← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State beats Ohio: Postgame reaction as Jeremiah Smith leads No. 1 Buckeyes to 3-0 start
01:03:32
The No. 1-ranked Ohio State Buckeyes beat the Ohio Bobcats in Ohio Stadium on Saturday, as receiver Jeremiah Smith put up huge stats and freshman running back Bo Jackson topped 100 yards and made a serious play to be the lead back for the Buckeyes.
Loading summary
Transcript65 lines
- [00:01]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indeed Data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.comBWN just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [01:21]
B
Welcome to the Jalen and Jalen Post Game Show. Jalen Lemarice Jalen Landis will be along soon and we will talk about this Ohio State victory over The Ohio Bobcats 37 to nine. Ohio State wins. They are three and oh, they are the number one team in the country, 572 to 181 in total yardage. I am not in the home office. I am in the hotel office. I'll give you a little sprinkle of what my day was like. But we are here to talk about Ohio State. And I said that Jalen stuff because the Peacock broadcast called everybody Jalen all the time. Little Basic man. Little Basic man on the Peacock network. Sometimes it's fine, it's over. Ohio State goes into a bye week now at Washington in two weeks. Next time they take the field, Bill Landis will join us. He's going to go to the Ryan Day post game and he'll come with some hot fresh information about what Ryan Day said about the game. But let's start with a couple things that really matter. We will get into a little bit of the red zone stuff because I'm sure you guys are curious about that and that is not new. And most of you here live with us on YouTube. We certainly appreciate you guys being here. If you're listening back on a podcast or watching back on YouTube, you know that this is something that pops up with this passing offense that sometimes they can get a little bogged down in the red zone also. And listen, like this is where Ryan Day's head is. He talked about it at, at halftime when he came up the field. They just did the postgame interview on the field and he's obsessed with their lack of red zone production and not scoring touchdowns in the first half. But there's a lot of other really good things that happen for Ohio State. They were really good in the red zone last year in scoring touchdowns. They are, they, they usually are kind of mediocre. They have peaks and it'll be curious whether this could still be a peak year. I think a couple things have to happen. We don't have to obsess with that right now. I want to talk about Bo Jackson. We want to talk about the explosives because I think one of the things that happens with Ohio State and I think you. We've talked about this over the years too. I've been doing this a long time. You almost with Ohio State are waiting for the big play and it feels like a dangerous way to live sometimes. Like, oh well, they're kind of messing around. It's a close game but they'll have a big play. And you think to yourself like well what, what might happen if they don't? And then they do and then Bo Jackson rips off a 64 yard run and then they hit two deep shots. Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, they did get matched up in some one on one coverage in this game. That that is not what Ohio brings primarily. There were some situations they pulled some safeties down and you know Chris Sims is diagnosing it when he's not calling people by the wrong name. But they hit some stuff and every time Smith or Tate wound up it one on one with somebody, it felt like Julian saying at least wanted to get the ball to them and that's going to be a huge thing. I, I talked with Cardinal Tate about that during the week that they want one on one matchups and they feel like if teams are going to play man and listen just some. It's not that they were just like playing man a ton but they get, you get in matchups right. That's what these receivers thrive on. And that opportunity, the idea, I think it's. We've seen, you know, some of the things with Julian saying who did have two weird picks again. Like is it. Is there a desperate. Oh my God. Julian saying through two picks. No, no, I don't think There is, but he's, he's recognizing opportunities and I think he is sort of immensely talking himself through the idea of am I taking the shot, am I taking the shot? And he took those shots today probably more than he did in the first week against Texas, for instance. And so that's what's coming against Washington. Washington plays Ryan Walters is their defensive coordinator, former Purdue head coach. He got the Purdue head coaching job off being the defensive coordinator at Illinois where he had NFL corners and they played a bunch of man coverage and they were excellent at it. They were so good he got a Big Ten coaching job. Washington has two possible pro corners in Ephesians Price Sock and Takario Davis. And so I think Washington, who was off this week, they play Washington State in the Apple cup next week, might try it. And you got a taste tonight of what happens when teams try it. So we know Carnell Tate, he talked about it this week, he was super excited about that. So to take advantage of that. And Ohio State comes out of this game with two 100 yard receivers and 100 yard back and you will take that every day of the week. Bo Jackson, nine carries, 109. Jeremiah Smith, nine catches, 153 yards in the touchdown. Cardinal Tate, five catches, 101 yards in a touchdown. Max Claire got his first touchdown. Jeremiah Smith also scored on the little reverse that they ran from the 17 yard line for a touchdown there. That felt like it's not every time they find a way to get the ball to Jeremiah Smith in the red zone. It doesn't mean it was a Brian Hartline special, but they had that play last year, right? The little route that everyone made a big deal that Bama, right, had run 10 years before and Brian Hartline brought that in in the playoffs. So I'll be curious what Ryan Day might say about that little reverse flip with three, three lead blockers who weren't even needed then for Jeremiah Smith. So I think to sort of be assuming that the explosive plays are there and then they are, there is a reminder that Ohio State is still Ohio State. And I think a lot of us were wondering, especially in the run game if they were going to be that right. So we need some evaluation. Lorenzo Styles too. Landis is going to have some conversation about that. I want to wait for some of this stuff for Landis because I want to make sure we get his take on that. Brandon. And as I understand people are talking about. But also I've. It's not. I've learned a lesson. I, I do. There's Certainly questions. Certainly questions. After a game like this, they're, they're in a seven point game with the Mac team, right? And it's like, okay, well what's going on? And it's like, okay, they're Ohio State foreign. Don't take wins for granted. And let me run through something that should remind us of not taking wins for granted. Jayla McLean. We're making fun of them calling everybody Jalen. If they're calling Jeremiah Smith and Julian saying Jalen because they're confusing them with Jalen McLean, maybe that's a good thing because like 22 Jalen McLean's is probably going to win you a game. Man, that guy. And like the targeting review, everybody in college football is like, if this is targeting, if Jalen McLean blows up a guy, lines him up, you could see Jalen McLean in lining this guy up. Still thinking about, I'm not getting my head involved. I'm going to make sure that I do this the right way. And it's like, are you serious? Like if his face mask brushed a guy. So anyway, I can't, I didn't bring my sword because I have to fly back. So I couldn't bring my sword. People are asking, where's my sword? I still have the swords. I can't fly with Swords. Top 15 in the preseason poll. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, seven of those top 15 teams we are in week three have already lost. One of them has lost twice and an eighth team, South Carolina, as we speak is probably going to lose. They are trailing 24, seven to Vanderbilt. So most of the time in, in my time covering Ohio State. Good to see everybody. Nicholas. Turkey bass. Kyle. Just. It's great to feel everybody here. The south can cram it, can't they? Clemson? Cram it so hard. Clemson. I picked them to go 14 and oh, and be like the number one seed in the playoff. But I'll even cram myself because it feels so good to tell Clemson to cram it. Don't take this for stuff for granted because there are, there are so many good teams who are struggling much worse than anything that Ohio State is or isn't doing right now. Is Ohio State perfect right now? No. Do we all. Does Ohio State hold itself to a high standard? Of course. Do you guys hold Ohio State to a high standard? Of course. Does the media hold Ohio State to a high standard? Of course. I think we need to be aware of the standards around the country. So let's run through the top 15 very quickly to have people cram it and Also to remind ourselves of what it's like out there sometimes. Texas number one Texas. This is preseason rankings. Lost to Ohio State. I wasn't watching it. Lance says, cram it, Doug. I will. I'll cram it. I will self cram if I I will self cram as much as I need to cram as long as I can cram the south at the same time, I think they boot Arch Manning today. I didn't watch that game but like there's people on Twitter saying they're booing Arch Manning the where we are. Prince says Prince Mario, Texas look rough too. Arch is not the guy. Can you imagine, can you imagine if that was the Ohio State conversation? Julian saying's not the guy they're booing. Julian saying okay, so think about where Texas is. That's the preseason number one. Penn State preseason number two. They haven't lost, but they haven't played anybody. Struggles just weird, weird struggles. So like many more questions around Penn State than around Ohio State. Ohio State number three in the preseason. Clemson number four in the preseason lost to LSU, lost to Georgia Tech today one and two to start the season for the first time since 2014. They might be done now. You're done. You only have one conference loss. If you make the ACC title game and win that title game, you're in just like they did last year. But I no one's going to talk about Clemson the way a lot of people, including me, including Landis were talking about Clemson coming into the year. Think about what it would be like if Ohio State was where Clemson is right now. One of the Arch was the preseason betting favorite. The Heisman Kate Club might have been second. Think about where they are right now. That was the number four preseason team right behind Ohio State. Clemson's 1 and 2 after a loss to Georgia Tech today, Georgia was five have struggled. Should have lost to Tennessee today. Now should have lost to Tennessee to George's credit. And if you guys didn't watch it, Gunner Stockton made a ridiculous touchdown throw on fourth and 10 and then they converted the two point conversion when they were down eight late and then the Georgia defense allowed Tennessee to drive for the winning field goal. Then they missed the field goal and then it went into overtime and Tennessee had kind of like a goofy play and then they kicked the field goal and then Georgia scored and won by three. Georgia the Georgia that we think of the national championship. Georgia. The first Georgia national championship was fueled by one of the greatest defenses in college football history. The second Georgia national championship was fueled by a quarterback who made plays when you needed them. I don't that maybe Gunner Stockton. Frankly, some people ask for the I give my blessing to young Gunnar Stockton who rose up today and is worthy of a comparison to Stetson Bennett after that kind of heroic performance. I Gunar Stockton has not been good early. He made two. He made a ridiculous touchdown throw that saved them and then they kind of got lucky at the end. But that Georgia defense is not there. They let Tennessee march right down the field with the game on the line and then they just got lucky. Great field goal defense. The guy missed the kick. Georgia has more questions. They credit to Georgia. I don't have my hat credit to Georgia, but also they got lucky today. Tennessee missed a field goal in the last play of the game that would have won it and then the guy in overtime made the same field goal that he had missed in regular in regulation. Notre Dame lost to Miami to open the year. I thought it was a pretty good loss. They are currently tied at the end of the third quarter with Texas A M. Notre Dame. Some people were calling this a must win for Notre Dame. It's, it's, it's close. For those of you who like seasons being ruined in September, if they start oh and two, the rest of their schedule might not have enough juice for them to get in at 10 and 2 and I picked them to win the national championship. I'm a curse this year.
- [13:26]
C
I'm a curse my whole career.
- [13:27]
B
Notre Dame is in worse shape than Ohio State. Oregon looks great. I watched Oregon against Northwestern today. They look great. Alabama lost to Florida State. They're kind of getting it back a little bit. But congratulations to mighty Alabama, the modern dynasty, for beating the 13th best team in the Big Ten today. Great. Bama beat Wisconsin. Congratulations all around. Kaylin DeBoer is here to stay. LSU like kind of messing around with Florida a little bit today, right? And now like the Clemson win, it's like, oh, LSUB Clemson. It's like, yeah, everybody beats Clemson. I don't know how I'm impressed. How impressed am I supposed to be by them beating Clemson? So it looks like LSU's gonna beat Florida. They're up 20 to 10 with 10 minutes left. Although Florida has the ball, they could still blow that. But anyway, they struggled last week against Louisiana Tech. They don't look perfect. Miami looks great. Arizona State lost to Mississippi State, Illinois looks good. South Carolina is going to lose to Vanderbilt, Michigan lost to Oklahoma and Florida lost to South Florida. That's the top 15 we're going to wind up with eight of the top 15 losing games in the first three week of the season and Clemson losing twice. That's just what I'm saying. Okay, let's keep this in mind in any evaluation of Ohio State because Ohio State wasn't perfect, but they did a lot of good things. You, you have to still believe in what they do anytime you give them a shot in the passing game. I think probably the thing that people were worried about the most in the, in the Texas opener was Julian saying, not taking that fourth down shot to Jeremiah Smith. And it's like, you can't live in that world when you have this kind of skill, this kind of game plan, you've got to take the shot. So they took the shot. Lots of mediocrity thus far, says Prince Mario. Looks like early season football. Agreed. But still, like, that's kind of the point. So in the pursuit of perfection, let's just remember where things stand. Okay? A couple people have been asking about this. I don't want to filibuster to get to Landis, but I want to save some of the stuff for Landis. We'll talk about Bo Jackson next. I want to talk about this. Kyle mentioned love the late Jeremiah touchdown to pad the Heisman stats. One thing about the Jeremiah Smith situation right now is that I, I did wonder about a little bit is balancing this between not letting defenses take him away, not forcing the ball to him. And I feel like that conversation is over. It certainly is. I thought, I think the way they have handled Jeremiah Smith, the way they have gotten him the ball, making sure he gets his hands on it, but it does not feel forced. It does not feel forced to me. Does it feel forced to you guys at all? I. I just think is a, A tribute to them because it's not the first four games of Marvin Harrison Jr. Second year, his junior year, but after he had the huge sophomore year. So it's completely comparable to what they're facing with Jeremiah Smith now. They could not get the ball to Marvin Harrison Jr. For a month. They couldn't figure it out. So Jeremiah seems kind of frustrated lately. I don't. We sense that. I don't. I don't sense that. 9 for 153. I think he's good. I think he's good. So people ask about my shirt. It's. I got it. I went to Wimbledon one time. So it's like half green and half purple. So that's. That's what that. That's what my.
- [16:27]
C
That's what my shirt is.
