Ohio State Around the Shoe: Offensive coordinator plans, Brian Hartline dropoff, Miami surprise

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Bill and Doug Show — Ohio State Around the Shoe

Episode: Offensive coordinator plans, Brian Hartline dropoff, Miami surprise
Date: January 5, 2026 | Host: Blue Wire
Guests: Dylan Davis (Delaware Gazette), Cameron Teague Robinson (The Athletic), Bill Landis, Doug Lesmerises

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Main Theme & Episode Overview

This episode tackles Ohio State’s future following an unexpected playoff loss to Miami, with the conversation centering on the Buckeyes’ offensive coordinator search after Brian Hartline’s departure, concerns about potential drop-off in receiver play, transfer portal strategies, and the national college football landscape as viewed through this year’s Final Four. The hosts, seasoned Ohio State beat writers and guests, provide sharp insights, debate strategic direction, and blend a light-hearted, fan-focused approach with big-picture analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Future of Ohio State’s Offensive Play Caller ([01:15]–[12:02])

Should Ohio State hire internally or externally?

• General Consensus: Go outside the program for an established play-caller, rather than promote from within.
• Dylan Davis:
  • "I think it’d be hard pressed to hire within and promote somebody after what we saw offensively. ... I just don't know if Ryan Day can afford to turn that over to another guy who's never really called plays before." ([01:45])
• Cam Teague Robinson:
  • "I don't think Ryan can afford to keep calling plays next year. ... You cannot have a first-time play-caller calling plays for them in that run." ([02:57])
• Bill Landis:
  • "Ryan Day needs his offensive version of Matt Patricia or Jim Knowles ... who can allow Ryan to be the CEO. That guy just isn’t in the building." ([05:33])
  • Advocates for an outsider with proven play-calling experience to inject new ideas and relieve Day.
• Doug Lesmerises:
  • Cites Ryan Day’s willingness to bring in someone like Bill O’Brien as an example and points toward NFL coaching movement as an opportunity.
  • "It's not like, 'Oh, well, I looked around and there was nobody worthy.' Somebody will be there." ([07:48])
• Recruiting Limitations:
  • The “non-recruiter OC” position is seen as palatable and even attractive to NFL candidates.

What kind of candidate fits?

• Experienced, proven play-caller; not just a scheme guy from a good staff.
• Ideal: Stability, but willingness to become a "rehab spot" for talented, available coaches (Nick Saban model) is viewed positively.

Notable Segment

• Bill Landis: "You can design all the great plays you want ... but if that young quarterback is getting sacked a second after he gets the snap, like, there's only so much you can do." ([19:18])

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2. Post-Mortem on the Loss to Miami ([12:29]–[21:34])

How surprised were the panelists by the Miami loss?

• Cam: 6.5 out of 10 — "I just really thought Ryan Day would have ... a better plan to go against that defensive line." ([12:29])
• Bill: 6.7 — "I had a really hard time seeing anybody score three touchdowns on Ohio State's defense, let alone Miami." ([14:39])
• Doug: 8 — “The 20 [percent chance of losing] is if they can't block them. And then they couldn't block them.” ([16:08])
• Dylan: 6 — “Not shocked ... but definitely surprised. That offensive line for Ohio State was, you know, prime to be taken advantage of.” ([17:24])

Key Observations

• Miami’s D-line dominance and coaching adjustments highlighted deficiencies on Ohio State’s O-line.
• Lack of offensive adjustment, especially reliance on silent count, was criticized:
  • "They went into the game knowing, like, we're going to start this game with the silent count. ... Just wild to me with a first-time starter at right guard." (Cameron, [20:58])

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3. Advice to Ryan Day for 2026 ([21:34]–[30:18])

Let the Offense Rip:

• Bill:
  • "Let it rip on offense. ... The idea of gaining control and balance is for Iowa ... not for teams that recruit the quarterback and receiver position the way Ohio State does." ([21:46])
• Doug:
  • Cautions against over-“NFLization”; wants to keep some college football unpredictability and looseness.
• Dylan:
  • Half-jokingly suggests Day donate to the “talent acquisition fund” for portal depth, but mainly: “Scrap the methodical, slow roll through the season—find your identity earlier by opening up.” ([26:38])
• Cam:
  • "Be open to outside feedback ... you have to get a [coordinator] who's not just one of your mentees." ([30:18])

Memorable Moment

• On playing slow:
  • "It was efficient ... But then you got to be perfect, and you get one holding call and your season's over." (Cam, [29:45])

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4. Brian Hartline’s Departure and Receiver Room Drop-Off ([31:14]–[41:43])

How much will WR performance actually drop?

• Doug: 25% decline — "That room was so good, it probably had sort of hit its peak ... regardless of whether Brian Hartline was staying." ([33:25])
• Dylan: 30% — "Hartline was elite at both recruiting and development; it's not fair to ask anyone to maintain that absurd standard." ([33:25])
• Cam: 20-25% — "Post-Hartline, can you close the deal when you're not relying on money? We'll see—Ohio State fans are not patient." ([35:57])
• Bill: 30% — "This was inevitable, as NIL and talent disperses ... maybe OSU is just one of a few strong receiver programs, not the one." ([38:34])

Recruiting & Development Shifts

• Consensus: Ohio State will still recruit and develop great receivers—just not at the extraordinary pace/level of past years.
• Key quote:
  • "Receivers aren’t going to wait to see who Cortez Hankton takes anymore." (Cam, [40:53])
  • "Maybe you have one superstar receiver instead of three." (Doug, [41:43])

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5. College Football’s Final Four: What Does It Say About the Sport? ([42:10]–[53:45])

How do you describe this year’s playoff semifinalists?

• Dylan: "Improbable but fun ... For a college football fan, it’s great—Indiana with a chance, Oregon with a chance, Miami as a sleeping giant." ([42:46])
• Cam: "The new age ... You have to hit the portal, pay for talent, and adjust. High school recruiting is only part of the equation now." ([44:12])
• Bill: "Transformative ... It's going to get much harder to identify contenders in preseason. Transfer models, head coach turnover, unpredictable upsets—wide open." ([48:03])

SEC Rant & Big Ten Validation

• Doug:
  • "SEC is mid ... The best team left is coachless. This is embarrassing." ([50:17])
  • "Iowa would have won the SEC."
• Dylan: "Huge stain on the SEC ... It’s hard to see how that narrative continues." ([52:28])
• Bill: "The idea that expanding the playoff just delays the inevitable? That’s been proven untrue." ([49:12])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You cannot have a first-time play-caller calling plays for [this team] in that run.” – Cam ([02:57])
• “Sometimes it can be as simple as that. ... If that young quarterback is getting sacked a second after he gets the snap, there’s only so much you can do.” – Bill ([19:18])
• “If you don’t know if you have the gas pedal when you hit the playoffs, it doesn’t matter.” – Dylan ([26:59])
• “This was fantasy land—five or six years of it; welcome back to reality.” – Doug ([41:43])
• “You have got to go get the guy who’s going to put up production for you. Culture is good, but you can’t hide from the portal.” – Cam ([47:16])
• “Impossible to predict now—there’s a coachless team in the semis!” – Bill ([49:12])
• “The SEC is mid. The best they have left is coachless.” – Doug ([50:17])
• “Iowa would have won the SEC.” – Doug ([53:32])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• OC Search Starts: [01:15]
• Should it be an outsider?: [02:43]–[06:39]
• NFL Fires & Coaching Carousel: [06:39]–[09:08]
• Surprised by Miami Loss: [12:29]
• O-line Issues & Silent Counts: [20:28]
• Advice for Ryan Day: [21:34]
• Hartline Departure & WR Drop-Off: [31:14]
• WR Recruiting Shifts: [40:53]
• Transfer Portal Final Four Analysis: [42:10]
• Transfer/Recruiting Impact: [46:15]
• SEC Rant & Big Ten Validation: [50:17]–[53:45]

