← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State loses to Miami 24-14, Buckeyes end season with Cotton Bowl playoff loss
01:28:34
Ohio State lost to Miami 24-14 on Wednesday night, and Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are live in Arlington, Texas to break down the end of the Buckeyes' season and what comes next.
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- [00:02]
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- [02:02]
Bill Landis
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lam Reese and Bill Landis from the Cotton Bowl Ohio State season is over with the 2014 loss 2414 loss to the Miami Hurricanes. Bill Landis, how surprised are you that this is how the 2025 Ohio State football season ended?
- [02:22]
Doug Lam Reese
I don't know that I'm terribly surprised. I, you know, coming into the game, I think I was, you know, somewhat confident that Ohio State would be able to work around what looked like a bit of a disadvantage at the line of scrimmage, especially Miami's defense up against Ohio State's offense. I don't know that I anticipated at times how much Miami's offensive line was able to kind of control things and didn't happen the whole game, but it happened in key moments. But the fact that it like kind of came down to Ohio State not being able to block them, I don't think is a shock.
- [02:51]
Bill Landis
Well, I'm, I think I'm shocked that I think Ryan Day kind of indicated post game that like they maybe anticipated to some degree that they weren't going to be able to block them. So I guess I'm not surprised that Ohio State couldn't block them. I'm a little surprised that it kind of destroyed the game, at least in the first half. That, okay, we don't think we're going to be able to block them. So then here's what we're going to do. We're going to roll the pocket with Julian, Sam, which we talked about, which felt like it didn't happen even once. I don't think we're gonna, we're gonna work the short game. We're gonna throw some screens to the running backs. We talked about Bo Jackson as a pass caster. Like that didn't happen.
- [03:30]
Doug Lam Reese
Not a ton of rpo. And then one very infamous rpo. And then, I don't know, you saw much after that, so. Yeah, yeah.
- [03:37]
Bill Landis
Yes. So if you guys, by the way, you're a producers tonight, just let us know in the chat if you're watching live on YouTube. Everything looks okay and sounds okay. We think we're good. But we're also at the mercy of the wireless here a little bit. So we appreciate you guys being here.
- [03:50]
Doug Lam Reese
Happy New Year. If you're on the east coast, Happy.
- [03:52]
Bill Landis
New Year to everybody. And again, maybe Ohio State shouldn't play on New Year's Eve. The thing that I, I think I'm most curious about these things may be related, but I'll give you the three options here. Everything sounds good. Thank you very much. Jay. What's closer to the truth here, Bill? Is it that Ohio State wasn't quite as good as we thought maybe during the course of the year. And that got proven against two good teams at the end. The two best teams they played at the end in Indiana and Miami. Is this more like not everybody wins all the time. Sometimes you lose to a good team or. And this would be related to it, is this like there's something rotten in Denmark and there's, there's a reset that needs to happen with Ohio State football because there's a couple losses that I want to talk about that I think there are pieces of other losses in Ohio State's past that this loss reminds you of. Reminds you of. But I also, like, I certainly don't think it's worth, like overreacting. This isn't a tear down the program moment, but they just weren't quite as good as we thought. You just lose sometimes or actually like, man, they got some Stuff they gotta fix.
- [05:05]
Doug Lam Reese
Well, I think, you know, it's a little. It's a little of column A, B and C, but I do think number one and number three sort of go together.
- [05:14]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [05:15]
Doug Lam Reese
Right. They're not. They're not as good as we thought they were because of some underlying offensive issues that need to be addressed with this team. And, yeah, there's. Yeah, of course, like, they played a good team and they lost. They put a good team against Indiana and they lost. I think you come off or come out of both games certainly seeing a potential or a way that Ohio State could have won each of each of these last two games that they didn't win. But I think it's primarily. You go through a season where the schedule probably ends up not being quite. Quite as much of a challenge as you thought it would be. Certainly winning in Texas is a nice win, and they had a couple nice road wins in the Big Ten. I'm not discrediting all of that, but they really weren't pushed. They really didn't play, like, excellent, excellent teams. And then when they did, like, some things got exposed. So it could be one of those things where, like, had those games happened earlier in the season, maybe there's time to adjust to those things that got exposed. But Ohio State didn't really have that benefit. So I think in the end, you have to say, yeah, they weren't quite as good as we thought they were.
- [06:11]
Bill Landis
One of the things that. That came up a little bit in the post game. I thought the post game with Ryan Day did not go. We did not get a lot of information. It's just a difficult setup. I was. I was disappointed in myself, like, we didn't get to push enough on some of the stuff. But Austin Ward did ask about the idea of Ryan Day sort of saying, during the course of the year, you know, we. We'll be able to put the pedal down when we need to. Right. And I think that. I think that that's an offensive discussion, and I think it means tempo, but it also means, like, attacking a little bit.
- [06:38]
Doug Lam Reese
I think it means more attacking, you know, being on the front foot.
- [06:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And the idea that Ohio State wants to play slow to keep snaps off their guys during the course of a season, it's a reasonable explanation, but that's not. Not the issue anymore here. And, you know, a lot of our people on substack and in comments and. And Ohio State fans that we interact with have brought up the idea that, like, when you are in a talented team and maybe you slow the game down a little bit, you open, you open up things to variants, right? And the fewer possessions there are, the more impactful a pick six is. Of course, if a pick six, how many possessions did Ohio State have offensively in this game?
- [07:19]
Doug Lam Reese
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
- [07:23]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [07:23]
Doug Lam Reese
Which is about what they have most games, right?
- [07:27]
Bill Landis
You know, if you have 14 possessions, that's just like four more chances to make up for things, right? To make up for mistakes. And so when you have Jeremiah Smith and Cornell Tate and you, you certainly have, you know, guys like Max Claire and Will Kazmark, you can throw too. And Bo Jackson has become an explosive running back at times. They kind of never got there. And, and, and Ryan Day, in his answer to Austin's question, like, did you know it was like, was it that you never had the pieces you needed to, to be able to do that, to be able to really attack and go and put the pedal down? And he said, no, it's not that. But he said, like, you kind of have to evaluate it. He said a lot of the ends of his answers to questions today were we have to evaluate that. The slow offense thing as a strategy to get through a season is one thing, but it, it felt like something like that then winds up hurting them in a game like this. Do you, do you think that's true or no?
- [08:23]
Doug Lam Reese
Well, I don't know. I think the.
- [08:27]
Bill Landis
If it was. If.
- [08:28]
Doug Lam Reese
I guess, like, if you got Ryan Day to admit that playing slow throughout the regular season was then an impediment to wanting to play faster in the postseason, then, then I think I can get there. They're not the only team that plays so slow. Miami play super slow. A lot of teams play slow now because of the way the clock rules are and the expanded season. So they're not, they're not like alone in that. But I think the thing that's been frustrating for, for Ohio State and it's usually it's kind of like using Ryan Day's words against him because, like, I've asked him in the past about tempo and games and he always says, like, you use it as a weapon. You're not static and doing any like, kind of one thing. Like sometimes you speed it up, sometimes you slow it down, sometimes, you know, huddle, sometimes you sugar huddle, sometimes you full on hud. You're just keeping teams off balance when you do that. And really what they've done the last few years is just sort of huddle and play slow outside of like two minute situations. So I think, you know, as. As you evaluate everything about this offense, and I don't think it's broken, but it doesn't be tweaked. I don't know that you start there, but that's pretty high up on the list. I think, like, you got to figure out what your plan is tempo wise. You got to figure out, like, what actually putting the pedal down means, I think. Yeah. Because it could mean tempo, could mean a lot of things. But, you know, it was. It was. I know people questioned it and like, you know, good for you for kind of, kind of first guessing that. I guess. I. I don't know that I was necessarily. Because it was an effective strategy last year, you could see the benefits of playing slow in the postseason. And I think when you see that last year, you just sort of assume like, okay, this is going to pay off for Ohio State again when it gets to the playoff this year. And. And it kind of didn't. And then when the offense kind of got stuck in spots toward the end of the season and you thought, well, maybe if they can turn it up a little bit and go a little faster, maybe that might shake something loose. They just didn't really seem capable doing it. So. So I think that in the long winded way of me saying, like, they probably need to be a little more varied with their tempo during the season.
- [10:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Okay. Offensive line conversation, you mentioned this and, you know, you can't say stuff to me off camera and not happen.
- [10:23]
Doug Lam Reese
I think it's a discussion worth having.
- [10:24]
Bill Landis
How often is in the Ryan Day era, has Ohio State had a really great offensive line? That's your question?
- [10:29]
Doug Lam Reese
I think once his first year in 2019. Yeah. Yep. I think there have been other years where it's been like, pretty good. I think 2020, pretty good. I think last year, what they did to navigate injuries, like, you know, passing grades, certainly, but there's been a lot of seasons where the offense doesn't feel quite right. And I think the place you would start is sort of like inefficient offensive line play. Like 2018, I think that was true. 2021, I think that was true. 2023, I think that was true, and it was true this year. This offensive line just never like, took that next step. Yeah. And then they. It ended up so that they played like the two best, most challenging defenses they were going to face all year in their last two games, and they got really overwhelmed and outmatched.
- [11:11]
Bill Landis
Yeah. You know, there was been, there's been recruiting questions on the offensive line. For a couple years at the end of the Justin Fry era, maybe that came home to roost to some degree. You wind up with a transfer right tackle and Philip Daniels, you wind up with a left tackle in Austin Sarebelt. He's not really a natural tackle and did a fine job this year. Rising to the occasion, playing out of position, that you try to go get somebody in the portal. As you know, Ethan Oniano is a starting offensive tackle from Rice and it just doesn't work out at all.
- [11:42]
Doug Lam Reese
Took a swing on your offensive line coach. Like, it wasn't. It wasn't. It was a bit of an unorthodox decision to hire a guy to coach your offensive line who hadn't done it in a decade. He played the position, but he hadn't done it in a while. I'm not like. And I don't think Tyler Bowen's job is in jeopardy. I don't think. You, you, you don't, you don't really scrap a guy after one year unless it's really dysfunctional or just glaringly obvious that it's the wrong fit. I don't think that's where we are with Tyler Bowen. But the jury's still out, I guess, on whether or not the decision to hire a guy who wasn't an offensive line coach to coach your offensive line well is a good idea. And, and the early returns, I guess, aren't tremendous.
- [12:18]
Bill Landis
So this is one of those. You know, Ryan Day and Matt Patricia were standing and talking outside the Ohio State locker room for a while after the post game interviews. And just watching them sort of, you know, I don't know what they were saying, but just like, that's a good.
- [12:31]
Doug Lam Reese
That'S a good point about tempo too, that saying he's more playing time, like play faster, you get more plays for.
- [12:36]
Bill Landis
Julian saying, oh, you get more experience and you get put in more situations. Ryan Day and Matt Patricia are hanging out and it's just like it looks like two equals standing there. Right. And. And so we were sort of talking about the idea that a lot. Ryan Day is like a, A coaching father figure to Brian Hartline. Right. And. And Chip Kelly is a coaching father figure to Ryan Day. So last year his offensive coordinator was. Was his football dad, and this year his offensive coordinator was like his football kid. But Matt Patricia is like a football brother to him. Right. And I was saying, look, like, I think, I think the fact that Ryan Day was a group of Patriots fan and Matt Patricia worked for the Patriots, like, probably helped start that relationship. I don't know, maybe I'm making stuff up, but it just looked like two guys who, on equal footing were talking ball.
