How Julian Sayin and Ryan Day talk about QB play; Ohio State OL injury and rotation updates

Summary

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Bill and Doug Show (November 12, 2025), hosts Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis dive deep into the state of Ohio State Football after their recent success as defending national champions. The primary focus centers around Ryan Day’s perspective on the "art" of playing quarterback, particularly with freshman Julian Sayin at the helm, as well as key updates regarding the offensive line (OL) rotation and injuries. The episode is peppered with the hosts' trademark humor, big-picture analysis, and fan-first approach.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ryan Day, Julian Sayin, and the "Art" of Playing Quarterback

• Ryan Day’s Love for QB Play

  • Bill opens the show reflecting on how engaging it is to hear Coach Day discuss quarterback play, appreciating Day’s use of "art" to describe the position ([00:53], [01:51]).
    • "I feel like I could listen to Ryan Day talk about the art of playing quarterback for four hours and I think it would be fun..." – Bill Landis [00:53]
    • Doug underscores how Day becomes his most passionate when diving into QB nuances, a reflection of his roots and expertise ([01:51]).

• Family Ties, Parental Sacrifice, and Hypotheticals

  • Quick digression into Day’s son, RJ Day, who had a record-setting high school game and is on the recruiting radar at Purdue ([02:18]–[03:29]).
  • Anecdotes about coaches juggling family obligations and team duties, highlighting how even successful head coaches must make difficult personal decisions ([03:36]–[05:11]).

• Art vs. Science in Quarterback Decision-Making

  • The hosts unpack the fine balance Ryan Day expects: calculated risks, freedom to play-make, and the inevitability (and acceptability) of mistakes.
    • "You don't want to paralyze somebody, you don't want to have them thinking so much that they're frozen and that they're afraid to try to make a play. And that's what the art of playing quarterback is." – Doug Lesmerises [06:24]
    • Reflecting on how interception stats can be a misleading indicator—sometimes a risk-averse QB isn't truly unlocking his team's upside ([06:24]–[08:55]).

• Handling Mistakes and Player-Coach Dynamics

  • Bill contrasts "robotic" and instinctive QB play, noting Day's preference for QBs who can articulate their viewpoint and process—even after mistakes.
    • "He wants the scientific part, but then he wants you to play-make. He wants you to use your legs. He wants you to scramble. He wants you to be tough...But I bet you when you get to that point... 'Did you see the safety?...And you threw it anyway?' 'Yeah, I threw it anyway. I thought I could squeeze it in there.'" – Bill Landis [11:00]
  • Both hosts praise the developing synergy between Day, Sayin, and QB coach Billy Fessler ([12:42]–[14:00]).

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2. Julian Sayin’s Present and Future; QB Room Dynamics

• Sayin’s Trajectory, Comparisons, and the Arch Manning Parallel
  • Bill introduces the intriguing QB room “problem”: Sayin’s stellar performance might block other hyped recruits like Tavian St. Clair (Ohio State’s “Arch Manning”), but it’s a good problem to have ([14:48]–[18:33]).
    • "[Julian Sayin] is not gigantic...but you don't have to be gigantic to be a very attractive NFL quarterback." – Bill Landis [15:35]
  • Speculation: could Sayin play through 2027, or is an early NFL jump inevitable if he dominates? ([17:05]–[18:04])
    • "If he's just the best quarterback in college football in 2025 and 2026, he's probably not going to stick around for his senior year." – Doug Lesmerises [17:58]
  • Entertaining fantasy of Day, Sayin, and OSU stars reuniting in the NFL for the Jets, with RJ Day playing at Rutgers—illustrating the hosts’ playful rapport ([18:44]–[19:57]).

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3. Ohio State Culture: Toughness, Highlights, and “Culture Clips”

• Physicality and Program Identity
  • The staff’s emphasis on physical, “toughness” moments—known as “culture clips”—opens a discussion on what really gets football coaches excited: defense and grit, not just big plays ([20:07]–[21:31]).
• Host Skepticism
  • Doug is wary of over-prioritizing toughness over offensive explosiveness, but both agree defensive physicality is a reasonable focus ([21:31]–[21:41]).

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4. Offensive Line Injury and Rotation Updates

• Right Guard Rotation

  • Ryan Day indicated that Josh Padilla and Tegra Tshabola would split right guard duties once Padilla is healthy ([22:06]).
    • Bill and Doug discuss that the split could be due to Padilla’s lingering health, with the staff easing him back ([22:06]–[23:00]).
    • Possibility of Ethan Onianwa entering the mix if Padilla can’t go—the staff won’t do a three-man rotation for long ([23:00]).

