Podcast Summary: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Inside Julian Sayin's Heisman Trophy case, and why so many people are getting it wrong
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis
Date: October 22, 2025
Producer: Blue Wire

Overview

This episode tackles the growing debate over Ohio State quarterback Julian Sayin’s place in the Heisman Trophy race amid skepticism from national media and Heisman straw polls. Hosts Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis—veteran Ohio State insiders and Heisman voters—break down why Sayin's candidacy is more robust than the discourse suggests, why so many pundits "get it wrong," and how the Buckeyes’ team narrative and statistics intersect with Heisman history and current odds. With their trademark blend of big-picture analysis and blunt fan-first honesty, they advocate for Sayin as a legitimate, perhaps underappreciated, frontrunner.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Two Types of Heisman Arguments

(02:31 - 04:23)

• Doug & Bill describe the distinction between voting for the Heisman "right now" versus predicting who will win at season’s end.
• Bill asserts: “There's a difference between who you would vote for the Heisman today and then, like, who you think is going to be the Heisman winner at the end of the year.” (03:47, Bill Landis)
• The narrative matters—Heisman voting rewards the player who helps “tell the story of the season” and who performs on the championship stage.

2. The Importance of the Big Ten Championship

(04:23 - 07:54)

• Bill: “If Julian [Sayin] and Fernando Mendoza, their teams play for the Big Ten championship, the loser of that game is not winning the Heisman.” (04:23, Bill Landis)
• Doug notes the extra weight—if Sayin can end OSU’s losing streak vs Michigan as QB and win the Big Ten title, that’s a “pretty compelling piece of data.” (06:46, Doug Lesmerises)
• Losing to Michigan has killed prior OSU QB Heisman chances, but with the expanded playoff and new conference setups, the narrative could change.

3. Talent Stack at Ohio State and Its Effect

(09:08 - 13:19)

• Oddsmaker update: Julian Sayin (+400) behind Ty Simpson (Alabama) and Fernando Mendoza (Indiana).
• Both Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate (WRs) are excellent, but split the vote—helping Sayin’s candidacy.
  • “They do sort of cancel each other out, but also at the same time boost Julian [Sayin].” (11:37, Doug Lesmerises)
• “If you have a great quarterback and two great receivers, the receivers cancel each other out and propel the quarterback.” (12:20, Bill Landis)

4. Why the National Perception is Skewed

(15:51 - 21:19)

• Indiana WRs are strong (Omar Cooper Jr., Elijah Surratt)—if people only credit Mendoza, they shortchange the WRs.
• Indiana’s balance: Top 20 rushing attack, but still less pass-dependent than OSU.
• Media straw polls from On3 and The Athletic grossly underrate Sayin (5th and 5th) compared to Mendoza (top 2).
  • “There's an Ohio State ain't played nobody disease plaguing the athletic’s national college football staff.” (19:04, Doug Lesmerises)
  • Sharp criticism of Southern-focused or bias-laden voters:
  • “Nobody knows what the hell they're talking about… in this particular circumstance… you do not know what the hell you are talking about. And frankly, it's a little embarrassing.” (21:19, Bill Landis)

5. Head-to-Head: Sayin vs. Mendoza

(21:19 - 25:57, 28:25 - 32:28)

• Bill presents PFF and traditional stats—Sayin and Mendoza are nearly identical statistically (TDs, yards, completion %), but Sayin’s overall PFF grade is higher.
• It makes no sense that Mendoza is #1 in straw polls while Sayin barely appears.
• Media seem enchanted by the “story” of Mendoza or Pavia (Vanderbilt) as underdogs, ignoring that Sayin’s transfer and rise is a story itself.

