Ohio State NFL Draft reactions with The Athletic's Dane Brugler, plus Big Ten beats SEC in 1st round

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State NFL Draft Reactions Episode Air Date: April 25, 2026 Hosts: Doug Lesmerises, Bill Landis (out sick) Guest: Dane Brugler (The Athletic)

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the 2026 NFL Draft, focusing on Ohio State Buckeyes' historic first-round showing and the shifting college football landscape, especially the Big Ten surpassing the SEC in first-round draft picks for the first time since 2006. Doug and guest Dane Brugler provide expert breakdowns on each Ohio State draftee, explore NFL team fits, and discuss broader implications for college football power dynamics.

---

Major Topics and Insights

1. The Unpredictable First Round for the Buckeyes

• Doug and Bill admit their predictions were off for Buckeyes’ landing spots ([01:49]).
• Dane’s approach to draft coverage with “The Beast” as an ongoing reference for fans and professionals ([01:49]).

---

2. Deep Dive: Ohio State’s Four First-Rounders

Carnell Tate: Titans, Pick #4

• Surprises as first Buckeye taken; first receiver off the board at #4 — extremely rare ([02:27]-[06:22]).
• Dane would have chosen Arvell Reese for the Titans but understands the logic:
  • “You invested in Cam Ward, your #1 overall pick at quarterback last year. You need to do whatever you can to support that quarterback, and Carnell Tate... I feel good about his floor. I feel good that he’s going to be a pro because he’s a three-level threat.” (Dane, [04:35])
• Unique attributes: “His tracking is unbelievable...zero drops on the year, just a very quarter-friendly guy.” ([04:48])
• Memorable Moment: The rarity of a receiver going #4 overall and speculation about next year’s phenom, Jeremiah Smith.
  • “If Carnell Tate’s the number four pick in the draft, what is Jeremiah Smith next year, like the minus two pick?” (Doug, [05:19])

Arvell Reese: Giants, Pick #5

• Reese was Dane’s #1 overall prospect in “The Beast” ([07:30]).
• The Giants took him despite edge rusher not being a top need — “they couldn’t pass on this player” ([07:44]).
• Potential impact: Could force changes to Giants’ defensive alignment and possible trades (e.g., moving Kayvon Thibodeaux).
• “Arvel Reese is only limited by the creativity of your defensive coordinator.” (Dane, [12:36])
• Discusses his versatility: “He can be whatever you want him to be. He’s a chameleon, right?” ([11:18])
• On the Jets passing on Reese: “It’s not a miscarriage of justice that Arvell Reese didn’t go at number two...it’s just not what I would have done.” ([09:31])

Sonny Styles: Commanders, Pick #7

• Styles was high on Washington’s board; Doug and Dane both viewed him as a strong candidate for a trade-up ([13:05]-[15:15]).
• Noted as a perfect fit for Dan Quinn’s defensive rebuild: “He just oozes intangibles as a person, as a leader, as somebody that is going to make your organization better” (Dane, [14:23]).
• Positional value discussion: Why an elite linebacker can justify a top-10 pick due to sub-down versatility, man coverage, blitz packages ([16:50]-[17:35]):
  • “What separates Sonny Styles is his sub value...he's comfortable rushing from different alignments...the development that he made was very impressive.”

Caleb Downs: Cowboys, Pick #11 (Trade Up)

• Cowboys traded up one spot anticipating Downs might not last; “I thought 12 was his floor to the Cowboys” (Dane, [20:05]).
• Downs’ interview superpower: Football IQ, ability to break down defenses in interviews (“He speaks the language with coaches schematically and he would flat out tell coaches...I can make it even better.” [21:13])
• Notable theme: Safety positional value depresses draft slot. “Downs is...a top five player in this draft. But he falls to 11 because of safety.” ([21:51])
• Cowboys thrilled with the pick (“They were over the moon, just thrilled, so excited about what Downs is going to bring” [22:39]).

---

3. Ohio State’s QB Julian Sayin: 2026 Outlook ([24:00])

• Doug asks Dane about his early impressions as a potential 2027 draft prospect.
• Dane’s cautious optimism: “Clearly, he’s an accurate quarterback, clearly he processes well...but you expect more out of the QB in some of those situations.”
• Areas for improvement: Pocket mobility, extending plays, “looked small at times.”
• Not considered a first-round pick yet for 2027, but “keeping an open mind.” ([24:26]-[26:22])

---

4. The Big Ten Surpasses the SEC in the Draft: End of an Era

The Big Picture Breakdown ([27:44]-[38:41]):

• For the first time since 2006, the Big Ten outpaced the SEC in first-round picks: 10 (Big Ten) to 7 (SEC).
• Doug sees this as the “last domino to fall” in a 20-year stretch of SEC dominance (both on-field and in draft perception).
  • “It is to say this gigantic run of SEC draft dominance, just like the run of SEC on field championship dominance, is dead. It’s absolutely, positively dead.” (Doug, [30:49])
• Compares rapid SEC decline in first-round picks and the shift in recruiting, development, retention, and transfer portal use.
• “I don’t think there’s anything that the SEC does better than the Big Ten right now… The edge for the SEC is gone.” ([36:15])

