← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Jeremiah Smith motivated, describing Ohio State talent, 2026 Heisman favorites: Around the Shoe
00:59:38
It's five more Ohio State football topics on Around the Shoe, as Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by two more outstanding members of the Ohio State beat.
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- [00:02]
A
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly. Macaroni and cheese. Modelo and college football. College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff. Modelo. The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices. Where I 50 everything you got all day today.
- [01:04]
B
The attention to detail is like none other.
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C
Keep physical, keep playing.
- [01:09]
D
We are the winner. Tillane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [01:14]
A
It's time to bring it first round.
- [01:15]
D
Coverage on the College Football Playoff presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [01:21]
A
Max, are you ready?
- [01:22]
D
Let's go.
- [01:32]
C
Hey, hey, where you been? Buckeye Talk is about to begin. Hey, hey, hey. Come on in. We got four Buckeye talkers here on the Bill and Doug show on around the Shoe. Douglas, Maurice and Bill Landis as always joined by two outstanding members of the Ohio State beat today. Two returning guests on around the Shoe and we've got two cleveland.com guys together. Two Buckeye Talk guys together. We have Stephen Means and Stefan Kreischnik. Gentlemen, thank you both for joining us. Stephen, great to see you.
- [02:09]
A
Good to see you.
- [02:10]
E
So there are going to be some.
- [02:11]
A
People who are going to enjoy that.
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B
I was not one of them.
- [02:16]
C
Yeah, yeah. I actually want to sing our theme song and Bill won't let me. Stefan, thank you for being here, man.
- [02:24]
E
Yeah, thanks for having me on. I think we found our new recording if we ever lose rights to the current Buckeye Talk song.
- [02:29]
C
So yeah, because we are. I mean this is, this is legacy here. We got four Buckeye talkers, but now we have great around the shoe episode here. We're gonna talk about a lot about Ohio State. Obviously the playoff is on the horizon. We'll find out this weekend who Ohio State is going to play from the Texas A and Miami winner. But we got plenty of time to talk about that. So let's talk about Buckeyes being mad about stuff. And number one, Stephen Means, we will start with you. Jeremiah Smith did not win the Baletnikov award as the best receiver in college football. What word would you. Would you use to describe that? The fact that J.J. did not win.
- [03:13]
A
Yeah. So when you sent us these prompts, I'm actually glad you sent us these prompts, like, two hours before we had to do this. So I couldn't sit there and. And steam and be upset about how stupid all of this is. You know, he lost the award to a guy he beat for an award at his own conference. I went with unrealistic, because here's what's happening with Jeremiah Smith. I'm gonna use a basketball reference. You know, Kobe Bryant only has one MVP his career. You know how crazy it sounds that Kobe Bryant only has one MVP in his career? And the way people talk about Michael Jordan, even LeBron James, where you're like, they could have won MVP every single year. We can give Jeremiah Smith this award at the preseason every single year, get to the end of the year and go, yeah, that made sense. He should have won this award. My word is unrealistic. Maman. 79 catches, 1156 yards, and 11 touchdowns this year. Bnikov level season. Great year from Makai Lemon. This is not trying to take away from Makai Lemon. Jeremiah Smith. 80 catches, 10, 86 yards, 11 touchdowns this year. So one had 96.3 yards per game this year. One had 90.5 yards per game this year while also playing with a thigh Bruce for the back half of the season, which is. I'm in the bubble, so of course I know that more than I know what Makai Lemon is dealing with. But these stat numbers are looking each other in the eye. But for one guy, these stats are going to be viewed as special year. What a season. Awesome weapon for usc. The other guy, this is his floor. Right?
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C
This is the way.
- [04:47]
A
It's almost like Jeremiah Smith is fighting against the idea of what Jeremiah Smith is going to be for the rest of his career. And so because of that, I said this last year when he didn't win freshman of the year. I don't like the precedent that's being set. That's Jeremiah Smith isn't winning awards that he's obviously supposed to win. And here we are again. Another year has gone by where the best player in college football isn't getting the awards for at least his own positional group. So unrealistic. Because JJ has to do something that's unheard of, it feels like, to win awards while everybody else can just do what JJ's floor is.
- [05:24]
C
It's very interesting that he is. Has set a standard for himself based on his talent. That is almost impossible to reach. And then he's being penalized for not reaching the own impossible standard that he set for himself. Stephen, it is quite a. It's a. It's a brain. Like, you're. It breaks your head a little bit, but I think you're. I think you're on it, but it's weird.
- [05:50]
A
We. It's. I don't know why we do this in the media. We overthink things. Just turn your television on. And now you can turn it on ESPN because it's playoffs. So House, they can be on there. Just turn your television on and go, that guy's a little better than everybody else is on the football field. We should probably give him a trophy at the end of the year. Or you can do what we do every year. Not do that at all.
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C
Yeah, no, it's. It's. It's hard to argue. Stefan, what was your word for this?
- [06:16]
E
I. I kind of went down a similar route. The word I chose was relative, just because I think expectations to Jeremiah are so relative or, sorry, voting for Jeremiah is so relative to what his expectations are. Right? Like. Like Stephen referred to there. It's just if Jeremiah doesn't have 3, 000 yards receiving, it's like, see, he wasn't as good of a recruit as everyone said he was. And it's like, well, okay, maybe if you, you know, think about how this offense is run and what, you know, the way Ohio State plays and, you know, everything that goes into it, maybe the. The numbers are just as good as Makai Lemon. But if you watch the games, you can see why. Why that might be. You know, I thought was interesting. I got flamed a little bit on Twitter for posting that the screenshot from the Texas game where Trayon Henderson is conveniently, you know, cropped out, and. And there's three guys defending Jeremiah Smith.
- [07:01]
A
But I.
- [07:01]
E
But if you watch that Texas game and if you watch a lot of the games Ohio State plays in, you can see that that screenshot of three guys around Jeremiah Smith is not just like a meme, right? Like that they always had, you know, a linebacker, a safety in a corner kind of shadowing his way. And that's just a level of attention that no receiver gets right around the country, and that's even with Cardinal Tate on the other side. So if you're watching these games, Jeremiah putting up just as good of numbers as Mai Lemon is still a testament to how good Jeremiah Smith is because of all the attention that he draws from defenses. So relative is the word I went with just because what we expect from him is so different compared to, to what other guys are doing. And for him to still have that level of production, I think kind of gets lost in the mud a bit.
- [07:44]
C
Yeah. Landis, what was your word?
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B
I was gonna maybe pull one from the video clip that he posted from Paid in Full, but I don't want to get canceled and I don't want the show to get demonetized, so I won't do that.
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C
Wait, wait, wait. Can you, can you help old people? He posted a clip. Help, Help old people. Because, like. Okay, okay.
