← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State football Around the Shoe: Flipping the Michigan rivalry, Big Ten Championship vs. Indiana
00:56:54
Did Ohio State flip the rivalry with a win over Michigan on Saturday? What did the Buckeyes do in that win over the Wolverines that will carry over the most the rest of the season?
Loading summary
Transcript124 lines
- [00:02]
Modelo Advertiser
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lay some up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [00:55]
Walmart Advertiser
The who's down and who Newville were making their list but some didn't know Walmart has the best brands for their gifts.
- [01:02]
Doug Lesmerises
What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year? Yup.
- [01:06]
Walmart Advertiser
Barbie, Tonys and Lego. Gifts that will make them all cheer.
- [01:09]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you mean they have all the brands I adore?
- [01:12]
Walmart Advertiser
They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple and more. What about so the who answered questions from friends till they were blue. Each one listened and shouted from Walmart. Who knew sharp gifts from top brands for everyone on your list in the Walmart app.
- [01:32]
Doug Lesmerises
Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis joined each and every week by two fantastic members of this robust Ohio State football beat. Bill, we got two good ones this week, don't we? Fired up.
- [01:46]
Bill Landis
Just more, more young guys showing up making us look old. Yeah, but no, good guess. Yeah, good guess.
- [01:51]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. No, and it's good. And these guys, Sam Cipriani and Greg Wilson from Buckeye Sports Bulletin. They were up until 8am Monday morning putting out the Buckeye Sports Bulletin Ohio State Michigan newspaper. Sam, what, what time did you guys actually get to bed?
- [02:07]
Sam Cipriani
I probably got to bed at around 4am but I live a lot closer than Greg. So late night, late night.
- [02:16]
Doug Lesmerises
Have you and your head hit the pillow?
- [02:18]
Greg Wilson
What time Greg I got to bed? Probably around 4:30 or so. Yeah.
- [02:22]
Doug Lesmerises
Look at you guys. I got, I got, I rocked like a solid 12 last night because you know like when you're my age I was calling to bed at like 8:30. So Sam Cipriani, how long have you been covering or have been around Ohio State football?
- [02:37]
Sam Cipriani
So I mean I've been around Ohio State football all my life. I mean I grew up in Columbus but I've only been covering the team for this is my second year now. I covered last year as an editor for the Ohio State student newspaper, the Lantern. And then this is my first. You're covering professionally. And now I'm with Buckeye Sports Bulletin.
- [02:55]
Doug Lesmerises
All right. And Greg, how long you been around covering the team?
- [02:58]
Greg Wilson
Yeah, this is my third year covering the team now. All, all of them with Buckeye Sports Bulletin. My first, my first day was actually the Sunday after the Indiana game in 2023, the season opener. So I got right into it.
- [03:11]
Doug Lesmerises
Nice, nice. And you guys are. You guys are young and it just. The journalism is flourishing. Sports writing jobs are just available and plentiful and paying big money all over the country. Like, you guys are rocking it, right? You're just flush.
- [03:25]
Greg Wilson
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, just money everywhere. I'm actually going to lay back down on my bed of money back there, you know, right after. Right after we're done with this episode.
- [03:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, that's why you stayed up till 5 o' clock in the morning because you're. You're so flush with cash. Well, gentlemen, thank you for being here. We have five topics about Ohio State football that we want to discuss. We will both look back at Ohio State's win over Michigan and look forward to the Big Ten championship game between the Buckeyes and Indiana on Saturday in Indianapolis. Sam, we will start with you. When we look at this 27. 9 Ohio State win over Michigan on Saturday. What, what was the best sign for the Buckeyes from that game that you think could be applied to the rest of the season? Right. There's always like some very specific rivalry stuff, but was there anything that really stood out to you? Be like, oh, that's, that's good for the Buckeyes and they could take that into Indiana and into the playoff.
- [04:23]
Sam Cipriani
Well, I think there was a lot too good to come from Ohio State's win over Michigan. I think the biggest thing for me was that it finally gave Ohio State a measuring stick. We hadn't really seen Ohio State be tested since week one, and I think where it gave them the biggest test was challenging their run game. We finally got to see the true potential of Bo Jackson. I feel we had seen flashes all year, but it was kind of hard for me to tell whether he was truly dominating or it was more so from a lack of challenge from Ohio State's opponents. They had been, you know, playing a lot of inferior opponents. He had rushed for 100 yards about five times this season, but those games were against UCLA, Rutgers, Grambling, Ohio, and then Penn State, which is probably the most impress. But that's not really the test that a Michigan or Texas is going to provide. And we didn't get to see Bo Jackson against Texas. And what I saw from Michigan is that Bo Jackson's a hard runner, he's fast, he's strong, he can break tackles, you know, against the best talent in the country. And he also showed that he can be a workhorse, something that I hadn't really, I wasn't really sure about previously. He had, you know, a season high and career high, 22 carries, 117 yards on the ground, 5.3 yards per carry. You know, the combination of him and Isaiah west, you know, gave me a lot of confidence that the run game is going to be able to hold up its end of the bargain. You know, as well as the past game in Ohio State offense, fourth in.
- [06:05]
Doug Lesmerises
The Big Ten in Russia. Now, man, Landis, you were talking about that for weeks that, like, okay, they were, they played three terrible run defenses going into Michigan. And even while it felt like the run game was like rounding into four, you maybe didn't really know. Right. And so what Sam's saying is like, to show that against Michigan is different than showing it against Purdue, UCLA and Rutgers.
- [06:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's way more meaningful. The, the. It was not that merely that Ohio State played bad defenses. They quite literally played three of the worst run defenses in the country. So it's like, listen, like, if that's the case, run the ball well. And they did. But it was still difficult for me to, you know, wrap my arms around the idea that they had gotten their run game figured out until they played a better defense and then. And they still ran it well. So I'm, I'm with Sam. I thought that was a huge development.
- [06:50]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, Greg, what popped for you that the Buckeyes can carry forward?
