← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Grading Matt Patricia: How Ohio State's new defensive coordinator is stacking up after three games
00:33:43
Ohio State defensive coordinator Matt Patricia met with reporters during the Buckeyes' off week three games into the season.
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- [00:01]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@indoubtedly.comBWN just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [01:21]
B
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Grading Matt Patricia on this episode we GR rated offensive coordinator Brian Hartline on the Wednesday show here on Thursday, Landis getting some more like we thought Brian Hartline was pretty vibey. Matt Patricia Very vibey. Yes.
- [01:38]
C
Yeah, he's, he's had really good energy about him like from the moment he showed up at Ohio State. I think just probably he hasn't said this, but I would imagine like partly grateful that, you know, he was like kind of waiting for a shot to get back into it and Ohio State is the one that gave it to him and he's done well with it. Right. So yeah, he's and again, same thing as Brian Hartline. Stiffer challenges await. But to put up put on the field what they put out on the field against Texas and then to be where they are now or the what, the number two scoring defense in the country. Yeah, you can't help but feel pretty good about the job you've done.
- [02:09]
B
It is I was going back to kind of watch one of the videos that I watched was near the end of his time as the head coach of the Detroit Lions because he was getting ask questions about job security. But I'm just trying to like watch the guy, right? And it is a pretty remarkable transformation. It almost, it feels to me like he was, he was like a kind of like a Grumpy dramatic actor who now in his later years is doing some comedies, right. That he's like, he's like Liam Neeson taken of like I will get my daughter back. And now he's naked gun Liam Neeson stabbing people with lollipops and dressed up in a schoolgirl outfit. That he's. It's like he's the same person, but it's like he's playing a different character in a different movie movie. Because he is. He smiled on Tuesday almost the whole time. Almost. When it didn't make sense to smile. He was just smiling.
- [03:17]
C
He was smiling. He. I think he made two jokes, right. He got the, he got the room. Get the room to laugh twice, which is. Would not have been on my map. Patricia press conference bingo card when Ohio State hired him. I do think, and again, like I say, this is a guy who, who had certainly preconceived notions about who he was. And, and in the end, I think the wrong impression of who he was. I think Matt Patricia fell victim to the thing that a lot of coaches who work for all time coaches fall victim to, which is like, you try to be that guy and you're not him. Right. So I think. And he said, he said as much. Right. He went to Detroit off of a Super bowl loss. I think he said. And, and he showed up in Detroit coaching that team like they had just lost the super bowl. And it's like, well, that's not going to work, bud. And I think now he realizes that we've seen, I think countless Belichick, Saban Meyer assistance, you know, go down that path to their detriment. And now that he's learned from it seems like he's in a much better place. And the players love him. Like, that's the biggest thing. Okay. Players absolutely love the guy. And like, what other endorsement do you need?
- [04:23]
B
I. I'm not sure that if you're saying you had the wrong perception of who he was. I'm not sure that's. I'm not sure anybody was wrong. I think maybe we had the right read on who he was or was.
- [04:45]
C
At least trying to be. Yeah.
- [04:46]
B
And he's changed.
- [04:48]
C
Yeah.
- [04:49]
B
Like, I think he, he seems to have embraced college coaching this opportunity that maybe he didn't think was going to come again. Again, I don't. It's not to listen, we all have opinions about things. Sometimes we're right, sometime times are wrong. It's fun to talk about sports, but anybody who raised an eyebrow at the Matt Patricia hire, it's like, based on his performance and the way sort of he was behaving and then the fact of, like, the jobs he had had since Detroit, I think all of that was reasonable to. To have questions about that. And then it is a credit to a person who is embracing opportunity and seems to have at least outwardly changed for the better. So, like, good. Good job proving any doubters wrong. But I think one of the ways he's proving it wrong is by. By changing who. Who he is, which is hard to do when you're older.
- [05:49]
C
It is hard to do. It's actually funny. So I. I went to my barber on Tuesday morning, and he's a huge Detroit Lions fan.
- [05:57]
B
Oh.
- [05:57]
C
And he said. He asked me as I was getting my haircut, he said, like, how's Patricia doing? And I said, he's actually doing a really good job. And he said, oh, really? Has he apologized yet for how it. For, like, the mess that was Detroit? And I said, actually, yeah, he kind of did. And he just went, oh, that's really good.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah.