- [13:24]
Doug Lam Reese
Right?
- [13:25]
Bill Landis
And you had talked about that, wrote very astutely that, you know, this maybe was a bit of an audition for Keenan Bailey. Could. Could that mean that a young guy who has never called plays, could that be the offensive coordinator move for them? It feels like the way Ryan Day talked after this game, like he just said, like, everything's up for evaluation. But as you think about this, here's getting to my point. You and I stood on the field at the. The Fiesta bowl in 2016 with Ari after that game, after the failures of. Of Ed Warner and Tim Beck as the, as the co. Offensive coordinators, and you just knew it wasn't happening. And they. And Urban Meyer hired Ryan Day and Ryan Day came from the outside, right? That's like Ryan Day knew Chip Kelly and that was kind of thing. But like, Ryan Day wasn't on the Urban Meyer tree. Ryan Day wasn't doing things that Meyer was doing. And Ryan Day came in because, like Urban said, we need to throw the ball and we're going to bring in a guy. They brought in a freshman outside voice, not that was super experienced and super old, but was a sharp guy from the outside. 2.
- [14:26]
Doug Lam Reese
Two voices, really, with Ian, Kevin Wilson.
- [14:29]
Bill Landis
Him and Kevin Wilson. Does Ryan Day need a Ryan Day? What Ryan Day was for Urban Meyer. Is that what Ryan Day needs right now as an offensive coordinator?
- [14:37]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I think so. I think, like, trying to think of the right way to say it. Like, I think there's like, there's. There's an offensive foundation that is like, sort of like Ryan Day's philosophy of how to do things that I think is still pretty strong and can and can sort of be the starting off point. And I think that was true even when Ryan Day, when Ryan Dankova Wilson came here for Urban Meyer, it wasn't like all of a sudden they were running an entirely different offense. They added things onto a number Meyer offense that had grown like a little sale.
- [15:06]
Bill Landis
But it's like in 2016, that offense was broken after.
- [15:09]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, yeah.
- [15:10]
Bill Landis
It's not a direct comparison.
- [15:11]
Doug Lam Reese
It's not a direct comparison because I don't think that it's quite. Well, it's not as extreme in this situation. But also like you have Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate and Julian saying, and I think you can maybe lump Bo Jackson early start to do that a little bit. And you scored 14 points, 13 points and 14 points against the three best defenses. You played like that's, that is, that is inexcusable, I think when you have that kind of offensive talent. So it's not broken. No, but it's not like we're one step away from fixing everything either. Right.
- [15:39]
Bill Landis
So I do think Ryan Day knows that and agrees with that.
- [15:44]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Yeah, I think he does. Yeah.
- [15:46]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [15:46]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I think he does. I, I, you weren't going to get that answered tonight, I don't think. But, and I know we kind of didn't, but, but I, I do think he, he understands that. I, I think maybe even like Chip Kelly coming last year and reshaping a little bit of what they did probably opened his eyes to, like, there's more than one way to do this. I don't need to be so stubborn to think that I'm, I am the only one who has the answers offensively. Core principles, yes. Expense. Expansion of ideas can, can help. And I think that's probably what they're going to be searching for now with this offensive coordinator hire. I don't think, I'm sure whatever, people are having fun with the, the story I wrote where I said, like, I just sort of like, posited, like, could Keenan Bailey be this team's offensive coordinator next year? And that wasn't me saying he should. It was just me thinking, like, picking up on some buys while we were here talking to people, like, if this goes well, I think maybe he could.
- [16:33]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [16:34]
Doug Lam Reese
And, and also, but he's also sort of like the, the stand in for the idea of, like, the Ryan Day offense being ro. No matter who's calling it, no matter who's part of it. And I think there were some holes poked in that tonight.
- [17:19]
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- [17:51]
Bill Landis
I think that's right. We have plenty of time to discuss this, but can I throw this at you? Keenan Bailey to receivers coach, Tyler Bowen to tight ends coach. Hire a new offensive line coach. Tyler Bowen keeps the run game coordinator title because I feel like that's part of what they liked about him. Right? Some run game ideas. It's not a demotion. It's a sideways move to lean into people's strengths. Get an offensive line coach who's all about ball, and then hire an offensive coordinator who's just a coordinator.
- [18:24]
Doug Lam Reese
I would love all those moves. Okay. Yeah.
- [18:26]
Bill Landis
So we have a whole off season to talk about that. This idea. I still am just a little thrown off. I mean, we talked a lot over. Over the three and a half weeks that these guys had off that Ryan Day getting the play sheet back in his hand was probably a good thing. Yeah. Right.
- [18:45]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [18:46]
Bill Landis
And did it feel that way? Because, again, you know, we know you're giving something up. It's. It's harder to have your hands on the whole team when you have your head in a play sheet. But. But I thought just trying to watch him through binoculars as stuff was going awry early on, I thought he kind of had his head in the play sheet.
- [19:01]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [19:01]
Bill Landis
You know?
- [19:02]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [19:02]
Bill Landis
And it was like, man, like, I think felt like when they were down 14, nothing they could have. They could. You're just watching as somebody walking up and down the bench, like, rallying the troops. And maybe I missed it, but I. I don't feel like I really saw that as a player, you know, player or a coach doing that kind of thing. Now, they did come back. They did find themselves at halftime, right?
- [19:19]
Doug Lam Reese
Well, they found. They found the rhythm offensively. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
- [19:23]
Bill Landis
They sort of use. I think they. They use this. The schematic things. They figured out, or with just figuring out, they used the football to find their edge. They didn't, like, rally the troops and get the edge and be like, yeah, we can still do this. And then that led the way. It's like the football had to lead the way. And I wonder if they could have just. But I think maybe I kind of thought that, like, hey, like, this is Ryan Day's thing. Like, he loves doing this. He's sort of forced back into it. But actually, it's a good thing for Ohio State. But then I think walking away from this game, like, it didn't necessarily feel that way.
- [19:55]
Doug Lam Reese
It didn't feel that way. I. I felt similarly. Similarly to you coming into the game. I think we're just wrong. And Ryan, like, you know, we talked about it. I asked Ryan Day about it when we did the press conference prior to going out here, and he said, like, can't have your head down. Gotta have your eyes up when you're not calling the plays. Gotta have your feel for the game. Gotta manage it. I don't know that I felt like he really had his finger on the pulse of things. I actually think like starting from the two minute drive at the end of the first half, like through basically the entire third quarter, he did have a pretty good play calling rhythm.
- [20:24]
Bill Landis
They did.
- [20:25]
Doug Lam Reese
But the, the, the game management thing did not seem to show up even late. Like, I don't know, I don't know that you get passing marks necessarily for how the clock was managed as Miami was trying to run the game out. I think maybe that could have been handled a little differently. But you're also like trying to anticipate a shot of the game winning drive too. So maybe, you know, not surprising I guess if the, if the result of this is just coming away thinking like, okay, it's hard to do both and maybe it's too much to do both.
- [20:51]
Bill Landis
So this is like, this is one of those things that's going to lead me back to the first point because Ohio State's drives, their first five drives are punt, punt, pick six, punt, punt, and then their next three drives, 12 plays, 67 yards at the end of the first half, that ends in a missed field goal. 11 plays, 82 yards, touchdown, 10 plays, 75 yards, touchdown. And then when they get the ball back, if they, they just have to do that one more time, they got the ball back with 10 minutes left. I said Ryan Day's dream Here is a 10 minute drive where they scored the game winning touchdown with 30 seconds left. And they had that opportunity. And given the way the offense had moved the ball previously and it felt like just much like they did at the Indiana game, they did sort of figure out the Indiana defense at the end of the game. They just stalled in the red zone.
- [21:39]
Doug Lam Reese
Correct.
- [21:39]
Bill Landis
And, and came away with zero points on two long drives. Here they cashed in their two long drives. Now they missed a field goal, we'll talk about that in a second. But two long touchdown drives where they did adjust, they completely changed their short yardage and red zone packages which coming into the game where at the top of the list of what's going on, they threw a fourth down, fourth and two touchdown pass to Jeremiah Smith. It was Jeremiah's first catch on a third and one third and two fourth and one, fourth and two play all year. They'd only. The first time they threw it to him in that situation was against Indiana and it didn't work on the rollout. Yeah. And like they, so like they, they kept Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith on the field. They did all that adjusting and so for all the Things that didn't go right tonight. When they got the ball back, I kind of thought that they were going to put together another drive and go. If not eat up the whole clock and win the game, at least take the lead and score touchdown. Did you think that?
- [22:33]
Doug Lam Reese
I did. I'm looking at. I'm trying to think, is this the right.
- [22:35]
Bill Landis
Ryan, they talked about that there was. I think there was a penalty and a sack. Right.
- [22:40]
Doug Lam Reese
So they. They. They took a sack on second and six and then got at the third and 15 and converted.
- [22:47]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [22:48]
Doug Lam Reese
And then.
- [22:48]
Bill Landis
So they're out on that Jeremiah Smith curl that you said is amazing. How many times they've converted third and long on that play.
- [22:54]
Doug Lam Reese
Like running deep, curl flat. Yeah. Which is also curl flat's like the only pass by the execute. But that's neither here nor there. If you want to talk about offensive refresh. First intended the 48 incomplete pass. They like, throw it down the sideline. Errant to Carnell Tate.
- [23:11]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [23:11]
Doug Lam Reese
Second and ten. Holding on Phil Daniels, which people.
- [23:15]
Bill Landis
Which was not like a classic hold. It was kind of got beat around the edge and pushed him in the back.
- [23:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. I don't know. Feels like something maybe, like, should be a penalty, but also isn't holding. Yeah, yeah.
- [23:26]
Bill Landis
Yeah. It's like a clip.
- [23:28]
Doug Lam Reese
Second and 10. He threw that one, like, kind of behind Carnell. That got Carnell walloped.
- [23:33]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [23:34]
Doug Lam Reese
Third and 20. Julian scrambles and as he's scrambling, decides the last second to. Let's throw it laterally to CJ Donaldson. And they lose. Yeah. So it wasn't a. Wasn't a sack, but it might as well have been.
- [23:48]
Bill Landis
Right? So. And then you wind up back. So you wind up back in a situation where you had been. You figured it out. You're moving the ball, and then Reuben Bain beats Philip Daniels, which is gonna happen sometimes, but because you're kind of like, in a spot now, you're kind of up against it a little bit, and then your defense doesn't get a stop at the end, which we'll talk about. But, Like, I. I think I would have guessed in that situation. Okay. Like, this is Ryan Days in his bag. They're. They found a rhythm.
- [24:20]
Doug Lam Reese
It did.
- [24:20]
Bill Landis
They figured out a little bit. They started blocking them better when they put Josh Padilla in the game for Gabe Van Sickle. And Ian Moore had to come in for Austin Saravel because he had a. And he was so. Ryan Day said he was so upset about coming out of the game that he was in tears. But you talked to Austin Saravel and he said he didn't want to come out, but he felt like it was liability.
