Ohio State football MVP; grading Ryan Day; Michigan effect on the Buckeyes: Around the Shoe

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk – Episode Summary

Episode: Ohio State football MVP; grading Ryan Day; Michigan effect on the Buckeyes: Around the Shoe
Air Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Doug Lesmerises ("Doug") and Bill Landis ("Landis")
Guests: Patrick Murphy (Buck Nuts), Andy Anders (Eleven Warriors)
Podcast Network: Blue Wire

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Overview

This episode features Doug and Landis joined by two respected Ohio State beat writers: Patrick Murphy and Andy Anders. The panel delivers a lively, insightful roundtable on the defending national champion Buckeyes. Topics include naming a midseason team MVP, grading head coach Ryan Day’s performance, which young players they’d like to see more of, and how the ongoing losing streak to Michigan hangs over the season. The show closes with a lighthearted segment on beard maintenance among sportswriters.

Tone is conversational, self-deprecating, and often playful, with an emphasis on fan engagement and honest analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Midseason Team MVP: The Arvell Reese Consensus

[03:20–13:13]

• Four-for-four MVP pick: All panelists name sophomore linebacker Arvell Reese as Ohio State’s first-half MVP, citing his versatility and impact on the nation’s top defense.
  • Patrick Murphy:
    • Highlights Reese’s leadership in tackles, usage “all over the field,” and his ability to "unlock" Matt Patricia’s defensive schemes.
    • “He’s been nothing but spectacular…the versatility that he provides has allowed them to unlock some things in Matt Patricia’s defense that if you don’t have an Arvell Reese type, you’re probably not able to do…” [03:52]
  • Andy Anders:
    • Emphasizes Reese’s dominance against mobile QBs and future NFL potential.
    • “Value is enabling the defense to be at its best…and what he’s done in terms of just completely eliminating the threat of a mobile quarterback...” [05:30]
  • Bill Landis:
    • Also shouts out Jeremiah Smith (WR) for offensive MVP, crediting his “gravity” in drawing coverage.
    • Notes Reese is “clearly Ohio State’s most exciting player right now, and the draft guys can’t stop talking about him...” [10:03]
  • Doug:
    • Agrees on Reese; proposes a “master key” nickname for his ability to "unlock" the defense.
    • Playful Oscar-style analogy for MVP contenders, noting Reese as the true elevator.
  • Honorable Mentions:
    • Caleb Downs (Safety)
    • Jeremiah Smith (WR)
    • Julian Sayin (QB)
    • Kaden Curry (DL/Edge)
  • Panel Quote:
    • “Are Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith the two best players in college football? Because, by the way, I’m making it four for four on Arvell Reese...” – Doug [09:22]

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2. Grading Ryan Day’s Coaching – First Half of 2025

[15:02–22:53]

• Grades:
  • Andy: A– (transition in philosophy, home-run coordinator hire in Matt Patricia, but minor gripes with run-game commitment)
  • Landis: Solid A (managed offseason well, especially staff retention)
  • Doug: A– (praises Day’s adaptability and executing what’s “smartest for this team” over personal style)
  • Patrick: A– (consistency, focus, and handling of championship expectations; wants more from run game)
• Notable Quotes:
  • “One of the things I like best about Ryan Day is I think he continues to coach in the way that he thinks is best, not what he is inclined to do…” – Doug [19:18]
  • “Matt Patricia hire: A plus…that to me is the biggest home run he hit of the offseason.” – Andy [15:20]
  • “I don’t know how it couldn’t be an A.” – Bill [17:55]

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3. Young or Underused Player to Watch in the Second Half

[23:15–30:36]

• Mylan Graham (WR):
  • Landis’s pick due to untapped potential in the slot ("they’ve targeted him once").
  • Cites inefficiency at slot receiver (Brandon Inniss “not a plus this year”).
• Isaiah West (RB):
  • Doug wonders if he could become a legitimate rotational back, given the need for more pop outside of Bo Jackson.
• Brandon Inniss (Slot WR):
  • Patrick wants to see his skills leveraged more (motion/handoff packages à la Egbuka).
• Rylee Petijohn (LB):
  • Andy sees flashes of special ability and wants more opportunities for him behind the nation’s best linebacker tandem.
• Discussion on running back depth:
  • Consensus that with running game inconsistency, freshmen might get increased run down the stretch.
• Panel Quote:
  • “The ball is not coming his way because the ball is going to Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate a lot...” – Landis on Graham [23:15]
  • “If you need to get this run game going, and if it means playing two freshman running backs...I'm perfectly okay with giving some other guys some options.” – Patrick [29:30]

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4. How Much Does the Michigan Losing Streak Hang Over the Season?

[31:53–39:22]

• Doug’s Estimate:
  • 60% overall (30% so far, will jump to 90% as schedule lightens and Michigan looms).
  • “It hasn’t been (a lot) so far. I think we’re about to get to the point where it’s hard to avoid talking about Michigan almost every day.” [33:20]
• Others:
  • Patrick, Andy: 50% (spike now that Penn State is out of the race; becomes dominant narrative heading into rivalry week)
  • Landis: Billiion Percent.
    • Emphatic that nothing else matters to Ohio State’s season.
    • “It's a billion percent…They have not lost five straight in this rivalry since the 1920s. Like, they have to win this game. What do you mean? …It’s the only thing that defines this season.” – Bill [37:40]
• Memorable Moment:
  • Landis calling out the panel for underestimating the weight of The Game, leading to laughter and jokes about “sober up” and “breathalyzer test” [38:25–39:22]

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5. Beard Talk: The Buckeye Beat’s Secret Society

[40:06–50:22]

– Show pivots from basketball to “beard talk” with all four panelists sharing maintenance stories.

• Patrick:
  • Had a beard since eighth grade.
  • “Having good beard oil, if you’re going to have a real beard, is crucial…” [43:06]
• Andy:
  • Started late; details on shaping neckline and cheeks; infamous story about accidentally shaving only half his face before practice [46:05].
• Landis:
  • Notes his beard and mustache don’t connect:
  • “My mustache does not grow as thick nor at the same rate as my beard…for a while I would shave my mustache, but not my beard. So I was looking rather Amish…” [47:03]
• Doug:
  • New to “Beard Gang,” joking about group selfies at interviews.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “Jeremiah Smith's gravity, I think is unlike anything else in college football. It is doing wonders for his teammates, and he's not so bad himself.” – Bill Landis [07:02]
• “I think he continues to coach in the way that he thinks is best, not what he is inclined to do...You have to do not what you desire, but what you believe to be the smartest thing.” – Doug [19:18]
• “It’s the rivalry and that’s what it deserves.” – Bill Landis, on Michigan, in emphatic, tongue-in-cheek “a billion percent” [37:40]
• Beard tip montage:
  • “Having good beard oil…” – Patrick [43:06]
  • “Figuring out my neckline...” – Andy [44:11]
  • “Understand how your facial hair grows, what length works best for your face…” – Landis [47:24]