• Role Evaluation and Backup Plans

  • Uncertainty remains around right tackle: Will Ian Moore continue to play once Phill Daniels returns to health? ([23:47])
  • Speculative chatter: Could starting center Carson Hinsman be moved to guard to get Padilla onto the field? Both hosts ultimately dismiss the idea as too disruptive this late in the season ([23:47]–[25:16]).
    • "I think that's a non-starter... he's never started at center before in the back half of a season where you are trying to repeat as national champions..." – Bill Landis [24:46]

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5. Young Talent Stepping Up on Defense

• Praises for Edric Houston and Others
  • Ryan Day is “almost giddy” about Edric Houston’s improvement and energy, viewing him as a rising difference-maker on the defensive line ([26:22]–[28:53]).
    • "He was almost giddy... discussing that Edric Houston has figured it out." – Bill Landis [26:50]
  • Jason Moore gets a positive mention as well—talent and increased opportunity could make him part of the DT rotation ([29:10]–[30:20]).
  • Kaden McDonald called “one of the best defensive tackles in all of college football,” setting up a formidable tandem as the season gets serious ([29:10]).

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6. Ohio State’s “Slow Ball” Offense and Pace-of-Play Discourse

• Why OSU Deliberately Plays Slow

  • Day’s preference for slower tempo now seems rooted in team culture and communication, rather than just game strategy ([30:20]–[32:00]).
    • "There's a longer term benefit to playing slow, but there also really seems to be something Ryan Day likes about, like the team dynamics of huddling before plays..." – Doug Lesmerises [30:35]
  • Bill notes Sayin already shows solid command in the huddle for a redshirt freshman ([32:00]).

• Strategic Evolution and Industry Trends

  • Day “throws shade” at fast tempo offenses, seeing conventional tempo as passé—defensive coaches have adapted, and now huddling gives unique advantages ([32:18]).
  • The hosts compare play numbers nationally, confirming that OSU’s slower pace is part of a broader trend ([33:01]–[35:02]).
    • "Ohio State's averaging 63 plays per game this year. In 2018, they averaged 82." – Bill Landis [35:02]
  • Tongue-in-cheek book idea: Slower and More Boring: How College Football Reinvented Itself ([35:15]–[36:02]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Ryan Day on QB Play as “Art”
  "When you sort of ask him about the art of playing quarterback...that's like kind of when he's at his best, I think because it's what he does, it's what he did, it's his expertise, it's what he still loves even as a head coach." — Doug Lesmerises [01:51]

• On QBs Taking Risks
  "If you never take risk, you're not going to get the greatest reward. And I think you would see with the Penn State quarterbacks, did they get that reward often enough?" — Doug Lesmerises [07:56]

• QB Transparency After Mistakes
  "‘Did you see the safety?...And you threw it anyway?’ ‘Yeah, I threw it anyway. I thought I could squeeze it in there.’ That's one of those like, right, where like you're kind of yelling at your kid, but you're like, you got to turn your head away because you're like, man, that kid. Yeah, I actually love that..." — Bill Landis & Doug Lesmerises [11:00]

• On OL Rotation and Staff Caution
  "I think that's a non-starter... he's never started at center before in the back half of a season where you are trying to repeat as national champions..." — Bill Landis [24:46]

• Praising Emerging Defensive Stars
  "He was almost giddy... discussing that Edric Houston has figured it out." — Bill Landis [26:50]
  "Maybe just not in this particular instance. I like the idea of [Houston] in particular because of like the five star pedigree and what we thought he could become sort of rounding into form at this time of the year is pretty exciting, I think, for Ohio State..." — Doug Lesmerises [29:10]

• On Changing Offensive Pace Trends
  "There's a longer term benefit to playing slow, but there also really seems to be something Ryan Day likes about, like the team dynamics of huddling before plays..." — Doug Lesmerises [30:35]
  "Slower and more boring. How college football reinvented itself. That would be good." — Bill Landis [35:15]

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Important Timestamps

• The “Art” of Playing QB (Ryan Day & Julian Sayin) – [00:53]–[14:48]
• Right Guard Rotation & OL Injury Updates – [22:06]–[25:16]
• Young D-Lineman Discussion (Edric Houston, Jason Moore) – [26:22]–[30:20]
• Pace of Play, Huddle Culture, and Football Evolution – [30:20]–[36:09]

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Episode Tone & Style

Bill and Doug maintain an expert, conversational, and occasionally irreverent tone. They provide accessible analysis for hardcore and casual fans, making heavy use of humor, hypotheticals, and inside jokes. The episode is equally about football insight, appreciating the nuances of coaching, and having fun with Ohio State culture and fan engagement.

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Final Takeaway

This episode gives a rich look at Ohio State’s ongoing quest for excellence, spotlighting the development of a superstar young quarterback through Ryan Day’s unique coaching lens, upcoming OL lineup decisions, and the integration of emerging defensive talent. The hosts don’t shy away from tangents or skepticism, but their expertise and camaraderie make it a thoroughly engaging must-listen for Buckeye Nation.

