← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State Around the Shoe: Grading Arthur Smith; Jaxon Smith-Njigba in OSU history; and more
00:56:44
It's another five Ohio State and college football topics on Around the Shoe as Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by two media guests to discuss the Buckeyes.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug show. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis joined by two interesting members of the Ohio State and college football media every Monday. Bill, we have a returning guest, Andy Anders from eleven Warriors. Andy, thanks for coming back on around the Shoe. We didn't scare you off the first time.
- [00:24]
B
No, not at all. It was a great conversation. I'm happy to be back. I'm enthused to let the masses know of my opinions on on the coordinator hires here.
- [00:34]
A
Letting the masses know. And then a first time guest, Colton Denning, the owner of two Stripes cpd. You also might know him as Dubsco on X. Colton, thanks for your time joining us on around the Shoe.
- [00:52]
C
Thanks for having me. I'm really excited. I'm, I'm excited to see what this comment section looks like. To be, to be quite honest with you, I'm. That's, that's what I'm looking forward to the most. But no, I'm really excited to be on and, and talks to Ohio State. We got a long off season ahead of us so I excited to hear Yalls opinions on everything as well.
- [01:10]
A
So the people here, they're sick of me and Bill, mostly me, Andy, they certainly are familiar with Colton. Like tell people a little bit about two Stripes cpd. Tell people about what you provide on social media. You love Ohio State but you love ball in general. What are they getting into here with you?
- [01:29]
C
Yeah, two Stripes CPD was a website that I started I think back in 2021 just about general college football stuff. If you follow me on Twitter, on Instagram, on two Stripes cpd it's a lot of throwback stuff. During the off season I just put out hits of the year 67 minute video. The the best clean hits in all of college football this season. So you can check that out on YouTube.com Colton Denning so two stripe CPD is just a place for basically all college football fans. Unless you're like you root for Michigan or Nebraska. You know that's really probably not for you. But other than that it's just general college football. And yeah, I'm just a guy who loves ball and we were kind of talking beforehand about how I came into my Ohio State fandom and I'll tell, tell it real quick before we get into everything but my mom is from Ohio, went to Ohio State and then moved out to Colorado and so that's where I got my Ohio State fandom from. And a lot of Ohio State fans will address people that don't have Michigan degrees but are Michigan fans is Walmart Wolverines. I'm a big lots Buckeye. I don't know if they got big lots still out in Ohio. That's me.
- [02:35]
A
Yeah. All are welcome here. Man. This is great. If you love ball, if you love and know about Ohio State football, you're welcome here. I we do have to interrupt here real quick though. Bill. You have to leave though. Right. Because I saw when Colton said he put out a 67 minute video of hits of the year, you were like, why am I on this show? I going to watch that on his YouTube channel.
- [02:54]
D
I'm. I'm just watching it now. So if I seem distracted, that's why.
- [02:58]
A
Yeah. All right. So. So a lot of good stuff here. A lot of good conversation. We're obviously going to start with the biggest news around Ohio State and get everybody's opinions on this. We'll start with Colton and that is rating the hire of Arthur Smith as the new Ohio State offensive coordinator. News. The news came out on Saturday night. Colton will start with you. On a scale of 1 to 100, what do you think of this choice for the Buckeyes? One is terrible. 100 is awesome. Arthur Smith to the Buckeyes. What do you think?
- [03:26]
C
I'm gonna go with a solid 83. Just solidly territory. And a lot of this in the conversation for me that pertains to this. This new offensive coordinator hire is what was in the past. And we don't need the malign Brian Hartline or anything here. But when I look at Arthur Smith and you go to his Wikipedia page or wherever you want to see his history, you can see somebody with a history of coordinating offenses who has run offenses at the NFL level. And for as great of a receiver coach as Brian Hartline is, I think we saw this year that just at least as of right now, maybe it'll change as his career progresses. He just doesn't really seem to have a feel of the duties of actually calling an offense and getting into the rhythm of calling an offense. And whatever you want to say about Arthur Smith's time in the NFL, he at least has the history of calling an offense and it's an outside voice, which I think Ohio State and that offense desperately needs right now. So I think Ryan Day is kind of putting it on the table here, going to somewhere outside and something that might be a little polarizing. But we also saw that last offseason with Matt Patricia. That worked out well. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt of on this one too, and say about an 83, 84, a solid B.
- [04:40]
A
And I think that's a good point. Colton. It's like it's a little. I think he earned some benefit of the doubt with the way that Patricia hire worked out.
- [04:47]
C
Right.
- [04:48]
A
It doesn't mean he gets 100 across the boards just because he's Ryan Day and he made a hire. But I think it does affect, I think for a lot of fans how you view this. Andy Anders, what's your grade for the Arthur Smith hire?
- [04:58]
B
Yeah, I'm right around Colton. I have an 80 and to me there's a certain baseline that it reaches immediately just in the fact that it's not an internal promotion and it's a guy with experience like Colton brought up. I mean, six years calling plays at the NFL level, you can have your reservations about his time with the Steelers. Obviously Pittsburgh's offense the last couple years wasn't that great. But to me, I think there's a schematic difference. There's a big schematic delta between what you're going to see from Big Ten defenses and what they can throw at you versus what you're going to see from NFL defenses, what they can throw at you. I like the marriage of scheme because Arthur Smith has a lot of creative run game stuff from under center gap scheme stuff, multi tight end packages, which Ryan Day has incorporated more into his offense here recently. And I know not every Ohio State fan is excited about that, but I think if it's a way to get the ground game going better fashion, that's warranted. And the last note I'll make is experienced coordinators, good coordinators, know how to build a scheme around their talent and not try and force their talent into a scheme. And I think that's where the experience of Arthur Smith even having a lot of that background and run heavy multi tight end schemes, he's going to be able to coordinate a spread just fine too. And the marriage of his run game concepts with Ryan Day's passing game seems like a pretty good fit to me.
- [06:24]
D
Yeah.
- [06:25]
A
Yeah. I think it's well said, Bill Landis. We had, we did talk about this. If anyone didn't watch our show, we went live on Saturday night soon after the hires. So we've expressed our views on this. But which, what's your actual number?