- [06:18]
C
So it was just like a little bit of lightning. It's like, yeah, like, you know. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Credit to him for. For kind of realizing that he didn't handle that opportunity very well. And he's seemingly making the most of. It's not his second chance, I guess, because he did have jobs after that, but it's pretty high profile. Like, he ended in Detroit and sort of just like went back to New England. And I don't think people paid attention to him that much now. Like, Brady left and the Patriots were bad, and he was, like, kind of behind the scenes when he was in Philadelphia. So this is him, like, back in the public eye, I think, in a pretty major way. And the job he's doing is very good, but, like, also the personality that he is projecting is very different. Yeah.
- [06:55]
B
You know, the only thing that I think could make Matt Patricia happier than. Than he seems to be acting right now is if he went to row back.com and got himself one of these hoodies or quarter zips for the fall. Landis, they got a great Ohio State collection on here. It's fall, right? It's hoodie time. It's quarter zip time. They have some polos and stuff like that. And it's always a good time to buy Apollo. But I will tell you, I am staring at the Ohio State helmet stripe, quarter zip in scarlet, and then I'm staring at it. The Ohio State helmet stripe, quarter zip in gray, and this stripe. Landis, like, Ohio State fans are obsessed with the stripe on the jersey. You can have it right across your chest. As an Ohio State fan, doesn't that sound sweet?
- [07:38]
C
Yeah. The designs of Roebeck are actually like, they're pretty cool. They're pretty intricate. They do a really nice job for Ohio State and, you know, all the other schools that they work with of finding the like, it's like imagery that I think is most important to a fan base and then just slapping it on a polo. And actually it is warm enough still that you can rock the polo too. That's true. Get the hoodie for later when the weather finally changes. But for right now, polo is the way to go.
- [08:02]
B
Yeah. So it, and it is, it's like, it's, it's subtle enough that you can kind of wear it like in a, in a little bit of an upscale atmosphere. It's like not only game day attire, but also nobody would be like, oh, what team is that that you're representing? It's like, I have.
- [08:20]
C
Yeah, no, you're right. I have. I don't know if Roebuck actually does this, but they can have this for free because I thought of it when I was in the shower where I do my best thinking. It's, it's, you can, it's, it's good for the tailgate and the tee box.
- [08:33]
B
Oh, yeah, look at that. Yeah, that's the one good thing. I bet there are people for like a 3:30 kickoff. Like, like for 3:30 for the road game at Washington. Maybe you're having people over, but you can squeeze in at least 9 in the morning, maybe 18 if you get up early and if you slap on the row back, you don't have to change.
- [08:52]
C
Absolutely.
- [08:52]
B
So Rollback is a sponsor now of the Bill and Doug Show. So make sure, just refresh your activewear. Right. Hoodies, polos, quarter zip, fleeces. It's the game day collection that's going to bring you everything you want. You can get 20 off by using the code BAD20. You'll get your first order, you get 20% off. Again, that's code BAD20 to get 20 off your first order at Roback is there. Matt, Patricia was kind of talking about the idea of and, and Berman asked this question about larger rosters give you more opportunity for sub packages because you have more guys as opposed to a 45 man NFL roster on game day where half of that's offense and you're maybe limited by what you can do. And he kind of was into that idea and he was sort of talking about wanting to get guys different opportunities and different packages. But the sub package thing has been one of the primary things with Matt Patricia. Yes.
- [09:53]
C
Yeah, it has. He talked a little bit about that in the off season. Matt Patricia did. And it has been at times a conversation with other Ohio State defensive coordinators. But I was just always sort of skeptical of it because we never saw it happen. And. But now, like, Matt Patricia does actually seem to be embracing it. You see these, like the five man defensive fronts that. That get some more guys involved that he was saying, like in kind of accentuate specific skill sets on the defensive line without a guy being like a quote unquote, four down lineman kind of deal. Some of the stuff they're doing in the secondary. Yeah, I mean, they're not playing. They're rolling out 30 guys on defense every week. But among the guys who are like ready to play, it does seem like Matt Patricia is interested in finding roles for almost all of them to do in sub packages.
