← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State Natty chances 2025 vs. 2024; best College Football Playoff matchups: Around the Shoe
00:48:11
It's a three-person Around the Shoe instead of four, but as The Bill and Doug Show looks at Ohio State in the College Football Playoff, the guest is a stud. it's Shehan Jeyarajah from CBS Sports and CBSSports.com, who a year ago picked the Buckeyes to win it all going into the playoff (something Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis did not do.)
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- [00:00]
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- [00:06]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Wood thrush, three o'.
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Doug Lamorace
Clock.
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Doug Lamorace
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Bill Landis
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Doug Lamorace
Really?
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Shahan Jay Haraja
Who knew?
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- [01:07]
Doug Lamorace
Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug show. Doug Lamorace and Bill Landis joined by great people from around the college football world. Often it's Ohio State Beatriders, a great national voice joining us here today. It's not a four box, it's a three box because everybody else we asked to be the second person bailed on us because they're all traveling today. But Shahanje Haraja is here. Shahan, you and I have been potting together for a long time. You're at CBS Sports. You're writing, you're potting. You are a man about college football. Thanks for joining us. But just tell all the folks who know you who don't know you what you're doing, how they can find you.
- [01:40]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, now, now I feel like I'm not busy enough or something. Man.
- [01:45]
You'Re the best.
- [01:46]
Doug Lamorace
You're our number one pick.
- [01:48]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Well, yeah, I'm over@cbs sports.com I write all the time for cbs sports.com I do appearances for CBS Sports HQ and CBS Sports Network and you can follow me on all social media as well. At Shahanjaraja. I take a national approach to college football. So excited to be on.
- [02:03]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah, we are really excited to have Shahan here today because we want to talk about the playoff. We're also going to obviously going to talk about it from a little bit of an Ohio State perspective and we will do the same thing we do when we have four people. We have five topics about the playoff about Ohio State football. We'll go start with somebody different. Each topic run through all the things we want to talk about. And the number one thing that we're going to start with is comparing Ohio State's national championship aspirations this year to last year. So, Chehan, we will start with you for a very specific reason and a very specific text that you sent me a year ago right about this time. Compare your feelings about Ohio State's chances this year to win the national title compared to your feelings a year ago about Ohio State's chances to win the national title. Shahan, where were you then? Where are you now?
- [02:56]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, last year I, I really felt like this team was just better than everybody, that nobody could really touch them. Obviously they lost that Michigan game, but, you know, even at the time it felt like, okay, they did a lot of stuff that caused them to lose that Michigan game. You know, it felt like such a mental block in so many ways, but it didn't necessarily feel like a pure roster issue. Now, heading into 2025 and heading into this playoff, I think that there are more holes on this team than there were last year, which makes sense. I mean, last year was so much a culmination roster, a very old roster, a defense that had been together for such a long time. And I think that the other thing too is like, there are a couple teams that I think can swing higher than maybe last year. Obviously Indiana was one of them. That I don't think was of that caliber last year. I think is this year. I, I think that Ohio State is extremely good in the trenches and on the offensive line. I don't know if they're as good as they were last year. So I think this team is a little more gettable than some one than the one that we saw last year. But I mean, I also think at the same time, like they have some of the highest upside of any team in the College Football Playoff. You know, obviously the receivers are untouchable. I didn't think that we got the best Julian say in game. I think we're going to get the best Julian say in game in the College Football Playoff at some time. And I mean, I, I got to give Matt Patricia a ton of credit. I, I did not love that hire when it was made, but I think he's done a tremendous job. So I don't feel as good as I did last year, but I still feel like this is one of, at worst, maybe the top two or three teams heading in to the college football playoffs.
- [04:27]
Doug Lamorace
So just to State for the record, at this time a year ago, who did you pick to win the national title? Sean?
- [04:33]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I picked Ohio State.
- [04:36]
Doug Lamorace
And the. You texted me and said, like, hey, they could win the national title, right? Like you were double checking. You were not. Not a lot of people a year ago. And we'll get to what? Bill and I said, we'll get to it.
- [04:50]
Bill Landis
Bill and I said a year ago.
- [04:52]
Doug Lamorace
There weren't a ton of people picking Ohio State to win the national title a year ago. I double checked the playoff odds last year at this time when the bracket was out, Oregon was the favorite at plus 330. Georgia plus 350. Texas plus 360. Ohio State plus 450. So, like a group of four, Penn State plus 750. Those were the five teams with under 10 to 1 odds to win it a year ago. This year There are also five teams. 10 to 1 odds are better. Ohio State plus 220. Indiana plus 290. Georgia plus 550. Oregon plus 800. Texas Tech plus 900. As I remember it, when you and I were texting last year, Shahan, you just were like, double checking. You thought the roster, the talent was there and you just wanted to make sure that, like, there's not something crazy going on from afar that you wouldn't be able to see.
- [05:39]
Shahan Jay Haraja
That was like, Jack Sawyer isn't about to quit, right? Like, like, Caleb Downs isn't about to, like, enter the portal before the playoff. Like, that was my big thing, right? Because I just looked at that roster last year and and was like, I get that they lost the game and that matters. I get that they lost the game at Oregon and that matters. But it just felt like this was a team again, that could not get out of its own way. But it wasn't because of limitations, right? It wasn't because of what they didn't have. And that's kind of what gave me some confidence going in. Now. Did I think it was going to be as dominant as it was? No, probably not. But I did really feel like Ohio State's best effort was better than everybody else's best effort. And, you know, and I think that that's probably the case now, but I don't feel as confident this year.
- [06:27]
Doug Lamorace
I will say it is interesting in the playoff that I think it's fair that the discussion and the way the committee looks at things during the season, like your peak matters, but also your consistency matters, which is why I don't think we can just throw out and say, well, you had a bad loss but that's not really you. It's like the bad loss counts. The Bad loss is one of 12 data points. You can't get away from that. But when you get to this point, thinking about peak, thinking about who can get hot, who can go on a run, who has the talent, who at their best can beat the other 11 best teams in college football, it's. It's a similar discussion. It's not the exact same discussion as the regular season. So, Shahan, like what you're referencing, I think is a really smart way to look about it. Bill, I can't remember exactly what did you think Ohio State was going to do in the playoff last year?
