← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Jeremiah Smith-Carnell Tate concern level; biggest threats to an Ohio State repeat: Around the Shoe
00:44:36
It's Around the Shoe with five more college football topics around Ohio State football. What should be the level of concern about the injury status of Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate on a scale of 1-100?
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Transcript155 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:06]
B
Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lee, Maurice and Bill Landis, joined every Monday by two great members of the Ohio State football beat. This week, from the Delaware Gazette, Dylan Davis. Thank you for being here.
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A
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, fellas.
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B
And from menace to sports, Chris Drew. Chris, thanks for being here.
- [00:26]
C
Yeah, really excited. Thank you for having me.
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B
So, Chris, how long have you been around Ohio State football? Talking Ohio State football. I know you talk some other stuff, but how long you been talking about the Buckeyes?
- [00:37]
C
Probably since 2018. It's funny, I was a board op on WAKR to handle the phones, and last time you and I spoke, I was late calling you and you let me know that I was late calling you for. For a guest appearance. So that was kind of the early parts of my. My Ohio State football, I guess, tenure. But no, it was. It was my fault, so don't worry about it.
- [00:56]
B
No, this is always one of those. When it's old, jerky, old Doug comes back to bite. Slightly more mellowed older Doug. Every now and then I'm like, why was that guy like that? Why is that?
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C
No, no, it was. It was good. I needed it. I. It wasn't my show, but I actually got asked to call you from somebody else because they were late already, and so I, you know, took it because they knew that you were going to say something about the lateness. But that was like the early days of my Ohio State football coverage, so. Well, it wasn't real coverage. I was just handling the ph for, like, a weekend show. What an.
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B
What an introduction. Like, oh, God, make Chris call this jerk. Okay, Blanket apologies, actually, to everyone that I have wronged in my career of being a maniac Ohio State beat writer. Blanket apologies.
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C
You didn't wrong anybody. And honestly, like, when I. When I saw. When you reached out, it was like, wow, this is really cool. It was kind of like a full circle moment for me because then, like, nobody knew who I was. I wasn't even on a microphone, and like, here we are. So, you know, I'm thankful you. You let me know to be punctual.
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A
You.
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B
You just should. You. When I reached out to say you want to be on the show, you just should have yelled at me and.
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C
Said.
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B
That'S the full circle moment. Thank you for being here, Chris. Dylan Davis. How long you been doing this Ohio State thing?
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A
This is my seventh year on the beat. My first year was 2019, so my entire time on the beat has coincided with Brian's time at Ohio State. So I've been there the entire step of the way. So.
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B
Yeah, that's like you come in with the new coach, then it's like you're. You're good to go in lockstep, man.
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C
Yeah.
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A
It would have been nice to experience just what Urban was like and being, you know, in the woody at times with. With Urban. But it's been nice to just, you know, have seen Ryan grow throughout the years and how he's grown and be there every step of the way there. So that's been cool.
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B
Okay. Did I ever do anything to you? Otherwise would I jerk to you?
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A
You've never wronged me before. Nothing but love for you. Doug, you and Chris can sort that stuff out when the show's over with, but we're all good.
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B
Bill, you want to tell any Doug jerk stories real quick before we get going? I think you probably.
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D
We only have like 40 minutes, so.
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B
That'S an off season show. We'll just have everybody that Doug screamed.
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C
At in his life.
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B
All right, we're going to do five Ohio State topics. Talking about the Buckeyes. We're going to start number one. Chris, we'll start with you. On a scale of one to 100, 100 is like pure freak out. One is. It's fine. What would you say is your number for how concerned folks should be about. About what's going on with Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate in their health?
- [03:19]
C
Probably like a 77. I think it's a C plus in the good old. The good old scale of, I guess, academics. I'm a little bit concerned because I think like, obviously when the best player in the country like goes down, like there is some concern there. I feel like some of my nightmare feel comes back some PTSD from like previous Ohio State teams that you see like really good players go down and they're really good players for a reason. So that's probably my concern level. More concerned that I want to be just because like when you go through a season, it's like, what's the one thing that Ohio State has that is an advantage every time they step onto any field? And it's like that receiver core and it just makes Julian saying that much, that much better. So for me it's about a 77, not quite 80, definitely concern level. I do think this team, though is super deep everywhere else so they can kind of get by. But obviously, like, you want healthy Jeremiah kind of going down the home stretch.
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B
Yeah, yeah. I'll be very curious where everyone lands on this number. Dylan what you got?
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A
Yeah, I put it at about a 40 out of 100, so. Which would put it somewhere on the scale of like, mildly concerned, but like, maybe slightly. Slightly less than mildly concerned. Look, the timing of it's not great. You know, you're heading into the penultimate week of the regular season to be. Deal for Jeremiah to be dealing with a nagging injury. Yeah, it's not a great place to be in and certainly, you know, with Cardinal having not played the last two weeks at all. And you hope that he can play, you know, this week because that's a tough spot to be going up to Ann Arbor having not played and who knows how much he's really been practiced for three weeks prior to that. So the timing of it's not great. Look, the, the inconsistencies in the run game make it so that like, Ohio State really needs that big advantage in, in the past game. So, you know, that's not great as well. But, you know, the. One of the reasons I put it at a 40 and not maybe a little bit less than that was because, you know, you guys were in press conferences with Ryan when we talked about Jackson, Smith and Jigba back in 2022. Doug, you alluded to it in the press conference on. After the game on Saturday. You know, I remember, you know, when he, when Jackson came back for the Iowa game and he played sparingly, you know, and, and it appeared he left that game with an injury. He was hurt when he, you know, when he left that game. At least it appeared like that to everybody else, you know, in the, in the following week they played Penn State and there were questions to Ryan about, you know, Jackson's availability that week. And I believe it was Austin Ward who asked Brian if, hey, did Jackson hurt himself again, like a different injury in that Iowa game? And Ryan downplayed that know and told him, you know, that it was just a pitch count thing. And you know, I, I didn't really like, love answer to it, so I just wanted to get like, directly, like direct response to Ryan. So I asked a few questions later. Hey, Ryan, just to be clear, Jackson didn't leave that Iowa game for any other reason than a pitch count. He wasn't hurt for any, you know, any way. And Ryan said no. And I said, so that means he's on track to play on Saturday against Penn State. Ryan said, that's the plan. History, you know, never played again. Jackson play again. So that, like, I understand why people are concerned in that regard because there's. We've seen Ryan, you know, kind of handle an injury where he just didn't want to be forthcoming with it. So it makes you wonder when Ryan says he's told you to Doug, definitively, like, no, there's no long term concern, you know, do you buy that? I don't know. Yeah, there's reason not to buy it. You know, there's precedent on that.
