← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State beats Purdue 34-10 live postgame: Jeremiah Smith sets personal high with Carnell Tate out
01:02:39
The No. 1 Ohio State Buckeyes beat Purdue 34-10 as Jeremiah Smith set a career high with 10 catches. He led the Buckeyes with 137 receiving yards as Ohio State played without Carnell Tate, who sat out the game but should return next week.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show, a postgame show after Ohio State's 30 war 34 to 10 win over Purdue in West Lafayette on Saturday. And off the top, Bill, apologies to all the Ohio State -28 and a half and 29 and a half betters out there. Tough one, brother, right?
- [00:24]
B
Yeah.
- [00:24]
A
Yeah.
- [00:25]
B
Tough late touchdown there from. From Purdue. Kind of. Kind of felt like it was coming, though, with like the game, the way the game was just going. It felt like Purdue was going to try to attack one on there at the end. So that is. That is unfortunate. For those who had the under hit, though, I think.
- [00:39]
A
Right?
- [00:39]
B
The under. The under. Still surprised. So we have that.
- [00:41]
A
Not a bettings. Not a betting show. The Buckeyes.
- [00:44]
B
I think you might not be coming through your microphone, which I think you can change on the fly.
- [00:48]
A
Okay.
- [00:48]
B
For the fine. For the fine people listening at home.
- [00:51]
A
Yeah, no, I think. I think that you are right and that's probably something I should have figured out while you were running around and reporting and I was just sitting here in my office. How's that? There we go. Professional podcast. You quick hit. Thoughts? You were there. What'd you think of this Ohio State Purdue game?
- [01:12]
B
Yeah, Ryan Day used the word business, like, so I'd probably use the same. Is that one word or two words? I guess that's one word. I think I would say say the same thing, right. Like, you know, frustrating because it probably should have been 44 to 10 or what I'm gonna do math like 47 to 10 or something like that. Right. 48 to 10 because of those two drives where Julian Saying threw the pick and the other drive where he kind of missed Max Claire in the end zone. So not perfect. But again, never really in doubt. The defense kind of did the thing that it always does, which is like gives up a drive adjust, and then that's sort of it. So I think more or less kind of on par with what we've seen from Ohio State in these types of games all year. They're not out here pushing the envelope and they just sort of handle their business.
- [02:01]
A
I do think we'll. We'll start off the top and spend a decent amount of time focusing on some of the people that did not play for Ohio State on Saturday and how Ohio State adjusted to that. This was an interesting window. Obviously, Ohio State. Ohio State fans have been spoiled all year by having two number one receivers in, Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. This was a window into normal life where you have an exceptional number one receiver and Then you have a bunch of other good people, but it is a little bit different. Did you have any sort of like gut reactions to how the offense was different, how Purdue was playing Ohio State differently if they didn't have two receivers like that to be worrying about?
- [02:41]
B
Yeah, clearly the, the rushing rate went up. I think because of that. Ryan Day said they came into the game sort of wanting to continue to work on, on the run game but, but I think even then to end up with 43 carries, some of those sacks, that that's probably on, what was it, 76 plays, that's probably higher than it would have been otherwise because Carnell Tate's not here. And then also talking with Julian saying after the game, he did say that after, after the first probably two or three drives when it was apparent that Carnell Tate wasn't going to play today, Purdue started defending Jeremiah Smith differently. They started doubling him a lot and sort of daring all the other Ohio State receivers to kind of step up and make plays, which I, you know, a time or two that they did. So yeah, I hesitate to give Ohio State like too much credit for kind of just moving the ball at will without Carnell Tate because they were playing a pretty bad defense in Purdue, but they did basically move it all they wanted to without the guy who's probably the second best receiver in the country. I know they didn't finish drives the way they wanted to, but 75 play, 75 yard drive, 89 yard drive, 45 yard drive, 68, 58, 65. Like they moved it fine in this game without him. So that is, yeah, that's encouraging. Right. I think you do get, you give some credit for it.
- [04:04]
A
Yeah, I mean I don't, I, I just have seen a little bit of, of, of fans talking about like, I've seen the word sloppy once or twice and I just think like again we have to understand what the situations are here. Ohio State punted on its first drive and then went 75 yard touchdown drive, 89 yard touchdown drive, 30 yard touchdown drive, 45 yard field goal drive, 68 yard drive that ends with a pick in the end zone that is maybe Julian Sands worst play of the year. 58 yard field goal drive, 65 yard touchdown drive. And then the game ended. So they didn't punt after the first drive. They moved the ball at will up and down the field. They moved it slow in the run game, they moved it fast with the passing game in a 45 second two minute drill when they wanted to at the end of the half that I I thought given that the right tackle was out and the co. Number one receiver was out, like if Julian S. Doesn't throw that pick in the end zone, I think it's sort of people are mostly on what like another dominating offensive performance by Ohio State. And it's just a little bit like they have. They only have 34 on the board, but they did what they wanted to all game, which yes, is an overmatched opponent, but I think still matters when you're down like two of your 11 starters.
- [05:22]
B
I think it matters. Yeah. I don't know. They ended up with a lot of plays. Like their yards per play is down a little bit to 6.2, which is like fine, not great. But if you look at some of like the advanced numbers, like their, their leverage rate, which is basically just like how often are you in an advantageous position to continue moving the ball was 79, like it's really good. So sloppy in the sense that like I guess Julian Saying made some mistakes that we're just not accustomed to seeing him make, but I don't know. And like you know, the one right guard spot that remains an issue that we're going to talk about, but that's not anything new. I don't, I don't know that sloppy is the word I would, I would use for this. There, there has to be something between sloppy and. This is the cleanest game I've ever seen. And that's sort of where this one landed for me.
- [06:08]
A
Yeah. Julian Saying in The end was 27 of 33 for 303 yards, one touchdown, the interception in the end zone. Jeremiah Smith set a career high with 10 catches. The 137 yards was not a career high. But I even thought, I, I guess maybe it was before they had shifted their defense. But we saw the same thing which we know they're always going to do. Like the deep shot that Jeremiah Smith caught that got down to the one yard line. That was just another situation, right Bill of like it's one on one. When Julian sand sees that Jeremiah Smith has something one on one, he's going to take that shot. The coverage was still pretty decent, but the throw was where it needed to be. And Jeremiah Smith made a, a lovely catch. And that's just them doing their thing.
- [06:53]
B
Yeah, that's, that's not the first instance of your coverage is good. My throw is better, but that's exactly what it was. And then Jeremiah did a great job adjusting to it and, and making that catch. Like I, I will say, and Julian Saying said this Right. Like, this was not his most accurate game. Yes, I remember, like, Brandon Innis had to adjust for a ball. Nate Roberts had to adjust to a ball throw behind him in the flat and ended up losing his footing while doing so on a play that might have been a touchdown had he, had he stayed upright.
- [07:22]
A
Right.
