← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State football natty or men's basketball Sweet 16 -- which comes first? Around the Shoe
00:58:10
It's an Ohio State football and men's basketball conversation on this edition of Around the Shoe, as Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by two great media guests on The Bill and Doug Show. Steve Helwagen of Bucknuts.com and Blake Biscardi of The Silver Bulletin swing by to join Bill and Doug.
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- [00:00]
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- [00:59]
Bill Landis
foreign
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Doug Lay Maurice
welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lan Reese and Bill Landis joined every week by two outstanding media members from the Ohio State beat. This week, two returning guests, Hellwagen and Blake Biscardi, Steve Hellwig and of Bucknuts.com Steve, thanks as always for your time, brother.
- [01:19]
Steve Hellwagon
Yep. Great to be here.
- [01:20]
Doug Lay Maurice
And Blake Biscardi, thanks for deciding to come back. You could have fled, man, but you decided to to do it again.
- [01:26]
Blake Biscardi
Never passing up an opportunity. Doug, I appreciate you and Bill having me back.
- [01:29]
Doug Lay Maurice
All right, so we're going to do men's basketball and football on this episode. As we know, Ohio State men's basketball in the NCAA tournament on Thursday. We got some folks on this panel who will be making their way to Greenville, South Carolina for that. But we're going to start with football. Ohio State on a break this week on spring break, and it just like timed out perfectly. Football's taking a little break. No football practices like, hey, basketball's here and they're actually in the tournament. But football will start with you, Steve. Steve, after we all got to watch two practices last week, what position group for the Ohio State Buckeyes football team interested you the most after getting your eyeballs on spring practice? Maybe because it's so good, maybe because it's so questionable, maybe because it surprised you, something about it, the, the position group that caught your eye, Steve?
- [02:19]
Steve Hellwagon
I would say running back and offensive line and those kind of go hand in hand. And I was only at the first practice because I was in Chicago for the Big Ten tournament for the second one on Thursday. But I just look at running back. And you don't have Bo Jackson, you don't have Isaiah West. And so what you have is a transfer from Florida, Jacoby Jackson, with very few miles on his tread. He hasn't played a lot of college football. And then you have obviously, the freshman favor, a key. He's there. Other true freshman legend day is there. And so, yeah, I want to see what those guys who've never really played football, Ohio State before, what they can do. Offensive line, they say, oh, we've got all this depth and whatever, but it's largely the same group of people that failed the last two games last year. And I'm. They didn't go out and get anybody that's a future NFL player out of the portal like they have in the past, like Josh. Jimmy Simmons came in there a year or two ago and, you know, ended up getting drafted. So kind of a weird situation there there, like. Like they think they're okay there, but are they really okay there? Because they certainly didn't get the job done the last two games and they want to run it back with basically the same five people. I know Chipotle is gone, so either they're going to put Ian Moore in there or Padilla or Van Sickle at guard. So, you know, what's it going to be? I. I don't know. They better be a lot better than they showed in the two matchup games, that's for sure.
- [03:51]
Doug Lay Maurice
I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, bring us some heat about the O line here. Let's go. Let's have a football conversation.
- [03:58]
Steve Hellwagon
Well, I. I think we all watch those two games and I. I don't think. I don't think they're bad players or anything like that. I don't think it was bad scheme. I think it was a case of where everybody had been lulled into believing that this team had arrived because they. Just because they were 12 and. Oh, but it was probably the easiest 120 Ohio State's ever gotten to out of the very few 120 seasons they've ever. Not many challenges in there. So I think it came back to bite him in the end.
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Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah. I'll be curious to see where everybody else goes. So, Blake, we'll move to you. What's your answer here position group?
- [04:34]
Blake Biscardi
I think for the offensive line, for sure that one has the most interest because it was the one that failed Ohio State. You're watching the wide receivers and you're saying, okay, there's a lot of skill there. But then for me, the position group I want to focus on is a defensive line. You know, last year you're seeing the pass rushes. Your two best pass rushers were linebackers. And now this year you're seeing you bring in Quay Russo and James Smith. You have Kenyatta Jackson and Edric Houston back. Can a guy like Jason Moore make a jump? You have Zion Grady. He might be a breakout watch candidate. Can your best pass rusher come from your defensive line? And can that defensive line begin to take over football games again? And I think that's going to be really important for Ohio State this year because you're going to have some newish faces at lineback. You're bringing in a transfer, but you have some experience there. But if you can get pressure with four, I think that's going to be really important. This defense, with all the new faces that they have to bring in, even though there's experience and talent, you just have new faces going to take a minute for it to gel. So if that defensive line can get after, it's going to help out the defense.
- [05:31]
Doug Lay Maurice
And Blake, you think about what we thought Kaden Curry was or maybe what we assumed about him a year ago at this time, and then the kind of season that he had, and you look and I think, wouldn't you say there are guys and you sort of said it. There are guys where that's possible. You just don't maybe know exactly. Blake, like, who it might be that really makes the jump when it comes to getting after the quarterback.
- [05:52]
Blake Biscardi
Right. Like that entire defensive line, it's like everyone's a ball of potential energy, but which one's going to start rolling down the hill the fastest and then just break out or flash or say, you know what? I'm going to get after the quarterback and have three sacks in the first four games. There's so much potential on defensive line, so much skill, and there's some really talented pass rushers there. Yeah. Yeah.
- [06:12]
Doug Lay Maurice
All right, Landis, what you got?
- [06:15]
Bill Landis
I think I'm D line as well. Not. Not to echo a lot of what Blake said, but. But I. I do think that's an interesting spot because I don't. I think maybe every other position, I could tell you who I think the best guy is going to be in that group. And I don't know that I can tell you that about the defensive line right now. Certainly there are guys who are higher up on that list. Like Kenyatta. Jackson is back for a fifth year, and I think he'd be a lot of people's pick. Edric Houston has a lot of potential as a former five star guy, but Edric's sophomore season was probably not quite as good as he thought it was going to be. And Kenyatta Jackson is a, is a really high floor player, but I don't know exactly what, what the ceiling is there either. So, so he's a little, little hard to pin down. And I think early spring oftentimes you get a lot of the starters like in air quotes are just sort of the guys who are back from the previous year. And I do think we've seen a decent amount of that through these first two practices. But, but maybe the spot where that's, you know, most likely to change as we move forward is probably on the defensive line with, with some of the experience transfers that have been brought in. So I don't know that I have a great feel for who the first four guys on the field are going to be against Texas. I don't know who their best guy is. As I said, like, I don't say that in a way that I'm concerned about anything. I just think it makes them probably the most interesting position group because Ryan Day was running through some groups on Tuesday and you know, he described the quite a few of them as deep, including the offensive line. But I don't, I don't recall him saying about the defensive line. I think like a lot of us, he's interested in that group to, to see what, what shakes out there. And I do think they're going to be a pretty good defensive line. But, but I wonder, you know, exactly what is the full potential of that group if everything clicks Because I do think it could be quite high. But, but you're also asking quite a few guys to, you know, take a rather large step forward for, for that to happen. So I think it's going to be a fun spring to watch that shake out. But, but through first two practices I'm, that's going to look like you want,
- [08:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
you want to, you want to, you want to chime in here. Philly Billy on, on Steve Hellwagon's view of the offensive line because yeah, I feel like you and I, when we have our conversation about the offensive line are sort of like, yeah, like everybody's back. I think, I think this offensive line will be pretty good and we'll take a step. But I also, I don't disagree with what Steve said.