- [16:31]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster, faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indeed Data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring run right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@indoubtedly.comBWN just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [17:48]
B
My daughter is a senior in college. I brought her back to college. She starts class this week. She attends Northwestern. It was big noon at Northwestern. She was excited about that. So I went over with her and we kind of hung out at big noon. We went over very early and she it was raining and it was raining really hard. We got soaked early on and then there weren't many people there, but she got a good spot. And I will say three things about my older daughter. She loves her school, she loves ball, and she loves the North. And that led to this. For those of you who are watching on YouTube, she was in the front row. She put this note on her phone. It reads, the SEC is full of frauds. And she held it up to the camera and they panned to her and they, they. She got like her three seconds of fame. And then beyond that, they. The big Noon kickoff Twitter account retweeted this and said, check out the message this Northwestern fan has for the sec. And it's like, well, she's. She's a. She's a queen of the north, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't. I don't know what to tell you. So it was a wonderful thing. She's very excited. It's funny. But it's also funny because it's true, because the SEC is full of frauds. As we just Ran through I think Alabama. So congratulations to my daughter for getting on tv. We had a good time and then I stayed and I did watch Oregon Northwestern in the little stadium by the lake. It was cool. Dante Moore is really good hit like a really nice touchdown pass to Kenyan Sadiq. We had said this week that Bill and I think that Oregon, Miami and Ohio State look like the three best teams in the country right now. Vanderbilt's gonna be South Carolina and then we can just hear about Vanderbilt. Oh, Vanderbilt's gonna make the playoff because although two South Carolina's quarterback got hurt but guess what, sometimes your quarterback is hurt and maybe you still have to find a way to not lose by 23 to Vanderbilt. So where Ohio State is right now, I do think the let's have a little bit of a Julian saying conversation. The Texas game was sort of like I don't know if protect Julian saying is the right word but just don't ask too much of him. Ryan Day said that and then they could they won the way they won and they didn't have to put it on Julian saying the Grambling State game is just sort of like free money and then this game was right in the middle and so then there's a couple different difficult spots in that and I will be curious what because for instance Gunner Stockton, first year starter Georgia got in a situation where they needed Gunner Stockton to win the game and Gunner Stockton made the play to one them the win them the game. CJ Carr against Miami in week one they needed CJ Car. They got in a position where they needed CJ Carr to lead them back and give them a chance to win and he did it. Julian St. Hasn't been in that spot. I think there's a chance he gets in that spot in the next four games and I think this four game stretch coming up for Ohio State before Penn State is super interesting at Washington home, Minnesota at Illinois, at Wisconsin. It is the type of games you don't expect Ohio State to lose. But by the way, I do think the middle of the Big Ten is better and I, I will not be shocked as we run all through, through all these teams that have had some struggles. If Julian saying gets put in that spot and I don't know if there's anybody watching or listening who would say I don't believe that Julian saying can do it. I did think some of the red zone stuff. I thought he moved well outside the pocket and made some throws when he had to create. You know, the touchdown pass to Max Claire is an example of that. What would have been the touchdown pass to CJ Donaldson if he hadn't stepped out of boundaries, out of bounds by a millimeter was an example of that. And I think that's the kind of stuff that really excites Ryan Day, because, again, the baseline is accuracy, processing. Make the right reads, know what you're seeing, be able to talk it back to me. But then the bonus territory is. When it goes wrong, what do you do? Can you be tough? Can you make a play? Can you find a way? And I thought we saw examples of Julian saying, doing that. The first pick tonight, that defensive tackle didn't rush, he dropped. He kind of hovered right there at the line of scrimmage and was sort of waiting to maybe just sit in the passing lane and tip a pass. I thought that was mostly stuff happens. And then the second one is, he's getting hit, he's going down. I think he just has to eat that sack and not try to do something. Instead, he's sort of trying to make a throw and the ball pops out of his hands and it kind of lands in the arms of an Ohio guy. But I think a lot of it, you. He's not confused, right? I think he's trying. He's. You can sort of at times see him process in the game in real time, but he's not lost the Keen Holtz that we can't call. So listen, Kyle says, doug, please ask about Lincoln Keenholz getting the tape package. It's not the tape package. I asked Lincoln Keenholz this week if there is a package for him, if we should expect a package for him. He kind of said, I don't know. I said, if we do see it, can we call it the presidential package? And he said, cram it, old man. No, he didn't. But he said it with his eyes. We're not calling the tape package, right? I mean, like, that was a time and a place. We're getting. We're getting. Tate Martell is selling crypto in Vegas, right? That is an old reference. It's the presidential package. And I thought the one time they brought it in, it really worked. Now, there was the goofy thing at the end where they got the off after the play, the penalty that knocked him back, but the actual conversion, he ran hard. They blocked it up. Well, he looked physical. I think he gave you exactly what you want to do. I do think in some of the red zone or short yardage stuff, you either need a quarterback run threat or you need an absolute bruiser that is going to break a tackle at running back that you know is going to get you that yard or two kind of no matter what happens in front of them. And so I think they have an opportunity to find either of those. I think they have an opportunity to find both of those and maybe they're finding it with Bo Jackson. So I'm not trying to like slow play Bo Jackson. This is one of those. Coming out of the Grambling game, the two names that people reasonably wanted to talk about were Riley Petta John and Bo Jackson, justifiably so. But they were just in such different positions about what it meant that they flashed against Grambling State. And so we're not talking about Riley Pettigon Knight right now just because he's behind three really good linebackers and he's a, a true freshman and he'll have plenty of time there. And they're set at linebacker if they had Sunny Styles, Norvell Reese at running back. And by the way, like, if you really thought you weren't getting enough hammer time or explosiveness at running back, I might say put Sonny Stiles Narvele, recent running back, I actually think it probably would work. So. But they don't have that. No offense to C.J. donaldson and James Peoples, but they aren't Sunny Styles and Arvell Reese. So Bo Jackson has an opportunity and we want Bill's going to bring this to us. It's the main thing he wanted to go to Ryan Day postgame for. I think he wanted to hear like a second version. Ryan, they said on the field a second version of what they saying about the red zone. Because we do want to touch on that. We'll talk. I think we'll dive into it more on the Sunday Sound off for our Substack subscribers on Sunday morning. But what's Ryan Day going to say about Bo