Ohio State in the transfer portal: Top recruits from the Class of 2024 are leaving the Buckeyes

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State in the Transfer Portal – Top Recruits from the Class of 2024 Are Leaving the Buckeyes

Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis
Date: January 5, 2026
Producer: Blue Wire

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis dive into the latest developments regarding Ohio State football’s activity in the transfer portal, focusing on the unusually high turnover among the highly-touted class of 2024. They discuss reasons behind the exodus of top recruits, implications for roster construction in the NIL/transfer era, and the broader impact on how blue blood programs like Ohio State should approach recruiting and player development. The tone is honest, inquisitive, and occasionally philosophical, with the hosts pushing each other—and the audience—to think about the deeper changes college football is undergoing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Portal Trends and Turnover in 2024 Class

[02:36]

• Bill Landis recaps that as recording, 17 Buckeyes are out in the portal, up from 13 players the year before.
• The 2024 recruiting class was highly rated (fifth in the nation), but six of the top nine recruits are now gone or in the portal after just two years.
• Doug expresses that “it seems like too high” a number, though he wonders if it’s simply a sign of the times:

  “Is it just the cost of doing business in college football these days?” (03:48, Doug)

[04:21]

• The hosts highlight how following recruiting classes can now be disillusioning for fans:

  “You follow a class, they're here for two years and you get to this point and six of the top nine are gone.” (04:21, Bill)

2. Is Traditional Player Development Still Possible?

[06:29]

• Doug re-evaluates the classic adage (often attributed to Urban Meyer): “the first two years are on coaches, the third is on the player,” suggesting it’s now antiquated.

• “Maybe it needs to be like the first year's on us, the second year is on you.” (06:29, Doug)

• Bill and Doug agree it’s harder to rely on the traditional three-year path from recruit to regular contributor, especially with the rise of the portal and NIL.

3. What Type of Portal Losses Matter Most?

[07:44]

• They distinguish between portal losses of projected starters (critical) and those of players who haven’t cracked the two-deep.

• Doug:

  “The bottom third of your recruiting class is just sort of like always in play for churn…” (08:08, Doug)

• Bill: Only Aaron Scott (CB) among 2024 portal outgoing was projected as a 2026 starter by the hosts.

  “He’s the only guy who’s gone on the portal that we, ...had projected as a starter for next year.” (17:22, Bill)

4. Examples of Development, Opportunity, & Player Decisions

A. Case Studies: Play Time and Satisfaction

[10:49]

• Doug urges that OSU must play freshmen and sophomores more:

  “…they need to probably play a little differently to make, to create those opportunities for themselves.” (11:50, Doug)

• Limited snaps and a slow pace of play hamper development for younger players, which pushes them out the door.

B. The “What If” of Jelani Thurman

[12:39]

• Bill details how Jelani Thurman, a highly-touted tight end, stuck around but was leapfrogged by a portal transfer (Max Claire from Purdue). Thurman rarely played and is now in the portal, which could dissuade others from being patient in Columbus.

• “If you’re a kid in 2024, I would look at that and say like, I, I can’t wait.” (14:52, Bill)

C. Opportunity and Playing Time: The Case of Aaron Scott

[19:08 – 23:45]

• Aaron Scott, a local product and top-50 national talent, got special teams work but little defensive opportunity despite need and injuries.
• Doug:

  “I think they could have embraced the opportunities to play Aaron Scott a little more to figure out what they had.” (22:59, Doug)

5. Changing Roster Calculus and Portal Use

[25:37]

• Doug explores the tension between investing in five-star recruits and needing proven, older players—sometimes at the expense of elite underclassmen.

• Ohio State is likely shifting toward valuing “what is” (players proven as starters elsewhere, even from less heralded backgrounds) over “what could be” (their own blue-chip recruits).

• Bill:

  “You’re trading five-star recruits who haven’t played for max starters who have played...and that…would make Urban Meyer’s head explode.” (33:55, Bill)

[34:46]

• Doug ponders if the program should change front-end recruiting investment, perhaps taking fewer high school players and reallocating resources to the transfer portal.

• “Is 28 guys too much?...Do you need to save some of the resources you’re putting into the high school class and reallocate them to the transfer portal?” (34:46, Doug)

6. Detailed Analysis of Key Departures

A. Mylan Graham (WR)

[36:52]

• Five-star receiver, got 12 targets as a sophomore, didn’t break through even with injuries at his position and when the team was shorthanded.

• Coaches publicly called for more consistency.

• Doug:

  “I think this is probably a 10 out of 10 on the disappointment in development.” (36:52, Bill)

• Graham’s inability to seize a bigger role even with opportunity suggested a mismatch in development or fit.

B. James Peoples (RB) and Others

[41:41]

• Running back James Peoples started as a co-starter but was quickly surpassed and got ample opportunity.
• Other departures (e.g., Dominic Kirks, Devonte Armstrong) are seen as natural roster churn.

C. Players Remaining from the 2024 Class

[43:41]

• Five or so main 2024 recruits remain whose roles are uncertain, most at developmental positions (OL, TE, LB, DB).
• Discussion of whether Ohio State will keep adjusting its second-year development plans to retain more top talent.

7. Broader Implications and Future Questions

[45:20]

• The hosts want to press Ryan Day on whether the current pace of play and snap allocation is costing Ohio State long-term by stunting development and pushing players away.

• Doug:

  “Every football coach in America will tell you, and Ryan Day has said it, that there’s no substitute for live game reps...when you intentionally reduce the number of snaps…is that trade off worth it?” (46:23, Doug)

8. Where Do Portal Players Wind Up?

[47:18]

• Most OSU portal departures don’t transfer to other blue bloods; they mostly land at lower-tier Power 4 programs, where they can play immediately.

