← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State Around the Shoe: Don't take Jeremiah Smith for granted, Julian Sayin's legs and more
00:57:54
Ohio State football spring practice has started, and on this episode of Around the Shoe on The Bill and Doug Show, the topics covered include: * New salaries for Ohio State assistants * Guys at practice who caught our eye on offense and on defense * What Ryan Day saying that Julian Sayin's legs are an X-factor really means * How we should think about Jeremiah Smith
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Ball is here. Spring practice has started. That's why we bumped this show from a usual Monday spot to a Wednesday spot so we could all take in the first day of spring practice on Tuesday. Doug Lamaris and Bill Landis joined as always by two outstanding members of the Ohio State beat today. Sam Cipriani from Buckeye Sports Bulletin. Joey Kaufman from the Columbus Dispatch. Sam, you're back for your second attempt at this. Why did you accept this invitation instead of telling us to go cram it? You're never coming on the show again.
- [00:38]
B
Well, I had a great time on the show last time, obviously love what you guys do here on the podcast and yeah, obviously excited to talk about Buckeye sports and the football season being back, so.
- [00:50]
A
And Joey, you have nothing better to do than come on this stinking show? Thanks, man. Why are you here, Joey?
- [00:56]
C
The. The ad pay.
- [00:59]
A
Yeah, man, it's like those royalty checks. That four, that four cent check is coming to your mailbox like by next week as we, as we cash checks here at the Bill and Doug show went around the shoe. Five questions, five topics about Ohio State football. We're gonna zero in on what we saw at Tuesday's practice. But Sam, we're going to start with you for the first question and it's not about SP spring football exactly because Ohio State dropped the assistant coach contracts after spring football practice on Tuesday. Landis, what's the big, what was the big number for the entire staff?
- [01:35]
D
$15.3 million.
- [01:39]
A
And that includes Ryan Day, right? Nope, no, no, that does not. That's just for the middle managers is 15.3 million there's for real. Wow, congratulations to those guys. Sam, that number, what word or phrase would you use to describe the assistant coach salaries released by Ohio State on Tuesday?
- [02:03]
B
I'm gonna say Cha Ching, they, they surely cashed in all the assistance there. And I think obviously the big winner in all that was Matt Patricia. I believe it was a 1.25 million dollar raise up to 3, 3.75 million for 2026. And that's a, that's a raise well deserved. I mean he was arguably the best coordinator, period in all of college football last year and took a defense that, you know, many thought we're going to take a step, slight step back last year losing a lot in 2025 into, you know, a defense that had the top ranked scoring and total defense in the, in the whole nation. And you know, nearly every assistant coach is making over 600k and you got six making, you know, over a million per year and even guys like Streng, Mickey Marioti, you know, making a million dollars. So I mean, pretty much everybody on the staff is, is making a significant amount of money. And yeah, I would, I would say they've, they've definitely cashed in this year.
- [03:05]
A
You know, I, I don't really understand economic policy or politics or anything related to the actual world. The. Did these salaries go up because of tariffs? Does anybody know if that might be. Could that be what part of this is. Can you, can you terrifies college football coaching contracts? Does anyone know that? Would that explain this, why everyone got a big raise?
- [03:32]
D
No, that Patricia is just buying a lot of Canadian lumber and he needs more money to do it.
- [03:38]
A
Joey, what's your phrase? I hope, I hope your phrase, Joey, was not terrifies. What's your word or phrase to describe what's happening with the, with the Buckeye coaches?
- [03:48]
C
I mean, eye popping the numbers. And I really underappreciated for how much salaries have surged in college football. I think we've become numb to just the dollars and cents of it all. But it's not that long ago. Ryan Day in 2018 became Ohio State's first million dollar assistant along with Greg Sciano. And now nearly everybody on staff is a million dollar assistant. Seven out of the 12 position coaches and coordinators are going to make at least a million dollars. When Dave put together his first staff in 19, they only had one assistant making over a million dollars. And that stat salary pool was just over 7 million. It's now over 15 million. So obviously not adjusting for inflation. Not to segue into that lesson, but it's more than double from what it was on today's inaugural staff. And it's not exactly apples to apples because it's a larger staff now because they're no longer the limits. So we're counting 12 primary assistants. It used to be capped at 10, so that's a factor. But just there's. It feels like there's an unlimited supply of money and we've kind of become numb to it, but man doubled in less than a decade.
- [05:10]
A
But, but it is, Joey, I think apples to apples because if your boss says you can plant more trees in the orchard, it's still apples. Apples, right. Like it. It is, it is, it is. It is the willingness that Ohio State has to spend on coaches and there no longer is a cap. But they didn't have to go here. And I thought, Joey, it was interesting. Like Ryan Day sort of said, like thanks, Ross, for signing off on them 12 assistants this year instead of 10.
- [05:39]
C
Right. Because when they lost Brian Harline, he was the wide receivers coach and offensive coordinator. You could have hired one person to do that and had them with a position code, responsibility. Maybe you would have promoted Keenan. If this was done maybe three years ago, what likely would have happened is you would have made Keenan Bailey the wide receivers coach and your new offensive coordinator would have had tight end coaching responsibilities. And you don't hire Cortez Hankton because you are tight ends. And now in 2026, you don't have to worry about that.
- [06:11]
A
Right? Right. Landis, what's your word?
- [06:14]
D
Flex. It's a flex by Ohio State. Part of, part of me wonders if any of that is intentional. Right? Because for some of these guys, they are paying, I think probably like above market value. Like the cost of assistance has gone up over the years. The salary po need to be competitive has gone up. Ohio State is resetting it in a major way with this current group of assistants and in some ways perhaps charting a new course with, with having 12 instead of 10 and having guys who aren't going to be designated off the road recruiters, but still very much part of your sort of main core of assistant coaches. That, that is interesting. But I, I wonder a little bit if. If at a time where Ohio State is not. It's not struggling to put together its roster financially, it has one of the more expensive rosters in the sport, at least it will this year. But there's enough conversation about its ability to be competitive in that area. Much of it driven by the, the outside nil stuff. That is, that has nothing to do with athletic revenue that Ohio State is showing the world here. Like, hey, by the way, we have plenty of athletic revenue. And if ever the world were to come where we can give as much of that as we want as we want to our players, watch out. But at the moment, we can only give as much as much of it as we want to our coaches. So we're going to pay them $50 million.