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Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:06 | Introduction, guest introductions, playful banter | | 03:20 | Q1: Who is Ohio State’s MVP? (Consensus: Arvell Reese) | | 15:02 | Q2: Grading Ryan Day’s year | | 23:15 | Q3: Young/underused player to see more of? | | 31:53 | Q4: How much does the Michigan rivalry “hang over” this season? | | 40:06 | Bonus Q5: “Beard talk” and lighthearted closing |

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Episode Takeaways

• Defensive Breakout: The panel’s unanimous MVP choice encapsulates how defense is defining this year’s Buckeyes, while still spotlighting elite offensive talent.
• Coaching Evolution: Ryan Day has adapted remarkably, putting team strengths ahead of personal offensive preferences.
• The Only Test That Matters: Michigan week will completely dominate the narrative, and none of Ohio State’s regular season accomplishments will be fully appreciated until then.
• Culture & Camaraderie: The beard talk highlights the human side of the Buckeye beat, closing the episode on a fun, relatable note.

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Useful for Fans:
Even if you missed the episode, this summary covers all major Buckeyes talking points, provides panel opinions and statistics, and lets you in on the running jokes and Buckeye beat culture. Relive key moments—and get expert facial hair advice—all in one place.

Transcript

[Andy Anders]

Foreign.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Welcome back to around the Shoe, your favorite Ohio State sports program. At least the favorite one you're watching right now. Doug Lay, Maurice and Bill Landis joined each week by two spectacular guests from the Ohio State beat this week. Patrick Murphy of Buck Nuts, Andy Anders of eleven Warriors. Landis. How good is this group?

[Bill Landis]

This is the best one we've had so far. No offense to our previous guests, but no one's rocking the Hawaiian like Anders. And also shout out to Pat Murphy for showing up in the roeback here.

[Patrick Murphy]

I do what I can help the sponsors.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Oh well, you mean Roback R-O-B-A-K.com if you want to go check it out. The game day selection. Help out your fall Ohio State wardrobe. Put in the code BAD20 to get 20 off your first order courtesy of the Bad podcast. Is that what he's rocking Landis? Is that what you're talking about?

[Bill Landis]

Yes, sir, indeed.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I like, I like Landis with the subtle thing to get me to do the ad read earlier than 38 minutes into the show, which is usually when I remember to do it. Roback.com R H O-B-A-C-K.com Go check out the the Fall of the Game Day collection is good stuff. Patrick Murphy, how long have you been covering the Ohio State Buckeyes?

[Patrick Murphy]

I started full time in 2015, so we're into 10 years now. I was doing a little bit interning before then started with Buckn Nuts 20 end of the 2016 football season. So been with them for, for quite some time now and yeah, it's been good. Good. No complaints on my part.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah, you swept in. Swept right in at that. After the national championship. Just like a little need a little bit of a reset. Here comes Patrick Murphy then like they didn't win anything for a while.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

So I probably a a burden off your shoulders for Ohio State to get it done last year because you thought it was you.

[Patrick Murphy]

Definitely. I mean I was around during the 2013 and 2014 season, but I didn't travel. I didn't do any of that. I just kind of wr from afar and came to some interviews. So yeah, they, they clearly did not like what I was bringing and they finally figured it out.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah, they got the Murphy vibe going. Andy Anders, how long for you covering the Ohio state Buckeyes over 11 Warriors?

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, unlike Pat, I'm going to count my intern time because you know I put in that work with Kevin Noon Rivals over there. But yeah, including that seven seasons now started back in 2018 so I got to see the last year of the Urban Meyer era, and then I've been there all but one year of the Ryan Day era. When back in 2021 when I was living in Alabama, Bill shout out to Bill was help mentoring me during that time. Always very thankful for that. And him, he. I'd send him stories and he'd give me some feedback. So always very appreciative of that from him. But I grew up in Ohio. I went to Ohio State. It's been a dream to cover the team and I'm excited to be where I'm at.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Were you kidnapped? What happened? Why were you in Alabama? What happened?

[Andy Anders]

Listen, you know, sports journalism, you gotta take, take where the jobs lead you, you know, And I got a sports editor job down there for a local paper, covered high school sports for a while, which was fun and obviously very different from covering Ohio State because it's just you covering all the events and stuff you go to for the most part. So it took me down there for a year and led me back up here.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I firmly believe that you do need to go where the job takes you, except the South. I don't apply that. I mean, like, stay, stay up here. All right, we got five quick hit Ohio State topics to discuss. We'll go around the circle as we go around the shoe. Our first question of the day, Patrick Murphy, we're going to lead off with you. Who, which Ohio State player do you believe is the MVP of the first half of the season? And we're kind of doing like a little bit of halfway awards here kind of thing. Pat, who you got?

[Patrick Murphy]

I went with Arvel Reese. I think there's probably a number of guys that you could make the argument for, but I was looking this morning sort of debating some guys and Arvel leads the team in tackles. He is third in tackles for loss, second in sacks. So he's, he's clearly been a big part of what this defense has done. He's moved around, he's lined up defensive line. We've seen him on both edges. We've seen him come up the middle. We've seen him fake coming up the middle for, to confuse quarterbacks. We've seen him line up at middle linebacker. He's been on the outside. So look, I think the, the versatility that he provides has allowed them to unlock some things in Matt Patricia's defense that if you don't have an Arvel Reese type, you're probably not able to do. And I think he's been a big part of why they've been able to to put together the best defense in the country so far this year. But again, I think you could make a make case for a lot of different guys. He just was the one that continuously stands out to me and maybe it's because he's doing it for the first time and we didn't know completely what to expect, but I think he's been been nothing but spectacular that the, the V is hard.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

The V in life is always hard. Like what does valuable mean to you in this situation? Because it's not. We didn't ask for the MEP most excellent player. We didn't ask for the MCP the most player. It's a hard question. Andy, I'm curious where you go?

[Andy Anders]

Well, for me I was gonna go the same place as Pat, but I can't do that now because that would be.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I just want to say because I already did some Orville re research, I'm gonna be tacky. Like you're allowed to be tacky. Just go where?