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Takeaways

• Ohio State must aggressively pursue an outside, veteran OC—internal promotions or “play-calling apprenticeships” are not an option for 2026, given the schedule and talent.
• Brian Hartline’s exit means a significant, but not catastrophic, drop at receiver—return to “excellent” instead of “legendary.”
• Lack of adaptability hurt Ohio State in their Miami loss, especially on the offensive line and in-game planning.
• The transfer portal and new team-building models have democratized contention—preseason kings are no longer guaranteed playoff relevance.
• The traditional SEC superiority narrative is battered; the Big Ten is currently the more robust league at the top.
• Ohio State needs to remain nimble, modern, and willing to “let it rip”—both strategically and philosophically—if they hope to compete at the top going forward.

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For more coverage, follow Doug and Bill at Bill and Doug OSU Substack, Dylan Davis at Delaware Gazette, and Cameron Teague Robinson at The Athletic.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. It's been a couple weeks. Doug Lamaris and Bill Landis happy to be back and joined once again by two outstanding members of the Ohio State football beat. Dylan Davis of the Delaware Gazette, Cameron Teague Robinson of the Athletic, they've both been here before. We're so happy to have them back. Gentlemen, thank you for sharing your time on this Monday.

[C]

Always enjoy the invitation, fellas.

[D]

Thank you.

[B]

You guys hear, do you guys hear about the thing that happened? Thing? Ohio State lost.

[C]

Can you believe hearing about that today? And I'll probably still be hearing about it for several months after the fact.

[E]

So.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, I'd much rather be in Arizona than here right now.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So we're gonna go to Arizona in our minds and we're going to talk about what happened to Ohio State and also what will happen in the future for the Ohio State Buckeyes. But five topics, four guys chopping it up about the Buckeyes. Topic number one, Dylan Davis, we'll start with you. Brian Hartline is off to South Florida. He was the offensive coordinator for Ohio State this year. Ryan Day took over play calling in the playoff, but for 2026. Dylan, what should Ohio State do for its offensive play caller?

[C]

In my opinion, I think it'd be hard pressed to hire within and promote somebody within after what we saw offensively. Now, I know that's very much on the table. There are options in house, but I'd be hard pressed to to be support Ohio State not going outside of the program to find a true established play caller. But I also understand as well, like unless I'm mistaken, they have 11 coaches on the roster on the staff who are, you know, out. You're going to be out recruiting. So if they add an offensive coordinator, it's not somebody who could recruit for Ohio State and that's kind of an awkward spot to be in as well. So, you know, again, I know there are options within the program that they might take a Look at, you know, Keenan Bailey certainly is getting a lot of attention but I just don't know if Ryan, they can afford to turn that over to another guy who's, you know, never really called plays before and you know, I guess he could still elevate somebody to offensive coordinator within the program and call plays himself. But I don't think I like that idea of him returning to being the, you know, the, the, the long term play caller as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's the thing of like would you, if it's in houses, it, it, is it like it was in 23 with Brian Hartline kind of in name only, but Ryan Day is keeping the actual sheet in his hand. Are you turning it over, Cam? What do you think they should do?

[D]

Yeah, I agree with Dylan. I think it's got to be somebody outside the facility. I think they'll probably give Keenan Bailey an interview and kind of see, see, just kind of see where that goes. But I don't think Ryan can afford to keep calling plays next year. I don't think he can afford to give it to another first time play caller. I, I think of next year as like a, almost like a must have, not a must have teammanship, but it must have run. You get one more year, Jeremiah, you have one more year of Julian saying and J. Mars together. You cannot have a first time play calling, calling plays for them in that run. So I, I don't like Dylan said, I don't think Ryan can call plays. I, I think that was something that just didn't work in the combo. I don't know that he wants to call plays again. I think after the championship run I think he knows how much better it is to just kind of be the CEO, but I think maybe he will if he can't find a better option on the outside. So, but I do, I think he has to exhaust every, every avenue outside, outside of the Woody to find a offensive play call even if that means that they don't recruit.

[B]

So Bill, I, I, I think we're probably going to agree with Dylan and Cam on like what they should do. What do you think they will do? I'm going to make, I'm going to change the question feel like what is actually going to happen? Because we can sit here and say, well we think this and you know what I think, I think, I think Dylan brings up a good point with the recruiting thing, but I think they can work that out. I think if they had an offensive coordinator who didn't recruit, I think that would be fine. So I think there's an avenue to that if they want it. But do they want it? Will Ryan Day do that, Bill?

[E]

I think he will. I know that there is some discussion about. About not doing that. I. I just really think they can. I think it would be a tremendous mistake. Like, you, you already went through this season where Ryan Day had to help a guy learn how to call plays, and. And that just did not produce the best possible offense for Ohio State. They weren't bad, they were incredibly efficient, they weren't explosive, and their offense didn't show up in the three games they played against the three best defenses they face. And like that. That is just not where this offense should be, not with the talent that it has. So I don't think the offense needs an entire makeover. I think you can. You can very much operate within the framework that has been established by Ryan Day since he got here in 2017. But there's always room for fresh ideas. And I think that was kind of the idea when. When Ryan Day brought in Bill o' Brien initially. Right? Like, Bill o' Brien and Ryan Day have some scheme, crossover, right? But they're not like, off the same coaching tree, per se, and Bill o' Brien was going to bring some of his ideas and mesh them with what's here and what has worked. And, and I think, you know, try to put together an offense that. That had a little bit of a different flavor to it, a little bit of a refresh. And I think everybody needs to go through that from time to time.

[F]

But.

[E]

But also, Ryan Day needs his offensive version of Matt Patricia and Jim Knowles, the head coach on that side of the ball, who can allow Ryan to be the CEO of the offense. And that guy just isn't in the building. And it's not to say that one day, Keenan Bailey can't be that or Billy Fessler can't be that or Tyler Bowen can't be that. But I don't think they can learn how to do it on the job at Ohio State and then also take away from Ryan Day's duties to have him kind of like, groom that guy to do it. Let the new OC do that. That can be part of their job. All they're doing is calling plays, offensive game planning, and helping your young coaches grow. And Ryan Day can do everything that that's asked of the head coach. So I, I think as he sits down and continues to ponder this, and I do think what we see shake out in the NFL and coaching changes and who might be available will have some impact on that. I do think, ultimately they will bring in an outside voice, because I. I just. With what they were able to accomplish in 2024, with Ryan Day finally kind of stepping out of that comfort zone and bringing in somebody outside to oversee the offense, I. I cannot imagine for the life of me that he would want to go back to the way that things were prior to that.

