Ohio State, Indiana, Miami and more -- How many college football teams can win the national title?

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State, Indiana, Miami and More — How Many Teams Can Win the National Title?

Date: October 23, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises, Bill Landis
Guest: Ari Wasserman (On3)
Podcast: Blue Wire

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EPISODE OVERVIEW

The Bill and Doug Show dives deep into the national title picture, asking a fundamental question: How many college football teams can truly win the national championship in 2025? With special guest Ari Wasserman, the hosts move beyond standard playoff or top-10 talk to a substantive, team-by-team breakdown, peppered with sharp insights, debate, and laughs. The conversation is Ohio State-centric but stretches wide across the college football landscape, highlighting key programs, trends, parity, and the shifting power balance between conferences.

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SECTION 1: OPENING THE NATIONAL TITLE RACE (03:16)

Framing the Debate: Not Just Playoff Teams

• The hosts aim to separate teams with a real shot at winning a title from mere playoff hopefuls.
• Doug: “This is not a playoff conversation. This is a ‘who can actually go win three or four straight against the best teams’ conversation." (04:40)
• Each panelist offers an initial number:
  • Bill: 9 teams plus one with an asterisk
  • Ari: 10, with an asterisk
  • Doug: 6, with a tough standard

Why the List Has Grown

• Ari reflects on how five years ago, one would simply check the top five talent teams and the champion was almost guaranteed to come from there, but the new era (NIL, transfer portal, shifting conference power) has flattened the field and expanded the pool of possible champions (06:23).

Ari: “I used to just look at the talent list, pick from the top five, and I’d have been right 20 out of 21 years... Now? Maybe 22 teams could do it before the year. Now that we’ve seen the teams, 6 to 11 feels right.” (05:36)

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SECTION 2: THE IMPACT OF THE 12-TEAM PLAYOFF (06:55)

• Hosts discuss the shift from a four-team to a 12-team playoff and how it fits the new landscape of greater parity.
• Ari: "I hated it at first… But now the sport has shifted… and those spots might be necessary. In 2019? Would have made the regular season pointless. Now, it has a purpose.” (07:05)

Bill: “It’s a happy accident … NIL and the portal just flattened things out, and now more teams matter. If this was Saban’s heyday, a 12-team playoff would have been pointless. Now, it finally makes sense.” (07:59)

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SECTION 3: TEAM-BY-TEAM, WHO CAN WIN THE TITLE?

Ohio State — THE BENCHMARK (10:05)

All three agree: Ohio State is in “super team” mode—once again the standard-setter in college football.

• Doug: “Is this just another edition of one of the most talented teams in the country mowing over the competition?” (11:08)
• Ari: “...I’m surprised. I wrote columns last year saying the era was over, but this team feels like a super team again. Are you surprised they’re still in super team mode, deep in the NIL era?” (13:00)
• Bill and Doug detail why Ohio State has weathered recent changes better than any SEC blueblood:
  • Elite retention, little attrition via transfer
  • Ability to selectively fill needs through portal
  • Depth of homegrown and regional talent, but with just the right “magic touches” via out-of-region stars (e.g. Jeremiah Smith)
• Bill: “It’s like that ‘Mount Buckeye’ is always there. The individual peaks from the SEC aren’t jutting up as much anymore.” (22:45)
• Ari: “There’s half the teams on my list I don’t think could even be in the same game as Ohio State right now.” (19:20)

Notable Exchange:

Ari: “Are you anywhere close to asking the Death Star question about Ohio State?” (12:55)

Bill: “I think Ohio State’s just built a little different... I don’t think anyone’s going to dominate the sport like that again.” (14:04)

Doug: “They’ve been less affected by change than anyone. They’ve managed retention, the portal, NIL and have a big city and alumni base to help. I don’t know that they’re better than the last 10 years, but they’re not looking up at the glut of SEC talent anymore.” (17:07)

Indiana — THE ASCENDANT (35:26)

• All agree Indiana is now in the conversation—especially after whipping Oregon in Eugene.
• Bill: “You asked me after Indiana-Oregon, can they win a title? Yes. It sounds weird but…yes, of course.” (35:37)
• Ari and Doug parse whether Indiana’s level of success is sustainable: can Kurt Cignetti keep working portal magic, or does he need to build from high school recruiting? (39:54)
• Ari: “How many years of Indiana doing this before it stops being weird they’re on this list?” (36:29)
• All acknowledge Indiana’s leap in physicality and line play, not just skill players.

Oregon — THE SCARRED BUT DANGEROUS (49:49)

• All three put Oregon on their list, even after the Indiana loss.
• Doug: “Oregon looks mad again. I don’t think the Indiana game exposed flaws—I think Indiana just took care of business. Now Oregon might beat people by 50 the rest of the way.” (50:53)
• Ari: “Every level on both sides of the ball has a playmaker. I was surprised Indiana beat them not because of Indiana, but because Oregon’s that solid.” (51:56)

Alabama — THE SURVIVOR (53:16)

• Bill, Ari have Bama; Doug not convinced.
• Doug: “I do not see any world where Bama can win three straight games against the best teams in the country.” (57:32)
• Ari: “If you examine every team as closely, you’ll see flaws. Their ‘cannot’ feels one step too far to me. Not my pick, but not off the list yet.” (58:42)
• Bill: “They're not a juggernaut, but I don't know if anyone is this year.” (58:56)

Notable Data Points:

• Bama’s success rate: 31st offense, 73rd defense—not championship level? (56:34)
• Bill: EPA margins and four straight top-15 wins keep them in the conversation.

Miami — THE PHYSICAL IMPOSTER? (64:00)

• Ari and Bill defend Miami despite a surprising Louisville loss.
• “Their front seven is special. Best O-line in the country….I was shocked they got pushed around Friday.” (64:04)
• Ari: “If they don’t have to put it all on Carson Beck, they can do it.” (66:25)
• Doug: “Similar to James Franklin at Penn State—Mario Cristobal still needs to prove it in big moments.” (67:02)

Notre Dame — BATTLE-TESTED (70:44)

• Doug’s preseason title pick; all three include them.
• Ari: “They don’t control their destiny; especially with the expanded field…they need help. But don’t count good losses out. If they run the table, their losses (Miami, A&M) could look as good as anyone’s.” (71:42)
• Bill: “It matters they’ve been through the playoff. That institutional knowledge counts.” (77:41)

Texas A&M — THE SOUL-SEARCHER (78:09)

• All three: In. Mike Elko keeps his teams calm and resilient in close games, schedule sets up for a trip to Atlanta (79:05).
• Ari: “In the past, they always lost those games. Winning at Notre Dame almost felt like a hex was lifted from the program.” (80:19)

Georgia — THE LUCKY HOLDOVER? (81:36)

• Bill and Ari include Georgia, Doug argues against.
• Doug: “They should have three losses. Miracle win vs. Tennessee, officiating gift at Auburn, and Ole Miss collapse. If Gunner Stockton makes plays, it’s because he’s always in crunch time. At some point, they won’t make the play.” (84:36)
• Ari: “Aura and talent keep them in the conversation, barely. But they’re not my first, second, third, or fourth pick.” (83:49)

Texas Tech — THE FRANKENSTEIN (92:23)

• Bill and Ari include them, not Doug.
• Bill: “I think the defense is legit. You go to Utah and dominate them up front, that means something.”
• Ari: “They have the kind of top-line talent the rest of the Big 12 just doesn’t have." (94:52)
• Notable: PFF pressures—Texas Tech has three of the top four "pressure guys" in Power Four.

Honorable Mentions / Asterisks:

• USC (Bill’s asterisk): “Might have the best offense in the country…with extra time to prepare in the playoff, you might not want to see them.”
• Ole Miss: Ari (initially) puts them on, but after pushback on their defensive metrics, pulls them off: “Yeah, I think I was falling into the SEC trap.” (97:14)
• Texas: Consensus: offensive line too poor, not considered a real threat.

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SECTION 4: THEMES, QUOTES, & TRENDS

• The End of SEC Supreme Power?

  • The hosts repeatedly challenge the idea that the SEC is still as dominant and discuss the “flattening” of the sport’s talent pool.
  • Ari: “Now you watch Ohio State play and it doesn’t even look like they’re breaking a sweat. Every other team has to strain for wins.” (27:47)
  • Parity is up, super teams are harder to recognize.

• The Transfer Portal & NIL Era

  • Retention and targeted retrieval from the portal are more valuable than ever.
  • Ohio State’s consistency in an era where others are being “thinned out” by player movement is a major talking point.

• Southern Bias and National Narratives

  • The hosts rail against the southern CFB bias in polls, strength of schedule, and public perception.
  • Ari: "The loser in the north just fades, but in the south, you’re still a good team. The winner is 'proven' and the loser is still respected." (49:00)

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SECTION 5: NOTABLE QUOTES & MEMORABLE MOMENTS

• Doug to Ari (about his old “Death Star” Georgia take):

  “There is a notion that there is a ton of parity in college football this year… Are we overthinking it? If [blank] goes into Death Star mode, is it just another edition of one of the most talented teams mowing over the competition?” (11:08)
  (Ari was referencing Georgia in 2023; now the question applies to OSU in 2025.)

• Ari on Miami:

  “Their front seven… special. One of the best O-lines in the country. But then Louisville pushed them around and that shocked me.” (64:04)

• Ari on the importance of investing in life's daily pleasures:

  “If you do something every day and it’s the thing you enjoy most, don’t cheap out on it—buy the best. Never cut corners on the things you love the most.” (124:06)

• On the 'SEC insists upon itself' trope:

  “You know, four ranked wins in a row; I know the SEC insists upon itself, but winning those is the closest thing to showing you can win four in a row anyone has done this year.” – Ari, on why Alabama stays on his list (57:32)

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SECTION 6: FINAL TALLY — WHO CAN WIN IT ALL? (100:26)

Unanimous Picks:

• Ohio State
• Indiana
• Oregon
• Miami
• Notre Dame
• Texas A&M

Bill & Ari Also Include:

• Alabama
• Georgia
• Texas Tech

On the Bubble / With Asterisks:

• USC (Bill's asterisk pick)
• Ole Miss (Ari initially, then removes)
• Vanderbilt, Missouri, Tennessee (mentioned as longshots by odds only, not by the panel)

Teams Not Making Anyone's List:

• Texas (due to offensive line)
• Ole Miss (due to defense)

Betting Odds Recap (100:26):

• Favorites: Ohio State (+260)
• Alabama (+650)
• Indiana (+800)
• Oregon (+950)
• Texas A&M & Notre Dame (11-1)
• Georgia (12-1)
• Miami (17-1)
• Others trail

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SECTION 7: SEGMENT HIGHLIGHTS

On Indiana and Sustained Success (39:54)

• Can a portal-based program keep winning, or will it hit a wall without a Top 20 high school recruiting base?

  “How many Portal Kings have come to the playoff?... At a certain point you need to revert back to signing top 20 classes to remain consistent, and I don’t know the answer yet.” – Ari

On Southern Bias & Perception (29:56)

• Ohio State's lack of "sexy wins" is treated differently than Georgia's easy schedule was, despite similar “defending champ” status.

Committees & “Good Loss” Politics (73:06)

• Would a 10–2 Notre Dame win a comparison with a 9–3 Alabama who beat Georgia?
• “No one gives a crap if Notre Dame beats Pittsburgh—unless Pitt is 9–2. SEC teams don’t get doubted like that.” — Ari (74:50)

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SECTION 8: WHAT YOU WATCHING, EATING, THINKING (102:06)

Highlights:

• Watches: “Task” (HBO), “Black Rabbit” (Netflix/Jason Bateman), Tim Robinson’s Chair Company (HBO)
• Eats: Fried rice (Ari: “Best non-American carb!”), breakfast burritos (Bill’s top five), root beer on tap (Doug: “If you don’t order it, you’re a psychopath.”)
• Thinks:
  • Always buy quality for crucial daily habits (Ari)
  • Paris jewel heist: “Are we allowed to think a jewel heist is cool as long as no one gets hurt?” (Bill)
  • Cover band economics – who gets paid what and is it fair? (Doug)

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CONCLUSION

The 2025 college football season features a wider field of legitimate national title hopefuls than ever before, thanks to transfer portal dynamics, NIL, and the expanded playoff. While Ohio State sits atop the heap, perennial powers like Alabama and Georgia are now much closer to the pack, while programs like Indiana, Oregon, Notre Dame, Miami, and Texas A&M are firmly in the championship conversation. Throughout, the panel pushes back on southern bias and celebrates the new, more egalitarian era of college football—where, for the first time, plenty of teams can dream about winning it all.

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QUICK REFERENCE: TEAMS DISCUSSED

| Team | Unanimous? | Panelists Include | |---------------|------------|-------------------| | Ohio State | Yes | All three | | Indiana | Yes | All three | | Oregon | Yes | All three | | Notre Dame | Yes | All three | | Miami | Yes | All three | | Texas A&M | Yes | All three | | Georgia | No | Bill, Ari | | Alabama | No | Bill, Ari | | Texas Tech | No | Bill, Ari | | USC | Asterisk | Bill | | Ole Miss | No | (Initially Ari) |

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

Always doesn't matter how busy I am, what I'm doing, where I'm at. I'm on the show if I'm asked. So I appreciate you guys being here. I'm hoping to see you both in a few weeks because I'll be in Columbus for the Penn State game plans that were clearly made before. Oh, whatever happened in State, college happened. But I'm coming, and I'm looking forward to coming back to Columbus. I missed the place.

[B]

Nice. Well, it's great to have you here. We're here to talk national title race, and then we're going to do what you at the end, what you watching, what you eat and what you're thinking. So we'll just, like, get through this football stuff, because people just really want to hear us talk about French toast and Dumb and Dumber reruns or whatever. Right. So, like, we know what the people want. Let's start. So this is not a playoff conversation. This is a national title conversation. And what we are attempting to do is figure out how many teams right now we think can win the national title. Bill Landis. How many? Just give us a number first. How many teams do you think have a chance to win at all?

[D]

I came up with nine, and then I have a. I have, like, a tenth. That's like an asterisk that I think they could, but I'm not sure they're gonna get in the other nine. I feel, like, a pretty realistic chance of getting in.

[B]

Okay. Ari, how many do you have?

[C]

I have 10 with an asterisk. Is that how you say that word? I'm not good at English, and mine isn't about whether or not they can get in. It's a matter of whether I. Like. I want you to talk me in and out of it, because I don't know.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And that team is. Ohio State.

[B]

Is Toledo. I only have six.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

And it is because there are some teams that I probably reluctantly would admit are good, but I'm not sure the way they have played that I think they can win three or four straight and beat good teams repeatedly. So, like, my bar is pretty high. My bar is not like. It's. It's that, Bill. It's. Can you win three straight against the best teams in the country?

[D]

Yeah. Which is a good way to think about it, I think, because it is. And all you have to do is remind yourself of, like, the gauntlet that Ohio State had to go through last year to. To even get to Atlanta. Let alone win once it got there. It is not. It is no longer merely a conversation of, I think this is a good team that has a really high ceiling. It's like, can they put it together four games in a row against awesome teams?

[B]

Right?

[D]

Yeah, it's a pretty high bar.

[B]

So, Ari, you. You were saying you thought a couple weeks ago your list would have been longer.

[C]

Yeah, well, I struggle with this conversation because if we were to have this podcast five years ago, like, I would just go look at a talent list and just pick one of the top five teams there, and I would be done with it and would have been right 20 out of 21 years. Now it's. Do you still believe that there's a certain baseline talent level that a team has to possess in order to do it? I've come off of that pretty heavily in the last two years. And then on top of the. The piece that you were saying, which is, do you think that this team, even with the talent, can put together three or four games in a row? And I was a little bit more liberal with teams that conceivably could do it because, you know, I always leave the door open, I guess maybe for the remarkable to happen, because I've been wrong so many times because of the.