• “That’s just the way. That’s the circle of life in the transfer portal.” (47:18, Bill)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the effect on recruiting fandom:

  “I don't even know, like, if I want to follow recruiting anymore. Because you follow a class, they're here for two years, and you get to this point and six of the top nine are gone.”
  — Bill, [04:21]

• On updating player development timelines:

  “The first two are on us, the third one on you is, is sort of like officially antiquated thinking now…if there’s still that thought process…that probably needs to change because all that's going to do, I think, is lead to a lot of guys leaving after their second year.”
  — Doug, [06:29]

• Roster calculus shift:

  “You’re trading five-star recruits who haven’t played for max starters who have played. And listen, they're not gonna…bring in a max starter at corner to play…if they get somebody, it'll probably be a Power 4 guy. But…that certainty of playing time...if you don't have certainty on your own roster…you wind up in a situation where you might wind up trading Aaron Scott and Bryce West for some guy who wasn’t as highly rated as a recruit but has started for two years.”
  — Bill, [33:55]

• On possible solutions:

  “Do you need to save some of the resources you’re putting into the high school class and reallocate them to the transfer portal? Like, I don't. I don't know that there's a right answer.”
  — Doug, [34:46]

• On transfer portal cycle:

  “That’s just the way. That's the circle of life in the transfer portal.”
  — Bill, [47:18]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:36] – Breakdown of 2024 class turnover, portal numbers
• [06:29] – Debating development timelines, is “third year on you” outmoded?
• [10:49] – How lack of opportunities for young players accelerates transfer risk
• [14:52] – Jelani Thurman as an example of portal risk/reality
• [19:08 – 23:45] – Deep dive: Aaron Scott, missed opportunity, and playing time politics
• [33:55] – Is OSU shifting from special players to proven, if less-heralded, transfers?
• [34:46] – Should recruiting strategy shift (fewer HS signees, more saved for portal)?
• [36:52] – Mylan Graham’s trajectory and the challenge of wide receiver depth
• [41:41] – James Peoples, other natural attrition
• [47:18] – Destinations for departing Buckeyes; “circle of life” in the portal

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Takeaways

• Ohio State is at a crossroads in how it builds and develops its roster in the NIL and portal era, with the class of 2024’s attrition emblematic of broader trends in college football.
• Top recruits are leaving before seeing the field, sometimes reflecting both limited early opportunity and a program philosophy still catching up to the new, fast-paced reality.
• Portal calculus is now about balancing “what could be” with “what is”—sometimes meaning blue-bloods will rationally exchange unproven five-stars for established upperclassmen from elsewhere.
• The hosts voice sympathy for fans, players, and even coaches navigating this churn, and underscore that old rules about patience and development no longer consistently apply.

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Overall, this episode is an in-depth, thoughtful examination of Ohio State’s evolving approach to roster management. Bill and Doug combine firsthand insight with honest questioning about what works and what needs to change for the future of Ohio State—and college football at large.

Transcript

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[Bill Landis]

Why?

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[Bill Landis]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug show. Douglas and Bill Landis recording this on Monday morning January 5th. And we are deep in portal action. Bill Landis at least for Ohio State on the out portion of the portal. Two in so far for Ohio State as we record this and you know we're, we're very active over on our substack guys. You, you, you know what we do here by now. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com if you go over there, we have a chat every day, very active and we're talking about stuff. We're updating our portal tracker over there every in and out. We're writing about what is happening with the team with coaching stuff, with roster stuff. We did a gigantic substack show over there, two hours long. So like we have a lot going on over there. But every time something portal worthy happens, Landis, we're going to be here too. And we're going to be here for a lot of other reasons. We're going to have it around the shoe for coming on Monday. But like you know, when, if, if and when Ohio State lands some monster portal people, we'll be here talking about it.

[Doug LeMarise]

We will be talking about it. There's some coaching stuff to monitor. We did have a pretty good Cortez Hankton discussion on a substack show for our subscribers the other day. So that's uh, something you can get there too if you're thinking about subscribing. We do podcast there for, for uh, subscribers only, uh, twice a week. So a little bit of discussion of that there. Yeah, uh, there's a lot happening. I don't know that, you know, we're not gonna have a podcast every time every, like, little morsel of information comes out. But we will be sure to gather everything that has happened and talk about it as we record. And then I'm sure the news will break as we're recording because that's the way things go.

[Bill Landis]

Of course. No Dalton Riggs separate podcast. He's a long snapper from central Florida, so, yeah, so he's in. Mason Williams, the Ohio tight end who is basically a size and stats carbon copy of Will kasmeric, is in 17 Buckeyes are out in the portal as we talk here. Landis. I think last year it was 13 Ohio State players who won in the portal in the off season. So this is a little more turnover. But in particular, the 2024 class has really headed into the portal for Ohio State. So these are the players who just finished their second seasons of college. The top nine players by the 20247 composite ratings from the class of 2024. One of them is already gone because Air Noland left after last season. Five others of those top nine are in the portal right now, which means only three of those top nine from the class of 2024 are scheduled to get to their third year of football at Ohio State. What is your initial reaction to those kind of numbers?

[Doug LeMarise]

I don't know what to make of it. Like, seems like too high. Right. But I also, like, is it just the cost of doing business in college football these days? Like, I, I did not. And I'm not sure that you did either. Like, go back, go to compare it to other classes. I think probably we should do that. Like, I want to look at like, you know, not every recruiting class, but maybe like the, the territory that Ohio State recruits in, like top 10 classes, kind of, kind of teams. Like how, what, what's their, what's their rate of losing guys kind of by that point in their career? To get a better idea of where Ohio State stands. But I would say, you know, absent of that information, it does feel like a number that's a little high.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that class was ranked fifth overall in the 247 composite in 2024. And, you know, there's, there's a little consternation. It, it's, it's just the continuing evolution of the sport. But at Ohio State and a lot of places, especially the blue blood places like following recruiting and getting invested in recruiting, and which of these kids are going to choose your school is a fun and exciting and important part of being a college football fan. And we've had at least some reaction from people of like, I don't even know, like, if I want to follow recruiting anymore. Because you follow a class, they're here for two years and you get to this point and six of the top nine are gone. But, but part of the issue here, there's something like Urban Meyer said it one time, but I know I reference it all the time. I think you reference it a lot. I think we all who cover Ohio State reference it a lot. That the first two years of a player's career on the coaches and the third years on the player, that the two years of development and we're getting you fitter and stronger and we're teaching you the sport and we're developing your technique and we're giving everything, we're giving you everything you need to succeed. We're giving you the tools, we're investing in you. And then by year three, like you, you kind of have it and it's your, it's on you as a player to then use it to do something that year three is go time, and it's kind of on the player time. And the tough part of this bill is that when you look at six of the top nine players from the 2024 class not getting the year three, like they aren't, they aren't having that shot in Columbus of go time, but it makes me wonder, is there. I don't like failure is the wrong word, but did something happen in the process of development when the coaches and the staff are trying to get these guys ready to play that encourage these players like this? Listen, man, I don't think it's going to work out for me here, or at least it's not guaranteed. So I'm out. I'm going to go try somewhere else. Is there something going wrong in the first two years that there's six of nine out the door?