[B]

I. I do think it probably requires seeing exactly what shakes out with the NFL. As we're recording this on Monday, it's firing day in the NFL. Raheem Morris in Atlanta has been fired. Pete Carroll and with the Raiders has been fired. Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland's been fired. That's just so far. And then just like all those staffs are getting shaken up. Right. So there's. There's going to be guys shaking loose. And again, I think the example here. I think we all agree that it should happen. I think the example, like, it's not about Chip Kelly's. About Bill o', Brien, like, Chip Kelly's a very specific thing. That's his guy. But he was willing to hire Bill o', Brien, who was not someone he'd known since he was 16 years old, but was just an expert. And so Dylan, like, I think. And if we want to throw names out, my example is like, I don't know, a guy like Bill o'.

[D]

Brien.

[B]

Yeah, like, whatever. Whoever that is, like, fired. Fired coach who's called plays before a guy, whether it's Brian Dayball or somebody else, there's going to be. Isn't there, like, Dylan, there's going to be an option there.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Isn't there?

[C]

Somebody will be available if, for whatever reason, the Ravens decide to move on from John Harbaugh. I'd be all in on Tom Monk and coming to Columbus if that's Ryan day one to go after. So.

[E]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Right. I mean, Cam, you follow the league like there's going to be somebody. Like, that's the thing. It won't be like, oh, well, I looked around and there was nobody. Nobody worthy of hiring somebody will be there.

[D]

Yeah. No, I agree. Also, thanks for. I'm a Brown fan. Thanks for breaking that. I did not know that happened this morning. But, yeah.

[B]

Cam was so upset about the Brown season, he had to go in and get anesthetized.

[D]

Yeah, they won yesterday. I had to go into the dentist. But, yeah, no, I. I agree. I think you're gonna see, like. I mean, there's. There's gonna be some NFL coaches who. Who are Good play calls and have good offensive minds who will be available. Obviously Day ball is one of the ones that sticks out, but I don't think Steve wants to come to college. But like, you know, he loves him some multiple tight ends.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, so.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

I think it's just a matter of like, does Ryan find the right guy and then also like which of these NFL coaches is like wants to go to college. You think it's like the NFL was done with Chip until he came here. Same, same with Patricia right now. So it's like a matter of like finding the right coach at the right time in their career as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

I do think the, the potential for it to be a non recruiting position would probably be enticing to NFL coaches.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. So like I think that could help Ohio State in that way. Do you guys think so? I wrote, I made a list of 35 possible people that it could be because I'm a maniac. 29 of them are not on the Ohio State staff. But some of them are like NFL guys who are like passing game coordinators and some of the better offenses in league who don't necessarily have play calling experience. Do you think it definitely would need to be somebody who has play calling experience or can it be someone who's been in the league for a while who understands how to organize an offense and hasn't exactly called the place just yet?

[C]

Yeah, in my opinion it has to be somebody who's actually done it, like who knows the game day operation of being a play caller. You know, how that works, has experience in certain situational, you know, aspects of it. I just think, you know, even if they have NFL experience, if it's still a first time play caller, I don't think Ohio State's accomplished what they were hoping to accomplish by going outside of the building. The one thing I'll add about this too is what, you know, for all the names we throw around these NFL guys, I don't want to see Ohio State hire someone who is, you know, in a year or two is going to go back to being, you know, an offensive coordinator or potential head coach in the NFL in Ohio State's back to square one like for the NVMe term. Obviously it'll be, you know, good for Ohio State. But you know, I'd like to be able to, I'd like for them to be able to find somebody with a little bit of stability there as well. I know Ryan Day does. That's obviously stability is to go for every coach.

[B]

I don't know if I'm, I don't know if I'm that worried about that. Like, if this becomes the Nick Saban.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Clearinghouse for recycled coaches. I'm not necessarily against that because I think to me the main thing is somebody that Ryan Day trusts and somebody that takes that load off Ryan Day without Ryan Day having to look over their shoulder. So as long as you meet those qualifications and then Bill, like you're saying, you bring in a little something of your own. If Brian Dabal wants to come here and get recycled. I mean, like, just like Chip did. Chip got 6 million bucks from the Raiders because he did a good job at Ohio State. Cam, you said the NFL was, was probably done with him, right? And now he's back. If you want to be a, if you want to rehab your career and help Ohio State have a good season, I don't know, I, I might be okay with that.

[D]

Yeah, I think, I think the thing with that too is like, I like, like you, Doug. I don't mind the Saban type of recycling coaches because it's still going to be Ryan Day's offense, no matter who the coordinator comes in. Like they're going to add some things, but it's not like you're trying to build a new offense from scratch every single year. So I think that would be, I don't, I don't think it'd be that big of a deal. But again, I'm curious. I think also, though, we have to take into account how difficult the schedule is next year. When you talk about like a first time play caller, like you have a first time play caller going to Indiana, first time Blaker going to Texas, hosting Oregon, hosting Michigan. And again, like I said, with Jeremiah's last year, it's just a, that's just a lot on the table. And I, I think if it was a first time play caller, Ryan Day would, I think his tendency would be to lean into the game planning and play calling aspect because of his sense of urgency against his schedule.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's right. The bottom line is Ryan Day has to believe in the guy. And I think probably the only way he truly believes in somebody, if he, if he knows they've done it before for a long time. All right, let's get to question number two. We will revisit this briefly on a scale of 1 to 10, Cam, starting with you, how surprised were you by Ohio State's loss to Miami? One is not surprised. Ten is very surprised.

[D]

I'll go, I go six and a half I, I, somebody asked me before the first round game said who should we root for, Texas or Miami? Picked Miami. I sound like I seem like an idiot now but I was just like in my head I was like, there's no way Carson Beck beats this defense. I was like, I don't care what Miami's defense looks like. There's no way Carson Beth gets his team. And I mean the pick six obviously hurt and, and kind of change that aspect, but I just, I also really thought Ryan Day would have some kind of plan or some kind of or better plan to go against that defensive line. It didn't seem like they really adjusted at all to the second half. So I just didn't think those things would happen. I thought the defense would hold up a little bit better than it did that first first quarter and then the last drive and then I just thought that Julian saying and Ryan would have would execute a better plan than they did. Not that mine is not good but I just thought they'd execute it a little bit better.

[F]

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[B]

Yeah, it's hard. I think part of our answers are also going to be shaped by like what Miami winds up doing, right? If Miami gets its doors blown off by Ole Miss, coachless Ole Miss will be like, oh my God, I don't know how to say at least to the guys if Miami was the national title, it's like they were a lurking monster that nobody, nobody realized what they were and Ohio State was the first test case. Bill, what's your number?