- [07:23]
B
And Julian said, like, he was just like a little sloppy with like, his timing on things, I think, and that got him a little out of whack. But he's still, I don't know, he completed like 27 of 33 passes for 300 yards. So, like, that's an off day for Ohio State's quarterback right now. So that's, so that's not bad. I, I, yeah, I mean, I just thought the success rate was 53%. Like, there's, there's, there's nothing like terribly alarming or at least nothing like new that was terribly alarming. Aside from the, the offensive line stuff.
- [07:58]
A
37 drop backs, 39 rushes. Right. We, because a couple of those are saying carries. Like, we, we get that they had two sacks for the, for, for people who maybe did not watch the entire postgame news conference, you were in there with Ryan Day. Let's just talk about the fact that one of the best receivers in college football was interesting. The two best teams in the country, the two highest ranked teams in the country, both played without two all American level receivers today. Indiana, I think, had a, had a, a more difficult time at times overcoming the loss of Elijah Surratt, who is their number one guy. But then also they made catches when they had to. They had a guy step up who had a huge game. They, you know, make a ridiculous catch at the end of the game to find a way to beat Penn State. And then Ohio State's in this situation without Carnell Tate. Why didn't Carnell Tate play? What did Ryan Day say about it? We just want to make sure we cover the news here and then, like, were there any vibes you said you talked to Julian post game of like, hey, was it weird that like all of a sudden Carnell Tate's not playing?
- [08:57]
B
Yeah. So Ryan Day, about Carnell Tate said that they, they had like, he wasn't on the availability report, so he wasn't like a, I guess a true game time decision from that respect, but went through pregame warmups and did not specify where exactly he felt tightness, but he felt some muscle tightness somewhere. And they decided they were just going to kind of hold him out and hope that it didn't matter. I think you know, had this been a different game or had this game gone differently, I think there was a sense that they could have put him in the game. They just kind of chose not to. It seemed like maybe like whatever the tightness was didn't show up today. You know, I don't, I don't know that they were caught totally off guard by the idea that they weren't going to be able or they may not have him in this game. And it wasn't like Julian saying said, like I woke up this morning thinking I was going to be throwing above the Carnell Tate and then I found out at, you know, 11 o' clock I wasn't going to be. But it did. Like he's been such a security blanket for Julian that I'm sure it changed things. But like, then again, like that first drive, Julian ripped a Great throw on third and 11 to Mylan Graham that should have been caught. So it wasn't like he was lacking for confidence in these new receivers either. So I actually thought like, all things considered that the, the rapport with guys like Myelin Graham and Bryson Rogers and, and a couple of increased targets for Brandon and this looked pretty good for a quarterback who spent much of the season throwing predominantly his passes to Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate.
- [10:26]
A
Can you imagine the situation if Ohio State had been losing to Purdue in the middle of the third quarter and Carnell Tate went and got his helmet? Oh my God.
- [10:37]
B
Yeah, it would have been something else. I actually didn't realize this by the way. Jeremiah smith was targeted 10 times. The ball did not touch the ground. 10 targets, 10 catches.
- [10:45]
A
Yeah. I also thought possibly that we saw Ohio State launch the Heisman websites for Julian sand and Jeremiah Smith, that the two pronged Jeremiah Smith Heisman campaign was A, launch website, B, Carnell Tate has some tightness and can't play. And it's like, let's see what our number one receiver does when there's not another one receiver number number one receiver right beside him. Because it just, it does change the, the gravity of the offense. Right. Was there anything, I mean, you know, you're a ball. Nowhere is it like the tilt of the field. Just like you know, you said Julian say and was talking about, they started doubling Jeremiah Smith more. Could you sense it? Could you feel it watching from above?
- [11:30]
B
Yeah, I think especially on some of the key downs, you know, it was, it was clear that Julian had to go someplace else other other than Jeremiah. I think it, you know, it's interesting because there weren't depending on how you Define explosive pass plays. Like on the stat broadcast, they defined it as plays at 15 yards or more. I know a lot of programs say like 20 yards or more. Then if that's the case, then. Then Ohio State had a decent number of them, had 2 for 30, including a touchdown and 3 for 20. But I did. I did feel like you kind of felt the absence of Carnell Tate most in the attacking downfield. Right. Like he. Because he's just been such a key guy there, and it just feels like so much of a guarantee that when he's running down the field and Julian saying targets him, like, it's going to be caught. So that. That felt like a missing element. And I just don't know. Like, Jeremiah can certainly do that, but can Jeremiah do that when he's being double covered as much as he was? The answer is probably no. And then if it's like Myelin Graham and Bryson Rodgers aren't quite ready to do that yet, that's almost understandable. And the other thing, too was like, Quincy Porter didn't play. I think he would have played a lot today had he. Had he been able to. He was a gametime decision as well. He dressed, but then didn't get on the field. So I think you definitely sense the defense shift toward Jeremiah even more than it normally does. And I do think the lack of Carnell's downfield spread put a little bit of a cap on Ohio State cell phones. Okay.
- [12:55]
A
Do you think. Is it possible that Julian feeling like, like you said, he just was. He was a little more. He was not inaccurate.
- [13:04]
B
He was 20% less precision, like, regular, regularly accurate?
- [13:11]
A
Yeah, he was regularly accurate.
- [13:13]
B
Normal accurate.
- [13:15]
A
Can that be related at all to, like, one of my guys is out? Because I will say, like, one of the things. He is remarkably accurate. But. But also Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate make you accurate. That they. Even if it's a little bit, you know, something that is a little bit off, they have a way of just making it be fine. I did you. What was your reaction to that first third down over the middle to Mylan Graham that felt like maybe it was a scooch behind on the throw, but also there was a chance to make the play that it wasn't a perfect pass. It wasn't just like, I can't believe we dropped that. But I don't know. Did you watch it and think to yourself, I think Carnell Tate would have caught that?
- [13:51]
B
Yeah, I definitely thought Carnell Tate would have caught it. It was behind my, like, Graham had to, like, kind of turn around and catch it behind him. I still think he should have caught it again. And like listen, Brian Hartline, I'll tell you the same thing, right. We know, we know the high standard that he holds. Everyone in that receiver room too, regardless of, of if they've achieved superstar status nationally or, or not yet. So yeah, that plays. That ball's got to be caught. That's, that's like, that's how you make your mark in Ohio State's receiver room. It's not, it's not, I mean that the splashy plays, the touchdowns are great. It's like are you dependable? Like when the Money's down on third down and that's third and 11 and it should have been caught.
- [14:26]
A
So.
- [14:27]
B
But I think you can, you can parse that and say like me. Well, when you're working with an inexperienced receiver, your, your quarterback who's now starting is what, ninth game or 10th game has to be more accurate in that situation too. And it was a little strange to see. Again, inaccurate is probably the wrong word. Just like not deadly precise. Yeah. With, with saying in this game just because it's been, it was such an outlier compared to the rest of the games this season. But you know, he threw some nice third down strikes too at a great completion to, to Bryson Rogers on the third down dig that Julian mentioned specifically in the post game because he said like they went to man coverage, they double Jeremiah just. I couldn't get the ball to him so I had to work the backside and throw it over the middle to Bryson Rodgers and he caught the ball and they converted and kept moving on down the field. So it wasn't like it was totally out of sync the whole time. But I don't know, maybe, I guess Julian was not asked this specifically, but I guess maybe it would have been a good follow up. Like is the fact that Carnell is not there, does that sort of exacerbate anything with the timing of plays? Like do you, do you rush any more? Because you just know 17's not out there and he's been such a security blanket and maybe that leads to some of the, the throws that were a little off target. I don't know. But he wasn't, it wasn't asked that specifically. So I don't want to speak for him.