[Andy Anders]

All right, fine, then that's. I'll be tacky then I'll hop back. I'll hop on. I'm with the Arvell Reese MVP train. This guy is, I think very. There's a very good chance he's a top 10 pick come the NFL draft time. Just watching him and the way he can forklift 350 pound offensive lineman and get after the quarterback. They use him all over the field. I mean rush in, they'll line him up, they put him in B gap on the line of scrimmage. But for me, I think the reason I pick him as the most valuable to me value is enabling the defense to be at its best or the unit you're on to be at its best best. And what he's done in terms of just completely eliminating the threat of a mobile quarterback. I mean what they did with him against Damon Williams Jr. What they did with him against Arch Banning, all these guys, like in the past we've seen Ohio State defenses get hurt by guys who could run the ball at the quarterback position. And it seems whenever Arvel is out there, he's just mirroring the quarterback or if they send him on the rush, he's often getting home. But if he's mirroring a guy who's fast and shifty like the Mon Williams, I think the Mon Williams is lowest rushing total outside the Ohio state game is 6054 yards, something like that. It's. He had negative 28 against Ohio State. I mean that to me is What? Arbel Reese. When you have a linebacker who can do that and just eliminate the threat of a quarterback's legs, it allows the defensive line to pin their ears back a little bit more. So I really feel like he's elevated the entire defense because of that.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Landis, you going there too?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, he's my pick, but I will shout out somebody else. It's another obvious one, but I, I, I'll give some love to Jeremiah Smith. On the other side of the wall, there is this notion, I feel like, that he's not, he's not been as productive as people thought he was going to be. He's second in the country in touchdown receptions. He's top 10 in receptions. He's top 20 in receiving yards. Like, he's been plenty productive. And we all know the impact that he has on Ohio State's offense. We saw the play last two weeks ago against Minnesota when a bunch of defenders ran with him to set up a touchdown for Carnell Tate. They tried to set up something against Illinois with like a fake screen and throw it over the guy's heads to use Jeremiah's decoy. But if you also go and watch the touchdown that Bo Jackson scored on the, the red zone pass, Jeremiah Smith runs like a, a deep or not a deep, but like a dig route on the goal line. And at the time when Julian Saying throws the ball to Bo Jackson, there are like five defenders circling Jeremiah Smith, and that entire left side of the field is wide open for Bo Jackson to catch the ball and then run in for a touchdown. So his gravity, Jeremiah Smith's gravity, I think is unlike anything else in college football. It is doing wonders for his teammates, and he's not so bad himself. So I think Reese is the right pick for the team mvp. But if you were to give, like an offensive mvp, I think it's clearly Jeremiah.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

So. So if we were doing this Oscar style and we had five nominees, would the nominees be for Ohio State MVP of the first half? Caleb Downs for safety that plays everywhere. Jeremiah Smith for best player in college football. Julian Saying for poise running the offense, Kaden Curry for Holy Moly, what is that guy doing? And Arvell Reese for unlocking the defense. And they'd have the five guys on the screen, kind of like we have right now. If we had a fifth guy, five guys on the screen. And Kate and Curry are like, kaden Curry cannot believe he got nominated. Kaden Curry's family is so excited you got nominated for MVP of the first half. Nobody saw that coming. Julian Saiyan's like Chalamet, right? That's just like, this is his first one. He's gonna win one eventually. It's just not his time yet. And then the rest of it is, like, Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith kind of both think they're gonna win. They're being cool about it.

[Bill Landis]

They're streep. They're always nominated.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

They think it's theirs. And, like, when they start to say the name, both Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith start to get out of their seat. But then they say Arvell Reese, and they're kind of surprised at first. Arlo Reese goes, and then Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith go. You know what? That's right. That's a good pick, and they respect it. Landis. Right? Like, it's. We're talking about. Are Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith the two best players in college football? Because, by the way, I'm making it four for four on Arvell Reese. Are the four of us nuts, Bill, or is that what's happening here, that Smith and. And Downs are like, the baseline, but Reese is the elevator?

[Bill Landis]

I don't think anyone would disagree. Yeah. Like, clearly the college football world thinks Arval Reese is the very least. Ohio State's, like, most exciting player right now, and the draft guys can't stop talking about him to the point where it's almost annoying. I wish they would just stop watching college football, but that won't happen. Yeah, he's gone, unfortunately.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

But, yeah, he's. It's the production. It's the, like, the way that he clearly terrifies, I think, opposing offensive coordinators and opposing quarterbacks. And if you ask Jeremiah Smith and. And Caleb Downs if they thought he was the mvp, I bet their answer would be yes, too. Yeah.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Pat, did you think when you said Arvell Reese that we're going to go 4 for 4 on Arvell Reese?

[Patrick Murphy]

I didn't think it would be 4 for 4. I did think he would get mentioned by. By others, at least. And Doug, you said he might be surprised. I don't know if he'd be surprised. When we were talking to him last week, that's the most confident kid, and we talk to a lot of confident kids. Like, he doesn't seem surprised by anything he's doing this year, which I think is. Is a credit to him. Like, he knew he could come in and play. I think he thought he could do it last year and just, you know, he had better guys in front of him. But I'm glad you brought up Kaden Curry too, because the way that he's been able to impact things from a guy that I don't think many people were talking about enough in the off season, you know, he didn't get a big opportunity, but Kenyatta Jackson seemed to be the. The hot name, right? Especially Big Ten media days. So yeah, Kaden Curry I think also deserves. Deserves mention there. So good for the Ryu for bringing him up.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I. I love, like working out terrible nicknames. So I was trying to think about, I think Caleb Downs is. I want to call him the superintendent because he's the guy that runs the building. He's the super, right. And plus he's kind of like Superman and he's everywhere. But then like, you know how the super has that big thing of keys on his hip and it unlocks all the doors. Arvell Reese is the biggest key. And like Arvel Reese is the master key that.

[Patrick Murphy]

That's the.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Unlocks every door in the building. So can we call Arvell Reese the master key? That's terrible. But Andy, like, that's what you're talking about. I was looking.

[Patrick Murphy]

Pff.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Pass rush, like success rate, how often you get a pressure compared to how often you pass rush. He's number one in the power conference because he's only has like 58 pass rush snaps, but he has 16 pressures. But Andy, it's that what you talked about. He can get after the quarterback. He can spy, he can drop in coverage. He feels like if. If Caleb's in charge, Arvel is what makes everything possible.

[Andy Anders]

Exactly. It's almost like, you know, like you said, Arvell is the superintendent. Then I guess you could call our belt. Sorry, Caleb is the superintendent. You can call Arvel the principal, right? Like he's out there with the students, enforcing everything, making sure the show is being run, you know, and don't want to knock. Obviously. He plays next to an elite player too, in Sonny Styles, right? Best linebacker tandem in the country. And what Matt Patricia has been able to do with those two guys, you just never know when they're at the line of scrimmage who's showing, who's going, who's bailing, who's spying, what's happening. It makes it so confusing for an offensive line and a quarterback to set a pass protection when you're trying to drop back and throw the ball. So exactly like it's what you said. It's what I said earlier. Elevating the entire defense and doing so many different things, wearing so many different hats.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Landis, can you make a Certificate that we can give Arvell Reese first half MVP of Around the shoe.