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A
Yes, Ma. And he's a little upset about the way his business is going at the moment. I'll just say that.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he wants to take care of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I guess like with, I don't know, like motivation maybe. Like, like when, when, when Jeremiah Smith puts on full display the fact that he is the best college football player in the country over the next month, you will, you will understand why now? Because this, because this happened to him and he feels, he feels disrespected and I think rightfully so. Right. I, I agree with everything that Stephen and Stefan said. Right. Like, and it's the product of a flawed system too. I, I do think if people were able to vote for the Blitnikov after the Big Ten title game, which they weren't, Jeremiah Smith very well could have won because he would have been a thousand yard receiver and they would have seen that his numbers were basically the same as Makai Lemons in the same number of games because Jeremiah Smith missed a game. So I think, excuse me. I think it's mostly just that, that, you know, voters for that award and most awards don't look much further past the, just whatever the counting stats are. And Jeremiah was, was in a rough spot there, I think, because the game where he had a pretty nice game against Indiana just wasn't counted. But, but I, I do think, like, you know, sometimes players will post stuff claiming things are motivational and just like, okay, like, you'll be fine. Calm down a little bit. I, I believe it with Jeremiah. I just, I just think he's got, he's got that level to him that if he feels slated and he wants to take this thing to another level, he's very much going to do that.
- [09:51]
C
Was anybody surprised by that? Because sometimes I can't tell of, I don't know if these guys care that much. I, you know, there are a million things, but Stephen, like Jeremiah, let it be Known to the world that he's mad that he didn't win the Baletnikov. Were you surprised at all?
- [10:15]
A
No, because I've had conversations with him about other things that he has felt slighted by in the past. I. I love that we're getting older, Jeremiah, and so he can stop with this. I don't know if I'm that good. I'm 18. I just want to prove myself. No, I'm better than all of you. It's. If you remember last year, the Oregon game, how that ended with him getting the offensive pass interference call.
- [10:36]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [10:37]
A
He was having a conversation with his trainer a couple of months later where he was adamant about how frustrated he was that that was called a pass interference. Even his trainer is like, no, that was offensive pass. He's like, no, no, no, it wasn't. And then we saw what he did to Oregon. He spent all off season upset about the way Texas played him in the first time against. Against the Cotton Bowl. So then he gets on the field with him again and we see how irritated he is with Julian saying where they worked on something for nine months to get him an explosive touchdown and Julian saying said, no, dump down the max Claire, who then drops the football. So it's. He's a South Florida kid. They all act like this. But I think now he's got some cachet. And so we're all getting to see it because instead of worrying about whether he's going to flip to Georgia or Miami on signing day, we're going, how does Jeremiah Smith react anytime somebody ticks him off and I love it, I'm here for it all.
- [11:34]
C
Like, as you think about this, Stefan, like what Stephen's describing, do you think losing the Bnikov will make Jeremiah Smith an even better player in this playoff run?
- [11:46]
E
I think if the coaches and players of Texas A and M and Miami had a vote, they would have firmly voted Jeremiah Smith to win. The blitnkov, knowing what is happens since then. So, yeah, I. I think so I think we can get an even better version of Jeremiah, which is kind of scary. I think maybe more importantly, we'll get a healthier version of Jeremiah. Hopefully when the playoffs started, right when he's had about a month of not playing football. So, yeah, I think. I think we could, which is a scary thought. And, and yeah, I was a little surprised by that video. But like, like Stephen said, he's a guy that finds motivation from a lot of different places. And it seems like at least in Ohio State's building, like at least in the Woody outside of the Heisman, the Bulletnikov is kind of an award that still is held in like really high regard. I think kind of the, the competition within the building is, is important because it's just like you want to be better than the guy before you and the guy before you won a bullet in the coffin and the guy before him. Like there's just so much tradition I guess now with what Brian Harlein especially has done with the receivers room that that's an award that, that seems to still hold a lot of weight and, and I'm not surprised to see Jeremiah ticked off about that.
- [12:51]
A
The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices are focused. This is where I think everything you got all damn day.
- [13:00]
B
The attention to detail is like none other.
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D
We are the winner. Chile takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [13:10]
A
It's time to bring it first round.
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D
Coverage of the College Football Playoff presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [13:17]
A
Max, are you ready?
- [13:18]
D
Let's go. Lowe's December deal drops are here just in time to give your home some love before holiday hosting this week. Get up to 35% off select major appliances and members save an additional $60 on the MayTag top load laundry pair. Now just $9.96 plus save up to $20 on select Moen kitchen and bathroom faucets shop. December deal drops all month long Lowe's we help you save valid through 1217 while supplies last selection varies by location. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. See lowe's.com terms for details.
- [13:54]
C
Okay, so I'm kind of afraid of my answer because I don't want Jeremiah Smith to hear about it and yell at me in the Woody if I'm like, I sort of get get it why he didn't win. Maybe I, I said actually I thought that when Jalen Hyatt from Tennessee wanted over Marvin Harrison Jr. In 2022, I thought that was worse. And then Marv won it in 2023 because like that Tennessee offense was just a sort of like a duck and Chuck kind of like, I don't know, let's throw it 50 yards down the field and see what happens. It's like, do you really think Jalen Hyatt is better than Marvin Harrison Jr. At least like I do. And then Jalen Hyde, I don't know what he was. It was like a 4th round pick or something. But Kyle Lemon is like a first round receiver, right? And I do think it was very, very, very confusing to People that the Bletnikov was announced after the conference championship games, but it didn't count the conference championship game and that he finished sixth in the Heisman, which did count. What he did against Indiana voters could wait. But Blutnikov, you, you actually. I actually was confused by the Blutnikov vote because the ballot was due at 8pm yeah. On conference championship weekend. It was like do right up until. Because the other two guys who were finalists weren't playing. And it was like, we are giving you every second, but as long as you don't count what Jeremiah Smith might do here. And it's like, I don't. I thought that was a very like on. There's a part of me that actually thinks like, okay, well either if you're going to just, just do the regular season, then just do the 12 game regular season then. No, because the, this, the conference championships are the beginning of the postseason. So then either count all the postseason or none of the postseason. But because a lot of. You know what I mean? I just think it's confusing because if you don't count that game for Jeremiah smith, he played 11 games, had 72 catches for 942 yards. And Makai Lemon played 12 games and had 79 catches for 1156 yards. So we know the injury mattered. But Makai Lemon has 200 more receiving yards. They both had 11 touchdowns. They both played in like kind of famous passing offenses for famous passing coaches. They both had good quarterbacks. They both had a second good receiver on their team. I actually think like they're kind of in the same realm a little bit. So my word is like circumstantial. Just. Which is the wrong use of the word circumstantial. But it's just like circumstances. He got hurt. He, he, he had some like not great games at the end. Now the other thing is Makai Lemon had some not great games at the end. Makai Lemon had like nine receiving yards in his last game against ucla. So it's like, it's not like he fin strong. Makai Lemon had five 100 yard games this year. Jeremiah Smith had three 100 yard games. And I do think the thing that is difficult, I think the people that watch the Big Ten every week, as you guys noted, he won the receiver award in the Big Ten. For the people who watch all of the Big Ten nationally, when you pull back and you have 600 voters around the country, they're going to lean on stats a little bit more. And so then he sort of lost the stat argument and then as we see all American teams come out, I do think the good thing about all American teams, and I haven't done it a ton, but I've done it once or twice. It's usually like a conference call and a discussion. Right. It's not just people voting as much. And so then if you had a conversation about the Baletnikov and you had a 30 person panel that said, okay, these are our three finalists. Let's talk it out and then vote for the winner, I think he would have won because I think you would have talked about, well, who's really better? Well, he did miss a game. Well, he did play hurt. Well, he did fight through these things. Well, he did have Carnell Tate on his team, but that shouldn't be a negative for him. You know what I mean? But it's not that. It's 600 people going, like, I don't though. I got to get my vote in. This guy is 200 more yards receiving. Right. So it's a lot.