- [07:12]
Bill Landis
Let me think about it. I believe I picked Ohio State to lose to Tennessee.
- [07:20]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I could have told you about that fake offense, man. I could have told you.
- [07:23]
Bill Landis
Plenty of people tried to.
- [07:24]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah, you should have texted Johnville. You would have known.
- [07:28]
Bill Landis
I remember sitting in the press box at Ohio Stadium. I had covered. I had covered the Notre Dame Indiana game the night before. So I was a little sleep deprived and not like 100, like, feeling super hot. And like midway through the first quarter, I was just like, oh, I was wrong.
- [07:43]
This is, this was, this was the wrong read. So, yeah, so I feel much better about this time this year than I, than I did last year. I don't, I don't know that I disagree with a whole lot of what Shahan said about, like, Ohio State's roster relative to the field. I do think maybe the field has come a little closer, but I still think that Ohio State has the best roster. And, you know, it could be a little.
- [08:11]
I, I don't know how much we should take from last year in terms of, like, this. This is what the playoff is like, right? I think we need more, more data. But last year clearly, like, form didn't seem to matter that much going in.
- [08:22]
Doug Lamorace
Right.
- [08:22]
Bill Landis
Ohio State played its worst game of the year, then won the national title. I do think it, with this time, the slay off of time, the extra time to prepare, the extra time to get healthy, it maybe comes back to just sort of like, roster quality. And, and I think, I think the Buckeyes still have the best one, so we're not making national title picks on this show. But, but I, I feel a thousand times, a million times better about Ohio State's ability to win it this year than I did last year, because I just thought they were kind of done last year. Like, I thought that loss was going to be far too much for them to overcome. And the Emotional weight of it was just going to weigh them down and they weren't going to show up against Tennessee. And clearly I was wrong about that. This loss they're entering off of now, this does not weigh nearly as heavily, I don't think, frankly, no, if away is heavy at all. They played a good team. They didn't play their best.
- [09:04]
Doug Lamorace
They lost.
- [09:05]
Bill Landis
I think it'll motivate them.
- [09:06]
Doug Lamorace
But.
- [09:06]
Bill Landis
But ultimately it's just going to come down to, like, I like, top to bottom. I do think they still have the best roster.
- [09:12]
Doug Lamorace
We're not doing national title picks here. That's not. We're asking. We want to, like, analyze the playoff and think about things. Just to double check, Bill and I, a year ago on our other show, we both did Oregon, Notre Dame, national title game was both where we landed. Jesus. We're just here to reinforce how much more Sean knows about college football than the two of us. So, like, I'm just going to keep reminding of this.
- [09:31]
Bill Landis
You did pick them to beat Tennessee, though. You had Oregon beating them again, Right?
- [09:34]
Doug Lamorace
So, again, that's also why you're on the show today, to make me look smarter just because I had Oregon. But it's like, well, at least I didn't have him losing to Tennessee.
- [09:43]
Shahan Jay Haraja
We can say all this. I did have Notre Dame losing to Georgia, so you know what? You can't be right about everything.
- [09:48]
Doug Lamorace
Okay. So, like, I do think, as I think about it, a year ago, in picking Ohio State to win its first round game, but then lose to Oregon, Oregon was undefeated. Oregon was the national title favorite. Oregon had beaten Ohio State. And I think, like, maybe I thought. I. I don't know if Ohio State's better than Oregon. I think. I think they might play again and Oregon might be better than Ohio State on the talent, on the coaching, on the matchups, that. That just might be. It's not only about Ohio State. Right. There's obviously a question. The way you guys analyzed it, it's certainly like, well, are you going to get the best of Ohio State or not? That's the. Was the main conversation a year ago, but I think maybe a year ago, even as you thought about that, you could have thought, well, even the best of Ohio State. Are we sure? As much as you're right about the talent, Shahan, all those guys that were back, it's like, well, Dylan Gabriel is a very professional quarterback and it does feel like Oregon has guys on both sides of the line and like Tess Johnson. And when they're. And now, I guess I would say Going into this, I don't know that I think that there's a team.
- [10:54]
That even if Ohio State's at its best, that I would say, I don't know if Ohio State can beat them. Right. Whereas maybe a year ago I maybe thought Oregon was that team, and that's nothing against Indiana. But if Ohio State winds up playing Indiana in the national title game, I don't know who I'm going to pick. I would certainly believe that it would be a good competitive game. But I don't know if I would look at that and say, I don't know if Ohio State can beat those guys. Where maybe a year ago I would have said, I don't know if Ohio State can beat those guys. I would say I feel slightly better as well. But I think there's two things that we want to do. A reminder here, and it's back to what you said, Johan. One is, as we went into the playoff last year, Will Howard went on a crazy playoff run. The playoff quarterback he was, was not really the quarterback he was the whole time during the regular season. So we have to keep that in mind. But the NFL talent, Shahan, across the board there, there's been a lot of discussion about, like, man, is Ohio State even better this year than they were a year ago? But we cannot underestimate how tal they were last year, Shahad. And I think that is an important part of the evaluation. Do not underestimate how good 2024 Ohio State was. As you're trying to analyze what's going to happen with 2025 Ohio State.
- [12:03]
Shahan Jay Haraja
No. 100%. And I think that, look, there are some incredible players on this Ohio State team. Right. The emergence of Arvel Reese has been huge. Obviously. I mean, Sunny Styles played really well, too. But, like, when you talk about the, the depth of the lineup, like, I think that Ohio State's defensive line was better last year. Right. Just not necessarily because of talent. But also you had some guys who had been through a lot who obviously went on crazy runs. I mean, you talk about Will Howard, the playoff quarterback. I want to talk about Jack Sawyer, the, the playoff defensive end. Right. He went on a crazy run to end the year. And maybe that happens with, you know, with Kaden Curry or, or a player like that.
