← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Inside Ohio State football's No. 2 spring practice: Julian Sayin's growth and a safety to watch
00:48:20
Ohio State football held its second spring football practice on Thursday, and Bill Landis and Doug Lesmerises were there to watch the first hour and talk to Julian Sayin and Kenyatta Jackson after practice.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lay. Maurice, Bill Landis back from day two of spring practice for Ohio State on Thursday morning. We watched another hour. We talked with Julian sand and Kenyatta Jackson after practice. Bill. We put up our observations, a bunch of videos@billanddugosu.substack.com and now we're here to talk about it all. I feel like we kind of want to talk about quarterbacks a little bit, if that's okay with you.
- [00:30]
B
Quarterbacks or. Or facial hair.
- [00:33]
A
Now, listen. I mean, like, don't open the door. Don't open the door. And let me do seven minutes on Julian supreme off the top of the show. I gave you an opening to talk ball and. Yeah, getting us right into mustache gate.
- [00:48]
B
We'll do. We'll do ball first and we'll do. We'll do mustache. Do you want to talk? Because one of your observations. There he is.
- [00:56]
A
Sorry.
- [00:57]
B
One of your observations was, like, about, like how, like, with the room. Right. You think the room's stacked up quite nicely. Yeah.
- [01:04]
A
So. So if you weren't. If you. If you're listening on a podcast, you didn't see that on YouTube. I just flashed little, Little. Little Julian saying stash. Little Timothy Chalamet stache. And we'll discuss it later in the show because we did break and. And I. I've heard people talk about this, that we. From the 70s on, every time there was any kind of sort of like, controversy or like a thing, every a. Put a gate at the end. But are we moving into files now? So is this the mustache files instead of mustache gate? But also it's at Ohio State, so I don't know if we want to dance on that dance floor. Like, Ohio State's like, no, no, no. No files here. No files here. Hey, Ohio State got a new president.
- [01:47]
B
They did. Yeah. Weird, weird situation. Like. Yeah, we don't. Yeah. We don't promote the guy that the guy that we basically fired. Hired. That's. Yeah.
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A
Yeah. All right. I'm not sure. I. I don't have it right in front of me. I'm not sure exactly how to pronounce the new president's name, but I think it's pronounced not Jim Trestle, I think is the name that he goes by officially. So, yes, if the former football coach was the president, we'd be talking about it. If the. The person who's the president is just a person in academia, nobody cares. Good luck to Ohio State. I watched offense. You watched defense. On Thursday. We had done the Opposite. You had watched offense and I'd watched defense on Tuesday. And so, you know, I think it's good for both of us to have like a full view of the team. And I think, you know, it's like maybe we had some different observations on some things, maybe we agreed on some things. But I was struck just as like we know this but watching the four guys who were running through quarterback drills for Ohio State, I think there's two walk ons who were in there too. So there's six guys in the black jerseys who are doing the quarterback stuff and they were doing some drills and maybe they're doing this Tuesday where like all the, the four quarterbacks are lined up together and there's four receivers running routes and then they're all dropping back and throwing a route to a guy at the same time. So you get a little bit of that. Okay, here we go. And it is a returning starter, five star recruit, fourth in the Heisman voting last year. Julian saying it is a five star second year player, future of the program, Tavian Sinclair. It is a veteran one time starter at UCLA who also then went to Maryland and has been around and is here as a veteran guy in Justin Martin who's number three. And it is your true freshman in Luke Fahey. And you just, you know it in your head. But, but Bill, you line them up together on the field and you have them all drop back in unison. And I just did think to myself they that's what a college quarterback room should look like.
- [03:49]
B
Yes, I think and that, that sort of realization has maybe hit me one or two other times in the Ryan Day era because there has been a scramble at times. I didn't think of the room exactly how Ryan Day would like it to be. And I think he'd probably say this is about it, especially nowadays with how college football is and how rosters change to have returning starter, heir apparently veteran young guy who can just like kind of wait in the, in the dark and, and develop. You don't really have to worry about them. It's pretty good. Like I don't, I don't know if I don't think he'd want one more. Right. Like he wants four. He has four and he's, then he has them all kind of staggered. It's a pretty good situation I think for Ohio State to be in. And I think that now the onus is sort of like get the heir apparent some time this year which maybe Ohio State hasn't always done a great job of. But in terms of Just sort of room structure, cohesion, chemistry, makeup. Yeah, it does feel like they're in a pretty good spot.
- [04:45]
A
And the other thing I thought as I was watching quarterbacks today, they were doing a drill. They were under center and dropping back and handing off. And Ryan Day was over there with them. Billy Festel, the quarterbacks coach, of course, was over there with them. And Ryan Day was getting very specific about footwork, especially with Tavian Sinclair. And then he was sort of like, tapping Justin Martin's feet to, like, get his foot to go up half an inch under, like, the way that your. Your feet should be aligned, that you take before you hand off. And then even, like, at one point, Tavian St. Clair, I think, like, an awkward handoff where he almost ran into the back, because I think he's like, okay, I got to do this right? And maybe thinking about it too much, but he's learning. He's learning. And it's Ryan Day, the head coach, a former college quarterback who's been around the block and knows quarterback play probably as well as anybody in college football. Then Billy, he's the quarterback's coach. Billy Fessler is a qualified quarterbacks coach. He. He, you know, has had responsibility elsewhere. He was at Ohio State. He left. You know, he isn't just a guy who's only been in the building. And then there was a moment later where they were doing a little bit of seven on seven, and Julian Sands huddling up with the guys, and then he's running over to Arthur Smith to get the play call from Arthur Smith. So that was another moment for me, Bill, of like, you have these four guys in the room that you have lined up, and there you have Ryan Day, who's not only dedicated to quarterbacks, but can come over and talk about footwork. You have Billy Fessler, who is a qualified quarterbacks coach, and then you have a play caller and Arthur Smith, who also, you know, knows quarterback play. But is there to, like, talk with Julian saying. And I'm. I'm thinking about Julian saying, and we're gonna talk about him being in this room, being a leader in this room, yet having a veteran like Justin Martin and then having three guys like that that he's bouncing stuff off of. And I just thought, like, that's seven brains trying to make the quarterback play at Ohio State the best it can be. And I have not always felt that, like, they had everything lined up. Even though the quarterback play at Ohio State has been extraordinary. Look at the Heisman voting. I haven't always felt like that Maybe they would be. They were seven for seven in the brains. Those are the seven people most involved with quarterback play at Ohio State. And I just thought, watching the coaches, I thought again, yep, this is what it should look like.
