← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State blows out Grambling State: Postgame reaction as Julian Sayin is on target
00:50:39
The Ohio State Buckeyes beat Grambling State 63-0 in Ohio Stadium on Saturday and Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis jumped on live right after the game to break it all down.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:20]
Doug LaMarisa
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show Post game show here. After Ohio State's 70 to nothing victory over Grambling State, I'm in the home office Bill Landis at Ohio Stadium. Landis, we missed it by this much. We both said 63 nothing. Buckeyes.
- [01:35]
Bill Landis
You know you don't cheer for anything in the press box, but that, that touchdown Lake got called back and I was like all right, maybe the Dozer might hit. But no, it was cool to see Sam Williams Dixon score a touchdown there too. That's fine. We're off by a touchdown. That's okay.
- [01:48]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, it's, it's better for the young men. All three cleveland.com guys also pick 63 nothing. So it would have been a great. But no one cares. I think this is how I maybe would like to approach this Bill Landis after Ohio State's dominating victory with a lot of good things that happened for the Buckeyes. We have a substack page where people can subscribe and we do a show we call Sunday Sound off on that substack page where we get questions and comments from our paid subscribers and we do that on Sunday morning. I would perhaps we're not going to go 90 minutes on this in a 70 point game. I would perhaps like to save the young backups for that show because I think there are some super interesting things that we can dive into and then maybe spring ahead. When you see what guys like Riley Pettajohn and Devin Sanchez gets on the field, I would. There's one guy who I would say we can do right now, but what do you think of that? We'll do the stars and the studs here and the interesting young guys tomorrow.
- [02:48]
Bill Landis
Sounds great. Let's do it.
- [02:51]
Doug LaMarisa
Julian Sayan 18 of 19 for 306 yards, four touchdowns, one pick. The only incompletions of pick started 16 of 16. He keeps Tate Martel in the record book again there's no cheering in the press box. Bill Landis. Tate Martel the only Ohio State quarterback to ever have a perfect passing game with of at least 10 attempts. 10 of 10 for Tate Martell. They showed it on the Big Ten Network broadcast. He retains the spot 100 completion percentage. Justin Fields had a game where he was 20 of 21. So 18 of 19 for Julian sand is the third best passing game of all time for an Ohio State Buckeye. So we didn't get Tate. What did you think of Julian's. What did you think of Julian saying?
- [03:33]
Bill Landis
I wish I could tell you how many people were yelling at me in the press box was happening. You know, I thought, I thought saying was very good. I was glad to see him push the ball down the field. So listen, let's see. This is an incredibly overmatched opponent that has no depth, right? So I do think we have to, we have to remember the context of this. And even like Jeremiah Smith scored two touchdowns where nobody was covering him but Julian saying as a quarterback, I mentioned this in our chat over on Substack, he had, I think it was 10 high school games where he completed at least 80% of his passes. He's just not going to miss open guys, right? And there were a lot of open guys in this game and he didn't, he didn't miss any of them. He had the one, you know, poor decision on the interception. But in this type of setting against this type of team, you want to see him look sharp. You want to see him build upon I guess in some respects what he put on the field last week. And, and I thought he more or less did that, right? I, I would, I want to go back through and re watching and, and pull out the like the throws where you like kind of had to do something other than just throwing the ball to a wide open guy and see what those look like. But there wasn't in two games really, he's made one bad throw and it happened to be an interception on the goal line in this game today. But yeah, he's, he's, he's pretty dialed in and he's incredibly accurate and he's. Comedy's poised and he wasn't pressured at all today. But yeah, for what it was, for what the game was. I thought it was a nice day for Julian saying.
- [05:00]
Doug LaMarisa
You mentioned this last week. I think the only play you didn't like last week and Ryan Day, same thing is when he rolled out kind of near the end of the game where they're trying to put it away and he spiked a ball when, when nobody was open. But that's a decision, that's not a throw. The idea that he doesn't miss, right, he kind of layered that first touchdown throw to Will Kazmark. He had another nice throw in the middle of the field to Jelani Thurman. He, he put the Carnell Tate touchdown ball, like, right in a tough spot.
- [05:29]
Bill Landis
But it's with good, really good pace.
- [05:32]
Doug LaMarisa
He ripped it in a spot where Tate had to make a very nice catch to do it. But that's exactly where Julian saying wanted that ball to go. Right?
- [05:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah, no, that, that is, that's ball placement. That's. You kind of put it where only your guy can get it or it's going out of bounds kind of situation. But you also gotta, you gotta really pump that thing in there too in that kind of situation. And he did that. That. That's what we've been. I don't know if it's like a revelation about Julian saying or not, because we knew that he had really good arm talent, but he can change his speeds on throws like whatever, whatever the situation sort of asks for a layered throw. A bullet like that one. The Carnell Tate, he can do it. You see a lot of quarterbacks who are like what quote unquote, like one speed throwers. That is not Julian saying he can, he can give you whatever speed you need in the moment.
- [06:19]
Doug LaMarisa
I. Looking back at the way this quarterback competition unfolded and we did get a nice look at Lincoln Keenholtz and then a little appearance by Tavian Sinclair in the fourth quarter. I think there was a lot of questions about how real was the quarterback battle, like what was really going on there. And I think it may be affected. Maybe it did to me at least. Maybe some of the people watching and listening affected their expectation level for Julian saying. Because there are some coaches who just be like, yeah, we're going with the five star second year guy. What do you think we're doing? I think Lincoln Keenholtz is a real dude, but I also think Ryan Day wanted the young five star second year guy to take nothing for granted. He wanted him to be pushed. But now that we've seen it for two games, Landis, like how, how would you characterize the ball placement, the accuracy, the arm talent, the processing with a guy like this? We know it's great, but, but man, he doesn't miss. As you said, off the top.