- [24:38]
Doug Lam Reese
Those are his words. Exactly. One of the play. He said he rolled his ankle on the deep ball to Jeremiah Smith in the first half. He like, if, if you. I don't know if TV called it or not, but he was down behind the play. He said he got rolled up on. Rolled his ankle, continued playing throughout the rest of the half. Wanted to come back in in the second half. But yeah, I said he felt like a liability. And they also felt pretty confident in Ian Moore based on how he had practice coming into this game. So they went with him. I thought for a couple drives anyway. Played pretty good.
- [25:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So it feels like they're setting up because they got to midfield and they're, they're, they convert. That's like, it's like that third and 15 play to Jeremiah Smith is like, that's going to go down. That's going to be one for the history books.
- [25:14]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [25:14]
Bill Landis
And then you get beat by a first round draft pick defensive end and your, your drive unravels.
- [25:21]
Doug Lam Reese
It did.
- [25:22]
Bill Landis
And then you're kind of out of time.
- [25:23]
Doug Lam Reese
It really felt like I, I thought. I kind of thought they had it back in their control. I wasn't 100% convinced they were going to win, but. But it felt like they were going to at least maybe go and tie it up and was going to come down to something late. And part of the reason it felt that way is because Miami's defensive line did look gassed. I thought Bane and Mezador looked gassed. And Ohio State started running it well, too. And. And we're just not giving up the same pressure at the rate they were in the first half. And then like Reuben Bain summoned something within himself.
- [25:51]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [25:51]
Doug Lam Reese
For like one last I'm Ruben Bane kind of play. And that holding penalty that resulted from it kind of like ended the game for Ohio State.
- [25:59]
Bill Landis
So you did a much better job than me in the post game because you went to the locker room and interviewed people. And I just sat in a chair and tried to ask Ryan Day questions with my hand in the air. The idea of, like, didn't you kind of know that you were going to have trouble blocking him? He said we had a plan to get the ball out of our hands. Right. That we, like, that was, that was the plan coming in. We're gonna throw quick as we talked about. And he said, like, it didn't work. And so this is difficult. The guy finished. The guy finished fourth in the Heisman Balloting. But he's. Julian sand is a first year starting quarterback. I think you agree you, you use this term a lot. Ohio State does it to opposing quarterbacks. They, they speed them up. And Julian saying looked sped up tonight, right?
- [26:50]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I thought he understandably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was, was definitely sped up. And, and where the, where it really kills you actually is, is when the pressure's not actually there.
- [27:01]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [27:01]
Doug Lam Reese
And you, and then you, you just, you, you throw it away when you don't have to. You get jittery when you don't have to. And there was, there was a handful of plays where that happened. Like, you know, stretches for Julian saying was pretty good too. Just too many stretches where he was looking at the rush, dropping his eyes. I wasn't in there with him. But he said he should have scrambled more. Right. You know, is it the most fleet of foot guy. We probably could have kept a couple of drives perhaps on schedule if he tried to scramble more. So it definitely wasn't his best game. On the heels of a game where he started kind of slow against Indiana as well, like there's something, there's something good I think about the fact that he does try to. That he does like eventually like find the flow of the game and find the speed of the game and start. And start to play better.
- [27:38]
Bill Landis
Two great drives. Three great drives, but three great drives.
- [27:41]
Doug Lam Reese
But I think, you know, he's still a young quarterback and then he was definitely feeling it I think in the beginning of this game and not playing well. And it's interesting to hear Day say that they thought they had a good plan to get the ball out quickly because I don't felt like to me they were running deep a lot early in the game.
- [27:56]
Bill Landis
But he also said that they thought they had advantages down the field in the passing game and they wanted to take advantage of that.
- [28:01]
Doug Lam Reese
I think they had guys open they just couldn't block long enough for him to throw the ball there.
- [28:05]
Bill Landis
So he couldn't block long enough. But also it's been a little bit of thing that we've talked about. I think Julian sand realizes it and I think it's something he, I mean he, he told us that he thinks he'll get better at next year is like taking those shots down the field when like maybe it's not a hundred percent sure that it's open, but it's worth the risk.
- [28:20]
Doug Lam Reese
He had one. Yeah, there was. I think they might have ended up scoring on the drive. I think they did. So I guess it's a moot point, but there was a play where they ran play action, and Jeremiah was, like, splitting the safeties, and it would have been in a pretty aggressive throw. And I think instead, Julian threw a check down to Max Claire, and I believe they still got a first down, and the drive kept going and they scored. So it doesn't matter. But, like, I think that's the next step is like, yes, I don't know. That's not a 100% go green light, but it's probably enough to throw it.
- [28:49]
Bill Landis
And it's a very difficult thing because I don't think you can just analyze teams for what they are. Right. You can't just look at a team and say, well, they did this today, and that means they'll do that tomorrow. Because over the course of a season, teams get better, young players get better, coaches figure out what your team is good at. And so I think there were a couple of things with Ohio State where we. We maybe anticipated a little bit of a trajectory. Whether that was when it's time to attack, when it's maybe time to go a little faster, they'll do it. Whether it was what Julian Sands kind of easing into this. Okay. If he's not taking those now, you'd rather set a million times, you'd rather make an. An error of. Of omission than commission. If the worst thing you're doing is. Is like, not taking a guy who might be open. Okay. But then at some point, like it in an equal 10, you know, whatever. There's some really good players on Miami's team. You've probably got to take those shots, right? Against. Against, you know, some of the mediocre Big Ten teams. If you don't take it, so what, you're still gonna score eventually. Like, the offensive line that, like, everybody knows, whether you're on here on YouTube and appreciate you guys being here live with us or if you're watching back or listen on a podcast feed. We talked about the offensive line all year, and is it good enough? And it's right guard, but it's not only right guard. Right. And that there's just, like, they're decent at times, but there's some inconsistencies. And then you thought they got it together in the Michigan game and they played their best game. And then when they played Indiana and Miami, like, they couldn't block them. They gave the 10 sacks combined in these two games, right? Against good schemes and good players, but they couldn't block them. And if you thought, like. Well, I think. I think this offensive line is going to grow into it. Like, I think we anticipated some things with Ohio State that in the end didn't happen. And if they had, they'd still be alive.
- [30:32]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Offensive lines are supposed to get better over the course.
- [30:35]
Bill Landis
Like, is that wrong at a place like Ohio State to anticipate that? No, but it feels like they kind of. They were in the end. They're a very good team. But I think there were some key areas offensively where they did not make that step from good to great. That as you were watching them over the course of the year, regardless of what their schedule was. Right. Regardless, you know, that it was reasonable to anticipate they were going to get there. They didn't get there.
- [30:59]
Doug Lam Reese
They did not get there. Tried to ask Tyler Bowen, who I talked to in the locker room, like, a little bit of bigger picture, like, where do you think this is going? Kind of stuff. And he didn't really want to get into the future so much after the game, you know, whatever. It's earth. Like, he did alone, like, that they did not play well enough in either of these two games. He kind of echoed Day. He said they thought they had a good plan. I said, like, did you underestimate your matchups? And he said, no, I don't think we did.
- [31:25]
Bill Landis
So. So that's confirming. We kind of thought we couldn't block them and we had a plan for it.
- [31:29]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. But it wasn't like, I don't think they came in thinking, like, we got this. We can block these dudes. I like, at least he. At least that's not, like, the impression that he gave me. Okay. But I think that's reassuring. Whatever they devise to combat that mismatch and that difficulty clearly didn't work. Yeah.
- [31:51]
Bill Landis
So. So the other hard thing about this, it's. It's very difficult, but I think it's correct. Is Ohio State's best player, arguably the best player in college football, a guy who caught a 59 yard pass and felt like, okay, here, here it is for Ohio State, the pick six, which is. And to your credit, and I think the people who watch and listen to us and follow us on Substack, we're giving you kudos for acknowledging what a great player Keonte's got, number zero for Miami is. He had to pick six. He made some other tackles that I think a lot of guys wouldn't make. You compared him to, like, a Caleb Downs type of player, like, with, I think, his anticipation, his aggression, his knowledge. Right. Like, that's what you're talking about with a guy like Caleb Downs that is physically talented but understands the game in a way that allows him to use his natural gifts to really make impact. And that pick six changed the game. And. And it's not like Jeremiah Smith just stood there and didn't block him, but that's. Jeremiah Smith is supposed to block him there. And Keonte Scott kind of juked him.
- [32:55]
Doug Lam Reese
And just ran right by him and.
- [32:56]
Bill Landis
Ran right by him. And that pick is. Stuff happens, but it's probably on. It's on Jeremiah Smith more than anybody. And it flipped the game.
- [33:06]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I mean.
- [33:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [33:07]
Doug Lam Reese
I mean, we give the guy a ton of praise when he plays well because he plays well a lot. When he makes a mistake, you're not going to ignore it. He made a mistake on that play. Now, he made about a couple other huge plays in this game. His touch, his touchdown catch was incredible, but huge moment. But I think. But I also think it's like you can kind of go back to the offensive staff and the plan, too. It's like, okay, you're running an RPO bubble screen. We're throwing it to the guy who's our blocker, and we're asking our stud receiver to block for him. It's like, is that the right people in the right spots? I. I don't know.
- [33:40]
Bill Landis
I would.
- [33:40]
Doug Lam Reese
I would.
- [33:40]
Bill Landis
Because they're throwing a Brandon in us.
- [33:42]
Doug Lam Reese
They're throwing the Brandon in us and asking Jeremiah Smith to block for Brandon Innis. And maybe if he asked Brandon to block for Jeremiah Smith, the exact same thing happens. I'm not saying it wouldn't have, but it was just an interesting decision. I thought that'd be like, ask JJ to be the one to block there and be having this be the one that you throw the ball to. There's like an Okie Doke thing. It's like zigging. Zigging when they expect you to zag. I understand that, but pretty big moment. And for as much as Ryan Day has talked this year about making sure they're putting the right guys in the right spots, I don't know that that felt like they were doing that on that play. Yeah.
- [34:12]
Bill Landis
And. And it's. It felt like a one, two punch from Miami of. That's at the moment where Ruben Bane and Akeem as a door getting after the quarterback so much, it's like they're. They're implementing that. Like, that's exactly what they're talking about. Well, we got to get the ball out of the quarterback's hands. That's exactly. You talked about throwing those, those type of bubble screens to those receivers and but it's like I think the play before they had gotten pressure on Julian saying and so you, I think you could feel 78 of the plays happen. But it felt like. Well, because Bane and Mazador were doing this, that forced Ohio State to do this. And then Keonte Scott anticipated that they were going to do that and it was Bane and Mezador setting up Scott for an opportunity like that. And the thing I think that again is difficult here is, and we're going to start talking about the Ohio State defense is there are tremendous future NFL players.
- [35:05]
Doug Lam Reese
That number can't be right all over the defense. That's simply just not true.
- [35:09]
Bill Landis
Who is that?
- [35:09]
Doug Lam Reese
Pff. Has Julian Sainz pressure rate is 37 and a half.
- [35:13]
Bill Landis
Oh yeah. I mean unless that they hit the wrong button.
- [35:21]
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- [36:48]
Bill Landis
So Akeem Mazador, Reuben Bain and Keonte Scott are Miami's three best defensive players and they impacted the game in a tremendous way. And, and and this is not like calling out anybody, but it's just like the way the game unfolds, the way Miami's offense works, the way Ohio State chooses to defend. It didn't feel like Caleb Downs and Arvell Reese and Sonny Styles impacted the game in the same way.