[B]

Remarkable.

[C]

And I'm very curious to see which three I have. That wouldn't make your list, and I think you might. I wonder if I could change your mind or vice versa. But yeah, yeah, it's. It usually like back in the day you used to do, there would be. The answer was six before the season started. And I think before the season started, the answer might have been like 22. Now that we've seen games play out and records and resumes are starting to take shape, you know, 6 to 11 at this point in the year makes sense to me.

[B]

Can I ask a side question before we get into our lists? Where are you, ari, on the 4 team vs 12 team playoff? As we sit right now, I've come.

[C]

Around to being okay with it. I hated it when it. When it happened because I thought it was unnecessary. But now the sport has shifted where it's 22 teams instead of six, and I think those spots might be necessary. And like the Cam Scatter Boo thing that happened last year where nobody knew who he was or, you know, casual fans that know he was and then got to see that happen and play out in the playoff, I thought was a net positive for the league or for the. For the entire sport. And now I think these games are necessary if it Would have been like a 12 team playoff in 2019 when LSU won it. It would have just been, you know, you would have taken away from the regular season for no reason. And now I think taking away from the regular season has a purpose. So I've thus changed my mind in the last few years.

[B]

I will say, Bill, like, is that purposeful, do you think? Or did. Did college football just get lucky?

[D]

No, they got that.

[B]

They did two completely separate things that coincidentally matched up.

[D]

Yeah, no, nothing is, nothing is purposeful. They got incredibly lucky. No one, nobody could anticipate what was going to happen roster wise with the combination of nil, rev share and transfer portal. But it did flatten out the sport. And then now that the sport has been flattened out, I agree with our like 12 teams. Makes a lot of sense. If this was like Saban's heyday, a 12 team playoff, what the hell would have been the point? Right? Yeah, but, but now it's, it's just, it's, it's very different. I don't think anyone's going to dominate the sport and accumulate talent quite in that same fashion ever again. So it's just a happy accident that the two things sort of happen.

[C]

And 12 is a number that they arrived at based on five power conferences existing. And those don't even exist anymore.

[B]

Like right.

[C]

The entire way that the conferences are met are, are made up now. It doesn't even make mathematical sense on how they crown champions. And all those, all those things. So 12 and all the at large bids that you get in there are necessary because now we can't even properly crown. If you go look at the ACC in the SEC right now, I don't think we're going to be able to crown a champion without using tiebreakers to get into the title game, which is we're going to use tiebreakers for their own conference championship. How are we going to crown the national championship without these extra spots? So yeah, it's, it, the number's right. But I still think the system's weird.

[B]

In a situation where we have five power conference undefeated teams remaining. Like I've been, I have thought a little bit about the idea of if we were in a four team world and you kind of were like, well, I think if Ohio State and Indiana both are 12 and oh into the Big Ten title game, maybe they're both in. Then you have the SEC champ and then you have either the ACC or the Big 12 champ. You have one of those two. But how do you decide like that? And it just like that kind of thing anymore that makes my stomach hurt as compared to what this is. So. Okay, let's. Let's go like this. Let's do it by. We'll. We'll go. We'll rotate. Bringing up a team. Now, when you bring up a team, it has to be a team that you think can win the national title. That is on your list. And then we'll figure out if the other two people also have that team on the list. So, Bill, we'll start with you. Who do you want to start with?

[D]

Ohio State. Oh, is there.

[C]

Is there a discussion necessary for this one or.

[D]

Like, I figured we can get the easy one out of the way early.

[B]

Okay, so we all agree that Ohio State can win the national title?

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. I actually, I'm not. My intent is not to ambush ari, but I'm 25 going to ambush Ari.

[D]

Here.

[C]

Do it 100.

[B]

Because here's a quote that I found and it gives me great joy to, like, put Ari Wasserman and then some, like, words that would lead to a college football take into the Google machine and have it pop up. There is a notion that there is a ton of parity in college football this year. A lot of teams still look very good in the playoff race, but are we overthinking it? If blank team goes into Death Star mode, is it just going to be another edition of one of the most talented teams in the country mowing over the competition?

[C]

I said that.

[B]

Do you know who you said that about?

[C]

When did I say it?

[B]

You said it in October of 2023. On October 28, 2023, you tweeted it.

[C]

Then I would probably be Bama or Georgia.

[B]

It was Georgia and it was Georgia. When Georgia was 8 0, they were beating opponents by an average score of 41 to 15. And at that point in the season, here were the teams that Georgia had beaten. They'd beaten UT, Martin, Ball State, South Carolina by 10 and South Carolina was 2 and 6 at that point. UAB, they beat Auburn by 7 and Auburn was 4 and 4. They beat Kentucky 51, 13 and Kentucky was 5 and 3. They beat Vanderbilt by 17 and Vanderbilt was 2 and 7. And they beat Florida 43 to 20 in. Florida was 5 and 3. So they hadn't really played anybody yet. They were going to get to this stretch where they're going to play a couple ranked teams. They were the defending national champs. And then I. We were talking about this, Ari, that, like, you'll tweet something and it's like, don't tweet it, write it. And then you did write a column about this for the Athletic at the time, I think. But you were in a, in a, in an era of possibly perceived parody. You were asking the question, are we overthinking this? Is it just the defending champs getting rolling and that's the answer? And then it turned out not to be the answer because Georgia did beat some ranked teams to end the regular season, lost to Alabama in the SEC title game as the number one team in the country and didn't make the playoff. Death Star. That's a phrase that you like to use sometimes. Are you anywhere close to asking the Death Star question about Ohio State?

[D]

Yes.

[C]

I thought you were going to read off a quote of something that was terribly wrong. And then I would just be like, yeah, I was wrong.

[B]

Like, yeah, no, no, no, I don't want to play that game with myself either. No.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And like, yeah, because I'm wrong more than anybody. Yes. I've been asking that question to myself for a month now, and now it looks like they're the last one standing that you could maybe ask that question about. And you guys would be the experts in this. I'm not as close to it as you guys are anymore, but I'm surprised. I wrote columns at the end of last year proclaiming that I felt last year's Ohio State team would be the last of a breed in the super era or super team era. And this team looks like a super team again. And like, I understand Arvel Reese is really good and Jeremiah Smith is good and car. And like a lot of the players that are very good on their team are high school grown. I'm familiar with how Ohio State made their roster, but are you guys surprised that they are in super team mode this far into the NIL era? And I think that the rest of the country should probably be catching up to this if they haven't caught up to it already.

[D]

No, I don't, I don't think I'm surprised. Like under. Just understanding what they had been stacking in their recruiting classes, it. And they actually, the funny thing about it is like the class that would be seniors right now like blew up, right? Like, there's. There's seven guys from that 2022 class that would be their fourth year guys right now. But it just so happens that the 2023 and 2024 class of A bunch of juniors and sophomores were really good. So. But like, I, I had a feeling they could be. I guess that was like my thing after they Beat Texas is like. And it's no, no one's fault really the national media, but like there was just a fundamental misunderstanding, I think of like what was waiting in the wings at Ohio State. But I think Ohio State fans knew what was waiting.

[B]

Yeah, I misunderstood it a little bit. I think I misunderstood it a little bit. I had Ohio State going 10 and two, losing to Texas and losing one of these Big Ten games along the way. And the thing that I do think, Ari, it's interesting to think about because a lot of this stuff, like, right, Jeremiah Smith, number one recruit in the country comes from Miami. And Ryan Day, so Happy collapses at the podium. And Sonny Styles is an Ohio State legacy born and bred. My gosh, what a great player is. Norvell Reese is reigniting the Glenville pipeline. And we've seen great from Cleveland come and make an impact at Ohio State all the time. And a bunch of, of home state offensive linemen and like that. That sometimes is what Ohio State does when their teams are really good. Right. And all those things. But there is a super team aspect of this in that the greatest college football coach of all time retired and it gave Ohio State its starting quarterback and the best defensive player in the country. And if Nick Saban was still coaching, Ohio State would be very different. So there's a lot of, yes, this is Ohio State, but there also was a little magic in the air here that helped elevate this team potentially from great to super team.

[C]

Yeah, it's interesting because my follow up question to you because I actually don't feel like I know the answer, have a great grasp of it truthfully is what has Ohio State done in the last two years that the other superpowers that were doing better than them for the most part for the past 10 years have failed to do? Because you know, Alabama is very good this year and I'm assuming they're on all of our lists. But like Alabama isn't the Alabama from 2020 anymore. That would be something, Doug, if they weren't. Georgia certainly isn't what they used to be. What is the secret sauce for Ohio State where you could take. And like I know that it's probably just high school recruiting and retention, but that you could take as many losses from a team that won a national title last year and then arguably. And like, I don't know, is my crazy. Are they, I don't want to say the word. This used to drive us crazy when I was on the beat. But like, are they. They're playing better than last year. Right now, like, what happened?

[D]

I don't know that they're. I don't think you can definitively say, like, they're better yet.

[C]

I don't know that they're better, but at this point last year, they're better than at this point last year.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I. So one of the. I think the thing that happened is they have been less affected by the changes, that they're closer to who they've always been. And the rest of the sport, primarily in the sec, has come back to them a little bit because Ohio State has been very good at retention. They really have not lost anybody in the portal that they wanted to keep. Right. You watch Damon Wilson running around from Missouri right now, right? It's like, oh, man, that guy would still be helping George if he was there, right? So they. And then they've been able to supplement strategically, the portal's been an overwhelming net positive for them. Strategic additions to fill holes, which maybe back in the day when you were recruiting well, but you didn't have as much of the geographic. Like all the local kids within 300 miles that sec teams do. You might have been more likely to have a hole here or there. And they're able to fill those holes. They haven't been hurt by really, the portal at all. And then they've. Because they have a gigantic alumni base and they are in a pretty major city for a college football team, they've been able to harness NIL pretty well in a way that again, maybe some of the smaller southern cities, it's a little bit different with nil. So I just. But I. I don't know that Ohio State is that much better than it's been for the past 12, 10 years. But I think they no longer are looking up at the gigantic glut of talent that would be accumulated at the best SEC schools. And that goes back. That goes back to Jim Trestle losing to Florida in 2006 and being like, oh, my God, how's Florida have all these guys?

[C]

And it goes back to, like our series that we [e-mail] together, the indestructible thing. Even through the changes in evolution of the sport, the program has remained indestructible and steady. And other programs that were way up there in the atmosphere, like, there's no 2019 LSU team that's just like, right around the corner. There's no 2020 Bama. You know, some of those. And those teams don't exist anymore. So in the aggregate, when you look at everything, like, there's no like, of These other teams on this list that I have could win the national title, I don't think that any of them, I think half of them wouldn't even be in the same game as Ohio State at the moment. And I don't think any of them could beat them.

[D]

So.

[C]

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I'm happy you said that. That makes a lot of sense and I accept that. Like, that's good.

[D]

I think you could. Maybe I'll do this. Like, because we've had the conversations before about what Doug just said. Like, Ohio State doesn't really ever lose anybody of importance. But, like, is there. Could you find, like, if you go through all the teams we're going to talk about that could potentially win a national title, can you find a star on their team somewhere else in college football who came from one of their programs? Like, you mentioned Damon Wilson, but I don't think Wild Missouri on this list. But like Justice Haynes at Michigan, right? Like, and Michigan or Alabama's probably fine at running back, right? But now, like Justice Haynes is Michigan's best offensive player because they got him from, from Alabama. And it's just like there's no, there's no example of that coming from Ohio State going to. Like, some rosters are getting thinned out even the slightest bit. But Ohio States does not unless those guys are going to the NFL draft.

[B]

So, like, the examples, Jameson Williams and what he did for Alabama as a receiver. But that was before. That was like pre this era, right? That was still the old. That was still the old transfer.

[C]

Otherwise, no A M lost. Like, did you see that stat where like four former A M quarterbacks, I think it's even five now, are starting quarterbacks at other programs now. I don't know if that would. If any of them would raise. Like, but like Haynes King is a pretty important loss off of one of them.

[D]

But the thing that isn't Wegman playing well for Houston.

[C]

Wegman's doing pretty well. Yeah. The thing that made me kind of like internally laugh when you were telling me you're. Or telling me what I was asking Doug was that like the portal didn't exist. But like, what if, like 2013 Ohio State, the first team that we covered together, was able just to go get Caleb Downs and put him in and say that's Brown. Like, they would have won the national title maybe. Like, it's like that simple. And now. And they're still recruiting at that level, probably even a level higher, and now can supplement holes because they used to have Holes every year. Their offensive line one year, they're, you know, linebackers one year. And then, you know, the one that stands out to me the most is defensive back and a team that lost the Michigan State in the Big Ten championship game, they had a pretty big hole that was taken advantage of and the most crucial of moments, and they never had the ability to go supplement and that's the right word for it. And they're doing a really good job of that.

[B]

And I do think, I mean, as we've talked about a lot with this, with Ohio State over the years, Ohio State more often than not is kind of like the northern rep in this thing. And then we're talking about, okay, there's these individual peaks when, when a great team really gathers everything together and that team is better than Ohio state. So in 16, Clemson is better than Ohio State. And in 19, Clemson's better than Ohio State. And then. And LSU is also better than Ohio State. 19. And then in 20, Alabama is better. And then in 22, Georgia's better. Right. And it's all these, it's. But it's always Ohio State. And so if you take out. It's harder for those best SEC teams and throw Clemson in there. Their peaks aren't quite as high. Bill. Their peaks aren't quite as high. And now you can see, right, it's like the water, like the. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to make the right analogy, but it's like if the peak's not quite as high, like Mount Buckeye is always there, but these individual peaks would jut up. And if it's not jutting up as much anymore, now it's just kind of like Mount Buckeye is sitting there. It's in a pretty good spot. Yeah.

[D]

So you, you've seen the posters are like, like the mountains of the world elevations and they're all like side by side. And yeah, the highest state one has just stayed where it's always been.

[C]

And this would make sense if mountains changed elevation over here. But the one thing push back a little bit on is like, wouldn't last year's Ohio State team still have been the highest mountain against some of those other high mountains that you pointed out from 2016-20? I think last year's Ohio State team could have beaten a lot of the national championships from the heyday of the four team E era.

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Peanut butter and jelly.

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Macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and.

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The season has officially kicked off.

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The Modelo recruiter is back in action.

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Looking to reward full time fans who.

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Give their all for their team and their school week in and week out.

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If you're listening to this, you've been recruited.

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Sponsor of the College Football Playoff. Modelo. I mean, I don't know. Not all of them.

[B]

They're, they're, they're great. They also lost twice and were down to a do or die play in the fourth quarter against Texas. So like what would they have done against Joe Burrow? LSU? What would they have done against DeSean Watson? Clemson? What would they have done against 2020 Mac Jones? Devonte Smith? Yeah, Alabama. Like I like. They were great.

[D]

They were great. Definitely better.

[B]

2019 Ohio State. Yeah. Yeah, right.

[C]

Well, whenever I think about the, the final team, the final or like going back and doing this like hypothetical game which if I could have any superpower in the entire world, it would be to create a AI version of a Reality and then answer those questions where I could, like, yeah, it would be.

[D]

To eat what and not gain weight.

[C]

That's right. That would be number one. Number two would be, I've still eaten what I want, I just gain weight. Like, that's just the trade off. But like, if you put Justin Fields on the Vikings the last five years, would he be a good quarterback in the NFL? I would love to know the answer to that. But yeah. I always think of the final product, though, Doug. Like, I, I think of the team that showed up on the final day of the season and played Notre Dame versus the team that, on the final day of the season in 19, that won the national title and the Alabama team that ran Ohio State out of the, out of the building in New Orleans. Like, those are the. Not, like what happened during the season, but the final product. Everybody playing well, I think they, I think they would give them a game. And I think that I still think to this day that 19 Ohio State would have given 19 LSU a game if they would have made it that far.

[D]

Yeah. So.

