← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State Around the Shoe: Jeremiah Smith's usage, Julian Sayin's potential, Alabama's failures
00:43:05
Ohio State debate lives on Around the Shoe, talking Buckeyes from Julian Sayin to Jeremiah Smith, from Matt Patricia to Alabama lessons.
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- [00:00]
Splash Sports Announcer
The NFL season is back and so is NFL Survivor, the most fun way to ride every week of the season. And this season you can turn your love of football into cold hard cash with Splash Sports. Splash Sports, which owns Run youn Pool and Office Football Pool, is giving away over $5 million in prizes this season, including the Big Splash, a $2.5 million guaranteed NFL Survivor contest. It's simple. Pick one team a week to win, survive and advance. Last year it was a $1 million prize pool and this year it's more than doubled. Entries are $150 for the big Splash and if you join now and use code BLUE25, you'll get $25 back on your entry. Splash has something for everyone with contest entries starting at $5 and going all the way up to $5,000. And if Survivor isn't your thing, Splash also has pick em contests every week so you can test your skill spread and quick picks, which lets you get up to 50 times multipliers for choosing more or less on up to six players. Join the Big Splash and other NFL contests on Splash sports. Now that's splashsports.com bluewire and use code blue25 when signing up. Splash Sports, the home of Survivor. This NFL season.
- [01:26]
Doug Lamoris
You are part of sports media history for the first time ever. Four heads in a box talking about sports welcome to the inaugural edition of around the Shoe here on the Bill and Doug show where Doug Lamoris, Bill Landis we are joined by two of the finest Ohio State beat writers in the land. We're going to talk about five Ohio State topics for about five minutes each. Tony Gerdman from Buckeye Huddle, Stephen Means from cleveland.com and Buckeye Talk. Thanks so much for being here fellas. Tony Gerdeman how long have you been.
- [01:56]
Tony Gerdeman
Covering the Buckeyes full time on the beat? Since 2010. So I've gotten to see a few head coaches in my time and has plenty of stories, some good, some bad. And then of course, what two national championships in there as well.
- [02:10]
Doug Lamoris
Two national champions. I liked how you didn't say how many years because you didn't want to do the math of like if I started in 2010, what year is it? You just said the year 2010 everyone loves. Gertie's been around a long time. Stephen Means, how long you been doing this?
- [02:21]
Stephen Means
This is my seventh full year. My first game was the Nebraska game in 2018. Coming off of the bye week with the Purdue game was my first game. Funny enough. Obviously the guy who's hosting this was showing me around the beat at that point. Right. Look how things change here. And so essentially, I know Urban Meyer for four games, and I know the entire Ryan Day era. So I have one national championship and two national championship games and a weird record against Michigan.
- [02:49]
Doug Lamoris
So the man who drove out Urban Meyer and ushered in the Ryan De era. Stephen Means, we're happy to have you here on around the Shoe. Five topics A. Bill, you're here too, right?
- [03:00]
Bill Landis
I am here, yeah. It doesn't matter how long I've been covering Ohio State, but I do get confused for Gerd at least once a football season. Really? Yeah. That's why I've kept the beard for so long. It's the only thing that differentiates us.
- [03:14]
Tony Gerdeman
I mean, it's not the only thing.
- [03:15]
Bill Landis
But.
- [03:17]
Doug Lamoris
Is that why you haven't grown a beard, Gerd, because you're like, well, Landis took it.
- [03:22]
Tony Gerdeman
Yeah. A lot of stuff I would like to do, I can't because Landis does it. So I just have to stick to my own thing.
- [03:28]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, that's fair. Join the club. Douglas Maurice. 21 years doing it. I think that Stephen Means was in kindergarten when I started covering this team. All right, here we go. Five topics on Ohio State football. First up, what percent of Julian saying of the full Julian saying experience did we see on Saturday against Texas? 13 of 22 for 126 yards and a touchdown. Tony Gerdeman, how much of Julian saying did we see?
- [03:56]
Tony Gerdeman
I'm going to say about 20% overall compared to what we will see as the season goes on. You look at, I think the 20 passes that he threw, 10 of them were 4 yards or more downfield. 10 of them were like 3 yards and under. So he threw more passes behind the line of scrimmage than beyond 10 yards. So I think that's something that we'll see expand as the season goes on. And, you know, they were. Ryan Day admitted they were conservative in what they wanted to do. And then also you have the Texas defense that was kind of maybe playing some. Some safeties that would take away some of those deep shots. And so I think it was a conservative approach. And it's going to get less conservative as the season goes on, but I'd say 20 to 25%.
- [04:43]
Doug Lamoris
Okay. Stephen, how about you?
- [04:46]
Stephen Means
Yeah, I'd say about 23. I. I think what we saw is he can handle this. I do think that's an important part of being the Ohio State quarterback is can you handle that? I think C.J. had to learn that lesson. I think Justin had to learn that lesson. I think Kyle and Will also had to learn that lesson of everything that comes with that, especially in a game like this. I tend to believe Ryan Day for now that the reason they chose to approach the game that way is because it maybe wouldn't have been fair to ask Julian sand to be Superman in week one the way they asked C.J. stroud to be Superman in week one and week two. And the environment around Julian was a little bit better. I think the footballness of Julian sand, the reason why we've all thought he was going to be the guy who succeeded Will Howard as a starting quarterback, I don't think we've seen any of that. I think we saw his processing and his composure. But how they're going to use him, what the identity of Ohio State's offense is going to be in both the run game and the pass game. I think they spent nine months just trying to get through Texas, and now officially they can start working on what comes next with Julian sand in this offense.
