Indiana lessons; Ohio State respect and regret; final Buckeyes transfer portal view: Around the Shoe

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Indiana lessons; Ohio State respect and regret; final Buckeyes transfer portal view: Around the Shoe
Date: January 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Bill and Doug Show dives deep into the aftershocks of an unprecedented college football season where Indiana, led by head coach Kurt Signetti, captured a national title. Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by Andrew Gillis (cleveland.com) and Blake Biscardi (The Silver Bulletin) to unpack lessons from Indiana’s run, Ohio State’s own season of respect and regret, and a final review of Ohio State’s activity in the transfer portal. They also talk about the changing dynamics of the Big Ten, which now features Indiana as a legit contender, and look ahead to future marquee matchups and the next possible national champion from the Big Ten not named Michigan, Ohio State, or Indiana.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lessons from Indiana’s National Title Season

(Starts ~02:00)

• Coaching and Culture Above All

  • Andrew Gillis compares Kurt Signetti to Ted Lasso for his transformative effect:

    “Kurt Signetti might just be Ted Lasso... I think coaching is going to matter way more. And I think coaching is the be all, end all of this.” (02:28)

  • Special teams emphasis: Indiana under Grant Kane blocking 8 punts in 2 years shown as an example of meticulous coaching focus.

• Culture and Brotherhood in Modern CFB

  • Blake Biscardi credits Indiana’s locker room culture for their success, remarking how NIL and the transfer portal make team cohesion harder—but Indiana nailed it:

    “You saw these guys in Indiana just believe in each other... seeing their interactions and how much they actually loved each other and just the fun they were having... it was almost tangible.” (07:50)

• The Death of the Pure Blue-Chip Model

  • Bill Landis declares:

    “The blue chip ratio is dead. Margins and coaching are now the separator in college football.” (09:11)
    Indiana flipped a game they were outplayed in via special teams and a bold QB draw call—a detail-driven, well-prepared approach.

• Parity, Player Movement, and Talent Evaluation

  • Doug Lesmerises self-reflects on underestimating G5 uptransfers:

    “For a long time I have disrespected the lower levels of college football... The best 8 or 10 or 12 players [from a top G5] might be as good as almost any Power 4 team.” (13:41)

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2. Ohio State: Respect vs. Regret After Indiana’s Run

(Starts ~15:00)

• Balancing Respect for Indiana vs. Regret for OSU’s Own Shortcomings

  • Blake Biscardi sets the tone:

    “I think the respect is at 30, the regrets at 70. But that’s not to take anything away at all from Indiana... Ohio State didn’t lose playing their best.” (15:21)

  • Bill Landis is even harsher:

    “I think it could be 99% regret and 1% respect, just based off what was at stake for Ohio State this season.” (18:55)

• Doug Advocates for More Respect

  • Doug Lesmerises flips the narrative, giving 70% respect, 30% regret:

    “Indiana just had more of that winning juice. So I’m 70% well done, Hoosiers.” (19:08)

• Andrew Gillis: It’s About Indiana Making Plays

  • For him, it’s 80% respect, 20% regret:

    “It wasn’t like Ohio State just kind of gift wrapped the game for them... Indiana also made those plays.” (21:41)

• Notable Team Differences

  • Emphasis on Indiana’s bold calls vs. Ohio State’s conservatism (“Was Ohio State kicking the field goal?... Indiana was like, we can make this field goal, but we’re going to go for the win.”) (23:09)

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3. Ohio State Transfer Portal: Final Review

(Starts ~27:24)

• Portal Grade: Generally Positive, Cautions Remain

  • Bill Landis: “I’d give it like an 80, which is like a B-minus... They rebounded nicely... but probably left a little bit of meat on the bone.” (27:57)
  • Doug stresses, “The ins are fine, and the outs are not as bad as maybe people initially reacted to.” (29:55)
  • Andrew Gillis slightly lower at 77, focusing on lack of star/‘wow’ additions:

    “I don’t think you got anybody out of the portal that was like, whoa... But maybe Ohio State raised its floor pretty significantly.” (32:30)

  • Blake gives 82, spotlighting the addition of kicker Connor Hawkins:

    “We may have a kicker who may feel like Mike Nugent the first time he makes a 50-yarder.” (35:06)

• The Portal Approach: Moneyball vs. Betting on Upside

  • Doug/Andrew joke about the "Money Portal" philosophy—trading high-ceiling rookies (e.g., Aaron Scott, Fahim Delane) for experienced, older, but perhaps lower-upside contributors.

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4. Looking Ahead: Ohio State at Indiana, October 2026

(Starts ~37:34)

• Big Ten’s Marquee Matchup?

  • Doug: “Is it possible that Ohio State–Indiana could do a bigger rating than Ohio State–Michigan?” (38:13)
  • Bill: “No. Ohio State–Michigan got 18 million viewers. The next closest game was 13 million.” (39:36)

• Thematic Takes: Old Money vs. New Money

  • Andrew Gillis:

    “Old money vs. new money. It works in two ways. Obviously the old guard of Ohio State... Indiana’s the worst literal program as of two months ago. And now they’re at this level.” (40:29)

• Which Roster Construction Model Will Win Out?

  • Blake opts for “unwritten”:

    “There is a new story to write for both of these programs... can Indiana maintain this or will Ohio State reassert themselves?” (42:50)

• Game Stakes: Consequential

  • Bill warns against overhyping, but:

    “It does feel a bit consequential. If Indiana gets Ohio State again in Bloomington... then it starts to become a more serious conversation.” (44:46)

• Rivalry/Animosity Potential

  • “If Indiana beats Ohio State again... we see animosity going forward, because now we’re going to create a little bit of a rivalry here like it was with Michigan State.” (Blake, 49:09)

• Doug’s Wild Card NIL Suggestion:

  “If Ohio State has like $3 million in NIL sitting around, I got a way to spice this thing up... Alberto Mendoza, Ohio State Buckeye.” (49:09)

  • Bill & Andrew mock-scheming about bringing in Fernando Mendoza’s younger brother from the portal.

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5. Big Ten’s Next National Champion: Who’s Next (Non-OSU/UM/Indiana)?

(Starts ~50:01)

• Oregon: The Overwhelming Consensus

  • Andrew:

    “I think it’s Oregon... They are in that lump of teams that have the most pressure on them in the sport.” (50:01)

  • Blake agrees, noting their buildup and the “if-not-now-when” situation with Dante Moore at QB and favorable schedule.

• Penn State: The Contrarian Pick

  • Bill Landis:

    “My answer is Penn State. I think Matt Campbell’s a great coach... if you’re in the field and you’re a Power Four team, I think we now have to keep an open mind.” (54:07)

• Doug’s Lurkers, Always Ready

  • Jokes about throwing in five-to-seven teams (favorably mentioning Wisconsin, Northwestern, Washington), underscoring new parity and unpredictability:

    “If Indiana can do it, I actually think you can go through the Big Ten and say—maybe they could catch lightning in a bottle too.” (59:47)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Indiana’s Impact:

  • “Kurt Signetti might just be Ted Lasso... We’re all better for it.” — Andrew Gillis (02:28)
  • “The blue chip ratio is dead. Margins and coaching are now the separator.” — Bill Landis (09:11)
  • “You saw these guys in Indiana just believe in each other... the love, it was extremely evident right there, and it was almost tangible.” — Blake Biscardi (07:50)

• On Ohio State’s Season Reflection:

  • “If Ohio State, Indiana played 10 times, who would win? Maybe six.” — Blake (26:17)
  • “Indiana just had more of it, just had more of that winning juice.” — Doug (19:08)
  • “It wasn’t like Ohio State just gift-wrapped the game. Indiana also made those plays.” — Andrew (21:41)

• On Transfer Portal Moves:

  • “Money Portal. You’re writing Money Portal. We could make that into a movie.” — Doug, joking about Ohio State's approach (32:07)
  • “May have a kicker who may feel like Mike Nugent the first time he makes a 50-yarder.” — Blake (35:06)

• Looking to the Future:

  • “Old money vs. new money. I think that’s really fascinating.” — Andrew (40:29)
  • “If Indiana then beats Ohio State again in Bloomington—then we create a little bit of a rivalry here.” — Blake (49:09)
  • “My answer is Penn State... Matt Campbell’s coaching chops won’t allow them to dip.” — Bill (54:07)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Indiana’s National Title Lessons: 02:00–14:12
• Respect vs. Regret—OSU’s View of Indiana’s Run: 15:21–27:24
• Ohio State Transfer Portal Review: 27:24–37:08
• Ohio State @ Indiana 2026 Preview: 37:34–49:09
• Next Big Ten National Champion Not Named Ohio State, Michigan, Indiana: 50:01–60:00

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Tone and Highlights

The conversation is lively, analytical, and playful—replete with inside jokes, teases about making movies out of transfer strategy (“Money Portal”), and honest, sometimes self-critical assessments of Ohio State’s approach in a new era where the stuff that used to guarantee dominance (accumulating raw blue-chip talent) doesn’t necessarily work anymore.
Bill and Doug, along with their guests, sound energized by Indiana’s win—not just for the novelty, but for the way it signals a tectonic shift in what matters in college football: coaching, culture, margins, and adaptability.