- [07:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I would say that it is. So like the best we've seen with that is C.J. stroud. Right. And C.J. stroud's name is one that probably tends to come up the most. If you ask Ryan Data to compare Julian Saying to guys he's had in the past and, and C.J. stroud's got two years worth of, of play at Ohio State to sort of reminisce on and Julian saying has two games. So I guess what I, what I would say is he feels like he's on track for that. Right. If that, if that's your comparison, then through two games, that makes sense to me. A lot, lot to do, you know, tougher games ahead, moments he's going to have to answer when Ohio State needs him to. But in terms of like the throws he's able to make, the way he sees things, I get why CJ Stroud's name comes up. So it's a lot of pressure. Those are big. It's a, that's a heck of a name to try to live up to here because I thought when C.J. stroud was playing like he was the, maybe the best college passer I've seen, like up there at least. And maybe he doesn't, maybe Julian Saying doesn't quite have the downfield power of C.J. stroud, but I think it's pretty close. That's, I guess the one thing we haven't seen him have to do just yet. Although the one he threw the Jeremiah Smith today, he did have a throw about 40 yards in the air. There was nobody around Jeremiah. So yeah, I, it's hard for me. Like, I don't want to, I don't make too much of like what happened today because of who they played, but you can get really carried away very quickly and I'm going to try not to do that. But if you had a vision coming into the year of what you thought Julian saying should look like, if you were going to be really excited about it, he's looked like that through two games.
- [09:02]
Doug LaMarisa
The idea of like the first game they're Just going to like, keep it simple. And now against an overmatched opponent, you let him do what he's going to do. But it's because it's one of those things. It's not just like he played well. It's like he didn't. He didn't miss a throw until he missed the one throw. Right. But like he. There. There's not. Because you just go through Kate club. Nick's throwing it to the other team. You know what I mean? Like Arch Banning, San Jose State is significantly better than Grambling. But again, like, it's not like the thing that I think you have to be careful of is. And I just. It's just the situation and you. And I got you and I talked about this on the pregame show. It's just such a degree of a team being overmatched that it's just sort of a different level than playing a max school. Right. And by the way, Ohio State has a chance to play a pretty interesting game next week against Ohio University, who currently is leading West Virginia late in the fourth quarter. And Parker Navarro is. They just made a defensive play. I think a Parker Navarro for. Oh, you has had a great game at quarterback. So, so, so you have to keep that in mind. But there's also something to be said for like being almost perfect. Right. And so I do think like for. For a guy this young to show first the poise and then next week we're going to open it up and now you show all the accuracy. I only think there's one thing left. Bill, do you want to guess what it is?
- [10:24]
Bill Landis
No, what is it?
- [10:26]
Doug LaMarisa
Toughness. Which is the thing that, that when Ryan Day. Ryan Day wants the quarterback, once the arm talent processing, accuracy package. Right. But then once he has that, he wants to wrap it in toughness. And all the times that he talked, you know, Justin Fields taking shots in the ribs, leaving a game and coming back in right. CJ Stroud breaking a sack and throwing a touchdown against George in the semifinal like that. I already think he's sort of to. He's run through the first 10 levels of the game in two games. And again, like, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but also it'd be realistic. This guy had high, high expectations and he's meeting them. And so now it's just about surviving in the meat grinder because they protected him a little bit because they could in week one. Overmatched opponent, week two. And now here comes a real Big Ten schedule and he's going to get Hit. He's going to get planted on a sack. He's going to get hit out of bounds. He's going to, you know, he's going to have something happen. They're going to have to ask him to cat. He's got to carry the ball at some point and nobody's going to be open and he's going to have to run on third and three. And that is the final piece of Orion Day quarterback. But man, like he's already, I feel like eight or nine pieces into this two games in.
- [11:46]
Bill Landis
I think you're right. I would also say though that, you know, he didn't have to run the ball against Texas, but he did have a throw a ball out of his own end zone with Colin Simmons bearing down on him against Texas. Carnell Tate. Right. So that, that to me is, is some measure of toughness in the moment. Right. Of just like making the player team needs you to make. Otherwise it's a pretty catastrophic situation in a game like that. So. So he, he did that there. Yeah. He'll have to use his legs a little bit. I even thought maybe like, I don't know, I think I watch the interception. I guess there was some pressure that got to him late. So I don't know if he actually could have scrambled like that play. Sort of like a two man thing. It was. There was nowhere to go with the ball but he just sort of threw it anyway. Maybe you like to see him scramble a little bit there and see what you can get. But yeah, this, this was never really going to be a game that tested that. And think Ohio State hopes that like the Ohio game's not either. But the Washington game might like on the road, tough place to play. They have, you know, big, big fast dudes on Washington's defense and Washington's roster. So those moments will come and we'll see how he responds. But thus far, like I said, like the boxes he's needed to check, he has.
- [12:51]
Doug LaMarisa
I do think because. Do you think this would lead some defenses to take some risks against him? Is he already reached the point where a defensive coordinator would say if you give him a pocket, he's going to pick you apart. If you try to play coverage on him, he's going to hit a tight window. So we got to go get him. We got to make him uncomfortable. We got to bring six and take the risk of manning up in coverage and then how. We'll see how he responds to that if people are trying to get him off his spot.
- [13:16]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so. I don't I don't know if that's next week or not, but I think, like, Washington's going to try to challenge them in that way. Like, Washington's gonna play man coverage and try to come after him and. And they'll have the advantage of having the loud crowd behind them, too. So, you know, these two games for Julian saying I think are about building a rhythm, building a rapport, finding ways to be a little more explosive. And then the next test is going to come in in three weeks when they go to Seattle. But. And it's not the bypass Ohio. I think Ohio is a good team, like a good Mac team and Ohio a lot of Mac teams, but it's not always played like good Mac team. This could actually be a legitimately good Maxine. We'll talk about that more during the week. I. I suspect so. Yeah. Like that. That's. That's coming. But it's not even. I'm not like, worried about it. I'm just interested.
- [14:03]
Doug LaMarisa
No.