- [05:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I'm low as well. Probably something in the low 20s, like 21, 22, similar to Stephen and Gerd. Because I do think like this, this was not a showcase for Julian, say, in this Texas game. I suppose there's a reality where it could have been, but I think it makes sense that it wasn't. And now as we move forward from this Texas game, I think everything is a showcase for Julian saying than Ohio State's passing attack. They ran the ball like 60 of the time. They're not going to do that. If the rushing rate is above 60 or 60 in any other game moving forward, I'll eat one of my shoes because I just don't think that that's the way this offense is going to operate anymore. With Julian saying as the trigger man and these wide receivers being as good as they are. You saw his processing, as Steven said, you saw the quick release. You did not see him attack downfield really all that often. He. He had an opportunity to do it on the fourth and one on the opening drive, the Jeremiah Smith, but instead he threw that ball to Max Clara, which was still, I thought, a pretty aggressive throw. But there are things that get into like, you know, pushing the ball down the field more. I actually thought you got a decent feel for his. His athleticism in the Texas game. There were a couple times where he had to escape the pocket. And even if he just threw the ball away, I think you did see some of the quick twitch stuff that Ryan Day has talked about. I Don't think he's going to blow anyone away with his athleticism, but he can move some and I think down the road that might invite some opportunities for him to run a little bit. So that's another area where the offense can expand. But this was as vanilla, I think, as an Ohio State offensive game plan gets. So there's just, you know, there's a world of room to grow for Julian in the offense. So the percentage is. Is minuscule compared to, you know, a lot of other quarterbacks who are maybe more experienced in week one.
- [07:37]
Doug Lamoris
I. I would just like to note that I think Julian saying got smoked by Arch Manning in that game. I'm just looking at PFF stats because that's all I go by Julian saying 46th among power four quarterbacks in week one offensive grade. Arch Manning 28th. I mean, Arch Manning kicked Julian Sands butt. And anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. And this is the final episode of around the Shoe where ridiculous things are, said Landis. I just would like to also advise. Didn't there was a Florida State guy who got in a lot of trouble last year for saying, like, he'd eat poop if something happened. I don't know if we want to be a promising to eat things kind of show. I don't Gerd. I don't want to see Landis eat a shoe.
- [08:13]
Bill Landis
I don't want to.
- [08:14]
Tony Gerdeman
Well, I think if you're starting a new show, the thing you need to do is make an outlandish promise that you eventually have to follow through on. So I, I feel like this was planned all along from Bill and you, Doug.
- [08:24]
Bill Landis
Frankly, yeah, I'm pretty confident. I'm pretty confident I can find like a gummy version of shoes to eat. So I'm fine.
- [08:31]
Stephen Means
Yeah, I think we're doing a good job. I think we're doing a good job. So far, we've mentioned Arch Manning four times and Bill Landis has said he's going to eat his shoe. Good job, everybody. We're gonna get all the views we want now.
- [08:42]
Doug Lamoris
To the moon, baby. To the moon. I'm at 46% based on that number 46 ranking. Because I think the thing that was true is what you guys said, the poise. So the thing he will do more, but the baseline poise is going to be, I think, a primary component of how he plays quarterback. And again, comparing that to Arch Manning, you could just see a guy get rattled. I was curious, like, for instance, watching Notre Dame on Sunday night. C.J. carr, again, there's a lot of Quarterbacks who got eased into things. But then Notre Dame needed him in the second half to do some stuff and he did some stuff and some people got really fired up and there's like, you know, I think CJ Cart, they didn't win but he, he showed some things in the second half that Julian saying did not have to show. That was not asked to show. But man, can you not wait until he's asked to show it? Because I will say this, I'm not going to only make fun of PFF. They do a lovely job. You pay 150amonth and they throw a bunch of stats at you.
- [09:38]
Bill Landis
You can throw into your show.
- [09:40]
Doug Lamoris
Power four quarterbacks who had both zero big time throws and zero turnover worthy plays in week one, Haynes King and in a win, Haynes King of Georgia Tech. Good. Dante Moore, young guy at Oregon. Gunner Stockton, young guy at Georgia. Drew Aller who just does not make mistakes at Penn State. Devin Dampier and a big win for Utah. Bryce Underwood, a young guy at Michigan and Mark Kranowski at Iowa. So this was an Iowa quarterback. Kirk Ference loved Julian Saenz performance. And now again I threw in another Stephen to the moon. You drop Kirk Ferent into a Show, boom, that's 2,000.
- [10:14]
Stephen Means
Especially you. You of all people dropping Kirk Ferent. That's when it gets the real money going on. Now you got to go to Iowa. Now you'll go talk to him.
- [10:20]
Doug Lamoris
I gotta, I'm not sure what you're referencing. 46% for me. Our overall average is 28. 28 of what we saw of Julian saying. We'll move on to topic number two. Stephen. Of course I did this. If there's a receiver question, I'm letting Stephen means go first. Did Ohio State successfully use Jerem Smith on Saturday? 10 targets, six catches. Is that a version of success? Yes or no?
- [10:48]
Tony Gerdeman
Sure.