[C]

But yeah, Ohio State's peaks are very high still. Like their peak hasn't moved down at all and other people's have around them. And I think that's a pretty astute point. So.

[B]

So the other thing I want to ask you about, Ari, about Ohio State is if, if you have been pondering the. What if the answer to this season is just, Ohio State's a defending champ, they're still really good, and it's Ohio State against the field. Do you think that's a common view nationally? Because, well, I'm going to end my question there. Do you think that is. Do you think other people see Ohio State that way?

[C]

I do. I think, yeah. I. I mean, I don't know. Like, there's a lot of people in the SEC world that have microphones in front of them that say things. I don't know how you could be an unbiased observer of the sport, watch Ohio State play, watch all the other games. Because I watch every game now, you know, and I know you guys watch a lot of football, too, but I watch, you know, Thursday night, Friday night, like, I'm locked in. Ohio State is a level above when Ohio State plays. It looks like they're not even breaking a sweat to me. It's like they're just swatting the teams that they're playing away. And, you know, it doesn't even look like they're going full gear because they don't have to. And like, no. Ever. I Feel like every other team that plays games has to strain every last muscle in their body in order to get to the W in half of their games. And outside of the Texas game, I guess Ohio State really broken a sweat this year.

[B]

They've never been in danger. I mean, they've had some like first quarters where it's 73 at the end of the first quarter, but never in a way that was like, oh, right, Bill.

[D]

No, they've never, they haven't trailed in the second half. The only times they've trailed have been by a fuel goal early to Ohio and Washington.

[B]

I will just say Ari and, and I can't pretend that I listen to or watch everybody, but to me, it felt like when Georgia was rolling there was more of a Georgia versus the field conversation than there is with Ohio State right now in a fairly similar circumstance. And I actually think 23 Georgia, now 23 Georgia is going for a three. Pete, Ohio State's only going for a repeat, but 23 Georgia with the new quarterback.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because the first two Georgia titles are Stetson Bennett. It's like Carson Beck. The schedule early is like not that tough. Like, what do you think? I think is actually a decent comparison for Ohio State. And I just feel like my perception has been there was more discussion then about the inevitability of Georgia than there is now about Ohio State. It feels like to me there, there's some part of the discussion right now that is, man, it's a wide open and crazy season. Who knows what's going to happen? Not, yeah, there's Ohio State and then it's crazy behind them.

[C]

So I, I think I might have misunderstood what you were saying. I think that people would probably view Ohio State as the favorite, but I think the ground, well, of natural acceptance that Ohio State's just going to go win it is not like that Georgia team. I think you're correct. Okay, now.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

I think though, could that be a reflection of the differences in the sport now, though?

[C]

Yes, that's what I was going to say. I was going to say, like, I think that if you actually wanted to investigate why it isn't an anti Ohio State, anti North thought process, I think it's one, people have watched Indiana go out to Eugene and beat the crap out of Oregon. And I think people are less likely in today's game to assume outcomes of future games. And then two, I think that the SEC schedule insisting upon itself as a ringer that the Big Ten is not, I think has the southern portion of the country still doubting The North's strength so like in their schedule because Texas isn't what we thought they were going to be this year, doesn't have a lot of who have they beaten? Like, like sexy wins. So when you combine those two things, I think it's easy to cast doubt on Ohio State and dismiss them to a certain extent as an unknown entity. But the frustrating thing, I think for people who listen to the show, and probably you, Doug, is that Georgia never got viewed through the magnifying glass kind of at the same scrutiny or the same side eye that Ohio State does at times in the national narrative.

[B]

Yeah, Illinois is 5 and 2, Minnesota's 5 and 2, Washington's 5 and 2 and they're just not ranked in the 20s in the polls the way a bunch of two loss SEC teams are. So I've had that discussion plenty. We don't have to have it here.

[C]

And I want to go on record and say that it's right. And I co host a podcast with a person who is very SEC brained and I think he would admit that. So like, I do my best to do my part on the show to make sure that the teams. And like Andy is, is good. He, he like will acknowledge that Indiana's a wagon, you know, like he, yeah, he knows Ohio State is, you know, but he affectionately calls Ohio State like an SEC team in the north. You know, like that's the way the prism through which he, he views the sport. And I do my best on our national show to explain to the people what Ohio State is that are more reluctant to accept it because they didn't play Auburn and Mississippi and games like that. Because like I would also love to go back and take my AI machine and see Illinois go play the SEC schedule or last year's Indiana team go play last year's SEC schedule. Because I am under the impression that Indiana would have done quite quite well against some of those teams last year that we thought were good that aren't really all that good.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, before we go to Ari's first team here, we're going to remind you that you can go check out some cool [e-mail] r h O-B-A c-k.com if you put in the code BAD20B A D20, you'll get 20 off your first order. I was just stepping outside there today. Now Ari is in, Ari's in the southern part of the country. I'm not sure it's all the way there yet, but land is like here in Ohio quarter zip Weather, hoodie, Hoodie. Weather is here, brother. Right?

[D]

It is. Get yourself a hoodie. Get yourself accuse it. Make yourself some chili. It's that time of year.

[B]

Yeah. Now. So here's what I would do, though.

[D]

Doesn't sell chili, though, yet.

[B]

I would take off my roback while I eat the chili. Are you guys in that? Like, Ari, do you take things. Do you ever take clothes off to eat messy food?

[C]

I am weird in that I don't have a great body, but when I'm at home, I have a shirt on 1% of the time. And because it's 1% of the time I'm podcasting, like, I don't wear a shirt in my house, period. And people, like, make fun of me in my life. Like, if, like, my wife facetimes me and she's with people, like, I never have a shirt on because, like, why would you wear a shirt in your house? It's weird. But no, I don't take off my shirt. I wouldn't already have a shirt on if I'm eating to begin with. Roback is a sponsor of our show too, and I will, like, assist in that. It is one of the most comfortable hoodies I've ever worn, so I wouldn't want to mess that up. Yeah, but. But what's the point of wearing a shirt in your house? Explain it.

[B]

Yeah, I was like, it. Ari's like, doesn't everyone eat chili topless? What are we talking about, Doug? I don't even understand this question.

[C]

Doug, if you're at home and you're not working, what percentage of time, like, in your. Maybe it's different because you've got teenage girls running around and maybe I'll change when my daughter gets older, but, like, when my wife is home and it's just my three year old, four year old running around, like, I have. I never have a shirt on.

[B]

I have never had my shirt off in my house ever.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

He showers fully clothed.

[C]

Do you sleep with the shirt on?

[B]

Yes. Most times, yes.

[C]

That's crazy.

[B]

Bill, what's your shirt situation like in your home?

[D]

I'm. I usually have one on. Only sometimes I'll sleep with that one on, but that's about it. Yeah. Okay.

[C]

The first thing I do when we're done recording is hit X. And then the second thing is take the shirt off.

[D]

Tarps off. Yeah.

[B]

And then go make a pot of chili.

[D]

Yeah. Anyway. Anyway.

[B]

This is still all a rollback ad, technically. R-O-B-A-K.com hoodies, quarter zips, go check it out. Game day collection of your favorite team. B a D, 20 gets you 20 off your first order. Ari, give us a team.

[C]

Okay. Should I do layup or. Or obscure? I'll do. I'll just do layup. I think Indiana can win the national title this year.

[B]

Okay. Bill, do you agree?

[D]

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

It felt weird. You, you asked me after the. The weekend with Indiana beat Oregon, do you think Indiana can win a national title? And I said yes very quickly without thinking about it. Then as I heard it come out of my mouth, it felt weird or sounded weird, but. No, of course they can. Yeah, they're great on both sides of the wall.

[C]

I would love to hear someone's argument against it. How do you go on the road and beat a team that like Oregon by multiple scores and then the answer to that be no?

[D]

I think the only argument against it would be like, the depth piece. Like, do they have the depth of roster to withstand, like, potential injuries that might pop up? Like the way that Ohio State and Notre Dame did last year while getting to the national title.

[C]

Yeah. How many years of Indiana being this good do you think it's going to take before you don't, like, regurgitate every time you say things like that? Because I still find myself. I was on somebody else's podcast this morning and they asked me like, a question about Nebraska and we were talking about losing to Minnesota and I was like, it's not like they lost to Indiana.

[D]

What?

[C]

Like, it's like, like, you know, like, it's like it's been like, programmed in my brain when I think about the bottom of the Big Ten to think about Indiana? Because that's the way it always used to be. How many years of Kurt Signetti success is it going to take where we don't have to, like, pretend like, it's weird that they're on the list?

[B]

I think this is it. I. I assume, assuming they don't collapse, assuming they make the playoff, I think we're here and then I would actually be. So Mendoza has a year of eligibility, right? But. But he's also being Talked about as QB1. So Fernando Mendoza goes pro and they don't immediately have a quarterback answer. Like, I actually. Bill would be more surprised if we're going into next season uncertain about Indiana, because I'm just assuming now that if Kurt Signetti is the third highest paid coach in the sport, he says he's going to retire in Bloomington and he's shown he knows how to build a roster in the portal and get the best out of everybody. If it feels like Indiana going into 26 is unsteady or uncertain, that will surprise me.

[D]

Nothing, nothing gives you pause about the JMU guys that are still hanging around being gone after this year.

[B]

I, I think he can make that place like a number one portal destination that like he becomes that guy now. I mean, you make a very good point. Yeah, that, like that it is. And you know, Mikhail Kamara and Aiden Fisher and all those guys have really mattered and they've all been there for multiple years. So you make a good point. But like, I don't. It's going to take work, but it's work that of course is available to happen. Like, they don't have all the top 150 high school recruits on their roster just to fill in right now, but I don't have any doubt that they will be able to fill in with good players in the Portal and build a good team.

[C]

Well, here's. Go ahead, Bill.

[D]

I was gonna say, like, it's not like none of those guys that went with him from JMU to Indiana were like top rated guys in the Portal. Like, the fact that they're so good at Indiana is nothing more an endorsement of their ability to identify and develop players. And also if they develop people who were already in the Indiana program when they got there, they've successfully identified a bunch of transfers from other programs. So like they're whatever it is, their scouting department, their eye for talent, I would say is up there with the best in the country based off what they've been able to bring to that program, not not only to Indiana, but what they brought into JMU and then brought with them to Indiana.

[C]

Landis and I have bro catch ups every now and then. And we were talking about this on the phone yesterday and this is the one thing that gives me pause is not just about Indiana, but any program that's been highly transient. Is, is there a lesson to learn from Florida State and how much of talent evaluation in the Portal is being in the right place at the right time and how much of that is sustainable? And then when you lose the players that you brought through your portal, whether they're in your program for one year or two, is it. Can you be a. Even if you become the portal destination that Ole Miss has become, can you sustain a playoff level team year over year over year in the Big Ten doing it that way? Like at a certain point you need to revert back to signing top 15 classes in order to remain consistent and like, I don't know the answer to that yet. But I would be surprised whether that. And that's not an anti Kurt Signetti, you know, discussion. I think it's a, it's an anti over reliance on the portal thought, which is if you never get to a point where routinely signing top 20 top 15 classes because I don't think it's top five anymore. I think now you have to do top 20 and then supplement. If you can't do that then I think eventually you, you will, you will hit a point where you're no longer able to sustain success. So can he turn whatever happens this year into signing a top 20 class next year? I think is the answer. Not can he get lucky in the portal every year because Fernando Mendoza was a great pickup. But like how many years in a row can you do that? You know, like, it's just, it's hard.

[B]

But Fernando could have gone a lot of places, right? Yeah, he could have got a million places. He picked Indiana.

[C]

Yeah. But you have to get Fernando Mendoza to pick Indiana and then it has to hit. And yes, you know, like all the things that come with the evaluation. I'm not even talking about like being able to get guys to sign. It's. Most of these portal evaluations are done in a one month period or a one week period depending on how long they're in it for. Them coming, them producing immediately all the things. It almost feels like a roulette wheel to me. And it's not an Indiana discuss. Like we find out and maybe there's something deeper happening at Florida State. But like the second they lost all their great portal players the following year they went 2 and 10. Now not saying Indiana's gonna go 2 and 10, but winning 11 games in a row every year, you, you guys have a firsthand seed on how hard it is to do at Ohio State. I feel like doing it in Indiana provides other challenges that, that are presented that Ohio State doesn't have to face, which is backfilling with internal pieces that came in through high school and have been developing. They don't have that piece yet and without that piece it's going to be more difficult to sustain, I think.

[D]

Yeah, they have them just looking and again we're talking about this year but like they have a 32nd ranked class right now on the Rivals rankings.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Which is like really good for Indiana. But I think he said something. I was watching, I was watching Signetti's press conference this week for some reason, I don't know why, and he said something about, he was talking about The Portal. And he said, like, you don't get off of the Portal in two or three years. But the insinuation was like, they eventually want to get out of the business. Building their roster through the Portal.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

And he said, like, beating Oregon, like, has opened a lot. Like, doing what they did last year, coming back this year, being successful, beating Oregon. They can feel it opening doors of high schools. But, like, that'll be the test. I agree with Ari. Like, they. I don't think. I don't think you can Portal or. I don't think he can, like, hope to pour your way to the playoff every year. I do think you have to at some point have a baseline of high school recruiting and development to go back there. Every single.

[C]

Who are the Portal Kings? That before Signetti showed up that you would think just off the top of your head, like, all the. The best coaches at nailing the Portal. Like, Mike Norvell was the Portal King one year. Right. Tiffan Kiffin and I don't know who else.

[D]

Mel Tucker wasn't any.

[C]

How many Portal Kings have come to the playoff?

[B]

Well, it's. It's a valid point. I also am leaving room for, like, he's the exception of the rule and.

[D]

He might doing him any dealing here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, that's true.

[B]

Like, don't try to be Kurt Signetti.

[C]

And Florida State got screwed. So, like, we can't.

[B]

Yeah, but Kurt Signetti could be Kurt Signetti, you know, like that. Because. And he has the. You know, Dion did pretty good for a year, but, like, he. Because he has the. I think he had. And there's a lot of guys who came up through the ranks, but he has such legitimate roots in that that I think players would view like guys. And especially his is Portal up guys. Right.

[C]

He's.

[B]

Now Mendoza was. You know, Cal is not the same as jmu, but I. I think he can continue to clean up in group of 5 and FCs up transfers because I think he can sell a message that will resonate with those guys and then they have the resources to pay him. And then I just think he can win a lot of those battles and like, almost count on it. It in a way that maybe nobody else in the country can. Yeah. But also, I don't. But this discussion also is not like, is Indiana gonna be a playoff team every year? It's like, could Indiana in the next decade? So if they make the playoff this year, they're two for two the next 10 after that, could they make the playoff four or five out of those 10 years. And they could. They have no years in that stretch where they go 2 and 10. I think that's possible. But I don't think they're gonna be like what Penn State's been where Indiana's 10 and 2 every year and it's like yeah, I think they're gonna make it eight out of 10 years.

[C]

And there's a wide range between. It's a wide gap between those two things too. If you could be a program that pops up every two or three years by. Because like the other thing he could do too is get portal guys that don't leave after one year and develop them and keep them for multiple years so that they're kind of like remind you of like the portal version of what Michigan State used to be, which is you know, popping up every three years because people have been developing behind the scenes guys that were kind of underrated, you know. And you can do it through the portal that way as third verse didn't hit till the second year. Right?

[D]

I can't remember.

[B]

And you look at like what was what Wisconsin and Michigan State both were for long stretches in the previous era of college football they would have been playoff teams on the regular like for sure. Those, those, those Wisconsin teams were dominating the Big Ten West. The Dan. The Dantonio won double digit games like whatever it was six out of eight years. Like that Michigan State team would have been in the playoff all the time. So that's what you're asking. Can Indiana be that. Can Indiana be what Wisconsin and Michigan State I've been which is like be like the third or fourth best team in the Big Ten and not really have dips. Not huge fall off a cliff dips. It's like yeah, I, I think they can.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Indeed Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward.