- [17:40]
B
Without even noticing that he had missed the game.
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C
Right. Because you just. As a blender cough letter. You guys know this. Like, you just get a stat line and it's like they give you the stats. But. And I do think it's. It's just hard to dig in on all this stuff. So, Bill, I think it's a little bit of. Just like the process. The process got him a little bit. But I think when you take the process into account, you can see how it happened. I'm not saying that Makai Lemon is better than Jeremiah Smith, but stats do matter. And I think it's just an unfortunate kind of reality of how this stuff is voted on. But I'm not sure I know a better way.
- [18:23]
B
I don't disagree with you, but. But I would also say that it's not like Makai Lemon's stats were significantly better than Jeremiah's at the time that people had the vote. So, like, if it's close, and I think it was, then I do think you just need to ask yourself, like, okay, who's actually the better receiver? And the answer is Jeremiah Smith. It's like, I. Does that mean he wins it? I. I don't know. That's what the calculus was for me. Like, I voted for Jeremiah because I think he's the best receiver in college football, and that there was nobody with such a substantial statistical argument that gave me something else to consider. So I just, like, I. I think it's under 600 something people, I think, to vote on the Blitnikov, I Just don't think enough people were really thinking about it. They just looked at the numbers and said, like, well, this guy's better. I'll pick this guy. Even though I guess technically Skyler Bell was better than both of them. Right. But I don't think a non power 4 receiver is going to win it when you have two guys like that. Yeah.
- [19:17]
C
By the stats at the time, a kai lemon averaged 96 receiving yards per game. Jeremiah Smith averaged 86. Right. But again, like, I do so, like, it's. It's. It's a little bit of reasoning, but again, I. I don't know what a better solution is, but also like, angry Jeremiah Smith and then like, Marv didn't win it in 2021, in 23. So, like, they owe him one. The ballet.
- [19:40]
A
Don't we think that's an issue, though? Because I do think there's probably a lot of LSU fans who are very angry that Malik Neighbors didn't win it in 2023. I think. Yeah. Mark, we, again, we live in this bubble, and so we understand what's going on with Ohio State more than the rest of the country. But Malik Neighbors was kind of awesome, and I think they have a case to be. I think there was a case to be made then. And so we have gotten into this world with awards where it's, we owe you one because we messed up. So if JJ, listen, JJ's gonna have, like, 90 catches for 1500 yards and, like, 19 touchdowns next year when him and Juliet are playing catch. Fine. But what if his numbers are 67, 12, 12, and there is a guy, whether it's at LSU or USC or Tennessee or anywhere else, who's got 97 catches for 1400 yards and 14 touchdowns and was legitimately a better player that year. From a production standpoint, we're just supposed to go, I mean, come on, man. Did we watch ball just because we didn't give it to J.J. when he probably. Yeah, that's my issue with this.
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B
I don't.
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A
I'm not mad. Makai Lemon won the award. I mad at the structure in the process of how we hand out awards, because it puts us in these situations where next year we're gonna go, come on, man. JJ can't leave college football without this award. Right. And it's like, if he didn't earn it, he shouldn't get it. That's all. That's. That's my issue with a lot of the things we do in college football.
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C
But, I mean, if. If you could pick, who should the two winners have been Jalen Hyatt and Marvin Harrison Jr. Or Marvin Harrison Jr. And Malik Neighbors. Definitely better. But Stephen, the way you' about this, like, how the Oscars work, it's like, whatever. Al Pacino doesn't win for the Godfather, so then he does have to win for Scent of a Woman or whatever, right? And it's like, well, because you owe him one. And then you wind up all the way down.
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A
You.
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C
You give it to the wrong person here and then it screws up stuff down the line. So you're right. But also, I don't want to know what Jeremiah Smith's gonna post on the Internet next year if he doesn't win. Oh, my God. Fair point number two. I know you guys had a discussion on Buckeye. Talk about this. Stefan, we'll start 2026 Heisman next year. Your pick, the favorite, how you're thinking about it. Where are you with the 2026 Heisman Trophy discussion right now?
- [22:04]
E
Doug, what is your rule on the show about mentioning Lenora Sellers in this conversation?
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B
Oh, no, no.
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C
As long as you acknowledge the puffed up midness of the SEC when discussing Lenora Sellers. You may proceed.
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B
I have a clarifying question. Is he transferring? Otherwise, what are we talking about?
- [22:26]
E
Seems like he's getting more money to stay at South Carolina.
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B
Yeah. Such a good job developing him to this point.
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E
Since I'm going first, I guess I could take the boring one and probably the right one. I think the favorite is, is going to be Julian say, and I think for all the right reasons. Right. He showed us this year how good he can be. And I thought everything that Ryan Day said on the stage when they kind of went through player by player of interviews in that ceremony, and he's talking about how ridiculous it is that Julian is doing this in year one as a starter and what that means for him, you know, next year and beyond as he continues to develop as a, a quarterback and someone who, you know, understands this offense and can run this offense, command the huddle, all that, all the stuff that Ryan Day, you know, always talks about with his quarterbacks. It's scary to think about what next year with Julian saying could look like. I don't know, 90 completion percentage, get all the, get all the numbers boosted from where he was. Because I think the funny part about it is the numbers he put up this year were, were good enough to win the Heisman. Right. He just lost a head to head game with Fernando Mendoza and it ended up affecting, you know, the way the voting went and, and what, you know, where his standing was in that. If his season goes exactly like that next year and he wins that final game, he probably wins the Heisman. So he's showing you that he can do everything to win the Heisman Trophy. And I just think another year in the system, it's, it's enough for me to think that he's going to do it next year. So there's obviously a ton of candidates around the country that are intriguing. There's a ton in the portal.
- [23:52]
A
Right.
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E
Like, I don't know, I could say Indiana quarterback. And at this point we feel pretty confident that after what Rorke Mendoza did that Indiana might have a quarterback that could be in the conversation. I'm sure if you say Oregon quarterback and you know, maybe, maybe I'm stealing people's answers so I'll stop. But Julian saying, Julian saying is my pick. I just think another year of another off season, we'll see what he does in his playoff run. Again, like this is a chance where I think the last taste he kind of left in everyone's mouth was that was not a particularly, you know, not a particularly exciting performance that, that he put up in Indianapolis. Okay, how do we talk about Julian saying if he goes on a three game tear and they win a national championship this year, are we spending an off season where NFL GMs are being like, oh, we're passing on quarterbacks this year because there's a dude next year year, like there's a guy coming out next year. Julian saying, you see what he did in the playoff, he's a chance to really kind of change the narrative the way he's talked about in this three game stretch going into the off season. So I think it's going to be an off season full of a lot of praise for Julian saying, a lot of hype. If he does this year, next year what he did this year and maybe wins that game at the end right before the Heisman Trophy voting, I think he's going to win it.
- [24:58]
B
Is Lenora Sellers transferring to Indiana.
- [25:02]
A
Dj.
- [25:03]
C
Like why he's going to.
- [25:06]
D
Drew.
- [25:07]
E
Drew, Is it Musta Maker from North?