- [10:50]
Stephen Means
I, I think the way that they used him was great. They didn't just stick him at X and say, hey, go win a one on one and be jj. They moved him around. If you saw. I think Carnell played technically X receiver just as much as JJ did. JJ was with the tight end a lot. They moved him all over the place and forced Texas to actually put effort towards covering him. I don't think JJ maximized himself a lot. Obviously with some of the job drops. I think some of the questionable, maybe it should have been pass interference calls. I mean your best player in college football, maybe you need to fight through that a little bit more. But I do think some of it is it Goes back to the Julian sand point of how much did they put on Julian Sands play? Because I do think especially over these next two weeks because they're playing Gramlin State in Ohio, I do think we start to see the rhythm between Julian and JJ in game start to show us up a little bit more. So if you were looking for the explosive version of Jeremiah Smith, I think these next two weeks are when we are going to see that. I think the way they used him, where they put him, how they lined him up, how they tried to get him the ball. Yes, they maximized jj. Did it maximize him in terms of his overall production? And did he have the revenge game against Texas like he did against Oregon in the Rose bowl last year? No, that didn't happen. And I don't know how many games, big games, matchup games this year that JJ can have less than 75 yards and we say that Ohio State wins.
- [12:16]
Doug Lamoris
What'd you think Bill?
- [12:17]
Bill Landis
I thought yeah, I think the answer is yes, they had the revenge play drawn up on the first drive. It's just that the balding didn't go to him. So if that play happens and Julian saying throws that ball and Ohio State opens its game against Texas with a 50 yard touchdown to Jeremiah Smith. Everyone's answering this question with like an emphatic yes, but even though that play didn't happen, I still think it's yes, they had to move him around. They did. He played 30 of his snaps from, from the slot which I think is, is a good number for him and probably a number he should be at most games because every team Ohio State faces is going to try to cover him in similar ways to Texas. Whether or not they have the players to do it is another question. But that's the life that, that Jeremiah will be living this year. I even going back to last year, I thought they needed to embrace more opportunities to get Jeremiah the ball quickly and in space and let him run after the catch more. And they tried it. He unfortunately dropped one early in that game. There were a couple of others where I think he had the opportunity to do something but he was unfortunately for him interfered with which wasn't always called they. Texas was I think deploying the, the hack a shack method with Jeremiah Smith and I think believing in the truism of college football that they're not going to call pass interference on every single play so you might as well try it on every play and see if you can get away with it. And they did a couple of times. But I, you know, they Had a lot of time to. To figure out exactly how to use Jeremiah against Texas, coming off of a game where he only had one touch, and. And it felt like they had a good plan for him in. In an otherwise, like I said, like, pretty. Pretty vanilla game plan, they at least were intentional about getting him the ball. So I thought. I think the answer is yes.
- [13:51]
Doug Lamoris
Smack a Smith. We call it smack a Smith. Is that all right?
- [13:54]
Bill Landis
Smith. Shutter Smith.
- [13:56]
Doug Lamoris
Shove a Smith. Yeah. Okay, we'll. We'll workshop that a little bit. I'm gonna say I don't know, and I'm the host, and I can do that. Gerd, what do you say? No, I, I, I'm scarred. I will say all of us. Stephen wasn't here, but Stephen, I'm sure, was watching. I'm a little bit scarred. By 2015 for Ohio State, when they had so much talent and. And they felt like they were forcing things. So when I feel like Ohio State's forcing things to a guy, I'm like, man, I can't believe they're forcing things. And then when they have a great player that a defense takes away, I'm like, man, I can't believe they let the defense take that guy away. So I get angsty both ways. So I guess it's just a little odd. 10 targets and nobody else on the team had more than two. Like, is that almost. Is that almost too much of a disparity? So I'm torn up inside and unable to give a coherent answer. I'm. I'm barely a yes. And I guess the thing that would bother me the most is if you have a guy who's talented getting the ball down the field, and then you're like, well, they took deep shots away. We couldn't use them. That's silly. So they did try to get him. They. They emphasized getting him the ball on shorter routes, which I think is good. But I still don't know if I felt, like, completely great about the flow. How'd you. How'd you feel about the flow, Gerd?
- [15:16]
Tony Gerdeman
I don't know that Texas allows you to have much flow. So I, I think you can give them some credit as well. But going in, going into the game, I said they need to get the ball to him like they did against Oregon in the Rose bowl, whether it's behind the line of scrimmage or whatever, so that you're not just stuck with two or three targets. And they did that. And as Bill said, if they would hit the deep shot, then you're probably talking and and if he catches the two passes that he drops, he's over 100 yards. And we're not really talking about this, but I think in this instance. Did they use him correctly? Was it success? Yes. It's like. Did you drive the Lamborghini successfully through the school zone? Yes. Does it look great? I mean, it's 20 miles an hour, so it's, it's limited in the bells and whistles, but they did enough. And I do think, as Randy said afterwards, they could do more. And as Bill said, there was a lot of grabbing. And you do wonder how long this is going to last. If this is just going to be a thing that happens this season where like the Cam Newton thing, people are just allowed to hit him and grab him because he's so much bigger and stronger than everybody. And is that just allowed? I do think. And maybe these drops and maybe some of the, the, the conservative approach, throwing the ball, I think both Julian saying and Jeremiah Smith, they don't want to be fed. They want to hunt like a T. Rex. This game did not necessarily allow them to hunt. They will start doing that more and more. And I think looking back, Ryan Day and Brian Heartland are going to see this game and say, next time we play Texas, let's go do a little hunting.
- [16:45]
Doug Lamoris
One time there was a guy in a sports car driving through our neighborhood too fast. When we got to a stop sign, I was a couple cars behind him and I was yelling at him for driving too fast in our neighborhood.
- [16:54]
Bill Landis
Neighborhood.
- [16:55]
Doug Lamoris
And then he like motioned me over into a parking lot. And so we both parked. And then he called the cops on me. And the cops came and like yelled at me for yelling at somebody else. And I was like, am I gonna go to jail for shouting? And I was like, that's probably how this was always gonna end. I can't be surprised by this outcome.
