← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State beats Illinois 34-16 as the Buckeyes stay undefeated: Postgame Show
00:59:04
The No. 1 Ohio State Buckeyes handled No. 17 Illinois on the road on Saturday, as the Buckeyes won their 10th straight game in Champaign. The Ohio State defense forced three turnovers and Jeremiah Smith and Bo Jackson each caught touchdowns as Ohio State won 34-16
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- [00:02]
Modelo Recruiter
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- [01:01]
Bill Landis
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show, a post game edition as Ohio State moves to 60 with the win over Illinois. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis with you. Landis. I think some interesting things to talk about. I thought this was sort of like a different style of game for Ohio State in a way that I find kind of interesting. And I'm going to compare college football games to podcasts in a moment, but I do want to run through some of the things that I thought we thought Ohio State did really right in this 3416 win against the number 17 team in the country. And again, like we're in our chat with our Substack subscribers during the game, there's some frustration. There are maybe some things to be frustrated about, but it also is a reminder. Fifteen years ago Ohio State went on the road against the number 18 team in the country, coached by Brett Bielemo. When they were number and lost, they gave up a special teams kickoff return to open the game and just never got it rolling. And you know, this wasn't a night game at Illinois at Landis. We weren't there. But I don't think you take for granted a road win against the top 25 team.
- [02:07]
Doug Lemorris
No, certainly not when you win by this kind of margin either. Yeah, you know, yeah, there are things to parse for sure. It wasn't Ohio State's A game, especially offensively. To not play your A game, go on the road and beat the number 17 in the 17 team in the country by almost 20 points. I'm not saying it was the greatest game I ever saw. It certainly could have been worse. And it wasn't.
- [02:32]
Bill Landis
One thing that I I think again is worth keeping in mind is is sometimes it's hard to have a handle on Ohio State opponents. Alabama played at Missouri today and Missouri had the ball at the end of the game. It was driving for A what would have been an attempt at a tying field goal down 27, 24 and Bo Pela kind of threw to a covered guy to the extent that another receiver on the play was jumping up and down and he threw to a guy and threw a game ending pick with like 40 seconds left when they were near midfield and they Missouri blew that opportunity. But Bama gets a three point win at Missouri and we just all have to be careful. We can't live in a world where Alabama goes on the road and gets a three point win at Missouri, where Missouri is marching down the field to try to tie the game in the last 30 seconds and Ohio State is never in danger at Illinois. When I think Illinois and Missouri are basically the same, I think that is a very reasonable comparison. We cannot live in a world where that's a good win for Alabama and a frustrating win for Ohio State. And sometimes we are very on alert for those kind of things.
- [03:39]
Doug Lemorris
Well, I, I think it can be frustrating for Ohio State fans, right? They can be frustrated with how the Buckeyes played. I think like from a national narrative perspective, sure. I don't know what people are saying about the Alabama game, but I think Ohio State fans are within their rights to like watch the way this game played out and think to themselves like, boy, that seemed more, more difficult than it needed to be because I think it was. But again, good teams win when they don't play their absolute best or even close to their absolute best than Ohio State did.
- [04:05]
Bill Landis
I, I really am going to have a theory of the case here for you in a second. I'm going to see if you, if you agree with it or not. Let's, let's talk about some things that I think stood out for Ohio State. One is we talked about it a lot on our pregame show. We do a pregame show almost every week on our Substack channel if you guys want to check that out. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com We do it two hours before the game when the injury report comes out and the injury report came out at 10am this morning and Lorenzo Styles Jr. Ohio State slot corner was on it. The result is Jermaine Matthews winds up playing slot corner for most of today and Devin Sanchez, the five star true freshman winds up playing outside for most of the day And Jermaine Matthews tipped a pass early that led to an interception and then forced a fumble on Luke Altmire with a, with a slot corner blitz later in the game. And Jermaine Matthews, playmaker remains Something I think that it's. You count. You can't count on it necessarily every single game, but, like, you know, that guy's wired that way and I really like him in the slot. It gets him a couple yards closer to the action involved in the middle of the field, where if he tips a pass on the outside, what's going to happen here? He's all over the guy. It's tremendous coverage by Jermaine Matthews and he tips the pass and Peyton Pierce, because it's in the middle of the field, is there to intercept it. And then when he. We've seen him come on corner blitzes before when he's coming from the slot, he's that much closer to things and can make things happen. We can talk about Devin Sanchez in a second. But, man, do I like J. Ray Matthews, playmaker. And man, do I like him inside.
- [05:41]
Doug Lemorris
He's really good inside. Yeah, there's a. There's a larger conversation to have there about that. But he, he played great in, like, a fairly tough matchup that, that interception. So he was in a good position. I thought that was a pretty well thrown ball. And Jermaine, like, used his, like, trail hand, the hand, like the hand was behind him to like, stick it in there and punch the ball out and it got knocked up in the air and then the blitz was great. He had to, like, navigate around some traffic to that. It was, it was pretty well done. I'm. I'm not surprised one bit that he got put, like, kind of closer to the ball and started making more plays. I think he's. I think he's their most disruptive corner, right? Like, not this was it. Maybe their most disruptive defensive back. If you want to talk about, like, getting your hands on the football and maybe some takeaways might. Might come of that, right? Because it's not like Caleb Downs is a bunch. Gets a bunch of takeaways. He does a lot of other stuff really well. But the takeaways are not necessarily something that he does all that often. So it gave him a lot to consider moving forward. I think with the way that he played in this game and particularly in this matchup against this quarterback and these receivers, in a way, they like to operate like it was always going to put whoever was playing nickel in a spot where they had to be good. And Jermaine Matthews was pretty good for most of this game.
- [06:51]
Bill Landis
Devin Sanchez on the outside, it felt like, you know, they were just in their flow of their offense. Luke Altmeyer is trying to take whatever is available One read, two read, three read. I don't know that they're saying like, let's target the freshman. But I thought even the play they.
- [07:03]
Doug Lemorris
Threw at him on the first play.
- [07:05]
Bill Landis
They did throw at him out on first play. I thought the ball that in the end zone, that was originally ruled a touchdown and then ruled not a touchdown because Justin Boek was out of bounds. But they called Devin Sanchez for pass interference on that. I thought even that was an example of. Devin Sanchez is right there. He gets his arm in between the receiver's arms as he's trying to make the catch. He got a little tug on the jersey like as the play was happening. But I thought that was a freshman exactly in the right position and being physical at the point of attack in a way that almost like, I don't know, man, like you, I'd take it. I'd take it. And I thought it was a little bit emblematic. I thought Sanchez did that and I thought all game the Ohio State corners were just in guys jerseys. And there was a lot of conversation with Gus Johnson and Joel Cloud about like Davis and McNoson is grabbing people. I actually think he's grabbing people maybe as much, but in a smarter way, which is my. Why he's not getting as many calls this year.
- [08:07]
Doug Lemorris
But yeah, you're allowed to put your hands on guys.
- [08:10]
Bill Landis
So. So what he would do in the past, he would grab people as they were making breaks, like at the top of a route as they're making a break. He would grab somebody right when the officials looked at him. If you're running stride for stride with a guy and you're just getting up on him a little bit, I don't know. I think that might just be playing defensive back or maybe it is against the rules, but if they don't call it, is it against the rules? So I thought it was like you just saw Ohio State DBs right on top of guys all game. And that's. They still completed some passes, which I think is mostly a credit to Luke Altmire. But it just was a reminder, I thought, of the physicality of the Ohio State corners. And again, you just like you. You don't ever almost see guys like running free and you see other guy. Other games, you just see guys. It's like, well, that was a breakdown. Well, that guy got smoked. Like just. It's a regular occurrence in football. It doesn't seem to happen with Ohio State that much.