6. Schedule Strength, SEC Bias, and the ‘They Haven’t Played Anybody’ Trope

(32:28 - 34:49)

• Doug checks: Sayin has faced the best defenses (Texas #1 SP+, Minnesota top 20, Washington top 30).
• OSU’s “lack of marquee” games after Texas and Penn State is overblown.
  • “It's taking Miami losing for people to actually pay attention... but I don't think anyone's really bothering to take a look at what exactly Julian Saying's done or that… they're just starting to.” (25:04, Doug Lesmerises)
• Host frustration with SEC-centric Heisman voting:
  • “Other than On3's headquarters are in Nashville and you got a bunch of SEC lunkheads voting for On3.” (32:28, Bill Landis)

7. Betting Odds and Smart Wagers

(35:02 - 36:29)

• “You cannot bet Fernando Mendoza to win the Heisman unless you think Indiana is going to beat Ohio State…” (35:02, Bill Landis)
• OSU as Big Ten favorite, Sayin's Heisman odds solid; “Best quarterback on best team” remains the default winning profile.

8. Does Sayin Need a “Heisman Moment”?

(36:29 - 37:43)

• Doug: “Do you think [Sayin] can still win if he doesn’t have a Heisman Moment?”
• Bill: “The case is: He’s the most accurate quarterback in college football history for the undefeated, number one defending national champs. I think that’s enough.” (37:18, Bill Landis)

9. Heisman Precedents: QBs on Top Seeds

(40:15 - 44:00)

• Review of playoff-era “best team, best QB” results: In almost every scenario, if the QB is truly elite (not a “quarterback in name only”), he’s the Heisman front-runner.
• If Arch Manning were doing exactly what Sayin’s doing at Texas, “there would not even be a conversation.” (44:03, Bill Landis)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The Heisman helps tell the story of the season. It’s not just statistical… the Heisman winner should help you tell the story of that season.” (04:47, Bill Landis)
• “If you're the quarterback of the undefeated number one defending national champs… that’s a story to be.” (29:00, Bill Landis)
• “Can you believe that the Indiana quarterback and the Vanderbilt quarterback are Heisman candidates? No, I can’t.” (29:23, Bill Landis)
• “There’s an ‘Ohio State ain’t played nobody’ disease plaguing The Athletic’s national college football staff.” (19:04, Doug Lesmerises)
• “If Arch Manning had Julian Sayin’s exact statistics and Texas was undefeated number one, there would not even be a conversation.” (44:03, Bill Landis)
• “I don’t think this is unreasoned anger. First, it’s not anger, because it doesn’t matter, but it’s frustration about perception, which is kind of my brand.” (46:27, Bill Landis)
• “We need to fight the good fight against perception, and Julian Sayin is not being discussed properly.” (46:47, Doug Lesmerises)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:31 — Why Julian Sayin should be a Heisman frontrunner
• 04:23 — Big Ten title and the Heisman outcome
• 09:08 — Betting odds and how OSU’s receivers affect Sayin’s candidacy
• 15:51 — Indiana’s receivers and Mendoza’s case
• 19:04 — "Ohio State ain’t played nobody" and national bias
• 21:19 — Stat comparison: Sayin vs. Mendoza + Media critique
• 28:25 — Deeper dive: passing stats and Heisman “types” of cases
• 32:28 — Schedule strength, SEC bias, and voting trends
• 35:02 — Smart bets for Heisman futures
• 36:29 — Does Sayin NEED a “Heisman moment”?
• 40:15 — History lesson: top-seeded QBs in Heisman voting
• 44:03 — “If Arch Manning did this at Texas…” argument

Tone & Style

• Direct, irreverent, passionate.
• Part fan advocacy, part data-driven debate.
• Not afraid to challenge national media or conventional narratives.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

• Main takeaway: Julian Sayin’s Heisman profile is much stronger than the national narrative admits; skepticism is rooted in media bias, outdated perceptions, and underestimation of Ohio State’s story and schedule.
• **If you want the real conversation, scan the segments above and listen for sharp quotes around 19:00, 21:19, and 44:00 for the hosts’ most unfiltered arguments.
• Summary: If Ohio State keeps winning and Sayin’s efficiency continues, he’s a top contender regardless of current straw poll narratives. The hosts urge fans and voters to see through the noise and give Sayin’s story its due.