Jackson? Because we talked about this a lot. It was a main topic on around the Shoe last Monday. That's our little show where we have two other Ohio State beat writers come on and join us and talk about Hot Topics. And there was no hotter topic than Bo Jackson. They got here. It's one of these things as an Ohio State fan, right? This has been the ruthlessness conversation. This has been the loyalty conversation. This has been older guys and are you going to play a younger guy? It, it's, it's a very, I think, common conversation in college football. I actually think probably in the nil world and portal world is getting less common because I don't know how loyal you can be in the nil and portal world. And frankly it was always one of those where you've got it. Like everyone says the locker room knows you can't be putting guys on the field where when the locker room knows there's a better guy. But sometimes, like if a guy really was. Had grounded out in his career and you wanted to tip your cap to that, I think we're probably out of that. Because if you have a talented freshman who feels like he's not getting an opportunity, you might lose him if you don't play him. I think they're there on Bo Jackson and I, I'm basing this on what we all saw and even Chris Sims said it right. I don't think he called him Jalen Jackson. 9 for 109 for Bo Jackson, 7 for 47 for James Peoples, 9 for 39 to CJ Donaldson. I think they were talking about their conversation with Ryan Day and the shorthand he used is that Donaldson's the hammer, Peoples has quickness and Jackson is the home run hitter. And the 64 yarder from Bo Jackson, you saw that. But I actually think Jackson is also like the most decisive and the, the decisiveness leads to power. Right then I, I think we understand that C.J. donaldson, he kind of was out at West Virginia in a two running back approach. He was more the Thunder. And Jaheim White, who's unfortunately out for the season, although congratulations to West Virginia, did not see that coming. Congratulations to Rich Rod. And West Virginia went in the bra. The backyard brawl at overtime today. Two overtime games in the middle, the middle session that felt like they were both over. And West Virginia came back and forced overtime and won. And Georgia against Tennessee came back and forced overtime and won one. I, I don't know that you like in a big game right now. I don't think you're playing all three equally. And it was pretty equal today. I think it was an experiment, but I think there might have been years in the past where all of us would have been talking about a player by Bo Jackson and nothing happened. And now it happened. So the thing that I like about Bo Jackson is he had the 64 yard run, but if you take that out, he still is at eight carries for 45 yards, which is like five and a half yards per carry. So that's good. Sometimes one big run can cover up kind of like an average day otherwise. And again, Chris Sims was talking about the broadcast and I think we all believe this. He just looks the most decisive to the hole now. I actually think once Bo Got in there and started doing his thing. It almost like made CJ Donaldson look a little more decisive. Now part of that might be like, hey, they're blocking it up better. Ohio's not doing anything to stop them. And so everybody looks decisive. But I also think sometimes it's like if the freshman looks like this, man, maybe I better look like this. I think in the end, would you guys agree with this? The best solution probably for Ohio State is Bo Jackson as the lead back and C.J. donaldson as the two. And if you wind up in a game with 28 running back carries that, it's like 18 for bow and 10 for Donaldson and. Or, or it's 15 for bow and 10 for donaldson and three for peoples. Because you don't want to lose him completely, right? I mean, I just, I think that's probably where you are and I think it's where they will get to. So I think sometimes there's still. I don't know if it's worry, it's curiosity, probably not concern curiosity of will the coaches get to where the fans and the media's eyeballs are. And then we talk about things like ball security, which Ryan Day brought up. Jason says, I don't think the running back depth chart changes yet. See, oh, we talk about ball security, we talk about blitz pickup, right? I think somebody had a good bliss pickup tonight on one of the throws. I think maybe people's. So that matters. But I think they talking about this was the Trayvon roll. And it's one of those things where I think sometimes. So if Day is characterizing it as Donaldson's the Hammer, Peoples is the quick guy and Jackson is the home run hitter. And I would say, well, I think Jackson is the home run hitter and also maybe Thunder, right? Maybe. Maybe a physical guy at the line of scrimmage. I think the point with this offense is this point. This offense needs a home run hitter at running back. I don't think a home run hitter at running back is a bonus or a surplus. I think it is a primary part of the functionality of this offense that, that having that threat in the backfield makes teams back off a little bit in pass coverage or if you are destroying people in the passing game and they're playing too high safeties and now you have a running back where if he can make one guy miss in the hole, he's not going to get six, he's going to get 20. I think that's really important. NBA fan says Bo isn't Trey or JK either. Let that be known too. I agree, but because that's a high bar. And so I think sometimes at Ohio State and talking about Ohio State, it's worth comparing Ohio State to itself and its past because it's the best standard for Ohio State. But sometimes you just have to compare to what's available. So I don't think Bo Jackson is as explosive as Travion Henderson, as Peak Trayvon Henderson. And I. And I don't think. I thought JK was really good at like getting through those little creases and making something happen. I don't think he's that, but I think he's the best I have on this roster and I think he is that now. So Rob's saying people's average 7 yards per carry and look decisive tonight. Kind of weird. People are saying he's trash tonight. Not disagreeing about Jackson. I thought Jackson looked more decisive. Right. And here's the. I guess the question is, with the other two in the exact same play, Jackson you've got to take care of, you have to be responsible for at least one tackler, right? So run through a guy, run past a guy, break a tackle, spin move, whatever you have to do. I counted four on Jackson's 64 yard touchdown run, right? That, that was. I think he took care of four guys on his own there. If that's James peoples or that C.J. donaldson. Is it 64? I don't think think so now. It might have been 20, but that's the whole point. You've got to turn threes into sixes and fives into tens and sevens into twenties and twenties into sixties when you can. So that's what I think he showed. And so to break. I think, you know, he kind of broke a tackle at the second level and then ran away from some guys and broke some tackles at the third level too. And I think they, I think Ohio State might need that to beat Washington and Illinois. So it's not a bonus. It's. It's a primary part of what they're doing here. Bo creates. This is Nathan. Bo creates plays for himself. The other two get what is blocked for them. That's the difference. I think that's. That's a more succinct way of saying what I've just been saying. And I agree with that. And that's the standard at Ohio State is get stuff for yourself. Not that the offensive line's not good, but. But get some stuff for yourself. So a dominating performance by Ohio State. 572 to 181 in overall yards 3rd down efficiency Ohio State 5 of 9 Ohio held to 3 of 15 it certainly was disappointing to see Parker Navarro miss most of the first half with his hand injury. The Ohio quarterback who can scoot a little bit, 6 of 13 passing for 94 yards, 5 carries for 3 yards total, had a long of 8 yards, did not really hurt Ohio State with his feet.