- [07:30]
A
Yeah, that is, that is such an interesting point, Bill. That really is a sign. Does everybody like Sam, do you think this is a sign that like they're doing this with coaches and if and when they can do it with players and they could do direct payment and not have a limit on that, this is a sign of what they do with players?
- [07:53]
B
I mean, of course, I mean, and this, this era of college football with nil, I mean, it's simply money driven. And at the End of the day, they're going to pay, you know, a premium to get the best coordinators, assistant coaches, whatever. They need to be able to develop the talent at all positions. And you know, it like you, I really like Joey's number or phrase that was eye popping because, I mean, I, I really couldn't believe it. I mean, Matt Patricia is making more money this year than a lot of not a lot, but a few Power 5 head coaches. And it's really unbelievable, you know, just how much the, the Buckeye athletic department is paying these assistants. And, and like Joey said as well, you know, you go back to 10 years and there's only one assistant being paid that much. And it's, it's, it'll only continue to grow with nil. And in the new, new slate of college football.
- [08:56]
C
The, the other thing too, Doug, with these assistant coach salaries, Ohio State's bonus structure for them is even crazier because they can make up to 47% of their base salaries if they go on and win a national championship. So it has a sort of a compounding effect where just, just, just an absurd amount of money.
- [09:18]
A
That's crazy. So like they're making $15.3 million, but if they win it all, they're gonna pay like another 7 million to assistant coaches is what you're saying, Joey, with the bonuses.
- [09:30]
C
Yeah, well, winning it all and winning the Big ten. Yeah, but, yeah, they, it's, which is a good problem to have, I think. I don't think they would mind that payout. But, but it does have that effect down the line if they, they do do what they want to do.
- [09:46]
A
So the 15.3 million to go 9
- [09:48]
D
and 3, like if you're actually good, that's already spent. That's gone. That, that's no matter what.
- [09:54]
A
Yeah, this is fist. 15.3 million to go 4 and 8. Like that's, but if you're actually good, if you actually do the things that you're being paid the 15.3 million to do, we're going to give you another 7 million, man. It's kind of like, like we brought up earlier, it's kind of like the ads on this show, right? If you get a thousand views, everybody makes 4 cents. If you get 2, 000 views, everybody makes 6 cents. Boom shakalaka. So I'm gonna say it's go time. So on this, I, I, I, we talked a little bit about this. You guys, you guys know we have a sub stack. You can go find us. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com We did a big Wednesday show where we touched on this a little bit. But. But here's where I'm a little bit. I don't know if conflict is the right word, but Ohio State, I think, has always occupied this very interesting place where they are the dominant force in the Big Ten. They are the dominant force in this part of the country. They're the team that everybody is looking up at here. But when they go out into the world or they look from afar, there are reasons they can be jealous of or worried about Texas or Georgia or Alabama or. Or some teams like that. Right. Like, oh, man, those guys. Like, those guys are crazy. Or those guys. And. And I. This is like a reminder to me of. I think just like, all those days are just totally gone, that Ohio State maybe is just, like, the favorite, the standard at every level of the sport in every way, all the time. And they won a national championship, and that means that. But, like, resources, financially, like. Bill, you were sort of talking, maybe there's still some programs, like, pushing it on nil in a way that Ohio State quite isn't. But, like, they have more money than anybody. They have the largest athletic department. They're now spending it like nobody else. And I don't know, like, Landis, am I getting a little wistful for the. I. I will say, having done this for 20 years, the situation that Ohio State was in, where they were the overdog in their backyard and an underdog nationally, was a really fun spot to cover. Right. And, like, it could be frustrating from fans when, like, I remember the glory days where you were losing to Florida and LSU in national title games. Don't you pine for those days? And then people want to punch me in the neck. So, like, that's not what I mean. But you could go out into the world and be like, we're big, bad Ohio State, but yet, like, we're not. Like. Like, those guys are, like, you know, scheming to do something, and now it's just like, they paid 15.3 million. And, Bill, isn't everybody looking at Ohio State like this and being like, they're the big bad bully on the block. They're paying Matt Patricia Practically $4 million a year. There's no underdog sniff that can be left because there's nothing that Bama or Georgia or Texas can do that Ohio State isn't already not just matching, but beating.
- [12:44]
D
Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, I don't think you could apply the underdog tag to Ohio State now. You know, they might encounter a game where they are the, the betting underdog. But like as an entity, they have just about everything you would want if you're trying to compete for championships. And they're the envy of 97 of the sport. Probably, maybe, maybe even more than that. So, yeah, I guess in that way this, this puts a little bit of. There's always kind of been a bullseye on Ohio State, but I think maybe more of one now. It certainly in my opinion, like eliminates a lot of the excuses. Like you're not, yeah. You're not out resourced in any regard. In, in a time where college football is like kind of all about resources, you are, you are saying to the world, we, we have, we have the goods, we have it, we have it better than anybody if we're going to spend this amount of money. So yeah, I think it, it makes one of the more pressure packed sort of jobs in college football all the more so. When you're doing stuff like this.
- [13:44]
A
I can feel it. I'm, I'm pre pining for being like, well, Ohio State lost, but because they have Corey Dennis and Parker Fleming on staff, what are you going to do? You know, and it's like those, those days are gone. Everybody's making a million bucks. They got the best you could have. All right, let's talk ball. Joe, you want to talk some ball? We were out at practice. What? Got to watch it for like an hour on Tuesday morning. Joey Kaufman will start with you from the Columbus Dispatch. Who's an offensive guy that either like caught your eye when you were watching Tuesday, the way Ryan Day talked about him. Just like someone you're thinking about who's an offensive name coming off a day one of spring.
- [14:18]
C
I hope you don't mind me giving two names, but I think they, they go together. Kyle Parker and Devin McEwen from UTSA. Ryan Day mentioned that they were both pros and they just look filled out for for two guys who come in certainly experience transfers quick and they're, they played on the outside at times in practice, which was notable because neither of them are 6, 3 and long like they typically had on the outside. And maybe with the new wide receivers coach, they're more open to playing some smaller guys outside and also if they are continued to show to be fluid quick guys there. What does that mean for Chris Henry Jr. So just the fact that they look like immediate contributors, which is what you would expect for bringing in upperclassmen transfers is just, I think something that I took stock of.