- [09:02]
Doug Lemorris
What was completed seemed to be primarily stuff in the middle of the field against zone right and I understand at times it can be, like, a little frustrating to see that happen, but when you are a zone defense, which Ohio State is like, like, sometimes, like, there's going to be areas to attack, and this is a veteran quarterback. Like, I'm not surprised that he found some. Some places to complete some passes. But when they, like, tried to challenge Ohio State's corners, like, down the sideline and, like, the kind of plays that I think can be almost, like, truly backbreaking, I. I thought that the. The DB set up really well, and, like, everything can look like pass interference if you convince yourself of it.
- [09:41]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [09:41]
Doug Lemorris
Actually, I thought a lot of the conversation about that was. What's the right word for it? Stupid. Like, just, like. Just like, like, oh, I wonder if that was a penalty. I wonder if that was a penalty. It's like, if you, like, watch football, like, one time, like, you can. You can do the same thing on the offensive line. Right. That was a whole. That was a whole. That was a whole. Like, they're not going to call everything, and you're allowed to play physically. And, like, did Davis and Igmanosa get away with one or two? Probably. So did Illinois. There was a ball to Max Claire over the middle of the field where a safety was grabbing him around the hips before the ball got there. And nobody called, nobody threw a penalty on it, because guys should be allowed to play physically. And when DBs are allowed to play physically, especially Davis and Igbos, and he's. He's pretty hard to. To complete passes on. And Ohio State secondary generally is hard to complete passes on. And, like, even the ball in the end zone, I guess it was the right call. He did grab his jersey, but the receiver also, like, fully extended his arms and pushed Devin Sanchez away from him.
- [10:34]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [10:34]
Doug Lemorris
I just kind of thought that was two guys battling for a ball. Not dissimilar from the touchdown that Texas scored against Ohio State in the first game. It's like they were fighting. He and Jermaine Matthews are fighting the whole way down the field, and the guy caught the ball and no one threw a flag, and it was great. So, like, sometimes you'll get the benefit of the call, and sometimes you won't, I guess. But I. I think the physicality provided that it's played with, like, good positioning, which I thought it was, and more often than not, like, turning your head, which I. Which I thought was okay. I think Ohio State's dbs will be on the right side of that more than they were last year.
- [11:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So I thought that I thought it was a good sign against a good, I think, like a good passing attack. Right? I mean, is that a reminder that, like.
- [11:13]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, it is a good passing attack.
- [11:15]
Bill Landis
Luke Altmeyer, Hank Beatty, like, this is. Luke Altmeyer is a very composed, accurate. You know, you talked a lot about the RPO game in our preview, and you saw that he wants to make those throws in the middle of the field. He's just very comfortable doing that. And so he averaged, I think, in the end, 5.6 yards per attempt. He winds up 30 of 44 for 248 yards. So I like. I. That's. That's pretty good. This is like a reminder, again, the Washington, Illinois game is going to be really interesting to get a read on both those teams. It's going to be really important to the Big Ten race. But again, this is. This is a pretty competent Illinois passing attack. And I thought the way the, the way the Ohio State corners played was really good. I also want to ask you, offensively, I want to ask you about your guy, Nate Roberts, the fullback, who we had been discussing all year. Wouldn't it be good to get a fullback? Because then if you have a fullback instead of a converted tight end who's a true freshman and doing something he's never done before, not only can he block, but you can hand him the ball. And then they handed the ball to Nate Roberts today as the fullback. And I guess he's learned how to run the ball since he got to Ohio State, which is.
- [12:25]
Doug Lemorris
It was close.
- [12:26]
Bill Landis
It was.
- [12:26]
Doug Lemorris
It was close. And he was standing up straight when he got to where he had to get to. So, like, I don't know. You're not going to convince me that a tight end should play fullback. That's what they're going to do. But, like, I'm not going to agree with it.
- [12:37]
Bill Landis
There is too much standing up straight from Ohio State ball carriers when they hit a defensive player, is it? Not if it's not Bo Jackson. I thought. And I thought the. I thought Gus and Joel completely blew it on that. And I. I'm not 100 sure Nate Roberts got the first down on that call. And they were just like, it's a first down. They didn't know who had it because the offensive line pushed into the end zone. I don't think Gus knew where the ball was.
- [12:59]
Doug Lemorris
I didn't know where it was. It was first either.
- [13:01]
Bill Landis
They didn't review it. They didn't show it. I. I swear, I'm not sure he got it. But they tried it and as much as you want to find them a fullback, it feels like they think maybe they found a fullback. This is what I think actually was the biggest thing offensively. And Ohio State did have this in the second half against Washington. They were only had 7, 3 at the half and they came out in the second half and went touchdown, field goal, touchdown on their first three drives. So like, it's not like they hadn't been put in a spot before, but I, I thought for Illinois to come out and go down the field to open the second half on a 12 play, 75 yard drive that took up almost five minutes and Ohio State gets the ball back and that is right at a spot. It's like right at a, at a spot. It's not a. The game's not in the balance. But that made it 20 to 10 Ohio State. And if Ohio State goes three and out there, or if Ohio State has a loose turnover right there, you, you are, you are starting to approach the danger zone, right. If you let that happen. And instead Ohio State goes 14 plays, 63 yards, 7 minutes and 52 seconds for a touchdown drive. And that again, if you can want more big plays, you can want, you know, that's take advantage of the explosive possibilities of this offense. That was a very professional drive to suck up half a quarter and extend it back to a 17 point lead. That I thought was a test for Julian Saying on the offense and they passed it.
- [14:36]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, well, that drive also featured their only explosive play of the game because when I give credit where it's due, Brandon Ennis starts that with a nice kick return, 37 yards and it's like, okay, here comes Ohio State and then the first place CJ Donaldson runs up Tegra Shabola's butt for a loss of one fumble.
- [14:54]
Bill Landis
I mean, it wasn't a fumble, but it was the biggest ball carrier but collision at Ohio State since J.T. barrett and A.J. alexander in the 2016 Michigan game. Yes.
- [15:06]
Doug Lemorris
Yes. Yeah, not quite the same stakes, but yes.
- [15:10]
Bill Landis
But it was a face on a bus, no doubt about it.
- [15:13]
Doug Lemorris
Yes. Born out of shocker. Ohio State ran the ball on first down. But anyway, on the second down, Julian Saying threw that nice ball down the scene the Max Claire for I think 22 yards. And that's the only play in the game for Ohio State of more than 20 yards. And then I kind of got rolling from there. And then also within that drive is the play where Jeremiah Smith gets hurt and it's like, honestly, honestly, like if Jeremiah Smith gets hurt, he's on the sideline you don't know what his status is. I think it's second down and seven. If you would have said, what's going to happen here? I'm gonna be like, they're gonna make sure Jeremiah's okay. They're gonna run it twice and kick a field goal. And instead they put three tight ends on the field. They got big. They ran it for eight yards on a nice counter play with C.J. donaldson, got a first down, got able to reset, continue the drive. J.J. eventually came back, everything was fine. But like, I thought, that drive was great. And that drive ending with a touchdown, no matter what it looked like was, was would have been a great response. But to have that happen in the midst of it and then still finish with a touchdown, I thought was, to use your word, like mature. I know you wrote about that a couple games ago, like Ohio State's a pretty mature team that like doesn't, doesn't flinch necessarily. I thought that was a pretty good moment to not flinch because if you kick a field goal there, Illinois feels like it's won and very much in the game.