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B
So, yeah, that has to be leaking into the minds of Ohio State fans as they, they try to sort through all of this build up.
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C
Right.
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B
It has to affect it somehow.
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D
It affects me. I know that nightmare fuel.
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C
That's the nightmare for the fact that like, Ryan has honestly never been super honest and forthcoming with the injuries. So, yeah, like, that's the thing that's really concerning. That's the thing that freaks me out. It's like, oh, like this is a nagging thing that, you know, he's dealing with something serious. It's like, okay, like you said this to us before.
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D
Yeah, yeah.
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C
And, and which asn, like that team wins the national title. So it's like, like my concern level is a little bit higher because it's like the, the goal, the want, the push is to go back to back because this team looks like in the field full of, you know, no real dragons. Like, they are the dragon. And so that, that's why my concern level is a little bit higher than just the 40. Because we've, like Dylan said, we've seen it before. This is the night.
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D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that. And that's why, like I would say, based off what I've observed of like Jeremiah playing, I thought he looked fine. Right. And, and Carnell went through warm ups against Purdue and he looked fine. So based off that, my number would be low. But I don't believe anything Ohio State says about injuries. Like Ryan Day. Listen, he's a great coach. He's a standup guy. There's a lot of things I like about Ryan Day. Don't believe a word he says about injuries. So, like, because of that, I'm like a 62, I think, because I, I just, I just don't know where the truth lies. Like, my guess is that we see them play against Michigan and everything will be fine from there. That's also kind of a hope, right? Like I, I like on behalf of Ohio State fans.
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A
Right.
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D
But I won't pretend to know like exactly what the deal is. And because of the way that Ohio State chooses to talk about this stuff, it just, it just leaves a lot up for interpretation. So I'm going to Be on the higher end until that changes.
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A
That's a good point. And I guess. I guess I separated into, like, what I think about the injury itself and how injured I think they are. That lowers my concern level. But if you're just talking about the way Ohio State handles this stuff, that also raises that number as well.
- [08:14]
B
So, yeah, that's kind of how I did it. Like, to me, it's. I'm still maybe at like around a 5% of like, is this really going to be a thing like that? These injuries are devastating, but then to me, it is like a 95. Like, if they are, it is. It changes who Ohio State is. So I'm going to be at 50, 95 plus 5 divided by 2. But, like, it's. It's hard because obviously, as you guys kind of said it all, it does factor in a little bit. But the one thing I also will say is it felt like some of the spit stuff with JSN is like, he got hurt in the first game, hamstring. He tried to come back week three against Toledo and played some. So, like, for instance, Carnell, if it's like, okay, well, Carnell felt something. Didn't play against Purdue, didn't play against ucla, I would assume, like, why would he play against Rucker, against Rutgers at this point? Maybe they're trying to learn some lessons from JSN of, did we try to push the guy?
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D
Did he.
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B
Did he come back too soon? We're trying to be super careful. You know, Jeremiah, you know, did. Did play and did not look great walking off the field, but he seemed okay while he was playing. So there's maybe some stuff here that I. I think you have to factor the JSN stuff in and how they talk about it, but I also wonder if there were some actual. Okay, this is how we're going to handle it. That might be helping them now. But, Chris, I think nightmare fuel is still the right word.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Great. Now, everyone watching this, enjoy your nightmares. If you have nightmares about Ohio State's receiver room and passing it tonight, please direct your inquiries to Chris Drew.
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C
I think it's just both of them, Doug. I think it's both. I know something like, that's like the real nightmare feel because I think you can survive one or the. And it's like the chance that, like, neither one of these injuries are serious at all. It's like, okay, like, I don't know. I don't know. And I'm trying to. I'm trying to be. I'm trying to tell myself look, it just. It was cold, and when it gets cold, the muscle tightened up and that's why he was limping. I've lived like that when it's cold, too. Yeah. But I could.
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A
I don't know.
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D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, it was like 60 degrees. Yeah, yeah.
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C
Hey, they had heaters on the UCLA sideline. So he's from Florida. I don't know. That's right.
- [10:16]
B
Yeah, yeah. Send him back to Florida for two weeks and warm him up and get.
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C
Him from Ready for Fuel. Dude, that's what.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Nightmare fuel. All right, we'll move the question to Dylan. We will start with you. What do you feel like is the. The biggest external threat something that another team of the way another team might do something, a type of thing that an outside team or situation might present to Ohio State? The biggest external threat to Ohio State's chances of repeating as national champs?