- [17:14]
Bill Landis
All right, I thought you were gonna say he pulled you over and then rolled out the window and said, go dogs, and then just kept driving away.
- [17:21]
Doug Lamoris
No. Yeah. I mean, pulled out, pull over and beat the living hell out of me is also an option there too, which also probably deserves to happen at some point in my life. Go dogs. Gunner. I love Gunner Stockton and Julian saying in the same sentence, man.
- [17:35]
Bill Landis
You also called Gunner Stockton a young guy, which he is not.
- [17:38]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, no, I know. He like owns a farm, doesn't he? He's like a 28 year old professional farmer. He's a man.
- [17:44]
Stephen Means
I'm sorry, that's invented all over again.
- [17:47]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, Gunner Stockton's the man, he's 40. Matt Patricia, scale of 1 to 10, he's the new Ohio State defensive coordinator. What did you think of the hire when it was made? 1 is bad, 10 is good. What do you think of the hire after his week one debut?
- [18:02]
Bill Landis
Bill Landis, when the hire was made, I was probably a two famously and now I'm probably, I don't know, like a, like an eight. I think the one thing that I want to sort of keep in my mind is how much time he had to devise the Texas game plan and then implement it and get all those guys ready. And it will be a different task now moving forward. When you don't have whatever it was six months to think about one singular opponent and put your best foot forward, it's not to say that they won't, but the bar was just set so incredibly high in that first game that I don't, I don't know that I want to hold Ohio State quite to that with an understanding of sort of like the ebbs and flows of a football season. But everything that I was sort of concerned about like player relationships, well, the guys like playing for him I think is a definitive yes. So so far with the way that the players have, have talked about map attrition, what I've observed of their interactions with each other, can he distill his game plans down in a way that is understandable and digestible for 19, 20, 21 year old college football players? I think at least one game sample size that that question or that answer is yes. And then how does he adjust to some of the different like quirks of the college game that maybe you don't see a ton of in the NFL and I guess like Texas didn't come out with a full like you know, kind of like junkie game plan with motions and chips and all that stuff was what was a little surprising. But it never felt like Patricia was on the back foot. Sark seemed like he was on the back foot a lot throughout, throughout that game, which is nothing other than like a tip of the cap to Matt Patricia and his preparation for defending that offense. So two to an eight for me.
- [19:40]
Doug Lamoris
I'll go four to an eight. And after Ryan Day explore explained the hire at the first news conference, I was starting to creep more towards a five and a six of like hey, we wanted to keep the rest of the defensive staff intact and a lot of other coordinators would come in and, and blow the staff out and we didn't want to do that.
- [19:59]
Splash Sports Announcer
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- [21:21]
Doug Lamoris
This is the headline for week one of college football. Super bowl champion New England Patriots defensive guru takes college football by storm. Also Bill Belichick to coach. First game tonight we are in the world where Bill Belichick is going to be trying to live up to Matt Patricia. What a world. By the way, I'm not watching a single frickin snap of North Carolina tcu. You cannot make me care about an old man in what's he doing in his retirement? I don't care what people do in their retirement even if that happens to be coaching college football team. You're gonna watch Atlantis. Of course you're gonna watch.
- [22:01]
Bill Landis
You love ball.
- [22:01]
Doug Lamoris
I'm not watching anything. I'm going for a walk. Also credit there have been, I feel like people have been saying like it's he's used to NFL schemes. I think one of the things that happened in college football is it's not about what the coaches know, it's about what the players know. And you have. I think we have to give credit to how smart Ohio State's secondary is Caleb. Caleb Downs has a computer for a brain but also for guys like Jalen McLean and Jermaine Matthews and Lorenzo Styles and some of these other guys to be able to execute what clear clearly was a great game plan. Tip of the cap to them. Gerd, what about you?
- [22:37]
Tony Gerdeman
Jaylen McLean, a sophomore. Devin Sanchez in there as the dime, as a true freshman. Like, they're getting these guys ready. I was probably like a six and now I'm at an eight. And I, the reason I was, I guess, if six is high, is because I don't think Bill Belichick would just have an idiot around him for that long. And I, I don't think Ryan Day would just hire an idiot. So I felt like there was enough there to, to do something with and to be successful. My biggest concern was recruiting. And what does he do? There is. Does he recruit? Because Jim Knowles doesn't really recruit. And what would Matt Patricia do as a recruiter? Everything that, all of the interactions we've seen with him, whether it's a camp or whether it's practice, he is having a ball. It's a lot like what Chip Kelly, you know, last year, every time you'd see him, he's got a big smile on his face and kind of getting rec by this. But the point about what the players can handle, I think is great because Greg Shiano, two years in a row, they, the defense would start to struggle. And I'd ask Greg Shiano, do you think you've put too much on their plate? No. And then like two weeks later, yeah, we've taken some stuff off their plate. It's like, that was two years in a row we had that conversation with Greg Shiano and now you've got an Ohio State defensive. Although Greg Shiano had at one point was dealing with like Isaiah Prior and Matt Patricia has Caleb down. So there's, you know, some give and take there. And. But I think what they're asking Arvel Reese to do is pretty amazing. And he's getting the job done. So they've got a lot of versatility that helps. What does Matt Patricia look like next year if he's still at Ohio State? And they don't necessarily have Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese perhaps, and certainly Caleb Downs, when things maybe are less malleable, what does that defense look like? But right now, I'll tell you, all of the, the X's and O's guys on, on the Internet and the Twitter and on Buck the Bucket Huddle message board are raving about all of the new stuff they're seeing and have been wanting to see. And then of course you have Michigan fans are like, well, we've been seeing this for a while now. This is what happens when you go to the NFL and you get somebody that can do something. And I think that's what we're seeing here now at Ohio State.