[C]

Forward.

[A]

If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Give your job the best chance to be seen with INDEED Sponsored Jobs. They help you stand out and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Sponsored Jobs boosts your post for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster and it makes a big difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored Jobs because you reach a bigger Pool of quality candidates. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Now with Indeed Sponsored jobs and listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.comBWN just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.combn terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.

[E]

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[B]

All right, so we're all in. And by the way, the other thing, Ari, I want to ask you is like, did, because the thing when Bill, Bill and I, when you and when you and I talked about Indiana, Oregon, we had some questions about are they going to be able to compete with Oregon up front. Right? And then they did. That was the part of this, Ari, for, for Oregon, Indiana was the idea that like it. They didn't look short, 22 against 22, man on man. They looked like they absolutely could hang with Oregon every day of the week.

[C]

Absolutely. And that's everyone. Everybody who watched Notre Dame and Ohio State game last year, like, has the same viewpoint of like, well, we know who Pons is, we know who Mendoza is, we know who Sarata is. Like, are there guys in the trenches going to be able to withstand, you know, big bully ball against programs that we Perceive to have top five talent nationally. I think they unequivocally answered that question. They didn't. That wasn't a fluke. If they played again tomorrow, I think they could beat them again. Like, yeah, And I think that they're. It's funny because, you know, if you want to do like, a northern Big Ten viewpoint of it, I almost feel like Oregon has, like, died in the total. In the spotlight of like, the national conversation because they're like, oh, they can't even beat Indiana. And it's like Indiana didn't absorb the credit for beating Oregon that they should have. And then Oregon lost its luster because it lost. And then you're like, oh, for two in that regard. Whereas in the south, the loser of that game is still a good team and the winner of that game is proven, you know, like. And that didn't happen. So I, I hope for your sake, Doug, I want you to be around.

[B]

For a long time.

[C]

I, I hope that, you know, the Big Ten gets its final say again. But, like, it's just the narrative thing is so interesting and, like, now that I'm out of Ohio and, like, looking at it, like, I'm more exposed to it than I've ever been before. College football is, like, undergone an immense amount of change in a short amount of time. And you're trying to rewire people's brains when they've been watching the sport and the way it plays out for 40 years and, and, you know, even for people like me and in my age, age grant, like, 20 years, it's like the SEC was winning all the time. So, like, Indiana has to break that down. The Big Ten has to break that down. And, you know, as much as the SEC and the, you know, the glory of the Southern pride and the Southern dominance, that took a lot of time too, you know, you're just gonna have to chip away at it. So the Indiana, Oregon thing I find amusing, but I also think both of those teams can win the national title. Not to give anything away here year, so.

[B]

Okay, well, you can give it away because I'll put. I'll put Oregon on the table. And I do think Oregon can win the national title. Bill, do you agree?

[D]

Yeah, Oregon's absolutely on my list. Yes.

[B]

So like we had talked in the preseason at Big Ten media days, like, like the idea of sort of angry Oregon that they were the only undefeated regular season team last year, and then they lost to a team that they had beaten during the regular season and lost an embarrassing fashion, and they did a pretty Good job. It was like they had, like, kind of a third young guys moving up from their team, a third portal guys, a third returning guys, and that it was a pretty good mix. And I think a lot of people felt really good about that. And then Kurt Signetti just went in their house and whooped their butt. But, Ari, kind of, as you were saying, it's like, well, I think Kurt Signetti might go into a lot of people's houses and whoop their butt. And now, Bill, it feels like they're mad again. And so I still think they're good. I think that Indiana game is much more about Indiana taking care of business than like, oh, my gosh, Oregon has all these flaws, and now they're mad. And I think they just might go beat up on a bunch of people by 50 until they get to the playoff.

[D]

Yeah, I'm not. I. I still think the Oregon Washington game at the end of the year is going to be one to watch. Like, and it's in Seattle. I think Washington can win that game. But, yeah, I fully expect Oregon to kind of run over everybody else that plays until they know that I think they play usc, so we'll see. It's not going to be easy, but I do. I do agree that they're angry. I think that will help them. Clearly, they were taking out some frustration on Rutgers this past weekend, but they're good. They're just a good team that played another good team and lost. Right. Like last year, they played Ohio State at home and they won by a point. I don't know that anybody came away from that game thinking both those teams stink. And then we saw them again play, play, play again in the Rose Bowl. This is a very similar situation with Indiana. It was a little bit lower scoring, and Oregon happened to lose. But I don't. I don't know what you would look at Oregon and say. Like, they're deficient in. In. In a way that makes you think that they can't win a national title. They're good on both lines of scrimmage. They have an exciting young quarterback. They're like, receivers are young and inexperienced, but that won't be so much of an issue by the time they get to the postseason. So they have everything they need. Like, I'm. I don't. I don't think Oregon's going anywhere. Even though they lost that game, they.

[C]

Were underappreciated in the. In the preseason a little bit. Like, they were in the 8 to 12 range in polls. And when you look at their two deep. I feel like every level on both sides of the ball has a playmaker or a certified dude. I was actually surprised that Indiana beat Oregon, not because I doubted that Indiana was very good, but I was pretty high on the balance of depth of. Of playmaking, NFL talent that's across the board at every position group on their team. So I think that's a testament to what Indiana accomplished, certainly. But I think that when you look at, like, the prototypical type of roster that you want to see from teams in this era competing and making runs in the championship, I think Oregon illustrates and checks all those boxes.

[D]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

They. They have Wisconsin this week, then they're off, and then they finish with four Big Ten teams who currently only have two losses. And, Bill, you and I were talking about this the other day, like, this middle of the Big Ten. If somebody can jump up, it might take beating Oregon to jump up. But they. They are at Iowa, home, Minnesota, home, usc, at Washington. So, again, like, I think the middle of the Big Ten doesn't get respected the same way the middle of the SEC does. But those are some interesting games with. If USC plays its best game, if Minnesota plays out of its mind, if Washington plays its best game, who knows? But I think we all agree that Oregon's right there absolutely on this list. Bill, who's your next team?

[D]

I'll. I'll put up Alabama and. But I'll. I'll probably. I would see the floor to Ari, probably, for. It's the guy who probably knows more about Bama than we do. I will just say, like, in. In what I've watched of Alabama, I. I do feel like they have most of what they need. They remind me a little bit of Ohio State and, like, they're not great at running the ball, but they can, I think, throw the ball with anybody. And I don't think the defense is spectacular, but I think it could be good enough. That's, like, sort of my overall viewpoint on them, but Ari knows them better than I do, and I'm sure.

[C]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm still a Northern boy. Guys, don't. Don't put me.

[D]

But you want. You. You just. What, you watch them?

[C]

I watched everything. Yeah, they looked completely out of sync and out of sorts in their opener. And I don't know if that was just a case of, you know, Florida State.

[B]

Terrible coaching.

[C]

Yeah, it could have been terrible coaching. I mean, I think that Kalyn DeBoer is susceptible to losing games that you wouldn't think that he could. And I think a lot of people have dismissed that as a possibility for the remainder of Alabama's schedule, but it would not shock me if it happened again again. Like, I think you need to get through an entire season of that not happening before you can say that won't happen again. So that's the thing that scares me more than anything. But at the same time, you know, if you go back and look at the last four games that they've won, and I know that there's some thought process that maybe they're fake good wins or whatever that the SEC insist upon itself, and I would be willing to listen to that, but they have beaten four ranked teams in a row and they've looked pretty in control during those four, four wins. And Ty Simpson, I thought was a question mark coming into the year. I think he's playing above the grade of which I would have thought he would. And they have a lot of talent. So, like, if you, if Doug, you alluded to the fact that they might not be on your list. If they're not, I would love to hear, like your thought process on why they're not.

[B]

I don't think they can win three or four straight games against high level competition. I rewatched the Missouri game this morning in preparation for this. There were times when they could not block Missouri. Bo Pelo threw two picks in that game where he just threw it to Alabama late in the game. One was the. The game ending play that they were trying to drive for a tying field goal. One was they were when they were down 27, 20 and he just like had a miscommunication on the route and threw it straight to an Alabama safety. It's not Alabama guys making great plays. And then like, but like, who is Missouri? Because I could run through Missouri's Jesse Palmer and he's not allowed to lie because he's the host of the Bachelor. And that's like being a judge. Yeah. He cannot lie. He says during the broadcast, Missouri is kind of lucky that they beat Kansas and South Carolina because they had coverage busts in those games. And Lenora Sellers and Jalen Daniels missed throws that would have been touchdowns. And that's the team that took a Bama to the wall in that game. And I didn't see anything that Bama did. There was like a lot of stupid stuff there. Missouri tried a fake punt that didn't work and gave Bama short field right. I just like Ty Simpson. There was the first play of the third quarter when it's like, it's go time for Bama, he gets sacked and he fumbles on the first play of the third quarter. I thought Bama made mistakes all over the field in the Missouri game and was lucky to escape. And then the other thing, and I know this is not the end all be all, but I went through the success rates, offense and defense for all the teams that are were under 100 to 1 to win the national title. There's 16. So I went through all those teams. There are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 of them that are ranked in the top 25 in success rate on both offense and defense. Bama in success rate. Offensively they're 31st, defensively they're 73rd. I do not think they are a down to down, do your job kind of team. And I think frankly they've been on the ropes in a couple SEC games that they managed to escape because nobody was good enough to jump up and get them. I think they playing at Missouri and playing at Washington is very similar. And Ohio State went to Washington and just controlled the whole game. Bama went to Missouri and escaped by the skin of its teeth. I don't see any world where Bama can win three straight games against the best teams in the country.

[C]

Ari, I think that there's a fair criticism. The one thing that I would ask you is if you like went through every team with a fine tooth comb like that if you would be able to find things, things like that. Like I, I'm with you. It also was the third game of a three game stretch against top 15 opponents and the game was like on the road and it kicked off I believe at 11am like it was definitely like a trap spot game and I don't know how much you buy into that but like it wasn't the most advantageous circumstance to play a road game. And the thing that I will push back on a little bit here is that they beat Georgia, Vanderbilt, Missouri and Tennessee. And knowing with a full heart that I agree with you, that the SEC does insist upon itself that is a pretty difficult four game stretch in my opinion. And I think winning all of them is probably the closest thing to illustrating that you can win four in a row that anybody else has done in the sport. But I. And like the, the foot in the. Or the, the foot down that they cannot do it right now is what I would push back on on. They wouldn't be the team I would pick to do it. But that they cannot do it with the players that they have, I think is. Is one step further that I'd be Willing to take.

[B]

Who's the best guy with the ball in his hands on that offense? Ryan Williams, who's, like, 73rd in the nation in targets. I know he's been a little hurt. Yeah. I don't know, Bill, you're in, though.

[D]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, like, you can. You have stats to back up your thing and, like, you can, like, EPA per play margin. They're seventh in the country. There's only, like, a handful of teams that are top 10 in both offense, defense, EPA playing Alabama is one of them. So, like, I. I think you can drive yourself crazy if you're coming in from that angle. I just kind of think you have to watch them, and I know you have. So, like, if you watch them, it's like, you know what? I don't see it. That's fair. I don't think they're a juggernaut, but I don't know that there are many juggernauts out there this year. And I think, like, Alabama as a team, especially, like, with its offensive fire, potential offensive firepower that, like, could get hot, be pretty tough off the beat.

[C]

And I don't know if it's just because I'm stupid. This might be the case. And I've never been good at math, but, like, I also think that there are so many stats at our disposal that, like, you can pick and choose which stats to use.

[D]

Sure.

[A]

It's like.

[C]

And I. I don't want to give anything away. This team. I assume, Landis, that Missouri is not on your list.

[D]

Correct.

[C]

Okay, so Missouri was my team that was on the outs. Like, that. I was like, with the asterisks. Right. I still can't say that word. And the reason why is because Mizzou is top 10 in both total offense and total defense and has gotten to this point and pushed Bama to the end. Do I actually think they could win four games in a row? Probably not, which is why they're on the outs. But you're talking about Missouri as if it's, like, a bad team, and I think it's a pretty good team. So, you know, and I think Washington's a good team, too. So if those are the comps, I. I think that Washington has been under ranked all year. Although I would have liked to see them put up a better fight against Michigan last weekend. I don't know if, like, going on the road and winning a close game at Mizzou is like a black mark the way that you do.

[B]

I thought they had numerous moments in that Game where the game was there for the taking. And I understand it's a road environment, but like, you got to go in on the road sometimes and that Missouri gave it to him. And I just thought there were key moments where they needed to do something and like, they didn't do it, you know, and it came down like they. And then they also, they can. It's one of those things. Is it good or bad? They had a drive at the end. They had a touchdown drive. I think their go ahead touchdown drive. They converted two fourth downs on that, including on the touchdown, where Missouri blows the coverage on the touchdown. The guy's standing in the end zone by himself on the fourth down and it's like, okay, I guess congratulations, Alabama, but also Missouri maybe cover a guy who's standing in the end zone by himself on a do or die fourth down play. I just felt like that game was ragged and that there were like, mistakes kind of handed to each other on both sides of the ball. And I did not come away from that game thinking either team was like, oh, man, I wouldn't want to play them. I was like, you'd play them, I'd line up against those guys. And I figured they'd make some mistakes. And I just, I did not see. Jim Miller's pretty good. Okay. Jim Miller's pretty good. Good.

[C]

He's good.

[B]

Yeah. I, I just, I did not see. I didn't find Bama to be dangerous. They didn't scare me. I'm not saying they're terrible. I, I previous. I picked him to lose four straight weeks. So I probably respect them less than anybody in the country, but I do. What I am on is I do not think they can run the gauntlet in the playoff. I would be flabbergasted.

[C]

I will say is, is that like now I might text Andy and just be like, doug doesn't think that Alabama coin, then I title. Can he come on and explain it? Just because that would be great for our show. But like, the, the, the other part of this too is winning three games in a row. You're gonna have to play really good teams. But in the 12 team era, you might have to play two flawed teams before you play in Ohio State. Like, I'm looking at college football playoff brackets right now, and it's like the bottom half of some of the projections I see is usf, Vanderbilt, byu, Georgia Tech, Miami, and Ole Miss. It's like they can't beat those teams.

[B]

All southern teams. No, no Big ten, no northern teams. In the bottom half. There we're all just. No, it's actually Andy's. Yeah.

[C]

But, like, I'm just saying, like, all the teams that even if you were to replace, you know, Vandy. Is BYU in the South. Do we. Were they.

[B]

No. Byu. It snows there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Andy's brainwashed you.

[C]

No, I'm on your side. I. I'm not a geography guy. But, like, even the teams that you would, like, I don't know, like Michigan, for instance, would probably be in the 12 to 15 range right now. It's like, do I think Alabama could beat Michigan, like, or a team. If you wanted to swap the southern for their northern counterpart, I still think they could beat those teams, too, so it would not be my pick. So, like, I see where you're coming from, and I actually believe that there's still an outside chance that they'll let us down because we've seen it for two years in a row now. And I don't think that you just, like, recover like, I mean, Marcus Freeman did it last year, but do you recover from something that is, like, sleepwalking or prone to losing to teams? Because, like, now with the context, too, the one point that I. I'm surprised you didn't make is. I don't care how out of sync you were. Like, Florida State stinks like that. That loss is getting worse and worse every week.

[B]

Week.

[C]

But it's. It is an interesting thought process, and I don't think you're nuts, but I think, like, drawing a line in the sand and saying they cannot do it is probably not something I would want to agree with right now.

[B]

All right, we'll. We'll speed it up. Ari, next team for you.