- [12:40]
Doug Lamorace
Right.
- [12:40]
Shahan Jay Haraja
But, like, ultimately, I think that, like, that unit in the trenches was probably a little bit better, especially once they figured out that left tackle situation last year that was obviously a huge inhibitor, you know, kind of heading in and, you know, again, similar sort of deal. Right. Like, I think There's a lot of upside at receiver. I think that they also had a lot of these talents last year. I think that obviously, I mean, you want to talk about Will Howard, the playoff quarterback last year, I mean a lot of it was also, they finally let Jeremiah Smith do his thing in especially in those first two rounds. So. And again, like, I liked their running backs a lot better last year than I did this year. So I mean there, there are things to like about this team and reasons to think that they can meet or exceed what they were last year. But no, I mean, I think that this 2024 team from a talent perspective was just unbelievable. And when you mix that in with the level of experience they had, I mean, I think that that's one of the greatest inefficiencies in college football right now, is having real legitimate experience.
- [13:38]
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- [14:10]
Bill Landis
Yeah, we didn't know it, we didn't know it at the time, but there ended up being like a lot of third and fourth round, fifth round kind of picks on Ohio State roster last year. And even I like, as someone who covers Ohio State every day, I'm a little unsure of that level of Ohio State's roster. They have a lot of first round picks. Like I saw a mock draft a week ago that they had five. But I don't know what it's like once you get past those guys. I do think Sean makes a good point. Like there's a, there's a depth conversation I think to be had when comparing those two rosters. You can highlight specific positions too. Running back. Of course, the other defensive tackle spot next to Kaden McDonald is probably not quite as good as it was last year. You know, corner maybe coming off the Indiana game when Indiana made a couple plays through the year, I still think it's a very good roster. Like I said, I would put it up against anyone else's in the field. And especially when you think about like maximizing that the talent on the roster, like if Ohio State does that, I really, I really don't think there's anybody that can beat them. But there are some different dynamics at play that maybe we shouldn't just make the assumption that because they did it last year, they're going to do it again this year.
- [15:12]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing. Like Ryan, to every, every question Ryan Day gets now, it's like, well, every year is different. Every situation is different. Every team is different. This legitimately and Ohio State fans know this. This team is legitimately very different than last year. So it's the same uniforms, it's the same head coach. There's a lot of everything else that is quite different. Caleb Downs is the same. Jeremiah Smith is, is the same. But actually like as a second year guy, as opposed to a true freshman, he's kind of different. But there's, there's so many more moving parts that, that I think the, the thing that we're arriving at here is I, it's, I wonder how good of a comparison last year's Ohio State team actually is for this year's Ohio State team. Because to your point about like, experience, like, maybe it's like, it's like, who's this year's Ohio State? I don't know if it's Ohio State, but maybe to your point about experience, Shahan, maybe there isn't one. But when you think, because we had talked about Michigan as an experienced team, Ohio State as an experienced team, everybody thought this year's team for that was Penn State and they're not here. So who's like the really experienced team going into the playoff that has all these veterans who can handle a six week run?
- [16:19]
Maybe there's not a team who has that depth of experience. Shahan.
- [16:21]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Right. Maybe it's Indiana. Right. Like that's maybe the team that's where experience is really starting to line up. But there's not a lot. I mean, we've talked about this all season over@cbssports.com like there really isn't a team that has the combination of returning quarterback play that has, you know, a lot of returners on defense, that has a very experienced offensive line. Like there kind of just isn't that team. And, and I think that, you know, for me, heading into the year, that made me feel like, okay, we're gonna get a really potentially open year. And now, now you want to talk about wrong picks. I, I picked LSU before the season to win the title, but it was because of the idea that they could take advantage of something like this. Right. They fixed all of their problems from a year ago. They just created a whole lot of new ones as well.
- [17:11]
It's going to be a lot of like, who lines up? You know, again, maybe Indiana comes in and they are just locked in the way that Ohio State was last year. Maybe Texas Tech comes in and is super locked in. I think that Oregon is one of the most intriguing teams in the field, especially if they can get Decorian more healthy. Right. I mean, that's what makes this playoff so fun is like there are some teams that certainly I think are better than others and should take care of business. But also like, I mean, you know, I'm sure we can lead into the conversation with this. Like if Miami just locked in. Right. I don't know. I mean, what we saw from Ruben Bane in the first five weeks was incredible. Like, why couldn't they just ruin everybody's day?
- [17:52]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah, let's lead into that next topic then. Our second topic is how many of these 12 do we actually think could win it? So, Bill, we'll start with you. And to remind people, Bill, early in the season on our show, there was a time we were saying that we thought the three best teams in the country were Ohio State, Oregon and Miami. And here we are. So how many would you say of this 12, the 12 could actually win?
- [18:14]
Bill Landis
So I, I preface this by saying I am not a data scientist, but I went through and I just kind of wanted to line up the field and look like I looked at four things, looked at ESPN's FBI, I looked at SP plus, looked at FEI, the Brian Fermo index, and I looked at the EPA margin on CFPA graphs and CFGraphs.com and just kind of put where teams were and then average it out to see what, see what that spit out. And it did kind of create tears. Indiana and Ohio State sort of by themselves. Texas and Oregon the next tier down, but very much by themselves.
- [18:44]
Doug Lamorace
Texas, Texas Tech.
- [18:45]
Bill Landis
Texas Tech in Oregon.
- [18:46]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Excuse me, I was going to say not Texas.
- [18:51]
I don't want to hear about it. I've heard enough.