- [25:09]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [25:10]
E
There's been some reports about him getting some Indiana hype. So I, I like him. I think he's a pretty good player.
- [25:14]
C
Yeah, I mean like transfer X. So are you doing that Atlantis as your pick, Indiana quarterback X, whoever they get in the portal?
- [25:21]
A
No.
- [25:21]
B
Although I guess what's the, what's the run here? It's been like five straight transfers or something like that to win the Heisman so it's probably not a bad place to go. I, I think I'm going Jeremiah, to be honest, it was interesting to me. Now Julian like totality of points was significantly ahead of Jeremiah. But first place votes, Julian got eight, Jeremiah got four. I thought that was interesting. And, and I, I do wonder if, and maybe this is wishful thinking. Like is, is the Heisman sort of like voting body going to start getting, I don't know if smarter is the right word or. We would begin to think about this a little differently if we're entering an era of college football where some of these passing numbers just aren't going to be like the Joe Burrow, Jaden Daniels pick your quarterback previous to those guys kind of years and like the quote unquote best quarterback in the country has 33 touchdown passes, which I like is great. I'm not saying the Fernando Mendoza wasn't deserving. Will there be any kind of pivot to just like actual like greatness kind of, kind of like, like I believe that this guy just is the actual best player in the sport. And there were some stuff in the voting this year whether it was Jeremiah's first place votes, Caleb Downs being on the ballot. Right. I think, I think maybe people are starting to show a little bit more of an open mind to. It's just not the best quarterback on the best team. Which makes me think that Jeremiah's got a, obviously he's got a good shot to win it. He's super famous. But I think maybe his rise to like what should be his Heisman year might be coinciding with a bit of a shift in the way the Heisman voters think about things that could actually get him the trophy.
- [27:02]
C
I think that is a super interesting case because I think the thing that hurt Jeremiah Smith's Heisman candidacy the most this year was Carnell Tate and Carnell Tate's not going to be here. And just like quick like, who's Ohio State's number two receiver next year? Stephen, who's Ohio State's number two receiver?
- [27:19]
A
That's, that was going to be my point.
- [27:21]
C
Okay, Stefan, who's. Who's the number two receiver for Ohio State next year?
- [27:26]
E
Prince Henry Jr. Yeah.
- [27:27]
C
Bill, who, who's number two next year?
- [27:30]
B
Quincy Porter.
- [27:31]
C
Okay, so like I, I do think like buying answer is kind of Jeremiah and we just have to acknowledge like receivers winning it is just uncommon. Right. That I don't count Travis Hunter as receiver because he won it because he was a two way player. That's a different thing than Being a receiver. So we're talking devonte Smith, we're Desmond Howard, we're talking Tim Brown, we're talking Johnny Rogers. Like, it's not a long history of it, but is this the guy? Is this the guy to signal a shift? I do think, Bill, your point about stats is. Is for quarterbacks is very interesting, but I just wonder, Stephen, and if you're going this way anyway, like, how. How much could Jeremiah dominate the Ohio State passing game next year statistically? Eye test. Just like, will the greatness emerge? But then there's also the conversation of, well, if. If the second guy is significantly less of a threat.
- [28:25]
A
Yeah.
- [28:25]
C
What does that mean? Are there just. Are there six safeties covering Jeremiah every play? But like, that is that I think has to factor into the thinking a little bit, right, Stephen?
- [28:33]
A
I mean, it's why devonte Smith won the Heisman Trophy. Jaden Wall got hurt. So all of a sudden the entire offense gets funneled through him. Marvin was awesome in 2023. He became the entire offense because a Mecca Buka had an injury that essentially hampered him the entire year. So. And then Kyle McCord doesn't know how to throw the ball to anybody else But Marvin Harrison Jr. Which is fine. I don't think it's an issue throwing the ball to number four player in the country.
- [28:56]
B
I thought. I thought you're gonna say he doesn't know how to throw the ball. Full stop.
- [28:59]
A
No, no, no. Listen, we respect the ACC's record breaker for your passing yards in the season over here, okay? We respect that. We always will respect that, even though it was in a dome. But we respect it. It's. It's. To build to your point, who finished fifth in the Heisman this year? Texas Tech's linebacker, who, quite frankly, if they didn't go to this place of. We have to bring four. I think he would have been in New York alongside those four guys. To be frank, he was their best Heisman Trophy candidate. I. I'm going with Jeremiah because we don't know about wide receiver too. Brandon Ennis. I think he is a very serviceable slot receiver. They've chosen not to throw him the ball this year. We. I think after a while we have gotten to this point where we just expect the receivers to be good because they all have five stars next to their name or their top 80 recruits. This is the first year where I think that's backfired. Right. Myelin Graham is in the second part of his second year at Ohio State by this point. Jackson Smith, the Jigba was better than Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave by this point. Marvin Harrison Jr. Was the best receiver in college football by this point. A Mecca Buka was a thousand yard receiver by this point. Garrett Wilson, I have fallen in love.
- [30:10]
B
With you in 2020, right?
- [30:11]
A
That's not true this year with Myelin Graham. Bryson Rogers is going into Year four and he's been a rotational guy at best. Quincy Porter, maybe Bill, but we haven't had a chance to see him because he's been on and off the Availability report. That's a kid who I think had a really good spring and then I don't know what happened this summer and this fall, but he has kind of taking a nosedive in terms of where his momentum may be and so Stefan's joking about Chris Henry Jr. I do think the door is open, at least for a guy that Ohio State spent all of last week worried about instead of the Big Ten Championship game to maybe be a starter next year. But again, there's only one Jeremiah Smith. So are we expecting Chris Henry Jr. To have 1200 yards next year? No. We'll be pleasantly surprised if he does. And as we've seen with Julian Sam, if you go down the seam and you're not wearing 17 or 4, he's probably not going to throw you the ball. So I do think at least the first month and a half of the season where I think there's going to be some better competition than they played this past year if this turns into Julian sand and Jeremiah Smith are playing catch. And you mix that with Stats are shiny. But this isn't 2014, so quarterbacks aren't racking up 4,000 passing yards and 500 rushing yards and 55 total TDs anymore. That's how you get into a world of this is already the best player in college football. He's the only weapon that his star quarterback trusts in the passing game where it's either throw it to Jeremiah or hand it off to Bo Jackson or Isaiah west. And Ohio State is at worst 10 and 2. Here you go, number 4. We didn't give you the balletnikov last year, but we're oh yeah. So we're giving you everything you can imagine this year. The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices, life to focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day.
- [32:04]
B
The attention to detail is like none.
- [32:06]
A
Other we are the winner.
- [32:10]
D
T takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [32:14]
A
It's time to bring it first round.
- [32:15]
D
Coverage of the College Football Playoff presented by all state Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO Max.
- [32:21]
A
Are you ready?
- [32:27]
D
Getting more as a Myloes Pro Rewards member is easier than ever with the Lowe's app. Download it today and earn 500 points the first time you log in. Plus your digital wallet helps you scan, save, earn and access what you need to manage it all in one place. Download the Lowe's app and take advantage of your pro benefits. Today. Lowe's we help you save. Valid 12, 125 through 1726 offer valid for first login per organization only. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. Additional restrictions apply. Visit lowe's.com terms for more details. Subject to change.