- [15:20]
A
Yeah, it is it not sort of just fascinating to watch how Cortez Hankton is just going to go about running this room. Does he want to rotate guys? Is he open to different body types in different spots? Does he value, you know, experience, explosion versus hands, or a youth versus veteran like Sam? Like what we. We have such a handle on, like, what Brian Hartline was and what he wanted. And this is kind of like we don't. We don't know what Cortez Hankton is going to do. And to Joey's point, like that those guys coming in and playing some on the outside, like we're gathering information every time we get to see the receivers.
- [15:59]
B
Yeah, well, first of all, I'm glad I picked a backup answer because Joey picked my two guys as well. And I, I did. I did find it interesting. Like you said, Parker and McEwen were. Were on the outside. And, you know, I think one of the biggest things that, you know, the Buckeye beat has been curious to see heading into, you know, spring camp is who's going to be that number two receiver next to Jeremiah Smith? I mean, we know the number one is obviously locked down with him, and then the slot will, will be Brandon Innis, but who's going to be step up as that number two guy? Will it be, you know, McEwen or Parker? Will it be, you know, the young freshman Chris Henry Jr. And are we going to see, you know, maybe the second coming of a Jerem Smith? And if, if, if that happens. But, you know, overall, I, I think that we might see a little bit more rotation than we have in the past. As you know, you don't have an Ameca Buka, you don't have a Carnell Tate this year, a true number two guy alongside Jeremiah Smith. So I'm curious to see how that position group ends up shaking out.
- [17:04]
A
All right, Landis, who's your guy?
- [17:07]
D
I'll go off the board a little bit. I'll say Nate Roberts, he. And we got to watch one period, basically of offense versus defense, and it was. It was like a half field, seven on seven, red zone. So there was. There were only like nine guys on the field because you're using half a field at a time. But it felt like a lot of it was centered on the tight ends and, and throwing the ball their way. And. And one of those reps, Nate Roberts ran a. Ran a route against Eli Lee, who I, as I say this, I understand he's probably like Ohio State's seventh best linebacker, but it was a heck of a route, like He. He. He faked inside, sort of got Eli Lee to, like, spin his head around, and then like, very quickly redirected and went around him on the outside and caught a touchdown pass from Julian, saying. And. And I just don't really know anything about Nate Roberts as a route running tight end. He played 160 snaps last year, and he ran a route 20 times. Like, they just. They did not use him that way. And when he was running routes, he was kind of running them out of the backfield into the flat, and that was sort of it. And I don't think Ohio State needs whoever it's number one tight end is this year to be like, a prolific pass catcher, but they got to be able to do a little something in that area. And. And I don't know who among that group might emerge there. I do think it's kind of wide open and to see in a very sort of, like, brief moment, Nate Roberts break off. What was like, kind of a nasty route I thought was interesting. So it was just something like, I'll stick in my back pocket and. And try to watch a little more of. As we see more of spring. I realized, like, it's not. That's by far or not even close to being sort of the sexiest name out there in terms of the offense, but it definitely caught my eye when we were watching practice.
- [18:48]
A
Sexy to you, though. Sexy to you, Bill.
- [18:50]
D
That's right.
- [18:50]
A
Come on.
- [18:51]
D
That's right.
- [18:51]
A
That's right. And sexy to Keenan Bailey, right?
- [18:55]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [18:58]
A
So I'm. I actually gonna need a little help
- [18:59]
D
with this because Bill and I. Julian Sayan.
- [19:03]
A
So, yeah. Julian, can I. Now you're. Can I. Can I ask a question? I. Not good at my job. Did Julian sand have a mustache on Tuesday or no?
- [19:15]
D
Yeah, he did.
- [19:16]
A
Is this official? Like, is this a beat consensus? I was not really paying attention to the offense. I took a photo. I couldn't tell if it was a shadow. I couldn't tell if it was a little growth there. Sam, do you think Julian Satan had a mustache?
- [19:33]
B
I. I can't. I can't say that. That I caught if. If he had a mustache or not, but I did catch, you know, how. Just how big Sam Greer was. And I know I didn't say my guy earlier, but that. That was. That would kind of be my pick. A little bit of an unorthodox one there. But, you know, I walk in and to the Woody on. On Tuesday, and, you know, I see Austin Saravo, big, big number 67 there, you know, big guy himself six, five, I think 325. And then, you know, right next to him is even bigger, number 77, you know, and Sam Greer is a freshman coming in and he just is towering over Austin Seravo at 6, 7, 3, 30. And you know, he's significantly better bigger than what I thought he was going to be in, you know, and even in drills this guy's feet are just lightning quick for a freshman and he's got a lot of power in the back of his legs and which is so promising for a guy guy at his size and you know, coming in as a near five star lineman, just barely outside the top 50. He just doesn't look like a freshman. And while he might not start behind Sarah Veld and in Philip Daniels this year, you know, he's a guy that, you know, has been talked about like the left tackle for the future for Ohio State. So you know, I just could not believe how, just how big he was as a presence. I mean we thought Nick McLarty was tall last year. I mean this guy is just massive. And so I'm very curious to see, you know, if he pans out the way Ohio State and Tyler Bowen wants him to.
- [21:04]
A
So first of all, it's a very interesting answer. I'm just looking at my roster sheet here that Ohio State gave us 6, 7 for Sam Greer listed at tallest guy in the roster 335. Sam Greer listed at second heaviest guy behind defensive tackle Jameer Perez and he's a freshman. So that's not. How often is it that the tallest guy and the second heaviest guy on the team is 18. That's interesting.
- [21:31]
D
Not since the one Jones was here.
- [21:33]
A
Yeah, Jones. Oh, is that where we're going? Are you willing? Yeah. No. Okay. Sam Greer is the, the new version of Duan Jones. I like that. We should do that. We can work with that also. So that was a good answer by Sam and a very nifty pivot away from being bogged down in the controversy over does Julian Stan have a mustache? Sam is like, I want no part of this. Joey, are you checking in on this? Do you think Julian sand has a mustache?
- [22:00]
C
I didn't really get a good look at it, but Arthur's. Arthur Smith's mustache is missing.