- [18:54]
Bill Landis
I'm not here to do stark spitting. Texas Tech and Oregon. And then the third tier was Georgia A and M in Miami. So I don't know that I would include everyone on tier three. So some answer the question a long way. I think I'm at 6. Indiana, Ohio State, Texas Tech, Oregon, Georgia. And I was actually at 5. But Shahan kind of maybe consider putting Miami in there too. So I'll let Miami is a sixth because there is, there is a. There's a. I don't trust Mario crystal ball as far as I can throw him. But he does have talent on that roster. So if they were to lock in, I, I could see it. So I'll say, I'll say those six. Indiana, Ohio State, Texas Tech, Oregon, Georgia, Miami.
- [19:32]
Doug Lamorace
Okay, I am also not a. Not a data scientist, but those are my seven. And I'm gonna go with all your tiers. And this is one of the reasons. And actually one of the reasons, Bill, is like, when you and I just very quickly other day were like, who do we think is going to win? Miami and Texas A and M. I said Miami. You said Texas A and M. And now you're just saying you believe, maybe believe in Miami. But I also want to say, I think there's reason to believe in Texas A and M, that during the course of this year, we know their schedule was not great, but they were also playing in a way. They were one of the three undefeated teams that was left for a long time. It's like I thought they kind of clearly look like the best team in the SEC for much of the regular season. I don't think we should throw Texas A and M away. And I don't think, like right now, I think Texas A and M is about a three point favorite over Miami. I think there's. I think those are two interesting teams. And this is why I think it's worth throwing both Miami and Texas A and M into this discussion. Obviously this is different than last year. The four teams with buys last year all lost. And a lot of that was Oregon had a buy, had to play a banger in Ohio State. Georgia had a buy, had to play a banger in Notre Dame. And then the other two teams, Arizona State and Boise State. No Boise State. And.
- [20:42]
You were right. You were right. I was right. Probably shouldn't have had buys. So, like, we aren't in that spot now. So it's like. But. So I don't think that everyone's going to be on like a layoff conversation. Like the layoff. The layoff's going to kill you. But if you want to have that conversation, applying it to the Ohio State matchup against the Miami Texas A and M winner, it is a little bit of like, man, if you want to get Ohio State, maybe that's the round to get them. And if that Texas A and Miami winner, we think maybe both those teams have a little something, then maybe that's a spot. So I think it's worth including both of them in this group. So I go seven. Shahan, how many would you say, well.
- [21:25]
Shahan Jay Haraja
First of all, you're. You're convincing me to drive down for that Texan Miami game. Yeah, that's actually. I don't know. You're making some compelling points here. Let's approach from the other side as well. Okay. Let's talk about the other five teams that you don't.
- [21:36]
Doug Lamorace
Okay.
- [21:36]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Right. I think that Tulane, probably not. James Madison, you know, obviously not. I'm really down on Oklahoma. I, I think that actually probably the most impactful thing to this playoff this year was Oklahoma not losing to lsu, because I think if they lose that game and we slide Notre Dame in, like, I think BYU should have got a little more credit than they did. But, like, we, we don't have real controversy. Right. Like, if that happens, I think Oklahoma's in big trouble. I think that Alabama is a very flawed team. You saw that in a 28. 7 loss in the SEC title game. And who's. Who's the team that I'm missing as well?
- [22:11]
Bill Landis
Ole Miss.
- [22:12]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Ole Miss, dude. I, I have no idea how Ole Miss is number six, actually, if I was an A and M fan, I would be pissed because their strength of schedule was number 16 versus in the 40s for Ole Miss. And like, Ole Miss's big win was over in Oklahoma. Team who I just mentioned, I don't feel all that strongly about. And then they played Georgia, not terribly. And that's their whole resume. Like, what are we talking about here? Them being six, even with Texas A&M at seven. So, anyway, that's. Those are my thoughts on, on that team.
- [22:48]
Bill Landis
That's beautiful.
- [22:48]
Doug Lamorace
God, that was great.
- [22:49]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Thank you. The thing that, the one thing too, you know, when, when you start getting into the A and Miami conversation that you say, right. Is like, I don't love that their path involves Ohio State.
- [23:00]
Doug Lamorace
Yes.
- [23:01]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I don't love that that's their first big game in the Cotton Bowl. But I, I. And the other thing, too, is if you asked me about Texas A M at the end of October, I would have felt very confident that they're a team that could win the national title. I feel a lot less confident after seeing how they handled the moment against Texas and the struggles that they had. Now maybe again, same deal. Maybe they lock in because of what happened against Texas.
- [23:26]
Doug Lamorace
Right.
- [23:26]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I mean, that was, that was what happened with Ohio State last year, is that they lost a rivalry game and then said enough is enough.
- [23:32]
Bill Landis
I agree. Davis Warren and Arch Manning are very similar.
- [23:37]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I, I think.
- [23:40]
I, I think that.
- [23:42]
I think I lean five. I think I leave five I think I don't include either of the teams from that in a Miami game. And like you said, I mean the, the game management piece for Miami I think is significant. When you talk about having to win four games to win a national championship, I think that some of the, the issues that presented themselves on defense in the, in the Texas A M game kind of give me some pause. So I think that that top five though, I feel really strongly about. And I think that Oregon though is probably the most interesting one. Just when trying to evaluate that.
- [24:15]
Doug Lamorace
Okay, I, I think that's probably right. Because Bill, even as you and I are leaking into 6 and 7, it's like, well, we don't. It's not like we would see Miami and or Texas A M as like equal to Indiana or it's just like.
- [24:27]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Well, no punchers chance but you know, could they be equal to Oregon? I mean it's on the T but you know, I tend to lean a little bit on the other side just again because of how things have gone lately.
- [24:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [24:41]
DSW Advertiser
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- [25:14]
Doug Lamorace
Okay. All right, let's go to question number three. This is what is the best matchup or potential matchup in the entire field, Right. So either be it's a game that scheduler is like, well if this team wins and this team wins and I want to see this. I would like to say I think there is an answer to this. If you open your mind. If you open your mind, there's an answer that I think is the number one answer. Just I, I want to see if you guys just try to like if you're the most open minded you could be.
