← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State defense reactions: Matt Patricia finally explains how the Buckeyes are using Arvell Reese
00:40:43
Ohio State's defense is the focus of this episode of The Bill and Doug Show after defensive coordinator Matt Patricia and defensive players Sonny Styles, Lorenzo Styles Jr., Kenyatta Jackson and Kayden McDonald met with reporters on Monday evening.
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- [00:00]
Doug Les Maurice
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- [01:30]
Doug Les Maurice
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Douglas and Bill Landis reacting to defensive interviews with Ohio State Buckeyes ahead of the Cotton bowl against Miami. They happened Monday evening. We're recording this Monday evening. We're getting it to you on Tuesday morning. Douglas Maurice in the home office. Bill Landis out in the world and I just want to say Landis that I I thought we talked to Matt Patricia, Kaden McDonald, Kenyatta Jackson, Lorenzo Styles and Sonny Styles and I thought we got the main thing we wanted to get done. I thought we got a pretty decent answer out of Matt Patricia on Did you feel like we were moderately successful in that?
- [02:21]
Bill Landis
I did was a little worried we weren't going to be. But then, then you, you and I kind of kind of cleaned it up in the end, which was nice. But yeah, I thought it was interesting. It's always interesting to me and I don't know if it is to you when you present like a theory to a coach and then in his answer, he gets this, like, diabolical smile across his face. So that's kind of what we got from Matt Patricia.
- [02:44]
Doug Les Maurice
So couple things I want to say the thing that you and I have been talking about on this show. And by the way, thanks for being here. If you like it, give us a thumbs up on YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed so you get everything. During this Christmas week and leading into the Cotton bowl, tell a friend the Bill and Doug show. Drop a review if you're listening on a podcast feed. But mostly just thank you so much for being here. I'm a feelings guy. Bill, you understand this, right? I like to talk about football feelings, but even I at times reach my feelings breaking point. And we got to talk to Matt Patricia for the first time since when this Ohio State defensive coordinator has been doing a great job. We haven't talked to in two months.
- [03:28]
Bill Landis
Maybe it was the, the bye week before the Washington game was the last time he did a press conference.
- [03:34]
Doug Les Maurice
Okay, we got a lot of feelings. We got a lot. We got multiple hug questions, which is fine, which are interesting. But like, again, his relationship with the players. And as you have noted, every time you ask somebody about, about Matt Patricia, they say what a great relationship I have with him. It's so, so much better than it was last year. And it's like that everyone's ears perk up for a shot at Jim Knowles. And I don't think it's a shot. I just think it's a statement of fact about different coaching styles. Right?
- [04:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it is, but it is, It's. It's funny to see how, like, the different ways that it comes out. One of them on Monday was, I think Kenyatta Jackson said, like, Matt Patricia talks to everybody. He doesn't just talk to the defensive starters.
- [04:22]
Doug Les Maurice
Right.
- [04:22]
Bill Landis
And I was like, well, why'd you say that? Ye. But yeah, and like, I, I think if we had talked, if we have been talking with Matt Patricia Moore, we would certainly get into more, more ball. But because we've, we've really only talked to him, I think four times since he's got here, like when he was hired, I think in camp and then that bye week and then today or Monday. So a lot of it is still, like, diving in on what. I guess he's not a jerk. Like, I guess he's. I guess he is a nice guy kind of stuff, right? Yeah. And very little, very little on the football. So. But yeah, I Think we're. We want to talk a little football. We got something from him. Yeah, yeah.
- [05:04]
Doug Les Maurice
So even I. That's how, you know, it was. It was a lot of feelings, if even Doug. Mr. Feelings. Les Maurice is a little bit like, all right, can we just start talking about, like, yeah. Whether you should blitz more or not. He did tell a funny story about hugging Kaden McDonald before a game and giving him a big bear hug. And Kaden McDonald having a bunch of eye black on. And Matt Patricia going in the locker room before the game and being like, is my beard growing up on my face? Like, why is my. My beard look weird? And It's. The kid McDonald's eye black had rubbed up off on Matt Patricia. Which is. It's just lovely. It's gonna appear in. That anecdote is going to appear in so many Ohio State stories. You're going to read about Kaden McDonald and Matt Patricia in the next two weeks.
- [05:40]
Bill Landis
Holy moly. Yeah.