- [08:28]
Bill Landis
I don't disagree with it either. I think, I think two things can be true, right. There's sort of a reasonable expectation of growth year over year. That most college football players make. And if you say to yourself, well, a lot of the guys who were starting on the offensive line last year were kind of doing it for the first time that they should be better this year. And I kind of, I kind of get that line of thinking and I don't know that there was, you know, a slam dunk upgrade that Ohio State was going to be willing to pay for to get out of the portal this off season. And, and if you go like guy by guy, you know, there's reason to think Austin Serial to be better, Luke Montgomery be better, Carson Hinsman can be better. You kind of got rid of the weekly get right guard there. And then they have some guys who have been in the program for a long time that should be stepping up to help fill that void. Like Ian Moore, I thought, played well when he was on the field last year. Right. So there are reasons to be, I guess, like, optimistic about that group. But at the same time, Ohio State is asking us to put a lot of confidence in a position group that wasn't good enough last year and a position coach who didn't do a good enough job last year to get his guys ready. And, and I, I do agree with Steve that there was probably a false sense of confidence there. And I think it stemmed primarily from the Michigan game because they did push Michigan around. But Michigan also had a bad defensive line. So. And like, we. That wasn't discussed, I think enough in the aftermath of that game. And I'm probably guilty of that as well, because you don't want to say like, yeah, it was great, but Michigan's not that good because everyone's so excited that Ohio State finally won that game for the first time in four years. And that's fine to be excited about it, but I do think it put two position groups, frankly, offensive line and tight end, in a spot where people, I think, started believing that those two groups were significantly better than they actually were given Michigan's deficiencies last year.
- [10:15]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah.
- [10:16]
Doug Lay Maurice
Steve, do you, do you have questions about Tyler Bowen as no. Line coach, as part of this at all?
- [10:22]
Steve Hellwagon
Oh, man, he's got a lot of experience doing this. And these players did help Ohio State win the national championship the year before. I mean, some of them subbed in there at the end of the season and so there's experience there. Question about Bowen? Well, he was brought in to be like a run game coordinator and there wasn't much going on there and the offensive line just, you know, could not do their job in the, in the last two games. Now, granted, the guys they were going against, I ran into several of them at the NFL combine. So, yeah, that's true. I think several of those cats from Indiana and Miami are going to be playing on Sundays here in the next few years. But I think that had an impact on this as well. But I, I'd say the jury's out on him. I mean, one year, I, I, I don't, I'm not going to throw, you know, somebody aside after one, you know, tough year. I want to see again what, what it looks like going forward. And the thing is, is they brought Arthur Smith in here now to really get the running game going. So if he can't get it done, then, then I don't know. At that point, I guess you punt. I punt a lot.
- [11:43]
Blake Biscardi
I don't
- [11:45]
Steve Hellwagon
that.
- [11:45]
Doug Lay Maurice
I think it's a, it feels, I do feel like they have what they need, but I don't know that. I think we have to be careful of assuming too much, that that means it's going to be great. But I, but I, so I really, I think it does. It comes back a lot on the coach then, I think, because it's like, oh, well, it's like they're, the ingredients are there and there's some veteran ingredients, as you said, Steve, but they also have to take a step. So I do. It continues to be an interesting position to watch, which is why we're talking about it. I'll say receiver, because I really just am intrigued now. If Chris Henry Jr. Feels like mostly Jeremiah Smith's backup at X and if Brandon is going to be in the slot, maybe Philip Bella work in there. I'm just potentially intrigued by if, if this Z receiver spot between two transfers in Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker and a true freshman and Jaquade and Guilford. If, like, that's going to be a dog fight. If, if, and if that is something where Cortez Hankton's gonna decide, we're gonna play two there, we're gonna play three. We're gonna slide somebody over to X and get him some sn. Those guys is going to slide in the slot and get some snaps within us. But, like, do all three of those guys prove they belong on the field? Does somebody sees the job and then another guy fades to the point where he barely plays at all? I don't know, Blake, like, I'm intrigued by that because I think those are three very interesting players, one of whom is, is one. We're used to seeing a talented true freshman and the other two are guys we're not used to singing. The Ohio State receiver room, which is transfers. And I don't know, if you asked me like right now, who do you think is going to be the best team Z receiver, get the most snaps, be the most productive? I don't know what I would answer because I think all three are possible and I'm super interested, like to see how that shakes out, you know? You know what I'm saying?
- [13:28]
Blake Biscardi
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. I actually spent more time looking at the receivers and watching them than I planned to on Thursday because I was having the same debate with myself. It's the first time we're seeing transfer receivers. Chris Henry Jr. Carries so much intrigue. And how do these transfer receivers look with Ohio State athletes? Like there's a difference. Like you're bringing somebody in from the sec, you're bringing somebody in from a smaller school and you're bringing in a true freshman. That's three great evaluators against your own talent. Plus you have Jeremiah Smith there. What do they look like? And it. That was almost 15 minutes. I'm just having this debate watching the reps, their speed, their get off so many different things that you can evaluate there. And I know it's shorter drills, but there is a lot of intrigue there because which guy's going to step up and separate and is that going to happen by the end of spring ball or is it going to take until fall camp or is it going to be a committee? You know, there's all three of those possibilities.
- [14:19]
Doug Lay Maurice
Or is it going to be in September it's this guy and by November it's this guy.
- [14:23]
Blake Biscardi
Right.
- [14:23]
Doug Lay Maurice
Which I think is. Is possible too. Right. That I. Maybe it'll take real game action to help them sort out who the real dude is there. Okay, let's move to a freshman question and we might talk about a couple guys we already talked about. Blake, we'll start with you. Which true freshman? Again, we saw two practices, so we have a complete understanding of the Ohio State football team from two hour long viewing sessions of practice. Which true freshman will have the biggest impact this season other than legend Bay? Because we just cannot have every show that we do be a legend bay show. But I will say this. You actually are allowed to say legend Bay. I just didn't want all four of us to only say legend Bay. So I am not ruling out all.
- [15:05]
Steve Hellwagon
I hope he's better than the last legend that they had.
- [15:10]
Doug Lay Maurice
I'm still spelling. I'm still spelling Legend Bay with a J because of Legend Cavazo. So, I mean, like, that's. That is a. A legend legacy that maybe you don't want to leave. It's like g. So, Blake, I'm just. I'm clearing the deck. We can talk about legend Bay, but I don't want to only talk about legend Bay for the next 21 minutes. Blake, who you got?
- [15:30]
Blake Biscardi
Perfect.
- [15:31]
Doug Lay Maurice
There is a big one. He says I got to pay, right?
- [15:34]
Blake Biscardi
No, there. There is a big learning curve with this team, too. Just joking with how to spell it. 51 new faces.
- [15:39]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [15:40]
Blake Biscardi
There's a lot that we have to do.