Transcript

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[Bill Landis]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Chopping it up with some Buckeye Talk. Bill, what's the plan for this Wednesday morning? Right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

That is the plan this Wednesday morning and most mornings, if I'm being honest.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, we like chopping it up. We like talking Buckeyes. Ryan Day spoke on Tuesday as he always does. He did speak an hour earlier than usual because it was Veterans Day on Ohio State's campus, but throughout America. And so campus was closed and they moved stuff up a little bit. Couple things we want to cover. We also just would remind you, like, subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. I want to start with the art of playing quarterback because I feel like I could listen to Ryan Day talk about the art of playing quarterback for four hours and I think it would be fun to sit in a room and listen to Ryan Day and his starting quarterback, whoever it is, whether it's Justin Fields or Dwayne Haskins or C.J. stroud or Will Howard or Kyle McCord or this season, Julian saying talk about the art of playing quarterback. And I like when he uses the word art. And he used the word art. Tuesday.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He did use the word art. It's when he very apparently like very obviously can't help but talk the most. Right. When you, when you sort of ask him about the, the art of playing quarterback or anything that sort of delves into that territory. He that's like kind of when he's at his best, I think because it's what he does, it's what he did, it's his expertise, it's what he still loves even as a head coach. So I think he relishes the opportunities to kind of talk in depth about it.

[Bill Landis]

So I kind of think so. Or his son, R.J. day, who is just having a great High school football season, is he not?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Hey, lit it up the other day. 480 yards, I think. School record.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Do you follow Ryan Day on Instagram?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes, I do, but I don't actually check Instagram all that often to see what he's up to.

[Bill Landis]

He does not. I follow very few people, so the people that I do follow, like, they pop up. He does. He's not very active on Instagram. He did. It was like, oh, Ryan Day has an Instagram story the other day. And it was like a. A thing of R.J. day's huge, huge game.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, cool.

[Bill Landis]

That he was.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I. I did not know this was happening at the time, but RJ took a visit to Purdue on Saturday. He was an unofficial visitor for Purdue, but I guess, like, part of the deal was he had to drive himself there because he had a game on Friday night and he wasn't on the team playing, so. But yes, he was a recruiting visitor for Purdue. Like, I'll be interested. Interested to see where he ends up because it seems like he is getting significantly better and maybe could be a, I don't know, kind of lower end, Big Ten guy. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

I will say, I. I wondered about this.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I.

[Bill Landis]

What would you have? We're just that we're making this up.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Sure.

[Bill Landis]

But what if Ryan Day had said, you know what, I really want to watch RJ play. You guys go, I'll take my own private jet over Friday night later. Or I'll. I'll fly Saturday morning. But I'm not gonna go with the team on Friday to Purdue because I want to watch my son play in a high school football playoff game.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't think it'd be unheard of for him to do that. But I, I bet Ryan Day is the kind of guy who, like, wants to be in it with his team. Right. He doesn't want to give any, any indication that he's not. So I don't. I don't know that he would do that unless it was like, I don't. Well, I guess if it were like a state championship game, Ohio State would be in the playoff itself, so I guess that wouldn't happen either. I do believe he does occasionally go to home games when OSU is like, at the golf course or at the team hotel. But I don't think you do it on the road.

[Bill Landis]

I mean, it's the exception to the rule. But, like, I. Yeah, no offense to Purdue. I don't think probably that that would be a thing to do the Friday night before the Michigan game. Yeah, but I. I would wonder about it. I would wonder if it, like, even crossed his mind for a nanosecond or if he talked about it. Because I bet you if he brought it up, I want. I think I would. Don't you? Do you think Ross Bjor and Quinn Temple, the chief of staff, and Brian Hartline and Matt Patricia would say, go, we got this. Go, go to the game?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, maybe the. But the other thing, too. You'd be setting a precedent for, like, every assistant on your staff who wants to do that to try to do the same thing. I don't know if you'd want to.

[Bill Landis]

Do that or if you want to do it. Be the boss.

[Doug Lesmerises]

That's true.

[Bill Landis]

I don't know.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Perks, baby. It's private, Chip.

[Bill Landis]

It's a very, It's a very. Like, I, I'm. We're making this up. It's not like I've secretly had a conversation with Ryan Day and he said, like, oh, I almost went to the game, but it's just like, it's. It's hard. It's hard. This is, this is that time in your life, and, you know, everybody goes through it, and there's lots of. There's lots of people who have jobs that take them away. So I just, I just was wondering about a little bit. I also kind of think. Do you remember how Tom Herman, one of his children, they. He. His middle name was Danger. Do you remember that?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Tom Herman's a kid. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Danger.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Because he wanted his son to be able to, like, say, my middle name is Danger and actually mean it. So he named his son's middle name was.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Was.

[Bill Landis]

Was Danger.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. That's a bit much. What do you ask me?

[Bill Landis]

I kind of want Ryan Day. I kind of wish RJ's Ryan Jr's name was Art. Art Day. And it would be like, Ryan, why did you name your son Art? It's like, because I love the art of football.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Jazz music.