- [22:06]
D
Oh, he stole it. Julian stole Arthur. Arthur Smith is Mr. Potato Head. His pops have bad boy off,
- [22:16]
C
puts it on.
- [22:17]
A
It's like everybody was so fired up when Matt Patricia gave Kaden McDonald a hug last year. Arthur Smith gave Julian saying a mustache. How about that? So I, I thought I was like, maybe I missed something. Does Julian saying have a mustache? Landis is like, definitively he has a mustache. Landis, I think you're breaking this news. Everybody else is a little uncertain. You're like, he's got him.
- [22:39]
D
Somebody. Somebody had a picture that was like a close up of Julian and you could see it's like a. It's like a chalamet mustache, right? A little. It's not. It's not fully. It's not fully formed. He's not Thompson. But let's say it's like. It's like a first mustache. You know what a first mustache looks like?
- [22:57]
A
Yeah.
- [22:58]
D
Yeah.
- [22:59]
A
Oh, is it a Marty supreme mustache? Oh, no. Oh, no. Okay. Well, I know what I'm asking Julian saying about on Thursday. So I didn't really watch this because I was watching defense and Bill is watching offense. And I don't know if people know this. We work together. What did, what did Turbo Rogers do? Did he. And. And the thing that I thought was interesting was Ryan Day was like, running backs, you know, I don't know what we're going to do. Ryan Day is kind of all freaked out because Bo Jackson and Isaiah west are hurt. But then, like. And there's so much talk about Legend Bay and we know Jacoby Jackson's coming up from Florida, but like, there's just. You can feel Ryan Day's uncertainty about the running back situation. As it stands, we know Bo and Isaiah will be back for the fall. Did anyone get eyes on Turbo Rogers? Anything like, he's a freshman last year is kind of hurt. Actually a higher rated recruit than Bo Jackson and Isaiah west and Sam, anybody? Does he. Anything popping there? Anything to be interested in?
- [23:55]
B
I did get some eyes on him. I'm not gonna lie. I. I feel like the name Turbo might be a little deceptive because, you know, I. He was directly behind Legend Bay and a couple running back drills there. And Bay just looks quicker overall. A faster burst, quicker on his feet. There was one time, I believe Carlos Lachlan actually grabbed Bay after a drill and came up and said something to him and then kind of like shoved him off there. Not really sure what happened there. But overall I felt that, you know, Legend Bay just. It. He seemed like he was the one that maybe was deserving of the Turbo nickname over, you know, Isaiah Rogers.
- [24:35]
A
Okay.
- [24:37]
D
He looked like Mayan Williams.
- [24:39]
A
Oh,
- [24:42]
D
he's like five, eight and almost 200 pounds.
- [24:45]
A
Okay.
- [24:46]
C
Uniform.
- [24:48]
A
Okay. Well, maybe there'll be a nickname theft as well as a mustache theft if Legend Bay comes in A Legend Bay is like, I'm Turbo Bay now. Like, my name is Legend. My nickname is Turbo. I'm the Legend. Turbo Bay. And then we. Turbo Rogers. Like, what am I gonna do? Okay, we'll keep our eye on that. Bill Landis, we'll go with you. Same question. Caught your eye. Defensive side of the ball. I was watching defense. You were watching offense. But I know who you're gonna say, because here's the thing. I'm not gonna say what I said. I said like, I'm gonna say, I think, I think this guy looked good. And, and you were like, the guy's probably a special teams player. And I was like, I'm trying to be a ball knower here and pick guys out. And then you were like, I don't know if you saw this guy, but that's what it looks like.
- [25:30]
D
Yeah, that guy is Sincere Johnson. So walked in the first day of spring practice and I didn't realize Arvel Reese was. It's ridiculous like that. Glenville's got a linebacker factory that's just churning out guys who are 6, 3, 230 pounds with like, he's like standing straight up and his hands are touching the floor. Like, that's how long his arms are. It's ridiculous. He moves really well. In that same red zone passing period that I was talking about earlier, he and Christian Allegro, the transfer of Wisconsin. Wisconsin both made really nice sort of like diving pass breakups. I don't know what it's going to look like for Sincere this year. I. I think Ohio State is. Is almost like practically set, I think at linebacker with Peyton Pearson and Christian Allegro starting and then Riley Pettigohn and TJ Alford kind of working in around those guys. So. So I don't know what the snaps could look like for any freshman in that room, but Sincere Johnson is what they look like. Like, absolutely. I, I think he could play up on the line of scrimmage not all that differently from Arvell's as a freshman. I think Sincere will play a ton on special teams. And James Laurinaitis has a heck of a thing going in that linebacker room. Just like routinely bringing in aliens to play that position in a way that, like, I just don't know that we've. I've certainly have not seen in my time covering Ohio. So, like, here and there there's a guy, but. But James, like, is bringing in a couple of them every year because they were like, Braxton Rembert, one of the other freshman linebacker, he's like 8ft tall. He's super skinny. He's super skinny. But my goodness, is that guy tall for a linebacker? He should be playing with Jake Diebler, I think, in the basketball team. So it's a really, really good looking linebacker room. But to me, Sincere Johnson was the guy who stood out immediately.
- [27:21]
A
Yeah, I, I think it's interesting. I, I talked about Jordan Thomas a lot on the show that we did on Tuesday. Just like, there's a bunch of younger guys in that cornerback room that I find that are interesting. But I will say, like, it is funny that you, that you bring up Braxton Rembert, who's listed at 65195. Like that is. That is really skinny, as you said. It's just funny to think about skinny guys. Sincere Johnson is228. He's 33 pounds heavier than Braxton Rembert. I thought Kerry Wilder looked really skinny, kind of too. Like, it's just like some of these guys that like. But that's a good way to go about it, right? You're long and you're leaning and, and they can, they'll put weight on you, right? They'll get you the training table. They'll get you in the weight room. But I did so, like, I, I'll say Kerry Wilder and Braxton, remember, just like body type. And it's like, man, when those guys fill out, it's has a chance to really be interesting. And so those were two guys that caught my eye. Sam, who's your guy on defense?
- [28:17]
B
I was gonna go with Sincere Johnson. I mean, just like Bill said, he's a guy that came in six three over 220. You know, he just doesn't look like a freshman. But to give a different answer, I'll go with Jalen McLean. He's got a new number now.
