← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State beats Michigan 27-9 as Buckeyes throw deep, control clock on ground to win The Game
01:24:56
The Ohio State Buckeyes knocked off Michigan in Ann Arbor on Saturday in the 121st version of the Ohio State-Michigan game.
Loading summary
Transcript147 lines
- [00:01]
Doug Lemurice
You'll get more than you expect with McValue at McDonald's. So when you've spent too much on a night out, get deals on the after party. When you've got date night, get deals on favorites that'll make you their favorite. And when you've got family for the weekend, we've got breakfast.
- [00:18]
Commercial Announcer
Buy one, add one for a dollar now with sausage McGriddles and other breakfast favorites. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with combo meal valid for item of equal or lesser value. Ba da ba ba ba tis the.
- [00:31]
Bill Landis
Season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in who Louisville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly.
- [00:44]
Doug Lemurice
A who yelled walmart's the place to start.
- [00:47]
Bill Landis
And each who added headphones, TVs and.
- [00:50]
Doug Lemurice
Games to their carts.
- [00:51]
Bill Landis
With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart.
- [01:06]
Doug Lemurice
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. It's a post game edition after Ohio State beats Michigan in the 121st version of the game 27 to 9. We are finishing up the the post game conversations in Ann Arbor where Bill Landis is. He will join us shortly. I was kind of, kind of waiting for everybody to talk there, but we want, we want to get going here because this is not just a win for Ohio State. I think it's interest to think about a game and in terms of what are people going to be talking about this in the history of Ohio State football, in the history of the game, in the history of the Ohio State Michigan rivalry because we understand this becomes, this is history already. This game has been over for half an hour and it's already in the history books. And I think there are two defining things here that will be what we talk about and perhaps change the direction and tenor of this rivalry. Not just in a way because you win a game, but in how you go about winning the game. And I know we sort of had a discussion on our substack this week. People were asking questions, would it be easier? Would it be best? Is it necessary even for Ohio State to break this four game losing streak with a blowout? Do you have to dominate them? Do you have to leave no doubt in a way that there's not even a thought at the end? There's not an opportunity to get tight at the end of the game and so Ohio State did kind of do that at the end. They did dominate in the second half, clearly, but they screwed up at the beginning and they overcame it. And I think that it was hard in the beginning. Ryan Day in his post game news conference talking about 36 yard run by Jordan Marshall on the first play of the game. He says, I can't believe it. That's not what he anticipated. Julian saying, we jinxed him with a discussion here on the Bill and Doug show and on our substack talking about the early picks thrown by Ohio State quarterbacks the previous two years. We said, I don't, we don't think Julian Sane is necessarily built that way. He probably is less likely to throw an early pick Kyle McCord, third drive of the game, fourth throw of the game, pick. Will Howard, second drive of the game, sixth throw of the game, pick Julian saying, first drive of the game, second throw of the game, pick. But those other two are returned inside the 10 yard line. Michigan cashes them in for touchdowns. This one is only returned to the 39. The Ohio State defense stands up and holds it to a field goal and then it's over. And to put that mistake immediately in the rear view mirror and to then go about your business, I think Ohio State responded from a rough start early, from a pick, from getting gashed in the run game, from failures at the goal line when they had to settle for a field goal, they responded the way they have responded over the past year. Now a lot of people talk about they haven't been pushed as much lately this year. Right, we understand that. But I think they have responded the way that you would expect. That team that won the playoff last year, that team that held off Texas in week one, that team that has handled business every week. I think the idea of routine and trying to not get caught up in things, I think the way they responded when things did not go well was an indication that their heads were in the right place. And whatever they did this week, however they went about it, this was going to be a referendum on routine. Because whatever Ohio State was going to do this week, if it worked, okay, that's a great plan. That goes in the binder of how you go about winning the Ohio State mission game. If it doesn't work, you throw it out. Ryan Day wanted to do things different. This routine, this dedication to the process, clearly it is something that Ohio State relied on and I think it served them because it did not start well. So we can get into more of the football. We're going to wait a Little bit for Bill to get here. Bill is in Ann Arbor. You could hear Bill asking questions in the post game news conference. He will be here to talk about the ball. There's two defining legacy things here that I think we want to talk about. One is Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate playing in this game and the discussion around health and the discussion around decision making and the discussion around, is it load management? And the discussion around, are you worried that, like, guys are thinking about their future? Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith played in this game. And Ryan Day shouted out Sean Barnhouse and Adam Stewart, athletic trainers, physical therapists on the Ohio State staff who helped get these guys ready for this game. And I think it's an indication that this was a process. This was not a guarantee. Ryan Day talking about that early shot to Jeremiah Smith for the touchdown, he said that was a play that they had not really practiced much this week. They had walked that through. They had walked that through because they couldn't really practice it. Because according to Ryan Day after the game, Jeremiah Smith didn't practice much this week. Carnell Tate had not played in three games. Carnell Tate played today. Carnell Tate interviewed on the field after the game about what this means, the difference between did they play? Did they not play? It changes, I think, the tenor, the vibe, the legacy. It changes what the Ohio State Michigan game means. It leaves no doubt. It. It does not let things fester about how much does it actually matter to guys, whether it's fair, whether it's correct. We're not doctors. We don't understand what's going on there. It's the implication of it. It's the idea of it. It's even this, just the sneaking, the little snippet of an idea of is it possible that this game maybe doesn't matter as much as I think it does? Maybe as a fan do. I think it matters more to me than it matters to the guys out there. And then when guys go through this and then guys go out there and put their brains and bodies on the line and guys go out there and perform after a situation where it was uncertain, I think it is a reminder of, yes, it matters. And this game, I. This game will change. This game will evolve. But I don't think this game will lose what it is. As long as we have proof that people care and we have proof that you care. We have proof that you care. We don't ever question that. Ryan Day doesn't question that. The players don't question that. You don't question that. In yourselves. We know you care. We had people in our chat today. We had. We had someone whose wife is pregnant and her water broke after the Carnell Tate touchdown, and they decided they were going to hang in until the end of the game. I think you have some time. Best of luck to him and his family and his wife. And we had another fan who said his son took his first steps and clapped during the game. We know you care. Nobody ever questions that. And the people who question that don't understand it. If it's Nick Saban, if it's national people, does this game matter? If you have any familiarity with the fan base, we know you care. And I do think this week, like, if they don't want to talk about the passion and the pageantry because they want to be locked in, I said, okay, then the fans will handle this. The fans can talk about how much your grandparents cared about Ohio State, Michigan. The fans can talk about what this means to my life 365 days a year. In the past, sometimes we'd have the players talk about that. If the players. If that's not what Ryan Day wants to do, that's okay. The fans can handle that. What can the. What can the players do? What can a player do to prove to you, to prove to himself, to prove to his teammates, to prove to college football that this matters, that this is the best rivalry, that this is as good as it gets, that this is what makes you feel alive? What can he do? He can put his brain and his body on the line. And two guys who are going to be gazillionaires, two guys who are going to have more money in a very short amount of time than any of us can ever imagine. They did it today, and Carnell Tate did it today. Carnell Tate, who lost his mom, put his body on the line today for Ohio State football. And that is the. The biggest piece of evidence you can have. And when guys don't. We don't understand all the ins and outs, but the thing starts in the back of your head, how much do they really care? You can't question it. And we're going to have these conversations down the line. The sport is evolving. Carnell Tate showed you something today. Carnell Tate answered questions today. Carnell Tate left, no doubt today. Jeremiah Smith, people think is the best player in college football. He's got another year before he can go to the NFL. Ryan Day says he's barely practicing this week. They had to walk through the touchdown pass. This guy could stop playing football tomorrow and be a first round pick 18 months from now, that's not what he did. So if we're, if we're wondering what does this mean, why do you care? Why do, how much do they care? You, you can't answer that any better than it was answered today. And I think it was what all of us were wondering about, right? We had people putting out guesstimates of like what's the percent chance that they're both going to play? We were talking all week, well, if both play, if one plays, if neither plays, especially after the passing performance last week, they're both out there. So what that means, what it meant for the game plan. When you see Jeremiah smith with a 35 yard touchdown pass, when you see Cornell tate with a 50 yard touchdown pass, you know what it means to the game plan. It's obvious what it means to the game plan. A combined 11 targets for eight catches, 122 yards and two touchdowns for Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate today. Sonny Styles after the game talking about, we think we can win this game. We think we can win this game. On defense, we don't know. Sunny Styles, they didn't know for sure if Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith were going to play. So this goes in the history books, this goes in the lore. Hey, tell me about this. Tell me about these guys who, who, who very likely are going to go on to great NFL careers. Tell me about how much it mattered to them after everything changed after nil, after the transfer portal, after Ohio State in this era has a playoff spot locked up. Why does it matter? Grandma, Grandpa, tell me why it matters. Tell me why this games matter. This game matters because two future millionaires who are already millionaires, because they're getting it right now in nil, because two future millionaires who were hurt and we didn't know put it on the line. And who do they put it on the line for? They put it on the line for their family, they put it on the line for the teammates, they put it online for the coaches, and they put it on the line for you. So every time we have this discussion going forward, and we will, we have to, it's realistic, it's part of the world right now. But you won't forget this. Well, Carow played, Jeremiah played, right? So that's part of the lore that goes in the history books. The second thing is this Ryan Day in the post game says that he has sort of been thinking about this and that when he was going to win this game again, he thought about what he would Say, what am I going to say when we beat Michigan again? What is Ryan Day gonna say after Jim Harbaugh says he was born on third base? What is Ryan Day gonna say after Michigan cheats to win the game? What is Ryan Day gonna say after a devastating loss at home a year ago where Michigan plants a flag in Ohio Stadium? And Ryan Day says, I thought about all those things. Of course he's thought about it. This is his life. What is Ryan Day gonna say? And he says it on the field right after the game, and he says it again and he says, we're gonna win with humility. And now that goes in the lore. So what he did was he didn't say it, and he said it all by not saying it. So we had had flag planting discussions. We had flag planting discussions. Who can apply the flag? So through all of this, Ryan Day says, we're going to win with humility. And as many people noted post game, on the field, behind the interview on Fox, on the field, there's Jermaine Matthews, and he's carrying his belt. Now, I want to make sure this is clear. This is me making up in my head what Jermaine Matthews is saying with his belt. This is not to be quoted, because it's not real. But I imagine that Jermaine Matthews is walking around and telling Michigan players, I'd like to introduce you to my belt. His name is Humility. So that's what Ryan Day has now brought to this. And Ryan Day now owns this. Ryan Day is not. Ryan Day owns a piece of this. Now, in 2019, when he won for the first time, he got choked up on the field thinking about it. He got choked up then, I think, by the burden. And I was texting with ryan Day in 2019 after he won that game. And I wrote at the time, there have been more men who have walked on the moon than there have been Ohio