[C]

Okay. My next team I have is Miami.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I was. Of all the results this past year that I've been shocked by, Miami losing to Louisville is probably in the top three, maybe number one. Not. Not more shocking than Florida State beating the crap out of Bama. But I thought Miami was different this year, and I don't know if it's, you know, getting caught up in results of games, but I went. I was at the Miami Florida State game, and, you know, I was able to stand on the field for a large portion of the end of that game. Their front seven on defense is really special, and they have one of the best offensive lines in the country. I have been on Team Doug with this, like, the Carson Beck is not great train. I think you're probably a little bit more colorful in your description of that than I am, but I thought that they were Going to win a lot of games by bullying people physically. And that Malachi, Tony, that freshman receiver, all those different pieces that they have, you know, in their backfield, were just all going to be helped out a lot by dominating people in the trenches and like seeing them get pushed around by Louisville. I did not see that coming. And I don't know if that was a one off, if that was a weird Friday night game, if it was a spot. You know, we talk about picking spots and picking teams. You know. How much does spot matter in college football? I think it does, you know, 20 of the, you know, of the time. I still like, if not fully given up on Miami, although I was very disappointed to see what happened to that mock on Friday night. That wasn't what I anticipated.

[B]

Do you have them, Bill?

[D]

I do. Two things give me pause. Carson Beck and like, is Mario Crystal Ball really going to coach well enough to get through four games winning a national title?

[C]

I think I am assuming you watched the Louisville game, right?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, no, I did. Yeah.

[C]

You think that Mario did anything wrong in that game?

[D]

No, no, no, no. That just makes me think it's coming still.

[B]

Right? That was the quarterback loss, right?

[D]

4.

[B]

Yeah, that was the quarterback loss. The coach loss is coming down the pike.

[D]

Yeah, there were some weird clock, like a moment of weird clock management in that game, I guess. But no, that wasn't like a Mario game. I, like you was surprised that Louisville held up as well as it did on the line of scrimmage. But I still like.

[C]

And Louisville's good.

[D]

They're pretty good.

[B]

Yeah, but they got promed, man. Sometimes you get bronze, sometimes you get bro.

[D]

Yeah, I think, I think there's a way if they can, if they can get it so where like they don't have to like put it on Carson Beck to win and he's more of just like a point guard along for the ride kind of quarterback and that the guy that has to go win you a game. I think they can do it, but I don't, I don't know that they're 100 capable of being that. But I did have them on my list because like I, you know, the, the talent on the offensive and defensive lines is pretty tough to ignore and like the skill I still think is pretty good.

[C]

Yeah, I actually think that Mario's done a really good job there. Like, I know everybody likes to pile on the guy. Miami is a completely different place now than it was when he took over. I think he's done a great job.

[B]

I think it's very similar James Franklin thing. It's like you build a program, you establish something, you create your own standard and then. But I do think like people question in game, right? And he's not going to escape that for a while. And people question James Franklin in game and so we were talking about this on one of other shows, Ari, that, you know, a year ago they were 10 and 16 and 1 on the ACC. They go north to Syracuse in the last game of the regular season. If they win there in the ACC title game and probably in the playoff and they lose to Syracuse, they're at pit on the last weekend of the regular season this year and like to be. I think they could be in the exact same spot and are they going to choke? Yeah, last year and they choked.

[C]

I don't think they choked last year. Their defense was awful. I think it's a miracle they made it to 10 wins last year with that defense. Like.

[B]

Yeah, I mean they're substantial. They're substantially better this year, you think?

[C]

I think they're substantially better defensively, obviously not offensively. Offensively, they had one of the best offenses of the last 10 years last year and that's what got them through it. But I feel like I would much rather be a sure thing on defense and pretty good or to above average on offense than amazing on offense and awful on defense. Like I would take this year's team over last year's team. I think if you would combine the two, they would win the national title, but you can't do that.

[B]

Okay, so I also have them. I also have them as a title contender.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward. If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job. Posts seen on other job sites give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed's sponsored jobs. They help you stand out and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Sponsored Jobs Boost your post for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster and it makes a big difference. According to INDEED data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs because you reach a bigger pool of quality candidates. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time More results now with with Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.comBWN just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.combn terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the Right Way with Indeed.

[E]

Imagine if today was the day your idea changed someone's life. Imagine if you could help someone pay for college, help your community build a new playground, or help a child make it to that dream competition with GoFundMe. It's all possible. GoFundMe is the world's number one fundraising platform, trusted by over 190 million people every week. Ordinary people meet their goals and do extraordinary things. Your ideas matter. GoFundMe isn't just for emergencies. Want to raise money for your kid's soccer team or raise funds for a small business, a creative project or event? GoFundMe helps you turn ideas into reality and help adds up. Fundraisers you start for someone else raise up to five times more. So think right now. Who could use your help? Change rarely comes from waiting. It comes from someone deciding, today I'll start. Don't wait for someone else to bring change today. Start your fundraiser in just [e-mail] that's gofundme.com to start your fundraiser. Gofundme.com this is a commercial message brought to you by GoFundMe.

[B]

I'll now put up Notre Dame, and Notre Dame was my preseason national title pick and I think they are going to get in. I think they'll win out and do what they have to do to get in. And you know, C.J. carr had that ridiculous interception against USC, but I think you can see him coming along as a young quarterback. It's been bumpier than, for instance, for Julian saying, but I think by the playoff he will be ready to be a playmaking quarterback who can win new games and I think they have a depth of talent on both sides of the ball. Jeremiah Love is as good as with the ball in his hands as anybody in the country. I think their receivers are probably better than you normally expect from Notre Dame, and I think they're figuring out a little bit the Chris Ash defensive plan and improving and I don't know if they'll be great, but I just think they have talent there and you know, they were right there with two really good teams. It doesn't excuse those losses But I think Notre Dame at its best, I could see them making that playoff run. So are they on your list, Ari?

[C]

Yes, they are on my list. Although I will give you a bonus. I'll bring some of the things that I get flack on for my channel to yours to generate some buzz. I don't think that they are a lock to get in the playoff, dude. Like, I think that, like, if they go 10 and 2, they probably will get in, but, like, I think they need some help. I think there's this notion in South Bend and the surrounding areas that Notre Dame controls its own destiny. And I don't think it does, especially with the way that the season is shaping up. Like, if you go look at the ACC standings, like Miami controls its own destiny for the playoff, but not its own conference title, you're going to have a lot of teams that are really good, like Oregon, for instance, maybe in the Big Ten, that are going to be gobbling up spots on the outside. And I think that, like, they might start getting compared to three loss SEC teams. And you might think Notre Dame's better, but they will not have beaten nobody.

[D]

They really need George. They really need Georgia to be Georgia Tech into Miami to be Georgia Tech in the ACC title game.

[C]

Yeah, like, I think they need help.

[B]

Their losses are so good, they might wind up. It could be that there are two losses for the SEC champ and the ACC champ. And then so now we're back into, like, good loss, bad loss, good win, bad win. But USC has a chance to be pretty good. Boise State has a chance to win the Mountain West. Like, I. I think the pit's pretty good, right? Like, they're gonna play pits five and two right now and just look pretty good. I think their wins will stack up. And I do think, like, the better that Texas A M and Miami look and the better they finish. If they're.

[D]

If you're 10, what if they're not the chance? Whether they're not the champs, then that's two spots you can't get.

[C]

Yeah, like the Texas. Texas A M and Miami head to head.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I bet you from a Vegas standpoint, Texas A M and Miami are probably more likely to not win their conference than to win it in the current moment. Now Texas A M controls its own destiny in the SEC and has a pretty advantageous path. So I think they'll get to Atlanta.

[B]

I bet you that's not true. Who you think is gonna win the acc?

[C]

I don't think that Miami is going to make it to the acc. Title game. I, I think they're kind of blocked out. If you go look at the schedules, all the best teams in the ACC don't even play each other. Now if you think Georgia Tech is just going to lose a random game or Virginia is or whatever they lost. If you go look at the standings, I think they're like fourth or fifth right now in the standings and the top three teams in the standings don't even play each other. So you. They need, they need teams to lose random games which is college football and might happen. But A M, let's just say A M and Miami don't play or don't win their conferences and those two are at largest at the end they automatically block Notre Dame out and then you have other teams that are in the mix and like your disaster scenario. Doug, I'll paint a nice picture for you. You know, Alabama is who you say they are and they lose twice more this year. Alabama at 9 and 3 at the end of the year with a win over Georgia being compared directly to Notre Dame. You think Notre Dame's gonna win that battle? I, I.

[B]

Yes. Because Georgia's mid 2. Why is Georgia.

[C]

But you're not.

[D]

But you're not in the room, but.

[C]

You'Re not in the committee. I'm asking you what you think is going to happen, should happen.

[B]

No, but it's also one of those things like we're talking about like well, George is going to lose to Georgia Tech. So like that's one of those. Like we'll have to see by the time we get to the last weekend of the regular season who does Notre Dame went to win the Georgia. Georgia Tech game like I don't know.

[C]

But I'm just telling you right now, and you know this as well as anybody, nobody gives a crap if Notre Dame beats Pittsburgh. That does nothing to move the needle.

[B]

But that's, but like that on its face is a ridiculous thing to say because what if pits like 9 and.

[C]

2 and they might be now if Pitt is a top 15 team and is 9 and 2 then they will.

[B]

Why does anybody give a crap if somebody beats Vanderbilt or Missouri or South Carolina or LSU or Ole Miss? Why does anyone give a crap about that? Or Tennessee? Why are those wins good? We can play the mid game right now.

[C]

We're on the same, we're on the same team. I'm just know how this works and you do too. Like where do you think 10 and 2 or 9 and 3 Vanderbilt will be ranked at the end of the year in comparison to a 10 and 2 PIT team, like they will be ranked ahead of them.

[B]

I actually, I can hear the committee chairman saying we respected Notre Dame's win against 9 win PIT. I can hear them saying that, yeah, I don't think the committee is, is as beholden to the narratives as the, the college football punditry is. So.

[C]

Yeah, but the question will be a, a one loss SEC or a SEC loss or team that has one extra loss than Notre Dame being directly compared to Notre Dame. If Notre Dame's best selling point is we lost two really good teams and not who they beat, my understanding of how it works is always they will err towards who you beat before who you lost to.

[B]

But they also changed their mind from year to year. And also I would not be surprised if it comes up in the committee room that Texas A and M blatantly held on the touchdown pass to beat Notre Dame and the refs didn't see it because they were looking the wrong way. So like that's the kind of thing that can come up because they both those games are down to the wire. Right. Miami's a three point loss on the road. Texas A M is down to the wire in the last play of the game at home on a blatant missed call that everybody in America agrees was a missed call.

[C]

So you think they're a lock? Yeah, 10 and two.

[B]

I, I mean the context of everything matters. If we, if we wind up in a situation where there's a bunch of one loss teams, I would not call it a lock. I am not, not at all nervous about putting Notre Dame here as a team that can win it all. I'm not, I did not make this pick thinking like, oh, if they get in. I kind of, I'm. I really believe they'll get in. I really believe they'll get in because as you said, crazy stuff always happens. And I do think they'll win out.

[C]

Yeah, I think they're gonna win out. I, I think they will win out and I think they're very good and I think people don't respect how good they are because they have two losses. So I'm with you on 95 of what you're saying. And I think they will get into. If I had to guess, they will get in. I just would not be shocked or floored if we get to the end of the year and you have, you know, multiple. Like, what if Texas Tech is a one loss team? I don't know. Like, you can start going through your mind at scenarios, but yeah, no, we're.

[B]

Talking about, like, mid Steelers.

[C]

Notre Dame is on my list. Yes.

[B]

Yeah, it's on your list, Bill, or.

[D]

No, they are on my list. Yeah. The one thing that hasn't been said, assuming they get there, like, I think it matters that they've gone through it. Right. Like. Like they'll. The staff, like, has the institutional knowledge of what it is to navigate the playoff, which I think matters.

[B]

Yeah. By the way, ACC title odds right now as we sit, Georgia Tech plus 230. Miami plus 260 for.

[D]

Really?

[B]

Plus 440. Yeah. So. All right, so that's six. Bill, who's next for you?

[D]

I'll throw up. A m. Okay.

[B]

I also have them in. Ari. Do have them in.

[C]

I do. Yeah.

[B]

You could do it. Okay. We don't have to spend a ton of time on this. Is there anything that, like, in particular you like about Texas A M, Bill?

[D]

I just think, like, Mike Elko is a good coach and I actually think he's like, you want to talk about, like, navigating like, the gauntlet. He seems to me to have a, like, a good way of helping his team, like, navigate, like, in game swings. Right. Like, some of these games they played have been pretty close, but they don't really seem to like, crumble when those pressure moments arise, which I think is a good quality to have if you're trying to get through it. Like, talent wise. I think they have certainly have what it needs to get there. I don't know. I've gone back and forth on whether or not I think they're actually going to win the. The sec, but I think their schedule probably sets up to get them to Atlanta pretty well. Like, maybe better than the most other teams in the sec.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Well, yeah. And I think that, like.

[D]

Right.

[C]

My antennas went up when you said there's a team that you're not sure is going to make it, but could. I wonder if that's the team. I think it is, but if it is, I'm going to lose my mind. But that team's on Texas A M schedule at the end of the year.

[D]

Oh, no, it's not.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Okay. So. So I think I'm in agreement on this. Can I just say one thing I forgot to say about Notre Dame. This, I think, is the one of my. I have not made this argument yet in my. The SEC is mid argument. I think it's one of the most compelling cases. Notre Dame beat Arkansas by 43, Old Miss beat Arkansas by 6, Memphis beat Arkansas by 1, Tennessee beat Arkansas by 3, and Texas A&M beat Arkansas by 3.

[C]

Well, that doesn't account for the Bobby Petrino magic, buddy.

[B]

Arkansas is like, an example of. It's like, oh, it's like the NFL. It's like. It is like the sec. It's a gauntlet. And like, all these middle of the pack SEC teams that are ranked and are supposed to be good are scraping by. Arkansas and Notre Dame blew their doors off to the extent that they fired their coach the next day.

[C]

So I actually felt bad for Arkansas during the game. I was like, they need to stop this. This is, like, obscene.

[B]

Did you feel bad for Arkansas when they almost beat Texas A M or when they almost beat Tennessee, did you feel bad for him then?

[C]

So the reason why A M is on my list, though, is because exactly what Bill said of, like, in the past, like, battered Aggie syndrome, will tell you I'm married to one. Like, they don't beat Notre Dame. Did he. Did he hold the guy? Did he not hold the guy? I don't know, Doug. I wasn't there. But, like, I do know that, like, they won the game. Like, A M, the way they won the game at Notre Dame almost felt like a hex was being removed from the program because that is like, the bona fide way that A M lose lost games over the years over and over again. Like, it almost felt like they finally got one to fall their way. And like, they're winning a bunch of close games. They don't play anybody elite. I think they will make it to Atlanta. Could they beat. They don't play Alabama or Georgia in the regular season, which I think is kind of a drag. So they might end up playing one of them in the. In Atlanta. But. But it is an interesting dynamic of, like, do you think they could beat Oregon, Ohio State, Georgia and someone else in a row? Like, I don't know. But I think that being undefeated and beating Notre Dame gives you the right to not be dismissed. That you agree? Yeah.

[B]

So that's seven teams, and I'm out on my six. My six have all been said. Ari, give us another team.

[C]

Okay, so has anyone said Georgia yet? Are we out on Georgia?

[D]

I have Georgia on my list.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right, all right. Talk, talk. Talk to us about George. Ari.