- [05:42]
Doug Les Maurice
And a single tear rolled down his cheek past the eye. No, you know, like, I mean, I. But it's nice. It is. It's nice. It's lovely. We want to know what. Why Arvell Reese isn't getting after the quarterback more. That's all we wanted to know. And so, just so people understand this, it was a live news conference. We're in the team room like we always are with Ohio State. That's where we talked to Ryan Day. It. It's not usually where we talk to players. Usually, as it has gone, we talk to players after practice. On Wednesdays, they're out at tables out on the indoor practice field. They're not standing at a podium. But because this was also on Zoom because it's mandated by the playoff and the Cotton bowl, so that people who are out of town also have access to the news conference conference. It's at a podium with a camera on them. And then people are. You start off in the room with questions, and then they go to the Zoom questions. So we started off with Matt Patricia in the room, and I didn't get called on for the first go round, and, man, there was a lot of. A lot of hugs, a lot of feelings. And then we get. And I was like, okay, I even put in the substack chat if you want to follow us on substack. Billanddugosu substack.com I was like, we want to talk ball with Maddie P. And it feels like we're not going to get to everything we want to, but. And then this voice from the heavens Came down and this is what it felt like. Imagine if you had a football question that you really wanted the answer to and then God asked your question. That's what it felt like when they called on. On the zoom. Bill Landis and Bill Landis asked Matt Patricia about using RVL Reese as a pass rusher. Thank you on behalf of a grateful nation, Bill Landis, for asking Matt Patricia that question.
- [07:25]
Bill Landis
I figured it was going to get to you and it would get asked, but just, you know, on the off chance that you were like eating like a handful of popcorn or something while you're in there. Wanted to make sure that I got in and I figured you would probably ask a follow up on it. Which, which you. Which you did. Yeah, I. So I asked him sort of. I, well, I asked him like a two parter, but he kind of only answered the second one, which was fine because it was the more interesting part of it. Like, what's the balance between when you send him as a rusher, when you use him as a spy, but then also, do you. Are you seeing any impact sort of just based off like Arvel's reputation as a guy that gets after quarterbacks that you don't. You don't have to send him and defenses react to him anyway. And that's when his face started the light up and it was like. And, and I can actually see that being like annoying at times, right? If you're trying to unleash this guy and teams are kind of scheming against him. But Matt Patricia kind of made it sound like only a plus. But it's like, this is great. We have this chess piece out there who everyone's afraid of, who everyone kind of uses to dictate what they want to do offensively. And then we have six other dudes in our defense who can go wreak havoc with the space. That. That is just sort of permitted by that. So it was, it was both like an explanation of why Arvell's numbers maybe aren't popping off the page. Only six and a half sacks and hasn't had one since the Penn State game. But also an illustration of how he continues to impact things even if he's not, you know, getting two or three sacks a game.
- [08:53]
Doug Les Maurice
And it is, you know, I think it's a pretty stark statistical difference. And also just what our eyes are telling us in terms of how our Val Reese is being used. Six and a half sacks in the first eight games of the year, none in the last five by, pff, 22 pressures in the first eight games, three pressures in the last five. Just not being used as much to get after the passer. And I, I don't think it is a gigantic drop in effectiveness. It is primarily a drop it in usage. But he really got a smile on his face when describing, you know, per your question, our offense is sliding protections toward Arvel Reese. Yes, they are. Right. And, and like that getting the benefit of Arvel Reese without actually having to use him as a pass rusher, which then allows you to drop him in coverage to use him as a spy against a quarterback who can move a little bit. And also, I think, you know, this is one of those where we had said going into this, man, it feels like if we could just talk to Matt Patricia, like get, get Philly, Billy, French, Vanilla, Matt, Patricia, Maddie P in a room for half an hour, we just like we would just zero in on this kind of thing. Kaden Curry's had a great year. I don't know how often Kaden Curry is getting double teamed because I think a lot of times they are still what they are. The most afraid of might be Arvel Reese. And I think, for instance, even that all credit in the world to all American first team all American Kaden Curry. But I think some chunk of his success is just like some chunk of Carnell Tate's success is when you have somebody like Arvell Reese or Jeremiah Smith who is a magnet for the opposition's game plan and allows everybody else to cook.
- [10:36]
Bill Landis
It does. Yeah. Do you want me to read the quote that he. The exact quote that Patricia gave. It's a little. It's a little lengthy. It's a little lengthy, but I'll read it.
- [10:43]
Doug Les Maurice
It's. Bear with me now. Are you reading this off the transcript portal provided by the Cotton Ball?
- [10:48]
Bill Landis
No, because it's not uploaded yet. I'm reading it off of somebody tweeting the entire quote. Good job by that. Which sometimes annoys me, but also great job because it's useful in this scenario. Here's a quote from Apatricia. A lot of the stuff we attacked early in the season, I think teams have kind of seen enough film on it. So a lot of times they'll slide to his spot where he is or they'll try to make sure they have him accounted for in different ways. But that's great. That gives opportunities for other players on the field. I think his impact has been great. His role, his flexibility, the way that we've been able to utilize him is super special. He's really showcased what he can do and how he can impact the game, which has been awesome to see, but we are seeing some of those game plan things that offenses do to handle him. When you have an impact player like that, offenses have to adjust. They have to do something. We're going to try to stay in front of that a little bit so.