State head coaches who have beaten Michigan. So you become part of that. You become part of something. But. But he was sort of like, he, he was in the door, but he wasn't really a member yet, because 2019, you're a part of something. You're riding a lot on the fumes of the Urban Meyer era. And then once 2020, the opportunity is taken away, and then once you lose four straight, people are not talking about the first one in 2019. So now when you get it back, it's ownership of this. It's ownership of this. And what people can get one. Sometimes the first thing is not the big deal, but can you do it again? Can you do it again? So for Ryan Day, and he says, we want to win this game and we want to go after this game. And it's not about how much you hate the team on the other side, it's how much you love your brothers. And so this is perhaps. We talked about routine. You talked about routine. And then part of it is love. So we're going to do what we do. But urban hates Michigan. Urban hates. Urban hates Michigan. Nobody doubts that, but I think to conjure up some of that hit. And here's the thing. Ryan Day doesn't hate Michigan because he was born into it. He doesn't hate the sight of their uniforms. He doesn't hate it when he crosses the state line. But I think Ryan Day has personal hatred for Michigan because of what Jim Harbaugh said, because of the Connor Stallion situation, because of what people said about his family around the Connor Stallion situation. He doesn't have sort of that general hatred of Michigan that maybe people in Ohio are born to. And you don't even really understand the hate before you feel it. He probably. I think he has a very specific form of it. And I think chasing the hate, perhaps chasing the hate for four years didn't serve him and hasn't been chasing it for four because he was the first one in 20, 21. Third base, right? That makes it personal. Third base is the first thing that makes it personal. Connor Stallions is the second thing that makes it personal. Planting the flag on your home field is the third thing that makes it personal. And so I think in his pursuit here, part of what he did by sticking to routine and by trying to not get caught up in past and, and really not wanting to tell stories about the rivalry and that kind of thing is he doesn't want to get knee deep in the hate. And when you turn inward, you turn into your players and you turn inward and you turn in here and you turn in here. And if you make it more about what's in here and you know what's in here and what in here isn't hate, what in here is work and love and the guy across from you who's in your foxhole, what in here. So if that's what drives you, right, and then you can come out and then you say, then you do this, and they're guarding the M, they're guarding the M, they're guarding the M. And nobody comes for it. What's better than that? They're guarding it. They're. They're thinking, you're going to come plant the flag and then you don't. And then I hated Woody versus the World last year. I hated Woody versus the World. I hated Woody versus the World. And the players go into the stands today.
- [17:33]
Commercial Announcer
What are you doing in a meeting? That could have been an email. That's right, you're losing interest. Don't let it happen to your money, too. Vanguard's Cash plus account can't help you at work, but we can help with your savings because Vanguard believes in giving you more. So how much interest could you earn?
- [17:54]
Bill Landis
5.
- [17:55]
Commercial Announcer
Find out@vanguard.com Cashplus offered by Vanguard Marketing Corporation member FINRA and SIPC.
- [18:03]
Doug Lemurice
You'll get more than you expect with McValue at McDonald's. So when you've spent too much on a night out, get deals on the after pipe. When you've got date night, get deals on favorites that'll make you their favorite. And when you've got family for the weekend, we've got breakfast.
- [18:20]
Commercial Announcer
Buy one, add one for a dollar now with sausage McGriddles and other breakfast favorites. Price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with combo meal valid for item of equal or lesser value.
- [18:35]
Doug Lemurice
And one of my most vivid memories when I talk about covering Ohio State, Michigan is in 2007. Ohio State wins there and they think they're going to the Rose Bowl. They wind up going to the national championship game because so many other things happen and so many other teams lose and they go on the stands and I consider have roses. They're holding roses. There are roses in their mouths, but they're in the stands. And it's like to be that when you're in the stands with your fans in somebody else's house. That's something. That's something right there. So those are the two things here that we will carry that with us. Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith put it on the line. Ryan Day says win with humility. That goes in the lore. So for Ohio State fans and I know talking to a lot of the people on our substack chat this week, getting a lot of their feedback, I know a lot of you are here in YouTube right now if you're listening back on a pod, we're appreciative that you're here. There's a lot of it that Ohio State fans wanted Michigan to suffer. And that's what's different from winning a national championship because national championship is really only about yourself because it's a process. It goes along the way. And there's nothing about hating Notre Dame or Hating Texas or hating Oregon or hating Tennessee, you know, individually in the moment. Right. But there's not deep, separate, succeeded. It's only about you. It's only really about the joy and the sense of accomplishment. This is both. This is love and hate. So I want this for me, and I want them to suffer. And so you have to imagine that Ohio State players feel that to some degree, but they weren't fueled by it. Ryan's Day said, have, like, the right kind of fuel. They weren't fueled by it, and they didn't talk about it. So that becomes part of now owning. That's ownership in the rivalry. Ryan Day is not passing through this rivalry. Ryan Day has ownership in this rivalry now. And so I think everything changes. And I think it goes into the lore. I didn't bring this up during the week because what's the point? I think this is right. Ohio State, if they had lost today, it would have been five straight. They haven't lost five straight since. They lost six straight between 1922 and 1927. Because even in the Cooper years, they didn't lose five straight. They lost four. They had a tie, then they lost again. So they had six years where they didn't win. They never lost five straight. 1945 to 1951, they lost four. They tied. They lost two more. They had seven years where they didn't win. They never lost five straight. This would have been the first time since 22 to 27, Ohio State would have lost five straight. That's pressure. So you overcome that, and you overcome it in a moment where you screw it up at the beginning. And so I don't know. I'm surprised that that Julian Saying threw a pick on the circumplay second play of the game. Ryan Day talked about it. Julian Saying talked about it. They thought it was cover one. That's man. And it's actually cover two, which is a zone where that. That first. That. That first defender, that corner sinks, the safeties are over the top. But you think, okay, if it's man, Jeremiah's behind the guy, that's it. But actually, it's a plan to bait you into it. So Julian Saying got baited into Julian Saying, who is a processor who is accurate, but who is. Who has been leading with his brain and as a Heisman candidate on his brain got baited on the second throw of the game. And it could get away from you there. Michigan is gashing Ohio State, the best defense in the country. They're getting gashed. They're getting gashed. It could get away from you there. So I think that idea that you could have blown it, you could have blown it before it even started and you didn't allow that to happen. There's something in there too, because a lot of what, like, a lot of what the concerns would have been we had early on we had a concern that kind of nobody had. Like, it's like I have Julian saying, is he gonna like make a silly mistake? I don't know. Probably not. He really hasn't done it. Like he's had like one bad play in, in Big Ten down, Big Ten games. He had the pick against Purdue where he threw back across his body in the middle of the field. Shouldn't have done it. Right. But other than that, like, what's the biggest mistake? Julian Sands like that, the big mistakes, or maybe I'll take a deep shot. One of the biggest mistakes that Julian saying has made. So like, there's not many of them. So now he's gonna do this in this game. How is this happening? So you have a how is this happening moment from Julian saying you have a how is this happening moment from a defense that is giving up nothing. Like, like two things that are unexpected. And then you have, of course this is happening moment at the goal line where you wind up on first and goal. Throwing a fade in the end zone to Jeremiah Smith. Doesn't work out. Incomplete. C.J. donaldson for two yards. There's a penalty on Michigan. That was the headbutt, right Then CJ Donaldson for one. CJ Donaldson, stop. Stop for nothing. But people thought maybe he was in. And then a Julian saying sneak that didn't get in. And then you're going to go for on fourth down and you get a false start. You wind up kicking a field goal and it's like, well, that's, that's exactly what everything had been worried, like been worried about all year. Short yarded situations. And so that goes wrong. You have unexpected things, unexpected things going wrong. And then you settle down and win the game. So like the idea of what, what I think, I think a lot of people thought C.J. got in, right? I think a lot of people thought CJ got in. And then even on the fourth down, it looked like it was going to work like a little boot rollout for Julian saying Jelani Thurman is open, but the false start by Bennett Christian wipes it away. So you don't even get to do it. But here we are and you come back and then you completely settle down. So the idea that I think It's, I think there's a lot of things here that Ryan Day said something after the game. He said something about taking back the game, which to me it's, it's different than winning the game, right? It's not just winning a game. It's like taking back the rivalry. And I do think you take back the rivalry by things going wrong and not panicking. He Ryan Day said after the game it wasn't a panic, right? It wasn't a panic. And if you're caught up too much in oh no, we're blowing the game again, you, there was an opportunity to panic there. Absolutely. An opportunity to panic. Didn't panic. Why didn't you panic? Because maybe you prepared the right way and you were thinking about it the right way. So I think like that, that I think you take back the game and then I think it's as illustrative of anything. Ohio State, offensively, there was not the toughness conversation this week. It wasn't set out loud. And I think the, the four, the last four games, the four game losing streak, a lot of it that I think got in Ohio State's head was a toughness conversation. That was toughness on offense. That was, we want to push people around in the trenches, we want to run the ball. All the discussion about the team that runs the ball best wins the game, that's going to continue because Ohio State did outrush Michigan in this game. 186 yards to 100 yards. But it's not like they came out and said we have to do that. They came out and threw. Right. But the toughness I think came from the Ohio State defense. The toughness came from the attitude that allowed you not to panic in the moment and then you hit a deep shot touchdown to each of your stars and then you put the game away with toughness. If toughness and running the ball is your finishing move, but it's not your game plan for four quarters of how we're going to do this. Great. So you don't have to say it, you don't have to talk about it, you don't have to cite rushing stats. Go out and get a lead with your elite receivers. Let your defense stand up and hold Michigan to field goals and then put it away on the ground. This is as illustrative, I think, as you can be of what Ryan Day wants to be offensively. Second and third drives of the second half, two plays, 57 yards, touchdown in 45 seconds, 20 plays, 81 yards, 11 minutes and 56 seconds. And a field goal. So Bill asked him after the game, hey, is that drive, right? That drive? Is that as like, good as it gets? Is that what you're looking for? Is that definitive? Ryan Day was like, wait, is that the one that is on a field goal then? No, but that idea, that's practically a quarter of the game that Ohio State took up. And so the ability to be quick strike and the, then the ability on top of that to also be methodical to kill people with the passing game, but then also control the game with the run game I had talked about. And I wrote this on Substack. If you guys, if you're not on our sub stack, you want to try it? Bill and Doug osu.substack.com the last four years, Michigan's run a trick play. A lot of them happen for Michigan, not last year, but the previous three years. They usually try it and it's been successful. Like middle of the third quarter, while they have a one score lead to make it a two score lead. So that's Khalel Lullings Mullings on third and one, running into the line, then stopping and throwing a little pop pass. That's a halfback pass by Donovan Edwards. It is, it is something that has been like a primary part of what they do. So Ohio State doesn't really run trick plays, but when they got up one score and then here they are in this, in the middle of the third quarter, their trick play is we have first round receivers. That's the trick. The trick is we recruit first round receivers and develop first round receivers and they can't be covered. So if that's working, I get that we don't need a halfback to throw the ball because you can't cover our guys normally. But I said it's time for a kill shot and they did it. Made it a one score lead into a two score lead in the middle of the third quarter. And they do it on the deep shot to Carnell Tate. And that's the kind of thing in that moment, it's what they needed and it's what they got.