- [37:19]
Doug Lam Reese
I thought Caleb Downs might Have. I mean, Caleb Downs forced two fumbles, right? Or. No, he forced one fumble, had another play where he hit or Malachi Tony pretty good.
- [37:29]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [37:31]
Doug Lam Reese
I thought you felt Caleb out there.
- [37:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah, maybe had a really good. A really good blitz on one flight.
- [37:40]
Doug Lam Reese
But he also missed the tackle, I think his first tackle of the season on the long touchdown drive in the first quarter.
- [37:47]
Bill Landis
Did you think that Ohio State was aggressive enough defensively? You talked to Matt Patricia in the locker room after the game.
- [37:55]
Doug Lam Reese
I think. I think they're. I think their pressure packages just didn't work. Yeah, I think they, like, they changed some stuff up. There was. There were some passing downs where they were lining up Kenyatta Jackson and Kaden Curry inside with the tackles outside of them. And then RFL Reese on the edge, like to get guys one on ones to create some mismatches and, like, they just didn't get home. There's one player, excuse me, our roots, got blocked by a running back.
- [38:18]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [38:20]
Doug Lam Reese
So, yeah, it just wasn't effective. I think. I think they did have a plan to ratchet up the pressure a little bit. Just didn't work.
- [38:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I thought, you know, I thought Kaden Curry got close on one. I thought Arbel Reese got close on one. There was one early. We talked about Markel Bell, the giant left tackle that was like, you know, a guy like Arvel Reese who can put some moves on him. I thought that he worked Bell on one play and got close, and I thought, like, he's gonna get him. They have the point, like, they kind.
- [38:40]
Doug Lam Reese
Of never did again. The PFF numbers would be a little wonky at the moment, but they have. Ohio State's blitz rate is 63%, which is like triple what it normally is.
- [38:50]
Bill Landis
So. So let's talk about this. And this is not, you know, this is not a situation. This is not. The Ohio State defense lost the game, but this is the team that had given up 8.2 points per game, coming in the fewest since Alabama in 2011. They did give up an early drive. Carson Beck, who I. Who I said was like a pretty ineffective scrambler, was an effective scrambler tonight. I don't know if there are scrambled numbers for Carson Beck, but he had one on the final drive for. You know, he scrambled a couple times. I thought when Carson Beck scrambled, he would scramble for three yards and get tackled.
- [39:23]
Doug Lam Reese
Yep.
- [39:24]
Bill Landis
But he scrambled for eight yards. He scrambled for 10 yards in the first down.
- [39:27]
Doug Lam Reese
At one point, they have over 28 scramble yards.
- [39:29]
Bill Landis
28 scramble yards. So. And really hurt them at times. It Was one of those where they have spied quarterbacks most of the year and they didn't spy Carson back because you didn't need to spy Carson back. And then the lack of the spy actually opened things up for Carson Beck a few times.
- [39:43]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [39:43]
Bill Landis
But it was never dangerous. We said this was not a dangerous Miami offense. They didn't do anything dangerous. You have the stats their longest. They had one completion over how many yards? 15 yards.
- [39:53]
Doug Lam Reese
One completion over 15 yards. Yeah.
- [39:54]
Bill Landis
And it was like a check down to Mark Fletcher that he took off.
- [39:56]
Doug Lam Reese
And ran on the first drive.
- [39:58]
Bill Landis
On the first drive. Like they didn't do anything down the field.
- [40:00]
Doug Lam Reese
No.
- [40:00]
Bill Landis
And we knew they were going to throw in the middle of the field to Malachi Tony and ask him to run. And we thought they would, they would get some hits on him. And as you pointed out, Caleb Downs did that a couple times.
- [40:09]
Doug Lam Reese
Malachi Tony touched the ball one six times for 20 yards.
- [40:14]
Bill Landis
This. This guy's their whole offense.
- [40:16]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [40:16]
Bill Landis
So they shut him down. Carson beck finished what, 19 of 26 for 138 yards. Their offense there was this. This is the thing that I think is for Ohio State fans would be frustrating about this result. Okay. We know it's going to be hard to block their guys. Okay. It was. We know that Carson Beck's going to get the ball out of his hands. He's going to throw a bunch of short stuff. They're not going to threaten anything at all down the field. That's exactly what happened. It like the way that the pick six changed the game. But like almost everything else that happened was like. Yeah, of course, of course that's what happened. That's what you knew was going to happen against Miami but yet you thought Ohio State would have answers for it and that again to put the. This is an excellent defense. But they had a chance at the end of the game. And I think it's worth now talking about the final drive. Is it three third down conversions on the final drive? Once. So they, they have the, the holding penalty on Philip Daniels. They have the ball to Cornell Tate that's like kind of a hospital ball a little behind him. And they don't convert that like that drive gets away from.
- [41:24]
Doug Lam Reese
It was two.
- [41:25]
Bill Landis
There's only two.
- [41:27]
Doug Lam Reese
That's what it says conversions.
- [41:28]
Bill Landis
Okay. Was one of Beck scramble and then.
- [41:33]
Doug Lam Reese
That was on the drive. How long was that final drive which you're talking about the drive that they.
- [41:41]
Bill Landis
Scored like Ohio State let him score the touchdown at the end. That after Ohio State hunted back and if Ohio if they like Ohio State's timeouts, if they get a stop, they're going to get the ball back with like four minutes left, 245 left, that kind of thing.
- [41:54]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. They only converted two third downs.
- [41:57]
Bill Landis
They converted two third downs.
- [41:58]
Doug Lam Reese
They converted third and four on a pass to C.J. daniels and third and three on a pass to Sharmar Brown.
- [42:08]
Bill Landis
Okay, so that. Wouldn't you have wanted Ohio State's defense in that spot, get a stop.
- [42:17]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [42:17]
Bill Landis
Get off the field.
- [42:18]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [42:18]
Bill Landis
And they didn't get. They didn't get it. No.
- [42:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [42:22]
Bill Landis
Against a non. Against a non. Dangerous. Mark Fletcher is a tough runner. Mark Fletcher's a good player. He's a good back. He ran tough. They opened some holes in the middle, right? Yeah. They popped some stuff inside.
- [42:32]
Doug Lam Reese
He ran really well. I think there's some stuff on those third downs where I talked about Patricia for like two and a half, three minutes in the locker room, and this did not come up.
- [42:40]
Bill Landis
But like.
- [42:40]
Doug Lam Reese
Like they were playing some soft coverage.
- [42:42]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [42:42]
Doug Lam Reese
Playing off and just like, kind of gave free access on some key third downs. A lot of Miami string drives, I. You see that happen for Ohio State quite a bit. I don't know why Ohio State is making it that easy on opposing offenses.
- [42:57]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean, I think so. They. They lost.
- [42:59]
Doug Lam Reese
Scramble was on the drive before.
- [43:01]
Bill Landis
It was on the drive before.
- [43:02]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [43:02]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [43:03]
Doug Lam Reese
It was third and 11, and Beck scrambled for 11 yards, which also would.
- [43:09]
Bill Landis
Have been a big spot to get. Yeah, that would have been the field there.
- [43:12]
Doug Lam Reese
They scored. Ohio State scored to make it 17. 14. Incomplete pass on first down, loss of one on a run on second down. It's third and 11 with Miami on its own 24 with 12 minutes and 36 seconds left in. Ohio State down by three. And Miami converts with a Beck scramble and is able to run another, like, two minutes off the clock right before punting.
- [43:36]
Bill Landis
So, yeah, you know, it felt like. Because I think there's just opportunities there. I thought, you know, you think of the Stetson Bennett drive in the. In the 2022 semifinal, right. When he comes on the field at the end of that game and drives Georgia down for a touchdown. I thought, like, there was an opportunity for this Ohio State offense to do that. You think about the times. I mean, what. What comes to mind is like some of the Jim Knowles defenses in those Michigan losses where they didn't get stops at the end. Right, sure. And. And this was another example of that. And it's, again, it's very difficult. It's a very talented defense that, that hits hard and does a lot of things well. But the season was on them against a non dangerous offense and they gave up, they gave up two third down conversions. They allowed third down conversions on three of the last four third downs for Miami in the fourth quarter and it, it allowed the Hurricanes to put it away.
- [44:24]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I mean, and I think you can, you know, I don't know how much you want to lump Indiana and Miami together, but like they needed to get a stop late against Indiana. They didn't get. It didn't result in points, but they needed to get the ball back to the offense and they couldn't do it. Like it's not. Doesn't undo all the good that this defense showed this year. Doesn't undo. I think the, the warranted excitement about Matt Patricia being the defensive coordinator and how much of a revelation that was for Ohio State this year. And certainly there's a lot of defensive talent for Ohio State, but everyone's got to kind of do their part when they're put in the spot to do it. And, and really like kind of nobody did that, defense included for Ohio State. Yeah.
- [45:00]
Bill Landis
So High State missed a field goal, which was no surprise. I don't know that it changes the game that much. I thought the fact that Ohio State put that drive together at the end of the first half was a bigger deal than the three points that. And I didn't think it was a huge difference in the moment of. Are you down 14? Nothing at the half. Are you down 14 to 3? You're down two scores either way. And I thought that like you had found something. And so then they came out on the first drive of the second half and scored a touchdown. I. If Julian Fielding makes that field goal.
- [45:31]
Doug Lam Reese
Jaden Fielding.
- [45:32]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Remember that, Remember that game one of the announcers called everybody on Ohio State's team. Julian. Yeah, yeah, I just did it. Do you think it changes the game? I mean, it's like we can talk about missed field goals. I wonder like, of course he missed it.
- [45:46]
Doug Lam Reese
I wonder if, if Miami feels any more pressure offensively if it gets the ball back there early in the, early in the fourth quarter when it's. It's 17. 17 instead of. You're still leading. Yeah. Right. Does Carson Beck press? Does he throw a pick? Did he get a little loose? Because it's, it's a tie game and you're not working with the cushion. Yeah, I think it's probably the only way I could see that changing the game. Yeah.
- [46:10]
Bill Landis
And so this is, this is one of Those, I mean, there's the player involved, but then there's the coaches of that player involved. They're just the decision makers who allow that player to be in that situation. I think it was, I don't want to call it a fatal mistake, but Ohio State had a kicker who missed two field goals in the 30s against Michigan last year. And they brought in a kicker from Ball State for competition, but wound up running that same kicker out there this season. And that kicker missed a kick against Indiana and missed a kick against Miami. And I think it was the wrong decision to stick with that kicker at the beginning of the year. And, and if, if they brought in the Ball State kicker as competition and then, okay, well, we just had a competition in practice and the guy that we had already kept winning the competition in practice, then I think maybe you didn't bring in a good enough kicker because I think that maybe you should have brought in a kicker like, this is the kicker, this is the new kicker. And so it's one of those, I mean, like, you know, Parker Fleming, who I roasted for two years as Ohio State special teams coach, just got hired as Kentucky specials teams coach. They don't have like a specific guy on the staff like that. But like, this is special teams failure and it's a special teams failures like, yes, the kid missed the kick, but, but he already missed kicks. And Ryan Day and everybody who put that roster together and all the special teams coaches allowed a situation to happen where they got to the end of the year again. And now he has missed kicks in the last two years in three gigantic games that they all lost. And if he had made those kicks and nobody makes every kick, but he missed two against Michigan last year, one against Indiana this year and one against Miami this year. And if he makes them, it changes Ohio State's fate. And the issue, I think is less the player and more that Ohio State saw what, saw an issue with the player and like didn't make a move. And you owe it to your roster to have the best possible person at every spot and you have to balance nil. And I understand all of that. I think that was a mistake. I think it was an off season mistake that I think they have to learn from. And if a guy's not doing his job and what you do, your job matters most in the most important situations. You've got to do something else. Though.