- [11:44]
Doug Les Maurice
They'Re not pounding their head against a wall. They're like, oh, we made you build a wall. All right, we're going to have our friend over here go around the other side where there isn't a wall, and Arvell Reese is just going to stand in front of the wall and wave and say, thanks, everybody. And again, I thought you were going to say, I also like it. And this is just selfish and propaganda for the Bill and Doug Joe. And it soothes, you know, it helps our ego. I like it when we talk about a thing and then we sort of ask or present the idea to somebody in the building and they're like, yep. And I thought, like, is it not, as we've talked over the last month, like, why is Arvell Reese not putting up quarterback sacks and pressures in November? This is kind of what we thought. Right. And Matt Patricia confirmed it.
- [12:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I think it does make me want to go back and look at a little more of exactly how teams are accounting for him. There's definitely, like, I went back and watched every. Every snap of the Indiana game and specifically watched every Arbel Re snap. And you can see it, like, if they weren't. If they weren't sliding to him, they were going away from him, those kind of things. And then the opportunities that he had to actually rush, you know, he chased down Fernando Mendoza, and Mendoza just kind of threw the ball away. Like, he threw the ball into the stands, which, you know, it's not a sack, but it kind of might as well be. So it's not like he's. He's out there not doing anything. It's just that maybe plays that were going down to sacks in September and October aren't now. And I think part of that's quarterback mobility. Right. And Mendoza is. Is a mobile quarterback. But it, it was. It was interesting to me that Patricia said, like, we want to get out in front of that a little bit. And I think maybe in the answer to your question sort of suggested, like, it's a tremendous benefit to have a guy like Arvel, but also, like, we're. We're gonna have some stuff for him maybe in this game. And, and I do think maybe some of the. Some of the near sacks might might actually turn into some more production when they're playing a quarterback like Carson Beck, who's not super mobile.
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- [14:48]
Doug Les Maurice
Yeah, so like, my. Try to the. My strategy. You ask a legit ball question, and I try to dumb guy follow up. Just like. But don't you still. I mean, I know you're so. You're doing all this stuff, Matt, but don't you still sometimes just want to, like, tell Arvell Reese to go stick the quarterback because he's so good at it? And he said something like, well, you still want your good players to do the things that they're best at. And so which. Which led you perhaps to the lae portion of the Ohio State season which you believe may be coming in the quarterfinal against Miami.
- [15:21]
Bill Landis
Yes. That is the let Arvel eat portion of our proceedings. And I think it actually makes a ton of sense to. You're not. You're not reigning him in necessarily, but you do. You do need him to kind of be a little bit more. I don't know what the right word for it is, like, sort of like on the prowl against some of these more mobile quarterbacks than it is like, chasing them down directly, because if you miss him or whatever, then that's like a broken play. And that's how you get yourself out of whack. And a lot of these games on Arvel has been incredibly impressive. Spying quarterbacks, obviously it has been against guys who can run a little bit. And that's. That's just not what Ohio State's facing in this Cotton bowl against Miami. If you look at Carson Beck's numbers at Georgia a couple years ago, he scrambled okay, but he's really not been a scrambler at all this year for Miami and, and wasn't running away from the Texas A and M pressure in their first round game over the weekend. So I do think for the first time in a while there could be an opportunity for, for a guy like Arvel to kind of tee off on a quarterback.
- [16:25]
Doug Les Maurice
When you look at p. PFF has a static calls prp, a formula that combines sacks, hits and hurries relative to how many times they rush the passer. So PRP Arvell Reese's fourth in the Power Four conferences, the Power 68 teams. He's fourth in the nation. And I think the thing that, the main thing that, that we have been like talking about when it comes to this kind of thing, it's not that, it's not that defenses have figured out how to black block Arvell Reese. Like when you look at the stats, when you look at the raw stats, what happened to his sacks, what happened to his pressures, it's not that they figured out how to block him. It's that they're using him differently and using him more as a decoy, using him more as a spy. Right? But to the, to the lae part of this, a Carson Beck, not as mobile as somebody like Bryce Underwood at Michigan, as somebody like Fernando Mendoza at Indiana, as someone like Demond Williams Jr. Where Arvell Reese that was early in the season. But what he his best work in that game a lot of times was as a spy tracking demon Williams Jr. Down. So if you don't have to worry about the quarterback escaping and that, you don't maybe need to have Arvell Reese and Sonny Styles waiting as a spy on third down, you can let it rip a little bit more. But also Kenyatta Jackson mentioned this and we also, we understand the size and the, the talent of some of the Miami offensive linemen. He said Kenyatta Jackson said their, their offensive line is can move and they're big. And I do think Kenyatta Jackson and Kaden Curry have been doing some pretty good work against a lot of tackles, right? And Kaden McDonald's been doing some good work inside. Is there, is there some portion of this bill where, I don't know, like they haven't needed Arvell Reese as a pass rusher because Kaden Curry and Kaden McDonald and Kenyatta Jackson could handle that. But maybe if Miami has a Pretty good offensive line, especially at tackle. Do you need Arvel moving around? You're not sure where he's gonna be. Maybe he starts outside and loops inside and all of a sudden maybe it's. You don't have Kenyatta Jackson and Kaden Curry and Kaden McDonald winning quite as many one on one matchups. So now you need to unleash Arval Reese, which adds to the LAE aspect of this matchup.