- [28:39]
Commercial Announcer
With stays under $250 a night. VRBO makes it easy to celebrate sweater weather. You could book a cabin, stay with leaf views for days. Or a brownstone in a city where festivals are just a walk away. Or a lakeside home with a fire pit for cozy nights with friends. Or if you're not a sweater person, we can call it corduroy weather. More flexible and with stays under $250 a night. You can book a home that suits your exact needs. Book now@vrbo.com if you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [29:42]
Doug Lemurice
And what you guys need right now is a little Bill Landis in your life. Bill Landon, thanks everybody who's been putting up with a little Dougie time here for 26 minutes. Bill Landis, give us vibes from the big house.
- [29:57]
Bill Landis
Can you hear me okay? Am I coming through?
- [29:59]
Doug Lemurice
Can't hear you. Looking good. Sounding good.
- [30:01]
Bill Landis
Very, very out of breath. I had to walk up all those stadium stairs, man. Vibes are good. I was hanging out a little bit by where Ohio State boards its back buses. I was trying to stake out Ryan Day, but which is taking a long time, so I didn't wait for him to come out and, and get showered with applause by the fans. And they're actually, you know, there have been more fans waiting for Ohio State in the past than there were today, partly because I think the weather here is atrocious and getting worse, so people want to get out of here quickly. But very good vibes. Kaden McDonald walking out of the tunnel back to the buses holding in Ohio against the world flag. Everybody, as you can imagine, in very high spirits. A couple former players were sort of like behind the barriers where, where the fans and family were waiting and going over and congratulating the guys as they walk through and boarded the buses. So, yeah, pretty, pretty, pretty cool post game scene muted, I would imagine a little bit just because of the weather is pretty crappy right now.
- [30:57]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, take us through a little bit. We were talking about the start of that game and that you even texted me in our little slack chat that we had jinx. Julian saying by talking about the early interceptions the past two years. I went through it. It was on Kyle McCord's fourth throw of the game, on Will Howard's sixth throw of the game, and on Julian saying, second throw of the game. What was the vibes you think when Ohio State comes out and throws an interception on the second play of the game?
- [31:25]
Bill Landis
A little bit of here we go again. Right, Like A little bit of, oh, no, are they. Are they going to start playing tight and just fascinated to see how that would sort of impact the entire team from there. And, you know, I think to Ohio State's credit, maybe it did in the immediate aftermath, seemed to put them in a position where they had to reset a little bit. It's not like they came out and were automatically just sort of like guns ablazing, but it didn't take long for them to kind of bounce back from that, and that was a pretty good sign. I. I think, like, if they had gone that, that drive where it took them, whatever it was, six plays from the three to score, it's like, okay, that combined with the interception was a little bit of like, what are getting ourselves into with this game? But then from that point on, it really felt like the defense had it in control and the offense certainly found its footing. I think after that interception, it was on his next 21 passes, Julian saying was 18 of 21 for 244 and three touchdowns. So. So clearly he got it back into gear as well. But, yeah, in that moment felt like the ghosts of the. Of the last four years still had a little bit of fight left in them.
- [32:27]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah. And I was saying, Bill, like, there's something, you know, kind of been a discussion about this week. Somebody had asked on our sub stack, like, does Ohio State need to sort of have a game where they have no doubt? Because if it gets tight at the end of a game, given how the games have gone the past couple years, can they pull that out? Certainly the end of last year, you could see the mistakes they were making with the 12 men on the field and the missed field goal and the not tackling Khalel Mullings is like, okay, like, is this going to be a situation here? So they did leave no doubt in the second half, but I think there's something to be said said for it not going well early. They're getting gashed in the run game early. They throw the pick early, they can't get in five shots from the goal line early, and then they still find a way. What did you think of that? What did you feel vibes from them on, like, they didn't go out and play a perfect game to win. They kind of screwed up some stuff and on the road in the snow, they won anyway.
- [33:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so. This. I think this would have been after that, that drive where it took them a while to get in and they had. They had to settle for the field goal. There was, there was A. A moment in the game where I thought Ryan Day sort of was like a game manager, seemed to express a ton of confidence in his team. And that was when Michigan, I think ran the ball on like second and five maybe, I can't remember. It was a second and five play for, for I think no gain. And there was a holding penalty. And rather than put them back to second and long, Ryan Day declined the penalty and kept them in third and five, which I thought expressed a ton of confidence in his defense to get Michigan off the field. And then they did. And then that ensuing drive from Ohio State, they march it down and it's 4th and 5 and they just throw the Jeremiah Smith and get a touchdown. And it was like, okay, they think they got this like, like that, that was, that whole sort of like two drive kind of juncture there said a lot to me about the position that Ohio State felt like it was in despite the first few moments of the game being a little wonky. So I don't, I don't really know that you can ask for a better response than what they showed getting that stop getting off the field. And then in an opportunity it would have been a pretty long field goal, like a 50 yard field goal. So they're not gonna kick that there. But they didn't merely try to get the first down. They dialed up a 35 yard touchdown pass to Jeremiah Smith. And I really thought kind of set the tone from that moment and kind of took over the game from there.
- [34:44]
Doug Lemurice
I want to get some more vibes from you because you made the drive to Ann Arbor. You're going to be stuck in a snowstorm at Ann Arbor. I'm just sitting in a basement. One is again, you have a great video. I was trying to see if I could download it and bring it here to the show. I couldn't find a way to do it. But you put it in our substack chat of just all the Buckeyes coming up the tunnel after the game. It's about a 90 second video. If you are one of our substack subscribers and you didn't see it, make sure you go find it in the chat. You were in the tunnel watching these guys come off the field. I don't know if you were able to see stuff on just post game vibes. Take us through what, what you saw.
- [35:15]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I didn't see. I didn't see what was happening on the field. Right. So I didn't see. I saw it after the fact that Michigan was like kind of guarding the, the Block a little bit. And then Ohio State's players were sort of in the crowd celebrating as that happened, which I thought was interesting. I caught the tail end of Michigan kind of coming off the field, and it was. It was expressed to me that it felt like maybe Michigan had been waiting a little lower in the tunnel for Ohio State to come off the field. But. But the police. The police weren't going to let that happen. So Michigan sort of slowly made its way up the tunnel, guys kind of like turning around and chirping back toward the Ohio State players. And there was probably a full two or three minutes before the police kind of moved and then let Ohio State walk up the tunnel. So there was nothing between the two teams that happened in the tunnel. And then, you know, nobody really saying anything sort of like out of pocket when they, when they were coming up here. They're just like, excited, obviously, that they won this game. The one thing that did kind of stick out to me was Jermaine Matthews running up the tunnel with Tim Walton kind of like arm in arm, screaming about them repeating sort of now that they got. They got past this, this test with Michigan and they're going to the playoff, obviously, and I think no matter what happens in Indianapolis are going to have a buy more than likely. So I. I would say, like, it wasn't what I expected, right? Much of, like much of the post game was not what I expected. And like, I just expected Ohio State to kind of revel in it a little more, and they really didn't. And I guess maybe the best thing you can do is. Is not right, like, just sort of like, win and go about your business and kind of act like you were supposed to do that. And, and that's kind of mostly the vibes that I got for them. Like, excited. Yes, of course. It's a heck of a thing to end this losing streak. And there are been nobody on this roster that won't before. We all know that. But it could have, like, I don't know, it could have been bad, certainly, and it wasn't thankfully, but. But even, you know, absent that, it could have been guys, like, yelling stuff at Michigan players, guys, you know, hanging out the locker rooms right across the hallway from each other, like, lingering outside Michigan's locker room and saying stuff like, they really didn't. They just. They ran up the tunnel, they celebrated, they screamed, and then they went to their locker room. And then by the time Ryan Day got into the tunnel and was walking up, it was pretty quiet, actually. All the players had gone in and Ryan was walking with his son and he was surrounded by a couple of police escorts and he wasn't saying anything. He wasn't even really smiling, just kind of walking up, walking up and went to the locker room and that was it. So it was, it was rather understated, I would say, compared to what I sort of envisioned it looking like when Ohio State won this game again.