- [32:58]
C
You guys had mentioned some of I wrote down like, you know if Dante Moore is back at Oregon or like Oregon Quarterback X. The Indiana Quarterback X I think is certainly interesting. DJ Lagway from Florida has announced that he is transferring wherever he ends up. Wherever Sam Levitt from Arizona State ends up, I think becomes very interesting. Lenora Sellers, as you mentioned, Stefan back at South Carolina and also Arch, like Arch is going to be back and, and Julian sand and Jeremiah Smith versus Arch Manning in September is again going to be a banger and is going to like help establish a Heisman favorite. But it's just hard because it's hard for receivers. But also maybe this is the guy that breaks all the rules about receivers.
- [33:44]
B
Yeah, C.J. carr. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a. Arch is going to throw like five touchdowns against Michigan in the Citrus bowl and he'll be the odds on favorite to win next year.
- [33:52]
C
Oh yeah, congratulations.
- [33:53]
B
And then people will lose a lot of money. It'd be great.
- [33:55]
C
Oh yeah, congratulations to Arch. All right, Bill Landis, question number three to you. Ohio State has five first team All Americans so far as things are announced. What word would you one word would you use to describe Ohio State's overall talent this season?
- [34:12]
B
I, I kind of chose to spin this a different way. I would say like proof, maybe for lack of a better word, and proof in the fact that I, I think Ohio State's plan to rely more on its scouting and development of high school players is the right course of action. If you think about like some of these all Americans, right, like Kaden Curry, good high school player but not a five star. But Ohio State, like he was a high, high priority for Ohio State but maybe he wasn't for a lot of other teams and it took him four years to get there, but man, is he a great player now. Kaden McDonald, one of the best defensive tackles in the country under recruited for his talent. But Ohio State got him, prioritized him. I think he can like Arvell Reese, right? Like, no one really knew what Arvell was going to be coming out of high school other than he was super athletic. And Ohio State tapped into something really special there and turned him into a heck of a player. I think you can say that about like, you know, he's not an all American. Maybe Austin Serraval on the offensive line, right? We'll see. It's hard to say that about Jeremiah and Carnell because they were, they were five stars and Julian was a five star. So like, you certainly you can develop those guys. There's plenty of programs that take five stars and ruin them and State doesn't seem to do that either. But I think as Ohio State enters this new world where you. I really do think you kind of have to choose whether you're going to be a portal team or a high school team, because I think trying to straddle the line between both is just going to invite some issues that, that maybe derail you from time to time. What some of these players for Ohio State have done this year, sort of kind of lurking and hiding in plain sight until it was their time to play and then turning into bona fide stars is a pretty good validation, I think, of the plan that Ohio State would prefer to have.
- [35:58]
C
Very good. Well said. So five first team all Americans. I think, like as we sit right now that have been announced, there's still more all American teams being announced. Jeremiah Smith, R.L. reese, Caleb Downs, Kaden McDonald and Kaden Curry. Maybe Carnell Tate could be in that mix. Certainly the injury hurt him. Julian saying, it's just hard. At quarterback Sonny Styles, maybe. So five already. The record for first team All Americans for Ohio State in a season is seven in 1974. Seven in 1974. They had six in 1970 and they had five and 42, 69, 21 and this year. And I don't know why I can't get this through my thick skull, but I'd still surprising to me. I've been doing this for two decades and I'm still like, man, that Ohio State player got good. I didn't know that was going to happen. And I just have this thing stuck in my head of being, I think at media day for the national championship game and going around and Talking to Kaden McDonald and Orville Reese and being like, isn't it cool that you guys get to be in the goal line package? Cool. Good job by You. And then it's like, yeah, ding dong, we're going to be all Americans next year when we get our shot. And I just never stop being surprised by it because as soon as you think, well, that's it, they're out of talent. It's like they never are. And Stephen, someday I'll learn, but I haven't so far. So my number, my word is surprising. Stephen, what's yours?
- [37:16]
A
Validation. And it's for everybody who thought Ryan Day would be good at this. So Gene Smith, Urban Meyer, right? Ross Bjork doubling down on this last year when quite frankly, a case could have been made that he could have come out and said, in, you know.
- [37:34]
E
80 speak, you better win a natty.
- [37:36]
A
Or I'm gonna go find a new guy. And I mean, both of you have said it like you're talking. Hayden McDowell was playing fullback a year ago, and now he's the best defensive play, defensive lineman in the Big Ten. Right? Arvl Reese. That's not a five star. That's a dude from Glenville. Like Ryan Day took it upon himself to go reestablish that pipeline with Glenville. And yes, Arvo Reese is the first through the line there, but Bryce west is coming down. Ch change sincere Johnson will be here in about a month and a half here, like that's on and going now, right? And that's Ryan Day's world. This is no longer Ryan Day is benefiting from Urban Meyer's world. This is Ryan Day benefiting from his own world and having some foresight on how to do things and how to do things the right way. And that's not saying if you want to be Lane Kiffin and go portal hopping every single year, you can't do that. But there is a proven way to win national championship championships. And Ryan Day has applied his formula, adapted where he's needed to adapt. Most of these guys are homegrown talent. Even Julian saying, I get it, he was at Alabama for two weeks. But that dude that's gonna be his Alabama jersey is going to be like Quinn, yours's Alabama jersey, where our kids one day are going to be at a college with a jersey on at a festival. Oh, yeah, I forgot that was the case, that they played there.
- [38:45]
E
That's crazy. Isn't that crazy?
- [38:46]
A
But build through the recruiting world, supplement through the transfer portal, which as Mark Pantoni said, that's like how the NFL draft works. Yeah, that's how the NFL works. You build through the draft and you supplement through free agency. And I think for A guy who is seven years into his head coaching career, regardless of where he's at, for him to have mastered this formula, and granted he's had the best possible place to do so, but when they lose eight or nine defensive starters after this season, I think Ryan Day has validation and benefit of the doubt that their defense will at least be a top 25 defense in 2026 when they lose Carnell Tate. I know I'm worried about the receivers, but the floor for worried about the receivers is like, oh, no, this guy's not the number 17 pick in the NFL Draft. He's the number 47 pick in the NFL draft. This is what a, a healthy program looks like. And so I think if you thought this was crazy to hire a guy who's never done this to come run the healthiest program in college football and the most recession proof program in college football, I mean, that's. Gene Smith could be walking around somewhere. I don't know. I know he was doing some advisor work at Maryland. He can be like, I told you, EQ is off the chain.
- [39:58]
C
I think Gene has a sweatshirt that says I told you walking around on the, on the beach. Yeah, no, I'm sure that's right. Stefan, what's your word?
- [40:05]
E
Yeah, Nike's new slogan. I told you, the, the word I went with is, is patience. And it taps into a little bit of, of what you guys all refer to there.
- [40:16]
B
Of.