- [28:33]
D
It's
- [28:36]
A
9, 988. Number eight.
- [28:40]
B
He's nine. Correct. And you know, he, he just, he looks like he's processing the game a little bit quicker. You know, he's, he's reading the defense faster. And, you know, I believe he had a nice pass breakup on Kyle Parker there on the seven on Sevens. But like you said, Sincere Johnson is, is. It might be the consensus for the Buckeye beat for who was the most impressive on defense.
- [29:15]
A
So I do think, since we're talking about Sincere here, like, is a freshman linebacker when you have Peyton Pierce, when you have Riley Pettigohn, when you have Christian Allegro, when you have TJ Alfred going to come in and steal playing time, like, no, but I think what we talked a lot about with, with some of the guys that left this offseason. They really just have to have a plan to get guys on the field in really meaningful ways. These five star recruits in year two. And so Riley Pettigohn, who's a little limited in spring, is on that plan right now. But like Sincere Johnson. Bill, like, again, everyone's talking about Sincere Johnson. Don't they have to have a plan that Sincere Johnson is a big part of this defense in 2027. That's what this year is about because, like, what you can't have is Sincere Johnson be on the Arvell Reese path where it's like nothing really as a freshman. Year two, situational role, Year three, he's an All American and he's gone like that. Sincere Johnson, 2027. That's, that's, that's the poster that everyone's going to put the sign in their yard for. That's what he's got to pop.
- [30:18]
D
Yeah, I think so. I think he's got. I think Riley Pettigan might have played like 100 snaps as a true freshman last year. I, I would like to see Ohio State get Sincere a little more than that. Yeah, well, I think it'll be, it'll be tough, right, because they got Riley Pettigon, that is like the fourth linebacker. And right now you'd say like Sincere would be like the fifth linebacker behind Pearson Allegro and Pettajan and T.J. alford. So it's a little more tricky there, I think, to get him on the field. This is like now inviting the conversation about, like, do you rotate more, do you play faster to try to get up by a bigger number earlier in some of these games so you can play your depth a little bit more. But I would like to see him on the field, you know, between 150, 200 snaps, maybe this year, if they can swing it. So that when 2027 rolls around and Allegro is gone and you're looking for a starting point will linebacker to play next to Peyton Pierce. That could be Riley Pettigon, that could be T.J. alford, or it could be Sincere Johnson. And you don't want to look at any of those guys and say, well, they haven't really played that much yet. Right. You want to try to get them as much experience as possible.
- [31:20]
A
Yeah. Okay. Joey, who's your guy also? Sincere Johnson.
- [31:24]
C
I'll go Christian Allegro. His size, I think was noticeable. It's just 6, 4, 2, 40, I think. Clearly a bigger guy maybe than I realized, but still Some of those pass coverage drills they did toward the. The end, in the. In the red zone, had a breakup. And with Riley Pettigon out this spring, I think he's got a real chance to probably position himself well to be the starting linebacker with Peyton Pierce. And I guess on defense, I'm going with another transfer who's experienced and has played a lot of football. But I think this transfer class is interesting because they brought it. They didn't bringing as many transfers last year, but the profile was still not too dissimilar where you had guys like CJ Donaldson, Ethan Oniawa, Max Claire, some of them, like Claire hit. Obviously Oniyawa did not. So you bring in all these experienced guys. Are they guys who are going to start for you and be as impactful as you expect, or are they going to. To be more rotational pieces? And with Petta John being out for spring, something like Allegro feels like could kind of really cement a spot or put himself in a really good spot going in a fall camp.
- [32:34]
A
Yeah, it's. It's interesting. Some of these, like, you know, there's a younger guy here and there's an experience transfer here, and they both have a chance to play, but how is it going to go? Are they going to lean? Are they gonna. Do you want to like, piece it together in a certain way that if, like, if this transfer is playing at this spot, can you play a younger guy here? But like, linebacker is a spot where like. Like a guy like T.J. alford. Right. Who I think people are excited about. He's like, you have Sincere Johnson as a true freshman who's like, oh man, Sincere Johnson's coming. You have Allegro as a transfer. You have Petta John as the same age who got a little more snaps. It seems like like maybe a more. More direct path to the field, like James Laurinaitis Landis, like, figuring out TJ Alfred's role this year because again, we know how fans are going to feel if he doesn't play that much. Then he decides to go somewhere else next year. And he's like, like some of these offseason transfers from this past year, people are going to be frustrated. But there's only so many snaps. Like, like coaches got like position coaches have a lot to figure out with this stuff. And I think it's having gone through how that, you know, the roster change over this year, it just feels like more amped up to me of like, you've got to figure out your snap count in your room.
- [33:44]
D
Yeah. I think you gotta figure out Some packages, too. And it was interesting to me just looking at some of the snap counts from last season. Like, TJ Alford did not play a ton, but what he did play, he was pass rushing a lot. So maybe that. Is, that. Is that a spot for him to get on the field now. Now. But then you're putting him in, like, the Quay Russo conversation too. Right? Like.
- [34:02]
A
And.
- [34:02]
D
And you obviously have Kenyatta Jackson's eye on Grady at defensive end, so I think, you know, you're setting up a situation where maybe Ohio is going to play more odd front. And it played some last year, but I think it could play even more this year because of what it has at linebacker.
- [34:15]
A
And.
- [34:15]
D
And maybe you can have some sort of streamlined roles for guys like Alfred and Pettajan to make sure they're getting on the field even if they're not starting.
- [34:23]
C
Yeah, we mentioned a few linebackers. I do wonder if there's a world where High State would play more packages with three linebackers.
- [34:31]
D
Yep.