- [15:44]
A
I would ask, I would remind you that we probably do have some children watching. There's nothing that like an 8 year old likes more on a early Saturday evening to just sit down and pop up the live show YouTube up on the TV screen and take in what Bill and Doug had to say after a game. So please edit yourself. But you did put this in the chat during the game that if people want to join us over on Substack during the game, it is a lively festivity over there, is it not? Bill Landis, Bill and Doug. OSU.substack.com When Julian saying, Rip that 40 yard touchdown throw to Jeremiah Smith. Not, not like the deep shot, but the one down the middle. Right. How did you describe that? How did you describe that throw?
- [16:28]
B
I believe I typed, what an effing throw is what I said. Yeah.
- [16:33]
A
Did you tell Julian saying that after the game or did he have anything in particular to say about that throw?
- [16:39]
B
I did not say that to him. No, not that I heard. I, I got to him probably two or three questions into his little session. So he might have addressed it before then. He was, he was really focused a lot on like the stuff that they didn't do well, which I think is a sort of like a window into his process. He wasn't like, man, that throw was great. Who cares about anything else that happened? Like, he was, he was pretty, he was pretty crit. He was pretty critical of himself with this performance, which is just like really funny to think about when he throws six incomplete passes, a couple of which were throwaways and throws for 300 yards.
- [17:12]
A
Yeah. So reminder, you mentioned Jeremiah Smith, 10 targets, 10 catches. Max Claire, seven targets. And he, he does, he's just sort of like this. If there's something that's not there, he is quite that underneath option for them. He had five catches on the seven targets. Four targets for Brandon Ennis for three catches. Bryson Rogers, three target, two catches. James People's two checkdowns, one check down to Bo Jackson. Mylan Graham, two targets, one catch. Nate Roberts, two catches on two short targets and one to Jelani Thurman. Jake Butt mentioned it during the game, but I don't think they really showed a replay of it. He said Julian saying on one play was trying to take a deep deep shot to Max Claire and Max Claire fell down. What did you have eyeballs on that or a description of that? Because that was one of those. I was like, oh, man, I wish I could see more of that.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah, I think it was, it must have been. It might have been. On the opening drive of the third quarter, they ran a little play action like half boot and they were gonna run Claire back across deep, like saying, got like a half roll and planted and turned back to his right to Throw deep down the field. And actually first the safety covering Max Player slip. So he was gonna be like wide, wide open. But then Max Claire also slipped and he fell down. And then I think Julian took a check down to the running back. And they still got 10 yards on the play. But yes, there was a designed sort of play action deep shot there that unfortunately didn't hit because Max Claire lost his footing, which seemed to happen a couple times on this grass field today. I think both on offense and defense, guys did not have the best footing. I don't know if the game's any different if that's not the case, but I definitely noticed guys slipping a couple of times.
- [18:57]
A
Everybody loves grass until people start falling down. Yeah, it was like, oh, there's nothing like the lush grass field you can smell. It's like, guys fall. If it rains, it becomes a mud bog. We have advanced as a species to make fake grass that does not disintegrate if there's a drop of dew on it or turn into a mud pit if it rains for 15 minutes. So God forbid that we make fields out of the. What's the greatest innovation in modern. In history? Is it not fake grass?
- [19:32]
B
It's not. Yeah, it's not bad. Now, there's different versions of it. Some of it are, but some of it is bad. But you get to get the nice smells when you have the grass field and walk the. Walk down the tunnel and go to interviews. And it just smelled like football, man. It's like, I get it. And it looks nice.
- [19:45]
A
Takes. Take yourself. So was this a window and. And a Julian saying? Jeremiah Smith, Max Claire, Mylan, Graham Bryson Rogers, Brandon enn. Passing attack is an excellent passing attack. But was this actually. I think it's one of the most interesting things you can do, and I think it is often the best way to evaluate a player is to remove him. And sometimes you don't get to do it until a guy graduates or moves onto the NFL. It's like, oh, man, now I realize how guy. How good that guy was. This was a very good passing attack today. It was. But. But was the absence of Carnell Tate, did it reinforce anything that what Carnell Tate does is elevate a very good passing attack to magical, to unstoppable, to as good as you have ever seen. And that it is not at all coincidental that Julian saying was like, he maybe wasn't quite as razor sharp. It's like, well, wonder why, right? That Jeremiah Smith. They did a great job. This is what you would want if we were sitting here, it's like, oh, well, Carnell Tate didn't play and Jeremiah Smith got doubled. He had four targets. We'd be screaming. 10 targets, 10 catches for 130 yards is a great adaptation by Ohio State, but I thought we got a real sense of what Carnell Tate means to this team by him not playing today.
- [21:10]
B
No, I agree. I, I also agree with you saying like, this is a good day throwing the ball. It was an efficient day throwing the ball. It just maybe wasn't as explosive as we've seen, you know, the last couple games or what's. There weren't those 50 yard bombs or those 45 yard touchdowns in it. You know, Carnell gives you that. Carnell, I think, like increasingly has developed his sort of own gravitational pull in the same way that Jeremiah Smith has had basically since the moment he showed up. So, so that that was missing. And I, I do think you, you felt that, but I would also say you felt like after a couple of series like Purdue realizing that they still had the respect. Bryson Rogers and Mylan Graham and Brandon Ennis too. Right. And even some of the things, obviously fans know this, but like I end up saying this a lot, like just watching games like it shouldn't look as easy as they make it look sometimes throwing the ball. And that still happened a couple times in this game. Even with the absence of Cornell Tate, like they had that third down that I mentioned earlier about to Bryson Rodgers, like just sort of came off of Jeremiah Smith and went bang the other side. And like Bryson Rodgers runs a great route, he's wide open and you convert third down rather easily. They were second and 20 and like got it all back on one throw on like a deep curl to Jeremiah Smith. It's just like, I just don't think there are a lot of teams who are living this way and the fact that they were able to still do it some without Carnell Tate is awesome. But I, I think you use the word sort of like unstoppable. And, and definitely when Carnell has played, there have been times where the passing attack has felt unstoppable. I, I think it was something short of that today, even if it was very good.
- [22:48]
A
So the last thing, I'm just like a little fascinated by this. Were you, were you listening to the Big Ten network broadcast, like while you were watching the game at all? Were you logged in on that?
- [22:56]
B
I wasn't.
- [22:56]
A
Yeah. No. Quite an odd thing. Like there they got well into the game, maybe through the first quarter, and then they were they were like, oh, Carnell Tate wasn't out there on that third down. It was like, yeah, he hasn't been out there the whole game.