- [40:17]
E
This is a team that's built on Julian saying Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, Sonny Styles. Right. These guys are super highly recruited. But also, I don't know if this year's team is as good if, if, you know, they don't have the, the Kaden Curry's, the Arvo Rees, everything you guys mentioned there, and it is validation and proof and, and you know everything about Ohio State's approach, Right. It shows you that this is the right way to do it. I want to give some credit to the players. Right. Like it, it's an environment in college football today where, you know, Kaden Curry's talked about it before. Like it's, it's no secret that teams went after him. It's no secret that despite never entering the transfer portal, he probably had some lucrative deals to go to some other schools. Right. And he decided to stay. Kenyatta Jackson decided to stay. Of course, Ohio State, you know, is compensating them as well. It's not like they stayed for free, Right. It's not like they were staying just because of the block O. Even though that's probably a Big part of it. There's not a lot of guys in college football that would do that. And it's, it's a balance of Ohio State having the right approach and showing those guys the vision and the commitment that they have to them. And hey, if you decide to stay, we're not going to turn around and go get seven guys from the portal and show you that it was a poor decision for you to stay. Ohio State backed it up, but those guys had to do it too. So this is the word I'm going with because it's like I'm 26. It was not long ago that I was in college and I did not make all the best decisions in my life, right? Like, let alone if you have millions of dollars offered on table. I went to Indiana. I had a great time in Indiana. If the media school professor at Ohio State threw a few million dollars my way, guess what I would have been on. My parents would have drove down to Bloomington and picked me up and said, hey, we're going to Columbus. You're about to start wearing Scarlett Gray a whole lot more. So I just think it's, it's a tough thing to do when you're that age to have. And I'm sure their parents and agents or whatever, you know, keep them well informed as well, but it's not an easy thing to do. So I think the patience that a guy like Kaden Curry showed, it's a testament to them and their decision to stay at Ohio State and help make this season possible.
- [42:18]
C
The journalism transfer portal. Ah, someday. Someday, my friends, someday. All right, let's get to question number four. This is off the Ohio State State topic, but it relates to Ohio State. On a scale of 1 to 100, how much do you believe in Indiana football and how much do you believe in Michigan football? And I said like, just like, whatever that means, right? Is it right now? Is it now and in the future? Is it in the future, whatever. So it was like we're giving 1 to 1 to 100 ratings for both these programs and I want to do a quick little comparison first to set the table here a little bit. Between 1983 and 2006, the University of Miami had the best winning percentage in college football and Clemson was 19th for winning percentage in college football. In those 24 years, Miami had 14 double digit win seasons and Clemson had four. 2007. So Larry Coker's last year is 2006. And that's kind of the end of like the Jimmy Johnson, Dennis Erickson, Butch Davis, like Larry Coker kind of vibe of things. Right. So 2007, Larry Coker in with those guys? Yeah, well, he, he got a, he got a fumes national championship, he gets a fumes championship. Randy Shannon takes over. And so that. And then Dabo comes to Clemson in 2009. So I used 2007 as the cutoff. 17 years, 2007 to 2023, Clemson fourth best winning percentage in college football. Miami 42nd. Clemson 12. Double digit win seasons. Miami won. So Miami equals Michigan, Clemson equals Indiana. That's kind of the path I'm laying out here. Between 1997 and 2023. That's Michigan's 97 national championship on their 23 national championship. All the years in between. Michigan 10th best winning percentage. Indiana the 112th best winning percentage. Michigan 13 double digit win seasons. Indiana 0. The last two years, Indiana's 242 and Michigan 17 and 8. I like the comparison. I'm not sure why Indiana can't be Clemson. And whatever Michigan does next, they're not going to get a coach as good as Kurt Signetti. I'm an 800. I'm an 80 on Indiana. An 80 out of 180 on Indiana because like I got just, I know they just did a 60 Minutes piece. Their quarterback just won the Heisman. They're undefeated number one. They might win the national championship. I'm not, I'm not a thousand percent sure. It keeps going once, like these JMU guys are washed out a little bit. I think it will. I can't get all the way there, but I'm a 60 on Michigan because I'm also not 100% sure that Michigan's gonna fall off a cliff, but they might. Steven. Indiana 80, Michigan 60. Where are you? 800.
- [45:13]
A
No, I'm joking. 76 on Indiana because it's. There's this element to Kirk Signetti everywhere he's been. And I know he says google me, so I did google him. Everywhere he's been. He's never just been there for the long haul. So he wins. But he doesn't build necessarily a program, which is why this is so interesting because he's brought so many guys from his last stop to this stop and this is the type of stop where, I mean, was that contract like eight years? He's here. He's not going anywhere unless Michigan does something weird here and pulls him from Indiana, which I don't think is actually.
- [45:47]
E
Going to happen because then there are.
- [45:49]
A
Probably some boosters at Indiana who are going to go, no, we just got him. Yeah, we're not letting you steal him from us.
- [45:55]
C
Mark Cuban's not letting that happen.
- [45:56]
A
No, no, no, no, no. Not at this point.
- [45:58]
C
They've.
- [45:58]
A
They've seen, they've tasted good food. They don't want to go back to the depth of what they. Where they came game 76. Because this is in the moment and you want to see how he builds on it. Right. He's even said it. At some point, you want to get out of the portal game and start building through recruiting. And I think I would have been at 56 had you asked me this before they won last Saturday. But I do think Heisman Big Ten championship game, and they were already poking around at some highly rated recruits. You got some hardware behind you now. Maybe that gets you in the door. Not just in the door, but you can start closing some things. I'm open to that I. I'm also open to. This is a new world of college football where there's opportunity. The two highest finishers in the Heisman Trophy race rate went to Indiana and Vanderbilt. Who would have thought that 10 years ago, right? And so I'm at 76 for Indiana because you now have my attention. I'm out of 46 for Michigan. I'm not just going to say because you're a blue blood, you're 100. Always going to be good. There's only one team who has been always good, and that's Ohio State. Nebraska, once upon a time thought they were impenetrable. Now look at where Nebraska is. You just brought up Miami, and now they're the team that every September and October we build belief in just for them to completely kill that belief by November. Right. I am not sure if Penn State made the right move firing James Franklin with how this coaching cycle has gone. We live in this world where I think anything is possible. And that means Indiana, who is historically one of the worst college football programs in the history of the sport, is currently the best team in college football. But it also means you better be sure about the decisions you're making in your front office and your administration, because we're also moving. Like this train is wherever our destination is. We're not close to that with how we do things in the sport. And what you don't want to do is fall behind in this race, because I do believe that if you fall behind now, you're not going to catch up and then you're going to be new to raffle or you're going to be new Miami or you're going to be usc, where Lincoln Riley's had to spend the first three years just getting that program out of the gutter. So be sure about decisions you make. And I get it like, this is not the, the Tron Moore. Things gotten a little bit more serious than just dumb stuff. So I'm not going to talk about that flippantly. But I do not think Michigan, it's in their best interest to be looking for a head coach right now because what you don't want to start happening is what we've seen where you thought everybody would be in line to take the job and instead the program they're currently at just threw money at them. And now you're hiring Matt Campbell. The College Football Playoff is everywhere. Toughness, growth, sacrifices. Is this where I 50 everything you got all damn day.
- [48:49]
B
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [48:52]
C
Keep physical, keep playing.
- [48:53]
D
We are the winner. Tulane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [48:59]
A
It's time to bring it first round.
- [49:00]
D
Coverage of the college Football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO Max.
- [49:06]
A
Are you ready?
- [49:07]
D
Let's go. Getting more as a my Loews Pro Rewards member is easier than ever with the Lowe's app. Download it today and earn 500 points the first time you log in. Plus, your digital wallet helps you scan, save, earn and access what you need to manage it all in one place. Download the Lowe's app and take advantage of your pro benefits today. Lowe's we help you save. Valid 12,125, 1726 offer valid for first login per organization only. Loyalty program subject to terms and conditions. Additional restrictions apply. Visit lowe's.com terms for more details. Subject to change.