- [15:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
A lot of spelling. Yeah.
- [15:42]
Blake Biscardi
The roster. She was my best friend for the first half hour on Tuesday.
- [15:45]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [15:45]
Blake Biscardi
I was like, all right.
- [15:47]
Doug Lay Maurice
No, but, like, this is what it's like to work with Bill. By the way, they're lining up guys, like, to lead who's the front of each line? And he and I are writing down the numbers and we're going like, number by number. And Bill is looking at the numbers and saying the guy's name just to taunt me because he knows that I'm like, is Austin stare about 67? Are we sure? And Bill's just like, oh, Max LeBlanc, I got that nailed. So there are the people who need the roster sheet on day one, and there are the people who memorize the roster sheet in the off season. And I work with a memorizer. Blake, who you got here?
- [16:21]
Blake Biscardi
There we go. I. I do love legend base. We'll say Legend Bay and. And then I'm gonna go because of that defensive line conversation that Bill and I were having. Can I go? Kerry Wilder here, because there's an opportunity for him to step up because we don't know what this room is going to look like. And he's a guy who can play inside or outside, although I think he's probably going to be more outside on the edge for Ohio State. But he's a talented guy. He's a multi sport athlete. He played basketball, too. There's a really, really good skill set for him. And in a room where you have guys like what Bill said, where he's a high floor guy but you don't quite know what the ceiling is, that means there's opportunity there for guys to step up. And I think for Wilder, if he can get developed by LJ pretty quickly, like, he could expedite that process a little bit. And then maybe he's stealing some reps from guys, and then all of a sudden he gets to go into a game in September and he flashes real quick and then he earns himself more playing time as the season goes on. So I don't think he's going to be a guy that immediately is like, okay, he's going to be this true freshman like Jeremiah Smith or we're watching him coast to coast. But I think he's going to have an opportunity at some point early, whether it's later in the game or just on a rotational snap that he flashes and then he's going to earn more snaps from there as the season goes on.
- [17:40]
Doug Lay Maurice
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- [18:33]
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- [18:39]
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- [19:11]
Doug Lay Maurice
I'm just trying to envision like let's say against Indiana, like middle of the third quarter in a tight game, Indiana's got a third and 11 and you look out on the field and they're running like the Rushman package and Kenyatta Jackson's inside and we're like, hey, who's, who's at edge? And it's like, is that Kerry Wilder in the game in a pass rush moment as a true freshman in the middle of the third quarter against a top five team like Bill is That, like, is that a complete fantasy or the idea of, like, let's drop a talented dude in situationally and let him get the quarterback? Could that. Could that happen?
- [19:51]
Bill Landis
I think it could happen. Blake and I are very much on the same page here with this show because he was. Kari Wilder was my pick as well. I'll pick somebody different, but, yes, I do think that's a possibility for. For Wilder, I. I wondered if he would be inside or outside, like, on the first day of spring. And then he got eyeballs on him, and he's more like 248 pounds and not 270 pounds. So he's very much an outside guy right now. But I know that Ohio State views him in. In a similar. I mean, they don't. He's not Chase Young. He's not Nick Bosa. But I think the idea of, like, does this kid have what it takes as a young guy to play on the edge some as a freshman? I do think Ohio State has viewed him that way kind of since the day they. They got his commitment. So. And given the fact that there's just not a whole lot of established pass rushing production on this roster right now, even with the transfers that have been brought in, I do think there's an opportunity for somebody to seize that. And it could be, you know, not that Carry Water becomes our best pass rusher, but a guy who. Who needs to be on the field some because he provides that element.
- [20:54]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [20:55]
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- [20:55]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. All right. So you're good. You'll. You'll stick with Wilder. That's your answer? It's a good answer.
- [21:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it is a good answer because Blake stole my answer. I do want to steal yours, but I won't steal yours because I.
- [21:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
No, but go ahead and steal mine because I might steal yours.
- [21:08]
Bill Landis
No, it's okay. No, no. I'll. I'll just mention also Dracoid and Guilford for. For a lot of the reasons I was gonna steal.
- [21:14]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, that's your guy.
- [21:16]
Bill Landis
That is my guy. He's not my. A lot of people think that he, like, you know, at the end of their respective careers, that. That maybe Drayden Guilford has a shot of being thought of a little higher than Chris Henry Jr. I don't think it has to be about that. I think it's more just about opportunity in year one. And. And I do think Chris is going to be kind of behind Jeremiah a little bit now. I think he'll play more than, say, like, Marvin Harrison played behind Garrett Wilson as a true freshman in. In 20, 21, because you'll just want to make sure you have Jeremiah for the long haul and try to steal him some rest when you can. But when the Z position is sort of as wide open as it is right now, I think Guilford's got a shot to get some action there, and he's pretty polished for a freshman, so I think he could pop early.
- [22:00]
Doug Lay Maurice
All right, I'll say Jordan Thomas, because I watched the defense on Tuesday on the first day and was like, man, who is that? And then Bill watched the defense on Thursday and said, man, who is that? And we've talked a lot about Jordan Thomas on our shows here on the Bill and Doug Show. So I don't want to belabor the point, but I think he'll be their number three outside corner. I think it'll be Jermaine Matthews and Devin Sanchez. And then like, if they want to give a guy a rest, if it's a blowout, if somebody turns an ankle, if they go to a dime look, and if, like, if Jermaine Matthews is sliding inside for some reason, I think Jordan Thomas could be on the field as a true freshman, like with a real role as like the 6th DB who actually will play against teams other than Kent State. Stevie boy, there's not a lot of freshmen left. Who you got here?
- [22:41]
Steve Hellwagon
Well, I mean, obvious one is Chris Henry Jr. Which we touched on a little bit in Legend Bay, obviously. Chris Henry Jr. My concern, I think he played his freshman year at West Claremont, then played his sophomore year at one of the Withrow maybe in Cincinnati, and then he got sent to the prep school out in California. And so he's bounced around a little bit. He was at modern day, not necessarily a prep school. His brother's the one at the basketball prep school in Arizona, the Compass Prep, so. And I think Ohio State would like to, to get him as well. So at least Deepler perhaps. So my misgiving, and I don't even know if that's the right word on Chris Henry Jr. Is he's never been a huge producer the last three years. I think he was his first year at West Claremont, but, you know, everybody he was playing against was way outmatched going against him. He's had some injury issues. You know, it's caps and sleeves at this level. You know, it's like you have got to deliver the goods. You just, you don't get by on reputation. And I've, I've seen guys come and I've seen guys go, and you got to be more like Marvin Harrison Jr. And Jeremiah Smith, more steak than the sizzle. And that's what, you know, again, I, I need to see that. I don't know if he was ranked just off of his name or off of seven on seven drills or camps or whatever, but 11 on 11 tackle football. I don't know that there's a lot out there of him at the highest level, you know. You know, doing. Doing, you know, 14 games worth of stuff. And that's what you're going to ask him to do, you know, this season. Is he going to be there for the long haul? I don't know. I think potentially he's got. I mean, the sky is the absolute limit. I mean, with him, when you look at him physically, I mean, he's just, whoa, I think six, five. Let's see what they have him listed as.