- [14:04]
Bill Landis
See it. Right. I'm just interested. Yeah. Yeah.
- [14:07]
Doug LaMarisa
No, no, no, no, no. How could you be worried about anything with Julian saying. But it's like, I. I also. It's just like in the moment of a guy who has handled every test, the reminder of not quite finished product. Right. When you've got to go do it. And it's only based on experience and opportunity, but checking every box. 18 of 19 for 306 and four touchdowns will do it for you. Jeremiah Smith, five catches, 119 yards, two touchdowns. Hard. It's again, best of luck to the Grambling State Tigers the rest of the season. I hope these players can leave Ohio Stadium and have fond memories and tell stories to their children and grandchildren about playing in Ohio Stadium. But they blew two coverages on the two touchdowns. Right? The guy like, no, as you said. What did you think of getting the ball to Jeremiah Smith? What did you think of Jeremiah Smith today?
- [14:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Good. You just wanted to see him score a couple touchdowns and he did. Like, I don't know that you could really put many more expectations on it than that. I even thought that maybe they could have gotten him out of the game earlier because of how good he is and how important he is. So it was fine. Like, it's hard. It's hard to put much into it when he wasn't covered, but I guess it's a good thing. I don't know. They're not really comparable, but Jeremiah Smith was like, pretty wide open early against Texas last last week and Julian saying didn't throw the ball. And when Jeremiah Smith was wide open, as his wide open can be on the first opportunity against Grambling, he threw the ball. So yeah, maybe there's a, maybe there's a lesson learned there. But yeah, five targets, five catches, 119 and two touchdowns was a relatively light workload for Jeremiah Smith. But nice to see him be productive.
- [15:51]
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- [17:08]
Doug LaMarisa
I will address this briefly. I don't think it is the main thing that you need to do coming out of a game like this. I've had plenty of arguments with people over the years about letting guys play in blowouts. Because honestly, if you took Ohio State players out of the game the moment the result was no longer in doubt, you would have locked everybody in their dorm rooms this week. Right? Like what's like, you have to. There's some threshold of you work out all winter, you practice all spring, you work out all summer. And guess why? Because playing football is fun. You've got to let them play. But I thought they handled it right today. Occasionally this has been a topic of conversation over the years. Did you have any issues with the way Ryan Day handled substitutions today?
- [17:51]
Bill Landis
No, no. There were a couple spots where they were getting guys in earlier. Julian saying's gotta, gotta have game reps with Jeremiah Tate. Right? So no, there was. If they would have, if he would have, you know, trotted them out There for all the third quarter maybe, but they didn't do that. So I thought it was fine.
- [18:09]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, I thought this level of opponent, a good solid half pedal down the whole first half, go ahead and do that. I thought it made a lot of sense. I thought to get to keen holes at the start of the second half and then David Sinclair in the fourth quarter. I thought they handled it exactly right. I was looking at. I guess, I guess they. They update them. They do. They update them during the games. The Heisman odds. I looked on Fanduel and as the game ended, both Julian sand and Jeremiah. I know this is how, you know they updated him because Kate club next falling. Both Jeremiah Smith and Julian saying were tied for the ninth best Heisman odds at 20 to 1. Cade Clubnik also in that group. Is there anything in a game like this where you think they need to. They needed to pump up Jeremiah Smith's Heisman stats and try to get him four touchdowns instead of two or anything like that?
- [18:58]
Bill Landis
I would listen to an argument, I guess if that's something you're concerned with, you know it's. It's hard. Right. Because this is a game too where you have the opportunity to spread the ball around a lot and not every game is that way. So there's always a balance with that. And I don't think that Jeremiah Smith is going to be hurting for attention. Right. Because we've had conversations about Ohio State receivers in the past and I know I state done enough to like promote them even or like, or like get them the ball and kind of pump up stats. I just don't think Jeremiah needs that. He's like the second most famous player in college football behind Arch Manning. And Arch Manning is, is not really impressing people right now. So I, I was not really thinking along those lines as Ohio State was pouring on touchdowns. Two, two on five catches and five targets is a pretty good day.
- [19:48]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, I agree with that. I don't, I don't. I just wanted to throw it out there. I don't think six, 60 more yards and two more touchdowns is going to be the difference of whether Jeremiah Smith wins the Heisman Trophy or not. As much as voters can often be beholden to statistics, they did spread it around today. As you mentioned, 10 touchdowns, nine different guys. Bo Jackson had one rushing. C.J. donaldson, Isaiah west and Sam Dixon all had one rushing. Jeremiah Smith had two receiving. Cardinal Tate, Will CAS America and Jelani Thurman each had one receiving. So I thought that was handled appropriately. Who do you think is Ohio State's better Heisman candidate right now, Jeremiah Smith or Julian Sands?
- [20:29]
Bill Landis
Jeremiah Smith. Still, I think there's a, there's a pathway to it being Julian saying that I can see, but I would still say it's Jeremiah Smith.
- [20:40]
Doug LaMarisa
I don't know if I can even see it. I can see a pathway to both getting to New York. But I think Jeremiah Smith, with what everybody believes as far as the talent that he brings to the field, how special he is. Julian saying, can't put up ridiculous numbers without Jeremiah Smith being a part of them. So it's not a primary discussion. I was just curious.
- [21:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [21:03]
Doug LaMarisa
Because I do think we'll, we'll let. I see the, I see the good folks in the chat. I know what they want to talk about. But before we get to that, I'm not trying to be a jerk now. I'm trying to be a jerk, but I want to actually talk about this and I wrote it down and I don't want to forget it. And I forget things. The bands you were sort of telling us in the, in the substack chat that you did not feel like the Grambling Band got a lot of time.