- [07:11]
B
The, the Arthur Smith piece of that is, is maybe the most interesting to me. Especially juxtaposed to what it was last year when you could watch that same drill play out in practice and Brian Hartline's calling the plays, but Brian Hartline's also coaching the receivers. Right? Like, I don't, I don'. I don't know how much dialogue there was between Brian Hartline and Julian saying between plays at practice. And it's just sort of like the nature of the beast when you choose to make your receivers coach the play caller. And there's a lot to get into there. I think we can maybe go down Ryan, go down that road with Ryan Day too and, and see what he thinks of that. But I think like having that sort of extra layer at the top is really what makes the difference because I think Ohio State had that in, in 2024 as well with Chip Kelly. Like Chip was the quarterback's coach, but I think Billy Fessler had a lot of autonomy in that room even though he wasn't the full time position. So. Or at the very least you sort of had like a dual kind of thing going on there with, with Chip and Fessler. And I think you'll probably have a similar thing going on in there with Billy Fessler and Arthur Smith. Who Ryan. They kind of went out of his way on Tuesday to remind us that when, when Arthur Smith was a coordinator, he was meeting with the quarterbacks. Like he wasn't meeting with whatever the offensive liner, tight ends or something like that. So yeah, there's a lot of brain power there. I think when you're trying to envision what a year two jump could look like for Julian saying, or frankly any quarterback to be in that sort of environment feels like it would give you a pretty strong chance of, of seeing the kind of leap you're hoping to see. Right? Yeah.
- [08:38]
A
I asked Julian saying this is your thing and this, I do this sometimes. It's like you say a smart thing and I'm like, I'm gonna ask that question because you asked a different question. I think maybe so I didn't feel like I stole it from you. But you had been right. You had mentioned the idea that Julian Sands had three different offensive coordinators at Ohio State. Chip Kelly, when Will Howard was the starter, but Julian sand was absorbing the offense It's a freshman Brian Hartline last year, and now Arthur Smith. And so I did ask Julian sand about that and also just like, how much Arthur Smith stuff has been integrated into the Ohio State offense since he arrived. And he basically kind of said, not that big of a deal. Arthur Smith has added a little bit, but, like, the verbiage, Verbiage hasn't changed much. The offense hasn't changed. I don't think I would have expected him to answer any other way. But, like, do you believe that?
- [09:33]
B
I do believe that the, like, the verbiage hasn't changed much. Like, I, I think because this was a similar conversation when Bill o' Brien was here for two weeks. Like, Bill o' Brien has his way of doing things and there's some crossover and there's not. And I think the areas where there's, where there's not, maybe some of that changes. But I think Ryan Day is probably pretty intentional about making that as familiar as he can for his young players. So, you know, I don't, I don't think that, you know, Julian Saying was playing quarterback in French and now he's playing in Spanish or something like that.
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A
Right.
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B
Although there are two Romance languages. Maybe that's a better analogy.
- [10:10]
A
Speaking of Romance languages, boom shakalaka.
- [10:13]
B
I should have said French and Mandarin, maybe. Yeah, but no, I, I, I, I believe him when he says that. And I, I thought it was interesting that he took the question that you just asked pretty straightforward, but I guess, like, could be taken as like, hey, is this an issue? And he kind of spun it into a positive and said, like, that's like, when you're a quarterback, you're learning new stuff all the time. And like, when you're, in the end, if, when you're in the NFL, you're probably not going to have the same play caller for 10 years. Right. So, so guys come in, guys leave, and things change. And he says it's good experience. Julian said it's good experience to kind of go through that. And I think that the learning curve is probably not super steep because of the way that Ryan Day has things structured.
- [10:54]
A
Yeah, I don't, I feel like this is one of those things that you notice it when it happens, and maybe if it's not happening, you don't notice it. I, I did try to watch a decent number of the, you know, the passing drills today. I don't know that I saw like, a ball get sailed. You know, I don't know that I saw, like, Julian sand really doesn't miss. I Don't know that I thought Taven Sinclair missed. I don't know that I thought Justin Martin missed. I maybe saw one low throw of the middle that I think might have been Luke Fahey. But I think there have been times when you go out there, especially it's the first two days of practice and the ball's kind of sailing around and, and I, and I thought that. I noticed that. Okay, what'd you. You thought.
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B
I thought they were knocking some rust off on Tuesday. Yeah.
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A
You thought they were throwing it around. Okay.
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B
Not, not like, oh, my goodness, no one on the team can throw a ball. But it's just like that was not quite where it needed to be.