- [10:43]
A
Yeah, I thought about this a lot and went through, you know, the national landscape and full disclosure, I think Ohio State's the best team in the country. Not to say that they don't have any question marks or things that could potentially be in Achill Heel and then falling short of their goals, but I think Ohio State's the best team in the country, so. And thinking about what's really out there that would concern me as an Ohio State fan, like, look, Georgia's playing really well right now. Playing very well right now. Gunner Stockton's playing very well. But, you know, like, their D line is one that I'm not entirely sure, you know, gives Ohio State a ton of problems. Like Ohio State's, like, obvious maybe potential weaknesses up front on the offensive line. And. And that's been talked about a lot. And it's not just a Tiger thing either. I think a lot of people want to put that on Tegra and make it a tiger thing. It's not always Tegra. And some of these issues Ohio State's had up front. So, you know, I. I don't. I don't know that Georgia's defensive line against Ohio State's offensive line is like a huge, you know, disadvantage for Ohio State. I look at Indiana as well, and I don't think Indiana's run game is good enough to. I think Ohio State would have a fairly not easy, but Ohio State would be able to make Indiana one dimensional and make, you know, Fernando Mendoza have to throw the football. And we've seen Fernando Mendoza make a lot of mistakes lately. You know, NBA kills with the football. So, like, I just go through these teams and I see like, there's. There's obvious ways that I think Ohio State could beat all these teams. So I don't see a big external threat. If I had to pick one, one thing, I think it's probably Indiana, but, you know, I just. I struggle to pick an external threat that. That's really dangerous for Ohio State. I think the biggest issues are dangerous to Ohio State are internal threats, which we'll get to in a little bit.
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B
Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's well said, Bill. You got one.
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D
I was just sort of thinking about how the playoff bracket might play out, and I do think if Ohio State beats Michigan, beats Indiana, gets to the Rose Bowl, I honestly do think we could have another Rose bowl where the two best teams in the country are playing each other.
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B
Yeah.
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D
And, like, because it does feel like we're kind of cruising towards a Notre Dame, Oregon, 8, 9 game that would send that winner to play potentially Ohio State in a Rose Bowl. And I don't know that I definitively think that Oregon and Notre Dame are, like, top three, top four. But. But I. I think I'm about there, especially if Oregon can get healthy at the receiver position before the playoff time comes. So it could just be that Ohio State ends up with sort of like, the toughest draw right of the playoff field and has to face a very good Notre Dame or very good Oregon team in the Rose Bowl. That's not to say that Ohio State can't beat those teams. We've seen them do it, and they can, but you're just not being rewarded for being the number one seed in that. In that position. If you look like SP plus. Right. Notre Dame is fifth and Oregon is fourth. So, like, you're potentially playing a top five team as a number one seed in your quarterfinal game, which I. I wouldn't love if I were any number one seed. So. But aside from that, like, I'm kind of within. Like, I do. I do think this is the best team in the country, but I do think that the draw can matter. Right. Obviously, we've solved for Penn State. Last year, the draw was great. They. They didn't have to break a sweat to get to the semifinals. You know, Ohio State could be on the. On the flip side of that this year, where, like, it is the number one team. It is the best team, but also it might have to play the best possible opponent it could play in the quarterfinals.
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B
And both those teams you mentioned, Bill, are teams. Ohio State ended their season last year.
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D
Yeah. They would have. Highly motivated.
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B
Yeah. You know, not that Ohio State's not going to be motivated but like to be like the, the revenge factor there would be interesting. I was just thinking about, and I certainly am not questioning the Ohio State defense, but I'm just like trying to run through like the best offenses Ohio State has faced. Again, I still think Washington has a good offense and that like Damon Williams Jr. Has been good every week except against Ohio State, Michigan. So like, what does that say? Well, maybe it says that like he's a good quarterback, but he's not ready to be great against a great defense. Right. But going into that Washington game, I thought, man, they're balanced, they can run it, they can throw it. And so like the idea of a really truly balanced offense, maybe that's predicated on a great run game first, but a quarterback that can make plays behind it and then it's like back to like, who is that? It's like, well, Bama can't run it, so it's not them. And it's like Georgia, like Gunner Stockton is making plays lately like a maniacs, like maybe it's them, but then I still think it's Oregon and Notre Dame who are the two greatest threats there that like the way Oregon's run the ball lately. And then can Dante Moore make throws in clutch situations? Yes. Jeremiah Love and Darian Price, I think that's the best run game in the country for Notre Dame. Can CJ Carr make plays when needed? I think yes. He can also get a little loose with the football and I'm sure Ohio State would get some plays on him too. But I think just like that level of. It's not that I doubt the Ohio State defense, but if it's like a, like a run for like a really good run first offense, I mean that's just like ball, right? It's like, oh, I mean the thing that would be a challenge to any opposing team, but still I think that might be out there a little bit for Ohio State. Chris, what's the external threat for you?
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C
Well, I guess I want to ask a question first, maybe to Bill. Who do you think is a big worst matchup for Ohio State, Oregon or Notre Dame? Out of curiosity, because like, for Oregon like, like Dante more recently has strung together some games and some throws. It's like, okay, like I know you can take over a playoff game if you need to, but the run game obviously that Doug was alluding to is ridiculous. And I'm just curious your thoughts because what, what scares me more is like quarterbacks who can get really, really hot traditionally more Than like run games. Because I've seen, I mean, obviously like, like being like graduating high school and like watching how Ohio State shut down Melvin Gordon to go win a national title. Like, I guess I never worried about run games, even, even against, you know, in 2020 against Alabama, it was like Naja Harris, like, had a tough go. It was like, it was like a quarterback and receiver and they got hot. That kind of concerned me more. So I guess I'll ask both of you, all three of you, like, because for me, the three teams that are like the external threats are the ones we mentioned, like Notre Dame, Oregon and then Georgia too. I think Georgia right now is kind of like hitting a level. And Mike Bobo's done a better job recently and Gunner Stockton is also picking up first rounds with his legs too. And I think that's a unique element that adds to the run game. So I guess like between the two, it's like, what's, what's the worst matchup? Oregon or Notre Dame?
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D
I, I would go Oregon, I think. Yeah, I, I think more can do more to hurt you than, than C.J. car can. I think when healthy Oregon skill is better than Notre Dame's. I think Oregon's offensive line is probably better than Notre Dame's and maybe up front defensively they might be a little better than Notre Dame too.
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C
So you go away from the run game because I think like the best player on those two teams, likely, if you rank the top three top two players, both of them play for Notre Dame, like kind of in a vacuum. But yeah, like, Dante Moore is like, is like the three point shooter. It's like if he gets hot, it can ruin a whole game plan no matter what happens underneath.