- [33:54]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to According to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to Indeed Data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listen, listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@indoubtedly.comBWN just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [35:12]
B
I thought the way they played Parker Navarro was a good sign because what Bill and I had talked about a lot coming into the week, and I think a lot of other people did too, was that this was a little bit of a test for Demon Williams Jr. Who's the Washington State, the Washington quarterback who can move a little bit as well if you guys want to use this. When Bill and I were doing the other show we had a headline because we interviewed Demon Williams Jr. At Big Ten media days in Vegas and we had a headline that was like Electric Washington Quarterback. And my daughter who I mentioned earlier thought thought that that was the player's name, that his name was Electric Washington. So sometimes in our house now instead of calling him demon Williams Jr. We call him Electric Washington. But spies. You know who's a good spy? Arvell Reese. I thought they did that. Well, I think they spied him with with two linebackers on one play, especially those third down plays, they are not over rushing and landis brought this up, Landis brought this up during the game that there was a play where he said he thought maybe in that same situation Jim Knowles would have called like an all out blitz and Matt Patricia rushed three and let sort of that three man pass rush do some stuff. And then you just have. We talked a lot about Caleb Downs last year was sort of playing at his own level of the defense that triumvirate. And it's one of those things where it's like, oh, they don't have three linebackers on the field. Caleb Downs is a linebacker. When he needs to be a linebacker, he's a corner. When he needs to be a corner, he's a safety. One, he needs to be a safety. Washington is even ranked. Why, why are we worried about losing to them? Says Zoe. They should be ranked. Polls are terrible. People don't know what they're doing. They have a great offensive trio. Daman Williams is a good young quarterback. Denzel Boston, I think is, is maybe in contention among the best receivers in the Big Ten who don't play at Ohio State. And Jonah Coleman is a real bruiser at running back. Their offensive line is much better. They were totally torn down last year because everybody went to the NFL or transferred after their appearance, the national title game. Jed Fish is a good coach. He can dial it up. Like I just. And Washington, they were undefeated at home last year. So you know, like, don't take Washington for granted. I'm sure I would bet Ohio State is probably going to be about a 15 and a half point favored in that game. I would just say I don't, I don't think that's an easy trip. Now Ohio State, we've seen Ohio State, it's like, oh, this game, this team's gonna be good. And then Ohio State goes and takes care of somebody by 35 points. But if Ohio State does that, I will be super impressed. So in, in the idea of preparing for that. Caleb Downs, Arvell Reese and Sonny Styles as guys tracking down somebody like Damon Williams Jr. Or somebody like Jonah Coleman in the run game, especially on third down. Those third and seven plays where they have three down linemen and then the two linebackers floating and sometimes they're, they'll rush and, and Styles and Reese are, are as good as pass rushes as Ohio State has or they'll drop or they'll spy and the quarterback going into that play doesn't know what they're going to do. They. That look gives Ohio State a lot of options. The players are really good at Executing it because they're incredibly talented and incredibly smart and that is. It is going to be really difficult for running quarterbacks. It's the great equalizer still. It remains a great equalizer for. Against any good defense. And we're almost at the point and I don't want to get to this point where we're taking the Ohio State defense for as an assumption. Right. We even talk about the defense. It's like, oh, I say defense was awesome. It's like, yeah, no, I know they were. I thought they did a good job when Navarro was in the game. So he had like that one little called run for seven yards where he got outside a little bit. But you can just see those three guys at that level of defense get downhill. You can see them drop into coverage. You can see them pass rush. And it is, it is. Jet Fish is a good play caller, but he's gonna need to bring something. Right. And I, and I will be curious. It's, it's the other test of this. I'm super interested and we only have two weeks to talk about the SOHA State Washington game. By the way, let's make sure we get to it at 11pm Eastern Time after win over Ohio. I'll be super curious if like Ryan Walters defensively stays in his preference for man because playing two high safeties and saying we're not gonna let you get beat us over the top. We're gonna make you, make you march down the fields seems like the smart way to handle Ohio State. I wouldn't want to no matter how good my corners are. I don't want to get on islands against Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, but it's kind of not what Washington does. So I'll be very curious to see what they do. But this defense is really physical and really smart and I think it's in contention for best unit in the country. Curtis, the defense is so crazy good. Take out the one explosive in the last drive and it had to have been less than 50 yards. We will go back to total team stats. So Ohio ran. Ohio gained 181 yards on 55 plays. So they had 34 rushing attempts for 68 yards. They tried. They were 10 of 21 passing for 113 yards. So 2 yards per rush, 5.4 yards per pass. Ohio State has a team 31 carries, 225 yards, 7.3 yards per carry. It is crazy good and it is a defense first team and I don't think it's going anywhere and I think they will be able to handle their business basically against anybody as Notre Dame and Texas A m get to 34, 34 with nine minutes left. But they're going to face some better quarterbacks. And it's just funny like this is the reevaluation and it's why, why poll voters and all of us have to be willing to reevaluate things. Because I mean, I don't really, I don't really mean this, but it's like, I don't know, beating Arch Manning, is that such a big deal? I mean it's like Arch Manning is getting booed. Archie been good. Is beating Clemson for LSU such a big deal? We have to be, we have to be open minded about this stuff. But I do think, and I, I do agree with Chris Sims on this, the idea of Ohio State having a convincing win but also having things to work on is what you want to do going into a bye week. And I think Ohio State will be in the right frame of mind and they're going to make sure, I mean there's been enough of this stuff with the, the west coast with, with the trips when you're the three time zone trips for anybody in the Big Ten, whether it's the west coast teams coming east or any of the east coast teams going west. I think there was enough of that stuff last year and I certainly don't think it contributed like why Ohio State lost to Oregon last year. It's like, oh, body clocks and traveling across the country. But I still wonder, especially with a lot of new guys, not young, but new, inexperienced. We don't have that game time yet for Washington. It's just gonna be a new situation. It's gonna be the first road game. Right. And that, that crowd gets pretty wild out there, I think. So my advice is don't take Washington for granted. Who said Kyle says Dante Moore is the only threatening quarterback in the Big Ten. I have done this for 20 years and been unimpressed by Big Ten quarterbacks across the board. I am just telling you, having seen it, having covered my share of Michigan State and Purdue guys and like watch out for this guy and, and then it like then doesn't seem to come true against Ohio State. I'm just telling you, in my opinion, Demon Williams Jr. I think can make plays. Drake Lindsay and this game I think is just starting. Minnesota and Cal tonight. Minnesota's like a two and a half point favorite on the road at Cal. I talked about Drake Lindsay all off season. I'm just telling you, like, I think Drake Lindsay brings some stuff to the table. Luke Altmeyer saved saved Illinois on the road at Duke last week. Like Luke Altmeyer brings some stuff to the table. Dante Moore is a real dude. Drewler has not been great. Bryce Underwood has great potential. The level of quarterback play in the Big Ten is better and so I understand living in that world in the past of like miss me with these overrated Big Ten quarterbacks who can't do anything against Ohio State. I don't think that's where we are. I just, I just. I think the Big Ten is a little better than that.
- [44:01]
A
You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored job jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed According to Indeed Data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@indoubtedly.comBWN just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.
- [45:19]
B
Here he is, your friend and mine, Jalen Landis. Landis, thanks for joining us here in the Bill and Dug. You know, why.
- [45:26]
C
Was everyone being called Jalen during the Peacock? I wasn't listening to Peacock. I was just watching it. So I didn't hear what they said. But I saw our live chat and there were a lot of Jalens in there.
- [45:34]
B
I think both Julian Saying and Jeremiah Smith were referred to as Jalen at one point. So that was. We were just having a little fun with the Fine pokes. Fine folks over at the as I like to call it. So congratulations to them on this game being over. Bill Landis We've had a long conversation. Too long, many would say. What did Ryan Day have that we there's two specific things that I think people are curious about Ryan Day, what he may have addressed, what did he say about Bo Jackson and his performance and what this may or may not mean for the future of the running back room.