- [11:47]
A
Okay, well, they improved then. I thought. I thought I did notice it as much on Thursday. Should we, should we talk about, like, we got to 12 minutes in before we talked about Julian saying running it. Because everybody, I mean, we talked about it a lot. When Ryan Day said on Tuesday that his legs are going to be his X Factor this year. Of course he's. Julian saying himself is going to get asked about it this year. But he said he put on Kenyatta Jackson. Kenyatta Jackson spoke and said he put on 8 pounds of lean mass. And Julian saying said, I put on 5 to 10. It's like, ah, because no, like there's a difference between 5 and 10. Right?
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B
Yeah.
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A
But the bottom line is he didn't say definitely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he didn't come in and say, you know what? I'm. I'm down. I'm down six. I don't know what's happening. I got skinnier. And he did say he wants to break tackles. He said, he said like he and Mickey Moratti, Ohio State strength coach, like, they were working on that he wants to be more powerful in his lower body and he wants to break tackles, which sounds X factory.
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B
Yeah, I thought that too, seeing him on the first day on Tuesday, that he. A little, a little thicker in the lower half.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And I think, you know, you, some guys, I think, sort of have that, like Justin Fields, I think, was that naturally C.J. stroud even I think was kind of that naturally J.T. barrett. Yeah. Haunches on that guy.
- [13:17]
A
Oh, my God. If you like Julian saying, I would love to go to Julian Sands apartment and just see like, you know how you slide like little photos in your mirror right in there. It's just J.T. barrett's thighs are just right. And it's like, like life goals. Right. Just like. Because everyone I can remember going to Big Ten media days and asking other Big Ten players about this one time about J.T. barrett trying to tackle J.T. barrett, and they said it's like trying to tackle a fullback, right? And it's like he's the quarterback, but there's. I. There's literally somebody. I don't know who it was probably an Iowa linebacker said tackling J.T. barrett's like trying to tackle a fullback. So I don't think Julian saying is going to get there, but that's what I'd shoot for.
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B
It's not a bad thing to shoot for. I don't think he'll get there either. And I don't. I don't really think that's what Ohio State is. Is asking of him quite to that extent. But. But he definitely had to get stronger in his lower half. Like, even think about. They did put him in a, like, I don't know, it was like 8 or so QB sneak situations last year and a couple that didn't go the right way against Indiana or at least one again didn't go the right way against Indiana. So like, he's got to be able to get low and stay off the ground and drive his legs and move the pile. Like, I, I don't like. That's not a big ask, I think, of any quarterback. So, yeah, he's been working on that. I, I have wondered like, this conversation about legs being an X factor can take you in a lot of different directions, but I actually think a. A large part of it is can you work in the pocket and not go down so easily? Like the, especially like in the Miami game, it felt like the first guy there, maybe with the exception of one time, like if they got a hand on Julian, he was going down and that's what you have to try to avoid. He's not, you know, he's not Ben Roethlisberger who's going to shake off every single tackle that comes his way, but you got to be able to step out of stuff, I think. And had he been able to do that against Miami, maybe a player two goes differently. And it definitely sounds like that's what he's been working on in the off season.
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A
And there was a lot of that in. In the questions to saying sort of
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B
like, yeah, that's what I. That's what kind of.
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A
I asked about do you wish you did anything different kind of stuff? And, and he, I think was kind of getting around to that because. Because what he had. It was your question that he had the really interesting answer to about what do you do with bad plays or something. Right. Or bad situations.
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B
Yeah. So I asked him, like, how much does he think about being a playmaker?
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A
And he's.
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B
And. And he said that Billy Fessler tells all the quarterbacks that. That elite quarterbacks are great in bad situations. And I, I don't. Like, he didn't. He didn't mean like, oh, we're in the wrong play. Change the play. He meant like, we forgot to block somebody. It's time. It's time to make something happen here. And then I followed that up and said, like, how do you think you handled the bad situations last year? And he said, I could have been better in some spots.
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A
Right.
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B
Like, he wasn't. Like, he's not. I could have asked him seven more questions about that, maybe gotten some better answers, but some somewhat introspective, I think, about. About a lot of this. I think it was Bill or Benowitz was asking him, trying to ask him specifically about the Indiana Miami games. And Julian did not mention any plays specifically, but acknowledged, as anyone would assume, that, that, yeah, there's parts of those performances that have. That have sat with him throughout the off season and motivated him. And he said specifically, like, you know, sitting on the couch watching the playoffs after you've been eliminated, you can't help but think of the three or four plays you should have made so that you're not sitting on the couch. So I, you know, he's. I. I wonder if he might play with some more fire this year. But I don't think he's ever gonna, like, show fire behind a podium when he's talking to us. So that's probably about as close to it as he was gonna.
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A
Good. So right. When you're. When you're a quarterback and they're coming after you, you. You can. You can do one of three things, right? You can get rid of the ball before they get to you. Because you have a quick release. Because your brain is a computer, because you anticipate things, or you can. And then I would include this. Like, you. You slide the protection ahead of time. Like, you solve the problem before it get. It happens. Yeah. And they never get to you. And I always. That's how C.J. strout solve problems. I solve the problem before it happens, then you can run away from it, which is like, I'm gonna scoot. I'm fast, I'm gonna spin away, and I'm gonna be a whisper in the dark. I'm a ghost. I'm gone. You tried to grab me, and I wasn't there. Right. And it's. And it's shiftiness and it's speed or you can stand there and they bounce off you and they can't bring you down and you. You. You shuck off a sack before you stay in the pocket and throw the ball. So I do think Julian sand can be a. Solve a problem before it happens quarterback. He was probably only that, but I thought, like, he's pretty good at that already. And, And I do think that will remain a huge part of his game because, like C.J. stroud, I think his. And. And Ryan Day says this and Arthur Smith said it like, he's smart. He knows what to do. I think he can recognize coverages and what defensive coordinators are trying to do so that. Do you think that's still his best option? Solve it before it happens. Get the ball out of my hand. Or, or no. Do you think you want him? Hang in there. You don't have to solve it right away. You don't have to take the check down. You don't have to get out of your hand. Hang in and then do one of the other two. What's still his primary way to solve things?