- [21:32]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they're actually playing right now. They're doing a post game concert with Ohio State's band, which is nice, but there's like there are some people here, but there's not a lot of people here. I'm glad there are some people here. I don't know if there's mostly band families or what, but yeah, both bands are on the field right now playing. Yeah, it was me. So the alumni band was here, which is like always cool. It's very cool to do the quad script Ohio. It's awesome. And there's like a billion alumni band members. And actually I like when that day happened. I just thought it was weird to do it today because the Grambling Band is such a thing. And I even felt like the crowd's reaction to the Grambling Band was like stronger than the reaction to the alumni band and the Quad Script, Ohio. Like, they were excited to see them. And then they got like five minutes and a halftime because they actually added, they added time to halftime so they would have a little bit more. And they still only got five minutes. So it was good. It was really cool to see. I, I and like, you know, Grammar didn't score, so it didn't feel like the Grambling Band was playing a lot during the game either. So like, I, maybe it's, it's a silly thing to get caught up on. I Understand that. But it is also kind of a special thing when you have a band that's like this famous and well, world renowned in some respects, maybe could have been showcased a little more. It's like partly the reason for the game happening. So, yeah, it was a little bit of a bummer, I guess. I would have like to see them do some more stuff during the game and have more time at halftime.
- [22:51]
Doug LaMarisa
Did they tell the fans at the end of the game, stick around for the band? Was that like a huge announcement?
- [22:57]
Bill Landis
I don't know. The OSU band always plays, right? So I think people noticed it because of that, but I don't. I was like moving around to come in here to the. I'm in the visiting radio booth to do the show, so I didn't hear what said. I don't know if I did or not.
- [23:11]
Doug LaMarisa
Okay, well, I hope. I hope it was a worthwhile visit. You would like to see that accentuated. It is a great part of what both these universities bring to a football game. And I agree with you. Just maybe the timing could have worked out a little bit better. Although Ohio State has a lot of stuff going on, people are noting that the SEC is on. The south is on fire. Missouri did beat Kansas. Georgia. Georgia 28, 6 over Austin P. Texas A M 44 to 22 over Utah State. But I did put. I put a little bit. Florida.
- [23:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [23:50]
Doug LaMarisa
South Florida on the money line. Alex Golesh, Ohio zone. South Florida only down 1615 to Florida right now. So we will monitor this. And obviously Clemson is messing around. They had a lightning delay and all those kind of things. All right, people want to talk about running backs and we will talk about running backs here. James Peoples, eight carries for 59 yards. C.J. donaldson five for 45. Bo Jackson six for 40. Isaiah west five for 29. I did think. I thought James Peoples.
- [24:21]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson was 9 for 108.
- [24:24]
Doug LaMarisa
Oh, it was 6 for 40 when I wrote it down. No, no, no, no. That's ESPN. It didn't update.
- [24:31]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson nine for 108 in a touchdown.
- [24:34]
Doug LaMarisa
Okay.
- [24:34]
Bill Landis
Do you want me to give you. I don't know. I actually didn't hear all what you just said. You want me to run through the official stats?
- [24:40]
Doug LaMarisa
Eight. Okay, go ahead, go ahead. You're. Oh, I'm Mr. Official. I'm in the stadium. I have the official stats.
- [24:45]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson, 9 for 108 and a touchdown. He had a 51 yard early. James Peoples, 8 for 59. C.J. donaldson, 5 for 45 and a touchdown. Isaiah West 8 for 42 and a touchdown.
- [24:57]
Doug LaMarisa
I thought James Peoples did run more decisively. Obviously the level of opponent was much lower. But did you think he looked a little bit better?
- [25:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, and they also. I did. I think the, the areas he had it to go to were easily identifiable, if that makes sense. Like he wasn't, he didn't search a whole lot. He didn't have to search a whole lot to find where he's supposed to go. I also thought too that they kind of, they, they brought the stretch play a little bit in this game and I thought people maybe looked a little more comfortable running that play. So that's perhaps something to, to monitor moving forward that they try to get him going a little bit more east west instead of north south on, on some run plays. But yeah, he definitely, he and Donaldson both look, look better, more explosive obviously and, and seeing things much better than they did last week.
- [25:45]
Doug LaMarisa
That being said, there, there are a gazillion comparisons being made between Ohio State and Alabama right now. Right. I mean we just. Yeah, we, we understand why. I think it's, I think it's a relevant, non. Ridiculous conversation. I, as much as Saban is the greatest of all time, I do not think it's a ridiculous conversation. And I don't know exactly what this means, but, but I almost like when you think about those Saban teams, Bo Jackson almost looked like a Bama running back to me. I, I don't know that. It just looked a little bit more like a Trent Richardson or a Derrick Henry or like some of those Bama backs where it just is like, like what is that guy doing? How would any person tackle a person that fit and that fast? What did you think about Jackson today?
- [26:47]
Bill Landis
Looked like what I thought it would look like once he got the ball right. And again like he's in there against Grambling backups. So like, like context, context, context. But that first touchdown run, it was actually like kind of a muddy picture and he found the crease immediately and burst through it and scored a touchdown. I was like, yeah, that's it. So I, I don't know, like, I want him to get more work next week and like against a better caliber of defense with better athletes to see if he pops the same way. And even like his 51 yard run, like the guy had an angle and he erased it because he's fast. I don't like, I just, I've, I have thought coming into the year that there was an opportunity for him to keep knocking on the door. Keep knocking on the door and eventually be a guy who was getting important carries for this offense. So for him to look that way in his first action of the season was incredibly promising. You know, he's got. He's got to do it again. He has to. He has to get the chances and then do it again. Gets a better caliber of opponent. But if you just go by vision and burst and the way he was finishing runs was like running through people. He looked better on his nine carries than any other running back has looked this season. So, like, I don't know any other way to say it than that.