- [06:35]
D
I'm like a. I'll go 88, I think so. So I, I think you almost get a B by default, right. For kind of all the things that have already been laid out. You just got a Guy who, who's done the job before. And I think because of that you're almost in B territory. But, but I'll go more like B plus and 88 because I do think there are things Arthur Smith brings to the table that, that can help this offense and some of the ways it needs to be helped. Like, I, I think, I don't know that I had like a tremendous problem with Ohio State's run scheme this past season, but definitely the execution left something to be lacking. And I don't know if kind of like the marriage between run and pass was always there in the way that.
- [07:12]
A
It needed to be.
- [07:13]
D
And I think Arthur Smith, if you look at his background with play action, pass game especially, I think there's a lot to be gained there by bringing him, bringing in somebody with his expertise. I think Julian saying is a guy that has played under center going back to high school. I think you could see an uptick in that. And Julian can thrive in there. Get him moving, get him out of the pocket. Don't let him stand back there. As a guy who's not super elusive. Like I, you know, go back to the Miami game, I thought it was kind of crazy. They didn't move the pocket all that much in that game. And I think Arthur Smith is going to bring some of that to the table. I agree with what Andy said about all the run game stuff. So, you know, is his NFL resume sparkling? No, not necessarily, but. But I do think, and Matt Patricia kind of opened my eyes to this too. I just think that there is a level of expertise that is required to coach day to day in the NFL that when you come down to the college level, it can be, I think it can be like kind of playing on easy mode sometimes for, for some of those guys. And I wonder if some of that might, might come to come to light for Arthur Smith too. So he's just checking a lot of boxes for me. So. Yeah, 88 for me.
- [08:15]
C
So you guys don't have to be. Yeah. Excuse me if I could jump in. He doesn't have to be babysat either. And that's kind of to your, to your point, Bill. That's something we talked about a lot throughout. I think all of Ohio State fandom is some of these kind of more internal, you know, staff members where it's like day is not only the head coach, but he's also still kind of the quarter working with the quarterbacks and also designing things where with Chip Kelly he could just leave and be. Let him do his thing and So I think there was probably a lot of that behind the scenes this year of him just being involved in everything. And so no matter what the, the scheme is, no matter what kind of the different changes, if wide receiver you was out in 14 personnel, you is in. I don't know if I'm a huge fan of that, but at least you know that Ryan Day isn't gonna have to be babysitting Arthur Smith. At least you know, in an ideal world that he can kind of trust him to just do his thing and he can be the head coach instead of having his hand in every little single thing offensively.
- [09:13]
D
Yeah. And I, I will say, like, I, I understand the frustration with the multi tight end stuff, especially when you're watching a game and you see Bender Christian come on the field and Carnell Tate come off the field. But if, if, if Ohio State, and clearly it wants to like, does want to be more of like a bigger personnel team. It's not like that is flawed logic. You just have to make sure you're good at it.
- [09:33]
B
Right.
- [09:33]
D
And they just weren't as good at it last year as, as they thought they were. But I think bringing in a guy like Arthur Smith who's like kind of an Expert in, in 12 and 13 personnel should make that stuff better. Now, like, I, I don't think they're going to be like a 6012 personnel team or anything like that. But, but ideally he is enhancing an area of your game that you clearly want to be a big part of your plan.
- [09:56]
A
And to your point, Colton, like, there's the effect that Arthur Smith will have on the offense. There's the effect that Arthur Smith will have on Ryan Day. And it seems like you're saying like he might just. Having this type of guy that you can trust helps make Ryan Day a better head coach probably.
- [10:10]
C
And, and you have that now on both sides, offensively and defensively, where you have two guys who you presume that he trusts who can just do their thing and they can be more of. I, you know, it's so cliche, but what everybody's talked about is, you know, we want you to be the CEO where you worry about recruiting, you worry about nil, and you worry about game management. I think we, we might need to get a dedicated NFL special teams guy in here now. But other than that, like, you know, you, you have these two sides of the ball where you can trust that these guys know what they're doing at least and they can solely focus on being a head coach and everything that comes with that.
- [10:50]
A
And there's, you know, we always talk about this, everybody talks about this. There's the, the science of play calling. There's the art of play calling.
- [10:55]
B
Right.
- [10:55]
A
There's the scheme, there's what you want to do and then there's how you pair things together, the feel you have for the game. And Andy, I just think like it's impossible for Brian Hartline to be as good at the art as a first year play caller as Ryan Day was, as Chip Kelly was, as someone like Arthur Smith is. And I think you, I would expect you'll just maybe feel that in the offense a little bit. Just that like vibe and like how you see set things up and it's not just about what the play calls are, but the sequencing and how you go about it.
- [11:23]
B
Yeah, the art of play calling with Arthur Smith. Yeah, I, I, to me, I totally agree with that point. It's very much a fuel thing. You gain it over time when it comes to play calling and knowing offenses. And I also think too the receiver development wasn't at the same time level that it was in the past for Ohio State. And you could kind of tell that Brian Hartline was being pulled in multiple directions. Like obviously Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, great first round draft picks, etc. But the depth of that room didn't seem to be there at times. I mean, you had David Adolf playing the key role at certain points of the season when guys were out. So to me I think it was clearer the strain it was putting on Brian Hartline's time and on Ryan Day's time to have to babysit again him in that offensive room. To me, getting a guy in that again, like Colton made a great point. You look at what Chip Kelly was able to do for Day and allow him to step back into that CEO role. That's the biggest part of this for me in a lot of ways. Because now Ryan can maybe focus on special teams a little bit. Yeah, focus on the defense when he needs to. It's the same stuff we saw in 2024 where he could really divert his attention wherever it was needed on the team rather than having to really sit and coach up a new play caller in the offensive meeting rooms.
- [12:49]
A
So man, you guys are saying some great stuff about this hire. I'll tell you what, you guys love this hire and you're giving it bees. You're like, I love it. It's changing the face of Ohio State football. It's in the 80s, I'm giving it a 94. What do we want Kyle Shanahan with Wood getting Tiger Ellison, like, what more do you want here? What would be in the 90s? This guy was calling place for the Steelers two weeks ago. You're like, I gotta tell you what, 83. It's like, no, it's in the 90s, Colton. Like, I really, I, I wonder, I don't like, realistically, if, if you're gonna go this way and you're not going to try to find like the next Lincoln Riley and dig a guy out of East Carolina, which just doesn't seem like what Ryan Day was interested in. I don't know if they realistically could have done better. Like, what NFL person that would be available to Ohio State would have been a better hire than this? Is Joe Brady going to be available? Is Todd Monkin going to be available? Doesn't seem like it. So, like, I'm. And, and I do think just like seeing from of our. Some of our substack commenters and stuff, I think there was an initial. There are some people who are Steelers fans who are like, oh, man, this guy uses too many tight ends. But I think people are coming around on it. So I'm at a 94 and I honestly don't know what you guys want.