[C]

So I actually am with you, and I was driving back somewhere very late at night during the off season. I was listening to your guys's show and I listened to you guys. You. I think you had a similar topic on your show about, like, that we have right now about, like, who do you think could Win it or who's like a lot. And like Bill, didn't you say that you thought Georgia was a lockdown to make the playoff, even at like potentially nine and three, like just because. No, the episode premise was. The episode premise was locks to make the playoff. And you said Georgia and Doug got mad and you said that they still have Georgia like aura and like I agreed with you and I actually thought that Georgia was more, more aura than substance. And I still kind of feel like they're a flawed team in the sense that like when I watch them play, I don't get the same feeling that I got shot three years ago when they were actually elite. But I, I've been watching them the last few weeks and I've actually faded them on the show, you know, the last three weeks and I thought they've looked highly functional, like more functional than I would have thought. Now their passer efficiency, the pass rush efficiency is pretty bad, which is not something that you would expect from a team that usually is just terrorizing the quarterback the entire game, which could come back to haunt them. But I think Gunner Stockton is playing high level football in a way that I didn't think that he could. I actually think you made the case that he was an upgrade from Carson Beck in terms of what he gives you. He's made big throws and big moments in games. They certainly could have lost. That throw he made at the end of Tennessee game I thought was an incredible play. I thought it was great. So it was great. I, I don't know. I would not pick them to win, but I think that given who their coach is, given the way that they have been typically, you know, built the way they are built this year, still a top ten top seven team. I don't. Top five team in total talent. I'm not willing to dismiss them as can't do it right now. I wouldn't pick them. I feel like that with Georgia and with Alabama the same way. Like I wouldn't pick them to do it, but I would not dismiss them right now.

[D]

Yeah, I, I think it's, it's hard for me to shake the talent thing too. And maybe that's probably not the best way to analyze this. There is something about Gunnar Stockton and big moments that I think like, like would become pretty valuable if they got to that point. I do think they're going to get to the playoff. It is odd to watch a Georgia defense. It's not that good though. Like they can't get after the master. Like you can move, you can Move the ball on them. It is. If they were to do it like it would, it would be by flipping their identity from what they were, especially in their first national championship season. But I, I think there's a baseline of talent there that is probably good enough with, with like the right kind of bracket makeup that they could do it. But, but yeah, they wouldn't be my first pick to go win a national title and they probably wouldn't be my second, third, fourth or fifth pick either. But I did have them on my list.

[B]

I think they should have three losses. They were lucky to beat Tennessee. Miracle throw on fourth down they get the two point conversion. Tennessee misses the field goal at the end of regulation. All they need to do is pick a 43 yard field goal in Tennessee beats Georgia. So that should be their second loss because they did lose to Bama. The Auburn thing, Jackson Arnold scored, it should have been 17 nothing. Auburn. Does anybody in America think he didn't score? And then they beat, they, they come back and beat Auburn 20 to 10. They took a touchdown off the board for Auburn. I like it's unbelievable.

[C]

I, I 17 yards of offense the entire second half.

[B]

It sucked the life out of them. So I think they should have lost to Auburn. And then they were trailing Ole Miss by nine entering the fourth quarter and then went on two long drives and Lane Kiffin, Ole Miss team that's a fraud. Crap the bed. So like what does that mean? They had a miracle win against Tennessee. They got, they got a touchdown ripped off the board for Auburn against them and then Ole Miss collapsed. Gunner Stockton is making plays in crunch time. They're also in crunch time all the time. Their back has been against the wall all year against teams that I don't think are that good. So I see a team that I legitimately think should be three and three and I cannot fathom them doing what they need to do in the playoff. And now you could point back and say, well they won the four in a row. It's like, yeah. And I think they should be one in three in those games and they're not. So that's just like I, but it's one of those things. Do you give credit? I mean of course Gunner Stockton should get some credit for that. But also they're like at some point they're not gonna make the play and then they're going to take loss.

[C]

So the game reminds me of the 19 Fiesta Bowl a little bit or the, the off the 19 Ohio State team of like was it targeting, was it a fumble like how much can one bad call deflate you? And I think that Auburn was completely deflated. There's no question about it. Do you us like, assign zero credit for a defense shutting an offense to like less than 25 yards in an entire half? Like, I think that like, there are two ways of looking at these things.

[B]

But Auburn stinks also.

[C]

Auburn does stink. Their offense stinks certainly. But I assign credit in game like the Tennessee game. There's probably no credit to assign. They got lucky. They won, period. There was a kick that could have gone in. You lose. There's no fight left in that. But I assign credit for the wins that they got against Ole Miss and Auburn for, for what they did. Now. Inherently flawed team. If you think they're number one or you're an SEC person that has them in your top three right now, you're not looking at it clearly. I wouldn't rank, rank them that high. But you know, also I've heard, I listen to your guys' show all the time. So, like, I kind of have a general idea of like what Doug thinks of Kirby Smart. Like, what is your actual opinion of Kirby Smart? Do you think he's the best coach in college football or do you think he's a fraud?

[B]

No, I think he's a good coach who can't control his players off the field. So, like, I think like getting his team ready to win a football game. He's really good.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I thought that since the Ohio State Georgia semifinal, I thought he had complete control of that program on the football field and actually was sort of like, man, Ryan Day could kind of learn some things from this guy because this guy's got his arms around everything. And so I think that continues to be the case. I, I find it interesting that they, they've just been scra. They've been a, like Stetson Bennett is such a savior for that program. But like, they're just. Their whole quarterback thing's been kind of in a weird spot for like six years and they've kind of overcome it or found that they tried not to start sets in Ben. He was a third string guy and he forced themselves, he forced them to play him, him. And then like Carson Beck blows up, has to leave like in shame. And Gunner Stockton, I still don't know exactly what Gunner Stockton is, but it feels like at the end of a game he's running around, throw it like so. But is that good? Is he good?

[D]

No. Which is like, this guy stinks unless he's in the super bowl kind of thing.

[B]

Yes, yes, I agree with that. So, like, but there's, there's nothing there. I, I. Bill, you were saying, like, I just don't know what there is to grab on to because usually with Georgia added spats, it's like, well, bet on the defense. Bet on Stetson Bennett finding a way. I'm not there with anything about Georgia.

[C]

During the height of the Alabama run, they had better players than everybody. They were playing. So maybe. But like, there was this cop out of like, yeah, well, Nick Saban's on the sideline. Like, any time they were playing in a big game. Well, yeah, Nick Saban's on the sideline. Does Georgia absorb any credit or deserve any credit for. Yeah, Kirby Smart's on the sideline.

[D]

I think there's some of that. I give him some of that.

[B]

I think there's some, I mean, he called timeout that they said wasn't a timeout because he's Kirby Smart.

[D]

He's clapping. He's clapping.

[B]

Yeah. So they're just like, they just, you know, the SEC is like in, in the tank for their teams to let them survive. I mean, they've, they've, they stole two wins from Auburn this year in the Oklahoma game and the Georgia game, and that benefits the sec. So, like, if this was happening in another conference, it's all. Paul Feinbaum would talk about the scandal in the Big Ten about their, they're screwing their teams to keep the, the top teams afloat. And they've absolutely boned Auburn twice.

[C]

I can't tell you how bad I feel for Hugh. Freeze.

[B]

Check his phone, man. Check his phone bill.

[C]

Was I serious about that or was I joking? You decide.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

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Hiring.

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[B]

Bill, do you have any more playoff teams that can win the national title on your list?

[D]

I had. I had two more. One was with the asterisks, but I'll give you the one that didn't have the asterisks with Texas Tech.

[B]

Okay. All right. Do you have them?

[C]

I do.

[B]

Okay. I probably should have them, but I just am still a little bit of like, ah, like this, this Frankenstein's monster of assembled pieces. Like, is it really gonna get all the way through? And I know they lost with their backup quarterback, so, yeah, I'll be back in and they'll be okay.

[C]

Is that a thing? Because Will Hammond looked awesome earlier in the season when he played like, are we. Are we pinning the ASU game on their backup quarterback? Playing like.

[B]

I'm sure the committee will.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. 37 times for 167 yards.

[B]

So, yeah, the committee's going to give him an out on that if it comes down to a. An iffy situation. I'm sure they will. But like Bill, you do think their defense is pretty darn good, right?

[D]

I think the defense is legit. I'm like. And it's not. I think I said this at the time. There are. There are a few things you can do in college football. They'll be more impressive to me than going to Utah. Just completely owning them at the line of scrimmage the way that Texas did in that game. And I don't know. Romello Height and David Bailey, like, I don't know if there's a better defensive end tandem in college football. Maybe Miami, but that probably be the only one. Those guys are crazy. So their pressure numbers are through the roof. They just hit like. Like whatever they bought. They bought a roster and they bought good players. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah, work for them. I thought that they were gonna get. So I have this on my desk. A listener sent this to us because we always joke that every Vegas line In the Big 12 is three and a half points, no matter who's playing. And that was like dating back to the Texas Oklahoma days. And he like, minted us this coin that says three and a half on one side and it's got the Big 12 on the other with all the team names. Cool gift. And I thought that, that Texas Tech was going to throw a wrench in that whole thought process of, like, it doesn't matter who they play in the Big 12. They're just going to beat the crap out of them. And then they played Arizona State and lost on Saturday. And I. And I have pause about it, like, Texas Tech would have been higher maybe on my list, you know, if we did this last Wednesday, you know. But I respect the talent level. They have talent level on their team that you won't find anywhere else in the Big 12. And I don't know if their total talent would stack up with a team like Ohio State. Certainly wouldn't. I don't know if their total talent would even stack up with an Alabama or an Ole Miss, but I think they're going to get there. And if they're playing well and their defense is nasty, they have a shot.

[B]

I can't tell if the PFF person for Texas Tech is just a pushover because Texas Tech, according to pressures by PFF, has number one, number two and four in the power four. And David Bailey has 49 pressures, Bill, and that's 13 more than anybody else. And second is his teammate, Romello Height. So is that legit it that they legitimately have three people in the top four pressures in the country. Or is the thumb on the scale? I'm a PFF person there.

[D]

Who's to say? Maybe they. Maybe they bought PFF, too.

[C]

I mean, I. I will say that when you watch Texas Tech play, you feel their pressure.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So, okay.

[B]

You know, good for Texas Tech. That's. I mean, like, they're good. They're good. You can't deny they're good.

[C]

And I've got one more. Landis, did you have one more? Am I the last one? I have one.

[D]

I have an asterisk team that I think could do it if they got in, but I'm not sure.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

My.

[C]

My last one's gonna make Doug mad, and I kind of want to just go now. I don't. I don't even want to do this. Is Ole Miss worth talking about?

[D]

So is they playing Washington State?

[B]

It's like, why do you think Ole Miss is good? Like, what makes you think that all.

[C]

This scored five times in a row against Georgia's defense? And I know. Yeah. And this might be me falling into the trap of sec. Like, I'm, like, actually ashamed of myself right now. You're making me feel.

[B]

But they are a defensive success rate, by the thing I was saying so often. Success rate. Their 15th off defensive success rate. They're 108.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I. I actually think not. I'm not being bullied, but as we were talking about this, I was thinking about my list. I'll take Ole Miss off.

[B]

Oh, it's a victory.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, it's like, I put it there because they were undefeated going into last week, and I thought they played a really good. I thought they played, like, a really fun, entertaining game against Georgia. And I look at the rest of their schedule. They're Oklahoma, South Carolina, Citadel, Florida, and Mississippi State. They're underdogs, funny enough, against Oklahoma this week, and I think they're probably gonna lose, which should have been my first reason to not put them on. I picked Oklahoma to cover the spread this week, but. But I feel like they're kind of a lock to get to the playoff at this point. I think they've got the fourth highest or fourth best odds to make the playoff, and I think Lane Kiffin can draw up some offensive plays, and maybe they can make some noise and, And. But four in a row. I, I. I'm gonna change my mind. I don't know if they could win four in a row with that defense.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

One score Win over Kentucky, one score. Win over Arkansas. All right, so we're actually taking Ole Miss off the list. We're dropping Ari back to nine. Landis, who's your asterisk team?

[D]

Usc.

[B]

Ooh, speak it.

[D]

I, I think they might have the best offense in the country and like some of the underlying numbers would support it. And like if they're 10 and two, because a 10 and two would include a win over Oregon and it's a two point loss to Illinois on the road and a loss to Notre Dame on the road like in the rain. The idea of that offense in a playoff setting in like sterile conditions with extra time to prepare, I wouldn't want to have to go against them. Also jam throws, crazy picks sometimes, similar.

[B]

To the Ole Miss argument. Right. I mean it's like their defense is.

[D]

Better than Ole Miss's defense.

[B]

High level offense, high level play caller, take your shot. And I like I if they beat Oregon. So the only way they can do this is if they win out and that includes a win over Oregon. That's what we talked about, Bill. I think they would be in now. Again, we're talking about roadblocks. Miami and Texas A M are roadblocks for Notre Dame. Notre Dame's a roadblock for USC. If USC and, and Notre Dame are both 10 and 2 trying to go, of course it's like it. But that's a pretty com. I mean, Illinois kicked a field goal in the last play of the game for that loss. Right. And like beating Oregon would carry a lot of weight.

[D]

So I do think USC like sleep, slept. Walked its game itself, like for the first three quarters.

[C]

Here's the national narrative, as you guys, you know, is that they play teams that are physically tough and they kind of wilt in those games. They really did change that, changed the mission when they beat Michigan. That changed it a little bit.

[D]

It was cursed for the first time on our show.

[C]

But like, I never felt like they were going to beat Notre Dame at any point in the game on Saturday.

[D]

Yeah. But I think Notre Dame's good. And I think like, like the one thing is like my other throw, a weird pick against Michigan, didn't really matter. I guess he threw two picks against Notre Dame. Like he has it in him. But like when he's good, that offense is awesome.

[C]

Yeah, there was that one play that he did it a little ifaak with the high safety in the Notre Dame game. I saw that clip on Twitter the other day and threw that dime to Jacoby Lane. That was a pretty sick play.

[D]

But, yeah, I don't know about USC is if, like. Like, they're. I know they're down a couple running backs. Like, are they. Is it possible they get healthier there? Because they're really balanced, too. They run the ball really well and throw it well, and they're explosive. And, like, I don't think their defense is great, but I think it's solid. I don't know. I just. I think they. If they got there, I think they'd be, like, kind of a tough out, which is. I don't know if that's gonna be, like, lame analysis, but I. I'm. I don't think they'll all get there. But that Oregon, USC game could be a bit of a banger.

[B]

Oregon schedule really matters down the stretch. But, yeah, they. They hold Oregon. USC could really matter. Oregon, Washington could really matter in the end since. So you're not going all the way. Landis, this is an ass. It's not actually on your list.

[D]

Correct. Yeah.

[B]

Ari and Bill, nine teams each. Same nine. I had six and I just. There were three that I didn't have. So we all say who can win? Who do we think can win the national title in 2025? College football season? The ones we agree on. All of us say Ohio State. All of us say Indiana. All of us say Oregon. All of us say Miami. All of us say Notre Dame. All of us say Texas A and M. Bill and Ari also say Alabama, Georgia and Texas Tech. And I will just say from a betting standpoint, which is certainly not the end all. Be all. Ohio State's the favorite at + 260. Bama + 650. Indiana + 800. Oregon + 950 Texas A M& Notre Dame 1100. Georgia 1200. Miami 17, 1 Texas 18, 1 Ole Miss 22. 1 Oklahoma 28. 1 Texas Tech 30 to 1. Vanderbilt 40 to 1. Missouri 45. 1 Tennessee 61. Everybody else 100 to 1 or more. I thought when you guys already built. Ari, when you, like, did anyone think about Texas?

[D]

No.

[C]

I mean, I. It dawned on me because I'm mentally ill, but. No.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

If they would. If they would have. If they would have, like, handled Kentucky, I probably would have had them on my list.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Their offensive line is really bad.

[B]

Awful.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And you can't fix that. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. All right, that's it for our who can win the national title discussion here on the Bill and Doug show, which means it's time for the good stuff. Stuff. What you watching, what you eating, what you Thinking we're glad to have Ari here to talk about life with us. Ari Wasserman. What are you watching?

[C]

Have you thought about putting this at the front of the show or, you know.

[B]

No, because. No, everybody would turn off the football. Then at the end, like, people hang in for this, man.