[Doug LeMarise]

Maybe. I do think that the, the, the first two are on us. The third one on you is, is sort of like officially antiquated thinking now, right? I don't think you can assume you have that much time with a guy. So maybe it needs to be like the first year's on us, the second year is on you, or like the first year is on us, the second year we're kind of working intended, but by the end of the second year, we need to know where, where this is going. I think both from the team side and from the player side because I just, I have a hard time out now. High State did have a couple of guys in the 2023 recruiting class who did wait around for three years for their, for their time to be a starter. I'm not saying it's, it's impossible, but I do think it's going to become sort of increasingly more difficult to just kind of bank on that with the way the players can move and the money that's being thrown around and some of the advice, good and bad that the players get. I just, I just think that's a hard thing to bank on. So I don't know if it's a reflection necessarily of Ohio State's like development being bad or let's just like, you know, on a position by position basis, them coming up a little short. But I would say if they're, if there's still that thought process in the building of two on us, one on you, then that probably needs to change because all that's going to do, I think is lead to a lot of guys leaving after their second year.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, and I do think so. I very much. Do you draw a distinction between losing a player in the portal who either has been a starter or is pretty much a hundred percent being counted on to be a starter the next year and somebody else, anybody else who's playing time has been uncertain or still remains uncertain in the future?

[Doug LeMarise]

Yes. And I, I would add to that sort of just like the bottom third of your recruiting class is just sort of like always in play for Churn and, and some of the guys that have left from the 2024 class would fall into that bucket. But yeah, otherwise, yeah, I think that's a good distinction.

[Bill Landis]

So when you think about that 2024 recruiting class, it had 22 commits overall. 10 are now gone or planning to be gone. One of the other things that happens is I would say that the, of the 12 that are still here, seven have either played or have a, a pretty clear idea based on some of the limited playing time of what their futures are. There probably are only five guys who are a little bit up in the air after two years and are not in the portal. So like we, I think we've talked about this for instance, with the player. Let's, let's use two players not in the class of 2024 as comparisons here. Okay. We can use one guy who's a year younger and one guy who's a year, a year older. A guy who's a year younger is Devin Sanchez who was a five star cornerback Recruit and had a role right away and was part of the dime package and played more than 300 snaps on the defense. And when Lorenzo Styles got hurt against Miami, became a starter, that had happened earlier in the year against Illinois when there was an injury to Styles and like, clearly had a role from the jump. And maybe it was like, oh, maybe some people thought he'd even play more, but that was a guy who was a priority recruit. We did a roster building series at the beginning of the year that, that Ohio State likes to think of, like maybe five or six guys in the class as first round picks. Devin Sanchez, as a kid from Houston who was a five star corner who everybody wanted, he's a, he's a five, a clear first round pick and he had a role right away and he had a role ahead of a couple of the guys from the class of 24 who are on the transfer portal right now. And I do think it is both. I mean, it's advantageous to the school if you like, if, if the player's good enough, you put them out there, but also the very, very best guys of your class that you feel like, we cannot lose these guys. We cannot have them getting antsy. Do you think a place like Ohio State would be encouraged to play guys like that earlier than they might have before because they're skilled enough and they can handle it? But also we have to keep these guys satisfied or we risk losing them out the door after two years when we would have been like, hey, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We, I promise you, we really think you're going to be a starter in year three. And the kid's like, why would I believe you? You've shown me nothing of that. If you, if it's a guy's a first round pick, you got to play him.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I think that's right. It's not. And it's, you know, it's, it's throwing the kid a bone, like to keep him engaged, I think is part of it. But also like, if you're the staff, you have to find out too. Like, I understand there's, that there's a part of this is like practice evaluations that we're not privy to and of course factor into it. And it's like a frustrating part of it because you just sort of take the coaching staff at their word when it's like, well, couldn't you, like, play these guys so we can watch them a little bit, But I do think you need to play young guys earlier. And this is also like Tied in with Ohio State's pace of play. It's right they don't have enough snaps to play young guys. If they played a little faster, they would. But if you look at some of the snap counts of some of these guys in the 2024 class that have, that have gone into the transfer portal already, I would, I would say.

[Bill Landis]

At.

[Doug LeMarise]

Least three of them are guys that I wish would have played a little more. Just to get a better idea of what exactly Ohio State's losing.

[Bill Landis]

Now.

[Doug LeMarise]

Ohio State has a pretty strong track record of losing players who then just kind of don't go on to hit elsewhere. I think eventually that will change.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug LeMarise]

So I guess you can like, you know, you can fall back on that a little bit, I guess, if you're trying to, to cope with these losses. But I do think Ohio State needs to play, play, find opportunities, play freshmen and sophomores more, which is like to say they need to probably play a little differently to make, to create those opportunities for themselves. Because I don't even know if you look at the 2025 class like there were, there were a handful of freshmen that played a decent amount, but like, there aren't a lot of guys in that class who played a ton either. So like, and, and are we going to be sitting here in the same boat a year from now thinking like, boy player X went out the door and we hardly saw him do anything and that was a highly rated guy? Like, I just, I just don't think that's a situation to be in. But not, not with what they're investing in these players. Like, you have to find out. You're wasting your money, you're wasting your investment, as Ryan Day calls it, if you're not playing these guys early just to figure out what you have and whether or not your investment's worth it.