- [18:39]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think, I think that could be the case. You know, it's funny, we've had a lot of conversations about Ohio State's opponents and how much they tend to move their defensive lines and like twist and stunt and do all that stuff. I don't know that Ohio State itself on defense really does a ton of that now. Last year in the postseason, they really, kind of the back half of the year, they did start kind of unleashing more of that and lo and behold became a more productive pass rushing unit. So maybe that's something that Matt Patricia has been holding on to a little bit because frankly they've just really not had had to do it. They've been so much better than a lot of the offensive lines. They face that, that they can kind of just line up man on man and, and beat guys. And I'm not saying that won't happen against Miami. I'm just saying it's probably the most difficult task that Ohio State has had thus far. This is a very good offensive line, but if you can incorporate Arvel into that more, whether that's like as an interior rusher, let him like think about what he was doing against guards, you know, in a Texas game way back in week one. Right. Can you do some of that stuff against Miami or, or be a guy who maybe rushes a tackle, but then you free up a looper for, for Kenyatta Jackson or Kaden Carrey, something like that. Like this is, I think because of the nature of Carson Beck as a quarterback, this is an opportunity for, for Map Patricia to get pretty creative up front if you wanted to.
- [19:56]
Doug Les Maurice
Ohio State is allowing 8.2 points per game. I think the last defense to allow kind of the last defense to allow less than 10 points per game.
- [20:09]
Bill Landis
It was Alabama, wasn't it?
- [20:11]
Doug Les Maurice
Alabama in 2011. Is that right?
- [20:13]
Bill Landis
2011, yeah.
- [20:15]
Doug Les Maurice
So it's one of those, I mean, that's like the kind of conversations we're having about this. It's like, Matt Patricia, we're so excited to finally talk to you for the first time in two months to ask you why don't you do this thing differently, why are you doing it this way? But it's like, well, I don't know, because the way that we're doing it, it makes us the most effective college football defense in 14 years. And it's like, well, there's that. But if the words that we have used to describe this Ohio State defense this entire year are like, patient, mature, selfless, sound. Right. Those kind of things. And that's made them the most difficult defense to score on in a decade plus in college football. But now, if it is time, they certainly have the ability to let it rip. If they think letting it rip is a requirement for victory, which maybe it will be against better offenses in the postseason.
- [21:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think it's not dissimilar from the offense.
- [21:11]
Doug Les Maurice
Right.
- [21:11]
Bill Landis
There have been times this year where the offense is, I don't know, just like kind of going through the paces a little bit and playing slow and not being super aggressive because they'll just drive it and score their 34 points and get out of there with a comfortable, comfortable win and they're not chasing 50 burgers. And I think the defense has done.
- [21:30]
Doug Les Maurice
A lot of that too.
- [21:30]
Bill Landis
Like, there were definitely points in the back end of the season, like post Penn State, pre Michigan, where they were not doing a whole lot defensively, both. Both on the front end and in the back end. And I think in the midst of that, trying to still some rest here or there for guys now. I think, you know, that changed a little bit when they played Michigan, certainly the change when they played Indiana. And the defense was still very good in both of those games. But. But I think you can just like continue to. To build upon that now. They. They do. Ohio State has not played a lot of like, quote unquote, like big games or matchup games or whatever this year, but when they have, they have played differently on defense. More. More. More kind of complex. Right. So I. I do think we're kind of staring that down again in this game. But some of the complexities that we saw, even like against Indiana did not really include letting Arvel Reese get after it that much as a pass rusher. He was doing a lot of other things really well, but maybe like, you can kind of layer that into everything else you're doing to. To enhance the complexity of her defense. And I don't know. I would. I don't know that I'd want to face that necessarily. It's the next. They can keep doing what they've been doing honestly and maybe be fine. It's not like there's a bunch of offensive juggernauts in this playoff. They are one of them. But there's, you know, there's maybe like three or four and I don't, I don't know that Miami is one of them. So I guess they could get by without doing some of the stuff we're talking about. But it really, it really does kind of feel like they were throttling down some stuff in the back end of the season to, to bring it back to the forefront. I think when they got the games.