- [23:09]
B
I did, I did catch wind of that. Like, I saw someone on Twitter and I think someone in our substack chat says, I don't think the BTM people have realized that Carnell hasn't played yet. Meanwhile, we're in the press box like, like first play, like Cardinals on all the field.
- [23:21]
A
Okay, that's what I was wondering about. I'd be like one of those like, man, that's a, that's a great third down throw by. Wait, is that Lincoln Keenholtz? Actually Lincoln Keenholz was in on that third down play. And it's like, yeah, Lincoln Keenholz has been playing the whole game. How about somebody notice it? I mean, I'm sure there are fine people over there at the Big Ten network. No offense. Colossal failure. Colossal failure across the board that they didn't. It was not like the number one storyline because I actually thought where it's like a weird. And I want to talk about some of the rotation stuff. They just were doing a little bit of a rotation thing and I was like, oh, it's interesting. We, you and I had talked about this before the game. Are they gonna like rest some guys? Are they gonna move some guys around? Like, maybe they're like, they didn't play Carnell Tate the first series, maybe the second series, they won't play Jeremiah Smith. Maybe they're just gonna like do this. And then at some point it's like, no, it's not that. And why aren't they talking about it? There's a producer, there's a, there's an analyst, there's a play by play guy, there are spotters. He's Cardell Tate. He's not in the game, but in the press box there. Like, what was the vibe when it's like, oh, by the way, Carnell Tate's an all American and he's not playing.
- [24:27]
B
A lot of like, who's got binoculars? Who can see the sideline? What's Cornell doing? Does it look like he's going to play? Does he have his helmet? Does he not? It was pretty apparent to us after like the second drive he wasn't going to play because I don't think he ever put his helmet on. So like we were, we were on it pretty quickly, I think. And listen, like, like, if he's not on the field on the first drive, he's not going to play. I think, I think we all know the team well enough to know that's the case. And we also know how Ohio State handles player availability sometimes that we weren't caught off guard by the fact that he didn't play despite not being on the availability report. So we were surprised initially to not see him out there. But I think we all came around to the idea pretty fast, like, okay, he's just not playing today.
- [25:08]
A
Okay. So just to tell the folks here, you know, if you're watching us here on YouTube, if you're listening back on a podcast feed, we also do a Sunday morning show for our Substack subscribers where we take their comments, we take their questions, and we do like to. We don't want to have the same show on Sunday morning that we do on Saturday. So we try. We kind of have something that we think about that we might want to focus on on Sunday, and we think we're going to focus on the running backs in particular, the way Bo Jackson ran on Saturday, the way Isaiah west ran, the continued evolution of the CJ Donaldson role, the fact that they still are using James Peoples. I think we can really dive into that, Bill. We also, of course, will let the questions and comments from our Substack subscribers drive that. But if you're looking for that, we're not going to do that right now. But what we are going to do is talk about the offensive line. Is that okay with you?
- [25:55]
B
You know, it's okay with me.
- [25:57]
A
Yeah. And by the way, like, subscribe, Tell a friend. If you're watching this and you're not subscribed, make sure you subscribe to the Bill and Doug Show. I thought Ian Moore played pretty well. He started at right tackle in place of Philip Daniels, and Ryan Day said the same thing in the postgame news conference, which I was watching from afar, that I thought to myself, which is, well, I guess I'm not exactly sure how well he played, but you didn't notice him. And if you don't notice an offensive lineman, that's a good thing. I. I don't know. I was trying to make myself watch it at times. I thought there were moments where it's like, oh, y. Yeah, no, he's doing his job in the run game there. But basically the main thing was I don't know if there were any whiffs. I don't know if there were any times where somebody penetrated on a run play, whether Julian Sam was running for his life. And Ian Moore is looking around, throwing his hands in the air. He did have a little flinch for a Five yard penalty, I think on one play. But from your viewpoint, Philip Daniels was out. Ian Moore started. He is an Indiana native. He's a second year player. Right. This is sort of what we talk about by the end of your second year. Maybe you weren't ready at the beginning of your second year, but I just don't think anybody should be surprised if an offensive lineman that is projected to start at some point in his career, if he is called upon in the second half of his second season on campus, I think it is very, very possible that he is ready. And I thought that's what today was for Ian Moore.
- [27:23]
B
Yeah, I think the same thing. I was trying to do it like you make myself watch him a little more intently on certain snaps. I really didn't feel like I saw much. I guess he could be helped by the fact that when breakdowns occurred, they tend to occur at the right guard spots. Maybe they just overshadowed anything that could have possibly gone wrong or right tackle. I don't want to be dismissive of that possibility, but no, I, I thought by and large he played pretty well. You mentioned what Ryan Day said. You know, we talked with Ian after the game. He seemed pretty happy with, with the way that he played. He's like a pretty mature dude. It's, it's interesting talking and maybe it's just like talking to some of the Ohio State offensive linemen. It's mostly like an Austin Serval conversation. He's just like a very quiet, kind of not out of his shell sort of dude. And like Ian or is not like that Ian Moore, like, it's like a pretty, like pretty good personality. Very confident in himself. Did not like he walked over and Jerry Emek said, all right, we have Emore here and like 12 of us walked over to him and he's like, well, there's a lot of people I want to talk to me. But then he was fine and like answered questions well and seemed to have a pretty firm grasp on how he did today. But also like, didn't want to make too much of it. I asked him sort of like, hey, you know, when guys get put out there and play well, they usually get more opportunities to keep playing. It's like, yeah, I'm not worried about that. I just wanted to make sure I did the right things for the team today and if they want to put me in rotationally, they will. If they don't, then I'm ready for whenever the next time they need me. So I think he's got a pretty mature approach about this Just like a lot of the players on this team do. But yeah, I thought, I thought there was a real chance that that would be a problem spot because Phil Daniels was on the availability report and it was very evident from the like as soon as the highest they got on the field for its initial warm ups that he wasn't going to play today. So Purdue had like enough time I think to want to try to stress test the right side of Ohio State's offensive line if it wanted to. And I guess it didn't really happen. But even on the times that they tried, I really did think Ian Moore kind of held his own.
- [29:32]
A
When Ohio State in the off season went and got Ethan Onyanwa in the transfer Portal, that's a 30 game starter at Rice, they thought they were bringing him in to be a starting tackle. Philip Daniels is an Ohio kid. He started four games at Minnesota last year. It's not quite the same absolute slam dunk. We, you know, that was, that was a somewhat of a now but also later play. It's like, hey, we shouldn't have let this guy get out of Ohio to begin with. But also it made sense to me. I mean if there was a time that thought maybe Austin Sarah but will be the right tackle or whatever, but that if, if there wasn't quite a plan to say, well, you know what, I just think Ethan Moore is going to be the starting right tackle in Year 2 at Ohio State. That Ohio State to not have that as a first plan, that wasn't Plan A for the 2025 season. But now with like, with what where Philip Daniels is in his career and where Ian Moore is in his career and all the things that I just said already, I don't think it's makes any less sense for Ian Moore to be the starting right tackle than it makes for Philip Daniels to be the starting right tackle. And Philip Daniels, the right tackle spot has not been a consistent problem nearly to the extent that the right guard position has been. But I think it's reasonable to be curious if Ian Moore is the starting right tackle for Ohio State three weeks from now.