[Bill Landis]

The second guy I would use as a comparison is Jelani Thurman, who was a year older than the class of 24. Guys in the class of 2023 stayed through three years at Ohio State, saw two different transfer tight ends in two different years come in ahead of him, and stayed to be what wound up as either the fourth or fifth tight end for Ohio State this season, had a limited role and now is in the portal. And I don't know, I certainly liked Jelani Thurman's potential. I don't know what the discussions were last off season for him, but in the end, if you're a class of 2024 guy and you look, you looked at what Jelani Thurman's season was this year. I think that would probably encourage you to say, like, I, I can't stick around for this because, and this is one of those again, where I, I don't think fans are upset like at players anymore. I think fans that they have, if, if they have angst, it's about the general, the general state of things, right? It's not like, I can't believe this kid's leaving us like that. That's not how the vast, vast, vast majority of fans think anymore. But Ohio State, like, to me, Jelani Thurman could have been Max Claire this year. And when Jelani Thurman got here, that's kind of what I thought Jelani Thurman might be, right, a little bit like a big, physical guy who can be a pass catching tight end. And instead of maybe giving Jelani Thurman that chance, or instead of believing that Jelani Thurman had earned that chance, they brought in Max Claire as an established guy from Purdue, played him on top of him, and then Jelani Thurman barely got to play and now he's gone. And I don't want to say, you know, I hope he had a per, I hope he had a fulfilling third year at Ohio State, but in terms of playing time, he didn't. So, like, that is, and that's the thing of this too, is that you can't, there's, there's, you always have to match the ins and the outs. But in this situation, Ohio State could have said, you know what, we've developed Jelani Thurman, we've invested in him. Maybe it's not been a straight line of development, but we're going to really give him a shot this year. We have Will Kazmarick, we have Bennett Christian, we have Nate Roberts. Like, we have some other guys. We're really going to give Jelani an opportunity. And instead they added Max Claire. So if you're a kid in 2024, I would look at that and say, like, I, I can't wait.

[Doug LeMarise]

I don't, I don't disagree with you. But I will say he's like kind of the only guy in that class who found himself in that position. Like, if you're in a 2023 class, you were either gone before last year started or before this, this season started or like biting your time kind of worked out, right? Like Brandon Ennis, captain worked out, Jermaine Matthews worked out. Carnell Tate was already playing. Jason Moore was hurt. So I don't think he'd Count him. Luke Montgomery played. Malik Harford got hurt. Lincoln Keenholtz backup quarterback. Arvell Reese stood. Josh Padilla played a decent amount. Will Smith Jr. Played a decent amount. Katie McDonald stood. Austin Seravel was a starter. I guess like Bryson Rogers is probably the only other guy like Bryson Rogers and Jelani Thurman are the two who like waited around to get their shot and there's like shot never really materialized. But like I, I think I, I, what I'm saying is like you're, I think it's a good example of like the bad outcome that could push somebody to the portal certainly. But I wouldn't say that the 2023 class was like full of those. I think the guys that did, most of the guys that did stick it out like kind of found a place.

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[Walmart Wellness Announcer]

Honey, do not make plans. Saturday, January 24th. Okay?

[Bill Landis]

Why?

[Walmart Wellness Announcer (Alternate)]

What's happening?

[Walmart Wellness Announcer]

The Walmart wellness event. Flu shots, health screenings, free samples from those brands you like.

[Walmart Wellness Announcer (Alternate)]

All that at Walmart.

[Walmart Wellness Announcer]

We can just walk right in, no appointment needed. Who knew we could cover our health and wellness needs at Walmart?

[Walmart Wellness Announcer (Alternate)]

Check the calendar. Saturday, January 24th.

[Walmart Wellness Announcer]

Walmart wellness event. You knew?

[Walmart Wellness Announcer (Alternate)]

I knew. Check in on your health at the same place you already shop. Visit Walmart, Saturday, January 24th for our semi annual wellness event. Flu shot. Subject to availability and applicable state law. Age restrictions apply. Free samples while supplies last.

[Bill Landis]

And I do think, but, and for instance, I think Arvell Reese and Kaden McDonald and Luke Montgomery and Austin, like those are all, those are all examples of guys who had enough on the line in the first two years that they could believe in year three that Arvell Reese and Kade McDonald had enough of a role in the defense situationally last year to believe that something was coming for them. Luke Montgomery had to play last year in a way that made him believe something was coming for him. Let's talk Specifically about the guys in 24 that are actually out the door and whether Ohio State could have persuaded them that something is coming for them. But also until we have all the ins, it's hard to evaluate the outs because we don't know the conversations. We don't pretend to know the conversations. But let's start with the player like Aaron Scott, who is. Was the number 4 by the 247 composite, was the number 4 player in the class for Ohio State, was a top 50 national kid, an Ohio kid. If Ohio. We had projected him, we did a depth chart before the transfer portal opened where we had Aaron Scott as a starter for next year. He's. He's the only guy who's gone on the portal that we, that we sitting in a hotel room in, in Dallas, Texas had projected as a starter for next year. And that was based on. We said if Jermaine Matthews comes back and Devin Sanchez rises up after playing more than Aaron Scott this year and, and assumes a starting role. But they have two guys to replace because both Lorenzo Styles and Davis and the big Gnosin are out the. We think based on the roster composition, Aaron Scott would be the next guy up. We'll project him as one of the three starters as a third year guy with a big recruiting pedigree who had performed well on special teams. We don't find that, that, that didn't feel weird to us to project Aaron Scott as a starter. Right?

[Doug LeMarise]

No, because also consider what Ryan Day said about Aaron Scott like in October, right? Like he. There was a game, it's the Washington game, I think, or the Minnesota game where he was making a bunch of kind of standout plays on kickoff coverage. And Ryan Day said Aaron Scott is like earning the opportunity to play more football. And like that never really happened.

[Bill Landis]

It didn't.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

So. So then why didn't it? Well, I, I would assume some chunk of it as well. The position coaches are in charge of who plays and they, everyone says special teams is a great way to earn your way onto the field, but if the position coach says, well, you know, like I just, it's not quite there yet or whatever, I don't know. Because why, why would the position coach have any other reason not to play? And then they think the guy's not ready or the guy isn't ready to help them defensively, right. Like I, there's nothing else. Why would it happen? So is he leaving? And Ohio State is now, Holy moly. We must go get a starting caliber corner in the portal. Because Aaron Scott is leaving or did Ohio State indicate we're gonna go get a starting caliber in the portal and we're just telling you where you stand or was there something in nil negotiations where who knows what I know, I don't know what's happening, but that there is some kind of discussion. And because this is the other thing too, it's like, well, you don't have to reveal necessarily what your plans are, but if you are having nil discussion money, it's like, is the school willing to pay you like a starter or not pay you like a starter? Which I think is some indication of what might be happening. Right. So, yeah, it could be either of those. It could be that Ohio State gave an indication that they didn't necessarily view this, this person after two years as a projected starter and so he left or they did do him as a projected starter and now they have to go replace him. And I don't know for sure, but Ohio State has not lost a ton of projected starters. Some of this to me, and this is maybe giving the, the program too much. The benefit of the doubt is if the guy is leaving. May my initial lean is that, well, maybe Ohio State did not view him as a starter in 2026 and that is why he is leaving. Not that they did view him as a starter and they somehow couldn't keep him. You know what I mean?