[Bill Landis]

I know. Yeah, I know. Hey, we're here with Art today. Art Day, he just threw 456 yards. I think that Ryan Day, I think one of the best things about him about quarterback play and about offense is that I do think he mixes the science and the art very well. And I think that it can be a very difficult thing. And so the conversation about this was about the pick that Julian saying, threw. And, you know, it's, it's, it's a bad throw by Julian saying. But he's also talking about, like, you, you don't want to paralyze somebody, you don't want to have them thinking so much that they're frozen and that they're afraid to try to make a play. And that's what the art of playing quarterback is. And I think, Bill, sometimes you can look through college football and, and I think you can see quarterbacks in real time struggling with the art of the sport. And I do think sometimes I, I. Because it's one of those things. Because sometimes to me, my instinct is that throwing an interception is art. Oh, it's beautiful, right? It's like throwing a bunch of paint at the wall. There's nothing better than an interception and then you call it art. Yeah, you're get out of jail free card. What happened there, that was art. But I do think sometimes, for instance, when you watch the Penn State quarterbacks in the James Franklin era, I feel like they struggled with the art of it. Now, in the end, the hard thing is what sort of killed Drew Aller in the end was an interception against Notre Dame last year in the semifinal to end that game, an interception against Oregon and double overtime. So it's not like, hey, I wish Drew Eller threw more picks. But there was also that time when the big thing about Drew Eller was he doesn't ever throw any picks. He hasn't thrown a pick for 843 plays. And I actually would say I wish he threw picks because I feel like that's robotic, that's scientific, that's not ever trying to make a play in an appropriate circumstance. And if you never take risk, you're not going to get the greatest reward. And I think you would see with the Penn State quarterbacks, did they get that reward often enough? Right. And then even I think you could find even like in those two picks that we're mentioning there, they felt like a little more like scientific picks, you know, that it's like, well, it was a bad read as opposed to like, ah, he's trying, he's trying to make a play his team. And I do think when Ryan Day brings that up to your point, he loves it. But also I think it might be the thing that he's best at.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, it probably is the thing that he's best at. I also think, you know, there's, there's another side to the coin where as a player you have like to, to be able to take a chewing out sometimes, like not, not let it sort of impact you the way we've seen it impact some players. And I think, and there's something about Julian saying that that position Some. Well, there too. Like, I'm trying to. Like, I would imagine that CJ Stroud and we didn't love getting chewed out by Ryan Day early on. Right. Just like, knowing C.J. and how sort of like, confident he was in his own abilities and like, not afraid to speak his mind either. Right. And I'm even saying that's a bad thing, but I. I bet that's something the two of them had to work through. And I'm not saying that Ryan Day and Julian saying haven't had to or won't have to work through something similar in the future, but again, just like, sort of observing personalities. I wonder maybe if there's something about Julian's makeup that even if. Even if Ryan Day did chew him out and he kind of said he didn't after that play, that he would just kind of roll with it and be okay. Anyway, I think, like, that come under pressure thing does not only have to apply to how you handle things on the field necessarily. And I think that's what really Ryan Day is. And he said this before, like, he's. He is trying to make his quarterbacks as uncomfortable as they possibly can be in practice. So. And like, in the meeting room and when they're being taught so that when they get to the game and it is exceedingly difficult, it doesn't feel that way. So. But I think that that kind of gets to the art you're talking about too. I do think preparing his quarterbacks for, like, quite literally everything that comes with a position on the field, off the field, is probably his best strength as a football coach.

[Bill Landis]

Because I think there is such a difference between I didn't see that guy, or I read the coverage wrong or that's not what I was expecting, versus I knew he was there. I just thought I could throw it in the window.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, I knew.

[Bill Landis]

I knew exactly what was happening, and I knew I had a quarter of an inch to make that throw, but I was like, I think I can make it. And then if you throw a pick. So Ryan Day, once, all he ever talks about is he wants to know, what did you see? What did you see? And he wants to make sure that the quarterback is seeing the same thing that Ryan Day is seeing. And if you can explain it, but, like, that's. We've talked about, like, what's the next step with Ryan Day? It's like, well, he wants. He wants the scientific part, but then he wants you to playmake. He wants you to use your legs. He wants you to scramble. He wants you to be tough. He wants to put you to put your shoulder down when it's time to get a pick up a, a first down on third and three. But I bet you when you get to that point, the quarterback it's like, well, did you threw a pick? It's like, well, did you see the safety? I saw the safety. Would you see underneath linebacker? I saw the underneath linebacker. Or did you see how this guy was shading off this guy? I saw it. And you threw it anyway? Yeah, I threw it anyway. I thought I could squeeze it in there. That's one of those like, right, where like you're kind of yelling at your kid, but you're like, you got to turn your head away because you're like, man, that kid. Yeah, I actually love that, you know, like he's supposed to be in trouble right now, but I actually love it. And I could see Ryan Day and Julian saying like, get. They have a long time left together. They do. They could get to that point. I want to throw in two things here. One thing is he said on that play in particular is throw it away or run it. So he did bring that up. That it's like, okay, because. And we talked about this already. And it's also just makes me. I like it. Like we talked this out and then I felt like the conversation that you and I had about that play, Ryan Day affirmed like what we were talking about, which is, it's dead from this. It's dead from the snap because they dropped date. What are you gonna do?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, he said, look, he had like quite literally the same conversation we had about it because it was, the options were like, check it down immediately because nothing else is there. They, they blanketed the end zone with, with defenders. Drop, drop an eight. On third and goal from the seven, there was a three man rush. So like really anything in the ed in the end zone is dead. So check it down to CJ Donaldson. Scramble and see what you can get and see if you get enough for you to make you feel like you should go for it on fourth down or just throw it out at the back of the end zone because you already have the field goal. And like, I guess it's good. Like that's sort of what Julian saying said like immediately after the game too. And I'm sure they had that conversation on the sidelines after, after it happened. So maybe he was just parroting what Ryan Day said to him. But I thought like hearing Julian say that after the game, then hearing Ryan Day say basically the same thing on Tuesday was just yet another sign that I think they're, like, kind of in sync with this thing and like, you know, include Billy Festler in that, too, because Billy Fessler is a position coach and he's teaching it the way Ryan Day wants it taught. But, yeah, there's a pretty strong connection there. I. I've really, like, never, at no point this season have I felt like the coaching of the quarterback and the quarterback play have been out of sync. It's grown clearly over the years and expanded. And they're giving Julian Saying more. But. But it has always seemed to have happened sort of like in lockstep with one another.