[E]

Yeah, similar. I have a 6.7. I I like cam when looking at the a Miami game prior to them playing thought that A M might be the better matchup. Aside from the fact that the game would have had to be played in a's backyard, just sort of like on the field. And then I watched the way that Miami's defensive line got after A M and, and changed my mind on that because I do think it turned out that Miami ended up being not only a bad matchup, but like, maybe the, the worst or like one of the two worst possible matchups for Ohio State in the playoff. If you want to take Texas Tech into account and what they're able to do on their defensive line. I, but I did think, like, I just had a really hard time seeing anybody scored three touchdowns in Ohio State's defense, let alone Miami. So, like, the number that Ohio State would have had to get to to win for me was always going to be pretty low. So even given that mismatch on the line of scrimmage, I thought Ohio State was going to be able to do enough offensively to win the game. And then I really did think they'd have more of a plan to account for, for that mismatch. And it didn't really seem like they did. They, they clearly trusted their offensive line to block those guys, and for a half a football, they, they really weren't able to on all but sort of one or two plays. So, yeah, I, I think the, the combination of the points that Miami was able to score, which still is not a lot, but against Ohio State's defense felt like a ton. And the lack of sort of offensive anticipation with what they were sort of going up against still left me pretty surprised by that loss.

[B]

Given the way you guys are talking about, I'm surprised your numbers aren't. I'll say I'm an 8 because I, someone asked me before, like, right as the game was starting, what percent chance, like Ohio State wins what percent of the time tonight I said 80. And I said the 20 is if they can't block them. And then they couldn't block them. But something that was happening in, in our substack chat, if you want to guys, go find us Bill and Doug osu.substack.com before the game, a lot of people, I think correctly, so we're starting to compare. They said it felt like the talk before the game. Tennessee last year, Miami this year, in terms of, oh, there's this defensive line. I don't know if Ohio State's going to be able to handle it. They might blow up the game. And there's like, Ohio State was fine against Tennessee. So then why, like, then why was it so unfine against Miami? And that's the. I don't know if that's more about Miami and Tennessee. I don't know if that's more about Ohio State's offensive line last year when they were also filling in, right. They were filling in for injuries for two guys and, and they seem to be able to handle that. And in this game the new right, you know, the new right guard starter, that was an issue, but there were issues elsewhere. It's just weird because like we all saw the thing but like to your point Cam was like, don't probably have a plan for it. And then it was like, nope, the thing that we all saw destroyed the game. So Dylan, where were you?

[C]

So initially when you think about this question, I kind of laid on a 5 like somewhere right in the middle. But I feel like that was a cop out. So I went with a six which is slightly more surprised than not surprised. I mean everything you guys said is pretty much nails it's. I knew Ohio State, you know, this game was going to come down to Ohio State's ability to keep Julian saying upright because if they could, there were matchups to be exploited in, you know, Miami secondary all over the field. And we saw it at times when Sam could throw the football, there were plays to be made down the field. So I knew it was going to come down to that. But I also knew that like that was a terrifying, you know, aspect for Ohio State because by, by far their biggest question mark was that offensive line you throw in, you know, a first time starter at right guard as well. You know, it just, it had all the makings of a disaster. And so that really worried me when I was watching that opening round game, you know, Miami and A M. I also thought that Miami would probably be the better matchup for Ohio State because to your point Cam, I just didn't think there's any way that offense or both your guys points really that there was any way that off from Miami would score enough points to really make it matter that their defensive line, you know, would get after Ohio State for a lot of the game. And even then, I mean Carson Beck didn't do enough to win that game really. But you know, it didn't matter because they scored seven points on defense and, and held I State to 14 points. So. So you know, I was surprised by it a little bit, but not shocked because I felt like that offensive line for Ohio State was, you know, prime for, you know, to be taken advantage of. Well, we saw it in Indy as well. I mean that you know, they lost to picked up title game that way and, and Miami was Every bit capable of exploiting them up front as well. And they did so surprised. Not shocked by any means, but definitely, you know, surprised a little bit.

[B]

It's. It's hard. Landish, you took. You took guff last year when you picked Tennessee to beat Ohio State, but was not part of that predicated on your questions about Ohio State's ability to block Tennessee in that matchup? And then it was like, yeah, they handle it. But then they didn't handle it this time.

[E]

I did. I didn't think they would be able to block Tennessee at all. And they. They certainly blocked them well enough in that game. And I did. The difference for Miami, for me was, you know, watching a lot of Miami just like, to prepare for that game. They were pretty static on the defensive line, as we discussed. Like, they weren't doing a ton of twists and stunts. And then I think against Ohio State, they kind of unleash that a little bit because they watched the Indiana tape, too. So that was. That was a. That was probably something that, that I, as I was analyzing the game, should have anticipated happening that. That I really didn't. But, yeah, I think it was just a. Just a total mismatch up front. And, and sometimes it can be sort of as simple as that. You can design all the great plays you want. You can have the best receiver in college football and a heck of a young quarterback, but if that young quarterback is getting sacked a second after he gets. Gets the snap, like, there's. There's only so much you can do. But I do think Ohio State, like, I think, and they did get to some of it in the second half, like the first half. I. I don't know that what they were trying to accomplish, throwing the ball lined up at all with the. The idea that they were going to be able to block them for long enough up front.

[D]

Miami did a really good job. Like, I just thought, like, Miami was just so well prepared. I mean, it was the third game and they knew what Ohio State silent cadence was. And to be fair, we could see it from the press box. It wasn't hard to see. But the fact that they never changed from that. And off the third snap, when Gabe Van Sickle couldn't even get off the line before Mazador was in the backfield was like crazy to me.

[E]

Yeah. So I thought it was great. I thought it was nuts. They won silent count in that game.

[D]

Yeah, it didn't make any sense. And that place is loud, but it's not loud enough for you to go side of things. It's not like for Ryan to say.

[C]

That they were pretty much, they went into the game knowing, like, we're going to start this game with the silent counters. It was wild to me. You know, maybe even if you already think that probably by, you know, series two, your second drive of the game, you're going to go to silent count to just go into the game saying, we're just going to start with this is just wild to me with a.

[D]

First time starter at regard.

[C]

Yeah. I was also really surprised that Ohio State didn't do anything to speed up the game. Like, when I watched Miami, one thing, they don't rotate a lot up front. And even when Ohio State did get to seeing some tempo stuff, you saw, you know, guys coming out of the game for Miami needing breathers. So, like, I was really surprised that it took that long to move to that stuff as well.

[E]

So.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. All right. Question number three. We'll start with you, Bill Landis. If you could give Ryan Day one piece of advice this off season, what would it be like?

[C]

Let.

[E]

Let it rip on offense. Like, like this, this idea of gain control and balance is for Iowa, right. It's for service academies. It's not for teams that recruit the quarterback and receiver position the way that Ohio State does. Like, I understand the motivation behind it and it did serve them well in 2024 when they had a veteran team. I don't know if it's the way you want to play when you're not a veteran team for myriad reasons. Like, one of which is like, player development. These guys need more snaps. So I think that that combined with just limiting their opportunities to score, like the rare times they got down this season doesn't make any sense to me. And, and I would hope that, that they realize that moving forward. Right. Like, they have as much offensive firepower as anyone in the country. And for whatever reason, they really kind of handcuff themselves when trying to, to utilize it to the best of their ability this year. So we know what it looks like when an Ohio State offense lets it rip because Ryan Day showed us what it looks like early in his tenure, both as an offensive coordinator and then in his early years as a head coach. And I think they need to get back to that identity. Like, they. There was a, a time where it felt like Ohio State was kind of setting the standard a little bit in the sport for like aggressive passing and overwhelming passing attacks. And I just like the last couple years they kind of lost their way with that. Now, like, it starts in 2023, because you're a little deficient at quarterback with Kyle McCord. But I would say, like, it even carried over to 2024 for parts of that season and then really did kind of hold them back a little bit when it mattered most in this season. So get back to the let it rip mentality, I think, is what my biggest piece of advice would be.