- [18:55]
B
I think to see it before it happens. Route like, get on. Get on the same page with Carson Hinsman and get your protection calls. Right. I. And that's more of like the. Probably the Indiana game where Indiana's moving a lot, doing a whole bunch of stuff, and there's. There's just sort of like someone always unblocked and, and you know, that's part of the beauty of their defense. It's hard to defend. It's hard to. To account for that stuff. But I think a more veteran quarterback probably does a better job of setting the protections the right way that I. I think that was a bit of an issue for Ohio State last year.
- [19:29]
A
Okay, so then what will be his number two? Do you think he is a more runaway or. Or a more. You can't bring me down. Like, is it speed or is it strength that you think would be his next best way to solve bad situations?
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B
Probably like the quick. The quickness to. To get it. Get away from it a little bit.
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A
Okay, so we're talking about strength in the lower body. But like ju. And like Justin Fields is like a rare. Like, he's both. Right. But Justin Fields is like you. It's going to take five guys to bring him down. But also he'll outrace you at the same time. But it really is like Damon Williams Jr. Is like, he's Gonna run away from you. Right. Whereas, like, I don't know who's, like, the big. Who's like a. A big college quarterback who's gonna hang in there and maybe even, like, Carson. I don't know. But anyway, like, we're having a conversation about J.T. barrett's thighs, but actually, we think he's a little bit more. Scoot away from pressure and then have the power and the strength when you need it. But it's not like, I dare you to sack me like you. You want him to run away from it?
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B
Yeah, I don't think he's the. I mean, he. He did. He did last year, like, a time or two, like, hang in there, take a shot, and deliver the ball down the field.
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A
But I don't.
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B
He's. He's not very big. I don't think you want him doing that a whole lot.
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A
He didn't grow four inches.
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B
Yeah, he did not. Yeah, he did not. He's. He's still 6:1 from. From what I can tell.
- [20:54]
A
Yeah. Okay. I did. So they are. It's just. It's funny. We watch the same. We get this. We get five. We watch some stretching and that kind of thing. Little couple, like, warm up 11 on 11 stuff sometimes. And then we watch the first five periods of practice, and usually first five periods of practice. I don't know if Paul Brown scripted them in 1942. And everybody still does the same stuff, but it's like, you do a little bit of, like, maybe team stuff, and then you break off into special teams, then you do some individual drill, and then right when they usually, like, in period six, they're getting back to, like, the team ones versus ones. That's when they kick us out. So we see the same drills, the same stuff all the time. But I did note they were running. And again, I. Like, I just. I. I don't want to. I mean, we're in the mode of not taking things for granted. I talked about this on the show on Tuesday or we talked about, like, Jerry, I guess, on around the Shoe on Wednesday. Like, don't take Jeremiah Smith for granted. And we had some of our Substack subscribers saying, like, listen, man, I. I don't take anything about Ohio State football for granted. Like, you don't have to remind us, Doug. And they're saying, like, I'm a Bengals fan. I'm a Browns fan. Like, I swear to do not take Ohio State for granted. So great. But I'm trying not to take things for granted, like, just because you've Seen it before. But I like when Ryan Day moves around and it's like, you don't have to be like, I only have to stay with my position group. It's like, no, you're the head coach. So anyway, they're running a running back drill and it's like run through and they're run over the pads and everyone's like, there's guys along both sides reaching in and trying to knock the ball away. And Ryan Day's at the front of the line like, he's the first hand in. I'm going to knock the ball away from Turbo Richards Rogers.
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B
Right?
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A
And so Julian Sands overdoing the quarterback drill. And like, right at the end, when they're getting ready to end that running back drill, Julian saying, ran over and he went through the running back. They're trying to knock the ball out of my hands drill. And no other quarterbacks did. And I don't know if that was Julian singing, being like, let me get a piece of that. I don't know if that's Ryan Day. I don't know if that's Billy Fessler. I don't know if that's Arthur Smith. But the quarterback that Ryan Day said his X factor in his legs came over and did the running back drill where they were trying to knock the ball out of their hands. And I just thought it was interesting.
- [23:10]
B
That is interesting. I. They did a sort of gauntlet of ball security on Tuesday when I was watching the offense and there was like. Did they do the same thing where, like, they had. They look like flags are almost set up like a slalom kind of. But as you go through, people are whacking at you to get the ball out of your hand. Is that what. Is that what you were doing? So when they did it on Tuesday, all the quarterbacks did it.
- [23:31]
A
Okay, so I just saw Julian do it today and he did it like. Like it wasn't that the quarterbacks came and did the drill. It was like he ran over to the running back drill and did it so. So, like that, like, that idea continues. And then we also heard something from Julian saying, our boys all grown up. What can we say? Said the F word.
- [23:53]
B
He did. Yeah. Yeah. He got up. He broke down the team after Ryan Day talked to him and he said, I can't remember all of what he said, but he ended it with, go out there and be a effing dog today.
- [24:07]
A
Yeah. Because you know who's an effing dog? These guys. Boom shakalaka. So we now have photos dueling Photos of Julian sand and Timothy Chalamet up on the screen. Julian sand is 20 years old. Timothy Chalamet is 30 years old. They're not the same person.
- [24:32]
B
He's 30.