[Bill Landis]

So the really thing, I mean, it feels like maybe the actual, the best thing there is, like, just run for as much as you can get. Try to get an extra.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Probably running.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, just take off. Like, maybe make that decision a little bit quicker. Like, it's not there. I didn't take the flat. It's not there.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Go.

[Bill Landis]

And then you give us an option because we're not going to go for it on 4th and 7, but maybe we'll go for it on 4th and 4. If you can get 3 yards on a scramble, which kind of.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, I bet if fourth. I bet if they got it to the three, they would have gone for it. Yep.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, the three and a half. They would have had to call timeout and talk it out. But. Yeah, but I think you're right. I think. I think you're right. Four is. No, three is. Yes. Three and a half. They're calling timeout and talking it out. I'm gonna throw this just like I'm just gonna drop a bomb into the show. Drop a bomb right in the middle of the show.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

I have already one of the very first things. And people can find more coverage from us on our sub [e-mail] maybe the first thing I wrote was that Tavian Sinclair is Ohio State's Arch Manning, that he is this guy who is this quarterback who's a little different than the very good starter ahead of him, but that maybe, like, we'll get to a point at Ohio State like they did at Texas, where it's like, well, our Quinn viewers is good, but, man, I wouldn't mind to look at Arch. Now. Julian saying has been so good. That story might just be blown out of the water already. But, like, also Tavian Sinclair people are still really excited about talking about how long Ryan Day and Julian Saying have together. Julian saying is not gigantic. Now, Bryce Young's not gigantic and he was the first pick in the draft, right? Baker Mayfield's not gigantic and he was the first pick in the draft. You don't have to be gigantic to be a very attractive NFL quarterback.

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[Bill Landis]

Julian sand as a starting quarterback in 2027. If I asked you right now, off the table or at least slightly possible.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Slightly possible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe it's fun. When I, when I talk, when I wrote the story about Julian, I forget name the starter. I was talking to his quarterback trainer from out in California. The guy that he brought up as like the person that Julian tried to model his game after was Bryce Young. Now they're not the same player because Julian doesn't run like that, but I think they maybe manipulate the pocket in pretty similar ways.

[Bill Landis]

Bryce didn't run a ton of especially his last year. Like Bryce did not run a ton. Bryce. Bryce maneuvered. Bryce stayed alive. I'm. I'm just, I'm just curious. So it's like one of those things. If he's, if he's just the best quarterback in college football in 2025 and 2026, he's probably not going to stick around for his senior year in 2027.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But my bet would certainly be that he's off to the NFL by then. But I don't think it's impossible that he would stick around.

[Bill Landis]

Right? Because like normally you say stuff like that was like, well, if it doesn't go as great as you would expect, but it's like it's right now it's going as well as anybody could have hoped. Yeah, so I'm not. I'm not throwing it out there with the idea of, like, oh, I got a little shaky after this great start. It's like, no, it continues at this pace, but maybe it just is, you know? But then, of course, it's one of those things that people are like, so then Tavian Sinclair just stands around for three years and doesn't get replaced. Like, what. What a problem to have. What a problem.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We've already. We've already gamed this out. Julian and Jeremiah are going to the jets together, and then Ryan Day is going to coach the jets, and RJ's going to go. And RJ is going to go to Rutgers.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, yeah. Did you already say that on a show or is that a private conversation?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Conversation.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, yeah. How's everybody feel about that? Like, what an interesting thing to say, Bill Landis, as you just blew up the program that everybody watching loves with all of our heart and soul.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But also, they'll draft Arval Reese this year. It'll be great when they all get back together in East Rutherford.

[Bill Landis]

I mean, they're trying. Garrett is a. It's a reason for frustrated Garrett Wilson to stick around. Jeremy Ruckert can stick around and still be there. Who are the others? Josh Myers is there. Josh Myers, like, just get the gang back together. And no offense to Justin Fields, but, like, it doesn't feel like that part's working out the best. So Greg Shiano's excited. Greg Shiano is signing up for this. And then. Because then Ryan Day, like, you don't have to. Like, he. Well, then Ryan Day is like, yeah, that's gonna be a big thing. And then on all the New York tabloids, if Ryan Day spent Saturday watching his son play for Rutgers, why wasn't he with the Jets? I don't know if they should do it.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, that's okay. You don't want to deal with that New York media. Yeah. Plus, he's a Boston fan. He's a Boston guy.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that's true.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He's gonna. He's gonna coach against the Patriots twice a year. I don't think he could do it.