- [34:34]
A
It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, we see it against 12 personnel. If they feel like they have guys out there who can cover a little bit, which again, we're talking about like, Allegro and Johnson and guys like making coverage plays because like, like part of it is like, well, who are you taking off the field and how you. It's like, well, if they take Earl Little off the field for a play, like a package or a series or situations like the world's not gonna end, like, they. Earl Little is a one and done guy and done guy here. He knows how to play football. But you can get into three linebackers. That's interesting, Joey. And again, it's situational, it's schematic, but also, is it snap count oriented that maybe there's a time we're like, well, we probably could keep the nickel on, but you know what? We could use the snaps for the linebackers, and we think we can cover it. Let's get those guys out there. I'm just. I'm very curious if they lean that way to any larger degree this year of getting some of the young guys on the field. Let's move to Julian Sand. Question number four is Ryan Day said that Julian San's legs are the X factor for him this year. On a scale of 1 to 100, how big of a deal was it that that Day said that about saying scrambling on the first day of spring practice? And again, context here, one is like, no big deal at all. 100 is he grew a mustache, which is like, again, the story of the spring so far. So where does Scrambling fit in there? I'm, I have a 67. And I will say, Bill, I'm a little influenced by something you said that like, this is like Day has said stuff like this before, but I still find it interesting that he brought it up on day one because it, that clearly it reflects them that they've been talking about that with Julian saying, right. And then, and I'm, then I'm going to be curious, like, how do they rep that in practice? Like, of course they're not going to have him running around like a maniac, but when they go live, like, are they gonna be telling him to look for that more? They're not gonna, I don't think they'll take like the red jersey off and, and make him live and have guys hitting him and stuff. But I'm just curious, like, how they'll work on that if they really want him to do that. But I thought it was, if Day's saying it to us, then it means he's been saying it to saying. And so I have it at a 67. Sam Cipriani, 1 to 100. How big of a deal is it Legs for Julian Sand?
- [36:46]
B
Well, first of all, I, I love how much you're talking about the Julian sand mustache. You're cracking me up over here. But second, I, I, my number was very similar to yours. I actually had a lot lower number at first, but I also was talking to someone and was influenced as well. And I'd give 65 for my answer. I mean, I, I would say it's significant. I mean, it was already a big talking point at the end of last season. I know Julian struggled to both climb and escape the pocket and, you know, didn't really take his chances. You know, when he had green grass ahead of him and against two of the best defensive lines in the country, against Indian and Miami, he particularly struggled. So I wouldn't say this is an exactly earth shattering thing for Coach Day to say so, which is why I kind of teetered from below that 70 line there. But I do, like I said, think it's significant, especially with how Ohio State's treated its quarterbacks over Ryan Day's tenure. Look at the last, you know, four quarterbacks he's had. C.J. stroud, Commercord. I'm skipping over Will Howard because he's a little bit more of a runner. And then, then you got Julian saying, and Day a quarterback himself. You know, when he was in his playing days, you know, he's always been One to advise his. His quarterbacks to protect themselves and run only when necessary. I mean, C.J. stroud was probably the biggest proponent of that. And I think he even took a lot of heat, especially, you know, in Ohio State's Playo 2022, for not scrambling when he should have been. While I'm sure Ryan Day isn't encouraging Julian to take unnecessary hits for an extra yard, I do think it's notable, the fact that he seems to be shifting his perspective and showing more of a. An openness for saying to leave the pocket and extend plays with his legs.
- [38:30]
A
Joey, what's your number?
- [38:33]
C
37. I'm. I just not sure if it's much more than lip service. And I'm also not sure when he use his legs more, does that mean as somebody who's gonna scramble like Justin Fields or rerun as much as Will Howard, or does he want him to use his legs when plays break down in the pocket to move and move with the rush and sort of buy time and extend plays that way? And I think you just look at Ryan Day's history with the quarterback position. They've really never been a position where they've asked the quarterback to run a ton. CJ Stroud's second year where people did want him to run more, hit 47 rush attempts, and it was a little. It was more than his first season, which was 32. Will Howard and Fields had years. They ran over a hundred times. And these are. Including their. I think those include sack numbers as well. So it's a little skewed, but they just never had the quarterback do all that much running wise. So I think it's notable. And I think it's notable that certainly Dave brought it up unprompted. He was not asked directly. Hey, gonna run. Julian saying more. And he's responding.
- [39:47]
D
Sure.
- [39:47]
C
Yeah. He brought it up when he was talking about Julian saying. On the whole, so I think it's notable. I just am not expecting a whole lot.
- [39:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you. We have to be able to do this, like, when do they mean it and when do they not? And so I think, like, I'm. I'm. I don't know that. That Sam and I are wrong with our higher numbers, but I think it's a good point. Joey Landis, who are you closer to?
- [40:14]
D
I'm probably closest with you, but I'll actually go a little higher than everybody. I'll say like 73. Like, I. I think it matters that Ryan Day said it because it is, I think, indicative of conversations that have been ongoing in the off season with Jul. What they need from him in terms of taking the next steps. As for what it looks like, I, I do sort of agree with Joey, like he's not going to start, you know, running inside zone as the quarterback. He's. I don't think there's going to be a lot of designed quarterback run in Ohio State's offense. There might be some, maybe a little more because doing it five times, I mean they're doing it a little more, but I think it's more about scrambling, it's more about play extension. Some of it is stuff that Julian saying has showed us before. Like the, the Penn State game, I think is a good example of that. The was game, he was outside the pocket a little bit making throws and then kind of from the UCLA game on, we just didn't see a bunch of that from him. I don't know, it's because he got. Got hurt or got rattled or what. But like they need him to shake off whatever it was that kept him from doing it, especially in the postseason. I do think some of it could be kind of baked into the cake a little bit in terms of the office because I think they're going to be under center more, have a play action boots and that kind of stuff that'll like, like by necessity, Julian's gonna have to be throwing on the move. I think he's comfortable with doing that. I think it's a strength of his. So I don't know. I don't know. That Ryan Day saying that is asking Julian saying to be something that is like tremendously outside of his capabilities. If we were asking him to be a battering ram, that'd be a different conversation. But I don't think that's what we're talking about. So I think it was pretty meaningful. And, and I do think we'll see him use his legs a little more.
- [41:53]
A
In 20, 26 PFF scramble attempts last year, they have Julian saying with 11, just like as like a point of information. Fernando Mendoza had 34, right. Like, and he's not exactly like a crazy runner. Carson Beck had 32, Arch Manning had 32. Like, and that they're not the top. Like Demond Williams had 65. No one thinks Julian saying Damon Williams, Gunner Stockton had 53. But it's just like can you creep a little bit maybe from 11? What if he's in the mid-20s, right? It's like one more per game. But that maybe puts a fear in a defense. It's a. It's a. It's a scramble on third and six that picks up a first down and keeps a drive going. Like, what if he wants. If he goes from 11 to 22? Like, that could be like 11 huge plays. That could be like 11. Like that. That creates more touchdown drives or whatever. So, like, I'm, I'm. I'm very curious. I think, Joey, you are right to like, pull us back from the edge of like, here we go. It's the Julian sand run around show. Like, it's not that, but like, this. The strategy of it, I'm very curious about. All right, question.