- [10:42]
B
The. One of the things. And. And I did get a question in for Patricia, this would have been the second one I would have asked just the. You know, I think a lot of people made a big deal in the Texas game about his NFL acumen, the kind of things he was doing, the coverages he was disguising, the looks he was changing to keep Arch Manning confused. And I think there was an implication of like, man, this guy's really bringing a lot from the NFL and the NFL is more advanced and this guy's pretty smart. And. And I have thought to myself, well, like, there's a lot of smart football coaches, but it's not about what you know, it's about what you can teach. It's about what your players can know. And there were two things that Matt Patricia said on Tuesday that I thought were interesting about that. One was he said he was excited that they were able to put some more things in against Ohio and he was glad about that. And he said sometimes, like in practice, they're trying to put something in and he's not so sure, like, maybe we shouldn't do this. And he said the players will say, like, let's give it one more shot. Like, let's keep trying this. Because he said that shows their investment in what's going on. And he gave, I think, multiple times. And it's clear to anybody who watches the intelligence, the dedication of these Ohio State defenders to picking up what he wants to do. So the idea that he's willing to back off some things if they're trying to install it, if he don't. He thinks they aren't ready. And then the players say, no, we want to do it. And then the other thing he said was sometimes like on a Tuesday, you're looking at the board with all these possible sub packages, right. And they're in that meeting room. They have magnets everywhere. And he'll think like, man, look at all this stuff we can do. And then he'll think, well, we don't have time to practice all of that, so we can't put that in. So I think like that's again, it's, it's not just what, you know, it's how you apply it. And the balance that he sort of expressed thereof the players do want to push the envelope. But then there are moments when he pulls himself back from maybe doing everything he wants to do because these are college guys who also have to go live their lives and they're not millionaire adults who are focused entirely on football.
- [12:36]
C
Yeah, I think that was another thing that I was unsure of. Right. Was like, how, how much would you try to impart to these players and can they handle it? And he's talked a lot about the fact that he's like, he comes from a family of teachers. He fancies himself a teacher. I was actually listening to a little bit of the podcast that Caleb Downs does with his brother Josh Downs, and they were. And Josh asked Caleb about Matt Patricia and like one of the first things Caleb said is like, he's a really good teacher. And like, I think like Jim Knowles was a good teacher too. He just, I would imagine has had a different like, sort of demeanor when he was teaching. And Patric said that maybe it, he hasn't said Jim Knowles's name specifically, but it has suggested that maybe a difference in how high se defense was being taught to. Like now with him, he's a little more conceptual with the way that he teaches things. I think like a little more bigger picture which I, you know, maybe allows guys to grasp some more concepts. And obviously the position coaches have, have a hand in that too. But yeah, I, you know, Caleb Downs has a computer in his brain. He's really smart. So is Sunny Styles. There's veteran guys on the defensive line, so it's not shocking that Ohio State defense has been able to pick up a lot of stuff. But I wasn't banking on it necessarily, or at least I thought it would take more of a ramp up than, than it has seemed to take.
- [13:56]
A
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- [15:15]
B
Another aspect of this that again, that's been talked about. I guess we haven't had him talk about it exactly yet until he did on Tuesday was calling this defense from the sideline, which again is not unusual. But Jim Knowles was upstairs there. Again, this is the constant thing. There's a lot of coordinators who are upstairs. You get the view of the whole field. And there's two things that he said again that I think apply to his line of thinking about this. One is when you, when you have a guy who's on the field, they always say that they like being down there because you can feel guys. You can look guys in the eye. You're, you're not. When you have the coordinators who are upstairs, those coordinates will talk about I like being removed. It's, it's calmer. Patricia on Tuesday said it is calmer upstairs. Some guys want to be calm, actually probably more of the schemers. The schemer you are, probably the more you want to be up there because it's like locking yourself in a soundproof closet. And if you're, if you're a little less of that and you want to be down in the mix with the guys, then you like being down on the field. But he's, he was talking about, he can see it down on the field. So he said sometimes you're with the guy and you're talking to him on the field about like, hey, maybe can we try this or change this and he said, if you get the double blank, which I can just imagine, it's like, hey, what if we do this? And the guy goes. It's like, what?
- [16:27]
C
I was actually wondering what he meant by that. I'm glad that.
- [16:29]
B
Yeah.
- [16:30]
C
Illustrated it. Okay.
- [16:32]
B
What? And then he's like, oh, so, okay, never mind, we'll do something else. So like, that was his example of. That's one of the reasons I want to be down on the field, because I want to, if I want to do things, I want to make sure the guys are okay with it. Right. And then the other is he's talking about like the tablets and the, the, the information they have available to themselves in the sideline now he can get every look he needs instantaneously on the tablet. And so before, if the advantage is, well, I'm up here, I can see the all 22 in real time. The guy on the sideline can see the all 22 in real time. And like, he was talking about how he loves that.