- [25:45]
What is the answer to this question? Before I give the answer, is there something.
- [25:49]
Bill Landis
This is the most.
- [25:50]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Where are you going with this?
- [25:52]
Bill Landis
James Madison against Indiana.
- [25:54]
Doug Lamorace
That is it.
- [25:55]
Shahan Jay Haraja
That is it.
- [25:56]
Doug Lamorace
In the.
- [25:59]
New Sig. Old Sig. Are we kidding me?
- [26:03]
So all JMU has to do is beat Oregon and Texas Tech and like.
- [26:07]
Bill Landis
We'Re good to go.
- [26:07]
Shahan Jay Haraja
No problem. No problem.
- [26:09]
Doug Lamorace
So I'm just saying it's like. And all these guys, it would be like, well, there's actually. There's 63 guys from the 20, 23 JMU roster on this game. Half of them are on Indiana and half of them are still on jmu. It would. It would blow people's minds because, as people know, Kurt Signetti was the JMU coach, got the job at Indiana and brought a lot of players with him. D' Angelo Pons and. And Aiden Fisher and Mikhail Kamara and Elijah Surratt. Like, JMU built two playoff teams. It is amazing. So I don't think that's gonna happen. But, Sean, you would write that, right? You'd be writing that at CBS Sports.
- [26:51]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Well, I think. I think my buddy John Talty, he's been around Kurt Signetti a lot. I think that he might get first dibs on that one. But, no, that. That would be an incredible game. That would be an incredible game now. It would be an incredible matchup. That's probably a little more where I'm, you know, a little more.
- [27:05]
Bill Landis
Then they kick the ball off.
- [27:07]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah.
- [27:08]
Shahan Jay Haraja
So I will say, you know, obviously, I'm a little biased being down here and all that. There was, like, a moment where, again, it was never gonna last, but there was a moment where our Brad Crawford at CBS had the projection as a first round game being Texas Tech vs Texas in Lubbock and the second round, them playing Texas A M. And I would have died for that bracket, man. I would have. Oh, my goodness. Can you imagine that? Getting those games back to back? That would have been incredible. I don't think that that Tech versus A M on its own has the same level of juice.
- [27:42]
Doug Lamorace
You know, that if that happened, like, that would. Like, what would people in Texas do if we. If we did somehow get A and M in Tech?
- [27:49]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, no, I mean, that would be. That would be a huge game. That would be a huge game. But, like, it's. Texas is the big, bad empire. Right? Like, that's. That's. That's the. That's the, like. Oh, you know, that. That's the. The moment where you get to prove yourself a little bit. So, you know, we don't. I don't know that there's that matchup necessarily for Tech in it. Yeah, I mean, look, there's a lot of good games. Right. I mean, I think that all. Like, again, we talked about. I mean, some of the dynamics of the. Of the A M game are really interesting. I think that obviously, you know, there's a lot of teams that I'd love to see Ohio State against. I'd love to see them. I'd love to see them against Texas Tech. I'd love to see them get the rematch against Indiana. I'd love to see them how they match up with Georgia this year. Yeah, but, I mean, I think you're right. Like, the. The storylines heading into the Kurt Signetti bowl would be a lot of fun, but I don't know. I don't know. Bill, do you have any. Any further thoughts on that?
- [28:43]
Bill Landis
I like. Which I think will happen because James Madison is not going to play Indiana. I. I really like an Oregon Texas Tech game.
- [28:52]
Shahan Jay Haraja
That's gonna be a lot of fun.
- [28:53]
Bill Landis
Oh, yeah, I think that could be. And honestly, like, whatever, keep the other guys on the bench. Just give me Oregon's O line against Texas Tech, D line, and let everybody else get a water break. That's really. That's really all I care about.
- [29:03]
Doug Lamorace
Like, that.
- [29:03]
Bill Landis
That can be, like, the line of scrimmage battle of the year with. With, like, a healthy Tech. Yeah, I think. I think I would lean that way, too, based off what Indiana did to Oregon's offensive line. But, like, you know, like a healthy, kind of refreshed Oregon O line that gets to work some stuff out against James Madison, then going up against Texas Tech, I think could be really fun. So of the games that are within the realm of possibility, that was one that jumped out to me.
- [29:27]
Doug Lamorace
And also, like, I'm trying to think. What would you call that? It's like shoe money versus oil money in the modern college football. Right. I'm trying to think, like, what is it? Is there, like, one.
- [29:36]
Bill Landis
Oh, I didn't think of that. Yeah.
- [29:40]
Fist fight at the 50.
- [29:42]
Doug Lamorace
Does it make the sound. I don't know, Shahan, if you've been around oil coming out of the ground, does it go goosh?
- [29:47]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Because it does kind of go whoosh out of the ground. Yeah. Whoosh versus swoosh. Is that what you're. Is that what you're getting at?
- [29:54]
Doug Lamorace
You can have that one, brother.
- [29:57]
Like, assuming JMU doesn't pull the upset, we're getting whoosh versus Swoosh. We're getting shoe versus oil. Like, we're doing this thing and so, like, two programs who have arrived. So they're here.
- [30:09]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yes.
- [30:09]
Doug Lamorace
But also, are they staying? And is this part of. It's both the flattening of college football that more teams have opportunities, but it's also about, like, the new peaks of college football that they're not really, like, the. Oh, isn't this wonderful that these little schools have opportunity. It's like the world has changed, the rules have changed, and now you can throw money at problems. And these are two schools that are sort of uniquely situated in different ways to have resources. Shahan. And I do think I want to read your story about that, Sean. Just.
- [30:43]
Right.