- [48:20]
Doug Lam Reese
They did, but you said they did bring in a guy.
- [48:23]
Bill Landis
But then, then make that guy the kicker. Why is that guy not the kicker?
- [48:26]
Doug Lam Reese
What Ryan Day always Says because Jaden Fielding outperforms him in practice.
- [48:29]
Bill Landis
Well, but then. Then I don't care about practice. Then, like, like. But like, the bottom line is, I mean, somebody is responsible for the fact that the kicker who missed two against Michigan missed two at the end of the season. And it's the same guy and it's the same deal. He's not a big time. I mean, he's. He. He.
- [48:45]
Doug Lam Reese
I guess what I'm saying. I guess what I'm. Well, I. What I'm saying is the answer to that could be they tried and they just got the wrong guy. Not dissimilar from Ethan Oniano.
- [48:56]
Bill Landis
Agreed. But then I. But we never saw Jackson game. Right.
- [49:00]
Doug Lam Reese
That's the difference. What?
- [49:01]
Bill Landis
Some guys are practice players, some guys are game players. What if guys don't get them in practice and you put them in game. He starts drilling 52 yarders, you know, like. Did you think that the kick was going to be made today? I knew it was going to be missed.
- [49:12]
Doug Lam Reese
No, no.
- [49:13]
Bill Landis
Every Ohio State fan watching, listening this, knew it was going to be missed. I think Ryan Day knew it was going to be missed. But you had to. You didn't have a choice there. The way that thing. Now you thought that they could have been more aggressive on the drive itself.
- [49:24]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I thought they. They, like, didn't really try to throw it in the end zone. Yeah, they got. Was it the play. It was like the one time where Julian's saying, like, a guy was on him and he shook him and then like, he reset his feet and then he just like, threw the ball. Threw the ball out of bounds. And on that play, there was still time probably to take two shots to the end zone, which I'm not saying is easy, but you got Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. Yeah, maybe. Maybe you get a PI.
- [49:53]
Bill Landis
Maybe.
- [49:54]
Doug Lam Reese
Maybe they actually make a crazy catch. They didn't throw in the end zone. They, like, they. I did not think they were playing for the field goal up until that particular play where it's like they got. I think they were like, just outside of the red zone maybe, and did not try to throw the ball into the end zone. They didn't have any timeouts left, so it's a little tricky. But I think they could have been more aggressive trying to score a touchdown.
- [50:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [50:18]
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- [51:45]
Bill Landis
I mean, you think about four gigantic Ohio State losses in the last four seasons and they all involve critical missed field goals. Georgia semifinal, Michigan last year, Indiana and Miami this year. So I mean it's not, you know, you put yourselves in those situations, but also then like stop putting yourself in those situations because you have to assume your kicker's not gonna make it. Ohio State kickers don't make those kicks. Like we've established that. So either change that ethos in that room, go find guys who are going to make kicks, or stop thinking they're going to make them. Like tape your kicker to the bench. It's like, well, it's 4th and 16. I guess we have to go for it. Yeah, but I mean it's, you can't, it's right, whatever that thing about insanity, like, oh, try it on a field goal. It's not going to go in.
- [52:27]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [52:28]
Bill Landis
So like here you are. And again, it's not, it's not just about the guy, it's about the situations and the people in charge who chose to put that person in that situation re peatedly. And I know, I guess they had a kicking cup. They, Ryan Day said, I guess that whatever they did in the last three.
- [52:45]
Doug Lam Reese
Weeks, they said they let Jackson Kerville kick and practice some.
- [53:00]
Bill Landis
With us. If we are, we apologize if the wireless is getting a little, getting a little loose there because they did it at right guard. Right. I mean, I don't know this. We've, we've had Happy New Year. We've had various like Ryan Day ruthless conversations over the course of the Year. And it's like, listen, you are a coach of young men, and they are not robots. And all those things do matter. But there's maybe just a couple things at right guard and kicker that maybe required a little more ruthlessness. Is that fair to say or no? Because you want to.
- [53:34]
Doug Lam Reese
Because the guy they put it right guard to start today got his butt whipped and they took him out of the game.
- [53:37]
Bill Landis
Yeah. But it took us because it took him 13 games to make a change at right guard when it was an issue all year. And if you would have done this in week seven, maybe that guy would have been more prepared by now.
- [53:46]
Doug Lam Reese
I think he might still gotten his butt whooped. Yeah. I don't know. I always thought. I've thought the entire time I've covered Ryan Day that the ruthless Ryan Day thing was a little, like, misguided and misplaced. I don't really know what it means. Oh, I leaned into that because sometimes he throws deep on fourth down. Yeah. I don't know. I. I just.
- [54:02]
Bill Landis
They.
- [54:04]
Doug Lam Reese
Their. Their evaluations were off in some key spots this year.
- [54:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [54:08]
Doug Lam Reese
Personnel wise. Yes. I think in this age of college football, you're probably a little more susceptible to that now.
- [54:15]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think that's true. There certainly are people, and this is one of those, like, well, Ohio State didn't last. We didn't win the national championship. Everybody stinks. Everything's on fire. Not true. Nick Saban got waxed in a national championship game by, By Clemson one year, and you just. In a playoff where you have to win four games, that's many more opportunities to lose along the way. And if this was the old era of the College Football Playoff, this. This game wouldn't have happened and Ohio State would have been playing Georgia in a semifinal. And so last year, the new. The structure saved Ohio State and allowed them to win a national championship. And this year, the structure made the path more difficult for Ohio State and they wound up not getting to the spot that they would have automatically been in a 14 playoff. It. There are certainly people in the chat saying, listen, they. They beat Michigan, which I do think was. Is. Was beating Michigan the number one thing that Ohio State had to do in the 2025 season?
- [55:15]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I think so.
- [55:16]
Bill Landis
I think that is still true. So that was a mission accomplished. And then what happened in Michigan, then I can't even remember. Oh, the program exploded. So like that. That is in a very different place. Right. And I do think Ohio State is in its most dangerous time when it is neither competing for national championships nor Beating Michigan, which was why the situation with Ryan Day after the Michigan loss last year was so dire. But they have won a national championship. They are still currently the reigning national champions and they beat Michigan this year. So I like, on a scale of 1 to 100, like how much of a of a fire is this right now that Ohio State came out and lost Miami?
- [56:02]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, low, like I don't know, like a 20 something.
- [56:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think that's probably right. And last year after the Michigan loss, what was it?
- [56:11]
Doug Lam Reese
A million out of 100?
- [56:12]
Bill Landis
Okay. Yeah, so. So I think that's important to say. That's fair to say. And I do think like somebody was noting. Listen, I. Not that they would be, but it's like Ryan Day was not kicking the wall that we saw. Maybe he was kicking the wall in the locker room after the game. I don't know. Yeah, but I said, someone said like, like they don't look like devastated. Right. And here's the point of this. Of course they're devastated, but I think if you don't know what happened, if you're like in, if you're like, what happened? What are we gonna do? Right. That I think that's been as we, as we've talked about many times. I thought the lowest point for Ryan day was the 2023 recruiting class when Caleb Downs went to Alabama instead of Ohio State and they had just lost to Michigan. And I think at that point time in that era of nil where Ohio State was, Ryan Day was particularly upset because he didn't know what they were going to do. He didn't know what the answers were. And do you think it is true and would it be your opinion from observing it that whatever is needs to be fixed right now is pretty fixable and the steps will be taken to fix it. So if the offense is a little stale and could use an injection and needs to make sure, maybe they do have to push it a little bit more and make sure they take advantage of their skill players. Do you think that's going to happen?
- [57:31]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I do think it's going to happen. I think. Who. I don't, I don't have a name for you for offensive coordinator, but Brian Dayball.
- [57:37]
Bill Landis
I have a name.
- [57:39]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. We'll see if the NFL wants to recycle him or not. But he, I think he'd be an interesting hire for sure. Somebody of that ilk. Right. And like the off, it doesn't have to have three super bowl rings, two super bowl rings, but the offensive version of Matt Patricia.
- [57:52]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [57:52]
Doug Lam Reese
That's what they're looking for.
- [57:53]
Bill Landis
So I think. And I think. And then offensive line is hard because it's like, well, some of the things. When they put. When they put Ian Moore and Josh Padilla in the game tonight, it was like things got fixed. Bill just pointed at Doug Peterson and said, go birds in his head. When they put it in More and Josh Padilla in the second half, Ian Moore in because Austin Saravel was hurt. Josh Padilla because it was a rough night for Gabe Van Sickle, things got a little better. And Josh Padilla and More both could be around next year. So, like, do you think that was.
- [58:25]
Doug Lam Reese
A little bit of what I. I talked with Austin Serbel, and he was. I said, like, just. I know it's hard to, like, talk about this in the aftermath of a loss. Like, just how do you feel about the room and, like, where it's going and bouncing back from this? He said, we got a lot of. We got good guys coming back next year. And he was like, kind of. I followed up with, are you coming back? And he said, I'm not sure what I'm gonna do yet. But he was sort of like, talking about, like, he's going to be one of those guys coming back next year. But then I was like, yeah, Padilla more, maybe. Carson Hinsman, Luke Montgomery is coming back. Phil Daniels is coming back. Like, I'm not saying all these guys played great this year. They certainly had their moments where they did not play great, including tonight. But I think there's also a reason to think, like, develop, maybe reshuffle the staff like you suggested, and bring in a different offensive line coach. Like, there's. There's definitely a path forward for this offensive line to get better.
- [59:07]
Bill Landis
Because you definitely. I mean, you could say Carson Hinsman goes pro. Do you think he's the most likely of the offensive lineman to not come back?
- [59:18]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [59:18]
Bill Landis
Okay, let's say Carson Hisman goes pro. You move Padilla to center, the D as your starting center next year, you move Austin Cerebell to right guard, and Ian Moore is your left tackle. Montgomery's still your left guard. Philip Daniels is your right tackle. If you want to bring somebody in, if you want to add one guy in the Portal as a. As a guy who can play guard, our tackle, and, like, if he wins a job, so be it. But I don't think you're in a desperation mode like they were this past off season when they felt like they had to go. Two starting tackles in the Portal and Ethan Oniano And Philip Daniels and they got one and the other one didn't work out. And Austin Sarah Bob stepped up. It feels. You would say it feels like that needs to get better. But a lot of the answers might be in the room.
- [60:02]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. I don't think unless Austin Serval goes to the NFL, I don't think they're going to add anybody in the Portal.