- [27:58]
Doug LaMarisa
And it. It's not a shot at any. At any other running back. It just. It. It's. It's one of those things where he looks at running back like so many other Ohio State guys look at their positions, right. That. That's what Jeremiah Smith looks like at receiver, and that's what Caleb Downs looks like at safety, and that's what Sonny Styles. That's what Arvell Reese looks like at linebacker. Right. And that he just like. It just. It. You can. It looks like there's something special in. In there. And a lot of people are noting that he got pulled after the fumble at the goal line. I. Are we sure that he reached. I actually thought he was just kind of. That he kind of just got hit and lost the ball. I didn't think it was like, an egregious reach. I. I don't know. He did fumble out of bounds. But anyway, remember, like, isn't this, like, Eddie George's origin story is. Eddie. Eddie George fumbled early in his career, and then, like, he became Eddie George. So, like, whatever that is, I understand why he got pulled out of the game. It's gonna have zero effect going forward. Maybe he has to, like, carry a football with his backpack to class. But Jake Butt was all over Bo Jackson on the call, and I think part of that was based on Ohio beats WVU 17 to 10. So the Bobcats coming in off a win next week to Ohio Stadium. It's. It's not going to hold him back at all. And nobody in the chat is suggesting it will hold him back. It just feels like we're going to get there and maybe sooner than later. Do you think we'll get there? To Bo Jackson perhaps being the primary ball carrier for Ohio State? And if so, how do you think this might work out over the next couple weeks?
- [29:35]
Bill Landis
I think we. Yeah, I think. I think we could get there. I think next week as long as the game goes according to plan, which is like, even If Ohio is a good match team, Ohio State should obviously still win comfortably. I would like to see maybe a three way split with the carries to see kind of who does the best. And then you'll have the bye week after that to sort some more things out. Do you want to start a true freshman, a tailback on the road at Washington in that kind of environment? Probably not if we're being honest. Because the other part about the running back position that we're not talking about is the protections and how you see things and how you handle all that. And of course CJ Donaldson has played a ton of football and you would just assume that he'd be better situated to handle some of that stuff. And James Peoples has played some football. So I don't, I don't want to ignore that very important piece of the position. So I don't, I don't think I predict that BO Jackson is RB1 for the Washington game. But I could see Bo Jackson maybe being there by like Halloween, maybe something. Something like that. Because the thing that he Ohio State I think is very clearly going to be able to find explosive plays via the pass. I don't know how often they're gonna find them with James Peoples and C.J. donaldson as their top two ball carriers. And what Bo Jackson would give you is that extra gear at running back to make you threatening in a way that I'm not sure they'd be threatening otherwise. Right. Like, and that was the case last year with Trayvon Henderson and Quinn Sean Judkins, but at all. But also like Tray beyond more than Quinn shot.
- [31:10]
Doug LaMarisa
Right.
- [31:10]
Bill Landis
Like so they were both good, they're both explosive. But Quinn, Sean was a lot of power and Treveon was a lot of I'm going to make one guy miss and I'm running 70 yards. Right. Maybe that's the balance that could lead Ohio State toward one of Donaldson or People's being the more of that power guy. More of that you need six will get you six kind of guy. And then Bo Jackson being the guy, I was like well I'll get you six. But I mean this guy missed it. I'll get you 56. Right. So I think, I think that the offense could. Will find itself wanting some of that by mid season. And I'm just not sure that Peoples and dominance are the guys that are going to give it to them.
- [31:47]
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- [33:04]
Doug LaMarisa
You make a very good point though, and we've heard this at Ohio State and from Ryan Day before about pass protection for running backs. And if this is going to be a team. We know this team, everybody knows this team can be explosive in the past game and we just talked about earlier of if defensive coordinators begin to believe, if you give Julian saying time, you're done, you've got to get after him, that means more blitz pickups for the running backs. And so I do think, I don't even, I don't know that anybody, I don't think anybody in that coaching office would disagree with the idea that Bo Jackson is probably the most explosive running back on the roster right now. But maybe that's not the most important thing because if they feel like, well, the most important thing is that we can throw the ball and be explosive in the passing game. And to be able to do that, we've got to protect Julian saying, and as much as we believe in Lincoln Keenholtz, we don't want anything happening to that guy because he's the guy who activates Jeremiah Smith. So we don't disagree, but we gotta make sure we can do that. And C.J. donaldson's played a whole lot of college football, as you said, so I just think this is, I can get out over my skis on this. The media often can. Fans often can. It's not just about what you look like with the ball in your hands. And Ohio State's had some really physical running backs over the years who have been really good at this. Who was the guy, though? Wasn't this a thing, like, two or three years ago where there was, like, a running back that if people felt like back Dallin Hayden, every time Dallin.
- [34:29]
Bill Landis
Hayden came into the game, he played well. And then we would ask Ryan Day about him. He would, I think, like, make vague references to pass protection. Never, never, never. Or even, like, ball security. Right. Because he wasn't fumbling in games, but, like, it was maybe the suggestion that he was fumbling in practice kind of stuff. Yeah. It wasn't just that he looked good carrying the ball on Saturdays. There were other things taken into consideration.
- [34:55]
Doug LaMarisa
So if for some reason next Saturday, Bo Jackson's not getting the ball, as much as I would like, you would like, fans, viewers, listeners here would like, it's not because Ryan Day and Carlos Lachlan are blind. And I also don't think there are some questions about this. There was a time, I think, at Ohio State where, like, older guys got the benefit of the doubt, and that was kind of a thing. And we had a lot of ruthless conversations about things. I don't think that would be why they wouldn't get to Bo Jackson. That because they wanted to be fair to older guys, or do you think that would still be part of it?
- [35:33]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think so. I mean, like, Devin Sanchez is on the field as a freshman in a pretty important role right now. There. There were older guys on the roster ahead of him. Yeah. I don't. Like, obviously Jeremiah Smith was. Maybe we shouldn't use him, but, like, he showed up and was in the mix right away. Jarquez Carter's a true freshman defensive tackle that has been playing in front of some older guys. So, no, I don't. I think we're past that. And maybe that's part of the nil stuff. Right. If young guy looks like he's ready to go, you got to play him. So I'm not. I'm not super worried about seniority getting in the way of the best running back playing, but it's something to monitor. It's like, it's. It's worth bringing up, but I don't know that it's a huge concern of mine right now. Yeah.