- [46:08]
C
Bo Jackson, this is paraphrased a bit, but he has some big play ability. He can catch the ball well out of the backfield. Then he talked about some of the other running backs and thought that, you know, know, he thought James Peoples played a little better. Said CJ Donaldson had some hard runs, which is kind of like the thing he says he doesn't really have something great to say about a guy. Bo has some home run ability, which is a weapon for us, and we'll figure out how to work that in moving forward. You can see the vision and you can see the explosiveness.
- [46:38]
B
So those are words. What were vibes? Because we were sort of talking about the idea, I think at times in the past with Ohio State and with many teams, sometimes there's a young guy and it's like, is the young guy going to get the chance? Are they going to lean on the old guy, the veteran guy, because he's next in line? Did it feel like Ryan Day is ready to play Bo Jackson big snaps in big games?
- [47:01]
C
I mean, he didn't anoint him, right? There was, there was certainly that possibility. And I don't, I don't think that happened. I think, I think they're slow playing it a little bit. Right. And maybe it almost doesn't matter what anyone said because they put them on the field for the third drive of the game.
- [47:18]
B
Right.
- [47:18]
C
So I think that alone should give us an indication on, on how they're thinking about Bo Jackson. And I actually wasn't so sure we'd see him early in this game. I, I thought, you know, there might have, they might have hoped they got up big and play him in the second half, kind of like they did last week against scrambling. And they didn't wait for that to happen. They threw him out there in, in the first half. So, you know, if you were looking for emphatic declarations that bo Jackson is RB1 moving forward, you certainly didn't get that in words, but you got in actions at least. I think a pretty strong indication that they view him as, as a core part of the offense. Now moving forward.
- [47:57]
B
You're a ball knower. How do you view him?
- [48:00]
C
I think he's our best running back. I think that's clear. I guess I understand on some level not wanting to put a, like everything on a freshman's plate if you necessarily don't have to. But with the way that things broke down in this game, Jackson ends up with nine carries, people seven carries, Donaldson nine carries. Like it felt like, it felt like for a lot of it, maybe Bo was cutting into Donaldson's touches. So they have two weeks to figure this out, I guess before they have to play again at Washington. But I, I think he's, I guess he's part of the offense, right? I don't, I don't know that I'm expecting him to be the guy on the field first when they play at Washington and maybe that's a situation, it's going to be loud. That's an aggressive defense. Do you trust him in pass protection kind of stuff? Right. But with the ball in his hands, I think they do for the most part. So I'm expecting him to be a guy who's going to get, I don't know, 8 to 12 touches now when Ohio State plays games.
- [49:04]
B
I thought I counted four tacklers that he took care of on the 64 yard run. Do you think if Peoples or Donaldson had had the ball in their hands on that run that it would have gone for 64?
- [49:17]
C
No, I don't think they have that. They don't have the long speed for it and I don't know if they, I mean it opened up pretty nicely for him there and like in the middle of the line, but neither one of those guys has shown the quick kind of cut that he used to get to the outside or even really shake a tackle the way that the bow did on that play. So no, I don't, I think it would have been a nice hit, maybe like 12, 15 yards, something like that first down. But it wouldn't have been 64, like almost touchdown. Like he was, he was running. I was like, is he gonna, is he gonna score? Because like he, he was just out racing that, that defender that was running with him. And then like they kind of got an angle on him and, and he ran out of area so he had to go out of bounds. But no, he's, he's the guy that has the, the ability to turn something that should be 10 yards into 50 yards. And that's what we were talking about coming out of week one, right? Do Donaldson and Peoples have that? I'm not sure they do. So, you know, they want to hit explosive plays running the football. Bo Jackson, I think has to be the guy to do it.
- [50:15]
B
The passing game, 200 yard receivers with Tate and Smith. What did Ryan Day indicate about if he was happy with that? And certainly again this Is one of those Bill, we kind of ran through before you got here. I think eight teams in the top in the preseason, top 15 have already lost by week three. And now a couple of them played each other and they had to. But also there's. And then there's even teams within there like Penn State who haven't lost. But people have real questions about. And there are. There have been many times when we've covered this team where you come out of a game and they have great receiver talent. And you said to yourself, man, why don't you take any shots? Oh, well, they, they wouldn't let us throw deep and they were playing deep coverage and didn't let anything get over their heads. And then we're always like, well, how come you don't dictate? Why do you let a defense take stuff away? They did it. So did. Was Ryan Day very happy about that? And if not, and also you're a ball knower. What did you think of the fact that they did hit two deep touchdowns to their two big guys?
- [51:09]
C
Yeah, he was happy about it. He said that Ohio ended up playing their safeties a little lower than Ohio State was anticipating. I did think there were some moments in the first half where Ohio State was trying to hit some shots and. And Ohio ended up actually kind of bailing out and playing some coverage. But it did seem like the offense had a pretty good beat on when they were going to get. Whether it was like man or like cover three that kind of turned into like match man or whatever, I'm not entirely sure. But one on ones for the most part with safety is not really helping. Over the top when they thought they were going to get those, they did a pretty good job of attacking them. And that was like a question I had about Julian saying too, like, what's the arm like when you're trying to push the ball down the field like that. And I guess like, you know, the one that Jeremiah, he had to wait for it a little bit, but they teach him to do that. Ryan Day and Julian Saying both said like, the main teaching point on those throws is like, put some air under it and allow Jeremiah Smith to run under it. And then the one that Carnell Tate was a little more on the money, but I thought they were both good throws. Obviously they ended in touchdown. So Ryan Day, like seemed fairly pleased with how they threw the ball. With the exception being how they threw the ball in the red zone. But between the twenties and on the deep shots, yeah, he seemed to like what he saw.
- [52:25]
B
We had at least one of those, I think first down, free Money outs for 12 yards to Jeremiah Smith that Justin Fields used to cash those checks. And it's just. I, I don't know, it just was easy, right? When it looks easy, it's just a reminder of. Because you watch other teams, it's like, man, it doesn't look that easy for them, but it was a reminder like that sand can make that throw, no doubt about it.
- [52:49]
C
Yeah, he. He made one. I think maybe it was the touchdown throw last week. The. Carnell Tate might have been one of those throws from like the far hash to the corner of the end zone. He's got that, like, I, yeah, he's definitely got that in his, in his bag. Honestly, I don't know. I don't know that there's a throw that he doesn't have, to be perfectly honest.
- [53:10]
B
So.
- [53:10]
C
Yeah, that was good. You know, we can talk about the red zone stuff, but that throw sort of like is, is. Is required to be an Ohio State quarterback just because you get it so often. Because, because every team Ohio State plays is terrified of its receivers that oftentimes you are going to get the free 8 to 12 yards on those plays. And, and like, that's a layup. You have to make your layups. And yeah, Julian can do that.