- [24:52]
Doug Lay Maurice
Landis has this memorized. How, how heavy is Chris Henry?
- [24:55]
Steve Hellwagon
195 and 195. I, I think he should play at 205. I mean, 6, 5. There's no reason why he shouldn't be at 205. But I mean, it, it's a war. It is an absolute war in the Big Ten. And I think, you know, it ain't for the meek. So you've got to be big and strong to make an impact in this conference and with this football team. They'll chew you up and spit you out if you aren't, you know, physically up to the, to the, to the challenge. So I want to see, you know, before, you know, as Denny Green said, before I crown him, I, I want to see. I want to see it. You know, we knew with Jeremiah Smith after about the fourth day of spring ball when he was just, you know, abusing Denzel Burke and some of these other guys who were pretty good players. You're like, whoa, you know, he's, he's for real. So that's what I want to see with him. The other guy that I really, really, really, really, really like, first saw him on a basketball court at the University of Dayton, playing as a freshman for Akron Hoban in the state final four. And I think they chumped pick central. I think with Devin Green maybe in the state championship. I, I, Devon Royal in the state championship. Sam Greer, 6, 7, 3, 35. Guys, he is right out of central casting. Yeah. And he's a big guy. I, I want to tell you, I saw him standing there. He looks like a lean, athletic 6, 7, 3, 35. If everything checks out and he stays healthy and he's able to make the Jump, you know, to Big Ten level football, Ohio State level football. He could be in the two deep by the end of the season. And I don't know necessarily as a starter, as a true freshman. They don't need him to start. I think they're going to be okay, barring injuries. But Mac rather, Sam Greer, to me it looks like a stud. So those are some of the ones and they're obvious. I mean, I'm only quoting you guys from the top 100.
- [27:01]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, no, they got a lot.
- [27:02]
Steve Hellwagon
I don't have a sleeper yet. I was only at the one practice, so I got to learn some sleepers. But yeah, now that's.
- [27:08]
Doug Lay Maurice
And, and we didn't even. We didn't mention Sincere Johnson. We managed to not talk too much about legend Bay. There's some guys there and I, I do think Chris Henry Jr. Maybe in the end you just tell him to staple himself to Jeremiah Smith. Don't worry about playing. Just follow this guy around wherever he does, wherever he goes, whatever he does, what he eats, eat that, what he does in the weight room, lift that. What he does for catching extra balls after practice, do that. And.
- [27:33]
Steve Hellwagon
And is the only true freshman who's produced.
- [27:36]
Doug Lay Maurice
I mean, and so that's Lobby.
- [27:38]
Steve Hellwagon
By the end of the year was pretty good and Harrison had the big game in the Rose bowl but really didn't do a whole lot otherwise. The freshman year, Wilson, you bring him up, he made some incredible catches. But, you know, I. It's hard. It's just hard. I mean, who's going to have more catches? Him or Ennis? Ennis has not been a big producer. Henry has the potential to be a good producer. So that's, that's an intriguing, interesting question.
- [28:04]
Doug Lay Maurice
I mean, it's.
- [28:05]
Walmart Express Delivery Announcer
He.
- [28:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
He couldn't have a better guy to learn from than the guy in front of him right now. So that, that will be. That would be a, A freshman year, I think. Well served. If. Regardless of what he does on the field, if he just absorbs as much J.J. as he can. Let's do a little crossover. Bill Landis, we'll start this one with you. I hope I can say this question in a way that makes the audience understand what I'm trying to get at. If interest in Ohio State football is 100 out of 100, we're not, I don't know, it's not a definitive statement that it is, but of course it is. That's the threshold we're talking about. What is the interest right now in Ohio State men's basketball? And like what should it be when basketball's got it going? So we're looking for two numbers here. Like, man, like, you guys are out. Bill Landis is going to be heading to South Carolina. Like, you're around the team enough. Like, hey, I feel like if football's 100, men's basketball right now is a blank. And I think at its best it should be a blank. And I'm going to like, do little since I did the blank. I'm going to have a skinny little microphone and we're going to play some music like doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. While you do give your answers. Two numbers, Bill, and that's. What are they?
- [29:08]
Bill Landis
I would say the interest to me at the moment feels like, like a 75. Maybe. It's, it's not, it's not through the roof. I think there are many people who are excited that Ohio State basketball is back in the NCAA tournament, but you also have to think about where, where a lot of people were, you know, a month or so ago coming off that home loss to Michigan. It just did not look great for Ohio State to maybe make the NCAA tournament. And it's funny to me how much things change because at that point it's like they were on the bubble. They got their butt kicked and kind of got like squarely knocked off the bubble. We're not sure if they're going to make it. And now they're an eight seed, right? So, so things, things change rather, rather quickly. And, and I think the interest has, has reflected that. And they, they had a very nice close to the season, but I think, you know, that the, the hardcore Ohio State basketball fan, I think, is pretty fired up with this team being where they are right now. I think the more casual Ohio State basketball fan, who's more of like a football first kind of person, is happy to see where they're at, but still maybe wanting to wrap their arms more around the idea of a team that can, that can advance beyond the first weekend of the NCAA tournament. And I don't know that people are staring at this draw or this team and thinking that they're, they're going to do that. So I, I think it, it feels like it's about a 70, 75 for me. You know, ideally, where should it be if the hoops team is, is humming maybe 85ish? I, I don't like something. I still think, you know, a couple degrees short of 100 out of 100, like it is for football, at least for me. I, I, they're just two very different entities with, in terms of, you know, that the passion and the interest and I don't say that to, to, you know, demean anyone who, who does love Ohio State men's basketball first and foremost because I do know that those fans exist. But, but I think by and large it's mostly a football first fan base which everyone knows. So I don't know that basketball could ever be quite to 100 level. But you guys covered that today like and I didn't. So you might, you might know better than me. But I, I would say peak is something like, you know, mid to high 80s. Yeah.
- [31:16]
Doug Lay Maurice
Happy retirement by the way to Thadmata who retired.
- [31:18]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah.
- [31:19]
Doug Lay Maurice
On this Monday.
- [31:19]
Steve Hellwagon
Congratulations to him.
- [31:21]
Doug Lay Maurice
502 career wins. I think Steve Hellwagen covered 478 of them. I think it was so congratulations to Steve Hellweather for that.
- [31:29]
Steve Hellwagon
I was there on day one and I was there on day last when he and Gino sat up there and, and you know, talked about how it all went awry. But yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [31:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
The 2026 NCAA March Madness Men's Tournament is back and it's guaranteed to keep you dancing every night. The biggest event in college sports is finally here and TNT Sports has you covered from the opening tip to the final buzzer and everything in between. Keep up with all of the heart pumping, show stopping craziness of March Madness across tbs, cbs, tnt, True TV and the March Madness Live app as we march all the way to Indianapolis. And this year, the men's Final four returns to TBS on April 4th and 6th. Catch all the clutch shots, big time plays, upsets, Cinderella's blue bloods and more that keep you on the edge of your seat. You're not going to want to miss a second of the action. So tune in to the NCAA Men's First Four tonight at 6pm Eastern on True TV. And in the March Madness Live app,
- [32:34]
Trey Wingo
Bleacher Report is your destination for sports and well, I would know. Hey everybody, Trey Wingo here, longtime sports host and it's my favorite time of the year. NFL free agency is in full swing. It's March Madness. Major League Baseball is back. The NBA and NHL are heating up as well. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. You can follow the teams you care about, get real time, scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. And we all know the best part of sports is the community. Bleacher Report makes it easy to drop your takes and relive every moment with other fans. It's fast, it's personalized, and it keeps me in the game no matter where I am. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment.