- [36:13]
Doug LaMarisa
So I. I would guess.
- [36:17]
Bill Landis
I could.
- [36:18]
Doug LaMarisa
See three different running backs getting the first three series against Ohio next week that maybe. BoJack, I would be surprised if Bo Jackson starts, but if the first series is Donaldson and the second series is Peoples or whatever, and the third series is Bo Jackson, that almost Maybe would be my expectation right now.
- [36:35]
Bill Landis
I don't know if they get to the third series and Ohio State hasn't scored yet. I don't know if they'll put bojacks in there. Okay, we'll have to. We'll have to see. People started today, which was also interesting. Donaldson started last week. People started today because Ryan Day has.
- [36:50]
Doug LaMarisa
Indicated he thinks it's exactly 50. 50. It almost feels like. Like the starting doesn't matter to them. It's 50. 50.
- [36:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I don't know. I just wanted to go to Postgate, so I don't know. I'm sure Ryan Day was asked about Bo Jackson. I can look and see if there's anything on Twitter about it, but he'll definitely get asked more about it during the week, I think. So. I think. I think. I think Bo will get a first half, like, be in the mix in the first half next week.
- [37:16]
Doug LaMarisa
Okay, so let's talk a little bit about tight ends. Also. The Jake Butt as a tight end was going wild for them, but I think justifiably so Will Kazmarick, two catches, 55 yards and a touchdown. Jelani Thurman, three catches, 44 yards in the touchdown. Max Claire, one catch, seven yards. Bennett Christian, one. One catch, one yard. And then Nate Roberts had a catch, but then they ruled that it wasn't a catch, so it's not a catch.
- [37:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [37:44]
Doug LaMarisa
So. So let me ask, let me ask this, let me ask this, let me ask this. I thought Max Claire would potentially be the X factor that unlocks this offense. And you and I sort of discussed that Max Claire would maybe sort of be that slot guy that fills in for Mecca Buka. Is that a fair characterization of our expectations coming in?
- [38:06]
Bill Landis
I said he'd be their second leading receiver this year. Yeah.
- [38:09]
Doug LaMarisa
Okay. Two games in small sample size. Not jumping to any conclusions. The whole thing with Max Claire is that he was coming to Ohio State to be a complete tight end. Keenan Bailey was going to teach him to block and be more physical. That's what he wanted. But Ohio State has other guys who have been here who have been in that world and then also looked like they could kind of catch the ball today. So I don't know where I am two games in on what is Max Claire's role as a receiver but as a fully encompassed tight end gonna be compared to what Will Kazmark's gonna do? Because, like, Will Cast Merrick looks pretty good. And. And then the other thing in, you know, a couple years ago, it was like a Big deal. Ohio State had some young corners. There were some corners in the transfer portal. Ohio State didn't go get them. They wanted to be to let their young guys develop. And that almost feels quaint now that a team would think that way. But I like to the, the guy, to me like the greatest example of that right now on this team, maybe that springs to mind because I've thought about in the off season is like, oh man. Without the transfer portal, the development of Jelani Thurman just would have led to a bigger role this year. And if you're looking for a pass catching tight end and you weren't, it wasn't so easy to go get a Purdue guy. That would have been Jelani Thurman this year and Jelani Thurman and Will Kazmark would be your two tight ends and do that. And then Jelani Thurman does some stuff and I'm like, I'll tell you what, man, I still think that guy's pretty good. So they don't need Max Claire. That's not what I mean. But I'm just, it's interesting where they may have gone from. And I don't disagree with you. You and I thought Max Claire was going to be their second leader receiver. I'm not sure he's going to be their leading tight end at the moment.
- [39:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I'm, I don't know that I'm selling my Max players. Okay.
- [39:58]
Doug LaMarisa
I'm just curious. Okay.
- [40:00]
Bill Landis
I know. Yeah. He had the, the drop drops. They have more than one drop last week he was only targeted one time. Today. I don't think Ohio State is going to show you all of what it would like to do with Max Claire in a game like this. Like the, the Will cast Merrick touchdown. Felt like we're going to get Will cast America touchdown on this play. And the same thing for Jelani Thurman's touchdown. And I think in the back of their mind they know that Max Claire is going to have plenty of opportunity. So like it wasn't a let's get Matt Claire Max Clara touchdown kind of day. Sure. And it's not to like, I'm not like Wilkins. Marik's gonna play a ton. He's a really good blocking tight end. He was awesome on the, on the play last week on Parnell Tate's touchdown blocking Colin Simmons, like he's gonna play a ton and Bennett Christian is going to play a ton and I think Jelani Thurman's probably going to play more than I would have anticipated. As like the fourth tight end because they're going to play a lot of. Of jumbo sets. It seems like maybe I'll still be wrong long term on max player. But I don't, I don't know that I'm backing off of it through, through two games because he was like getting open against Texas too. That's the other. Like he is. He's our best route running tight end. I don't think anybody. You could ask Keenan Bailey. I think he would say that. And after the catch, if you like watch what he did at Purdue. Like he's, he's the best on the team at that too. I don't really think that's up for anything.
- [41:17]
Doug LaMarisa
He looks like a receiver.
- [41:18]
Bill Landis
He looks like a receiver, which is part of the problem. Like they should just not try to use him as a tight end.
- [41:22]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, right. So.
- [41:24]
Bill Landis
So yeah, I, I don't. Will he end up being the number two receiver? I don't know. Because Carnell Tate looks like he's in really good form.
- [41:32]
Doug LaMarisa
He does.
- [41:34]
Bill Landis
So. So probably not. But I, I still think I would say that Cash Marik ends up being their third leading receiver. Even if, even if Carnell Tate and Jeremy Smith are going to be the go to guys.