- [30:52]
B
Yeah, I think that could be possible. I want to like anytime we talk about offensive line, I do want, I do want to like give it a closer look before I go too far down. Because you can just sort of say like, well I didn't notice something. I go back and watch like actually I noticed 15 snaps that weren't great. So I want to be aware of that and leave some room for that. But like first blush, yeah, I think we could be heading down that road at the very least some rotation perhaps. It doesn't sound like again, like Phil, Phil Daniels is a long term thing. I noticed he was moving kind of gingerly through the initial warmups to the point where like I thought he wasn't even going to dress. And then he did dress, but he had a sleeve over one of his knees, underneath his knee, his normal knee braces. So I don't know if that's where he got dinged up or not. And it sounds like also was a late in the week kind of thing because Ian Morris said he didn't think there was a possibility he could start until Thursday. So we'll have to first see, I guess when Phil Daniels can get back. But even when that happens, I, I do think this was a good enough debut for more that they might try to rotate him in at the very least the next couple of weeks against teams in Ohio State. It's going to be four touchdown favorites against and then kind of see where they are once they get to the Michigan game. Which like I, I realize may not be the best thing to hear. But Ryan Day, like I, I asked Ryan Day specifically about right guard and he said like we're, we're still trying to make sure we got the right guys right.
- [32:22]
A
We're gonna do right. Good. We're gonna do right a lot.
- [32:24]
B
Yeah. But I don't, I don't think I asked specifically about right guard and his answer was a little more general. I do think it is primarily a right guard conversation, but we'll see if this like cracks door open at all for any right tackle movement too.
- [32:40]
A
At the very least, I think Ohio State should feel at least off this one game good about who their third tackle is that like if, if called, you know, when called upon, Ian Moore was ready and then I, we're going to get the Tiger Shabbol in the right guard spot next. But just even the idea that they did play Ethan Onianwa a little bit at right tackle, then they were in multiple positions but especially on the offensive line moving guys in and out all game. Like what did you, did you think that was just taking them taking advantage of the fact that it's an overmatched opponent and let's use the opportunity. Or, or. You said they played like eight different offensive linemen on Saturday.
- [33:16]
B
Yeah.
- [33:16]
A
What'd you think of that plan?
- [33:18]
B
I think it was clear that they weren't too worried about what Purdue was going to present them because they even they, they gave Van Sickle who Had been playing left guard. They moved him the right guard and rotated him in there for a series or two. He also struggled a little bit, but I think. And they use Justin Terry as a like jumbo blocker in the red zone, as an extra lineman. We haven't, we haven't seen that yet prior to today. So I think they wanted to get some guys who haven't played a ton, some like quote unquote high leverage reps just to get that kind of bank for them and see how they handle it. But I, I was curious whether or not we'd see. I figured we'd see Ethan play. I just didn't know if we'd see him play guard or tackle when we were going through warm ups. He was playing guard, I think. But yeah, I felt like especially in the, the Lincoln Keenholtz touchdown run, Ethan Onion had some pretty good push on that play if I recall correctly. So when Ethan's played previously, it's been pretty apparent pretty quickly that he was going to struggle and I don't feel like that happened today on a handful of snaps. So I guess that's a good development.
- [34:25]
A
Yeah, well, you let us into the presidential package. Let's just do a little bit on the presidential package before we get to the right guard situation. They did put in Lincoln keenholz at the three yard line. I think it was third and goal from the three. They had C.J. donaldson in the game who wound up being a lead blocker on that play. And I thought like through a great block like that was like exactly what you want in that situation. But we've talked about a lot, we've seen it little. I think it remains a nice piece of the arsenal that if they get, especially if they get into a game against a really tough defense and it's tough sledding in short yardage. I'm not saying put Lincoln, Keaton, Holt in the game every single time, but I thought it was worthwhile for Ohio State to refresh it for themselves, remind the opposition. And then I thought there have been times when they put Lincoln Keenholt in. It's been like, no, that's not it. That was exactly what you wanted it to be.
- [35:22]
B
Yeah, I think we talked about the pregame a little bit. Like maybe maybe this game could present some opportunities for Ohio State to get some more of that on film for teams to have to worry about. But yeah, it's just a nice thing to kind of have in your back pocket too. So I actually was looking this up. Ohio State now is up to 36th nationally in red zone touchdown percentage. At least it was coming into this game. It'll be a little lower now because the couple of the interception and the one field goal drive they had late, but I thought it looked good. I thought, I thought Lincoln ran hard. I thought too. I wasn't quite sure what to expect because they came out, they came out. I figured, Lincoln Kennelton's the game. You're going to be in the shotgun and run like a read option or get under center and just try to push him into the end zone. And instead they got into the pistol and I thought, well, I wonder what this is going to be. And then like you said, they kind of turned it into a leader there with C.J. donaldson blocking. And I thought it looked good up front, it looked good in the backfield. Lincoln, Lincoln looked pretty powerful. So I sort of think it's Ohio State's hope that they don't have to ever rely on it. And thus far their red zone efficiency I think has been good enough that they don't feel like they need to. But it's a nice thing to have in your back pocket and a nice thing to be able to pull out and show teams. It's just something to kind of put in the back of their mind. Is there prepping for you down the road?
- [36:38]
A
Yeah. Worthwhile, like not just like. I didn't think it was like dorking around. I thought it was like.
- [36:43]
B
Nope.
- [36:43]
A
Worthwhile for all involved. I could see them running it on seconding goal from the two against Michigan. I could see them running it if they go with a handoff to CJ Donaldson on first and goal in a playoff semi final and they don't get it. I could see them putting Lincoln Keenholts in on second down and trying that. Like, I think it, I think it's real. I think it's. I think it's not the go to, but I think it's real and I think it was worth them doing it. Right.
- [37:10]
B
This was, by the way, fitting. 2023 was when we here at Purdue when we, I think we first saw the Devin Brown red zone package.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah.
- [37:20]
B
And then. And then the next game sprained his ankle. Yeah.
- [37:23]
A
And that was the end of that. Let's talk about right guard. You asked Ryan Day about it after the game. First, let's start with Josh Padilla. As we had talked about during the week, as we talked about on our pregame show on our Substack page. It's another bonus if you join us on Substack we do a pre game show two hours before when the availability report comes out for Substack subscribers. Billandduggosu.substack.com Josh Padilla was out. Ryan Day had said, well, Luke Montgomery, Tiger Shabola, Josh Padilla all banged up last week. That's three guards. Two are fine, one is not. It turns out Josh Padilla is not. Let's deal with the Padilla injury part of it. You asked Ryan Day about it after the game. Thank God you were there. I wasn't sure it was going to get asked about. What was his answer about Josh Padilla.
