The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Defensive Line Grades & Breakouts

Episode Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis
Podcast Network: Blue Wire

Episode Overview

This episode of The Bill and Doug Show dives deep into the 2025 Ohio State Buckeyes defensive line: evaluating its performance, individual player breakouts—especially Kaden McDonald and Caden Curry—and discussing whether the team needs to look for more defensive line help in the transfer portal. Doug and Bill provide high-level analytics, historical context, inside stories, and plenty of big-picture perspective about a unit that has driven Ohio State's championship defense. They also reflect on depth issues, project next year’s D-line, and hand out position group grades.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defensive Line Historical Context & Pressures

• Pressure Leaders Since 2019 (01:21–03:05)
  • Chase Young: 51 pressures before the playoffs in 2019.
  • Kaden Curry (2025): 45 pressures — "a gigantic jump in production."
  • Jack Sawyer (2024): Noted for a postseason surge; 42 pre-playoff, 64 by season's end.
  • Kenyatta Jackson (2025): 39 pressures pre-playoff.
  • This places Curry and Jackson among the most productive Ohio State edges of the playoff era.

"Chase in 19, Curry this year, Jack last year, Kenyatta this year [are] the top four." – Bill (02:00)

2. Kaden Curry’s Breakout & Perspective on Staying

• Transformation Story (04:01–05:21)
  • Curry had just 27 pressures in his previous three years combined; exploded for 45 in 2025.
  • His decision to stay, develop, and trust OSU’s process—rather than transfer—serves as a recruiting model.

"I needed to stay here to develop, to become sort of like the maximum version of myself." – Doug (04:41)

3. Comparing Curry to OSU Legends & True Value

• Statistical & Physical Context (06:00–07:28)
  • Curry’s pass rush win rate is strong (14.7%) but below Bosa/Young levels; still, he’s impactful and well-rounded.
  • Hosts urge not to hold the Bosa brothers/Chase Young as the standard for every OSU rusher.

"Is this a true statement? Kaden Curry is an excellent pass rusher. True or false?"
"True." – Doug and Bill (07:28)

4. Kenyatta Jackson & Edge Depth

• Jackson’s Role & Future (08:58–10:02)
  • "Playing his best football," especially late in the season (6.5 sacks, 11 TFLs).
  • Faces a decision on whether to stay or go pro; performance warrants consideration.

"He’s been really good … I think he has a tough decision coming up." – Bill (09:25)

• Behind the Starters: Atkinson, Grady, and Depth Concerns (10:20–11:29)
  • Bo Atkinson: Adequate but not impactful—“good stats, bad team” transfer.
  • Depth behind Curry/Jackson is minimal; Zion Grady (a true freshman) is next in line.
  • Situational options like Arvell Reese on the edge discussed, but neither host confident in untested backups during the playoff.

5. Snap Counts: Starters Carrying the Load

• Numbers Tell the Story (14:13–15:06)
  • Curry and Jackson almost never leave the field.
  • Edge rotation is “basically none”; expect the starters to play every meaningful playoff snap.

"Who's the edge depth in the playoff? It's like, there is none. The two starters play every single snap." – Doug (14:51)

6. Kaden McDonald: Interior Dominance

• Elite Tackle Play (15:36–17:50)
  • First-team All-American and Big Ten Defensive Lineman of the Year.
  • 57 tackles—second-most among Power 4 DTs. Combines stoutness and penetration.

"He looks like maybe the best defensive tackle in the country … If he were 6'4", I think people would talk about him that way." – Bill (16:48)

7. Defensive Tackle Rotation

• The Rotation & Production (17:51–20:39)
  • Edric Houston and Tywone Malone share the other DT spot; Will Smith sparsely used.
  • McDonald rarely comes off the field; depth is thin, but play level stays high.

8. Young Contributors & Arvell Reese’s Hybrid Role

• Reese’s Edge/Linebacker Usage (21:33–23:37)
  • Used more as a spy in recent weeks; pressures/sacks have tapered.
  • Hosts flag his utilization as a question for DC Matt Patricia.
  • Emphasize the philosophical shift—production matters more than pressures alone.

9. Defensive Line Transition & Need for Transfers

• Looking to 2026 & Transfer Portal (25:54–32:00)
  • Expect major roster turnover: Curry out of eligibility, McDonald almost certainly NFL-bound, Jackson likely declaring.
  • Youth (Zion Grady, Edric Houston, Will Smith) looks promising, but not enough experience or bodies.
  • Portal additions will be needed, especially at edge.

"They're gonna have to probably remake the edge position entirely and lose their best defensive tackle." – Bill (28:04)

10. Depth Philosophy & Grade Assignment

• Depth Philosophy (31:49–32:07)
  • Six-man rotations once a goal; now, necessity has forced a shorter bench—starters just play more.
• Grades for 2025 Defensive Line (32:09–36:00)
  • Bill: 91/100 ("They have two All-Americans.")
  • Doug: 86/100 (after revising up; "Comparisons to Bosa, Young, and Downs aren't fair.")
  • Subscribers’ average: 88/100

"It's not super deep, but also sometimes when it's like…who cares? They're really good." – Doug (35:33)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Curry’s Breakout
  "He had 27 pressures in his first three years and he has 45 this year. He's doubled his production." – Bill (04:01)
• On Defensive Tackle Tackling
  "That's why their linebackers don't have 150 tackles. And that's why Caleb Downs—for instance—had over 100 tackles at Alabama and fewer [here]." – Bill (16:14)
• On Depth
  "If you're at all considering taking Kenyatta or Kaden off the field, then Zion Grady should be the next guy in...But I don't think it's C.J. Hicks. I'm not gonna be the guy who says get ready for the guy who hasn't played all year." – Bill (11:29)
• On Defensive Line Reputation
  "We clearly had a three-year stretch where the number one conversation around the OSU defensive line was: 'They get pressures but not production.' We are out of that." – Doug (23:43)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:21–03:05: Pressure stats since 2019; Curry/Jackson historical placement
• 04:01–05:21: Kaden Curry’s developmental story
• 08:58–10:02: Kenyatta Jackson’s growth and NFL decision
• 10:20–11:29: Depth discussion; edge rotations and limitations
• 14:13–15:06: Snap counts—starters barely leaving the field
• 15:36–17:50: Kaden McDonald’s All-American campaign, tackling stats
• 21:33–23:37: Arvell Reese’s reduced pass rush role and host strategy questions
• 25:54–32:00: Projecting 2026 D-line, need to hit the portal
• 32:09–36:00: Final grades and summary discussion on depth vs. star power

Episode Tone & Style

Doug and Bill maintain their trademark conversational style, blending sharp football analytics with playful, relatable banter. Their approach is informed, irreverent, and fan-centric, always looping back to big picture program health and how the nuts and bolts of the defensive line impact championship aspirations.

Summary Takeaways

• The 2025 defensive line is among OSU’s very best of the playoff era, led by massive senior breakouts (Curry, Jackson, McDonald).
• Depth is a legitimate concern—most snaps go to the stars, with little behind them.
• The hosts expect major departures (Curry, McDonald, possibly Jackson), making the transfer portal critical.
• The line earns high grades (86–91) for production and impact, with the only real knock being limited depth.
• The hosts emphasize the importance of contextualizing current stars outside the shadows of Bosa/Young, and highlight the benefit of player retention and development in the current NCAA landscape.