[C]

Yeah. Two shows and I actually think I'll. I love Task on hbo. I think that HBO in general is like the high quality pizza joint and Netflix is Domino's. Now, Netflix, Domino's hits. I like Domino's, but when you hit it right on hbo, man, there is nothing like it. If you watch Mayor of East Town, Task is very similar. Same geographical area, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. I thought it was an incredible show, and I just finished it on Sunday with my wife. We watched it every Sunday and I thought the finale was good, which is really hard to do in miniseries as well, so. And Mark Ruffalo is an absolute dog of an actor. I thought that the whole. Did you guys watch it?

[D]

Yes, I haven't watched it yet. I was waiting for it to be finished so I can sit down and do it all.

[B]

Oh, bye week binge.

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[D]

It's really good.

[C]

And the other one I'm watching is Black Rabbit because it has Jason Bateman. And if I think I remember correctly, you love Jason Bateman, don't you, Doug?

[B]

I do. I'm a silver spoons guy.

[C]

We're not through it yet. We're just on episode three.

[B]

But what is this? What, what, what? I haven't heard of Black Rabbit.

[C]

Black Rabbit is on Netflix and it's about a guy who opened up a restaurant with his brother. His brother becomes disenchanted for whatever reason. Then the brother comes back into the picture. The. The restaurant. It's a swanky place in New York City, and it turns out the brother is a complete disaster. And then. And the brother is Jason Bateman. And okay, Jason Bateman is. Is peak Jason Bateman. And it just not giving too much away, but he has a gambling problem and it gets out of control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's excellent.

[B]

What?

[D]

I heard him. I heard him talk about it and he was, like, very excited to play. Like, you would assume he'd be like the straight laced one. And he's not.

[C]

No, he was. He's the. He's the misfit in this one. But he also still speaks like Jason, baby. All right, like, listen, you know, like how he does that. That it's really, really. We're not through it. I don't know if the ending's good because I haven't gotten that far. But it's a tremendous show so far. I'm enjoying it.

[B]

I, I. You watch that thinking there, but for the grace of God go, I like a show about a guy whose gambling problem destroys his life.

[C]

I legitimately can understand how that happens to people.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. There's alternate universe, Ari. Instead of this beautiful family and a nice house and a wonderful career, you're somewhere with your knees nailed to the floor.

[C]

I have a governor. I have a governor. Like, if I lose a certain amount or I get to a place where I'm in a bad swing of it, I can stop.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

So that's the important thing. Like, if you don't have the governor, you should not participate in the activity because I find it intoxicating. And, like, it's so funny how life works for people because, like, I have struggled with governors in other areas of my life.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I could have a six pack of beer in the fridge and walk by it every day for a month and never look at it. Large pizza in the fridge. It's not going to make it to the morning. You know, like, there are certain things and gambling I enjoy very much, but I know how to control myself, thankfully, because there is an alternate universe that's, like, right next door that I like. My life is ruined over it.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy, man. It'd be so funny if your life is ruined. That guy serious for a second there, Bill. What are you watching?

[D]

As we discussed before, I'm bad at watching shows, so I have no new show to talk about, but I have been watching this thing on Tik Tok. There's. There's this guy, his name is Omar Knock N. Okay. And he had previously done a thing where he went from Egypt to Japan without flying and documented the whole thing on Tick Tock. And now he is doing a different thing where he is starting in Egypt and going around the entire world and ending up back in Egypt without flying. And he started it two weeks ago. And he's only in Libya, which is the country that's right next to each.

[B]

Riding his bike.

[D]

What's he doing? He's like, he's like, at the mercy of, of the people that he encounters. So, like, he'll get rides from people here and there. I think he'll take a train. Obviously, at some point he's gonna have to get on a boat. But he's not there yet. But yeah, he, like, left Cairo and got to. Is it Tripoli in Libya?

[B]

Yeah. Right.

[D]

And I Guess there's like unrest in Libya. So like there's the eastern side and the western side and he got stamped in on the eastern side and then he got to the westerner side and they didn't recognize his stamp. So then he was like entering the country illegally. And like it was like if you follow like his Tick Tocks, it was like day eight, I'm in Libya and then nothing for almost two weeks. And it's like day 17, finally leaving Libya. Like his entire things got thrown off track. But the things that people do for social media fame. But also I'm just like super interested in like once he gets to like when he was the point where he's getting on a boat.

[C]

Right.

[D]

I'm so. I'm just super fascinated by what he's going to do to get himself from the western coast of Africa to presumably somewhere in South America. But yeah, it's taken him two weeks to get from Egypt to Libya, which probably doesn't seem like a great start.

[B]

And he's documenting it on social media.

[D]

All on Tick Tock. Well, he might be on other social medias, but I followed on Tick Tock. Yeah. So like this, this particular journey, he's like six, whatever Tick Tock videos into it. And they're not long, they're like 90 seconds. But over time he will, in theory find himself circumnavigating the globe without flying.

[B]

Okay, you might like this. I read this book, it's from 2008 and it's. There's two guys who are TV writers, but they decided to race each other around the world, not using airplanes. And then they wrote a book about their journey. It's called the Ridiculous Race. So it's kind of the same. Yeah. Trying to go around the world. So do you guys. Did I already talk about the chair company, Bill? I don't think I did.

[D]

No, you haven't.

[B]

New Tim Robinson HBO show. So it's set in central Ohio. Do you guys know that. That it's like this new Tim Robinson comedy on hbo. And in the first episode it talks about like he has a kid in high school and they're playing Upper Arlington and Dublin Jerome. And it's like, what? But then he's building a mall, but the mall's in Canton. So like the Columbus Dispatch has already done a story about this. I think other people have. And it was like, is this show in central Ohio or not Hot? Because you're dropping Columbus area high schools, but the malls in Canton. And HBO was like, yeah, no, it's not In. It's not in Columbus. And they were like, no, yeah, it is in Columbus. And it's like, okay, you guys just don't know what the heck you're talking about. But it's also one of the things. And I've talked about Tim Robinson on this show before. I don't. Like, wherever you guys are with Tim Robinson, his whole thing again, and this is like, he works at a chair company in a Columbus suburb, and he's just like. Like, I live in the suburbs. Let's go get a taco. And it's just like, I can't. I can't with this guy. Like, I don't understand what this appeal is. And I get it. There's different strokes for different folks. But it. The whole thing is like, I think he's making it the. Like, I could work in and off. Like, I think he's making fun of my life. Like, he's some Hollywood guy who's like, hey, lame. Hey, lame Central Ohio suburban guys. Look at me.

[D]

I wear.

[B]

I wear a quarter zip to work. And I. It's like, it's just life, man. Why have to be a jerk about it? Ari, you love Tim Robinson, right? No. Yes.

[C]

I think that he has moments in all of his shows that he's hilarious, but for whatever reason, his content overall does not hit for me.

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[C]

And like, there are certain things in Detroiters that I thought were hilarious, but, like, the actual show show, I think stinks. Does that make sense? What was that movie that he just did with Friendship? Yeah, I watched that movie and I thought it was like, there were times where this guy is hilarious, but I didn't like the movie. Can I, like, does that make sense? I don't even know.

[B]

I thought there was a good four minute sketch in that movie, but I didn't think it needed to be a movie.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Tim Robinson's biggest problem is that vine doesn't exist anymore. Right. He was just doing everything and two minute chunks. It'd be great. But yeah, you don't need 10 minutes of Tim Robinson.

[B]

Like, that same. I didn't. Just didn't realize because it's like another thing of his. It's the same affectation and it's just like, oh, man, this is like you guys are saying this is for 90 seconds at a time. This is not for a show. But I'm. Now I just have to watch it to see what other Central Ohio references he drops into it.

[D]

Yeah, he didn't last on snl. Like, it feels like everything he does will be built for that show. And now actually, SNL does a bunch of stuff. It's like that. Well, that's a Tim Robinson sketch. He's not on the show anymore. But that's a Tim Robinson sketch. Yeah, but for some reason, he didn't work out there with Sylvania. Seeing better while driving at night starts with you, because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50ft of visibility before burnout. That's why you shouldn't wait.

[B]

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[E]

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[B]

All right, Ari, what are you eating?

[C]

I just want to say that I am completely, like, prejudiced against other cultures food. I found out yesterday.

[D]

Thank God there was a food in there.

[C]

No, no. Like. And not all their food, their carbs. Like, I am such a snob when it comes to bun potato American food carbs. And I have a hard time catching on with other people's carbs. That said, I had a conversation about this with Bill the other day and I went and got Chinese food. Fried rice is by far the best carb that's not American food on the planet.

[B]

What am I?

[C]

What's wrong?

[D]

Have you had non.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, that's pretty fire. But that's like bread. That's fried bread. I put that in the American so side, like, you know, that's fried bread.

[D]

Oh, that's the people from India. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

But I think that pork fried rice is the best side slash appetizer slash carb that you can find in all of foreign cuisine. And I. And it kind of hit me the.

[B]

Other day, wow, like. Like, stand up. You're a stand for fried rice. Okay.

[C]

So good.

[B]

Good.

[C]

And I'm not even a rice person, but it is so, so good.

[B]

Fried rice is so good.

[C]

Because, like, I get into trouble about my opinions on Mexican food. I think Mexican food is all the same everywhere, no matter where you go. Expensive restaurant, cheap restaurant. And then I found out that I don't love Mexican food because their carbs stink. Like, the best thing that you can get is a tortilla that tastes the same everywhere. Now, they're great tortillas. I've had some that stand above the. But 99% of restaurants, the tortillas are similar. Mexican rice and refried beans don't hit it the way that French fries and buns do for me. So I think that's part of the reason why I have that opinion. And then I had fried rice the other night, and it hit me like, this is it right here. Like, this is. This is it. So I get kind of offensive there. And I don't have, like, a specific thing, but, like, I just wanted to shout out to your local Asian restaurant for making a great carb that isn't an American. Like, naan isn't even a common thing. Dude, dude. Like, where do I even go to get none? I don't even know where I would get that.

[D]

There are. I don't know. They're like 6 billion people in India and they. They.

[C]

Yeah, I know, but we're. But I live in Dallas. Like, Dan, I told you. Dan Rubenstein called me. He goes, I heard your Mexican food take. It's awful. Have you ever eaten legit Mexican food in Mexico City? I'm like, that doesn't have any bearing on my opinion. I'm not in Mexico City. I might go there one time in my life for a wedding or something and eat their great food. I'm not saying that there's no good food in the world. I'm saying as it pertains to my general existence and where I eat, which is an American restaurants, they don't serve dynamic, diverse food.

[B]

I. I would get it if somebody in Ohio was like, I don't know about the Mexican food here, but you're in Texas. I'm surprised.

[C]

And that's why people get mad, because I think that it bears weight in Texas. I think that's all the same. I think if you go to Chewy's or you go to the Papacitos here, it's the same thing.

[B]

Okay, so you are not down with opc.

[C]

I don't even know what that means.

[D]

Other people's cuisine?

[B]

Other people's carbs.

[C]

Other people. Other people's carbs. Yeah, yeah, I like our carb, you know? And, like, you were like, non. It's like, okay, well, the best version of an American bun. Sure.

[D]

I don't think. You know what non is.

[C]

Isn't it, like, fried, like, flat bread?

[D]

Indian?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Flatbread. Yeah. It's like.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I know what it is.

[B]

Yeah. I almost think the opposite of that. Like, carbs are what brings us together, because, like, every culture has, like, meat and bread, right? It's like, give me your style of meat and bread, and then, like, we're just all brothers and sisters together. Interesting. I feel like we should just sit down sometime in person, the three of us, and just eat, like, 10 different kinds of meat and bread from 10 different cuisines.

[C]

And the one thing, the last thing I want to say, and for the sake of this show not being nine hours, I saw somebody did a Talladega Nights Thanksgiving. And I don't know if you know what that means if you haven't seen that movie in a while, but everybody brings their own fast food, like, appetizer slash side slash dish. And, like, somebody brought McDonald's fries. Somebody brought Domino's. Somebody brought Taco Bell, and it was just put out on display. I would much rather have that Thanksgiving than the traditional one.

[B]

Oh, I would bring Pizza Hut breadsticks, right?

[C]

Like, I would bring cheesy bread from Domino's. Bill would bring French fries from somewhere, and it would be better than any gourmet turkey stuffing dish that you could.

[D]

Ever come up with.

[B]

I like turkey, too.

[D]

All right.

[B]

Yeah. Landis, what are you eating?

[D]

I've had to update my top five breakfast burritos, because I had one the other day from a. I think it's a food truck in Columbus. It's called Bite Me, which is a great name. Their. Their breakfast burrito was top notch, and I have it now. It's now number four on my list. I'd like to give you the list, if that's okay.

[B]

Write this down.

[D]

Number one is Tia Sophia's. It's like a cafe in Santa Fe, New Mexico. This smother that thing in cheese and green and green and red chili. It's great. Number two, which is more attainable, I think, for folks in the Big Ten landscape. Muchachos and Lincoln, Nebraska. It's like a. It's like a barbecue place, but they do a barbecue brisket breakfast burrito that'll knock your socks off. Number three is Kono's Cafe in San Diego, Pacific beach right there on the ocean. Number four is bite me, the one I just had from the food truck here in Columbus. And then number five, I can't remember the name, but there was a food truck with the Rose bowl media Day in 2018. They were so good, I can't remember what they were called, but I just, like, stopped. I stopped interviewing people just standing by.

[C]

The food truck housing breakfast by that burrito that I was able to buy the Tate Martel story for you for $10. And that's the day that Tate Martel threw a jab at Justin Fields.

[D]

Yes, it was. And I was perfectly content.

[C]

Because you were in a food. Did you know the story, Doug, where I paid him 10 bucks when you.

[B]

Guys were at the Athletic, you bought.

[C]

Yeah, we both recovering Ohio State, and we were, like, fighting over angles. And I said, I will give you 10 or $20 out of my wallet right now if you let me have the Tate Martell angle when he's made it. Because it was at the time where he was only made available once a year.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I was like, I want it. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And that was the day he popped off and said, if you swing twice, you better not miss. And Landis was in the back corner eating his breakfast burrito. I was like, yeah, baby.

[B]

Feels like worth it.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that breakfast burrito had tater tots in it.

[D]

It did, yes. Which I think is. You don't need it. Like, so. Three of the four that I listed do not have have tater tots in them, but that one did. And the one I had here in Columbus had tater tots in it.

[B]

I think that if you're going to be in my top five, I think you have to have tater tots to have that crunch in it. Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. That's fair. Yeah.

[B]

But I think. I mean, for me, because I wasn't working with you guys, so I could have both. I ate a breakfast burrito with tater tots in it, and I interviewed Tate Martel and wrote a story about it. It's one of the 10 best days of my life.

[C]

Have you ever bought something from somebody for cheaper than it was worth and then felt bad after? Like, I had remorse. Like, I felt like I ripped them off. Like, I was like, I gave him 20 bucks, but, like, my boss is gonna think I'm awesome at my job today.

[D]

Yeah, he became. Yeah, yeah. He became the lead national writer because he paid me $20.

[C]

And now I'm here. Thanks.

[B]

Oh, my God. For real? Oh, my God. Is that what happened?

[C]

And no, I actually. My company to say I'm not going to be on the Ohio State beat anymore unless you let me move to be near my girlfriend. And they're like, you could just do this instead.

[D]

That's.

[C]

That's what happened.

[B]

Wow. I used to. I had the clip on my phone for a while, like, when we got done with that Tate Martell interview, and I said, like, man, you don't know. We've been waiting to talk to you for a while. And he was like, yeah, I know. And like, it was like a seven second clip I had at my phone for four years. I just like to look at it sometimes. Be like, look at this. This is player and media coming together and everybody. Everybody thriving, you know? So my eating. I can't believe you said that. Because when I say, like, when I think breakfast burrito, I think that Rose bowl food truck, that's number one for me. I'm so happy you said it. I just want to talk about, like. Like, when you go to a restaurant and I was at Culver's the other day. This happens. But it was also, like, at A W. Root beer. Maybe other places. If you go to a place that has root beer on tap at the fountain for the sodas, you got to get root beer right.