- [38:12]
B
I promise you an offensive line question is not going to go on asked as long as I'm here. I asked if Padilla was long term. Ryan Day said, they don't think so. He did not travel. So it was like they brought him here and said like, run around and see how it feels kind of thing. They left them at home, but he said they think he can play next week, if not the week after that. I think it'll just depend on whether or not they feel like they want to keep him out as a precaution against ucla. But I think at worst they'll get him back out there for the Rutgers game so that he's not going into the Michigan game like Rusty or whatever.
- [38:47]
A
Okay. And then the second part of your question was about Tegra Shabola. And I found Ryan Day's answer to it very interesting. And also it was like one of those a little bit. It was like the, the meme of like the two hands clasped together. It was like, offensive line struggling. Offensive line struggling. I agree. What did you think of Ryan? What was your question? What'd you think of Ryan Day's answer?
- [39:15]
B
I. I wanted to make sure I, I worded it correctly to not like, sort of like, put him, put him in a position where he feels like he needs to, like, step up and defend his offensive line. So I asked, I said, like, we've talked with you a lot about right guard this year. And it seemed like some of the inconsistencies with Tegra kind of peaked back up again. And he said, I agree. I saw the same thing, which I think is Ryan Day's way of saying, like, yeah, it wasn't good. Yeah. Because I don't think he's gonna. Oftentimes you ask my players struggling, and I'll say like, I gotta go watch the tape or whatever. So for him to acknowledge it sort of raw after the fact, I think means he's, he's pretty unhappy. With what he saw there. And people watch the game. Right. I felt like almost every time Julian saying was pressured or sacked, it was because Tiger Shibola blew a block. That screenplay that they ran was just like inexcusable to not block a guy on that play. Because the thing is, it's not like he's, he's not new. He started every game since last year. And these issues just aren't really getting any better. So I don't know. This, this felt to me and I kind of, I think I wrote this like this performance from Tiger Shabola. I, I think was bad enough that had Josh Padilla been available, they would have just pulled Tiger and played Josh the whole game, the rest of the game. But they could, they didn't really have an option to do that. So the, whatever. The conversation remains ongoing, I guess. But this, Ryan Day has, when asked about this previously has kind of left the door open to like, we're going to rotate, we're going to see how it goes. This felt to me like a step in the direction of we kind of want to make a change. It just, we need the other guy healthy enough to do so and he's not healthy enough to do so at the moment.
- [40:59]
A
And you and I had talked during the week of we did a whole offensive line show here about are they, if Josh Padilla is out, are they definitely going to rotate somebody with Teg or like, do they just want to. They want to have another option there and play that other option or is this specifically about getting Josh Padilla ready and then to slide Gabe Van Sickle over to the right side and then put him in on maybe the third series Felt like. No, they, they want to make sure that somebody is getting other reps in there. And Gabe Fan Sickle is young, he's new right there. There was maybe a play like at least one play that stood out for a couple of the plays that he, that he did fine. But that again was like a little bit of a proof to me of like, okay, like, we're gonna put the third string guard in there because we don't want to live in a. We're. We're not comfortable or we don't think it's the best thing for the team now or going forward to just play Tegucibola every single snap. Yeah.
- [41:55]
B
I wonder if part of that. Because I, I want to ask, I think Austin Ward asked this like a week or two ago and noted that Tegra seems to play better when his job is threatened. And were they playing Gay Van Sickle to like, try to keep that fire lip under Tegra maybe. But then also it didn't work. And also I, I don't really think that's any way to live with the player. It's like, yeah, it kind of is average until he thinks he's gonna lose his job and he steps it up. It's like, well, can he step it up all the time? Yeah, because if he can't, then that seems like a bit of an issue. So I'm not trying to discredit Gabe and Sickle. They like him, as I mentioned, during the week. And even Ryan Day after the game is like, pretty complimentary of what they've seen from Gay Vincent. Well, not, not in this game specifically. Just sort of generally for why they wanted to put him in the game. But yeah, this rotation this week did not go quite as planned or as well as it's gone other weeks.
- [42:51]
A
Yeah, it felt like last week because last week we actually missed that Josh Padilla was hurt. We were sort of thinking to ourselves, oh, well, Josh Padilla played a couple series, now he's not. I gu. Tegra seized it. And it did feel like, I thought last week felt a, like a little bit of a step forward with Tegra Shabola and then this week felt like another step back.
- [43:16]
B
Yeah, I agree. I thought it was maybe like the most consistent game we saw from Tegra last week. And, and this was definitely a step back, maybe a few steps back. But like this, this I'll be interested to see what the numbers say, like, once they come in from whatever. Pff. But like Ryan Day, the expectation for every starter is that they grade out a champion according to Ohio State's in house metrics. And like, clearly that's not going to happen. And I think clearly hasn't happened enough. And they're frustrated by it. And I wonder, like, and I, like, I think fans are likewise frustrated. It's like, yeah, no kidding. You're frustrated. Like, we've been seeing this all year. Part of me feels like it might be like, too late to make it. Like it's November and now you're. Now you're like seriously considering a change, possibly for the first time when the body of work has largely been this all year. So I get like any, any critique or frustration with that from the fan perspective. But this was. You want to see it getting better and it's not really getting better. And like, yes, last week felt like a step in the right direction, but then to just like revert back to this against a much Worse defense, obviously, is not an encouraging sign.
- [44:27]
A
So we will operate under the assumption that Josh Padilla will either play next week against UCLA in some capacity or he will, if not next week, play the following week against Rutgers in some capacity. If you were betting right now, who's Ohio State starting right guard in the Michigan game.
- [44:44]
B
I would bet on Josh Padilla right now.
- [44:46]
A
Okay. It's. It's not the exact same thing, but when we were talking, when we did the show this week about offensive line injuries, we were talking about that Michigan game, where was it? Matt Jones was hurt and they had to start Enoch vamaki like in 2023. And it went poorly right from the jump 22. And then they put in Josh Fryer right away. And then Josh Fryer played like basically the entire rest of the game. I would maybe wonder, because it feels like, I mean, this is, this, this Padilla injury is a little bit of a monkey wrench here. I would wonder if they would get to the Michigan game. It's clear that both guys are going to play. They start Tegra because it would be like his, whatever it is, 28th consecutive start.
- [45:37]
B
Yes.
- [45:38]
A
And probably plan that Padilla is going to play the second series and then if Tegra doesn't have a good first series, like Josh Padilla could play the rest of the game. But I wonder with the injury if they would get to all the way, because I do. If it's his first start. If you don't. So he's not going to start next week. So then if he's able to play next week, then you could start him again. Rutgers, I guess. But would you want Josh Padilla to make his first start ever in the Michigan game or would you still have a B. Teguishibola? It's been a rotation. Everybody's accustomed to that. But if it looks bad, the, the lease is short and that's over, the rotation's done. Tego Shabola played the first six snaps and Josh Padilla played the last 62.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah, that's a good distinction, I think. I guess I would say this. If Josh Padilla can play next week, I think he'll start the Michigan game. If he can't, okay, then I think it's more. Then I think it's more what you just laid out.