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D
Yeah, no, you make a really good point about like these, these stud running backs we've seen Ohio State play. They play Ohio State and they run for like 40 yards. So yeah, I think that world could be out there if they were to play, like, if they were to play Jeremiah Love.
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A
Yeah, yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you, Chris. There's no run game in the country that worries me when it comes to, you know, Ohio State. So I don't think anybody's going to line up and just push Ohio State around up front. So certainly the teams that can make, you know, more plays in the past game would concern me more. That's Oregon in my opinion, Bill, as you alluded to, like Oregon skill positions, like, they're better out wide than Notre Dame is. And I think Dante Moore is a better quarterback than C.J. carr. So, like, Oregon was certainly scaring me more than that, than the Notre Dame.
- [17:48]
B
I do think. Chris. Like, as much as I'm very eager for Big Ten teams in Ohio State to face SEC teams in the playoff, like, I'm also pretty eager to see Ohio State against Oregon or Notre Dame or both, depending how the bracket falls, because I do think, like, these matchups are the most. Maybe the most difficult, but also the most interesting.
- [18:07]
C
No, I agree. And also, like, if you can get two national championships packed into one year, like, I would take it because that's what.
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A
I think.
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C
That's what he's on it up for. Like, here we go. If we are in that side of the bracket and it's Notre Dame and it's Oregon and it's us, like, that is the national title. And, you know, and then I'll just like the SEC team on the other side. Like, that'll be the coordination. Like, cool. Like, we already won the Natty. The coordination is next. So.
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B
Yeah.
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C
Firmly agree. No. Firmly agree.
- [18:29]
D
Yeah. Yeah.
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B
All right, let's go. Internal threat. Bill, we'll start with you. So, so other than the receiver injuries, when. When it's go time for Ohio State in the playoff against the other best teams in the country, what do you think potentially is the internal thing that could trip up the Buckeyes?
- [18:46]
D
I. I will be honest that there's, like, there's not one that's sort of, like, screaming at me because. Because I think the obvious one you would go to is, is Ohio State's offensive line. Should they come against a defense, it just, like, really gets after it. I think, like, probably pass rush wise.
- [18:59]
B
Right.
- [18:59]
D
Like Texas Tech, for instance, if they were to get that matchup, I think that could potentially be a tough one. But I thought offensive line stuff was going to derail them last year, and it didn't. So, like, I can. I can only go so far with that concern. I do agree with what Dylan said, because as we've talked about Ohio State's offensive line, we have really sort of hyper focused on right guard, and I would say probably Austin. Several. Like, by and large, has been very good, I think, at left tackle, but there have been issues, I think, creeping up in almost every other spot on the offensive line, probably most often at right guard.
- [19:26]
C
But.
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D
But it is fair, I think, to point out that it is not only right guard. You can watch a game and find breakdowns just about. Just about everywhere other than left tackle. So I'd like to just see that group continue, like, rounding in the form, like I wanted to see Ohio State figure out exactly what it wants to do at right guard. What? And it seems like they want to rotate. So it's like, okay, well who are you rotating? Because I don't think he can rotate three. So you get Josh Padilla back and then make a choice between him and Gabe Van Sickle if he's going to be your rotational right guard and roll from there. And the other, the other four positions I think stay the same. But you know, I, I still have questions about what exactly the ceiling of that group is once it is sort of intact and you have that plan moving forward. And then if they were to encounter a team that just has a ferocious pass rush, I do think it could be a bit of a tough day.
- [20:07]
B
Yeah, that's good. I'll be curious if anybody thinks this is any lingering issue at all. I still wonder a tiny bit about the art of play calling offensively, that if and when they feel like they get up against a great defensive play caller, whether people would think maybe could that be Wink Martindale at Michigan, would it be, I don't know, the Chris Ash at Notre Dame? I don't know. Could it be like Glenn Schumann and the Georgia defense maybe? Right. That is everybody like a hundred percent in on. Brian Hartline's got this. Brian Day is helping him. Like they're good to go. Or does anybody have any lingering. Not that they don't have good players, but like just sequencing plays and making sure is this the third down call that you want in this spot, everything will be okay.
- [20:49]
C
It's like I use a lot of cross reference sports stuff like Brian Hartline and this all I said offense, like play calling wise is like the pitcher that has a really good fastball, really good curveball, really good slider. But it's like, okay, you're a thrower, can you pitch? Like the sequencing, I think it's really important. It really kind of bugs me because sometimes, you know, it takes elite feel, I think, and that comes with time and almost like a step further. Doug, I like, I think about red zone play calling and that's kind of where I get a little bit worried. And when you say like internal threat and then play calling, I think internal, like inside the red zone kind of concerns me because one of the staples for like a Ryan Day offense seems to be struggling in the red zone at time times. And when you have a play caller that doesn't have like the seasoning that other play callers have in terms of like sequencing, like you mentioned, I think I worry about that. I think I worry about getting into the red zone and like, having to kick a lot is kind of what bugs me in a postseason setting. So that's, yeah, that's my internal threat to kind of tie it back to your play calling notes.
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B
Anybody else on heartline in the play calling?
- [21:49]
C
Are you good to go?
- [21:49]
A
This is, there's such a fascinating element to this Ohio State team because, like, we're not going to really know everything about this Ohio State team. And so we just know, like, until that moment comes and either, you know, good or bad, we just find out because Ohio State is kind of slogging along and they're getting through with what, you know, what they need to do. And so I think it could end up being a very big problem. But I guess this is hard to, just hard to know that until, you know, the moment comes where we're going to find out. You know, you're absolutely right, Chris. Like, there's been some, you know, moments where our red zone issues have been, been a big issue for Ohio State. It's no secret that last year it wasn't because they had an overpowering run game and they also had to run threat at quarterback, which, you know, makes such a big difference down there. As, you know, the field gets shorter. They don't have that this year. So, you know, it could end up being a massive problem. I don't know if it is or it isn't because again, Ohio State is just getting through with what they need to do right now, and a moment's going to come where they're not going to be able to just get, you know, just get by with what they have and then we'll find out if it maybe was an issue this entire time and just now getting exposed.