- [37:47]
Doug Lemurice
But it does feel like he said it on the field. He said again in the post game, we're going to win with humility. That feels like a statement in and of itself. Right. What did you think when you heard that?
- [37:55]
Bill Landis
Sure.
- [37:55]
Doug Lemurice
Come out of his mouth post game.
- [37:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah. He said, you know, I thought a lot about what I could say when we won this game, and I'm not going to say them. But then like in saying we were going to win with humidity. Humility, he is saying something. He's telling you that Michigan, he feels Michigan has not won with humility the last four years. And, and, and they're going to do that. So that was as close to like a, whatever a sound bite as you're going to get from Ryan Day. And he really kind of deflected and talked more about the players and his family and the staff and the fans more than he ever talked about himself at any point. But that was his message. Like, this rivalry is important. We get that everyone, everyone is striving every day to win it. But like, when you win it, have a little sense of decorum, I think. And Ohio State did, I think, today, and certainly they don't feel like Michigan had had that over the last couple of years.
- [38:44]
Doug Lemurice
The other thing I want to get your vibes on for sure was the Jeremiah Smith touchdown and then the bauble that led to a review on the broadcast. They were very much like, we think this could be a touchback. If he did not have control when he crossed, when he got control back, his foot was on the sideline. And then they did not overturn it and they kept it. They referenced it as a controversial touchdown. I think a couple times during the course of the game. What was it like in the press box as everybody was waiting for that review to come down?
- [39:17]
Bill Landis
We weren't sure what they were reviewing because we don't, we don't have the TV sound on up here. And, and I wasn't listening to the broadcast at that time, so it was a little unclear. Then I kind of got from you and the folks in our chat what they were looking at, and it's like I was down on the end of the press box where all the Ohio State writers were. So they thought it was a touchdown. I don't know. I don't know what it was like on the other end, on the other end of the press box there was. They didn't make an announcement that they were going to send a pool reporter down to talk to the officials. And I'm assuming it's about that play, but I haven't actually seen what was said yet about that officiating decision. It was interesting to me though. Like when they reviewed it, they said it was upheld. They didn't, they didn't say like there was conclusive evidence. Like they called it the touchdown on the field and felt like they didn't see enough to kind of overturn it, which is interesting. But I would, I would say, like, I don't know, I was a touchdown to me, like, I get it, but he caught the ball and run into the end zone and then lost control. But like, I don't know. To me, like that probably should be a touchdown.
- [40:13]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, yeah. I don't. It's almost one of those. If that's the kind of thing that results in a touchback, it's almost like, I think maybe the rules of football need to be changed a little bit. That, like a momentary bobble and your toe is on the sideline in the end zone and all of a sudden instead of a touchdown, the other team gets the ball at the 20 yard line. I actually think some of that touchback stu stuff of like it feels antiquated. That's what they did in 1897. So I think it was the right call. But like in the moment, Bill, it was like, holy moly. Because that's, that's what put, that's what put Ohio State ahead. All of a sudden like the way the game unfolded, I don't think it changed the result of who was going to win the game, but man, that would have been quite a momentum turn.
- [40:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I don't think, I don't know that Ohio State would have lost because of that. But yeah, it would have been a heck of a, heck of a momentum swing for sure. If you, if like, oh, oh no, they're playing Jeremiah Smith. Oh no, he burned our corner for a touchdown. Oh wait, it didn't count. Great. Like that would have been tremendous for Michigan.
- [41:05]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah. Yeah. So you asked Ryan Day the question after the game we were talking earlier. I, I think the idea that Ohio State had a 45 second touchdown drive, two plays, 57 yards with the 50 yard deep shot to Carnell Tate to make it a two score lead. And then their next drive takes almost 12 minutes. It is 20 plays, 16 of them on the ground and it puts them up three scores. Those two sides of what Ohio State can do offensively feels like exactly the kind of offense that Ryan Day wants to build. And you did ask him about that long drive after the game.
- [41:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think especially in this game. Right. Like he wants, clearly he wants to be able to show both sides of Ohio State in that regard. Frankly, I did not know whether or not they had the, the 20 play, 16 run drive in them. They had run the ball really well the last couple of weeks against bad defenses and was not entirely sure what that was going to look like when they came here and, and you know, in theory would at least have to run it some. And they ran a great, they ran really well and that drive was about as impressive of a field goal drivers you're going to see. It was funny. I asked Ryan Day about it like where, where does it rank and he said it doesn't rank because we didn't score a touchdown. So. Yeah, he's still kind of doing, yeah, he's still kind of doing the, the, the Saban thing, but deep down in, in his gut I'm sure he loved that drive. Right. It was that, that that drive was Ohio State flipping four years of your soft back on Michigan even even though it didn't end with a touchdown. But I, I think to your point, like to, to show that and to show, oh, by the way, we can score in two plays when we need to too. Like it just makes them really hard to stop, man. Like, like, I don't know. I'm not saying necessarily that if they got into a game where they had to do stuff like they did on that 20 play drive over and over and over again, that they would definitely win. But you wanted to know that they had it in them and, and to do it in, in this game in the snow, on the road to snap the streak. I, I don't know how much more convincing it could have been.
- [43:09]
Doug Lemurice
I don't like the idea of Ohio State leading with that. I don't like that being the primary discussion. Run game toughness. It should not be their primary discussion. It's a hell of a finisher.
- [43:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [43:19]
Doug Lemurice
Like, like what, what happened? It's like Ohio State got a lead with its deep passing game and its defense. Oh, you mean the two things it does best? Yeah. And then what? And then they ran it 20 times. Oh, that's the plan, is it not? Because. And it like Ryan Day wasn't talking about toughness and run game and everything all week. But then when it was needed, they just went and did it. But they didn't try to do it in the first quarter. They didn't try to define themselves by it. But when it was needed and when it was time as set up by other things, it was there. And that's when like all the run games discussions that we've had over the course of the season and even that it didn't really snow in the first half and then it was totally snowing in the second half. It's almost right. I mean it's like when the weather's decent, we throw it deep and when the weather gets bad, we run the ball and we can do both. And it's two sides of the Ohio State coin simultaneously. The frustration I think over the last four years is when they give up one side of the coin in pursuit of the other. But they always should have both working and this was as good as it gets in showing that it was.
- [44:21]
Bill Landis
And I, and I, I, I'm sure you took down to this too. And I did both in the words that he, that he said and the way that he said them. He said like if this was indoors it would have been different. Which is to say, like, if this was indoors, we would have blown them out. I really do think they think that. But it also, like it didn't. It applied to the moment, yes, but it also felt like a little bit of a, of a warning to like the rest of college football. It's like Ohio State is done with the snow games. Everything from here on out is going to be played on a, probably like a fast track and in pristine conditions. And we're built for that. But by the way, if this were to ever happen, we're built for this too.
- [44:56]
Doug Lemurice
And that's what we talked about for, for four years for this team. This is not you. You do have to be able to be both because there's sort of like a regular season version of it and there's a postseason version of it. It is a bad weather and then it is indoors good weather. And frankly you need the indoor indoors good weather to win the national championship. You, in a 12 team playoff can probably get away without being great outdoors in bad weather because maybe you'll lose, but you'll still get to the playoff if you're Ohio State, you'll just lose the game that matters most. So that they can do both is difficult and I don't think they should ever give up the deep shot stuff and the passing game stuff in the name of the run game. But that, that you question, like the idea that they did it, that they could do that. When they set off on that drive, and it started with 506 left in the third quarter when they set off on that drive, I think you could feel this is what they want to do. But did you think they actually could take that drive well into the middle of the fourth quarter?
- [46:00]
Bill Landis
No. No, I didn't think so. I thought. Now the one thing that they did do was, was put themselves in like, manageable third downs on that drive. A couple, couple sneaks extended the drive, right? But I was just sort of waiting for like, okay, they got a first down running. They got a first down running. Here comes. Here comes the bomb, right? Here comes. Because they could have really. There were two ways to put it away there, right? The way that they did it or the Jeremiah Smith Carnell Tate way. And I just sort of assumed that they would eventually use all that running to, to set that up, to set up the play action shot. And they never did. But you could feel it too, right? Like it's. And you felt it definitely in 2021 is probably to say like the most I felt it for Michigan against Ohio State, where it's just like they're running it. There's nothing the defense can do. They're leaning on them, the line of scrimmage is moving every time they snap the ball, even if it's only for three yards or four yards. And. And it felt like that as Ohio State was running it. So, you know, after you convert twice running it, you probably assume like, okay, they're just going to try to run this thing out. And that's what they did. But I wasn't entirely sure in the moment until probably 12 or so plays into that drive, that they were going to try to actually finish it out that way. And they didn't, you know, whatever. They didn't quite get it done, I guess, but they got themselves in position for a very manageable field goal and then ice the game with their run game.
- [47:21]
Commercial Announcer
If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering. So you never run out of what you need call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done. Ah, dsw. Birthplace of the humblebrag here. The shoes are so good, no one would ever know how little you paid. If you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, we'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or dsw.com.
- [48:24]
Doug Lemurice
Bo Jackson 22 carries, 117 yards CJ Donaldson 14 carries, 44 yards Isaiah West 6 carries for 20 yards. Julian sand winds up running it four times for seven yards. They wind up, all told, 47 carries, 186 yards. Julian Sane is 19 of 26 for 233. But they were pretty balanced up until that drive until they put the game away when it was, you know, again, 16 runs. I think four passes on that drive. It's pretty balanced otherwise. I want to ask you about Bo Jackson because that, I think it was a 36 yard run early when he got strung out to the sideline and it looked like he was going to get tackled for a loss and instead he drops a little stutter step and goes 36 yards. That felt like a potential changing, a turning point of the game because that is a first down play so you can recover from it. But it's like, oh great. Oh, you run wide and it's gonna be a loss of five on first down and then it's gonna be second and 15 and instead he makes that happen all by himself. That was, I, I don't know man. I don't know what people are going to call that, but that'll be one.