- [49:43]
C
Fascinating hire for Michigan. And like, it's hard to give a rating right now because we don't know what the hire is going to be, but. Stefan, where are you?
- [49:51]
E
Yeah, with Indiana, I'm at, I'm at an 87. I, I just think it's everything they've done to this point has been so much what Signetti had at James Madison, bringing those guys over, you know, developing the guys that stayed at Indiana, going out, getting rendezvous and stuff like that, there's just, just, it's hard to put a value on what it means to beat Ohio State and win the Heisman. And I think that with those two things happening this past week, I just think it makes everything feel a bit more sustainable than it was two weeks ago. Right. I think recruiting can improve. You could still be a team that gets, you know, high, high level players out of the transfer portal we were just talking about, Mr. Maker, is going to be one of the biggest, you know, names in. In the portal this cycle, at least in terms of quarterbacks. Like there is. It's just hard to put a value on proving doing things at the highest level. Right. Like, it feels like with Signetti this year, everyone waited for that fall off and it didn't happen. And now it's like, I don't know, it'd be pretty surprising if they don't win eight games next year, which is crazy to think that. That Indiana got to that point, right? How quickly it's gotten to that point. And it just feels more sustainable now than it did a couple weeks ago because of. Of the level of accomplishment. Right. Like Ohio State's trophy room. You like that. That speaks volumes when recruits walk in, right? You see that? I. I don't know what they're gonna do with the Heisman and the Big Ten trophy. It's probably not a whole room. Maybe it's like Signetti's like, hey, look behind me on my desk, like, you're.
- [51:20]
A
Gonna build a big statue of Mendoza.
- [51:23]
E
Yeah, that's true.
- [51:24]
B
Yeah.
- [51:24]
C
And he could have the Heisman in one hand and the Big Ten championship in the other. Maybe the national championship in the other. Oh, yeah, Statue and Mendoza statue. To be fair, two statues. Two statues, yeah.
- [51:34]
E
There's. Mark Cuban can help fund that, too, building some statues. So I just. I picked 87 because that's also the last time the basketball team won a national title. So it's like, it's been a long. It's been a long time. And there's maybe a lot of people who are like, hey, what if we give money to Signetti instead of the basketball team? Which there's going to be some old Indiana fans who are like, there was already a message award post that was like, would you give them Signetti if they gave you Dusty May. And it's like, all right, like, you gotta take a breath. But. But I think it just feels. It feels more sustainable now because they've reached, I don't want to say the mountaintop, because the mountaintop, I think, is a national championship. But breeding Ohio State winning a Heisman is pretty close to the mountaintop. And being, you know, the number one team in the undefeated team, I think that could do wonders for recruiting Michigan. I'm at a 50 because it's like, what the hell is about to happen? Like, hey, hey. Insert coach's name. Come, Coach Michigan. Look at the block M. All that. Very intriguing. I Saw a clip that even Dave Portnoy had like said this, like the whole athletic department is under investigation right now. Like that's not, that's not an intriguing situation to walk into. So I went with the 50 because I'm just in the middle of, I don't know where this is going to go. You know, we can't pretend like Michigan, like they were not the face of consistency before Jim Harbaugh arrived. And Jim Harbaugh is like, I don't know, in terms of top whatever football coaches across the NFL and college right now. He's, he's pretty high up there. He's one, wherever he's been and even him, it took some shady stuff to, you know, get Michigan to the mountaintop there. Who are you going to get now that, that can take you back to that level while your whole athletic department is being investigated because you know, everyone wants your ad fired and there's guys getting arrested all the time, guys getting, you know, show causes all the time. It's just, it's a weird, weird spot for Michigan athletics because two years ago they're finally winning a national championship and they've got this winning streak against Ohio State and it feels like they're unstoppable. And now it's like, okay, what were you before Jim Harbaugh? It wasn't necessarily the best thing.
- [53:35]
C
Yeah.
- [53:35]
E
And you might be getting back to that point. I, I, it's like it's a seesaw where I don't know which way it's about to go for Michigan.
- [53:41]
C
I will say that, like I thought Ohio State was going to be in that spot in 2011. And then Urban Meyer came and saved them. So all Michigan has to do is hire one of the 10 best coaches in college football history who grew up in the state with a Wolverine in his pocket.
- [53:58]
E
Right.
- [53:59]
C
I mean like that's Jim, can you come? Would you want to come? So like that. And then the other thing is I am now gonna for the next week think about cross college, cross sport coaching trades. And who says no to Kurt Signetti for Dusty May? Like I like on what. That's the greatest coaching trade I could ever think of. That Indiana's like, yeah, two year old football thing was cool, but like then we traded Signetti for a basketball coach and look where we are now. And Signetti, it's like, who's going to come save Michigan football? Kurt Signetti would be a great answer to that question. So thanks for planting that seed. Stefan Landis, where are you on these?
- [54:44]
B
I'm a like a 50 on Michigan. I've just like they've, they've messed this up far too recently for me to think that they're definitely going to nail it.
- [54:55]
A
Right.
- [54:55]
B
It wasn't that long ago that Rich Rod and Brady Hoak happened. Right. So, and even like, obviously Sharon Moore was a pretty poor job too, in hindsight. So I have no idea what's going to happen there. And they've demonstrated an ability to sort of have the floor drop out on them a little bit. So really, really no, no confidence whatsoever that they're definitely going to keep things going. So I'm at a 50 there. I'll probably be a little higher on Indiana. I'm like a 90 on Indiana. I, I like the concerns about what happens when all the jam, you guys sort of matriculate through it, I think are well founded. But I, I just asked myself the question, like, well, okay, who, who got those guys in the first place? Who helped turn those guys into players that they are? It's the staff that's in Indiana that I don't think is going anywhere. And Brian Haynes, their defensive coordinator, who's excellent, just re upped like he's, he's there at least another year. I don't know how much longer they can hold on to him, but they're going to hold on to for at least another year, if not two. I think they are going to pivot to high school recruiting. I was just like coming through some of the recruiting classes that you guys were talking. They signed seven, four star prospects in this last recruiting class, which I get isn't a lot, but it's a ton for Indiana and I'm interested to see where, where it goes moving forward. And you know, this is, this is a program that I think in the past has been able to land some talent and perhaps just not maximize it. Like, if you go back and look at sort of like the last time Indiana had a couple of winning seasons, right. Was like 1920. And the recruiting class immediately followed that.
- [56:22]
C
1920.
- [56:23]
B
20202019 and 2020.
- [56:26]
C
Oh, oh, I thought you said 1920 and you were being like, let's go back old, old left lefty Johnson back. No, sorry. Okay.
- [56:35]
A
If you would have found those recruiting classes, I just think that's the pod.