---

5. Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Dane Brugler’s Draft Coverage:
  “Last night was fun. First round of the draft…The only pick we knew was at number one, the rest was up in the air. It was fun to see it play out real time.” (Dane, [01:28])

• On Arvell Reese’s Versatility:
  “He is a special athlete...the beauty of Arvell Reese, the reason he was my number one, is he can be whatever you want him to be.” (Dane, [12:06])

• On SEC’s Transfer-Heavy Picks:
  “The only guy who went the first round for the SEC who was recruited to that school by the coach who's still there was Monroe Freeling, the tackle for Georgia.“ (Doug, [34:55])

• On the Big Ten’s Newfound Superiority:
  “Recruitment, development, retention – that’s all for your guys. And then there’s the portal. And I don’t think there’s anything the SEC does better than the Big Ten right now.” (Doug, [36:15])

---

6. Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:12] Introduction and Dane Brugler joins
• [02:27] Discussion of Carnell Tate as Titans pick
• [07:44] Arvell Reese to Giants, Jets’ decision breakdown
• [13:05] Sonny Styles’ fit with Commanders, positional value
• [20:05] Caleb Downs picked by Cowboys, safety value in the draft
• [24:26] Early NFL thoughts on Julian Sayin
• [27:44] The Big Ten’s historic triumph over the SEC in round one
• [30:49] Doug’s ‘end of the SEC era’ speech
• [33:44] Impact of NIL, transfers, and development on SEC and Big Ten draft results
• [36:15] Argument for the Big Ten’s ascendancy

---

7. Closing Thoughts and Teaser for Next Show

• Doug teases more content on future Buckeye draft prospects and deeper Big Ten vs. SEC analysis (“We might break off a show for it...we’d like to get back into that a little bit more.” [28:10]).
• Encourages listeners to stay tuned for offseason and mock draft content on the Bill and Doug Show.

---

Summary Takeaway:
This episode provides insightful, behind-the-scenes analysis of how Ohio State players fit with their NFL teams, celebrates a major draft win for the Big Ten, and signals a new era in college football’s power balance. Doug and Dane offer both granular scouting wisdom and big-picture context, making this a must-listen (or must-read) for Buckeye fans and anyone invested in the shifting geography of the sport.

Transcript

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And, Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Hey, everyone, Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug Lemurice]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Liberty, Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Grainger Spokesperson]

When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Doug Lemurice]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. A very special guest today, it's Dane Brugler from the Athletic. Joining me, Bill Landis. Under the weather, but we're going to talk about the NFL draft, the first round that happened on Thursday night. Dane, you're an expert, bro. You're an Ohioan. Thank you so much for your time.

[Dane Brugler]

No pleasures of mine. It's. Last night was fun. First round of the draft. I'm excited for day two, day three, but that first round's always pretty exhilarating with the trade action at the top. You know, the only pick we knew was at number one, and the rest was kind of up in the air. And so it was fun to see it play out in real time.

[Doug Lemurice]

Yeah, it was. I mean, sometimes you feel like you have a real handle on it, like, exactly where guys are slotted. Bill and I did guesses on where all the Ohio State guys were going to go. Like, we missed. We were wrong on everybody. We didn't get anybody right where these Buckeyes were going to go. So I want to run through the four Ohio State guys in the first round. Obviously, if I think people know this, but you have this gigantic draft guide called the beast that people can get going into the draft. You do that every year. I find it to be, like, a valuable guide, even after the fact, even

[Dane Brugler]

after guys are drafted.

[Doug Lemurice]

What do you think about, you know, preparing for the NFL season? You're. You're the man over at the Athletic, but you also really know. You know everybody, but you really know Your Buckeyes.

[Dane Brugler]

Yeah.

[Doug Lemurice]

Let's start with Carnell Tate. If you were the GM of the Titans and all four Buckeyes were still there, which I think was kind of a surprise, which Buckeye would you have drafted for the Titans at number four?

[Dane Brugler]

I believe Arvella Reese is the best player in the draft. So I would have gone Arvell Reese. And it's a team that could use edge rushers. Robert Salah coming over as the head coach. We know he wants a stable of those guys just to let loose after the quarterback. And so we thought, okay, Orville Reese could go at number two. He doesn't. The jets go with David Bailey.

[Doug Lemurice]

Okay.

[Dane Brugler]

Number three becomes interesting because now.

[Doug Lemurice]

Yeah.