- [16:31]
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- [17:47]
Modelo Recruiter
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly. Macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action. Looking to reward full time Fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [18:45]
Bill Landis
So the saying ripped down the seam to Claire on the second play of that drive was huge. I thought the third and one where this is before JJ got hurt, where saying was flushed out to his right and hit Will Kaczmarek on the move for seven yard gain on third and one. I thought that was huge. I thought this sneak, he checked that right? Like 4th and 1. He changes the play and they're noting how there's a big gap in the, in the defensive line there and he sneaks it right where there is no Illinois defender. I thought that was a great play and so that, that was like again, execution, execution, execution in what this is my big takeaway otherwise I thought was a pretty ragged game.
- [19:32]
Doug Lemorris
Ragged, right.
- [19:34]
Bill Landis
And I thought because I probably have six or seven examples and not even talking about the. All the 30 yard punts where, where Ohio State's especially offensively was just not as precise as it usually is. And one of those is. So they did have a play on the important touchdown drive where on second and seven you talked about that CJ Donaldson run when they ran it. Did you? It was Tegra and Daniels both pulled from the right side and they both got guys and Donaldson again, Donaldson's not making anybody miss sometimes. Like if you get excited about Donaldson, it's just because there was a hole there and he got downhill and he hit it and maybe that's all they tell him to do. He's not getting much on his own. But he hit that hole and it was, was it not a thing of beauty? I think, I think Tegra got the guy like sort of on the left and, and Daniel sort of took the inside guy and then there's just a lane to hit an 8 yard gain. It makes you happy.
- [20:31]
Doug Lemorris
GT counter. My favorite play. Yeah, this by the way, to your point about not being precise or whatever, whatever word you want to use. They're all, they're all apt. This has happened before. I'm, I, I was thinking during this game of the 2022 game against Iowa that Ohio State ended up winning like 54 to 10, I think it was. But early in that game was like gifted short field position and settled for a field goal both times. And then Ryan Day afterward was almost talking about being on being put on a short field, like it was a bad thing. Like, you get thrown out of your rhythm, you're not expecting it, and you have to figure out how to adjust to it. And I'm not making excuses. I'm just like, I just remember him talking about it. So, like, Ohio State was on a short field four times in this game. They had four drives start from a 38 or closer.
- [21:25]
Bill Landis
And like, crazy, because we've, we've talked about all year how Ohio State's been behind the eight ball and field position and they got gifted stuff today.
- [21:32]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah. And like, I just, they just didn't handle it well. Like, I think, I think you might have like all these ideas about what you want to do because they even came out throwing a little bit right on the opening drive. But then you get put on these short fields, it's like, well, I guess we'll run it because we're like kind of already close to the end zone anyway. And then I just think you get. I'm not trying to make excuses because I think there are some, some questions that need to be asked about play calling. You and I weren't there. We'll ask on Tuesday. But I think part of it is like, like game State putting Brian Hartliner, Ryan Day, like a little bit in between about what, what they felt like they should be calling. And then the result is the offense just does not look crisp really, for. At any period during the game.
- [22:12]
Bill Landis
So they did, they threw on five of their first seven plays and they got in the red zone and went, run, run, basically run. And we will talk about that. That's part of the raggedness to me. But I thought one of the things that showed up in the raggedness is on this drive, as you said, when JJ got hurt, they pull Max Claire and Austin Seraveld on this reverse to Jeremiah Smith and they're both out in space and they let a defensive back split them. And Tea Kettle Jeremiah Smith and he lands on his head on his face and you can see he wrenches his back. And I, I think if you run that play a hundred times, I'm not sure how many times Claire and Saravel let that dude split them because it was like they weren't prepared for it, but somebody's got to take that. And I, I just thought that that was an example of it to me, of like, it's a good play call. We're get. They're getting Jeremiah Smith the ball in creative ways, and then Max Claire, who continues to improve as a blocker, and Austin Serbel, who's about as solid as they come. Just let a dude take out the feet of the best player in college football and flip them upside down. It's like, what was that?
- [23:19]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, just a, just a bust, right? Like, I, I, I think I, I didn't go back and watch it to see what else was happening, but, like, my first blush of it was like, Max Claire should have blocked the guy because you can kind of see, like, Sarah Veld, like, kind of peel off in a different direction, and then Claire tries to, like, turn around and go back to the guy. And I just think sometimes on those plays, you get guys like that in space, and there's like, there's fewer guys there to block, or sometimes there's nobody there to block. And confusion can be born out of that. And I think, I wonder if that's what happened there. Like, they were expecting to get out there and have, like, a linebacker for Sarahville and, like, a safety for Claire, and then, like, there's just a corner by himself. It's like, yeah, like, also too on run plays, it's like the idea is sort of like to make corners tackle. But yeah, if one of those, I think if they would have even put a finger on that corner, I think Jeremiah Smith probably would have scored on that play. Yeah. And then instead, he gets almost taken out of the game.
- [24:14]
Bill Landis
So. All right. Other, other ragged things that I would assign to raggedness. The first drive, shovel pass on third down after again. And there, I think there can be some frustration from Ohio State fans here when they, they throw the ball down the field. They throw the ball on five of the first seven plays to get down the field. Then Bo Jackson has a big run of 17 yards, and then they go run, run, shovel pass, field goal. The shovel pass just, like, didn't ever happen. I didn't even know that there was necessarily a missed block in there. It just felt like there was a line, a linebacker right there for Claire.
- [25:06]
Doug Lemorris
That feels like a play. So, like, you see team, teams in the NFL, you see run that a lot in short yardage down on the Reds. Like, the Eagles do that a decent amount. The Chiefs do it all the time. But I don't think you ever run it trying to get four yards. Like, it was third and four and they got two. The thing that was puzzling for me is, like, they ran that, got two and then kicked, because that felt to me like a Play you call on third and four knowing you're going to go for it on fourth and whatever it is, it's like I don't know where they, they were expecting Max Claire to like break through the hole and run for an eight yard touchdown there. I, I don't, I don't know why that would be the thought process.
- [25:41]
Bill Landis
And then the other thing here is like I, I say this all the time, but it's like you're in like kind of a do or die situation there and you're put C.J. donaldson and Max Claire because there's C.J. donaldson's in the game as sort of like a pitch option for Julian saying I don't know if that's just a, if that's just a for show pitch option or if he actually could pitch that there on the read or it's the shovel packs to Max Claire. And so a Bo Jackson's not in the game on third and four at the 10 yard line.
- [26:09]
Doug Lemorris
He get the carry on second down though, didn't he?
- [26:11]
Bill Landis
He did get the carry on second down. So I want to talk about that in a second. But like why is he not in the game on third down? It's not third and short. Why is C.J. donaldson in the game on third and fourth ball security. You think that's a, you think that is a lingering concern for them with Bo Jackson?