- [53:32]
B
Notre dame just had 4th and 1 at the 17 yard line of Texas A M and passed up the field goal to go for it and did Wildcat and got it. So they're trying to, they're trying to like work this clock down and then nice, give Texas A M no time, but also trying to score a touchdown. 34. 34 with three minutes left. Okay. I don't think we have to have the full entire red zone conversation tonight. And in the end. Oh, okay. There's. There's actually two things I'll say, the red zone conversation then, because Kyle's reminding me Lorenzo Styles Jr got beat on the touchdown, like got beat in coverage and then also missed the tackle and didn't seem great. And you seem to sort of indicate in the chat that you not were maybe on alert but were wondering about teams maybe attacking the slot in that way. Where do you stand with that?
- [54:26]
C
Well, he got hurt too, and there was no update on him after the game. Friday was asked as he was leaving the podium and said, I, I don't know. Yeah, I just like, Ohio State's not played a ton of man coverage this year. And you know, when they decided to put Lorenzo Styles in that spot, my biggest question was like, well, can he cover good receivers in the slot? And this was one instance of obviously it not going well for him, but it was kind of the first time he's sort of been challenged in that way, in my opinion, and it didn't go great. So, you know, they put him back out there and then he got hurt. So it's not like it was a. It was such an egregious thing that they were going to yank him from the game because apparently doing so means you're going to play a true freshman in Devin Sanchez, which is what they did. They responded by putting Jermaine Matthews at nickel and then putting Devin Sanchez outside. I just think Lorenzo Styles is much better playing in zone, playing off the ball, driving on the ball, tackling. Well, I know he didn't miss the tackle on that play, but he actually has tackled well for the most part in his career. I just don't, I don't think, man coverage has seemed to be his strong point over the last two years, last year as a dimebag and this year as the nickel. So I don't think they're going to go away from him assuming he's healthy enough to play in the Washington game. But I'm going to remain alert, on alert for it to see if teams try to isolate him and attack him in those ways because Ohio, for one play found success doing it.
- [55:52]
B
It's fine. It's fine. I'm sure it won't lead to the SEC grabbing a win that they don't deserve. But Tyler Buckner, the former quarterback who's now back at Notre Dame as the holder, dropped the snap on the extra point. And so Notre Dame is only up by 6 instead of 7. I'm sure it's fine. All right. Red zone. This is not certainly. And Texas A M just ran the kickoff back for a touchdown. It's fine. I'm sure they'll drop the snap, too. I'm sure they'll drop.
- [56:23]
C
This actually happen.
- [56:25]
B
That did just actually happen. Oh, there's a flag, though. Maybe it's a Northern ref. All right. I don't need to do play by play of the Texas A and M Notre Dame game on our Ohio State post game show. What's up with the red zone, man? What would you. Is it an ish. Is it an issue? They were eight of nine on touchdowns in the red zone in the first two games and over the course one.
- [56:45]
C
Of one against Texas. And sure, that was. That's what I wanted to ask Ryan Day. And it's sort of like someone Stephen means kind of asked it before me in like in a slightly different way. But Ryan Day often talks about things being masked and early in the season, especially when you're not playing good teams. And I wanted to ask him, like, you had one red zone attempt against Texas, it took you four plays to score. And then like whatever last week is like you're just not going to learn anything. It's not instructive.
- [57:13]
B
Flag is on Texas A M. Flag is on Texas A M. They're calling back the return.
- [57:18]
C
This game was going to be a little more instructive and then they got down there and they had a hard time scoring. Like it's not, it's not great. I'm not trying to say it is. Like I, I, I kind of thought and Ryan Day said the same thing, that like the Carnell Tate one was a catchable ball in the end zone. The one that Jeremiah Smith that didn't score probably should have been a little bit better of a throw. And like they kicked a field goal from the two yard line. Like, I don't, I don't like, they, they, they made it look worse by choosing to kick a field goal from the two, from the two yard line. Right. So I'm not saying they definitely would have scored there, but I would have liked to see Ohio State try. So, you know, there's, that'll be the focus, I think, you know, going on the Washington. That'll be a lot of what we talk about with Ryan Day on Tuesday. I did ask Ryan Day about them using Lincoln Keenholtz on that short yardage play and if they thought about going to him in the red zone at any point. He said yes and that they have ideas about how to use Lincoln there moving forward. And the thing they like most about it is that the whole offense is available because they think Lincoln's a good red zone thrower. So I suppose be on the lookout for that moving forward too. So I, I don't know if I'm like panicking necessarily. It wasn't great. And it's weird that like the people that make the line just, just knew Ohio State was going to futz around in the red zone and the game ends up being like, like right on the nose of what the spread was. I thought, I thought two of the trips, I think one was C.J. donaldson and one was Brandon and it's like open in the flat right away. I don't know what the progression were for Julian saying on those plays, but those guys were at least open and he didn't get the ball to them. So that was all the postgame press conference was about, really was like, gotta execute in the red zone. Gotta execute the red zone.
- [59:07]
B
Okay. And it's one of those things where sometimes it's like, okay, the nitpick of, no, nobody asking those questions and nobody in this YouTube chat right now are more upset about it than Ryan Day. Ryan Day is the most upset about it. So he's gonna be obsessed about this for the next two weeks about Ohio State scoring touchdowns in the red zone. We'll get into this a little more specifically on the Sunday sound off for our Substack subscribers. But typically, over the last decade, they're about 2/3 successful on scoring touchdowns in the red zone. And they're usually like 40th in the country in it. They're usually okay. And then three of those years, they're. They were great, including last year. And so. But we've. Have we not have. Have we not had millions of conversations about this? And that doesn't. Because the stats I was looking@oncfbstats.com only go back to 2016. This doesn't even go back to 2015 when they had to make J.T. barrett the red zone quarterback because they couldn't score in the red zone with Cardell Jones. And then that was the. The. The beginning of J.T. barrett taking over the whole job. This is often a thing, and I don't know enough specifically, is this a thing with a throwing team, if you're a throw first team? Because then the thing that would make me the most nervous about this, Landis, is this, like a back door to the toughness conversation, which is the worst conversation any person can have around Ohio State football. But also, they're so good at so many things. I think they can be a great team and be kind of average at this. And it'll be like, okay.
- [60:48]
C
Yeah, it's been weird. Like, I. I don't think it's a toughness thing. I think it's more. More about finding the right things that work for you. And I also don't think, like, I actually think Julian saying probably can run a little bit. I. I even thought on some of the plays where he had the scramble, like, he looked a little twitchy doing it. I'm not saying he's Justin Fields, but he's got some movement skill to him that maybe they might tap into moving forward now that you're getting into Big Ten play. So that's a potential answer there. They were good in the red zone in 2022, when they were a throwing team with CJ Stroud at quarterback and like CJ Stroud running had nothing to do with that.