[B]

Like, play the Utah Rose bowl on a loop.

[D]

Yeah. Literally.

[E]

Yeah, yeah, something like that. Now, Yeah. I have seen people use that game as an example, and I like. My quick rebuttal is like, they were covering Jackson, Smith, and Jigba with a running back, so you have to take that into account. But, yeah, that idea, like, you know, use your best players to do the things they do well, do the best. Right. And like to be like a 50, 50 balance rushing passing team when you have this kind of passing prowess just, like, doesn't. Doesn't quite square with me. And. And playing slow certainly doesn't either. So I think just breaking. Breaking that mold would do a lot for Ohio State going into next year.

[B]

Okay, I'm in. It's. It's let it rip, but it's a little. It's a little more. Less schematic and more just about, like, vibes. And this is exactly what people like us talking into microphones would do. You take an example of something that a team does, and when they do it, you're like, yes. And then you look at the same thing that they did, and one result has changed, and now you're like, no. So I am wary of too much NFLization of the Ohio State football program. And in the moment, not having the band come in Michigan week and having it come in the bye week is like, man, that guy Ryan Day, he's all about routine. They are going about their business. They are serious about this. And then you guys were watching everybody. We were all watching it. You're watching old Miss Georgia play a college football game. That. It. It was insanity. That was absolute insanity. And it felt like college football. It was wild. You had quarterbacks turning their back to the line of scrimmage to make plays. You had fake punch. You had guys going for it. But there's also just, like, a vibe about the game that college football and the NFL are not the same thing. And so it's not really about, did the band come in Michigan week or not? But I. I think you're maybe on the precipice of going too far with making this like, boom, boom, boom. We do this, we do this, we do this. We do this in a way that maybe tightens you up, that maybe keeps you in a, you know, with blinders on, rather than being like, man, college ball's crazy. Because, like, Kirby Smart lost that game. And Kirby Smart kind of felt like, man, college ball's crazy. What are you gonna do? I called a fake punt for my own 29, and it would just be, like, be on alert for it. Right. That. That. I think there are a lot of things that you can't help with college football right now that are becoming more like the NFL, but there is. There's still kids, there's still a heartbeat I think of. It's a little looser, it's a little wilder at times, and you don't want to completely stamp that out of your program. And I think it was like, in a world where you've. Now they all have national championship rings where the Michigan losing streak is over, like, the things that would have tightened you up aren't there anymore, so go play your best. And if you lose, you lose. And that's like, you don't want to tell the fans, f we lost, what are you gonna do? We lost, we lost. Who cares? Not that, but just make sure that you're not. You're not tightening yourself up in a way and professionalizing yourself in a way that actually makes it more difficult to win. Be alert for it. Dylan, what would you say to Ryan Day?

[C]

It's kind of twofold for me. One was kind of the first one's kind of tongue in cheek, but I, you know, I kind of thought about donating some of his salary to the talent acquisition fund because the holes that are about to exist or already do exist on this two deep. Combined with what you alluded to, Cam, with the schedule that's coming up next year, is it wild to think Ohio State goes 9 and 3 next year? No, I don't think so.

[B]

Can I just say I. I welcome everyone who wants to predict Ohio State going 9 and 3. I've been carrying this load for too long. I would like to welcome everyone to the 9 and 3 Ohio State bandwagon.

[C]

And look, I mean, I'm not saying that's going to happen. Their IC still has plenty of talent to go 11 1. Hell even run. Run the table and go 120 in the regular season. But that schedule is a gauntlet next year. Everybody wants to talk about this SEC gauntlet. If there's ever a gauntlet of a Big Ten schedule, Ohio State has it next year. And so, you know, and the holds they have on that roster. They better go find some immediate impact guys in the, in the portal. And that's a whole nother conversation. So I said that at first, but then my second part of it was kind of echoed everything that Bill said. Brian Day's got a SCRA practice methodical, you know, methodically moving through the regular season approach to, to. For whatever reason that is. And I know there are probably a few reasons that go into that. One of them being this idea that it's a long season. They're just trying to, you know, to, to get to the playoffs. But like, you know, I know a lot of people are dunking on Ryan Day right now for the whole ide. The comment that he made about stepping on the gas when they needed to. Well, you know, that's all well and fine, but if you don't know if you have the gas pedal there for you, you know, by the time you need to do that, it doesn't matter. It's a bad feeling when you're ready to step on the gas and you realize the gas line has been cut and it's the playoffs and now you're bounced out of the, you know, out of the playoffs. So he's got to scrap that methodical, you know, approach to the season. And as Bill said, just open it up, let it, you know, let it, let it rip and you know, you know, let the chips fall where they may when you get to the postseason, but know what you have when you get to the postseason. And so those are the two things I landed on.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, I think that's good. Cam, you got any advice?

[D]

Yeah, the first thing would be to take a, to do one on one interviews with KMT Robinson from the Athletic every week. I think that would be beneficial to that program. Number two, I think is like you guys said, I think it's the opposite side of, I think has to be open to some outside feedback and I think that comes back to the office coordinator position. Like I think it has to be somebody who has some, a little bit of outside creativity that's just not going to run this whole like Ryan Day offense into the ground. I'm curious how they look next year with the, with their tempo. I, you have a second year quarterback. It's the first time since C.J. they've had a second year quarterback. So like you, you have the opportunity to open things up next year. You, you have, you cannot come in doing this whole like play methodical. And I, here's the thing. I don't mind the pace of play. If you're going to pay because you do that pace of play because you feel like it's long season, that's fine. But you also have to be able to go and mix in tempo during the season so that you know when you get to the postseason, you have the ability to make some tempo. Like they ran tempo at the end of that first half and people at halftime are like, oh, yeah, they're fine. They're gonna run tempo. And I was like, when have you seen them run tempo? Why, why? Why are you so confident that they're gonna run tempo and they haven't done it all year? And then they came out second half and they went right back to the methodical stuff and it was efficient. It was. But then you got to be perfect and you get one holding call and your season's over. So it's. So you have to find ways in times during the year to mix it in and gain some experience with that. My hope is that, like, another year with Julian saying allows them to open it up more and then a new coordinator. But yeah, it's just you have to be open to outside influence. And like, that means getting a coordinator who's not just one of your mentees who's been around forever.

[E]

Mm. Okay.