[Dane Brugler]

But hearing about the Saints wanting to move up, the Chiefs wanting to move up to get our Bell Reese. Cardinals decide to stick and pick. Take Jeremiah Love. All right, so now things get interesting at 4 because the Titans have an opportunity to get the best player, the best edge rusher in the draft and they opt for the offensive player, which it was surprising. I remember going back to last fall when, when like having these little fights on Twitter with Ohio State fans when I, like after watching that Texas game in the opener, I, I was pretty okay. Arval Reese is the best Ohio State prospect this year. And people were pretty adamant it was Caleb Downs, which I love Caleb Downs. I, I mean it's. Yeah, I, I almost felt guilty saying it wasn't Caleb Downs, it was Arval Reese. Turns out it was neither of them. In terms of who was the first Buckeye drafted, it was Colonel Tate. I totally understand why the Titans went that way though, because you made this investment last year in Cam Ward as your number one overall pick at quarterback. You need to do whatever you can to support that quarterback. And Cardinal Tate, I, I don't know if he'll ever make or a Pro Bowl. I don't know if he'll ever be a 1200 yard receiver. But I feel good about his floor. I feel good that he's going to be a pro because he's a three level threat. Especially with Cam Ward. And you think about how he wants to push the ball down the field. The verticality that a guy like Carnell Tate brings to your, your team, even though he's not a burner, he's not a 4:3 athlete, but that vertical ability that he has is something that can separate him. His tracking is unbelievable. I mean, I don't have to sell Ohio State fans obviously on those type of qualities, but being a three level threat, the. And we Know something about Cam Ward is he is not afraid to throw it at tight windows. And something about Tate that jumped out every tape you watched was how good he was in those contested situations. Zero drops on the year, just a very quarter friendly guy. So while I would have gone Arvell Reese and in the moment it was surprising just to see Carnell Tate be the first Ohio State player drafted. I certainly understand their thought process.

[Doug Lemurice]

Yeah, I think feels like Carnell is that deep threat, but not only that deep threat. Sometimes when you have those vertical guys it's like, well, you can run a go route down the field, but what else are you going to do? It does feel like Cornell can be like a number one. Right. Who can do this stuff over the middle, who can do some yards after the catch kind of thing. But the thing that's hard to, to wrap your head around is if Carnell Tate's the number four pick in the draft, what is Jeremiah Smith next year? Like the minus two pick in the draft? Like how do you, it's, it's crazy to me to think that Carnell Tate is the first receiver off the board is a top four pick. I, I looked it up last night. I think there have only been 10 receivers in the history of the NFL draft who have gone higher than number four. Like three guys at number one, three at number two. I think four at number three. That's how rare this Carnell Tate situation is. And then there's Jeremiah Smith next year. It's just, I, I, we don't have to do 45 minutes on Jeremiah Smith right now. But it gets your brain spinning a little, doesn't it? A little bit.

[Dane Brugler]

If Jeremiah Smith was in this draft, he'd be the easy number two pick. I think the Raiders would have to take Mendoza, you have to take the quarterback. Jeremiah Smith would easily go number two in this class. Not even, I don't even think the jets it would be much of a question for them. He's a special, special player. And the, the day after the draft I will have or a couple of days after the draft off a 2027 mock and no mystery, but Smith will be very high on that one. And it's hard to watch him and not think of like a Larry Fitzgerald type of player because it's the full package, it's the size, it's the strength, it's the, the catch point skills, it's the ability after the catch. A very detailed player, but also a very freakish player. And so just a different, different type of, of talent that Just doesn't come around very often. And so he will be, you know, I think by the time we get to the draft next year. It might be Arch Manning in terms of who's the best player in the draft, but Jeremiah Smith will certainly have a strong, strong case for why he should be the first non quarterback drafted next next year's class.

[Doug Lemurice]

All right, number five, R.V. reese to the Giants. You had Arvell Reese as the number one overall player in the Beast on your board. Just pure traits and football ability. Reese's number one.

[Dane Brugler]

Yeah. And so did the Giants. The Giants had him as number one too. And I think at number five they were kind of like, okay, I mean edge rusher. If you look at the top needs on our team, edge rusher is not really near the top at all. But we can't pass on this player, somebody that they brought him to the facilities. They were at the Ohio State pro day. They did a lot of work on multiple Ohio State defensive guys. Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles, Arvo Reese. They did all the work on all of them. And I think because NFL teams go through all these different scenarios, you know, they do mock drafts just like, just like we do. And I think if they did 50 mock drafts, how many of those had Reese being there at number five? Maybe three or four. I. Not many. I think he was very, very much expected to be a top four pick. So I think when he fell in their laps, it kind of became a no brainer and now it'll be interesting. Do the Giants entertain trade offers for Kayvon Thibodeau? Do they start him, start Arvel Reese as a true off ball linebacker and then put together these different pressure packages on passing downs where you let him tee off against a quarterback? I'm just, I'm. All of a sudden the Giants are a lot more interesting to watch on defense. Yeah.