- [17:06]
C
I actually had not considered the impact that might have on coaching. Like, it's huge for the players. Ryan Day has said this since last year when they implemented it, and said it earlier this year when I asked him a question about Julian. Saying, saying, coming back to the sideline, they're talking, they're looking at the tablet, making sure they're on the same page. Great for the players, but I guess apparently good for the coaches too, because yeah, that is like, it's, it's the sterile nature and access to information. Right. Is the other part of wanting to be up there. But if you can now access the information while you're standing on the sideline, I could see why a guy like Matt Patricia, who's kind of always been down on the sideline anyway, would want to stay down there.
- [17:45]
B
And then if. So if, if the access to information is similar, then it's really more of, do you want sterile and calm or do you want in the heat of battle? And then that's just kind of about what kind of commander you are. And I don't know that one is better than the other, but I do think it tells you a little something about the person with the choice they make.
- [18:08]
C
Yes, he's, he's like, pretty. I mean, he is a former football player, as most, most football coaches are, but he's got that, like player coaches is a cliche. I understand that, but there are certain guys who I think carry the demeanor of a player, like, into the coaching profession, and he seems like one of them now. Right. Too.
- [18:31]
B
I also think Brian Hartline is one of them and I think they had to drag Heartline out of the press.
- [18:35]
C
I think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right.
- [18:38]
B
So if it's your choice, and maybe someday it will be Brian Hartline's choice. So Ryan Day, about Matt, Patricia, Ryan Day said last week, like, hey, the decision of on the sideline are in the box. And Ryan Day said, I don't care as long as it works. Basically because Patricia, super bowl rings, NFL head coach coordinator has earned that right. He didn't say that with Brian Hartline. I think he said, Brian, get upstairs.
- [19:04]
C
It's up to Brian. As long as Brian makes the right decision.
- [19:07]
B
Right? Which is, which is fine. And I don't think I, I don't think Brian Hartline would argue that, that like that's not entirely, you know, it's just, it's the difference of where these guys are in their careers. But I'll be very curious as Heartline continues in his career, first of all, if and when he becomes a head coach, will he be a play calling head coach? Will he want to do that or maybe will he want to find his guy? I mean, what he'll probably do is take Keenan Bailey and make Keenan Bailey the offense coordinator, where he goes, right? Not to make Ohio State fans freak out any, or will he want to retain that right. And then he'd be doing it on the sideline, right. So I mean, it's like I'll be, I'll be very curious to see what the progress is for Brian Hartline. The other thing, so the thing that I did want to ask Patricia and I asked at the end is just, is it, is hiring a new defensive coordinator and that adjustment, is it a big deal for the players and the new coordinator? Is it not? Because this seems to be working pretty darn well. And so, you know, do we make too much, oh, there's a new guy. He doesn't. And, and the one thing that he did is he's to his credit, he's constantly giving the players credit. But he did say like we didn't change all that much. So like what do you think of that idea? And I do think that is now he said we've kept some of the change some of the terminology, kept some of the coverages, kept some of the techniques. He said we did change some of the fronts, right. Which we've seen that that's the number one thing we've talked about. Do you think he's like actually downplaying that and by saying we haven't changed that much, has they actually changed a lot or is this part of the credit? And then again, it goes back to if what we question about the hire is actually Ryan Day thinking this. I don't want a guy who has a. His own way. I want someone who is willing to adapt to the things that are here that we do best, bring in new ideas. But it's not a tear down and complete rebuild of the defense. How different or the same do you think it is from last year?
- [21:02]
C
I think it's pretty different. Okay. Like if you just cut on the tape of a game from last year and this year, I think it would look pretty different now. But there, there's carryover, right? There's carryover in the sense that Ohio State played, you know, a lot of zone last year. Right. And they're playing a lot of zone now. There's carryover in some of the ways that Caleb Downs is being used and some of the things, some of the ways they'll align pre snap when you'll see all Those safeties and DBs like lined up deep on the same level. Right. Like some of the stuff that Jim Knowles did, but the fronts are very different. The simulated pressure stuff they're doing seems pretty different. The way he's using Arvell Reese is very different. So yeah, I think, I think like the quote, we're not changing much is maybe more about the fact that the entire defensive staff remained intact and they're not changing much about how they teach things. But what they're teaching is probably a little different than what they were doing last year. Okay.