- [22:43]
B
So you got any lingering concerns, Landis or no?
- [22:46]
D
Yes, some. But they are alleviated a little bit by what Ryan Day talked about last year, which was like, once they got to the postseason and sort of like past recruiting, I think he, he felt like he was able to be a little more involved with the offense. So I don't, I don't think that means he's gonna, like, take the sticks from Brian Hartline in the postseason. But I, I, I do sort of envision a world where he's more heavily involved in offensive play calling in the postseason and, and certainly more involved in the game planning of it. So, you know, that could be a bad thing. I'm not saying that's definitely a good thing, but if, if there is a lack of feel or like, you guys make really good points about the sequencing in place, because I felt that too. I do think you could see Ryan kind of like, step in and try to smooth that out on the fly from time to time.
- [23:28]
C
Can I ask a question real quick? Yeah, I guess, like, I know that play calling duties for head coach, like, during the year may be not a great thing. It takes you away from certain things. Would you guys be opposed to Ryan, they're taking the sticks in the post for a postseason?
- [23:40]
B
No.
- [23:41]
D
No.
- [23:41]
C
Okay. Because, like, where I'm at, like, like, over the course of a season, like, I get it, like, you don't want your. Your head coach calling plays. I was like, like Riley's kind of introduction to all this was like, I wouldn't mind taking the sticks for a postseason run at all.
- [23:53]
D
Right.
- [23:59]
A
Well.
- [23:59]
B
And frankly, like, to me, a lot of the stuff that's like, hey, I was very big on, like, Ryan Day's got to give up play calling. And part of that, to me was like, ryan Day's got to beat Michigan. So it's like, you've got it. Like, you can't if you're. If you're just drawing up plays on napkins all the time, it's like, are you holistically running the program in a way to handle everything, but, like, it's like, oh, we just beat Michigan. It's like, I can call plays for a month, then I'll get back to being there. Like, like, that's not right. Like, JT 2014, like, JT Barrett was the regular season quarterback, Cardell Jones was the postseason quarterback. Brian Hartline's the regular season play caller. Ryan Day is the postseason play caller. You can't exactly call it that, but if that's the effect.
- [24:35]
D
Yeah.
- [24:35]
A
Over the marathon of the season, it makes a ton of sense, obviously, for Ryan to give those play calling duties away. And look, there's also the element as well with. With Brian Hartline and like, they needed to give him something else, you know, they needed to elevate his position within the program as well and see what that looked like for the future of the program and Brian Hartline's future in that program. So that element as well. But like, in a. In a marathon, it makes a ton of sense to, you know, to give those away. But in a sprint of the playoff, you know, who's your best play caller and who gives you the best chance to find, you know, really good rhythm and go win a national championship? There's no question that's still Ryan Day. He's still a very, very talented play caller and an accomplished play caller. And so, you know, I would not be opposed to that at all. It's not going to happen, at least not on any full scale. But.
- [25:18]
D
They'Re not going to tell us if it happens.
- [25:20]
A
That's true. Yeah.
- [25:23]
B
Ryan Day's not gonna be holding a sheet that says, I am the play.
- [25:25]
A
Caller now, but, like, Waffle House shooting his hand on the. On the sidelines. Yeah.
- [25:30]
B
Chris. So was the red zone stuff, like, your biggest internal thing, or was there something else?
- [25:34]
C
Yeah, my biggest internal thing I got. That's. That's the only thing that I'm kind of concerned about. Other than that, I. I feel really good with kind of the direction where this team's headed. The red zone is, like, the. The. The number one thing for me. And also because, like, the red zone thing sometimes, like, feels like a theme of, like, the Ryan Day programs.
- [25:51]
A
Sure.
- [25:51]
C
Like Ryan day. I mean, 20. I mean, 2018, we had the red zone issues. 2019, obviously, with Justin, no red zone issues, but, like, it felt. It feels like the red zone thing is all. I mean, shoot, actually, even 19, the red zone thing was an issue against games.
- [26:03]
B
Yeah.
- [26:04]
C
Yeah. So it does feel like that's kind of the thing that is, like, lingering and, like, I'm watching, like, Ryan Day kind of exercise these demons one by one by one. And that's, like, the last one internally remaining that I just would like to see gone.
- [26:15]
B
Okay. What's your thing, Dylan? Internally?
- [26:17]
A
Yeah, I mean, I kind of touched on it earlier. You know, the offensive line play is, like, the one area I look at Ohio State and say, like, could that get you beat? Certainly against better football teams. Can I get you beaten? Yeah. I questioned the ceiling of that offensive line as well. So, you know, it's. Again, it's one of those things where we might not know how big of a flaw it was until it gets exposed. And Ohio State's losing a football game. Yeah, it's certainly that, you know, no matter what they do. Bill, you kind of touched on the rotation thing, and I've had an issue with people labeling Ryan, labeling this as a rotation, because it's really not been a rotation. It's been a rotation in title alone. Because, like, if you look at the snap counts that they're giving out, like, you know, Padilla plays one series in the. In the first half and maybe another one in the second half, and, like, there's still a big gap, a big discrepancy in. In snap counts, and I Just didn't feel like they're ever giving Josh Padilla a chance to truly, you know, see what he looks like out there now. Gay band Sickle played consecutive drives against UCLA on Saturday. It's the first time in that quote, unquote rotation where the second guy has actually gotten consecutive drives. And I asked Ryan about that on Tuesday. You know, how close Josh Padilla was to getting a start or getting consecutive drives. So you get an extended look at him and see what that looks like. If you're really trying to figure out what, you know, who gives you the best chance at right guard. So maybe that's a step in that right direction. The fact that there are still guys getting consecutive drives as that second guy at right guard right now tells you everything you need to know about their confidence in that position. So, you know, it's hard not to look at that and say, like, you know, that's a. That's a massive concern as you're talking about going into, you know, game 11, that they're not even sure what they have at right guard or who gives them the best chance to do that. And that's saying nothing of the other issues, as you said, Bill, that have popped up at right tackle. There's been issues. I, you know, there were times on Saturday where I didn't think Carson Hansman played very well at all, you know, so. So there have been other issues as well. Who's going to expose that? So that's the question. Who out there in college football is really going to be able to expose Ohio State up front? I don't think there are a lot of teams that you could look at just on paper and say, that's a massive problem for Ohio State up front. But there are teams that exist, you know, that could.