[Doug Lemurice]

Do you think did The jets at 2 taking David Bailey instead of Arvel Reese, is that a mistake or will they rue the day or is it just a choice where maybe they went with the guy who has some more pass rush snaps? Arvell Reese maybe is a little more of a project or is this. I, I know you had Reese to, to the jets at number two for a long time. Like is it almost indefensible in your mind that the jets didn't take Arbel Reese?

[Dane Brugler]

No, I wouldn't go that far because I do think it comes down to this is a coaching staff that is coaching for their lives right now. They don't. I, I think that really was A differentiating factor for them. Bailey is much more of a player that you feel like plug and play. He led the nation in sacks last year. Fourteen and a half led the nation and pass rush percentage. So he is more ready to go out of the box. There's less projection with him. He's not a perfect prospect by any means. He's not a can't miss guy. You know, he's not on the level of. I don't even think he's on the level of Abdul Carter last year in terms of just what he brings on the field. But he's still a good player who I maybe it won't. He won't be defensive rookie of the year, but it's hard to seeing see him not having an impact in a positive way for a team that vastly needs it right away. So I won't. Yeah, it's. It's not a miscarriage of justice that Arval Reese didn't go at number two. So certainly understand the thought process there. It's just not what I would have done.

[Doug Lemurice]

Do you think again, Orville Reese going into the situation with the Giants where they have Abdul Carter, where they have Kaybon Thibodeau, where they have Brian Burns. Like in an ideal situation would Arvel Reese have gone to a team that just made him an edge rusher and that's it. It's nice that you played linebacker in college, but that's not what you're doing here. You're an edge guy. Or could this be a good situation where if they maybe play him at linebacker and then as you said, create presser pressure packages where he is up on the line of scrimmage but maybe they work him in more slowly with his pass rush skills. Could that actually be better for him or would have been like no, just go be an edge guy.

[Dane Brugler]

I think that's the beauty of Arvl Reese because he can be whatever you want him to be. He's a chameleon, right? I mean if you want him to be a full time edge player, I have no doubt he could do it. Still 20 years old. So I think you can anticipate he could be. He's 240 right now, could be 245 as a rookie, eventually get to 250. I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility. A lot of times when you have these players that are seen as the hybrid guys and you worry about them moving to more of a full time edge position because it's just, it's hard to play the run, it's hard to take on blocks. I have no questions about Arvo Reese and his violence at the point of attack. The way that he can take on blocks, set an edge and then go make plays, it just, it be. It comes very natural for him. He is a special athlete. And so the beauty of Arvo Reese, the reason he was my number one, is he can be whatever you want him to be. Full time edge. I would love to see it. I think he could absolutely thrive in that role if he goes to a situation and, and I'm, I'm interested to see how his situation and role will evolve throughout the season as the Giants kind of feel figure out, okay, what makes the most sense. But he's. If you want him as a stacked player and somebody that you can move around and as an opposing offense, that's you. You want to create doubt in the minds of opposing quarterbacks. And having Abdul Carter and Brian Burns teeing off on the edges and then, oh, look, there's Arvel Reese kind of inching towards the A gap. Like, oh, is he coming, is he not? And then he drops and then he covers in the flat. I mean, just doing all these different things. Arvo Reese is only limited by the creativity of your defensive coordinator. And so I'm very excited to see how they use him in all these different roles that he can play. Okay.

[Doug Lemurice]

Sonny Styles at 7 to the Washington commanders. Again, I think it seemed like there were people who maybe thought four to Tennessee would be a possible spot for him. I, I think you and I maybe had the same thing. You and I, like, we're draft equivalents here. It's like I ripped something off. We talk. We talk. I thought someone moving up to the brown spot at 6 to maybe try to get Sunny Styles could make sense. Sunny Styles at 7. The fit in Washington in the end, I think Dan Quinn was at Ohio State's pro day. It felt like they were hanging out. In the end, it feels like Sonny Styles went to a good spot with Washington. Is that how it feels to you?

[Dane Brugler]

No doubt.

[Steve Smith]

And.

[Dane Brugler]

And this is a fit for both sides because commanders just drastically needed upgrades on the defensive side of the ball, and they addressed some of that in free agency. But it was interesting because I thought throughout the process, I heard mostly, hey, they didn't want to get Jaden Daniel's help. They want to get more explosive on offense. And so if Jeremiah Love is still available, I think that would have been the pick. If Carnell Tate was still on the board, then it gets Interesting which way they would have went between Tate and Sunny Styles, but with those two guys off the board, it made things easier. And Sunny Styles was, I, I think very high on their board. Somebody that's going to come in can wear the green dot, can be a. And Adam Peters, the. The general manager is someone that he pays attention to. Okay, was he a captain? How many years as a starter? Like the intangibles matter. And I mean, you know Sonny Styles, he just oozes intangibles as a person, as a leader, as somebody that is going to make your organization better, just as a human being and somebody that on the field drastically upgrade. It's a need area for you. So this, this made too much sense. If I. So in my final mock draft, I ended up going Tate to the commanders, but if Tate was off the board, then Sunny Styles was absolutely the pick and so not surprised that it played out that way.