- [24:40]
Doug Lamoris
I hate it.
- [24:41]
Stephen Means
Yeah.
- [24:42]
Doug Lamoris
Were you negative, Were you a negative on the hire?
- [24:45]
Stephen Means
I really hated this higher. I really one. I was out of one. I really, really hated this hire. But I also acknowledge you got a ring on your finger now you can make a higher like this. I don't think Ryan Day could have made a higher like this 12 months ago before he had a ring on his finger. And a lot of it was what Bill said is, is some of that going to translate to the college level when you're dealing with 19 to 27 year olds apparently in college football now versus you're dealing with grown men. Right. But it was also, I just felt like all of his success was linked to one guy working for one guy who was also a defensive mind. And now he's going to come here where the head coach is an offensive mind. So where's Ryan Day spending most of his time? With his new offensive coordinator and new quarterback? You're kind of on an island. You're the head coach of the defense, as Ryan Day says all the time. And I was concerned about that after we talked to Ryan Day about it. I creeped up to a 3 as Gerd said, as you saw and you heard things, I was out about a five by the time June ended. I'm at an eight now. But I also want to see what things look like now that we have film on it because also the scenario was kind of perfect. He's a Super bowl winning defensive coordinator. He's playing up against a guy in Arch Manning who. Crazy. It's a Manning in this game too, who'd never played in an environment like this. I know he played against Mississippi state in a G5 school last year, but that's not Ohio State on the road in the number one, number three matchup. So new quarterback, a lot of new pieces on Texas's offense, some dudes on Ohio State's defense. And no one knows what Ohio State is doing because even with the practices we saw in the spring and fall, they were very basic. So we didn't see a lot of this stuff. Okay, Washington's seen this stuff. Illinois has seen this stuff. Penn State has seen this stuff. Michigan, most importantly, has seen these things. So as the season progresses and you get in the Big Ten play, how do some of these better teams on the schedule adapt to? Now we see what Matt Patricia defense at Ohio State is going to look like. How do we adapt? And I'm sure, some of these teams will have some answers for Matt Patricia going down the road.
- [26:47]
Tony Gerdeman
I do also think the 4 1/2 yards per carry is concerning. The 166 yards rushing is concerning. Arch Manning missing some of those passes that especially his second to last throw would have been a first down could have led to the game tying touchdown. I think he missed some plays that makes the defense look better. But was, was him missing those plays the, the, the result of what the defense was doing.
- [27:09]
Bill Landis
I just heard Stephen say that Illinois is better than Texas. So he's correct.
- [27:15]
Stephen Means
Sure. I guess that's what I said. All Byer is better than Manning.
- [27:20]
Bill Landis
There you go.
- [27:21]
Doug Lamoris
We're. We were a one, a two, a four and a six and now we're all eights. That's some good progress for Matt Patricia. All right, topic number four. How should Ohio State fans view what is happening at Alabama? And I'll admit this is just a topic for me to mock. Alabama culture fit. Culture fit. Culture fit. Culture fit. Culture fit. And if you don't think culture fit still matters, you were blind. You were ignoring the obvious. To me, this is Rich Rodriguez at Michigan. It doesn't mean Kaylin DeBoer is a bad coach. It means he was always the wrong hire at Alabama. I am zero percent surprised by this. But from an Ohio State standpoint, I've always said you can't only hire people from Ohio. There's a lot of great football minds who were born in the state of Ohio and you can go back in the history of Ohio State coaches to find that, but it is limiting. It is not. That cannot be a requirement. But I still think culture matters. Right? So Ryan Day didn't grow up in Ohio, but I think he understood this and he was prepared for this. And so if and when Ohio State has to make another higher and they will down the line. Ryan Day is not going to coach Ohio State forever. It is, it's another reminder to me of it's not just pick a guy who's won. I think it's more complicated than that. And I think, I think Alabama absolutely failed this test. Gerd, what do you think?
- [28:43]
Tony Gerdeman
I think this is Alabama finding its, its water finding its level. And this is Alabama before Nick Saban and the 25 years from Bear Bryant to Nick Saban, Alabama had six coaches. Only one of those coaches won 10 games more than once. And that was the, the gentleman, Gene Stallings, who won the the national championship. All six of those coaches won 10 games, but five of them did it once in their three four, five seasons or whatever. So this is just Alabama. Nine, 10 wins here and there. That's. That's what they are. What they were with Nick Saban. That's Nick Saban. What there are without Nick Saban, that's Alabama. It's a lot like Michigan is always just eight to 10 wins. That's, you know, generally what they are. This is what Alabama is. And they had plenty of opportunities between Bear Bryant and Nick Saban to become something. And, you know, you had Dennis Francioni this century leave Alabama freely for Texas A M because Texas A M was the better job and maybe because he's from Texas and all that, but he left. Now imagine somebody doing that today and maybe for some oil money, sure. But this is just Alabama and, you know, great good luck following Nick Saban and trying to keep it not even to Nick Saban standards, but from falling back to what it was before then. I mean, like, that's not even including Mike Price or Rich Rodriguez taking like two. Both those guys took the job at Alabama and then, you know, you know what happens. So that's. I think this is just Alabama.
- [30:23]
Doug Lamoris
Love it. Stephen, what do you think?