- [23:05]
Doug Les Maurice
Like this, one of the things that led us into this conversation was I, you know, we did not talk to Arvell Reese on Monday, but we did talk to Sonny Stiles and I asked Sonny Stiles about like these third down situations where you and Arvell are up on the line and sometimes somebody rushes, somebody drops somebody spies. Like the offense never knows what you're going to do. And Sonny Stiles got a smile on his face and started talking about third down is the fun down. And that is when you get to do these things to try to keep an offense off balance. Just as a point of reference, Ohio State's defense allows third down convusions con 29.01% conversion rate that currently according to CFB stats is sixth in the country. Texas A and M, Indiana, Virginia, Oklahoma, UTEP ahead of them. I think at other times in this season they've been first or second in that category. So then that I asked that as that was the last question to Sonny and he's sort of talking about what he and Arvell can do in those situations. And then Stefan Kreischnik from cleveland.com Matt Patricia was up next and he immediately followed up and said, I think you might have heard what Sonny was saying, saying about third down being the fund down and that kind of thing. And, and I'm curious about this. This would be one of those. Again, I wish we could ask nine specific questions just about this. Matt Patricia was saying those linebackers in those situations, a lot of it's on them and they are making calls on their own in that situation. And that almost makes me curious. Are there situations where maybe Arvel Reese, according to the, the initial defensive call or what Matt Patricia would allow him to do in that situation could be rushing the passer more but he and Sonny Stiles are sort of deciding in the moment that's not what's needed. Let's make sure we're only going to rush three. We're going to drop eight. One of Us is going to spy. Actually, I'll spy. You go in the flat, like that kind of thing. I'm. I'm almost curious how much in those moments. What, how much, how, how free they are to do what they want to do. That. If Matt Patricia said, hey man, you guys are both up there over the guards. If one of you wants to rush, great. You guys decide amongst yourselves who has the better matchup, where the opportunity is, which side's the back on, that kind of thing. The other one drop. Or if you want to, both of you can drop. Right. I, I wonder what do you. I thought Matt Patricia's talk about their freedom there was super interesting and it makes me want to have a 45 minute conversation about it.
- [25:25]
Bill Landis
Yeah, well, it caught, it caught my ear too when, when Sonny said it initially. Sonny said, I have a quote here in front of me. We have some free will to choose what we want to do on third and long. And it's like, oh, that's interesting. I, I don't know.
- [25:38]
Doug Les Maurice
Interesting.
- [25:38]
Bill Landis
I don't know that I would assume that. Yeah. And it does make me, it makes me look at some of the Arvell stuff, I think, in a different light. Like, is he, is he just making the decision to not potentially put himself in the defense in a bad spot?
- [25:52]
Doug Les Maurice
Right.
- [25:52]
Bill Landis
By, by really going after a guy? Maybe. Yeah, I would love to. Can we get Matt Patricia, Sonny Styles and Arvell Reese just like in a round table for like a half hour talking about, talking about this stuff?
- [26:03]
Doug Les Maurice
Yeah, it's hard. And I think we'll end up asking our Substack subscribers for part of this media day for the Cotton Bowl, December 29th. We will be there. Do we go to Ohio State for 45 minutes? Is that right?
- [26:19]
Bill Landis
45 minutes. Supposed to be the whole team and the whole coaching staff.
- [26:24]
Doug Les Maurice
So I think we'll probably ask our Substack subscribers, Bill and Doug osu.substack.com how they would prefer that we use our time often in those situations. You want to talk to young guys that you haven't had a chance to talk to all year. Right. It's like, should we be talking to Quincy Porter as a receiver who's been injured? What's up with him? Should we be talking to Fahim Delane at safety and what he's learned watching Caleb Downs this year? You know, like, like those kind of conversations. Or should you glow, Go glue yourself to Matt Patricia for 45 minutes or, or go glue yourself to Arvell Reese and I should go glue myself to Carnell Tate. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, Yeah, I don't know what the right answer is, but 45 minutes is just long enough to torture us because it really great opportunity, but we want five hours. If you said everybody on the team in the room for five hours, go, you and I would still be yapping and most of the Ohio State, State beat would still be yapping when it got to the 5, 5 00.
- [27:26]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I actually, this is nice to have to have the substack people kind of direct us because I like, I actually, for as long as I've been doing this, like still get a little overwhelmed on media days. And it's not because like I don't, it's not because I don't know what to ask. It's because I have too much to ask and not enough time to ask it. And then it's like prioritizing and then it's 45 minutes ends before you know it. And you're probably in the middle of talking to somebody as it's happening and then you look at your list and there's like 18 people on there you wanted to talk to that you never got to. So I would very much appreciate our people telling us what they want us to do there because that would make my life a lot easier.