- [60:09]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [60:09]
Doug Lam Reese
At least not. Not a starter. Can you find a deaf piece? Maybe if they're going to have. Because I still think like even Sickle did not play well tonight.
- [60:17]
Bill Landis
They start.
- [60:17]
Doug Lam Reese
They're still going to think highly of him. So yes, let's say Serval comes back. Hensman doesn't. They probably have six there with Daniels, Daniel Saravel, Montgomery, Padilla Moore and then Van Sickle. Maybe you go try to find a seventh or something like that in the portal if you need to. But there's like they like Jake Cook, right. Like, I don't know. They like Justin Terry. So I really think like you more or less know what this offensive line room is going to look like next year.
- [60:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Do you think there's a big jump out there for Julian Saying?
- [60:50]
Doug Lam Reese
A big jump.
- [60:51]
Bill Landis
A big jump.
- [60:52]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think there's a. His starting point's incredible. Right. Like is his accuracy, the ball placement, the fact that he can make all the throws. I. I think his processing is really good for young guy. It's not perfect, but there's some playmaking stuff I think he needs to tap into. Scrambling play extension, all those kind of things. Continuing to develop a feel for the game. Continuing to feel. Figure out how to play when you are heated up a little bit. So yeah, I think. I think there's a pretty decent size jump you can make.
- [61:23]
Bill Landis
You cited Carson Beck's scramble numbers. Do you have Julian Sandstone scramble stats from tonight? Because it is he.
- [61:35]
Doug Lam Reese
Zero scramble yards.
- [61:37]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I mean he did it. You know, I think coming into the game. Carson Beckett scrambled 22 times this season. Julian Sanders scrambled 11 times. And. And I saying.
- [61:45]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Saying was just credited with the. With five carries and then we sacked five times.
- [61:49]
Bill Landis
Okay, so we're back to. To the. Does the Ohio State quarterback need to run more conversation which I like drove me crazy about C.J. stroud. But it's not.
- [61:58]
Doug Lam Reese
It's not. But it's. Yeah, it's not. It's scramble.
- [62:01]
Bill Landis
It's scratch. It takes some. Which. Which is like Carson Beck did just enough tonight. And again the. One of Ryan Day's favorite plays of the season was one Julian Sam scrambled and got A first down against Penn State or like, like got pressure. And so it's one of those situations where if you're a certain kind of quarterback, the issue is this, when you have a game like this where guys are in your face and you can't block them, your coach can have a plan, right. To get the ball to your hands, that kind of thing. But what's your quarterback's answer? Because there are some quarterbacks who practically invite pressure because then they're going to escape it and run. And there are some quarterbacks who process like a supercomputer and it's like, yeah, go ahead, bring it. And then I'm gonna hit exactly where you know what I mean? And I think Julian saying is probably more the latter. Like I'm going to deal with the pressure by, by solving the problem before it happens. I'm gonna identify where I think the pressure is going to come from. And I know this is going to happen and I'm going to anticipate it and make the right throw. That's probably what his answer is going to be. And I feel like CJ Stroud as a first time starter probably really got there by the end of the year. Like CJ had a little bit of a rough start, but like by the end of his first year as a starter, I think CJ was really kind of seeing it, I think in the end. And I think C.J. stroud is a fair comparison for Julian sand. Even though CJ's 3 pound, 3 inches taller. I think Julian maybe didn't get to the same point as year one CJ in terms of problem solving before it happens. But CJ got better in year two and I certainly think Julian Sam will get better in year two.
- [63:33]
Doug Lam Reese
I think you will too. Part of me does wonder if there's something a little incongruous about we want to throw the ball downfield, so we want to call place, take a long time to develop and invite pressure. But oh, by the way, we don't have a quarterback who can avoid pressure. It's like it makes being a shots kind of offense makes sense to me when you have like Justin Fields.
- [63:53]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [63:54]
Doug Lam Reese
Who can make you right when the pressure gets there. Still, Julian saying is like not really that kind of player and I don't think he'll ever get to that level. So I don't know. I think, I think, I think there's truth in what you're saying, but I also think maybe there's some conversation that needs to be had with whoever this new offensive coordinator is to like tailoring the offense to Julian a little more.
- [64:12]
Bill Landis
Too, I think, which, I think what it you talked about again, like Julian Sands at the top of every metric blitz. No blitz in the pocket, out of the pocket. But you talked about coming into the game how good he is throwing outside the pocket.
- [64:25]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Good on the move, I think.
- [64:26]
Bill Landis
Like, and they didn't get him outside the pocket.
- [64:28]
Doug Lam Reese
They didn't know there were. No. I'm really surprised. There weren't much because even the play action passes they ran were. They were not rolls or half rolls really. It was kind of like straight drop back play action. I thought they were going to get him out on the edge.
- [64:40]
Bill Landis
Don't you do that with little, like shorter quarterbacks a lot. You're gonna move the pocket.
- [64:45]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [64:45]
Bill Landis
Get him out, get better sight lines, change the angles a little bit. Like I, I'm, I'm sort of, I'm surprised they didn't get to that.
- [64:52]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [64:52]
Bill Landis
But then that. And that goes back to, in the end, a refresh of, I don't know, Ryan Day has all these buckets and they have the, the different slides and you slide this and we're going to do this. Maybe there's somebody coming and said you don't have enough outside the pocket stuff for your quarterback.
- [65:08]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, that's part of your throws.
- [65:10]
Bill Landis
So we're, here's my. Let me, let me show you my package of 15 movement throws that you need to add to your bucket that's not in there right now. And that's the kind of refresh like an injection, I think. Right. Not a redo, not a tear down, but adding tweaking outside eyes, outside voice.
- [65:28]
Doug Lam Reese
I think that and a more robust RPO package with a quarter with a quarterback who's not a runner is what they need.
- [65:36]
Bill Landis
Okay, so. So two things here. One is there's a lot of conversation during the course of this year about Ohio State 2025 being better than Ohio State 2024. Was that wrong?
- [65:49]
Doug Lam Reese
We can put that to bed, I think. Yeah. No, of course. Yeah. It's not. You get excited. They're on a run. They're maybe going to repeat. They might even repeat as they're undefeated. Turns out the answer to that question is no. But also we needed to see them play teams of the caliber of Indiana and Miami before we could confirm that. And now we have.
- [66:06]
Bill Landis
Where is that the most? No, because, because one of the things.
- [66:08]
Doug Lam Reese
Like Ryan, running back.
- [66:09]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [66:10]
Doug Lam Reese
Run game, run game. Bruisers.
- [66:15]
Bill Landis
We can lean on this.
- [66:16]
Doug Lam Reese
I think, I think like there's Been a lot of Chip Kelly conversation right as Ohio State has been in the market for a new offensive coordinator and Chip Kelly's going to Northwestern so he's not coming to Ohio State. And I've always kind of pushed back on that because I think they need somebody who's a little more passing oriented to like come in and be the new guy. And that's, and that's not Chip. But Chip is organized, Chip is creative. Chip is game plan specific. And like I don't know that I would say any of those three things about Ohio State's offense this year. So I think that's where they're lacking a little bit too.
- [66:43]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [66:48]
Modelo Announcer
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly. Macaroni and cheese. Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget, forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [67:42]
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- [68:14]
Bill Landis
OFFENSE because like Ryan Day was talking about like yeah you know had these offensive line injuries tonight. This one of the questions he was asked post game and he said we had a, we had injuries last year with Seth McLaughlin and Josh Simmons which would be you would look and say are even more devastating than Tegra Shabola and Austin Seraveld and they, they found a way last year to figure that out. And I do, I do think, I think it like Justin Fry in the.
- [68:36]
Doug Lam Reese
End was they're better situationally last year.
- [68:37]
Bill Landis
Too Justin Fry in the end was not it was not a great recruiter at offensive line but he was a pretty good I think once you had the room and you had to solve it and piece things together and like create a cohesive five out of the spare parts that you had and get those guys to play their best. He did a great job with that last year. Right.
- [68:57]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. I think Fry is like a solid coach and a bad recruiter, which is.
- [69:02]
Bill Landis
Why he's in the NFL.
- [69:03]
Doug Lam Reese
And Tyler Bowen might be a solid recruiter and iffy coach at the moment.
- [69:10]
Bill Landis
On offensive line, which is. Yeah. Which is interesting to think about. Does this give any new appreciation for what Ohio State did last year?
- [69:22]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [69:22]
Bill Landis
Someone was saying we were just like people, you know, gallows humor. It's like people are like, what's the. What's the hottest take you could have off this Ohio State loss? And I was like, I don't know, like, 2024 was a fluke, you know, But I. But actually, I think. What I actually think is it's a reminder because. And it's interesting. And so I will say this. I do think Ohio State was burdened by the Nadia bus talk for much of last year. I don't think they handled that well. I know for a fact that it was. There were. There were things that were an issue as they were trying to, like, not put an undue burden on themselves. But then in the end, like, it all came back around and we talked a lot about Will Howard elevating in the playoffs. That team elevated in the playoffs.
- [70:08]
Doug Lam Reese
Absolutely.
- [70:10]
Bill Landis
Ryan Day this week was talking about these guys 10 months ago. They decided they wanted to, like, make history. Right. They did. They did not. I don't think they planted a flag as much about back to back. We're going to do this for the. But they weren't afraid of it.
- [70:26]
Doug Lam Reese
They. They spoke of it.
- [70:28]
Bill Landis
They certainly spoke of it. And I don't, like. I certainly don't think, like, well, you shouldn't have never said that. You were taking things for granted. And like, look what happened. Why did you talk about that? It's not what I'm saying at all, but it is a little interesting, like, to. To now look and think that they were, like, kind of willing to do that. And here we are sort of talking about, like, oh, yeah, maybe they weren't as good as we thought. And they kind of had some of these things that they didn't improve on as much during the course of the season as we thought they would.
- [70:59]
Doug Lam Reese
I don't. But are you surprised we've arrived at that conclusion that they're not as good.
- [71:05]
Bill Landis
As we thought they were? I am surprised, yes. Because this is what I thought this team was. I thought this team was a pretty devastating defense. I thought this was like a defense that had stars all over the, like in a lot of spots, primarily Caleb Downs and Arvel Reese, but you throw Kaden McDonald and Kaden Curry and Sonny Stiles and Davis signal in there and there are real dudes all over the field. And Matt Patricia had them playing in a way that I thought was going to be very difficult for teams to deal with. And I thought that they were going to, when it got to crunch time, be like a lockdown defense. And I was expecting if they were more disruptive kind of in the first half of the year, they dialed it back in the second half of the year. I thought that was going to come back around when it was needed and they were going to unleash some things. And then I thought offensively they lived through these receiver injuries and then these receivers were back 100% healthy. We talked a lot about Will Howard elevated. If Julian sand elevates a little bit, you're going to have this defense. First team that also has, I think, the two best receivers in the playoff and a quarterback who can take advantage of that. And you have a play calling head coach who has the play sheet in his hand again. And I thought it was ready to coalesce and I thought they were ready to repeat. So I am surprised.
- [72:25]
Doug Lam Reese
I'm not probably.
- [72:26]
Bill Landis
I'm surprised.
- [72:27]
Doug Lam Reese
I probably felt that way pre Indiana.