- [30:25]
Stephen Means
I think there's. There's two other ways I want to do this. One way is just poking at Alabama because I like poking at the SEC at this point. South Carolina fans already hate me. Let me just get another SEC team to hate me.
- [30:35]
Doug Lamoris
Why do they hate you? Why does South Carolina hate you?
- [30:37]
Stephen Means
I don't know, man. Because I wasn't one of the team. People just ranking SEC teams every single week and actually watched football games and not just FBI.
- [30:45]
Doug Lamoris
That's good.
- [30:45]
Tony Gerdeman
That's good.
- [30:46]
Stephen Means
Why weren't they more prepared for Nick Saban to leave? Because we. To your point, Doug, this is not the era of you have to go grind your way around the country before you go ready to take the big boy job. Oklahoma replaced Bob Stoops with Lincoln Riley, right, Brian Kelly, left, Notre Dame. And Marcus Freeman is right there ready to take the job. The team we cover, Urban Meyer, was gone and Ryan Day was ready to take the job. And now were there some elements early on? Of course. Hey, why aren't you more like Urban Meyer that maybe Kaylin DeBoer is dealing with, with Nick Saban? Hey, why aren't you more like Nick Saban? Sure, but we. Sometimes having the guy in your building might just be the new era of college football, of having the guy who's ready to replace you, especially when your legendary head coach is 70 years old, not 17 years old. Maybe you should have had that guy in the building already and we wouldn't be having this culture conversation. So that's the Alabama part of. Look at what the other blue bloods did. They had the guy ready to go. Ryan Day. Granted, some off the field things happened, but he had four game lead up to go. Okay, Ryan Day is ready for this. Urban Meyer can walk away and the program's in good hands. He's got to figure out Michigan, but fine. I think from the Ohio State perspective, Nick Saban retiring, the immediate was, oh, you can go get Caleb Downs. Oh, you can go get Julian Sand. I think the big picture conversation is there's an empty seat in college football with a crown in it, and maybe somebody can take that. And I'm wondering if Ohio State, where Ryan Day has this program now that he has this championship monkey off of his back, if he can figure out Michigan, if he's best suited to go sit in that seat. When you look at the receiver recruiting they're doing, I mean, even he is building a mentor with a mentee with Brian Hartline and Keenan Bailey. Those guys have been here for darn near a decade each, right? The way Ryan Day is building this program, it's not Urban Myers program anymore. This is Ryan Day. He won a national championship without a single Urban Meyer player on the roster. Let's see what this looks like. But I'm wondering if Ryan Day can position Ohio State to actually maximize itself where it's not just one national championship a decade anymore. Maybe it's two with a couple of final fours, but there's no king in college football. And I think Ryan Day with a ring on his finger is probably looking at that seat and golfing with Nick Saban and going, how about I take my crown.
- [33:03]
Doug Lamoris
First time? If someone on this show says crown, I'm gonna put the crown on. So thank you for saying that, Stephen. You said crown twice in that answer. And king, you get the show. Thank you for being here. Bill Landis, what do you think?
- [33:13]
Bill Landis
I would like to ask a clarifying question. Dennis Francioni, Dennis Farina and Dennis France from NYPD Blue, they're all different people or they're the same person?
- [33:25]
Tony Gerdeman
They're all different people. Only one of them showed his bare bottom on NYPD Blue. You can guess which one it was. Not Dennis Francione, but I bet he would have done it for a buck.
- [33:34]
Bill Landis
Okay. I just wanted to make sure we were. I had you said Dennis Francione, and I immediately thought about the guy who showed his butt on nypd, talk about culture fit.
- [33:43]
Doug Lamoris
Sipowitz leading Alabama. That I want to see.
- [33:49]
Bill Landis
I agree with what everyone has said. It's interesting to me that I don't know actually how strong the personal relationship is, but Ryan Day has referenced Nick Saban a lot in the last year, and I know they were like golfing partners for, I think the. The Pro Am Memorial this year. It seems like they have kind of like built a little bit of a back and forth over this last year or so, and to the point where it feels like Nick Saban is maybe mentoring Ryan Day to be. To be the guy that kind of fills his shoes and, you know, not the guy in Alabama. The program that Nick Saban built.
- [34:26]
Doug Lamoris
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You're not saying that Nick Saban is mentoring Ryan to go take the Alabama job? That's not what.
- [34:32]
Bill Landis
No, no, no, no, no.
- [34:34]
Doug Lamoris
My hill exploded for a moment there.
- [34:37]
Bill Landis
To fill the seat. Okay. He's a son of the north.
- [34:39]
Doug Lamoris
Ohio for Nick Saban. He wants Ohio. He's an assistant coach here. He loves Ohio State.
- [34:43]
Bill Landis
He loves the Buckeyes. I know. No, not. Not to go take over in Alabama, because then I think you're having the culture fit conversation again. If you try to put Ryan at Alabama, Ryan Day fits. Fits just fine in Columbus. And then how should Ohio State fans feel? Like, I. I don't know. Incredibly proud, I guess, that they're the only program that does, like, that doesn't fall off like. And we've talked about that a lot in many different ways. But here is the program that was the king of the sport for a decade now, seemingly in the wilderness. And who knows when they might get it back. And Ohio State just keeps on humming along over decades and decades and decades of multiple coaches that even the bad versions of that are still like nine and three seasons or. Or, you know, even the John Cooper era, like 10 win seasons where had this warp in different, you'd still be competing for a national championship. So I know that not every season is satisfactory to Ohio State fans, but the longevity of success for this program remains remarkable. And I think it should just be further enforced by what's happening in Alabama right now.