- [26:24]
Doug Lemorris
Yes. Yeah, because he supposedly fumbles in practice. I guess. I don't know if that's not, I, I, I'll like Austin and Burn talked about that. Right. So like I'll give credit where to see like they talked about that he had the ball that he fumbled out like almost out of the end zone and whatever game that was earlier this year. And then they did not like when he reached the ball over the goal line last week. So I don't know that they trust him with that.
- [26:52]
Bill Landis
But there's no like so whatever that is. C.J. donaldson's not drawn anybody on the fake. I don't think he's threatening anybody there. And then you're going to shovel inside to Max Claire. I think Carnell Tate's not even on the field and Jeremiah Smith's out wide. So again you have I think three potentially very dangerous offensive players and you get down to a do or die situation on third down at the 10 yard line and none of the three are involved in the play. Yeah, I just, I don't know what, I don't know what that plan is.
- [27:18]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, I mean you could, you could run a version of that too, where, like, it's Carnell Tate or Jeremiah Smith with the ball in her hands. Like, I don't mind a little. I don't mind a little short yardage, red zone creativity. It's just a question of, like, does the right person have the ball in his hands?
- [27:32]
Bill Landis
So some other ragged things. So they had like this swing pass where they lined up Jeremiah Smith in the backfield and then motion, like he went out and then Julian Sam threw in the swing pass and Jeremiah Smith wasn't even looking.
- [27:43]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, I'm not sure what that was.
- [27:44]
Bill Landis
Supposed to be because Joel Clatt was like, well, maybe he was expecting a handoff. There was nobody in the backfield. There was nobody to hand the ball off to, which was among the things that I was like, what are Joel and Gus talking about? Did you get a lot of that today? Like, what are they doing?
- [27:55]
Doug Lemorris
Not their best effort. Yeah. They are clearly very bored covering Ohio State. And then like, they were just wrong about a lot of stuff. Yeah, there was another. There was another instance when Joel Clut's like, here we go. Ohio State's in its dime package. And like, there's three linebackers on the field. Like, what are you talking about?
- [28:11]
Bill Landis
I don't. I don't know, man. So there was that. And then they had the play where they completed the pass to Max Claire, but it was wiped out by a penalty because Max Claire and Jeremiah Smith both lined up on the line of scrimmage. And Jeremiah, since he covered him, Max Claire was not ineligible. That was, you know, there was a.
- [28:27]
Doug Lemorris
Loss of down, by the way. I didn't know that.
- [28:29]
Bill Landis
No. And it was like, they didn't even, like, lost. I didn't know that it was lost down. No. Because then they showed it, like, they said it. But then the score graphic was wrong for a little while. They had the long completion of Jeremiah Smith for 33 yards. That then was overturned on the review because the ball kind of did come out at the end. And it's.
- [28:45]
Doug Lemorris
I thought it was a catch.
- [28:46]
Bill Landis
It's not like, it's not a drop by Jeremiah Smith, but he's the best player in college football. And you figure, like, most of the time he probably squeezes that and doesn't let it pop out and make it even a question. The bad two minute drill at the end. It's like, we had sort of talked about this. Hey, like, maybe they'll get some opportunities. So they got the ball back at the end of the first half with 105 and they just like ran three plays and punted it like they didn't come close to anything working there. They threw a screen on the first play of that drive. And you said that's. That's a typical thing they do in that situation.
- [29:21]
Doug Lemorris
It is.
- [29:21]
Bill Landis
I.
- [29:22]
Doug Lemorris
If I could go back and tally up every two minute drill of the Ryan Day era, I bet the play they open with the most of some kind of screen. Yeah.
- [29:29]
Bill Landis
Okay. And then they had the throw to the end zone where Julian sand was maybe looking for Carnell Tate to be ready for a back shoulder, and Tate was taking the route more into the end zone. And then they were talking to each other as they were coming off the field and the broadcast reported was talking to each other more on the sideline. And like, that's kind of a lot.
- [29:46]
Doug Lemorris
So that's. I don't know. There was another play action pass they called in the red zone where Carnell Tate and Max Clayer ran into each other.
- [29:51]
Bill Landis
Oh, yeah. Ran into each other. Right. So that's probably like six or seven things where there's a lack of precision from the offense that I don't think we have seen or felt really this year at all. I think the main thing with the offense has been, hey, are they taking advantage of the deep shots when they're there? Why aren't they trying it more? But what they do do is march down the field in a precise way. And this is just. They were a little loose today.
- [30:16]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah. I wonder. They were loose. They were not precise. And like, they. They kind of didn't have to be because they were the beneficiary of really good field position. So like, that helped mask it a lot, clearly. I wonder if it were like a normal game, if they would have ever gotten shaken out of that a little bit. I'm. I'm not sure, but it was clunky. I don't. I don't think. I would say Ohio State has played clunky in any game prior to this one, but their office was definitely clunky in this game.
- [30:44]
Bill Landis
And then the other side of that is Illinois has three turnovers. Jermaine Matthews the pick. That's Jermaine Matthews making a play. Jermaine Matthews the strip sack. That's Jermaine Matthews making a play. The other fumble is the running back gets his leg bent back up underneath him and he's like, oh, my God. And he just drops the ball in excruciating pain. And Ohio State gets the ball as a first play of a drive. And then the punter went down to pick Up a low snap and kneeled. And as Joel Klatt said, that's a good call. Like, that's like a. That's like a turnover. They lost Illinois, like Ohio State gained 60 yards of field position on that because the guy kneeled down for a loss of 14 when it should have been a 45 yard punt. So that's 59 yards of field position. So like, like Ohio State. So I thought there's two things at play here. One is Illinois made mistakes. Like they got some bad breaks and also made mistakes. And it's a reminder of how perfect this is a good Illinois team. But even a good team has to play almost perfect to have a chance against Ohio State. And on a day when Ohio State wasn't perfect, neither was the opponent. And the results are three score game.
- [31:47]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, and Illinois too, is a team that like turnovers have been like baked into its success. They were one of the better turnover margin teams in the country because Luke Almayer, prior to today had not thrown an interception. And their defense was good at like punching the ball out and getting fumbles and stuff. So like Ohio State kind of flipped the script on them like in a lot of ways by, by feasting on turnovers and really good field position in this game. But yeah, you could feel it like once it. Once. The thing that was good was turning the turn like the, the interception and the fumble into touchdowns. Right. They were on the, they were on the short field four times. And like the, the punt on the kneel down punt only turned into a field goal. You could feel that, that fact that those turnovers turned into Ohio State touchdowns. Like you could feel the pressure on Illinois like that, the need to be perfect. I think. And like to Illinois credit, Luke Almayer did make some throws and. But even like the first, I'm jumping again. Like that first red zone stand. Even the second one when I actually scored, like, I felt like you could feel Illinois pressing. They just happened, they just happened to crack through and get one on fourth down when they probably pulled their best trick play out of their, out of their back.
- [32:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [32:58]
Doug Lemorris
Just so they could get a touchdown.
- [33:00]
Bill Landis
Somebody did that the other week. That's not the first time I've seen that play this year where you hand off to somebody, then how you hand it off to. Does an option pitch.
- [33:07]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, I saw. I can't remember who it was, but I saw. Yeah, last week. The week before too. Yeah.
- [33:11]
Bill Landis
I can't wait to see Nate Roberts do an option pitch to C.J. donaldson. That's just going to be Ohio State.