- [61:22]
B
So second year starting quarterback. CJ yeah.
- [61:26]
C
Yeah, they were, they weren't good in, in 2021 and they weren't good in 2018. 2018 was when there was the Tate Martel, the brief appearance of the Tate Martell red zone package.
- [61:37]
B
Right.
- [61:38]
C
And then I don't know, is there something to quarterback height down on the red zone to see through some of the mess down there? Maybe, maybe that means they need to scheme up some more movement throws for Julian saying in the red zone. I'm not sure. Like again, I'm not, I'm not, I'm trying not to go like full scout panic because they weren't good for this one game against, against Ohio. Yeah, because I thought like there were opportunities that probably just should have been executed. Something like they were just sort of running into a wall and couldn't figure things out.
- [62:09]
B
So.
- [62:09]
C
But, but it's, you know, it's the number one thing I'm going to be watching for when they play Washington in two weeks is can they, can they finish drives? And that's what Ryan Day said too. And Ryan, they also mentioned the thing that you said about like this, this four game stretch they have coming up after the, the idol week. Washington, Minnesota, Illinois, Wisconsin. He said, like this is, this is going to be a tough stretch. Like they have to have their stuff together to get through the stretch unscathed. So you know, you don't, you don't like to sit through a game necessarily that looks like this one. It might not be the worst thing in the world that some of these warts show themselves in this game and not in Seattle in front of whatever 65, 000 people screaming their heads off.
- [62:48]
B
I also do think there's a lot of people suggesting this in the, in the live chat on YouTube that they were trying some stuff, they were experimenting a little bit. I'm not sure if it was a, if they were in the red zone to win the national championship, I'm not sure those are the plays they would have called. Right. And they have shown some looks with four tight ends and some things where they, I'm sure they have some stuff, I mean I can remember, I don't remember what year it was. It might have been 2018. But suggesting like should they take a knee on the 21 yard line and not get in the red zone and trying to figure out like, okay, let's talk about Non red zone touchdown efficiency like Ohio State, I'm sure in 2018 was probably the, had the highest percentage of drives that didn't get in the red zone, that didn't did lead the touchdowns of anybody in the country. But in the red zone they weren't good. So it's, but also you could argue that the reason they didn't make the 2019 national championship game is because they didn't convert touchdowns in the red zone in the first half against Clemson. So it's one of those things that I probably. Do you agree they might have been trying some stuff they wanted to see what worked?
- [63:49]
C
Yes, I, I do agree with that. I'm, I am eager to get on like the all 22 tomorrow morning and just go through every red zone drive to see what they were trying to accomplish and then we can talk about that on tomorrow's show. But yes, I think that's part of this is figuring out best personnel groups, best running backs. Even though what like the, the play where C.J. donaldson like got picked up and dropped in the hole. It's like, I don't know that that'll happen again, but it seemed like he got kind of caught off guard by, by that happening. So some funky stuff happened, you know, stepping out of bounds on what looked like a touchdown. You know, it wasn't all like schematics I guess, but I, but I do think there was some element of we have some things we'd like to work on in that area to see what we're best at. And now they gotta watch what they did and the lack of execution and figure out what those things are that need to hang their hat on moving forward. But I also think that could include introducing a little more of Lincoln Keen holds down there.
- [65:00]
B
I also think they wanted their field goal kicker to get some action before they hit this four game stretch and, and again if it was right.
- [65:09]
C
Is that right?
- [65:10]
B
So they kicked two field goals like on fourth and two from inside the five. I, I, I doubt that they actually do that in games when the, the, I think they wanted to make sure that like Jaden Fielding wasn't kicking his first field goals against Washington in that crazy environment. And just like getting on the field again mattered.
- [65:28]
C
So yeah, I think I get that on the first one. The first one was fourth and two from the 20 and it's almost like you guys are driving me crazy. I'm putting the kicker out there. You need to get your stuff together. 4th and 2 from the, was it or 4th and goal from the 4 and 4th and goal from the 2. Did not love that. Like, like, you finish the drive. I'd rather you, like, not score and make Ohio get out of its own end zone, then kick a field goal in that situation, no matter who you're playing.
- [66:03]
B
But I bet, I bet they do when it matters. Do you think they, like. I don't think they'll pick those field goals in a matchup game. And because of a lack of belief in their red zone offense. You know what? Let's, let's let the good people go. Is there anything you want to finish with here? Texas A, M's, like, up the doorstep. Texas A M's in the red zone with 54 seconds left, down six against Notre Dame.
- [66:27]
C
Anything. Did you talk about the defense at all?
- [66:31]
B
I just said they were good.
- [66:33]
C
Kaden Curry's playing really well. He was like, today.
- [66:38]
B
He's great inside on third down, man.
- [66:40]
C
Yeah, he really, he took that center and dumped him in the quarterback slap. It was a little, I was kind of bummed, actually, that Parker Navarro got hurt because I, again, I do think that would have been really good opportunity for Ohio State to, to figure some stuff out. And then he came back and played and I guess he ran, like, on his first play, and they kept him in check. Like, they kind of hemmed him in. He only ended up with three rushing yards, and aside from that one kind of busted play, didn't really do much. But Kaden Curry, man, he's, I thought he was playing really well in the first two games. Well, not necessarily, like, racking up as much as that. And then he was kind of all over the place in this game, so I just wanted to shout him out for having a good start to the season.
- [67:17]
B
Yeah, no, I, I, I agree. And that, that really enhances that look when you have that, that guy sliding inside from edge on third down looks really comfortable in there. And that's, I mean, that's like, that's like a Ty Leak Williams replacement. You know, it's like, oh, who's gonna replace Ty Williams? Kaden Curry? It's like, what it's like. Yeah. And those situations he's going to. It looks pretty good. So. All right. Texas A and M is going backwards. They're getting some penalties, so that's good for Notre Dame and we'll see how this thing ends. We'll be back on the Sunday Sound off on Substack on Sunday morning. Bill will be back on Monday breaking stuff down. We'll, we're going to continue to have a bunch of stuff on YouTube, in your podcast feeds, and on our substack page during the bye week. So we got a lot of stuff going on. We're super appreciative. We had a big number of people here late on a Saturday night in a game against a Mac opponent and that's awesome. So we can't wait to get into situations where we're talking about post games in Big Ten play for the Ohio State Buckeyes. So thanks to you guys for being here. For now, he's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lee Maurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [68:34]
A
Some things in life are just made for each other.
- [68:37]
B
Peanut butter and jelly, Macaroni and cheese.
- [68:41]
A
Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off.
- [68:50]
B
The Modelo recruiter is back in action. Action looking to reward full time fans.
- [68:56]
A
Who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time.
- [69:10]
B
For a well deserved ice cold reward.
- [69:14]
A
Because college football wouldn't be the same without you.
- [69:18]
B
So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy. The official beer Sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.