- [24:33]
A
He's 30. He has a. He has a feeling. Yeah, no, I know. I was a little shocked, too. I had to look it up. He also has dual citizenship with France, which I didn't know because just let me tell you, somebody with a French last name. We're not all from France, people. So Julian saying. I. I would like to credit the Bill and Doug show with breaking the news that Julian saying has a mustache. Because we mentioned it on Tuesday, and we were like, is it a shadow? Is it a mustache? The people on the. Around the shoe were like, I didn't notice the mustache. And he came in and he's got a mustache. He also has some facial hair down around the side, down to his chin. Right. And he said he didn't shave for a couple days. And then Austin Seravelt and Luke Montgomery told him to keep it. He does not know if the facial hair is permanent. He said it's probably not. But I kind of like the idea of the offensive lineman encouraging him to do this. But I also would caution Julian sand because Luke Montgomery got Carson Hinsman to dye his hair blonde during the season, and it's still blonde. So sometimes I think, apparently if Luke Montgomery has ideas about hair on your body, it becomes permanent. So watch yourself. Julian saying. But it is an obvious metaphor for. This guy is a year two starter. He's not a kid anymore. He's been through it. And I'll take it. I will take the metaphor and run with this thing as long as we possibly can.
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B
Yeah, no, I will, too. I think he's got to ditch the beard, though, and just go with the mustache.
- [26:16]
A
Just stash. Okay.
- [26:17]
B
Yeah.
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A
What about. So Chalamet, this photo, to be fair, I want to be accurate. This Chalamet photo is from last year's Oscars. So this is a year ago. This is not actually. Well, it might have been while he was filming Marty supreme, but he's got a stash and a little goatee, but not as much around the side. What if Julian keeps the goatee with the stash but gets rid of, like, the side stuff? Or do you just want stash?
- [26:41]
B
He could do. If he wants to keep. Keep the. The little. The little chin fuzz? Yeah, he can do that. He just has the thing going. And I actually had this issue too, where, like, you don't. You don't get it to, to grow high. When you're growing the beard out, it kind of just like grows along your jawline.
- [26:56]
A
Yeah. Not up on the tree.
- [26:57]
B
It's sort of like sort of thinly doesn't connect to the mustache. So when you're dealing. When you're dealing with that, I think you just got to go. Stash.
- [27:05]
A
Yeah. Now, we are not saying that Julian saying is a doppelganger of Timothy Chalamet, but I. I think he's kind of like the football version of Timothy Chalamet. I mean, this is. Right. It's in the same range.
- [27:20]
B
They look a lot. Yeah. He. Especially when Julian had the longer hair. Yeah, he looked a lot. He looked a lot like, like Dune Chalamet.
- [27:29]
A
Yeah. Okay, so do we think a good nickname for him would be Julian Supreme? Oh, because like Ghost. If, if he. I kind of wish his name was like, you know, Stevie or something that ended with a Y instead of Julian. Because we can't call him Julianne supreme because it doesn't make any sense. But we'll workshop it. Julian Supreme.
- [27:53]
B
Because in Dune, his name is just Paul.
- [27:56]
A
Oh, okay. Just Julian. That could also work well.
- [28:02]
B
But it's not as cool. It's not as cool as Supreme.
- [28:04]
A
Horrible movie. But I haven't seen. And I'll say it again, I don't like, Bring it. Bring it. All you Marty supreme apologists. So. But like, I, I think. And we had plenty of conversations, I guess, that we can take. Should we take Timothy Chalamet and Julian saying off the screen? Is that enough for the people?
- [28:24]
B
Yeah. I'm done looking at Chalamet's eyebrows. Yeah, yeah.
- [28:27]
A
He's not going to win best actor. Michael B. Jordan's gonna win on Sunday night, by the way.
- [28:30]
B
Which I'm super. Yeah. Because. Because he was the favorite for a long time. Right. Charlemagne.
- [28:34]
A
He was. I. I thought Michael B. Jordan's performance was far superior.
- [28:38]
B
I saw somebody on this is has nothing to do with this conversation. But I saw somebody on most of it on Tick Tock said that they pronounce Michael B. Jordan. Like B. Jordan is one. Call him Michael bjordan.
- [28:49]
A
Oh, like he's Swedish. Like he's.
- [28:52]
B
Like he's Swedish. Oh.
- [28:54]
A
Michael Bin might win. Like, we thought that Julian Sayan playing a little young and playing like a first year starting quarterback, which he was. There's nothing wrong with it. I mean, an extraordinary season, but like, what held Ohio State back from potentially winning the national championship? We thought that was decently high on the list. Right. Of all the Things that, like, that maybe didn't go perfectly. So, like, he's adding between 5 and 10 pounds of muscle in his lower body. He's doing more running drills. He's growing a mustache. He's dropping F bombs to the team. Like Julian saying, growing up, like, I, like give. I, I think Ohio State fans will take every morsel that we can get that indicates that because it directly. Do we need to put a mustache photo on the screen for five minutes? No, but like, it's not unconnected to winning because a more mature, experienced. I've been through the battles, I've been through the wars. I've learned from my mistakes. I've learned from my successes. I'm physically stronger. I'm even smarter. I'm more aggressive. I'm more confident. All of that from Julian saying is. Has an incredible effect on Ohio State winning?