- [46:35]
A
And I do think this is, this is about. Do you. In the way this has been handled, do you believe this is Ohio State doing what is best for the team? They're trying to figure this out. They, you know, they, they. Josh Pitty is young Tiger Shabola is a. Is an experienced guy. They're just being. They're maybe slow playing it a little bit, but it's all in service of like, what is best for the team. Or do they. Do you think they've been maybe leaning a little bit too hard on. We're sticking by the veteran guy to try to do what's right by him.
- [47:08]
B
I don't know. Maybe we're starting to creep into that territory. It's hard to say because I really do think. I think we would have just seen a lot of Josh Padilla today had he been healthy, and we would have seen more of them against Penn State had he been healthy. So. So it's hard. I want to take that into account, I guess, when. When like going down the road of maybe critiquing them for riding with the experience guy too much, because I. I do think the D is probably the only other answer.
- [47:32]
A
Right.
- [47:32]
B
It's not like I'm not sitting here saying that you start Gabe Van Sickle. Right. I guess you could. You could try Ethan on the onlooker, but we've seen. We've seen enough of that to know that's not very good. I think it. With Tegra, it's more. And this is based on. What about like the way that like Chip Kelly talked about him last year. He just has a lot of raw sort of physical tools that just have not been totally harnessed. And I'm using the word a lot displayed on a consistent basis. But. But it's. It's the kind of stuff for a player who's that big and that athletic, it's hard to walk away from entirely. I think I do get that. But at a certain point you have to put the team first and the. In the success of the offense first. And I think the staff is kind of at that point now with it, so I think it's just a matter of whether or not Padi is available. And if he is, I have to say taker will go away entirely because I do think he'll still play some, but I don't think they'll let the inconsistent play persist if Josh Padilla, like, gets back and shows himself ready or incapable of playing at a slightly better level.
- [48:43]
A
Okay. Anything else about the right guard situation that. That you would like to add?
- [48:50]
B
No, I think we covered it. I. I do. We'll see. I'm interested to see if Ryan Day might get asked about Ethan Onion in the week and how he responds to that, because this on a pretty small sample size. It Seemed like that this was the best they've gotten out of him so far. So does that. Does that. Whatever. Put like a new. New combatant into. Into this conversation as Ohio is trying to figure out the best path forward at right guard.
- [49:15]
A
I mean, I'll tell you, I don't. Can Ian Moore play right guard?
- [49:19]
B
Sure, yeah, I think he could. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know that he has his. Prior to today, he played like 63 career snaps, and they were all a tackle. But, yeah, I think he probably could kick inside if you wanted him to. He's a little leaner. He's like. He's like a taller, skinnier tackle. But, yeah, probably.
- [49:38]
A
I. I don't want to go overboard on this, but it just felt. I mean, again, Ian Moore was thrown in and he seemed like he did a good job. And if they're open to whatever, right? If it. If you're problem solving and you're looking for SOL solutions, I would. At very least, it feels like Ian Moore's name belongs in conversations about problem solving the right side of the offensive line. So if Ethan Onianwa could somehow be part of that, if Ian Moore is now part of that, healthy. Josh Padilla has already been part of that. Now you're getting to the point where you just got to have two spots there. You maybe have five guys, and it's like, okay, well, I feel like there. There are problems that can be solved within that, which is great. So that's just a reminder that I think they can get this figured out. They just need to. Let me just give you a quote from Barry Odom and then I think we'll maybe wrap it up here. Purdue coach Barry Odom on Ohio State. That's what we're chasing right now in our league. They're setting the standard. So every day working to chase that, from recruiting to development to calling the game, right now, they are setting the standard. We talked a lot during the week about how Ryan Day was very complimentary of Barry Odom, the first year coach of Purdue. And here's Barry Odom being complimentary of Ryan Day in Ohio State. It is just a reminder, like, we can get in here. You can get trapped in a bubble, and you come in here, it's like, oh, man, what's wrong with Ohio State? But it's like, this is you. Ohio State goes on a trip like this, and they've had some rough games in West Lafayette. Although there's. This is four in a row where they just handle business against Purdue, even Though Purdue did get the backdoor cover, it's a reminder that that's how they're viewed. Not that that's a surprise.
- [51:13]
B
Yeah.
- [51:13]
A
But that whatever they are not doing, the. Their opponents are focusing on what they are doing and saying, like, man, we would like to be able to do that.
- [51:21]
B
Yes. 95 of the Big Ten would love to have Ohio State's problems.
- [51:28]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [51:30]
B
Right now. Yeah. I mean, I thought, you know, I want to. I thought Purdue played pretty hard, like, considering the position they were in. And they had that, like, had that nice drive. Ryan Brown had a couple nice scrambles. So they did what more or less they were capable of, given the significant talent advantage they were dealing with.
- [51:48]
A
Yeah. 13 of 22 passing for 94 yards for Purdue between Ryan Brown and Malachi Singleton on the ground, 22 carries, 92.
- [51:58]
B
Yards.
- [52:01]
A
473 to 186 in total yards. Ryan Day very happy about Ohio State. On third down, nine of 13. Purdue was three of nine. And then again, like, the red zone. This was one of those. We talked about the red zone coming in that, like, you know, they did have the pick in the end zone. They had the field goal in the red zone, as you said. But Purdue had the 8th best defense in the country in terms of not allowing touchdowns in the red zone. So of all the things that Purdue did well, that was maybe the thing that stood out the most in the end, though, that what did say and say about that read. Because it was one of those. And if you went through the list of great quarterbacks, how many of their interceptions come at the hands of dropping defensive linemen? Right. Or linebackers who are lurking underneath. That's how you get those guys. And so that was C.J. nunnally, their best defensive player, who's a rush end, who wound up being the guy who intercepted that. But also, it wasn't that sneaky. Did he say anything about exactly what he saw in that pick or Ryan Day kind of said, like, he'll learn from it. And it was one of those where maybe he wished he could have gone to the other sideline instead of the Ohio State sideline after throwing that.
- [53:05]
B
Yeah. Cyan just said he was being reckless with the ball and that I think they. Purdue caught them in a different look. They ended up dropping eight on third and third and seven. Third and goal from the seven, I think is actually pretty tricky to convert because, like, you. You kind of have to throw it, but you don't really have any room to throw it. I guess you can, like, I mean, it would have drove oxy pants crazy if they tried to run the ball there, but it's a tougher spot to try to convert. And then Purdue ended up dropping 8, and there was just really nobody to throw to. I thought. I thought if they. If they did it immediately off the snap, they. They could have flipped it to Donaldson in the flat and. And maybe he could have run it in or at least gotten down to the one, and then maybe you can push Sane into the end zone. That was kind of the only available option, but Julian didn't take it. And that's not the first time that's happened. Right. You know, I think Julian Sayings red zone passing is probably the thing he needs to continue working on the most.
- [54:05]
A
Okay.
- [54:05]
B
It's also. It's also very difficult, but, yeah, just didn't take. Didn't take what was there immediately and then tried to force the ball to Jeremiah. He said he was being reckless with it. He should have thrown it out of the end zone, and then they should have just been happy with kicking the field goal. So he was. Yeah, he was pretty upset with himself on that one.