- [27:57]
Doug Les Maurice
Yeah, we will definitely ask.
- [28:01]
Bill Landis
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- [29:04]
Doug Les Maurice
I thought one of the other defensive things that came up that was interesting. I think Austin ward asked Kaden McDonald about this and Kaden McDonald, just a fine fella, just A fine fella. About Mark Fletcher, the Miami running back who once upon a time was committed to Ohio State. I think we know who we're talking to. During the Miami interview session, I think he had 174 rushing yards against Texas A and M. Again, everybody watching that game was like, why don't they give the ball to Mark Fletcher more? And that idea. And Kaden McDonald was sort of like, well, you know, he's a great player, but also like, I don't think you can block me. So that idea, that's quite, you know, it's not like it's just defensive tackles against running backs. But I'm curious. I'll sign up for Kaden McDonald versus Mark Fletcher. Yes.
- [29:47]
Bill Landis
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The guy, the defensive tackle who makes. Who has 60 tackles this season. And this is like a one man wrecking crew against a running back who I thought was really impressive. I should have got the ball more against, against A M. I think I said it on Saturday night. If he did, I think Miami might win that game more comfortably than it ended up winning it. But yeah, he's a good player. That'll be a, a fun matchup. It is nice. Well, I don't know if it's nice, but it helps anyway that these Miami guys who were once like either Ohio State commits or Ohio State liens, like, play pretty important roles. Mark Fletcher in the backfield, Justin Scott on the defensive line, Marquis Lightfoot is like a passing down guy for them is pretty important. So it's not like, you know, there have been times when Ohio State has played like SEC teams and you can go talk to like a bunch of freshmen on the other team that Ohio State was once upon a time recruiting. But it's like they're not really playing. They're not part of the game. So it's like you can talk to them, but, like, what's the point? This, like these guys, like actually matter. These guys play huge roles for Miami. So just another layer to it. There's a lot, there's a lot of fun connections between these two teams. I'm excited to get down there and mix it up on media day to see what, what the tone is.
- [30:53]
Doug Les Maurice
Yeah. So we, if you guys missed it, we did an offense version of this show that went up on Monday after talking to Ryan Day and Julian Saiyan and Jeremiah Smith and Max Claire and Carson Hinsman. Those people went on Monday afternoon. The defensive people went Monday evening. Miami. Miami head coach Mario Cristobal spoke on Monday. Both their coordinators spoke on Monday too. Is that correct?
- [31:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [31:18]
Doug Les Maurice
And then players tomorrow, all Miami players will speak on Tuesday. So we'll bring you a little bit of, like, what, you know, what Miami folks are saying here. Was there anything else that hit your ear from any of the Ohio State players or Matt Patricia, that what you thought was a particular interest that we haven't yet discussed?
- [31:36]
Bill Landis
I'm. We don't have to get too in the weeds on it because it's gonna be a big part of the big game breakdown. But I. I enjoyed kind of hearing Lorenzo Styles Jr. Talk about Malachi Tony, because I just don't think he just like, obviously he's very excited for it. He said he's excited for the matchup in the slot, and he said he's a different skill set than a lot of the guys they play this year. Which, like, I was trying to think, like, when's the. I'm not trying to whatever, bring back bad memories, but, like, when I was trying to rack my brain for the guys like this at Ohio State has played my mind, like, kind of went the Wrongdale Moore right away. So I. And he's a freshman, so I think that's a. That's obviously a key spot for Ohio to focus on defensively, and they know that, of course. But Lorenzo Styles is going to be in the mix there, and he seemed like he was pretty fired up for the opportunity. Yeah, Yeah.
- [32:27]
Doug Les Maurice
I do think someone said Carson Beck was tall, which I think is probably factually correct. The. The Miami quarterback. I think of that as a statement of fact. Kenyatta Jackson, another Miami kid, you know, like, interesting to see him headed back to Miami. Someone said your uncle played for Miami. And he was like, yeah, that's correct. I expect that that will come up at Christmas. So I don't know that I was aware of that. That's interesting. But he said his whole family. His whole family were Miami Hurricane fans.
- [32:57]
Bill Landis
So what did you think of the. The. The conversation about him getting held so much against Indiana? Yeah, his answer. His answer was like, well, I gotta make it so they can't hold me. Which is like, I have to beat them worse than I already beat them.