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For Ohio State fans, college football obsessives, and Big Ten watchers, this episode is both an autopsy of a missed season and a sketch of exciting, uncertain years ahead.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lemurice and Bill Landis joined every week by two fantastic members of the Ohio State media. We usually do on Monday. We're doing it on Tuesday this week, Bill, because we wanted to wait and see what happened in the game on Monday night. And as we know, the Big Ten won a third straight championship. Show. We're here on Tuesday. Andrew Gillis of cleveland.com Blake Biscardi of the Silver Bulletin joining us. Andrew, you're back for your second trip around the shoe. Why did you decide to come back? I can't believe we got you again.

[C]

I can't believe you guys asked me to come back. I figured we, we talked enough Ohio Bobcats football the first time I went, yeah, they're done. Yeah, they're, they're not gonna. They're. You know what? We've had our Mac, Phil. I've heard enough about Frank Solich and Tim Alvin. We're done.

[D]

So, yeah, actually I've got a lot of questions about what's going on.

[C]

Oh, believe me, I do, too.

[B]

Actually, that's scrapped that. Scrap the show, Bill. This is actually maybe more interesting if Andrew has insight into this, what was going on in that hotel. So, Andrew, thanks for joining us again on around the Shoe. Blake Biscardi debut here. Blake, tell the people about the Silver Bulletin. And I'm sure a lot. I'm sure a lot of the folks here know this. Maybe some of them don't. Say hello to everybody.

[A]

Well, Bill and Doug, I appreciate you guys both having me today.

[D]

I'm looking forward to the show.

[A]

Silver Bulletin. We started four years ago and we have built this from zero. And it's been great getting to know the world of Ohio State media. Cover the Buckeyes and now we get to do all of Ohio State sports. So really excited to be here. You can find us on our website, tsilverbulliton.com and we've got you guys covered.

[B]

All right, so, you know, you're going to listen to Andrew, you're going to listen to Blake and then go consume their content elsewhere. We appreciate these guys sharing their expertise and their time. We'll start with Andrew. Five questions, five topics about Ohio State football. We're dipping in a little bit in the national college football. What's going on with the Indiana Hoosiers? We do have a game date for Ohio state, Indiana in 2026. We'll get to that in a moment. We'll start with this. Andrew Gillis, Indiana National Champion 16 0. Kurt Signetti. Everybody knows the story. Like, what's your number one lesson from Indiana's national title this year? Maybe it's a lesson that you learned as a consumer of college football, Something that Ohio State could have learned, something other programs could have learned, something maybe that we just all should have realized inside ourselves that Kurt Signitty, like, made us look inward, Andrew, you know what I'm saying? Like, it made us all better people. By the Hoosiers winning this national title. What do you got?

[C]

Kurt Signetti might just be Ted Lasso. You watch that show and you're like, I'm a better person because of it now. So I think we had that run with Signetti, and I think we're all.

[B]

Better people for it. And I think Nettie would punch Ted.

[C]

Lasso and Ted Lasso would smile and say, you know what?

[B]

Sure.

[C]

We all have our own demons, so I totally get it. The thing that I would say is that in this new kind of expanded world of college football that we now live in, I think coaching is going to matter way more. And I think coaching is.

[B]

Is the.

[C]

The be all, end all of this. I think everybody's going to point to, you know, oh, Indiana was 39 years old, and that's crazy, and that's not wrong. I think that matters. But I think if you were to go back and watch that Indiana Miami game, I think you would probably watch the lines of scrimmage and be maybe a little bit more surprised at, like, Reuben Bain and Mezador kind of got after Mendoza maybe more than I thought. Or, you know, Roman Hemby just could not block any one of those guys. And that, to me, was where talent matters.

[D]

Like, I'll be bold.

[C]

I'll say it. I think talent still matters. Like, I think. I think.

[D]

I think brave just.

[C]

I think talent's important. I don't think it's just if you're 24 years old, then you're great. Like, I think. I think that matters. So I think when you have these players that are older, they also got to be coached up, though. And. And that's the thing. Like, Indiana won the game with special teams. And I know one thing was because something that they. I mean, they didn't really do anything. The Miami kicker just missed the field goal. But Grant Kane is Indiana's special teams coordinator. Indiana blocked eight punts in two years, in 24 and five. And this is a coach that was at Coastal Carolina Mercer, James Madison with Signetti, and now at Indiana. And before that, the Colorado crush of the now defunct Arena Football League. This was like a. This was a guy who Signetti identified. Like Signetti is a great talent evaluator as player like personnel. But he was able to go out and get these guys that did things perfectly and did things exactly as they were coached up to do. Because I think if you go back and watch that game there, I know Indiana made a little, maybe a few more mistakes than we were used to seeing them make. They make one or two more mistakes, that game could have very strong in Miami's favor. And it's just all year it felt like Indiana played mistake free football or close to it. And when you get to this time of the year and. And as the talent kind of evens out a little bit, and maybe Ohio State's not as deep as they were, Georgia's not as talented as they once were, coaching is going to matter a lot. And that's, I think, one of the reasons. That's my number one lesson why Indiana won the title.

[B]

What's his name? Grant Crush. What's the guy's name?

[C]

Grant Kane.

[B]

Grant Kane. Did you. Did you just walk around with the name of the Indiana special teams coach in your head all season or did you look that up for the show?

[C]

Well, I would like to say it was the first one, but it was the second one.

[B]

Okay, that's some good research, Landis. How about these guys putting in the time? That's good. I didn't know they blocked eight punts in the last two years. And guess what? That super mattered. So, like, that's, like, that's. That's very well said, Andrew. Good point, Blake. What do you got here?

[A]

So I agree with Andrew that coaching matters, and you see that exactly as how that season went. But then I took a step back because I was in New York with these guys for the Heisman, and I looked at really how much culture matters, too. Like, I agree exactly what Andrew said with coaching, because it's true. And yes, talent matters. And I think we could all agree that there was more talented teams roster wise in Indiana this year, right? I mean, when we just look around college football. But to see the culture of these programs too, you know, in this era of the nil and the transfer portal, where guys are gonna walk in and say, hey, I need to make this much money or I'm gonna leave because I'm not starting this year, and they go around, it's like, okay, we might not get to build this program as much as we did before with the love of the university and have a Family and be here for three or four years. But you saw these guys in Indiana just believe in each other. I mean, when we were in that press room after Mendoza won the Heisman, he had about 10 or 12 of his teammates come in that room and surprise him to be there. And then that press conference, that Mendoza, when he's at the podium, and then Signetti right afterwards, it was like we were just flies on the wall to their locker room. And it was really cool. It just felt like we were all over for. Or even over for Thanksgiving. Like, they were talking back and forth to each other. I could have went and sat down, but I actually stood in the back and I was with a couple of the offensive linemen, just observing, just listening to them talk and just seeing the interactions and the smiles on their faces and just hearing them talk and say, you know what? You can see that on the silent and how much it translates. And with culture, we know, we hear Ryan Day talk about it all the time in the facility and the brotherhood and how much that matters and surrounding yourself with the right people. So just as much as Andrew is saying coaching matters, that comes right into people mattering. Like, Signetti went and got the right people, put them in the right places. He went and got the right players. And yes, Indiana was not the most talented team in college football this year, but they played disciplined football. They knew their assignments, they knew what they were supposed to do, and they did it because they also have that effect where they're playing for the guy next to them. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's all wrapped together, Blake. Right. I mean, like, the coaching creates the culture. The culture makes the coaching better. But that's interesting that you witnessed that, because, like, we saw it, like, on Twitter or something. Right. But, like, there was a real. You're saying there's real vibe that you sensed from Indiana just being in that Heisman room.