[Bill Landis]

Sure. Yeah. I'll make. I'll make one up right now. Take it to him on Wednesday.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah. See if. Is your printer working? Does your printer work? My printer gets on the fridge sometimes.

[Bill Landis]

It's 2025. I don't own a printer.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

No, I feel like I'm 100 years old. I print things out like every day. I have standing in front. Yeah, Pat has a printer. All right. Question number two. Do you have a printer, Andy? No, actually.

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[Doug Lay Maurice]

Andy Anders Question number two for you. Give a grade to Ryan Day for what he's done so far this season and we can include the off season. Sort of like all the coaching he's done. Let's say from the moment they left the the national championship celebration at Ohio Stadium until now.

[Andy Anders]

I this is I, I'm like borderline between A and A minus. Like I think it's clearly in the A range for me. Like Matt Patricia hire A plus what he's done with the defense. I think there were people I certainly had some doubts about the hire. Other people might have second guessed the hire like that to me is the biggest home run he hit of the off season. The transfer portal additions, they only needed to address a few niches in the end it turned out and Phil Philip Daniels I think has exceeded expectations, making up for the fact that Ethan on the on was kind of been a little under what they expected from him in the portal. Claire's finding his stride. I think what I love about Ryan's approach now, and I think where he's evolved as a coach over the last several years is he kind of doesn't care what people think about, like, style, points, or. And how he wins games. It's very much this season, Ben. Hey, I know the public, I know the fans don't necessarily want me to run the ball and trust the defense and have this more slow plotting, methodical approach, but to me, that's what's going to win games. And so that's what I'm going to do. And, you know, they go and win these games comfortably by three scores. The only. And you know, I'm kind of like doing the college grading scale where, you know, A is the highest. Right. So A minus one step below that. The only thing is I do wish that they would enable. They would have entrusted Julian saying a little more in this last game, and I feel like more downfield passing when it's there, and less reliance on a running game that was less efficient when, you know, they were averaging 2.9 yards per carry against Illinois. They ended up running it 34 times or calling 34 runs, excluding the 2Ds. And with Julian, say, and scramble 28 passes, and he talked about efficiency during the week and doing what's efficient for the offense. And I feel like the passing game had. Was more efficient in that game, even with some of the condensed fields that they were seeing because of the defensive turnovers and things like that. So it's minor. Very. A minor gripe overall. Very glowing review of what Ryan Day has done this offseason this season. But as he would say, there's always room for improvement and the issues are the issues.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

So what's. What's the actual grade? You can't. I can't land at between A minus and an A. Oh, no.

[Andy Anders]

A minus. A minus.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

A minus. Okay. Okay, Landis, what do you got?

[Bill Landis]

I feel like I know what Anders is going to ask about on Tuesday.

[Patrick Murphy]

If he gets a question.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, I'm not usually a Tuesday guy.

[Bill Landis]

All right, Wednesday then. It's an A. I don't know how. I don't know how it couldn't be an A I. And I like. Ditto. Everything that Andy said. Right. The. The off season was managed really well. I. I think he did a nice job with the. The coordinator hires that he made. I guess you can say the jury's still out on the OC thing, but I'm just sort of in the camp of if for any reason that doesn't work out exactly how Ohio State wants it to. Ryan. Ryan Days and likes kind of like going backstop there to help that along if needs. If it needs to call plays. Retaining the staff, I think is not like something we talked about a lot, but, like, keeping all those assistance was huge, especially on the defensive side. Portal additions are fine, I guess. Like the one if I were finding something that would make me want to lower the grade at all, and I really don't want to, it would be like the running back position, I just think is like, it's probably not exactly what it needs to be. If you look up and down the roster. I don't think the roster has many holes or any holes, but. And I wouldn't even say like, running back as a whole necessarily, but I don't know that it's a. It's exactly where it needs to be in terms of like the Ohio State standard. Bo Jackson's very good as a young player, but I don't think you want any position to have to rely upon a true freshman to be at the level you want it to be. And I don't know that. I don't know. They did the best job of like, analyzing what they had and analyzing the portal options and making that exactly what it needed to be. But that's not such a a strike against him that I would lower it from an A, because everything else has been really good.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah, I will go A minus. I'm not even sure why it's the minus, but. But like, one of the things that I like best about Ryan Day is I think he continues to coach in the way that he thinks his best. Not what he is inclined to do, just double checking again. His two years as offensive coordinator, Ohio State was sixth in scoring offense, 15th in scoring defense, in 2017, 2018, eighth in scoring offense, 50th in scoring defense.

[Patrick Murphy]

Right.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

So there's just like 2018. They're scoring a lot of points, but they're giving up a lot of points. Right. 50th in the country in defense. This year they're first in scoring defense and 23rd in offense. And that's not actually what is in his heart and soul of how to run a team, but it's like what they're good at. They're leaning into what they do best. And in 2019, his first year as a head coach, they scored 46.9 points per game. They're scoring 36.8 points per game this year and they're the best team in the country, scoring 10 fewer points per game than, than year one. And I just think it is truth to do not what you desire, but what you believe to be the smartest thing. And I just think that having a handle on that while not abandoning your principles, I don't think he's like forgotten what got him the job in the first place. But there's just like little enough tiny little nitpicks here and there that I'll go a minus, but I don't have a good reason for it. Pat Murphy, what are you.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, I echo what, what you all have said. I will do a minus as well. And mainly because harsh graders, largely due to the, the running game. Like I want to see that be as you guys have said, like, you know, more explosive, find the holes, those type of things. Doug, I think the, the, the evolution of Ryan Day has been really interesting because last year I think they managed it really well. I know they lose the two games, but he was probably one of the guys who was ahead of the times and hey, let's slow things down. We want to play a long season and that really works out right. You get to the playoffs and they're the best team in the country. Obviously the Michigan game and the motivation there. But I think it was a really like smart foresight that a lot of other head coaches probably didn't see and maybe that's his NFL background. And then this year, like you guys said, the off season I think was good. You know, I think you had to give Brian Hartline this opportunity, whether or not you thought he was the best guy out there because you risk losing him otherwise. And he brings a lot to the table and we'll see how that ends up. But the way that he has managed the expectations and the week to week approach has been the most impressive thing for me because it's easy coming off of any sort of championship to just sort of ride that wave.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah.

