The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Is Ohio State's Defense the Best Unit in College Football?
Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Doug Lesmerises (solo episode)
Theme: Evaluating Ohio State’s defensive dominance—Is it the best unit in college football in 2025?

Episode Overview

Doug Lesmerises dives deep into Ohio State’s 2025 defensive performance, questioning whether this group stands as the best single unit (offense or defense) in the country. He contrasts advanced stats and on-field evidence, discusses the effects of the Buckeyes’ defense on opponents (notably Texas and Arch Manning), and compares OSU’s coordinator hire to similar moves across college football.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Josh into the Debate: How Good Is Ohio State’s Defense?

• Initial Premise: Is OSU’s defense “the best unit in the country?” Doug begins by explaining that on a surface and statistical level, the answer isn’t so clear-cut this early in the season.
  • “I started diving into the numbers... I thought maybe... it might be like, oh my gosh, they're number one in the country in this, number two in the country in this. It's not actually the case.” (02:00)
• The advanced stats are “good, very good, for sure. Not like, holy moly,” but some numbers are simply average or above-average.

2. Statistical Deep Dive: Advanced Metrics Review

• Key stats (after 3 games):
  • Stuff Rate: 25th nationally (“good, but not ridiculous”)
  • Havoc Rate: In the 50s, not notable
  • Turnovers Forced: Four in three games (T-48th nationally)
  • Sacks: Seven (2.33/game, T-48th)
  • Tackles for Loss: Seventeenth (67th nationally)
  • Scoring Defense: 2nd in nation (5.3 points/game); only BYU has allowed fewer
  • Yards Allowed: 227.7 yards/game (14th)
  • Passing Defense: 118 yards/game (11th)
• Synthesis: “Statistically, there’s not like a secret story to tell… but I think there’s a very public story to tell about what Ohio State is doing defensively.” (04:00)

3. Signature Performance: The Texas Game & The ‘Broken’ Arch Manning

• OSU’s defense suffocated the Texas offense (held them to 7 points).
• Anecdotal insight: Some analysts believe the defense’s week one showing may have “broken” Arch Manning. Doug suggests OSU’s varied coverages may have left Manning so confused he’s still “seeing ghosts.”
  • “It might have broken his brain and he doesn’t trust what he’s seeing at all right now... If your mind is slowing you down, it’s hard for your body to catch up.” (06:30)
• Raises the question: Was Texas overrated, or is holding Texas to 7 points truly impressive?

4. Contextualizing OSU’s Defensive Identity

• Other top teams are engaged in shootouts (high-scoring games).
  • OSU’s defense stands out for making their marquee matchup about “suffocation,” not offense.
  • “It’s that stark contrast of man, teams are letting it rip... and in Ohio State–Texas, it was a story of suffocation.” (09:15)
• Doug draws a distinction between crediting great offenses and recognizing the rare value of a dominant defense.

5. Doug’s Verdict: Is OSU’s Defense the Nation’s Best Unit?

• On the “best unit in the country” question, Doug’s honest answer: “I don’t know. It’s too early to tell.”
  • “My answer’s not ‘no.’... but it’s also not ‘yes’. My answer is: I don’t know. It’s too early to tell, which is not much of a conclusion. But I want to be honest about it.” (10:29)
• Fremeau Drive-Based Ratings:
  • OSU is #1 defense (0.74)
  • Texas #2 (0.69)
  • Oregon's offense is higher (0.85)
  • OSU’s offense is second at 0.69
  • Preseason numbers are still baked in (about 50–60%), which tempers how much these reflect current performance.
• Success Rate (play-based):
  • OSU is 20th overall, 15th among power conference teams.

6. What Does This Defense Do Best?

• Limiting Explosive Plays: Only 4 plays of 20+ yards allowed all season—tied for 4th fewest in the nation.
  • “What they are doing the very best right now...[is] they’re not letting anybody get over their head.” (13:10)
• Scheme & Intelligence: Matt Patricia has them playing “really smart, really sophisticated.”
  • Not chasing havoc at all costs—defense is focused on eliminating big plays and making offenses work.