- [30:43]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, no, it's. I think it's, it's great. And like you said, it's kind of like a, a new money battle in so many ways. And I think that, you know, I, I also love it because these programs are not shy about who they are. These coaching staffs are not shy about who they are. You know, I've gotten the question. Obviously somebody's written a lot about Tech, like, why do they keep talking about the nil stuff? Because, look, you want to talk about, like, buying success. Like Ohio State kind of did that last year, right? Like, they retained everybody. Like, this all counts. It doesn't matter. The thing about Tech, obviously, is that one, they're not supposed to be here and two, like, they talk about it, they're open. Like, they're very transparent about it. Texas pretends that, like, oh, no, we just recruit really hard. We have great relate. No, they have the most roster in college football. Texas Tech's like, here's what we're doing. And because we're transparent about it, because we're honest about it, we also get to address it in the building. And so, no, I think it would be a lot of fun. I'd love to see just personality wise, Joey McGuire versus Dan Lanning would be a lot of fun. I think that those two guys would love to hate each other for a couple weeks there. So it's a. I'm excited for that game. No doubt.
- [31:51]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And the Orange ball, right?
- [31:55]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yes, it is the Orange. It is the Orange Bowl.
- [32:00]
Doug Lamorace
Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.
- [32:02]
Bill Landis
Watch new money goes to die. Yeah.
- [32:04]
Doug Lamorace
Oh, Southeast.
- [32:05]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Maybe this is a bad place to take kids with nil money, man. Maybe we need to get somebody else out there.
- [32:11]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [32:12]
Doug Lamorace
Talk about taking your talents to south beach. But. But feel like a good, a good ball matchup too.
- [32:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, that's why, that's why I was initially excited about it. You guys, I think, found a more interest. Interesting sort of entree into that game. But no, I think, yeah, the, the line of scrimmage is in that game. And also too, you know, we were watching the, the Big 12 title game, and I have some questions about Texas Tech's offense against, like, very good defenses and, and clearly their defense is going to keep a lot of teams down. So I'm not saying they have to score 40 to win, but, like, can. Can they be explosive? Can they make the plays they need to make against good defenses? I think. I think is a fair question about that team, but I think the same thing would be true about Oregon. Right. So. So I think they're. They're pretty similarly built and, like, at their best are sort of menacing on the line of scrimmage, but the ability to be very explosive kind of on the outside of the skill positions, and I just think it'd be a heck of a matchup.
- [33:02]
Doug Lamorace
Yeah. Okay, let's go back to Shahan for topic number four. We are recording this before a scheduled news conference at noon Eastern with the Notre Dame athletic director. So by the time you watch or listen to this, I don't know if Notre Dame dropped football or whatever, what they're doing at the thing, if whatever. So, Shahan, Notre Dame's not in. Notre Dame not making the playoff field is blank. What is your 1 or 1 or 2 or 3 word answer to Notre Dame not making it as blank?
- [33:29]
Shahan Jay Haraja
So there's two pieces of this, but I'll answer that first question with understandable. Like, I. I think that it is very legitimate that Notre Dame did not qualify for the playoff field. I think that you look at their resume, we knew that after they started 02 against really the only two quality teams on their schedule, that they had a very tough climb back to true contention. I think that, to me, like, it makes perfect sense that Miami beat them head to head and ended up ahead of them in the rankings with the same records with, by the way, two also very, very close games that they lost.
- [34:05]
But obviously my real qualm with it is why did the playoff committee lie to us for six weeks, Right? Like, why there is no magic rule. I. I don't know who told Hunter Yuricheck this. There's no magic rule that teams are only comparable when they're one spot apart from each other. That. That's a ridiculous assertion. Like, we've all gone through and ranked teams and done all this sort of stuff. Like, yeah, there are often tiers of teams. Like a team that's number nine could be comparable to a team that's number 14. Like, that's just the way that this works, right? So to be sitting here being told by the committee that they weren't comparable until BYU lost, and now suddenly they're comparable. It's just a ridiculous thing to me because what you said was that you previously thought that Notre Dame was better in BYU But Miami was worse. But now Miami is not only better in byu, but now they're better in Notre Dame as well. Like that, that's total, total nonsense. And they have a right to be upset about that. Right. Like everybody in that building is making long term decisions based on what they've been told is going to happen. Right. Like everybody's planning their processes and their game planning and all this stuff with the understanding that, hey, we're going to be in the College Football Playoff plan accordingly. And so that's the, that's the real qualm is that the committee shouldn't have lied to our faces for five weeks, but this is probably the result that should have happened.
- [35:38]
Doug Lamorace
Okay.
- [35:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [35:41]
I, I mean I, I agree with everything you said. My word. Yeah. Deceitful, proper, probably. Yeah, yeah. Like it's not surprising. They, they, they, they telegraphed it with the, the penultimate rankings. Right. And we talked about it.
- [35:55]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Well, where Alabama beating 5 and 7. Auburn changed everything.
- [35:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah, right, right, right. So I think, yeah, right. Result, probably terrible process. Like the, about the worst process you could possibly have. So it' like the way, the way that they presented it to us for a month and a half, really two months basically. And then the change at the last minute, I again, like, I think they did get it right, but they kind of looked like fools along the way.
- [36:21]
Doug Lamorace
So, so I will say one I think is sort of like lucky for everyone else because I, I picked Notre Dame was my preseason national title pick. If they were in the field, I'd be thinking long and hard about picking Notre Dame to win the national title. And I think a lot of people have said that we know that the odds would at least. But I do think my word was ghosted. And actually like a young person, I'm old. A young person told me that in this generation, if someone texts you and says, I'll be there in an hour, that means they're never coming.
- [36:53]
And so I have tried to apply this and this idea that it's like, but wait, I received a message digitally. I never actually spoke to you in person face to face, but I received a message from you in other ways that led me to believe something. And then right at the point when I thought it was go time, I never heard from you again. Is so of the moment and of the modern era. How can we be mad?
- [37:22]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I have a better clarifying comment. I think that they're gaslits. I think that they've been told one thing over and over because hey, I'll give them this. The committee did not ghost them. They said to their face, no.
- [37:34]
Doug Lamorace
What.