- [35:41]
Tony Gerdeman
The Alabama thing real quick in terms of once and not having anybody ready to take over. Once Nick Saban started agreeing to like big time home and homes, they should have known he was out of there. Like, that's not something he ever does. So once he's like, sure, let's do that. That sounds great. They should have been figuring out what they're going to do after that, that moment. Because there was no way he was going to take part in those because he never has. Other than what Penn State one time and in 2010 and 11, when Penn State was going to hell.
- [36:11]
Doug Lamoris
Nick Saban's list of like things, ways to make my successor fail. Number one, let's schedule an Ohio State home and home.
- [36:21]
Stephen Means
Making sure that somebody can't taint your own legacy before you even to me.
- [36:24]
Tony Gerdeman
That they have to fail coming out.
- [36:26]
Stephen Means
I'm awful. Because it makes you look better.
- [36:28]
Splash Sports Announcer
It makes you look better.
- [36:29]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [36:30]
Stephen Means
Jordan's happy that LeBron James finally figured it out and started winning. No, it was better when they were comparing him to Jordan.
- [36:36]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, that's why I carpet bombed cleveland.com before I left. I'm like, no one is ever going to cover Ohio State here again. And Stephen Means was like, oh, we will see about that, Mr. Lemurice. And he fought through Stephen. You're nowhere close to Kaylin DeBoer, my friend.
- [36:53]
Stephen Means
I appreciate it.
- [36:53]
Doug Lamoris
You are, you are exceeding. Bama would take you in a heartbeat.
- [36:57]
Stephen Means
I mean, listen, I have to follow you too. So I, I respect. Thank you very much. I'm doing my best.
- [37:01]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, he's no deboer. Last question, of course, is a wrestling question. I don't know anything about wrestling, but people on this show might. Tony Gerdeman. If there was a Royal Rumble among people who cover Ohio State, who would win?
- [37:16]
Tony Gerdeman
You know, I think people will generally talk about this being a size question, but of the 38 royal rumble of all time, only two have really been won by the biggest guy. So what you've got is you've got a lot of people teaming up against those guys. Sometimes you've got factions, whether it's like, like say cleveland.com got three guys there teaming up against everybody. But what happens? What happens when it's just those three last in the ring? Then what happens? So I think it's. It's the people who can last and just kind of drift into the background at times. Don't forget, Vince McMahon won this one time and he wasn't even in the ring for most of the time. I think he. He went under the. Underneath the ropes sometime. It was like maybe underneath the ring. So you can. There are various ways to win this. I think he's here right now. I think Stephen Means has a very good opportunity to win this because he's, he's quick, he's sneaky. We know this. Everybody talks about it on the beat. I think Steven's like, what everyone talks.
- [38:18]
Doug Lamoris
About, how I'm quick and sneaky. What?
- [38:22]
Tony Gerdeman
No, I. I think it's. It's. You've got teams of people that will team up against each other. I'm just fascinated to see what would happen. If it's just down to, like, one triumvirate of people at the same place.
- [38:38]
Doug Lamoris
Would sacrifice Gillis, like, along the way to be like, all right, like, you go take care of this guy. And then, like, I'll. I'll emerge at the end. Right. So, Stephen, do you think you would win?
- [38:47]
Stephen Means
Are you.
- [38:47]
Doug Lamoris
Your own answer.
- [38:49]
Stephen Means
That's cocky. Yes. So here's how I would play this one. Yes. I would sacrifice Gillis early, and I would sacrifice early on later. You gotta keep this big server on longer. That's what you gotta sacrifice both of them, but do it later. I think what would happen is, first of all, I think it's funny that the two biggest guys in the beat are about to be humble and go.
- [39:08]
Doug Lamoris
Listen, the big guys don't always win.
- [39:11]
Stephen Means
I think what would happen is everybody would try to take Gerd and Bill out first because they're the biggest people, and they would think if we get the big guys out, then it's equal. No, you're gonna tire yourself out trying to take those two out. And then I'm going to win because I'm going to watch you two take out one of those guys. One of you will fall. I won't say who, but whoever falls, I just hope I have enough energy at the end to sustain the blows I'm going to take. Because if I can get to the fourth quarter with Arch Manning, maybe he'll learn how to throw the ball. At the end of the game.
- [39:47]
Doug Lamoris
Two, vote for Stephen Means right off the top. Landis, are we gonna make this unanimous? Does everybody agree Steven Means wins the Royal Rumble?
- [39:56]
Tony Gerdeman
I see our South Carolina fans don't like him.
- [39:59]
Bill Landis
I'm not. I'm not picking Stephen because I think. I think. I don't trust his. I don't trust his B partners. I think Stefan and Gillis are coming after him and getting him out of the ring early. And then I don't think those two guys would know what to do once Stephen was gone. I think. I think Gerd makes a great point about factions that you do have to consider the outlets. Most outlets have multiple people covering the beef, but you can very quickly eliminate the few that are solos, like Cam T. Robinson from the Athletic. You're out of here, buddy. Sorry. You're not. You're not winning. It wouldn't be me. Because I think. I think you do get the big guys out first. And also, like, my. My partner would be Doug, and he'd be out of there early too, so that I'd mostly be on my own.
- [40:37]
Stephen Means
He has a sword, though.
- [40:39]
Bill Landis
He does have a sword. That's true.
- [40:41]
Tony Gerdeman
He's gonna go take a walk.