[A]

Yeah. And that was the time I honestly, I said to a couple of the Indiana guys, I was like, we will see you guys in Miami. Because I, at that point thought Ohio State was gonna, you know, go back into Death Star mode and get to the national championship game. I knew Indiana was going to get there from that moment, seeing it. And then we get to walk out to Times Square together. Take a pic. Mendoza's getting the photo op, you know, in Times Square. All of his teammates went out there. Just walking out of the marquee, just taking that block walk to Times Square. Just being there with those guys and seeing their interactions and how much they actually loved each Other. And just the fun that they were having. And yes, you're on a mountaintop high because your teammate just won the Heisman Trophy. He's like, no, this is a team award. This is a product of all these guys. And just seeing that, like you said, Doug, that vibe that was around them, that love, it was extremely evident right there, and it was almost tangible.

[B]

You see the Elmo impersonators out there in Times Square when you went out there with the Heisman.

[A]

I actually did. They came up and said, can we be in your shot?

[B]

You got to pay them. Don't do that.

[A]

No, that's how they get you. It was exactly.

[B]

Yeah. That cowboy guy in his underwear.

[D]

I was just gonna say they saw the naked cowboy. The naked cowboys all around.

[A]

I did see him. He was right in the parking garage just walking around. It was. All the scenes were in New York. It was the full experience, plus the snow.

[B]

You're seeing a naked cowboy in a parking garage. You gotta run, bro. That's not. Be careful in there. Landis, what's your lesson? You're a baldower.

[D]

Gillis kind of took the words out of my mouth a little bit. I think the lesson is that the, like, the blue. The blue chip ratio is dead. Margins and coaching are now the separator in college football. And I think, like, even, like, in a game where Indiana, like, frankly, got outplayed. If you look at, like, all the underlying numbers, Indiana got outplayed by. By Miami, and Miami won the line of scrimmage, and Indiana flipped the game because of special teams, because of a quarterback draw play that they run often, but they change. Specifically for this game. Indiana is the most. How do you say it? Best coached. I was gonna say most well coached. That doesn't sound right. Best coached team in America. The most prepared team in the country. I think week after week, that was the separator for them. And. And that. I'm not just saying that to put all the praise on the coaches because the players have to be able to. To pick up on that stuff, right? They have to be able to take that coaching and execute it, put it on the field, all these things that the coaches say. So it's not merely a coaching point, but the details, I think, matter more than ever as the talent gets flattened out in the sport. And I don't think that's going to change. And I think Indiana will kind of serve as the shining, shining example of how much of a separator the details can be.

[B]

I will say I think there's some people who say that Nick Saban got out just in time as the sport flattens and you can't stockpile talent the same way. I think what Signetti is doing, Bill, it makes me think a little. You know, I think Saban would found a way because if now we're in the margins, we're in the details, we're in the best coaching. I almost like it would have been a challenge for Nick Saban to stick around and be like, okay, maybe I don't have quite as many first round picks, but I want to try to out coach you. Right. Because it's interesting. Now we all, everyone does the coaching list and Signetti is going to be the top of every coaching list. But sometimes best coaches are really just like the guys who are in charge of the most talent. Talent. And I wonder if we'll really dig in and try to evaluate coaching now because as you said, it's maybe going to have even more of a direct. You think it's gonna have a more direct impact on winning?

[D]

Yeah, I, you know, maybe you would still lean, lean toward talent, like if you're assigning percentages. But I think the percentage, the coaching and details matter is, is increasing and will continue to increase. And that was always the thing like, like Saban's incredibly detailed, right. Like he, I, I think he's almost underappreciated some because I think you just get to the point where they have the best roster. Of course he won all the time. It's like, no, this guy is like maniacal about the details. I think Urban Meyer was the same way. But I also think there was, you know, we were in a period with college football where guys who weren't great coaches sometimes won national titles because they had really good rosters or they had like individual transcendent talents at a key position like quarterback and still, and still won it. And I, I, I have a hard time seeing that happening anymore with, with the way that the roster construction is going. I really do think you have to be on it as a coach and as a coaching staff to separate yourself and win national titles.

[B]

Now moving forward, you can just say Edwards and Gene Chiswick. You just say their names.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You know, I gotta stockpile the town and I don't care about no margins, no details. Let's do mine is, I think I for a long time have like disrespected the lower levels of college football. And I will say, just double checking, Indiana is like the guys who mattered who played for Them there aren't as many. I was like, man, there's so many like, up transfers on this team. There's actually not as many as I remembered. There are like six JMU guys who matter among their guys who play Aiden Fisher and d' Angelo Pons and guys like that. There's a Western Kentucky guy, but there's a lot of other sideways transfers, a lot of other power four transfers. But. But I will say what these JMU guys have done has made me, I think, believe and realize that, you know, Obviously the best G6 teams, they're not as good as the best Power 4 teams, but their best 8 or 10 or 12 players, I think might be as good. Right. And I think this is a little proof of that. And so it puts me on alert both for guys like that who are transferring to Power 4 programs, but also just when you think about those teams, if they can put their best players in position that to maybe win them games. Will a G5 team win a playoff game? I think they will one day. It, you know, we. You don't want to overdo it with that Indiana stuff, but like, d' Angelo Pons opened my eyes a little bit and it makes me think sort of like, how. How does this happen? We know how it happened. It's like really talented players who are a step slow, a couple inches short, a couple, you know, 10 or 15 pounds light, that kind of thing, but there's some, like, really good players there. And then it took like, these guys stepping up to Indiana to. For the whole world to realize how good they are. Like, I don't know, Bill. Like, there probably were guys like this and maybe this, like, they showed up in the NFL draft, but. And even what Stephen Daly did moving up from the Mac this year for. For Indiana, you know, like, they're out there. They've probably always been out there. And if they would have had an opportunity in the past to move up and, and try to go contribute to a. A power conference team, maybe they would have done it. But that's not. That's on me. My bad. I didn't realize how good some of those guys were.

[D]

Well, welcome to the land of G6, G6 appreciators. I really thought the joke was right there for you to talk about Lewis Moore, Indiana safety, as an up transfer from the sec and you didn't take it.

[B]

You know, they're scrounging around, like, with lesser programs. I got a guy from Tennessee, you know, they're looking. Yeah. Oh, I'm off my game. Also, the south can cram it. All right, Blake Biscardi, we'll start with you. Question number two. This is the respect versus regret meter, which everyone is also free to apply to their daily lives at any waking moment. Respect versus regret. Oh, baby. That was a 90 regret 100 there. For Ohio State fans thinking about this Indiana national championship, how much should Ohio State as a program, Ohio State fans look at Indiana and like, be like, yeah, man, respect. Like, they got this done. They beat Ohio State along the way. And how much is it like, oh, like watching that game, watching Indiana do this. I can't believe Ohio State didn't do it. So it has to add up to 100. What percent of it is regret? What percent of it is respect?

[A]

I spent a lot of time thinking about this, actually, because I think there.

[D]

Is a lot of regrets.

[A]

Yeah, I think there's a lot of regret for Ohio State because of the fact that they left something to be desired in their mind on the field when they played Indiana. So if I'm putting the numbers on it like you're asking, I think the respect is at 30, the regrets at 70. But that's not to take anything away at all from Indiana, because I think Ohio State actually is the only program in the country that could have it tilt this way. I think everyone else has to have more respect than regret for Indiana. But for Ohio State, the reason they have to have more regret is because they feel like they left something on the field. The miss field goal they didn't convert in short yardage. All those kinds of things just go into that game. Ohio State didn't lose playing their best. So I think for Kurt Signetti, yes, you have to give them a ton of credit. He's come in and gone 272 in the last two years. 16 0. National champions rebuilt the losingest program in college football to now being national champions. It is a phenomenal story. It's going to be one of the best in college football. They may even make a movie out of it one day. But just from the Ohio State perspective, leaving something on the field, losing, not playing your best, is the reason they have to have that, that 70 in that regret column. To me, just because of how that game went. And then also, I think we all believed Ohio State was going to get a shot against Indiana again in the national championship game. And then you lose to Miami by the same way and you didn't play your best again. You couldn't block Hakeem Mazador and Ruben Bane and that Miami defense. And then because we Saw from the press box, receivers were running free. I wasn't really mad at the play calling from Ryan Day and Ohio State in that game. They didn't have time to execute, and then they don't get that shot in the end. And you're like, wow, we lost two games and we didn't play it our best in the. In those moments.

[B]

Okay. All right, so that's 70 regret, 30 respect. Landis, where are you?