- [33:19]
Doug Lay Maurice
I have. I have a little bit of a different view on this, and I can. I can. I'm not stuck in music here. I can hear, like, the. I can see, like, the eye of the tiger montage with Ohio State being the first game of the tournament at 12:15 on Thursday, and CBS, if they want to do it, they should just follow around. Some Ohio State fans, and it's like they're opening closet doors and, like, getting out dusty Ohio State basketball hats and, like, blowing the dust off of it and like. Like getting, like, limbered up because they haven't cared about this stuff in four years, baby. But guess what? I think this does happen with Ohio State basketball. It's like riding a bike, right? And it's like you put your bike away and it's maybe all rusted and stuff, but if it's a nice day and you get your rusted bike out and you kick the rust off, you're ready to go on a ride, baby. And so I think this might be at an 85 already. Like, it's like, hey, I didn't care. I thought they were dead. I kind of thought Diebler should be fired. They're the eight seed. They're opening the tournament on cbs. Bill Raftery, Tracy Wolfson. Give it to me. I'm back, baby. This has been hibernating my Ohio State basketball fandom. I thought it was dead, and we undertakered it. We're back. Is that the undertaker Bill? It's not Triple H, is it? Who's the guy? Like, it's back. So I think it might be an 85 right now. But also, and I'll be curious what the great Steve Helboygan has to say about this as soon as he talks. So I think that I have lessened in the fad moda heyday when you would go from, like, Jim Trestle football to Ohio to Thadmata basketball, right? And they're Jim Trestle football. They're beaten Michigan. They're winning the Big Ten every year. But there was a layer of, like, man, they just, like, after O2, obviously. But that wasn't here yet. Then, like, in 060708, right? It feels like Ohio State football is awesome, but it can't quite compete highest level with the. With the best SEC teams, and then you go into the basketball season, and it'd be like, but maybe these guys can. And I think there was a period there where it felt like, who has a better chance to win a national championship, Ohio State football or Ohio State men's basketball? I think you could have argued, and I think a lot of people in the fan base might have said, I think it's Ohio State men's basketball. And I think maybe it gave me a distorted view of how basketball and men's basketball shape up. And I think since then, college football's only gotten more popular. I think Ohio State football has only become more of a monster. And it. I think it is. The gap has expanded. It's partly because basketball has waned, but I think it's partly because football as a sport and at Ohio State has grown. And so I think maybe my expectation of what Ohio State men's basketball should be is only a 60 because football is 100. Like. Like, I don't know what else. So I think they might be exceeding. Like, I'm more like, if I'm an Ohio State basketball fan, I'm ready to go. But actually, like, most of the time, maybe my. My expectations are too high because the football monster has eaten everything. And I want basketball to be better if I'm Ohio State fan, but maybe I have a more realistic view than I did 10 years ago. Stevie Hellwagen, what do you think about this whole thing?
- [36:29]
Steve Hellwagon
Okay, well, you know, complex, complex. And I've been doing this with that program since, like, 1988. So it's like my 38th year. The first year or two, I was a student. And so it looks like a stock chart where it just kind of goes up and then it goes down, and then it goes up and it goes down. And the first point of reference in 91, when they had that big game with Indiana that a lot of people remember, double overtime game where you had, you know, five studs on both sides of the ball. And the interest in Ohio State basketball was as high as it had been in my lifetime up to that point. And I was at that point, I was only 23 years old. But so at that point, it was about a night. Yeah, I'd say an 80, 85. And then with heirs, they let him stay around, like, four years too long. Six years with no tournament. They about killed it off. And thankfully, Jim o' Brien came in and brought Scooney pin with him, and he inherited Michael Red. And when they go to the Final Four, it might just, like a mushroom Cloud. I mean, it was like everybody was hanging on every game. And so it was back up around 85, pushing 90 like Bill said. And to me, I think that's the high water mark. I think, okay, it's not going, it's not going to ever get to 100 like football. It just can't. There are not enough people who, who, who want both sports. There's, there are, there is a finite number of Ohio State football fans who do not care about basketball. It's just not their thing. And football and football only. So then you, you know, go forward. Ma had some great teams. It was probably pushing 85, 90 in his. He had four straight sweet 16s. He had two final fours. He had it rolling. And then he had his health issues and they stopped bringing in great players. And Holtman, you know, didn't do a whole lot to help it. And you come to the last two years where you're lucky to, to get 10,000 people to come to the games. And I can remember when Odin and Conley sold out the entire season. 19,000 seats as true freshmen gone. You couldn't get a ticket. I mean, that's a 90 right there. That's as good as it gets. You have a sellout of 19,000 people and they're like, oh, the people nowadays, oh, the building is too big. I mean, if, if you have one of the best teams in college basketball, the building's not big enough. You'll have 19,000 people and be turning people away. So I've seen it. So it was a great sign this year that they trended back toward that with the huge crowds that they got. I think it was like 17 for Michigan, then understandably only 15 for Purdue. Like, fool me once, you're not going to fool me again. Whatever, whatever. Yeah, George W. Bush said. Said. But then they all came back, you know, for the, the last game with Indiana, you were back to almost 19,000. So that's the indication to me that people do care if it's a good product. And I would say right now it's about an 80, because I think people have to be cautiously optimistic that this team is an eight seed. That's what they earned. That's what they are. You know, you can't lose games to Washington, give away games to Nebraska, Pittsburgh, North Carolina. I mean, and what, there's one more that they gave away. Could have beaten Michigan State on the road. Oh, Virginia. I think they could have beaten Virginia. If Mobley plays against Virginia or Royal plays against Michigan State, you know, there's five games right there. If you just win two of them, I mean, your borderline top 25 team. So, you know, and then you've got, you know, much more, you know, emphasis. They would have been in the. In the NCAA weeks ago instead of just submitting that 10 days ago. So long way around the bend. I think it's an 80. I think it can be close to a 90. And, you know, we'll see what d blur he's back next year. I mean, there's no question about it. And we'll see what he could do. He's only going to be as good as the money has to spend and, you know, we'll see. See what kind of team they can put on the court next year.
- [40:59]
Doug Lay Maurice
That's why I love bringing people together on a show like this, because young Blake Biscardi just got a basketball lesson dropped in his lap by Professor Hell Wagon. How'd that feel, Blake?
- [41:09]
Steve Hellwagon
It hasn't always sucked, Blake. I'll just say that it was. It was a big deal at one point.
- [41:15]
Blake Biscardi
Almost started taking notes. I'm ready for the exam. On the next episode.
- [41:19]
Doug Lay Maurice
It's open book. It's okay. It's open book. What are your numbers here, Blake?