[F]

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[B]

All right, so we're kind of not diving like shoulder deep into transfer portal discussions just because things are fluid. And by the time you guys would watch this and listen to this, make sure follow Kamath the Athletic, follow Dylan at the Delaware Gazette, follow everybody who covers Ohio State. Everyone's going to be talking and writing about the the portal ads that Ohio State gets. So for question number four, it'll start with me. We're going to go to. What percentage of a drop off will there be in receiver play with Brian Hartline gone? And the thing that I think is a little bit difficult about this question is it's like drop off from what point? Drop off from Jackson, Smith and Jigba, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, with Marvin Harrison Jr. Waiting in the wings and like that kind of thing. Or I think if you looked at right now anyway, it's like, okay, well, Carnell Tate's gonna go to the NFL. Jeremiah Smith has one year left. Brandon Ennis is a veteran. But like you're not exactly sure, like who the neck you almost always knew in Ohio State, like who the next guy was going to be. I guess you assume it's Chris Henry Jr. And that's probably a safe assumption. It might be Quincy Porter, who has a true freshman this year, had some injury issues. You certainly could see it, but I think maybe you know it a little bit less than you have most years. So I will say overall, with Cortez Hankton hired, I do think they can keep up a decent chunk of the recruiting. I'm curious about how development goes, but also like, they've had some huge hits. They've also had some misses in the recruiting room. Brian Hartline did a great job. I'll say a 25% drop off. I don't think this is falling off a cliff, but I also think there comes a realization that that room was so good, it probably had sort of hit its peak, regardless of whether Brian Hartline was staying here. Because how can you, how can you keep going in a room where we once upon a time had Wilson, Olave, Smith and Jigba, Harrison and Abuka all hanging out on the bench together? That's, that's. Nobody could keep that going. So there would be like a drop off anyway. But then you lose Brian Hartline and it impacts you somewhat. I'll say a 25 drop off overall. Dylan, what do you say?

[C]

I said 30. 30 drop off. And look, Brian Hartline was elite, truly the best in the game at two different aspects that make that receiver room what it was. It was the recruiting. It was bringing elite talent into Columbus in the first place and then his ability to, to develop them as technicians at their craft and make them well rounded rug receivers. They're not. I, I don't really, admittedly, I don't know a lot about Cortez Hankton, so I don't want to sit here and speak on the guy. I'm, I'm somewhat familiar with, you know, some of the Recruiting that he's done, guys that he landed, you know, but I feel very confident saying that like he's not going to be Brian Hartland in either of those aspects. So naturally there's going to be a drop off in both of those regards. Now I don't expect Ohio State to, to go, you know, back to being what it was in the wide receiver room like pre heartline or you know, back in like, you know, the, the mid to late 2000s. But at the end of the day of course it's going to, it's going to drop off. You know, if Ohio State's next in line is Chris Henry Jr. And you figure that like he's going to. Well, I go back to that. I know Chris Henry Jr's next in line and we know that he's a very special physical gift. But heart lines brilliance wasn't just about bringing those guys in there. Those guys, while they might have been, you know, somewhat ready made and ready to contribute early on, you know, what makes these guys so good is by the time they're sophomore juniors, you know, or even seniors in some cases, you know, they were, they were elite at their craft. They weren't just great physical tools, they were, they were specimens. They were elite at the craft. That's where I'm not sure Cortez hanging could, you know, could do that. I expect Ohio State to still bring in elite talents Jameer Brown next year. Like, you know, like I still expect those guys to come to Ohio State and want to come to Ohio State, but what they look like from the day that they step on campus at Ohio State to what they look like, you know, as upperclassmen, that's where I question if that standard could ever be lived up to. And that's probably not fair to ask of Cortez Hanging because that standard is something we've probably never seen any position group in college football maybe. So that's probably not fair. So yeah, of course, natural drop off. I still expect Ohio State to, to, you know, draw in really good receivers and be good in that front. Playing in Ryan Day's offense is always going to be a draw for, you know, rece because the quarterback play is going to be there more often than not. But of course there's going to be a drop off.

[B]

Yeah, someone's going to have to do the evaluation of was this the greatest position group run in college football history? Cam, you want to do that? You want to take that?

[C]

Cam?

[D]

No, I'll let you guys take care of that. I'll let you guys?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah, I'm somewhere between 20, 25%. A lot of the same reasons you guys said, like, I think they'll still be able to recruit because it's Ryan Day's offense and they'll have quarterback play and they'll spread the ball around. I do wonder. I think the question is going to be the, it's, it's, it's not going to be are they going to be getting in the conversation with these recruits? And you talk, I'm kind of talking post Jamir Brown now, but like going forward, like, can Cortez close the deal on that? I mean, it's, it's such a different era now with money being thrown around. Like in Ohio State just doesn't throw around money just to do it. So, I mean, I was working on a story, it never really came to fruition last offseason about like, just what makes Brian Hartline such a good recruiter. And I've been talking to people down in South Florida and they were just talking about the relationships that he makes with these kids. And from an early age, it's just, it's a little bit different than what some coaches do. And so if you're going to still live in the relationship age and not go crazy paying these kids, can you make, can you beat out Oregon? You know, can you beat out Texas? Can you consistently beat those teams out? I don't know that they'll do that as consistently, but it's Ohio State, they'll get elite recruits and then it becomes like you said, can you develop them? I, again, I just, you just don't know what you're, what to expect in Cortez because it's such a high bar, like Dylan said. Dylan said. I, I thought it's like, it's like being the first coach after Belgium or like being the first coach after some legendary coach. Like, and it's really, it's kind of wild talking about a position coach like this. But it's like that first coach after that visit, after that legendary coach has a incredibly high bar and Ohio State fans are, are not patient. So I, I, I am very curious how this goes. He will, I mean, I think his first year will be a test trying to figure out who that number two guy is next to Jeremiah Smith, regardless of how the portal goes. But yeah, I'm probably around 20, 25%.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

And the one thing, and we've talked about this a little bit, guys, in a situation where the offensive line couldn't hold up well enough to take advantage, like to let Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate win you the game. And you have to balance your resources and how much you want to spend on rev share and nil on things like will Ohio State maybe spend a little less on receiver in the future because they feel like they need to spend more at other things. And then does that maybe lead to fewer five stars in the receiver room because you're trying to get a five star left tackle, that kind of thing. And that would be not even about Cortez Hankton, that would be about a strategy shift. But you just wonder. This was a very particular era with heartline skill and also the way the sport was and both of those things are changing and I wonder if the strategies will change. Bill, where are you?

[E]

Yeah, I'm probably 30. I, I think part of this was going to change anyway.

[C]

Right.

[E]

Like even if Brian Hartline had stayed because of the fact that Ohio State just wasn't going to be able to bring in like multiple five star receivers in every recruiting class. Right. I think that's just the new reality of the sport. But now it just becomes all the more difficult without Heartland because I think there was also an element to, or an element of Ohio State getting perhaps slight discounts at receiver because of Brian Hartline's status and what they do with that room. That, that I think kind of go out the window now. I still think Ohio State can be one of the better receiver programs in the country, but I, I think there may be staring down just sort of being one of a few instead of like the one and then everyone else is like trying to chase. Right. So I think there's still going to be a pretty strong baseline of success. It's nice that Brian Hartline has kind of left some, some parting gifts for Cortez Hankton here with Jeremiah Smith and Quincy Porter and Chris Henry Jr. And Jameer Brown and we'll see how he can build off of that. I, I do think it's possible that Hankton, who I think gets most knocked by LSU fans, for instance, for, for not holding on to some key recruitments at the end, according keys, I do think he has a chance to, to do that a little more like keep those guys more consistently at Ohio State because Ohio State does invest in receiver. And I, I think, I really don't think it'll stop as long as Ryan Day is here because of how much he values the passing game. So you know, will it be exactly at the heart lines recruiting level? Probably not, because that's an incredibly high bar. I think the Positional development could, could drop a little bit too just because if you look at Hankton's track record, there's not a lot of draft draft guys in there that he's recruited coach for their entire careers and then sent off to the NFL. So you have to have to recalibrate expectations a little bit. But I don't know that like I say 30 of you guys are like all in a similar position. I don't. That to me is not like Ohio State can't throw the ball anymore. I think that is just Ohio State kind of coming back down to.