- [30:17]
B
I, I think so. Yeah. I don't. As silly as some of the discussion might sound, I, I would understand that perspective. Like, I think it kind of all matters. Like everything he does matter. So it is why I say it's quarterback. And we're just trying to figure out if he's actually going to be. Because if Julian saying is just what he was last year, Ohio State can still be very good, but I don't think Ohio can win a national championship. So, like, he has to, he has to be something better than what he was last year. And I think everyone understands that. That's why you go to Ohio State. And I'm just, I'm, I'm eager to see the, the, the transformation here. I, I don't know exactly what it's going to look like. I don't, like, I don't even know if we'll talk to Julian again the rest of the spring. This one, this might be it. And then we'll see him again, whatever, in August and see if he still has the mustache, I guess. But I, I think all of this is pretty important to, to what Ohio State's going to be this year because he has to. I don't even know how to describe it, like, come out of his shell a little bit. Like, like be. I've, I thought all along last year and even this off season, like, there was more in there that, that for that. I just think, like, for a young guy, it can be difficult to tap into sort of immediately. There are, there are quarterbacks who do do that immediately, and they're. Then you don't really, like, kind of have any questions about them. Like, they get out there, they're Ready to roll. And they don't really question it. And I don't, I don't think that's quite what Julian was last year, but I, I think he can get there this off season. And it seems like he's thus far done a lot of the things that you would want to see him do to, to kind of get himself into that spot when the time comes.
- [31:58]
A
So if an Ohio State fan came up to you and said, hey Philly, Billy, you've seen two, two days of practice and you heard from him. How's the quarterback looking? What's, what's your vibe on the qb? Is, is he going to be what we need? What would you say?
- [32:11]
B
I would say he's headed in the right direction. Yeah, we did. We haven't seen like the two practices we watched. Like live throwing against the defense has been minimal. So I don't want to, I don't want to make too much of it, but I also think like, we know we can, we can throw the ball. He's accurate. The ball comes out fast. We know those things. I think, I think a lot of the, the growth people want to see from Julian is, is the running stuff, which is again, a little hard to ascertain in the spring, but I think we've seen some things that at least tell us he's working on it and then like, his confidence is leadership. So like to see him in front of the team, to see the work he's put on in the off season, to see him.
- [32:48]
A
What?
- [32:49]
B
Because whatever the mustache thing is, like, it's, isn't it, I don't know, a little ironic or, or maybe not ironic, but, but sort of fitting that this guy who we want to see grow up is growing a mustache. But it's also like he's bonding with his offensive lineman too. Like, that's another way to, to look at it. So, yeah, I think he's. I think he's in a pretty good spot.
- [33:11]
A
What else? From Tuesday again, we switched sides of the ball. So you and I have both now taken in a full practice, each observing both sides. We have a better handle on the full roster. Why don't maybe do a little rapid fire on what else caught our eye, caught our ear. Anything else from singing? Anything else from Kenyatta Jackson, who also spoke. Anything else we saw start with you,
- [33:37]
B
man. I would say like I. The defensive line is a pretty interesting looking group. Like I, again, they have not. They're not pads on yet. There haven't been like one on ones with the offensive line. We have not seen any full 11 on 11 team reps. So you're just kind of watching the defensive line run around, go through drills. But there's a, like, even the freshmen, like just like look really good sometimes. Like freshman defensive linemen especially, I think, show up sometimes. You just, just like, yeah, that kid's just like not been in the weight room a lot and it's gonna take, it's gonna take a year or two and like, that's fine. That's how it goes. But I don't know that I feel that really about like any other freshmen. Like Jameer Perez is £360. But even like he, he sprinted across the field at one point to get from one drill to another. I was like, my goodness, that kid can move really well for someone who's £360. So it's, it's a group that I, I'm, I'm wondering exactly what the ceiling is, but I think if you just, you know, watch them go through stuff and try to assess sort of like the, the athletic ability of the group. It was, it was pretty good looking, I thought, on Thursday.
- [34:42]
A
Okay, that's interesting. Trying to watch a lot of the receivers on Thursday. Doing a lot of comparisons of Chris Henry Jr. And Jeremiah Smith. Like, it's just, it's, it's just remarkable. It's like Jeremiah Smith, like, the body type is. The frame is the same, but the bodies are not. And Jamaica Jeremiah Smith is listed as like 25 pounds heavier than Chris Henry Jr. Low. Chris Hen Jr. Is listed at 65 and Jeremiah Smith I think is listed at 6 3. Just a reminder for people. And again, like, I think you've been on this, but maybe I wasn't totally locked in and thinking about it this way, it just feels like Chris Henry Jr. Like, will he play this year? He's just lining up at X receiver as a backup to Jeremiah Smith. Like in practice when we watch that and actually like on third, you know, David Adolf, who's a veteran, is kind of running with the twos at X and Chris Henry Jr's with the Threes. But like, I would imagine that Chris Henry Jr. Will be the backup X by the time we get to the season. Although Brian Hartley frontline like dork and David Adolph last year, but he's not really. And that doesn't mean you can't play the other position. That X and Z are so different that like, you can't possibly learn the other thing. But it doesn't like two practices in. That's just not the primary way they're thinking about it. And then I do think at Z and. And like, the Kyle Parker, Devin McEwen as two transfers, and Jaden Guilford as a freshman. Those are the three guys who are the top three guys at Z. And it just might be a dog fight to get on the field, and the answer might be all three. But it's just. If you're an Ohio State fan and you're just, like, thinking about it, whatever, like, I just would not. Chris Henry Jr. Is not going to be the other starting receiver with Brandon Innocent. Jeremiah Smith. He's just. He's just. I just. It's just not going to be what it is. But he is. If you were trying to be like, how can we replace Jeremiah Smith? It's like, I don't know. I'd start here. I'd start with Chris Henry Jr. I don't know that you could have somebody in the building who's a better facsimile of Jeremiah Smith than this kid, but I think he's gonna glue himself to Jeremiah Smith for this year and then try to be as good as Jeremiah Smith in 2027 and 2028.