[D]

Is this. Is this what it should be or what it is?

[B]

I don't think what it is. I think what it is. But you all. You may answer too. You may. You may answer both ways.

[D]

I think what it should be. If you wanted to, you know, live in a world where you weren't driving yourself crazy. I think something like Blake's 30, 70, or maybe even a 20, 80 is. Or excuse me, a 40, 60 is. Is probably a good place to land, but I think it's like 10 respect and 90 regret is how high? Like, like respect. Like, because it's hard. Like, Ohio State just went through this. It's difficult to. That many postseason games. They won 16, 0. They like, they beat you. Like you.

[C]

You.

[D]

You have to tip your cap a little bit.

[A]

But it.

[D]

The overwhelming feeling. Feeling is. Is no doubt primarily regret about feeling like the game was right there for you to win against Indiana if. If you make a field goal and like one or two other plays go your way. Feeling like the game, even though you struggled in the first half against Miami, was right there. Like, I bet there was a lot, especially in the first half of the national championship of Ohio State. Fans thinking to themselves, like, I can't believe we lost this Miami team is Miami, like, could not move the ball against Indiana, thinking themselves like, boy, we really blew it losing to that team. I think there was probably more respect for. For Indiana maybe than there was Miami, just based on how. How the season went. But the season ends with two teams you lost to playing for the national championship. And in both of those losses, there was absolutely a realistic path for you to win those games. And I think sort of like up and down roster talent. Yours. Yours is better than those two teams. And he just sort of like got out coached and out executed in both games and sort of made crippling mistakes that. That were sort of your undoing. So that's like nothing but regret. That's all.

[B]

If.

[D]

If I would honestly, I think it could be 99 regret and 1% respect just based off of kind of what was at stake for Ohio State this season. And. And Sort of like the slim margins with which it got away from them.

[B]

Okay, okay. I'm going the other way and I'm trying to think now, listen. I mean, there's angry fans, right? So we get that. But this is like a little bit of a step back, maybe like a week from now. I think there's enough things that Indiana did, for instance, on Monday night that Ohio State just hasn't done, didn't do this season, that Ohio State fans are kind of accustomed to Ohio State not doing it doesn't mean that they're necessarily incapable of doing it, but they don't. Would Ohio State have blocked a punt in a game like that to swing the momentum? I. I don't think so. Is it like, does anybody think that's what Ohio State is right now? Would Ohio State have gone for it on 4th and 4 and called a quarterback draw and had their quarterback shake off a huge hit and dive in the end zone like Superman? I mean, I, I guess it could. I guess they could. I don't know that anybody thinks, like, that's what Ohio State was about this year. And so I think part of it is as you guys are talking about culture and coaching and that it's not just the most talent wins in this era anymore. I think that's a realization maybe for Ohio State fans in the program of, like, well, we, we talk about margins with Ohio State a lot. Like, does Ohio State win on the margins? Not really. That's kind of not what they're the best at. Kurt Schnetti wins on the margins. Dan Landing at times went on the market, wins on the margins. I think Ohio State needs to do that more. So I think realizing the short, not even shortcomings, it's just kind of not how they go about their business. And maybe they have to change going forward. I'm going to say 70% respect, 30% regret, because it's sort of like, man, like, I don't think Ohio State would have done that and that Miami did enough of the same things to Indiana that it did to Ohio State. And it was problems for both teams. But Indiana didn't make the crippling mistake on a pick six. Like, they avoided the crippling mistake. They went and like, got. Got it on a fourth down call when they needed it. Like, they avoided the killer mistakes and they went after it when they had to. In a way that Ohio State had the ball against Miami, down 17, 14 with a chance to drive for a go ahead score. They didn't do it. It's like okay, but like Fernando Mendoza kind of did that. So then that's a little more tip of the cap to me of like maybe, maybe there's something. Not that Ohio State was missing something necessarily, but Indiana just had more of it, just had more of that winning juice. And so I'm 70%, well done Hoosiers. Even if I'm the most die hard Ohio State fan and only 30, saying, Man, I wish we could have done that. Andrew, where are you?

[C]

Yeah, I'm actually a little, I'm on Doug side. I'm actually a little bit higher even than Doug.

[A]

I'm.

[C]

I'm at like 80, 20. It should be 80 20. Respect to kind of regret. Because I think the regret comes from the fact that if you got back on the field with Miami and Indiana and you're an Ohio State fan or you're an Ohio State player, coach or whatever, you're not, you're not afraid, you're not looking at that team going, we're gonna have to really play very well to beat these guys. You're gonna say, if we clean up our mistakes, I think we probably will win this game. And I think that that's fairly reasonable. Right? Like, I don't think that that's an insane thing to say, but this is also the way that football works. And like, it wasn't to me, like, oh, did Ohio State make every single possible play in the Big Ten championship game against Indiana? Absolutely not. Like, there was a lot they left out there, but Indiana also in turn made those plays. It wasn't like Ohio State just kind of gift wrapped the game for them like that, that third down to Charlie Becker to clinch the game. Like, where was that for Ohio State? It just didn't really happen. Right? Like, where was there? You're at the goal line and you send nine tight ends out there and the plays called for Bennett Christian to go in the end zone. Well, Indiana said, we're going to throw it to one of our best players on one of our best plays. And they made the play. And that to me is why I think it should be respect. And I think frankly, like Ohio State fans can look at this and I think it's a little bit easier than like if, if Penn State or Michigan or somebody had won this.

[B]

Right.

[C]

You know, it's a little bit easier to say, you know what? Good job, you did well. Congratulations. Because. And I think if Ohio State fans were to look at this, they were to say, you know, what, what, what Kurt Signetti has done is very impressive. Right. You know Ohio State fans should know better than anybody that in a 12 team playoff, it is very hard to go undefeated. It is very hard to go to Oregon in the middle of the season and win a football game. And Indiana did that. Like, Indiana did things this year that Ohio State had the opportunity to do, whether it was this year or last year. Indiana went on the road and not only did they beat Oregon, they kind of smacked him around and, and they won that game by 10 and then they got back on the field with him. Indiana won by a lot. So there, there were moments that Indiana made, there were plays at Indiana made that just. I think you just kind of have to say, you know what they had. Like you said, Doug, they had it and we didn't. And sure, we didn't make the plays that we needed to, but Indiana also did, like you said, the block punt, the quarterback draw, like, forget the quarterback draws. Ohio State going for it on 4th and 5, like, as Ohio State kicking the field goal. I mean, I know that's a touchy subject with this fan base, but, I mean, maybe you do. But it's not out of, we're gonna go win it. It's, it's not out of, you know, let's, let's, you know, let's flex and say, let's, let's show our muscle here. I think it's a. Oh, man, we just don't think our kicker can do it. So we have to go for it. Indiana was like, we can make this field role, but we're gonna go for the win. We're gonna try to win the football game. So I, I think it should be much more respect than regret and just kind of how it played out.

[D]

I feel like you guys just spent five minutes describing why it should be regret.

[B]

Well.

[D]

Like, we don't have the winning juice. We don't win on the margins. Heck of a job. Indiana is not the way that.

[B]

But, but I think to me the regret is more like, man, if they played it again, Ohio State would win. I think it's more like Indiana had something that Ohio State in this season did not possess in the same way, not necessarily that Indiana had it for a half or a game or a quarter. And if you played it again, it would be different. Like if you.

[D]

Bill, if you think that's true. But okay, but I don't think that elicits respect or elicits like envy and anger and regret.

[B]

Well, it's just, it's just how you deal with your own personal shortcuts. I always take if Someone has something that I don't. I just feel like I tip the cap. It's like, hey man, you got it. And I don't because I think the, the more regret to me. Like Blake, if, If you thought to your. If Ohio State and Ohio State fans really think if we played Indiana 10 times we'd win eight and we just, we missed the field goal. We screwed it up in, in the Big Ten championship game. But like we're better than them. We should have won then. That to me would lead you more to regret. I don't know that. I think that maybe it would be five, five. But I don't think that Indiana got lucky to beat Ohio State, Even though a 27 yard missed field goal was lucky for Indiana. So like, you know what I mean? Do you. If Ohio state, Indiana played 10 times, who. What would it be? Blake, what do you think?