- [49:34]
Bill Landis
Best friend of the season. Yeah, best run of the season.
- [49:37]
Doug Lemurice
Like that. That goes in the lore a little bit, right? I mean if you're doing the five minute cut up of this game, that's certainly one of the early highlights. And that felt like a momentum shifter, didn't it?
- [49:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it did because. Because Jordan Marshall had done that to them I think on the drive previous and was like Ryan Day said, he was like what's going on? Everybody's like what's wait, what's happening? This defense doesn't do that. This defense which had given up four rushing plays of 20 yards all year, gave up three on thing on Michigan's first three or four drives and you don't really know what's happening or why that's happening. But for. For Bo Jackson to kind of respond in kind was huge. He was great. By the way, what do we have like 160 something yards from scrimmage? Because he had. He was our second leading receiver by yardage in this game too.
- [50:18]
Doug Lemurice
So I think 166 on 20 seconds.
- [50:22]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I don't know that the play itself maybe becomes part of the lore because it was so early and he didn't score. But I think his performance might like for a true freshman from Cleveland in his first Ohio State Michigan game to go for 160 yards from scrimmage and you know, turn would look like a couple of dead runs into key first downs. And to be a reliable safety valve in the passing or outlet in the passing game that to get you a couple nice chunk plays when they had stuff covered downfield like he was, he was excellent in this game. He talked afterwards. He's a man of few words. So he wasn't. He wasn't really recounting the moment, I think as much as some other people will when they write and talk about it. But that, that is one of the better individual performances I've seen in the highest image games that I've covered. Yeah.
- [51:09]
Doug Lemurice
People love talking about freshmen in the game. And that goes in, you know, Chris Olave and that kind of thing that goes in the books of Mega Mac is saying Bo had the most yards as a freshman against Michigan since J.K. dobbins. So yeah, so that's really. That, that's quite a thing in that moment. We talked about it ad nauseam all year. The right guard position to my eye, just Tegra Shabola the whole way. Correct.
- [51:36]
Bill Landis
Did not rotate. Yep.
- [51:37]
Doug Lemurice
Not rotate. And, and it's. I don't know why we do it, but I feel like a lot of times when we're talking about the issues at right guard, we just say Tegra. Tegra. Tegra. Right. We don't really say Shibola. We say Tegra more often. Maybe it's fur bulls. I think we should say Tegra Shabola in the game as a see a three year starter for Ohio. No.
- [51:57]
Bill Landis
So he's like second year starter.
- [51:58]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, it's a second year starter for Ohio State who's played a lot of football. I think Tegra Shabola, Ohio native, seemed to play pretty well in the game that mattered the most.
- [52:09]
Bill Landis
Yeah. He wrote to the occasion like I don't know, whatever. I don't really Care frankly what the PFF grades say. I'll say that, like, I thought this was his best game. The offensive line in general played great and like, it was like those guys getting out of here fast like Tegra and Phil Daniels or walk out of the locker room to the bus. Like, they still have their eye black on. I think they clearly didn't shower. I think they're just trying to get to the. The bus, into the plane as quickly as possible. But also a huge smile on, on Tiger's face. This was a real test for him and, and I think one we knew kind of coming into it that they probably weren't going to give him help because the gay Van Sickle probably just not quite ready. And Josh Padilla coming off of his injury like, they clearly really wanted to ride Tegra in this game. And I'm not saying every snap was perfect, but I don't think he gave him a reason to take him out. And, and you know, beyond that, played played his best game of the season. And the offensive line in general just did a really nice job of the run blocking, obviously, but the, the pass protection too was great. Like, Julian was. Was clean for most of the game. I think maybe the one or two times he did it, I'm taking a hit was we're only screen passes where they let guys through. So. And they were picking up stunts, too. They were, I remember, like a key stunt. Luke Montgomery picked up on one of the plays that they converted on third down. I think it was Brandon Ennis on the touchdown drive. So excellent, excellent offensive line game and definitely a shout out to Tiger for, for stepping up when they needed them to.
- [53:32]
Doug Lemurice
So Butler Buck saying Tiger is not an Ohio native. He graduated from Lakota west, but he's not an Ohio native. Well, he went. He graduated from high school in Ohio. So I'll say that Tiger Shabola, who graduated from high school in Ohio, played a good football game. Austin Cerebell.
- [53:44]
Bill Landis
Luke Montgomery loves Ohio State with every fiber of his being because he's an Ohio high school football player.
- [53:48]
Doug Lemurice
Yes, Carson has been. Tegra, Shibola, Philip Daniels did their job in the game and protected Julian, saying all game, got it done in the run game. And we have seen. It's one of those things. It's like they talk about the broadcast like this offensive line has been criticized. It's not that they. It's not about them being criticized. It's about they've been playing in a way that deserve criticism. They've been inconsistent. They've had moments where like right Guard, legitimately, was an issue much of the time. And then also there would be moments where just various guys on the offensive line, it'd be this guy, then it'd be this guy, and there'd be moments where they were making mistakes. It's not about the criticism. It's about the performance. So people love to talk about, like, oh, the criticism. They overcame the criticism. No, they didn't. They overcame performances that were not as good. And then, guess what? The performance, when it mattered, was great. So. So now it is time to give credit in the moment based on the performance and nothing else. The performance in the game, Bill, was great. And as you said, whatever the grades are, the grades are. This offensive line, were you sure that this was how this offensive line would play in this game?
- [54:53]
Bill Landis
No. No. I thought when we did our preview, I had the Ohio State offense against the Michigan defense and felt very good. It felt very good about the matchup of Ohio State's receivers against Michigan secondary didn't feel quite as good about the matchup up front. There's good players up there. Rayshawn Benny, good player. Derek Moore, good player. Jayson Barm, great, like, very good player. And there were some individual matchups. I think that based off some of the way, the ways the offensive line has played this year, that could give you some concern. And I say something online just like, kind of handled it. So, no, I. You know, I think the way that the last couple years have gone, the. The questions kind of reach a fever pitch about the offensive line coming into this game. And I think some of that is deserved with the way the unit has played in this rivalry the last few years. So, like, not only did the team kind of flip the script, but I thought the O line did well. Maybe. Maybe more than anybody else or any more than any one position group. Right. It's been a while, I think, since we've been able to say that Ohio State had clearly the better offensive line in this game. And they did today.
- [55:56]
Doug Lemurice
Michigan one of the 10 finalists for the Joe Moore Award for best offensive line. Ohio State not one of the 10 finalists. And the Ohio State offensive line clearly the better offensive line today again, overall in the game. 419 yards for Ohio State, 163 for Michigan, 233 to 63 passing, 186 to 100 on the ground. Ohio State 22 first downs. Michigan 9 third down conversions. Ohio State 10 of 17, Michigan 1 of 9 total plays. Ohio State 73, Michigan 42. Time of possession, 40 minutes to 20 minutes. Doubled the time of possession. Total plays Ohio State 73, Michigan 42. Let's talk more about this Ohio State defense.
- [56:38]
Bill Landis
Bill, can I ask my question about it?
- [56:41]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, absolutely.
- [56:42]
Bill Landis
Just because I. Like, I wasn't watching the. I was watching the broadcast, but unable to hear it. Were they saying anything about Andrew Marsh and the fact that he had no targets?
- [56:49]
Doug Lemurice
No.
- [56:52]
Bill Landis
He was doing to make that the case?
- [56:54]
Doug Lemurice
No, they kind of brushed past it, maybe at the end that they were doubling him, but it wasn't a focus of the broadcast. Andrew Marsh was targeted unofficially that one time on the pass interference, but that's a penalty. So in the books, no targets, no catches, no yards. For a guy that I said was arguably their most dangerous receiver in a decade, what did you see? Was there anything that you thought Ohio State was specifically doing to take Andrew Marsh away? Obviously, the. The Michigan pass game in general with Bryce Underwood was incredibly ineffective. But I'm. I'm. He's their most dynamic playmaker, especially once Jordan Marshall got hurt. And that he literally did not touch the ball is. I think, regardless of what Ohio State did, is a great credit for Ohio State, but a remarkable failure by Michigan.
- [57:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's. It's hard to tell every play, but there were definitely some where it felt like they were throwing some extra bodies his way, bracketing him, or at the very least, like, kind of shading a safety over to that side to, I think, deter Bryce Underwood from throwing it to him. The only receiver who caught a ball in this game is Donovan McCully. And it felt like Ohio State was. Content's probably the wrong word, but I think, as a plan, was sort of trying to funnel the ball that way. Like. Sorry, I got a text here.
- [58:10]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, it's from Jerry.
- [58:11]
Bill Landis
You go ahead.
- [58:11]
Doug Lemurice
I'll read it.
- [58:13]
Bill Landis
Okay. Oh, that's not what the. Okay. There were other times where they were singling him up, too, and covering him well. And then there were other times as well where it just felt like Bryce Underwood was a little sped up. I think there were a few kind of key passing downs where Ohio State showed pressure, then backed out of it, but still kind of got the intended effect of making Bryce Underwood go to his check down pretty quickly. And the running backs were bad catching the ball. The running backs had, like, four or five drops in this game for Michigan, so it was all. I don't know if it was a. Like, 100. Let's. Let's take Andrew Marsh out of the game sort of game plan for Ohio State, but there were definitely times that we were crowding him a little bit.
- [58:50]
Doug Lemurice
But I thought I can even like throw a bubble screen to a guy, right?
- [58:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:54]
Doug Lemurice
Run a jet sweep to a guy. I mean he's your most.