[Bill Landis]

You're right. He. He. Those are the games that he'd skip to go to the Rutgers games.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

He's like, I'll be. And then Matt Patricia could go be as D.C. too. You're destroying people's lives right now. Congratulations. Everyone's freaking out. One thing I thought was interesting, beyond the bombs we just dropped, Ryan Day was talking about. I can't remember the exact question, but they were talking about, like, being physical. And he said when they sit down and like watch stuff as a team after a game, the first thing they show is like the big hits. And he said, we call those culture clips. And so I will say, like, I am so on alert for any time Ohio State references toughness in any way. I'm like, why are you showing clips about big hits? Why aren't you just showing clips of Cornell, Tate and Jeremiah Smith catching passes? What's wrong with you? But as long as they're defensive physical clips, I think I'm okay with it. I just don't want them opening their meetings with, look at C.J. donaldson being physical on this two yard run. That's what we're all about. Then I'm like, oh, God.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Well, I mean, there, there will always be some element of that, whether they go back and watch. At the end of the Penn State game, James Peoples runs for two yards and Ryan Day practically runs onto the field clapping because he was so happy that James Peoples broke a touchdown on a two yard run in a game that was decided at 45 minutes prior. They are football coaches and football players. At the end of the day, we know what gets them fired up.

[Bill Landis]

Okay, but aren't you still, are you still on alert for toughness, conversation stuff or no. You think it's all good?

[Doug Lesmerises]

No, I, I'm not. No, I think.

[Bill Landis]

Okay, let's talk about some of the injury stuff that came up. It was, it was interesting. I already know, I think what I went on to Ryan Day on Wednesday, but he went through some of the offensive line stuff. He, he did say that basically he's thinking of Josh Padilla and Tegu Shibola as, as splitting the right guard duties as soon as Josh Padilla is healthy. What did you think of that?

[Doug Lesmerises]

I wasn't really sure what to make of it. Unless it's like. Because I think the question was asked the way it was asked. It might have been Dylan Davis who asked. It was like, will Josh take over as the starter when he comes back? Or like, can Josh take over as a starter when he comes back? And I think at least the initial reaction to, for Ryan Day from that is maybe when Josh Padilla comes back, he will not be all the way 100. So they wouldn't want to do that to him. So share the job, let him play it out. And as Josh gets healthier, maybe he can do it is kind of how I took it. Or maybe they, they split the role and they both like, kind of play better that way. And they keep rolling them both there. The thing that most interesting to me was like, the insertion of Ethan Onion one that into that conversation, because I can't for the life of me imagine they're going to rotate three guys there. But maybe if Josh Padilla has to miss another game, they might rotate Ethan Oniano there with Tiger Shabola, at least for this one game against Houston.

[Bill Landis]

Because I will say, like the Penn State game, that's what they felt like they were starting to do, right? It's like Tiger Chabota played the first two series, Josh Padilla played the next two series, and then Josh Pitty didn't play anymore. We were like, oh, Tiger won the job. And it's like, no, Josh Padilla got hurt and then Josh. But he didn't play against Purdue. So if that's what they're doing, like two for you, two for you, two for you, two for you. And that's what the Padilla Shabola thing is until further notice. That would not surprise me. The thing that I want to ask on Wednesday after practice, because we. He did talk about Ian Moore, but I don't know that we have an answer of, okay, so he liked. He. He liked it after the game. And then he reiterated that on Tuesday he thought Ian Moore played well. Does that mean that Ian Moore will continue to get some snaps at right tackle even when Philip Daniels is healthy? I don't think we have an answer to that.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We do not have an answer to that. I think there's a couple things because someone else. So there's. I think there's that. I think there's the, like, while we're talking about it, like, Ken Ian or Phil Daniels play guard theoretically. And I saw this float it on substack in one of the comments. I think I responded to the idea of, would you ever consider putting Josh Padilla at center and moving Carson Hinsman to guard? With the thought that Hensman last year played left guard against Penn State and then played for a couple games. And like, I actually think in that sample size, he looked better at guard than he's ever looked at center. Not to say that he's a bad center. I just think he might be a better guard. So. And Josh Padilla is like the center in waiting. So, like, how. I guess, like, how far down the road are they willing to go with, like, truly finding the combination of the best five? I don't think. I don't think it's swap out your starting center in the 10th game of the season, but it's probably worth all kind of getting on the table to see where they're at. Exactly.