[IPVanish Spokesperson]

We've all been there. You're away for the weekend. The big game is on, and you realize you're restricted from watching. Or maybe you're trying to check the latest lines on your betting app, but your local network is blocking the site. These are the ultimate unforced errors. You can prevent this from happening to you with IPVanish. IPVanish is the powerhouse VPN designed to keep you in the game no matter where you are. IPVanish helps you stay connected to your favorite team and streaming services while you travel. But it's not just about watching the game for the betters out there. IPVanish provides an extra layer of security and privacy that helps you access your account safely on public Wi Fi. Plus, IPVanish is lightning fast, so you won't have to worry about lag during those crucial live betting moments. Right now, get a massive [e-mail] that's IP V-A N-I S H.com to get started today, secure your play and go to IPVanish.com Big thanks to our sponsor,

[Doug Lemurice]

BetterHelp, for partnering with us for this

[BetterHelp Spokesperson]

important conversation about mental health.

[Steve Smith]

This is Steve Smith here, former NFL wide receiver and host of the 89 show on YouTube. So having a counselor and working with BetterHelp, that gives you an opportunity to really start to unpack. But people don't understand when you unpack attack things, you also open up a box that you're not always sure what's inside. So I think that's why seeing a professional is extremely important. If you need someone to open up to visit betterhelp. That's better h e l p.com89 to get started.

[Doug Lemurice]

Okay, when you think about positional value in the NFL right now, like where, where would you put like a linebacker like Sonny Styles? Because one of the conversations Bill and I were having was okay, like it's maybe at a position like safety with downs or, or middle linebacker like Sonny Styles. Like if they're good, maybe that's one of those things. But if you think you're getting an all pro caliber guy, right like the top end of the comparison does that is, is a, is a truly great linebacker who wears the green dot is the quarterback of your defense. How high is that positional value or is it still just realistically, you know what edge, rusher, quarterback, corner, those kind of things are always going to matter more.

[Dane Brugler]

I think it depends on what type of linebacker are you because I think with Sonny he is somebody what separates Sonny Styles is his sub value, sub downs what he can bring to because he is his ability to match up man to man. He's comfortable rushing from different alignments. He has a good feel just as a true stacked backer. So the I, I think if I had one nitpick with Sonny is I wanted to see him make more plays and coverage. Yeah I want to go get, I want him to go get me the ball. Like he just didn't do that consistently enough for a linebacker that might take top 10 but he's a former safety and it's still kind of mind blowing when you remember he's a former safety and it's six five, £240 like this is. It's kind of crazy but the jump he took from the 2024 tape because I feel like in 2024 he was still the traitsy toolsy up and comer could have went to the draft, thought about it probably would have been a second round pick as a traits based selection comes back for a senior year and the development that he made between the 2024 tape and the 2025 tape was very impressive. I mean this is a player that made a big jump with just playing the position, understanding how to read his keys and the decisiveness of and it comes from experience and tape study and that's something that just, it takes a little bit of time and so I think the coverage stuff will continue to evolve. So yeah, it's an interesting discussion especially with this draft class and when you talk about positional value because we had a running back go top three the Caleb Downs discussion. He's one of the best players in this draft but would he go top 10. And then of course with Sonny, who is. Is a linebacker. And not every team's gonna be comfortable drafting a position like that in top 10. But for the commanders, it makes sense. And with Sunny, the like I said, the sub down value is elite and everything else that you get with him, it's not just the physical traits. It's not just. It's not just one thing with him. It really is the total package.

[Doug Lemurice]

Okay, Caleb downs 11 to the Dallas Cowboys. They trade up one spot to get him there. As you watch the draft unfold, were you surprised at any team that you thought, okay, this is where I think Downs is going to go. Oh, no, they didn't take him. Oh, now I think this is where Downs is going to go. Oh, they didn't take him. Or did in the end, the way the draft unfolded, did 11 make sense to you?

[Dane Brugler]