- [14:01]
C
I think that's fair. But when you, when you let off with me, I feel like your, your comment section was probably like, we got it. We got a 60 coming here. We got a 58. Like, oh, he gave it an 84. That's like an A. That's pretty good grading.
- [14:17]
A
That's true.
- [14:18]
D
Yeah. I also said Matt Patricia was going to be a disaster. So, like, I would have gave that like a three last year. So, like, the fact that I, that I gave this an 88. You gotta pay attention to the curve here.
- [14:29]
C
Yeah.
- [14:30]
B
It's also the curve because it's, you know, it's a 1 to 100 scale. You know, I'm not thinking like ABC personally. I'm thinking like 8 out of 10. You know, that's. That's really good to me.
- [14:40]
A
All right, all right. We're all good. I'm just making sure. And I do, like, I think, I think Ohio State fans, again, there's. It's kind of that initial. I think. I think most people are coming around on this. So we'll go to question two. We actually don't have to spend a ton of time on this. Like, my question is probably inelegantly phrased and what I sent to you guys was what word or phrase would you use to describe what coordinators mean to a good college team. What I'm trying to get at here is like how important is this hire? Like does this like change the face of the program? Is it like, you know what, they can probably find somebody decent in a lot of different places. It's not that big of a deal like how much especially, you know, Bill and I over the years have talked a lot about when you have a coordinator higher, is it same side of the ball as the head coach and his expertise or opposite side of the ball in the head coach. Right. You would think maybe a defensive coordinator higher for Ohio, for Ohio State would matter even more. So anyway, like that's kind of what I'm getting at here. Andy, we'll start with you. If you have a word or phrase to talk about how much coordinators matter, that's great, but I'm just trying to get the vibes on what, what any higher like this really means to a place like Ohio State.
- [15:49]
B
Almost everything. That is my phrase, almost everything. The only reason I include the almost is because if you don't have good players, it doesn't matter how good your scheme is. Right? Like talent acquisition, roster building. That comes probably before a great coordinator hire if you're a head coach. But I'd say it's the next most important thing. After that you can see just look at the recent history of Ohio State. Going back to 2014, you had Tom Herman calling your plays, right? Leads you to a national championship. Great offense. 2015, the play calling situation changes and you fall short of your goals because the offense didn't perform in some big in against Michigan State, right. In a moment it needed to because you didn't have as good a play calling structure. You look between 2024 and 2025 for Ohio State, right? The, this whole situation with Brian Hartline and how it fizzled out at the end of the year, to me it just, it makes a huge difference in terms of putting your players in the best positions to succeed. Football is armored chess. That's one of my favorite ways to describe it to people who are less familiar with it. Write that down. Write that down. It's so the, the scheme and the tactics and the strategy and the. And out foxing the coaching staffs are doing that is again only a step less important to me than the talent and the chess pieces you have. You have to be able to utilize them properly. So that's the phrase I use, almost everything. And you look at any national title winning team, any of the great teams of college football. Look at Indiana this year, great coordinators. Great coordinators is a common theme across all those teams. So that, to me, it's almost everything.
- [17:41]
A
Okay. Okay, Bill, what do you got?
- [17:44]
D
Can I use. I'm going to use some French. You're French, right, Doug?
- [17:47]
A
Yeah, I'm as French as it gets in high school.
- [17:51]
D
Are you familiar with the. With the term mise en place culinary term?
- [17:56]
A
Does that mean go to the bathroom? No. What does it mean?
- [17:58]
D
No, it means everything in its place. And. And it is the. The prep work, the organization that chefs use to allow themselves to work as efficiently as possible to. To as best you can, eliminate the possibility for errors. And I think that this is what good coordinators do for a college football team. Right. And Ryan Day has sort of alluded to this, Right. He said it a lot going into the 2024 season. We have the right guys in the right seats. And I think that was coaches, that was players, like, everything this. And I know, like, they lost two games that year. I understand that. But I think that there was. There was a trust, sort of like in the top to bottom organization of the way that that entire system was set up. Coaches and players and obviously coordinators are a huge part of that. And. And I think, I guess, like, aside from whatever the head coach being a dingleberry, like, like the way that. That really can get out of hand is if you just have a guy in a coordinator spot who's like, not quite ready to handle that. And all of a sudden the head coach has to be. Has different, you know, different things on his plate. The players on that side of the ball are not prepared as well as they need to be. You're not as quick to the answers that you need to find during a game. So I. I think, like organization, I'll use an English word, or I think is the word that. That I. That I come back to when I think about what. What good, good coordinators can do for good college football teams.
- [19:15]
A
Interesting. Okay, I ain't got no French, but I'm going to talk about it anyway. So this is the thing that was really good. Those two answers are really good. I feel better about the question. I've called assistant coaches, middle managers for 20 years, right? That, to me, it's the head coach. That's a culture. You get great players, and that's how you win. And that at a place like Ohio State, I think you should be able to have lots of people who can do a good job as an assistant. You're Ohio State. People want to work here. You should be able to get qualified people. And I think it's on the head coach. If you don't have somebody, there's no excuses for it because there's somebody there who would have taken the job. It would have been good. So that's like one of the Arthur Smith hire. I don't think it has to be perfect, but it's just like get somebody competent. But I will say, but my phrase would be it means more than it used to. And I do think as we flatten out the talent, as we talk constantly about winning in the margins, that I do think this kind of thing. But like you, you, we talked a ton about how much Mike Shanahan and Brian Haynes as the coordinators met the Indiana, but they also aren't stocked with first round talent. They have great players, right? But to me, it's like sometimes when they have Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate and Sonny Styles, Norvell Reese and Caleb Downs, you just got to get out of the way a little bit and make sure you don't overthink. And like, I think there are many coaches who could succeed that way. And so like the thing that I think about is like, nobody at Ohio State really knew Tim Walton all that well before he got here. And he got here and he's awesome. Like, nobody we thought Matt Patricia was not going to work. He replaced the highest paid coordinator in the sport. It felt like they were pulling Matt Patricia off the recycling pile. And he was awesome, right? Like, nobody knew in Ohio knew who Ryan Day was. That name was nothing to Ohio State fans. They brought in this guy who had been basically a failed quarterbacks coach in the NFL and he came to Ohio State and he was awesome. They pulled Tom Herman came from Iowa State. Nobody knew who that was. He got here and he was awesome. There have been all these guys who were kind of like on some level unknown before they got to Ohio State. And then they got here and they did an excellent job. So I do think there are many guys who can do an excellent job. And so I try not to get too bogged down in assistant coach hires. But I will acknowledge as everyone's talent evens out a little bit, that little scheme edge can matter a little bit more. But I don't think the Arthur Smith hire has to be perfect. It has to be competent. And if you're competent in Ohio State, you got a lot of other things around you that can help you win. And so that's my baseline. But I will acknowledge to me, a hire like this means. Means a little More than it used to, the way the sport is changing. Colton, what do you think?