[Doug LeMarise]

So, yeah, I mean the results would tell you that that's, that's been the way of most of these departures. Right. I, I think, I do think we will get more examples of, of the guys who could have started here. I guess we just don't have that many yet. It's like Jameson Williams, which is an understandable departure given the receiver room at the time. And I think Hero Canoe is probably the only other one. And I think sometimes too, it's like, you know, Ohio State pledges X amount of dollars and then another school, Mike, pledged the same amount of money, but also like a starting job. And it's like, well, if I'm gonna take, like, if I'm not going to go to a place that's going to give me a starting job, then why don't you give me more money to stay here and be a backup kind of thing? And like, I think you can get. I'm not saying that's what happened with Aaron Scott, but I think, I think you can get into those conversations sometimes. I, I don't know, I guess I would say like nothing about the way that Ohio State utilized Aaron Scott this year told us that they were looking at him to be a starter in 2026. Right. Like, clearly they're looking like, thinking that way of Devin Sanchez. Right. Right. As a true freshman.

[Bill Landis]

And they could have done that like they had. They found a role for a fourth corner and part of it is in a dime package, so it's natural. But they, they could have played Aaron Scott.

[Doug LeMarise]

It could have rotated Scott and Sanchez, I think too. Sanchez ended up playing 323 snaps. That's a lot.

[Bill Landis]

Scott played like 120, right? Like, like they.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, he played 180 in his career. I think it was 120 this season. Like, again, without knowing the practice evaluations, I guess I just, I. I think. I think they could have embraced the opportunities to play Aaron Scott a little more to figure out what they had. And it didn't really seem like they were ever all that interested in doing so because even, like when guys went down. Right. Like, but they would just shuffle pieces around and not, not really give Aaron Scott a shot. So I'm not. And maybe in their eyes, like, he hadn't earned it. I'm not saying he definitely did, but that's, that's like part of the frustration and difficulty with some of this is like, you would. You would have just liked to see him play some. So you can have a pretty good idea of like, how exactly you should feel about Ohio State losing him. Because all you really have to guide you now is like, this guy was a five star and he never played. What's up? Right?

[Bill Landis]

And I do think it's two different discussions. One is a development and opportunity discussion for a player who was a highly rated and valued recruit and did he get enough of an opportunity and was he developed correctly to maximize his potential at Ohio State? That's one thing. And I think if you. Regardless of the specifics, I think it's somewhat fair to look at a five star who did not play much in two years and is leaving and view it as some kind of miss in development opportunity provided, whatever. Because the, the bottom line is you didn't really get anything out of him. He was a good special teams player and that's not nothing. But for whatever reason, he did not really help the defense. But then there's the. Given what the player is now and what the rest of the roster is and what the needs are and the expectations are for next year, how much is it of a loss is it for this player as he stands to not be on Ohio state's roster in 2026? And I think that is less so that, that is a. Not as much. That's if the first one is like maybe an 8 or a 9 out of 10, like man, this guy's a 5 star. You even give him a chance. And the other one is, well, you had a corner who didn't really play and there probably were shots to play him more and you didn't play him. And we have to see what the in is. But it feels like they're looking at some experience corners. And so if the starters next year wind up being Devin Sanchez, Jermaine Matthews doesn't go to the NFL and they add a portal corner who's a multi year starter at a Power 4 conference or at a, at a, you know, as a high level player from a group of six conference, then you lost a backup corner. Right, so then like that's, that's more like a three out of ten, right?

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I think so. And I do think there's something like to the way that Ohio State's been operating to suggest that the, the corners they're looking at are not in response to losing Aaron. A guy like Aaron Scott or a guy like Bryce west. It was, maybe they'll. The departures happened because Ohio State was plenty to look at those guys anyway.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, so the other. So then. So Aaron Scott was the number four player in the 2024 class. Number six players, Bryce west, another Ohio kid, another corner who had even less of an opportunity than Aaron Scott. I think everything we said about Aaron Scott applies to Bryce west, except Bryce west was, I think in the pecking order of young corners was behind Devin Sanchez and Aaron Scott. And unless you're turning over your whole room and looking for three starters next year, you, you probably aren't going to keep three rated young corners who are all looking to play. So I think it's just similar conversation but less so.

[Doug LeMarise]

I think that's right. Although like he was a guy I definitely thought could be the starting nickel next year, like that's kind of the position he was groomed to play. I think the difference with west and Scott is that these last two years and specifically in 2025, west was a little more firmly blocked, I think, than Scott was. Like, I think, I think Scott could have reasonably rotated into that dime roll and sort of had like a defined thing in tandem with Devin Sanchez and he could have learned a little more about him. Bryce west was behind Lorenzo Styles Jr. Who had a good season at nickel. And then like Jermaine Matthews was like, was clearly like the backup nickel. Like those are two pretty difficult guys to kind of leapfrog if you're a younger player, like Bryce West. So like, I, while I would have liked to see him play more, I, I understand a little bit why he didn't play more. But I still thought he had the opportunity to be the nickel because like, what, what couldn't the secondary configuration next year have been Sanchez, Scott, Matthews rotate on the outside and Bryce west plays nickel or whatever. Scott, Scott and Scott and Sanchez play outside, Matthews plays nickel and Bryce west is your dime back. Right. Like there were, I think there was an opportunity for him to play 100.

[Bill Landis]

And then this goes back to something that we had a long conversation on the substack show about. Like, does Ohio State feel like it needs to get older on defense? Because you look at the teams that are still alive right now, those four teams that are left, they have a lot of snaps, they have a lot of seasons of college football. More so than Ohio State, more so than Georgia, more so than Alabama. Ohio State in 2024 with their own guys who had stayed and not gone to the NFL. They were just had a lot of snaps and a lot of seasons under them. And if you look at projecting Ohio State, I think we projected for the defense something like, I think we had six projected first time starters on the defense of guys who were backups right now who are going to start. And that just creates a situation where you have a day one defense that doesn't have a lot of snaps under it. And so we had also discussed the idea of like, even if you like the guys, are you just looking for a little more balance there? So would you choose a couple positions and just think we have to be older, we have to be older at at least a couple spots. And the result is we're going to go look for a corner, we're going to go look for a defensive end or whatever. Right. And that, that then puts guys like this more at risk of not playing because like, so I, I agree with you.