- [06:54]
Greg Wilson
Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna cheat a little bit and go two things, but it's only sort of cheating because one of them is sort of an off field thing. But number one, I was gonna also go with the run game. Just Bo Jackson. I mean, you know, he's looked different than the other guys the entire season, I think, but it's just, you know, he was cutting hard, he was running physical. He more so than I've seen any Ohio State running back do this season. I guess there were holes getting opened up by the offensive line. He was hitting them. And the other thing was he's making guys miss. You know, that's one thing we haven't been. We haven't really seen, I guess, the rest of the year. Yeah, you don't really need to go any further than, you know, it was, it was their second drive after the intersect. Their, their first drive after the interception when he looked like he was going to lose five yards on, on that run and just kind of hesitation that made three guys miss. And you know, if I'm going to talk about that play, I also got to give credit to Carnell Tate for just a great block on the outside there that he held for a long time. But you know, I, I guess on, on that, I, I think you also, you don't have to go further than that drive. The lasted third and fourth quarter, 20 plays, 16 runs, ended up in a field goal. But I, I, the run game, like you guys were saying, it was good against Purdue, ucla, Rutgers, but you had to see it against someone better than that. But I guess the second thing that I was going to say, that's great sign for Ohio State. It, it was a video posted by, I think it was Nicole Shearer on Twitter before the game. It was Ryan Day coming out of the tunnel, Michigan fans heckling him. He was getting booed. And you just see him smirk. And that's just the attitude that Ryan Day has. I think that national championship really just, he didn't need anything more than that. I guess it just, there's nothing blocking him from, from being like just great mentally at this point and getting his players to buy into whatever he tells them. So this guy feels nothing but confidence right now. He doesn't feel nerves, he doesn't feel doubt. And I guess, how can you blame him? He's got a Heisman Trophy, possibly winning quarterback back there and maybe the greatest defense in college football history. By the end of the season, we could be saying, we'll see.
- [08:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh, yeah, no, that got hot there right at the end. The greatest defense in college football history. You know, I mean, you know, the dogs might have something to say about that. Like, you know what we're talking about. But that's like, but that's the level we're talking about here. I'm not wearing a Georgia hat anymore today. That also, that's a good way of like start worth a smirk, end with humility. But I'm very pro smirk, Sam. Like I, the smirk matters, does it not? Greg's on to something here.
- [09:21]
Sam Cipriani
I mean, I think it just shows that he finally has that confidence. I mean, I think we've heard this phrase about a hundred times this week that Ryan Day finally got the monkey off his back and you know, that weight lifted off his shoulders. I'm sure he, he and not only him, his family, the entire Ohio State organization and program, you know, feels that weight lifted off their shoulders after beating Michigan for the first time and over 2000 days. It was 2000 over 2, 100 days since Ohio State's last victory over Michigan before Saturday.
- [09:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I'm not good at math, but that's like what, 14 years? I don't know what 2100 days is, but. You pro smirk, Landis. You pro smirk.
- [10:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah, the only thing I'm mad about is I didn't see that video until after the game because if I saw it before the game, I would have put a mortgage payment on Ohio State to cover or whatever. It ended up closing. And I might have even searched out some alt lines after seeing seeing that smirk. But no, I think and, and like we, we thought Ryan Day was looser and kind of like presenting differently in, in the week before the game. And, and I didn't really think it was performative, but you know, I wondered if you might be able to carry that through until Saturday. And it seemed like it seemed like he did and obviously put him in a position to manage that game much better than he has the last four years or four years prior. My just in the name of saying something different because I'm sort of along the same lines as, as these guys, I. When it comes to the run game, I may focus specifically more on the offensive line, but just for the sake of going someplace else, I thought it was noteworthy that the defense did encounter a little bit of, of adversity, right? Like, like Michigan sprung a couple of explosive runs early in the game just in a way that we had not seen before. Ohio State had allowed four 20 yard runs all year and Michigan had three on its first three possessions, including the first play of the game for 36 yards, which was the longest run of the year that Ohio State has allowed. So and I thought like I asked Ryan Day about that on this conference call on Sunday and sort of about like, like how Matt Patricia is making adjustments, but within that, he said like when you encounter things like that within a game, it can be very easy for players to over correct and then suddenly you're putting yourself in a bad situation and you spiral and big plays just sort of snowball, right? And kind of build on top of each other. And for that to not happen and for the defense to kind of just like regroup and really by the time, probably the fourth time Michigan had the ball, it really did seem like Ohio State's defense more or less had the game handled. So they're definitely going to see better offenses moving forward, including this, this weekend against Indiana. I don't want to make Michigan's offense out to be. To be more than it is, but to get challenged a little bit, I think, defensively in that game with those stakes in that environment, and to respond the way that the defense did, I thought was a pretty good sign.
- [12:18]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, because they're right. I mean, Indiana's gonna do some stuff against him. And then, you know, if they would face Oregon in the playoff or if they would face Notre Dame in the playoff or Ole Miss, you know, like, there. There are some teams that are going to do some things offensively that, like, again, they have not been incredibly tested during the course of this season. So they're, They're. They might get in a position where they have to. They have to figure something out that it's not perfect the whole way through. So. Like that.
- [12:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that's good.
- [12:48]
Doug Lesmerises
So, Sam and Greg, this is something that Bill and I had talked about kind of going into the Michigan game. The idea that Will Howard last year was. Was good. He was. He was pretty good. And then he became a playoff monster. And we were sort of like just the reminder of, like, hey, you have this picture in your head of Will Howard slicing and dicing people and just like, leading Ohio State. But like, you know, for the Mission game, for instance, like, you know, when he threw that early pick, it's like, well, he had thrown that early pick against Penn State. And so statistically, I just. It was. And then he went nuts. Julian saying, playoff monster. Is it now on the table? Like, when we think about that, he. So he's efficient. He is. Makes the right play. You know, if he does things wrong, it's. Maybe he doesn't take a shot that's there. But like, he, he almost always does the right thing, right? And to throw a pick and then come back from that and continue to be efficient, but take the shot on fourth down to Jeremiah Smith. Take the kill shot to Carnell Tate down the middle of the field when it was there. Like, I'm super curious if we. If Ohio State gets the same kind of leap from Julian saying From the first 12 games into everything else that they got from Will Howard last year. Sam, like, holy moly. That's next level. And I'm, you know, I, I do, like, sometimes. Sometimes I like quarterback mistakes too much. I like picks. You know, this, like, you shouldn't be trying to play perfect. You should be willing to make some throws. And so he got tricked. Whatever. But that's now in my head a little bit, Sam, of if there's another level from Julian saying that began with I made a mistake and I bounced back. Oh, mama, I think that could be something, right?
- [14:34]
Sam Cipriani
Yeah. I mean, I think it really shows his resilience as a player. And like you said, sometimes picks, you know, turnovers can be important for a young quarterback. I believe after the game, Ryan Day said he came right off to the sideline, talked to him, said it was a simple miscommunication where Julian saying thought it was cover one, but it was actually cover two and the cornerback sunk under and intercepted the pass. And you know, Ryan Day said that Julian saying sat right down back onto the bench, didn't pout, didn't do anything like that and bounced back. And you know, we saw it throughout the rest of the game. He was poised in the pocket. You know, it didn't seem like the pressure was too much. And even in an away stadium, you know, I saw him running down the field. I'm not sure if you guys have seen the image of Julian saying, shushing the crowd as he runs down the field after a touchdown. You know, he seemed confident. And you know, if you're seeing that against your rival, you know that's only going to continue to build when you know, not necessarily that the magnitude is going to be less going forward because the games are going to matter more, but it's a lot less pressure playing when you're not playing against the rival and you don't have, you know, a four game losing streak riding on your back.