- [28:11]
B
So, yeah, okay. All right. Let's talk about, like, the national conversation a little bit around Ohio State. Question, for what word or words you can use, multiple words, would you use to describe the national conversation about Ohio State? I'll start, I think, maybe lazy. Like, I just like that they just are kind of searching for the surface stuff because if you scoreboard, watch or if you look like, oh, you know, there were some games early in the year, why is only 3 nothing in the first quarter, that kind of thing. I just don't think it's particularly sophisticated. And I think that this is in particular, maybe is the type of Ohio State team that the difference between the people who watch every play every week and the people who sort of catch, highlights or watch scores during the week. Compared to other teams. I think just in the end, you can have a very different view of this team. And if you're. If it's a surface level view, I think the analysis of Ohio State can then be a little bit lazy. Chris, what have you thought of the national conversation around the Buckeyes?
- [29:05]
C
I think it's pretty dishonest because you get the. The whole lot of, like, not challenged, not tested. How good are they really? And yet there's not a single fan base out there that's like, we want to play Ohio State. So, like, it's just the whole. The whole thing just dishonest. Like. Like every. Everybody can acknowledge that Ohio State, by far away, is the best team in college football. I think it's pretty easy to see. And when you start, like, poking holes, it just becomes inconsistent, and then it becomes dishonest because, like, you know, this whole week you're going to see people talk about, oh, you know, the Georgia win over Texas is a great win, but the Ohio State, whenever that same Texas team is not a great win, it's gonna be like transitive property stuff. And then, I don't know, it just. The whole thing's just dishonest. And. And I think I would steer away from lazy Doug just because I think they're. They're contorting their bodies and mind.
- [29:46]
B
They're working hard.
- [29:47]
C
Yeah, they're working really hard to be dishonest. And so that's why I go away from lazy. But, hey, that looks a pretty. It's.
- [29:55]
B
It's hard work to be this uninformed about the number one team in the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dylan, what you got?
- [30:02]
A
You know, I had similar thoughts initially. I went to irrelevant because it just doesn't matter. Ohio State's going to do what Ohio State does, and, you know, if they take care of their business and continue to prove it to the best team in the country that I think that they are, then none of this matters. But for the sake of the. For the sake of the segment, I went with inequitable, which is, you know, along similar lines, because it's just. It's just not. It's not consistent across, you know, the entire national landscape and how they handle these things. You know, Chris, you. You mentioned the. The Texas. The whole discourse about the Texas win in Ohio State, it was kind of just completely like, forgotten about, like, just. Just shrugged off. It's like if it didn't happen, you know, because of the way Texas played after that, and then certainly they've rebounded. They got Thumped, you know, in Athens, but they've rebounded, and it's still a top 20 win for Ohio State. You think about the first College Football Playoff ranking show the way Joey Galloway and Booger McFarland talked about that Texas win for Ohio State, or didn't talk about it, for that matter, and then focused on the way A M, you know, went to Notre Dame and beat, you know, beat the Irish in South Bend. You know, that's a great win for A M. But like, you know, Notre Dame was owing to at the time. At that time, that was not a good win anymore. Like, we were wondering if Notre Dame was going to miss the playoff. Like, the unthinkable that they would miss the playoff entirely. Since then, it's a. It's a great win. It's one of the best wins in the country. We know that. But to talk about that the way that they have and then just completely shrug off the Texas win for Ohio State, again, it's just not fair. It's not consistent across, you know, all those things. And look, also A M, you know, A M, g. But, like, 42 points to Arkansas, they won by three. You know, in Arkansas, they beat Auburn 16 to 10 and scored 16 points doing that. Like, those are two terrible football teams. Like, there have been warning signs for A M. And, oh, by the way, they just. They trailed by 27 on Saturday, you know, in College Station. So there have been warning signs all over the place for A M against these teams that, you know, people would call nobodies. They say Ohio State has played nobody. Well, there have been teams that have struggled with these nobodies. Ohio State has not struggled with any of these nobodies. So there's obviously a ton to be said for Ohio State handling their business against these, quote, unquote, nobodies that we've seen other teams week after week, struggle with. So it just seems completely inequitable across, you know, the entire thing.
- [32:06]
B
Yeah, no, I think that is true, especially because the. The more you compare it to discussions around other team. That's one. I think. I think it's especially aggravating for Ohio State fans. Landis, what's your word of words?
- [32:15]
D
Yeah, I think you compare it, too, to discussions of, like, past reigning national champions, too, or like, Georgia was inevitable.
- [32:22]
C
But.
- [32:22]
D
But Ohio State, somehow, you have to find ways to. To find chinks in the armor. I'm. I'm in agreement with everybody. Everybody. I had, like, intellectually dishonest written down as the way I would describe it, because I do think, and Dylan sort of touched on this. They're like, there. There are, like, sets of facts about these teams that we have collected over now where we're going into the. The 12th week or whatever it is, technically 13th week of the college football season. But for some reason, the. The facts as they apply to Ohio State are sort of, like, dismissed or. Or, like, construed in a way to, like, bring Ohio State down. But then, like, the same logic is used to prop other teams up. I don't. I don't really. I mean, I do understand why that's the case. You have to, like, I guess, consider the source of where it's coming from and who cashes the checks and things like that. But it does. It does create, like, a pretty uninformed, I think, and misleading, just sort of dialogue about the sport generally in Ohio State. I do feel like it's at the forefront of that right now. So there's. There's. There's a lot, I think, of a very intelligent talk about the Buckeyes within the sphere of people who talk about the Buckeyes regularly. But once you get outside of that, there's a lot of dumb stuff out there, man.