[Patrick Murphy]

And you know, even starting at Big Ten media days, maybe even before that, he's talking about we're not defending a national championship. The players have that approach of like, we didn't win anything. Even some of the guys who did win things and every week they, they come out and you know, maybe it's not the fastest starts, but it's consistent. And you know, we haven't seen that let down game where maybe they win but they don't look good and they're just better than the other team all that much. I mean, maybe the Illinois game is the closest to that, but it's just, it's just this consistency that you don't always see from, from, you know, think about that 2015 team under urban Meyer. And like, every week it's like, well, they're so good, but they didn't play that great. Right. And now that this team's coming out and they're number one in the country because they actually deserve it, not because they are the defending national champions. And I think that's a big credit to Ryan Day.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

All right, Landis, you want to change to a minus just to be cool? Are you good with your A?

[Bill Landis]

No, I'm sticking with my A. Yeah, look at you.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

And I can. Now, Landis is going to preface his question on Tuesday with Ryan, I gave you an A. Andy Patton, Doug gave you a. Anyway, here's my question. Why are you so great at your job, Landis? Question number three here on around the Shoe. We're halfway through the regular season. Who's a young player you'd like to see a little bit more of in the second half of the year?

[Bill Landis]

Mylan Graham. He has played 65 snaps this year. They've targeted him once and it was in the first game. And he's been on the field like the last few games. It's not just that he's playing garbage time. He played eight snaps against Illinois. He played 16 against Minnesota, but some of those were early before the game was a blowout. He played five against Washington. So, like, they're getting him out there, but the ball is not coming his way because the ball is going to Jeremiah Smith and Cardinal Tate a lot, which, which is not a bad thing. But I, I just don't think the slot receiver position when they are playing in 11 personnel with three receivers has been a plus for Ohio State this year. And it should be. I was looking at some of the stuff on PFF. So there are 271 Power 4 receivers who have at least 10 targets this year.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

And among those 271, Brandon Ennis is 242nd in yards per route run less than a yard. It's bad. They just like, they don't throw in the ball a lot. But even when they do, like there's, there's just not much of an impact there. And I would at least like to see what it looks like if they throw the ball Myelin Graham's way a couple of times. I think he's a really talented young receiver. He's obviously a five star prospect. We, we've only really seen him in like practice and like in the spring game. Obviously he was very. But that's, you can only take so much out of, out of a spring game. I understand that. But just based on the fact that like there's not much else happening at that slot receiver position, I don't, I don't think it would hurt to try it out. Like if Brandon Ennis were just a dynamite blocker every time he was out there, I would get it. But that's not really been the case and he doesn't do a whole lot as a pass catcher. So in the name of maybe trying to take a little bit of pressure off of Jeremiah and Carnell and obviously Max player can be a part of that. I, I wouldn't mind seeing someone else get a few targets at the slot receiver position just to see what it looked like whether that was Mylan Graham or Bryson Ro.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Interesting. And, and I said young player in the question. Doesn't have to be a young player. Says maybe a guy who hasn't done a lot yet that you'd like to see do more in the second half. We certainly have seen this history, Landis, of their receivers that pop in the second half of the year for Ohio State. That's not an unheard of thing. I don't know about this pick, but I'm going to say Isaiah west at running back as another true freshman with Bo Jackson. Isaiah west is listed at 5:10,210. James Peoples is 5:10,206. We just continue to have the conversation about are the back breaking up enough tackles, doing enough on their own. Bo Jackson, when he's healthy, does that. James Peoples now seems like the number two back. If C.J. donaldson's more like a short yardage guy, I don't know. It can be very easy to be like put the freshman in and then there's all those other things that go into playing running back. But I wonder a little bit that if, if you're getting to a spot where Cooley Bo Jackson is RB1, but he's not going to get every single carry. And when you hand the ball to somebody else besides him, you'd like to see something pop a little bit. I wonder about it. And to little more action. They're going to have some possible blowout games here in the back half of the season with Rutgers and UCLA and Purdue and Penn State, frankly. I mean, put 70 on Penn State, I don't know. I'm. I'M I'm not, like, pounding the table for it, but I'm potentially curious about it. If could he get to the point where he's actually a guy you could put in a game, in a playoff game and could give you a series. Pat Murphy, who's the person you'd like to see more of?

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, I'm in a similar vein as Bill, but I would like them to just use Brandon Innis more effectively. And maybe, maybe the answer is, you know, that he's not getting it done. And you do give some snaps to Myelin Graham, because I do agree with Bill, like, that position isn't being used the way that Ohio State has used it in the past. You know, Innis so far this season has played all six games. He's up there in snaps. He has 12 targets and 11 receptions. So, you know, whether it, you know, you could go back and look at every single snap and see, is he open, is he not? Think about some of the. The handoff stuff that they've done, you know, in Motion to Jeremiah. Well, a Mecca used to do that.

[Andy Anders]

Right.

[Patrick Murphy]

We've seen other slot receivers use that. Like, I just like to see him get more involved. I think that there's a player there. Right. We know that. We've seen it in bits and pieces. He was, you know, involved even last year when he wasn't playing as much. I just don't know why they haven't. And maybe it's as simple as these other two receivers are just that good, and maybe his time will come next year. But I. I think you've got a guy on the field already who's playing a lot of snaps, who can be a weapon for you. And, you know, I understand the ball's not going to go to him every play, but I think that he can be utilized better going forward.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah, hiding in plain sight. That's a really interesting answer, Mr. Murphy. Andy, who you got?

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, just to talk a little more on that, I. I also think Innis has done, like. I feel like there's times when he's open and he hasn't necessarily gotten the ball. Whether that's because Julian just didn't see him. If he was at some other place in the progression, I think, especially like when I went back and looked at the Ohio game, I haven't really had a chance to watch this tape yet, but.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

What are you doing? Well, you should have said, you can't do the show. You got to watch tape. What are you doing? You got to do your job. Warriors people after us Andy, around the shoe is not your priority. All right, so you watched six hours of film this morning and you're gonna watch another. Just pretend you said that.

[Andy Anders]

Exactly. That's exactly right. Exactly right. But I, I do felt like watching the game. There were a couple times Brandon was open and didn't necessarily get the ball. I think there's been opportunities. I'm gonna go. Mylan is a guy I'd like to see more of just because of how exciting he's looked, the opportunities he got in the spring game. But I'm gonna go defense and say Riley Pettajohn and it's very hard, it's very hard. With Ohio State has the best linebacker tandem in the country. Peyton Pierce has done a good job as that number three guy. But the chances, the times we've gotten to see Riley Pettigon, man, he looks fantastic, like extremely, like, versatile, good athlete out there. Love how he moves around the field. I don't know how the opportunities are necessarily going to come because of those other three guys that are ahead of him, but he is someone I want to see more of just because of how talented he is, how athletic he is, the mentality he plays with. He's got a very downhill, like, hard hitting style. It's fun to watch when he's out there. So I, I, I'd like to see more of them, even if I don't know how that's going to happen.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Okay. Did Pat, anything on Isaiah West? Does anybody like that?