Yeah, I thought 12 was his floor to the Cowboys. And so they ended up moving up one spot to make sure they got him. You know, doing all these different scenarios with mock drafts, I thought Caleb could have gone as high as five to the Giants. And I mean, who knows if Arvo Reese isn't there, if Arville Reese goes four, maybe Caleb Downs does go five to the Giants and we'll never know. But after he gets past five, then it's like, okay, it's realistic that he could be on the board for the Cowboys there. And that's like I said, yeah, they moved up one spot to make sure it happened. I talking to the Cowboys, some of my Cowboys sources, just throughout the process, they just adored Caleb Downs because of. And I heard this from multiple teams. Just his superpower is how brilliant he is in terms of playing the position at a high level and being able to see the entire chessboard. You know, and this is something that showed up in meetings where he. He speaks the language with coaches schematically and he would flat out tell coaches, okay, this is exactly what you do. I'm going to explain your defense here in five minutes. I'm going to tell you exactly what, how I can make it even better. And he just blew away teams in the interview process with that. And so I think the Cowboys, this was a home run situation for them. There were a little bit of, you know, some worry that they might get, you know, I wouldn't have Sunny Styles on the board, wouldn't have Caleb Downs on the board. They kind of get wiped out with those tier one options. And it didn't work out that way if they. Caleb Downs landed in their Lap or give them credit. They went up and got them one spot. Downs is some, I think we see with. It's more a product of the safety position. You know, we just talked about it with the positional value. Downs is it, in my opinion, top five player in this draft. But he falls to 11 because of safety Dylan Thienaman from Oregon. He's one of the top 20 players in this draft. He falls to 25 because again, safety Emmanuel McNeil Warren from Toledo is one of the top 32 players in this draft, but he didn't go in the first round last night because of safety. So I do think that is a common theme we saw throughout the first round. But just talking to some of my cowboy sources this morning, they were over the moon, just thrilled, so excited about what Downs is going to bring because he can be a nickel on one play, play a robber on another. All the different disguises that they would show in that Matt Patricia defense this year, that the traps and its own coverages, I mean, it really was. Caleb Downs was the skeleton key that unlocked everything for them. And so I. The chance to bring that to an NFL field is. Is something that's gonna be fun to watch.

[Doug Lemurice]

Now that we see how it unfolded. The Bengals trading the number 10 pick for Dexter Lawrence, now that they could have taken Caleb Downs with that pick. I know we have. I've talked to some Bengals fans who are like that. That's before the trade. I think that would have been the ideal scenario for some Bengals fans. Let's get Caleb Downs. Is that, Is that a still good trade? Because I know maybe there was people feeling like, well, you know, the Bengals are feeling like maybe like a guy worthy of the number 10 pick won't be there. If they knew they could get Caleb Downs, would they still make the Lawrence trade? Right.

[Dane Brugler]

I think so. Only because I know they were desperate for defensive tackle help. Like, desperate. And this is just a bad defensive tackle class. Yeah. Relatively speaking. You know, there just wasn't a defensive tackle that was a. A lock top 25 pick in this class. It's not. It's a thin group. So I, I think they looked at it more. More along those lines as opposed to, we're worried we might get wiped out. Let's go upgrade our defensive tackle spot in a different way.

[Doug Lemurice]

Okay, before I let you go, in all the, the analysis you do, in all the. The tape breakdowns that you do, do you have any opinion on Julian saying as a potential draft prospect a year from now yet? I. I know that's not what your priority was when you were watching Ohio State, but I'm just. Do you have any, any first reactions to Julian saying when it comes to his NFL pedigree?

[Dane Brugler]

I, I'm very eager to see him in year two because I think that's where you can really see a jump. I, I think was saying, like, clearly he's an accurate quarterback. Clearly he processes well. But I think we also saw later in the year how the offense was kind of held back a little bit. And not saying that's all on the quarterback by any means, but you know, you score 10 points in the Big Ten championship game, you know, you, you hold Indiana to 13 points, you expect to. And so there were several reasons why they didn't win that game, but you do expect more out of the quarterback in some of those situations. And then, you know, against Miami, when you have a defensive line that can get after you, there were just too many times where it felt like he did. Did not have the pocket mobility to evade. He looked small at times. He wasn't able to, you know, step up, find those extra half beats to keep his eyes down the field and make the throw. And so I'm very eager to see him in year two to see if he can build off of that and become better, which a lot of quarterbacks do. I mean, it's. A quarterback is a position where you just, you build on past mistakes and you get better. And so I can't wait to see what it looks like. Obviously it helps that he has the receivers that he does. And I think the offensive line, there's a veteran element to that group this year as opposed to last year. And so I'm, I'm excited to see him. I, I don't think he'll be in my first round, 2027, first round mock at this stage, but obviously you're keeping an open mind to all these quarterbacks because they're going to be drafted based off of the 2027 tape, not the 2026 or the 2026 tape, not the 2025 tape. So what saying does this upcoming season will ultimately dictate? Does he leave for the NFL after this year? Is he looked at as a top 50 pick? So there's a lot of kind of wait and see with Julian saying, Dane

[Doug Lemurice]

Brugler, as good as it gets in the NFL draft industry. When would you expect this 2027 mock draft on the athletic to drop? I mean, it's one of those things, you know, people can't get enough of this stuff. And I Think sometimes people go back and be like, oh man, look at all this stuff that's wrong. And I go back and say like, man, look, there's like 10 or 12 or 14 or 16 guys that somebody had in the first round. I think it is a great guide and you guys do a great job with that stuff. When can we look for it, you think?