- [33:28]
B
Yeah, no, I think that's right. And this will. This will lead us into our. Our final question here, which is about our discussions about the Ohio State Buckeyes. Chris, we'll start with you. What's your favorite thing about talking about Ohio State football? Like, from the big picture perspective, from the minutia kind of perspective? What is that is the most interesting thing about it?
- [33:48]
C
The most for me. Well, see, I. I came up on the high school football side of things, and so I always, like, love high school. High school coaches that I know, and they've got players, like, do well at Ohio State. Like, that is. That is my favorite, like, section of the storyline, obviously, like, I'm a huge Tedgens senior guy. You know, being Akron, Cleveland area, like, seeing kind of all the athletes come through Glenville. So I love the storylines of, like, of guys. And I also love when you see patients, like, rewarded at Ohio State and you see that more at Ohio State than other places. So I'm a big storyline guy, Doug. I'll keep it honest. Like, I. I love R.L. reese. Like, I don't have the ability to speak rationally about him because of, you know, kind of his rise and kind of the things I saw, you know, from him as a high schooler. And so that. That's my. My favorite subpart because, like, at the end of the day, like, Covering sports. I mean, this sport in particular is, like, so much about kind of the development of growth of young men. And I've, like, drank that Kool Aid entirely. And that's my favorite thing, because, you know, back in the day when I first started, like, doing the whole sports thing, it was. I was just doing stats for the Akron Beacon Journal for. Oh, and I was, like, up in the booth and, like, you know, saw Joe Burrow against St. V. And, like, so, like, for him in particular, like, that kind of story is really important to me. I mean, Paris Campbell, you know, graduated at 17 from Akron, like, right. I mean, from, you know, in akron, from, like, 10 minutes up the road where I was. We graduated the same year. So, like, to see his story kind of, you know, end in the NFL, like, I. I guess, like, I am really into, like, the individual stories of recruiting. In terms of, like, what I really love, when I get to talk about.
- [35:17]
B
Ohio State, I will say it. And, like, you know, we know Ohio State can't only recruit Ohio kids. You'd limit yourself, like, once you get to Ohio State, everybody's a Buckeye. We understand that. But there is. I think people acknowledge there is something, like, when you're in this state and you see these kids when they're younger, and, like, I know. I just talked to Arvell about it just a little bit, like, what. What it means for Ohio State football that Arvell Reese and the history of. Of. Of Glenville guys and. And everybody knows that history, and that here is another guy just making a gigantic difference from. For Ohio State football. Arvell Reese could be from the moon, and people would love it. But what you're saying, Chris, it just. It's just something a little bit more that nobody could deny when it's that kind of story.
- [35:58]
C
And I'm not really, like, a huge recruiting guy. I'm more like an Ohio high school football guy. And, like, whenever I see Arvell play, I remember, I think he was heading into his junior year, and I went to go sit down with Tedgen Sr. And I got cussed out for about 20 minutes. And near the end of it, he. He said, like, like, look, like, if Ohio State gets serious about him and Atlanta, like, you'll see he's the best linebacker in the country. Best linebacker and some other words in there as well.
- [36:21]
D
Yeah.
- [36:22]
C
And so, like, then it's like, okay, like, I'm gonna take this. I, you know, got yelled out for a little bit, but it's cool. And, like, I am hopeful, like, and so then it happens. And that, that was the meeting that I was told, like, look like, you know, freak show. Under recruited, like, played his high school senior season as a 16 year old, so got to Ohio State a year early. But people don't know that because he didn't reclass. And so like, that kind of story, I think is something that I'm really, really into when it comes to like watching like the Ohio guys come up is kind of my, my personal, like, brings me happiness when I cover the team.
- [37:00]
B
I gotta say, it makes me feel a little better that we had a second story about someone yelling at Chris.
- [37:05]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [37:06]
B
And it wasn't me.
- [37:07]
A
Yeah, maybe it's you, buddy. Maybe it's you, buddy. Look in the mirror.
- [37:10]
C
It definitely is me. I mean, I, I found myself on these little side quests. You didn't, you didn't really yell at me. It was just like appointed, like, you know, you're late. But I didn't even. It wasn't my fault. I was in the newsroom, so I don't know.
- [37:25]
B
Me again, senior. Yeah, I'll take that. Association a great company. Dylan, what, what's your favorite thing about this?
- [37:32]
A
My favorite thing about, you know, talking Ohio State football is there was always something to talk about. Like, you know, when you think about Ohio State football and it's, it's always nationally relevant, it's always in pursuit of the highest and loftiest goals that we have in, you know, in this sport. There's always something to talk about. Ohio State fans make sure there's always something to talk about. There's never a dull moment covering Ohio State football. Football, you know, or a dull moment on the speeds. And I think, you know, sometimes when I talk to get to talking to other people who are on other beats of programs who maybe don't have that level of sustained success. I just wonder what it would be like. You know, I'm fortunate that like my, my first job in, you know, in college sports was covering Ohio State football, which, oh, by the way, the program that I grew up, you know, loving and watching and, you know, things as well. And I just wonder what it's like to not maybe be covering Ohio State football. So, yeah, I just love the fact that there's always something to talk about. There's always something to, you know, probably to analyz, overanalyze as we do because we know that we're holding Ohio State to the standard of, you know, being the best in the country. And I love that and I try not to take that for granted because I think about covering some other programs and I know that's not the case.
- [38:37]
D
Yeah.
- [38:37]
B
I think sometimes, like, other programs, like, oh, it's June. What should we talk about with his other football programs? Like, there's nothing, man. It's like, yeah, it's Ohio State. There's something. There's always something. Lance, what would you say?