- [22:06]
B
You did ask Matt Patricia about Arvell Reese and, and being used as both a pass rusher being used as a spy. What was his answer to that? Would you think of his answer to that?
- [22:15]
C
Yeah, I'm just, was trying to get. Because I don't know, I actually assume that we won't talk to either Brian Hartline or Matt Patricia before Ohio State plays Washington. So I'm actually glad there were some Washington specific questions there. And that was kind of what I was getting at with Arvella because I think he's just, he might be their most important defensive player for that game. But it's interesting to me because I don't, I don't know that because I think he's their best pass rusher, but I don't know that your best pass rusher is also always your best spying option. But he's both. He's both. And I asked about the balancing act between like using him in those two roles. But he seemed to like the idea of that person. Like those two ideas being contained within the same person. Because then it becomes a little unpredictable and you're able to keep the opposing offense a little more off balance as opposed to like, well, you know, Chase Young's the pass rusher, but Pete Werner's the spy guy, right? Like this, like they're. He is one of the same Arvell Reese and that's a heck of a weapon for, for Matt Patricia to have. And every time he talks about Matt Patricia and he smiles a lot, what you mentioned, he smiles a little differently when he talks about Arvell Reese and Caleb Downs.
- [23:28]
B
And then he also said about Arvel, that pass rusher spy. But then he also said he's making some defensive calls and changing some things for them. So like he's pass rusher spy, Mike linebacker, which again is how, how many guys in the country are that?
- [23:42]
C
Not a lot. You know, I also thought it was interesting. Like I, I certainly clocked it because, because you can pigeonhole a guy like. So I ask a question about Arvel being a pass rusher and a spy, and one of the first things Matt Patricia said was he had a really good pass breakup against Ohio. It's like, yeah, he did. You're right. Like he is a, he is a do everything modern linebacker. And I think Sonny Styles is in a lot of ways too. But, but Arsenal I think has, has maybe a little more just explosiveness to him. So it's part of the reason why we were all excited to see Arvel get his shot to be a starter. But it even saying that what he's done thus far I think is sort of beyond anyone's expectations of how they'd use him.
- [24:25]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster. And it makes a huge difference. According to INDEED data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed According to Indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@indoubtedly.comBWN just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [25:43]
B
I thought one other thing that happened with Matt Patricia this week, that is what we're looking for is for him to compare current college players to NFL players that he faced before. So he compared and this is just something for Ohio State fans to put in their back pocket. Enjoy the bye week, the idle week, the off week, and then get ready for Demond Williams Jr. The Washington quarterback. Washington vs. Washington State in the Apple cup this week. We certainly, if you're looking for something to do on Saturday, checking that out wouldn't be a bad idea. He compared Demond Williams Jr. To Kyler Murray and the specifics he was talking about was the first step of when he decides to go, the idea that he thinks Damon Williams Jr. Can get to top speed in one step when he runs with the ball. And that's what he most compared to Kyler Murray. Like, that's Kyler Murray, Heisman winner, first pick in the draft, franchise quarterback. So, you know, I know maybe there's been a little bit of, if you and I have talked about Demon Williams Jr. Or Luke Altmire or Drake Lindsay or some of the quarterbacks Ohio State's gonna face, it's like, I don't know, for real. So we're not saying it's Kyler Murray, but if you don't want to believe us, like, believe Matt Patricia. This is something for the Ohio State defense to have in mind.
- [26:58]
C
Yeah. So that game is 7:30 Saturday night on CBS, by the way. There have just not been many quarterbacks in the Big Ten who have made you think about Kyler Murray. Right. So.
- [27:14]
B
Jeff Smoker, Kyler Murray comparisons.
- [27:17]
C
So it's a different, it's a bit of a different challenge. It's not. Yeah. I don't think we're sitting here saying Ohio State's not ready for it, but they're on alert for it. It was also like, it was, it was interesting to me, like how much Matt Patricia seemed to already know about Washington two weeks, two weeks away from that game happening. They're, yeah, they're, they know what awaits them. It's going to be, it's going to be a good test for the defense.