- [54:21]
A
It's hard, though, because then, like, you know, Ryan Day would have been mad they kicked a field goal. Fans would have been mad they kicked a field goal. We would have been like, man, what's wrong with this red zone conversion? They can't get touchdowns in the red zone. So it's hard in that moment because probably there. If he doesn't take the guy in the flat, once they drop eight, he might be dead. Right. Unless he's gonna actually run it right or something. Like, once they drop a. You're probably dead. But. But surrendering to the field goal attempt is a very difficult thing to make yourself do, and nobody's happy with the field goal attempt. Oh, Ryan. Ryan, I have a question about your red zone TD conversion rate. What's the problem there? But 3 is still better than 0. So that is. That is. Man, I. If it's like he hasn't made a glaring mistake in so long, it stands out so much. But you can almost. You can feel as much as he was reckless, you can get it because he's. I'm stumbling through this three hours later. This is exactly what he's thinking in 1.9 seconds and being like, well, I don't know. I guess I'll just try to rip it to the best receiver in the country and see what happens. And then it's like, oh, shoot. Because as you said, there were, like, five guys, five Purdue defenders. Between Julian Sane and Jeremiah Smith and that ball was not getting through.
- [55:40]
B
It was never gonna, it was never gonna get there. Like I, I appreciate that Jeremiah is over there somewhere mentality. I think by and large it'll serve Jul well but it did not on, on that play. But to your point, he's not, he's not really made many mistakes. That was, that ended a streak of 173 consecutive pass attempts without an interception which is pretty ridiculous for a guy in his first year starting. So and I don't think we've ever seen Julian saying like make the same mistake twice. So knock on wood I guess. But I'm not, I, I, I think we maybe will not see that the thing you sort of touched on it there. I, I, I am a bit curious to see should say an encounter that scenario again. Does he just dirt it and throw it out of the end zone or does he try to run for it? I don't think he would have gotten there but I think you would have gotten, you would have gotten something and then it's whatever fourth and goal from the two.
- [56:36]
A
And I will say like in this situation against Purdue, a pick in the end zone is not the worst thing that can happen there. The worst thing that can happen is he tries to run and he gets abducted by aliens at the five yard line.
- [56:50]
B
Short.
- [56:51]
A
Right. Like, like. So there are moments where it's like you've got to get in the end zone here. If that's a semi final and they're down five points on that play. Right. That's a different equation. But I like you could, I feel like you could maybe that'd be a good story this week. Could we freeze that? Could you have the all 22 right. Could we, could we freeze that from the snap and, and do like how many calculations do you think Julian saying might have made in the three seconds before he threw that pick? Because here's all the options and none of them are good. So what should you do? I'm intrigued by that. In this moment in the regular season against an overmatched opponent in a game that you know Ohio State's going to win when it's a long season. What should you do there? And, and is it possible that pick in the end zone is actually not quite as bad as you would think because you didn't give up and you didn't put your body at risk?
- [58:03]
B
I don't know.
- [58:04]
A
I don't know. I don't know.
- [58:06]
B
I think given, yeah. Given the state of this game, the opponent, everything sort of about about it circumstantially there's probably value in figuring out how to score a touchdown there even if it ends up not going your way, right? So like now like lesson learned to the negative. And then you hope that the next time that that moment arises that the muscle memory will kick in and Ohio State gets a touchdown there doesn't have to settle for three because I would.
- [58:33]
A
I would wonder if you could tell on the all 22 if a third of a second after the snap they're dead. And because really it's like Julian saying made the mistake but the call probably got beat, right? The call was beat by a drop 8 coverage. So then what? So now you're in scramble mode. So I don't know, maybe we can dig into this. We got stories to figure out. I want to talk. We'll do the rest of this on Sunday. Sound off. We would invite you guys to join us first, like subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug show here. We're so grateful that you guys join us every week. It's our privilege to get to hang out with you. But we do even more on Substack. We do a Wednesday big long show on Substack. We do a Sunday morning show with comments and questions we write during the week. We certainly would invite you to join us. Billanddugosu.substack.com I want to talk about some of the rotational stuff with other people who worked in and there was a particular defensive look on the first drive that was like, oh, that is interesting. And I want us to get into that on Sunday morning. We're going to talk about the pad popping that we heard from the running backs and what we think this means for Bo Jackson and Isaiah west and everybody else down the line. Anything else that pops up. I actually want to talk about the 2 minute drill, the 45 second drill and also the drive before that when they had a four minute drill like from the 13 yard line. Like their ability to go in super slow motion and then speed it up and what that says about that offense. So we'll cover all of that on Sunday morning. But Bill, before we let you go, just vibe scene crowd seemed like a lot of Buckeye fans there in West Lafayette during the game. Yes.
- [60:03]
B
Yeah, a ton of Buckeye fans here. And I'll say this like listen, like it's not that long of a trip, right? Like for from Columbus, a straight shot. It's probably three and a half, 345 or something like that. What they've done to this stadium to renovate it. Since the last time I was here, it's like a pretty good place to see a game. So, like, I know it can be hard to see the Buckeyes in the shoe sometimes are too expensive. I don't think the get in price for this one was particularly high. So if you're someone who has the means or interest to travel to watch Ohio State play, I think this would be a good spot to do it in the future because it's a nice college town. The stadium's right in the middle of campus. Basically getting in and out is pretty easy. And they've done some really cool renovations to this place to make it a fun place to watch a game. And Purdue does a pretty good job with its presentation too. So, yeah, it was a good scene. A ton of Ohio State fans here. A lot of the Purdue fans seem like left at halftime, but most of the Ohio State fans hung around and it sort of felt like a Buckeye home game in the second half. So. Yeah. And the weather held off. It didn't. Didn't rain. Doesn't really look like it's going to anytime soon either.
- [61:07]
A
So.
- [61:07]
B
That was nice.
- [61:08]
A
Too nice. And the world's largest bass drum.
- [61:11]
B
Yeah, they got a big drum. They got a big drum train they drive on the field. Yeah. I will say, if you don't like train horns, maybe don't come here, but if you're okay with train horns, you can come here.
- [61:24]
A
We should do that. Rank the sounds from Big Ten games. Train horn. Do they make a duck sound? Do they like a third down in Eugene, do they go. That would be annoying if they did that. All right, we'll see a bunch of you on the Sunday sound off Sunday morning. We'll see a bunch of you over there on substack and we'll see a bunch of you here on YouTube. We'll have around the shoe on Monday like we always do. Playoff show on Tuesday night. Reacting to the latest rankings, I do think I'll be curious to see how the. The committee judges Indiana's game against Penn State. Is it. I. I think it might have been section Landis. That might have been section I. It's. It's hard for Big Ten.
- [62:05]
B
Looked like some, some big shin to me.
- [62:07]
A
Yeah, Exciting. Yeah. Big shin. Yeah. Exciting. Not necessarily good. Now the play at the end was amazing, but like Indiana put themselves in a spot and then also Penn State with a chance to win it all, like let Indiana go do all of this. So, you know, you got to call it out when you see it. But I'll be curious to see how the committee reacts to that. Anyway, thanks to you guys for hanging out. For now, he's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lemurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.