[D]

The.

[E]

Programs that were on the tier below them when it came to receiver development and recruiting.

[D]

I, I once had a recruiting expert tell me, I don't remember what year it was. Maybe it was the 2025 cycle. It's 2025 is the one after Jeremiah, right? Yeah, that like it was, it was still early in the cycle and he said all the receivers are waiting to see who Brian Harlan takes.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

And then all the downloads fall off of that. Like you just don't have that anymore. Like, yeah, not, not a knock on Cortez, but like receivers aren't going to wait to see who Cortez Hangton tanks anymore. And again, some of that changes regardless because of that, because of just the age of cosplay wall. But it's just, it's just a different world of house it's in right now.

[C]

Just real quick, Doug, I just wanted the points you guys made. They're kind of similar points about the Brian Hart line being kind of the difference maker. If money's close or even if money. There's a size of a decent little gap there. But the Brian Hartline effect of going there, those kinds of battles that Ohio State may have won in the past, maybe they don't win them now, you know, and that's certainly going to impact recruiting as well. I agree. That's not going to fall off a cliff, but that's certainly going to have an impact because guys might take a little bit less money to go play for Brian Hartline and know that they're going to go play in the NFL if they're as good as they think they are.

[D]

So.

[B]

And I, I mean maybe it's. You have one superstar receiver at a time instead of three, you know, which is like you come back to normal, then it's like, okay, well there's one guy who's getting the target share and then you're trying to develop some other guys who are good players. But weren't you Know, first round draft pick kind of guys. So, like, this welcome back to reality, right? It was in fantasy land for, like, five or six years there. And it's like, welcome back to real good reality. But probably reality, which is.

[D]

For Ohio State fans who. Because now they just get more 13, 14 personnel stuff, you know, but everybody's.

[C]

Asking for, give the people what they want.

[B]

God, everyone just turned it off. We were doing pretty good. I think we were keeping the audience engaged there for a while. People just threw their TVs and computers and phones across the room. All right, last one. Number five. Dylan will start with you again. What one to three words would you use to describe the four, the final four teams in the playoff? We've got Oregon, Indiana in one semi. We have Ole Miss and Miami in another. What does this tell us about college football?

[E]

I would.

[C]

I would call it improbable, but fun. You know, look, and maybe this is an indictment on preseason polls. Everybody has their feelings on them. I certainly, you know, hate them. But if you go back to August and we. Even if we were sitting here doing the show and we talked about, you know, what we thought we might see this season and what the Final Four could look like, you know, I personally, I wouldn't have batted an eye at Oregon, although I still thought Oregon was the third best team in the conference. So it still would have been slightly surprising to me, but I wouldn't have batted an eye at that. But you wouldn't have had me believe in Miami. I wasn't buying Indiana, and I wasn't buying Ole Miss as the fourth best team in the sec. So it's improbable, but it's fun because of the storylines here, what we could see out of this playoff. Now, I say fun. You know, I know Ohio State fans watching this aren't having any fun. No fun, sir. But they, you know, but for. From a college football standpoint to, you know, Indiana having a chance to win their first national title, Oregon, same thing. Ole Miss. The storyline with Kiff and leaving, all the adversity they face and are still facing this postseason is fantastic. And then, you know, Miami, again, as one of those sleeping giants, potentially in college football, if they can, you know, get all the way to the mountaintop and what that might do for their program and what it might mean for them in college football for the next five to 10 years. Some great storylines here. So, you know, I know some people are going to poo poo, you know, some of these matchups, but I think it's. I think it's great. I think it's great stuff. I'm really looking forward to it.

[B]

All right, Cam, what do you got?

[D]

Yeah, I just, I said the new age, just so many. And again, not that Miami's a new age team or Oregon's a new age team and yeah, obviously is, but it's just the way that these teams are built now. It just speaks to how it's the ball. I mean Indiana and in Oregon and Miami especially like any Ole Miss, all four, I'm really just so transfer heavy. I mean, that's just kind of what it is now. I think you have to be involved in transporter. You got to pay, got to pay for these guys and. But again, it comes down to coaching. I think Signati's been maybe the best coach in college football the last two years. I think he's just done an amazing job there. But it does feel like a, a new age turn of, of the tide in college football that whoever wins this national championship, people are going to be like, okay, listen, you got to go to the portal because obviously coming into this I thought Ohio State and Georgia were the two teams, two best teams in the country. And I thought they were that because of high school recruiting and developing and then filling in the transporter gaps. But I was obviously wrong, as I've been wrong multiple times this podcast. So yeah, it's just, it's a new age of college football and champions, in my opinion.

[F]

Confronting high credit card debt can feel scary. But the good news is if you owe $10,000 or more in credit card debt, financial relief options are now available. National Debt Relief is currently offering debt relief designed to reduce what you owe. Fast tracking your way to being debt free. If you qualify for debt relief, you may be able to pay back significantly less than what you owe and save thousands of dollars. Imagine only paying one low monthly program payment you can afford and saving money as you become debt free. National Debt Relief has already helped bring debt relief to over 550,000 US consumers, earning thousands of five star reviews and an A rating with the Better Business Bureau. You're stronger than your credit card debt. Take the first step and visit nationaldebtrelief.com to see what debt relief you qualify for. That's nationaldebtrelief.com.

[B]

It it really is. The transfer conversation is so interesting. Like among the top 30 guys who played snaps for these top eight teams, Georgia, two of their top 30 were added in the transfer portal this off season. Bama was three, Ohio State was four, Ole Miss was 17.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Indiana and Miami were 12, you know, and it's just like. It is. You know, Bill and I talked about out of one of our substack shows that I think maybe up until this year you could be like, you're gonna bring in talent, but are you gonna build a winning team? And the Portals, like, no. Yeah, you are.

[C]

You are.

[B]

So does that mean that Ohio State should get 17 guys in the portal this offseason who are going to be major impact guys for 20, 26? No. But do you need more than four? Does Georgia need more than two? Probably like a definitive yes, Cam. Like, I, I don't know. That. That debate, I mean, in Georgia is way down. Georgia, barely. Georgia got Zachariah Branch and barely does anything else. I just can't live there anymore. Right.

[D]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think all the talk culture is a bit overblown now. I think you still have to have a culture, but you can't live on. Oh, man, this guy's really good. He wants to come here, but he's going to blow up our culture. No, you got to go get the guy who's going to put. Put up yards and put up production for you.