- [58:56]
Bill Landis
They had him in the backfield a couple of times. Yeah, they had him in the backfield a couple times, but then they just ran the ball. Yeah.
- [59:01]
Doug Lemurice
So. Very surprised by that. So this is a text. Now if I can get it to show up on my. This is a text from Jerry Emig, who.
- [59:08]
Bill Landis
I have it here. I can read it if you want me to.
- [59:10]
Doug Lemurice
Okay, why don't you go ahead and read it. This is, this is the, the pool reporter who went and talked to the officials about this stuff.
- [59:16]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So I guess there were two things. Why was Jayshawn Barham of Michigan flagged and not ejected for appearing to make contact with an official quote in Rule 9? It is a judgment call by the judgment of the official. It wasn't forcible enough for ejection, but it was on sportsmanlike. Now we're, we're judging with targeting against officials. And then the last one was, why was Jeremiah Smith's 35 yard touchdown ruled a touchdown upon further review with replay when it appeared that he was bobbling the ball and Fox Sports rules expert Mike Pereira said he thought it should have been a touchback quote. We did not have a camera angle to determine when the ball was loose as opposed to when it crossed the goal line. So by rule, if we don't have an angle to confirm by obvious video evidence that the ball was loose before he crossed the goal line, then the play is going to be upheld.
- [60:05]
Doug Lemurice
Okay. I, I don't know. I don't know enough about the specificity of the rule. I think maybe the one thing I thought was that if he bobbled it while he was crossing the goal line that he got control back of it with his body in the end zone and then stepped out of bounds. So do you not if you have clear possession and you're over the goal line, is that not a touchdown? Regardless of then if your foot follows through and hits again. I don't know. Whatever.
- [60:27]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [60:28]
Doug Lemurice
But that's, that's their answer. Sure. So that's the answer. And it wasn't, it wasn't a one score game and clearly we understand how big of a play that was. It certainly would have changed momentum. But if they felt like they couldn't get a camera angle, then, then that's the decision that they, they came down with. So I think not getting the ball and Ohio State's Ability to take him away again. It's a credit to the Ohio State defensive game plan and also a failure by Michigan there Jordan Marsh. Jordan Marshall who like barely played winds up being the guy with the most yards from scrimmage for them. Seven rushes for 61 yards. He did it early. He re aggregated the shoulder on the broadcast she wrote more said he's probably not going to be back. And then he did come back in the second half. Didn't look the same. Had that long of 36 in the very first play of the game. The first play of the game is their longest play of the game. I did think it hurt them. Now you know Bryson Cuddles, he's a nice walk on story. He played pretty well against Maryland last week. He was 11 carries for 38 and he ran hard a couple times. I did take it hurt Michigan not to have him the whole game.
- [61:28]
Bill Landis
It definitely did. But I, I think there's an interesting thing there. If you kind of like juxtapose the two teams, right. We've been talking all year of like Ohio State has too many running backs, right? They're working too many running backs into the game by trying to play four and Michigan loses two and they don't have anybody. I think, I think that's a little interesting the way they, the way they build this program at the turn. I thought Bryson Kudzel played, played well last week having. Having to be the starting guy, but clearly not the caliber of back to give Ohio State much trouble. Yeah, I think, I think not having Marshall, you know, play the role for like the, the success that Michigan had running the ball did feel a little more like schematic driven than it did personnel driven. Like there were those, those gap scheme runs early with the pullers and stuff that Ohio State was just not fitting up. Right. But then you give credit to Jordan Marshall too for he slipped a tackle on one of them, right. He made those explosive runs, but they didn't necessarily have to be. So losing him probably took a lot of what Michigan had had planned out of the works. But they still ran it a ton. Like I think I, you know, if you want to compare it to last year's game, I thought Michigan ran it way too much in this game for, for the way that the game was being played.
- [62:34]
Commercial Announcer
If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust from paper Towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [63:04]
Commercial Announcer 2
Come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different. Try something that feels like you, you know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play with sneakers, boots and everything in between. For every style, mood and occasion, you'll definitely find shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. DSW let us surprise you.
- [63:38]
Doug Lemurice
24 carries, 100 yards but they didn't feel like they we we talked about. They have not run Bryce Underwood a ton on design runs this year. He's a little more of a scrambler. He wound up doing nothing in the run game. Six official carries for one yard. Part of that is Ohio State has guys Arvel Reese primarily who kind of float and spying waiting in the middle of the field for him. But they didn't really do anything with him in the design run game at all. Right. To try to see game's not working.
- [64:03]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they, they ran them early I think on the first drive of the game and Kenyatta Jackson stuffed it and then like they didn't, they didn't do it again. I don't, I don't think after that he had a couple scrambles but yeah, aside from that really nothing again surprising. Like I just it for the first time in a long time it felt like Michigan came in a little under prepared for the Ohio State for the I State Michigan game and, and didn't have a ton different and Ohio State was sprinkling and some different stuff.
- [64:33]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I mean I did wonder as a Detroit kid who almost went to LSU and winds up going to Michigan and is certainly had some really good moments this year for a team that was on the edge of the playoff discussion. The idea of like what if Bryce Underwood's an Ohio State killer? What if Bryce Underwood comes in as a true freshman and is like I'm ready for this like that. I think that certainly had at least just be a remote possibility as you tried to analyze this game and then it was just not, not at all true. There just was nothing there. They didn't really try much down the field. 8 of 18 passing for 63 yards just against a defense this good. Just. It was just not going to happen. It just was. It was. He was not able. We had talked about maybe high ceiling, low floor for Bryce Underwood, like understandable for a young quarterback against a defense this good. It just as it turns out, just wasn't going to happen.
- [65:22]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think you saw some of the confusion that maybe we were expecting him dropping back and not quite recognizing what Ohio State was going to do. And then again, I think like the, the threat of Arvel Reese spying and blitzing just can, can speed a quarterback up and it felt like that was happening. You know, he had a really nice throw down the seam.
- [65:43]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah. Kind of like one. Well, the one place you can hit the Ohio State defense sometime, right. Is that shot.
- [65:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even like, but even so like that play was like kind of covered pretty well, I thought.
- [65:53]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah.
- [65:53]
Bill Landis
And they still, they still completed it. But that was yeah, very tight window. But that was like the only really kind of threatening pass play Michigan had aside from defensive pass interference penalties on Ohio State. Really. And all those were on plays where they didn't really have to do that. Right. They were pretty well covered and they weren't great throws. If they would have just like kind of kept their hands off the receiver, the play just would have been an incomplete pass. So Ohio State's defense bailed him out a little bit on, on those plays. So yeah, I mean Bryce Underwood is a very good player. I, I, you know, fully expect for him to play better in this game moving forward. But in the first one, the true freshman looked like a true freshman.
- [66:29]
Doug Lemurice
So I sort of was waiting for Arville Reese to maybe be unleashed today. I mean he was very much more still in hover mode. Right. That a lot of spying a lot of you could see. I thought the play where he was sort of waiting in the middle of the field on where he crushed the dude on the little screen on third down. Right like that. That was Arvel Reese. I, I don't even know. I, I'll have to, we'll have to see what they'll have to go back and re. Watch it. I'm not even sure how many times he really rushed the passer that he was really kind of in spy mode, float mode. Take away the short passing game and obviously it worked. But that was how to decided to use him.
- [67:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think there were definitely a lot of times where he was up on the line ready to rush and dropped out. And he was either in as playing his own or he was. Or he was spying. But, you know, I think, you know, having him spy is a version, I guess, of unleashing him. It just so happened that Underwood didn't scramble a lot, so. So there weren't a lot of opportunities for our Arvella to. To make plays. But I thought he had a pretty big impact on the game still. Like. Like his presence mattered, even if he didn't really matters. Yeah, even if he'd. Even if he didn't stuff the stat sheet maybe the way that he thought he might. But that's because, like, you know, Michigan has to play into that with how they use Underwood. Right. And he wasn't scrambling a ton and they didn't use. You didn't do much in the way of designed run, as we said. So I guess there's like a, a trade off there, right. If you're Michigan, you feel like maybe you're kind of doing some stuff to, to lessen Arvell Reese's impact on the game. But even in doing so, he's having an impact on the game. Right. I think that's kind of the beauty of Raval Reese. So I think he's fine, like intense to kind of let other guys clean it up if that's what the game plan calls for. But. But I definitely still thought he had an impact on the game.
- [68:11]
Doug Lemurice
I mean, I think again, if we're doing a list of Ohio State Buckeyes who make the greatest impact just by being on the field, even if they not are not doing something particularly devastating on that play, just their presence changes the equation for the other 21 guys on the field. I think it's like maybe a Ted Gin Jr. Arvell Reese conversation. Like, again, because it's just of course, like Chase Young changes the conversation. Right? But I mean, like, I was like, well, we're going to chip him. We're going to slide a tight end, whatever, slide, protect, but like our value. Don't know exactly where he's. He's almost like a receiver like that. You don't know exactly where he's going to be. It's kind of like getting Jeremiah lined up in the slot or that kind of thing, right. You don't know what he's gonna do. So not only are you. You question your ability to stop him, you also have to figure out like, where he is and what he might be trying to do on that play and that it often is right at the line of scrimmage. Like, you know, Caleb obviously moves around a lot, but also he's still like more in the back 2/3. Arvell's in the front 2/3 of the field. And just that, that ability to be diverse as a defender, it's menacing whether he's coming after your quarterback or not, because he might come after your quarterback. And I think that's what you're saying. You could feel that today, even when a lot of times he was dropping or spying.
- [69:33]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Because. Oh like when he's on the edge and he's. And he's in his two point stance and he's crouching down like he's ready to explode out of it. Right. Because they're going to do. They're going to slide their protection that way. Right. And then they're just sliding to block nobody and it's just like a freeze. Other guy he has. We don't talk about defensive players in these terms that much, but he has gravity to him. Right. Like there you have to everything sort of. And Caleb Downs, I think is similar. Like those two guys, they're the pieces you can move around for, for the defense, but then they're also the two guys who I think the offense reacts to the most with what they're trying to do. So neither one of those guys was like, like had like whatever a nine tackle, three tackle for loss kind of game. But I, I do think very much so you could feel their presence making a difference.