- [21:46]
C
We're on a zoom, like, stream on a Monday, so why don't we go with some corporate jargon and say, synergy. You got corporate synergy in your coaching room. And I think, you know, unless you're like, you know, this is a dated reference, but it's. Unless it's, you know what? Mike did good. Buddy Ryan, you just got two guys who hate each other. Houston, Gus Malzahn. And even then, it could be successful. It's not like you got to get along, but at the very least, you just have synergy within your staff. And I think that's especially important for this current staff and this current head coach where we've seen when he has to divert his attention, kind of where that can lead to. He's covering up a hole, but then another hole in the ship is leaking over here. And so you're never really covering anything because there's always something going on. So when you have good coordinators who you trust to just handle their responsibilities, that leaves a head coach where Ryan Day currently is, he can focus on other things, and you just have. You. You don't have that to worry about in your building, which, you know, we. We focus so much on recruiting and bringing good guys in and having nil funds and winning games, and that's. That's what it is. That's what college football is. But there's so much stuff behind the scenes that we don't see, whether it's those relationships or just being able to trust who is leading your offense or leading your defense, and what that means to a team is as a whole and the structure of a program that we really take for granted. So when you have those things, like with the 2014 team or with the 2024 team as they progress throughout that playoff run, that's stuff where at a place like Ohio State, to your point, Doug, it doesn't have to be, you know, Kyle Shanahan leading your offense. It doesn't have to be the 2000 Ravens or Buddy Ryan leading your defense. And it's the most schematic, beautiful thing you've ever seen. It's just very good coordinators with very good talent leading a place like Ohio State to the highest they can go.
- [23:43]
B
If I could jump in real quick because. Yeah, if I could jump in real quick just because I do want to talk a little bit to me like, you know, Doug said something about the. You. When you have Jeremiah Smith and Julian say it and all this talent you can just get out of their own way. To me, that works against the Illinois of the world, the Michigan, states of the world, like what have you. Yeah, Ohio State can sleepwalk to a ten and two season most years. Maybe not next year with their schedule, but most years they can sleepwalk to a 10 and 2, 9 and 3 season. But you need that schematic edge when you're playing Indiana, who has d' Angelo pawns and all these great defensive backs. I don't think Ohio State did a great job scheming to put Jeremiah Smith in the best position to make plays all the time in that game. Or, you know, Carnell Tate and I get. Those guys are probably still banged up at that point of the season. But the same against Miami, you, like Bill said earlier, didn't get the pocket moving do enough to try and neutralize some of the pressure that was in Julian Sands face pretty consistently. I, I don't think the route concepts were always like drawn up. The best they could have been to get like the passing game going in those games the way it could have been consistently. So, yeah, I think you can just settle for competent when Ohio State is playing, you know, like I said, Northwestern or whatever. But when you actually get to the matchup games, teams with somewhat equated talent, the. The coordinators make a giant, giant difference in those games to me.
- [25:17]
C
And you have equated or better coordinators on the other side as well that can, that can match you.
- [25:23]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [25:24]
B
Yes.
- [25:25]
A
That's good. Hey, Colton, just real quick, HR Is going to contact you after the show. You want a $10 gift card to Caribou Coffee for that answer about synergy.
- [25:31]
C
So congratulations.
- [25:32]
B
Perfect.
- [25:32]
C
That'd be the first time. That'd be the first time HR has ever contacted me for a good reason. So, yeah, we're making progress there.
- [25:39]
A
Right? That's great.
- [25:40]
C
That's great.
- [25:41]
A
All right, Bill, we'll start with you for topic number three. This is one that you and I, Bill, discussed on our. On our Sunday Sound off show in our substack. And again, if people, if you don't know that Bill and I have a substack, Bill and Doug OSU substack.com We write over there. We do two shows a week over there. We take a lot of Q and A questions and. And Brian B. Over there asked us a version of this question. And I want to just bring it here because I thought it was interesting, which would have helped Ohio State the most this season as we kind of like maybe put final final bows on 2025 helping the Buckeyes this the most. If Ethan Onianwa, who had really locked down like the left tackle job and maybe allowed the offensive line to kind of slide into place in a different way, if they had a more reliable field goal kicker in big moments, you make the 27 yarder against Indiana, you make the one at the end of the half against Miami, or what we're talking about with Arthur Smith. If you had had a more experienced offensive play caller, what one of those three things would have helped the Buckeyes the most in 2025?
- [26:37]
D
Yeah, I've gone, I've gone back and forth on the O line one and the coordinator one. To me they do, they do kind of work hand in hand because, like, if you have a, whatever personnel deficiency in theory, like a good coordinator can find a way to work around that. But I, I think I'll go with the O line. Like, if, if they just sort of had everybody settled there and, and didn't have that glaring hole at right guard in that Miami game in particular, I think a lot of things probably could have gone differently. I think maybe they could have handled more of the, the movement and the, the kind of simulated pressure stuff that Indiana really screwed them up with in the Big Ten Championship had they just sort of had five kind of wholly reliable guys there. And I don't even know that, like Tiger Shabola was not just the. He was probably the least reliable, but there were other guys who struggled, I think, in, in both those games too. So it's not just like a one player conversation necessarily, but you have to wonder if some of those players were moved around in the different, in the different spots because Ethan Onion was just holding down left tackle.
- [27:42]
C
This.
- [27:42]
D
How much does, does all of that look different? So I'll, I'll go there, but I really do think it's. It's either that one or the OC or kind of even for me.