- [33:08]
Doug Les Maurice
And I guess, like, he said that Sonny Styles said to him, like, you're too good for them to, like to let them hold you. That if they're gonna try to hold you, the answer is don't get held. So I don't know, like, I like. Does that. Are you doing, like, rip moves instead of, like, to try to get past the tackle? You're trying to, like, Rip. Rip through, like, the jersey hold to, like, I don't know. And then, you know, again, like, Matt Patricia, I think, was kind of asked about it, and it's just Matt Patricia was sort of saying, there's 70 plays in a game, there's going to be some that don't go your way, like, don't worry about it and, and do the next thing. But Kenyatta Jackson did say he was frustrated by maybe what he felt like were the lack of calls in the, in the Indiana game and that he did maybe try to mention it to the officials a couple time. You know, holding is not a, a new idea in any level of football. It certainly happens. But I, I think one of our main storylines with Kenyatta Jackson this year was Kenyatta Jackson in the middle of the year going to Matt Patricia and saying, like, I know that you want me to, to help cage the quarterback and not let him out of the pocket, not to over rush and create running lanes for him, but, like, is it okay if I kind of try to get him a little bit more? Matt Patricia said, like, as long as you don't, like, rush past him, we're good. And then Kenyatta Jackson was like, oh, okay. And then he started getting after the quarterback more because he was so intent on doing his job that then when he was sort of like, just given verbal permission to do something, this used to happen with. And this is a tip for you, Bill, and this is parenting tip with my, my older daughter, when she was young and in the car, sometimes she'd be sleepy, but she wouldn't be falling asleep in the car. But if you said to her, you're allowed to fall asleep, she'd fall asleep in five seconds. She was waiting for permission to fall asleep. So my point with this is, like, if Sonny Stiles said to Kenyatta Jackson, you're too good to let them hold you, and then the answer to getting held, if Kenyatta Jackson thinks to himself, oh, the answer to getting held is don't allow myself to be held, that problem might be solved. Because sometimes if you just help Kenyatta Jackson, if you verbalize it to him, he then solves the problem. So maybe no more holding call. Like, no more uncalled holding calls for Kenyatta Jackson this game.
- [35:26]
Bill Landis
Yeah, maybe he will. I'll be interested to see how he can step out of some of the tackles that Indiana was getting away with. Because there's holding and then there's. I think it was bear. There's bear hugs, right? Hey, like, some, some of those plays were bear Hugs. So a little harder to get out of. Yeah. Yeah.
- [35:41]
Doug Les Maurice
So I mean that's. But again, you know, that, that and like Sunny Sonny Styles said, we feel like we lost the game to Indiana because their defense beat our defense. Because our defense as Ohio state gave up 13 and their defenses, Indiana gave up 10. You know, which is an interesting way to think about this. And it's like I don't even what players actually think matters. Lorenzo Styles was the one who kind of went down the path of like maybe losing was like kind of now we had adversity. And again like that's just like my least favorite kind of conversation. Like actually losing is good, which is why that we do everything within our fiber of our being every moment of every day to eliminate losing. But then actually when it happens, it's good. But if the players, if they are a little, you know, somebody in the substack check chat asked like what, what the vibe was from today because we hadn't talked to him in a while. When they lost to Michigan last year, like they were insulted, they were wounded. They thought people were, were asking whether a coach should be fired. It was, it was forced straight their rival. Like that hit at their soul, right? That, that hit at the, the fabric of the program that questioned everything about being a Buckeye. Are you guys good enough? Are you tough enough? Can you, can you handle this? Why do you keep running into this same wall? What's wrong with you? And that's just not what this is. So I said like nobody was spitting fire on Monday. Like that's, that's just not where they are. But they are saying Ryan Day is even the one who said it. You know, when we talked to the offensive side of the ball, said like we feel like we should have won that game. They feel like they should have beaten Indiana and they feel like it is within their control to make sure something like that doesn't happen again. So I do not think it is all that comparable to the Michigan loss. Even though I guess maybe like right after the game, right. Caleb Downs might have said like it's the exact same thing. Like we lost our last game going into the playoff. But like I said, like, I don't think it is. It's not quite. It's not the same blow to your self worth, but it's a loss you're mad about. And I think you got some of that, that like, hey, you know, like we, we screwed this up and we don't want to screw it up again, right? Was that. What was your sense of like, how ticked off they are.
- [38:00]
Bill Landis
I mean, they're, they're pretty ticked off, but it's because they're, you know, competitive guys and they were at a chance to not only repeat as national champions, but do so undefeated. And they give out a nice shiny trophy after they pay 10 title games like they, they wanted that. They're mad that they didn't put their best foot forward. But like, the, the. You said it like the post Michigan loss last year was like a reckoning. Like, like, yes, it was like, come, come, come to Jesus kind of moment. Then I just, I just don't know that that that's what this is. I guess on some level it's, it's, it's a reckoning. Like, you are a team that's very good that has to reconcile a little bit with some areas where you, you were perhaps not quite as good as you thought you were, but I don't think are sort of like, outright bad and, or need to be rethought entirely as you go into the postseason. But so, like, I, I agree with some of what Lorenzo Styles said. I think you always hope, like, as a fan of a team is like, well, you shouldn't have to lose to understand that about yourself, but maybe sometimes you have to. And perhaps that's, that is a position that Ohio State is in. But aside from the fact that they were both losses heading into the playoff, I think there's really nothing at all similar between the Michigan losses and the Indiana losses. But it also only matters how the players use it, I guess. So if, you know, if some guys, if some guys want to treat it as such, to get them where they need to be, great if, if, if they don't, great. Whatever, whatever gets you to play your best against Miami truly is. Is all that matters. And it's like, up to us, I guess, to kind of talk about it the right way. So, like, I understand why guys are getting questions about comparing one loss to the other, but I think, I think you and I are in agreement. They're like, it's not, it's not really the same thing.