- [33:17]
Doug Lemorris
Persona one yard run on fourth and two. You ever seen.
- [33:23]
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- [33:29]
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Easy.
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- [34:39]
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- [35:36]
Bill Landis
But listen, so Ohio State's first eight possessions, four touchdowns, two field goals, two punts. One of the punts is off the screwed up two minute drive. So like this is like this is a good opponent on the road. That's pretty good. Four touchdowns, two field goals on your first eight drives. Like that. So again like in the like. Oh if you think like I wish they would have done that. And there are things, of course there are. That's, that's pretty effective and taking advantage of things that Illinois handed to you is part of playing football. So I think in the end I think I would give this Ohio State win like an 8i, I don't know if there are fans coming this like out of this with a 5 or that they're worried about something. I, I don't come out of this pinpointing things that it's like that's gonna get you. That's. Now that we can talk about punting.
- [36:27]
Doug Lemorris
Sure. Yeah.
- [36:28]
Bill Landis
But that's not my overwhelming takeaway from this. I think it's more about like, you know what, you, you went and played a pretty good team on the road and you were never really in danger.
- [36:40]
Doug Lemorris
I think I mostly agree with you. I think that the thing that'll be hard for people to get over is like what in Illinois looked like against Indiana. But like, I just think you're gonna drive yourself crazy doing that because that wasn't, that was like the worst I think Illinois could possibly play and it was down to like its seventh best defensive back in that game and maybe the best Indiana could ever play. It's like teams, it's college football week to week. People, people bring different levels. Ohio State to not bring its best in this game and still won on the road, I think not, I think like in convincing fashion. So yeah, I think it's, it's a solid win for sure. It's a but. But within the solid win. I do think you pick at some things a little bit. Like, and for me, like, that's mostly a play calling question, I think, but okay. Otherwise, I don't know that there's like a ton to nitpick.
- [37:26]
Bill Landis
So my, my point about this, comparing college football games to podcasts is I do think sometimes you can get in a rhythm of being too perfect sometimes and you're like, here's the rundown. Here's what we're going to talk about. We did everything right. That was a good show. And Ohio State through five games was like, here's what we do. Maybe you think we're not explosive enough, but it's all part of a plan. We're going to lean on the defense. The defense is impenetrable. Julian saying is poised and mature. We get, you know, we're getting Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate involved. All this is happening. And almost everything that you could question Ohio State about or ding Ohio State on is really, they're doing it by choice. Right? And I think like maturity and precision are. We're two of the buzzwords. Through the first five games. This was a little ragged and sometimes like it you just gotta shake it out and sometimes like you have a ragged game and it's like, man, I'M sure glad that punter kneeled down. That sure helped us, man. I don't know what. Sure. God, that guy got his leg ripped off and he just fumbled in pain. We really could have used that because otherwise we weren't then maybe it prevented us from getting into a rhythm. Maybe it gifted us free yards. I don't know. But then you can. I. And I don't think it's just like Ryan Day is going to have stuff to yell at him about. I think you can just come out of it and, and it. When you're ragged a little bit, then it reminds you that you don't have to be perfect. And I think the reaction to ragged can be all right. It's a reminder to ourselves that in the pursuit of perception of perfection, in the pursuit of perfection, like, you know, hey, like have a. Let's, let's, let's let her, you know, let's have some crazy stuff happen sometimes. And so I'm not trying to silver lining this, but I, I thought it was like a weird game that they won by three scores and, and maybe it's a. They're like, they were like professionals and today they were. It's more like schoolyard ball. It was like, hey, Jeremiah, I'm going to throw the ball. And Jeremiah's like, what? When's the ball coming? And then it's like, hey, Max and Austin, you blocked that guy. And it's like, whoops, we missed him. Watch out, Jeremiah. Flip. Sorry. You landed on your head. Just like a little bit of that. And like Bo Jackson got hurt and Jeremiah Smith got hurt. It's like, are we getting to the point where Doug is like, it's great that Bo Jackson and Jeremiah Smith got hurt. It's the best thing that could have happened to Ohio State. No, of course not. But it reminded everybody maybe that football's not easy, but also you don't have to be perfect to try to win it. I don't know, I just, I am in favor of occasional ragged.
- [40:05]
Doug Lemorris
No. Well, I think you have to experience with the assumption that it's going to come for you at some point. Because it comes for everybody.
- [40:11]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [40:13]
Doug Lemorris
When, when it does, like, you gotta, you gotta win and.
- [40:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [40:17]
Doug Lemorris
And they, and they did. Right.
- [40:18]
Bill Landis
Like and comfortably when.
- [40:20]
Doug Lemorris
Comfortable and comfortably. Yeah. And frankly, like, it might, there might become a time where it's. It's a little worse than this. Especially like on like, like they were not very good on often or very crisp on. Crisp was probably the right word. I wouldn't say good crisp on offense, but the defense, like, bailed them out.
- [40:38]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [40:38]
Doug Lemorris
Like, there'll be games where maybe that doesn't happen. It's a little more angsty. And you actually do find yourself in a game in the fourth quarter. Like, all that stuff is going to come for this team. It's the stuff you have to get through if you want to try to win another national championship. So this just. I don't know, in some ways, kind of felt like a box checked. Right? Like, they. They had not. They had not played a sloppy. Might be too strong of a word, but, like, they have not had a game that really felt as, like, out of sorts as this one was, especially offensively. And they just kind of grounded their way through it and it didn't look pretty, but they figured it out and they won by almost three touchdowns. So, like, what is there really to be upset about?
- [41:15]
Bill Landis
And I really. I really do think in the end, Illinois and Washington are both going to win at least nine games and Ohio State beat them both on the road.
- [41:22]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah.
- [41:22]
Bill Landis
So I. I love that.
- [41:24]
Doug Lemorris
I'd love to say it was a good crowd, but Fox turns down the crowd noise, so I won't be able to tell you.
- [41:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah, Fox, I wasn't it so weird when Bo Jackson scored. Oh, well, let's talk about the call. But then I actually want to talk about that play. The swing Pastor Bo Jackson for a touchdown that was just followed by 12 seconds of silence. I don't know if Gus is confused sometimes. I don't know if he's tired of calling Ohio State touchdowns and refuses to acknowledge them. Because then when Illinois scores, he's like, ow, look at Illinois. And then Ohio State scored.
- [41:51]
Doug Lemorris
And he's like, the comparison between his call when Bo Jackson actually scored and when Justin Bowick did not score, like, and it was clear he didn't score, was pretty jarring. Yeah.
- [42:04]
Bill Landis
It's so weird. It's so weird. And then at the end, they're like, by the way, after we kind of stumble through this game, the Big Ten is in its golden age and Ohio State's the best program in the country. But anyway, sorry. We screw up the broadcast for three hours.
- [42:19]
Doug Lemorris
I don't know.
- [42:19]
Bill Landis
I do. I. People believe that.
- [42:21]
Doug Lemorris
Didn't people feel this at the Indiana game last year?
- [42:23]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [42:23]
Doug Lemorris
Like, Gus was just. Like, Gus had no juice. It was a top five game and Gus had no juice. Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:29]
Bill Landis
And I do think you noted in the chat, I'm calling you out. I'm calling you out for it. And people, I. I have talked about my relationship with Joel Cloud at times over the years. And by relationship, I mean, I talked to one time, but so we did the mock. The mock college football committee like eight years ago, and they just took some glamour shots of us and we just make a lovely college football couple. That's just all I'll say about that. So I still think he's handsome, but I do think all these broadcasters doing podcasts during the week makes them less sharp on game day. And I'm not even joking.