- [27:50]
A
Yeah, Ethan Onion, one invited to the Senior bowl after kind of playing 90 snaps for Ohio State this year. I, I'm gonna go with Onion too. And we again, we talked about it on, on the Sunday Substack show. Just like what Austin Seravel would have been able to do if he had been playing right guard or maybe like, you know, he makes the right side of the line more cohesive and instead he has to be the, the left tackle because the guy you brought in to be the left tackle and paid the money for and had the expectation for, it doesn't work out. It felt like it just caused the entire line to tilt a little bit. And I do think it would have been an answer that answers one position, but perhaps answers like multiple positions on that offensive line. There is a point why we made these three the categories that you could answer that we'll get to at the end. Colton, which one of the three? Andy and Colton, I'm interested the most. What, what one of the three would you pick?
- [28:38]
D
Thanks.
- [28:41]
C
I hate to make bad podcasting radio and agree with everybody, but to me it's, it's left tackle too, because it affects the whole offense. It's not just the line, it's not just the run game. It's also how uncomfortable Julian Sam looked in those last two games and, and throwing over the middle of the field. And if he just feels that, if he feels more comfortable in the pocket, I mean, it's not like there weren't plays to be made in either of those final two games from sane. And I think part of that was just due to maybe not trusting his offensive line. And I think that, you know, when we look at those other topics, it's, it's easy to me, the special teams thing to just to look at it and say, okay, good kicker, they win. More like if he make, if Fielding makes that field goal against Indiana, okay, they go to overtime, they can still lose. He makes that field goal against Miami, they can still lose. They probably still do lose both of those games, to be honest with you. And so to me, the special teams thing is way more than just get good picker, get good punter. And so to me, you look at kind of the offensive line and how jumbled it was this season. And if they just would have had that lockdown, it affects so many other things positively throughout the team that would have made a difference, in my opinion.
- [29:47]
A
Yep.
- [29:48]
D
Yep.
- [29:48]
A
What do you think, Andy?
- [29:50]
B
Well, I'm gonna make it four for four. Bill knows that I'm a fellow offensive line enjoyer. But I, I, I will talk about just since the rest of you have made such great points about it and how it would have benefited the right side a lot to have Saravelt over there and be able to drop just that fifth, you know, that fifth guy probably would have been Tegra from the starting lineup and the, the whole unit gets better. Right. But I, I will talk a little more about the Brian Hartline of it all because like, we, we haven't talked about that. We've all said, I think it's probably most of our number two. There's for me the reason it is definitely ahead of the kicking situation is does Ohio State need Jaden Fielding to make a clutch field goal, to push it to overtime or to win a game? If the offense is humming the way it could have been, should have been, right? And a lot of that goes back to the offensive line and the the issues they had in both those games up front. But at least in the Indiana game, the way your defense is playing, you've got to find some way again either to move the pocket or get just a way to scheme your great receiving talent open and make some plays down the field, mitigating the weaknesses you have up front or maybe more of the quick passing game. It seemed like too against Miami. As much as we're talking about the offensive line stuff here, it felt like they didn't run the ball up the middle enough. Like they found success with that early in the second half. And you wonder where it was really in the game plan that there wasn't much of it in the first half. At least it didn't seem like as much to me. The scheme could have been a difference maker to where you don't need Jaden Fielding against Indiana and it would have been a major upgrade to helping you survive against Miami. Now if your offensive line can't block anybody, it's hard to get a lot done. So that's why I'm gonna like lean to the offensive line here. Earlier I said coordinators are almost everything that like roster building and having the right pieces in place is every thing. So to me that's why I lean offensive line. But I can like like Bill the coordinating piece is a close second. For.
- [32:12]
A
The reason I like this question from from Brian B. One of our Substack subscribers, Colton, is that the three? And I think a lot of Ohio State fans, if you kind of laid out like oh man, where where could have been a little bit better in 2025. I think a lot of people would include these three there. Well veteran offensive play caller Arthur Smith, they've solved that. Maybe a more reliable kicker in big spots. Connor Hawkins they got from Baylor who has made field goals like that seem to solve that offensive line. They have four starters back. It feels like Ian Moore who played in the second half against Miami seems like a very logical guy in year three to step up and maybe be ready to be the left tackle. They're not out in the portal trying to solve offensive line things. The thing I like about this question Colton, is if these are three of the main things that maybe held Ohio State back in some way in 2025, they're kind of, if they shouldn't hold them back in 2026.
- [33:02]
C
That'S the ideal.
- [33:03]
B
Right?
- [33:04]
C
And that's why to me, I do think offensive line veteran, play caller, you can say, okay, those are. I feel at least maybe a little more confident. I need to see it with the offensive line. I probably have more faith that Arthur Smith can bring some degree of. I don't know if competency is the right word, but just smoothness to the offense and the way he calls it, offensive line, I'll wait and see on that till next year. And to me, the one that's just the biggest wild card, and I just, I refuse to believe it personally until I see it happen, is that the special teams overall is not just good or average level, but just won't hurt them in big moments. And that's why to me, it's more than just, okay, they brought in a guy who can kick. That's nice. That should be. The baseline is just having a good kicker or a good punter, but just executing on special teams. You know, it wasn't the fact that they had a bad punt against Miami. It was the fact that they had an illegal formation on a good punt. And then you have to replant it and Miami gets the ball instead of on the five yard line, they get it on the 30 yard line. So to me it's more than just good kicker, good punter, guy who can make field goals, guy who could, boom, 50 yard punts. It's the actual execution and coaching of the special teams that to me is, is the bigger kind of worry in that regard.
- [34:24]
A
You guys hear Landis wants to spend a million bucks in a special teams coach. You guys good with that million?
- [34:30]
C
That seems, that seems like a light bag. I'm talking Jordan money here. Let's go four or.
- [34:39]
A
It matters.
- [34:39]
B
I think we'll see. Sounds about right.
- [34:41]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Landis is getting that nil collective together to get a special teams coach. All right, question number four. We'll start with me. Will Jackson, Smith and Jigba be the best Ohio State receiver in NFL history? Now this is a crazy thing to say because the guys had a good year. We are acknowledging. I made sure I double checked it. Chris Carter and Paul Warfield, great Buckeyes are in the Pro Football Hall.
- [35:03]
D
Pro Football hall of Fame.
- [35:05]
B
Yeah, I was going, I was going to talk about those two. Yes.
- [35:08]
A
I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that. Jackson, Smith and Jigba at the moment is there also to note he is the second Buckeye to lead the NFL in receiving yards in a season. Everyone knows who the first was. We know who the first was.
- [35:24]
C
I don't actually know Carter or Mike Thomas.