[D]

Or you're a lunatic. That's the only time I have root beer.

[B]

Yes, me too. But I thought. And I thought this because this is how Ari would characterize this. I actually thought it while I was doing it. I was thinking to myself, this will be a good. Watch out. I was like, oh, Ari's gonna be on. Because Ari would say, if you go to a root beer restaurant and you don't get root beer to drink, you're a psychopath. Right, Right. So do you agree with that, Ari?

[C]

I do. If I were at an. Like, you never see a W on tap. I actually am not a huge root beer fan. I actually think that most root beer tastes the same. Like, I can't. There's not. It's indecipherable to me. But if I Were at a W or I was a place that had root beer on draft. I would. I would. I agree with that. I would have it.

[B]

Yeah, you have to get it. Okay. Like every. Like, is this even not an interesting watch? Because everybody listening and watching is like.

[C]

Yeah, well, if you want to make it more interesting, you can do your. Your draft of best ways to consume soda. Like, can, glass bottle.

[B]

Everyone thinks fountain. Everyone thinks. Everyone thinks fountains. Number one. Right?

[C]

Yeah, I think so. So, yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

But I think that a tall, ice cold can of regular coke on a hot day is pretty great.

[D]

Yeah. And plastic bottle's the worst.

[C]

Plastic bottle's the worst.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do think. But no one drink a glass bottle anymore. It's like, are you. What are you a freaking billionaire? Like, I like who. I. I don't have money.

[D]

I had a glass bottle Coke the other day.

[C]

It was great glass bottle that you see in a lot of restaurants now because it's made with real sugar and it's the Mexican Coke. Coke and that. And I can get down with other people's other cultures. Soda choices. Yeah, Glass Coke is really good. And it's. It's in a lot of. They have it in Chipotle. Like, they have it in a lot of places.

[B]

Yeah. All right, Ari, what are you thinking about?

[C]

We had Clark Lee on our show the other day, and him and Andy were bonding before the show about, like, how much they love coffee.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

And Clark Lee was talking about how they have this amazing coffee maker in their practice facility that he has two cups in the morning and one cup in the afternoon. And. Atlantis, I knew you were a big coffee guy, so I wanted to bring this up then. Andy is an avid coffee drinker, much like you are, and then started complaining about how. Not complaining, but pointing out that the coffee machine that he has in his house is not very good. And I just want to say that I think that if you use something every day or something's important to you or an integral. Integral part of, like, what you enjoy, that you should invest in that. Like, I find it absolutely insane that you would use. Or you're a big coffee person and you don't have a great coffee machine in your house, and that goes across the board for anything. If you're a big video game person, then invest in the right tv. If you're a big music person, then invest in the headphones. If you're going to use something every day, spend the money to get the best version of the thing that you use every day and cut corners somewhere Else never cut corners on the things that you enjoy the most.

[D]

I agree.

[B]

What. What did Andy say to your argument? Did he go buy a coffee machine?

[C]

I think he should go buy one. Like, I berated him about it.

[D]

I was like, that's his house. And bought a.

[C]

Like, I understand, too, that, like, not everybody's in the same financial situation and some people might not have the prerogative of splurging on anything. But, like, if you do something every day and it's like the re. Like, the thing that you enjoy the most, like, there was no amount of money that I wouldn't spend to, like, scratch that itch. If it's something that's an important part of my life.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I do think people there is. Things are just off in life sometimes. It's like, well, I don't want to spend 200 on that thing that I would use every day. But I went out to dinner last night. It was 200.

[C]

Yeah. And it was doing. Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like, you're changing lives, Ari. You're changing lives here.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I hope you changed Andy's.

[C]

I hope he does it.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

What are you doing? What do you think about Bill?

[D]

Do you guys see this? This jewel heist in Paris?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

I saw that they stole the crown jewels from the Louvre.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Like. Like, it took, like eight minutes. And the way they did it was like, they're gonna smash. Smash and grab. I just want to know, like, am I allowed? I'm a law abiding citizen. Am I allowed to think a jewel heist is cool as long as no one gets hurt? No one got hurt. I thought it was sweet.

[B]

Well, it's cool. So you heard the Louvre was robbed? And then I initially was like, oh, no. Some. I didn't know they wouldn't be able to get the Mona Lisa. But like, some great painting, right? Some painting that people get pleasure out of going through and looking at this painting from the 1700s, whatever, is gone. And it's like, no, some fancy rocks got stolen. I don't give two craps about those fancy rocks. Take.

[C]

You took Napoleon's crown. I don't care if they would have taken the Mona Lisa. You would have been upset about it. Right?

[B]

Because I don't know how you. How any person derives pleasure from, like, oh, man, look at those jewels sitting there, man. I love looking at those jewels. But I get why someone loves art.

[C]

I understand that the motive of stealing the modalisa or the jewels would be the same. And that's where My confusion was, which is, if you were going to steal something that's so invaluable, you couldn't find a person to buy it it without moving it in some high class, like, black market deal with the richest person on earth, like, what's the point of even doing it? Like, if I were to rob something, I would want to rob something that. You know, I listen to this podcast about this guy who robbed the Bellagio casino, and I think I even. Like, when we were in Vegas, we. The entrance that he robbed, the per. He went to a craps table, robbed all the expensive chips, and then ran out the side door. That side door still functional somehow. But then, like, in the bag, he stole all these chips that were like half a million cranberry chips that, like, only high rollers got their hands on. And it's like, what's the point of going through that and, like, holding up people at gunpoint in a casino, which is like the highest crime outside of murder or something else, like in Vegas, if you can't even move the thing that you stole? So my hope is that whoever stole those jewels, whether you care about them or not, isn't just, like, at home with really expensive jewels that are basically. Because, like, there are certain things in life that are so valuable, they essentially become worthless because you can't get.

[D]

No, you can't. You can't. I was listening the New York Times, the Daily did like, a full episode about it. You can't. Like, Interpol traces all of it. So, like, you can't sell them as is on the black market. But the reason. The theory is the reason they stole. The things they stole are because they were like, they're valuable, but they're also, like, the easiest to break down into smaller jewels. So, like, you cut them. You cut them into unrecognizable whatever and sell them on the black market that way. Because there's actually. There was something in that room that they. Where they stole the stuff from some. I think it was like some. Some kind of jewel that was like Napoleon owned or something that was like, more expensive than all the stuff they stole together. But it was also incredibly recognizable. It's like you could never. Oh, so they stole. They stole things they could break down.

[C]

So there's gonna be somebody in Bexley, Ohio, that has an engagement. Engagement ring with a piece of.

[D]

Yeah. The crown jewels of France.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

That's crazy. Yeah.

[B]

But it did make you feel guilty to think it's cool, right, Landis?

[D]

No. I first wanted to make sure that no One was hurt. And then, like, the brazenness to just do it. It was 9:30 in the morning on a Sunday. There were people in there, and they just. And I guess the other thing was. It makes sense, but, like, the whole. The. The museum security that was in the room first escorted everybody out of the room because they're instructed to, like, protect the people in there. Don't protect. Attack the. The items, like, because of, like, the person has whatever, a weapon of some kind. So they got all the people out, and when they got back into the room, the guys were going with the jewels. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Maybe they'll change that policy. It's like.

[D]

No, I've never been to France.

[C]

I went. I went.

[D]

You.

[C]

I'm sure. I don't know if it was the same. Sure, it's the same mechanism for getting in, but I remember it being incredibly crowded and it took forever, and there was security in this whole thing. So, like, I was in the marvel of, like. Like, it kind of made me feel like it was like an Ocean 11 situation.

[D]

They just climbed the ladder and smashed the window. Yeah.

[C]

And, like, the fact that it was, like, so pedestrian is the most outrageous part about it. Like, you would think in order to get in there, you'd have to. Because it took us an hour to get in just to be a tourist.

[D]

Right.

[C]

I can't imagine just going in there and doing that and leaving.

[B]

Yeah. It's definitely gonna be a movie, right? There'll be a movie. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah.

[D]

Maybe this conversation will be part of the movie.

[B]

God, isn't it the dream? Who would play us? Us as the podcasters talking about the heist.

[C]

But, like.

[D]

But now.

[B]

But like. Like the new Jonah Hill. Like, Jonah Hill is hot now.

[C]

Yeah. Just like Jonah Hill went too far in the other direction with it. I think he looks weird. I think he looked better fat, to be honest.

[B]

Yeah. You.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Next time you walk past the fridge and there's a pizza in there, just think to yourself, I don't want to be like Joe.

[D]

I don't want to go too far.

[B]

Yeah, I'm gonna eat that whole pizza. So I was watching the COVID band the other day, and it's like the COVID band, I think, had, like, a singer, a guitarist, a bassist, a drummer, and it was one of those that has, like, a horn section, and I think they had a sax, a trumpet, and a trombone. And I was just wondering to myself, how does a cover band divide up the money it makes? Because there's no way that the sax player should get as much money as the singer. And there's no way that the trumpet player should get as much money as the guitarist. But like, who's in charge of determining that? Because if you're a real band, like, you figure it out on the ground floor.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I don't know what the Beatles did. Right. I mean, maybe they split everything equally.

[D]

They're like, couldn't figure it out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But when you're a cover band and it's like, oh, yeah, I play the trunk, the trombone in a cover band, it's like. But it's like I get 4%. Like, because what. Because how could the trombone get as much as the singer? Are you. But do you think that that tears the band apart, figuring it out? Do you think there are feelings there? But also, you can't be the singer who's the draw being like, I can't believe this freaking sax player makes as much as me.

[C]

And come back to the next episode of Bill and Doug, where Doug will outline the issues with Nil.

[B]

That's true, but that's. The whole thing is like, we're going to give everybody the same amount. It's like, no, you're not. Because Jeremiah Smith and a third string offensive lineman aren't the same. And I'm sorry, trombone player, but in a cover band, you're the third string offensive lineman. So how do you think they actually do it? What's the conversation like?

[D]

I. I bet they split it evenly. It can't be that much money to begin with. Where were you? Yeah, like at a bar somewhere at.

[B]

A festival where they were playing in front of an elementary school.

[C]

So they were probably getting paid, what.

[D]

100 bucks paid an apple juice. What are you talking about?

[B]

But doesn't that seem crazy to you that it, that it would be equal? It's not equal because like half the time, like, the trombone goes and then just goes like this for like 3 minutes while the guitar players playing the whole song. It's not equal. If there's somebody who's in a cover band who can actually explain this to us, let us know.

[D]

Maybe the horns don't even get paid.

[B]

That's true. All I could think about, I couldn't even enjoy. I couldn't even enjoy the band anymore because I was just thinking about what is the breakdown of this?

[C]

Which position in football is the trombone or the. The horn player?

[B]

Holder.

[C]

Yeah. And then.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So the long snapper could also be like, well, if you don't have a good snap, this whole thing falls apart. The horn guy Goes. You don't. You don't have a horn, that's fine. You want to pay somebody else 3%, that's fine. Go find somebody else who will take 3%. But I'm not going to do it because I. I'm essential. You need the horn.

[B]

But. But go ask the chief's long snapper if he makes the same amount of money as Patrick Mahomes. Right. It's just. I don't know. I don't know how much that is seeped into music culture.

[C]

So you feel honestly right in the heat in front of a Kroger either, like, Right.

[B]

Do you think it's honestly broke you. You bet it's even, Bill. That's your guess?

[D]

You think it's even for something like that? I bet it's even, yeah.

[B]

Ari, you think it's even or no?

[C]

I think it's probably.

[D]

Or.

[C]

Or it's even amongst everybody playing a position instrument and, like, the singer, like, takes most of it.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know. I think it's not even. But also, I could see how, like, it would tear you apart, because you.

[C]

Don'T tear me apart. Like, the Dave Matthews Band or bands that were named after the guy and everybody else involved in it doesn't even get namesake in it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[D]

Especially when Dave Matthews is the worst part of the. Dave Matthews.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Dave Matthews is great, but I don't know. I don't understand the people that went on tour with him for 19 years straight. But, like, does. How do. Do you think it's the same thing with that? Like, does Dave Matthews get 99 and then everybody else is just, get out of here, you piece of. You're not Dave Matthews.

[B]

But if. But if it's even, don't you think at some point that, like, the guitar player Dave Matthews was like, do we need the horns? I don't want this split up seven ways. I want one fourth, not one seventh. Do we need these horns? It's like Rutgers. Like, you don't. If you. If you're not additive, you're just adding pieces of the pie to the conference difference. Is the horn that additive? I don't. I would not want to be in a band with horns because I don't.

[D]

Want to get you, though.

[B]

I know.

[C]

I just could never imagine. Could you imagine if this show was just the Bill show and, like, you were on it every day, but, like, you're like, the namesake thing would bother me more than the money. I think about that. I thought about that.

[B]

No, that's why Ryan Rosello left like the Scott Van Pelt show because they wouldn't put his name on it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was like the co host. He's like, I'm leaving on people. It's like the SVP show.

[C]

This is the Indian Ari show for a reason now.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Did Andy try to keep it? Andy. And you were like, I'm not coming unless you put Ari on it.

[C]

No, but we discussed what the show would be called before I took the job.

[B]

Was it always going to be a two name show or did you just discuss other names?

[C]

We discussed other names, but we knew that it wouldn't because like you my. The first three years I was on his show, it was called the Andy Staples show and I was the guy behind. I was in the Dave Matthews Band.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, this show. I'm sorry.

[C]

Time.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I was the horn guy for a while. Well, no, I was being treated like the horn guy, but I was doing the guitar.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. That's the worst. Oh, man. I really think you should leave Andy and come join us. I don't. We would appreciate your horn.

[C]

I'll be the little Ari you can replace and. And just put Ari there. I don't even need to have the same. Just get. Put my name on. No, we figured it out and he was a good sport about it. He said, yeah, no, absolutely, if you come, we're gonna do it it. So I give. He was Dave Matthews and he was able to recognize that there was some. Something else to it than just him, you know?

[B]

Can you imagine if the Dave Matthews Band just became like the Dave Matthews and Steve Band, you know, like that's what happened here. Very magnanimous by Andy Staples. All right.

[A]

Ah.

[B]

And Ari got no cut of this show, so. Yeah. And I don't need hours of his time. Two hours of his time. Ari Wasserman, thank you so much for joining us here. It's always a pleasure. Where can the folks find you if they just think to themselves, my God, I want more of this?

[C]

They won't. But if they do, just search the On3 channel on YouTube and we come up on there at Ari Wasserman on Twitter where you will find all of the links to our stuff. And then on three.com is where my columns appear.

[B]

All right, and what's. What's the next. The next game? Are you going to a game this weekend or his next game in Columbus?

[C]

Okay, no next games. Columbus, Ohio. Know, big Penn State bash and I can't wait to do it. Unfortunately, we booked this a long time ago and I'm missing Halloween with my daughter and this is the first time that I'm missing something in her life and I'm having a hard time with it.

[D]

Yeah, because the game.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That stinks. That stinks. Yeah. But then you'll make up for it. You'll make up for it. You'll go in and redo her class and stuff and it'll be okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

So Ari Wasserman, great friend, great college football media member. Go check them out at on three. Thanks for joining us. We will catch you guys for our national pick show on Friday. And of course, if you want more high state coverage, you can find us at billanddugosu.substack.com for now. Thanks to Ari. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice. And that was what did we talk about? What we did?

[C]

Like a who could win the national title. I thought you were gonna make a funny joke there and say this was the Bill show or something. Or the Doug show.

[B]

Yeah, no, I just was going to be like what did we talk about? That was a national title discussion on the Bill and Doug show.

[E]

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