[Bill Landis]

I think that's a non starter because I don't think they would want to put in a guy who's never played. We know he's the backup center and he's the future center, but he's never started at center before in the back half of a season where you are trying to repeat his national champions because the whole thing with Carson Hinsman is the first year he was the center, he wasn't ready to be the center. But then when he was called on last year then he was ready to be the center because partly because of all the reps he got at center before. So I just, I think it's too late.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I think. I think if there was a time to try that, it was like three weeks ago.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. So it's interesting to think about. I think it's it to have that brought up by a viewer or subscriber I think is interesting to think about. I think just center is different enough that I don't see it.

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[Bill Landis]

You you wrote about this on your Ryan Day debrief. Just some of the young guys that he brought up. Bryson Rogers, Edric Houston, Jason Moore. Like what what did you think of that? Some of the younger players that he seemed to be impressed with, I thought.

[Doug Lesmerises]

For the the defensive tackle thing, I thought it was interesting that he was sort of using Edric Houston as the example for Jason Moore. Like it and we've talked about this a little bit the last couple of weeks how it does seem like Edric Houston is playing better and he started against Purdue because Taiwan Malone didn't play. But it really does sound like Ryan Day believes Edric Houston has sort of figured it out and is ready to.

[Bill Landis]

Like turn it on right was almost giddy.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

About. In discussing that Edric Houston has figured it out.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes, I think, I think he was too because. Because he's been asked about it. He would have been asked about it last week and I could sense a little bit of like reservation and, and wanting to express how excited he was about it. And then I felt like, like this week he really didn't hide that at all. And maybe that was just like they went on the road. He started and he continued to play well and there was no. What did he refer to it as? Draw. He said less drama, which I think he means just sort of like a young guy being consumed by the normal ebbs and flows of a football game in a way that really does not help you bring out the best in your. You. I think that has ceased for Ed, for Andrew Houston and now he just realizes that he can be like a pretty dominant player, snap after snap. And he's starting to tap into that.

[Bill Landis]

And he was talking about how Edric Houston lights up a room. So this feels like a dynamic young talent who maybe just thought it was gonna happen. Like, hey, I'm a big time recruit, it's my time, I'm confident and let's go. And then it. He played a bunch of snaps against Texas and then like it didn't just automatically happen. And so as I think as often happens when you have a guy like that that has it, that has that confidence and that charisma and that like incredible self belief and then it doesn't happen. You've gotta. Sometimes you have to knock that guy down a little bit. But also it's, it's just like the art of playing quarterback. It's the art of like knocking down a player and building him back up. And it feels like that is what this process has been. And now if what they have come around to is this confident, charismatic version of Edric Houston who also understands exactly what it's going to take. And he is far from the first young player who maybe didn't exactly know when it was going to take, when it was his time. If that's where they are now, then watch out. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And I think I, I think they, they are kind of there. I've just, I just, like I said, I felt that building for the last.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Couple of weeks. And I think you can see him too, like playing with that energy, which is he's. We know how high I was on them coming into the year and, and I was clearly out over my skis a little bit and early, but maybe not Wrong. I think that's an important distinction.

[Bill Landis]

Early not wrong is a great way to live.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've been wrong plenty. Maybe just not in this particular instance. I like the I, the idea of him in particular because of like the five star pedigree and what we thought he could become sort of rounding into form at this time of the year is, is pretty exciting, I think, for Ohio State because that's, that's potentially like a real difference maker to put in the middle of your defensive line next to a guy like Kaden McDonald, who's playing like the, one of the best defensive tackles in all of college football. Like, that'd be a heck of a tandem. And then you still would have Malone, who's played well as an important backup, Will Smith as an important backup, and maybe Jason Moore, who I, I must say, like, I wasn't paying a ton of attention to both watching live and in the re watch. So I don't want to pretend like I, he impressed me. I'll just say like I wasn't watching close enough to feel any type of way about it. But Ryan Day, when like posed the question of like, hey, I thought Jason Moore popped a little bit, he seemed to agree. So that's another guy with like a really strong recruiting pedigree who's in his third year and has had some injuries, but still I think has a considerable amount of talent that Ohio State could tap into. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

All right. Last thing we'll talk about is this pace of play conversation, which is only the 14th time. Yeah, it's been brought up in a news conference this year. What's left to say about it? And what did you think of what Ryan Day said about it Tuesday?

[Doug Lesmerises]

I, I don't really know what's left to be said about it, to be honest. I think, I think Ryan Day did talk about it a little differently this, when asked about it on Tuesday. And he said this last year, like with Will Howard, he liked the idea of Will Howard being in the huddle, being able to look guys in the eye, give them a tip, pump them up, calm them down, whatever they need, that kind of thing. And Ohio State has just gotten so accustomed to that that, that now like, yes, there's a longer term benefit to playing slow, but there also really seems to be something Ryan Day likes about, like the team dynamics of huddling before plays and having the opportunity to, to talk about stuff. And I thought it was just sort of random, I guess, that I, like, I found myself paying a little closer attention to some of Like Julian saying's mannerisms in the huddle in the Purdue game. Maybe because the Big Ten network was doing a good job of showing it. I don't know. But he seemed to have a pretty strong command of it for, for a red shirt freshman. So I don't want to pretend he's the same as Will Howard who's was 24 years old and had 30 something starts under his belt. But I bet that's a heck of a thing to have to grow into to stand in the middle of there and, and spit back out those verbose play calls and then, you know, get everybody on the same page before you break the huddle and go run the play. But it seems like that's, in my opinion, just guy watching. It seems like it's a strong suit of Julian's now.