- [43:02]
D
Just real quick, before you move on. Just like. And I realized, like, this is not the exact same thing and it's not nearly the same thing. And the level of competition matters. Julian saying in high school rushed for 600 yards and nine touchdowns. It's not like he was.
- [43:14]
A
Yes.
- [43:15]
D
A statue in high school. And I, I said this right. There's. There is more in there and it's like on him to tap into it more than anything else. But I, I really do think, like, some of the stuff we're talking about is not a big ask of him.
- [43:31]
C
I did want to say, I. I wonder too, in this conversation how much volume matters versus situation. Because even if he doesn't run a great deal more, but if it's a Big Ten title game and you're in the red zone and you're in the low red zone, maybe. Maybe it would be helpful to have a quarterback who sort of can give you an extra player in the running game, because that was a big reason why they lost Indiana last year. I think just as the postseason, it might matter more. I mean, it's a big reason why Ohio State came so close to being Georgia in 22. CG Stroud showed a willingness to run a little more, and it got him close. So that's probably another way to look at it too.
- [44:10]
D
Yep.
- [44:12]
A
Fernando Mendoza won the Heisman, won the national championship, and is going to be the number one pick in the draft because of how he throws the ball. But his defining play as the quarterback of the Indiana Hoosiers is a run. And it wasn't a scramble, it was a called run. But I mean, like, that's one of those things, Joey, that you're talking about, like, situational red zone, third down, fourth down, game on the line, great opponent. We need you, Julian. Like, like, is that. Can he do it? Is he asked to do it? Can he figure it out on the move to. To. To apply it when need be? As Everybody knows this show is about me. And so this question, question number five, which we'll start with Sam, is also about me because I took a picture and I took this photo, and this is a photo of Jeremiah Smith at practice. And I gotta say, it's a great photo, and a robot helped me cut it out. If you're watching on a podcast instead of if you're listening to podcast watching on YouTube, I put a cutout on the screen. It's. It's Jeremiah Smith with his hands on his hips. He just looks. Doesn't he look long and lean and muscular at the same time? Like, how good. Listen, Jeremiah Smith did most of the work here to look this way, but also, how good is this photo? Come on. Come on, guys. How good is this photo?
- [45:28]
D
It's pretty great.
- [45:29]
B
He's looking Jack there.
- [45:30]
D
Yeah, it's like a modeling shot. Yeah.
- [45:32]
A
Yeah. So I tweeted this photo, and I'm. It's like getting a gazillion responses on Twitter because people are just like, they know Jeremiah Smith is good. I just said, Jeremiah Smith. He's back. And it's getting like, a lot of, like, holy moly. Like, this guy's, like, number one pick in the draft. He's Julio Jones, like, all this stuff. And so I'm just gonna leave this here because it's such a good photo. And I want to thank my older daughter for helping me cut it out, because there's kind of like. There's like, a guy behind him. And so part of that guy's body was in the cutout. The robot did part of the cutout, but then my daughter had to erase part of the other guy who was behind him. But here's the point. Jeremiah Smith. I didn't really watch him at practice. Nobody really asked about him. And, Sam, we'll start with you. How should we be thinking about Jeremiah Smith this season? Because this is what happened for me. I went to the first day of Ohio State spring football practice and completely ignored Jeremiah Smith. And I put one photo of him on the Twitter machine, and everybody went bonkers. And I was like, oh, yeah, he's good. People care about him. What am I doing? Why am I so terrible at my job? I should have been watching him. But, Sam, it's. It's, like, advice for all of us. This guy is on the team. We cover. So what does it mean about how we should cover or think about Jeremiah Smith in 2026? What will be his final years in Ohio State? Buckeye.
- [47:08]
B
I mean, like, you, I. I really didn't see much from him in, in practice on Tuesday and I think all I saw is maybe him do two punt returns but caught them both. So who would have thought? But maybe if he has, I think we should be thinking about him in the likes if he has another year similar, if not better than his previous two seasons. You know, he's certainly in the conversation for one of the best collegiate receivers of all time, especially for one that's, that's only going to play three years, you know, because I mean as we all know, there's, there's almost zero chance Jeremiah Smith is staying for a fourth year here at Ohio State. I mean this is a guy that came in as a true freshman and already had sky high expectations. And as you know, the number one overall recruit in this class and delivered from day one, first ever true freshman, Iron Buckeye and then back to back a thousand yard receiving seasons. And this is no slight on a Mecca Buka or Carnell Tate, but he had two first round draft picks and well, Cornelte hasn't yet and, but will likely be in the top 10. You know, he outperformed both of these guys and that's again no slight on them. But that's just a testament to just how great and special Jeremiah Smith is as a receiving talent. And I did the math and if he continues so I took the average of the two his two seasons in college, if you multiply that by four, he'd be second all time in the NCAA receiving yards list. And if he does it just for three years, he's nearly cracking the top 25. So it's, he's just a special talent and I mean he's been an absolute joy to watch throughout my time covering the team.
- [48:54]
A
Joe, you have any thoughts on Jeremiah Smith?
- [48:57]
C
I think we should think about him like LeBron James. It's a comparison Brady Quinn made about Jeremiah when he first got to Ohio State. 18 year old, just generational talent and then goes on to have a 20 year run in the NBA. And it's just been such a mainstay for two decades in that league and you can't take it for granted. You should appreciate it. And three years in college is obviously not the length of 20 years in the NBA, but in college football years, three years is quite a while. And so I think to have somebody this good, this young be such a consistent force for Ohio State for the length of his career, didn't transfer anywhere, played from the jump and it's been really good and is arguably their best receiver ever in school history and maybe one of the best players in school history. I think it just should not be overlooked or underappreciated. Just try to enjoy it or try to write something that sort of encapsulates how.
- [50:03]
D
Yeah, that's a good.
- [50:06]
A
That's a good name to throw out here, Landis. What do you think here?
- [50:09]
D
Yeah, I think Ryan Day compared Jeremiah Smith to LeBron James at one point.
- [50:16]
A
He.