- [38:48]
D
There are a lot of things. Can I just like, be super simple and say, like, it, like, like they have cool players and like, it's fun to talk about. Fun to talk about. Like, like the, the obvious ones, right? Like Jeremiah Carnell, Arvel, Caleb, Sonny, Julian. Like these, these guys are, are freaks. Like, the best at what they do. But then even like James Peoples is What, like the 34th best player on this team, right? And he just had like the cleanest hurdle I've ever seen. And like in game hurdle of anybody in the game against ucla and it's just like any, any time you're watching a game, something that can happen and then it's super fun to talk about and write after the effect. So there are, there are other talented teams in the country. I'm not saying that Ohio State's the only one that has talented players, but they're the one that I cover. And I'm. I'm pretty thankful and psyched up to know that they're always going to have dudes out there on the field that we can get to watch and then get to talk about and write about. And that's pretty cool. Yeah.
- [39:35]
A
I just wanted to step in real quick because that's a great point, Bill, because I wrote a story on Isaiah west last week, and there's no way in hell I thought I'd be writing an Isaiah west story, you know, going into the, you know, the 10th game of the football season. Season. But that's really cool because, you know, he certainly earned that right, so.
- [39:47]
D
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:48]
B
And it is always like one of those. When you see guys and what, like what they go on to do in the NFL and you think like, oh, I remember that guy was on scout team his freshman year or whatever, and now he's an all pro. And it's just like, yeah, like that. And that happens again and again and again and again. I will just say, I think like, Ohio State is such a great lens through which to view everything that happens in college sports and college football. And like, we don't, you know, it's like the lawsuits and, and changing rules and all that kind of stuff. We like to talk about ball, but like, you can talk about all those other things because it affects Ohio State and Ohio State affects it like what Ohio State thinks matters to the rest of college football. And sometimes it was like, oh, do you think they should change the transfer portal rule? And it's like, well, I don't know. I cover the 101st best team that isn't going to get anybody good in the portal anyway. What, what does my fan base care about whether the portal rule changes? Whereas like Ryan Day saying like oh, they, you know, to only have a single portal window and it's going to affect teams and you're not be able to replenish things in January because there's no spring portal anymore. Like that's really, that really matters. So that, that, that you can always talk about national stuff with an Ohio State idea behind it makes, and it makes everything relevant as a result. Chris, if the folks want to find you just want to like everybody knows who you are but like if they want more Chris in their life, where can they listen to you? Where can they find you on YouTube?
- [41:14]
C
Ron and I, you know, launched a channel a little bit ago, kind of more of the underbelly of college football stuff and then also just general culture football, talking Buckeye talk on a dead air, sports on YouTube. So that's kind of where I spend a lot of my time then obviously like every day at noon on minutes of Sports. I'm pretty easy to find, to be honest. I think Underbelly.
- [41:30]
B
Underbelly. What's. What do you, what are you digging out there in the underbelly?
- [41:34]
C
Oh, just like, you know, I did a whole, a whole thing on, you know, covering the whole Brian Kelly firing and like the bylaw stuff about how LSU could get out of the buyout and like kind of take the temperature of like, you know, how certain of the big, big radio shows in Louisiana feel about it versus other shows. I kind of just like sit and analyze and try to learn as much as possible. Do my, do my deep dives on maybe like non football playing stories.
- [42:00]
A
Yeah.
- [42:00]
C
Because at the end of the day like I enjoy kind of the story and the theater that I think, think a lot of it gets missed by casual cultural fans. And that's kind of my passion project. So I spent a lot of time just like doing deep dives on whatever I can and kind of finding some of the Internet gems as well in terms of like certain teams. So that's, that's kind of where I spend a lot of my time doing that.
- [42:20]
B
Very cool, Dylan. Where can the folks find you on.
- [42:24]
A
Delgazette.Com so that's-e dashette.com certainly on social media as well. I try to post a ton of videos on, on Twitter, on social media, just because I know a lot of people that's how they were going to want to consume their news. If they can sit there and watch a two minute clip of somebody talking rather than reading a, you know, a thousand word story. You know, I know people enjoy that. So I post a ton of video on Twitter. It's at Dylan Davis, the I L l o n Davis 56. For people who enjoy, you know, maybe consuming news that way. Yeah.
- [42:54]
B
Very cool. Landis, we got anything coming over at the substack? Bill and Doug.
- [42:57]
D
Osu.substack.com We're working on some offensive line recruiting stuff. We're trying to nail it down exactly what the plan is going to be. But yeah, diving in on what we think maybe some, some new strategical moves for Ohio State recruiting on the offensive line.
- [43:12]
B
Yeah, it makes Bill happy. That's his underbelly.
- [43:14]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [43:15]
B
When you find Bill Landis's underbelly, it's all offensive line. Just, it's all offensive line. So thanks to you guys for being here. If you want to check out roback.com r h O-B-A-K.com use the code BAD20B A D20. You'll get 20 off your first order for like the cool game day collection of hoodies and, and polos and stuff. The nice little Ohio State logo on there. Bad 20. Chris, Dylan, you guys are pros, man. That was an excellent show. And just again, blanket, I'm a, I'm kind of almost out of the yelling at people business. But I apologize for the past and the future. Just in case.
- [43:56]
C
I wanted to be something that I look back and smile about, it's a good thing. I needed it. I needed it. I was like 21 in radio, you know.
- [44:03]
A
Now I feel slighted that I haven't been yelled at. So I'm gonna have to do something to piss you off, Doug.
- [44:07]
B
So I got, I got something just for you, Dylan.
- [44:09]
D
You just tell them you think Alabama's good.
- [44:11]
A
Okay? That's it.
- [44:14]
B
You guys were awesome. Everybody out there, thanks for being here, watching, listening. Go consume what these guys are putting out into the world about Ohio State football. They do a great job. So for Chris, for Dylan, for Bill, I'm Doug. And that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug show.
- [44:29]
A
Thanks, gentlemen. Appreciate you.