[Andy Anders]

No.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Does that feel like not, not a thing.

[Patrick Murphy]

Look, if you need to get this run game going, I, and if, if it means playing two freshman running backs because they're the best options, I have no issue with that. If they can hold on to the ball and they can pass protect, it's just, you know, Ryan Day keeps using the word solid or, or similar words when we ask him about the running game. And I can't imagine that's how he's really feeling because we all see it, right? So, you know, you have to identify everything and, and eventually you're going to need to run the ball. Like, think about the fourth quarter of that Texas game where Texas scores the touchdown. I think Ohio State goes three and out. Like, if you had confidence in your run game, you just run the ball like you did against Penn State last year and you know, you end that game right there. They, they did not. So that's, that's going to be a factor at some point, whether it be in the regular season, against Michigan, playoff, whatever. You're going to need to be able to either run the ball to to try and score or help you run out the clock. And I'm perfectly okay with giving some other guys some options because outside of Bo Jackson and CJ Donaldson those short yardage, it hasn't worked for for one reason or another.

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[Doug Lay Maurice]

All right, question number four is like what percent does the four does the losing streak to Michigan for Ohio State hangover this season? And and I'm asking this like because sometimes I felt it in you're just writing about or talking about like how well this team is playing number one team in the country. And then it's like, well you know, you gotta always like throw in the caveat. And we know they got to beat Michigan. They haven't beat Michigan. That's the thing. But it it can throw like a monkey wrench into a situation when it feels like so many other things are going right. It it hangs over this season 60%. And I will say that's because I think it's hung over 30% so far and I think it's going to hang over 90% the rest of this regular season. Because again, just double checking this, there are five teams that are OH and three in conference play and Ohio State plays four of them the rest of the year. Wisconsin, Penn State, Purdue And Rutgers are all 03. UCLA is 2 and 1 in the Big Ten. And then Michigan's 2 and 1 in the Big Ten. So like UCLA's. And UCLA lost all three non conference games. So when you take Penn State out of like, oh man, like Penn State was a targeted thing. If that's not that, there's going to be a lot of folks thinking about Michigan because I don't know, you're gonna be like, I don't know. Barry Odom, watch out for the Boilermakers. Nico Yamaliava, he's rejuvenated. UCLA is on for real.

[Bill Landis]

Or we can underestimate ucla. All right, Michigan State, how they're feeling?

[Doug Lay Maurice]

More brewing. But my God, they're not going to send you a rollback sweatshirt for UCLA just because you said don't underestimate them.

[Patrick Murphy]

They might.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I, I, I just, I think it's, I, I think it hasn't, to me, it hasn't been ton so far. I think we're about to get to the point where it's hard to avoid talking about Michigan almost every day. So, Pat, where are you? What percent does the Mission game hang over this Ohio State season?

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, I would be, I'm a little less than you and I think it depends on the perspective. So for us, you're right, we're going to talk about it a lot because I don't think these games are going to, to present a lot of conversation, a lot of challenges in terms of what we're talking about from Ohio State. Like, you have to have your Michigan periods. You have to do that. But like I said earlier, I think they've done such a good job of the next game is the most important game type of approach this season, then I think they will be focused on it. So from our perspective, I'd say roughly around 50%. Like they've got to get over this hump. And I, I know it doesn't necessarily mean national championship or, or not anymore. You know, they could do what they did last year and still win and everyone's happy in the off season, but you don't want that hanging over your head if you're a Buckeye fan. I saw it on social media. I saw it from the Michigan fans that I know when I would see them, they talk about, hey, you know, you, you guys talking to Ohio State fans, you won national championship. We went 130 or whatever it was and then won our national championship. And you just don't want that to be a thing. And so I think it is. You know, you have to, you have to get there and you have to get there hopefully undefeated. But I Think you also, you know, have to take that approach of week in and week out. I will say if Michigan were playing better, maybe it's a bigger part of the conversation too. Like, I didn't really see any of the game on Saturday. We listened to it in the car on the way back, but it, it sounded like USC had had a lot of control in that game. So like if Michigan, even if they weren't winning, we're, we're losing some close ones, things like that. And, and you know, you had more to worry about at the end of the season. But I do think it's, it's still that, that sort of dark cloud, like you were saying, that's hanging over them and if they can get over that hump, even if you don't win a national championship, you make a run in the playoff. Like, this is a pretty successful season with a young team and Ryan Day has the monkey office back.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Andy, what percent are you?

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, I think it, the thing is like, I think it spiked up this week because you're through. Like you said, the toughest game. That was kind of like maybe you had some anxiety about going in. If you're an Ohio State fan and you used to have Penn State later in the schedule to do that. Now you've seen them lose to UCLA in Northwestern and back to back weeks and their head coaches fired and their backup quarter that their backup, their starting quarterback is out for the season. Like, I, I think if you would ask me last week I would have said like 25. You're fresh off a national championship. There's other challenges ahead. Now it is like I'm with Pat at 50. Like it is a huge monkey on the back of this program. It is something that, you know, it's still kind of loomed in the distance. It's kind of been that one shadow in the back. And not to say it like lessened to the national championship at all, but it was like, you know, there was that feeling of like, you did it, but you didn't beat Michigan during the season. And maybe that's just a new feeling, right? But it's, it's just something where there was so much emotion baked into it too, because of all the Connor Stallion stuff. And what. There's a certain, I think a certain feeling of like, righteous, like justice that the fan base wants from the rivalry game that they didn't get last year, Ike, especially when you were such a big favorite at home. So to me, it kicked up a lot this week because of what happened with Penn State and You look at these next five games, and not that you're taking any of them for. For granted, necessarily, especially, like, you know, underestimate UCLA at your own peril, like you said, the way they're playing right now. But for me, I think when you look at talking about the fan base, talking about just kind of the general feeling around the program, not necessarily in it, but around it. I'm at 50.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

All right, landis, where are you?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, you guys are all nuts. It's a billion percent. Like, what do you mean?

[Andy Anders]

It's like.

[Bill Landis]

What are you. What are you talking about?

[Andy Anders]

They've lost foreign.

[Bill Landis]

Like, to the extent that something hangs over the season, this is the only thing that hangs over the season. What are you going to hold him to win another national championship standard or be mad about it. It's beat Michigan. That's the only thing that defines this season. And, like, if Penn State were still good, I guess it'd be only a million percent, but since Penn State sucks, it's a billion percent. They have not lost five straight in this rivalry since the 1920s. Like, they have to win this game. What do you mean? Everything, Anders, Everything you said about it, how important this is, and out hangs over everything. And they said 50. No, it's 100. If you want to actually keep it within the actual realm of real math, it's 100, but it's actually a billion percent because it's the rivalry, and that's what it deserves.