- [43:04]
Doug Lemorris
No, they're talking too much.
- [43:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they're talking too much. Because back in the old days, if you're a broadcaster, all week you studied and watched film and talked to people and thought of all these brilliant things to say on Saturday. And now Joel's doing a show every day and Kirk Herbstreet's doing a show, plus he's doing NFL and Greg McElroy is doing a show. And then you're saying all your good stuff on Tuesday and then you get to the game on Saturday and it's like, oh man, Jeremiah Smith is good. It's like, what are we doing here? Did you study at all? So I don't think broadcasters should be podcasters. Leave the podcasting to the podcasters and get ready for Saturday and you can clip this out and play it it and Joel can look at it.
- [43:49]
Doug Lemorris
I don't disagree. Yeah, I think it's, there's, there's been a. I used to really like the Fox broadcast and maybe it's just over saturation, but I think there's been a sharp decline in the quality.
- [43:59]
Bill Landis
And by the way, like, if you're thinking to yourself, oh, I don't know, did Ohio State kind of muck around on Saturday? Northwestern just threw like a 50 yard touchdown pass in Happy Valley to go up 107 on Penn State.
- [44:12]
Doug Lemorris
Oh my goodness. But UCLA is a juggernaut though, so maybe.
- [44:15]
Bill Landis
Would UCLA win the sec? Would UCLA win the sec?
- [44:20]
Doug Lemorris
By the way, Indiana's beating Oregon.
- [44:24]
Bill Landis
UCLA would beat Ole Miss. Ole Miss is number four in the country. I'm.
- [44:28]
Doug Lemorris
I, yeah, they just dorked around with Washington State. That's a, that's a FCS thing.
- [44:34]
Bill Landis
What a, what a joke. What a bunch of mid jokers. Oh my God, it's just terrible. And, and like Penn State, also Penn State is playing like an SEC team this year that frankly, they are just like dorking around.
- [44:46]
Doug Lemorris
James Franklin was auditioning for the Florida job.
- [44:49]
Bill Landis
Northwestern has one receiver, Griffin Wild. And Penn State was just like, let's not cover him that play. And he got five yards behind the defense and Preston Stone hit him in the hands in the end zone. And then Preston Stone is going like this to the bench.
- [45:01]
Doug Lemorris
Oh my God.
- [45:03]
Bill Landis
Preston Stone was thrown like three picks a game and in September, now he's going like this with the lead at State College. I can't hear you, Penn State. Look how orange my thumb is because I was eating Cheetos today. You said you had play calling questions. What do you mean? What are the things that you are coming out of this most wondering about?
- [45:23]
Doug Lemorris
It's just the thing I feel like I've talked about, I've talked about like after the Texas game and the Washington game and now this one, they run the ball too much. I don't know why they're running the ball so much. They have the two best receivers in college football and a really good young quarterback and they are running the ball way, way too much. Like the first down, I, I didn't tally it up. I do when I do the re. Watch and I will again this week. Like was the first down run rate after the first drive, like 80? I have no idea. Like the run, run past stuff drives me crazy and I think it drives a lot of fans crazy because yeah, you can convert third and six when you have Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, but why willingly put yourself in those situations? You are allowed to throw the ball in early downs and for some reason Ohio State just like doesn't do it. I guess like against Washington, like they, they eventually got to it in the second half. Right. And I understand again, I understand the Texas thing.
- [46:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And they did it against, they did it against Minnesota. That was like the Let it rip game. And that was like. It feels like now instead of a part of an ascension, it's more like a one off. Like let's let it rip at home at Minnesota and see what happens. And we'll go back to that plane this way in the road.
- [46:24]
Doug Lemorris
Right. So, but, and this just felt like, I don't know, like a step back kind of. I get like, like Brian Hartline's doing this for the first time. He's gonna have some growing pains. I wanna, I wanna have like a little bit of, of grace I guess with that when, when discussing it, but I just don't, I just don't get it when they have the weapons that they have, like managing the game and playing a certain style and wanting to shorten the game. I don't, I don't disagree with that idea offhand. But there's a way to accomplish Accomplish that while still putting your offense on your best players. And like, they're not, they don't seem to do that enough. And by that I also mean the, the receivers, like, the offensive lines played well. Like, I get having confidence in your offensive line, but they're not, they're not super dynamic at running back outside of Bo Jackson. Like, Bo Jackson looked like he was playing at like 75 today. If that. So, like what? Like, so then why did you still come out and throw the ball before, like the last couple of drives when it was in hand? Why do they throw the ball as much as they did or run the ball as much as they did? I just. Yeah, it remains puzzling to me. And I don't know if it's like working some stuff out because there were a lot of red zone plays. I don't know. But like, even in the red zone, throw the ball more. Like, I tallied up their first ten red zone plays with seven runs and three passes. Like.
- [47:43]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [47:44]
Doug Lemorris
Why. Why is that the case? I think that's the stuff that drives people crazy. It's like, oh, we ran the ball for two yards again.
- [47:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [47:50]
Doug Lemorris
I guess it's third and eight.
- [47:51]
Bill Landis
You love the past. Jeremiah Smith from like the three yard line for the touchdown. Right. Whatever it was, he'd like the, the demon, the DB whiff without.
- [47:59]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, I feel bad for that db.
- [48:01]
Bill Landis
But that DB followed around all game.
- [48:03]
Doug Lemorris
I know. What a chore. Yeah.
- [48:06]
Bill Landis
So that guy, Jaheem Clark, who apparently goes by Juice, wasn't even healthy at the Indiana game. He's only gotten back healthy since then. So he wasn't one of the guys that got hurt. But now with Xavier Scott out, like, he's their best cover option. So that was interesting. And then to see he and Jeremiah get into it near the end of the game and get offsetting personal fouls.
- [48:28]
Doug Lemorris
Seven targets. Well, the one thing that, that because I get teams play Ohio State in a way that makes it difficult to like, go bombs away. That's not, that's not really what I'm talking about. This is a bad pass defense. It has been all year.
- [48:45]
Bill Landis
And Illinois.
- [48:46]
Doug Lemorris
You mean Illinois. Illinois. Yeah, Illinois. And like, it just didn't feel like Ohio State showed up, like, wanting to attack that and it doesn't even have to be. I guess they like ran mesh a couple times. But, like, where are the opportunities for these guys who run like thoroughbreds to catch up on the middle of the field and just like run by the defense? Right? Like, it doesn't. Why does every passing play have to be like, well I guess Jeremiah Smith and Carnell tate aren't open 40 yards down the field. I'll throw a check down the max. Claire Bo Jackson yeah, like it just feels like there's too much of that.
- [49:19]
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- [50:06]
Bill Landis
Longer.
- [50:06]
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- [50:35]
Modelo Recruiter
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly Macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer. Sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [51:32]
Bill Landis
Jeremiah Smith 7 targets, 5 catches for 42 yards and a touchdown. Carnell Tate 7 targets, 4 catches for 41 Max Claire 6 targets, 4 catches for 38 Bo Jackson 3 targets, 2 catches for 20. Brandon Ennis 2 targets, 2 catches for 14. CJ Donaldson 13 carries for 44 3.4 yard average. Bo Jackson 10 carries for 47 4.7 yard average. Again overall 27 pass attempts, 37 rushing attempts for Ohio State. Yeah this was I Think, to me, this was the first game where I really felt like some. You were clunky. Just some, like more questions about the play calling, that it was like, I don't like the flow of that. I don't know what. Like, maybe more to it.