- [27:42]
B
Yeah, yeah, we. And we will break all that down certainly next week. The last thing, Bill, on the Tuesday solo show that I did, I was sort of having a conversation with myself about could Ohio State's defense be the best unit in the country? One of the things I was talking about is, for instance, their havoc rate, like the, the big plays that they create as a defense, whether that's turnovers or tackles for loss or that kind of thing. They're kind of middle of the pack nationally right now. They forced four turnovers in three games. That's not a ton. I think they have 17 tackles for loss. That's kind of in the middle of the pack. They have seven sacks in three games. That's pretty decent, but it's not huge. They've been, I mean, and disagree if this is wrong. They. They've only given up four plays of 20 yards or more. That's excellent. That's tied for fourth in the country. They're not giving up big plays. I think they're confusing quarterbacks. They're keeping integrity in their pass rush lanes. They're spying quarterbacks, not letting them run. They're containing. They are containing in an excellent way. They're not super disruptive yet. What do you think is the path of disruptiveness for this defense? Or do you actually think they have been getting after it? And what do you think Matt Patricia, like wants them to do in that trade off between we want to get after people versus we don't want to give up big plays.
- [29:03]
C
Definitely lean more towards not give up big plays. I think there were times in the NFL where his defense has had like a bend. But don't break reputation. Okay. And he did not blitz a lot in the NFL, so I don't expect him to suddenly start blitzing a lot in college. I think in college a lot like the deception goes a much longer way.
- [29:23]
B
Right.
- [29:23]
C
Like, than it would in the NFL. So like, if you're disguising things pre snap, but then ultimately kind of getting yourself into what's a bit of a softer shell, good NFL teams probably can still find some success there. Right. A lot of college quarterbacks will, I think, remain confused by what they're looking at. So it's probably a little. It will yield more playing that way. Might yield more in college. I think that it would in the NFL. But I think, you know, he'll have more. He does a lot of stuff on the line of scrimmage with like bluffs and, and the simulated pressure stuff. And dropping guys and bringing safeties or linebackers that, you know, a lot of it doesn't count for, quote, unquote, havoc because it may not result in a TFL or a sack. But watch the way a quarterback reacts to it. And he looks like a guy who's experiencing havoc. Right. The ball, he, his, you know, their feet are rushed, the ball's not going to the right place kind of stu. So havoc's great. Like, I think Ohio State does need to find some ways to generate a little more of it. We had similar conversations about Jim Knowles's defenses, and they found ways to be a little more disruptive in that way in the postseason. But confusion is a form of havoc, I would say, even if it doesn't show up, like, numerically in someone's statute.
- [30:47]
B
I was going to ask if that's the word that you would, like, describe the Matt Patricia defense in one word, would it be confusing?
- [30:56]
C
I think so, yeah. For college quarterbacks, at least. Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:00]
B
And that, that is. And again that they have, it seems so far have threaded the needle. And maybe it's not quite threading a needle, but they just have taught it and the players have absorbed it in a way that they're not confused. The other guys are confused, which is a credit to all involved. But that is because you can, you can get after people with like, physically, here comes a pass rusher. We're bringing seven. Right. Or you can get after them mentally with maybe we're only bringing three. But you have no idea what you're looking at. And either one of those can create opportunities for defenses to succeed. So.
- [31:39]
C
Yeah, but the latter, the latter leaves you far less susceptible to. We're bringing seven. The offense guessed right. Here's a 63 yard touchdown because you didn't have enough guys to cover us. Right. Like, you're still covering your own butt while finding ways to be disruptive.
- [31:55]
B
And you. But yeah, and you brought that up during the game. I think during the Ohio game that there was a, there was a play where you said Jim Knowles would have brought six on that play and, and Matt Patricia didn't like, what was the example of that? You, you feel like there have been moments that have played out that way where in the past Ohio State would have gotten after it. It. But maybe in a way that was, maybe was successful, but also was riskier.
- [32:17]
C
I mean, it's the, it's the, it's the 2022 Michigan game. Right. Like, the blitzing. Like, like, why are you blitzing there? Like, I, I shouldn't say that you are blitzing there because you feel like you have Michigan on a Teals and you do. And J.J. mcCarthy doesn't know what he's looking at and can't complete a pass. And then you just like, gave him an out by blitzing like. And that was like. Yeah, that. There was a moment in the Ohio game. I can't remember exactly what it was, but I think Ohio State.
- [32:45]
B
Had like.
- [32:45]
C
Given up a first down in a frustrating way and then got back into an advantageous down and distance. And it was like, Jim Knowles is dialing it up here because he wants the ball back, and then Ohio is going to complete a slant for 40 yards. And yeah, Matt Patricia, I think. I think on that play and specifically he might have showed like six or seven on the line, but then only rushed three.