- [39:41]
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- [40:09]
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- [40:43]
Doug Les Maurice
Okay, a couple housekeeping items we will be writing on our substack page. Billanddougosu.substack.com we'll have a Jeremiah Smith story up there on Tuesday. We'll have some other breakdowns there. We've run through all 10 position groups, both here on the YouTube and podcast feeds on video and audio and writing companion pieces on Substack. Those are done, but we will continue to have written pieces there up until we get to Texas on December 28th for Cotton bowl coverage. We will have a Substack show for our Substack subscribers. It's going to be a Q A show and we're going to talk about the best Ohio State Christmas presents that you ever gave or received. That will be only for Substack subscribers on our substack. If you think that sounds interesting, you can come join us over there. Bill and Doug osu.subsack.com here on this YouTube and podcast feed. I think we are going to do at least two sort of like bigger picture playoff things. I think we're going to draft the eight quarterbacks remaining in the playoff and the eight defenses remaining in the playoff, both as an exercise to where Ohio to see where Ohio State slots in, but also to give you kind of an overview of the eight remaining teams in the playoff. And I think we will drop those in. This is coming to you, this show, on December 23, 24, 25, 26, 27. I would expect those two shows to drop in there sometime in those four days. And then I think Bill, probably we're flying on the 28th to Dallas. We're going to have interviews with two players from Miami and two players from Ohio State upon arrival when they get there in Dallas. I think we'll probably do some kind of show the night of the 28th to be like, we're here. What's the vibes? What's going on? I like. So you expect that probably evening night time on the 28th?
- [42:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so because the Other thing about the, the arrivals is like, I think we're scheduled to talk with James Peoples and Riley Pettigon, two Texas guys.
- [42:45]
Doug Les Maurice
Peyton Pierce, I think, I think Peyton Pierce.
- [42:48]
Bill Landis
Oh, Peyton Pierce. Sorry, I got excited. Yeah, not really. No, no, no. Shade to Peyton Pierce, very important player. But two, two Texans, which is fine, but you also like kind of get to hang out in the team hotel for a little bit as they're arriving. So there's like kind of some color together with that too. So, yeah, we'll do well. And I think it'll be late. That'll be. I think it's like 8:45 central time. They're getting in. So, yeah, that'll be a later post for us, but we'll have something off of that that night. Yeah, yeah.
- [43:18]
Doug Les Maurice
And then the media day of the 29th and we just, we don't even know what we're gonna do. So, like, we're gonna be writing, we're gonna be potting, we're gonna be youtubing coaches news conference on December 30th with Mario Crystal Ball and Ryan Dan and the game on the 31st. And we'll do a post game show live here on YouTube pretty much as soon as that thing ends on the 31st. Like, again, we've been trying to balance going right away with being able to go to the locker room and report and talk to people. So we'll let you guys know more about that. But, but this is where we are now. We're not going to talk to anybody else from Ohio State in a formal interview session between now and getting to Texas on the 28th. There will be some Miami people talking on Zoom that we can get on on Tuesday, December 23rd. If somebody for Miami says, you know, something inflammatory about Ohio State, we might jump on the mic and have a discussion about that.
- [44:09]
Bill Landis
Sure.
- [44:09]
Doug Les Maurice
But otherwise, we will talk to you with some of these drafts. We'll certainly hope to, to talk with you guys and see you live from Dallas, Texas, and just have the merriest of Christmases if we, if we don't interact with you between now and the holiday. We hope you guys have a great time with family and friends. And football is a big part of that. So again, we're just grateful to be able to hang out with you guys and talk a little ball and, and sometimes talk little feelings, but sometimes be tired of talking feelings and want to talk. Oh. Anything else, Landis?
- [44:46]
Bill Landis
No, I just apologize. I'm in the basement of my father's home and my son is upstairs rolling a fire truck across the floor. So it's loud for me, but I don't know if you guys can hear it on the mic, but if you cannot hear no.
- [44:57]
Doug Les Maurice
Which is a fire truck friendly show also. So like whatever your son wants to do, we're good with. All right, thanks again to you guys for watching and listening. For now, he's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lee Maurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [45:15]
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