- [41:24]
Blake Biscardi
No, I gonna be on the same page as Bill and Steve on. On this one. I think with football, basketball is never going to reach where football is because you just have the football only fans for Ohio State. And then you have the fans that pay attention to football religiously and then will pick up basketball once football ends, but only once football ends. And then you're like, okay, someone give me a rundown of what basketball is up until this point. And they're already 16 games into the season. You're like, okay, so January, what's this like?
- [41:51]
Walmart Express Delivery Announcer
Like?
- [41:51]
Blake Biscardi
Well, the last couple years, it's been terrible. So now you're getting to learn about this team that if you're picking up Ohio State this year, they became pretty fun in the middle of February because you heard Jake Diebler talking about, hey, this team, we're positioned to play our best basketball at the end of the season, but we've just got to get healthy. And a lot of time you feel that as coach speak, but then they actually backed it up by playing their best basketball once they got healthy. So I think right now you're in that 70 range. But then if this team can find its way to the second weekend, I think you can push 75 or 80. And I think once it's really rolling, it's 85 to 90, because there is that gap that's going to stay between football and basketball. And I know I'll save part of this answer for the next question about it, but, you know, this team has what it takes to get to the sweet 16, but I do think it was very matchup dependent for them because good back courts do play well in the tournament. And you have Bruce Thornton and John Mobley can shoot the lights out of the stadium, and you got to play defense and be able to rebound and do all these things. But staring down Duke, that might be a tall task. But if you're staring down a different two or three seed, I think it's a different story. So there's a lot of intrigue around the team, and it's fun, but I think now it's like, where can this go from here? Now that you've gotten back to the tournament?
- [43:06]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah. Bill Landis, you will be in Greenville, South Carolina.
- [43:11]
Bill Landis
I will be there, yeah. Looking forward to it.
- [43:13]
Doug Lay Maurice
Anybody else going to South Carolina? Stevie. Stevie Hellwagon.
- [43:17]
Steve Hellwagon
Yes, I am endeavoring to get there. I got some family situation here. My father in law passed away. So we've got a memorial service on Saturday, but that I need to get back to. But I am definitely contemplating. My daughter is going to law school at Ohio State. She's on spring break and she wants to get out of this cold weather. And she's like, well, let's go to Greenville. Let's go for a few days. And I was like, okay, you got it. So we're gonna hop in the car and go by the seat of our pants tomorrow and get down there for the interviews Wednesday, the game Thursday, and head back after that. So I got.
- [43:50]
Doug Lay Maurice
I just. I love it when Professor Hellwagen's just a dad. God is the best.
- [43:54]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah.
- [43:54]
Doug Lay Maurice
Oh, father, daughter trip. Let's do it.
- [43:56]
Steve Hellwagon
She's my last one.
- [43:57]
Doug Lay Maurice
She's gotta do it. Okay, you're going?
- [44:02]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah.
- [44:03]
Doug Lay Maurice
It'll be awesome. The land is. Take some pictures of Hell Wagon and his kid when they're down.
- [44:06]
Bill Landis
Sure.
- [44:07]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, it'll be good.
- [44:09]
Steve Hellwagon
All right.
- [44:09]
Doug Lay Maurice
This is another crossover basketball football question.
- [44:12]
Bill Landis
And.
- [44:12]
Doug Lay Maurice
And I. I think this can lead to an even, like, a deeper discussion about this. What will happen first, like the next of these two things to happen? Ohio State football wins national championship. Ohio State men's basketball makes the Sweet 16. Now Ohio State men's basketball can make the Sweet 16 in like, five days. Ohio State football can't win the national championship in the next five days, as far as I'm aware. So if that's what you think could happen, then your answer is basketball. If you're not exactly picking them to beat Duke and get to the sweet 16, then we open this up a little bit. But, Landis, let me ask you this first before we give our answers here. Do you think that's a fair comparison of expectations of sense of achievement of Ohio State football winning the national championship and a Sweet 16 for Ohio State men's basketball? Because I'll tell you what, Ohio State football has won two national championships since this team last made the Sweet 16. So is this a fair comparison, or should it be final four or elite eight for men's basketball? Is sweet sixteen too easy right now?
- [45:18]
Bill Landis
I think sweet sixteen is fair. This. This program is. Yeah, yeah. Baby steps. It's been a bit.
- [45:25]
Doug Lay Maurice
A bit of.
- [45:25]
Bill Landis
A bit of a rut for about a decade. So I think sweet 16 is fair.
- [45:29]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, I'm gonna say football national championship. Hell wagon football national championship or men's basketball sweet 16. Which one first?
- [45:37]
Steve Hellwagon
I don't think they're beating Duke. I think they could win the football national championship this season if everything clicks together. So I would say football national championship. I have no idea what kind of a team they're going to put on the court next year. I mean, by all rights, it looks like it could be a top 20 team if they find somebody to replace Bruce Thornton, but, you know, and then it would swing back toward basketball, you know, being a Sweet 16 team next year. But I would say football national championship.
- [46:09]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, it's a good question. Good question. It's a good question. Blake, what do you got?
- [46:13]
Blake Biscardi
It is such a good question. Doug, if you would have asked me this question at the beginning of March. I was on Sweet 16, but then I think Ohio State played themselves into a tougher matchup now climbing all the way to the 8, 9 game, whatever side of it they were going to be on. Exactly. It's like, look what you did to yourselves. You're too good for your own good, but not good enough at the same time.
- [46:33]
Doug Lay Maurice
Right.
- [46:33]
Blake Biscardi
So if they were in the 611 or the 7 10, my answer would be sweet 16. But given that Duke is going to be that second round matchup if they beat TCU, I don't think they're going to make the Sweet 16 next year. So I'm with Steve. I don't know what the team's gonna look like next year. So my answer is football national championship.
- [46:47]
Doug Lay Maurice
All right, Billy boy, what you got?
- [46:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah, same. I. I think Ohio State's ceiling, the basketball team like, ceiling is a roster this year could get to the Sweet 16 depended on matchups. But I actually think they got kind of a tough draw with the first game against TCU and how good TCU is defensively. And then also just, I know Duke is banged up, but I still don't see Ohio State beating Duke. So if it's not going to be this week that I think I would take the football team to win a national title first. But I, I, Steve is right to call out, like, you know, Ohio State basketball could have a pretty solid roster next year. Amari Bino's back, John Mobley's back, Devin Royal's back for another year. They got the McDonald's all American coming in, right? They got the Baylor center who's been sitting on the bench all year, who should be available next year. They just, they need a lead guard, but if they can go find one, they should be a pretty competitive team next year. So, like, I think we could be having this conversation about them again this time next year. You know, does this look like a team that can make the sweet 16 realistically? And I think the answer could be yes. But there's a whole football season to be played between now and then. I think, you know, the football programs kind of always in a national championship window.