[Doug LeMarise]

And well, the other, the other thing with that too is like, I think it's like less of. Because they're kind of, they're looking for defensive ends.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Doug LeMarise]

But you know, if you're, if you're like Zion Grady for instance, you know that even if Ohio State does bring in a defensive end, which seems like likely like you're going to play because you rotate on the defensive line.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug LeMarise]

And Ohio State like whatever four years ago just stopped rotating a corner. So I think that's the other thing that factors, factors into this position specifically.

[Bill Landis]

Well, there was. I asked Ryan Day a question about this at a time like 65 of the way into the season where they had a game where they did play some backup defensive players. And he. Part of his answer was development. You have to find out, but also keep the guys on the hook a little bit. And then, like, they didn't do that at all. Like at the. Down the stretch when it matters.

[Doug LeMarise]

They didn't play 57 snaps a game. Yeah, right.

[Bill Landis]

So. And there's like. And we do. I think we. We want to. Unlike the ncaa, which treats every single issue as completely separate from each other, there's a lot of things here about development, roster building, investment, resources, pace of play, rotation, opportunity. That is all linked together. And I do think we can ask. Next time we talk to Ryan Day, we can ask a lot of questions about pace of play as it relates to. If you're trying to keep guys fresh, is it the better strategy? Play as fast as you want and then just put the backups in because then the backups feel invested, the backups are more prepared, you get a better handle on development and you keep the guys fresh as opposed to this, which is just. There's just less opportunity for everybody. But if. If Ohio State had said we're are starting, we're gonna play four guys in three spots next year at corner and it's gonna be Sanchez, Scott west, and Jermaine Matthews.

[Doug LeMarise]

Would.

[Bill Landis]

Would that have been good enough?

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I mean, young, but yeah, I think. I think the talent's there, the pedigree is there.

[Bill Landis]

Do you understand if they would have been hesitant to do that? If that feels a little young to them in this day and age? I think five years ago, I don't know. That would have been it. That's it. That's who you're playing.

[Doug LeMarise]

Inexperienced is probably the more accurate way to say than you know, because you're talking about third year guys.

[Bill Landis]

Sure.

[Doug LeMarise]

I don't know that I would call third year guys young, but like, yeah, yeah, by. By just like pure snap count and particularly in high leverage situations, I would understand why they would be hesitant. But, like, that's also a problem of their own creation. So, like, I don't. I, I almost like, kind of blame them for.

[Bill Landis]

Yes. I also wonder how the lack of a spring portal window affects something like this, because this is the. You're shaping your roster now by the end of January, there's not a second opportunity, guys. You can't go through spring football with those four guys as your top three corners. And then be like, oh, dang right. We aren't so sure about this. We gotta go get somebody that. You can't do that anymore.

[Doug LeMarise]

You cannot.

[Bill Landis]

So I, I had written something about, on the sub stack about, at a place like Ohio State, the portal is losing what could be and bringing in what is. And now there's a couple, you know, if Ohio State gets Chaz Coleman from Penn State, who's only played 150 snaps when they got Davidson Igbosan as a first year player, Ole Missile, he started and played 100500 snaps like he was a pretty established guy as a true freshman. What Ohio State. And even like I, I made the comparison between Mason Williams, the, the Ohio tight end they're getting, and Jelani Thurman, the tight end who's on the way out for Ohio State. You know, Mason Williams was like ranked in, was like, there's like the 85th tight end in his class and Jelani Thurman was fourth. But because of opportunity, if Jelani Thurman had gone to Ohio University, he could have played 1200 snaps by now. But instead he's played 300 snaps and Mason Williams has played 1200 snaps. So I don't even know if it's conversation. Like, is, Is Mason Williams like better than Jelani Thurman? Well, he's more productive, he's more experienced, he's more certain. You know, and somebody in the chat was like, well, how certain is it is a Mac tight end? It's like, I don't know. Will Cast, he's Will Kazmarick and Will Kazmarick worked out and that Ohio State now is in a situation of we bring in a bunch of talented players and we can't develop them all. So the guys that remain, what ifs we have to risk losing to bring in the. What is that were developed at lower level schools and were lower level recruits, but therefore got an opportunity. So like that kind of trade off to me, I think would make Urban Meyer's head explode. Like you're trading, you're trading five star recruits who haven't played for max starters who have played. And listen, they're not gonna nest. It's not like they're gonna bring in a max starter at corner to play instead of they're gonna, if they get somebody, it'll probably be a power four guy. Right?

[Doug LeMarise]

But most of the guys are looking at our Power 4 guys.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, but like that, that certainty of playing time of we have film on you. We know you can do this. If you, if you don't have a lot of. The less certainty you have on your own roster just because of playing time, I think the more you want certainty from elsewhere. And you wind up in a situation where you might wind up trading Aaron Scott and Bryce west for some guy who wasn't as highly rated as a recruit but has started for two years. And you, you are wary of risking your roster, your starting spots on guys who haven't quite shown it all the way yet. And so you're going to get a guy who has shown it. And that is part of the new calculus. Is that. Is that not some correct description of the new calculus?

[Doug LeMarise]

It is. I think it is the new calculus. But then I also think that just sort of opens up a whole other box of questions about, like, then do you have to change anything about what you do on the front end of that? Like, like, we, I think we would say it on the substack shell. Like, we're coming off of a recruiting cycle where Ohio State just signed 28 high school kids. It's like, if we're going to have these conversations every off season about weighing the, the merits of recruiting pedigree and development against the ability to go out and get established experience, guys from other programs. Like, is 28 guys too much? Do you need to save some of the resources you're putting into the high school class and reallocate them to the transfer portal? Like, I don't. I don't know that there's a right answer. I think, I think a lot of teams are still trying to figure this out, but I, I do think is like, you look around the sport and see how much experience seems to matter right now. And the fact that Ohio State just lost a playoff game for a few different reasons, but I think one of them being, like Miami was pretty significantly more experienced than Ohio State, I would understand why Ohio State might be getting nudged in that particular direction in this off season.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think Aaron Scott might top the list in the Portal era for Ohio State of Ah, man, would have been great to see what that guy could do as a Buckeye. Is he at the top of the list?