- [52:23]
Doug Lemorris
There's no rhythm to it, and it doesn't feel like iterative like that they're setting stuff up. Like, I don't. I wouldn't say the whole years felt like that, but this game felt like that.
- [52:33]
Bill Landis
But then again, like when they needed it, that. That touchdown drive was really good. The first drive of the second half was really good, even though it was kind of long and. But like, I thought, you know, a couple times when saying how to get out of the pocket and throw. He did. I just thought that third and one.
- [52:50]
Doug Lemorris
Where he got like pressure in his face and got outside and just dumped it off the cast iron was a really nice play. Yeah.
- [52:54]
Bill Landis
And it's just a reminder of all these things. It's like Joel Class talking about. He thinks like. Like, Luke Montgomery's had an awesome year, right? And it's like Luke Montgomery got beat on that play and there's pressure in Julian saying's face. And then he bail. Julian Saying is like, all right, well, Luke Montgomery, you do your job 98 of the time. This one time you got beat, I'm gonna bail you out and I'm gonna roll out of the pocket and hit a tight end on the move. And it was like, just like a really good play. But I thought the rip down the seam, like to start to get that drive going, because as you said, they start off with the run at second and long, and it just would have been so easy to miss that throw. Right? We're gonna hit the tight end down the seam and it's. You throw it a little high, you throw it a little low, whatever. And now it's third and long, and instead he puts it right on Max Claire's hands for a 20 yard gain. And it's just a reminder of. And I think part of the point you're making here is Julian saying is so on it that I don't think you want to take it for granted and be like, well, yeah, I don't. It doesn't matter if we get in third and longs because. Or second alongs or whatever, because like saying, I'll just make the throne and. And make it all better. And it's like, that's a hell of a way to live, man.
- [54:07]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, I just. It's like those plays are Going to arrive organically. You don't need to. You don't need to orchestrate more. More of those situations. Football is hard enough as it is. Yeah.
- [54:21]
Bill Landis
8 of 15 on third down for Ohio State today. And again, I just thought, like, kind of a decent amount of them. I'll see if I can find it. Just like, tough third downs. Right. Didn't feel like they were just. There were just times in this game where it felt like Ohio State was in third and five for no good reason.
- [54:44]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah. Yeah.
- [54:45]
Bill Landis
And it's sort of like, why are you doing that?
- [54:49]
Doug Lemorris
Right. I don't know. I wonder. Yeah. I'll be interesting to look at the. The, like, all 22 and see what it looked like downfield, because it's hard to tell on TV.
- [55:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [55:01]
Doug Lemorris
Or like, if some of these runs were RPOs and the run was the right call and the run just didn't go where it needed to. Yeah.
- [55:10]
Bill Landis
So Ohio State again was 8 of 15 overall on third down. They were 3 of 8 on third and short, which is 1 to 4 yards. They did not have a third and long, which is 9 plus yards, which means they were 5 of 7 on third and intermediate between 5 and 8 yards. And that's like. That's living in dangerous territory a little bit. You're five of eight on all of those. And it just like that. That's what it felt like to be like, oh, here. Here they are again. I don't. I don't exactly know why they got here, because it just felt like the way they got here was with two average runs when two average runs. That's how everybody else in the Big Ten plays. It's like, what'd you do on first down? We handed it off to our average running back who got two yards. What'd you do on second down? We handed it off to our average running back who yards. It's like, okay, great. Now it's third and five. You better hope your quarterback can do something. And most of the time, for Ohio State, they can. But I understand the choice to be patient and the choice to be mature and the choice to take what's given. But, like, that doesn't seem like part of it. Well, we had to run it twice on the first two plays. What are we supposed to do?
- [56:16]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah. And like, for some teams, it makes sense. But, like, you know, how many times have we seen Ohio State get a free 8 yards on first down? Because, yeah, their cornerback is terrified of Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. So he's. So he's playing off. He's playing at the sticks.
- [56:30]
Bill Landis
Like they got some free money outs on third down today. Like, that was a couple of their third down conversions. Like, what's the play? It's like, I don't know, 12 yard out. It's like, man, couldn't you run that on first down?
- [56:40]
Doug Lemorris
Right. Because I think if you run it on first down, they're going to start playing up a little bit.
- [56:44]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [56:45]
Doug Lemorris
Because they don't want to keep giving it up. And then you throw it over the red. Yeah.
- [56:47]
Bill Landis
And you get some of this. But it's like you're just throwing it on, on third down. So like a, an interesting game. I certainly, and we, we certainly cannot live in this world. And this is not the world I'm living in. It's not like when the offense is going well, it's like, oh, that's Ryan Day calling the plays. And when the offense is like clunky, it's like, oh, this Brian Hartman calling play. That's because that's not fair. And it's also not right. But I just really, to me, for the first time, today was the first time when I was like, like the art. Right? There's the science. They're really the science. They're in the lab. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, post practice, they are in the lab. They run everything in practice that they maybe want to run in the game. Then they watch it on film, see what worked, say, yes, we like this, no, we don't like this. And they gather the package of plays that they think they want to use on Saturday. And if they don't practice it effectively during the week, week, they really are probably not going to run it on Saturday. That's the lab. And they're in, they're in there together, right. Ryan Day is still putting on the lab coat and going in there. And then Saturday's the art. So, you know, these are our, these are our six plays in this situation. But like, which one do you choose? How do you, as you said, you sort of like build off of things. We're going to do this in the first quarter to set this up for the third quarter. We're going to do this on first down to set this up for third down. And it felt like today was the day that was most lacking. Yes.
- [58:12]
Doug Lemorris
And I think, again, I'm not, I'm not trying to make an excuse, but to, to restate what I said earlier about that 2022 Iowa game where they got put on a short field and like, couldn't do much with it. Ohio State doesn't script drives, but like they, they devise openers. They like think things that can get them going and then like lean on a team. And I do wonder, it's like you got this handful of openers that you like and then you look. I was like, well, we're on the 28, do we have to use it? And then, and then it's like, oh, I guess we'll just run it. Well, right now it's third and seven. So like I, I do. I, I think they never got into a rhythm. Clearly they never got into it. And Ohio State fans know what it looks like when they're in a play calling rhythm because it's fireworks.
- [58:52]
Bill Landis
And they often are.
- [58:53]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, and they often are. But they were never in this game. And I, I, in an odd way, I really do think being put on a short field had an impact on it.
- [59:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's like, hey, we had this really cool opener that was like an 18 yard pass to Carnell tape. But we're at the 28. I guess we'll go to the Donaldson. Yeah, like, okay.
- [59:11]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, it's silly, but I think I actually, I bet if you talk to. Right.
- [59:16]
Bill Landis
If.
- [59:17]
Doug Lemorris
I bet that Ryan Day says if he didn't say it post game. If he gets asked about play calling on Tuesday, I bet he does.
- [59:22]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Okay. We'll wrap up with punting. Their punting's not good.
- [59:29]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah, it hasn't been for two years.