- [41:44]
Doug LaMarisa
All right. I'm very curious how this continues to evolve. I want to ask you about one more play and one more guy. We're just not going to go forever. I think people are very interested to see what this Michigan, Oklahoma matchup tonight's going to look like. The counter play. Jake Butt was going crazy for the counter play. They popped a couple things on it. What'd you think?
- [42:03]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that's the, that's the run play they ran the most last week. So that's like. That's the play they want to hang their hat on. It seems it's even dating back to the spring game. They were running counter, counter quite a bit and it became probably their favorite run play toward the end of last season too. So I would, I would say that they're kind of like a counter based offense and you can run a lot of cool play action stuff off of that. So there's just a lot to build on there. Like a lot of Lincoln Riley's best offenses were built on that. So I think that's probably direct the direction that Ohio State is. Is headed in. That is sort of like another interesting layer to the running back conversation because I don't think like last week when they ran counter with James Peoples and he saw it great, that was less. It was less of an issue today because there was just a lot of space out there. But you know, running backs, certain running backs are more comfortable in certain schemes. So we need more data to say, I think definitively, you know, who a counter scheme might favor running back wise. But I do think that is sort of the base run play. You know, at times here it's been inside zone, at times here it's been outside zone. I would say through two games it looks like it's going to be countered.
- [43:18]
Doug LaMarisa
Okay. Actually, let me ask you about one other thing. Formationally, are we just never going to see four defensive linemen in the game for Ohio State on a passing down ever again? And I'm not lamenting that, but I don't think they did it today.
- [43:33]
Bill Landis
Probably not, no. Probably not on anything more than like third and five. No. Because Arville Reese is their best pass rusher. So like you just put it, you just put them up there and then you bring the extra db. Only take a defensive lineman off. It allows you to like play a little more games up front too. I think with. If we have more speed on the field of defensive line position. So. No, I, I don't think so. I think they'll become a whatever is technically like a 3, 3, 5 or something like that or 3, 3, 2, 6 or something. But the linebacker walked up to the line of scrimmage on passing downs.
- [44:11]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, we're just, I think it's gonna be Kenyatta Jackson and Bo Atkinson at end and Kaden Curry at nose and that's the three down lineman. And like the, the Caleb Downs pick today came, they had those three down linemen and then they had three guys up on the line, the two linebackers and Caleb Downs. And then Caleb Bounds downs faked a rush and, and then dropped into the passing lane and got hit in the chest by a pass. And so that ability, especially if the two and three guys that you're going to be putting in those situations, are they rushing, are they dropping? We don't know what this look is. And the three of them are sunny styles. Arvell Reese and Caleb Downs.
- [44:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [44:51]
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- [46:08]
Bill Landis
Pretty fun, right?
- [46:09]
Doug LaMarisa
I just want, I mean I know you love it.
- [46:11]
Bill Landis
I know you love it.
- [46:12]
Doug LaMarisa
It's just like we're still like, it's just, it's, it's gone like the whole like we just like the Rushman package. The Rushman package for decades. It's funny. God. And this is the thing, this is probably the wrong thing to do with a 40 mark of a post game pod. Was this not a point of contention with Larry Johnson and Jim Knowles forever? Yes. They wouldn't let Jim Knoll. It was like Larry Johnson demands a four band front and Matt Patricia came in and like yeah, they're not doing that anymore.
- [46:40]
Bill Landis
It's like, okay, well I think the personnel is different. I think too like if they had, if they had Jack and JT or whatever, Chase Young and whoever was running with him, like Tyreek Smith or whatever, Jonathan Cooper, like I think you would see more Rushman package but they don't have that. So they're not going to try to do it right like that. That's a good thing, right? They. Yeah, yeah. It seems like there's a, I don't know, it's not that they've had poor, a poor understanding of what their players can do, but I just think like a more sort of immediate reaction to like we're not going to put guys in bad spots. We're going to. Or we're not going to put us in bad spots. We're going to accentuate what, what some of these guys do best in key situations and they're doing that. So you know, might there come a time mid season where I don't know, Kaden Curry gets hot as a pass rusher or one of the young guys, like as Ion Grady is doing something maybe and then maybe you'll see Some, Some Rushman package, but I like it better with Arvo Reese, and I think. I think they do, too. So. And that's more of like the. I don't know if that's an NFL thing or not, but it's certainly a different aspect of the defense that Matt Patricia has brought to the table. And it seems like the defensive coaches have brought in, bought in on the idea as well. We saw like a bunch of five man fronts last week. We saw more of them today. Even when the young guys were out there, they were running them. So I think Ohio State's going to be a defense that is more often varying its fronts than it has for the last, I don't know, 100 years. Yeah.
- [48:11]
Doug LaMarisa
All right. Two things I want to cover very quickly. Dodge Chrysler is asking, why don't we have our free podcast on Spotify? We do.
- [48:18]
Bill Landis
We do.
- [48:18]
Doug LaMarisa
So they. So there's two feeds on both Apple and Spotify. There's the premium feed, which is the, like the. Two or three times a week we do a premium show for our substack subscribers. And then there is the free feed. So you just have to find both of them and subscribe. Subscribe to both of them. And then if it's locked, if the premium one's locked, like, you just can't get it if you're not a subscriber. Right.
- [48:40]
Bill Landis
Deal. If you search on Apple or Spotify, only one thing will come up and it's the free show. Okay.
- [48:46]
Doug LaMarisa
So it is. So, like, we're there. The stuff that we're doing here, anything we're doing on YouTube is available on every podcast platform. It took a couple days for that last week to get up to speed, but that's where we are now. The second thing is, is the sword in semi retirement? The sword's right there. The sword's right there. And for anybody who wants us to tell the south to cram it, we're still going to do that at least once a week, maybe twice a week here on the Bill and Doug Show. So we will indicate we did that this week. We did an Oklahoma, Michigan preview. We did Kansas, Missouri, we did Illinois, Duke. And so we're still going to keep some of that. South can cram it, Northern Ball energy.