- [70:14]
Doug Lemurice
For Ohio State it Sonny Styles 6 tackles, Davis and Big Gnosin and Jalen McLean and Kaden McDonald all with 5. Kaden Curry 4 tackles. Taiwan Malone 4 tackles, Caleb Downs 3. Lorenzo Styles 3. Kenyatta Jackson 3. Arvel Reese, 2. What'd you think of Kate McDonald in the backfield at fullback?
- [70:33]
Bill Landis
I liked it. I thought he blocked it well. And C.J. donaldson ran terribly. Yeah. On the play. I also think he might have scored. And they were. And they didn't count that one. It was weird. Like they called this the saying sneak a touchdown and like live was like there's no way you got in. But the Donaldson touched down the Donald's touchdown. I thought he did get in and they reviewed that one and then took it off the board. But I liked it. They kind of had the two blocking backs on the same side there and I thought created enough of a crease that they should have scored a touch, could have scored a touchdown. But that's like, you know, it's not the, it's not putting Ted Ginn Jr. At tight end, but it's a, it's a little bit of a thing to bring that, to bring that out on this game. Right. I like that idea too.
- [71:12]
Doug Lemurice
So we talked about that again. I did a whole big thing about the trick plays, which we like to talk about. But that moment, up a score in the middle of the third quarter to take the deep shot to Carnell Tate. It's Ohio State's version of a trick play because I guess their trick is our receivers can't be covered. That felt like in a situation where it was like, oh, right, that was after Ryan Day had punted earlier when it felt like maybe he should go for it. And then they wind up getting a stop and a lousy punt back, which sets up the opportunity here. It did feel only up one score at that point. Did it not feel necessary for Ohio State to be aggressive there? Even if, like, maybe they could have done the thing they wound up doing on the next drive, which is we're going to hand it off a bunch of times and try to march down the field. It felt in the moment like a time for aggression and they didn't work.
- [72:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah, you have to flex that muscle a little bit. Right. To, to put Michigan on its heels. I, I, it makes me want to go back and look at how much, how much like too high safety was Ohio State getting on that drive where it ran the ball 16 times because of that play from Carnell Tate. Right. Like that's, it's the thing when you play Ohio State that you're most afraid of. And like Jeremiah Smith's 35 yard touchdown was, was a version of that. But, but it's really like the, the big pass over the top that you're worried about. And, and to that point they hadn't actually tried it, to be honest. And the few times that they did, Michigan had it covered pretty well. So to hit it there just like, you know, it was mathematically probably not exactly a kill shot. But I think what it did for the momentum of the game and just sort of flipping kind of everything in Ohio State's favor really did feel like the moment where Ohio State won the game.
- [72:53]
Doug Lemurice
By the, the stats through Ohio State, Michigan, like the thing that they, the stat broadcast that they use big pass plays, those are defined as 15 yards or more. Four for Ohio State. They have one little check down for Bo Jackson actually went for 23. They have a 25 yarder to will Kaz America. Then they have the touchdown passes, 35 to car to Jeremiah and 50 to Carnell. One for Michigan, a 26 yarder. Long run plays at least 10 yards. Three for Michigan, for, for Ohio State. So that explosiveness, it's like you said, it's a muscle. It's a muscle that Ohio State has to exercise, but it's also an advantage that they have to exploit in this game, which is at times over the last four years. Are they exploiting that enough? You know, it's Michigan guys running behind Ohio State defensive backs because Jim Knowles has over blitzed, or they're. They're running a route and they're getting a matchup on Ohio State seventh best defensive back. And, and some of these things, it's like, how is this happening? Why aren't Ohio State receivers running behind guys? And then you get this situation where you take those two shots like that, that always is part of who Ohio State is, but it hasn't always been part of who Ohio State is in the game. And then when you show that side of you, then it allows you to put the game away with toughness, which is why toughness follows the explosion, I think. And so I think that again, what we've talked about already, all of that combined, that's Ohio State offensively at its best.
- [74:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And that play, if I recall correctly, Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate were on the same side of the formation, and there was one high safety there, and that safety, as it got into his back pedal, just started to drift a little bit toward Jeremiah. So, like Jeremiah took two guys and. And really like Carnell kind of ran through the middle of the defense unencumbered, and by the time he got to the closest defensive back who could have potentially covered him, he just blew his doors off. So, and, and I thought too, like that, when that ball came out of Julian Saying's hands, I thought maybe he might have overthrown him, but it just sort of hung up there quite nicely. And it did feel like at the end of that route, Carnell kind of turned on the afterburners a little bit to make sure he caught up to.
- [74:53]
Doug Lemurice
It, which was a nice reminder that the afterburners were there when needed.
- [74:59]
Bill Landis
Really good.
- [75:00]
Doug Lemurice
So also, just like on the. The efficiency game plan side of things, looking at Ohio State, they have the third downs broken by third and short, and then third and longs, third and short, between one and four yards to go on third down. Michigan was not in that situation all game. According to the stats here, Ohio state was in third and short 10 times and converted it seven times. So that's part of it. They were much more successful, but they were creating manageable situations to convert on third down. And. And Michigan wasn't so, like, they Popped a couple big runs, but they weren't running the ball consistently enough to get into third and twos and that kind of thing. And then the result is you have this.
- [75:40]
Bill Landis
Michigan's leverage rate which is just like how often are you not or in non passing downs. Ohio State's leverage rate was 74, which is pretty good. Michigan, Michigan's was 48. So okay, they were behind, they were behind the sticks quite a bit because they. How many times did Michigan run the ball in second and 10 for like nothing? Oh right. It happened. It happened quite a bit, you know. Yeah.
- [76:03]
Doug Lemurice
Heisman updated Heismanized Fernando Mendoza plus 100 Julian saying plus 135. Jeremiah Love from Notre Dame plus 500. It feels like it's not the primary conversation, but it's back to where a lot of people, us included, a lot of our listeners and viewers and subscribers have been talking about that. We, we may be in a situation where the Heisman is going to be decided in Indianapolis between Indiana and Ohio State. Fernanda Mendoza and Julian sand, you and I had talked about the idea of Jeremiah Smith returns and Jerem Smith blows the doors off the place. And Jeremiah Smith proves that like he's the guy that makes this passing offense go. Maybe he gets into the race certainly effective and mattered in this game. But three, three catches for 40 yards. Like, wasn't that Julian saying 19 of 26 for 233 and three touchdowns? I think did. Did what he needed to do to win the game and then that is the best way to be a Heisman candidate as a quarterback for the Ohio State Buckeyes. And I, I think. Do you agree we're down to Mendoza versus Saying for the Heisman and for the Big Ten championship next Saturday?
- [77:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think, I think the winning quarterback who or yeah, I guess would have to be the winning quarterback, it could be like if they both ball out, I don't know. But whichever quarterback wins that game, I think will win the Heisman. Like and I think like Marcel Reed is out of it, but I guess we can see what Ty Simpson does tonight to maybe get himself back into like finalist conversation. Perhaps Jeremiah Love seems very well positioned to be a finalist, but I don't think anybody's catching Mendoza or saying and whichever one of those plays the best and wins next Saturday is going to win it.
- [77:46]
Doug Lemurice
So you said you were waiting a little bit after the game, hanging out a little bit just like any more like post game vibes as you're kind of watching Ohio State go to the bus.
- [77:56]
Bill Landis
Victors No, I mean, yeah, like, it wasn't. I. I wanted to be out there just in case, like, crazy stuff did happen or, you know, something out of the ordinary was there and I could be there to spot it. Like, it really. It really kind of. Kind of wasn't. And I don't know if that's, like, they're saving it for when they get back to Columbus, which could very well be the case, or it's just sort of in line with their approach to this game, which was like, routine, routine, routine. And so it's like, okay, well, if that's the case, then you act the same way after a game. Right? So I. I don't. I'm not saying they were like, whatever, quiet. They weren't. They were clearly very excited that they won this game, but nothing like, super out of the ordinary. If I'm being. If I'm being totally honest, trying to think if I saw anything aside from Katie McDonald running around, not even running around, just sort of walking around with the Ohio against the world flag. No, it was mostly just people, like, wrangling players, making sure they're getting on the right bus, and I think them wanting to get out of here expeditiously. As the snow continued to worsen.
- [79:01]
Commercial Announcer
If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [79:31]
Commercial Announcer 2
Come to DSW for the shoes, stay for the fun. Because let's be honest, if shoe shopping isn't fun, are you even doing it right? So go ahead, try something new. Try something different, good different.
- [79:42]
Doug Lemurice
Try.
- [79:42]
Commercial Announcer 2
Try something that feels like you. You know, the real you. And then definitely brag about it later. Because at dsw, you've got unlimited freedom to play with sneakers, boots, and everything in between. For every style, mood and occasion. You'll definitely find shoes that get you at prices that get your budget. Dsw, let us surprise you.
- [80:04]
Doug Lemurice
Bill Landis, Great job from Ann Arbor. You have a. I think you sent me, like, three messages. Hey, can you publish my story as I go down to the field? I didn't see any of them, and I never published your story, so I'm Assuming you publish your story.
- [80:14]
Bill Landis
I did.
- [80:14]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah.
- [80:15]
Bill Landis
Back up.