[Doug LeMarise]

You mean so far? So far, yeah. I mean, I definitely felt that way about Noah Rogers when he left, but that has not panned out the way I thought it would. The receiver from the 2023 class, he's.

[Bill Landis]

In the portal again.

[Doug LeMarise]

He's back in the portal again. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. He's like fifth leading receiver this year or something like that. Aaron Scott might go somewhere and play.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I think I think he's got, it's got the chance to be the guy you sort of feel that the most about. Like, frankly, like I think of the, of the 2024 guys who left, like, I think, I think it's really only a conversation about those the two guys we mentioned in Myelin Graham and like the rest of the class, like the rest of the guys who have left, I, I think actually I understand and it's probably makes sense for them to do it.

[Bill Landis]

Mylan Graham, number three recruit in the class of 2024 by the 247 sports composite five star receiver and this one's tough. I, I almost he had more of an opportunity than Aaron Scott because they did have injuries this year and it just didn't happen. And Ryan Day publicly said like he has to get more consistent. And when the coach, when Ryan Day says anything like that about a player like I, I, that's pretty rare. That was, I think that was telling to a large degree. You know, he had a chance, had had a drop one of the times they threw him the ball. Had 12 targets, had six catches this year. Did play a ton in the UCLA game when Cornell Tate was hurt and like did not really show himself to be a guy who, who you would be thinking like, man, this guy's ready to pop in year three. So I think this is much more, I mean I think this is probably a 10 out of 10 on the disappointment in development. Did get somewhat of an opportunity in year two. I think there was more opportunity there. I think if he clearly had shown himself that he was ready to play, I think he could have squeezed in maybe from time to time as the fourth receiver. They didn't have a fourth receiver this year and they wound up in a spot where they're one of their top two receivers. Missed three games. If he was the clear fourth receiver and ready to go, he would have gotten some pretty good run. And instead it got to the Rutgers game when Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate were both hurt and it felt like they had no receivers. So I'm not surprised this happened and it would have taken, I think a shake up of something like that felt like the development, for whatever reason, whether it's on the program or whatever else, the development was not on the track that you would have expected. And so I'm not, I'm not surprised that this is the case. And if Brandon Ennis and Jeremiah Smith are back next year, if Chris Henry Jr. As a true freshman is ready to do something, if Quincy Porter, who has hurt a Bunch of this year as a second year player is ready to do something. If those are your top four receivers, you seem like you're in quite, quite good shape for Ohio State. And so then where, where does Mylan Graham fit in? But man this is, this is tough for a guy that people were very high on when he got here.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah. And I tell me if you agree, like I, if I say any five star receiver who comes into the program, which my own Graham was a composite five star by the end of year two they should have like 25 targets. So you can feel like you have a pretty good idea of what you have. Yeah happen. Right. And like he had 12 and, and like granted like he didn't do a lot with them. I'm not saying, I'm not saying he did but I still don't know if there was enough opportunity given there. And again you know, was it earned? I don't, I, I couldn't tell you clearly. As you mentioned, Ryan Day was looking.

[Bill Landis]

For more but they consistent. But he could have the Rutgers game he didn't even start right. Like, yeah, like, like he played a lot against UCLA and then the Rutgers game when they were missing their two best receivers. He was not at all a part of the solution and I think that that should have been the game where he had nine targets and I think by then it was already proof that something was off track and that we were, that we were headed towards this. So I have no idea what happened. And best of luck to Mylan Graham and, and the a world where his position coach is also calling plays for the first time and you know like that's a different situation than Ohio State receivers had been in previously where Brian Hartline was giving every ounce of effort just to that receivers room. But this just this got off track and, and I, I mean once, once, once he didn't do much when the guys were hurt and Ryan Day said, and we said like why isn't he playing more? And he said it's about consistency. I would have guessed he was going.

[Doug LeMarise]

To transfer it kind of. Yeah, it kind of felt like it was, it was destined to end here at this point. But I'm just like I'm looking through the game log right. Like they, whatever the, whatever the Grambling score was, they won by a billion. He had one target, Minnesota. Quite the comfortable win for Ohio State. He played a couple of snaps to not get a target. Had the seven against UCLA and only had three catches. Like it wasn't, wasn't great. One target against Rutgers and Then like obviously didn't play against Michigan or Miami much. So like. Yeah, I just, it's easy for us to say you should have given the guy more chances. But I, I do think I, I feel that with all three of these guys that, that I, I wish we could have seen them play a little more to just again have a better understanding of what's walking out the door.

[Bill Landis]

I mean David Adolf was getting more run than him as a walk on.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, yeah. Which like maybe, like maybe that's like that's the answer. Right. Like they view David Adolf as a more playable entity than Myelin Graham. So here we are. But it's just hard to square a five star guy kind of not working out here because you know they typically do.

[Bill Landis]

And it was. This wasn't one of those where he was in a five receiver class. Sometimes they have like they bring in so many guys there's no way all five are going to hit like this. That was not the case here and it still didn't hit. So the other. So those are three of the guys, they're top nine recruits who, who are in the portal. The others who are in the portal now are James Peoples at running back who did get a chance and then kind of gave way to Bo Jackson and Isaiah West. So that's a completely different situation. They counted, they saw James Peoples as a co starter and I think ready to be their number one back. And like before the season would not have most people on the beat said who's going to lead Ohio State in rushing yards? Would they have said James Peoples?

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah, look, but he, he got a, I think 110 carries is plenty of carries to know whether or not the running backs got it. And I just, he fell down the pecking order.

[Bill Landis]

So completely different situation. Aaron Nolan, he was number seven in the class. Aaron Nolan was number five. He's already gone. They basically just swapped him for Julian Saying and then Dominic Kirks in the defensive line was number nine and just never was really part of anything. Right. Those are the six, the other four guys in this class who are in the transfer portal. Devonte Armstrong on the offensive line, Demarian Whitten as a receiver, tight end Sam Dixon at running back and Nick McClarty as a punter. So those are the 10 who are out the guys who like and this is an example of what you do with a second year guy. And here he is, Jeremiah Smith. Edric Houston was a co starter at defensive tackle this year. Ian Moore started a game at right tackle. When Philip. Philip Daniels was hurt and then was put in the game in the second half against Miami at left tackle when Austin Seravel was out, was clearly their third tackle. I think played well when given the opportunity. And I would bet, I mean, are we not almost at 100% that Ian Moore is the starting left tackle next year? That they are. He is on track to start right.