- [47:58]
Doug Lay Maurice
Because that, because I think that that's part of the question is right. Ohio State football is a national championship contender every year in the preseason. That's what you're thinking. If you, if someone said to you, does Ohio State football have a chance to win at all until further notice? I think the answer is yes. Every year is Ohio State basketball. Steve, like, if someone said to you, Steve, this program, this little run they're on, is Ohio State basketball now at the point where it is a Sweet 16 contender every year, like, until further notice. Let's think of them that way. Are they at that point, that point yet, or are they baby steps toward that where you would say, no, they're not like an automatic Sweet 16 contender at this point as a program, I
- [48:43]
Steve Hellwagon
think they're trending in the right direction. I think obviously making the tournament this year is only going to raise their profile and hopefully help them raise the money. More importantly, that they're going to need to go buy a roster. I loved Greg Doyle's column. He wrote the worst team that money could buy about Indiana. Those poor people, you know, my God, they're sick.
- [49:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
They got sick. They're fine. Yeah, I guess, I guess most popular sport in Indiana at this point.
- [49:11]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah, I guess. I should.
- [49:12]
Doug Lay Maurice
Their soccer team's good, isn't it? Yeah, they're fine.
- [49:14]
Steve Hellwagon
Worry too much about them. They did win a football national championship. But their pride and joy, there is no joy, there is no pride with Indiana basketball. And in Ohio State's been in that same kind of rut and I think that they're finally coming out of it. And he's got a couple of good prospects coming in with Anthony Thompson this year, LJ Smith the following year. And I think that the strategy that they're taking is let's get the best two, maybe three high school guys we can get in a given cycle and then go out and get great portal players. But the problem is you've got to spend that money wisely. He has struck. The list of guys that they struck out on is, you know, Stuart Bradshaw, Michi, the second go round, you know, on and on. I mean it's, it's a long list. I think the only ones that they've really hit on were Micah Parish last year. I think he had a pretty good year for him. I would say Christoph Tilly to a degree this year. But Noel has been, because of the injury, he's been awash pretty much Cups, you know, he's public enemy number one with a lot of Ohio State fans. They just, they don't want to see him or Colin White ever play another minute at Ohio State. But I don't think Cups is all the way back from his injury yet and coach said that he's been playing through injury anyway. So I think I would give him one more year to see if he can help the bottom line. And you're going to need a backup point guard anyway. So yeah, I don't think there's any, any problem there. But yeah, I think it's trending the right direction for Ohio State basketball and we will, you know, we'll see what, what Deibler can do, what, what kind of an arsenal he has. But whatever money he's been given, he's got to spend it wisely. Like they, they bought Aaron Bradshaw and apparently had never spoken with him or something. I don't know what the heck that was. But yeah, and Sean Stewart was not a whole. I mean the first time I saw Sean Stewart trying to shoot 6 foot baseline jumpers and he of them in a row, I was like, oh boy, here we go.
- [51:24]
Doug Lay Maurice
I think Steve's been going to the door a few times. We think he's letting the dogs in. He's going out there for more takes. He's like, I got a couple takes out here on the porch I gotta find and then I'm gonna bring them and drop them on you. The 2026 NCAA March Madness Men's Tournament is back and it's guaranteed to keep you dancing every night. The biggest event in college sports is finally here and TNT Sports has you covered from the opening tip to the final buzzer and everything in between. Keep up with all of the heart pumping show stopping craziness of March Madness across TBS, CBS, TNT, TruTV and the March Madness Live app as we march all the way to Indianapolis and this year The Men's Final Four returns to TBS on April 4th and 6th. Catch all the clutch shots, big time plays, upsets, Cinderella's blue bloods and more that keep you on the edge of your seat. You're not going to want to miss a second of the action. So tune in to The NCAA Men's First Four tonight at 6pm Eastern on True TV and in the March Madness
- [52:28]
Trey Wingo
Live app, Bleacher Report is your destination for sports and well, I would know. Hey everybody, Trey Wingo here, longtime sports host and it's my favorite time of the year. NFL free agencies in full swing. It's March Madness. Major League Baseball is back. The NBA and NHL are heating up as well. Every day there's a new headline, a new highlight, a new moment you've got to see for yourself. That's why I stay locked in with the Bleacher Report app. You can follow the teams you care about, get real time scores, breaking news and highlights all in one place. And we all know the best part of sports is the community. Bleacher Report makes it easy to drop your takes and relive every moment with other fans. It's fast, it's personal, personalized, and it keeps me in the game no matter where I am. Download the Bleacher Report app today so you never miss a moment
- [53:14]
Doug Lay Maurice
in the end for this question. Bill, is this the guy? If that's what Ohio State football is a national championship contender every year. Ohio State men's basketball is a Sweet 16 contender every year. Is that where all of this should settle?
- [53:26]
Bill Landis
Ideally, I think people will be pretty happy with that. Yeah, because I don't even know a guy in the past have said like Ohio State basketball expectations should be more about Big Ten contention and less about the NCAA tournament. But I don't know. I don't know that like basketball consumption habits work that way. To be honest. Like all really people care about is the NCAA tournament. Do you get in? How far can you Go. So if you want to set your expectations relative to that, have at it. Because I think that's where most people are too. So. Yeah, that does kind of feel fair to me. Yeah.
- [53:59]
Doug Lay Maurice
And again, I think the difference between, like, making it and like before the season, feeling like you could make it because sweet 16 is just a stand in for, like, are you a top 25 team? It's like, are you, are you in the poll most of the year? Like, you've beaten some good Big Ten teams during the season. And like, when you talk in January, oh, could this team make the sweet 16? You're saying like, yeah, no, I. They definitely could if they get the right matchup, whatever. As opposed to being like, oh my God, I don't even know if they're gonna make the tournament. Right. That's just, it's the conversation. I think the conversations are so important. The hope that you can give people the excitement you can give people. You don't always achieve the goals, but is it realistic? And the last couple years it's just like it hasn't felt realistic. So anyway, let's get the brackets. Steve Hellwagen, we'll start with you again. This is just like you were being just basketball fellas here. How many March Madness brackets are you going to fill out? Are you like a one person, A one bracket person? Are you gonna. I kind of can see Steve, Professor Hellwagen, like 11 sheets out on his table, like, doing okay. I got, I got Duke over here, I got Arizona over here. How many brackets, Steve?
- [54:56]
Steve Hellwagon
Well, in a given year, I can sometimes do three. Our kids, their pediatricians, their practice were part of a group at Children's Hospital that at one point it was online. We had 1500 entries. So you're playing for some serious.
- [55:13]
Doug Lay Maurice
Blowing this wide open. This is a betting scandal. Illegal gambling within the systems exist anymore.
- [55:19]
Steve Hellwagon
Because what happened was you were giving out, I don't know, that, I don't know, $2,000, whatever to the winner. And that's hard to. How do you do that without tripping the cord, you know, so to speak? People were starting to ask questions, you know, transfer or a check or, you know, I'm going to hand you, you know, a wad of twenty dollar bills or what. How. You know, how, how so? And they were right. They, they, they couldn't get around it, so it got too big and they had to disband it. But man, I finished like 10th or 15th in that range one time and I got like three or $400 back. And I thought my God, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened to me, you know, and ever. That was like 15 years ago. So I know I've pissed away all that money trying to win years since then. But yeah, I'll do, I'll probably only do one or two this year. I've got. We have a family one going, plus a women's one going. And then my buddy, his company's got one going as well. So I'll probably do two men's and one women's and that'll probably be how it goes for me this year.