- [72:29]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [72:31]
Doug Lam Reese
And a little less so after that game because, like they were going to have to play. Not three more Indianas. Was like something pretty close to that. And it's like, I don't know. That was a pretty evenly matched game. Like, I don't, I don't.
- [72:44]
Bill Landis
But I thought it was evenly matched. I thought it was a chaotic week for Ohio State and I thought they had two good drives at the end of the game where they figured it out and they screwed it up in the red zone. And I thought, like, there are things they'll fix here. And. And one of the craziest things is they fixed the red zone. They fixed it. They figured it took them. It took them 14 games. They know what to do in the short. In short yardage in red zone now. They keep Clarnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith on the field. They spread you out and then they either throw those guys or they run it while they have you spread out. They solved it. That's not what they lost tonight. It was the other things I thought the things that were the biggest Achilles heels that you're like, man, that could bite them. They fixed. And then it was offensive line Julian.
- [73:24]
Doug Lam Reese
Saying I don't think they fixed the biggest one, which is, which is O line. I think the O line was, was like, was higher on the list and all those things.
- [73:30]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [73:31]
Doug Lam Reese
Handling that pressure. Yeah, this was higher than anything situationally, and they didn't get that figured out.
- [73:37]
Bill Landis
But I guess I, I am surprised that given three and a half weeks, they didn't just say, we ignore. We accept this, we know it's going to happen, and here's what we're going to do to combat it. We're not going to block them. We're going to do this instead. And they said they had a plan for it and it didn't work. But I, I, I'm still not sure. Looking at it, it's like, oh, we want to get the ball, the quarterback's hands. And it's like, I don't know again, like, it didn't, There wasn't the RPO stuff. There wasn't this, the, the, the screen game to the running backs. There wasn't as much of that. There wasn't moving the pocket and letting him get out and hit the tight end for 9 yards on a rollout, like, kind of stuff that I, I just thought would be part of that. And it wasn't. No, it wasn't. What they, what happened?
- [74:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, they're playing kind of stunk. Yeah. And it is, it is, it is kind of, it's really, I guess the, Is it the first time of the Ryan Day tenure anyway? Like, going into a playoff game with an extended layoff that, like, they, they didn't like, kind of come out rocking and rolling on offense.
- [74:37]
Bill Landis
Right. Which is why I'm sitting here.
- [74:38]
Doug Lam Reese
Surprised. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm surprised. I guess I'm surprised by that, but I also feel like a little foolish for assuming that, like, everything's fine. Yeah. Heartlines doing two jobs and they take play calling away. And of course, Ryan Day can manage the, the game management piece and then picking up, calling plays again. And it's just like there was probably some part of that analysis that was pretty off base.
- [75:00]
Bill Landis
Do you think we underestimated Miami?
- [75:03]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think I did. I, I don't know if I didn't watch the right stuff, like, because I wasn't watching Ohio or Miami week after week. They, they were more of a force on the line of scrimmage than they.
- [75:19]
Bill Landis
Were maybe underestimated their offensive line in the run game did get some stuff done.
- [75:24]
Doug Lam Reese
They're moving them a little bit.
- [75:25]
Bill Landis
Yeah. They can't throw it. Yeah. I didn't think they could throw. They can't throw it. He threw for 138 yards, Bill.
- [75:32]
Doug Lam Reese
That's not about. No. Do I think Carson Beck. Do I underestimate Carson Beck? No. You asked me if I underestimated Miami.
- [75:39]
Bill Landis
I'm planting my flag.
- [75:40]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [75:40]
Bill Landis
Carson Beck.
- [75:41]
Doug Lam Reese
Carson Beck's gonna 136 his way to a national title. And you're gonna have to. I don't know.
- [75:48]
Bill Landis
Was the Miami. Was the Miami defensive line better than you realized?
- [75:53]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, I thought they were pretty good, but they. They were.
- [75:56]
Bill Landis
The. The physical.
- [75:57]
Doug Lam Reese
I thought it was gonna be a mismatch for Ohio State that they were gonna have to account for in. The mismatch was even greater than I anticipated.
- [76:01]
Bill Landis
And they did seem to. We thought that they played it pretty straight up front most of the year, and they didn't play it as straight.
- [76:08]
Doug Lam Reese
And I thought they mixed it up a little bit more in this game. I even thought, like, in. In the times when I was watching Miami where they were mixing it up, like it didn't. I think I wrote, like it didn't. It didn't seem to hit quite as fast as, like, that stuff hit with Indiana. And then today, tonight, it did seem like it was hitting pretty fast. Like, they were. They had a good plan. They. Defensive coordinator. They have good players, but, yeah, they. They did not just sort of like, roll their guys out and say, we're better than you. Although, by and large, they kind of were. They also had some scheme stuff that I thought was difficult for a high state to account for.
- [76:38]
Bill Landis
Ryan Day said they did have to go to a silent count in this game. And like, he said, he anticipated that because it gets, like, echoey in here.
- [76:43]
Doug Lam Reese
They opened with a silent count, and they did.
- [76:45]
Bill Landis
And he said the first third down where Gabe Van Sickle got smoked right off the bat was he thought. And he sort of said, like, he. She doesn't usually say. He said, like, Gabe Van Sickle by name. Said, like, Gabe struggled, but he thought he was, I think, slow off the snap because of the silent count. And Van Sickle got beat by one of Bane and Mezador, and the other one sort of like, looped inside.
- [77:10]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [77:11]
Bill Landis
And. And won that way. And they met at the quarterback.
- [77:14]
Doug Lam Reese
Did Miami go silent count?
- [77:18]
Bill Landis
I don't know.
- [77:19]
Doug Lam Reese
But, like, I do think, having played.
- [77:21]
Bill Landis
Here the last two years, I think Day was. Because I. I thought, you know, I.
- [77:24]
Doug Lam Reese
Was out here against Texas last year. Of course it was loud, so.
- [77:27]
Bill Landis
But, like, he was sort of anticipating that. I thought the crowd was about 62:38, I thought, for Ohio State, but. But, like, then the juice happened, and then, like, the Miami crowd was really loud.
- [77:35]
Doug Lam Reese
Miami crowd that was here was loud. It was a good crowd. I don't know. Miami was clapped the whole game. Yeah, I thought they were, too. I don't, like, I don't. The silent count thing felt like a mistake. I don't, I don't. I don't really know why. Like, the whole thing was like, the. Well, they got to play A M. And Dallas, I guess they're gonna have to go silent count, and then they're not playing A M. I was like, well, that should be good for the offense. They don't have to do that now. And then you go silent count. And as soon as the left guard goes like that to the center to snap the ball, guess who's pinning their ears back. Miami's awesome defensive line, but he made.
- [78:03]
Bill Landis
It sound like, almost like if, if you play anybody in this stadium and they have.
- [78:10]
Doug Lam Reese
Miami just played Ohio State in the stadium, but they don't have to go silent, and Ohio State had more fans than they did.
- [78:14]
Bill Landis
So Miami did or did not go silent.
- [78:16]
Doug Lam Reese
Did not. They were one of the clap.
- [78:18]
Bill Landis
Okay, well, that, like, he thought they had to and that they were not good at it.
- [78:23]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, they're never really good when they have to go silent count. And I think they.
- [78:30]
Bill Landis
He said it's echoey. Okay.
- [78:34]
Doug Lam Reese
I think this is an excuse. You think they made a mistake.
- [78:37]
Bill Landis
Okay. Is this is going to reinvigorate the. The rust discussion with the buy. All four teams with a buy lost last year. Ohio State off the buy last this year, lost this year. Bill Rabinoz asked Ryan Day about that, and he sort of, like, said, yeah, and you talked to Matt Patricia, and Matt Patricia used the word rust.
- [79:03]
Doug Lam Reese
He said specifically Matt Patricia, that he thought Miami's first long touchdown drive, which was eight. No, sorry. 13 plays, 83 yards in the first quarter. 804. And I think they ran it, like, seven times for 40 yards or something like that on that drive. He thought that was a lot of Ohio State, like, still getting used to game speed after having not played for a while.
- [79:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Which is. I mean, I think we said that. I was like, I, I, I don't know. Also, like, Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, like, had a chance to be 100 healthy, and everybody else got rested, and I, I. But it feels like it's enough of a thing. I'll be, I'll be curious how the three on New Year's Day go And I do think it's, it's an excuse. Right. It's like we'll be ready to go. You weren't off for two months. But if they go to 16 teams in a playoff instead of 12, they're going to get four more TV games out of it. And if the four top seeds actually feel like this is a disadvantage for us, make it 16. We don't want to buy. If nobody wants a buy and it gives you extra TV content, they're going to make it 16 yesterday.
- [80:15]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, yeah, I wanted to address a comment. I think it was from Lisa. So like we didn't talk about Miami's O line against Ohio State line. I think we did a little bit earlier thought that Miami moved them a little bit in the run game and then the high seats pressure wasn't getting home at the rate they would have liked it to. We didn't, we haven't dwelled on it as much as the other side. But we did talk about it a little bit.
- [80:34]
Bill Landis
No, we did think, I mean they're Inez Cooper, right, is like all ACC type of guy up, up front. Yeah, I think, I think he was effective. And, and I think like, you know, we thought that they maybe had a chance against six nine, 360 pound Markel Bell to do some things in the, in the past rush. And I think like that, that didn't really happen. And then you just have a 6, 9 guy who's blocking in the run game. And I thought Mark Fletcher and again it's one of those things. Miami ran it 37 times for 153 yards. That's 4 yards per carry. Ohio State ran it for 1.9 yards per carry. Now that's taken a lot of sacks into account, but like the running backs in the end actually thought C.J.
- [81:14]
Doug Lam Reese
Donaldson ran pretty well.
- [81:15]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson and C.J. donaldson combined for 18 carries for 86 yards and Mark Fletcher had 19 carries for 90 yards. So it's a little bit of a wash. Basically the, the running game stuff was a wash and the, and Mark Fletcher, it felt like again there's some of those, the Miami games when Donovan Edward or the Michigan games were. Donovan Edwards was popping stuff at the end because Ohio State was trying to sell out because they were behind and they had to get a stop. And then all of a sudden there's a lane and now you're hitting a big run.
- [81:42]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, the, the big runs for Miami had five runs of 10 yards or more and three of them were in the fourth quarter.
- [81:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So I thought Mark Fletcher did a good job of getting like 4, 5, 46 instead of getting 1, 2 right and he allowed them to move the chains. And then Carson Beck's throwing five yard passes, Mark Fletcher's getting five yard runs and it's enough to put together a couple scoring drives.
- [82:12]
Doug Lam Reese
They were so yeah And Miami was seven of 14 on third down so it converted 50% and their average yard to gain on third down was I think about six yards. And Ohio State's is like almost nine. So they Miami did a slightly better job of staying on schedule.
- [82:32]
Bill Landis
Miami's drives though, punt, fumble, touchdown, punt, punt, field goal, punt, touchdown and the game. So like it's not. They had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 drives that ended not in points and three drives that ended in points. Like it is.
- [82:48]
Doug Lam Reese
It's not no Miami Ohio State like success rate wise was better than Miami rushing success rate rise was better than Miami leverage rate which is like how often are you in passing downs is about the same. I don't know like for as much as we're talking about Ohio State's offense, like overall I think you can make the argument that Ohio State's offense like outplayed Miami's offense. But Miami's offense was obviously a little more opportunistic with that last drive.