[Doug LeMarise]

Like a starting tackle. Yeah. Left side, right side. Yes.

[Bill Landis]

So. So I think like he. He's a more an offensive lineman. Are different. Right. Offensive linemen aren't champ enough to bed. Oh, my gosh. I haven't played in the first years. What are we gonna do? But he's on track. Peyton Pierce at linebacker, had a clear role. Third linebacker on the field all the time. More than 300 snaps. Gabe Van Sickle second. You know, on the second team on the offensive line, given the opportunity, made his first start against Miami. Like he at least can see where the opportunity might be coming. And again, offensive linemen are different. Jayla McLean started at safety, had a great year in year two. And then Leroy Roker, also at safety, had a role in a dime package like here and there. You would see him out there a little bit. Enough that I think Leroy Roker could think there's something more still out still there. For me, the five guys who are in that class and maybe haven't had a clear role yet, but are still here at the moment. Garrett Stover at linebacker, Max LeBlanc at tight end. Tell me if I'm still right on all these. Deontay Armstrong, who is the twin brother of devonte. One is in the portal, one is still here. Miles Lockhart as a db, and Eric Mensah on the defensive line.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, those are. Did you say Max LeBlanc?

[Bill Landis]

Yes.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, yeah, those are the guys. And I don't know. I don't know what to make like. I think like Garrett Stover might play like 250 special team snaps next year. So, like, I think maybe he can see a role for himself in that way. The rest of them, I'm a little less certain. But you're also talking about like tight end, O line, like some more developed developmental type positions where guys can be a little more patient. So I think Mensa might have had some injury stuff. I think Miles Lockhart might have been on the report a time or two. So there's some of that factored into this too. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

So we, we do have questions for Ryan Day about do that. The job they feel like they're doing in developing and Providing opportunity for guys, I think, particularly in their second year. Because if anybody has a true freshman, like, it's just hard to. You're a true freshman at Ohio State. It's really hard if you're not Jeremiah Smith. But year two is a reasonable time to start getting a taste and for the program to figure out who you are and for you as a player to start figuring out how you fit into this. And if looking at 10 of your 22 are out the door by year two, is there something that's not matching up there? Is there something that Ryan Day feels like Ohio State can do better, should do better to make sure that they are getting the most out of their investment in these players, particularly the ones who are, you know, very difficult to get in recruiting, and that they are giving a fair opportunity to these guys who came to Ohio State with an expectation of having a chance to show what they can do. I think there's some fair questions to ask.

[Doug LeMarise]

I think so too. Like they. Every football coach in America will tell you, and Ryan Day has said it, that there's no substitute for live game reps when it comes to development. So when you intentionally reduce the number of snaps in a game for the long term benefit of being healthy in the postseason, it comes at the expense of development for your younger players. Is that trade off worth it?

[Bill Landis]

Well, can you just, you want to, you want to text him that?

[Doug LeMarise]

Maybe.

[Bill Landis]

I don't think it's like indicative. We would have no reason to believe this of like a culture issue or something's going on with the program. Everybody's leaving. I think it's just playing time. Guys want to play.

[Doug LeMarise]

No, I don't think it's a cultural issue. No. Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's. I don't know, whatever. 85 related to playing time and 15 related to nil. Right. Like, or maybe. But those are the two factors.

[Bill Landis]

And I will be very curious where some of these guys land. I don't know that like all these guys are going to Georgia. That what happens a lot of times is guys who are highly rated recruits who went to a place like Ohio State and didn't play, then they wind up at a power four school that is a tier two down from Ohio State, which is great, right? I mean, fantastic. But like, that's how usually what happens is like the really good players that develop at the lower tier schools then get scooped up by the higher tier schools and the highly rated prospects who don't quite develop at the high tier schools then Give the lower tier schools opportunity at maybe raw talent that they would never would seldom get out of high school. And that's just the way. That's the circle of life in the transfer portal. So very curious to see where these guys wind up. And best of luck to all of them.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah, I don't. I mean, I think even if you look at like last year, like Hira Canoe went to Texas, but I don't know, he's like Baylor, Virginia, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Indiana, which I guess is good for Zamolski. Pitt, South Carolina, Boise State, Cal, Colorado state, Wisconsin. Like P.4 opportunities. Yeah. But like, like few if any going to places that you would say, like, well, he ended up in a better spot than he was at Ohio State. Right.

[Bill Landis]

And I know like Ohio State didn't love losing Zen Mahalski last year. They weren't like, oh, well, see you later. They were like, that's a. That's a depth piece for us. But Indiana came in and offered him more money and more opportunity and we lost him. And. And like that aggravates Ohio State in the new world. But that's exactly how the new world is supposed to work. And Zen Mahalski wouldn't have started here because he didn't start it at Indiana. But I think there are guys higher on the list here than. Than that. Okay.

[Doug LeMarise]

Yeah. I do think Graham. I think Graham and Scott and Wes might get some decent opportunities. We'll see.

[Bill Landis]

Scott is the one. Scott I think is. Is a number one of like. And. And here's the other thing, by the way. He's in the portal. He's not gone. There have been Ohio State guy. Like I don't. Who knows. But right.

[Doug LeMarise]

True.

[Bill Landis]

Sam Williams Dixon went in the portal last year and then didn't go. Bryson Rogers went in the portal last year and then didn't go. Like Ohio State got him to stay. That happens all the time. So sometimes it's, you know, we have to threaten to break up to prove how much we care about each other. Right. I'm not.

[Doug LeMarise]

It just happened. Pretty high profile one at Louisville. Isaac Brown. They're running back one of the portal and then came back. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. So anyway. All right, that's it. We'll have around the shoe coming later on Monday. We'll have a bunch more stuff coming this week every. I would expect any time there's like a really major portal get for Ohio State. You can expect to see our giant heads and boxes for now. We appreciate you guys being here as always. Go check out the substack Bill and Doug osu.substack.com like subscribe. Tell a friend about the show. He's Bill andis. I'm Doug LeMarise, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.