- [15:57]
Bill Landis
He will not feel more pressure the rest of the year. They could be playing a national title game while playing a more pressurized game.
- [16:08]
Walmart Advertiser
And Doug, here we have the Limu.
- [16:11]
Doug Lesmerises
Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.
- [16:23]
Walmart Advertiser
Uh, Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.
- [16:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty Savings Fairy Underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Excludes Massachusetts.
- [16:36]
Walmart Advertiser
Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck. And the who's in Whoville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, walmart's the place to start. And D2 added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry they cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.
- [17:09]
Doug Lesmerises
Craig, I didn't know he was a shusher. I didn't know Julian saying shusher had, had, had been unleashed. That's next step like that to on the way to being a monster. You got to be a shusher first. So again, we don't want to, I don't think we want to underestimate the smirk, Greg. We don't want to underestimate the shush, right?
- [17:28]
Greg Wilson
No, yeah, you can't underestimate the shush. Definitely not. There's no underestimating that at all. I mean, listen there. The, the guy is like everyone has been saying the whole year, poised. But what I go back to is just the Texas game in the post game press conference when Ryan Day came out and he was just so impressed with the way Julian was, was seeing coverages, the way he was, the way he was able to read the defense, I guess. And ever since then I've kind of been bought in on like he can do this, you know, he can lead this team in, in really any game. He can do it through a, in a Michigan game. He can do it, I guess through the playoffs. That's where for me at least I was like, I, I think this guy might be the real deal. You know, I'm not, not breaking any news here. The five star number one quarterback in the class is good, but I can break it.
- [18:20]
Doug Lesmerises
You can plant your flag on that. Everyone else is afraid to say it. Greg Wilson is not. Julian saying, good. Own it, man. All right, number two. Greg, we'll start with you. Has the pressure in the Ohio State Michigan rivalry now flipped and it is, is it? Will it be on Michigan in 2026? Is, is it? Yes. It's flipped? No. Or maybe somewhere in between there.
- [18:45]
Greg Wilson
I'm gonna say yes, but just in a different way. Just in a different way than it was on Ohio State. The pressure for Ryan Day was more so like, correct me if I'm wrong here, but I think they were favored in all four games that they lost.
- [19:02]
Doug Lesmerises
So Michigan was like a three point favorite one year, but Ohio State was always higher ranked. Always higher ranked.
- [19:09]
Greg Wilson
Okay.
- [19:09]
Sam Cipriani
I think they were a three point favorite in 2023.
- [19:13]
Greg Wilson
That would make sense. But, but I, I just feel like that's, that's where maybe it's a little different. It's like Ohio State is kind of expected to be this, you know, 10 wins a season at the very least. That's the minimum There, but where I say the pressure is kind of reversed a little bit. It's now they don't have that anymore. They don't have the streak. And they're still coming off an 85 record now. 9 and 3, not going into the playoffs for two years in a row. Ohio State is just at a completely different level as a program. And again, I know I'm not breaking any news there, but it's just. How does Michigan get to that point there? There are obviously ways. It's a Big Ten powerhouse, you know, in, in this new world. But they kind of have to turn that around and get to the point that Ohio State can be at, which feels kind of impossible at this point. It's just, I mean, I guess for any team where Ohio State is right now, but it's just, it's just different. Like, like I was saying, I guess the bragging rights, certainly they matter, but they kind of needed that win, that, that streak in order to have those bragging rights because they don't have the dominance right now.
- [20:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [20:17]
Doug Lesmerises
Landis, you think it's flipped or no?
- [20:20]
Bill Landis
I do think it's flipped. Yeah. I mean, I, I think in a lot of ways Ryan Day and Sharon Moore are kind of mirror images of each other, right? They, they each get a victory in their first game as the full time head coach. And I think with Ryan Day, right, you look back and say, well, well, how much of that was just residual from Urban, right. And Sherro Moore is only, only one loss into this. So maybe it'd be unfair to ask how much was residual from the Jim Harbaugh era. But, but I think it would be fair to say that, that some was right. And if we're going to have these conversations about Ryan Day's search for the right way to get himself in the best possible position to coach in this game and win it. I think you have to ask the same questions about Sharon Moore now, right. So I think Ryan Day has figured that out and then now Sharon Moore has taken a loss and he is sort of on the same journey now. It may be easier for him to find that answer because Ohio State's not cheating in the, in the midst of trying to figure that out. But I do think that is difficult for any coach in this rivalry. You have to figure out what exactly works for you. And I think for Michigan, as things are currently constructed, it's a little bit more of a challenge for Sharon Moore because he's also going to be at a talent disadvantage. They're going to have good Players. Bryce Underwood's not going anywhere. Andrew Marsh isn't going anywhere. They're going to have talent, but the, the depth of talent always favors Ohio State or for the most part always favors Ohio State. So that just kind of creates another hurdle for Sharon Moore Michigan to try to, try to get over now as they put everything they can into trying to win this game at Columbus next year.
- [21:49]
Doug Lesmerises
So I just see a headline. It's sometimes it's hard to read everything. I'll go back and read it. But the great Dave Briggs, Toledo Blade columnist, a fine fella. He had a headline very tall that.
- [22:02]
Bill Landis
Very tall, very tall.
- [22:04]
Doug Lesmerises
He had a headline that, that he said that he thinks Sharon Moore is now in the hot seat for next year at Michigan. And Sharon Moore eight and five in year one, nine and three this year. So they're 17 and eight in his first two seasons. And I certainly, that was not my impression because, Sam, like when I think about Sharon Moore, you know, quarterback issues last year, I think understandable. There was a crazy off season. They, they were kind of late in the portal. They suffered through that. But then the beat Ohio State and beat Alabama in a bowl game was like a pretty strong finish at the end of last year. And then you're in the playoff mix all of this year with a freshman quarterback who did not play well against Ohio State. But lots of quarterbacks don't play well against Ohio State. And so to maybe like be building into the future with the number one quarterback recruit in the country that you decided to play as a true freshman, that's not where my head went. But as we think about the pressure and the rivalry flipping, it's both about the programs, but as Bill noted, it's also about the head coaches. Sam, would you think that Sharon Moore could be on the hot seat next year?
- [23:05]
Sam Cipriani
Like you said, I was not under the impression that he's going to be under the hots on the hot seat after this season. Especially considering, like you said, you know, all of the, you know, the punishments that have come down this season on Michigan, they're going to be losing, you know, over 20 million, closer to $30 million in nil revenue, you know, in revenue towards the program from the, you know, allegations that have come down with the Connor Stallions and you know, the, the sign stealing scandal. So like you said, that combined with all the things with the quarterbacks last year, you can't really prepare for multiple of your quarterbacks going down, down through the year. And you know, I feel like they'll at least give Sharon, a chance to stick it out through the remainder of the Bryce Underwood era and, you know, give him a chance to build something for his freshman quarterback who still has a lot of room to grow, but can, you know, elevate the potential and is going to not only, you know, help them now, but allow them to bring in more talented recruits because of who's going to want to, you know, play with that guy.
- [24:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [24:18]
Doug Lesmerises
Anyone else think he might be on the hot seat going in next year? Greg or Bill? Anybody think? Yes.
- [24:25]
Bill Landis
Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I could see it. Okay. Because I also don't know think of how he was hired, right. Jim Harbaugh leaves like late and abruptly and there wasn't really an opportunity to kind of scour the, the planet for his successor. They just kind of went to the guy down the hall. So I think when the, when the search happens that way you could be a little more apt to make a change quicker than you would be otherwise. Okay.
- [24:54]
Greg Wilson
Yeah. I mean, I'm sort of in the same area right there. I think it's. And I always, when, when these conversations are happening, I, I look towards Indiana right now and it's just like Kurt Sinnetti. Signetti has set expect at an all time high level for every other coach across the country. It's just, he went to, I mean, Indiana, it's the losing his program of all time until he got there this year. They just crossed that threshold finally. But those expectations, maybe they're a little unfair and I think they are. But it might be realistic that, you know, teams are expecting that now. Programs are expecting that now. The other, the other thing for me is next year. How does Bryce Underwood actually develop? I mean, he's obviously got the talent. We've seen that from him. He's got a great arm. He's, he can run, he's a big guy. The Flashes have been there all year. It's just. What does he look like in year two? I, I think there's going to be a big part of that. You got to be able to help your guys.
- [25:47]
Doug Lesmerises
We got a little read on that. Like Nebraska this year after playing Dylan Raiola as a true freshman. And like, I think Dylan Raiola was better in year two, but I don't know if it was like a linear development that was like, okay, it's definitely pointing up. And now here we are and the rumor, Bill is wondering if Dylan Rayle is going to transfer. Right. So it's like that when you play a quarterback, I think there's a lack that can be gained if you're willing to take a couple lumps from playing a true freshman quarterback. But then you got to show in year two that it was worth it. Otherwise, people start asking questions. All right, my answer to this is, has the pressure flipped? I am just always curious about equilibrium in the rivalry, and there just has not been equilibrium in the rivalry since John Cooper took over. And I have some stats that I want to use in a later question, but like, that's what I wonder about, that they're both good. Ohio State's more talented, but Michigan's also good. And somebody wins two in a row, then somebody else wins, then somebody else wins again and somebody else would like. And that's, that's what it you. Once upon a time, it was that kind of the way it grew in the modern era of college football was because it was that more or less, not exactly even, but there was an equilibrium where, I don't know, there's pressure on everybody because they're your rival and you want to win and you're both good and sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. And so I am not rooting for anything, but I am super curious of, of does this rivalry have to have something where there's much more pressure on one side or could it be just like, yeah, you know, of course we want to win, but, you know, it's not that that every guy who loses is in danger of losing his job because it's part of a streak. So I, I think maybe it could get to that point. I'm not sure that it can, but I'm curious about it, Sam, which I know I already asked you about, Sharon. Sam, but like, just in general, do you think the pressure is flipped?
- [27:38]
Sam Cipriani
Well, I want to preface by saying I think no matter what, there is going to be pressure on both teams in the rivalry. You don't just win a game and get to sit on your butt for 365 days and wake up and, you know, go play the game the next year and hope you win. You have to, you know, continue the grind, continue to keep push. With, with that being said, I think that, you know, like you said, there hasn't been equilibrium in the rivalry since the Cooper era. And honestly, you could even argue that it hasn't been, you know, almost exactly equal since the 10 year war from 69 to 78. And, you know, with that, it's just been, you know, pockets of time where Ohio State's more talented, they're recruiting better, they're having the better coaches. I'm going throw it Back to the Meyer era where, you know, kind of where I grew up, they dominated Michigan every year, especially, you know, in the, you know, those early 2010s after the fickle year, you know, Ohio State was just getting much better recruits. That was, you know, a pocket of time where, you know, Michigan just didn't have the talent as OSU and, you know, they couldn't keep up with the Meyer teams. And then, you know, switching after Covid, then you had those Michigan teams that, you know, were super talented under Jim Harbaugh. Now, are we going to see, like you said in kind of your question, are we going to see that flip back to Ohio State under the Moore era? So there's always going to be pressure, but I think for Michigan right now, it's. It's really, really important to, you know, be able to get back on track before. Like, it happened in the early 2000 and early 2010. Sorry, it gets to be a snowball effect. Like, it. It's seeming to become a pattern of.
- [29:36]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, I'll be.
- [29:38]
Doug Lesmerises
I'll be very curious. It'll be. I think it'll be a fun conversation leading into the game next year and, like, certainly more fun for Ohio State fans. But I think, like, trying to figure out what the future of the rivalry is will be a good thing. We'll get a little faster here. We had to spend time on Ohio State.
- [29:51]
Bill Landis
Can I ask you a question before we move on to the next one?
- [29:53]
Doug Lesmerises
I'm on it. Yeah.
- [29:55]
Bill Landis
What your view on Sharon Moore relative to equilibrium is what, like, he's the guy that can get Michigan there. Are you still unsure of that?
- [30:03]
Doug Lesmerises
So I think, like, an equilibrium to me doesn't mean equal, but it maybe means, like, it's 65, 35. Like, it's similar to what, like, Alabama, Auburn was during the. The Saban era, when I think it was like, 12, seven or whatever, that, okay, clearly one program is better here, but the other team is good enough to not take things for granted, to not lose 10 in a row. And, like, can Sharon Moore be that? Do I think Sheromore is going to be as good as successful recruiting, developing, building a program as Ryan Day? Probably not. But can he be a worthy adversary? And I think he showed that right in 23 by being the head coach in that moment and finding. Finding a way to win. I think he showed that in 24 with the way they finished when that season could have completely gotten away from them, and instead they ended it with wins over Ohio State and Alabama. Like, that, to me, Showed something that there's a belief that he, you know, he can keep a team from falling off a cliff. So to be the adversary in the rivalry, not an equal, but a challenge, I think he can be that. Now the question is, would Michigan be satisfied with that? So, and then get, I mean, equilibrium to me does not mean five and five in the next decade, but does it mean seven and three, like could Surelymore win three of the next 10? I, at the moment I would say, yeah, I think he could. But then the question is, is that enough? Or would Michigan say, well, okay, actually we think we can go get, you know, a more established head coach that we think could be Ryan Day's equal. I would be curious about that.
- [31:31]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm a little wait and see. I think on him, he's okay, he's got the, he's got the two wins. I guess you want to give him the interim win against Ohio State, but like there's not much else on his resume, big win wise in two years to show that like he's got a little something to him. Yeah.
- [31:48]
Doug Lesmerises
And it's hard. I mean, it's like, you know, hey, got Bryce Underwood. It's like, well, did he, you know, I mean, like, you know, you get credit for it, but I mean like they won the Andrew Marsh recruitment, like again, they had a five star tackle who got hurt. So. And then just for the records, we understand he does not get credit officially for the Ohio State when it goes on Jim Harbaugh's record. But like he was on the sidelines, so. All right, we'll go a little faster. Landis, we'll start this one with you. If the Michigan game and the chase for a national championship are, are both 100 out of 100 for Ohio State, like they matter as much as they can matter. What is this Big Ten championship game out of a hundred? Not the Big Ten championship game in general this year. This opponent, this moment is a What out of 100? If Michigan and the Natty are 100 out of 100.
- [32:31]
Bill Landis
Like a 71 maybe. Like I, I think, I think still fairly high, right? Like not, not the end all be all but you know, they get, they give you a trophy for it, right? So it's like, you know, and it's a thing you put in your trophy lobby and it's a way for a team to be remembered. And I think, you know, in a. More generally you don't hold the Big Ten championship in as high esteem anymore. But I think since Ryan Day has a national title and he has the Michigan win. Adding a Big Ten trophy to this last 300 and whatever days of Ohio State football would be a little meaningful. And then also to do it in a one versus two game right in the Big Ten title game I think adds another layer to it as well. And the fact that they haven't done it in so long, I think, I think matters, right? So it's, it's a little higher for me than it would be generally given some of the parameters we're talking about.
- [33:27]
Modelo Advertiser
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action, looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited, recruited. So lace them up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer Sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [34:21]
Walmart Advertiser
Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in Whoville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart.
- [34:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay, so you're 71. That's where I was too. I, I was going to say 70 and I did. I felt like this is something that we heard from our substack subscribers and we'll just take a moment here, we'll do a little promo. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com that's our substack where you guys can subscribe and get two extra shows a week just for subscribers. You get all of our written content there. We engage with people, we take questions, we answer them on our shows. We have a lively game, chat and Bill, if you're watching this on Monday, if you're not a subscriber at all, just tell the people we have a little special running here on Cyber Monday on December 1st if they want to sign up.
- [35:30]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's Good. Through the end of the day Monday. So if you're not listening to this, on Monday, sorry, but 18 off an annual subscription right now through the end of the day on Monday for the next year. 18, not for Tate Martel, but because Ohio State beat Michigan by 18 points.
- [35:48]
Doug Lesmerises
Yes. So, and then if you miss this, but you can still sign up for a monthly subscription or a yearly subscription, it's 12 bucks a month. It's normally a hundred dollars a year. So we're grateful and we're just like, we got to do this because, like, we got to try to feed our families. So, like, we're, we're appreciative of all the things we get to do here. But on that sub stack I wrote on Sunday night, because I asked Kurt Signetti and Ryan Day about it on the conference call on Sunday because it felt like something that fans were saying, like, how much does this really matter? So Ryan Day, I thought, gave an interesting answer of like, he does question it in the playoff era and he wants to make sure that winning a conference championship fits into the playoff picture in a certain way. And like, this is not the time to go to, into all the details of if they go to 16, what would it mean? And like, now you, you know, you can still get a buy even though you lost the conference championship game and all this kind of stuff. But he did go there. But I kind of believed Signetti and Ryan Day for different reasons when they said that they are going to kind of go all out. They are. This is something they care about.
- [36:44]
Bill Landis
So.
- [36:44]
Doug Lesmerises
So I would say a 70 out of a hundred. Sam, what would you say?
- [36:48]
Sam Cipriani
I would honestly go closer to an 82 and 85 if, if Michigan and the Natty are 100. I honestly find it a little challenging to devalue a conference championship considering Ohio State has only three goals every single year and that's beat Michigan, win the Big Ten championship and win the national championship. They already got the one this year. They've done the national championship within the calendar year. The only one they haven't done within six years is when that Big Ten championship. And the last time they did that was, you know, in the January of 2020. So, you know it's going to be a battle. Like you said, both Signetti and Ryan Day seem to have put stress on this game as not just another game before they embark on their playoff runs. But, you know, both programs want to win and you know, Indiana is going to want to come for that. They have never been in the Big Ten championship before. They have never even won 10 games in a season prior to Signetti's arrival. So, you know, if you're Ohio State, you're always shooting to win the national championship. And, you know, I, like you guys said, you know, I guarantee you every single person on that team would tell you Michigan in the national championship are 10 times more important than the Big Ten championship, but it's still important. It's still, like you guys said, gives them a trophy and another piece of hardware under their belt.
- [38:18]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, Greg, what's your number?
- [38:21]
Greg Wilson
You know, I was, to be honest, I was in the 70 to 80 range, too, I think, when I first thought about this. But I guess also just to be, just to go a little different here, I was thinking about it while you were, what guys were talking about it. I'm just gonna go 100. Just what with what, with what they're feeling right now at this point in time going into Saturday. You know, they say all the time, like Sam said, this is one of their three goals. And, and I believe them. You know, it's, I'm sure they can take a step back and rationally look at this and think, you know, this game maybe doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. But then you think about the psychology of it. It's just there's that football part of their brain, the, the competitive part, the I want to go out and hit somebody part, where it's just like they want to win every single competition that they go out there into. And they have the chance this season to be 160 for the first time ever in college football history. I mean, that they can complete all their goals now. I, I, so I think Ryan Day, the team, really want to win this, this game this weekend. And then, I guess, you know, we'll have those conversations later.
- [39:24]
Doug Lesmerises
That's a compelling case because I think there is the, the generic, like, in a vague way, how much does a conference championship matter in the modern era? But there is some specificity to this moment, the chase for history, something they haven't done that, that I, I, I definitely see where you're coming from, Greg. So I think that could be the right answer. And I do, I do also think that, like Ryan Day talked about, like, when they go to Indy, there's always a bunch of Ohio State fans there. It's gonna be a bunch of Indiana fans there. It's an hour from Bloomington, and there's a bunch of, like, it's in their home state. And so Landis, like, it could be raucous There could be a road game. It'll be a real game, bunch of fans. Because sometimes you go to a Big Ten championship game, it can feel a little hollow. I think there's going to be fans from both sides who are going to fill that place and they're gonna care and I think they're also going to bring some energy that it might be the most energized that we fe indie feel in 15 years because these two teams are going to have a bunch of people there.
- [40:24]
Bill Landis
I actually haven't looked at the market to see what the ticket prices are, but think like neither one of these fan bases, regardless of what happens on Saturday, is going to have an opportunity to watch their team play a home game again. Right. So because they're just going to get buys and go play in bowl games. Proximity favors Indiana. There's also an Indiana basketball game in Indianapolis that day at 2 o' clock they play Louisville. So I expect a good turnout for Ohio State, but I think it'll feel like a road game for the Buckeyes and I do think it'll be, you know, I, I've, I, I think it's always been pretty cool being there. We were there last year when it was Penn State, Oregon, and maybe the wasn't quite as good in terms of environment, but it was still okay. There have been other Ohio State trips there that have been quite good, but this will be the best environment the Big Ten title games ever had. It won't be close.
- [41:13]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a definitive fact. All right, question number four. Before we get to it, I just would like to say go see our friends@roback.com rho bac.com you go there, you go to the game day collection. You start shopping for your whole family. You knock out your Christmas list in like 15 minutes. And then people are going to open their gifts on Christmas. They're going to be like, sam, are you kidding me? What a generous and beautiful gift. And then Greg, when your family opens things, then you can also say, and also I save 20% because I use the code BAD20. So you guys won because I gave you beautiful gifts. Casual attire, but that's classy. That has the Ohio State logo. But Also I saved 20 thanks to Bill and Doug. Bad 20 is the code roback.com r h o b a c dashk.com use the code bad20 to get 20 off. Question number four. Kurt Signetti said that of Ryan Day, he'll be one of the legends of the game someday. In talking about Ryan Day on the Sunday conference call to preview the Big Ten championship game, that compliment was then relayed to Ryan Day, who, frankly, was, like, a little taken aback by it. He sort of didn't know what to say because it's so nice. Kurt Signetti. And I think most people know this, but he also reminded people of this on the call on Sunday because he was talking about playing a 1, 2 game, and he said, I was lucky enough to be part of this when I was at Alabama and we played Urban and Tebow in Florida in consecutive one versus two games in the SEC championship game. Kurt Signetti worked for Nick Saban. Was Kurt Signetti being magnanimous and a lover of college football and an admirer of Ryan Day, or was he feeding him rat poison? Did he mean it? What percent did Kurt Signetti mean it? And what percent was he trying to soften Ryan Day up for Saturday? Bill, we had talked about the idea of, like, oh, like, Kurt Signetti, what a great rival. Like, a guy that you kind of want to go beat, right? Who's other than Michigan. Like, when I think the last time Ohio State really had that was Brett Bielema at Wisconsin. Like, oh, God, like, there's something specific about this guy. And, like, just with Signetti and the swagger that he brought last year, then Ohio State beating him last year, like, and then he was such a swell fellow on Sunday. I was like, what a great representative of college football. But I think he softened me up. So did he mean it? I think he did kind of mean it. I'll say 75%. Kurt Signetti meant it. 25%. He's trying to fatten up Ryan Day before Saturday by feeding him compliments. Sam, what's your breakdown? Did he mean it or not?
- [43:42]
Sam Cipriani
I'm gonna go with 90 10. He meant it. I listened to, you know, both Ryan Day and Kurt Signetti's press conference, and, you know, both of them complimented each other multiple times throughout, you know, gave them each their props. Ryan Day, you know, talked all about how great of a job Chris I. Nettie's done building up the Indiana program over the last two years, bringing in transfers, you know, totally reimagining that program over there. And like you guys said, you know, Signetti called Day, you know, a future legend of college football. And I think he really does mean it. Kurt Signetti is one of the best coaches in the game himself. And when he sees, you know, what Ohio State's done and he's seen it firsthand, he lost 38 to 15 last year in Ohio Stadium. So he knows firsthand how dominant Ohio State, you know, has been over the last year and how hard it is to do the things that Ryan Day has, that has gotten Ohio State to do. And, you know, Signetti is not the only media member or coach that has, you know, gave major props to Ohio State. You know, pretty much everybody and their mother was saying, you know, how freeing it was for Ohio State and Ryan Day to finally be able to beat Michigan this year. So I don't really see it as a smoke screen. And if it is, Kurt Signetti is an evil genius. And, you know, maybe he's, you know, doing things that we can't see ourselves, but I personally think that he was being pretty genuine.
- [45:20]
Doug Lesmerises
All right, so Greg, Sam clearly got suckered by Kurt Signetti. Did you? No. I could be right. That could be right. What's your breakdown, Greg?
- [45:29]
Greg Wilson
Yeah, I, you know, I think I got suckered, too. I, I think it's a real compliment, honestly. It's just because from, from my perspective, it's just hard to imagine that he'll be wrong at this point, you know, about that. Ryan Day's got a national championship. He's got the highest winning percentage in college football history right now, you know, higher than Newt Rock Me. Knock Rockne from the freaking Stone Age, for goodness sake. I mean, that's the type of record that's not supposed to be broken. It's like the, yeah, MLB record of 75 complete games thrown by a pitcher in a season that's never going to be touched again, you know, but it's just, I know Ryan Day is going to be coaching for a while, and that's a living, breathing stat, and, you know, he could lose his next 10 games or whatever. But I guess while, while he has that and while we're watching this, I, I, I. It's hard to imagine that Signetti is going to be wrong when he says that. Maybe there's a small possibility he didn't mean it, but I think he did.
- [46:18]
Doug Lesmerises
What's your breakdown? Give us a number. He meant it. What percent and it was smokescreen. What percentage, Greg? What's, what's the, what's your actual full breakdown of the number?
- [46:32]
Greg Wilson
My full breakdown? Yeah.
- [46:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Was it real?
- [46:36]
Greg Wilson
I guess I'll go 9010 like Sam said.
- [46:38]
Doug Lesmerises
Yes. Guess who's not going 90 10. Guess who's not going 90 ten. Veteran ball knower Bill Landis. Four years in Alabama for Kurt Signetti. Me. Little old me coaching against a future legend of the Game. What chance do I have? I'm just a little old Kurt Signetti from IUP and Elon and jmu.
- [46:57]
Greg Wilson
You.
- [46:57]
Doug Lesmerises
I'm just lucky to have this job going against a legend. What's your breakdown?
- [47:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah, 10% genuine. Flip it the other way. Because like Greg's right. There's truth to it. Right. Because he's. Ryan Day is the head coach at Ohio State with a national championship, certainly capable of winning more. And if that is the case, he is by default a legend of college football. I, I am in no way disparaging Ryan Day's coaching acumen. The motivation for Kurt Signetti putting Ryan Day on a pedestal is to make his win over Ryan Day more impressive. Right. He called Dan Lanning a phenom before he beat him in Eugene. He's calling Ryan Day a legend before he thinks he's going to beat him in the Big Ten championship game. So I'm not saying he doesn't mean it, but I think you guys are being a little too generous with what his motives might have been for saying that.
- [47:52]
Greg Wilson
That's true. His motives are a little different. Yeah, that's true.
- [47:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Just because it's true doesn't mean he means it. Or just because it's true doesn't mean he doesn't have a motivation for saying it. Right. Like Riz, Ryan Day a very good coach. Yes. Why did Kurt Signetti point it out? Just because he's a fine fella. Maybe not. Rat poison. He's feeding him rat poison. And like me.
- [48:21]
Modelo Advertiser
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly. Macaroni and cheese. Modelo and college football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer. Sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [49:16]
Walmart Advertiser
The who's down and who Newville were making their list but some didn't know Walmart has the best brands for their gifts.
- [49:22]
Doug Lesmerises
What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year?
- [49:25]
Walmart Advertiser
Yep, Barbie, Tonys and Lego Gifts that.
- [49:28]
Doug Lesmerises
Will make them all cheer. Do you mean they have all the brands I adore?
- [49:32]
Walmart Advertiser
They have Nintendo, nespresso, Apple and more.
- [49:35]
Doug Lesmerises
What a bad.
- [49:36]
Walmart Advertiser
So the who answered questions from friends till they were blue. Each one listened and shouted from Walmart. Who knew? Shop gifts from top brands for everyone on your list in the Walmart app.
- [49:48]
Doug Lesmerises
Last one. This is looking back at the game again, fellas. You young folks over there, your generation. And this is where I wanted to talk about sort of like the, the equilibrium. Equilibrium in the Ohio State Michigan game. So just to remind people, in the 37 years of Woody Hayes and Earl Bruce running the show for the Ohio State Buckeyes, Ohio state had a 21, 15 and one edge over Michigan in those 37 years. So it's clearly an advantage, but it's also, it's not domination, right? Like Woody didn't win 15 straight against Michigan. And then Cooper came in and it was 210 and one and then trestle and urban combined were 16 one and. And then we know that Ryan Day lost four straight. So just as a reminder, I want to do this like generationally I, I thought of it as like maybe when you're five years old is when maybe you would have a first memory of an Ohio State Michigan game. So it's not about when you're born. It's like I tried to think about like when you're, when you're five, the first thing that you could remember. So the people who came up and like their first exposure to Ohio State football was that equilibrium was in the Woody or Earl Bruce era. Those people are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s today.
- [51:03]
Sam Cipriani
Right?
- [51:03]
Doug Lesmerises
Like that's, that's, if you're that age, you came up in a time when the rivalry really mattered, but nobody was purely dominating it. If you were exposed to Ohio State football in the Cooper era, you're like in your 30s and maybe early 40s right now. So you are like, you bear the scars and you probably don't take things for granted. You don't, you know, there are, you can't shake that. It always influences you. And then if you came up in the Trestle and Urban era, you're in your 20s, you're in your late teens, right? You're maybe like, like, like 11 to 29, like these like you guys, right? That it's just like what, Ohio State beats Michigan. What are you talking about? And so now this generation who, who came to the game through this four game losing streak, like they're in elementary school, but like this generation is, even if Ohio State gets it back now, is going to share at least a little something with some of The Cooper era people. So I think like that again, the, the older people, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, you understood it when there wasn't the kind of pressure where it's like, holy moly, somebody's getting their butt kicked. So, Sam, I want to start with you as someone who grew up at a time where Ohio State was dominating. What was it like and what do you think it was like for your friends and family and your peers and your generation to then see this four game losing streak for Ohio State when you were. Were raised on the Buckeyes dominate the rivalry.
- [52:38]
Sam Cipriani
So I'm 22, turning 23 here in a couple weeks now. So I was born in 2002, so I mean, I wasn't conscious enough to remember most of the Trestle era, but my first time really remembering the game was the fickle year. So I actually started off, I kind of started off on a loss, but after that it was all wins from there. So I was in elementary school in 2012 and I was in college the next time that OSU lost. So, you know, if that tells you something about how dominant Ohio State was over my childhood, I feel like you can't really put it any better than that, you know, and it wasn't just they were beating Michigan, you know, absolute domination, scoring 60 points on them in the, in the last win before that. Well, two years before that. And then, you know, I get to college in 2021 and OSU loses for the first time. I'm like, what? I, I couldn't, I could, I couldn't believe it. I, I mean, it was Thanksgiving break. I'm just sitting at home in my room and I, it was, it was an unreal experience for me. I mean, I, I honestly just kind of sat in bed and I didn't know what to do with myself. I mean, I sat. I basically sat there and pouted for an entire day after they lost. And I mean, I had never experienced it before. So, like, what. How, how else am I gonna know how to control my emotions? And then 2022 was even more shocking because I thought Ohio State, you know, had that game in hand with how good that offense were in their receivers. And then 2023 was kind of the first year when I was, you know, I've been talking with my friends and they even felt it this year, a feeling of almost impending doom when the game was coming. And, you know, it for my entire childhood, I, I look forward to the game. You know, got up on, you know, the, the Saturday after Thanksgiving and I was like, oh, she's gonna kick Michigan's butt. And you know, it. We're. We'll live happy ever after and go to the Big Ten championship. And, you know, lived. I live. I was living in buc fantasy land. And then, you know, 2021 through 2024 happens and it was honestly a reality check. And honestly, I think it was really important for me to be able to, you know, process the rivalry and see both sides and, you know, see how truly both fans wanted because I never really realized how bad the other side wanted it until OSU was losing. So it was really interesting, you know, coming into my time as a reporter after three straight losses, because honestly, 2024, and for all of us, it was probably the most shocking of them all. And you know, experiencing that on the field, you know, it was, it was, it was just. It was an unreal experience for me and it's just such a change. And I, I feel like the kids that are growing up now are. Would agree with me that, you know, they won't ever experience anything like the feeling of before a loss from 2022 to 2024 where, you know, you just feel like your gut is dropping before the game because you're so nervous about winning.
- [56:13]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [56:13]
Doug Lesmerises
Does this, Greg, does this make you like you and Sam are gonna go hang out with like a bunch of 37 year olds who were introduced in the Cooper era and you guys can bond over this stuff. Do you think has it scarred your generation here, Greg, these last four games or. And were you living in fantasyland too?
- [56:28]
Greg Wilson
You know, I, I don't think necessarily I was living in Buckeye fantasy land, but, you know, I completely get the feeling though, the feeling during that stretch, I mean, you know, Michigan really might never win in the rivalry again, at least on a. On a bigger scale. You know, they might get one here or there. But it was hard to see it completely flipping even for a four game stretch like it did over the last four years. And I mean, maybe I shouldn't say this on an Ohio State podcast, but I'm glad that it did, honestly, just because I've been watching for the last five years for a more neutral perspective and, and maybe that's why I feel that way. I covered the 2023 and 24 games, but man, I mean, these last two years of the rivalry of been more fun than I've ever had in any sort of way involved in this. In this rivalry. The emotion that is involved with it now, it just, it feels so much more heightened and maybe that's Partly because I'm on the field for the flag planting and the emotion that came with all that, obviously that leaked over into this year, but it just didn't feel like this, at least from my perspective, for such a long time. And, you know, I never really experienced before that what it probably did, you know, did feel like for so long before the 2000s.
- [57:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, it's interesting, Bill, and I think, obviously, like, for you and I, the thing that it relates to, to me is like, my first year covering Ohio State was 2005. And so I cov. I've covered this team for two decades, but I covered the team for 15 years where they didn't lose to Michigan. It's like the one time they lost was the season that exploded, but otherwise, when Ohio State had a normal season, they beat Michigan every year. And so, like, what. I didn't even catch the one trestle loss. Like, what was the. You know, like, that's part of it, but I think it affected, like, sort of how we covered Ohio State. Did it? Not like when you covered it in the era of, like. I've never covered a Michigan loss. I don't know how everybody's gonna react.
- [58:09]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that was the thing. It's like, because you want to, you want to provide the fan base, what they're looking for right after. And, and like, after a win, it's easy, right? But I, I. The first one was shocking because, like, you just weren't entirely sure that it was ever going to come, right? And, and that that made it difficult to cover. And then, like, honestly, after, like, like 22 and 23, it didn't get easier. But, you know, unfortunately for Ohio State, like, you kind of got into the rhythms of covering a loss to Michigan, but then last year was just like, like, so out of left field. It's like, I, I really, really hard to kind of synthesize and, and try to contextualize and look ahead from what that could possibly mean. And then they quickly kind of, whatever, put that to bed by winning the national championship. I guess. So, yeah, it is. It's a difficult thing to try to wrangle this rivalry. I think that's what makes it. What makes it great. And I don't know that the people who live and breathe with it every. Every day and every year probably don't care about our side of it and how difficult it might be to cover at times. But I think the biggest thing is, like, is. Is sort of what Greg said, like, like, whatever it is, there's an appreciation with covering it because of, of, you know, what, what it means to everybody involved.
- [59:23]
Doug Lesmerises
I will say I spent a lot of time in those first 15 years being like, is there a big arrivals? Should we not have green pens now? Is Michigan State the rival? Is Clemson the rival? How does that. Because there was just such an assumption with Ohio State, Michigan, it's like, hey, this is the greatest rival in college sports. Like, I don't know, the same team wins every year. Like, what are we talking about? And so like that I'm, you know, I will never ask again. Like, hey, Mark Dantonio's Michigan State replacement. Okay, they've lost, like, it. Reset it for me a little bit, too. All right, we got to go do some stuff. We have more coverage to do this week. Sam Cipriani and Greg Wilson from Buckeye Sports Bulletin, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy week to join us. Sam, where can the folks find you? Find bsb, find your coverage.
- [60:05]
Sam Cipriani
So you are going to be able to find us@buckeyesports.com and we have a variety of online and then as well as we have weekly publications throughout the football season, bi weekly throughout the majority of the basketball season from January to April. And then we publish our magazine monthly throughout the summer.
- [60:27]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. And so, Greg, you guys are still like making the real stuff, right? And this digital world, you guys are still making a real thing. And I bet you there are, there are Ohio State fans out there who still keep what you guys produce, like as keepsakes, right? As mementos of what's happening in a season. And that's kind of a cool thing, is it not, Greg?
- [60:44]
Greg Wilson
Oh, yeah, it is a cool thing. Yeah. We saw our, our coverage of the Michigan recap on college game day last year after, after the loss, you know, it got kind of slapped onto a table at a bar in Ohio State. Just the, the COVID we had there. So it is pretty cool to see all that. Yeah. So, you know, if anyone still likes to have, you know, physical print paper in your hands, you know, I know that's not a ton of people these days. Our publisher, Frank, would kill me if I didn't mention this. You can get four free issues if you just call 614-486-2202. You can get four free issues, no obligation. Don't have to give a credit card number, anything. Four free issues sent to.
- [61:19]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, yeah.
- [61:22]
Sam Cipriani
That is a great deal.
- [61:23]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh, yeah, we're given 18 off. And we're like, oh, look at this great bargain. And you guys are like, just take it for free. Here. Here's a whole. There's four. That's fantastic. Go check out what Sam and Greg and their crew are doing over there at Buckeye Sports Bulletin. Thanks to both of you guys for joining us. Bill Landis, you and I are still covering the team, yes.
- [61:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah, we are. Yep. Yep, they're still playing. Yeah.
- [61:45]
Doug Lesmerises
So, Bill and Doug osu.substack.com here on the YouTube feed, here on the podcast feeds. We're grateful that we get to do it. We're honored that we have great members of the media come join us every Monday. And we're having a good time and we'll keep doing this. So for now, for Sam, for Greg, for Bill, I'm Doug. And that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug show.
- [62:11]
Walmart Advertiser
Everybody knows Shaq, but off camera, he's.
- [62:13]
Doug Lesmerises
Just a regular guy.
- [62:14]
Walmart Advertiser
People never believe me when I say I'm just like them. I take out the trash, do dishes, and I struggle with moderate obstructive sleep apnea, or osa. And a lot of adults with obesity also struggle with moderate to severe osa. You know, those scary breathing interruptions during sleep, the loud snoring, choking, and daytime fatigue. I knew I had to talk to my doctor. Don't sleep on the symptoms. Learn more@don'tsleeponosa.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company. Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in Whoville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.