- [83:20]
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- [84:14]
Bill Landis
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- [85:37]
Doug Lam Reese
The depot, the deep ball. Yeah, yeah, it was a little late.
- [85:39]
Bill Landis
A little. And, and he had to sort of drift a little bit. But again it was a 59 yard gain. So now it's first and 10 at the 16 yard line and they go sack, pick six.
- [85:48]
Doug Lam Reese
And the sack. The sack. Sack should have been a touchdown. Julian Ms. Max Claire.
- [85:53]
Bill Landis
That's where he makes mascara. Yeah. Okay, so, but, but again you wind up in. So the sack, as I said, the sack I think leads to the. Well, we're not protecting. We better try to get the ball out of his hand. And now Keonte Scott jumps it. But that when you start a drive with the 59 yard pass to the best receiver in college football, you probably think you're going to score a touchdown on that drive A lot.
- [86:16]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, a lot of times. Oh, I say does. I think, I don't actually don't know. But I would imagine their rate of finishing those drives that have those home runs with the touchdown is pretty high.
- [86:25]
Bill Landis
So if, if that's 7, 7 instead of 14, nothing, it's a completely different game.
- [86:30]
Doug Lam Reese
But they also didn't. I guess like I was wondering, like you hit a shot and you go tempo. They didn't really do that either. But also Austin Cereval got hurt on that place, so maybe that's why they didn't. Okay, they didn't do that. But I think they had them though. They had them. They had the shot and they had the guy open in the end zone and Julian let the rush speed him up and took a sack. Yeah.
- [86:54]
Bill Landis
So in the end, how will this Ohio State season be? Remember, remembered in your mind?
- [87:04]
Doug Lam Reese
I don't. That's a good question. I like I saw Some people.
- [87:08]
Bill Landis
Reference.
- [87:09]
Doug Lam Reese
It and almost like, almost like not as, as this season but like as it's like this two year block, right, of them winning the national title last year, coming back this year, not losing the regular season, beating Michigan and like kind of like tying it all together. So I think maybe in that way this team could have won a national championship. I want to make sure I say that like I'm not all of a sudden saying like I actually thought Ohio State stunt all along and this is proof of it. Like they could have won a national championship and repeating is hard and I don't know the next time we'll be in this position with Ohio State chasing a second straight national championship. So I think there's probably going to be some regret in, in that way too. So I guess it just depends on how you choose to look at. Do you look at the singular season and feel pretty bummed out that Ohio State didn't repeat his national champions or could you look at this like two year body of work and say like, boy, they won a lot of big games. I know they didn't get it done in the end of this one, but if you tie in this year's Michigan win with what they the run they went on last year, opening the season by beating the number one team in the country, like there's reasons to be pleased with it, but not 100 of the way.
- [88:14]
Bill Landis
Obviously the 16 game stretch of the four playoff games last year and the 12 regular season games this year is.
- [88:27]
Doug Lam Reese
Practically as good as it gets.
- [88:28]
Bill Landis
Like Maybe the best 16 game stretch in Ohio State history. Yeah, and it is bookended by three losses by the Michigan loss and now the Indiana Miami loss. And so I do think, I think what I'm going to write for our substack is there are just bits and pieces of various Ohio State losses of the past that are wrapped up in, in this loss. But I think one of the Things is the 2013 season where Ohio State is going through undefeated and you think Ohio State is setting up to make the national championship game and the Buckeyes lose to Michigan State in the Big Ten championship game and then they lose to Clemson in the Orange bowl in a game that they cared about and mattered like that. And they just got beat. They couldn't cover Sammy Watkins and Braxton Miller got hurt and all those things happened. And it was, I think in the moment it' particularly difficult because the 120 built you up into thinking this team was something and then you lose the last two. And it is a bit of a Shock to the system of all the discussions we're having now of were we wrong the entire time or were we right the entire time? And this national championship caliber team blew it. But then I think it, when you step back from it and it's not the buildup and then you got shoved off a cliff and you're just maybe looking back and thinking about this team and that they made the playoff and they did beat Michigan. I. I wonder. And this is up to fans. Fans create this history in this legacy. I wonder how devastating of a loss this will be viewed as. Right. Because it is a lost opportunity. But it is also, as you astutely said, part of something bigger, which is very memorable. Two years of Ohio State football.
- [90:16]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. And I suppose what Miami does from here might impact that some, right?
- [90:20]
Bill Landis
Sure.
- [90:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Like if Miami were to go out next week and like get its butt kicked, maybe you feel even worse about this one. If Miami wins a national title, which, I don't know, I guess they could. If they can beat Ohio State, I guess they could. Then. Then I say fans won't be celebrating that, but at least makes it. Makes this loss perhaps a bit more easy to swallow. So I don't know. I think this will be one. I think this will be a season that's going to maybe like take a little bit of time for people to actually figure out how they feel about it. Yeah. And part of that is like the changing nature of college football too. Right. As we try to process everything in the sport differently. I don't know. I did like the comment that said this season will be remembered for all the money that I won betting on Ohio State unders. So. Which, like, we got another one today, so.
- [91:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [91:03]
Doug Lam Reese
Congratulations.
- [91:03]
Bill Landis
And I do think. I think how Ohio State reacts to it will matter. Right.
- [91:09]
Doug Lam Reese
And I'm, I'm very interested in that. Like, what is the tender of the off season after this.
- [91:16]
Bill Landis
So. And again, there's parts of so many losses in this. You know, in 2006, when Ohio State got to the national championship game against a team from Florida and couldn't block two NFL defensive ends, it was sort of a signal of the arrival of an era where Ohio State couldn't compete at the highest level. Right. That was the beginning of something. And then it happened again. They made it, you know, in, oh, seven and then they didn't win the bowl game in 08. And it was sort of like, well, they're beating Michigan, but like something's missing. Right. And. And it was a shock to the system, but it was the start of something. And it took them a while. Like, they actually kind of, I think on some level, like never got out of it in the trestle era. Like that sort of became the defining thing in the end is like, you know, it was a big deal when they beat Arkansas in the Sugar bowl because they finally beat the SEC, but when they got shut up by Clemson 31 nothing in 2016, and I, I think there are some pieces of that here. They immediately like dispensed, as we said, with that, that stale offensive staff and reset and kind of ushered in this new era of Ohio State football. And so that was a very disappointing loss in the moment. But I think it did not have the, the legs of like the 06 loss. Right. Because of the way they reacted to it.
- [92:29]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [92:29]
Bill Landis
And so, and then you think about, I mean, how did they react to losing the last two games in 2013? They won the national title in 2014. So like, I do think we don't yet know how this season will be viewed because what happens with adjustments to the program and this offseason will matter and what happens next season will matter and it will affect how we view this season. And if this season winds up being like, oh yeah, they got loose at the end of the year sandwiched in between a national championship and another great year, then, then this is kind of like they weren't quite as good as we thought, then they figured it out. Right?
- [93:04]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Yeah.
- [93:04]
Bill Landis
If this is like Ohio State hit a peak with a 2024 national title and then hit a little bit of a wall, the sport flattened out and Ohio State didn't play for a national championship again for another decade, then this is going to be viewed as the beginning of something.
- [93:19]
Doug Lam Reese
Sure.
- [93:19]
Bill Landis
Right. So we don't know that yet. My guess is more the former than the latter. I don't think this is, this is the beginning of a 10 year run of Ohio State not being able to compete at the top of the sport.
- [93:29]
Doug Lam Reese
No, I don't, I don't. I certainly don't think that either. And honestly, I don't. If I did, I don't know that I'd say that to people.
- [93:37]
Bill Landis
Happy New Year. It's over.
- [93:38]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, yeah, but I know, I don't, I don't. I don't think that's the case. And I think like, you know, there's. We have to see what happens with the roster too. Like, they're obviously like, Jeremiah Smith is coming back and Julian saying is coming back. Like, there's an opportunity for like, if Katie McDonald and Kenyatta Jackson and Jermaine Matthews and Carson Hinsman and Austin Serraval. Like this continuation of this, like, not, not core group that won the national title in 2024. Because a lot of those guys in the NFL now, but, like, still some tentacles reaching back to 2024 next season. Or it can be practically like a clean break and like an entirely, entirely new slate, too. And like, however that shakes out, I think will impact sort of the vibes of the off season too.
- [94:23]
Bill Landis
And it is, I think it's. And we'll let you guys go to sleep, but we appreciate you being here, hanging out. They reset completely after last year. Like, you couldn't. They, they like, had six starters back or like, they had three starters back on defense and a few more on offense, but they had a new quarterback, they had new running backs. Right. They lost a Mecca Buka. They lost Donovan Jackson. Right? They lost, they lost so many and they lost eight starters on defense. And then I, I mean, I, I, and I've Learned this over 20 years, recovering Ohio State, like, there's always somebody next, but like, especially Arvell Reese and Cade McDonald, when you think of what they were last year and what they are now, if they both go to the NFL, they will be incredibly missed. But it's like, well, what if Edric Houston and Riley Pettajohn are like. And why wouldn't you think that? Now, you can't assume it, that the next guy behind RBel Reese is going to be a top five pick in the draft. But yeah, they already had an incredible reset off a great team and they were the number one team in the country for much of the year.
- [95:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Yep.
- [95:22]
Bill Landis
So I, I know we'd seen some comments on our sub stack and some, you know, it's like they're going to lose a lot. Of course they are. But, but I don't, you know, I, I don't think Ohio State's going anywhere.
- [95:33]
Doug Lam Reese
They might add Jazz Coleman.
- [95:35]
Bill Landis
I mean, everyone thinks you're gonna have Jazz Coleman. It's Ohio.
- [95:38]
Doug Lam Reese
Rasheen Biles.
- [95:41]
Bill Landis
Okay. Is that a thing?
- [95:44]
Doug Lam Reese
It's a possibility.
- [95:46]
Bill Landis
All right, now you're cheering people up. Rashin Biles is an incredible pit linebacker.
- [95:49]
Doug Lam Reese
So he's in the portal. You saw that today, right?
- [95:51]
Bill Landis
No.
- [95:52]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, he went the portal today. Yeah.
- [95:53]
Bill Landis
Oh, that guy's a shark. That guy's awesome.
- [95:55]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [95:56]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [95:56]
Doug Lam Reese
From Pickerington.
- [95:57]
Bill Landis
He's from Pickerington. Okay. Oh, he's coming here. Okay. We're grateful that you guys let us hang out with you. Sorry. To Ohio State. Fans that that the season ended in disappointment. We will continue to sort of break down what went wrong, what's fixable, what needs to be fixed, how they can fix it, what the roster is going to look like. We will do all of that here on YouTube and on your podcast feeds. We will do even more of that on our sub stack@billanddugosu.substack.com we are just grateful that after kind of a crazy situation for us that we even have the opportunity to be covering this team in a situation like this. And the only reason we can do that is because of the passionate fans who care so much about the Ohio State Buckeyes. And we know a lot of you guys are hurting tonight. So happy New Year. Ohio State season is over. The Buckeyes fall to Miami 24 to 14 and we will catch you guys soon. For now, he is Bill landis. I'm Doug LeMarice and that was the Bill and Doug show.
- [97:12]
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