan gets tired of that and uses the standard set by Ohio State and the dominance of Ohio State to raise that level of at Michigan to beat Ohio State four times and to win a national championship that then motivates Ohio State. Ohio State uses Michigan's national title in 23, another loss to Michigan in 24, to win the national title in 24. Along the way, they beat Indiana, they beat Oregon. Here we are in 2025 with two dominant teams, the highest scoring margins in the country, who are talented and angry. And one of the things they're angry about is losing to Ohio State last year.
- [20:37]
A
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese. Modelo and college football. College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action, looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace them up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer, sponsor of the College Football Playoff. Modelo.
- [21:34]
B
Penn State's got to get in this mix. There's a ruthlessness, there's an edge that we've said Penn State has all it needs on the field. Dan Lanning and his was, you know, talking about the Penn State game after their win over Oregon State on Saturday, said they are as schematically, they are as difficult as anybody. They'll play. And this is Jim Knowles as a defensive coordinator, Andy Kotelniki as an offensive coordinator. Does Penn State have the edge to hang in a league where there's more than a few teams with an edge right now? So I love it. You also. So now this, this goes even beyond this, right? What can Nebraska do after a loss to Michigan last week? Can they inherit an edge? If Washington doesn't beat Ohio State this week, can they inherit an edge? Right. The future is bright for the Big Ten because there's one thing to set a standard, but there. There's another thing to have a bunch of teams who aren't afraid to chase it. And I feel like that's what's happening right here. So it's great to have Kurt. And this, again, a lot of this goes back to you got to have the money to pay these guys, right? To pay, you have to have smart hires. How smart are those hires? Initially, Dan Lanning, Kurt Signetti, other. Other schools could have hired those guys. They didn't. But then they. They doubled their salary already because those schools are willing to jump up and try to keep them. So credit to those schools, credit to what they're doing on the field, it's not going to be easy. And this is also the reality of when you. This is sort of like Ohio State's own doing. When you help create this, you then can become a victim of it, but the result is a stronger conference overall. And then if somebody gets you, then you get mad, and then you go get everybody else until you have a chance to get them back. So that's where I am on Indiana and Oregon. I'm. I'm very curious if Penn State can match this, and if Penn State can't match Oregon on Saturday and Oregon beats Penn State, then Penn State is going to have to bring that into Columbus, Ohio, in a month and use that to try to raise their standard against somebody else, Right? So maybe Penn State can do it. But I think you have to really like where both Indiana and Oregon are right now. And can you imagine a world where 10 years ago we would have been sitting here saying how excited we are for a Big Ten football game between Indiana and Oregon on October 11th? And I even think if you would have said that 10 years ago, it might have been like, well, I could see Oregon being in the Big Ten someday. But the harder part of that would be, why would I be excited to watch Indiana. And the answer is that might be a top 10 matchup. So and I also do think that, like if, if he's got that Pittsburgh accent. But, and, and those of you out there who were Ohio State fans while Woody Hayes was still coaching Ohio State, tell me if I'm completely off on this, but it just feels like Woody Hayes might get a kick out of Kurt Signetti. And if we're trying to think of coaches who have a little bit of Woody in him, maybe he's a, he's near the top of the list of guys that do. All right, film breakdown from Bill Landis. I think coming on Tuesday here on YouTube and in your podcast feeds. We'll react Tuesday, if need be, to what is said at Ohio State's news conference on Tuesday with Ryan Day. We'll have our playoff brackets on Tuesday evening. Big quarterback show coming on our Sub Stack Premium show for Substack subscribers. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see it on the bottom of the screen. We'll put it in the show notes. If you're in, listen on a podcast if you want to come join us on Substack. We do a big gigantic show every Wednesday there. We did a big thing about roster building last week and then we're also going to bring you here on YouTube and on on podcasts. A big game breakdown on Thursday. We always do Ohio State picks on Thursday. That's going to be a longer show where Bill and I are really going to dive into Ohio State in Washington on both sides of the ball. I do think Washington should probably be ranked right now. And they're not. They're not just, they're not getting a lot of attention. They have a blowout. They have a 70 point game against UC Davis, which is actually a pretty good FCS team. They're scoring at an incredibly high rate. They've only had three possessions this year where they didn't score 2.2 punts, the fewest in the country in a turnover. So they've got a little bit of a toot. Also, I like dudes. We like you guys being here. Thanks so much for letting us be part of this ride through this college football and Ohio State season. With you again, it's Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com for now, I'm Doug Lemurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.