- [37:34]
Shahan Jay Haraja
What do you mean you're gonna be in. What are you talking about? Like, you were never invited in the first place. Like, what are you talking. And so, so I think. I think that maybe gaslit is kind of. Because I, I love that sentiment. But yeah, I think. I think that being gaslit is also the. The very new age thing to. To say. And you know what? And. And since. Since Notre Dame was gaslit, you know what?
- [37:57]
Bill Landis
They've.
- [37:57]
Shahan Jay Haraja
They've expressed a whole lot of narcissistic personality disorder as well.
- [38:05]
Doug Lamorace
What are we mad about? How are we angry at all Gas lit and ghosted. The story of the 2025 Notre Dame fighting Irish. That's true. If Notre Dame would have turned on the playoff show on Sunday and there was a black screen and it was like, we get it. Nobody told us.
- [38:24]
Shahan Jay Haraja
You want to talk about ghosted? The BYU Cougars. They were ghosted.
- [38:27]
Doug Lamorace
Yes. So again, it's like the, the bottom. Because I do think in the end, I think we would. If, if Bama had been bumped out, we would have had a structural conversation about conference title games. If, if, if Miami hadn't made it, we would have had a structural conversation about this head to head matter. And this really. It's about feelings. Notre Dame's feelings got hurt. But I think if the things that we think we're supposed to value in evaluating teams all got followed, they just got lied to. We all got lied to for six weeks. But like, if it's just feelings, man, it's just ball. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry.
- [39:03]
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- [39:35]
Doug Lamorace
Okay, last one is this. We will start with you, Bill. Out of a hundred percent, what percent is the playoff system and all the parts of it? It's 12. It's. It's. It's a 12 team playoff. We have a committee. The committee does weekly rankings. Like all of it. What. What percent of it is wonderful. And you know what? This is as good as we can do. And what Percent of it is a ridiculous mess.
- [40:01]
Bill Landis
I think I'm, I'm at like 65. Wonderful. Like I, I do, I do like a fair amount of it. I think 12 is probably right. You know, I, I like the way it's sort of structured now with like the, the conference champs or the top five conference champs getting in. I'm glad we switched the, the structure of who gets the, the buys coming off of last season. I think, I think that's right. I thought the first round games on campus last year were excellent. We'll see if they hold up this year. Like, I'm not a ban the G6 from the playoff kind of person, but. But I also like will freely admit, like we're not going to get as many good games as the first round or like good environments probably is the right way to say it in the first round with, with Tulane going, the Ole Miss and James Madison going to Oregon. But like Oklahoma, Alabama should be a great first round game. Miami, Texas A M should be a great first round game. So like I think it's fun. I think it's good they're on campus. And then the 35 mess is just like mostly the. What we've been talking about. The, the. Talking yourself in circles on a weekly basis about the rankings nonsensically just feels a bit unnecessary. We had a conversation, Doug, maybe around the second rankings of should they do this every week? And I think I was in the camp of like, yes they should because the transparency matters, but there is really no transparency. So I think I'm back in the camp of like, no, like give us the first rankings, maybe give us the last rankings and keep Hunter your check. Whoever is in that role at the time, like in a closet somewhere until it's time to talk about it at the end. Because like we just, we just get nothing from it other than confusion. And I don't think it has to be that way necessarily. So that's where it can be cleaned up. But, but like the, the structures, the structure of it and the games themselves I do think are great.
- [41:38]
Doug Lamorace
Okay, I'm 75, 25. Wonderful to ridiculous. Because I do think that it's, it's. It's the best. And I think, Dan, what's the world to come about this today? Like, it's the worst system except all the other ones, you know, like, like it not great. But like what else would be better? I know people are using, for instance all the BCS computers still exist. You can do the BCS average. The bcs. If we had Just computer rankings to, to pick the field would have Notre Dame in, Miami out. And if computers said like Notre Dame's in and Miami's out and like, didn't take the head to head and like, people would, it'd be the end of the, we'd go back to the stone age, right? We'd be a bunch of like, there'd be, we'd end computers as we know it. So. Which also maybe I'm in favor of, but we couldn't do this on a digital zoom then. But like I, so I think.
- [42:25]
I think it's mostly perception. I think it's like the committee chair says weird stuff, you know, but the actual like final answers I think are pretty good. And again, compared to a couple years ago when undefeated Florida State didn't get to be in the playoff, we are so much better than we were then that we just have to remember what we're complaining about. And in the end, I think the complaints are valid, but I also think they are minuscule compared to the things we've actually had problems with in the past.
- [42:56]
Shahan Jay Haraja
So.
- [42:56]
Doug Lamorace
Shahan, where are you?
- [42:58]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, I, I think that, so let's, let's just say the competition itself to start, right. I think we're at like 80 wonderful and 20 mess. I think this is a really good system. I think that the games are going to be fantastic. I think that, that like, again, it's good. I think even, even the, the group of five games that people are mad about are still going to be like fun environments and you'll get to, maybe you'll get to see a show off and you know, stuff like that. Like, I think it's gonna be fine. You know, I think that about the playoff last year, everybody complained about the first round, then the second round was incredible, right? Like, it's just, that's true of sports in general, right? Not, not every single moment's going to be a winner. And that doesn't mean that things are broken. I think that a lot of the biggest issues with this are things that are actually just giant issues with the sport right now. And what I mean by that. Now, let me, let me also say I have generally been in favor of doing these weekly rankings. I think that if you are impacting the credibility of your process by doing them, that's where you run into trouble. I don't think that they've historically done that to a large extent. I think that this year they really did damage to like perception of the entire system because to some extent of the guy who they had talking on behalf of them as well. But, but I think that another big part of this is again, just like all this outside stuff, like the problem isn't that Notre Dame had such an incredible case. It's that Notre Dame's not used to being the one getting left out. It's that Texas isn't used to being the one getting left out. We don't have these Giants people freaking out about again. And there's a reason that I'm kind of the guy who does it. Like, we don't have people decrying BYU kind of getting screwed, screwed through this process. Right, because they're supposed to be someone who gets screwed. Texas isn't supposed to get screwed. Vanderbilt's supposed to get screwed. Texas is not. Notre Dame is not. And I think that really the kind of existential thing that's happening right now is that everybody is so afraid in terms of the big brands of getting left behind in any tiny way that they're kind of trying to break everything to benefit themselves in any way that they can. I don't know if that's solvable by any playoff structure. Right. Like, that's not a playoff conversation. That's a, you need to just play sports better conversation. Right.