- [35:27]
A
Mike Thomas. Mike Thomas, like that Mike Thomas run. Chris Carter got blocked by Jerry Rice some of those years.
- [35:34]
B
So there was playing with Randy Moss.
- [35:36]
A
That's true. He, Chris Carter led the league in receptions one year but didn't lead the league in yardage. So, like, so I, I understand this. I understand that, like. But I want to talk about JSN. I want to talk about the season. He's had 10 of 19 games so far this season, regular season and postseason of at least 100 yards, 10 catches for 153 and a touchdown in the NFC championship game. What was lost by kind of, you know, I can remember doing a podcast, sitting in a parking. Parking lot on Buckeye Talk, predicting that his last year at Ohio State, Jackson Smith and Jigba was going to have 2,000 receiving yards and then his season exploded. He seems, he's like, we talk, we've talked so much about like Marvin Harrison Jr. And Jeremiah Smith being sort of like the final evolution of Ohio State receivers. But you what you watch the way that Jackson Smith and Jigba sort of fits in the NFL right now, and we don't have to spend all of our time comparing him to Paul Warfield and Chris Carter, but I am interested in comparing him to like Marvin Harrison Jr. What Jeremiah Smith might be. He seems like as a number one receiver, it's not just a physical profile, but it's a style of play. It's hands, it's routes. It's like that he's not maybe the biggest guy, but he's like, has short area, quickness and that kind of thing. I wonder if he might be like the. Of this era, at least like the guy or will Jeremiah Smith go into the NFL and took over the league? So I don't necessarily have an answer to it, but I'm very interested in the discussion and I'll move it to you, Colton, because you have a better answer to this than I do.
- [37:10]
C
Well, I, I think to me he's, you got to do it for more than, more than a couple of seasons. But this season is just spectacular what he's done. And I'm not a huge NFL watcher, but just passively watching the game yesterday we, we've talked so much in this episode about what, you know, good coordinating can do for you. And on the, the one touchdown he's lined up in the Backfield and he runs. I think it was a sail route, and, you know, he's wide open, and then you get to the end of the game. I think it was on that last Seahawks drive where he creates four or five yards of separation, basically gets a first down. That almost pretty much puts a nail into the coffin of the game. And it's not like the Rams were sitting back thinking, okay, who are they going to go to here? They knew who they were going to go to there. And he still was able to get so open. And you look what he's been able to do, you know, for a quarterback like Sam Darnold, who has completely reinvented his career the past couple of years. And when you have a weapon like that, you know, you. You can see why. And so to me, his. His versatility and the fact that he's in such a good spot right now, and it seems like the. The Seahawks know exactly how to use him, that can kind of put him on that path. Because on the flip side of that, you look at the Cardinals and Marvin Harrison Jr. Whether it's his fault or, you know, the coaching's fault, there isn't alignment there, and you can see how much that's hurt his development. Whereas JSN is in this spot that's just perfect for him, and you see him flourishing.
- [38:32]
A
It hurts my heart a little bit. I really thought Garrett Wilson was going to be a superstar in the NFL, and he's out here dropping Marty supreme reviews on Twitter and. Because his team stinks and he's never had a quarterback and they don't know how to get him the ball. And like, I. I must. I feel sorry for Garrett Wilson, like, watching what JSN is doing and just thinking to himself, like, oh, man, like, if I had that kind of opportunity with the right kind of play caller in the right kind of situation, it's tough, man. Andy, what do you think of this?
- [39:00]
B
Yeah, I. To me, I don't mind honestly talking about Chris Carter and Paul Warfield in this discussion, because we're projecting. It's more of. More of a case where you. The question is, like, is he going to be the greatest NFL receiver in Ohio State history? Like, no. Sure. It wasn't. Is he right now? So, yeah, you. You look at the hall of Fame careers of Chris Carter and Paul Warfield in their times were incredible. I mean, Paul Warfield played in an era where the passing passing games were really in their infancy compared to what they're at today. Back in the 70s, you know, when he was in his prime. And like to me the era is it makes it hard to compare right with with him. It makes it hard too for Chris Carter, but to a lesser extent because there were still good passing attacks in the 90s and early 2000s. But Chris Carter talking about one of the most sure handed receivers in NFL history, caught a lot of touchdown passes. But jsn to me, and I've seen it since he was at Ohio State, like people forget that year where it was him, Olave and Wilson. He put up the biggest numbers of all three. He set the single season receiving record and the single season receptions record at Ohio State that season playing with two other guys who were first round NFL draft picks and older than him. So you go back to that at Ohio State and it looked to me it just showed. He showed the same explosion in year three with the Seahawks this year. His ability to play all over the field, in the slot, out of the backfield, out wide. They'll line him up sometimes too. He is a matchup nightmare for defenses and you never know where he's going to go. Like you can call whatever zone scheme you want and try to roll coverages one way or another. Jsn and again the Seahawks have done a great job scheming him up. He's going to find a way to get open and if he's not open, he's going to make a ridiculous catch look way too easy. To me he's a complete package right now. He was the best receiver in the NFL this season and I think there are going to be more seasons where he's the best receiver in the NFL and he puts up more numbers than everyone else because of the position he plays. Slot close to the quarterback is his primary spot. But again, lining up all over the field and the various creative things you can do, I think there is a real chance he ends up going down as the best Ohio State NFL wide receiver and gets a gold jacket and is also in Canton. There we go.
- [41:40]
A
There we go. Andy Anders isn't afraid. Let's go. I'm all the way there.
- [41:47]
C
He can kind of bridge that gap of, you know, the guy who has the, the numbers, Chris Carter wise accolades and you know, he's one big game away from having that plus the super bowl and having the San Antonio homes, you know, Super Bowl MVP style game as well to go with it. We can kind of be the first guy to have and it's not Chris Carter's fault that the Vikings didn't have that major, you know, team success. Even though they had some great seasons, but he can kind of be the first guy to really take it to the next level and have both of those individual accolades and have the team accolades to go with it.
- [42:20]
A
And I definitely did not ask that this question just so I could say that I bet JSN to be the Super Bowl MVP before the playoffs started at 28. 1. I just, I. I just wanted to put that in. He's plus 475 right now. Landis, what do you think about this?