7. Comparative Segment: Recent Coordinator Hires at Elite Programs

• Jim Knowles (Penn State): Defense statistically playing well vs. lesser opposition.
• Tom Allen (Clemson): Defensive performance not catastrophic, but failed when it mattered (gave up game-winning drives versus Georgia Tech).
  • “In a moment where a Tom Allen defense could have stood up, it didn’t happen.” (17:39)
• Chris Ash (Notre Dame): Early disaster—team’s aggressive identity lost; system not matching personnel, leading to blown coverages and poor performances in close losses.
  • “He’s asking players recruited to play in-your-face man to read everything out as receivers fly past them... A fast defense becomes slow and an aggressive defense becomes reactionary.” (22:15)

8. The Big Picture: OSU’s Defensive Growth & Remaining Questions

• The defense isn’t “on fire,” but it’s highly disciplined and fundamentally solid.
• Key attribute: “What I think we maybe would define them the most by is what they are not... and what they are not is on fire.”
• Room for improvement: More tackles for loss, more turnovers, greater run-stopping potential.
• Upcoming schedule will offer fresh challenges (Washington, Minnesota, Illinois), testing the defense’s sustainability.
  • “Jonah Coleman at Washington is one of the best running backs in the country... As Ohio State gets into Washington and Minnesota and Illinois, let’s understand how good Ohio State’s defense has been. Let’s not go too far in thinking that the Buckeyes are infallible there defensively.” (24:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Doug Lesmerises on contrasting expectations:
  “My answer is I don’t know. It’s too early to tell, which is not much of a conclusion. But I want to be honest about it.” (10:29)

• On limiting big plays:
  “There’s only four plays of 20 yards or more that they’ve allowed, which is really good over the course [of three games].” (13:25)

• On the Arch Manning fallout:
  “It might have broken his brain and he doesn’t trust what he’s seeing at all right now.” (06:30)

• On Chris Ash’s struggles at Notre Dame:
  “A fast defense becomes slow, and an aggressive defense becomes reactionary, and a defense that had a great secondary now has guys running by them.” (22:15)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:21 — Setting up the big question: Is OSU’s defense “the best unit in college football?”
• 02:15 — Advanced stats review (stuff rate, havoc rate, TFLs, turnovers, scoring defense)
• 06:30 — Did OSU’s defense “break” Arch Manning? The Texas anecdote
• 09:15 — The contrast with other high-scoring top-25 matchups: OSU’s suffocating identity
• 10:29 — Doug’s honest, inconclusive verdict: It’s too soon to declare OSU the best
• 11:50 — Drive-based ratings & success rate evaluation
• 13:10 — What OSU does best: Limiting big plays; schematic intelligence
• 17:39 — Comparing other big-name defensive hires: Penn State, Clemson, Notre Dame
• 22:15 — Deep dive on Notre Dame’s defensive struggles under Chris Ash
• 24:10 — Looking ahead: Can OSU sustain or improve their defensive level?

Flow & Tone

Doug blends analytic rigor (advanced metrics, national stats) with highly conversational, accessible explanations and impassioned, anecdotal storytelling (especially about Arch Manning and the Texas game). He refuses to leap to messy headlines or overblown conclusions, stressing both optimism for Ohio State’s future and humility about the limits of the early-season sample size.

Summary

In sum:
Ohio State’s defense has been among the very best in college football three weeks into the 2025 season, especially notable for its discipline, intelligence, and almost total elimination of big plays. Yet, advanced metrics and comparative context counsel against prematurely dubbing it “the best unit in the country.” The defense’s true ceiling will be revealed in coming matchups, but OSU fans can be confident they have one of the nation’s top-tier groups—possibly on the verge of even more.