- [45:20]
Doug Lamorace
Like.
- [45:21]
Shahan Jay Haraja
And so that's why I don't give a lot of blame to the playoff system itself, because I don't think that there's a system necessarily that would solve some of these existential issues and existential dreads that seem to be popping up, up over and over again. Now look, I think that next year, again, I think people yesterday said that he expects it to stay at 12 heading into next year with the same sort of system. Look, I, I think that it's going to be interesting to see how valuable buys are this year because I think last year obviously they were not. And that would be kind of the one thing that I would understand some conversation over is if we do kind of move to 16 so we get a full slate of first round home games so that, you know, again, Georgia will have never hosted a playoff game. Right. Like that. I, I understand why they might want to do that instead of having a buy, especially if they're getting a pretty manageable opponent. But like, it's mostly tweaks when you're talking about the actual playoff and playoff system itself. It's really all the annoying noise about college football that really is not dependent on what the playoffs are system is.
- [46:31]
Doug Lamorace
And I think most of the noise is like, oh my God, are they gonna kill the sport? And then like the final answer. The answer was no. They didn't kill it. They did what they should have done all along. They just, like, messed with us.
- [46:42]
Shahan Jay Haraja
No.
- [46:43]
Doug Lamorace
For half the season.
- [46:44]
Shahan Jay Haraja
I. I made this comparison on another show that, like, right now, the big brands, especially the ones who get left out, remind me so much of, like, angry Kate and Clark, WNBA fans, where they're just like, if you don't treat us with respect, respect, we're gonna. We're gonna stop watching, and you're gonna lose all your money. And. And then, like, they stop watching because they never watched in the first place, and life goes on, and it's just like, okay, like, at a certain point, like, I don't know how we reach this point in society where we're like, if you don't treat us very fairly, then, like, we're gonna break everything because we can. You know, we can. We can break everything. I. I hope you know that we can break everything. And. And it's like. Like, just. Just. Just, like, play sports better. Like, just. Just, like, cover Dallas Wilson when you're playing Florida. Like, just. Just, like, don't. Like, don't allow a 4th and 13 conversion in the end zone to a walk on Titan. Like, just don't do that stuff and win the games, and we don't have to have this conversation about how you have the ability to break the sport. Like, again, like, nobody. Georgia's not doing this. Ohio State's not doing this because they're actually winning stuff. It's the teams that don't want to feel left behind that are doing this stuff. And it. To me, it's just like, just play sports, man. Just.
- [48:07]
Doug Lamorace
Just.
- [48:07]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Just play sports better.
- [48:08]
Doug Lamorace
I don't know what a reflection of society college football is. Who knew?
- [48:13]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Well, that's why we love it, and that's why. It's. Because it is. It is. It's. It's.
- [48:16]
Doug Lamorace
It.
- [48:17]
Shahan Jay Haraja
You see this in every aspect of life right now. People being like, we should just change the rules because I shouldn't have been disrespected. Like, yeah, right. Come on.
- [48:25]
Doug Lamorace
Just this. This country, right? I was like, God bless America. Also. Everybody wants to kill everybody. The same with college football. God bless the sport. Everyone's mad all the time.
- [48:35]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Listen, if you feel disrespected, ask yourself in your own personal life, did you cover Dallas Wilson? If you didn't, then maybe you don't need to be having this conversation.
- [48:47]
Doug Lamorace
All right, that was a wonderful conversation about Ohio State, the College Football Playoff, what we're doing here in this sport. It's going to be a fun six weeks until the national title game on January 19th. Shahan, again, for the folks, they want to follow you, they want to watch you, want to make sure they like you think, my God, I love watching this guy talk. Tell them about your show, your, your YouTube show with your friends over there at CBS Sports.
- [49:08]
Shahan Jay Haraja
Yeah, well, of course, as always, you can follow our work over@cbs sports.com follow me on all social media at Shanj Raja, like Doug referred to, we have a show, the College Football Insiders. We do it with our full complement of, of insiders over at CBS Sports. It runs at least once a week, often twice a week on CBS Sports Network. And then you can also find it all the clips on YouTube and I think that they've finally gotten back to posting it on podcast feeds. But this is, this is way above my, my pay grade. I don't know. I, I, I, I, the best part about being talent is that I don't have to deal with any of that stuff.
- [49:43]
Doug Lamorace
Oh, the, the best part about having your own sub stack is that we do have to deal with all that stuff.
- [49:51]
Bill Landis
We do. Yeah, we do.
- [49:53]
Doug Lamorace
So you guys can find us, as you know, on our substack Bill and Doug osu.substack.com land is we doing anything until Ohio State players. We're just chilling.
- [50:01]
Bill Landis
I think we'll do some stuff. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna, I will dive into Ohio State's playoff path I think this week kind of analyzing what's ahead of the Buckeyes. But yeah, we'll have plenty of stuff before Ohio State gets to Dallas.
- [50:13]
Doug Lamorace
All right, very good. Shahan, you're the best man. That's Shahan. Jay Haraja from CBS Sports. Thank you so much for joining us here. Thanks to you guys. We're gonna have more around the shoes here in, in the run up to the playoff. We'll, we might even have some extra ones. We'll see. But we always appreciate you guys joining us here for now for Shahan Jay Haraja, for Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice and that was around the shoe on the Bill and Doug show.
- [50:43]
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