- [59:32]
Bill Landis
So their first three punts were 39, 34 and 37. And then I think their longest punt was in the fourth quarter when they were trying to pin it inside the 20. And then this one actually had distance on it and went in the end zone. So I, So this was a. Yeah. From the 41, 41 yard punt touchback. So a 21 yard net. So. But otherwise there's like these just. They had.
- [60:00]
Doug Lemorris
But wasn't that cool last week when they had Brandon in a stir? The ball to Lorenzo Styles and all the special team stuff was fixed. Yeah.
- [60:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And definitely like throwing a ball sideways on a punt could never go wrong. That's how you win. That's how you beat Michigan is throwing a ball sideways on a punt. Because there's no way that that could ever go wrong and turn into a touchdown for the opponent. And they had two delay of games on punt because they were worried about like the protection and then they just wound up. So like they went, I think they took a five yard penalty before a 34 yard punt. It's like 29 yard debt from where you were.
- [60:30]
Doug Lemorris
What is.
- [60:31]
Bill Landis
What is happening here? And so, so this remains. You know, it's. I don't know what we're supposed to do anymore. It's like they're still young men. They are not fully formed adults. It is college football. It is not a professional sport. And to come on here and just rip the punter for the number one team in the country doesn't feel like what anybody is supposed to be doing. But shouldn't they be better at punting?
- [60:54]
Doug Lemorris
Yeah. Again, it's not. It's the same thing. The same conversation we had about special teams, we were talking about Rob Keys is like, we're not ripping Rob Keys. We're ripping the idea of Rob Keys and we're ripping the. Ripping the idea of Joe McGuire and the idea of Jaden Fielding, which is like, you don't prioritize it. You're not out there pounding the pavement to get the absolute best in your kicking operation. And maybe it won't matter until it does.
- [61:16]
Bill Landis
Until it does. Until you're losing 20 yards of field position every time you punt because you're punting 33 yards and the other guy's punting 53 yards. And it's just, it's gonna matter when you're in an equal talent game now. I mean, the thing is, maybe they'll get in an equal talent game the whole year because they're the best team in the country. So it's like, I don't know, maybe there won't ever be. But it's just odd.
- [61:35]
Doug Lemorris
We're going to kicking team last year and won the national championship.
- [61:37]
Bill Landis
So, like, isn't it weird to just watch punts? And it'd be like, well, that didn't. What, that wasn't 40. Was this 140? Nope, didn't get the 40 because it feels like often other teams do get to 40.
- [61:51]
Doug Lemorris
And there was a time where Ohio State did it a lot. Like, whatever. Ohio State special teams overall have never been, like, excellent in my time. Time covering the team. But for most of Urban Meyer's tenure, the punt team was. Yeah, the punter. The punter was great and the Gunners were awesome. And teams are routinely starting, like, inside their own 10 yard line.
- [62:10]
Bill Landis
And I will, I. I noted this in the. The thing I wrote on Substack on Friday night, which probably a lot of people didn't read because I put Brett peel him on the headline and everybody was like, oh, great. Oh, can't wait to pay for next month for Doug to write more. Brett Bielema stories. Thanks bro. But rewatching a little bit of that Ohio State loss at at Wisconsin in 2010 when Ohio State gave up the opening kickoff for a touchdown. They had a graphic in that game as soon as they did that that said like Ohio State special team woes. And they put it up like right under Trestle as he was walking down the sideline. And I think Ohio State at that point in that year, which was mid October, I think had given up three total returns for touchdowns. I think two kickoff and one punt and had had three kicks blocked. I think two field goals and a punt and that was Jim Trestle. That's like in everybody's heads. It's like the gold standard of Ohio State special teams is Jim Trestle. He emphasized it more than anybody is how he won games. And halfway through the year they'd given up three return touchdowns and three blocks. And if we were talking about a special teams units that had given up three return touchdowns and three blocks, you and I won't be talking about anything else.
- [63:22]
Doug Lemorris
That is true.
- [63:23]
Bill Landis
This isn't that.
- [63:25]
Doug Lemorris
No. Their kick coverage actually has been good. Bryce west made a really nice tackle.
- [63:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [63:28]
Doug Lemorris
Today. And so did Garrett Stover. Running down on kick coverage like that part of their operation has been pretty good.
- [63:35]
Bill Landis
Penn State just took the lead against Northwestern with one minute left in the first half at home on a fourth down run. They're struggling. There's like ah, I wish my team would look better. And then there's like hey, can you bounce back from the UCLA boss by. By maybe taking a Washington. Ole Miss was a 32 point favorite against Washington State today. One by three. You know, it's like stuff happens.
- [63:58]
Doug Lemorris
Is pit the best college football team in Pennsylvania. It'd be a Florida State today.
- [64:03]
Bill Landis
That's. That's true. And like we gotta like is. Is the state of Ohio gonna get two of the 12 teams in the college football playoffs coming for you, brother. I don't know what to tell you. Brendan Sorsby is gonna like like the Heisman ceremony is going to be Julian saying Jeremiah Smith and Brendan Sorsby and they can all corp together from Ohio.
- [64:22]
Doug Lemorris
Those jerks in the playoff committee better not give us a Cincinnati Ohio State playoff game by the way.
- [64:25]
Bill Landis
Oh my God.
- [64:28]
Doug Lemorris
Like they gave us Indiana Notre Dame because they're close to each other.
- [64:31]
Bill Landis
Yeah. No, we'd rather have in. We'd rather have Indiana go beat Alabama. Right. I'm not Indiana, Cincinnati, Cincinnati beating Alabama in the playoff. I'll call that right now. I will call that today. Kaylin DeBoer has no answers for, for Brendan Sourceby. Scott Satterfield is going to coach the pants off of Kaylin Deborah in that game. Okay, that'll do it for this post game show. And then we're going to do a second postgame show at around 11 o' clock tonight after the prime time game ends. Primarily, that's usc, Michigan, that we'll be keeping our eye on. But we want to talk about everything else going on in college football. Indiana, Oregon, that's going on right now. Red River, Oklahoma, Texas, that's going on right now. Maryland's giving Nebraska game. Northwestern's giving Penn State a game. So we'll come back and do kind of a national college football show with the Big Ten Northern bent. You guys know it what we do. But we certainly wanted to check in on the Ohio State Buckeyes who remain number one six zero. I mean, some people are saying, oh, are they going to lose first place votes that I, you know, I, I think depending how the Indiana Oregon game goes, I mean, that's who.
- [65:28]
Doug Lemorris
Oh, maybe like not the Miami. Miami's like best win just lost the pit.
- [65:33]
Bill Landis
No, I know. So it's like I, I mean, I told you Florida State was a freaking joke. I knew Florida. I said that, I said that. That Alabama losing to Florida State was all about Alabama. It had nothing to do with that. Florida State was good. Good. I'll be curious how people react to the Oregon Indiana winner because those are two good teams, right? So, so I don't know. Meanwhile, again, Ohio State's best wins, like Texas is. Texas has no points in Red river right now. So I don't know.
- [65:57]
Doug Lemorris
By the way, Notre Dame is tied at 7 with NC State, who stinks.
- [66:03]
Bill Landis
Notre Dame style points. Notre Dame in a style point pursuit. So again, it's just a reminder. Like it's hard to be clicking on all cylinders every week, even if you're trying to make the playoff. All right, thanks to you guys for being here. We'll see a bunch of you tonight for our second postgame show. For now, he's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lemurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.