[Dane Brugler]

Yeah, it'll be up on Tuesday. And so I mean it's, it's a watch list basically, right? Like 32 names. Like these are the guys that. And I had an hour long conversation with, with a team this morning talking 20, 27 guys. So just bouncing names off each other and you know, it's, it's really meant to be a sneak peek in next year. And I mean, Fernando Mendoza was in my way too early mock draft at this time last year. So sometimes, you know, we're kind of on the right track and in terms of what direction we're headed.

[Doug Lemurice]

Dane Brugler finds his work at the Athletic. He's how many years doing draft stuff? Daniel, how many years? 20 years? 15 years?

[Dane Brugler]

Yeah, it's, it's. If we include, if we say I started my freshman year dorm room at Mount Union, which is kind of when I did. It's right around 21 years. So it's, it's been a minute.

[Doug Lemurice]

Look at that, look at that. Look how far you've come. My friend Dane Brugler, thank you so much for your time and keep grinding, we know you will, and then take some time off when this draft's over, man.

[Dane Brugler]

All right. Anytime. Thanks, Doug.

[Doug Lemurice]

So thanks to Dane Brugler for his time. Sorry my audio was a little bit goofy there. A couple more things we want to talk about before we get out of here. The Big Ten won the first round of the draft compared to the SEC on Thursday night for the first time since 2006. This is something that I track and it is something that, that matters to me in the discussion around college football because this is the last domino to fall. This is the last bast of perceived SEC superiority because whenever you had the last SEC defenders after the Big Ten is one three straight national titles with Michigan, Ohio State and Indiana. Once the SEC has given up the argument about the top of conferences and that the top of the Big Ten is, is better than the top of the sec. Now the SEC is trying to rely on a depth argument and I think the middle of the Big Ten is actually going to be as good as the middle of the SEC or maybe even better this year. I think people Will cat on that. This is the thing they would say. It's like, oh, who's the best coverage? Well, NFL general managers. Well, maybe we should listen to them. Their jobs are on the line. And it's like, okay, that's been true. It's not true now. 10 to 7 Big Ten, SEC first round picks. The SEC barely beat the ACC in the Big 12. They had six each. Notre Dame had two. If you want to lump in Notre dame with the ACC, then the ACC had more than the SEC. First time since 2006 the Big Ten had more than the SEC. It was 8 to 4 in 2006. In the 19 years between 2007 and 2025, the SEC had a 194 to 102 advantage in first round picks over the Big Ten. That's stark. And when you break down some of the year by year things, 2013, the SEC had a 12 to 1 advantage over the Big Ten in first round picks. Think of that one first round pick for the Big Ten in 2013. You can look at 2020, it was 15 to 5. 2024, it was 11 to 7. 2014, it was 11 to 4. This is just like, this is the thing. There was one year in 2023 where it was tied. It was nine to nine. The SEC between 202007 and 2025 had 11 years of double digit first round picks. The Big Ten had one last year. So the Big Ten had 11 first round picks in 2025. Actually went down 1 10. This year. The SEC fell off a cliff. The SEC had 15 first round picks. Last year. The SEC had seven. This year the SEC. That's the fewest for the SEC since 2015 when it was seven to three. SEC versus Big Ten. So this is not to say that the Big Ten is going to win every national championship from now on just because they've won three straight. It is not to say the Big Ten is now going to dominate the first round of the NFL draft compared to the sec. It is to say this gigantic run of SEC draft dominance, just like the run of SEC on field championship dominance is dead. It's absolutely, positively dead. And if this was the last thing. So we've got like, we've got the portal knife plunged in the chest of the SEC corpse. We've got the nil knife. We've got a bullet hole right through the forehead. With the retirement of Nick Saban and Greg Sankey is like standing over the body saying like get up, get up, you're fine. It's not Fine, it's over. And I like this as the final domino because it is this the thing of like, well, who cares if you follow college football? You don't follow college football for it to be just a feeder system for the NFL. You follow it because you love the games on Saturdays. So the SEC already has, like, moved away in the discussion of superiority. They've moved away from what actually matters, which is Saturdays, which is playoff, which is championships. And they've moved to like, talent because actually talent often is perception of talent. And now that's gone. So the SEC on, on Friday night is going to have more picks in the second round than the Big Ten, but we're talking about elite players at the top of the draft. And you think about the seven first round SEC draft picks. The first pick for the SEC is monster. We're going to do this here, by the way. You guys know we do this, right? We're actually trying to figure out in our company of maybe having like a separate feed or something where we talk about Big Ten football, we talk about northern college football, we talk about national college football from a Big Ten perspective. We do it. We want to do it here on the Bill and Doug Show. We want to do it even more. And we might break off a show for it. So, like, we, Bill and I have done that before. We would like to get back into that a little bit more. Stay tuned. Stay locked into the Bill of Doug show for this stuff because, you know, I get fired up. We love covering Ohio State football. You know, I get fired up about this. First pick for the SEC on, on Thursday night was Mansour Delane, who played three years at Virginia Tech and then went to LSU for one year to lose and his coach to get fired.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug Lemurice]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Liberty.