[C]

Look what Indiana is doing already as they're getting to ready to prepare for semi final. Look what they're doing in the portal already, which I know is going to piss a lot of Ohio State fans off. I'm as they wait to see what Ohio State is going to do and Indiana is already reloading for another quality talent as they're preparing for a semifinal. So all those questions and all those comments Ryan Day made about the calendar, which I agree the calendar is a mess, but Indiana's managing it just fine.

[B]

It is. It's like, can you sustain it? Can you sustain it? It's like.

[E]

No.

[B]

Feels built like a guy. Feels like they're kind of cannis. Sustain it, Bill? I don't know.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, they're. They are bringing in a nice transfer portal hall. I will say they, you know, they don't have to pay for a dozen top 100 high school recruits. Right. So there's. It's just a matter of how you choose to go about it. But clearly Indiana's formula is working and it looks like they're. They're not going to be slowing down anytime soon. I, I think, and I agree with a lot of, with a lot of what's been said already. I would like. Transformative is a word that comes to mind only. And, and I say that only because I think it's going to be more and more difficult to identify championship contenders in the preseason. Right. Like, I, I think for a long time in college football, we had a pretty clear idea of what a team that's capable of winning a national championship looked like. And I think a lot of that still applies. And I also think there's absolutely an opportunity for a team that is built primarily through high school recruiting to still win a national championship if they, if they really nail a class or two. But like, you have like that profile of team, you have the transfer heavy team, but there's, there's a team in the semi final that lost its head coach. Like what, Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that information.

[C]

Right.

[E]

But like they're there and then I think you, you know, there's the path you get. You can just get favorable matchups sometimes, if you're able to get in, that kind of spit you out into the semifinals. So I just think we're in a place within the sport now where you've really got to keep an open mind about who's capable of winning a national championship because it is radically, radically different. And there was this notion when we expanded the playoff that all we were doing was delaying the inevitable. We were just creating extra games and the same four or five teams are going to be the ones that are always competing for a national championship. And we're two years into this and like that is patently untrue. And I think it will continue to be untrue moving forward. So I think it's, I think it's good for the sport that it's as wide open as it is. But like this, this foursome of teams here in the semifinal, and there's big brands like Oregon, Miami are big brands and Indiana, like, is the best team in the country. But the, the fact that we ended up with these four teams and the various ways they built their rosters and the ways they got there just, I think show us that college football is going to be a little harder to predict, really, probably significantly harder to predict than it ever has been.

[B]

So we have improbable but fun. The new age transformative. And I will say, when I did this, I originally said give me one word. But then I realized the thing that I wanted to say is three words. So I expanded it to three so that I can say SEC is mid day. Their last remaining team is coachless. The Coachless Rebels beat Kirby Smart. Would Nick Saban have lost to a coachless team? And finally, I didn't read the whole story yet, Cam. One of your brethren at the Athletic, Bruce Feldman, wrote a story about, I guess at the SEC sucks now. But like, the quote that he put in the tweet to promote it was like some coach, I assume, saying, like, why does everybody act like the SEC is a bunch of effing monsters? They say stink or that was a paraphrase. And it's just like they do. They're so mid. And you still have Ohio State loss. That's a huge upset. You still have the Big Ten champ. You have the Big Ten team last year that was number one, undefeated the whole year that's only lost to Indiana. They're both standing strong, representing the Big Ten. And this SEC team is quarterbacked by a Division 2 guy who is supposed to be the backup and doesn't have a head coach. And that's the best that you have to push out to the world. It's embarrassing. So I hope that's dead. And like the ACC is like, see, respect us more. Respect great like, narrative for the acc, the sec. Like there's the. For real. If this, this is embarrassing for the sec, that this is what's left. And the only reason it's left is because they played each other. And if the seatings would have gone like a little bit differently. And this is not to make any excuses for Ohio State, but if it was Miami versus Georgia and Ole Miss versus Ohio State, I think we might be staring at Miami, Ohio State right now, right like this, like Ole Miss in Georgia. I think Ole Miss found a weird Georgia team to beat. I just think. Oh, just wanted to end the show ripping the SEC because they don't. They deserve it. Is anyone here going to stand. Dylan, you're going to stand up for the sec?

[C]

No, not at all. I might not take it to the the extremes that you might, but.

[B]

This.

[C]

Has been a stain on the SEC without question, certainly punctuated by that just colossal disaster in Pasadena for Alabama and then Georgia, who I thought was one of the three teams that were capable of winning a national title. Getting beat by an Ole Miss team, that's still very good. But as you said, coachless, facing so much adversity to get beat in that game. It's been a huge thing on the sec and I would hope that that narrative is dead. If it, if it's ever going to die, it should be dead now. And that's not to say that it's still not a fantastic, complex conference, but sure. But if that narrative is ever going to die, it's it's now because what the Big Ten's doing potentially, you know, obviously right there with the chance to win a third straight national title. But just where they're at even today as we have this conversation, it's. Yeah, I don't understand how that narrative continue to go on.

[D]

So Tennessee, Tennessee will be a Pre season top 15 team. Yeah.

[C]

And that's the thing. These narratives are driven not by, you know, not by these programs and these athletic directors and coaches maybe to some degree, but yeah, it's driven by our colleagues, so to speak.

[D]

So, so bad.

[B]

Iowa would have won the sec. Iowa would have won the sec. That's where I am officially on this.

[E]

I cannot believe I did not see through the last question and just realized it was a reason to tee yourself up. To say the SEC is mid.

[B]

It is hard. I wish other people were teeing me up, but I'm just making up questions and teeing myself up. This is what happens when you, when you write the questions for the show. Dylan and Cam, thank you so much for your time. Dylan. Dav where can the folks read you? Listen to you, find your coverage of, of everything college football in Ohio State.

[C]

Find my stuff on del gazettE-E-L gazette.com and certainly on Twitter as well at Dylan Davis. D I L L O N Davis 56 put a bunch of video on there. Obviously with the off season, there won't be a lot of video on there from. Because we won't be at the Woody very much but heading into spring practice to be a lot of video again. And yeah, all my links and stuff and so.

[B]

Yeah, very cool. Cam, where can the folks find you?

[D]

Yeah, on Twitter @cj_, teague and then at the. At the athletics website. Like Dylan said, we won't be. I don't know when we'll get back to the Woody. Might be a minute. Yeah, we also don't have an SID at the moment, but just. Yeah, but there'll be transit portal stuff. Trying to find some, um, some other stuff to write about also. You know, March, March, April kicks up, we got someone's basketball coverage. You know, I'm always excited about that. So yeah, we got a lot going on over there.

[B]

Very cool. Bill, we doing anything?

[E]

No, we're going to take the next three months off.

[B]

Okay, I'll see you guys do that.

[D]

I would like to work with you guys. Yeah.

[B]

Chief Content Officer Bill Landis. No, he makes us work. Bill makes us work. So we'll be covering the portal and writing about other stuff and doing shows and we'll try to do we hadn't done around the Shoe for a couple weeks here just because it was the holidays and we were traveling for the playoff and that kind of thing. But we would like to get back to around the Shoe every Monday, even through the off season. So we'll keep that going the best we can. But we certainly we can't do it without the contributions of the great members of this beat like Dylan and like Cam. So thanks to you guys so much for your time. For now for Dylan Davis for Cameron, Tig Robinson for Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lay Maurice and that was around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.

[G]

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