[A]

Well, now that I'm thinking about this, Omar Cooper got hurt in that game too. So I almost. I also wonder how many. Yeah, like you're Saying out of 10, I would think Ohio State would win more than they would lose. So maybe six or probably six times Ohio State wins that game, maybe seven. Just because the Omar Cooper effect. You don't really know because we didn't really see that full sample size. But I think the. Also Indiana made the plays that Ohio State couldn't make and it's normally Ohio State would make those plays. Where play the national championship game last year. You have third and 11, you throw the bomb to Jeremiah Smith. Where was that play for Ohio State in the Big Ten championship game and in the Cotton bowl, which is right to your guys's point. And I think if Ohio State got another opportunity to play Indiana, we would see those plays. We wouldn't see the multiple tight end sets. We wouldn't see the throw to Bennett Christian. We wouldn't see the field goal attempt. Honestly, I don't think we would have seen another field goal attempt. Ohio State would have found ways to bring those X plays out like Ryan Day talks about all the time to make it. So that way you're not leaving it to chance because last year it was all leave no doubt and Ohio State left out. And so I think playing again, they would leave no doubt.

[B]

So just to go feel free in this discussion with your friends and family in life, the respect regret meter, feel free to apply it as you see fit. Bill Landis, Question number three. We'll dig back in exclusively on Ohio State for this one. In the end, maybe there's going to be like another ad. Who knows? Like, there. If you're in the portal, you can still sign with somebody. 31 Ohio State players out, 15 in, right? No. 16 in, 31 out, 16 in. In the end, scale of one to 100, one's bad, 100's good. What do you think of everything that happened with Ohio State in the transfer portal?

[D]

I think I'd give it like an 80, which is like a B minus, I think. I think, by and large, they did fill their needs. I. I do think there's an element of. And I guess they would say it's just player evaluation, but like, I kind of said this last year, too. Like, I felt like they were trying to play Moneyball a little bit with some of the holes they were trying to fill, and I think maybe they're trying to do that again with some of the additions that they made. The one thing they did, like, clearly do is swap out what would have been basically nothing but projection and inexperience and youth for experience and production, which I think the sport is probably telling you that's the way you should go. So, like, I. I do think they did a nice job with that, and I don't think there was a glaring need necessarily that they left unaddressed, so. So they get passing marks for that as well. I. I do think they perhaps could have landed a bigger fish here or there, taken a bigger swing on a player or two that maybe would have been more of an upside play than a production play. And like, Chaz Coleman is an example, but I'm not merely talking about him. You know, there were. There were some other guys who were, like, kind of like bigger names in the portal at positions that they added that I. Maybe they could have swung a little bigger.

[B]

But.

[D]

But I. I also sort of like, see this, See the vision for the most part, with. With almost every guy they've added. But then I. And then I factor in the losses. I think they're probably three or four losses of the 31 who left that you feel a little salty about, too. So I don't think it was bad. I think, you know, as all those guys were going into the portal early, and you sort of have all the exits before you have anybody come in. Everyone was looking around going, like, what the hell's happening? They're losing their entire roster. I do think they. They rebounded nicely from that, but probably left a little bit of meat on the bone, which is leaving me at like, an 80.

[B]

Okay, so I. I'm probably about an 80 also, but I Originally was maybe. Maybe. Maybe lower than that. But then I was trying to think, because I do think, like, we've gone through the cycle now. Of course, fans were really upset when they lost so many guys early. Then they started adding guys late. Then I think people kind of got enthused about some of the guys they added. And now I'm kind of cautioning, like, don't get too enthused about the guys that they're adding, because, again, I don't think it's Caleb Downs and Quinton Judkins, but I really was trying to think of. I think it's mostly going to be determined by. Is there. Are there a couple guys, like you said, three or four who left that are going to go be all Americans? And I don't know. And so that pushed me back, like, in the end, who are the guys they lost the 31 out that really were like, oh, man, I don't know about that. That could really be a problem. And it probably starts with Quincy Porter. And if Quincy Porter has 81 catches for 1300 yards for Notre Dame and Ohio State, Notre Dame play in the playoff, and Quincy Porter goes 9 for 163. And it's like, yeah, that really mattered. Let's jack up. Like, you get a bad Portal rating for that. But I. For him, Delane might be really good. Myelin Graham might be really good. Jar Quest Carter might be really good. But I. I think there's enough, like, uncertainty with almost everybody that I think the ends are fine. And I think the outs are not as bad as maybe people initially reacted to because they were highly rated recruits. Right. But I do wonder if Quincy Porter is gonna, like, unlock CJ Carr at Notre Dame, and then, in fact, that could come back to bite Ohio State directly if those two teams wind up in the playoff again, like they did in national championship game last year. So I'll be around in 82. Andrew, where are you?

[C]

Well, first off, Bill, who. Who's Scott Hatterberg? Then if Ohio State was trying to moneyball this thing, because Hunter.

[D]

Hunter Wilson, I was.

[C]

I was gonna say with Earl Little Jr.

[D]

He gets on base.

[C]

Yeah, he gets on.

[B]

Right. Yeah. The Blind Portal. What's yours called? Like, what's like. No, not. That's the other one. That's the one I'm getting the Michael Lewis mixed up.

[D]

Money Portal.

[B]

Money Portal. Money. You're writing Money Portal. We can make that into a movie. Oh, yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's not that hard to play nickel. Earl. Tell him. Yeah, it's incredibly.

[D]

We're Recreating Will Cosmeric in the aggregate.

[B]

Brad Pitt as Mark Pantoni. Is that what we're talking about here? Mark Bantoni in the office, just like, like, crunching numbers on spreadsheets? Can we make that exciting? We'll find a way.

[C]

Okay. Yeah, I'm a little bit lower. I'm at like a 77, so I think it's C plus range because I. I don't think you got anybody out of the portal that was like, whoa, like, like you said. Caleb Downs, quench on Judkins. I'm not even sure that you got somebody out of the portal that's like, this is immediately clearly an all Big Ten. Lock it in. This guy's one of the best players in the conference. Players. Like, I think you got a lot of help. Like, I think the. The two defensive backs a little and more are gonna help. You know, the Smith. I think it's rasal. Like, you added them. Mason Williams, obviously incredibly well educated Ohio University. He's coming up here to be as Merrick 2.0. Like, I. I think John Walker, defensive tackle. Like, you feel good about some of those guys, but I don't think there's like a.

[B]

A wow.

[C]

And that's. That's, I think, the interesting part of the portal moving forward because the market is very interesting right now because it's just so up and down. And, you know, if Ohio State wants to say, well, we're not going to pay X amount of dollars for Quincy Porter, well, we're not going to pay X amount of dollars for Aaron Scott or for Fahim Delane, that's. That's fine. That's your call. But when you go bring in a guy who's in his fifth year of college football, who's solid, maybe doesn't have the physical traits of a Fahim Delane, Like, I think if we were to all say, like, hey, the two defensive backs that they brought in, like, with. With more and little. Like, I think we would all probably say that Aaron Scott and Fahim Delaine's ceiling is higher. And it's not just because some recruiting service gave them an extra star. It's because their athletic traits are probably a little bit different and their upside is probably a little bit higher. So that's the thing that I'm kind of interested in is, you know, could you have some misses? 100%. But if Ohio State doesn't want to play, doesn't want to pay, that, that's totally cool. But if that's what the market is to Keep a player like that, you have to weigh, I guess, a floor versus ceiling conversation because I think Ohio State raised its floor pretty significantly with the Portal. But I don't know if they lost or I don't know how much they lost. Kind of an upside because Aaron Scott, I mean, Oregon comes to Columbus and Aaron Scott might play for Oregon and you would think, wow, wouldn't that guy look really, really great?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Across from Devin Sanchez. And that might just be something you have to live with.

[B]

Yeah. Blake, what do you got?

[A]

I was with you guys with the, the 80 and then I bumped it up to an 82.

[D]

Just.

[A]

I'll go a little bit off the beaten path here with Connor Hawkins. I think we may have a kicker who may feel like Mike Nugent the first time he makes a 50 yarder. You know, just for the sole fact that Ohio State now has a kicker who can make one from 50 yards. I think it's just a nice thing to have in the back pocket and then, yeah, just go, Connor Hawkins.

[B]

Jersey sales. Blake, come on, we're gonna. There's like eight year olds all over Columbus walking around in Hawkins jersey. It's gonna be wild, right?