[BetterHelp Spokesperson]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to light, lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-granger. Visit granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Doug Lemurice]

So you think about, like, okay, well, Indiana, Fernando Mendoza, they got a Heisman out of and a number one overall pick for a guy who was raised at Cal, who, who played his career at Cal, played one year at Indiana. But that was a relationship they both benefited from. Fernando Mendoza elevated Indiana and Indiana gave opportunity, an opportunity Fernando Mendoza to show how good he was and become the number one pick in the draft. Monsor Delane, like, went to lsu. They're like glomming on to him of like, hey, look, it's our first round pick. And it's like, what did he get out of it? He got to go and watch Brian Kelly lose his job. He got to go and like, watches like Lane Kiffin, like, left another team in the playoff to go coach lsu. So like, that's not the same thing. So it's like, hey, congratulations. So without him, they don't have a top 10 pick. So then you think about Ty Simpson and Kaden Proctor at the Alabama picks. Guess what? Recruited by Nick Saban and they're still not over the loss of Nick Saban. The Nick Saban retired. Casey Concepcion, first SEC receiver off the board from North Carolina State, one year at Texas A M, like, to get what, a first round loss in the playoff? Like, again, this is the only guys, the old, like the, the guys. The only guy who went the first round for the SEC who was recruited to that school by the coach who's still there was Monroe Freeling, the tackle for Georgia because Keldrick Falk at Auburn, his coach got fired too. So, like, this is where the SEC is. There's instability, there's uncertainty. And talent acquisition is the name of the game. And the edge they had for 20 years in talent acquisition is no longer there because of nil because of paying players within the rules. And the portal. And like, also you talk about the portals like, well, like Alabama recruited and had Caleb Downs for a year and the Portal, after Saban retired, helped Ohio State get Caleb Downs. That wouldn't have happened before, but also that the SEC is using it. So it's not just like, it's not that the, the portal is killing the sec. It's like they're getting in and out. So they wouldn't have, they might have Caleb Downs, they wouldn't have Casey Concepcion and Monsoon Delay. So and then. But you think about The Big Ten you think about. Yeah. Fernando Mendoza, transfer for Indiana. But Omar Cooper, homegrown developed player by the Indiana Hoosiers. First round pick, Caleb Downs, transfer for Ohio State. Yes. Arvell Reese, Carnell Tate and Sunny Stiles, Homegrown developed players by Ohio State. Dylan Thieman, Oregon. Yes. A transfer from a Big Ten school, Purdue to Oregon. But Oregon also developed Kenyan Sadiq, first round tight end, developed like recruited, developed by. By Oregon. Right. So this where we are in, in this modern era with the sec. It's about recruitment, development, retention. That's all for your guys. And then there's the portal. And I don't think there's anything that the SEC does better than the Big Ten right now. I don't think they recruit better. I think that's probably. Even if the SEC has an edge, it's slight. I don't think they develop better. I think the Big Ten develop. I don't think they retain better. And then the portal, I think the Big Ten is better at that. So in the middle of the season, in 2026, because I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Not because that it's a bit, but because we're on to something here and it's going to play out again. When I'm yelling at the SEC is mid, please listen because now this is telling us that too. So this does not mean the SEC is never going to win a national championship. That does not mean the Big Ten is going to beat the SEC in the first round for years to come. It just means the edge for the SEC is gone. The 20 year edge again. So Stark 194 to 102 first round picks, 19 years, 2007 to 2025. That's dead. That's dead. That's 19 years. And that's a 92 pick advantage. Right? Like that's, that's a huge edge. Let's do a little math here. 19 years, 92 more picks divided by 19 years. That's an average of five picks more per year. That's over the final domino to fall. We want to do this more. We want you guys to come find us to talk about Ohio State football. That is still what this channel is all about. The Bill and Doug Show. We appreciate Dane Brugler sharing all that great knowledge about Ohio State football players. We're going to continue that through the off season. Monday on around the Shoe, we're going to look ahead a little bit to the 2027 NFL Draft and what Ohio State might look like in that draft, but we also want to have this big 10 sec conversation, this northern southern college football conversation. So stay tuned here to the Bill and Doug Show. We'll keep you updated. We'll do it here from time to time in the off season, but we also might start doing even more of it. So thanks again to Dane Brugler. Thanks to you guys for being here. Bill Landis under the weather. He'll get back healthy and be back soon. We'll talk to you guys on Monday. For now, I'm Doug Lemurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Doug Lemurice]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Sidekick]

Liberty, Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Grainger Spokesperson]

When you manage procurement for multiple facilities, every order matters. But when it's for a hospital system, they matter even more. Grainger gets it and knows there's no time for managing multiple suppliers and no room for shipping delays. That's why Grainger offers millions of products in fast, dependable delivery so you can keep your facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.