- [40:42]
Bill Landis
I think there's one. I think when you take. When you factor in the faction thing and having people help you sort of get to the end, and then it's sort of like every man for himself from your group. Maybe by the end. There's one answer. It's andy anders from 11 warriors.
- [40:56]
Doug Lamoris
Yes. Whoa.
- [40:58]
Bill Landis
He's a maniac. He's. And he's pretty strong. He's a former high school football player they called the Man Tank. He's your winner.
- [41:05]
Doug Lamoris
Wow. All right. Two votes for Stephen Means, two for Andy Anders. I'm gonna go with. I like how Gerd immediately brought in analytics about Royal Rumble. He's like, well, I've analyzed all 38. The largest guy's only won two out of 38. Is there. Pff. For professional wrestling? This is unbelievable.
- [41:19]
Tony Gerdeman
Guard Rey Mysterio Jr. Won the thing. It's. It's not just about who's the luchador of the beat.
- [41:28]
Stephen Means
Patrick Murphy.
- [41:29]
Bill Landis
Murphy. The Edge of Pat Murphy.
- [41:31]
Doug Lamoris
Everybody knows. I don't even know what we're talking about anymore.
- [41:34]
Stephen Means
I just. I just heard small guy with a mask on, Patrick Murphy.
- [41:39]
Doug Lamoris
So I'm thinking old man strength. So I did think about Steve Hell Wagon of Buck Nuts. Right? Watch out. But now, Gerd, this is the other guy I was thinking about. I think it applies both ways. There's also. There's old man strength here, but there's also the sort of like, why is he in the ring? Is he even a wrestler? He's not really on the beat. He actually runs the beat. And now why is he beating the crap out of everyone? I'm going with Jerry Emig.
- [42:05]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [42:05]
Doug Lamoris
Because I think he's got some Minnesota guns to go with that. Minnesota, Nice. That man can fill out a golf shirt and I don't want to mess with him. I think he's been long conning us for 20 years with being like, oh, Fellasa, one question each and then get him in the ring. We're done. So I'm taking Emig.
- [42:24]
Stephen Means
All those years of the follow ups, you weren't allowed to ask.
- [42:27]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [42:28]
Stephen Means
Finally comes to, hey, that's how Tim McMahon wins this thing, baby boy.
- [42:34]
Tony Gerdeman
I don't trust anybody from a place called Knife river firstly in something like that. But like I said, Vince McMahon won one of these things, so wouldn't, wouldn't put it past an SID to do something similar.
- [42:47]
Doug Lamoris
Jerry once ran with a group of people called the Knife River Boys. Is that not true? I think that is actually a true fact. And that would be like, and then, and then Jerry, I'm like, the Knife River Boys come out of the locker room all of a sudden and now they're the new NWO or whatever. The Knife River Boys. Would you. The crap would be totally into that. So congratulations to Jerry, fellas. I think we did it. I think we've, we've made sports media history. Tony Gerdeman, Buckeye Huddle. How can people find you? What do you got popping on the beat coming up?
- [43:20]
Tony Gerdeman
Yeah, you can also find me at the Buckeye Weekly podcast and you can also find me on the first episode of Win Doug's Money coming up. I'm looking forward to that one. And yeah, so buckeye huddle.com I'll be writing up a Michigan Monday after watching the the World Wolverines take it to the New Mexico Lobos 3417 and emphatic fashion. So you can find that@buckeyehuddle.com Steven means.
- [43:41]
Doug Lamoris
What you got going on with buckeye talk and cleveland.com yeah, cleveland.com man, go.
- [43:45]
Stephen Means
Check out all our stuff. We just came off a two week, just kind of run through Texas. So we're also trying to come up for air right now. But we started a thing this week, this Big Ten power rankings thing where we're trying to expand on some things that we typically do in the preseason to continue to have a conversation about the big picture, where the Big Ten is and where Ohio State fits into that. And obviously with an expanded playoff, that always works. Get the text, man. 614-350-3315 It's a two week free trial, man. I'm telling you, man, it's a good time over there. But go, seriously, go listen to Buckeye Talk. I know you guys love the Bill and Doug and Ari era. I know you guys love them. Myself, Nathan and Doug era. This is a new era. Some young faces, some young voices. And we're starting something new over here, man. We're trying to respect the past will also carve out our own future. So come join us, man. It's a good time over here. I have gotten crazier with Doug not around to reel me in. So sometimes I go off the deep end a little bit, but Stefan has become the person to reel me back in when I go. Everybody's crazy, everybody's good.
- [44:44]
Tony Gerdeman
Everybody sucks.
- [44:45]
Stephen Means
So it's. It's fun. I'm serious.
- [44:47]
Bill Landis
It's a good time.
- [44:48]
Doug Lamoris
Oh, that's wonderful. You got to have a real or though, right? Landis knows what it's like to be a realtor sometimes for a crazy guy. Landis, you doing anything for us this week?
- [44:55]
Bill Landis
I don't even know I'm gonna continue writing. We'll end up being a dozen different rewatch stories off of Ohio State vs vs Texas over on the substack page. Yeah, Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com all right.
- [45:10]
Doug Lamoris
We will plan to do around the shoe every Monday, and we'll see how it goes, but we certainly had a good time on this first episode. Follow Stephen, follow Gerd. Check out what Bill and I are doing on substack on here on YouTube. But most of all, thanks for being an Ohio State fan. This is a big, robust beat offering great coverage in a lot of different ways for every kind of Ohio State fan. So we're all lucky to get to do it, and we're so grateful you guys are here. For now for Tony, for Stephen, for Bill. I'm Doug, and that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug show.