[A]

Buy stock now. Like that's, that's the advice here. And I think Aaron Scott and Quincy Porter were my two of the guys who left where I was like, ah, you know, didn't like to see that. But again it's, it's market. They want to go somewhere else. We'll see. Terry Moore coming in, I think is going to be a great addition. His, he's a proven commodity. I think, Bill, that was to your point where you're making the roster a little bit older. That's why I was okay with that. Just by how it went. They, again, there wasn't one that left where you're like, man, that's really, really going to hurt. And there wasn't one that came in where you're like, okay, this guy's going to be elite All American. But there's potential energy on both sides for that to happen. And that's the risk with guys who walk out and guys who come. And that's the risk of buying stock. How much is it actually gonna increase over time? So I'm sitting at about an 82. I just, I really like the kicker because Ohio State has lost a lot of games recently because of a kicker or a missed field goal. And I think getting reliability there is going to be a great thing for Ohio State. But again, the lights get brighter, so it's not the same in Waco as it is in Columbus. So, yes, he has made them before, he needs to continue to make them again.

[B]

I got a plan for the first quarter of the opener for Ohio State. Julian saying, Jeremiah Smith, Bo Jackson, this experienced offensive line moving the Buckeyes down the field. They cross midfield, they get a second and six at the 35 yard line, and Ryan Day sends Connor Hawkins on the field and says, let's drill this 52 yarder right now, eight minutes into the season, and show people what we're all about. Bang. People would storm the field. Let's go.

[C]

Okay, when you're talking about the jersey sales, I thought of that, like, scene from Invincible where Papali's like, driving his car and he stops dead in his tracks when he sees a kid wearing his jersey. That's gonna be Hawkins. Welcome to Ohio State moment. We're gonna ask him that in the spring or the summer and he'd be.

[D]

Like, thing that definitely happened, right?

[C]

We're gonna, we're gonna see. We're gonna be like, hey, how's. How's Columbus treating you? And he's gonna be like, I. I can't believe they're selling jerseys of a kicker. Yeah.

[B]

And. And he's going to find out that Connor Hawkins is going to walk up to that kid wearing his jersey, he's going to ask him his name, and he's going to say, my last name is Landis. And it's going to be Bill Landis outfitting his son in kicker jerseys because he's sick of his field goals. Number four. We have this announced, right? It's official. The Big Ten was so excited. Ohio State at Indiana on October 17th. Go book your hotel rooms right now. They're all fifteen hundred dollars already. Two defending national champions. We talked about this on the post game show last night, Bill. I believe the last time that the last two defending national champions met in the regular season hasn't happened since at least the Ohio State Michigan game this season. So, like, it's not that big a deal actually. I don't know.

[D]

We're getting so excited.

[B]

Ohio State, Indiana. Describe this. What's a word or phrase to describe this game? I'm going to start here. I've already called it the game of the century 400 times, so I'm not going to call it that. And I know Bill thinks that I made up this question just so I could say game of the century. Right now. I'm just throwing this out there and I, I always think I. It's like, I don't Pretend to know exactly how the TV network draft works. Right. But Fox always has the first pick. I don't think Fox would. Whatever they would have to do. Like, they're not going to give up Ohio State Michigan. But if this was really like a straight TV draft, would you take Ohio State Indiana over Ohio State Michigan? Is my phrase for this, the number one pick. Because of what? Like, if Kurt Signetti has captured the imagination of people and I don't know how good Michigan's going to be. Kyle Whittingham's a good coach, but like, there's the rivalry and the tradition and all the things it does a great rating. Is it possible that Ohio State Indiana could do a bigger rating than Ohio State Michigan? Gillis, you think that's possible?

[C]

I think so. I think it's possible. Yeah. Like, Ohio State Michigan always does numbers every year. But if. If Michigan's not that great, I. There is going to be a level of excitement with Indiana that I think is very, very new for just the common college football fans.

[B]

If they were really just doing like the TV draft, Bill, and it was just like networks sitting around, if that's what, would Ohio State Indiana make Sense as the first pick?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

No. Okay. Ohio State Michigan got 18 million and the next closest game this year was 13 million.

[A]

No.

[B]

I wonder how Kurt said that he's going to be viewed next year. Now the other thing that. And I don't think Indiana's gonna step back, but it's like, what if Indiana lost a game or whatever, you know, by mid October? Okay, we're not there. Are we ever, like, what are we just never going to be there? That Ohio State Michigan is the first round, is the first pick in a TV draft in the Big Ten. Free eternity, Bill, Is that what you're saying?

[D]

Yeah, I think. I think a game will have to like, demonstrate its ability to. To supersede that before anybody assumes it'll happen. That's a pretty massive number for regular season football game.

[B]

Okay, we'll see. We'll watch Fox screw this up anyway, so. Okay, so number one pick was mine. Bill already said that's wrong. Gillis, what's your word or phrase to describe this?

[C]

Yeah, old money versus new money. And I think it works in two different ways. I think there's like the. Obviously the old guard of Ohio State, most consistent program in college football history, like, are consistently good. There's Indiana program who was the worst literal program as of like two months ago. And now they're at this level of winning a national Championship and you have this kind of like old school guard versus the new school guard. I think that that's just really fascinating because when this Big Ten merged together, I think we all kind of looked at it and went, wow, they're adding USC and Oregon, and those are two teams that could really, you know, help out. Obviously, nobody saw Indiana coming, but, like, there was definitely this idea of who is Ohio State's kind of biggest foe now. Like with, you know, Michigan's here, but then who's next? And Indiana might be it. And that's, that's a crazy world. But it's also kind of, I think, how the rosters are constructed, which is very interesting to me. Like, if we're going to say that Indiana did this by getting old and by being veteran and experienced, and I think like three of their offensive linemen had like over 2,000 snaps, you know, before the title game, like, that matters. But they also throwing out like Nick Marsh and they also did a bunch of what they had been doing in the portal and Ohio State kind of did that. Like Ohio State kind of went after that and they, they kind of chased that a little bit. So there's, there's definitely this changing of, of mentality for Ohio State. Indiana's a little bit older. Ohio State's trying to get older. Then you pair into fact, like Chris, Chris Henry Jr. Is going to be one of the highest paid players on the field. And how does that match up? Would you rather have X amount of dollars on Chris Henry Jr. Or X amount of dollars on Nick Marsh? Would you rather have that, the old guy or the new guy? Like, I don't know. And that, that is something that I think can reasonably be debated because, well, you can. Oh, we'll just spend X amount of dollars on Nick Marshall. We'll just do that three times and it'll be the same thing as having Chris Henry Jr. Or a player like that for three years. Does Indiana start to look at a guy like Manchin sales, who's a five star from Indiana in the 27 recruiting class at receiver, and go, yeah, he's not old, but we got to take that guy because he's that good. So this new money kind of thing, I think it goes in a different way, a couple different ways. And I'm just. That game's going to be fascinating for many, many narrative reasons.

[B]

Yeah. Well, we'll be there. We'll be there. Blake, what do you got?

[A]

I want to go right off of what Andrew said, but I'm going to use the word Unwritten for that because 2024, Ohio State beats Indiana. They go win a national championship. This year comes along, Indiana beats Ohio State. They go win a national championship. Last two champions, they're going to be on the field. Dichotomy of ways they got there. So Indiana's done it. Being old, Ohio State has done it just in its traditional power way. And now there's this gap in the Big Ten here because Penn State, we don't know what they're going to be. Michigan has fallen off a little bit with Sharon Moore and then Oregon's just kind of sitting there saying, yes, we're around, but we don't win in big games. So there's room to be. Who's going to be Ohio State's biggest foe? Who's gonna be that number two team in the Big Ten or right now, Indiana has beaten Ohio State. So Indiana is number one in the Big Ten. These are the two. And which model is going to be better for the future of the sport? Kyle Parker is going to come in as a transfer from lsu, pulling him up from the sec. And then you have Chris Henry on the other side and he's a five star recruit that you're going to pay a lot of money for. Which one of those receivers just on your team is going to be better. And just of how Indiana has constructed its roster with Kurt Signetti. Now, can they do it again? I think Ohio State left so much to be desired, so they feel like that story was left unwritten for them. But now for Indiana, you're running a new chapter. You've just accomplished what you wanted to accomplish in those two years with your transfer players. Can you do that again? Can you maintain that now? And I think that's why I'm going to use the word unwritten, because there is a, a new story to write for both of these programs starting next year. And that's going to be a great barometer check in October.

[B]

Should we start calling them the G7 and just lump in the SEC with the Mountain west and the American and just the Power three? I mean, really, why are we fooling ourselves here? It's a new era. Bill, what's your answer here?

[D]

I think like I. There is a possibility to make too much of this game. But, but I, I do think it.

[B]

Is sort of not on this show.