- [42:34]
D
Yeah, I. Colton sort of touched on what I was going to touch on there. Like, I do think that the. The Super Bowl MVP thing and champion is. Is out there lingering for Jackson. And like, I, I think Seattle is going to win, and I think JSN's got a great chance of being the MVP. That is. That is a heck of an accomplishment for a guy this early in his NFL career. And I don't have any reason to believe, like, it's going to slow down. You know, I. It does seem like maybe guys don't have the same longevity in the league that they used to. So, like, will he stick around long enough to, like, supersede some of the individual statistics. Statistics, Excuse me, of a guy like Chris Carter. I'm not sure. I think that's the comparison right now is Chris Carter. You know, all due respect to Paul Warfield, but I think JSN is certainly the standard of OSU guys in the league right now. And sort of like in this recent era where they've been putting a lot of guys in there, I think he's chasing Chris Carter. I definitely think he can catch him. And then we'll see when Jeremiah gets to the league if he finds himself on a similar track. But, like, you know, I think we could have a situation. They didn't play together, but, but like, whatever. Three years from now, where the two best receivers in the league might be Jackson Smith and Jigman and Jeremiah Smith. I don't think that's, like, fanciful. I think that could be the case. So since he's got the head start, sure, I'll. Sure I'll give a tip of the cap to Jackson now, but I think Jeremiah might have something to say about it once he gets to the league.
- [43:58]
A
You guys want to do this real quick? I'm looking at Pro Football Reference. Most receiving yards for Ohio State grads in the NFL, Jackson, Smith, and Jigba is 18th at the moment, all time in NFL receiving yards. I'm going to hit it. Hit you quick. Everybody out there in YouTube land on your podcast, write these down. You have to. Might have to go back and like hit the ten second back button to do this. Here we go. Number one, all time NFL receiving yards for an Ohio State Buckeye. Number one is Chris Carter at 13,899. The only other guy over 10,000 is Joey Galloway. 10,950. And then we go three Terry Glenn. Four Paul Warfield. Five, Jeff Graham. Six. Terry McLaren. Seven, Michael Thomas. Eight, Dante Lovelli. Go look that up. Nine, San Antonio Holmes. Ten Ted Ginn Jr. Eleven Keith Byers. Out of the backfield. Tremendous receiver. Twelve Brian Hartline. Thirteen David Boston. Fourteen Michael Jenkins. Fifteen Chris Olave. Sixteen Curtis Samuel. Seventeen Garrett Wilson. And eighteen Jackson Smith and Jigba. You can go bear yourself on the off season and look up Ohio State receivers in the NFL. Last question, number five. We'll start with Colton again with you. I was watching the AFC Championship game. It's a blizzard. Madre Stevenson is just like trying to get the handoff and falls on his face because he slips on the ice. And I thought in a situation like this, the snowstorm is there. Do you want that game in a dome that you're walking through the snow and then you're getting inside, or do you want it outside like that? I put the question out on Twitter. I'll say that at the end. But you, Colton, what do you pick a game like that in a snowstorm, do you want it in the snow or in a dome?
- [45:38]
C
I don't know if I have a breath, like a complete preference, but if it's in the snow and it's not like windy and going crazy, you can kind of have a game. Like what year was it, Bill? 2013. The Eagles and the Lions. Then like classic game they played in the snow, which everybody seemed to have fun in. Nobody was having fun in Denver yesterday. So if it's like a big game, sure, you know, dome, because then you don't have the possibility of something like that. And even, you know, no dome. Like, I'll say 45 minutes ago, before we started the show, I took a nice little walk around Santa Clara and was looking at Levi's Stadium. I was walking right next to the, the old electrical substation, felt my Achilles started tingling a little bit, so I had to get back in the house. So I'm hoping for good weather here in the super bowl here in a couple weeks. But like, yeah, you, you would hope for some decent weather for, for a big game, national championship, super bowl type of game.
- [46:30]
A
Okay, so. So Colton, Colton, you'll take the roof. You'll take the roof. I was, I was looking at your Twitter feed, I was like, I feel like this guy might be a snow guy. I thought you were.
- [46:38]
C
I'll take it. I'll take it for sure. I, I think my, my thing is, is, you know, people start complaining about it now, like, oh, it's Mickey Mouse. It's not fair. But the second that everything goes to all domes, in 20 years from now, you're going to start to see, like, remember when football was like this?
- [46:54]
B
Yeah.
- [46:55]
C
And it's going to be the same people now complaining about it. So I'll take either one. But if you're going to have, have a big game, then let's, let's at least get decent conditions for it just so we don't have to hear people complaining about it.
- [47:07]
A
Okay, Andy, Dome or snow question is.
- [47:10]
B
Like a war of my two inner selves. There's the small town, Ohio Chillicothe kid that's like sitting there. Football's played in the elements. This is a man's game. We're gonna fight it out in the snow. Like, I, I want to see the snow games. I want to see just old school, you know, everything hurts more in the cold, and you're just like in the trenches battling run games. Like all, all the stuff that snow brings and the, the crazy weather, it just adds such an aesthetic, such an aura to football. On the other hand, I think it's fair. The objective journalist side of me, the, the, the, you know, whatever that part of me is. Andy says that if you're deciding a championship game, if you're deciding like, really big important implication games, you should try and determine the best team regardless of circumstances. Like, you should try and I guess like to use more of a scientific term, you should like, try to have as few variables as possible. Try to eliminate the variance of the weather. And, you know, both teams have to play in it. Right. But whereas if you neutralize the conditions, no wind, regular old temperature, it's not going to benefit one team or the other as much. Well, I guess it could benefit one team or the other, but the snow is like this extra element that feels like it could influence the game rather than, here are the two teams that are playing and, and let's see who's the best between these two teams. Not just the best snow team, but there's also that inner side wins.
- [48:58]
A
Dome or snow? Dome or snow. Which is it?
- [49:02]
B
I want to see it in the snow. I want to see it raining down, just field covered like those classic games. Dogged fight, let's get it on. Let's go.
- [49:13]
A
Chillicothe kid. One out, man. Landis, do you know what the French phrase for eliminate variants? I thought you dropped that on us here.
- [49:22]
D
I don't know. I do like Andy being on Team Snow while he wears a Hawaiian shirt on January 26th. I. I'm. I'm Team Snowman. Like, I, I love snow football. I understand that it lessens the quality or that it can. I'm okay with that. I'm. I'm entertained by it either way. Mass appeal. I certainly understand. Maybe, maybe not for everybody. I don't besmirch any program that would like to build a dome stadium because I understand all the different opportunities that can afford you. But I have no issue whatsoever with big games being played in the snow. The. The more, the more the better for me. I think it's awesome. I love the aesthetics of it. Both teams have to handle the conditions. So, like, I don't think there's any advantage gained that way. Maybe it doesn't allow you to put your best foot forward as a team, but the same thing is true for the other team. And I think it looks cool and it's fun. So give me, Give me office. No games.