- [33:03]
B
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that. Right. Is that also a harm, a hallmark of Patricia so far? He almost always shows more than he brings, which then is setting up the game down the line where a quarterback say, be like, oh, there's six guys at the line of scrimmage, three of them are gonna drop. And then it's like, nope.
- [33:20]
C
Also, here they all come. Yeah. Yeah. Right. There's no, There's. I think there's been good. There's been good unpredictability, I think, so far. Yeah. And it's only. It's only three games, but yeah, he's, he's. I think that Patricia struck a good balance with that.
- [33:35]
B
So we're a half an hour in. We haven't graded them yet. It's called grading Matt Patricia.
- [33:40]
C
Yeah.
- [33:40]
B
What grade do you give Matt Patricia so far?
- [33:43]
C
A. I mean, I guess it could be an A plus, but. Yeah. Are we giving out pluses? I would say. I would say A. I'll say A. To give them. Give the defense something to strive for, I guess.
- [33:54]
B
I. I would say A also. And part of this is that I do think there's a curve. And when you and I brought this up in the show the other day. But like the Chris Ash, Notre Dame situation, new defensive coordinator there has been kind of a disaster so far. I don't think Tom Allen as a new defensive coordinator at Clemson's been a disaster, but they gave up two scoring drives in the fourth quarter to let Georgia Tech beat them on Saturday. Right. Right. When you know they didn't give up a ton of points. But it's the moment where your defense needs to stand up to win you a game. And they gave up a 90 yard drive and a 33 yard field goal drive. Right. That I think. And. And we're not prepared to do this right now, but I think certainly he's as good of a coordinator hire as happened in college football this off season.
- [34:36]
C
That'd be interesting. Yeah, we should probably look into that a little more. But yes, I would say that's probably the case.
- [34:41]
B
And so when you've got some Fs and Ds out there, then it helps elevate that. Like a reminder. Like, is it perfect? I actually thought maybe when I got inside the numbers, Landis, they would be even better than they are. So I didn't come to the conclusion that the defense is the best unit in the country because I think it wasn't. It wasn't quite there, but, like, the results are there. It just. I thought maybe I was going to start investigating stuff and be like, oh, my God, this is as dominant of an Ohio State defense as I. And. And it wasn't that, at least statistically. And you do have to remember that, you know, if Texas punches a couple of those in on the red zone, the conversation here is a little bit different.
- [35:19]
C
But.
- [35:22]
B
How it started and what's the thing, is it. And now I'm like, oh, it's that popular meme that's 7 years old. But, like. Right. I mean, it's like how it started, how it's going, how it's going. It's sort of like grumpy Matt, Patricia. And now it's like joyous. He's. He used the word joyful so many times in his news conference this week. And his players are that. He is that. And I think Ohio State fans are that because this seems to be working out pretty darn well.
- [35:49]
C
Yeah, I think I, I had similar experiences last year with Ohio State's defense when you dug into some numbers to try to explain how dominant they were. And it was like, oh, they're really like top 25 in a lot of things. But I wouldn't say they're dominant, but they were number one in stop rate. Like, it just depends on what you. How you want to define it. And I guess the simplest way to define it is does the other team score? Right? And they're doing a pretty good. They're doing a pretty good job of that right now. Right?
- [36:16]
B
Yeah, they're forcing a lot of punts. They've given up two touchdowns, a field goal and a missed field goal. And, and yeah, they're not. They haven't forced a ton of turnovers. You know, like Indiana, I think has 33 tackles for loss and Ohio State is like 17 and a half. Well, Indiana hasn't played anybody yet, but also who cares if you're forcing and they're forcing people to punt constantly.
- [36:38]
C
So.
- [36:40]
B
Okay, that's Grading Matt, Patricia Grading, Brian Hartline. You can find earlier in the week our national picks including Nebraska, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana. You'll find them on Friday here on your podcast feeds on your YouTube channel. And then of course we would refer you if you want even more Bill and Doug. Some premium shows written content. You can find that on the Bill and Doug sub stack.
- [37:05]
C
That's what it's called, right? It's called the Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com okay.
- [37:13]
B
For now, thanks to you guys for being here. It's an off week, but it's not not an off week for talking Buckeyes and writing Buckeyes. For now, he is Bill Andis. I'm Doug Lamoris and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [37:30]
A
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