- [49:24]
Bill Landis
We're.
- [49:24]
Doug LaMarisa
We're figuring it out specifically, but it's not gone. It's not complete like. And by the way, we are who we are. Right? So obviously this is an Ohio State focused show for an Ohio State audience, but we still have that knowledge. We still have that. I don't I don't want the south to cram it any less because we changed the name of our show, Bill. So if you're looking for that, you can still find it. Right. So just look for those shows in the feed during the week and appreciate you guys being here. The last player. I want to ask you about Bryson Rogers. You thought he had a little juice as a backup punt returner, but I think he probably just has some juice generally. Would you just like to see a little more Bryson Rogers at receiver?
- [50:09]
Bill Landis
I would, yeah. I just, like, I don't. What's the right way to say it? I. I kind of expected, like, Brandon is to look a little more explosive than he has and he. And he just hasn't. It's two games. He'll get more opportunities. But Bryson Rodgers kind of looked explosive from the moment he stepped on the field today. And like, he also made a. Like he almost made a pretty bad mistake on a punt return. He like let a ball go over his head and he got lucky that it did. It bounced back towards the field and not back toward the end zone. So it's not like you had had a perfect day, but on the one that the, the Bo Jackson touchdown drive, like, he ended up that RPO down the seam that Lincoln Keenholes threw to him and just, just had a little more. More to his gear, I thought in terms of moving around. So, yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a little more involved. Yeah.
- [50:58]
Doug LaMarisa
Curious about that. So, all right, we'll drop it here. We'll let you guys get to some of these other primetime games. But this is the plan. This is the plan for us to react instantaneously after Ohio State games here on YouTube and then it'll get into your podcast feeds very quickly afterward. Sometimes Bill will be like down at the news conference. So it'll just be me to start when it's like neither of us are going to Washington, so we'll just be chopping it up. Right. But like, this is. We want this to be a primary part of what we do, Bill, just for everybody. So as everybody, we're all getting a hang of this together. We know there are old friends here and it is just absolutely fantastic to see the old friends. It is wonderful to welcome new friends here, but this is a major part of the plan, Bill.
- [51:46]
Bill Landis
This is a major part of the plan. And also thank you to everyone who's hanging out after a 70 to nothing game when there's a pretty good college football on. So that means a lot to us. And yeah, we'll be here every Saturday. I wish we could do it live in the audio feeds as well. I don't know of a way to do that actually. So live on YouTube and then. And then hopefully in Apple, Spotify, et cetera, not too long after we wrap up here.
- [52:07]
Doug LaMarisa
And if you're here and you like this version of Bill and Doug and you have not checked out our substack, I just would invite you to check it out because you can do so just by putting in your email over there at Substack. It's Bill and Doug Osu Substack. Google it, you'll find it. And then you can poke around and see what's up. And we're kind of doing a lot of stuff over there. There's writing. There are a couple premium audio video shows a week. And we're living in both worlds. Right. Because now we are. We are just not just, but we're two guys. We're going it alone. This is what we do to make our livings. But it's also what we do because we love bringing this kind of college football talk to this great fan base out there. So of course this is Ohio State specific, but we'll still have a little bit of the other stuff now and then, and we're still working our way through, but I think we like where we are and we've had a fantastic reception and the people who are in here right now are certainly a part of that.
- [53:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And how could we not have a little bit of the other stuff when the south is just serving it up on a platter? You know what I mean? We can't ignore it.
- [53:07]
Doug LaMarisa
Yeah, yeah, no, I know, I know. I. I can't. There's so many games going on, there's so many delays. I don't know what's happening and people are acting like us. South Florida has a chance to beat Florida. Is that actually going to happen?
- [53:19]
Bill Landis
South Florida has the ball down 16, 15, 1st and 10 at the Florida 32 yard line.
- [53:25]
Doug LaMarisa
Oh my God. What is this? It's on the SEC Network. Oh my God. I. Can I even do that? I might have an allergic reaction to watching the SEC network, but if it's to watch an SEC team lose, then I think it's okay. I'll have to ask my doctor. Oh, Alex Goish, son of the North. This is one of those, right? We understand what's happening in the south and so sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils. But root for chaos was already always a primary part of, of what we were doing before. So this would be chaos. Please let me get on here and let this son of Ohio State take down the mighty Gators. See? Hold on a second. Listen, just because I don't have it out as much doesn't mean these swords still don't poke. Look at that. Still sharp, baby. All right, Landis, thanks for, for being on the scene and letting me sit here. I'm. I'm wearing, I'm mismatched socks. I'm wearing shorts and a collared shirt.
- [54:26]
Bill Landis
I'm just glad you were wearing pants when you stood up to grab the sword. So that was, that was nice. Yeah.
- [54:31]
Doug LaMarisa
You know what? If I had not been wearing pants, I would have forgotten and done it anyway because I was so excited about the idea of Florida losing. Okay, we will be back on the Sunday sound off for Substack subscribers on Sunday. Monday you'll be back with some kind of re watch here on YouTube and you might have a telestrator.
- [54:49]
Bill Landis
I, I do have one. Yeah. I'll break it out. I'll break it out for some of the videos in those stories. Yeah, I don't know what I'll focus on just yet. Probably, probably some of what the young guys were doing, but some of those going insane throws were pretty awesome and Carnell Tate had a really good game. So even in a 70 to nothing blowout, there's, there's a decent amount to get into. Yeah.
- [55:06]
Doug LaMarisa
All right, thanks to you guys for being here. It's a great opportunity just for us to be able to talk ball with a smart audience like this. So Ohio State 70 to nothing over Grambling State hosting Ohio University next week. For now, thanks for everybody who is here. Thanks for everybody who's listening back on podcast. Thanks for watching back on YouTube from Ohio Stadium, he's Bill Landis from the home office. I'm Doug lamarisa. That was the Bill and Doug show.
- [55:41]
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