- [36:46]
B
I think Chris Henry's freshman season is probably going to look like Marvin Harrison's freshman season.
- [36:51]
A
Okay.
- [36:53]
B
Where Marvin was the backup X to Garrett Wilson but didn't play. I mean, he played. He had. Look, now he had 1, 2, 3, 4. Oh, no. Maybe Chris is looking. Marvin only had five catches before the Rose bowl, so I think. I think Chris will have more than that. But Marvin did. Did play a decent amount of snaps. The ball just didn't come his way. But, yeah, I'm sure they'll want to get Jeremiah some rest. Right? Like, you know, they're not going to. They're not wanting to play him every single snap this year. So there'll be opportunity for Chris Henry to play. But, yeah, I don't. I don't think he'll be the starter. I don't think either freshman's gonna start. If we're. If we're like, if we're considering Chris Henry and Jacquiating Guilford like the two top guys in the freshman group, I don't think either one will start. I think Dracquiad and Guilford probably isn't a slightly better situation in terms of being able to compete for playing time because he's going up against Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker, not Jeremiah Smith. But. And honestly, like, it's probably if. If it ends up that Ohio State doesn't have to play Chris Henry Jr. And Jaquad and Guilford a lot as true freshman. It means the other guys were good. So like, I don't, I don't think it's, I don't think it's a bad thing, but I don't. I mean, Chris Henry stands out, man. He's gigantic. He is every bit of 6, 5 and he can really run. And Ryan Day said on Tuesday that, that Chris Henry called like a pretty big post play when we weren't in there. So I don't. There's nothing that I've seen from either of those young receivers. It's like, I don't know, I don't think they can play. It's just more about what else is in the room. But I think it's fine if either one is more of like a, you know, featured player this year than he is. Anything approaching kind of being a star on the offense or a guy who needs, needs the ball a lot.
- [38:40]
A
Yep. Anything else you want to throw in?
- [38:44]
B
I was, I know you noted this on Tuesday. I was a little uncertain as to where like Jay Timm the freshman would, would end up. He's like, with the safeties, he's at nickel. So is there a little. Which I think you also mentioned, and then the other, for the other freshman corner, Jordan Thomas. Right. Like the, the guy who's a freshman who looks like he's been in a college weight room for three years, like he's just a really good looking young athlete who's got length and you can tell he's explosive. Got to watch a drill where they weren't going up against anybody. We got to see his change of direction and how he sinks his hips and like it's all there. He's, he's incredibly fluid as, as a corner. So I, I don't know. I would be, I would be pretty surprised, I think, if cornerback this year is just Jermaine Matthews and Devin Sanchez are playing every snap. Yeah, I think, I think, I think Jordan Thomas as a freshman is going to be too good to not play some. And I think Dom Dominic Kelly as a sophomore is probably going to be too good to not play some.
- [39:59]
A
And I'll be very curious if they just get into some situations and maybe that's what Jay Timmons behind her a little in, in the slot would be. But will they ever get in situations if they have a team that's like just a super dynamic slot receiver who's like their primary offensive weapon? Like, do you try to do something there, especially on passing downs where you slide Jermaine Matthews inside and put another outside corner out there, right?
- [40:22]
B
Yeah.
- [40:22]
A
Earl Little, as you know, Lorenzo Styles, he's so fast, and it's like he, he could do some different things. And we've talked about this a lot. Sometimes the guy in the slot is more like the corner. Sometimes he's more like a safety. Earl Little is a safety.
- [40:34]
B
Yes.
- [40:35]
A
So, like, Earl Little is going to come down there and play like a linebacker sometimes. But if, like, if it's Earl Little covering, you know, the late great Rondale Moore or, or a player like that, like, are you a thousand percent comfortable with that matchup, especially with that matchup on third and seven, or maybe even just like your dime look becomes Earl Little drops back and you have some kind of thing where Jermaine Matthews moves inside and you're looking for another outside corner, and maybe it's Jordan Thomas. But I think you're right. I think there's room for some of those young corners to work in. And I, I think we maybe agree. Jordan Thomas feels like he's first among the young corners two practices in.
- [41:14]
B
Yeah, I'm. Again, we've not seen a lot of, like, good on good stuff. I'm very eager to see some of that later in the spring. But as you've mentioned before, not, not every freshman gets out there, runs around, and the way he moves, just like, yeah, that guy belongs here. But I think Jordan Thomas is one of those guys.
- [41:29]
A
He's fluid and he's jacked.
- [41:32]
B
Yes. Yeah, his arms are huge. I don't think it's huge. I haven't seen a corner with arms like that, to be honest.
- [41:37]
A
Because sometimes, like, guys, like, move around like they're skinny and fluid and sometimes they're jacked and a little awkward. And it's like, Jordan Thomas, there's, there's. He's got it. Both just. Offensive line. Very quickly, it was the same as Tuesday, which is just notable that it's like, Gabe Van Sickle is the right guard now. That doesn't mean he's the right guard against Ball State in the opener. But, like, it's, you know, it wasn't like, hey, it's Thursday. So Gabe Van Sickle ran with the ones at right guard on Tuesday, and it's somebody else's turn to run with the ones on Thursday. It's still Gabe Van Sickle. So good for gay fan Sickle. He must have had a good off season because again, like, you just look at pieces. It's like the second team offensive line, it's Carter Low at left tackle and Ian More right tackle and Jake Cook at left guard. It's like they got some guys in here. You know, if they were looking. Josh Padilla still feels like he's working his way back, but like if they had, like they have options there. And it's like Gabe Van Sickles out there with the ones with all the other. With the other four returning starters so far being treated like he's returning starter. So again, that's not. I don't think that's what we would have picked to see. That's not. That's not what we would have expected to. Predicted to see through two practices. But it's what it is.