- [50:16]
D
Like, we're watching Orlando Pace, we're watching Eddie George, we're watching Jack Tatum, right? And in a. In a. A football program that has had hundreds of extraordinary football players, there are a handful who rise above the rest, and this guy is one of them. He's 20 years old. Like, he's, like, just getting started. There's no. I mean, what. I don't know. I think he is destined to be College Football hall of Famer, a Pro Football hall of Famer. He's already a college football national champion. I would be surprised if he's not a Super bowl winner. Like, he is everything that everyone said he was going to be, if not more than that, which is like, a pretty remarkable thing these days because the Internet exists and we throw lofty expectations on everybody, and this kid has lived up to them. So, yeah, it's kind of weird to go to first spring practice and sort of, like, not pay attention to him because you take his greatness for granted, or it's just sort of like an accepted reality. But maybe we should watch a little bit more of. Because part of what makes him great is how he practices, right? How he goes about his business, what he's like in the weight room and. And all of that, I guess, sort of pals in comparison to what he does when he's on the field and the production he's had at Ohio State. But this stuff matters to him, man. He ran over Jalen McLean on the first day of spring practice. I don't know. Like, I didn't see with my own eyes. I saw a video afterwards, and they were doing, like, he just ran through them. They're not wearing pads. It's not a tackle practice. And he's out there going 100 miles an hour because he doesn't know any other way. And on top. And he is. He is that way while being, like, singularly great at the position that he plays as well. Like, it is. It's ridiculous what. What he. What he has been for Ohio State and what he will continue to be. So I don't think people take him for granted, but I cherish what you're watching, he's got one year left, and you're not going to see another like him. You'll see other very good ones. You're not going to see another one like him.
- [52:13]
A
So I just, again, having gone through it, I took them for granted on Tuesday. And I'm just trying to think, like, if somebody had been like, oh, the Cavs had their first practice, how'd LeBron look? And you'd be like, you know what? I was watching Danielle Marshall the whole time. I forgot to check on how LeBron looked. Like, I don't think people were doing that back then. Right. And I have this very. You guys know Tim May covers Ohio State? I can remember, like, early on when I. When I started covering Ohio State, I was talking to Tim and he was talking about something with Chris Carter, and it just like, it hit me and I was like, you covered Chris Carter in college? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, wow, that's awesome. Like, how. That's crazy. How cool is that? And just think of the people, Sam, you're so young. You're gonna be. I'll be dead. Everybody be dead. Don't be like, oh, I got to talk to somebody who covered Jeremiah Smith in college. I'll be calling Sam, I mean, 90 year old Sam, saying like, whatever, 65 years ago, I covered Jeremiah Smith in college, and that's gonna mean something. And so when they call you Sam, you can't say, I don't know what he did. I was watching John Walker and James Smith the whole time. Sorry. So, like, I. This is a. This is not even for the audience. This is for us as journalists watch Jeremiah Smith, whatever he does all year, because of what all you guys already said. And so I, I took it. He was just. It was right when he was doing the pot return drills, and I was like, oh, I need a pic. We need a new picture. Jeremiah Smith. I'll just take this picture. And then. It's just my skill is so great as a photographer that it just turned out into this. Right? But it's a reminder to me like, I didn't remember. And so shame on me, shame on us. Let's not let it happen. Let's appreciate it while it's happening. He's a good football player.
- [54:19]
C
There. There is such a gravitational pull on the Ohio State beat to who is next to emerge. And that's just the way college football works. There's so much churn that you want to identify who is emerging on the roster. I felt like it happened last year where Arvo Reese emerged and he was so good seemingly overnight and as a first year starter that you sort of took Sonny Styles for granted on the other that linebacker package and he's also going to be the probably in the top 10. So it just, it's, it's, it's sort of, it's like natural but good to think about the 10,000 foot view of the roster too.
- [54:56]
A
Yeah. Yeah. Good reminder for everybody, journalism lesson. Write and talk about the good players. Which ones which I well that's the thing is that it's Ohio State's fault. It's not our fault. It's like too many good players. Thanks to you guys for giving us your time, giving us your expertise. Thanks to this audience as always for consuming around the shoe. We did it on Wednesday this week I think we'll get back onto the Monday schedule. We just didn't like want to direct jam in one more around the the shoe before we got to see anything. So it was nice to have you guys come on and talk about what you saw. Sam what are you writing about? Where can the people find you? Where can they find your work?
- [55:31]
B
What do you have popping so Buckeye Sports Bulletin. You can find us on buckeyesports.com Best Domain Name in the, in the world basically. And you can go and get four free issues. All you have to do is call 614-486-2202. You don't have to put in a card or anything. There's no obligation and you can go ahead and get those for free issues in get a taste of what Buckeye Sports Bulletin is all about.
- [55:59]
A
Sam Cipriani look at that. Memorizing the phone number thanks you. Thanks to you for your time. Joey Kaufman where can the folks follow your work? Columbus Dispatch kind of a big deal.
- [56:10]
C
Dispatch.com Sports would love for you to to subscribe and read everything we got. There's certainly other been other news around Ohio State. Sheridan Hendricks, our higher education reporter has been all over Ted Carter's abrupt resignation. So not just Ohio State sports. You'll get the whole other things happening on campus and yeah
- [56:33]
A
we didn't talk about this but I, I did say I have sort of a dark horse candidate for new Ohio State president, this guy Jeremiah Smith. President Smith. Why not? It can't be any worse than what what Ohio State's had. Bill Landis. You can find us Bill and Doug osu.substack.com and we're doing a little sale, right?
- [56:57]
D
We are doing a sale. It's 18 off an annual subscription because the spring game is on April 18, and we are very creative with our promos. If you go to billandduggosu.substack.com spring18, you can find it there. We've also tweeted out the links on our Twitter accounts. You can find it there as well. If you've been thinking about trying us out. We have that going on through the end of spring practice.
- [57:19]
A
All right, so all of us will be back out there on Thursday watching practice, talking to people, writing and talking about the Buckeyes. Listen and and read to Sam. Listen and read, Joey. Find us over on substack. Find us here on this feed. But most of all, ball is back. And enjoy being a fan of the Ohio State Buckeyes for now. Thanks to Sam. Thanks to Joey. On behalf of Bill, I'm Doug, and that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.