- [56:38]
B
I have a database of Indiana classes going back to 1900. I was looking at the 2022 recruiting class off the heels of the 2019 and 2020 seasons for Indiana and that class like produced a bunch of current starters for this Indiana team. Carter Smith was In that class. Bones Jones is in that class. Omar Cooper was in that class. Jamari Sharp was in that class. Lewis Moore was in that class. Brendan Sorsby, who's an excellent quarterback in Cincinnati, was in that class. Is a program that can get good players when it's good. And it's just never been good long enough, I think, to turn that into anything. But I think Kurt Signetti has it there. So I just, I don't, I don't think they're going anywhere. Will they be a national title contender every year? No. That's hard. Like that's reserved for three or four programs in the sport, I guess, year over year. Maybe like two programs in the sport year over year. But I think Indiana is going to be hanging out around that conversation most years as long as Kurt Signetti is there. So I'm, I'm very confident in that. So give me, give me a 90 there.
- [57:34]
C
Our average is Indiana 83, Michigan 52. All right, let's do rapid fire on this. More like 30 second answers on this because people aren't here to listen to us like dive into playoff formats. But my fifth question here for everybody was, what's the perfect playoff format? Maybe you want to go back to four. Maybe you think something in between at eight. Maybe you want to expand to 24. Stephen, what's your perfect format?
- [57:58]
A
10, two, four auto bids, two buys. Because there's just not, there's not more than 10 teams on a given year who can say realistically we can win a national title. Okay, so I get it. Money, all that stuff matters. But if we were really serious about only having teams in it, who can realistically do what Ohio State did last year in that type of run? 10 teams, top two get buys, four auto bids. The rest are at large.
- [58:26]
C
Okay, Stefan, what's your ideal? That's pretty good.
- [58:30]
B
Works for me.
- [58:30]
C
Stefan, where are you?
- [58:32]
E
I'm going up a little bit. I'm going up to 16. I think I like the format that the Big Ten is kind of in favor of the 4, 4, 2, 2 auto bids and then, you know, at largest from there. I like the idea of more meaningful football without necessarily needing 700 College Football Playoff games. So like 24 is not exactly, you know, as high as I would go. But I like the idea of these play ins instead of the conference championship games. Right. I do think as much as that game in Indianapolis mattered and you can tell, you know, by the happiness of Indiana fans and, you know, maybe the, you know, the, the anger from Ohio State side of Just how that game mattered. But I think it'd be cool to have some playing games in Indy where it's like Oregon versus Iowa this year or you know, last year. I think it would have been like Illinois vs. Ohio State playing for a spot in the College Football Playoff. I also think the ACC in the Big 12 if, if they don't accept two auto bids, I don't know what we're doing based on what we saw this year. So I like the 16 format that the Big Ten's in favor of.
- [59:30]
C
Where are you, Landis?
- [59:32]
B
I'm pretty good with what we have. I think, I think like I, I like 10. I can get on board with more than, than the current 12, but I, I think it's actually kind of okay the way it is, especially now that we've changed the structure of who gets a buy game. My bigger thing with the, with the playoff is I would like to see like the bowl games kind of removed from it, if almost entirely, and play more of these games on campus. Maybe bring the Bulls in for the semifinals or, or just bring the bowl, get Bulls in for the national championship, however you want to do that. But otherwise I don't mind the 12. I don't mind the, the top five highest ranked conference champions getting automatic bids. I guess you could tweak that a little bit if you wanted to. I do think there are more teams capable of winning national titles now. Like, I think, I think an increased field is reflective of what's happening in the sport with the way the talent is flattening out. Like 12 team playoff. Probably one of them made much sense 10 years ago, to be honest. But if you look at the quality of teams across the country, how some of the absolute best teams are maybe not quite as good as they used to be, and you see teams like Indiana and Vanderbilt rising all of a sudden, I do think it makes sense to have at least a 10 team playoff, but I think 12 is fine.
- [60:43]
C
Yeah. And I'm really, I think they got it right by accident because. And one of the things that really matters to me, and I think I'd keep it almost right where it is, is where the cut line is. And there were seven teams that had two losses in the regular season this year in the power four. And three got in and four got left out. And the three that got in were the three that had the best wins and the four that got left out. It's like you didn't have a win that really like, like was signifying enough. And I, I like right I think that's like, again, maybe by accident, but that like all the undefeated teams are in it. One loss, everybody gets a bad weekend. And then like two losses, you're in trouble, but you're not dead. And I think like, that almost matters as much. It's almost like to some degree, I think the regular season, the way the sport plays out, will tell you where the, where the playoff should be. And I just don't think like this regular season would tell you that we need 24, but I also don't think this regular season would tell you that 4 would work anymore. So I think like 10, 12, 16 is all where we are. But I, I wish, and I don't know if we're going to. I wish we just kind of let this percolate a little bit because I think we might find it like, oh, you know what? Like, this is actually pretty darn good. And it feels like maybe we're going to get to another expansion quicker than that. Anyway. Gentlemen, Buckeye Talk, cleveland.com Stephen, what, where, where can the people find you guys? What they, what should they be looking for from you fellas?
- [62:02]
A
Yeah, it's, it's a fun time at Buckeye Talk right now. Ryan Day I said this and you get to the playoff and you can be all football mode because you don't have to worry about a million different things. I think that applies to us in the media, too. When you've got 10 days. Well, we get like four, 30 days because our, the team we cover is good at football. But you get time to just deep dive into stuff. We really deep dive into the opponents, into the weekend stuff. There's not recruiting stuff going on. There's not supposed to be transfer portal stuff going on, but that's just not the way of the world. But yeah, man, it's playoff time. Obviously we'll be all watching the games this weekend and depending on who wins, who loses, we'll be deep diving into Texas A M or Miami over the next 14 days here until we get to the bull side.
- [62:44]
C
Anything else from you, Stefan? What do you got going on?
- [62:46]
E
Yeah, I second all that. Steven says. Maybe some unsolicited, you know, Bears talk that nobody asked about because the Bears, the Bears did beat the Eagles since we, since I was last on the Bill and Doug show.
- [63:00]
C
Wasn'T enough that.
- [63:01]
B
I had to sit next to you as it happened. You got to bring it back up now.
- [63:05]
E
No, no, I'm just providing. Like, I want people to know that, like, I have a lot of respect for Bill I think Bill has respect for me. We, you know, sometimes we hang out and watch football and just the one game we watched was not, not exactly in Bill's favorite. That's fine. Beat me in the NFC championship game or something like that. I'll have to sit in this. But yeah, lots of ball talk. We do talk college football at Buckeye talk, specifically Ohio State football. So. So come join us to talk. Talk more about that than the Bears and the Eagles.
- [63:32]
C
All right, go find those guys, Stephen Means and Stefan Kreischnik. Find them on Buckeye Talk. Wherever you get your podcasts on YouTube, find them at cleveland.com OSU come see me and Bill on our substack billanddugosu.substack.com and I gotta get out of here before we hit an hour and Landis kills me. For Stephen Means and Stefan Kreshnick. For Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lemurice. Thanks to you guys for being here. That was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.
- [64:04]
A
The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, roles, sacrifices. Place your focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day.
- [64:13]
B
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [64:16]
C
Be physical, be flat.
- [64:18]
D
We are the winner. Tulane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [64:23]
A
It's time to bring it first round.
- [64:24]
D
Coverage of the college football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [64:30]
A
Max, are you ready?
- [64:31]
D
Let's get out.
- [64:34]
A
Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in who? Louisville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo?
- [64:44]
D
They shouted.
- [64:45]
A
Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and.
- [64:54]
D
Games to their carts with Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry.
- [64:58]
A
They cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.