[Patrick Murphy]

Okay.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Did he just blow us out of the water? Andy was like, is that the right answer? And the three of us were drunk for a minute there.

[Andy Anders]

I. I think I. I think I might have. I think I needed to take a breathalyzer test maybe. I think Bill maybe sobered me up a little bit.

[Bill Landis]

It's not just you. It's all of you. It's all of you.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

I think it's 30 now. It's 60 now. Well, maybe it's. No, it's the only thing that was well articulated.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah. Officer Landis set us straight, Pat. Now I feel terrible. I feel like we should edit this whole segment out because Landis yelled at us.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, let's. Let's start over. We'll start over.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Is it a billion, or is it 2 billion?

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, I think. I mean, look, Bill. I think Bill took what we said and emphasized it the way that the Buckeyes need to emphasize. Emphasize this game.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah.

[Patrick Murphy]

Right. It's a. It's a can't lose. And so. Yeah, I don't. I don't really have much else to say on the topic. I think they'll just put us all in our place.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Oh, my God. Landis, you were so happy you went last on that question. You were just setting us up.

[Bill Landis]

I couldn't believe what I was hearing. I couldn't believe.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

46. I think it's 46.3%. Landis is like, you just wait. I'm going to destroy you. All right, I would like to confer briefly. Pat and Andy, if you could give us a minute, I would like to confer with Bill Landis, the chief content officer of the Bill and Doug show. Bill, I sent an Ohio State basketball question to everybody for question five, but there's something that I'm noticing that the four of us have in common that I perhaps would like to pivot to. Do you know what it is that I might be noticing about the four people on the show? The four handsome men on this show have.

[Bill Landis]

We all have beards.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Do we want to make this beard talk instead of basketball talk? Because I've never been part of beard talk before.

[Bill Landis]

Sure.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Permission.

[Bill Landis]

I was to make it. I was going to defer to these two guys on basketball talk anyway, because I don't know. Like, I don't.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

I was trying to figure out the other day if I can name one player in the Big Ten that's not on Ohio State's roster, and I couldn't. So.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Okay. Andy, would you rather talk about basketball or beards?

[Andy Anders]

I mean, I'll. I'll talk about beards. I'll join in. Beard gang. I, too, am a rare member of beard gang, you know. Okay, this is.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

What.

[Andy Anders]

What are we talking about?

[Doug Lay Maurice]

All right, so, Pat. Pat, are you good with beard talk instead of basketball talk?

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if you guys have ever seen me without facial hair, so.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah. So. Okay. All right. We're doing beard talk. So. Ohio State basketball, by the way, was ninth in the Big Ten preseason poll conducted by our friend Adam Jardi and. And some others.

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[Doug Lay Maurice]

Beard talk. I don't usually have a beard. I have one for the moment. Patrick Murphy, how long have you had a beard and what is your best beard tip?

[Patrick Murphy]

Ooh, beard tip. I'll think about that. I've had a beard since roughly eighth grade, more or less. I had a teacher early in high school who was also the cheerleading coach. I just saw her at a game the other day. She's still working. That would yell at me because I would come in with facial hair. I went to a public school. This isn't like private school where they can tell you to. To have your hair a certain length or whatnot. But she would, every day when she would see me, she'd be like, you need to shave that off. Like, you're too young to have that much facial hair. So it grew in early in. During COVID I don't know if you guys remember this. I let my beard grow to about.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I remember.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. I just didn't grow. I think it was like eight, nine months. I just let it grow. It was absurd. I also grew my hair out. No one noticed that because the beard was so long. Having good beard oil, if you're gonna have like a real beard is crucial. And I learned a lot about beard grooming and just like how to apply the beard oil with a coat, like a beard comb and all that. So if you're gonna really grow it, not just, you know, we all have some facial hair, but we're not going like long beards. But if you're gonna do that, you got to take care of it. You got to get the right stuff.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Can I say that when I was in eighth grade, the cheerleader coach yelled at me for growing a beard is quite a flex.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah. The facial hair started growing in very early. I remember my dad, like trying to show me how to shave and being like, I don't. I didn't Think we'd have this conversation for like, two or three more years?

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Wow, what a manly beard story. This is what we're talking about on Beer Talk. That's so good. All right, Andy Anders, what's your beard story? And do you have any beard tips?

[Andy Anders]

So, beard story. Yeah, I really, honestly, the first time I grew one out, it took me a while to get, like, facial hair that looked okay, you know, like I was not an early bloomer like Pat. It really took until college until I could, like, grow anything that, like, resembled a decent beard. It really became the first time I grew one out. It was like a no shave November thing in college, and I. I didn't do as good a job. Like, it was really just kind of a chin strap and a neck beard, and it didn't look that good. I don't know if I'd say I love neck beards, but so I had that, and then I would shave it off and I kind of like, this is probably the most manicured, like, well, kind of lined up beard I've ever had. I just, like, a lot of times it'll just, like, I'll forget to shave for a week or two, and then I'm like, I'll just grow a beard now, you know? But this, I. I think for me, what was important is figuring out my neckline. So what I think looks good for me is, like, down here past my sideburns, there will be a, like, where it stops coming in, and I'll just cut it all the way across. Right where that. Right where it stops coming in on the sides.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

If you're listening on the podcast, Andy just tilted his head, like, all the way to the side and got very descriptive with pointing at his neck. So that was very good. So you do. You are aware of, like, down below making sure you don't got stragglers.

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, exactly. And so. And then I'll clean up the cheeks a little bit so that, like, anywhere where it's not thick, I'll trim it off. If I could ever pull off a mustache, just a mustache, I think I would try to, but there's like a part right in the middle of my mustache that wouldn't look good if it was just the mustache.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

He's a fake hair. Get some fake hair in there. Okay.

[Patrick Murphy]

And to tell the story, Andy, tell the story where you only shaved half your face. Come on.

[Andy Anders]

Oh, yeah, that. So one time, Pat and I. There's a basketball availability. I think it was actually an open practice, right? We were watching a practice. Yeah, I think it was in. It was in the shot on the, like, home gym floor. And I was, like, in a rush to get over there, and I had shaved half my face and forgotten to do the other half. And so I. I came there. Luckily, it was still pretty short at that point, but, like, I pointed it out to Pat and he was like, oh, wow. Yeah, that's. It was pretty funny.

[Patrick Murphy]

It was incredible.

[Andy Anders]

It was. Half my face was unshaven and half was.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I think you need to set alarms on your phone about shaving. There's a lot of forgetting that's going on here. One time when Pat Murphy was in third grade, he forgot to shave for a week and he looked like. So, like, you gotta have a good plan. Landis, how long have you had a beard? What's your beard tip?