[D]

Well, I just think it's like any regular season game generally we, we tend to assign stakes to regular season games that are often overblown. And I'm sure that'll happen with, with this game when we get there, but it does feel a bit consequential. So, like, that'll. That'll be my word. Like, we've had this ongoing conversation about, like, has Indiana superseded Ohio State as the best program in the Big Ten? And my answer to that is like, of course not. Like, you don't. You don't do that in a year. You don't. You don't start on doing all of Ohio State's historical success because you. You beat them for the first time since the 80s. But Indiana is on a trajectory that I think everyone needs to acknowledge. And if they get Ohio State in Bloomington in October, coming off of a national title in a season in which it beat the Buckeyes in the Big Ten championship, then I think it starts to become a little bit more of a serious conversation. Or even if it's not, Indiana is asserting itself at the top of the Big Ten long term. Maybe it's just that Ohio State's claim to that position is perhaps a little shakier than we thought it was. Right. And whether that's, you know, Oregon lingering, we'll see what Penn State becomes, like. Like Blake mentioned, I don't think, really, I don't think Michigan's going anywhere. So there was kind of like a. I know, Michigan. Michigan, one of three years in a row. But, like, the historical assumption that Ohio State is just the class of the Big Ten. And I think with the way that the sport is changing, that was always going to be difficult to hold on to. But a game like this in Bloomington, with all of sort of the extenuating circumstances, I do think can be a bit of, like a. Like a touchstone for. For Ohio State in terms of, like, what exactly is it going to be in this new version of college football?

[B]

I'll be really interested into how this feels when we get to it, because is it. Is it an okay comparison? Bill? 2013, Ohio State loses to Michigan State in the Big Ten championship game. And then that trip to east Lansing in 2014 was a pretty important, like, Ohio State gets back on its feet revenge game, arguably the best game J.T. barrett ever played. Like, is this. And this is, you know, a Michigan State in 2013 didn't go on to win the national title. Like, can this. You're coming off a Big Ten championship game loss to a team. Like, I think this will feel pretty big for Ohio State, like, to reassert itself.

[D]

I think the only. I think you're right. The only thing that gives me a little bit of pause is just the way rosters change now, like, yeah, especially in Indiana side, there's gonna be a lot of new faces. Like, the jerseys and the coaches are the same, but it's a lot of new players. So I don't, I don't know. That 2014 game in East Lansing was pretty charged up. This game will be, but I wonder if they'll. And like, there was like, you could like sort of like feel the animosity there too. I wonder, I wonder if, if this might be lessened at all just because of the way that the roster's turn over now.

[B]

But do you think, Blake, do you think there's animosity? Like, do you think Ohio State's going to be like, we want to get Kurt Signetti even though a lot of the players will be different? Do you think, like, they'll be posting his photo on dartboards around the Woody going into that game?

[A]

I think animosity might be too strong of a word for that. But I mean, I, I do think Ohio State's competitive. I mean, they want to win the game. So, yes, I just don't think it's going to reach that level in particular. And even if you look at last year versus this year for Indiana, you heard Marcus Freeman say it last night where they said, what was the difference? He said, well, the quarterback like this is Fernando Mendoza, and he's the heartbeat of why Indiana was this good. And that was my point in the, in the question where I said, can they do it again? Because Fernando Mendoza is not going to be there. So can Indiana find that next great quarterback? Can they find that next great offensive line or defensive line? How are they going to do that? Because, Bill, you said Ohio State's a class of the Big Ten. They're not going anywhere. Ohio State doesn't need to do anything special to be Ohio State, whereas Indiana has to do something special to reach that level. Now they've done it. So can you keep doing it? And so I think if Indiana then beats Ohio State next year in Bloomington, then, Doug, I do think we see animosity going forward because now we're going to create a little bit of a rivalry here like it was with Michigan State, where they go ahead and they beat Ohio State in 2013, the Big Ten championship game, then in 2015, and they rob Ohio State of something. So that's where I think the animosity would come in.

[B]

Andrew, if Ohio state has like $3 million in nil sitting around, I got a way to spice this thing up.

[C]

Okay?

[B]

Alberto Mendoza, Ohio State, Buckeye I thought.

[C]

About that this morning. I was just like, wow, I really wish they didn't take Justin Martin. This would have been electrifying.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Alberto Mendoza, Fernando Mendoza's younger brother is already in the transfer portal. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. What matters to you. What matters to you. Ohio State. Go pay the brother. Last one. Question number five. Andrew Gillis. Three straight Big Ten champions on the national stage. Michigan, Ohio State, Indiana. Pick the Big Ten team that will make it four in a row, but you can't pick one of the three that just did it. So who is your pick? If you had to pick a team that could win the national championship out of the Big Ten, it's not Michigan, Ohio, Ohio State, or Indiana. Who is it in 2026?

[C]

Well, first off, it would rock if I was like, you know what? It's UCLA and Bob Chesney. It's happening again.

[D]

Hey, man, don't steal my answer.

[C]

I would be like, this is. You know what? I saw it once, don't have to. Don't fool me twice. I think it's Oregon. I think it has to be Oregon. Like, I. I was talking to somebody earlier, and we were kind of going through, you know, just the. The landscape. We were talking with people in college football, and we were like, there's teams that have won it in these last couple of years. Ohio State, Michigan, Georgia, like these big established brands. But we looked at three teams and we said it felt like maybe they've been building towards 20, 26, and it was Notre Dame, Texas and Oregon. And I think those three teams have been very much kind of building towards this season. And those three teams in some ways are natty or bust. Because I think if. I mean, at bare minimum, only one of those teams is going to win, and two of those teams are going to go home. And I think, you know, let's say it's. It's Texas and Notre Dame that don't win it, and Oregon does. Those other two teams are going to be going, ah, we. What are we ever going to have to do to win a national championship in Oregon is like, finally, we. We had the quarterback, we had the veterans. We got to Corian more in year two. We had the talent. We had, you know, Dan Landing, who took his lumps and knew, you know, figured out what it takes to win in a big game. So it's like, Oregon's got a lot of pressure on them. I do think they're going to be very, very, very good. But Oregon, I think, is the answer Kind of with the understanding of they are going to have maybe the most pressure on them or they are in that lump of teams that have the most pressure on them in the sport.

[B]

Okay, Blake, what do you say?

[A]

I'm actually right with Andrew. He kind of took the words all right out of my mouth there, because I think Oregon's the obvious answer. And I had Brett Ciancia on our show from Pick six previews, and he's. And we were just talking off air, and he was really high on Oregon building into next year, and you could see that, too. But just the attention that Oregon has had in 2026 has been evident even since last summer. And now I think it's even more so because they go into a quarterfinal for. Against Ohio State and they get blown out in the first half, and then they. They lose by double digits. And then it happens again this year to Indiana, where you're getting blown out on a big stage and everyone has these expectations on your program of like, yes, we can get there. Phil Knight's pouring in so much money. Dan Lanning is trying to take that next step as a head coach to. To win a title. He's already gotten the Big Ten, and now Dante Moore comes back. And Oregon dealt with a lot of injuries this year, and so they've probably felt like their best team was never fielded this year. So they can kind of stomach going home a little bit. But for next year, they know that all their eggs are in this basket for 2026. And if you don't win a title or at least play for it next season, then when are you ever going to get one? It's like an if not now, when type of championship or bust mentality, I think for Oregon, because their schedules also not that bad next season either. So it's not like they're gonna have to run through the gauntlet that Ohio State has to go to where they're playing Texas, and they have to play Iowa and USC and Michigan and Indiana and Illinois and all these teams throughout the Big Ten where it's like week after week. Oregon schedule is not that bad. So I think the Runway is there for them. It's just, can that plane take off and then can they land it in the national championship game and hoist a trophy?

[B]

Okay, Bill, are you actually gonna say what you're gonna say?

[D]

They're a thousand to one. Just so you know. A thousand to one to win the national title. If you want to throw a dollar on ucla. No, I think, like, it's a. I wrote them down Because I wanted to mention them mostly as a joke, but I think like. And I think Bob Chessing is a hell of a coach. Like that was, I think one of the better hires made in this cycle. But Bob Chesney's also like never coached the power 4 level in any capacity. So this is going to be a huge adjustment for him. And UCLA is not all, all that well resourced, so. No, it' ucla.

[B]

So you think that's an important distinction from Signetti who had the experience of like being an Alabama assistant.

[D]

Yeah. And he was at NC State and. Yeah. Somewhere else I think too. Yeah. Yeah, I think that matters. Yeah. Especially the Alabama stint. Yes. But yeah, so that's not a one for one comparison in terms of resume with, with Chesney and Signetti, aside from the fact that they both coached at jmu. But I think Chessy is a really good coach. I do think he'll elevate ucla, but not to the point they're going to win a national title this year. My answer is Penn State. I think Matt Campbell's a great coach. I think there were some, there were some big losses from that roster obviously, but they kept a couple of interesting guys from the previous Penn State roster that I think will matter. And then he's porting over basically the best of what was I left from Iowa State's roster that's not going off to the NFL or, or have expired their eligibility. Like they're going to have a good quarterback and Rocco Beck. You can look up and down their position groups and I was doing that before this. Like there's definitely some question marks I think like most notably like receiver, safety, defensive line. So it's not like they're, they're ready made to go get it. They're gonna have a lot of new players. I think I was looking at an article from onward State, they're gonna have 55 new players on that roster this year. But I don't, I don't think they're gonna dip primarily because like Campbell's coaching chops won't allow them to do so. And they have a pretty favorable schedule to get to the playoff. They do not play Ohio State. They did not play Indiana. They do not play Oregon. Their toughest games are like at Michigan, at Washington and home against usc. And then I think like the rest of the Big Ten schedule schedule sets up quite nicely for them and they don't have a marquee non conference game. So I think it's a team that can like win 10 games and find its Way into the playoff. And then if you're in the field and you're a power four team, I, you know, I think we have to keep an open mind, kind of like anybody now nowadays on who might be able to win it. So Oregon is. Is like, the correct answer. And I think the layup here, but for the sake of saying somebody new, I'll say Penn State. But I like. I don't think it's like super pie in the sky if. If Matt Campbell can, like, pick up his Iowa State culture and drop it in Happy Valley. Yeah.

[B]

I think there's like, a lot of. I think you could run through most. The entire. Almost the entire Big Ten and be like, here's how. They're kind of like Indiana in a way that could get you inside enthused. Right. And I do like the idea of smushing two teams together. And Matt Campbell's been a winner. And if Indiana +JMU can equal a national championship team, then Iowa State Penn State can equal a national championship team. I'm gonna say six teams, and each time I say the team, I'm gonna say, this is why I think this team can win the national championship. So if I somehow get one of the six right, I can clip that out a year from now. Okay.

[D]

Love it.

[B]

Here's. Here, let me throw you this one first. This Colton Joseph guy from Old Dominion going to Wisconsin. Sunbelt player of the year, Right. Step up quarterback. Get all excited. I don't know anything about this guy to look up his name. Wisconsin went through the ringer this year. They also don't play Oregon, Indiana or Ohio State next year. They open with Notre Dame on Sunday night at Lambeau Field. First weekend. If Luke Fickle can go in and work a little magic like Wisconsin could be. They went through hell this year. They've got. And if they can keep a quarterback healthy, like it like they. They're on like the last gas. But also a second life there. I'm just throwing it out there. It's crazy, I know. But what if. That quarterback's really something and it's an interesting quarterback to get.

[D]

I feel bad for the injury he's going to suffer.

[B]

Come on, like, one out of five years. Can Luke Fickle have a healthy quarterback? Did he sell his soul to the devil for the Cincinnati playoff appearance? And now he's destined to have an injured quarterback the rest of his life. Let me throw out this team. So Indiana won the national championship as the. Losing his program previously. The losing his program in college football. So let Us turn to what is now the losing his program in the history of college football. Led by future Heisman winner Aiden Chiles, the Northwestern Wildcats year 20262027 College Football national champions Landis, that's your guy. Aiden Childs is your guy.

[D]

He's not my guy anymore. He was my guy and then he stink. He stinks.

[B]

No, you said it two years ago. So it still sticks you. They're going to be in a new stadium. Is all going to be excited. I don't know.

[D]

Here's the actual Chip Kelly.

[B]

Chip Kelly, national champion. How many national championship winning coordinators are there out there in the world? Oh, my God. Can you look up? What are they? Five. If. If UCLA is 1,000 to 1. Northwestern must be like 10,000 to 1. I'm dropping a dollar on it. The last four, the West coast teams all have like talented, experienced quarterbacks now, right? Is Nico still at ucla? He didn't go anywhere, did he? Did he transfer again? Okay. Nico Malayava, UCLA returning starter Jade Maa, USC returning starter Dante Moore at Oregon returning starter Damon Williams, controversially returning starter at Washington. That is an interesting crop of quarterbacks who all started this year and all have something to them I don't think know the Washington roster top to bottom story. The just so that Demond Williams can get asked about it 371 times by every sideline reporter in the world. Devon, what was it like when you abandoned your team for 48 hours and then they welcomed you back? Oh, my God. He might want to lose on purpose so he doesn't have to relive that every day. He's a good player. I think Jed Fish is a pretty good coach. It felt like maybe he'd go get a job this offseason. He didn't. I'm not going to pretend I know their roster top to bottom. They lost a really, really, some really good guys. They get Indiana in Seattle, right. They're always good at home. They don't have to play Ohio State. Like, I don't know. I'm going to keep my eye on Washington, but I think the point here, Oregon is the obvious pick. I actually think there's multiple candidates and I'm not even like I'm being stupid with Northwestern. Maybe not my daughter's watching. Maybe Northwestern will do it. But Bill, part of the thing is like, I think there's teams like, if Indiana can do it, I actually think you can go through the Big Ten and say, hey, they have some good players. They have a pretty decent coach. I don't know. Maybe they could catch lightning in a bottle, too. I don't think it's crazy to think about five to seven Big Ten teams this way. I don't think it's completely crazy. Okay, anyone else? Blake? Could there be multiple lurking or is it just. It's Oregon and that's it? No lurkers.

[A]

I mean, maybe usc, maybe just talent wise. I mean, maybe USC would be the other one, I would think, but. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Yeah, you guys. No lurkers for you, Gillis.

[A]

You're.

[B]

I'm lurking alone here.

[C]

I. I mean, maybe if it's, like, unseasonably warm in College Park. Mike. Mike Locksley will just think it's September the whole year. So, like, maybe if they can just play, like, above 70 degrees the whole. The whole year, like, Washington might cook. That might work.

[B]

Okay, I want you guys going to SEC show. If I was on an SEC show and I said there's five to seven legit national championship contenders in the sec, everybody on the panel will be like, yes. Actually, it's 11, so, like, maybe you guys need to get some big Ten juice in you. Thanks, everybody, for being here for around the Shoe. Big Ten champions once again. Indiana, Ohio State, Michigan. Three years in a row. We'll continue doing around the Shoe as much as we can. It's normally on Monday. This week we did it on Tuesday. Andrew Gillis. Where can the people find you, read you, find you on your podcast? Make sure they get some Gillis in their life.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Gillis.

[C]

And you're like, that's a. That's a great way to put it. I don't know how many people have ever said they want more of that, but I think that. I think that would be great. Cleveland.com we do a lot of stuff with recruiting. You know me, Steven means Stefan Krishnik. You know, I do a lot of recruiting stuff. We have, you know, good coverage over there. We also do the Buckeye Talk podcast as well. So come listen to more of my nonsensical rants over there and movie references from Moneyball. What do we. Moneyball Invincible. And yeah, I think that was it. Normally. Normally I've got more on. On Buckeye Talk, so there's a little tease for you.

[B]

Yeah, I love it. Why Wisconsin reminds Andrew Gillis of Wuthering Heights. I can't wait to hear about it when that hits the movie theaters. Blake Biscardi. Where can the people find you?

[A]

Tsilverbulliton.com is where we have all of our written content. Saturday Cadences Our podcast will touch a little bit of national college football there and we've got some cool Ohio State focused stuff set for the season coming in next year that we're gonna work throughout the summer cool off season series. So a lot of fun things planned. You can stay tuned to the socials at Blake Biscardi. Our team does a great job, so we're really excited for what's to come.

[B]

All right, thanks as always to you guys for being here. Landis, we doing anything over at the substack, Bill and Doug? Osu.substack.com Are we shutting it down?

[D]

Do you know, like a three month vacation and then we'll get back at it.

[B]

All right, I'll see you like in May. All right, we'll see you in my brother. Thanks everybody for being here, watching on YouTube, checking it out on the podcast feeds like subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. Again, if you want to find more Ohio State content from us, you can do it at billanddugosu.substack.com for now. Thanks to Blake. Thanks to Andrew for Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice. And that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.