- [42:46]
B
It's. Yeah, it's not what I would have predicted. And I would say the same thing. Like the. The safety spot where we figured it'd be Earl Little, Jaylen McLean and Terry Moore on day one, it was her, a little Jalen McLean and Leroy Roker, and it was still that on Thursday. So again, very much subject to change. And I. And part of that could be getting Terry Moore back up to speed because he didn't play last year. But like, Leroy Roker is going to play. I think. I think that much is. Is apparent. They really like him and he's going
- [43:16]
A
to have a role. I have a terrible memory, but I'm trying to think of the guys like you show up and you didn't think they were going to be starters and they're starters and you don't want to assume too much. And it's early and it's just spring and it's plenty of practices left. And then you get to the opener of the season and they're starters and they were a starter. They were a surprising starter on the day. Day one of spring practice, and it carried all the way through to the season. And I think Tyvis Powell was that. I think maybe like we walked, it was like, oh, Thai this Powell. And then Ty was. Powell didn't leave the field for three years. It's like, okay, that was real. So I like, this could be what I. I don't know.
- [43:55]
B
Yeah.
- [43:55]
A
But Leroy Roker, like, it feels like they like him. It feels like he does the right stuff. Feels like he's got a little something to him. And so if it's like, well, we had this plan and we brought in all these guys and then Leroy Roker was like, nope, that's my spot.
- [44:07]
B
It's like, okay, yeah, I. We'll see. I think because I just sort of envisioned Terry Moore like Being the center fielder while Earl Little and Jayla McLean, like, kind of of orbit him and. And move. Move around some. And it seems like thus far, Jalen McLean is the one who's been back and Roker and Little are. The guys are kind of playing up a little more.
- [44:28]
A
Yeah. Maybe Leroy Roker is going to be blowing people up all year. So, again, it's one of those things, like, I don't. We don't want to say, well, this is how it was in the first two days of spring practice. That's how it's going to be. But sometimes that is what happens. So it's like, we don't want to read too much into it, but I don't want to read not enough into it and be like, oh, it's just two practices. Don't Leroy Roker with the ones. It's just two practices.
- [44:52]
B
They're not in the business of wasting their time. Right. They only got 15 of these, so everything's done intentionally. Yeah.
- [45:01]
A
So. And like we said, Terry Moore had an ACL surgery, but it's. He missed last year, but it's. He's kind of pretty far removed from that surgery and not like a. You know, we. So this might just be about Leroy Rooker doing his thing. Anything else before we go?
- [45:15]
B
Basketball team won.
- [45:16]
A
Oh, it's over. They won.
- [45:18]
B
Yeah.
- [45:20]
A
Play Michigan Friday. A little rivalry. Little rivalry between Ohio State and Michigan. I have seen. I, I definitely saw. I'm sure you saw it because you, you are more tuned to the basketball team than I am. There was a bracket that had. I think it was Philly. Ohio state as an 8 in Philly 8 or a 9. But the 8, 9 game was against Clemson and it was opposite Michigan. And it was like, like, we're doing this. Like, we're doing like a dabo Sharon double header. Like, let's go. Like if, like, I don't know if the basketball team gets tired of, like, when we does talk about football, but I'm not sure if. If Ohio State is playing Clemson for the right to play Michigan, that's as football as you get. So that'd be kind of crazy.
- [46:04]
B
It would be crazy. And I do think beating Iowa for whatever. 10 seconds of basketball talk, this is another quadrant one win for Ohio State to beat Iowa on a neutral, neutral floor. I think Ohio State is very much, like, locked into the 8, 9 line now. So they're gonna. They're gonna have to. They're going somewhere with a one, I would think.
- [46:22]
A
Okay, interesting.
- [46:23]
B
Unless they beat Michigan. But.
- [46:26]
A
Yeah, unless they win the Big Ten tournament.
- [46:28]
B
They're like a four. So that's also possible. Yeah.
- [46:33]
A
All right. So those are the two practices we got this week. Ohio State is on spring break next week. We will not have football practices. We will not have football interviews. But the Big Ten basketball tournament starts next week. We will still be talking about, oh yeah, the NCAA baseball Big One. That Big Ten basketball tournament is a two week affair. Now if you, if you play on the first Tuesday, you might have to win 11 games to win the Big Ten tournament, which is when they have a 30, 16 Big Ten. That's what will happen. Will be a two week tournament. March Madness next week. Depending where Ohio State is, Bill Landis might make an appearance there. We will be talking about it basketball a little bit, but we'll still be talking football next week even though there's not practices. And then after that week we're back into it. Thirteen spring practices left leading up to the spring on April, spring game on April 18, which is a reminder. Bill Landis People can get 18 off their subscription to our substack during spring practice. Practice.
- [47:28]
B
They sure can. Billanddogosu.substack.com Spring18 I also think if you just go to our main subscription page, it should show up there automatically. That link is also pinned to my Twitter profile at Bill Landis 25 yeah, 18 off an annual subscription available from now through the end of spring practice.
- [47:49]
A
Lots of stuff that we're going to be writing over on the sub stack. We're going to keep pumping out the shows over there as well. Shows here. We're glad you're with us. We're grateful that you choose to let a little Bill and Doug into your life when it comes to Ohio State football. So if you're going on spring break or whatever, like, great, have a lovely time. We'll keep doing what we do and we'll talk to you soon. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.