- [80:17]
Doug Lemurice
We'll have coverage on our substack. Bill and Doug oashu.substack.com There's still a free trial that you take you through next Friday. You put backslash the game special at the end of that substack. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com We'll have writing all week. We'll have a Sunday sound off with comments and questions just for our subscribers on substack Tomorrow, expect around the shoe on Monday. Recapping this game again and looking ahead to the Big Ten championship game. Ohio State versus Indiana. It's gonna be a banger, Bill. I think it's gonna be like an absolute banger. And I know we've had some people asking questions in the chat. Does anybody care? Is everybody gonna try? Are people gonna rest starters? I think these teams care. And, and I think. I think it is possible to individually care. It's not. This is unique. There's nothing like the game. There's nothing like this rivalry. But it is an example of it is possible to care about an individual game sake, and that game matters. There are stakes to an individual game, even if the result of the game does not greatly influence the larger goal. I do not think it has to mean or I do not think it does mean that people don't care about the thing in the moment. So I'm expecting a banger with two teams who, for the sake of that game and that, that championship trophy and that moment, really want to win. I don't think Indiana. And by the way, they're probably both going to get buys regardless, so they're going to have plenty of time to recover for the playoff run. And of course that is more important. But I certainly, I don't think we are at the point where this is meaningless. And for some reason we are. Then you've got to change college football because it's the number one and number two teams in the country, the last two undefeated teams in the country who have not met this season playing kind of like between their campuses for a trophy. Like, I know it's not the national championship game, and I know it's not the game. This is like the third best thing that Ohio State could play in a 12 undefeated game for the Big Ten title. That they care huge. That's huge.
- [82:31]
Bill Landis
They, when they were running, walking up the tunnel and into the locker room and even a couple of guys, like, walking to the bus, they were talking about going to Indy. Like, this is this has been a goal for this team.
- [82:41]
Doug Lemurice
Okay.
- [82:41]
Bill Landis
The team has three goals, beat Michigan, win the Big Ten title, win the national title. The only one they had done prior to today over the last four years was win the national title. So they're not going to let it go to waste. Right. Like, I don't think any team's going to rest players. They're going to have a month after that game to get ready for whichever quarterfinal, playoff game they're playing in. Who knows when Indiana might have a chance to play for the Big Ten football title again. I'm not saying they're going to go anywhere, but like getting back to the Big Ten title game will not be easy for that program. They're in a little bit of a window, I think, to do that. So they're gonna put their best foot forward and it matters to Ohio State to win the Big Ten title. Let me just tell you that. So I. Whether or not fans care or whatever is one thing the team cares. Like they're gonna, they're gonna get. Get ready for it. I think it is going to be a banger on Saturday.
- [83:27]
Doug Lemurice
You want to do half an hour on Lane Kiffin?
- [83:28]
Bill Landis
Are you good? Is he gone?
- [83:31]
Doug Lemurice
Sources expect him to take the LSU job apparently. Two farts about it. I don't care where Lane Kiffin works as long as he doesn't work in Columbus, Ohio. Okay. Lane Kiffin is the coach of Michigan now. That could be. That get a little spicy. It's not gonna happen.
- [83:51]
Bill Landis
I wonder, do you think fail at lsu. Did you catch any of Sharon Morris post game?
- [83:57]
Doug Lemurice
I did not.
- [83:57]
Bill Landis
Just wonder if he's getting a little heat.
- [83:58]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't. Oh, what do you mean?
- [84:02]
Bill Landis
Just like weird. I thought it was weird game plan. I thought it was a.
- [84:06]
Doug Lemurice
Let's end on that.
- [84:07]
Bill Landis
Whatever your.
- [84:08]
Doug Lemurice
Your evaluation of Michigan's performance today, outside of the fact that Ohio State has the number one defense in the country and has two first round receivers who each caught long touchdown passes. Ohio State did Ohio State things. You thought Michigan did not put its best foot forward.
- [84:20]
Bill Landis
I thought they waved the white flag a little bit like a little early. Okay. Yeah. And it's like it's a credit to Ohio State's defense for putting Michigan in that position. Of course that's where it starts. But I thought it got pretty conservative pretty quickly. Okay. And I just like, I wonder if he's getting any heat for that.
- [84:37]
Doug Lemurice
Okay, interesting. All right. Like subscribe, tell a friend. We appreciate everybody. Well over a thousand folks here hanging out on The Bill and Doug post game show. Just incredibly grateful. We hope you guys had just a fantastic Thanksgiving week with friends and family. We know how much this means to you guys. We know how it, it changes the sort of the course of your year in a lot of ways. I hope everybody has a wonderful and safe and exciting Saturday and there are very, very, very interesting and exciting football games ahead. So it is a privilege, and I think Bill and I certainly understand this and we want to extend that to you guys. It's a privilege for us to be part of this, for us to have this dedicated, educated, loyal fan base place to hang out with, to talk with, not talk to, because you guys help educate us about what this means. And I do think the a thing that makes me feel very good about this is I really feel good about where the Ohio State program is in relationship to the fan base. And it's been a long road for 365 days. But I thought rather than running to plant a flag at midfield of Michigan Stadium to do something to Michigan, that the players chose to go into their stands and celebrate with those fans, with Ohio State fans. I thought that was reflective and indicative of where this program is. And football is always better when the team and the fans are connected. And to have that sea of scarlet say, this is this. We're gonna do this together. It's not about they can guard what they want to guard. That's not what it's about. It's not about showing them something. It's inward. So in the end, if Ryan Day turned this game inward. So it's about what's in the hearts and minds of Ohio State football players. It's not about all of this. It's not about history. It's not about fights and, and past hatred. It's about what's in here. Then they turned it inward in the post game, too. And the N word is it's good to our fans. It's not. It's not go out there. And so I think if that's going to be the. The definition of how Ryan Day handles the game and handles this rivalry, I think he's laid something down Bill, that next year and going forward because 2019, you're trying to survive. You've never been in this before. He wins, great. But he doesn't have a handle on it fully. All he knows is he feels a burden, relieved by not failing as the head coach in his first time in the game. And then it got sideways for a variety of reasons. Some that he could control and some that he could not. But I think he. He has shown now that he should have a much better handle on this going forward. And I don't think we won't next year be going like, oh, what are they doing? Oh, my gosh, they're flying up. Oh, the band's not in here. It's like, we know what Ryan Day does the week of the game now, and I think that's going to be something that's good for everybody.
- [87:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I agree. And I also took note of. It goes. Kind of goes hand in hand with what you're saying. But with Ryan Day, this has. Excuse me, a couple of questions about what this means for him and how he feels and what it says about his, like, legacy and stuff like that. He kind of pushed that aside and talked about Ohio State fans, right.
- [87:34]
Doug Lemurice
And.
- [87:35]
Bill Landis
And all the people he knows, like, how much this means to them. And it's in line with what he did in the postseason last year. Right. When they landed in Atlanta to play the national title game against Notre Dame, he took a very similar sort of tact, like, talking about this like, they were there, but they weren't there by themselves. They were there with. With the fan base behind them, and they wanted to embrace that and kind of put their arms around each other. And he continued that after this game. I think, think that's great to say it before you play Notre Dame and, and it's awesome to win a national title. I don't know that it can actually be true until you win this game. Right. And then he. And then he did. So I thought it was pretty cool.
- [88:16]
Doug Lemurice
I'll tell you what. Ryan Day and the Ohio State fans had a little spat. You got. You guys had a little fight for a while, but if you really care about each other, when you have a fight and then you get through it, you come out the other side, the relationship stronger. And I think that happened with this program and the fans, and it is a tremendous credit to Ohio State football from where it was 365 days ago to where it is right now. This has been, Bill, a remarkable 160 run. And I do really think it is simultaneously the end of something and it is the beginning of something. So I think this is. This is the last game of that run. It is the last game of a run that started with the first game after the Michigan loss last year.
- [88:58]
Bill Landis
Year.
- [88:59]
Doug Lemurice
And it is also. Today was the first game of the playoffs for Ohio State in 2025. So they are. They capped off a 16. 0 run. And they are also 10 in this playoff pursuit of trying to repeat as national champions for the first time in Ohio State history. So that's two wins.
- [89:18]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And they are like, you know, to the previous point about motivation in Indianapolis, they're trying to be perfect national champions. Like if they lose a Big Ten title game, they can still win the national title, but they won't be perf perfect. And that's a heck of a thing to chase. So they're, they're very much going to chase that.
- [89:35]
Doug Lemurice
I like Kurt Signetti. I think he's a terrific, he's a terrific coach. No, I thought everybody knows that. Feels like the kind of guy you kind of want to beat. And they did it last year.
- [89:45]
Bill Landis
That too. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
- [89:48]
Doug Lemurice
But like, to his credit, he stands up for his program. But like Ohio State, I think would take great satisfaction in greeting beating Kurt Signetti, just like Kurt Signetti would take great satisfaction beating Ohio State. So we'll look forward to that. We'll have coverage all week here on this YouTube channel on these podcast feeds the Bill and do Doug show. Like subscribe, tell a friend and if you really want in depth Ohio State content, it's two extra podcasts a week just for subscribers on the substack. It's a lot of written content. It's an active chat, especially on game day. But also during the week we've we figured out how to do surveys over there and ask fans about their opinions about this team. We're always taking questions and trying to answer them in mailbags are on podcasts. It's a, it's a robust Ohio State fan base that we are lucky to serve. Over on our substack, Bill and Doug osu.substack.com thanks everybody for being here. Have a great Saturday. Have a great end to this Thanksgiving week, Ohio State beats Michigan 27 to 9 in Ann Arbor. He's Bill Landis in Columbus. I'm Doug Lemurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [90:58]
Commercial Announcer
If you're looking for new ways to get ahead, then you're our kind of person. We're Udemy and we help learners like you upskill in AI productivity, leadership and management and more. Learn at your own pace from real world experts. You can also prep for certifications that show employers what, you know, upskill for the career you want@udemy.com now back to your regularly scheduled listening.
- [91:28]
Commercial Announcer 2
This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility, he knows keeping the line up and running is a top priority. That's why he chooses Grainger because when a drive belt gets damaged, Grainger makes it easy to find the exact specs for the replacement product he needs, and next day delivery helps ensure he'll have everything in place and running like clockwork. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.