- [50:20]
A
I will say the one thing that I kind of wanted to get around to and I just thought like, if you. NFC championship game versus AFC championship game, it's like the NFC championship game was so much better because.
- [50:30]
D
Yeah, because those teams are better, but also those teams are significantly better.
- [50:34]
A
They also were falling. I mean, I, I do. Because it was one of those, like the, the Bears Rams game. Like, everyone was doing the still shot of like Stafford and the snowflakes, like throwing the ball and everybody. But like, I thought like, the, the second half of the Denver New England game was a bridge too far. I, I do think the point is this. I like where college football is because I think like the championship game, it's not just the Super Bowl. We know the super bowl is not going to be in the snow. Right. But even like a championship game, I think the stakes are too high. It matters too much to throw in a snowstorm and have people falling on their face trying to get the ball. It's like you worked all year for this to get to the point where you can't even walk. And like the college football, we have these first round games on campus where. Landis, you were in a snowstorm two seasons ago at Notre Dame for Indiana. Notre Dame. Right. Like, I was at that SMU Penn State game and like, it felt like the snow mattered, but then we get away from that. And I actually think. I know some people think the campus games should continue longer in college football. I actually think having watched that in the NFL, we might be at a really good spot in college football where we get a dose of that where. Especially where the geography matters. North and south make Alabama or Georgia or Ole Miss come north to play in the snow, which they never would down there. And we do that for a round. But then when it's like, go time, we're. We're putting teams in situations to put their best foot forward, whether that's in a dome, whether it's in warm weather in the Rose bowl, that kind of thing. And I just thought to myself, like, oh, like that wouldn't have happened at a Final Four level. That would have not have happened in college football to play in a snowstorm, right? And so that's a fact. Now you can decide whether you think that's good or bad. I think it's good because there still might be a snowstorm in a playoff game in college football in the first round. But then when we really get to the very best teams, you're not going to have that go college football finish with a go college football.
- [52:21]
D
You want to move the AFC and NFC championship games to neutral sites, like.
- [52:26]
A
Probably not, because you earn that. You earn the right to play in front of your fans and those kind of things. So, like, it's a tough decision. And actually, like, if you're playing in December in week 14 and it's snowing, like, fine, I don't care. I just thought yesterday was bad. And I don't. It's like, to have, like, well, could you have a dome for one game? It's like, no, you can't have a dome in Denver for one game, you idiot. What are you talking about? So I don't know that I have a solution. I just thought that game was a turd.
- [52:49]
C
And we're all a product of our experiences in the scars that we've gotten from the teams we root for, right? So, like, you know, 2022, Ohio State goes into Northwestern when it's 70 mile an hour winds and you're like, oh, this isn't going to go well. Or like the 20, 21 Michigan game where you kind of think like, oh, these conditions aren't great, and then the other team loves to ground and pound the ball. So if you have a team that can kind of play that style, then, yeah, you absolutely want to be in it, but if not, then yeah, you want, you want to get out of that as fast as you possibly can.
- [53:20]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [53:22]
A
Gentlemen, thanks so much for your time here on around the Shoe. We enjoy having two smart, interesting people coming on here to talk Ohio State football. Colton, again, just to tell, tell the people where they can find you on social media, where they can find you on YouTube, what kind of content you're putting out there. You clearly know and love ball. Where can they find you?
- [53:39]
C
They can find me on Twitter at Dubsco. That's just, you know, basically anything goes there pretty much. But all college football stuff, Two Stripe CPD on Twitter, on TikTok, on Instagram. You can also go to Two Stripes CPD.com if you want to get your first month at $1 for Two Stripe CPD. You, you can go to Two Stripe CPD slash Bill and Doug. I'll have that up by the time this is posted. So you want to check it out. Get your first first month for a dollar. Please feel free. It's the best college football content. General college football content on the Internet, in my opinion. You could check out I just dropped the hits of the year video. I just did 25 Revisiting my 25 predictions from the season. Some were great, some were pretty awful. And then I'm going to have team grades for every single team in the country dropping next week. So it's offseason, but all the college football content is just starting on 2 stripe CPD. So check it out.
- [54:35]
A
Very cool. Thank you so much, Colton. Andy, what can they find you doing? What are you doing over there at eleven Warriors?
- [54:41]
B
Yeah, just writing, writing, writing, writing. A lot of some basketball right now, but not still not as much as football because there's a lot more interest in football even during the peak of basketball season around Ohio State parts. But you know, there's a lot of reason to be interested in football when they're competing in national championships. And, and I've written lately, it's been nice to kind of do some more reflective pieces. That's kind of how I've been like whether that's on Ohio State's transfer portal strategy here. Soon I'm going to be kind of reviewing the season and grading out each position group. So, so that's going to be something to look out for for me this week. But I'm on social media Twitter @andy&ers55. You can find me there. You can find me on eleven Warriors. And yeah, I just always love the opportunity to come on here with you guys and talk some ball.
- [55:33]
A
And Bill, I will not make jokes anymore on this show. We write and talk every day. We're not going anywhere. I made a joke last week and people like, what, you're leaving for three months. We're not stopping. Billanddugosu.substack.com we're going to keep doing the shows here. We have a bunch of stuff planned. We're going we would say we're going to probably we're going to have something up Tuesday evening very quickly after the schedule release about Ohio State schedule, once we have all that planned out. So make sure you find us back here on YouTube and your podcast feeds for that. And then we we're going to do other stuff. Bill, right?
- [56:00]
D
Yep. I'm working on a Taving Sinclair story diving more on on Arthur Smith. Spring ball is like four weeks away at this point, so. Yeah, plenty. Plenty going on.
- [56:12]
A
All right. Very cool. Thanks as always to you guys for joining us. We try to do it every Monday here on around the Shoe on this robust college football Ohio State beat where we have so many smart people that we get to talk to. So, Colton, thank you so much for your time. Really fun having you on. Mr. Anders, thank you so much for your time. Thanks for coming back and joining us. Thanks to you guys for being here for now, for Colton, for Andy, for Bill. I'm Doug and that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Sam.