[Bill Landis]

But.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But clearly Ryan Day likes that. I actually wonder what he might like, even what he might look like more the effect of it cutting down on the number of plays or the team building that it brings. Because I, I'm not certain that the answer is, is the former. It could be the latter because.

[Bill Landis]

And the other thing too that I thought was a little bit different, he was talking about tempo and he basically said everyone's figured out tempo. A defensive coordinator just knows by your formation or they're doing this. And he almost made it sound like if you're still relying on tempo as an offense in college football, you're simplistic.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes. Which is something for them, I think started, started around the Brent Venable stuff.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Because they were worried about Brett Venable stealing their signs and stuff. So like they, they weren't outright. Although they did like outright huddle a little bit in that second Clemson playoff game. But that's when they also did like that muddle huddle stuff where they would like huddle close to the line and then sprint to the line and snap the ball right away. And it's just now evolved into what we see now.

[Bill Landis]

And it's evolved into not only do they play slow, he's now throwing shade on playing fast.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes. There aren't like, I don't know how many teams are playing at warp speed anymore. Yeah. At least on, at the major college football level. One of the other things I wrote.

[Bill Landis]

About.

[Doug Lesmerises]

On, on Tuesday in relation to this was just like looking at some other teams and their place per game. So like Ohio State's at 58.8. It's down a little bit from last year from 63.9. Indiana's down from 63 to 59. Alabama is down from basically 72 to 61. That's a pretty big drop. Oregon's down 65 to 61, Georgia is down 69 to 65, and Ole Miss is down 74 to 67. There's like a couple of teams I pulled just to see, like where they were this year relative to last year. And it's like a lot of teams are playing slower.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it's remarkable. Like it's, it's practically revolutionary that we've, we've revolutionized back the other way from the time when up tempo. It's like Urban Meyer hired Tom Herman to go up tempo because Urban Meyer hadn't really done it before and he was so intrigued by it. And, and now it's just like completely, completely passe. Kind of is. I, I don't know. It's like people wrote books about the west coast offense. Are people going to write books about, like, playing slow, how to revolutionize college football?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right. Yeah, I think they could. I'm looking to see, like, there were, there were like, I don't know, 70 something teams getting 70 plays per game in Ryan Day's first season as a head coach. And now there are, let's see, like 20. It's like half or more than half? Less than half. I mean. Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Ohio State's averaging 6, 63 plays per game this year. In 2018, they averaged 82.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, it's remarkable. It's remarkable.

[Bill Landis]

Slower and more boring. How college football reinvented itself. That would be good. You're looking for your book topic, aren't you?

[Doug Lesmerises]

I am. Oh, I might have been. Shoot. I think I have the wrong numbers. I do have the wrong numbers. I was looking at opponent plays per game. Ohio State is still playing slow. You're right. You had the right number, 63. But I had 50. I had 58. That's how many plays.

[Bill Landis]

Opponents are playing even slower. Yeah, that'd be good. Do you think that'd be a big seller? I want you on a book tour. Rabinowitz is out doing a book tour. Every, every bookstore in Columbus has Bill Rabinowitz popping by to sign a book. Playing Slow How College Football Reinvented Itself by Bill Landis.

[Doug Lesmerises]

If we can do that. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

You'D write it slow, too. It takes you like six years to write it. All right, so that's. We just wanted to check in, talk a little ball with everybody. Is that all right? We just want to talk a little ball. Is that okay?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Fellas can't talk about ball anymore.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, like subscribe. Tell a friend about the Bill and Doug show. Find us on substack billanddugosu.substack.com Go buy a hoodie. Roback.com R-H-O-B-A-K.com Bad 20 is the code to get 20 off your first order. We will be. We'll have a big sub stack show. A big sub stack Q A show only for Substack subscribers. That's the one. We go long. That'll be up sometime Wednesday afternoon. If you're a substack subscriber, you can go listen to that. It's a good reason to join us on substack ucla Ohio State pick show on Thursday, national pick show on Friday. And the plan is to have a an extra show here on Thursday with a special guest that you guys will like.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And it's not Ari Wasserman.

[Bill Landis]

We said they would like it. No, we're just kidding. It's like our best show of the whole year is when Ari was on. Everybody loves Ari. We had love having Ari on but we have somebody lined up from the media that, that you guys will like and I, I just don't want to say it in case something goes wrong and we don't get to do it. But the plan is to have that Thursday morning. So thanks you guys as always for being here. For now, he's Bill Andis. I'm Doug Lay. Maurice. And that was the Bill and Doug show. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online and more personal info in more places that could expose you more to identity theft. But Lifelock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our US based restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed your money back. Don't face drained accounts, fraudulent loans or financial losses alone. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com Specialoffer terms apply. This is the story of the One. As head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes.

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[Bill Landis]

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[Bill Landis]

Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.