- [56:32]
Doug Lay Maurice
I like it like you get in more the hospital, it's like you won the bracket. You get a free colonoscopy or whatever. They can just hand out medical stuff.
- [56:39]
Steve Hellwagon
Exactly.
- [56:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
Blake Biscardi, how many brackets?
- [56:43]
Blake Biscardi
I would probably say two to three because one, I always do off a gut feel immediately when I see the bracket the first time I look at it. It's just gut feel. You don't think about it, just see what happens. And sometimes it works out. Most times it does not. But I think what's also really interesting about this year for Ohio State is they're back in the field for the first time in a couple years and they could lose all interest by 2 o'.
- [57:04]
Steve Hellwagon
Clock.
- [57:06]
Blake Biscardi
That's the unfortunate thing.
- [57:08]
Bill Landis
It's like this is just by halftime, right?
- [57:10]
Blake Biscardi
Like this could be one o' cl quick.
- [57:13]
Steve Hellwagon
I've been there. 2001, they played Utah State down in Greensboro, first game of the tournament. And you know the joke is when you lose, it's like you pick up your NCAA watch at the door on your way out. You know, all the quote watch teams, you go on and watch the rest of the tournament. And Ohio State was the first watch team that year in 2001. Go get your watch. They got upset. Utah State had a, a like a 27 win season out there in one of those leagues and which I don't. They weren't in the Mountain west then. They were in some, probably Big west or something, but. Or I don't know, whack or whatever. But yeah, they, I was there. Kenny Johnson, 7 foot center, the 61 guard, went into the lane and shot it way up over Kenny Johnson and made the shot and Ohio State, we were back in Columbus the next day by 3pm that's how it went.
- [58:08]
Doug Lay Maurice
Landis brackets.
- [58:10]
Bill Landis
I do one, I will, I will go through a couple different versions of it like, like early in the week, but when I go to submit them and however many bracket pools I'm in That given year, it's the same bracket, and it's one bracket. And I get like, I do. I do one men's and one women's. I've been doing women's bracket pools the last few years, too, but, yeah, just one each.
- [58:31]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, I will say I. Back in the day at the Cleveland Plain Dealer, we would do, like, a special section for the NCAA tournament. And so I would cover football all year, and then I'd start covering Ohio State basketball, and I'd be in Chicago or Indy or whatever. Ohio State, you know, they would be in the Big Ten championship game or something, and it'd be like the bracket would come out and then it would be like, okay, finish up your stories for the section. And by the way, like, give us your picks so we can put it in the newspaper for everyone to read that you thought about for 11 minutes. And so, Steve, you could talk about winning free medical procedures and two grand and having a secret parking lot handoff. There's nothing like having to put your picks in the newspaper after you gave it eight minutes of thought.
- [59:18]
Steve Hellwagon
Well, yeah, you know what, What a great tradition it used to be on the Monday after Selection Sunday. I get. I get, get so sad thinking about this USA Today. My God, if there was one issue of USA Today that you had to pick up every year, it was the one on the Monday after Selection Sunday because they had huge capsules on all 68 teams. They had analysis. Dick Vital dictated a column to somebody who typed it in. You know, bait, you know, oh, baby. And, you know, PTP or. And all this stuff and be cutting down the nets in New Orleans, you know, and all this stuff, stuff. And their coverage of that 10 years ago, back to 25 or 30 years, was. It was the best newspaper product in the world. And now today, I. I won't even go, go look for it because I know it's a sham. And they're charging you three times as much money for it, too. And that's the reason why newspapers, you know, are dead. Because they have a chance to give you a product that nobody else could give you but you. You know, they don't. They can't do it anymore. So it's unfortunate.
- [60:29]
Doug Lay Maurice
We used to do a thing at the Cleveland Play Dealer, too, where we would get a player from each of the sports. We'd have a Cavs player, a Browns player, an Indian, then Indians player, and I would be in charge of getting an Ohio State player. And we would make them do brackets, and then we would put them in the paper. And have them compete against each other. So I'd be like, it's like on Monday I'd be calling around being like, Titus Powell, can you give me your NCAA tournament package, bracket or whatever?
- [60:52]
Bill Landis
So like it?
- [60:53]
Doug Lay Maurice
I had to get I got Mike Conley one year he was in the NBA. It's like, can you do your bracket anyway? I'll do two. I do the one like Blake, the one that I really mean. But then I do my backup one and the backup one's always better, which is why Landis I like my first gut instinct has never been correct in my whole life. So I have to do the secondary bracket to give myself a chance. Not Landis, though. One bracket. Truth or Landis.
- [61:15]
Bill Landis
Yeah, well, yeah, but like I said, I'll work through different versions of it before, before perfecting it, which is usually the last iteration is often the worst because I overthink it and then I submit it and then I look at it and think like, boy, I wish I would have just submitted my first bracket instead of my 15th bracket.
- [61:33]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. All right, Steve Hellwagon, where can the people find your work? What what do you got coming to give the good folks about Ohio State Sports?
- [61:41]
Steve Hellwagon
Yeah, Bucknuts.com and 247 Sports is our network and we're owned by CBS, which is kind of cool. Not the that we get a lot of benefit out of that, but, you know, it's kind of cool to say that you're affiliated with cbs, I guess, or at least it used to be, I don't know. But at any rate, we're there. We're going to be all over this basketball this week. Kind of a quiet week with football with it being spring break. But I know that as we get through the week, we'll have more and more stuff on that side as well, plus recruiting coverage, everything else that's going on. So just tune into Bucknuts.com and we'll we'll have all kinds of stuff there.
- [62:18]
Doug Lay Maurice
Professor Hellwagen, given the goods. Blake Biscardi, the Silver Bulletin where can people find your work?
- [62:23]
Blake Biscardi
You can find it@t silverbullton.com at Blake Biscardi on social media, we've got a lot of great stuff coming the rest of the spring. Got some basketball coverage, too, and then we'll have some more, buckeye said of the unions coming out throughout the rest of the spring. Just given the update from Ryan Day, what we hear from the coaches and also make sure we're staying tuned for those very cool.
- [62:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
And Landis, you're getting in the car on Tuesday, head to South Carolina, have coverage@billandduggosu.substack.com.
- [62:53]
Bill Landis
Yep, we'll have, we'll have hoops coverage there. We're not, we'll still do some football stuff, right? You're gonna, you're gonna do some football this week while I'm primarily focused on hoops. But yeah, we'll, we'll have both, both bases covered this week and then we'll see. Maybe Ohio State basketball will prove us all wrong and get to the sweet 16 in a couple days and then we'll all look like fools for our previous conversation.
- [63:12]
Doug Lay Maurice
That would be quite a thing. All right. Thanks to you guys for being here. We like to do it every Monday when we can. Last week we did a little bit later, but the plan is to bring you around the shoe every Monday pretty much year round. And we can't do that without the great insights, the contributions, the, the generosity of time given by other members of the Ohio State beat. So thanks to Steve Hellwagon. Go read them. Thanks to Blake Biscardi. Go read him. On behalf of Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lay Maurice and that was Taxax around the shoe on the Bill and Doug show.
- [63:47]
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