[Bill Landis]

I've probably had it steadily for about 10 years, I would say.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I didn't.

[Bill Landis]

I wasn't allowed to grow one in high school. I went to an all boys Catholic high school, so we're not allowed to have facial hair. But I don't even know back then if I could. I don't think I started shaving early until I was in college and then in college when I did start to grow it out. Like, my. My mustache does not grow as thick nor at the same rate as my beard. So for a while, and this is.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

It was a.

[Bill Landis]

It was a bad look. I would shave my mustache, but not my beard. So I was looking. I was looking rather Amish for quite some time, even like when I first started [e-mail]. i think if you go look at some of those, like, early videos we did, I'm pretty sure I have a beard but no mustache. It looks ridiculous. So, like, I still can't grow a great mustache, but I at least let it grow out enough so that, like, you know, I don't look like a fool. But my biggest problem is, like, I've never really been able to get it to connect here. Like, true, true goatee style. But we kind of. We kind of deal with whatever genetics we've been dealt. But yeah, I've had. It's been longer than this. I have at times had it shorter than this, mostly by accident. If I, like, accidentally, if I'm doing it myself and I accidentally go too low, then I have to, like, make the whole thing match. But this is about where I like to keep it. It's a. It's a little longer on the chin. I think Pat is, is right about getting some beard oil. I use some beard balm. I Brush it every day. I think the biggest tip I would give someone is like, yeah, like. And you guys kind of all hit on this is like, sort of just, like, understand how your facial hair grows, right? Like, understand what length works best for your face. Because I've grown my beard out, like, super bushy at times. And, like, it looks. It looks. It's just not a good look. So, like, a little tighter for me, I think works better. But for other people, I've seen, like, the longer look look really good. And then, yeah, groom it. Like, like, like groom it as if, like, the same way you do your hair. Like, don't, don't. Don't just let it grow and then ignore it. Because then you start looking like a homeless guy about.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

That's too much. All right, I've had a beard.

[Bill Landis]

No, it's a great look for you today.

[Andy Anders]

It looks fantastic.

[Patrick Murphy]

Keep it. Doug, I gotta.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I haven't groomed.

[Andy Anders]

Don't leave Beard Gang. You just joined.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

I know, I know. That's why I had to take advantage today. Well, I appreciate you guys welcoming me into Beard Gang. And so maybe when we go, like, on Wednesday night interviews, let's have all the beard people stand together.

[Patrick Murphy]

Hey, Doug, can I add one thing?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Patrick Murphy]

I will say, because you both, both Andy and Bill said, you know, it doesn't grow here. It does go here. It makes. It makes it sound like I was at an advantage here. I want to say, as an eighth grader with a full beard or having to try and shave, like, weekly was quite the undertaking. And not the most exciting thing.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Like.

[Patrick Murphy]

Like I had people, not just the cheerleading coach, but other people, like, friends of mine that gave, you know, gave me stuff for. For having a beard so early. And then the. The, you know, trying to figure out the shaving process as a kid. So it wasn't all, you know, wasn't all great to have that. That starting early. I don't make it sound like I was bragging there, because I definitely wasn't.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I like the image of Pat just, like, going around, around Halloween time with a full beer.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Trick or treat.

[Patrick Murphy]

But that's the thing. Like, that was the thing. Like, I'm not tall and my voice hadn't dropped, so I'm like, you know, it wasn't like I was completely through puberty. I just, for whatever reason, had facial hair before most people, so I was like this, you know, 11 year old with facial hair and everything else was. Was normal. And I was shorter than everyone else.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

My God, this is like an after school Special. The boy with the 8th grade beard. This is, this is like, it's, it's inspiring. It's a little like there's, there's some growth in here. There's like, some adversity. I would watch that show. Gentlemen, thanks for joining us here on around the Shoe and talking about beards and the Buckeyes. Pat Murphy, where can the folks find you? You got anything popping coming up over there? Buck Nuts.

[Patrick Murphy]

Yeah, over buck nuts 247 sports. We, I, I'm not gonna prop up anything I'm doing, but we did just hire Garrett Hodge from Andy's eleven warriors. And I do want to say he's. No offense, Andy, you can tune this out, but he's killing it. So if you're looking for recruiting coverage, he has done a great job stepping in for the soon retiring Bill Kerlick. So props to Garrick and, yeah, feel free to come. Come check out his work.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Wow, I didn't know Landis. We're gonna have a little, like, Lions, Chiefs postgame brawl here. Andy's gonna give Pat a swat in the side of the head. It was taking one of his guys.

[Patrick Murphy]

I believe it was amicable. The, the move. Andy. Andy and Garrick and Dan Hope seem to be all good. He seemed to be good. So I felt comfortable saying that while Andy was on the show.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Well, I, I would say if for some reason it wasn't amicable, it would be the first time. It would be the first time ever on the Ohio State beat. That stuff got weird. Andy, where can the folks find you?

[Andy Anders]

Yeah, I'm on eleven warriors. As previously mentioned. I, you know, our stuff is, is free a lot of. And, you know, I, I love what I do. I love that a lot of people read what I do. I won't like Pat. I'll take the. I'll take the time to prop up what other people are doing. Dan, help. Who's been on this show before? Who is our other football beat reporter there at eleven Warriors? Uh, he's got his weekly Big Ten power rankings coming up, so if, uh, any of you are interested in seeing where his take on where some teams fall, there might be some placements that shock you in there.

[Bill Landis]

Can I give a shout out to Dan, by the way, because didn't he put Penn State last before they lost Northwestern?

[Andy Anders]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Andy Anders]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

He knows ball. That guy Dan is.

[Andy Anders]

Dan is certainly a ball knower and one of the hardest working people in the game. I've learned a lot working with him, so always want to shout out what he does. And our recruiting coverage has. Is lessened now that we don't have Garrick. But I'm glad he's. It was, I think, like, I'm rooting for him. We're still like, no, there's no bad blood there at all. Like, okay, Goodwill. And I love.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

Yeah.

[Andy Anders]

No, he's. He's a good friend, and I'm glad that he's doing well with Buck Nuts.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

So. So, Landis, Pat and Andy had really nice things to say about co workers. You want to. You want to throw anything in here?

[Bill Landis]

You have a great beard. You should keep it.

[Doug Lay Maurice]

All right. Landis keeps me alive. Pat and Andy, thank you both for being here. On around the Shoe. Every week we find two great people from this robust, energetic Ohio State beat. We're so grateful, you guys, for taking time out of your day. We're grateful to you guys for joining us here every Monday. For now. For Patrick Murphy, for Andy Anders, for Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lay. Maurice. And that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug.